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Best of 2019 Jacqueline Sinclair: Art, Personal Balance, and Jazz
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In this episode of the Art of Authenticity, we are joined by the wonderful Jacqueline Sinclair! Jacqueline is the Artist Director at Joel Hall Dancers in Chicago and has pursued a life in dance as long as she can remember. We chat all about her journey to this point and the decisions she made along the way that have defined her. We also talk about finding the passion for dance in high school and her early and instinctual attraction to jazz.
Jacqueline repeatedly says that from that age she ‘just knew’ that dance is what she wanted to do and had to find a way to make this a reality. This ‘knowing’ that she refers to is difficult to pinpoint but is also something ever-present in her life. She does identify the intuitive feeling and the influence that the act of dancing had on this intuition and she had serious epiphanies while actually dancing, accessing trance-like states and what she calls her sweaty realizations. For a tremendously inspiring conversation, be sure to join us!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:17
Speaker
Welcome to this week's episode of The Art of Authenticity. I'm Laura Ko, your host, and thank you guys once again for tuning in. We've got Jacqueline Sinclair joining us. Jackie is the artistic director. She just took over for the Joel Hall Dancers and Center here in Chicago.
00:00:34
Speaker
If you don't know of them, it's a 44 year old dance studio with performances.
Career Transition: Dancer to Director
00:00:40
Speaker
They've been doing something called Urban Jazz Dance. Joel is a legend here in Chicago and Jackie has been dancing with the studio for 28
00:00:50
Speaker
years and i would list the things she's danced in but it would apparently there's about six shoe boxes filled with the different program she's been part of so suffice it to say it's been an incredible career after dancing with joel she moved into rehearsal director assistant artistic director and now is the current artistic director.
00:01:11
Speaker
She also runs a dance program in Chicago for a high school and figured out a way to balance both this passion of hers dance and a desire to earn a living as a dancer.
Balancing Passion and Financial Stability
00:01:25
Speaker
We dive into it today. If you're somebody who is trying to find a balance, think about how to do the thing you love while having success in the traditional sense, having financial success or
00:01:38
Speaker
stability in your life. This is what Jackie has thought about a lot, and she dives into the discipline, the sacrifice, and all the different elements that have helped her build a life that she truly loves. This is somebody filled with passion who has spent a life both maintaining a sense of success in a traditional sense and following her passion. I hope you love today's show. If you're interested in checking out the Joel Hall Dancers and Center, JoelHall.org.
Discovering a Passion for Dance
00:02:04
Speaker
Thanks again for tuning in.
00:02:06
Speaker
Welcome to this week's episode of the Art of Authenticity. I'm Laura Coe, your host, and today we've got Jacqueline Sinclair joining me actually in my house. Hey, Jackie. Hi, Laura. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. So for those of you who don't know, she runs the Joel Hall Dancers and Center, a dance studio in Chicago. We'll have all the links on the site as always. She has created an incredible dance program at a school here in Chicago, Maine South. Correct. Yeah. Has also been a dancer her whole life for 28 years.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yes. Longer than some of you have probably been alive or listening, but sorry for that dig.
00:02:43
Speaker
and is now the newly appointed artistic director. So thanks for joining us. And I want to hear all about the new artistic director role and everything you have going on. But first, as always, we like to kind of go back a little, understand people's stories.
Journey to Professional Dance
00:02:58
Speaker
So if you wouldn't mind, I love your story because so many people who come on the show have more of a turning point moment. They're 20, 30,
00:03:06
Speaker
They're something they're doing in their life that they're successful at, that they're enjoying, but they don't necessarily have the passion, the joy. But you're somebody who kind of found what you loved young in your teens. So can you take us back sort of what it was like leading up to finding dance and that moment that you really understood this is what you wanted to do with your life? And then I want to chat about, you know, life as a dancer.
00:03:30
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, it was in my teens that I started formalized dance, but the seeds were planted prior. You know, I would create pieces of choreography on roller skates in the backyard and invite the neighbors over as I would perform for them. I would create touring dances where I would go from doorbell to doorbell and I would be performing for the neighbors. I'm sure they were looking out the window like, oh crap, it's the Sinclair kid again. Don't answer. Wait a minute. Didn't they have to paint?
