Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Cal Callahan: Unlearning Our Cultural Programming
734 Plays2 years ago
On the show today is Cal Callahan, a retired trader, who also hosts The Great Unlearn podcast and runs Unlearn Ventures — an investment fund and incubator for forward-thinking projects. Through The Great Unlearn Podcast, Cal shares conversations with some of the world’s leading experts & performers to help men and women unlearn their way into a new way of being. You can find him at www.thegreatunlearn.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Cal Callahan
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to this week's episode of the Art of Authenticity. I'm Laura Coe, your host, and today we have Cal Callahan. Yes, he's been on the podcast before. If you didn't check out his episode, you can find it maybe two years ago, three years ago. Cal is a friend from in my twenties. We reconnected about four or five years ago. He was a trader on Wall Street, moved into doing some entrepreneurial things.
00:00:55
Speaker
And now he's gone deep into a spiritual dive in a podcast called The Great Unlearn. He's also trading in a new way. He's a fitness health relationship coach, and he's just interested in stripping away everything we've learned and building it back up for what is really true for us.
00:01:13
Speaker
I thought he's a great guest to bring on the art of authenticity as that is a deep theme of the show. He's been really thinking about a lot of stuff over the last few years since he came on last. I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Laura's New Project
00:01:27
Speaker
You can check out Cal at thegreatunlearn.com.
00:01:31
Speaker
In his podcast, I just recently went on there myself. And if you want to learn more about what I've been up to, LittleSoul.school is my new project and I've got a new series of books for all of you. They're called the Nature of Series, The Nature of Love, The Nature of Boundaries, and The Nature of Self-Love. Check it out. Enjoy today's episode and thank you guys for tuning in.
00:01:56
Speaker
Welcome to this week's episode of The Art of Authenticity. I'm Laura Ko, your host, and I am so excited to have my dear friend and repeat Art of Authenticity interview back here. Cal, hey, Cal, how
Life-Changing Moments and Awakening
00:02:10
Speaker
are you? I'm great. We were just trying to figure out the first time I was on, it was almost three years ago. Holy shit.
00:02:20
Speaker
Right? So much has changed. Yes, I know. That's what I wanted to start on. I feel like I'm in a time warp with this pandemic, but it does feel like the three years were just entirely different people. For anybody out there who hasn't heard the interview,
00:02:39
Speaker
Check it out. Cal talks about his history as a traitor on Wall Street, how he had a moment, like many people in the art of authenticity, where he had a realization that while he was successful, he wasn't doing what he loved, and he hit kind of that wall like a lot of people have on this show. And he went through all of that story, so check that out. But today, I kind of wanted to catch everybody up and go into
00:03:05
Speaker
what you've been up to and how you're redefining life with the podcast, The Great Unlearn, and you've done workshops and a book, and I know that you're still investing, but you've changed the way you're sort of approaching all of these things, right? So maybe you could start with just taking us, three years ago, came on the podcast, The Great Unlearn hadn't even launched yet, you know, kind of give us a little update what you've been up to.
Unfulfillment and Reevaluation
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah, great. And for those who don't know, I'll give you a quick snapshot. So I was a trader in Chicago for 18 years, left that business in 2013, kind of felt really good. The time was right to leave. And, you know, I guess spent the next, gosh, it's been a while now, but spent the next four or five years trying to sort out like what I meant to do. And, uh, there was a, there was a, an event,
00:04:04
Speaker
in October of 2018 where I was at the mass shooting in Las Vegas and that was really the moment that kind of popped me into this almost dissociated state of feeling that this life that I had been living and that I had created
00:04:29
Speaker
Uh in following the the kind of the rules of the road and this is what you Uh, this is what you need to do to be successful and fulfilled. I had done all those things uh to you know to to a much larger degree than I ever thought possible and while I was in las vegas in that moment felt completely unfulfilled and I guess disappointed it's not necessarily the right word isn't really casual but just like
00:04:59
Speaker
like, where did I go wrong? Like I did all the things I was supposed to do. And if my life ends right now, it felt like a waste because I had been like chasing, it was been chasing and nothing was ever enough. And so leaving that experience and then, you know, the last time we talked was, you know, seven, eight months from then,
00:05:25
Speaker
I was in this process of awakening and still in it and hopefully will always be in this process of awakening, understanding what I'm meant to do here, who am I, and really detaching from these things that I do.
