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TSW* S1E7 - Zac Strobl - Northern Kentucky University
27 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of *This Should Work*, we sit down with Zac Strobl, the newly appointed Director of the Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship at Northern Kentucky University. With over a decade of experience in fostering student entrepreneurship through initiatives like the INKUBATOR, Zac shares his insights on the evolving landscape of innovation and the importance of practical, hands-on learning for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Join us as we explore:
- Zac's journey from student entrepreneur to director, including the pivotal moments that shaped his career.
- The mission and vision of the Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship and how it supports students in launching their business ideas.
- The significance of mentorship and community engagement in building a robust entrepreneurial ecosystem.
- Strategies for nurturing creativity and problem-solving skills among students, preparing them for success in both startups and established companies.
- Exciting upcoming initiatives and events at NKU that aim to empower the next generation of innovators.
Whether you're a budding entrepreneur, an educator, or simply interested in the dynamics of innovation, this conversation with Zac Strobl is sure to inspire and inform. Tune in to discover how NKU is shaping the future of entrepreneurship!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:01
margalus
OK, and I am here with Zach Strobel, the director of Northern Kentucky University's Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship. I have a question about that, but I'm not going to ask it quite yet. Recent winner of the Northern Kentucky Chamber's Next Generation Leadership in Education and a cyclist.
Journey into Entrepreneurship
00:00:23
margalus
a baseball player. And, and, you know, you've been doing a lot of interesting stuff with an incubator program that you have too there too. So I'm interested and excited to talk with you about that.
00:00:33
margalus
Zach, that is like my two second version of the introduction to you. Could you tell everybody about yourself a little bit more?
00:00:38
Zac Strobl
Yep.
00:00:41
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:00:41
margalus
Flex that out for me if you could.
00:00:43
Zac Strobl
Yeah, no problem. So thanks so much, Jason. So I actually, my kind of journey in entrepreneurship started as a student. So as you mentioned, I was a baseball player. I was on the baseball team at Northern Kentucky University, and I had an arm injury that ended my career.
00:00:58
Zac Strobl
And I was looking for that next thing. And at the time, Our entrepreneurship program was ranked in the top 25. They had the big banner up. I incidentally read an article at the dentist office about how entrepreneurship is this new major at many universities.
00:01:14
Zac Strobl
It's got all these cool benefits like be your own boss and yeah I take ownership of your future, which really appealed to me.
00:01:17
margalus
Hmm.
00:01:21
Zac Strobl
I started working at a startup company. around my sophomore year, I was the second employee hired there. I worked there all the way through college and even afterwards, but my senior year was when I really kind of started focusing on entrepreneurship. I started my own business. I was very active in our classes. I did things like participated in events, student groups, that kind of stuff. Whereas in previous years, I just kept working. And so I actually got to be a little bit of a student during that year, but I had really good mentors who
00:01:58
Zac Strobl
influenced me in a big way. It really had an impact on my career. One of those is Rodney D'Souza. He's now at Texas Christian University. But interestingly enough, after I graduated, I was you know working at that same startup company. They had moved to Chicago.
00:02:13
Zac Strobl
which I know Jason, youre you're from there. So I was living in Lincoln Park, driving out to the airport, because which you can imagine how much traffic that is.
00:02:15
margalus
Yeah.
00:02:24
Zac Strobl
But
Pivoting Careers and Rising Challenges
00:02:24
Zac Strobl
I got news in the spring of that next year that my dad like passed away.
00:02:24
margalus
yeah
00:02:31
Zac Strobl
It was all of a sudden and it brought me back home. a the Cincinnati area.
00:02:35
margalus
Yeah.
00:02:36
Zac Strobl
So I live in southeast Indiana near Cincinnati. And then obviously I work at Northern Kentucky University, which is also like in that same area, but my dad had a print shop.
00:02:46
Zac Strobl
So I ran that for a little while, not like having no idea how to run a print shop, but I mainly focused on things like sales, marketing, and just like anything I could to kind of keep it up keep me going, get the business, like get some new business in while we tried to sell it. And I reached out to Rodney, my former professor, was asking him like, hey, how do you sell a business? Because this is before you could just like YouTube anything. And so he was giving me some advice, but he was also saying like, hey, when you sell it, are you interested in working with me? I'm trying to start this accelerator program.
00:03:24
Zac Strobl
I'm like, what's an accelerator program? You got to explain that to me. Because that's that's before they're all over the place. And so he actually hired me at NKU to you help him start it. And it started as a part-time position. I then kind of worked my way up after that. But in the meantime, I did other
Building Entrepreneurship Programs at NKU
00:03:44
Zac Strobl
interesting things. like I was a consultant at the Small Business Development Center on top of running the incubator. we took over the Entrepreneurship Center in 2014, kind of rebranded it, created all these new, cool programs. Eventually Rodney was recruited to Texas Christian University where he's the Entrepreneurship Director there. And they put me and one of my colleagues in an interim role. And then eventually we had another director and then finally worked my way up to the director position. So that's a little bit of a lengthy intro, but it's kind of interesting journey getting into
00:04:20
Zac Strobl
working in entrepreneurship after being a student who benefited from the program.
00:04:25
margalus
That's that's really interesting. I you know what I'm obviously I know it's been a while but I'm sorry here by your father's as well and you know But that had have been an interesting journey kind of taking over the family business and trying to you know Figure your way through that if you if if you weren't experienced and you know in the area of print shops and things like that I imagine I
00:04:31
Zac Strobl
Yeah, thank you.
00:04:50
margalus
You know, that's actually the the name of this podcast, This Should Work, is my like one of my life ethos is, which is, you know, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Let's see what happens. I'm not quite certain what's gonna, you know, how it's gonna shake out.
00:05:00
Zac Strobl
yeah i
00:05:02
margalus
it's and And that's, I think, like in my, and you know, my by my estimation and what a lot of entrepreneurship is as well as kind of operating in areas of uncertainty and just kind of being okay with with not knowing what you're doing.
00:05:17
margalus
You mentioned mentorship as well, which I think is really interesting.
00:05:17
Zac Strobl
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:21
margalus
It seems like a key component to to to your story. And you know I guess before we dive into some of these other questions, you know how how do you think about mentorship?
00:05:32
margalus
Is it important at in your program, in your center? is it and is Is it something that you kind of pass on to students as as thinking about as well? and And how has it played a role in you know your development too?
00:05:45
Zac Strobl
Yeah. So I have, personally, I have mentors in various aspects of my life. You know, on a personal level, I'm married. I've been married 11 years now. I have a daughter who's seven, a son who's four. And I have mentors who mentored me as a dad, who have mentored me from like a personal finance standpoint. And of course in my career, I've always kind of gravitated towards people who I look at what they're doing. And I'm like, okay, that's they've figured something out. So that's been a really big part of my own personal development is
00:06:20
Zac Strobl
is utilizing mentors. But then as far as working with students, that's kind of the cornerstone of our programming is mentorship. And I'm glad you caught that because a lot of people will ask me, like you know what's so like how do you do this? like How do you run an accelerator? How do you do this new program? That kind of stuff. and like And because we are focused on undergraduate students primarily,
00:06:49
Zac Strobl
That's what we spend most of our time doing is, you know, building one on one relationships with them like yeah there's all this programming and events and and things that you can do but I'm discovering more and more like to see a student, especially like we have kind of a unique At least to some people might think it's unique like student base where you know we're still at 42% first generation of students.
Role of Mentorship in Entrepreneurship
00:07:15
Zac Strobl
So a lot of them are coming from families where they may not have seen success. They may not have seen like their parents in a fulfilling career so for a lot of them like their statistics on this like
00:07:28
Zac Strobl
a lot of students are lacking mentors in our lives, especially Gen Z right now. And so we're we're trying to be one of those mentors and then also connect them to other people who can be a mentor them to them also.