00:04:00
Speaker
These were all free shows at this moment. If they're checking you out from behind the curtain, that's cheating, right? Right, they had to wait for the curtain to open. This love and passion was definitely something that was innate that, I don't know, perhaps I was born with because it was very clear very early on that it was just as important as breathing for me to express through movement.
00:04:25
Speaker
So my parents decided as I was young that they would enroll me in some dance classes because we would go out to eat and I would be cartwheeling around the table and under and over and we doing like flips off this item. Everything. No fear. No fear. Skinned knees all the time. I don't know why, but they dressed me in sun dresses always in the summertime and skinned knees and bruises and you know, no broken bones. No.
00:04:52
Speaker
No, no broken bones. It's like a cat. You know, they enrolled me in a tap class. This is my, you know, famous Be My Baby, Bone Will Be story. They enrolled me in a tap class at three. And I remember just struggling to stand on one leg. I couldn't vivid image of trying to do my shuffle and thinking, oh, this is hard to balance on one leg. And I struggled to understand that. Like, your life is all about balance.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, at three, I don't know, there was something about the tap that it was, it was not the calling moment. Yeah, and it was, you know, the bumblebee thing. It wasn't quite it. I didn't stick with it at that point. I moved on to try some modern dance. That wasn't it either. Though I enjoyed it, it wasn't a defining moment for me. And then I took a jazz class. And it was exactly at that moment I can still
00:05:46
Speaker
I almost remember the first jazz class, just the fire ignited the way I felt, just the enthusiasm.
Dedication to Jazz Dance
00:05:55
Speaker
So, you know, the sweaty epiphanies that I still speak about with the dance company that I run today, it was definitely a different type of sweaty epiphany when it came to jazz dance. And so something ignited in your body was like that excitement, that enthusiasm,
00:06:12
Speaker
And you're young, you're childlike, so there's a way in which you just lean right into that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's an overall high firm endorphins, et cetera, that we get as we exercise, but this was far beyond that. It was something much deeper. It was speaking to my soul. And as we get older and we find things that really speak to us, the problem is we get in our heads. Yes. Yeah. But when you're young like that,
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah, clean. Yeah. And I was never very verbal kid. I didn't like to talk a lot. And so this was my expression. Yeah. So fast forward, you start taking dance classes or when when did you
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, it was high school where I started to do formalized dance. And because I had a natural aptitude for it, I was getting some recognition from teachers, which led to great encouragement, which was huge for me. Just the acknowledgement that there was something that I loved that I was also finding some success doing. So having some, you know, great role models to inspire and give encouraging words was huge.
00:07:20
Speaker
And then I start to take, you know, seeking out jazz. And so Illinois High School Dance Festival, which the company will be performing at this year, comes around. Full circle. Full circle. Lots of full circles in my life. Yeah. And Illinois High School Dance Festival comes around and immediately I'm looking at the jazz offerings. And Joel Hall is synonymous with jazz dance.
00:07:43
Speaker
very first selection, first class, first choice that I want is the urban jazz class. And so there's hundreds of kids in an auditorium. I work my way all the way up to the front in my white jazz shoes and white leg warmers. And I can't believe you admit to that. I had several cute haircuts too. That guitar was an inspiration at one moment. Keep that one. Oh, there are photos.
00:08:11
Speaker
And so, you know, I was so
Passion, Mentorship, and Jazz
00:08:13
Speaker
anxious to see everything that he had to offer and so sought out taking classes at his studio, driving anywhere that the studio was located to take class, and then dancing in a high school group.
