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TSW* S1E5 - Ben Worth - Mountain Gateway Community College
28 Plays2 months ago
In this engaging episode, we explore the evolving landscape of community college education with Dr. Ben Worth, Vice President of Academic Affairs at Mountain Gateway Community College. Dr. Worth shares his extensive experience in higher education administration, offering insights into the unique challenges and opportunities faced by community colleges today. Key topics discussed include:
- The role of community colleges in providing accessible education
- Innovative approaches to curriculum development and student engagement
- The impact of lab schools and state grants on educational opportunities
- Strategies for fostering academic excellence and student success
- The importance of community partnerships and collaboration
Dr. Worth provides a comprehensive overview of the initiatives at Mountain Gateway Community College, highlighting efforts to enhance educational outcomes and prepare students for future careers. This episode offers valuable perspectives for educators, administrators, and anyone interested in the transformative power of community colleges in shaping the future of education.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hit record. And I guess we're going to get started.
Introducing Ben Worth and His Role
00:00:04
Speaker
So I am here. I'm sitting here in Lexington, Virginia, sitting across from Ben Worth, who is the Vice President of Academic Affairs for Mountain Gateway Community College. That's exactly right. And also we cycle together. So we've got that in common and as well.
Overview of Mountain Gateway Community College's Tech School Initiative
00:00:20
Speaker
We do.
00:00:21
Speaker
and and And I guess full disclosure for this podcast, I also serve in an advisory capacity on the Mountain Gateway Community College Tech School, which is a lot of what we're going to be talking about today, which is but one of Ben's big initiatives that that he started. How many years ago did that get started? It's about two years in the in the offing right now. We've gone through a fairly lengthy approval process. yeah So just real quickly as some background, Mountain Gateway serves Rockbridge County where we currently are. We have some of the neighboring counties. We're in southwestern Virginia, close to the West Virginia border, a very rural area.
Challenges and Approval Process for the Tech School
00:00:57
Speaker
And what we're trying to build up is a laboratory school serving high school students here in the service area, providing them with
00:01:06
Speaker
IT t training in areas like cybersecurity, cloud computing, and technical support. All right. Well, it's a very exciting initiative. i'm um'm you know As it grows, I'm excited to see that. And it's I'm sure it'll come with a lot of lot of challenges and a lot of navigation that that have that you've you've worked your way through. And that's not something everybody has the the wherewithal to to keep pushing for.
00:01:28
Speaker
Yes, so it definitely has been a process of sort of hurry up and wait and learn more about the application process because it is a new project for the state of Virginia. Yeah. So Ben, before we get started, I gave you a brief introduction. Is there anything else background wise or or otherwise that you want to let folks know about about you, about about your school? No, we're a comprehensive community college. We're small. So we have a transfer mission. We're helping students go to four-year universities. We have a strong career and technical mission. So we're putting out nurses and welders and electricians and everything from commercial driver's license to information technology experts.
00:02:06
Speaker
Okay, so let's let's let's jump right into it then and talk a little bit about but the but your new initiative,
Mission and Goals of the Laboratory School
00:02:13
Speaker
right? And, you know, first question i've asked I've been asking folks is if you could describe, I guess, your role within this initiative. And and in addition to that, your center's, I'm going to call it a center because you're calling it a primary mission and and goals. Sure.
00:02:30
Speaker
So I'm the chief academic officer for the college. Several years ago, the as an initiative from our governor, a proposal was out for the establishment of laboratory schools across the Commonwealth. These are sort of in the tradition of laboratory schools, John Dewey and what happened at the University of Chicago. This one is a little different in that they were, the vision was a partnership of primarily institutions of higher learning and In our case, we did a partnership with other K-12 entities that we serve. So as opposed to creating a separate school system sort of in competition with the K-12 here in our area, we work closely with them to develop something that would meet some of their needs.
Program Benefits and Community Impact
00:03:13
Speaker
All of our high schools and all of our technical education centers have IT programs, but many struggle, particularly in rural areas, to provide the kind of IT t training that's really top notch. So while we have IT t training, we were our goal is to bring it really to the next level. So the plan for this program is Again, pitch to high school students primarily starting in their sophomore year and leading to industry recognized certifications. So they come to our program and then they can sit for a Cisco certification in cybersecurity and networking and then with that certification in place could actually go right to work.
00:03:51
Speaker
and The vision for the program is even to have high school seniors doing internships, working with local businesses so they can get some actual hands-on experience before they leave high school.
00:04:03
Speaker
you You mentioned something that that I want to circle back to already. And for some context, a lot of these interviews that I've been doing so far are with folks who have been in pretty urban areas, so Portland, Chicago, and the like. And you mentioned a struggle with IT t training, particularly in rural areas. do Can you give me some more context on that or why that's the case? Yeah, sure. So Rockbridge County is Interesting geographically, we have two interstates running through here, but we're the nearest airport is an hour away. Largest you know large metropolitan area like Washington, DC is two plus hours away and finding locally local experts in areas like it, but.
00:04:45
Speaker
and it really across higher education, whether I'm looking for someone to teach biology or chemistry, it it is a challenge. So I've worked in other states where I had local universities putting out master's prepared and
Development and Naming of MG Tech
00:04:58
Speaker
doctoral prepared students, and those institutions are an hour or two away from where I live. So I don't have that population base to turn to that has those skill sets.
00:05:08
Speaker
They're here, but it's it's it's a challenge to get them to come work for me, and partly it's because of the job market. They can make a lot more money in the private sector than they can make doing working in education. OK, so so going forward, I'm going to call what I was saying the center MG tech. So for folks who you know who are listening, they'll be able to kind of you know figure that out, hopefully. But you know the next question I want to ask and I want to hear a little bit more about is some of the the challenges. And I'm sure you've got some unique ones that you faced.
00:05:38
Speaker
when you were i think let's but Even before the funding, and if you could start there and then we can work our way through it, some of the challenges you faced in establishing MG Tech? Sure. Well, one piece is that there was an application that was required. And you know for other people opening you know doing entrepreneurship or opening maker spaces, that that funding source is always can't can always be a challenge. So whether they're applying for grants or what have you,
00:06:06
Speaker
That was my challenge was there was a lengthy application process that went through a large state agency. This was the Virginia Department of Education and because this was a new initiative even some of the rules were changing along in in the process. So there would be an initial application that was provided. We would then.
00:06:25
Speaker
then that application will get updated. We get additional information about what the expectations were or what the grading criteria were for on the grant application. So think of applying for a grant with the people providing the grant, not fully sure what they were giving you, and changing some of the grant requirements midway through the application process. And and nothing against the Department of Education. This was a new initiative and quite a challenge of getting this funding out and getting those applicants out there. So we started a process with applying for a planning grant, which we received. And it was a full year of back and forth submitting drafts of our application until we finally were approved in March of this past year.