00:07:42
margalus
Yeah, that's that's excellent. i'm I'm curious, what's the mix excuse me what's the what's the mix of of of mentors that you have? Are they alums? Are they people affiliated with the institution? Are they people in the business you know in the business world, kind of in the area, all of the above? what what does that What does that look like for you?
00:08:05
Zac Strobl
Yeah, so and I know, so this is a national podcast, maybe even international, but it's we're in the greater Cincinnati area. And so I can literally see downtown Cincinnati from the dean's office right down the hall. And and so it's we're we're part of this this metro area that kind of expands out the three states. Like if you look at a map, you'll see a loop of 275 that kind of goes through all three states. And that's really a lot of work where a lot of our students are coming from. And so i we we have a very good business community and it's very very diverse. there's There's a few industry clusters, but just when you look at it, it's it's pretty like all over the place. And yeah there's big codes like PNG and Kroger, but then there's many, many small businesses small to medium sized businesses and kind of everything in between that. but
00:09:03
Zac Strobl
We also have the benefit of 82% of our alumni are in the region still. And so for us, like we can reach out to people who went to NKU, our entrepreneurs, maybe they went through our programs and asked them like, hey, do you want to help out? And sometimes vice versa, they'll reach out to us. So we do get a lot of alumni. We have a startup community Under the banner of Startup Sensee, plus we have an organization called Blue North, which kind of leads entrepreneurship in Northern Kentucky. And these organizations have done a fantastic job of kind of bringing people together in anything from like education to venture capital to the startups to even getting the big coves involved.
00:09:45
Zac Strobl
And so we really have access to like the amenities of Citi right here that we can utilize, which has really led to getting like such quality mentorship.
00:09:56
margalus
That's interesting. so you know i've've I agree, mentorship is a key component. I have you know a lot of my own mentors who I i lean on for various aspects. i'm I'm a first-generation college student.
00:10:09
margalus
I don't know about you, but it's it's definitely something that's necessary.
00:10:10
Zac Strobl
in
00:10:13
margalus
And and that first-gen component is is really interesting to me, too. It seems like that's part of the the that that would affect the DNA of how you run your your center as well in some respects. you know I'm sure there are a lot of things that you all do that's that a lot of other centers do, but that first generation component seems to be like a potential differentiator as well.
00:10:35
margalus
And at the beginning of the interview, I mentioned that your center is innovation and entrepreneurship. And so this is like a, this is like a combo.
00:10:42
Zac Strobl
Correct. Yeah.
00:10:44
margalus
I'm trying to like combo question this one, which is, you know, your center, you have your your mission, your values, like what's
00:10:45
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:10:52
margalus
What's your goals? What's driving it? I'm curious, I guess, one, why why innovation and entrepreneurship and what's the difference between the two, if any? And how does both like that first generation component, if at all, the innovation and entrepreneurship component and and anything else drive kind of your goals or your mission? And what did I miss? What other things kind of contribute to that as well?
00:11:15
Zac Strobl
Yes, that that's another fantastic question, something we've thought a lot about over the past couple of years. We actually just rebranded the name of our major and minor to innovation entrepreneurship, which you know doesn't sound like the most creative, but there's a good reason behind it.
00:11:27
margalus
Mm.
00:11:31
Zac Strobl
And so when we look at our alumni data and if There's other entrepreneurship center directors who fill out the Princeton Review. You know that one of the questions is, how many of your alumni in the past 10 years have started a business? We're about 20%. And so what we got to thinking about was,
00:11:52
Zac Strobl
what's everyone else going to do? And i I had that same exact question as a student. And I i chose to double major marketing in marketing and entrepreneurship because I'm like, well, if I don't find success in this business venture I'm working on, what do I do? And so what you'll see at other universities, and and we're a big proponent of this, is encouraging our students to minor in innovation entrepreneurship. So if they're not part of the College of Business, and we could explain why that is. But you know just because the core classes they have to take, we own the minor in entrepreneurship. But if they are a business major, they could double major. And so do accounting and entrepreneurship. And if they end up doing just entrepreneurship, that's great as well. But what we found was the top skills employers are looking for.
00:12:38
Zac Strobl
is actually what we teach. So if you look at like the World Economic Forum has a article that you can pull up where it's like, hey, these these are the top 10 skills of 2025. Eight out of 10 are things that are like core components of the competencies that we teach in our classes. And so what we're trying to help our students do is brand themselves. And so in the big companies, i I've talked to multiple and they're they're really looking at skills before they're looking at like,
Flexible Approaches in Entrepreneurship Education
00:13:07
Zac Strobl
What's your major? Now that's two degrees. Of course, like some of them still require a specific degree, but most of them want to know what kind of skills they have. And so that's what we're trying to teach them and do is like, how do you solve a problem for somebody else? How can you use creative, innovative thinking? And so really we have kind of a dual track within our own programming. And it's like, we want them to do things like work at a startup. So we have startup internships,
00:13:34
Zac Strobl
So we work with local companies on that. We want to experience that. We want to do projects in the classroom where they're using problem solving innovation skills to help a company solve a problem and then come up with solutions around it. And then we're helping them kind of brand themselves as well.
00:13:51
Zac Strobl
in a course like any entrepreneurship program is going to teach you how to start a business like that.
00:13:55
margalus
Right.
00:13:56
Zac Strobl
That goes without saying and so we've also kind of adjusted our expectations on that through the years where you know you you see some programs are more focused on like what's a high growth, high high risk type business where they could get venture capital. And like we we have students going down that track, but more and more we want our students to just open something and make money. And so that's that's been a little bit of a difference and approach through the years as well.
00:14:27
margalus
that's That's interesting. so so Here at W and&L, we have Entrepreneurship Center, Entrepreneurship Program. Innovation is certainly something that I want all of my students to touch on, to learn, but but it is like that business component. But there's like everything that comes before the business component.
00:14:48
margalus
like building the business, that's also necessary if you're going to have success, like I think. And so I found that really interesting when I was you know looking at all of your information. You've got innovation and entrepreneurship, which is, you know I think, pretty cool, especially for kind of the student mix that that you all have. I'm wondering, you know so so you've you've rebranded.
00:15:10
margalus
you you you just become the director fairly recently, about about a year ago, right? And but you know there's all sorts of interesting challenges that that come up in that, right? So one, you you're inheriting a center. You're inheriting something that's that's kind of somebody's been somebody's baby, right? Or somebody's been working on for, I think it was three years for the center before before you, right? the The director
Scaling Initiatives and Community Involvement
00:15:37
margalus
position that you took over.
00:15:38
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:15:40
margalus
and And so there's got to be some challenges with that. I'm wondering, you know, what it sounds like there were you you addressed some some other challenges by rebranding because you're kind of introducing new curriculum and and a new way of thinking about the center. but what are you know what What were some challenges for you as you came into the role? What are some challenges that you know but maybe prior folks have faced? I'm also interested in what are you looking forward to? you know like what are you What are you working on? What are those key performance indicators or strategies that you're you're working on in in your new role?
00:16:16
Zac Strobl
Yeah, so the the I think the difference for me is I've been at NKU for 12 years now and I've I've either co-founded or yeah i'm the one who started the programs that we have under our center today.
00:16:33
Zac Strobl
so it's It wasn't a huge shift.
00:16:36
margalus
Yeah.
00:16:38
Zac Strobl
Actually, the our previous director, his name is David Schneider.
00:16:43
Zac Strobl
He's our entrepreneur in residence. and When David started, we we actually talked about succession. He said he actually said, i I want to do three years and I want you guys to take over after that. It worked out. and it's He's an entrepreneur with 30 years experience. He went to NKU. When but David was the director, one of our big initiatives was entrepreneurship through acquisition. and What I mean by that is buying a business.