00:08:26
Speaker
moving into master class with Timo Celine. He came to my high school and said, I have this workshop that I'm hosting at Columbia College and I'd love for you to take it. So in this process, do you ever have doubt? Do you ever say to yourself,
00:08:42
Speaker
you know, what am I doing? Maybe I should explore other things like this is just a hobby or it's too hard or I want to quit or how did you overcome difficult days or did he just not have a lot of those? You know what? It's hard. I'm asking my body to do things that it doesn't naturally want to do. It's rigorous. Physically, emotionally, you're asking yourself to stretch, grow and learn all of these different ways in which
00:09:10
Speaker
to develop character. And so no, it's not easy. But was there ever a moment where I was like, oh, this is just too much work or too much effort? Not a moment ever. Interesting. Or self-doubt, like maybe I don't have the chops. Maybe I'm not. No, I just knew that if I kept working, that it was going to be attainable. It never felt like it was out of reach. You know, I think that also goes into being realistic about what you're ready for at any given moment. And I think even
00:09:40
Speaker
Even young, knowing what I was ready for was something that was instrumental in moving to the next step. If I'm entering into a ballet class that's way too difficult for me, then it's defeating, right? And you're not setting yourself up for success. So I think luckily there was some good guidance and some good internal guidance that led me to take the next step that was what I was ready for, what the universe had planned for me.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you're bringing up something really important that because it might be easy for you, you're, you know, saying quickly, but I just want to back up a little bit because internal guidance to what's comfortable for you taking steps that make sense. A lot of times, you know, somebody wants to write a book and they want to be New York Times bestseller, and that's all they're thinking about, or they want to start a company, right? I hear this all day long, and I want to make sure that, you know, it's going to be successful. I want to make a million dollars. I want to, I mean, the internet, it's,
00:10:36
Speaker
everybody I make six figures, I make six figures, here's how to make six figures, right? But those are much more end game goals than they are what it looks like in the day to day to get to those types of goals. And so similarly, for dance, right, like or the arts,
00:10:53
Speaker
If you want to be discovered or you want to have that sort of penultimate moment, it happens in microsteps. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you asked me did I ever think or desire to be the artistic director of a professional dance company, I never had that much forethought. I looked at each day, each class, each movement with a thorough lens and
00:11:21
Speaker
an entire need to analyze and define what that was, look at it under a microscope, understand it, feel it, express it. And that was so fulfilling that I didn't have to keep thinking about, I want to dance in a professional company, I want to. So all of the small steps led me there. I think that it wasn't until much later in my life, actually most recently,
00:11:46
Speaker
where
Setting Realistic Goals in Dance
00:11:47
Speaker
I started to look more holistically at the goals that I wanted to achieve. I kind of joke that I just always ended up where I was supposed to be without a lot of forethought and goal setting, which is entirely true. But it is, like you mentioned, those little steps that were leading me. It's each brick in the yellow brick road, right? So I'm looking at each one of those bricks, but I'm still following my path.
00:12:11
Speaker
And I've heard you say one of your goals was to get to the auditorium theater, right? So there's nothing wrong with setting maybe that larger goal. It's a large theater in Chicago for those of you who don't live here, but seats, how many? It's one of the oldest theaters in Chicago. There are a couple thousand seats, I'm sure there. Yeah. And it's a big deal to perform there. So you had said that, but you're not obsessing over that and making everything about getting there.
00:12:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And then realistic goals too. I mean, by the time I had set that goal, I was getting ready to retire from the stage and move into directing primarily. And so, so it was some things that I wanted to achieve before moving into directing only, which now I found is to be just 100% fulfilling, just like I thought, you know, only stage was going to be my
00:13:02
Speaker
that was all I was ever going to want to do was to perform on stage. But being open enough to knowing how your passion evolves, I think that a lot of times we get stuck in, I am XYZ, I am this, I am a dancer, I am a teacher, I am
00:13:20
Speaker
And then we stick with those as dreams, even though they're not still truly our authentic dream any longer. So I think a way in which we self-observe and ask ourselves the question
Dual Career Challenges
00:13:32
Speaker
about what is truly fulfilling to me without getting stuck in what that answer is, has also helped to lead me to where it is I want to be. If I wasn't 100% fulfilled directing, I wouldn't be here.
00:13:45
Speaker
How do you know, right? Because this is the holy grail question. I think you're really good at it. But how do you know when you're fulfilled and you're not fulfilled in something serving and not serving it as a sensation in your body mainly?