Exploration and Personal Growth
00:05:44
Speaker
It's been really a large part of my process is redefining my relationship to all these things. You mentioned investing.
00:05:54
Speaker
You know, it's parenting it's being in relationship with other people Um all those things have you know You know, I was kind of sad at many different times in this almost like dark night of the soul this understanding this is where the great unlearn the podcast really comes in is examining all these ways that i've been and and really being
00:06:21
Speaker
curious about it and questioning it. Are these really my beliefs? Is this really my experience? Am I just taking other people's experiences? What is all of this? The more I've done that work, the more comfortable I've been just knowing that I don't know and I can really only rely on my own experiences. I've really been
00:06:41
Speaker
diving into having different experiences, whether it's the work, you know, you and I have done a ton of work around Akashic record readings. And that's been such a huge benefit to me just to see my world through a completely different lens. And then, you know, you mentioned workshops, like I've had a few different
00:07:02
Speaker
men's groups that I've held. And the idea with that was to bring these different experiences to a group of men who maybe would never try them. So, you know, whether it's Akashic record readings, astrology, human design, sound healing, like what are these things and how can I drop others like myself who are curious into experiences that will allow them to see themselves and the world
00:07:31
Speaker
through a completely different perspective. And so there's really been, I'd say in, you know, kind of the overarching kind of theme over the past couple of years has been exploration and experimenting. I've always been, you know, an experimenter just with some other things as well. So this feels much more intentional.
00:07:55
Speaker
Although I said the intention before may have been to numb, now it's to get a greater understanding of myself.
00:08:05
Speaker
Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So powerful and so much in there. Um, so the, the podcast is, you know, it's, it's titled the great unlearn, um, the exploration and experimentation into things like astrology and Akashic records and plant medicine and all sorts of things, right? You've, you've really sound healing. Um,
00:08:29
Speaker
So many people, including myself at one point, feel as if there's a great divide between healthy skepticism, trying things that are beneficial for your mind. Meditation has been more embraced.
00:08:45
Speaker
but then there's this line of like, oh, that stuff's weird. That stuff is, right? But what I love so much about you is like, you're just like such a dude, right? Like you're like the guy who worked on Wall Street and you put together this men's group of just like guys, like just your everyday guys and drop them into these modalities that I think don't get credit, right?
00:09:12
Speaker
I didn't I didn't respect them. I felt like they were out there or weird or something. What do you feel? So two questions. One is.
00:09:22
Speaker
I love that you were inspired to drop these guys into this experience and you've done that for yourself. But what do you feel like is the biggest barrier for people who are listening who have that kind of resistance to this stuff? What's the barrier? What would you say to those people if they're resting or struggling or feeling resistance to try them to get into this exploration? And then secondly,
00:09:50
Speaker
I want to talk about this men's group and what motivated the big drop for those guys. Yeah. Great question, Laura. I think you hit on it. This shit's weird. I don't get it. What do you mean sound? Wait, someone knows there are records that, what? It's weird. What do you have to lose?
00:10:20
Speaker
Like just play like, cause I would say if you're asking the question, even curious about it, something in your life isn't working. Okay, great. You're probably doing the same shit you've done for a long time. I had been like, what would it mean to open yourself up to something that is outside your comfort zone? Like what's the fear? Like what are you afraid of? And so like to, you know, part of,
00:10:51
Speaker
I think what I'm able to do is build trust, whether it's with the listener, you know, with the great unlearn, whether it's the guest I have on or just people that I'm around, like I don't talk a lot of shit and I really try to only talk about the things that I have experience with. And so through that, you know, these men that felt called to join, uh, the, the unlearn experience, there was already that built in trust.
00:11:21
Speaker
So they're like, fuck it, man. However they knew me, whether it's through the podcast or through friends or whatever, they just trusted me. And so they were willing to let me steer the ship. And you've been a part of both of them. I'm not coaching people. I'm kind of laying out the buffet and say, hey, this is what we're gonna try. If it speaks to you, awesome. If it doesn't, at least you know about it now.
00:11:49
Speaker
no biggie, right? You didn't spend that much of your time on it. And the people I brought on were really, I mean, in my opinion, like best in class. So it's like, you're getting the best of this experience through these teachers and guides. And so I really feel like it's an, you can have an honest assessment about the residents for you.