00:17:13
Zac Strobl
and so All the data out there will show like the amount of baby boomers who are retiring. I think most of us are aware of this, but we have all these baby boomer own businesses that do not have a succession plan.
00:17:24
Zac Strobl
And so how can we train people to do that by business? And so that's that's one of our programs. David's still on staff. He's still faculty and he he's a professor of practice and he still runs that program.
00:17:38
Zac Strobl
So I get to keep him. So our assistant director, his name's Jeff Verone,
00:17:40
margalus
Okay.
00:17:44
Zac Strobl
He's been here longer than I have, and he's the best teacher at NKU. Apologies to some of these other great professors, but Jeff is just awesome. and He's very, very good at working with the students. He's one of the most dynamic people you'll ever see in the classroom. He brings like lots of institutional knowledge, plus he's fantastic with students. and so we We really have like a fantastic team.
00:18:10
Zac Strobl
and where we're heading is we're we've always had a focus of entrepreneurship across campus. We actually won an award in 2015 from GCEC Global Consortium Entrepreneurship Centers for that. We're now trying to like put that on steroids. And so like a lot of our, the reason we just revamped our curriculum is to help students who are like, yeah, we want to start a business, but we also want to be able to get jobs.
00:18:38
Zac Strobl
So like we, that was a focal point. It's like, how can we, how can we be the leading talent provider to the startup community? That's a big focal point for us.
00:18:47
margalus
Mm.
00:18:47
Zac Strobl
We've done things like created startup internships and worked with some local governments to do that. And it's, it's small right now, but things are really ramping up in our community, our partner organization, the community of Blue North is they just got funding to open an innovation center in Covington, Kentucky, which is right across the road from Cincinnati.
00:19:06
Zac Strobl
It's the biggest city in Northern Kentucky. And so you're going to see more energy around that. And we are, and you know, things take time and academia.
00:19:17
Zac Strobl
And so and we are planning on how do we
00:19:18
margalus
Yeah.
00:19:21
Zac Strobl
How do we integrate our entrepreneurship classes across campus and work with more professors, more more programs? And those are all things that are in the works right now. And in the meantime, everything like is is going. And so we've run our accelerated program since 2012. So we run that every summer. Recently, we just launched a rural innovation program where we actually go into a rural county in Kentucky and we teach entrepreneurship for five weeks and so and it's once a week so not every single day but uh so we've built a program around that we do a lot with high school students as well we've had a variety of programs kind of under our center for a number of years and so we're strategizing about doing a new program this summer on that we are
00:20:13
Zac Strobl
doing things like instead of you know doing the same old like speaker series where you just bring a bunch of people to campus, we actually go out and do and meet people. So we've had we've had people, like we've done a food tour where we visit a variety of places such as incubator kitchens plus you know local restaurants, stuff like that. We actually, the students get to interact, make food and talk to the owner, the entrepreneurs who started these businesses and and learn from them. so So our whole, we, we have like a big philosophy I learned by doing I know other entrepreneurship centers do as well. Everything we try to do is like very hands on. And so, but that's
00:20:53
Zac Strobl
It's really our focal point is growing what we're doing and like yeah we'll add some new programs and stuff like that but that's really kind of I'd say a shift is like we've we've established like we're pretty good at helping students start businesses. Our accelerator program has been you know ranked it's been a finalist at some various awards.
00:21:12
Zac Strobl
who were So we're going to keep that kind of stuff going. And a big mission for me is making sure that we are helping our students find jobs too. And if we can help the startup community at the same time, that's that is win-win.
00:21:20
margalus
Yeah.
00:21:25
margalus
Right. Now, that's that's great. I like that as like a measure. we you know I talk a lot about how you know entrepreneurship is, is a I think, first and foremost, a mindset, a way of thinking, like many other ways of thinking.
00:21:36
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:21:38
margalus
And if you can teach students that way of thinking and probably some of the skills that you mentioned you know businesses are looking for as well, they will those students will fit in very well and in kind of like that that startup.
00:21:52
margalus
culture. what are what are some of those You mentioned a little bit, but could you talk a little bit more about what those what those skills are?
00:21:53
Zac Strobl
yes yeah
00:22:01
margalus
What does a successful student know coming out of your program that will make them an excellent startup employee or person you know an excellent founder?
00:22:12
Zac Strobl
Yes. So first and foremost, I would say the top skill is problem solving. And literally like any any study you pull up where it's like, what are companies looking for?
00:22:23
Zac Strobl
i It's prompt solving.
00:22:27
margalus
Yeah.
00:22:27
Zac Strobl
And it is so much, it's so prevalent. so we're and And that's really like, I'll tell students all the time, like that's kind of where like any startup company starts is like, are you actually solving a problem for somebody else and creating enough value to where they want to give you money to solve their problems?
00:22:43
Zac Strobl
like that's That's it. And so can you do that for somebody else as well? So definitely problem solving, you know, creative thinking, you know, being able to utilize your entrepreneurial mindset, which is the first class in our program, and think through, you know,
00:23:00
Zac Strobl
How can I solve this problem differently? How can I you know take examples of how someone else solved the problem in a completely different industry and apply it to this industry? you know Using that kind of thinking is really big for us. We want to teach our students to take ownership.
00:23:20
Zac Strobl
And so it's like, hey, if you're if you're the one who's in charge of this, like it's not someone else's fault. It's your fault if it doesn't get done. So we really want them to have like an ownership mindset of, hey, I'm i'm in control of my future.
00:23:28
margalus
Yeah.
00:23:33
Zac Strobl
like Yes, a lot of outside factors are out there, but like it's up to me. to take those steps to really like find a fulfilling career, start a business. But then when I'm working for somebody, like to take responsibility at the job I'm in. So we wanted to learn that you know we want them to be able to critically think.
00:23:55
Zac Strobl
That's another one of those top skills. Because a lot of what we what we do is like kind of reframing their mindsets from what they experienced in K through 12 to, hey, you're not taking a test.
00:24:08
Zac Strobl
We actually don't give tests in our core entrepreneurship classes.
00:24:11
margalus
Oh, wow.
00:24:13
Zac Strobl
it's all It's all like application. So go do this. like go like One of our professors does a $10 challenge where he gives them literally $10 cash and says, go see how much money you can make in two hours.
00:24:18
margalus
Right.
00:24:27
Zac Strobl
And you'd be very surprised. Maybe you've heard of this exercise. But you'd be very surprised with like how much money students can make when they really put their minds to it.
00:24:31
margalus
Yeah.
00:24:38
Zac Strobl
And so it's a a lot of it's A lot of it's kind of rewiring what you've learned already. which so And just teaching them like, hey, it's things are different now.
00:24:50
Zac Strobl
like You gotta take ownership, you gotta think differently. So yeah, those those are a few of like those top skills that we really want to learn.
00:24:56
margalus
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. You know, when we get for the past 10 years, as when I've been teaching, you know, one of the, one of the biggest things I've noticed is students.
00:25:10
margalus
enter college with an expectation that it's going to be the same as their K-12 education. They're going to learn how to take a test.
00:25:17
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:25:19
margalus
They're going to take the test. And then that will be the evaluation of their of their knowledge. but But in higher ed, in entrepreneurship and other places, too, you know it's it's much more than taking a test.
00:25:30
margalus
And there is not necessarily you you know one good answer, one right answer. and And so you know creating space for students to be more comfortable in an uncomfortable situation is is really important. You have to give them an ability to take chances that they didn't know they could take because a lot of their K-12 education probably didn't put them in situations where they they they were taking a lot of chances. They're taking tests instead, right?