00:14:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's extremely hard to define through words because, number one, that's my second language. When I perform on stage, there is a trancing that happens. It's almost an out of body experience, which is kind of difficult for people to understand because
00:14:20
Speaker
you're so in your body at that moment that you're performing. But there's a transcendence that happens and it's truly, as we talk about Akashic Records and whatnot, it's truly what my soul is speaking about. It is the right place for my spirit, for my soul. And so when your soul feels satiated, it's an overwhelming knowledge, both physically and spiritually. I don't know if that's any more
00:14:50
Speaker
clear than when I started speaking. But it's a complete satiation of the entire being. So not just physically, but all over. And I think most people think of it as in their heads that they get clear in their minds, right?
00:15:07
Speaker
You would never describe it that way. No, actually. Right. And I didn't even say in my mind as I was describing it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, that's usually the last. That's usually the last I find. If I if I allowed decisions to come too much through just forethought and thinking and my mind, then I'm second guessing. And because that's not how I operate. That's not how Jackie Sinclair operates primarily. Other people do. Right. That's their their.
00:15:37
Speaker
You know, here's my list of pros and cons and here's my, you know, and they wrap their head around things and that's how they inform life decisions. That's not how I inform mine. Yeah. And I mean, people have heard me on the show say this so many times, but I think we've learned that. But I think most of the people have come on the show who have an authentic life. I've learned that's one small piece of it. But the actual wisdom intelligence comes from
00:16:02
Speaker
somewhere deep inside which you can't point to and it's impossible to talk about and there's no words for right so this show is kind of trying to do our best to hear it from people's different angles right right right yeah okay so you're you find jazz you meet Joel give everybody a quick story who's Joel Hall what's his unique brand of dance
00:16:23
Speaker
Joel Hall is born and raised in Chicago, comes out of Cabrini Green. He has some challenges in life that he finds his way out of through dance, through choreography, through expressing in movement.
00:16:39
Speaker
He codifies an urban jazz technique, which is, you know, jazz as a vernacular form is for the people. It's of the people, it's a relationship between people, and it stems from social dance. And so codifying urban jazz is Joel's experience of his life and blending it with movement and music.
00:17:02
Speaker
Written 70 ballets. Yes. Yes. Probably more too. We've been archiving the 45 years worth of work and I keep discovering pieces that have sort of long been forgotten. So I would challenge that number. And if he needs more to make us all feel.
00:17:22
Speaker
less successful with our lives. Very cool. You danced with Joel for the full 28 years that you were teaching. Tell us a little bit about that mix. Yeah, I started teaching at a high school at the same time that I was asked to apprentice in the company.
00:17:40
Speaker
So as soon as I graduated from Columbia College, I was missing jazz deeply. It's a modern based school. So the very first day upon graduation, I walked into Joel's studio and took a jazz class with Albert Williams, who's passed since. And he said to me, Jackie, I have a performance in two weeks and I have somebody who's injured. Could you step in? And, you know, that's the 20 something year old. Of course I can.
00:18:11
Speaker
And so I perform at an event titled Dances in the Hall, which is an in-studio performance that we actually still host. And Joel came to see the show, and he was like, where did you come from, and who are you? Because of course, as I had taken class throughout high school, it wasn't with a lot of regularity. And so he said, come and take my class. And so I started taking his breathing class, which I'm now teaching.
00:18:39
Speaker
And then I started taking the breathing class and he said, no, no, no, no, I want you to come and take the 630 professional class. And I was scared out of my mind, but I put on my white jazz shoes and showed up because when Joel tells you to come to class, I'm joking. But it was still the white jazz shoe era.
00:19:05
Speaker
And of course, when Joel tells you to come to take class, you come to take class. So I started taking the professional level class and he asked me to apprentice in the company.
Sacrifices in the Arts
00:19:14
Speaker
I started working with the company and was yet again, 100% positive that this was home.
00:19:21
Speaker
family where I was supposed to be, how I was supposed to express myself, the air that I needed to stay alive. And then I worked my way into full company member. Then I became the rehearsal director and assistant artistic director before now transitioning to artistic director.