00:07:13
Speaker
How many people you know you're you've got a large stakeholder base it sounds like even early on how many people are we talking about and how are you navigating kind of those those different. Motivations let's say well the core group doing the application were just three people was myself I had an IT faculty member.
00:07:32
Speaker
And then with some funding that we were provided by the Department of Education, we were able to hire a planning grant, a grant writer, essentially. And we got very fortunate. There was an individual locally who had just left active service in the military, had an IT background, and was able to pick up to step in and give us some assistance in that area. So we're very lucky to to have had him in that capacity serving on the grant. So we had three people, two two of whom had other significant job responsibilities.
00:08:01
Speaker
to do the writing. Right. And then on the other end of it you've got folks at the Department of Education who are reviewing this process and who are changing some of their requirements to help. or to you know whatever but How many people are we talking about there? Do you even know? or you know what's that Oh, well, I mean, ultimately, we were approved by the full board of a Board of Education. So there are a dozen members on the board, but there were about four members that were on a committee specifically for lab schools. There was some of the funding that spun up the lab school program did provide a consultant to the system or to rather the Department of Education. And we did get access to some of those resources as well. Okay, so you get your planning grants and that's that's the initial challenger hurdle and then what happens? So we get our planning grant and see we applied for that in the fall and then the following the end of that fall as we move into January we get our planning grant director hired
Collaboration with Local Educators and Stakeholders
00:08:59
Speaker
and then we had a fairly short timeline to
00:09:04
Speaker
go through a a lengthy application and our target goal was submitting it at the end of the summer. And we actually met that goal. And and so that fall period was a time of meeting with some of our stakeholders. So we visited with our K-12 colleagues, primarily with principals, technical education center directors. We visited some other technical education centers in Virginia.
00:09:28
Speaker
A good example is a a a little bit further north of the valley, a technical education center that has a an existing IT program, so we can kind of look at how that program was set up. One of our technical education centers does some really good work in cybersecurity, so we met with that team. That helped inform the application we submitted, so we turned that application and in at the end of a Summer and we actually pretty much met our deadline. Our our goal was June 30th. I think we got it turned in the middle of middle of July and then it went through a lengthy feedback from the committee we would then of Submit revisions and that process went on all through the fall and and into the spring, so
Focus on Industry Certifications and Short-Term Training
00:10:18
Speaker
we submitted fall of 2023, or summer of 2023, got the planning grant 2022, submitted fall of twenty summer of 2023, working on revisions fall of 2023, and that process carried into 2024, and the final approval didn't play take place until March 28th of 2024.
00:10:39
Speaker
So you mentioned you visited other other tech centers, and I kind of want to synthesize two things here. So number one, we're talking about a rural area here that has its own unique hurdle. not I don't want to say hurdles or challenges, but its own unique flavor, let's say.
00:10:56
Speaker
And these technical centers are in other places that maybe have a different kind of flavor or constituent base or something like that as well Maybe not don I don't know but but if if if they are different like Every place is a little bit different and I'm wondering as you're going around to like these other centers to see what they're doing how you take take their model and Transport that here given your your different user base Sure. Well, these were other These are also rural counties, so one is near Waynesboro. And by technical education centers, I'm referring to a K-12 education center that is providing
00:11:36
Speaker
Most counties, at least larger ones, will have a designated location that's doing a lot of career and technical education. So they'll have nursing programs, they'll have electronics programs. IT t is a very common program in these in these areas as well. So those are those are helpful ones to look at. One piece that we really wanted to set our program apart is to focus on, in terms of of outcomes, students earning certifications because they really, in our mind, serve as a kind of a benchmark. we know We'll know if we're being successful. as Students can actually earn these these certifications. that was not We're not creating the test. That test, in a sense, already exists out there.
00:12:14
Speaker
Okay, what what what what drove that that objective of of of pursuing certifications?
Addressing Job Market Demands through Upskilling
00:12:21
Speaker
That really has been a push in community colleges for the last 10 or 20 years, if not more. And there's been a huge growth in the workforce side of the community colleges, which is short-term training, getting people out to work. And you see that both in rural community colleges like mine, but also in in more in more urban areas as well.
00:12:42
Speaker
And those workforce programs are increasingly focused on some kind of certification that serves as really a gateway into a job. In other words, if someone's going to be a certified nurse aide, they have to hold that certified nurse aide certification and and won't be able to work in that industry unless they do.
00:13:01
Speaker
so This is part of kind of what you're seeing maybe in the job market where there's a higher demand for certain kinds of labor. is is there any you know as i've as As I've done some you know consulting in these spaces, there's also kind of a focus on upskilling or re-skilling. Does that play into it at all as well? Yeah, absolutely. absolutely In that that language, you hear a lot in community colleges as well.
00:13:24
Speaker
So we serve a lot of adult learners, people who have been in one career, they're switching to a new career, and they need to pick up some skills in order to do that. And sometimes there it's a major career shift where they are taking college general education classes so they can go to med school. I've worked for students in that direction, but it could be as simple as they're transitioning it like into the IT market and need to pick up some certifications in order to find employment.
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's got to be a big, you know, put as as we talk about like job replacement with technology, AI is the big thing right now, but it's technology moves so fast, you know, who knows what that will be in a couple of years. There's always the the question of like, how do people find these programs and get into them? Because of course, there are a lot of folks who who don't find them. So, and I guess this is kind of a lead into my next question. So you've got your You've got your your your funding and congratulations and you're set up there, but now you've got like these these challenges that I'm sure you're looking into the future on.
Strategies for Awareness and Outreach
00:14:22
Speaker
I'm guessing some of it's like how do you make people aware of these programs, whether they're upskilling, reskilling, or if they're they're high school you know graduating high school students.
00:14:30
Speaker
What are some challenges that you're looking at? no Well, that's a very good point, which is creating awareness of our programming, whether it's you know specifically for this lab school or the kinds of programming community colleges offer. When you look at the budget of a public community college, it's typically tied up in personnel, and our competitors in the proprietary market put a lot more of their funding into advertising. And so we are improving and in that game and doing more to help spread the good word of what we're able to provide at a much lower cost often than than the our competitors in the and the private sector, I think in proprietary schools.
00:15:10
Speaker
And we certainly built that into the budget for MG Tech. So there is a marketing budget that's in there. Those dollars are going to help with recruitment and outreach to primarily the students that we'll be serving. But we want to start that awareness very early on, even in middle school. So there's gonna there's funding for some summer camps in IT. tve My college has run some cybersecurity summer camps, and that's a way to generate interest in those programs.