00:26:00
margalus
So there's like that that one component to it. You've got to create space for the creative you know the creative mindset. you You have to create space for people to take chances. And then what's interesting to me is it's not quite a on the opposite end of it.
00:26:14
margalus
but But at at some of these centers, you also want them to start thinking about like, okay, what is the end result here? What's the end goal? Are you going to start a business? what are Who are your customers? How much money are you going to put into this? How much money are you going to make? And it gets a little more serious then.
00:26:30
margalus
And what's always been interesting to me is like they're coming in and you have to provide space for this creative mindset, because it's not something that many of them are are used to. And then also, you want there's an expectation that some of them are going to like do something with that right that you're going to get serious again.
00:26:46
margalus
And so there's like this balance of, yes, be creative and explore what you're interested in and kind of live in that uncomfortable space. And then it's like, all right, we got to do something with this now.
00:26:55
Zac Strobl
Yes.
00:26:55
margalus
And and I'm wondering, like, how do you how do you strike that balance with with students who are coming through your center?
00:26:55
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:27:02
Zac Strobl
Yeah, that's a great question. So what comes to mind is also maybe unique about our students, maybe not, but a lot of our students work a lot of hours and and they're very money driven. And when I say money driven, I don't mean in the sense of that's like their sole focus point. It's like they just, they know they need enough money to rent an apartment and provide their living expenses because they usually are coming from families that do not have the extra funds to like fund their college experience, right? So it's like a lot of our students are here for class and then they go to work. And so a lot of times when I'm convincing a student like, hey, move forward with this, or this internship's a really good opportunity, but they're like, wait, I can make,
00:27:50
Zac Strobl
22 an hour at Amazon. I'm like, well, this is going to get you a better job in the future. like and so it it takes This is where the importance of the one-on-one relationships come in.
00:27:56
margalus
Right.
00:28:03
Zac Strobl
So we we right now are able to know every single one of our majors and minors. And so we have lists and as I have fantastic colleagues who care about the students and oh we all want to see them be successful. And so oh one of us has a relationship with one of these students who wants to move forward with some idea. And so at some point we're going to have to convince them like, Hey, you know what? Why don't you do this pitch contest?
00:28:33
Zac Strobl
If you do this pitch contest, you might get money for this. We'll teach you how to pitch. We've had some success with that, both at our state level and even some national competitions.
00:28:44
Zac Strobl
But that kind of gets them in the right direction. They see like, oh, wow, other people think this is a good idea. I actually want money for this. I'll be like, hey, why don't you do the incubator this summer, our accelerator program?
00:28:57
margalus
Yep.
00:28:57
Zac Strobl
And and we and just FYI, we put NKU in the name incubator. and it's
00:29:02
margalus
Yeah, there's a K in it, right? that's So that's one of the unique things.
00:29:05
Zac Strobl
It's kind of funny for us people who understand the difference between an incubator and accelerator. so but yeah so we We get them to do something like that. We get them to apply for another grant. So our our region is fortunate to have an organization that has startup and small business grants. And so they they start to see success. They start to hear from mentors who are saying like, hey, you have a good opportunity here. oh Why don't you do this? And then some of them who who get to like graduation, they're like,
00:29:41
Zac Strobl
Okay. Do I do this full time or, or do I go get a job and this is my side hustle. And, uh, we've been fortunate to see a number of them do it full time. and it's really cool, like getting them to see that they can like, Hey, now's a great time in your life to try entrepreneurship.
00:29:57
Zac Strobl
Because if this, if you are successful, this is what can happen.
00:29:58
margalus
yeah
00:30:01
Zac Strobl
And if you're not. Oh, well, like it's okay.
00:30:04
margalus
Yeah.
00:30:05
Zac Strobl
It's not. It's not going to make or break you. You're so young in your career and and you can get a job like we're in a good area for jobs right now. And so, i you know, just again, it comes down to kind of like walking them through that process. What does this look like? What are the next steps and kind of easing them into it? Because right now they're thinking like, hey, I could do this job and make all this money, but No, you could actually do this and learn so much more. And what's what happens if it's successful? What does this look like for you? And what's the long-term picture here?
00:30:38
margalus
Yeah. You mentioned, you know, the there are several successes that, you know, over the years. What's one that comes to mind? What's one that's like, oh yeah, this one right here, everybody should know about and and what made it a success in your mind?
Success Stories and Student Support Ecosystems
00:30:51
Zac Strobl
Yeah, so we've yeah we've had some you know cool tech startups and and stuff like that, but there's one that I absolutely love. it's It's these two two female founders. They were roommates. They're freshman year in college. And not too long after they were they came to NKU, COVID hit. And so something they decided to do was started, they got into the thrifted and vintage clothing market. And if anyone who works with Gen Z knows, they are into this.
00:31:19
Zac Strobl
and this is a very fast growing segment of the clothing industry. And there's projections that it's going to surpass fast fashion. And so they got really good at it. And they were selling on a platform called Depop. They worked their way up to a top 10%. We started working with them. They told me they were interested in exploring retail. And so I helped them get into one of our local pop-up shops.
00:31:48
Zac Strobl
They had like instant success. They exceeded projections within the first month. And then they said, hey, why don't we do this in a more permanent location? So I was like, okay. And so I connected them with economic developers and they got into a two-year lease off of like, you know, one of the main drags in one of our towns here. And so they've been doing successful there. But we also helped them get in the pitch contest. They were in our incubator program. And then now you're seeing them pop up. They just got into,
00:32:17
Zac Strobl
our local Forbes, 30 Under 30, which was really cool to see them in there. they've been There's a publication called Sensee N.O., which is under American N.O., if you've seen that. They were 525 innovators to watch in our local area. And they they're such a dynamic duo because there are other people doing this.
00:32:39
Zac Strobl
but they're usually by themselves. And because those two work so well as partners, it's just cool seeing them. And they're called Peachy and Vintage, if I didn't say the name.
00:32:48
margalus
Yeah.
00:32:48
Zac Strobl
uh, you can look them up on Instagram or just Google them and their names pop up. But, uh, you know, that's, uh, I think, you know, we've had the companies that do venture capital and get headlines for money they raised and stuff like that. They're, they're either completely self-funded or grant funded. And, it's just really cool seeing them like do something they're passionate about. Cause a lot of, a lot of our students are passionate about,
00:33:14
Zac Strobl
you know, solving the problem with fast fashion. And if you don't know, it's very, you know, fast fashion industry is like, very wasteful. There's a lot of it ends up in landfills, like it's a lot of factory conditions are not good. And so that generation really cares about this and they they want to wear clothes that do not come from those types of companies. And so It's really cool seeing them capitalize on that, kind of owning that in our area and becoming successful.
00:33:41
Zac Strobl
And they're so humble too. like they don't They don't realize how how awesome they are and I have to tell them all the time, like like, no, you all are like seriously awesome and you don't understand. like So they're always shocked when you know they get they get it these awards are or stuff like that, but they they've earned it.
00:33:52
margalus
Yeah.
00:33:59
Zac Strobl
like They've worked very, very hard to accomplish what they have.
00:34:03
margalus
Well, and it sounds like a lot of the, you know, to compliment you a little bit too, it sounds like you that you've developed a kind of ecosystem. You know, you mentioned you connected them with various people who, you know, they were able to secure education through that, that you have your the the incubator fund, you have all of these components that that can help contribute to us so a student's success. and that's that's you know I think really important to have to create that kind of space with the programming that you offer and the networks that you you you develop. and And that's not the only students. You you know you've you mentioned there a lot of student successes. So you've got this ecosystem. One of the things that we but you know I think about a lot is that like a center itself
00:34:50
margalus
It can't just be like a bunch of desks where people can sit. That's just a space, right? It has to be like a place, a place where people feel like you know they can meet other people who are doing interesting things, where they can accelerate their business idea through the ecosystem that you've developed.