00:19:40
Speaker
So, so many people come on the show and this show is really interested in this intersection between success and finding purpose, right? And I got interested in it because I felt like finding what you love is so hard. And then being successful at something is also really, really hard, right? And how do you blend those two? Because often when you find what you love,
00:20:05
Speaker
There's all this stuff out there about the secret and you just sit still in your house and it'll show up and it'll come to you or something crazy. And then success, right? It's prescriptive. If you follow these 15 steps, you will get to this place, but did you point your boat in the right direction, right? The steps you're following in what you love. And so a lot of people wake up and they look around and while they might've found success, it's not necessarily in something that's meaningful to them. You've blended the two and you did that through
00:20:35
Speaker
working as a teacher during the day and dancing at night. The discipline it takes though to be an artist that also has the ability to find success in the arts and have success in sort of the
00:20:49
Speaker
more traditional sense where you can pay your mortgage and such, right? Like you're not just working at Starbucks or whatever, which some people prefer and there's no judgment on that. But how do you talk to me about that blend because you've lived with this life, you know a ton of people who live this life.
00:21:06
Speaker
people out there who may have found what they love in the arts, but don't know how to make a living, don't know how they're afraid to start, that whole space. How did you think about that when you started working at Maine South and made the decision to be a teacher and follow your dream?
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you're on to the first step and that is what is success for that particular person. For me, I understood the whole starving artist role and we have stories about what's left in your fridge and there's white bread and there's frozen peas and you make a frozen pea and mustard sandwich.
00:21:49
Speaker
These are true stories, too, by the way. And there's a moment where you're making some sacrifices for what it is you love. But I knew for me that living as a, quote, struggling artist only was not going to be my definition of success. And I felt that it would actually hinder my success as an artist because I would be distracted by struggle, discomfort, or whatnot. So I knew that I wanted to,
00:22:18
Speaker
be able to earn enough of a living where I was going to be able to do what every other typical American could do and that is pay your bills and purchase a car if I wanted a car or if I wanted to have dinners with friends that I could do that instead of it not being an option. So I did want some sort of security with health insurance. So those were things that
00:22:46
Speaker
that I was going to strive to do in addition to creating great art and living as an artist.
Evolving Roles and Authenticity
00:22:52
Speaker
And so, you know, earning my degree was the first step and that was haphazard. I graduated from high school. I had no intention on going to college and my parents were fine with that. Okay, Jack, whatever you want to do, hugely supportive, Jackie supporters.
00:23:08
Speaker
I went to cosmetology school and they were like, okay, go ahead and do that. And I did. I went to cosmetology school at the same time that I went to high school, graduated from cosmetology school actually slightly before high school, started working in a shop and I just hated it.
00:23:26
Speaker
So the same way in which I knew from my first jazz class, like, yes, this is the road, this is the path, this is where I'm going, I 100% knew after working in a hair shop for a few weeks that that was 100% not the
00:23:43
Speaker
path that I was going to go down. And so I looked at Columbia College's schedule and I wanted to take this class, that class, this class, and that was basically full time. So though it was happenstance, I earned a degree in dance, which allowed me to
00:24:00
Speaker
apply for a part-time position at Maine South High School as their after-school dance sponsor. I started working the after-school program and fortunately, yet again, there was a person in my life who saw great things in me and really said,
00:24:17
Speaker
We want you to write the curriculum, develop the program, grow the program, teach it, et cetera. Go back and get your teacher certification and we'll hire you to do all that. I was 22. In my 22-year-old style, I went, okay.
00:24:37
Speaker
It was not a goal that I set for myself to be a teacher. But when you say, okay, was it that knowing feeling again? Yeah, probably a little stupidity and a little bit of... Meaning like you didn't know how hard it was going to be? Yeah, and it's funny because, again, Full Circle Universe just emailed me this week.
00:24:57
Speaker
And Jane Allen, she was the physical education department chair. And no, I think there was a little naivete about how much hard work it was going to be, but there was nothing harder than, you know, honing your artistic craft and
00:25:14
Speaker
I was ready for it. It was not a deterrent at all. And yeah, it was a lot. It was hard. I was dancing with Joel. I was going back to school to get my teacher certification, and I was working. So I was not just working the one after-school job at Maine South, but I was
00:25:34
Speaker
walking into any building that had people in it and I was selling myself and I walked into a home of developmentally disabled adults and I said, I want to create a dance class for your adults that will help them. It's just like when you were on the block going around.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah, I literally was doing that and I was like, dance therapy for this community and they were like, okay. I walked into a home of children who had severe deformities and disabilities.
