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OLD SCHOOL WRESTLING CLIPS v. Hahn - Ep5 - Archaic Wrestling
87 Plays1 year ago
We host Old School Wrestling Clips (Mike) from Twitter! We talk old wrestling footage, music, and learn more about his beef with Damion Hahn...
OLD SCHOOL WRESTLING CLIPS - @gut_bench69 on Twitter
Music by Josh Kasen
Twitter @ArchaicWrestle
archaicwrestling@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Pond Watch Segment
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome, welcome everybody. This is Evan with archaic wrestling once again, joined as always by Sasha. Sasha, welcome to another edition and a second episode of pond watch. We need to know what's going on with the pond. First of all, Sasha, I got half a ton of stones to put around it right now. It's just a liner just comes up out of the whole liner. I got a bunch.
00:00:48
Speaker
Heavy rocks put around it, make it look nice and natural like a real pond. Excellent, excellent. Any wildlife sightings yet? Just a bunch of bugs. Oh, I saw weird. I saw like a very scary looking spider hanging out. It sounds like you're making a paradise, Sasha. Real oasis in San Francisco. Really terrifying looking spider on one of the plants. Awesome.
00:01:16
Speaker
Well, we're doing a fun little episode today.
Guest Mike Joins to Discuss Wrestling History
00:01:21
Speaker
I think it's gonna be a little bit different We're not gonna focus too much on wrestling history, but we are gonna it is gonna be a something that comes up here and there And we're joined by a special guest today You will know this person in the depths of wrestling Twitter Known as old-school wrestling clips or at gut benches Mike is joining us today and welcome Mike. How you doing?
00:01:45
Speaker
What's up, baby boys? Doing really good. Enjoying the little heat wave in LA. Was gonna try to do this podcast outside and get a tan at the same time. But my wifi did not allow that to happen. So I am stuck grilling myself in my own living room with no air conditioning. But yeah, happy to be here nonetheless. Did not eat breakfast or lunch.
00:02:14
Speaker
to purposely, uh, make my wrestling podcast skills better. Uh, so I'm cutting weight right now. Um, yeah, so that's this morning. I'm, I'm super hungry, but you know, you gotta love the grind. You gotta have the hunger. You gotta have the hunger. I can't come in here with a full fucking stomach. I won't be hungry for knowledge, hungry for conversation, hungry for, you know,
00:02:43
Speaker
Damien Hahn and setting that record straight. But here I am nonetheless. Awesome. Speaking of hunger, how are the mats today,
Sasha's Training Focus Shift
00:02:55
Speaker
Sasha? You had some jujitsu practice. Did you tear it up? No. I'm not letting myself wrestle this July. Oh. I was stagnating. Every round, I was looking the same.
00:03:12
Speaker
I feel like I've got as far as I could with just only ever be on top and just do arm locks. Oh, okay. So it's all a guard this month, so I'm getting squished. And this is something you put on yourself. I think I'm getting better. Yeah, I decided this. Okay. Gotcha. Okay, so what are you focusing on from bottom then? General, just the main concepts of Jujitsu.
00:03:42
Speaker
The frames, you know, you're on the ground. You have your your elbow frames, your knee frames to not get squished. You have your shrimp. All things that I had just not done for like the eight months I've been doing it, even though they're fairly fundamental, because I've just been wrestling. I'm just mixing it up. Yeah, I'm sure your partners are appreciating this. Yeah, they're liking it. But some of them, I'm getting there. I'm going to then
00:04:12
Speaker
I'm learning some of this guard stuff. It's gonna get you more emotionally powerful, I think, to not use some wrestling and get beat up a little bit. Once you're done with this month, you'll be a brand new man. Yeah, it's like training in extra gravity. It's like training on Jupiter. I'm gonna come back and blast a wall. Exactly, exactly. All right, well, we'll look forward to that.
Importance of Studying Old Wrestling Footage
00:04:38
Speaker
Um, Mike, uh, you know, we, we wanted to have you on, I think, uh, I think something that, uh, comes up a lot, just not just in wrestling, but in sports, right. We, uh, we are trying to always assess like how good, uh, uh, wrestlers are in comparison to one another. Right. And we're always like talking about like, Oh, you know,
00:04:58
Speaker
So-and-so is the great greatest ever and then you know, there's always other people saying like hey We got some like recency bias going on right or we or there's people that we don't have video of from back in the day That you've never seen wrestle. We don't really know what it means that that person was a you know, a national champion, right? so I think like when I get to watch your your videos that you post when you post the clips of different wrestlers like that I Really didn't grow up watching sometimes, you know
00:05:26
Speaker
I really get a lot out of it, but want to know what do you get out of it? You know, what made you want to start doing that? Like, why is, why is that a gimmick you, you wanted to take on? Yeah, well, a couple of things. So it kind of started with heavyweight nation. Uh, he's got an Instagram page that's got a ton of cloud. Um, and I'm happy for him. It's good for the sport. He's got a ton of videos that go viral, but.
00:05:55
Speaker
for a good like month that dude was posting like the same like hot wrestling clips like a lot of dake bombs and like David Taylor stuff the same techniques the same moves the same clips and I was just like damn like I can't not go on Instagram without seeing this freaking Kyle dake dake bombs and I was like that's kind of that's kind of silly
00:06:24
Speaker
And then, um, you know, just reading through comments and stuff, you know, people talking about contemporary wrestlers and they're like, this guy's the best. Like, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, re recency bias sort of thing. And I was like, damn, if only like these kids knew about people from the nineties, people from the eighties, people from the early two thousands, um,
00:06:47
Speaker
I think that would be really cool. And there's so much to learn because, um, you know, obviously I'm not an active wrestler anymore, but I was, um, obsessed with film and obsessed with studying film. And, um, I kind of had this theory, me and my younger brother, he was a wrestler too. We were both not very good, but we tried very hard. But we had this theory because we were, we were at the state, the New York state tournament.
00:07:14
Speaker
This is probably in like 2011 or 12. And, uh, we heard these kids in the stands while Palacio was whistling Dylan Palacio from Cornell. Um, yeah, two time all American or something like that. And he was really funky and he used a lot of these like Euro techniques from a two on one, which were really impressive. And, um, I remember hearing some kids in the stands be like.
00:07:40
Speaker
How does Palacio do that? And someone like people would respond all the time. They're like, it's just cause he's Palacio. That's why. And like me and my brother, his name's Brandon. We were like, that's so dumb. Like he's doing something right. So we had this idea, this theory. We were like, if we can hit this low single exactly like John Smith, like picture perfect, you know, down to the smallest, smallest details.
00:08:08
Speaker
We're as good as John Smith for that split second. And it's true and it's undeniable and I will die on that hill. Now granted, can you wrestle like John Smith for six minutes or seven minutes? That's probably not true, but you can, you know, if you hit their techniques exactly how they can, you could kind of, you know, be as good as them or be really, really, really good in those glimpses.
00:08:36
Speaker
And the more footage you watch and the more techniques you pick up and really, really, really study them, you could really improve your game. And if you got a whole hodgepodge of six or seven different techniques that you've sort of studied in that regard and you break them down, we kind of believe that that would make a pretty damn good wrestler. So yeah, that's where my obsession with film
00:09:05
Speaker
kind of started and sort of why I started the page was just to expose people to stuff that's kind of been wrestlers collecting dust over the years. Sasha, did you watch a lot of films, Sasha, when you were training?