00:35:05
margalus
There's like intangibles and tangibles to it that give that that create kind of you know the collaborations between, you said, the the two founders. Yeah, right.
00:35:15
Zac Strobl
yeah Yeah, for that example, yeah, that was two founding students.
00:35:18
margalus
but For that example, I'm wondering, like, are most of your student businesses' collaborative efforts between students? Are are a lot of them is individual?
00:35:28
margalus
how does that What does that look like?
00:35:30
Zac Strobl
Yeah, for us, it's mostly individual.
00:35:32
margalus
Okay, yeah.
00:35:33
Zac Strobl
wherere in and And so the other benefit I have is kind of seeing our major and minor evolve over time as well. and And we have way more business starts coming from students than we have had in years past. And and a lot of people, I don't think they realize like how long it takes. I can't remember if I mentioned this or not, but our our center is turning 25 years old this year. And a lot of this stuff took a long time. And so in it it really, like we when we started our accelerator program,
00:36:08
Zac Strobl
It was 2012 and then we revamped our curriculum in 2016 literally based on things we learned from our accelerator program plus like the lean startup was getting big and A lot of people were adopting like that different methodology of entrepreneurship that like most entrepreneurship programs have now. We were pretty early on in that. And so I think it's because of those changes we made years ago, like over a decade ago, like we're seeing an uptick in business starts. And it just took a while. we have We have a fantastic team. We have professors who really, really care. but
00:36:44
margalus
Hmm.
00:36:45
Zac Strobl
But yeah, it is it is a lot of students doing things by themselves. But when you do get a team ae and there they're able to work with each other and you don't have drama, watch out. and So that's that's really when you start to see some of the more successful ventures take off.
00:37:05
margalus
Yeah, I 100% agree, perhaps no surprise. but but you know yeah I talked with my students about how there are blind spots.
00:37:10
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:37:16
margalus
Everybody has blind spots. And when you work with other people to start a business, You want to find people who complement you in ways where they expose those blind spots and they have you know they ask questions that make you uncomfortable, but in a good way. like They help move the business forward forward a little bit. right hu and And there's no right way to do this, but like you know I imagine just the collisions that happen in your space kind of lead to some some partnerships, things like that. how do you
00:37:48
margalus
How do you give students the, how do you create a place where students want to but collaborate with each other, where they, where they come together and work on things together?
00:37:58
Zac Strobl
Yes, so we are in a situation where a lot of our students, they they live in the region, they come here to go to class, and then they leave. If they hang out here, they might be in a student group.
00:38:08
margalus
Yep.
00:38:12
Zac Strobl
you know they They might be in between classes. They might be working on a a class project or something. But most of them are here and gone. And it's primarily a commuter college for us. And so what we have to do is, yes, we have student groups. We have like we we did a marketplace last year, which got like our students working on that. It was totally student run. It was really cool. like We had over 50 students with businesses or they're selling art, things they made, stuff like that. It was really cool. but I'd say what we've found the most success in is getting them to work in groups in the classroom.
00:38:50
Zac Strobl
Something we added last year, we call it Norse Nexus. We've put them into cross-class, meaning like we've taken all of our core classes, taken all students, and we've mixed them in the groups.
00:39:04
Zac Strobl
And we've required them to meet at least nine times over 12 weeks.
00:39:08
margalus
Hmm. Hmm.
00:39:10
Zac Strobl
And so the reason we're doing that is we want to build a sense of community. And we want them, there's also, you know, studies out there about how loneliness is at an all time high. and we're We were concerned because we weren't seeing students interacting. I think many of us have experience where you walk into a classroom and everyone's on their phones and not talking to each other. And so we've we've done things in the classroom through like activities to get them to talk to each other, but then you know putting them in these groups has kind of forced that collaboration.
00:39:39
Zac Strobl
a and so yeah we So do answer your question. like we had to do like intentional things to get them working with one another. And and it could be as easy as a class activity or it could be more involved like, hey, we're going to put you into a group that you need to meet with and this is 20% of your grade.
00:39:59
margalus
Yeah. are you Out of curiosity, I had a conversation with a couple other faculty members just a couple of days ago, actually, and we were talking about collaboration in the classroom.
Teaching Modern Methodologies and Systems
00:40:08
margalus
And I brought up that that in my classroom, i do I think about that very intentionally, and I'm teaching my students agile processes, and I'm teaching them how to manage sprints and things like that. And the question I got back is, what's agile? What are sprints? And I told them, OK,
00:40:25
margalus
So if you're an academic, there are certain words in academia that when somebody says them, they mean something. It triggers an alarm that goes, okay, I know what this person's talking about. I said, in industry, it's the same thing. If you're an industry and you're interviewing somebody for a job, and you're talking about the processes that you use to get stuff done, and the person's looking at you, and they're going, what's agile? What's a sprint? How do I do a stand up? My question would be, if I'm interviewing that person, can this person even function in my group if they don't know how my group functions?
00:40:54
margalus
together I guess my question is, like are are are you are you doing similar things in in in your space as well, like in in your program? Are students learning these, are they learning these like critical processes? how How are they going about collaborating?
00:41:10
Zac Strobl
Yeah, good question.
00:41:13
Zac Strobl
we we have not I do know what agile and I do know what sprints are, by the way.
00:41:17
margalus
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:17
Zac Strobl
oh oh So one thing I did last year was I when I put them in the groups was like we made them use project management software.
00:41:30
margalus
Yeah.
00:41:30
Zac Strobl
And we trained them on like, hey, you pick which one you want to use. And then I would give them tasks and then I'd watch them Delegate in who's doing what I'd be like, okay.
00:41:43
Zac Strobl
Well now give each other a deadline And so it was like a so these were basic project management principles that many of us know and But they were doing it on a project and they were learning as they did it So to your point like yes, we use some some project management skills.
00:41:46
margalus
Yeah.
00:41:51
margalus
yeah
00:42:01
Zac Strobl
I have not got as far as to do agile but i it's that they would We have graduates who are are in that world and they're adaptable.
00:42:13
Zac Strobl
So so i'm trying we're trying to teach them to be adaptable more than anything else and be lifelong learners so that they can pick up a process wherever it is that they end up.
00:42:13
margalus
Yeah.
00:42:24
margalus
yeah yeah i'm just curious like This was just something that came up a couple days ago and I realized that that I know that in industry or when you're starting a startup, you need to know you need to know these things and you you have to like you don't have to follow them religiously, but there are processes for getting things done.
00:42:45
margalus
And those processes have words attached to them.
00:42:45
Zac Strobl
yeah
00:42:48
Zac Strobl
Yes.
00:42:48
margalus
And if you know those words, then it's kind of like a shibboleth. or you know it's a It's a gateway. it's It's a word that it's a passcode that gets you in through the door. So that's it's just you know curious to me.
00:43:01
Zac Strobl
No, you actually got my wheels turning, because I might adopt some of what you're saying right now. as we Because i I agree with you.
00:43:07
margalus
Yeah.
00:43:10
Zac Strobl
Because I will tell them certain entrepreneurship words that they definitely need to know. I'll be like, hey, write this word down, because you need to know what this word means, even if you just need to Google it later. But to your point, like I probably need to spend some more time looking into startup words that they need to know when they interview as well.
00:43:29
margalus
Right. No, I had a student who, i you know, we'd gone through agile processes. I'd also taught in that class, I taught them how to use Figma to develop prototypes.
00:43:38
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:43:38
margalus
And he was like, I i was looking at job postings, and they have agile and Figma in them. And I was like, that's right. Because, you know, it's like, the you you remember when I told you, trust me, somebody, this will apply in the real world.