00:15:36
Speaker
working with afterschool programs, serving middle school students to make them aware of job opportunities or just the the the opportunity to join something like MG Tech. You know, kids play on their phones and video games all the time, but teaching them that there are real jobs that are available in those areas is is something we want to really to do a better job of of getting that word out. And so we built funding in there to help help with with marketing. And some of that will be putting people in schools, working with the staff that we have to get to get actually out into the high schools. But it's not just our public K-12. Our program's open to homeschooled students and
00:16:19
Speaker
really any anyone in our service area. So we want to also get the word out through you know public media channels and and other ways as well. So it's interesting. So you mentioned you know one component, which is you know just raising awareness and and and finding those students where they're at. And then you kind of alluded to another component, which is that you know you're your audience, if you will, is kind of already inclined towards certain kinds of you know technology and games and things like that.
00:16:49
Speaker
yeah Are you using those those kinds of interests as as levers or as leverage to to to to kind of as a hook to to bring them in then? Yeah, that's certainly part of the plan. So the summer camps that we run are very much you know meant are kind of flashy, and they've got some fun components in it. So we don't have a true gaming focus for our our our college, but we definitely want to try to bring in some of the fun parts of yeah Playing with video games and and things like that to get student interest, right? Okay. Okay. So so looking forward you've you know, you're you're looking at all sorts of of you know Raising awareness and things like that. Are there any other
Overcoming Distance and Remote Learning Challenges
00:17:31
Speaker
kinds of you know and maybe this is just the way I think which is like what are the things that I'm missing or you know the Donald Rumsfeld the known knowns and the unknown knowns and all that I'm always worried about the unknown unknowns these are the things that keep me awake you know what are what are the what are some of the things on your roadmap that that you you think you're gonna need to be tackling over the next several years the unknown unknowns are that all those are impossible those are possible so yeah so let's talk about the unknown knowns the unknown unknowns well uh you know one piece of this we are and and we're still in the development phase so this program will launch fall of 25 so so we're right at the place where we
00:18:12
Speaker
of finish we're We're moving into a phase where we're heavily focused on recruitment, but there's also some infrastructure work that needs to happen in terms of establishing policies, procedures, and coming up with some just the logistics of getting the students engaged in the program. So so to to to your question, we have to stand up a testing center because students will have to sit for these certification exams. We want it to provide that locally if we were in a large urban area, there would be a public testing center that would be right down the street. Ours isn't. It's an hour away, so we want to create one that will be on our campus so that students can sit for the certification exams. I used to administer a Pearson View Testing Center. There are a number of hurdles that are required getting one of those up and running, so that's out there.
00:18:59
Speaker
the The students will have the opportunity to come to campus face-to-face, sit next to an instructor and do their work, but again, we're a we have a large geographic area that we serve, and getting students from some of our more remote high schools is gonna be a challenge. They're gonna be traveling 45 minutes or more to get to campus, so we are gonna provide some flexible delivery of instruction so students can stay back at their campus and zoom in.
00:19:24
Speaker
to a class using yeah yeah any kind of teleconferencing software. We have the ability for students who miss a class to be able to go back to content that's recorded and available for them to to see, but we want this to be engaging and interactive and we want those kids to actually be part of a program where they they are connected to other students across a large area. you know This school in many ways is gonna function like a magnet program would if you were in a larger school district in a more urban area. right right And we're going to be creating that kind of feel, but it's going to be over a much larger geographic area. And so that's those are going to be some of the challenges I know that we're going to be looking at. how can we
00:20:08
Speaker
keep all the how can we create a real sense of identity with the school so they these kids feel like they're part of something how can we ensure that they're really doing good learning that if they're out there in in zoom land they're not getting getting lost and we certainly saw that during the pandemic right lots of kids that were And it very hurriedly rushed online without a lot of thought and development into what that online experience was to be. And it and didn't work well for many students. So we we don't want that. We want to make sure we got all our ducks in a row and all our little pieces in place so that when students are involved in our program, it's a really quality experience for them. and So this is like a blended learning approach.
00:20:46
Speaker
so And I know there's going to be a there's going to be a director for for this center. So this question is is for you, but it'll also be for this new director, I'm sure, at some point, which is is talking about kind of two of my favorite topics, strategy
Adapting Curriculum to Future IT Industry Changes
00:21:03
Speaker
and innovation. I like strategy. I've always thought of strategy as like the It's the middle between where your values are and where the tactics are. Strategies come right after values, and they drive the tactics that come after that, right? And so I've always found it fascinating because if you pick the right strategy, it sets the velocity, the the direction, and the speed that you go. And then innovation, you know very interesting because it's like the proximate possible. You don't want to think when you're thinking of innovation 10 years in the future all the time. You can think 10 years in the future, but the proximate possible is really kind of where the rubber
00:21:35
Speaker
Hits the road and and you know as you're looking at some of these not just these challenges, but kind of your your roadmap What do you think will be some of your strategic approaches in in in driving? You know a sense of of innovation here whether it's the technology working and incorporating in the classroom or it's just the strategic initiatives that that the the the MG tech drives Yeah, well, so some of that is what content we put in our in this classroom. As I mentioned, the the three and arms of this are cybersecurity, cloud computing, and technical support. and Technical support really kind of think is more like the skills needed to operate a help desk.
00:22:17
Speaker
and We will have the ability for students to do all three of those. Probably many of our students will only be focusing on one or two, depending on how much time and and how successful they are in completing certification exams. But we probably won't always have those three those three arms. And what this looks like five or ten years from now is you know, partly going to be driven by what's happening in the IT industry and how we say on top of that is going to be challenging. I mean, honestly, having a good board is going to be helpful in that area because that that we have we have a governing board that is really over, has oversight of all the major, of of the lab school. So that's both the budget and the funding, but it's also, you know, questions like the curriculum and what what kind of instruction we're providing.
00:23:02
Speaker
You know, AI is the big buzz right now. Is there going to be a certification in AI someday? Probably. We'll move on to something else not long after that, probably too. So right I don't think we want to jump on the first buzzword that that comes along. But we need to be flexible. and And that's the whole vision of laboratory schools to begin with, is to provide a new and innovative way and and and do something markedly different than what's happened in in K-12. And the way our school is doing that is really focusing on careers in IT and certifications that allow the graduates and these students to move into those careers.
00:23:47
Speaker
And so you you said a couple things, there which is a really good lead in to to my next question for you. You said a couple things about you know looking in the industry and where things are headed and you know kind of trying to meet the students' needs and the career focus as well. And you know I'm thinking of... you know i four or five years ago created a a bachelor's program in industrial design with a couple other faculty at at DePaul University. And a lot of it was the same thing. we had an industry you We had industry advisors who would come in and tell us, this is what people are looking for in industrial design. this is These are the skills that we're looking for when we hire them. And then we went back and we said, okay, this is what everybody's looking at.