Evolution of Access to Wrestling Footage
00:09:28
Speaker
Not as much as I would have liked. In high school especially, back when, there was like a time when you could
00:09:35
Speaker
You could go on Flow, you know, and you could like go on the front page and there'd be like some actual shit you could check out. It would like make sense. It would be like, there's one video at the top. It's like scramble of the week or whatever. And you could go down and there'd be some highlights. There'd be matches from the duels you could watch. The page would make sense. Nowadays, it's just, it's fucking incomprehensible. I don't know what the fuck is going on at that website anymore. It's really difficult to navigate, especially like I try to watch
00:10:06
Speaker
I try to watch on my Roku TV on like this. Oh, you can't watch shit on the TV. It's so bad, man. The app is fucking horrible. It's like the featured matches. That's it. Whenever you search stuff, it's just like, I remember trying to find, I think it was like World Team Trial Highlights or something from this year's
00:10:28
Speaker
uh, world team trial highlights. And I'm like putting in the search, like world team trial highlights. And it's like 2013 world team trial highlights or like whatever their, whatever match I was trying to find, right. I'd put in Seth gross and it brings me up like a college match from five years ago or something like that. What is like the algorithm with this thing? It's.
00:10:50
Speaker
It's confusing. Yeah. I agree. I think the old flow, um, you know, on the internet browser was, was pretty legit and very, um, very user friendly. I can watch some of those. Okay. And then we can also, um, there was, I think it was junior scene. It was like senior year of high school. Uh, our coach got in his mind that he was going to teach us like, uh, Gene Mills top half series.
00:11:19
Speaker
Nice. So I went, this is like my, this is my biggest experience with old school clips is that, uh, I went online and like, if you go on YouTube, you can find a lot of Gene Mills stuff. The best thing is that you can find his, um, you can find it's like in black and white. Gene Mills, uh, high school, it was junior or senior year of high school, his New Jersey state championship match.
00:11:48
Speaker
And that's actually a pretty interesting historical artifact because you can tell that he's creating this new technique in high school and the commentators are watching him do his half-series.
00:12:04
Speaker
And both the commentators are like, yeah, that's, he's not supposed to be doing it like that. That's what they, they, they, they, everyone says you're not supposed to do it from your, do the half from your feet. You gotta be on the mat, but he can, I don't know. He's crazy. He's doing it. So that was actually a pretty interesting, pretty interesting find. You know, I feel like that's always a good sign. If somebody's winning and the commentators or the community behind it are,
00:12:32
Speaker
talking trash on their new stuff. It's just like, you don't, you don't get it. Like you think it's junk or you think it's just working with this person for some reason, but it's just like, those are legitimate techniques that can be learned.
Modern Techniques and Online Learning
00:12:46
Speaker
And, you know, I guess it was, I had a similar experience with like, I hate to bring up, uh, ask grin, but, um,
00:12:54
Speaker
You know, when funk came about, like traditionalists were just like, this is whack. This is stupid. You're rolling across your own back. Like why on earth would you do that? And now you can't see a high level college or high level high school match with people not rolling on their back. And, you know, it's, they're necessary techniques, you know, as, as opposed to, I think at the time that Ascomer is kind of getting big, it was like, um, you can kind of get away with, you know, just a very vanilla standard kind of match, but
00:13:25
Speaker
You have to know those balls left today or you will be good. That's something that I really noticed. Like what you just said, like you can kind of get away with more vanilla techniques. And like when I watch footage from like the nineties, that's what I feel like I'm often seeing. Um, not like, you know, not that that's comprehensively what it looks like in the nineties, but I do see a lot more, uh, guys wrestling the way like I used to wrestle like, you know, early high school, right? And just like very, just like,
00:13:52
Speaker
Locked in dialed in you know kind of you know not doing a lot of movement Not willing to get into scrambles as much, but there was still plenty of it But I do feel like there was less than what I was seeing and that like my I went to high school right as YouTube was first starting out so And you know there was no flow at the time so any sort of Footage that I was going to get of other wrestlers or great wrestlers to watch was going to come from
00:14:21
Speaker
my coach having an old VHS or like, you know, they'd burn to a DVD or whatever. And definitely watch that same video of Gene Mills on my own on the while I'm on the elliptical. Definitely have a lot of memories of doing that sort of thing. But yeah, that's how we would how we would usually consume those those old films. It would be you had to like know someone that just like had it on tape or like bought one of those championship tapes. I think that's what they were.
00:14:49
Speaker
called the the old championship tapes. Is that what they were? I don't remember what the company was. The ones that would like they would show like highlights of like Zeke Jones from like one tournament. Yeah. And it would be like all like one of those. That was the rule. Yeah. Yeah. I had a coach like that too. Or my high school coach Hamilton not that anybody would know him.
00:15:13
Speaker
But he had this vault. I always make this joke about the vaults, but there was literally a vault in my high school, and there were just stacks on stacks of VHS tapes. And it was so cool, because he would let me borrow them, and I'd be like, who's John Smith? Who's Zeke Jones? Who's Cale Sanderson? Or 1993 NCAA finals or something like that. And I'd have no idea what I'm about to get into. And that was kind of like,
00:15:42
Speaker
You know, they were very, what's the word, like, um, just super impactful. It's like go to a record store and getting a record and not knowing who the band is, but you think the album cover looks cool and then you take it home and it's like amazing. You're like, Oh my God. And they changed your life. It was like same thing. I mean, I, I think I, I borrowed that, um, the how low can you go? John Smith low single series.
00:16:07
Speaker
Um, when I was like eighth or ninth grade and I'm like, damn, like this rules, who is this dude? I didn't even know who he was. I had absolutely no idea. And I'm just like, all right, this guy looks like a wrestler. He looks, you know, like some psychotic, like cauliflower ear, like Midwest dude. Um, but yeah, no, I totally agree. One thing that I, uh, I noticed that.
00:16:31
Speaker
From compared to when I first started wrestling and compared to when I when I started coaching and I was working with You know young high schoolers and there's always like, you know What are the first things you try to teach and tell kids and what advice do you give them up front? Right that you don't want to overload them But you also don't want to like, you know You want to get them going down the right path whether it be like what technique are you gonna teach? You know all that stuff
00:16:53
Speaker
And my coach didn't have the luxury of being able to tell me, you need to go on YouTube and look so-and-so up or look up this technique and do this sort of study, which is something I was able to do now that we have so much more access to this stuff. And it's so much easier to kind of get kids to look at what it means to hit this technique at the highest level. And I can only imagine that that's been a huge impact
00:17:20
Speaker
on, on how much better I think wrestling, I mean, at least from my perspective, I think that it's, it's been exponential. Like every decade, the wrestling seems to be better and better at lower and lower levels. Yeah, I think so too. And, um, my, my younger brother, he's in his second year of coaching right now. And, you know, we, we talk almost every day about like technique and stuff that happened in the room and, um,
Coaching Techniques & Learning Styles
00:17:48
Speaker
things like that. But.