00:43:47
Zac Strobl
Yes.
00:43:55
margalus
And you were like, okay, we'll see. it is it's there it's right there in the real world you know so so that was that's just on my mind i guess right now for better or worse the end and this is kind of some of the stuff i think about to as you know washington and lee and and also at the paul is.
00:44:14
margalus
How do I introduce systems both into my curriculum and into the centers that I've i've built and or run here? I inherited the the center here. And how do I introduce systems and and knowledge and frameworks that are bigger than me. So if if I'm teaching a class and the class has, you know, one of its it's its focuses is teaching students collaborative processes, my hope would be the next person who picks up that course is also going to be focusing on those collaborative processes. If I'm building a center
00:44:49
margalus
How do I put processes into place and give them names so that you know the it's the hit by a bus scenario? right If I get hit by a bus, how does this thing sustain itself beyond me?
00:44:59
margalus
How does this core sustain itself? How does this center sustain itself?
00:45:03
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:45:03
margalus
You were talking a little bit about you had a there was a succession plan for when you were getting into the Innovation Center as well. I'm sure it sounds like you guys have a lot of systems in place, but but this like is a long and winding way of me asking you, you know across curriculum, across centers, how do you ensure that there's a through line that that yeah where there's a succession plan, where there's a plan for the continued success of of you know the curriculum and and the space after whatever?
00:45:36
margalus
you know
00:45:37
Zac Strobl
Yeah, yeah, great question. So thinking long term, I think if I look back first, I think we're we have succession because we had great people who started the center. We had great people who have led the center through the years. And they all had like a longer term vision. so i mean Some of those center directors raised endowments that you know are funding our operations. you know Some of those are endowed professorship positions. like Some of them are endowed speaker series. like it's in To do that, you you really have to have a long-term vision. and so that's
00:46:22
Zac Strobl
something, one of my goals is to to do that as well. and And one of the things we want to do is set up a scholarship fund that's endowed for, we do have other scholarship funds, but like to continue on that process.
00:46:35
Zac Strobl
And then I think the biggest thing is people. And so I think we've done a good job of building
00:46:38
margalus
Nice.
00:46:42
Zac Strobl
a culture where everyone who's teaching entrepreneurship is on board with our our way of doing entrepreneurship in the classroom. And so we've we've brought in the right people who have that mindset. We have an advisory board. And so most of our advisory board members are our alumni. And so you know if something happened to me, like They could continue on doing the advisory board because they would be all about the mission.
00:47:14
Zac Strobl
They care. And then we have other faculty who could who could pick up my role and and run with it. But I think eventually we need to hire and grow.
00:47:19
margalus
Yes.
00:47:23
Zac Strobl
And so whoever. we hire, I would love to train them to where if something that happened to me, again, they could they can run this thing. So that to me is like, i think I think first and foremost, it's having the right people. As far as systems, I glad you you mentioned that. Cause that's like one of the things we did was we we adopted like project management practices to to better run our center. I'm exploring automations this year.
00:47:51
margalus
All
00:47:51
Zac Strobl
And so I have a couple of students working on that because the day-to-day type stuff that we do that takes a lot of time that I don't like doing, I want to automate it.
00:47:54
margalus
right.
00:48:02
Zac Strobl
And so so that's something we're working on as well.
00:48:03
margalus
right
00:48:05
Zac Strobl
And then we have a recruiting strategy. where we're trying to take a traditional sales approach to it, where we're actually using a CRM and, you know, paying attention to like, who are these students that we're talking to and how do we, how do we recruit them into fill in the blank program, major, whatever it is. But, and we have another and And with our recruiting in general, like we have a little bit of a legacy set up where I have student ambassadors and you know some ambassadors will lead it.
00:48:37
Zac Strobl
And then then once I graduate, we'll leave. But then like the yeah ones who are under them will come up and be the new leader. so So we're doing that.
00:48:46
margalus
Hmm.
00:48:47
Zac Strobl
We utilize a lot of student workers as well. And so we have to kind of stagger the student workers to where they're not all graduating. And so we have some new ones coming in as well.
00:48:58
Zac Strobl
and so
00:48:59
margalus
yeah Yeah, that's always the trick and and that they pass along the knowledge with as little of your intervention as as as necessary. You know like you you want the the new students to learn from the older students so that you're not teaching the same stuff to all of the employees all of the time.
00:49:18
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:49:19
margalus
It's definitely something i kind I really like that you led with people. I think of of people and culture as in some some ways almost in tension with the creation of systems. you do you watch It's always sunny in Philadelphia by any chance.
00:49:33
Zac Strobl
Yes, I used to watch that quite a bit.
00:49:35
margalus
Okay.
00:49:35
Zac Strobl
you
00:49:35
margalus
the The most recent season ended with an episode where one of the characters, Dennis, gets a and rental electric vehicle and he gets himself locked out because the only way you can open it was is with a phone and he loses his phone and he's on the phone with, you know, he is able to get a new phone eventually.
00:49:55
margalus
And when he goes to get the new phone, like he's talking to a person, but the person's like, well, the system won't let me give you a phone. And then he can't get the, but then he finally gets the phone and then he uses it to call the car company.
00:50:06
margalus
And the person at the car company is like, well, the system won't let me unlock the car. for You know, like, so he's encountering all of these processes and systems that people have put in place to make things easier, to make things faster at at the company level.
00:50:17
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:50:19
margalus
And he's having this terrible personal experience. Like it's bad. It creates bad culture in some ways too. And I often think about that because it's like, you know How do you develop a a culture of high trust? Well, the worst way to do that is by like like creating 50 rules about how to do things and like automating the whole you know the whole enchilada. how How do you go about thinking about like where the automations and the processes need to come in place and and where we need to think about people and culture a little bit more?
00:50:50
Zac Strobl
Yeah, a lot of what I want to automate is because those rules are in place.
00:50:53
margalus
Yeah.
00:50:54
Zac Strobl
Not from almost not from us, but just working in a large organization.
00:50:57
margalus
Right, right.
00:51:01
Zac Strobl
That's buts part of the part of the deal. But I'm glad we have oversight. I'll say that.
00:51:06
margalus
Yeah.
00:51:07
Zac Strobl
So yeah, that's a great question. I've never personally been the type to create a bunch of rules, probably because I always don't like following rules.
00:51:20
Zac Strobl
and sha can so So I probably need someone who who actually does more of that.
00:51:21
margalus
Yeah. Right.
00:51:27
Zac Strobl
But i yeah, i
00:51:28
margalus
Yeah.
00:51:31
Zac Strobl
I steer towards less control, more more empowerment. And so that's usually like, especially working with student workers and students in my own classroom, I give them direction.
00:51:45
Zac Strobl
Get them started. And then I'm like, hey, come talk to me when you're coming through problems, when you're encountering problems. And they do. So that's we've we used to run a program where we did projects for local businesses and we would charge them for it. And I've gotten like really, really good feedback from the clients. And they they're always blown away by what our students are able to accomplish.
00:52:09
Zac Strobl
And it's really like they they figure it out. I mean, that's I've personally found like the less I tell them to a degree, the more successful they usually are because they they have to like think through everything. And then I'll tell them, once they make some progress, I'll give them feedback then. but that's Really something I've kind of learned with students, oh especially, is like you you can't tell them too much. Because if you just think of like what you're able to remember, it you're not going to remember every single detail. So I try to do less hand holding, more empowerment, more like, hey, you can do this. And then come to me when you have a problem, and that's and we'll work through it.
00:52:55
margalus
That's that's in in many ways, in contrast, at least to how academia used to work. Certainly how academia works and in a lot of of you know corners still, which is I'm the professor with all of the answers. I'm going to stand up here and I'm going to give you all of the answers. And then you're going to go apply those answers, because this is what I've specialized in for 30 years or something like that.
