Transcript
margalus: Okay. All right. We are recording. I have Wendy Bolger here with me, who is the director of the Simon Center for Innovation and Entrepreneurship, a former director at Mercy Corps a Global Humanitarian Organization, lots of background in social entrepreneurship, which I think I would love to hear about, and I think you've defined yourself as an entrepreneur, entrepreneur which I think is really compelling, and I'd love to talk about that as well.
margalus: one of Let's see, Baltimore Business Journal's Women to Watch. I could keep going on and on here. A recent host of GCEC, an entrepreneurship conference for those who aren't familiar. and And I will note two things.
margalus: Loves photography, I learned in my research. And now this might sound a little bit weird, but I'm saying this for a reason. Burmese mountain dogs. We used to own a greater Swiss mountain dog. Wonderful dogs, big, lovable dogs. So I love that about you as well. I'm going to stop talking now. Wendy, what what did I miss? What do you want to add, edit, or delete from that introduction? And how are you doing today?
wendy: Well, thank you so much, Jason. It's really fun to be here, and I'm super impressed with with the deep research. i can't I can't deny any of it, although I didn't get the Bernese last time we have a rescue dog right now who's
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: who's who's definitely a pit bull and is as sweet as pie. So that's what we're doing with dogs. And absolutely social entrepreneurship is has been the thing that I have wanted to learn about and spread the word about and through a lot of my career.
wendy: And and though I come from a family, and I've been surrounded by entrepreneurship quite a bit growing up. So I think that's where intrapreneurship came pretty naturally to me.
wendy: It is a slightly different animal. But I, in retrospect, was you know able maybe 10, 15 years ago to put that label on myself and recognize that like, actually, that's what I've been doing is people keep hiring me to start new things in existing organizations, which I think is a really important role and maybe not not always recognized.
margalus: Mm
wendy: And it's something that I try to prepare our students for as well because I do think that's a way to to bring innovation in into into institutions, into our society, and to have a really you know rewarding career and that maybe is not as risky as and starting your adventure.
margalus: hmm.
wendy: Not necessarily because it can be risky, but in and a different way.
margalus: Right. and we We find that at at my current institution, Washington and Lee, as well as a lot of students are looking to take a more traditional path, you know have invest invested a lot or their parents have invested a lot in their education and and working with an existing organization that can give you benefits and where you can learn on their dime is something that you know
wendy: Yeah. yeah Yeah.
margalus: is compelling to them. I, you know, you said a couple of things that are an excellent jumping off point and do diving right into the first question I had for you, because I'm sure entrepreneurship is quite useful and when you're entering an academic institution as well. Maybe a lot of similarities between past organizations where you've been an interpreter, perhaps different, some differences as as well. I noted that, you know, one of the reasons you you had noted that you had been interested in in in the current opportunity that you're the current role that you're in is that you would get to build the center from the ground up, which is interesting. So you're an entrepreneur in an organization, but you're building something from scratch within that organization as well. And so I wonder if if you could describe what building you know what building that center within an organization looked like, how you leverage some of the the the past things that you'd done to do that. and
margalus: and kind of like what you're what you're doing right now with with the Simon Center.
wendy: Sure. So one of the things that I think it's really important to note, one place where I got really lucky in in this job opportunity was that some of the money had already been raised. So we had seed funding and it is much easier to build when there's some money behind it. So there you know and And the reason there was money is because there was some leadership here already who were committed to the idea. So I had the Dean of the School of Ed who was actually a serial entrepreneur himself and the Dean of the Business School. Originally, I was supposed to actually report to both of them because the the two of them had come up with the idea of this center together and gone out and raised the money.
wendy: By the time you know they got me in the door, I ended up just working for for the the business school, for the dean there. But having some money in place to use, just to work with, and having obviously supportive leadership and and a supportive boss.
wendy: I think is those are the most, you know, the best way to start. Right. And, and why I took the job, right? Because, I knew that those were going to be critical for success.
wendy: yeah. And I'd certainly not necessarily had those things in the past.
margalus: Right, right.
wendy: Now that, that was a real gift coming to Loyola. yeah.
margalus: could Could you tell me a little bit more? So they had raised some funding, I'm assuming that that motivates in some sense, the establishment of the center, but it sounds like there was an idea or a German of of an idea there.
margalus: what What motivated its establishments? And I guess as as a second kind of follow on question of that, it have things changed a little bit? I'm sure plans change all the time.