00:24:27
Speaker
What's the one thing that we're going to say is different about our program? And if you join our program, you're going to get this only here. you know One of the advisors called it the gimmick. What's the gimmick? what's that And that's like the creative part of it, I think. And you've got to find like the little manna that makes it interesting for those who are involved, too. And I'm wondering like how you balance. and what Well, first of all, this is a two-part. What is that thing? what's the We would also call it the hill we'll die on, which is like, it doesn't matter if people tell us anything i like This is the one thing. We'll listen to everything else they say. This is the one thing we want to do. And then my second question after that follow up is, how do you balance that with, yes, they need to get jobs. Yes, they need that we need to think about industry as well. Yeah, that's that's an excellent question. Well, I tell you what it really, for me, I want to find a way of leveraging all the great resources we have here in the area.
00:25:17
Speaker
and And one is is institutions of higher learning like the Virginia Military Institute and Washington and Lee University because there's some great resources there that these students can take advantage of. I want this program to be something that is is fun and engaging and giving students and these kids an opportunity to really step away from to to make to make the high school experience really unique for them and make it really fun and engaging. And and I think that's when we'll we will really be successful. Yes, we need to have those certifications in there so that you know the the employability of of these graduates is is key, but something that's really fun for them to do. And frankly, opportunities for them to get engaged with kids across where we are here in the in the southern Shenandoah Valley and Allegheny Highlands
00:26:06
Speaker
the you A lot of our students, you know these these small, and they're very they are they are all very small high schools, get very insular, and so this opportunity to kind of create bridges across different high schools. Sporting events do that tune of to a limited degree. i'm I'm hoping to really take that kind of to the next level, that we can have this program that's got kids who have both their relationships with their high school, but then they have this relationship with MG Tech that has kids all over this region in Virginia. And so what are ways that we can create a really fun programming where they're getting out into the community, working in businesses, but doing not just, you know, not just showing up and, and you know, filling out a spreadsheet, but doing something really fun where they're engaged with and and doing something really meaningful in a local business.
Hands-On Learning and Cybersecurity Measures
00:26:56
Speaker
Interesting, and that's got to be an interesting challenge too. you know As we were talking before the podcast, we were talking about other certifications, particularly in the trades, you know plumbing or electricians or things like that. you know Some of the work that I did back in Chicago was with students who, high school students actually, who who are very interested in more hands-on things too. So is it a have you is it going to be an interesting challenge if you've got, I don't know what that population looks like, but if there are students who like, and and a lot of your programs are already doing a lot of hands-on things and now you're bringing them into a classroom or whether they're remote or the classroom and they're doing digital things on a computer, how do you how do you think about taking,
00:27:39
Speaker
does Is this kind of making sense? like that that the How do you get the hands-on into some of this? yeah Well, we we want some of it to be hands-on, too. right so Sure, if they're in a coding class, Python is one of the courses that students will study early on. That's all digital. it's it's They're writing code in a computer. But many of our networking classes are hands-on. They actually build networks with their physical devices that they get to to work with. And sure, there are simulators that they can run on a laptop that will simulate how they operate, create and build networks. A lot of the cloud computing, of course, is cloud computing because they're they're not the the physical hardware doesn't actually reside with the with the user or the admin. it's it's it's it's It's virtual. But we do want to have students doing things from the old Raspberry Pi to other kinds of hands-on, you know, build their own computer, strip it a PC down, put put all those little parts together so they can see how how they operate. So we want that to be part of it too.
00:28:38
Speaker
yeah i'm thinking of god butvan Almost a decade ago now, I brought on an intern for our video game company at the time. And the intern was also one of my students at DePaul. And we were making a physical device for making a a video game, an innovative, I think at least, video game controller. And so he's working on this piece of hardware, and he was coding for the piece of hardware as well. and wrote a little piece of code and then something on the controller lit up and started happening and he told me, this was his senior year, his name was Alksmith, and he told me that that was the first time he actually understood programming and enjoyed it because every other course he had taken in programming was simply on the computer.
00:29:23
Speaker
But then when the code came into, it's you know, some kind of a physical manifest manifestation, it kind of clicked for him a little bit differently. So I can see what you're saying there when you talk about Raspberry Pis or Arduinos or or whatever else. You know, there's definitely a physical, but and and that all plays into Cybersecurity as well, right? I mean, with cybersecurity, one of the biggest threats is the Internet of Things, because anybody can get their hands on these devices now and make 100 Internet of thing Things things that are highly insecure and, sure as we learned, oh, probably four or five years back when there were a suite of tens of thousands of Internet-enabled cameras that were hijacked and used to to to do it to to execute a DDoS attack.
00:30:09
Speaker
on and one of the main ISP hubs in the United States and the internet went down in like a whole region. That's that's a huge area as as well, so that's interesting. Everything has a computer chip in it now and yeah to to realize that those could be hacked.
00:30:25
Speaker
Right. Yeah. For better or worse, everything has a computer chip in it now. So you've got so we've we've talked a little bit about like success and what success success could look like. But being an entrepreneurship, I always think of KPIs, key performance indicators. or like so So what are some of the, whether it's a KPI or you know whatever else,
00:30:43
Speaker
What is success look like or let me put it maybe a different way if you open up a newspaper three years from now And there's a headline about your initiative.
Key Performance Indicators for Program Success
00:30:52
Speaker
What does that headline say? Sure. Sure Well one piece of this is that because we are we are a laboratory school where we operate on you know through the Virginia Department of Education we have key performance indicators that are tied to VDOE guidelines, so we've got you know And it's all clearly spelled out in our our documentation and and supporting materials. So we've got you know a number of students that have to, we have we have targets for the number of students we're going to enroll, the numbers that are going to complete the program.
00:31:26
Speaker
the numbers of students who earn those certifications, that that's a piece of it also. So there's there's there's that data there. So primarily enrollment, student retention, and completion of of of certifications will be really the key pieces. But what I really want to see like in a newspaper five years from now is not only the data on the number of graduates that we put out, yeah that's that's that's and that's important. But like that special interest story of this kid who helped us, a small business in town, redo some of their security protections, enable them to operate more more efficiently or
00:32:07
Speaker
more safely. that That's kind of the what I'm really hoping to see would be some public interest story in a local newspaper. Interesting. interesting the So the the local newspaper thing has me thinking because as you mentioned earlier, you know you might get these certifications or people who get this kind of training might end up going to another major metropolitan area or something like that. How do you keep them How do you you know if that's that's one of the people you know that they're helping local. How do you keep them local to. Well that's
Remote Work and Local Job Opportunities
00:32:36
Speaker
that's a good point. So and and I've been saying this throughout when I've been pitching the lab school to our local chambers of commerce and local businesses and into K 12.