00:53:16
margalus
My students, tell me I've heard this over and over from different students at different universities now. if They feel like I'm throwing them in the deep end. and In some ways I am. I'm like, you know here's the sandbox. Here are your constraints. I'm going to give you a little lecture, a little information to get you started. But the way that you navigate this problem isn't going to be be the same way that I navigate this problem or that anybody else is.
00:53:39
margalus
And the best way to learn is just by doing. right And then and then right we'll we'll come back and we'll bring the class together and we'll talk and reflect on the challenges we faced and we can learn from each other.
00:53:42
Zac Strobl
Yes.
00:53:51
margalus
But I'm going to throw you in that deep end and we're going to see how you do. And I'm a lifeguard, so I'll jump in if you're if you're drowning. But other than that, like you know buckle up.
00:53:58
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
00:54:00
margalus
Here we go. you do I wonder if you have any you know i I think often of conversations I've had you know in the past decade plus, and and and some some questions are are like, well, that's not how we teach, right? Or that's not how we, we do do you hear, like, how does that how do you navigate that within academia, this kind of somewhat different approach to to to learning effectively?
00:54:27
Zac Strobl
Yeah, we we hire good people. no seen so
00:54:29
margalus
Yeah. Back to the good people. I love it.
00:54:33
Zac Strobl
Yeah, it's islam well, it's I mean, we we've all especially because of space wearing like a lot of us have worked with student entrepreneurs.
00:54:33
margalus
Yeah.
00:54:40
Zac Strobl
A lot of us have worked with student workers. and And you know that like, the ones who are coachable are the ones that you probably enjoy working with the most, right?
00:54:51
Zac Strobl
Because they're actually listening to what you're saying. And so we Whenever we had the opportunity to hire an entrepreneurship faculty member, we were very keen on, like is this person a good teacher? are they Is there evidence that this person like does a good job working with and interacting with students? How do they interact with us through the interview process as well? So that's we've been very, very, very fortunate
00:55:20
Zac Strobl
oh
00:55:20
margalus
Hmm.
00:55:22
Zac Strobl
to have faculty who have that same mindset of like, hey, I don't have all the answers. I've made plenty of mistakes. I still make tons of mistakes. like I'm going to be upfront about that with my students.
00:55:32
margalus
Yeah.
00:55:34
Zac Strobl
like and And so, yes, i I have more life experience, and I've i've done some things. but like And I'll help you think through it. But you're going to have to, like you said, like you're going to have to jump off into the deep end and and figure stuff out on your own.
Empowering Student Independence and Problem-Solving
00:55:51
Zac Strobl
I'm here to help you, but you're gonna have to go do some stuff. So all of our faculty fortunately have that same approach.
00:56:00
margalus
Interesting. the That's good to hear. i am curious what I'm curious what that what you've learned from that. In other words, right we we all make mistakes. We're all going to screw up. But then afterwards, one of the things we do you know is is correct.
00:56:18
margalus
right so I throw my students in the deep end. I realize, oh, I should have told them this. Or, oh, you know we need this this particular framework or tool in place so that this particular problem doesn't doesn't happen again. what are What are some things that you've you've seen as you've as you've been engaging kind of in this more creative process of teaching that have informed like the the next go around. What are some things you've learned from from you know this this process that that that you're applying to, I guess, the classroom, your your center, you know any of all the above?
00:56:55
Zac Strobl
Yeah, so if we if we kind of think of like through classroom projects and and we've, like I said, we've done similar projects, but we've charged people for them, which like has a whole other level of expectations from the companies.
00:57:10
Zac Strobl
But I think something I learned early on is like, be crystal clear on expectations and say like, this is what I, to the students, this is what I expect you to achieve.
00:57:17
margalus
Mm.
00:57:24
Zac Strobl
This is the end goal. here's in And not just only like upfront, but like remind them reminding them this is what you need to achieve. And so having an outline of this, this, this, this, and this, like these are your main points. to the Especially when we work with clients, I will do a whole project plan. Nothing over the top, but definitely a statement of work that says,
00:57:52
Zac Strobl
This is what we're doing. This is what you get. And these will be the results and be here on this date and this date. And they always love it. oh And so they're always, there're two i we've, because I've learned the hard way through running other programs that like what not to do.
00:58:01
margalus
Yeah.
00:58:12
Zac Strobl
I figured out like how to set that those expectations up front. So yeah, that that's really what I think my biggest lesson learned is like making sure everyone understands what we're trying to achieve up front on both sides before moving forward is is critical.
00:58:31
margalus
Yeah, that's interesting. So have you heard of Goodart's Law by any
Addressing Educational Challenges and Learning Focus
00:58:35
margalus
chance?
00:58:35
Zac Strobl
I have not.
00:58:36
margalus
Goodart's Law is that the measure is not should not become the target.
00:58:36
Zac Strobl
aye
00:58:41
margalus
And what it means is you can measure things like like a rubric is a measurement tool. right And it's actually a targeting tool as well.
00:58:52
margalus
Students will often ask me in my class, like, not only do I want you to give me what the end result is going to be, I want you to tell me how many points are assigned to each of these things so that I can know how I'm going to be graded. Then it becomes a target for them because what they do is they game the system.
00:59:08
margalus
They know that they have to do these things in order to get a grade. And so they check the boxes, right? And now the measurement has become target.
00:59:14
Zac Strobl
yeah
00:59:15
margalus
And and the the reason for the measure existing no longer matters. I want you to learn this, this, this, and this becomes I will demonstrate my learning by following exactly what this rubric says to get the points that I want.
00:59:28
margalus
Does that kind of make sense a little bit?
00:59:31
Zac Strobl
It sure does, yes.
00:59:31
margalus
Yeah. This is a problem i I see. It's not just in entrepreneurship, but but particularly in entrepreneurship where you're asking the students to like operate in an uncertain space. they want to know exactly how much they want They're trying to edge you back towards certainty.
00:59:46
margalus
They're trying to get you back towards like, how do I get the good grade?
00:59:47
Zac Strobl
like
00:59:50
margalus
I don't really care about the other stuff. you know I don't know what my question is here, to be honest. is but is it yeah what
00:59:58
Zac Strobl
So yeah, I just looked up oh i just look up exactly what you're talking about. So I know exactly what you're asking.
01:00:04
margalus
Yeah.
01:00:08
Zac Strobl
I think because I have the luxury of teaching our students later on and my other my colleagues will do more of like the culture building, like the reframing of mindset and expectations.
01:00:19
margalus
yeah
01:00:23
Zac Strobl
i I do get those students who who want search and tee. They like things being outlined. I had a student the other day saying like, had where's your point system?
01:00:34
Zac Strobl
I don't see it. I'm like, I'll tell you later.
01:00:38
margalus
yeah Yeah, right.
01:00:39
Zac Strobl
taking hawk It's like, don't worry, it's coming.
01:00:42
margalus
Yeah.
01:00:43
Zac Strobl
So honestly, there's there's been times where I tell them like, I don't care what your grades gotta be. Like i I'm not, if if all you wanna do is get an A in this class, like you you're really in the wrong place. oh and And yeah, your grades going to reflect effort and I'm primarily gonna grade you on your own effort. And it's, so I'm very upfront about that. I will tell them like, look, if you just wanna get an A on this project, this is what you gotta do. But at the same time, like I'm very intentional about
01:01:19
Zac Strobl
letting them know what the big picture is. And the big picture is you are learning how to do this so that it helps you in your career, whether you start a business or work for somebody else. And this is what your employer would expect. This is what your clients would expect. And this teaches you that. Even something as simple as like, hey, I want you to write in this style of writing and here's why. And I explained to him like, what is the bigger picture here? So I think,
01:01:47
Zac Strobl
I think for those students who who do want to know like what gets me an A, like I'm intentionally telling them, no, no, no, don't worry about that. What does this get you after you leave here? That's what I want you to worry about.