wendy: Yeah, yeah.
margalus: What's what's changed since then?
wendy: Yeah. Yeah, so they, I think they, well, again, so one of these deans was is was an entrepreneur himself and he's just super innovative thinker and wants to infuse new ideas and and innovation in the student body.
wendy: in any and right His expertise is pedagogy, and he's really interested in in thinking different. So you know that was his motivation, I think, on the the business school dean side.
wendy: She's super ambitious. She's a president now of of another institution. Super ambitious, super smart, super aware of the competitive landscape.
margalus: Mm.
wendy: we We didn't have a center for innovation entrepreneurship. we Our colleagues have them. It's a gap. And there there has a history in the school of there was a center more around family business.
wendy: And I think there are a lot of students who do come from family businesses, so there's some level of interest and history there. But really, they identified that this was an opportunity for Loyola, a new direction for growth. And yeah, and so the money they raised was specifically for two to found a center. And and they pitched that vision to to an alum a couple of alums.
margalus: It's interesting. It strikes me. We had a conversation just before we started where we were talking about perhaps some of the differences between entrepreneurship and innovation centers, if there are any.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: And I would say maybe one of them as well is is in an entrepreneurship center. You might be teaching somebody to be an entrepreneur or to run a small business. Whereas in an innovation center, you're kind of Perhaps adding to that flavor a little bit more of perhaps you you want to build a scalable, a business that's going to scale very fast or perhaps you want to pursue social entrepreneurship. Is that kind of like, does your center, these are like the four legs of entrepreneurship that I think of at least when I think of of what what our center supports here. is How much of that comes into play with with what you're doing?
wendy: Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I mean, so I like building. So I got to say what the name of the center was going to be before we became endowed and got the Simon Center funding, right, which was a later stage.
margalus: Right.
wendy: So that's something that changed to your earlier question.
margalus: All right.
wendy: So that came later. And so before that, we were just, you know, whatever this new center, And I mean, it doesn't sound like much, but we I decided that we should be innovation and entrepreneurship. We should lead with innovation instead of the other way around, which a lot of centers, that's what their names are. But i'm I'm just really interested in innovation. and I think it's more interdisciplinary. The word entrepreneurship really does turn a lot of folks off in the liberal arts environment that we're in.
wendy: and And innovation, I think, is is more accessible. And I think more familiar to so to social entrepreneurs. i mean Even though like entrepreneurship is is social entrepreneurs, that's entrepreneurship. but But again, it's about people's comfort with language and people's comfort with something new. right We were introducing something we'd never done before. you know Always in my career, right?
wendy: my my I've been called upon to do so change management. and And language is so much a big part of that.
margalus: That's right.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: that's right i so i You said something many things in there that resonated with me. But but one that that i am my mind can't let go of right now is within a liberal arts institution.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: So I come from a liberal liberal arts institution. I'm at a liberal arts institution now. There are certainly entrepreneurship centers at places that are not liberal arts institutions, tech schools, things like that.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: So if you look at MIT's it You know, entrepreneurship and innovation program, they're going to be very tech -heavy probably. They're going to be producing products and services for, you know, a particular, that that leverage their particular kind of education.
margalus: and And that leads me kind of maybe -ish to my next question, which is a challenges question, which is what challenges have you faced?
wendy: its
margalus: Have any of them... i'm personally fascinated if any of them have to do with that that component of of liberal arts. But you know as you built this this center from from the ground up, what what challenges have you faced? And I guess, selfishly, have any of them had to do with the liberal arts institution? Because I think there are certain unique challenges that being it within a liberal arts institution presents that that that aren't bad. They're just new different kinds of constraints.
wendy: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it it's been six years now, so it feels like ancient history, because we're going back to before, you know, the before times before COVID. But my, the early challenges were all about acceptance by the institution that had a lot of skepticism about the motives behind something so aligned with business and so aligned with money and so maybe skills -based versus verses the way liberal arts has been defined.
wendy: I will say that, uh, I'm a liberal arts, was a liberal arts major, you know, uh, comparative literature, art history minor. I did go to business school, but it took me, you know, longer than usual to find my way there. So, I know that's part of why they hired me was because of my, and, and no other job have I ever had as anybody cared, like what I majored in, right? Like that, that has not in my group been what people cared about until I came into higher ed.