00:12:16
Speaker
And you had a ton of people follow up with you and do individual readings and work with you. It's like, because it's dope. And these guys wouldn't, they just wouldn't normally have
Self-Discovery Beyond Labels
00:12:28
Speaker
done it unless they held their hand to the experience. Yeah, Cal, I'm so with you. And again, you and I were those people and your podcast is around the great unlearn and mine's around authenticity and it's like,
00:12:46
Speaker
trying to encourage people to try this stuff because there is a fear. You spoke of that you don't know, but what do you have to lose? What do you think after all these years of helping people over that line? What is that fear? Do you have a sense of why
00:13:06
Speaker
Is it simply because we've been taught in our, I mean, I say it's our education system teaches us that if it's not science-based or it's not in a structured religion to not trust it, right? All the stuff that's in the middle that isn't scientifically proven with a 20-step protocol, which I worked in healthcare for 15 years. I mean, stuff is proven until it's not.
00:13:28
Speaker
Or structured religion that's been around for thousands of years. It's like all these modalities that are beautiful and have been around for thousands of years seem like they fell into some big, I don't know, cavernous like hole somewhere that it's like, and it's the middle ground where they've lost their traction for no obvious reason to me. But do you have an idea of why these things give people such pause?
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's one of the things for sure. It's maybe not quantifiable and repeatable and whatever the science lens is. And so a lot of us are taught through school that if it can't be proven through these particular methods, then it's bullshit or it doesn't work. It's like, okay, well, there's that. Then the other thing, Laura, I think people
00:14:20
Speaker
are just comfortable with where they're at. It's known, okay, this is my life. I know what I'm doing. They're trying to control for a lot of the parameters and outcomes. They don't understand that this kind of holding onto that vision really keeps them from really understanding who they are. For me, it's like getting outside of all these constructs
00:14:49
Speaker
in playing and experiencing life in new ways, and each of them have given me their own lens on who I am. Not any one of them is defining me, but they're all just different ideas of how I move through the world and what's really underneath all of it. What's in my heart? What am I called to do?
00:15:16
Speaker
These modalities for me have, again, whether it's plant medicines, astrology, Akashic records, all these things, they allow me to know myself in a different way.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah, talk to me about that for a minute because it's so profound, right? Know yourself. Because I think Cal, if I had talked to him 10 years ago and said, hey, do you know yourself? You'd be like, hell fucking yeah, I'm a traitor and I've got my wife who I love and I'm starting my family. Like this is who I am. And we would define ourselves
00:15:48
Speaker
I would have based on these sort of external labels that I would have placed on myself. I'm an entrepreneur and, and, and, and, but to know myself the way you're speaking of it, I think you're saying that sort of deeper self knowing the truth underneath those labels. Is that what you're alluding to? Yeah, I think those, those labels are the things we do. And if we don't know any better, that's who we think we are.
00:16:17
Speaker
But really what I've found is, you know, I always like to go back to the idea of resume virtues and eulogy virtues. And the resume virtues are things you're talking about. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a trader, I do investments, da da da da da da. Those are the things that get you hired for a job where the eulogy virtues are like, who are you? Like, how did you shh?
00:16:46
Speaker
How did you show up? What like real impact did you have? Um, and that to me is like getting at the core of who you are. Yeah. And then the other stuff, it just kind of falls in the more you tune into that, the more the, the, the resume stuff becomes really dope because now you're just doing shit that you love and not because you're trying to get hired for a job, but,
00:17:15
Speaker
It's stuff that is really alive in you. So it's like this thing where the more you can tap into that, your path just becomes super clear because there's no path. You're just doing, you're just in it. You're just in the present moment of what's bringing you joy, whether it's, for me, the podcast or the way I look at investments now is way different than a couple of years ago. Is there a resonance with
00:17:44
Speaker
the founders? Do I believe in the thing that they're selling? Is it fun for me? Am I excited to have my money and my energy and my time be a part of this? The days of
00:18:06
Speaker
the FOMO. I invested in a lot of things back in the day and lost a lot of money investing in things I was afraid it was going to be the next big deal and I was going to miss the wave. Just detaching from all that stuff and not trying to find my self-worth in some passive investment that I'm doing, that's fucked up.