01:02:03
margalus
Yeah, I think it probably comes along with, you know, yeah they're paying a tuition and they're worried about like the return on value and how do they get the A and get the credential so that they can go get the job or something like that, right?
01:02:17
margalus
And and the investment is is probably on that the investment into their education is probably on their mind.
01:02:17
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
01:02:23
margalus
But like it it is very it does introduce an interesting challenge as you know an educator and as a a center director, which is, like how do you know as we've been talking about, how do we create that space, right?
01:02:37
Zac Strobl
yeah
01:02:40
margalus
We're getting at the top of the hour here. what are What are other challenges that you see coming up? you know not just not Not with your center necessarily and specific, but just for for you know these entrepreneurship ecosystems, these innovation ecosystems in academia across the country, what should people be focused on or thinking about?
01:03:01
Zac Strobl
That's a good question.
01:03:05
Zac Strobl
So something that's, I mean, a hot topic in our region is the is workforce numbers. You know, we're we're approaching, I mean, we're already there, is like we have all these baby boomers retiring. We have less young people that take their roles.
01:03:23
Zac Strobl
So I really think there's there's a huge opportunity in entrepreneurship or acquisition. I think there's a huge opportunity in the trades. So a lot of, again, a lot of focal point like throughout my career has been you know venture-backed businesses. I think you're going to see more of like, oh crap, we don't have plumbers, like, you know, intended, right?
01:03:50
Zac Strobl
so So how do we solve the problems for like what some would call like a boring business?
01:03:50
margalus
Right.
Future Opportunities in Trades and Technology
01:04:00
margalus
Right.
01:04:00
Zac Strobl
So that's where I foresee a bit of a shift in focus. And I'm not saying let's,
01:04:11
Zac Strobl
let's unhitch from VC or anything like that. I'm i'm saying like there' there's gonna be such a need in the trades that I just foresee like more economic emphasis and workforce emphasis going into this and with it is going to come more businesses for sale and that's gonna be a huge opportunity.
01:04:34
margalus
Yeah, 100%. I had a conversation with an alum who's on my board just last week about this. And she's actually focused on kind of the the other end of that problem, which is that you know we need to acquire these businesses. But if you're a lot of the people who who are running these service businesses,
01:04:53
margalus
They might not know what a beta is. They might not know like how to turn the maximum profit on selling their business because they haven't operated it like as as a serious business. for most of the you know There are a lot of people who own their own plumbing services, but they're charging $50 an hour where they could charge 150. Things like that is is almost kind of on the this the second end of that, which is like how do we help people retire comfortably by thinking about maximizing their business value as well.
01:05:27
Zac Strobl
Yeah. And Jason, we've made it a whole hour without even mentioning AI.
01:05:28
margalus
yeah
01:05:31
margalus
Oh God, I know, right?
01:05:32
Zac Strobl
I don't know how we did that. significant say oh
01:05:36
margalus
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:37
Zac Strobl
And i I think, you know, as we, yeah and we, of course, we we are studying AI, we are implementing it in our classrooms, we're implementing our programs, all that kind of stuff.
01:05:48
Zac Strobl
So I don't want to, I don't want to people, people think like we're out of the loop on this, we're not.
01:05:53
margalus
yeah
01:05:53
Zac Strobl
But I think to what you're saying, like, How do you take AI and improve this business model? like and Like, how can you have better customer service?
01:05:59
margalus
Right.
01:06:02
Zac Strobl
How can you operate more efficiently and that kind of stuff? And and so it's, yeah, I think that's part of it as well. Like what your alum was saying, you can use that technology and use it for that business and market it better and run the books better and and all these kinds of things to make it a more successful business.
01:06:22
margalus
Yeah, yeah, that that is surprising. In part that we haven't talked about our official intelligence there's a whole conversation that could be had there about how students use it in the classroom as well, often to their own detriment, but
01:06:27
Zac Strobl
yeah
01:06:32
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
01:06:36
Zac Strobl
Yes.
01:06:36
margalus
That's like a whole it's a whole two-hour conversation in a podcast alone, my lord.
01:06:37
Zac Strobl
yeah i've seen
01:06:40
Zac Strobl
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:42
margalus
just you know it's it's like I know your business model canvas was generated by AI. this is not you know Can you tell me about this now?
01:06:48
Zac Strobl
yeah
01:06:50
margalus
No. i really so How do you understand your market segments then if you don't you haven't done the research? yeah blah blah buth you know Anyways, we could spend so much time on that. But like I said, another another time maybe.
01:07:06
margalus
but it where're where can people I usually end with this question.
Connecting and Staying Updated
01:07:10
margalus
What are you excited about? Where can people find you? What do you want people to know about that you're doing? How can we get the word out about about your work?
01:07:19
Zac Strobl
Yeah, two places. So one is connect with me directly on LinkedIn. My name is Zach Storables, E-A-C-S-T-R-O-B-L. But then we have a Instagram page that we use. The the primary audience is for students, but it's at NKU.CIE, so Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship. We post a lot on there about things that we're doing. And so it's again again, this is like a, we're trying to showcase to students like, hey, these are opportunities, these are success stories, these are your professors, they're normal people, they're not
01:07:59
Zac Strobl
figureheads, like you know stuff like that. right so it's You can see what we're doing. it's it's I tell our our board and some of our like administrators, like hey, if you want to see what we're doing, like go on there.
01:08:11
Zac Strobl
But yeah, that that is going on. What am I excited for? I was real pumped about the start of semester. As we record this, this is our first week of classes. And I just completely revamped one of my classes. It's called the Innovation Lab. And I'm going to require students to go make money.
01:08:34
margalus
nice
01:08:34
Zac Strobl
And that's going to have challenges. I know it, but I don't care. basically So I'm going to face those challenges as it comes up.
01:08:38
margalus
i
01:08:42
Zac Strobl
And that's the first time we've ever done that. It's an experiment. It could go it could go wrong. I'll adapt if we need to. But I'm really excited to see that.
01:08:52
Zac Strobl
I made them, they're submitting what they want to work on this semester right now, like by Sunday.
01:08:56
margalus
Nice.
01:08:59
Zac Strobl
And so I'm really kind of curious to see how this goes.
01:09:00
margalus
Nice Oh man, okay, we should talk about this after this is over because we're doing something similar right now at W and&L and I have similar kind of like, I hope this works.
01:09:10
Zac Strobl
Interesting. Yeah.
01:09:15
margalus
i you know we'll We'll see how it goes, but it does.
01:09:15
Zac Strobl
yeah
01:09:19
margalus
That's that's super cool. I could talk all day. but well we We'll talk at you know after this maybe. but Hey, man, I appreciate I appreciate your time, especially this is the first week. Holy cow. OK, so you're you're like in the thick of it and you took the time to do this.
01:09:32
margalus
Zach, I appreciate.
01:09:33
Zac Strobl
Yeah.
01:09:33
margalus
Appreciate you giving me the time and.
01:09:34
Zac Strobl
new I work throughout the summer, so I was i was ready.
01:09:38
margalus
OK.
01:09:38
Zac Strobl
so i was ready to go
01:09:41
margalus
Good, good, good, good. All right. Well, Zach, thanks so much. And I think people will get a lot out of this interview. Appreciate it.
01:09:48
Zac Strobl
thank you Thanks for what you're doing, Jason. I'm really excited to listen to this podcast, especially as these episodes are coming out.
01:09:54
margalus
Yeah, cool.