00:32:46
Speaker
certainly many of the graduates of this program are going to move on to i places far away from here and do great things, but there's also the ability for these students to stay, and and i I still believe this, there's there's that opportunity to do jobs in cybersecurity and cloud computing where they can stay locally if they choose to. And you know one thing we've learned from the pandemic is that The increase in remote workers is on the rise and people can be effective remote workers and more and more businesses are willing to hire remote workers because there are cost savings and also frankly opportunities for innovation because they can bring in a lot of talent that they might not be able to find at whatever geographic location where they are. So I'm still bullish on the idea that
Career Center Initiatives for Student Success
00:33:32
Speaker
We could create a program where these these graduates of the program, if they wish to, can go on and earn associate baccalaureate degrees without having to leave the service area and can find employment without having to leave the leave the region as well.
00:33:47
Speaker
We'll see. Is there a component of you can start your own consultancy or your own business or students as they come through the program gonna be taught like how to articulate their value as a remote worker as well? you know like what's the how do they How do they actually figure out that their place can be here still? Yeah, I'm taking notes. You're telling me all this. Because yeah, i mean that that that is something we'd like to see. we We just launched a new career center at our college. It's just trying to work on things like soft skills and helping students with you know go do interview prep and and craft resumes and so forth. So teaching these students how to find and apply for jobs is going to be something we want to try to build into this so they can even do things like just just like what you mentioned. they when they're How to look for a job in the IT industry and how to look for jobs that are local with an actual physical brick and mortar business here, and we have those.
00:34:45
Speaker
But also how to look for that job that the employer may be in Northern Virginia or or who who knows where and how to look for and find and apply for those jobs. Yeah. I mean I know of at least one data center in Washington and Lee's campus that has all sorts of interesting information that they could.
00:35:01
Speaker
potentially get hired to help. So you talked a little bit about kind of like the remote or the blended aspects of the center and you know both the the balance that you'll have to strike with with collaboration and with people feeling like they're a part of this this this place, right? Could you elaborate on like how how are you, what are some strategies that you might employ to encourage that collaboration, whether it's students who are doing blended learning or students who are coming from different high schools to the center, how do you how do you bring them together?
00:35:40
Speaker
Well, so maybe one piece of that is we want to create through it. Well, community colleges have been doing a lot with online delivery of instruction and we did a lot more of that during the pandemic. So we're getting better at figuring out how we can better create an online learning community with students who are accessing course content through a learning management system or zooming into you know using a video conference to access a class.
Fostering Online Learning and Community Engagement
00:36:11
Speaker
and And part of that is how can we actually get those students engaged with each other. So we're we're we're we're making strides in those areas. And there are lots of ways that faculty can see that students are working in small groups. Maybe they're not face to face.
00:36:25
Speaker
and working on a project, but they're doing project-based learning and then learning how to use collaborative Excel spreadsheets and more documents to create a project. So that that's one piece of it. and This is our our planning year. Our director is going to be really focused on partnering with our K-12 partners on, you know, how can we physically get these students to our campus at least some of the time? How can we create a kind of re-envision the field trip so that it's a really interesting, fun activity that really brings students together from across multiple school districts? And that's going to be one of our big challenges because
00:37:07
Speaker
It is multiple school districts each has its own unique version of block scheduling and it and I know the flexibility of our program offering will will it is important because those school systems all operate on different kinds of calendars.
00:37:22
Speaker
It almost seems like the strategies that you'll need to employ to ensure effective blended learning, if done well and with the appropriate tools, it's basically training them to become remote workers before they become remote workers, like the remote learning. And if they're using tools that they could then articulate when they're applying for positions, you know they might be able to, it's it seems like that's that's interesting interesting. Thank you for saying that. I'm gonna make a note of that one also, but you're absolutely right.
00:37:51
Speaker
and you you know and And in Virginia, there has been a push towards having every high school student take at least one online class with the with the knowledge that that doing online learning is more and more a reality for students and in four-year universities. And even even in in small liberal arts colleges like the Washington and Lee, students are still doing engagement using at at a distance, their classes are still traditional face-to-face classes by and large, but they're still doing kind of all kinds of interesting engagement with other students and and organizations around the around the world. And so, yes, by doing by setting up the program the way we have, we certainly are preparing these students to go out and do telework and other kinds of at-a-distance job employment. Interesting.
00:38:36
Speaker
so but I want to talk a little bit about sustainability. So we we talked about your budget. We talked about you know a little bit about the funding and and things like that. So it seems like you've got what we call start like you've got seed funding, right? We are very fortunate that the funding that's provided by us the state of Virginia is going to is instrumental. so And we have almost $2 million two million dollars to get this up. Now that's over a five-year period. That includes both.
00:39:04
Speaker
a large infrastructure of technology that we have to purchase. It also includes personnel costs. But five years from now, this this project has to be self-sustaining. And that's that will be a challenge. And it will really only occur when we get it we have to get a critical mass of students enrolled in it.
00:39:21
Speaker
OK, so some of the strategies to ensure sustainability then are the things we've talked about. It's outreach and awareness and and bring to to bring students in and things like that. Outreach and awareness, doing things like having summer camps that get students while they're in middle school, put this on their radar, get them excited, different kinds of events that could take place on campuses targeting freshmen. And so that way, when we start enrolling students as sophomores, we then have a strong class coming in.
00:39:51
Speaker
so So, as you've mentioned... Over the next five years, a lot of things might change. Technologies changing, demands in the industry are changing. Who knows if AI is gonna be the next you know five years or if it's gonna be the next two years and then something else comes along. You mentioned the advisory board a little bit, but I'm sure there are other, what what kind of feedback mechanisms have you put in place to to be able to kind of like to to to pivot or to to tell you like when changes need to be made about the strategies that you're that you're employing?
00:40:24
Speaker
Well, all of my programs at the college have an advisory board. And our information systems technology program also has an advisory board. It's primarily made of local IT businesses. So we we turn to them for guidance in that area as well. Making sure that all of our faculty have professional development opportunities is key as well. so And fortunately, I've got funds that are part of MG Tech, at least for the next five years, to send my my director and some of the faculty who will be teaching the program to to conferences so they can have that kind of engagement as well. So that we we really do need to have them connected to what's going on in the IT industry because you're right, it changes changes a lot. So then you've got all these students as well and you mentioned before there are playing games on the phones, whatever. How do you how do you use them as a feedback mechanism as well? Like what are they telling you or are they telling you anything?
00:41:19
Speaker
Well, keeping those lines of communication open is key. yeah And I just came from a lovely conference that of my colleagues from around the Virginia Community College system. And it it concluded with a panel of students talking about their experiences as community college students. And it was on one level very hard. It was a very wonderful experience, very fulfilling to see firsthand the impact that you can have on students.