00:17:49
Speaker
Um, there's so much video of pretty much any wrestler who's ever been very good ever. They have some sort of technique series online or enough matches where you could kind of pick it up yourself. And it's like, if I'm coaching, why am I going to teach the Michael Cohen high crotch series when I could teach the Brett Metcalf high crotch series? And I can just watch these videos and like, you know, I'm teaching Brett Metcalf style of his, of his high crotch.
00:18:19
Speaker
And it's going to be high level and it's going to be really, really good. So I feel like, you know, why do you want to learn how to hit a high crotch from your local D three college wrestler? Who's in the room? No shade of course, but you know, you could also learn this top wrestlers technique. So why not just study it and teach it exactly how they teach it. So he's been, um,
00:18:48
Speaker
Shout out to Cliff Fretwell in compound wrestling. I think particularly his Instagram. He does everything by series too. So a lot of technique pages will just show like one random technique. It's like here's how to escape from this position. Here's this one duck under blah blah blah. But Fretwell for like the whole week it'll be like here's the two on one series and he'll post seven or eight videos of the two on one. So it's like
00:19:15
Speaker
You know, if you're going to teach that it's just like, it's laid out for you. So easy to consume, so easy to learn. Um, it's such like, uh, you know, there's just so much, so much gold out there to learn from, you know, why not take advantage of it. I feel like this new age of like social media has also revealed to me, um, how much so many coaches over explain technique when they're teaching it.
00:19:44
Speaker
And how quickly you can actually teach something and you don't need to spend like you do not need to spend 10 minutes with everyone sitting in their semicircle Watching you do this move. I I really picked up in my coaching where it's much better to Get them doing it quicker show them just like the main aspects of the technique and get them going quicker and then you'll see what needs to be adjusted what are they doing naturally already that you don't need to teach and
00:20:13
Speaker
And then you'll have to get to focus just on the things that they don't understand about the technique. Um, I think that really got translated to me when I was watching a lot of Kerry Colatz, uh, technique videos. And he does a really good job of keeping those things short and sweet. And he's, and he's really efficient with what he's saying so that he is explaining the technique very clearly, um, within a very short amount of time. Like he'll do a two minute video and you know, just on one technique. And that's like, that's what I want a young wrestler to see.
00:20:43
Speaker
And then to immediately go into drilling from that. Um, so I, that's something that I've kind of noticed. We're just like, we gotta, we gotta speed up our teaching a little bit more, get them doing things a little bit more and make adjustments from there. Um, I don't know. At least that's just something I've kind of noticed on that. Sasha, you have anything to add on this? Yeah, I, I definitely learn a bit slower, I think, or I feel like, uh,
00:21:10
Speaker
For me, I learned the technique best when it's like broken down into very basic parts, or it'll just, you know, if you're doing elbow block high C, it's just like what each specific piece, what each specific piece is emphasizing or what it's doing for you. Or like thinking about like, I always, the way I conceptualize the techniques was for me was always like, what, you know, this joint bends this way and it doesn't bend this way.
00:21:39
Speaker
And like, why is this, what, how is this technique, uh, making use of, of that fact, like things like that, or like what, what muscle group exists here? And does it go, is it strongest pushing or is it strongest pulling and how can you like things like that? Like very, like very super basic level. That's how I like to learn. That's how I like to teach. So I'm probably a little bit more long-winded when I'm, when I'm coaching, cause I'll just be like,
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah, this muscle, this muscle group is best when it's pulling and it's bad when it's pushing. So yeah, that's why I think there's work because you're taking it out of that context. Yeah, there's tons of value in that sort of stuff too, right? Like I think it's good for them to like really develop that background knowledge, right? So when they see a new technique and they see like the type of movement the body's making, if you give them that background knowledge of like these muscle groups do this and this and that, then they're able to kind of intuit a little bit better and understand the technique faster.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah, you have to something you have to build up at like, still working on it. Like, how do you build up? How do you like, teach these teach a kid?
Wrestling's Influence on Music Career
00:22:50
Speaker
Like, whatever these like, you know, main principles are and like, build them up? And can you even teach those things as you're doing it? Or do they kind of need to feel it and do it and then get an understanding of it in retrospect, like, oh, that's you're describing a thing I've always felt? Can you
00:23:07
Speaker
teach them to feel it first. I don't know, maybe not. Maybe you have to, maybe you just have to let them get it and then later describe like, yeah, that's what you're feeling is this concept. Depends on the athlete too, maybe. To be nerdy and a teacher perspective on this. It's like, if you're coaching, it's like you got to differentiate. So like, depending on your students, like some people do just like to
00:23:37
Speaker
see it real quick, kind of like what Evan's saying and just start messing with it and sort of, you know, um, see what to do from there, where to make breakdowns and improvements. And like some people like do like those long and lanky kind of things, but they're all, it all depends, you know, on the kids consuming it. And I think too, it, um, it's like, it depends on what the move is, like,
00:24:03
Speaker
Are you, do your students, do your wrestlers know how to, how to hit a high crotch? Okay. So if you're going to show this small variation or this different kind of setup of a high crotch, do you need to explain it for 25 minutes or something? For some kids, maybe. I definitely coach some kids that I had to do that with. Yeah. And this is generally speaking, of course. Um.
00:24:27
Speaker
You know, but then, then it's like, okay, we're going to teach these seventh graders in ankle roll. You know, we're going to teach them about scrambling or something. So that's not a move to just like, all right, you just get in there, get on your own back and, you know, throw his leg over. It's like that, that might be more of a breakdown or something like that. So I, I feel, and granted I have.
00:24:47
Speaker
Practically no coaching experience. So and I wasn't a good wrestler. So if anybody wants theories like that, you know, I you know Understand but I think to some extent objectively speaking. I know what I'm talking about Well, either way you're I feel like you're doing a service by putting the old clips out there Something that you two have in common that I'm excluded from is you're both musicians
00:25:18
Speaker
And Mike, you got an interesting perspective a little bit on like the mental game, when it means to be a musician and to be a wrestler and some, and you've been comparing those lately. Wanted to kind of give you the floor a little bit, talk a little about what you mean by that. Yeah, I mean, this is a loaded topic. There's so much, when I'm playing music, performing, practicing, I'm constantly thinking about wrestling, constantly.
00:25:48
Speaker
all the time. And I guess the main thing is like hard work. With wrestling, you know, obviously, push your body to crazy limits, like me and my brother used to say, like, every practice is the worst day of our lives. Every day, like, you know, which we learned to enjoy practices, we got older, but like, practice is fucking hard.
00:26:12
Speaker
And matches are super, super hard. So it's like you kind of know your limits and you know your boundaries of how hard you could really push yourself. So I think wrestling to me in terms of dedication and like learning to love the grind and just pushing my body to extreme limits is something huge that I got out of being a musician. And I think for instance,
00:26:42
Speaker
I don't know any music theory. I mean, I'm in like a relatively popular band right now. I've been in a couple other bands, but I don't know any music theory. I don't know any notes. I don't know any scales. I know a lot of things intuitively, but the way I practice is I will take one riff.