00:18:31
Speaker
Yeah. And you said a big thing there, like self-worth, right? I mean, I think deriving self-worth from those external ways of defining your life and the things you do versus finding the worth and knowing who you really are at that deeper core level. It's a profound shift.
00:18:54
Speaker
because those things are fleeting. Like you may have a great outcome, awesome, but then it's gone and now you're looking for the next outcome and oh, that was down. So it's like this, you know, this roller coaster and it's even when you hit it, it's gone. Yeah. So that's not sustainable. No, I've ridden that way for a while. It's a disaster. It is the brain that tells you to go that way. Um,
00:19:21
Speaker
I do these Akashic Records now, as you know, and many of the listeners know, but one of the questions that I'm asked all the time right now is, what's my purpose? What's my calling? This idea of a purpose or calling within yourself versus the outcome that you strive for because it might reflect a feeling of worth.
00:19:46
Speaker
Talk to me a little bit about how you navigate your days based on this sort of purpose calling from within versus before where you would set a goal, know that it's out there, and then just, because I know you, you're a disciplined, hardworking guy when you need to be, when you want to be, and it's a way of getting things done for sure, right? There's nothing wrong with that.
00:20:10
Speaker
but setting these arbitrary goals and driving towards them versus checking in and figuring out that purpose calling and moving with your life. Talk to me a little bit about that.
Living with Joy and Authenticity
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah. For a lot of people who are very goal-oriented, I recommend trying in this idea of having an aim. You're going more in a direction versus a particular path.
00:20:38
Speaker
When we do this what we're doing is like I'm tuning into like what like in every day What would be fun for me? Like what would bring me joy today? How what would make me feel most alive and sure, I have things on my calendar that are scheduled whether it's a podcast or You know a meeting with someone or a call about some other thing But I really try to keep it it open to be able to just follow
00:21:05
Speaker
the energy of what feels really good for me. So it's really simple in that sense, but you have to understand who you are. You have to do the work to understand what brings you joy, why it brings you joy. And the more you do that work, it becomes really simple to say yes to things and to say no to everything else. But the yeses, and you and I have talked about this before, but
00:21:32
Speaker
It's got to be a hell yes. Otherwise, you know, any wavering, maybe it might be cool, might be fun. It's, it's a no, there are plenty of things out there that might be fun and could be cool, but it's not really what you're meant to do. So like you, by, by being really discerning, you create all this space and energy for you to, you know, allow these other things to come in.
00:22:03
Speaker
Beautifully put, beautifully put. Yeah, absolutely. Switching gears a little bit, community, men's group, we talked about it briefly. I know it's so important to you.
Community and Connection in Men's Groups
00:22:14
Speaker
You're so wonderful about community and creating community and bringing people into your world.
00:22:23
Speaker
What does community mean to you? Why is this so important in your life? Why particularly men's groups versus the co-ed environment? Yeah. I grew up playing sports. Hockey was my main sport. I always loved the locker room. I loved being part of a team. Then going into trading, very much part of a team.
00:22:48
Speaker
Um, and that just really resonated with with how I like to be in a group. Um And yeah, I can be a lone wolf if I have to be but I I prefer to be in You know in some sort of community space And so, you know part of you know, aside from the men's groups that that we were talking about with the other experience uh, i'd say almost a year and a half ago is having
00:23:15
Speaker
had some guys come over for a workout on Wednesday. And then the next week there was a few more. And then, you know, six weeks later we had 25 guys and you know, two months after that we were in the forties. And so it would have, you know, Wednesday workouts and guys would come over and it, it was just awesome. It was a great way for someone who had just moved to town. Hey, come to the workout. You're going to meet a bunch of guys. We'll work out. We'll have some fun. Listen to great music.
00:23:45
Speaker
And so it was just like it had a kind of beautiful energy around it, just gathering men to work out, not super intense. Um, and you actually have to choose how hard you want it to go. And there was no judgment. There was no, you know, let's fucking go and you pick that. It just didn't, it didn't work that way. Um, and honestly, because it was, you know,
00:24:11
Speaker
for lack of a return, it was my house. And that's not how I showed up. And so that kind of permeated through the group. So it became this really cool experience that ended June of last year when we, my family and I leave every summer to go to Idaho. And so when I came back, I decided that I wanted to have a really small group. 45, that was great.