00:41:44
Speaker
and and you know, and where where that impact can can take people. So, you know, I think one piece for this school and and and something I know that's going to differentiate this program, it is a dual enrollment program. So these students are earning college credit at the same time they're earning high school credit.
00:42:03
Speaker
And part of that means that we treat them like they're in a college classroom. And that comes with all the expectations in terms of the academic rigor. But also, I think it's a different way of looking at teaching and learning. You know, the college classroom tends to be a lot more collaborative. It's a lot less of the you know, the professor as the all-knowing seer who is dispensing knowledge and more about helping the student in that environment learn how to learn for themselves. Now, you know, that's not always the case in every single class. If you're doing a coding class, you know, for sure you've got to learn and memorize these, you know, different rules and syntax. But, you know, really giving students, making it project-based,
00:42:46
Speaker
giving them the opportunity to really take their learning to the next level I think will also set this apart from a lot of the learning that happens in K-12. Yeah, I think when students take control of their learning and their environment, you know that can be a really powerful thing. I'm thinking of a lot of the spaces that I've stood up you know at DePaul and now Washington and Lee, where you know even having yeah know eight, 10 student employees running a center on a day-to-day basis helps provide you with some of that feedback mechanism. Because you're you tell those students that these are what our goals are. you know We want to bring more people in this year from these from different degrees or what have you.
00:43:23
Speaker
And then you say, well, what are you saying on TikTok right now? You know, what are you saying? What is it that you are interested in that can help me meet these goals and bring students into this space? And they know better sometimes, oftentimes, know better than we do about what what will attract them in. And then after you've got them in, you know, it's like fly paper, then you've got them. And then and then you can, yeah.
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah. we we My college has run successfully a, it's a governor's school that's got a STEM focus, so physics, chemistry, biology. And as part of that program, they all do a year-long project. It's a research-based project. And I get to see the the result of that project every year. And it's it's really amazing what what these kids do. it really it's it's the science fair, but they've spent an entire year developing it as opposed to you know a two-week project. and I'm hoping that we can do with MG Tech something like that. Very interesting. okay so that's that's i mean yeah First of all, I agree. Like a year to be able to really sit and look at something. that's value It's valuable not only because the product is going to be more polished, but it teaches somebody to sit with a thing for an entire year and that can be miserable sometimes. you know I had a student come in just the other day and he
00:44:43
Speaker
He's doing an independent study with me for a video game. And he says, is it boring making video games sometimes? And I said, yeah. Yeah, you've been working on this for six months now. That's what it's like. It gets boring sometimes. But at the end of it, you'll have something special. And then maybe other people will want to do that. And we can kind of bring them in to do those things too.
00:45:01
Speaker
I'm wondering what so so you've you've gone through all of this this this hard work to get this set up There are people who might be in a similar situation to you, but they're also people who are you know I'm thinking of When I worked with companies like like Caterpillar and they've got their own innovation centers, and then there are these independent centers that you know either government funded in a city or they found funding somewhere else, what are what are some tips that you'd give folks who are trying to trying to get started for the first time in creating their own
Building Strong Partnerships for Program Support
00:45:35
Speaker
space?
00:45:35
Speaker
Well, the biggest tip is building up those partnerships. I could not do my work in a community college if it weren't for my partners in K-12. They're very important to what we do. it wouldn't be I couldn't do it without for my partners in business and industry. So I've got representatives on both the governing board, but as my advisory board for the IT t program that work with local IT t companies, and and that input is super helpful. and And other partnerships across higher ed as well. so being yeah Some of that's built in for me. I'm part of a 23 community college system here in Virginia, but I also work closely with other four-year institutions as well. So it's it's not just the other community colleges in the state.
00:46:24
Speaker
that we have our partners where our students transfer and go study so that's that's one piece you know regionally we've got our the other higher educational institutions here and in Rockbridge County and I work with them also so we're looking at partnering with a cyber defense lab at the Virginia Military Institute they have a mission that's different from ours but certainly there will be parts that will allow us to overlap and have students take advantage of some of the resources that they have This innovation center we have here at W and&L is another example of where there may be is know looking for opportunities for for partnership there, too. So I think that's my biggest advice, is where where are your other partners out there that you can look at? And it's you know it could be other it's in private ands it's in the private sector, but it's in the public sector also, and and look for both. So want I want to ask a follow-up to that, because I've heard it said that
00:47:14
Speaker
There's a difference between advisement and involvement and the the point that the person was making is one of my mentors who told me this is that if you ask somebody for advisement, they will do, I don't want to say the bare minimum, but they'll do exactly what you ask of them and no more. and then if you if But what you really want from your partners is involvement. You want them to be thinking about you,
00:47:36
Speaker
but Before they go to sleep, you know you want it not necessarily that but you know you want them to be Out there and advocates for you as well. How do you think about those partners and how do you turn them from? advisors and into involved participants Yeah, that's that's a good point. And the more that they have some skin in the game, and they've got some stakes that are involved in it, that that helps. you We had a a very vocal supporter who was a superintendent for one of our local school systems. And she knew that this was going to help her her achieve some of her goals in terms of you know measures that she's given for measuring the success of her school system. so
00:48:17
Speaker
that that That is a good example of a strong partner. you know With local businesses, of you know finding IT talent here in in the Shenandoah Valley and the Allegheny Highlands is a challenge. So I think if we can talk, we can get support from local businesses.
00:48:33
Speaker
but as a way of saying, look, we're helping develop a workforce that can come and work for you someday. You're expanding a cybersecurity component of your the portfolio of services that you offer. These students that were coming through our program could end up as your employees someday. So that's another way of of they've got some skin in the game too, because they need to find a way of building that workforce.
00:48:52
Speaker
Skin in the game. I like that. that's I don't know if you've read any Nassim Talib. He's the guy who he invented the concept of the black swan and you know famously predicted the 2008 crash and things like that. He calls him fat tail event. you know He's got this idea of fat tail events and things like that. but's He's also got this concept of skin in the game, which is like whether it's capital or time savings or something like that, how do you how do you leverage the things that that that make people tick to and find those, I hate to use the word synergies, but the the synergies, the overlaps to get people really kind of active. Yeah, or simply, you know, what's in it for me and right and helping people, you know, see that what what you're creating with this, in my case, a laboratory school, it's going to have pieces that are going to help them with what their own goals are. right So I think I've got the, our our K-12 institutions online, I've got our
00:49:50
Speaker
working on getting more businesses locally here and involved in that. We have some other regional partners. We work closely now with the Old Dominion University and you know these students could also be their future students too because they offer online baccalaureate master's degree programs that our students would be perfectly suited to move into.