00:27:07
Speaker
and i'll play it over and over and over again until like my hands are red and my skin's peeling off and like literally i'll watch an entire two-hour long movie the whole freaking movie and just like just grind myself like raw um and when i'm when i'm doing it in like my
00:27:31
Speaker
arms are burning and my fingers are numb and stuff. Like I'm thinking like I, I literally like see myself in a wrestling room or like my feet. And I'm like, you know, make your 17 year old wrestling obsessed self, you know, proud and just keep fucking going until you literally can't do it anymore. Um, so yeah, that that's like, that's one aspect in terms of hard work. And I think it's, um,
00:28:01
Speaker
It's gotten me in two bands, pretty much. So my first band in Los Angeles, we were called Fuck Forever. And I had to try out for that band. And there were three other bass players. It was kind of scary because we all met up to rehearse the songs for the first time with each other. We were all there, which with wrestling too, like got me stoked because it was very competitive, you know? You're at Wayans.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, my way ends exactly. Yeah. I was just like, I'm going to fucking drill these hipsters. Like I'm going to annihilate. Were you the only one with your shirt off? Um, yeah. Even with fuck forever, I didn't play with a shirt. Like playing with a shirt sucks. Like you get hot and I don't want to be hot. You know, that's, that's really it. Um, but yeah, I think with, with fucked forever, it was, um,
00:29:01
Speaker
these three other bass players, they all showed up and like, they knew the songs loosely, maybe like 60, 75%, something like that. But I drove myself, I basically learned the songs in three weeks. It was like, all right, in three weeks, we'll meet up for this thing. And I would do crazy shit to learn these songs, which are really, really tough, like crazy chaotic wrestling things, for instance,
00:29:30
Speaker
I would set my alarm two or three times throughout the night at random hours, two in the morning, five in the morning, six in the morning. I'd immediately get up and I'd start playing the songs. Because it's like, if you could play these songs when you're still fucking asleep, and your body is not loose or anything, that means it's really ingrained. So I did that and just spent considerably more time, presumably, than these other kids on learning these songs. We're not kids. We're adults.
00:30:00
Speaker
Um, when I showed up, I knew those songs I could have played a show that day. I was like ready to go. So in terms of just like preparation and just, you know, I mean, you would never show up to a wrestling match, like, you know, in season or something, not like conditioned, not like super, super ready to go. You know, it's with wrestling, it's always kind of like a go hard or go home sport. Um, you can't.
00:30:26
Speaker
you know, maybe some people could make it and do okay with it at like a high school level. You know, I know, like, I am art would always talk about how he didn't really train very hard or do very much. And he was still like a dominant high school guy. But for most people, that's not true. So I would just like overly prepare myself for every situation. And same thing with cancer, Christ was literally the same thing. Um,
00:30:51
Speaker
There were a few other bass players and I showed up day one, knew the songs as well as I do today. And yeah, you just got to beat your body the fuck up to get where you want to get. Is it common for you to do stance and motion drills before performance? I don't do stance and motion.
Parallels Between Music Practice and Wrestling
00:31:22
Speaker
But something that is funny and I noticed when I watched myself live, cause I like getting physically, um, I like touching the crowd and kind of like mashing with them at certain moments. And like, I was a left leg, left, left leg lead in, in wrestling. And like, when I'm getting like bodied up by people, like I kind of get in a little stance for a second, just like naturally, um, which is always like pretty funny. Um, but yeah.
00:31:51
Speaker
I mean, in terms of, in terms of preparation too, um, I'm, I kind of prepare for a show the same way I would prepare for, uh, an event, a wrestling match or tournament. What I mean by that is like, I was always like the first one on the mat, like of the tournament, you know, it's like three hours, two hours before the tournament begins. And there's people already like warming up and like, that was me, which is kind of helped me like get in the zone. I get to really take my time.
00:32:19
Speaker
And it's the same thing when I'm getting ready for music. There's typically four bands who play. Usually we're playing last, my band now. And I'm in our green room practicing and getting ready. I don't even watch any of the other bands most of the time. Or I'll watch them for a second and hop back in. And I'm just kind of in the room just getting in the zone and getting my body loose.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah. Same way I did it with wrestling, you know, just starting as early as humanly possible. Sasha, do you relate to any of that? Yeah. So I would say for like, uh, most, most of my learning in any, anything that I'm trying to learn or any skill I'm practicing for the most part, like most of that for me is driven by OCD. So I'll do, I do various.
00:33:18
Speaker
various things that I do because I have OCD to learn things. But one thing I noticed after two years of playing piano and keyboard, and things were getting, made a really big jump those first two years. And then things were slowing down. Something I noticed in music that was maybe a little bit different than wrestling.
00:33:47
Speaker
But, you know, kind of similar was that like, uh, at least like practicing music and to get to the jump to like another level past where I was, was sort of like every practice was like training bottom for like two hours. Like for, at least for me, like, like, like Mike saying, like just one repetitive, one riff over and over again for two hours, just doing that or like.
00:34:17
Speaker
You know, like a lot of the things that make you really good at music are very, uh, for how fun music is like extremely inversely proportional to how fun practice is to get good.
Mental Toughness from Wrestling
00:34:31
Speaker
Um, and that was at the point where, you know, I was playing in bands and I was like, I'll be this good. I won't necessarily be so much better than I am now. But it was sort of like, it was sort of like, I just, that's how I conceptualized it when it was either like, uh,
00:34:48
Speaker
practicing ear training for a while something that was always like a real pain in the ass for me or just little exercises you just have to Incorporate them more and more and you're playing less of the music and you're doing more and more of the exercises like things like that I just always conceptualize it is like This is this is training bottom right now right now. I'm doing I'm working on bottom. I
00:35:15
Speaker
Anytime I'm doing something really difficult that I just think sucks ass, I'm like, this is bottom, this is bottom, this is boring, but this is the stuff you have to do. It is like a thing that probably lots of athletes do, but we're always comparing like the hard things we're doing with like how hard wrestling was. And of course there's the quote of like, I think it's Dan Gable or whoever said it.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah. What is it? Someone say it for me? I can't remember. You all know what I'm talking about. Nothing. After wrestling, everything in life is easy. It's a dumbass quote, obviously. We all get we're Dan Dan's got some funny quotes. But yeah, like, what's the what's the one quote that to motivate himself, he would picture his opponents in the shower.
00:36:13
Speaker
He was he would say whenever I would feel tired or like feel like giving up I picture my opponents in the shower as in to say that they that the opponent was already done with practice and he's still there working hard. That's what he meant. But obviously comes up differently. He definitely said that and he was like, Oh, shit. How do I how do I?
00:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, Dan's got some good ones. But you know, even though I think that quote is silly, it's still just kind of like I always do catch myself like, well, I can I can go on this hike, you know, I did wrestling kind of thing, right? Yeah, I think it's it's it's interesting that we have to that I don't I'm guessing other athletes do something similar, but I don't find myself comparing
00:37:08
Speaker
My, my football practices with like hard things in life, right? I don't find myself doing that, but I do that, do that with wrestling, which I think says something a little bit about, about our experience with the sport. Man, isn't it, wasn't it so annoying, like in high school and like football players would start their season and be like, it's hell week. They're like, it's nothing, it's hell every day, blah, blah, blah. And then like.