wendy: and And it mattered in terms of me being a representative and and not being right -threatening and and maybe being able to create some allies on the liberal arts side of the house.
margalus: Hahaha.
wendy: So I worked really hard when I got here to do that, you know, and that was about sort of a listening tour, meeting with a lot of people, making sure they knew, you know, who I was and then I wasn't going to bite their head off, you know, where I was in some sort of monster creating you know, destroying value, which is the way I think technologies can be seen, at least in this day and age, because that's certainly, to me, innovation entrepreneurship is about creating value, right? And and in this center in particular, right, is about, certainly about supporting students and and our minor and and the things we're doing on campus, but also very much about
wendy: economic development in the city and job creation and wealth creation and and you know transforming Baltimore, not single -handedly, but in partnership with with other institutions and individuals doing that work.
wendy: So yeah know it's like all good work, and I just had to sell that.
margalus: yeah
margalus: you know I want to come back to economic development in the city, and I have a note here to talk about entrepreneurs as well, which is is really interesting.
wendy: Great.
margalus: yeah I'm wondering, though, OK, so you go on your your listening tour. Everybody's on board with the innovation.
wendy: Well, no, that I mean, they and definitely they were sort of it was wait and see.
wendy: It was what it was like, okay, well, she's she's she's okay.
margalus: Yeah, right.
wendy: Like, we you know, that was fine. You know, I said I said thank you notes after a meeting, you know, people like and but they were it was definitely like the people were not jumping in to help me.
margalus: Right.
wendy: They're like, we'll see what you can do.
margalus: So, so I have to say, your experiences feel familiar, at least to me, and and and and it it it it takes some work to to gain the trust of people who, I mean, liberal arts, I think that there's this conception by a lot of folks that technology comes first, and then everything else comes after, and at a liberal arts institution, and I think in general, we need more of of bringing entrepreneurship into the liberal arts rather than the liberal arts into entrepreneurship. I think it's it's liberal arts first, and then you know think what what follows from there is is what fascinates me. and And the question I have or that's on my mind is, is so let's say you know faculty members are ready to listen, they're maybe not all on board, but but there's there's some
margalus: Traction there and then you at some point, you know, you try to create connections between not only those faculty members but but their students and bringing in a theater student, let's say or a student from cognitive behavioral science or or whatever else is is is i I I wonder maybe one of the one of the next challenges how do you
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: what What are some approaches that you've taken to to you know drive not only drive an innovation within your institution, but you know is there like a student -forward approach that you have to that? Is there a faculty -forward approach that you have to that? I guess particularly within the liberal arts institution, but I'm sure there are some generalizable things as well.
wendy: Yeah, let's see.
wendy: There's a chicken and egg thing about do you focus on faculty or do you focus on students that I've been muddling over since I've started? And I think there are a lot of people within higher ed who this has been their career and they know a lot more about that than I do.
wendy: So I feel like I'm a little bit late to the game around some of that student development stuff.
margalus: Right.
wendy: but, but what I have learned is that the students of course graduate. So you get this awesome cohort. You find the leaders who are, I will note often sometimes the leaders on the rest of the campus, but just as often as there's not more, not, uh, sort of, you know, they're doing that different there.
wendy: They, they go by their own, the beat of our own drummer kind of thing. Right. And those are who entrepreneurs are.
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: where innovators are. So you got to find them and and support them and get them excited and then they go graduate and then you got to start over again. and so you know, for that reason, among a lot of reasons, the the focus as a your sort of primary target for marketing and and outreach and stuff has falls back to faculty because they have the best, at you know, they've got students in their in their class every day.
wendy: So they've got the access. You've got to win them over. You know, it's like a B2C versus is direct to customer type of a relationship.
margalus: Mm hmm. Right.
wendy: Yep. So faculty remain really important. and But the other thing i I guess that I'm thinking about in regards to this question is from the beginning I really wanted the work to be student -led. So I'm coming in into this role and and but this is not about what I want to do. I want this to, to we I want to meet the students where they are. I want them to be the leaders. I want them to have that, I mean so One, because that's the way to scale. Two, because that's the way to sort of be authentic and genuine to what they need. Three, because that's the way that they get the experience that they need to, that leadership experience is going to serve them as in their innovative careers, right, going forward.