00:50:08
Speaker
Right. so So the challenge is articulating where that overlap is and kind of building that roadmap or those processes or the chain that that kind of makes it very clear to those partners how how it benefits. Yeah. And when when we think about local business and industry, it's not just the small you know internet service provider company, but it's our local hospitals, education higher education. They all have IT departments that that need support. And they all struggle, I know, to find you know employees to work in those areas. I mean, you've got a town of 7,000 people. You've got 7,000 people. That's right. and or Otherwise, you've got to bring people in. So yeah, that's an absolute challenge. I want to switch gears totally. This is such a rough transition, this is the next question. This is one that I think people find interesting. i've I've learned, because it's a very tactical question, that people can almost apply immediately.
00:51:04
Speaker
And the question is, what what are some of the essential resources or technologies that the center will be utilizing or or implementing to make its day to day operations function? Sure.
Essential Technologies and Resources for MG Tech
00:51:18
Speaker
Well so some of that is going to be the i' go say textbook with air quotes around it. It's going to be what are those teaching materials that we use for the program. We've done some good work so far reaching out to some of the textbook providers and they're going to be providing us with some discounts on some of their services because our students are going to need to use yeah whatever cutting edge training materials that are out there and and those aren't cheap. So that's that's you know one piece that is front and foremost in my mind. The the technology itself, you know they need to have up to date laptops and computers.
00:52:00
Speaker
the that i i'm I'm more confident that I'll be able to find and and replenish on cycle. it the The other piece is is that talent, it's the personnel, making sure I've got the trained IT instructors that are out there. And some of that is going to be you know finding ways of attracting people who may be in private sector who might want to move into education, that this is something that they can do that's fun, that's rewarding, that kind of is engaging for them.
00:52:27
Speaker
But it's also about you know growing our own and what what can we do with existing employees who have some but not all of those skills and then try to find try to skill some of them up so they can work as you work in this program for us.
00:52:40
Speaker
how do you How do you go about convincing somebody? so but For me, I came from private sector in education. So i I might know the answer for me, but that's just me. how do you what's the What's the perk of shifting? Yeah, I think there's more that we can do about quality of life. And and that speaks also to a lot of rural America, too.
00:53:01
Speaker
you know we can we We live in this area with these beautiful natural resources of these mountains and lakes and rivers. The Appalachian Trail runs right through our our service area and people who are living in the high traffic lifestyle and and yeah in northern Virginia and other urban areas.
00:53:19
Speaker
There's more that rural America it can do to attract people to to these areas. So that's that's one piece, and that's that's really an economic development piece. and there And there are other players on this, between chambers of commerce and tourism centers that are trying to raise awareness of that. you can move and live in a and a more rural area. so that's And there's there's work being done in that and that sector. and Another piece is making people realize some of the fun parts of working in education. And some of it is is time. While we don't pay as well as the private sector, many of my faculty work on nine-month contracts and they get three months off in the summer to go do other kinds of fun things. so
00:54:02
Speaker
If you always wanted to have that boat to sail around the Chesapeake Bay, you've got the opportunity to do that while while working for me. So that's that's another piece that we can try to, I think, make rewarding. But I think even more than that is if you've never been involved in education and really seeing a student's face just light up when they get it, that's a really special experience. And yes, you know there's the having more of your time that you can use to to help you out living in an area that's just a beautiful part of the country, but also feeling really at the end of the day rewarded that the work you've done has really helped make other people's lives better.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, right. So that's the there is a lot of overlap between those two things. And again, a lot of it just seems like the job is in articulation and awareness of them.
Transition from Private Sector to Education
00:54:52
Speaker
I'm thinking of, you know in addition to bringing you know transitioning people from private to education, you know I'm thinking of when I started and first started teaching I hate to keep talking about my old university I don't know if you've ever watched Magic School Bus and there's a character who says at my old school, but at my old school at DePaul when I was very fortunate when I started teaching there to to start in in the game design program, which had only been around for for a short number of years.
00:55:22
Speaker
And what had happened is that the program actually started out for a lot of teachers from professional backgrounds at the time. Midway Games had recently closed, and so there were a lot of game developers and designers who were looking for positions, and they were able to stand up you know what became one of the world's best game design programs in higher ed.
00:55:40
Speaker
But what happened you know as those those years went on is that you started to see students who had come through the program come back and start teaching in in the program as well. Do you have any thoughts or plans to like bring, your students are going to come through this program and it could be a gold standard program. are they How do you bring them back too?
00:56:01
Speaker
Oh, that's a really good point. I have not really given that as much thought as I should, but I would love to see graduates of our program come back and work for us. And we have employees at my college who are graduates of our college. And the more that they can go out, get some real world experience, a practical experience, and then find their way back to us, I would certainly welcome that. would be That's another way of sort of growing your own.
00:56:28
Speaker
Right. And then they would be coming back with kind of industry perspective and bringing kind of some of those new ideas into the program. i' i've I've heard it said that the best way to know the future is to make it. So so this question, I want to put some kind context on that context on it.
00:56:48
Speaker
Which is, I think probably some of these challenges that we've been talking about are kind of you know as the industry changes rapidly, how do you adapt
Developing a Unique, Experiential Learning Program
00:56:55
Speaker
to it? But my question is, how do you not only adapt to it, but as an innovation center, I think some of your challenges, how do you invent the future?
00:57:04
Speaker
I don't know if you've thought about this. This may be an unfair question. And I think this goes back a little bit to some of the talk of like what's the special different thing about about you know the the center as well. But how do you what do how do you think about like addressing a challenge like that? How do you go about and creating the future too?
00:57:22
Speaker
creating the future Well, you know kind of getting back to the idea of can we create a program that's really special that allows students to grow within it and to bring their own personal A-game to it, where they can it's not just you know checking off that they can do coding or or networking. but They then have the opportunity to do some real experiential learnings, a catchphrase, but getting out in the community, getting involved with the local business in some way, and then you know taking their own creativity to that. i'd I'd love to see this program someday being able to do things like that, where students are using their creativity to solve problems.
00:58:05
Speaker
Creativity and technology aren't often thought about in the same sentence. what is that and and And by that I mean, and it's it's not always fair, but by that I mean, especially if you're working at a tech company, you've got the computer programmers and they're gonna you're and then you've got designers or strategists. And sometimes people think of those as like left brain, right brain kind of differentiation.
00:58:28
Speaker
I took a Java coding class from a really wonderful instructor, and one of the things she tried to teach us not only was you know how to do the coding, but some of the elegance that occurs when you write code in a beautiful way. And we would look at different different ways of yeah actually you know And a lot of coding is is solving problems and and mathematics is the same way too.