00:37:33
Speaker
one of the wrestlers would go and try out Hell Week and they're like, yeah, we just like sprinted a lot and like ran a mile and we got tired. We got tired. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, do you literally like want to die like every day? Cause that's, I mean, and being a wrestler, I think you're kind of a masochist. You sort of have to be, but like, I mean,
00:37:59
Speaker
Oh, a tough wrestling practice. Like, I mean, that's really digging deep tears to the, your, your loins, you know, your plugs. Oh, like you gotta, you gotta really pull out like the real fucking, you know, brutal character and you need to, to keep it going. And, um, you know, it's not just once it's not like you do that once a week or once a month, it's like five, six days a week.
00:38:24
Speaker
And then, you know, when you're outside the practice room, it's like putting yourself in that position, pushing your bodies out hard by yourself without a coach telling you what to do without other people, you know, watching you. Um, and, um, yeah, I think too, with, with, with music that would always kind of like pump me up.
00:38:46
Speaker
Two, when conditions are difficult or when I start noticing my body struggling playing stuff, I get really, really pumped up because I think that's kind of like what wrestlers sort of do. Like you find inspiration through like turmoil and through difficult times. And it's like we played one show where it was really fucking cold out. It was like 45 degrees. We played at like midnight or something.
00:39:14
Speaker
And I wear, I'm wearing like these short shorts and like a fishnet shirt and like it's cold. And it's, it's difficult to play guitar when you're cold because you know, your, your fingers get kind of stiff. And I just remember that show was one of the best shows I'd ever played in my life. And cause I was just like, yo, like fuck, like everyone was kind of like complaining. We're like, oh, fuck. Like.
00:39:39
Speaker
How am I going to do this? It's so cold. I can't move my hands. And I'm just like, I'm going to rip this to shreds right now. Like I was so stoked and just like my energy was like so, so good. And, um, yeah, I think that's like one thing I've rendered out of, out of wrestling too. And I mean, you could apply these things to anything, you know, like with college.
00:40:03
Speaker
you know, your school or your job or relationships, friendships, like literally anything. It's just like, you know, with wrestling, you just know how to push yourself to really extreme limits. And that's like, you know, knowing your knowing your capabilities in terms of how hard you can push yourself, I think is like really fucking awesome, you know, and helpful.
00:40:28
Speaker
And we really like, I think we romanticize it a lot too, right? Like that's, that's the reason you told the story about the cold show you played, right? Cause because of the pain that you fought through, that's what made the story interesting. Right. So, you know, we, we all like, you know, have that story of that, like, fuck, I cut so much weight, right? Uh, for this one tournament and did this or like, Oh, I battled through this injury. Right. Um, and there's just a lot of that I feel like, right? Where, uh, uh,
00:40:56
Speaker
It gives us the drama right in a narrative of our own little of our own little lives Right that can you know, it allows us to also like relate to one another Through not just being like oh we we wrestled but we like we kind of we kind of dig this stuff We kind of dig this this push and this and this grind, right? that it sort of forces us to to I think to some extent reckon with
00:41:25
Speaker
Um, what is it about that that we like, right? What is it about that that makes us want to like, you know, I like going through the hard times because then I could say I went through the hard times, right? There's a little bit of that to it, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I mean, it feels bad ass to be like, you went through some crazy ass shit right now. And like, I don't know, sometimes your, your drive and it's okay is to like tell people, you know, or, or to have people see it. And like, for instance, like,
00:41:54
Speaker
With wrestling, sometimes we would have photographers from the school newspaper in our practice room. And everyone would go freaking crazy those days, because there's people on you trying to get photos of you. And same thing with music. I share a practice room with a lot of other bands or a few other bands. And sometimes people will chill and watch us rehearse and stuff. And I get stoked. I'm just like, all right, I can't play shit if somebody's watching us.
00:42:23
Speaker
So I gotta, I gotta make sure, you know, my game's on. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, that's, that's why we have, that's why we have intensive training camps, right? So that we can, we can wear t-shirts and tell people that we did it, right? That's what, that's what they're for. That's really what they're for. I don't know how much they're actually helping with wrestling, but that's what they're for. Well, the conditioning, the conditioning, of course, when you come back from that is just so good. Um,
00:42:53
Speaker
After I tear my ACL, my conditioning is cool. Exactly. I mean, if you're on a mat, you're doing good stuff. But the J-Rob, I don't know what the J-Rob community is like right now, but when we were younger, the J-Rob community, they just truly felt like they were better
Wrestling Camps & Cultural Significance
00:43:14
Speaker
than everyone. Kind of some Penn State vibes. But just in terms of conditioning, and it was great.
00:43:22
Speaker
You went nuts in July. Right. You've gotten really good shape right before the season wasn't starting. Yeah. So, but I mean, I don't know how hard those practices were. I'm sure they're really hard in terms of like what we're talking about and stuff too. I'm sure kids pushed themselves past what they thought their limits were. And that's really big deal for male reasons, like we've discussed.
00:43:52
Speaker
So can't be too much of a hater. Like if you're on the mat and you're trying hard, it's like, what am I going to make fun of you? Like, no, but, but yeah, those shirts, man, they made people crazy. Sasha, you didn't go, you didn't go to, uh, J Rob. No, I went to, I think the longest one I ever went to was, uh, like a one, one week. I want to say it was only one week. Might've been like week and a half at Ohio state.
00:44:22
Speaker
Um, and, uh, that was fun. Uh, I think we did like three practices a day, you know, and that was tough enough, honestly. And, you know, if you're too tired, you're probably not learning a lot of new technique either. So I dunno, I just think like those big long camps, although I do agree that it's a great way to build up some mental toughness. That's for sure. I do think you can do that without all the accoutrement of, uh, of, uh, of just like, we are intensive getting yelled at by a roided up college wrestler that you suck.
00:44:52
Speaker
I never did that. But speaking of camps, I think it's time that we, we, uh, we give Mike his second stage here of the evening.
Routine's Role in Peak Performance
00:45:04
Speaker
There is, there is one more thing I want to bring up with, um, with music and wrestling before we move on. Um, and I hate that this is what I call it. I've for, for this podcast, I was trying to think of a different name, but there's just no other fitting name.
00:45:22
Speaker
Um, I call it like flow state when you're flowing. Um, and, um, I used to prioritize or I had a coach used to prioritize when I was in high school, like getting in a state of flow when you're wrestling, you know, when you're in the zone, whatever you want to call it. And you're not thinking and you're just going, going, going, going. And I think a lot of people kind of think that it's like,
00:45:48
Speaker
coincidence or it's like, this is how it's feeling that day. And I was able to like get in the zone, but there are, there's ways to get into the zone. And like, um, it's, it's important for any type of performance, whether it's music, whether it's sports or something, if you could get in that zone, like you're really going to be your best self or as close to it as you can. And, um,
00:46:12
Speaker
I have this, this one I used to teach this to my students about reading, but it's applicable to wrestling and music. And it seems kind of silly and it seems sort of obvious in a way, but I think about it a lot. And it's something I would teach, uh, or I would call it getting in touch with your gorillas. And what that means is, and it's about routine and, um, you go into a jungle and you try to see some gorillas hang out with some gorillas, you know,
00:46:42
Speaker
You just show up into the jungle, like they're gonna, they're like, who the hell is this guy? They're not gonna show their face, they're not gonna hang out with you, they're not gonna do anything, they're just gonna hide. But if you show up the same time the next day, you know, they'll see you, they'll start getting more used to you, you know, now it's two weeks, you're showing up at the same time twice a day at 9 a.m., at 3 p.m., doing the same kind of stuff, moving around in the same kind of ways, like the grills, they're gonna start like coming out, like showing their face for a second,
00:47:12
Speaker
back in. And eventually, you know, with enough time and dedication to routine, I think you can reach this state where you're getting more and more and more comfortable getting in touch with your gorillas. And getting in touch with your gorillas is a symbol for like getting in the zone.