wendy: But there's another chicken and egg. OK, you want it to be either. Here I am saying this is going to be student led. Like what how do I create? Do I create those student leaders? Do I find those student leaders? You know, so I my tendency is I don't want to create a lot of structure. and Like I'm just not I don't do well with structure. I'm not interested in structure. Like that's why I do the jobs that I But I'm finding.
wendy: And i want again, I want the students to own it. But what I am learning is that I need to create you know a lot more in order to give them you know something to climb. Right?
margalus: Right. I saw, for instance, that you have, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, a student steering committee. It seems like you've got some student employees as well, work studies.
wendy: For sure.
margalus: And so so these these might be examples of structures that you, in a semi -structured, we might call it, environment that you can use or mechanisms that you can use to encourage student engagement.
wendy: Yep.
wendy: Yep.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: Is that right?
wendy: Yep. Absolutely. And you know, just things like, at the beginning, uh, you know, we would say, well, we'll do whatever, what events of the students want to do. and And they know what, what date should it be? Well, they know the date that that's going to work. They know the time of day that works for them. And, I would work with these teams as students and it would take months for us to set the date. So now in the summer, we just, here's our event dates. We, you know, and we lead with that. And then it's like, you know,
wendy: then I work with students to figure out what what they how they want to populate it. but So I have a you know lot of reluctance to like to even go that far, but in terms of the creating structure and dictating what the center looks like or what the events look like, but I'm really finding that's required.
margalus: so So that's interesting. I have a next question here, which is, how do you balance creative freedom with commercial objective objectives? But really what it sounds like, at least with your, we'll call them commercial objectives, but they're not your, they're not commercial objectives here, but you have specific objectives and you're finding a way to balance the creative with with your objectives as well with your own center.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: When the students get into your space, you know, I was once asked by, when I ran the, the The makerspaces really at at DePaul University, you know, I had somebody who was an administrator from a different institution come through and they asked me, you know, how do you encourage students to commercialize things and I said I don't really care if they commercialize things right I don't I don't want them to be thinking about that I want them
wendy: yeah
margalus: to kind of, you know, so, so how do you go about balancing that, you know, because there's an entrepreneurship kind of angle there where there is some commercialization, but there's also this sense of like, just let's see what happens, you know.
wendy: Yeah. Yeah.
wendy: I mean, I think it's part of them learning how it really works. Like a lot of students will come in and say, you know, can I, can I get a grant? Like I want to start this thing. Where's my money? And I'm like, well, we don't, I don't have that kind of money. We don't do that. you know, you need to, to get creative and make some things start happening and I will help you do that. You know, and then once you're successful, there's some,
wendy: some pathways to get funding. But I want them to be a little more resourceful first because money doesn't fix anything. If you if you haven't created basically created a network and some relationships and you know potentially some interaction with potential customers, all those things have to happen. And I wanted to see them be creative about the way they approach them.
wendy: you know
margalus: What are you know I wonder if you get could you give me what's an example of of a student success where they they've come in, whether they're looking for funding first, or, you know, whether they, they come in and they're, they're open to exploring first.
wendy: You
margalus: what What are what's like a good example of a student success that's happened and and is that like how you measure success at the center or are there different other measures that you have to say like this is we we we did what we set out to do this year.
wendy: know.
wendy: You know, yeah. Well, we collect lots of data to to try to figure out how well we're doing and how to talk about it. We can talk about that more, but I would love to talk about some students who were in our entrepreneurs program last year. So that program, it's an accelerator that mostly pulls from the community in Baltimore. So folks who live and work in Baltimore and majority of them are women founders or founders of color.
wendy: But it we also include students and you have to be a pretty high performing, high caliber student venture in order to get in there. It's pretty competitive. And we had a couple of great companies in the last year. S and &B Commerce, these two founders, they came to me in the spring last, yeah, two years, a year and a half ago now. They came to me in the spring and said, we want to start a venture capital club. And I said, great, you know.
wendy: I got you, you know, let's work together. Looking forward to that. Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that in the fall. All right, great. In the fall, they said, we're skipping the club. We're not going to do the club. We started a company. And they already made like $10 ,000 over the summer with this company called S &B Commerce.
margalus: see
wendy: And they were basically doing Amazon selling.
margalus: Okay.
wendy: but I don't know, buying stuff cheap and selling it for more with Amazon.
margalus: okay Right.