00:24:39
Speaker
but that season had passed and I invited in a small group of six or eight guys. And then that has since grown to 13 with a hard stop on 13. And you know, I'd say since September, right? So we're, I don't know, five, six months in. Um, we don't always work out, but we always get together and it could be,
00:25:09
Speaker
four, five, six hours some days that we're here at my house. Maybe we go work out for 30 minutes, but again, when the weather's not great, we're just like, we're not working out today. What came to me a couple of weeks ago, because I get a lot of people asking, hey, can you start up the group? A lot, because it was awesome, but it's like, that's not what I want anymore. I want a really intimate group.
00:25:37
Speaker
the guys to come over in my space here, which you've seen, you know, like mine, we call it the unlearned layer, but I want people to come over, hang out groups of two or three guys are talking. Everybody's just kind of hanging and whatever's coming up for them. There's a space for them to share it. And maybe they're working through something that's really difficult, or maybe they're just curious about something. Maybe there's curious about crypto. We got a couple of guys who are really,
00:26:05
Speaker
you know, experts in the space, but whatever it is, it becomes this really safe container to share. I think men have a really hard time finding that. And so I feel like part of my work here is to gather men and to hold that, to set a space for men to share whatever they need to share. And so this,
00:26:34
Speaker
Again, this group, this more recent group, it came to me a couple of weeks ago, this isn't a workout group. This is actually a men's circle and some days we work out. It allowed me to actually close the container because there's a lot of great guys that would be a good fit, but you start to get outside of 10, 12, 13, now you're at 15, 20. I just know how this goes and I really wanted to keep this group
00:27:04
Speaker
sacred in the sense that we're good as we are right now. There's a lot that we're going to learn from one another. Let's keep this thing tight. And so, you know, as part of my work in developing boundaries, um, and it's hard for me to say no to somebody cause I don't want someone to feel excluded, but it's not about that. It's about keeping the integrity of the group, keeping it,
00:27:33
Speaker
Intimate enough where we can really move stuff for one another and you know what the only prerequisite for this group and it wasn't Intentional, but it was definitely the people that I was inviting in all fell into this category is no one needs anything from anybody We're in service to the group there's there's a there's a collective abundant mindset of
00:27:59
Speaker
I'm here to share whatever I can share. I'm here to learn what I can learn. And I don't need anything from anybody. And the more I spend time in that space, the more I recognize people that are coming with a bit of strategy, trying to leverage a relationship. They need something. You could just, you can see it from a mile away. Yeah. I spent a lot of, a lot of my life not being able to discern that and you know,
00:28:29
Speaker
Wasn't always great outcomes definitely have been taken advantage of nothing I couldn't handle but Now again, it goes back to we were talking about before like I'm just trying to create as much joy in my life as I can so those who need something from me They're they're not included in that Doesn't mean I don't love them and don't have a place for them, but they're not part of that inner group where
00:28:57
Speaker
we come in because, you know, this is the energy changes when someone, it just takes one person to come in and they're just trying to work out like, how can they take advantage of like what's going on? And listen, I've been there. So there's, you know, I try to reserve judgment for that because I understand that feeling of scarcity. I totally do, but I just don't welcome it into my life.
00:29:26
Speaker
brought up a bunch of key words in describing community in this way, you know, safety and service and abundant and a safe space for sharing without that transactional need, right? Like is what I'm hearing. And one thing I think about a lot lately is unconditional love and conditional, right? And sort of
00:29:46
Speaker
What it means to be unconditional loving to me is is in that abundant service It's an energy it's creating the energy right where we are all together in a space where it's not transactional It's not dependent on things. You don't owe me. I don't owe you look when somebody needs something I've come to you. You could have a direct ask, right? That's not the same as thinking about the relationship through this transactional lens, which is again what we've been
00:30:16
Speaker
trade. Cal asked me to go to a couple of events, then next time he asked me, I got to say yes because we're in some kind of transaction. It's important to have reciprocity in relationships, but that comes out of more of a
00:30:36
Speaker
internal generosity, if you will, right? That people are, again, to what you're saying in service, in abundance, right?
Unconditional Support and Non-Transactional Relationships
00:30:43
Speaker
So it's not transactional. It's not, I'm trying to get, and maybe I'll give to you at some point, it's, I'm just here in full abundance. And in my abundance, I can just give plenty. And you also feel inspired to do so as well. Is that how you
00:30:59
Speaker
think about holding this space because it feels so... It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately too for the Little Soul School is building community and thinking about this idea of being in service to each other.