Mike's Unfinished Business Story
00:47:32
Speaker
And I think routine is a huge, huge, huge aspect of that. So the way you prepare for a wrestling match. And of course you can be creative with this and try different stuff and try out different warmups and things like that. But you go about every tournament, you know, the same way you eat the same kind of foods, you hydrate yourself the same way, you start warming up at the similar times and stuff like that.
00:47:58
Speaker
Eventually, like your body responds to routine and gets comfortable with routine. And naturally when things break structure, our brains are wired to be like, what the heck is going on? So if you can like lay out a routine for yourself and attend to it really like militantly, um, I think that that can help you like get in the zone. And sort of what I was talking about before with music, like I start warming up really early, like
00:48:27
Speaker
My warmup for music is exactly the same every time. And it's exactly how it used to be when I would wrestle. I would start super, super early. I do like a burnout set kind of like simulating like a real match, you know, which, which a lot of people do to kind of get that like first, you know, like sometimes your first match is the hardest sort of thing. So it's like, get the first match out of your way. So I'd do the same thing. Like I'll play the whole set.
00:48:54
Speaker
whole thing and like my hands will hurt. I take a break, I get some food, I get some water, and then I come back and I start warming up again. So I think routine is so huge in terms of preparation and getting you just in a good mental state to like do as well as, you know, your skills will allow you to do.
00:49:22
Speaker
I think that's why I get to work so early sometimes. I just need my time to get ready for the day. But yeah, hey, we want to hear. We want the people to hear. A little bit about some unfinished business for you, Mike. We want you to be able to get the word out here. We think this story needs to be told. It deserves to be told.
00:49:48
Speaker
Uh, some people will know what we're talking about here, but I want to give you a chance to kind of lay it out there. Give us a little summary here. Um, and we, we might have some cross-examination for you. You know, we want to, we want to learn a little bit more too. Um, but yeah, tell us what is, what is this? What is the history with Damien Hahn? The history of Damien Hahn. So first of all, if Damien's listening to this, I'd like to apologize. He definitely is. Definitely is. I like to apologize. Um, it sucks that it has to get there.
00:50:17
Speaker
to get here, to have this story shared on a podcast that's going to be listened to by hundreds, if not thousands of people. I didn't want to expose this publicly. I didn't want it to have to get here. But here we are after being ghosted several times via email, via tweets. And I'm tired. I need closure. I need to move on with my life, emotionally speaking. It's something I think of.
00:50:46
Speaker
far more often than I should. And like you said, it's unsettled business. So where the beef with me and Damien Hahn came from was in the summer of 2009, I went to the Cornell Intensive Wrestling Camp, and he was an assistant coach then. So he was part of the program.
00:51:13
Speaker
I will give credit where credit's due. Um, that camp ruled for so many reasons. It was a so much fun. I think part of that was me just getting along with the other kids. And we just kind of bonded super, super quick. And, um, there were, there were other camps there. There would be like three day camps, five day camps. There are a bunch of other camps. Um, but.
00:51:39
Speaker
We kind of had this little holier than thou attitude because we were the 19 day intensive camp. So we just kind of bonded and it was super, super fun. And all the technique we learned was really, really great. We would have like duels almost every day versus the other groups, the other smaller camps. And we would win all of them.
00:52:08
Speaker
It was super, super fun. And like for me personally too, I was kind of, um, um, one of those kids, like obsessed with like the rankings and results and being like, well, I beat this kid six to two and he beat this kid six to four. So theoretically speaking, I should win six to three or like stuff like that. So, um,
00:52:31
Speaker
When I got to Cornell, like there was nobody from Long Island there. I grew up in Long Island. Um, so I was sort of like on my own for the first time and all of those pressures and all of that, just like local drama and stuff just like totally went out the window. And, um, and we talked about like flow state, like I was like flowing super, super hard. So I was just like having fun and there was no pressure.
00:52:57
Speaker
You know with local people or this guy's dad watching me or my friend watching me or something like that. So none of that so Yeah, the camp ruled and Up until day 11 So day 11 happens. We had a curfew of 9 p.m. And There is a on-campus convenience store called bear necessities And
00:53:24
Speaker
me and it was either 13 or 14 other kids. Um, we're past curfew. It was like nine 30. So we're 30 minutes past curfew. We were at bare necessities. I swear it seems like so wholesomely cliche, but it's literally true. Like they, uh, at a lot of like seven 11s and gas stations, they have those like milkshake machines where you like, they have these frozen cups and you put it in the machine and it like makes this bomb ass shake for you.
00:53:53
Speaker
So we're literally drinking milkshakes, like just being little shitheads, having a lot of fun. And the director of the camp, I can't remember her name. It was a woman. That's pretty much all I can remember. She caught us and she comes up to us and says, all right, we gotta go back to my office. We're calling all of your parents. We're gonna send you all home tomorrow.
00:54:20
Speaker
And we're all like, what the fuck? Like it's, we're drinking freaking milkshakes, blah, blah, blah. Like, all right, you want to give us a slap on the wrist or, you know, I don't know, make us, you know, uh, clean some mats or I don't know, do some manual labor or something like, sure. But she said we were going to, we were all going to get kicked out. So in my head, I was just like, shit, like what can I do to not get kicked out? Cause I'm having such a great experience here.
00:54:51
Speaker
So Cornell is a really big campus and like the the dorms we were staying in as opposed to where this director's office was as opposed to where the like wrestling rooms were and the workout rooms and the gyms and stuff they were like all over the place you had to do a lot of walking and it was all like outside and sometimes you'd have to go on like trails and stuff like that so there was a trail we were going on
00:55:16
Speaker
And, um, it was obviously at night, it was probably 10, 10, 15 by then or something. And we're in a single file line because the trail was pretty, pretty skinny, pretty narrow. And, you know, 13 or 14 kids plus this director, this lady. So me and, uh, Sean Donnelly, who is I think a one or two time state champ from Florida at the time, probably like one 19 or one 12. Um,
00:55:47
Speaker
Who's a cool kid? Shout out to Sean. Shout out to Sean. I hope to God I get to talk to that kid or anyone from this camp because that would be really funny to talk about this stuff. But we were like, we're all the way in the back and we're talking. We're just like, if we run away, two out of 13 kids is not a big chunk. So they're all going to show up to the office and probably the other kids that we're with, they're not even going to realize we're gone, at least for some time.