wendy: And they kept working on it. we We let them into the accelerator and the company really just continued to to morph and pivot. We gave them a mentor as part of the accelerator and they learned a lot you know from that mentor. And the exposure to the other companies in the accelerator gave them a lot of ideas about different directions to take their business. So they started supporting several of their cohort members. right So several of the other businesses that are in this learning environment with them, they're selling their stuff on Amazon. And just providing a service for small businesses who don't have the time to figure out how to make Amazon work for them really well, these guys have figured that out. And they were
wendy: you know servicing their, their colleague companies. So, huge success story from them. And, uh, you know, they both had jobs already from their summer internships. and so, but I think they're still making it happen on the side. And, I know that there's more to come from them in the future. and Just the fact that they were the thing I love about student entrepreneurs is their openness, right, to to the model changing. And I don't see as much of that with some of the older entrepreneurs, although many of them are serial entrepreneurs. But these guys are particularly you know open to influence, which
wendy: yeah you know, I think more we get coaching like, you know, be firm, be be stubborn almost. And I think they got a lot out of listening to potential customers and seeing opportunities and, you know, sort of they were more effectual and really an effectuation and their case study and that.
margalus: Yeah, I wonder, I don't want to pigeonhole a liberal arts student, but it but it seems like just the idea of listening, of having empathy for you know your users or or potential other users comes come could come maybe from from some of that background. If you've got a sociology student who's familiar with conducting, you know, quantitative and qualitative research and ethnographic or whatever else research that has to, I would, I would assume that helps.
margalus: Right.
wendy: Oh, for sure, yeah.
margalus: So yeah.
wendy: I mean, we have a class kind called Applied Angel Investing, which is something I'm really proud of. It's one of our, you know, when you ask now what, that's that's one of our newer things. And in that class, the students, these two students actually were in that class.
wendy: and The students get to do due diligence. They act as venture capitalists. So, and they make real, we have a fund that they're investing. And a student in there had never and never taken a business class.
wendy: He was a psych major. And now he's working at a and social impact fund. But it's an it's an an investment fund. Yeah.
margalus: That's wonderful.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: That's wonderful. So, I mean, that speaks a lot to the collaborative dynamics that you have at the space.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: Just the collisions that you probably, just by having a space where people can be around each other, the kind of random, you know, atoms colliding with each other in the space and learning from each other.
wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
margalus: I'm really interested in the mentorship component that you talked about as well. what What does it look like? how does And and how does that how does that affect kind of the collaborations that happen at the Simon Center?
wendy: Sure. So the only formal mentorship we have right this second is through the Entrepreneurs Accelerator. So if you get into the accelerator and we take between eight and 12 companies every year, then we match you with a mentor. And I do that a little bit differently from the way other folks around town or other centers do it.
wendy: Often you have a stable of mentors who you know maybe mentor a couple people and they do it you know several times a year kind of thing. we we I just really curate it and go out and find you know either the industry that that business is in or maybe the stage.
wendy: Find somebody who has expertise right there.
margalus: Yeah. Yeah.
wendy: So you know I have to go deep in my own network and in our alumni network for the mentor matching. So that's where we find those folks. Students who just come and meet with us, you know, who have an idea, want to have a conversation, one of the I think best things we can do for them is just make introductions to them, to alums, for example, or others we know who can counsel them. So that's less formal, but it's definitely, when they say, hey, don't you have $500 or $1 ,000, do you have a grant for me? No, but I can make you an introduction, and that is so much more valuable, right?
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: So we handle it right now informally, but we've talked a lot about whether that's a way for us to scale, who we serve both among the student body and also among you know entrepreneurs in the city and the ecosystem, which is why we are talking about doing a pilot with Traction 5, who you mentioned before. And they have a platform for scaling mentorship that will ideally bring in, again, more alums and and more interested supporters of folks who like the stuff we're doing and we can do more matching. But I have taken a very sort of hands -on role, you know, position with that so far. So this going to sort of a more technology model, we'll we'll see, we'll see how it goes.
margalus: Yeah, it's it's hard. i mean the the The worry I typically have, at least if I'm shifting to technology, is what is it what what personal elements might it remove that that that we had before. You don't want technology to replace.
margalus: the relationships and the people and and all sorts of stuff that like that.
wendy: yeah
margalus: And yet you also want, whether it's a technological system or some other one, to have some systems in place. I think of, you know, I'd like to hope at least that the the centers I created and the the bachelor's program that I created at DePaul, that there were systems that were strong enough in place so that, you know, once I left DePaul and came here, that those there was still some longevity to those things.