00:31:15
Speaker
to me at the core of it is this confidence that you're safe, that you're comfortable, that you're able to share vulnerably. And so what does that look like? And it looks like people are there in truth without demands or needs or requests or agendas, I guess is probably one of the bigger words.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly and I love that you touched on the transactional nature of of that other way of being and Absolutely, I could ask someone for something Right as you said there could be an ask but it's not the nature of the relationship And you know one of the big things you know, I'd say the the big initiations that I'm
00:32:10
Speaker
still in process of is being able to receive really easy to give harder to receive. So to be in a group like this, I'm able to receive and, um, it doesn't always look like you would expect, you know, there, there are people that have gifts in other ways, um, that I'm super grateful for. And, you know, got guys show up,
00:32:40
Speaker
And they're just, they're always just happy to be here because we never know what's going to come out of a session. We don't have any expectations. We're just happy to be with one another. And then just magic flows. It's, it's just so cool. It's like, it's so easy. And I think that that's part of the learning that if you, if you, if you again, understand who you are,
00:33:07
Speaker
and you can tap into this idea of abundance, then you start to attract that in. You start to be able to create the life and surround yourself with the people that fit with that. You start to be able to rather quickly see who doesn't fit into that idea. Again, it's not like you kick them out of the tribe, but
00:33:35
Speaker
They have their own place, maybe in an outer circle, but you only have so much time. You only have so much energy. So saying yes to someone who's not in alignment with me, and I don't mean with ideals and politics and that stuff. I mean, can we just be here for one another and let what flows flow?
00:34:01
Speaker
and just marvel at the magic that happens. If we can do that, then we can hang. Yeah. It's fascinating to me how difficult it is to just be in the presence of each other and allow ourselves to be in our truth and what needs to be in place for us to feel safe enough to do that.
00:34:28
Speaker
on a consistent basis where in the end it feels like the generosity is flowing in both directions. Yeah. You talked about receiving is difficult. What lesson do you feel like you're working on most right now? What do you feel like you're healing working on? What's top of mind for you lately? Yeah. I think
00:34:54
Speaker
Through my experience growing up and through college and in work life, I kind of tapped into this idea of resiliency and being able to handle myself and not need help from anybody to kind of prove that I got it, that I'm good, I'm self-sufficient. And I think that's important to have that
00:35:24
Speaker
But I think there's some unconscious sense that if I let go of that, then, um, I'm less than, you know, if I ask for help, if I receive help. Um, and I know intellectually that that's not true, but I haven't been able to untangle that all the way.
00:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's another important one, right? There's that process where it becomes intellectually clear, but then the knowing in your body, the integration into your sense of self,
00:36:12
Speaker
learns it so it becomes habituated and part of who you are when you walk day to day, right? It's like, okay, there's something off, then you read, study, do things, maybe do some modality, something that helps you tap into the awakening. Oh, shoot, I struggle
00:36:34
Speaker
with receiving and then there's, okay, I know that, but what does that mean? How do I undo this? How does this look in my life? Right. Um, and that's such a long process too. And having the compassion with yourself to move through that can be really challenging, right? I mean, that, that brings up shame and yes, you have for sure. And that's, you know, it's a part of my work recently in a few, um, plant medicine ceremonies has been,
00:37:05
Speaker
just being, you know, in this active receiving and like literally receiving during, you know, whoever's there, them showing up for me and how good that felt. And again, it's just like re-patterning that idea that if I need help then
00:37:31
Speaker
I'm not as resilient as I thought I was, right? But it also, yeah. And it runs counter to like my whole concept of being in community and showing up for one another. And so when I know that when I don't receive, I'm actually robbing someone of the opportunity to show up for me and that doesn't feel good. It's so funny. I mean, this is one for me I'm working on and lately when somebody gives me a compliment, I forced myself to stop.
00:37:59
Speaker
and go, thank you, and not reciprocate. Because my way of deflecting, receiving is to quickly, oh, I minimize, oh, it's no big deal. And then I say something, but you've been so helpful in these 10 ways.