00:56:17
Speaker
And certainly the director won't, cause I didn't even like talk to the director and neither did Sean. It was sort of just like, all right guys, come with me. You're all going, you're all going home. So me and Sean decided to run into the woods. And, um, as we're sprinting in the woods, we noticed behind us that there's two other kids from New Jersey, um, following of course, the Jersey kids, you know, nothing against New Jersey. I've got a lot of, I mean, Hans from New Jersey.
00:56:47
Speaker
Oh, Izzy figures. Yeah. So these Jersey kids follow us. And, um, now it's four out of 13 kids. That's almost a quarter of the kids, which is a big noticeable chunk. So as we're running and they're behind us, we're like, what are you doing? Like they didn't, they didn't even talk to us. They just, I think just impulsively kind of went along with us probably because they thought the same thing. They're going home.
00:57:15
Speaker
It's a fact that she made it seem like it was a fact that we were going on. So we ended up getting back to our dorms and we're like, fuck yeah, we did it, blah, blah, blah. And then like 30 minutes later, we get a, you know, someone comes to our door and they're like, okay, you guys got to obviously come back. So we, we walk with this person to this director's, um,
00:57:43
Speaker
her office and none of the other kids are there and we're like what the fuck like where the other kids at and I said that I'm like where's it where's everyone else at and they're like oh so we were just kidding we just wanted to scare you guys we weren't gonna send you home we just wanted to freak you out but now because you guys ran we're considering sending you guys home now a
00:58:12
Speaker
We would not have ran away if we did not think we were getting kicked out. B, what is the point of scaring us thinking we're getting kicked out? What benefit does anyone get from that besides scaring children? If that's what Cornell is into, scaring kids, you know? Which I mean, they're an Ivy League school. Everyone knows the Ivy League is kind of weird. So maybe that's part of it. I don't know.
00:58:42
Speaker
But Damien Hahn was in the office on his computer. And the director and Damien start talking about what they should do, if they should
Mrs. Hahn's Call & Family Impact
00:58:58
Speaker
send us home or if they shouldn't. And the director asks him, she's just like, what do you think?
00:59:05
Speaker
Damien Hahn like looks at us and we're all literally crying we're like literally in tears because we're like fuck like we're having it was like one of my best experiences as a teenager I've ever had it was so much fucking fun and it was like we're in the Cornell facilities like it just felt really badass and we felt like really cool wrestlers and stuff and you know made really good friends and and all that stuff so we're crying like literally all four of us in tears and
00:59:33
Speaker
And Damien looks at all of us. He glances like the ego maniac that he is, the sadistic, twisted bastard glances at all of us in tears, teenage tears, and says, we got to send him home. And that was it. The next morning we got sent home and it sucked. So I was only there for 11 days. I had to, uh,
01:00:02
Speaker
tell my coach because we were having practices at my high school, you know, we would have open mats like twice a week or something. So I had to tell my coach when I came back because I wanted to practice still, I was just like, Hey, I got kicked out of this camp. He was like, what the hell? Like, what did you do? And he was kind of pissed. And I didn't even get to experience the high of being like, what'd you learn at the Cornell camp? How was it like, you know, because there weren't too many wrestlers on my team who were
01:00:31
Speaker
going out of their way to travel and wrestle. I was kind of the only one. It was like me and my dad, we would go to tournaments in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and stuff. And we'd go to camps and clinics all over and stuff. So I didn't even get to experience that high or anything like that. And then it was just right back into my regular summer life. And so it was Damien's fault. He was the one who made
01:01:01
Speaker
the decision to happen. I think the director, the fact that she asked Damien what we should do, it's just like she was leaning towards and considering not doing it, not kicking us out. But Damien was so firm in his stance. So- Heartless. Heartless. It's pretty ruthless.
01:01:28
Speaker
It's ruthless. I mean, he just watched a bunch of kids cry and allowed us to continue to cry. And you, you know, fast forward to, to, you know, the, maybe 80 years later. Um, is that where we're at? No, no, no. Uh, so, but fast forward, we're, uh, we're, we're now seeing that you are, uh, putting in a certain amount of effort to get in touch with Damien now. Can you tell us about like, how has that process been? Like, is he?
01:01:58
Speaker
Like what's going on? So it, it started with, um, when I won, um, a stalemate, uh, the stalemate awards, I won an award for, um, shout out to stalemates, huge fan of stalemates, um, they're incredibly cool. Bogle. Um, but, um,
01:02:20
Speaker
So the first time I called out Damien Hahn was when I did my interview or my awards acceptance speech. And, um, he, uh, at the, at the end of it was, you know, I'm so sorry. I, I gotta, I gotta interrupt you real quick, Mike. We have a, we have a guest calling in. We have a Mrs. Hahn calling in. Mrs. Hahn. What's, what's happening? Hello. Hello. Yes. This is Mrs. Hahn, longtime listener, first time caller.
01:02:49
Speaker
Thank you for giving me this platform to break my silence. Mr. Old School Wrestling Clips, I don't know if that's even your real name, but I just want you to know how much acrimony your beef with my husband has caused in my marriage. I understand that Damien could have handled things differently with the camp, but you cannot honestly expect him to apologize when you pick on him and punch down on him in front of everybody on the internet.
01:03:11
Speaker
You are a world-renowned wrestling historian. You're a musician and a porn star. And how is Damien supposed to compete with that? He's just some wrestling coach in South Dakota. You need to be the bigger man here. And I don't know if you realize this, but he is obsessed with you. Last year for my birthday, all I asked for was a nice dinner out with my husband and no talk of old school wrestling clips. But you decided to start tweeting that day about who knows what. So what does Damien do? He spends the whole dinner talking about you.
01:03:41
Speaker
And then when I got mad at him and told him to stop it, he pretended to get a tummy ache so he could hide in the bathroom with his cell phone the rest of the night. And this just has to end. For the sake of my marriage, this needs to end.
01:03:52
Speaker
And Evan and Sasha, before I go, I just want to say I'm such a big fan of the show. You two are doing the Lord's work, and I thank you so much for everything you've done for the sport of wrestling, for Twitter, and for the Han family. We love you both so much, and we'll see you at Christmas, OK? I'll make those jalapeno poppers you both like. Love you guys so much. Goodbye. Oh, Miss. Oh, I miss honor you. Oh, I think she left. Oh, my goodness.
01:04:22
Speaker
I'm so sorry. I wasn't, I wasn't expecting that. Oh, you know what? I think I, you, I muted both of you. Unfortunately, you might have to unmute yourselves there. I apologize. Um, man. Yeah. It looks like we're getting a little bit more of the other side of the story here. So yeah, Mrs. Hahn. It opens up a lot of perspective. Um, Hmm. It does. Um, it, it gives us a lot of, uh, perspective on Damien Hahn being bitch made.