wendy: Yeah. Yeah.
margalus: and And so that goes to sustainability. that That's talking about how you how do you build a sustainable ecosystem.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: And I'm interested in hearing like what are your thoughts on that balance, too, though? like Building a sustainable ecosystem is important.
wendy: okay
margalus: And also, keeping that human element and those relationships that you've developed is is important as well. How do you think about balancing those things?
wendy: Well, so we have a new entrepreneur in residence and he's bringing you know a lot a huge network and a lot of experience and and it's you know nothing but but beneficial to the center and so I think whoever is in leadership and whatever team you have is going to change the flavor and and you know ideally expand the you know yeah your your impact in the end. So I think it's important really to to leave some space for yeah the individual and to let it shift. I think it's OK if it shifts.
wendy: right but certainly we should be using tools that are gonna make our jobs easier and and you know let us get more done and make things clearer for people.
margalus: That's right
wendy: I mean, but what I, my concern around technology is, one of them is that, well, one is the reason people do mentorship is because they wanna meet other people.
wendy: So like we do a call where all the mentors get to get together. Cause they're like, you know very social, interactive, extroverted for the most part that to people who want to do this and so they they really enjoy that and I find unless you've had a really good mentor and been so lucky right as I have that model a lot of people don't really know what they're supposed to do what does it mean to mentor right so you got to coach the mentor sometimes and you know and again the mentees how do you handle a mentor we do spend a lot of time making sure that that the entrepreneurs know how to
wendy: get the most out of that relationship, manage it well, you know be respectful. It's human relationships, right? It's what it's all about.
margalus: Right, right.
wendy: it It doesn't just happen because a computer matched you.
margalus: Right. You know, and I think that's excellent kind of advice as well for people who are thinking about developing these spaces is is that, you know, one of the one of the pitches i I give when I talk about any of the centers that I've done is that it's a community -led initiative first.
margalus: And it goes kind of wherever the community is currently at.
wendy: yeah
margalus: It's not me doing this thing for the community. it's the it's All I'm doing is creating kind of those systems that you've talked about before, the constructs, and then the community sees however they they'd like to see the direction of the space.
wendy: Yeah. Yeah.
margalus: and So that's like one of the things that I like to lead with, but but I'm wondering you know if if somebody's looking to
wendy: yeah
margalus: to start their own kind of initiative, academic institution or or otherwise. What are some, and at a very high level, maybe it's community and maybe there are additional things, you know how do you, what what are some pieces of advice They could be strategic.
margalus: They could also be tactical, quite frankly.
wendy: like
margalus: You could tell me you're using MailChimp right now and it's been like an excellent newsletter service. But what are some you know things that you'd point people to, literature, technology, strategic ways of thinking or otherwise, that that could you know you know help them get started?
wendy: We do use MailChimp. I'll be sure to put you on my newsletter. and as so Yeah, put put everybody on the newsletter.
margalus: Please do.
wendy: and and Because you never know, and it it goes to junk for so many people, and it's so frustrating. But then I know and about, and somebody says, oh, yeah, I read about that in your newsletter.
wendy: And I'm like, you read my newsletter? It's just so exciting to to know that there are folks out there who you might not even know are following your support in you.
wendy: So that's important.
margalus: that's right
wendy: But more broadly, Let's see. Well, something I have been thinking about as I was thinking about talking with you is the idea of Give give First, which is some there's an organization here in town called Upsurge.
wendy: It talks about it a lot. They got it, I think, from a Brad Feld book about you know entrepreneurial support organizations.
margalus: That's right.
wendy: And it's absolutely sort of my instinct. And what i before I heard about that term, what what I did here. And that is you know in line with the listening tour, like I did have a little bit of sponsorship money. So anytime anybody came to me, i you know I modeled good partnership. And I said, yeah, of course. you know I'll show up for your event. And I said I'd show up. And I did show up. And if I could sponsor it, I would. And you know I just was a good partner. And that's, I think, where you start to build trust is by not so much what you say, right but what you do.
wendy: Actually, I have a quote on my whiteboard. What you do is who you are. that That's from the Feld book.
margalus: Mm.
wendy: So I do think that's an important way to enter a new space, right, is with that approach of giving, so especially, right, in higher ed, where there's a real scarcity mindset.