00:38:17
Speaker
I never, I never let it saturate in that way. And over the last month or two, I've been practicing this and I, the more I sit in the silence and allow it to go into my body, the more I receive it, right? The more I feel it, the more I start to believe and trust that this person authentically meant it. I give them the chance to express themselves. Cause to your point, right? They're, they're attempting to do this for a reason. They, they want to.
00:38:46
Speaker
Um, and you're sort of taking that away from them unconsciously. Uh, and yeah, it's like so, it's so habituated and it's, it's very, um, it's part of culture too. Oh no, no, it didn't do anything. It's no big deal. Right. And it's, it's like, shh, quiet, just let them say.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yes. I've actually done a pretty good job with that one. I can receive a compliment and not feel that I need to turn it around. I hear what you're saying. I used to really struggle with that one.
00:39:22
Speaker
So talk to me about plant medicine.
Insights from Plant Medicine
00:39:25
Speaker
Microdosing is like the phenomenon right now. Companies are coming out with, the FDA approvals are coming through. I feel like I can't turn left or right without hearing about people experimenting or thinking about it or expressing the value of it. And you've been talking about it for quite a while. How has it changed your life? What is the value? If somebody out there is like,
00:39:51
Speaker
How are we just getting high? What is this really? Is this a value? Why would somebody try this? What kind of person is it for and how has it benefited you? Yeah. Great question. A lot to unpack there. For one, if you are called to it, make sure you find a proper guide.
00:40:19
Speaker
and you know they always talk about set and setting so have the right mindset that you're doing this um not to just go get fucked up but to really explore you know who you are and that relationship to self um is usually a good place to start uh in the right setting um who's going to be you know where is it going to be who's going to be in the room and again back to the guide who's the guy do
00:40:49
Speaker
like do your homework because these are these are powerful spaces and They can you know, you definitely need to go in with your um Some healthy skepticism in the sense that It can it can leave a mark on you that's takes a long time to undo um, so don't wait into these spaces lightly
00:41:17
Speaker
For me, I've had multiple experiences. Some of them were not as discerning and they were challenging. Yeah, there was something to be learned from that. But as I've made my way through the plant space, I know what a proper guide looks like. I know what the proper setting looks like. A lot of people, myself included, are
00:41:47
Speaker
really attracted to blasting off and having this huge experience. But I'll say the last two experiences that I had were really gentle and really meaningful and really powerful. So my ideas from the past that you need to blast off to really have an experience is not true, not in my experience. And so lately I've worked a little bit with
00:42:19
Speaker
Some MDMA and some plants that are like MDMA As well as a little bit of mushrooms and so it's just like again, like trusting the guide knows what I need in that moment and They've allowed me and this is a common Experience for people but they've allowed me to access parts of me that Maybe I couldn't otherwise get to maybe there's too many layers of armoring and
00:42:49
Speaker
um, you know, protection to get into those tender spots, but it allows, allows me to get in there to really hold it without judgment, without guilt, without shame, and just work in that space, you know, and then to maybe have an experience within that, that I can take when I'm not in the medicine anymore and be like, Oh, okay. I had this imprint of what that felt like. So now I know.
00:43:18
Speaker
that feels really true for me. Okay. So where, where is that showing up in my life? Where am I not allowing it to show up? So just kind of gives you this a different perspective on, on who you are. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. It's the, you know, those, those protective barriers around these unconscious patterns that we really
00:43:46
Speaker
It's just like we don't even know that they're there and they're so hard to move through. It's such a beautiful way of putting it. So, Kel, you've got The Great Unlearn. You have a book coming out. If people are wanting to check out more about you, learn about your podcast, where can they... Are you coaching right now? Where can they find you and what's going on? Yeah, thanks. I'm not doing any coaching right now.
00:44:13
Speaker
Probably the best way. I mean, my website's thegreatunlearn.com. All the kind of podcast stuff is there. Obviously, you can find the podcast anywhere, any of those podcast platforms. And then on Instagram, cal.calahan. I post a little bit on there, but it's, yeah, not as prolific as I once was. Those are probably the best two places. And I hope the book
00:44:40
Speaker
The book will probably be out in a couple of months. Not really sure on that. We're still kind of in process with it, but excited for that to come out as well. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, I'm so excited you came back. I can't believe how much change has happened in three years. Thank you for sharing your story with us today. Awesome. Thanks for having me on, Laura.