00:58:56
Speaker
it's you're You're looking at a way of solving some kind of a problem and there are multiple routes that you can get from point A to point B. And what's gonna be the most elegant or the most cost effective or the fastest or sometimes the most elegant and and finding that pathway there.
00:59:15
Speaker
yeah yeah I completely agree. I just wanted to put the question out there because you know it's it's interesting to see how people think about that a little bit differently depending on you know what their backgrounds are. so you This might be an unfair question as well because you're only partway through the process of developing you know this entire initiative.
Balancing Development Speed and Addressing Delays
00:59:37
Speaker
And so maybe the question isn't necessarily what would you have done differently in in setting it up, but but really the important context here is
00:59:46
Speaker
is direction and speed. Direction and speed are important. We often talk about direction and direction. Are you going in the right direction? We often talk about speed. Are you going fast enough? But to to me at least, it's always the combination of the both. You have to pick the right direction and the and the correct pace yeah to to get there. that's That's a good point. Well, you know one thing, we we delayed the launch of the program a year because we didn't have all the right pieces in place to start it this coming fall. And part of that was just the delay in receiving funding.
01:00:14
Speaker
had had The application that we submitted in what was it fall of 2023 been approved or excuse me summer of 2023 being approved in early fall of 2023 what my hope had been I would have had a director hired.
01:00:31
Speaker
at the end of 2023, so when 2024 rolled around, we had the director in place working with their school systems, recruiting students for a program starting this coming fall. Well, that all got pushed back by six months or more. So being able to pivot, you know, but people talk about that all and all the time, and that's one of the things that that we will have to continue to do moving forward. We are hopefully hopefully naming our new director on Monday, and Once we have that individual in place, a lot's going to fall on her on her to help get all these little pieces together. But we have to be flexible and and and you know decide when and what how we're going to pivot. So you know these three arms of the program, are they always going to be you know we may need to jettison one sooner than later. We don't know. We'll we'll see where
Methods for Class Delivery and Future Trends in Higher Ed
01:01:14
Speaker
we are. The vision of how we're going to be doing this flexible delivery with students coming onto campus or using
01:01:24
Speaker
teleconferencing software to access the class or using complete asynchronous methods of accessing the class. What does that actually look like in practice? We still need to work, you know, iron some of that stuff out. You know, and that speaks to got closing question for you. And then I'm going to ask you one last thing, but that speaks a little bit to future trends as well. I wonder in addition to you know what's happening in industry and whether the three legs become two or however many legs you got or maybe add four legs. I don't know how many legs you want but I but i i wonder if if you could answer this next question in the context of the changing student because you're because being in in academia there's a little bit of a
01:02:05
Speaker
a different kind of trend that we're looking at. What what are some of the changing changing trends in in higher ed or in in your field and community colleges as well? Where it where are students going? And how do we... Yeah. Well, there's a lot being said about the Gen C the Gen Z generation and what what they want to need. I think flexible and short-term training is is on the is on the rise. We were were talking about that before, far earlier this afternoon. And i see I see a lot more of that happening where students want to do learning outside of the traditional 15-week semester. They want to be able to get to their their content more quickly. They're less patient when it comes to
01:02:51
Speaker
having to drive an hour to a class that meets you know twice a week for an hour and 15 minutes. And so you how much of this is going to find its way into into my program, probably to some extent, that providing flexible delivery also may mean allowing students to work at at their own pace to work through content. So some students may be able to go much more quickly through a program.
01:03:15
Speaker
and be able to get a lot more accomplished in their time with MG Tech than other students. And and we should be willing to to let that happen. So there may be that kid who really is only able to get through one arm of this program, and there would be others who get through all three, and it may be able to do things beyond that. yeah So so finding a way to build that kind of flexibility into it, I think, is important, too. Because I think that's one thing that is that is markedly different about this generation than than my gender. I'm i'm Gen X.
01:03:41
Speaker
and it's wanting to, people who are much more focused on efficiency and time and the amount of, and less willing to invest, or when they're investing their time into a long-term project, they want to see some short-term results.
01:03:58
Speaker
It's interesting. I had a conversation with a colleague the other day where we were talking about game theory, actually. and I forget the exact concept, but he was talking about discount discounts. Not discounts like you know you go to the grocery store and you get money off, but discounts like Future discounts and so if you know in game theory you're trying to figure out the product like prisoners dilemma in particular You're trying to figure out the probability of what somebody else's decision gonna be the optimal decision in game theory in in Prisoners dilemmas that both individuals work together and achieve some small reward But if one person defects they get the larger reward if the other one does not and so on and the point of of the the discount concept he was telling me is that if you know that you're going to work with somebody over time and a day, a month, a year. The longer term that is, the more likely you are to cooperate with that person and the more predictable the outcomes of the individuals are going to be. Anyways, the reason why I'm thinking about this is because sometimes, you know, as we got into the conversation, we were talking about short-term thinking.
01:04:59
Speaker
and how short-term thinking can be introduced for all sorts of reasons, cultural, societal, et cetera. But short-term thinking is is, I think, on the rise. and And as a result, you need to find ways to kind of leverage, turn them into students. and I mean, that's part of your job, to turn them into long longer-term thinkers and and and to cooperate and and get on board with that. yeah you know another that That made me think of another Gen Z characteristic that I see reported a lot, and and it's certainly my own experience working at community college is aversion to debt and being much more focused on return on investment, whether it's their investment in time or their investment in money, and students saying, I'm less willing to do a program that's
01:05:50
Speaker
very long term or be very conscious about what's the, you know, how much money will I be able to make when I'm done or how much debt am I incurring that I'm gonna have to pay back. I mean these are a lot of kids who, you know, their parents were got caught in that housing bubble burst and they saw firsthand people losing jobs and that that That's, I think, in a lot of people's mind, too. Yeah. Well, Ben Worth, I know it might not seem like it, but we've been we were we are well over an hour now. And the last question I wanted to ask you is, what should people be paying attention to that you're doing? What do you want people to to be looking at? Or can they find you? What do you want to let people know about? Sure. Well, certainly they can find me with Mountain Gateway Community College. Just Google us up and you can find us there on the web. We're located in Clifton Forge, Virginia. This was a wonderful opportunity that became that became available to me. And I think that's another thing to be aware of is there are all kinds of funding opportunities out there for whatever kind of innovation center you're hoping to build up.
01:06:50
Speaker
This one was available to institutions of higher learning here in Virginia, but not everyone jumped on it. And when I saw it and saw that opportunity that was out there, I said, you know, I think I can make this happen. I've got the support from my local school districts, and I've got the talent here with the IT program we had in place that I that i think I can make this happen.
01:07:11
Speaker
Great. All right, Ben, I appreciate your time. I'm sure people have a lot to learn from this and look forward to seeing what happens with MG Tech going forward. Thank you, Jay. Cool.