wendy: And the fact that you're coming into a space and and especially at but coming funded into this environment, a lot of people think that just means less money for me, less support for me for my my research, my projects. Like the fact that you're here means that something is being taken away from me, right? And so that's what you have to neutralize or try to do by by give first and just by being a good partner.
margalus: Yeah, i I've heard higher ed described and as as a lot of independent contractors brought together under one institution.
margalus: Everybody's kind of working. And because of the incentives that are built into the system, of course, that of course it makes sense. you know You're looking for tenure, for instance.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: You need to work in your field, and you need to produce work in what you're doing. And so it may not matter what somebody in another field is doing unless they can help you achieve that specific objective. It is, as a result, right zero zero sum in many ways.
margalus: Funding is one way.
wendy: Yeah.
wendy: Yes.
margalus: you know These are all kind of things that you have to navigate. you know In addition to giving first and providing you know potentially funding for sponsoring events and things like that, how do you how do you yeah and at the higher ed level,
margalus: you know I don't know if there's any more you can say about it really now that i'm thinking about it but so i apologize if this is a redundant question now but like those are those those seem like lessons learned you know that's an and and that's an entrepreneur entrepreneurial kind of way of thinking to how do i how do i develop my stakeholders how do i get them interested in what i'm doing what are some other valuable lessons.
wendy: i this Yeah. Yeah.
margalus: that you've learned as you've been you know, your initiatives and, and also if you have any more to elaborate on, on, you know, the, the, and I want to call it zero sum component, but we'll let let's say just developing, interested parties component.
margalus: Well, feel free to elaborate on that too.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: I'm i'm really interested in all of that.
wendy: So this seems kind of boring and obvious, but but low hanging fruit, you know. So it cost me nothing to write a letter that said, I am interested in applying to host the GCEC, the Global Consortium of Entrepreneurship Centers, you know, Global Annual Conference. Right, I just wrote a letter. And then they said, oh,
wendy: That's kind of interesting, read as a proposal.
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: So we were brand new, there's no reason that they would have had any reason to select us. But it turned out they wanted to be on the West Coast and we wrote a, or on the East Coast rather, and and we wrote a compelling proposal and the time was right and the the proposal was right.
wendy: So you know again, I had time, I was just starting out, I had time to to throw that out there. so So that was low hanging through, it and maybe it's also a little bit of like, you know, throw stuff against the wall, see what sticks, right?
wendy: Just try things. Try things and see, run with it when when you get anybody, you know, if anybody will pass you the ball, go as fast as you can.
margalus: Bye.
wendy: And so, and and the event thing, the hosting the conference was something that I knew how to do.
wendy: and that you know I used to to plan educational study tours. I would put 300 people on a cruise ship in Russia and and move them around. i like I knew how to book sort of hotels and and arrange meals and stuff like that way early in my career. And Loyola is also so just very good at that. like we do Our commencement is gorgeous. or like The campus events are just like stunning. And so I was able to borrow some resources in terms of the person who does a lot of that work.
wendy: and and And so that was something I knew how to do, whereas a lot of the things I think about starting the center were I had to make them up or I'd never done them before. So I guess leaning on stuff you know you know how to do well and bringing it into the new realm.
margalus: Building the bridge as you're crossing it. is is the You mentioned if anybody will pass you the ball, run as fast as you can.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: I interviewed Ellen Schmidt Devlin from University of Oregon. She's a Nike executive, actually, who's running the sports management program at University of Oregon and some other exciting initiatives.
wendy: Okay.
margalus: And she mentioned that she tends to run as fast as she can. And sometimes in academia, what you have how you have to phrase that is, I'm blocking and tackling for you. I'm not trying to run ahead of you.
wendy: Yes.
margalus: that This is like totally a question not in my list of questions. And it's just on my mind right now. And I don't have any other question than, like is that something you've encountered? Or how do you yeah how did he go about that?
wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the tons of discomfort where with anybody going fast and almost like, you know, take them down because that's dangerous.
margalus: Right.
margalus: right
wendy: Okay.
margalus: right right
wendy: So, whereas I'm saying no, no, like you won't guess what? Like you're going to learn for like, this is something we need to start trying. So that that's a real tension.
wendy: for sure. One of the things I was thinking about is like, yeah you know, you've already heard me talk about partnership, but like, I'm like a sort of a radical collaborator.