00:26:10
Speaker
and said, I want to do this program and I want to implement a dance program for your kids. And they said, okay. So I was all over. I was teaching at a million places. I just had a little motorcycle that I would go from one place to the next. I was teaching in a law firm for the secretaries on their lunch hour, you name it. So I was doing a lot. So no, it wasn't easy.
00:26:37
Speaker
But I think it's so important, right? Because I think, and you spent your life in the arts, but I do think there's this myth about finding what you love in the arts and then just kind of...
00:26:48
Speaker
Like, the opportunities will just show up. Yeah, you know what? And I heard a lot of artists say this too. And I say it, right? Put it into the universe and it's gonna come. That's just the first step. Right. Because I know other dancers who have thrown it out into the universe and then smoke weed on their couch. And let me tell you, it didn't happen. Right. That's a true story too.
00:27:16
Speaker
So yeah, there is a huge belief that I have that putting it out into the universe is a part of it. And getting back what we put into the universe and the universe, giving us what we're ready for, I do believe in all of those phrases, some of which sound like cliches, but yeah, there's a lot of follow-up that happens with it too. A ton of sacrifice and hard work. Well, putting it out into the universe doesn't mean you just wait in your house.
00:27:43
Speaker
Or in the studio. Yeah, you're not setting the intention and then sitting in your bed It's setting the intention and then when you're out in the world
00:27:52
Speaker
things rise up to meet you, but you have to be out in the world, right? And not just at a coffee house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a balance too, somebody said to me, and I pass this bit of information on to many of my students too, somebody said to me at one point, Jack, you have to do more than just dance because all I was doing was taking class. I was in the studio. I was performing. That's all I was doing.
00:28:19
Speaker
And I completely did not understand until much later what that meant, but in order to create a rich vocabulary to speak about from an artist's point of view, the balance that you create in your life, and the balance in all areas of success too, how I define that. So yeah, doing more than just the one thing leads to balance.
00:28:42
Speaker
Yeah. You say over and over, I knew, I knew, and we talk about it for a second, but since I know, and then the second part where you actually follow that, do you think that's courage or you briefly breezed over the word Akashic record, which a lot of people out there don't know what that even means. And I didn't either until you introduced me.
00:29:03
Speaker
What allows you to follow that sense? Because I think a lot of people know, right? I think a lot of people have a gut instinct. They have a sense, they have something, but the courage or ability to listen to it, take those next steps is the harder part.
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah. And gut instinct to me is only one part. And then my belief in Akashic records is a second and different part. They overlap slightly, but gut instinct is a little more in the physical realm for me. And Akashic belief is of course more in the spiritual and that is, it's my belief that prior to coming back for another life, I feel that we have more than one.
00:29:45
Speaker
we set goals for ourselves. What it is that I want to achieve in this lifetime and those goals that we set prior to coming here come across to you if you're listening to them in this physical world. So in this life that I'm leading,
00:30:03
Speaker
I feel I'm on the correct path because I know that I've written this story. I know that I've written this journey. Again, I'm not sure if that's more clear than when I first started to describe it, but it solidifies for me that I'm on my correct journey in addition to gut instinct, working hard, finding a passion and a love. All of those things are the recipes that
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah, we taught them to say yeah. And so when you when you're sitting in the when you start cutting hair and you're like, I knew I don't want to or you know, you want to do you just have an immediate next step? Do you think you believe in yourself? Do you think it just takes courage? Is it just that you believe that you wrote this in the Akashic record? So it's
00:30:48
Speaker
not for you to question those things. It's such a hang up for people. They know they need to get out of their marriage. They know that the job they're in is awful and they've been there for 20 years. They're so clear that this isn't working, but there's something about that next step that causes so much stress. Like, where do I go next? What do I do? I don't...
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the answer to that is a little bit different at different phases in my life. So the older I get, like I mentioned previously, I think I look at things more holistically and I set more goals for myself because that's this phase right now. So just knowing for me right now is not good enough as the artistic director of a 45 year old organization.