01:04:49
Speaker
It's not my fault. If your husband can't roll with the punches, he was a heavyweight national champion and you can't, you know, deal with a little smoke from, um, pretty much a nobody, um, be, I'm glad. Do you realize the turmoil and bullshit that you put your husband, put me through dealing with, um, you know,
01:05:17
Speaker
being a captain of my wrestling team and having to tell them I got kicked out of Cornell wrestling camp. It was how embarrassing that was. Do you know that I was on the chopping block as a captain of the team because of that? So, you know,
01:05:39
Speaker
Um, the bullshit that you're going through now is the bullshit that I go, I went through as a teen as well as the bullshit that I go through every day thinking about the eight days that I lost because your husband is a fucking dumb heavyweight piece of shit. And, um, Mike, what do you say, you know, if someone were to bring up the fact that, uh, you just called him a dumb heavyweight piece of shit, you know, Damien Hahn was held back.
01:06:07
Speaker
Damien Hahn was in a special ed class and he was, he was held back, uh, one of his years before he started high school. You know, because he, because of learning disability, how would you like to, how would you, how would you like to characterize, you know, we're getting this view of you, maybe, maybe as the bully, how like that comment, where does that comment fit in? I am a bully. I love to bully. If you're on the mat, does it matter?
01:06:33
Speaker
Do you wrestle differently when you're wrestling your friend on the mat? No. So this is some sort of, you know, it's an emotional wrestling match that I'm going through with you here. So, you know, if you want to complain to the ref about, you know, your takedown that you didn't get or whatever, you know, then so be it, but I'm going to still come at you full throttle, um, pedal to the metal, you know, hog on leashed.
01:07:02
Speaker
I've been saying a lot that I'm about to unleash the hog. The hog has been unleashed in regards to you and your family, Mrs. Han, um, since I was originally kicked out. Um, if I had the opportunity, would I have literally rested my hog on your loving husband's face and dropped my nuts right in his mouth while he's sleeping?
01:07:27
Speaker
which I'm sure, due to him being a heavyweight, he sleeps with his mouth open and he breathes out of his mouth, which many people call it a mouth breather, which is often looked down upon term. I personally do not give a single fuck. I will come at you with the same amount of fire that I've come at for anybody, and I have several enemies on wrestling Twitter. But you're the number one, and I...
01:07:57
Speaker
am happy about what you just said. I think you, I think the things you said in this message were trying to, you know, make me empathize with the impact that I've had on you and your family. Um, but I am thrilled because how did I know any of this? Because I've just been ghosted left and right on Twitter and on my email. Um, so I am thrilled that you guys are experiencing some emotional pain.
01:08:25
Speaker
Um, and now you know how I feel and how I felt all these years. It's 2023. I mean, um, this happened, was that 2009? So that's 14 years. Um, so welcome to my world, bitch. Um, you know, and, um, jalapeno poppers really, you can't do better than that.
01:08:49
Speaker
Um, I mean, we all like jalapeno poppers, but like, we all like Frito pie too, but you don't, you know, how often are you going to try to brag about a Frito pie or something like that?
Conclusion & Reflections
01:08:59
Speaker
It's just not that, you know, it's like, okay, like, that's a delicacy in, in South Dakota. It's, it probably is. Yeah. And, uh, I wish it was a delicacy to shut the fuck up as well. And maybe Damien would have let me, um, remain on the 19 day intensive camp roster. Hmm.
01:09:17
Speaker
um so so you lost eight days i lost eight days which i lost eight days of your wrestling life did they refund you eight days worth of the camp they actually did okay well um yeah well the bottom line here folks the bottom line here is
01:09:41
Speaker
They emotionally manipulated this child. They punished you for believing them when they said they were gonna kick you out for drinking milkshakes. They punished the child for believing, for trusting an adult. And Damien Hahn, Damien Hahn is a perfectly capable person. He can respond to emails like anybody else. He can handle these situations. The man is in the Jersey Shore Hall of Fame.
01:10:07
Speaker
Um, and he was also the old spite athlete of the month for Sports Illustrated one year. So he can do anything. He can, he can absolutely, uh, respond to these emails and handle this and have a conversation with you, Mike, like, uh, like, uh, two adults, two, two, two very capable adults of having a perfectly mature conversation about this. It doesn't need to happen. I would say it doesn't need to happen any further on our podcast.
01:10:34
Speaker
You know, um, but it needs to happen, right? I think we're all in agreement there. If Damien Hahn wants to come on and hash this out, we would be an impartial, we would be impartial judges of this. This would be, we would turn the pot into a courthouse. We could set it up into a good debate format, you know, 10 minute intros each, you know, you get your rebuttal periods. We'll take questions from the audience. Um, you know, we can, we can set it up. We could set it up properly.
01:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, of course I'd be down for that. Um, something I'm also down for, which I mentioned on stalemates, which, um, the offer was, uh, never accepted or declined, just neglected. Um, I told Damien Han that I would wrestle him in a, well, I'm going to change up the rules a little bit because I've gained a little bit of weight. So I'm going to maybe put a little bit of more, um, you know, uh, more leniency towards me. So.
01:11:34
Speaker
I officially send my second challenge to Damien Hahn on stalemates. I want to wrestle a 45 second folk style match. Damien has, um, stalling. He has a one morning for stalling. I am up 14 to zero and there's 45 seconds left in the match. And, um, I get to wear the John Trench goggles.
01:12:04
Speaker
Um, which I know he's got a lot of experience with, which he did really well. He can't blast through those glasses again. I'll be wearing the glasses. Um, and he's got 45 seconds to either pin me or be, you know, or score more points than me and not stop. So that's my offer to Damien. Um, yeah, you know, um, a message to miss Han.
01:12:32
Speaker
Again, just to reiterate, um, I don't give a fuck. Okay. And, um, it's gonna always be that way. So I think where you need to maybe, uh, change your ways is probably by getting a divorce with Damien Hahn, because I mean, sometimes it takes a long time, you know, you have friends for years, you have a partner for years. They do one, you find out your husband doesn't know how to change oil on a car.
01:13:01
Speaker
bitch made, like marriage ruined, you know, you don't know how to put coolant in your car, you know, bitch made, ruined, you don't know how to cook a steak privately, bitch made, ruined. There's a lot of things that can ruin a marriage. And unless it's my marriage, which I'm not in one, because I'm single as fuck, you know, I'm not going to care. So the fact that it, it has infiltrated your life so intensely,
01:13:32
Speaker
Um, makes, makes me happy. Um, so eat the bird. Um, and, um, maybe I'll see you at stalemates one day, getting my hand raised in front of your gigantic behemoth of a husband. Amen. All right. Well.
01:13:54
Speaker
I know there's been some unexpected twists and turns today, but I think we came away with some really valuable insight about wrestling, about preparing for wrestling, about the way in which wrestling affects other things and our perceptions. We talked a little bit about wrestling history, both old and new. And I think we created some new wrestling history here today. So I want to thank you both, Sasha, for always being my
01:14:23
Speaker
my dependable and capable co-host and Mike for being our first special guest. We appreciate it. We'll edit out 50% of what you've said today and make it something you said other things. But we appreciate your time nonetheless. Cool. I love you guys. To everyone saying the pod has completely gone off the rails. No, it hasn't. And actually, this is fine.
01:14:51
Speaker
on the rails, right? Well, what happened was there were two different ways the pod could have gone and we had to choose between either having Mike on or we would have run over four people on the other track. So it was it was utilitarian decision. But we'll get back to real wrestling history next time. It'll you'll find out what it is then. Anyways, everyone say goodbye. Later. Bye, everybody.