margalus: Right, right, right.
wendy: Like I will you know collaborate with anyone and and that is not the vibe. but it's Especially if it's another institution, another cool you know collaborative, competitive institution.
margalus: Right.
margalus: Right.
wendy: So that is a place where people have gotten very uncomfortable and it's like, m if higher it's gonna survive, this is something we have to learn And so I think there's a lot like that where I think, yeah, we can be the model and, you know, whether or not people are ready to follow or want to follow, that's hard.
margalus: Yes.
wendy: That we want to, because we spend a lot of time trying to measure, to to collect metrics that that speak to our impact and the value of our work,
wendy: yeah And because we want to improve our service to our customers, which is our students, we are looking into CRM, you know, customer management software like Salesforce. And, you know, nobody else on campus is using that at all. And there's acknowledgement in our strategic plan that we need to to start to take advantage of some of these technologies, but definitely not the readiness, definitely not the funds.
wendy: And so whether we might be able to make an argument to do that, and probably today we'll see.
margalus: Mm hmm. eat TBD, right, right.
wendy: and
margalus: you you know To that point and and to the everything you just said about moving fast as well, you know I keep a quote on my my primary notebook that says, great knowledge can be revolutionized.
margalus: And that's kind of like the reminder I try to, you know like hey when i'm when I'm speaking with my colleagues and i'm when I'm speaking with other individuals, the liberal arts bring a massive amount to the table, higher ed brings a massive amount to the table.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: It's great knowledge.
wendy: Yeah.
margalus: And some of it, you know there's there's a a revolutionary component to it as well. I'm wondering, you know as you're looking forward to, as you're looking to the future trends of higher ed, entrepreneurship and innovation centers, et cetera, what's right for being revolutionized?
wendy: Well, i I think higher ed is being revolutionized whether right we're ready or not. And it's a tough space because it's a place that sticks by our history for plenty of good reason, but but also a lot of problems with the way we've done things in the past.
margalus: Right.
wendy: So the thing I think about the most is the demographics changing and that that you know is just going to force changes in the way funding works for schools, and and what students want to do, and you know what they look like when they come in. So I think that's exciting, and that that's kind that's just happening. like we don't have to But but what we do have to, I mean, if we want to do a good job of it, I think we are prepared for for who the students are and and you know if that they're changing, right making sure you're supporting who they are when they come in.
wendy: Yeah, I mean to me it's exciting right to to see what will come and, and the task is just like readiness to to be there for it versus trying to fend it off.
wendy: you know It struck me that a lot of
margalus: Right.
wendy: what we hear about AI is, some you know, I just heard a story and it was like, how is AI being handled on campus?
margalus: Hmm.
wendy: It seems to be like AI is about college students, often in the press. I'm not not sure why, but this is an interesting place, right, for that conversation, for sure.
wendy: So I don't know, those are some of the things I think about
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: and in terms of larger trends.
margalus: Well, if you get, if you get the, the answer capital T a, uh, to the AI question, please let me know.
wendy: significant
margalus: I find it exciting. I'm trying to figure it out, but don't think I've got the capital T capital A yet. Just, uh, lots of questions that are very interesting.
wendy: yeah yeah which is Yeah, which is why it's great you know for us to be talking about it on campus.
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: but But yeah, it's going to change
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: certainly what what jobs look like.
margalus: Yeah.
wendy: So, yeah.
margalus: Wendy, that was that's that was my last question for you. This was a very good, big lightning round of of questions. I appreciate your your time. i I'd like to close with, you know, what what else do you want people to know about?
margalus: Where do you want me to to point people to who are listening? What are you up to?
wendy: Well, we don't have any time left for that. I could do another hour.
margalus: I know.
wendy: tasteton no, I just want to thank you for, for pulling me in. It's really, I'm glad I get to meet you and, you know, where we're going in the future is going to be more of the same, but, uh, I'm definitely leaning into this idea of students being able to award capital, right?
wendy: to organizations, uh, to new ventures that are, you know, giving back, into the community, they' creating a a stronger city, which ends up hiring our students, which has happened, you know which makes it a place they want to stay, which makes it a place they start their next company. So there's a really great circular success that can happen when we do kick off some investments and and train our students how to become you know investors new businesses.
margalus: That's wonderful. Great place to end. I appreciate your time. And that's that's it.
wendy: right
wendy: All right, great.