00:31:35
Speaker
I have a huge responsibility towards those who came before me in the organization, to Joel, the students who are currently there, to the future of jazz dance in Chicago, to the future of the dancers who are coming in. And so it is with great care that I listen to my instincts, my gut, my just knowing, but coupling that with some
00:32:04
Speaker
some seriously good feedback and information. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, that's the combo, right? Okay. So to last summer announced artistic director, Joel dancers and center, you've gone on sabbatical from your
00:32:19
Speaker
second job. Tell us where you are today. Yeah. Yeah. That was the last, you know, your question about, you know, the courage and the knowing. That was one of the ones that taking a sabbatical from school, it was a big one because that's, I have always had both in order to give myself meaning the
00:32:44
Speaker
work at the high school and the work at Joel Hall Dancers and Center to balance my life. And at this point, there's an imbalance in between those two things. And so I needed to apply for a sabbatical in order to focus solely on Joel Hall Dancers and Center. And it's a sabbatical without pay. And so what does balance now look like in my life? So at first, I was in terror over the thought of
00:33:11
Speaker
leaving the school because I've been there for 28 years. I have a pension. I have health insurance. I have a paycheck that gets auto deposited in my bank account every two weeks. And I don't have that in my artistic world, but I had to seriously ask myself yet again, what at this moment in time is my goal and what are my dreams?
Concluding Thoughts on Authenticity and Fulfillment
00:33:35
Speaker
What are my dreams? I still have dreams. And so how do I ask myself very honestly, what is the importance between these things? And if I feel that I'm sacrificing for money, I am not being true to myself. So how much money do I need to be happy and balanced? And what level of artistry do I need? And then being okay with the fact that those things can ebb and flow in my life. Now, when I was in my twenties and was making
00:34:04
Speaker
you know, hardly any money. Was I happy? Yes, I was 100% happy. I was fulfilled. I was fine with that, right? And then I needed that stability in order to hone my artistry, right? So that way I wasn't struggling to a point where I couldn't really focus on the art. And now I'm in a new phase. And what does that mean to me at this point in my life? Yeah, such a great point because I hate the word balance. I think a lot of people have heard me talk about this, but
00:34:32
Speaker
I'll say it again, right? There's this strange idea that there's a singular balance out there. And it's also something that we're going to find and hold, right? So my balance isn't your balance. And everybody listening, everybody else's balance out there is, you know, you got to look within yourself.
00:34:48
Speaker
and then it changes over your life, right? And what could work for you last year? I mean, it could literally be year over year. And I've found sometimes, you know, this year I just need more exercise in my life. And right, like I just need more focus on my personal and we're always looking at pie charts and we're supposed to have some kind of weird balance of everything in, you know, exact pizza slices. But I don't find that, right? And I think it's a very dangerous concept because some people
00:35:15
Speaker
love what they do and that's all they want to be thinking about and they don't want so much balance in some other areas. Some people are spiritual, they want more there or somebody is very deeply involved in family. You have to think about what drives you and then it shifts 100%.
00:35:33
Speaker
Okay, so everybody who comes on the show, I ask them this question, I'm gonna ask you, what does an authentic life mean to you? An authentic life, I think finding a way in which I am comfortable in my own skin communicating at that moment. That's interesting. And what are ways that you keep yourself authentic? Some people journal, some people go for walks, people have come on and said all sorts of things. What kind of tools, techniques, things do you do
00:36:01
Speaker
sort of find your inner self. For me, anything that's creative keeps breathing life into me. So it doesn't solely have to be dance. It can be, and it shifts. It can be reading poetry or journaling or writing songs or lyrics or things. Anything that makes me feel creative usually makes me feel quite alive.
00:36:26
Speaker
Very cool. So people who are in Chicago looking to take dance, people who are interested in finding out more about you, where can they find you? JoelHaul.org and we are currently in the Edgewater location.
00:36:39
Speaker
at 5965 North Clark Street. We are currently looking to move locations to a different Northside neighborhood, so check the website soon for the upcoming details on our location move. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. Thank you for having me.