Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to Fixated, a podcast with us, Joelle and Ellen. I'm Joelle. And I am Ellen. This is the podcast where we talk about all the media and culture and stuff we just can't look away from. the stuff we just can't seem to get over. And why it all matters so, so much to us. This episode, we talk a lot about Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, of course. We talk about Bestie Vacation, Miserables, and we do some wrap-up on the Vampire Lestat, which just finished up. It's a really fun one. We're yeah all over the place, as always. As always. That's why you love us. Exactly. Lock in.
Speaker: Another day, another episode. Exactly. We are back in our typical little boxes. Thank God a little bit. Yeah, right. It was fun to switch it up, but I missed home. Exactly. Exactly. This is my comfort area with my set design, actually. And my very empty background.
Speaker: Look ah Boop. Someday, someday, I swear, I'll have like a poster on the wall for everyone to look at Yeah. say But not just the blank bare walls. You know what?
Speaker: You can you can have your sensory deprivation tank. That's allowed. Thank you. A bedroom can be anything. The other side of my bedroom is beautifully decorated, I promise. I wouldn't even know. my What's off frame in my bedroom is a nightmare complete with Legos. A six six year old's Lego collection. Oh my god, lovely. Has she built anything?
Speaker: Sure. No, she's actually a very good builder. She's actually awesome she's very good with the Lego. She was showing me a rainbow house or something like that that she built. calm or rainbow room or something and you know child's imagination is i love like this very awesome she was pointing out the little windows and where the tv is and all this stuff a series of blocks the different ones it works i really like it i like that that's part of her free time it's good for development exactly exactly she kind of it is but that's not what this podcast is so it could be this podcast can be anything in the world that's true
Speaker: This episode, we're fixated on childhood development. Exactly. We have one test subject. My niece. Exactly. That's all you need, right? To like make a good study. Exactly. That's what I've heard. Some people act like it. That's what I've heard. That's true.
Speaker: Anecdotal evidence is above all who needs. Yeah. I don't know. Impericism. Anything else. Yeah. Since our last episode when we yeah weren't together and then we were together and then we're not. Yes. We were hanging out, which was awesome. And there was no proof of it on the podcast unless you follow us on Instagram. True. Then you saw. Yeah.
Speaker: But we're real people. We hang out. We are. promise. We make it work. We make it happen. It was so fun. It was, yeah, speaking tell me your non-media fixations. Our non-media fixations are very similar. um Because we've been busy lately. Exactly. We've been busy, you know, and again, the rules aren' written in stone. The rules are written nowhere. It's so true. No.
Speaker: in a google the rules are written in a google doc in an editable google doc that we have shared access to yeah exactly exactly my non-media fixation this week on fixated with joelle and ellen is um like friend vacay basically my god friend vacay more particularly the fact of the privilege of traveling well together with oh wait that's so true that's a really good one yeah think you do a good job um We do. We've taken many a trip together at this point and we're good at it. Exactly. I was saying this to you, I think when we were together, like we're good at getting it out of the group shot. We're good with that. It's true. When we have an idea and we know we want to do it, like we do it, we get there. Yeah. And God bless. I feel like that's ah that's a skill in in and of itself. Something to mature into is getting it out of the group chat. Absolutely. um Yeah, we were in london London. London town. together
Speaker: For kind of a good bit of time, honestly. also Yeah, four or five days. Yeah. How did it feel to you? Because I was i was on an extended trip. but yes Yes. Honestly, it felt like a good amount of time because we packed it in. Yes.
Speaker: If we had had longer, I feel like it would have felt exactly the same because we really jammed activities in. Yeah, exactly. And it was so much fun. I was exhausted and ready to go home by the time we were done, which I feel like usually is not how I feel at the end of like a four or five day trip. Yeah, we did a lot and the weather was so good. But that also means we were outside.
Speaker: you know we were outside walking around I forgot my sunscreen entirely we go we'll see what happens really no because again we were in London but is true it's a different sun out there exactly not the east coast sun you're supposed to wear that wear your SPF even when it's not sunny because I brought it with me and didn't put it on a single deck Okay, perfect. So we'll have the same amount of some sun damage. Yes, exactly. and Yay. But yeah, I feel like it's just not a guarantee that it'll be so smooth sailing, but we've done a good job um thus far. Knock on wood. Yeah. You know, once our like we once we get our money up and we forget where we came from, we can't really...
Speaker: we don't know how we'll travel well together because i'll need the private jet that you might prefer a different private jet you know yeah exactly i need my own like chartered boat or something yeah exactly i will not be traveling my boat no you you get seasick i also get seasick but i'll want the boat anyway yeah for the vibes yeah um so you never know so you really have to cherish the times we have Yes, while we're still like young and mostly broke. we We do a good amount of like we're on the same activity nap, activity nap. Like we break it up equally. I feel like we tend to want the same amount of activity and the same amount of nap time. which Yeah, it this is reminding me part of my trip was traveling with my sister to Scotland as well. And we were talking about how on that trip, we were also a little bit that part of the trip, we were a bit busy. um
Speaker: And we were like, okay, so there's a there's a real difference between Vacation and traveling. Yes. was like, we were traveling. And I think we were also traveling. were traveling. We were on they are doing things. Vacation, you're sitting, you're relaxing, probably in an actual nice, warm vacation-y yeah spot on a beach, perhaps. Yeah. After this travel, I need a vacation. Exactly. Exactly. But also we benefit from having friends in London.
Speaker: yeah you listening many or boys have that kind of eases i think a little bit also of that like traveling yes is we can yeah having an actual place to be that isn't a hotel room is great exactly and it's so nice to like have people there who can give you actual ideas of things to do that yes exclusively touristy thing which like yeah I love a touristy activity but it it is good to have a local to talk to which leads me into specifically my non-media fixation go for it the bus I us love a tour bus like a a big red hop on hop off specifically bus
Speaker: I love those. Because you hop on and then, crazy enough, you can hop off. Then you can do stuff and you can hop right back on that bus. Exactly. It's the best thing in the world. I'm being entirely genuine. I've done them with our dear friend Bridget in multiple cities. Yeah. all And they're awesome.
Speaker: And I know my brand that I like like. They're so good. They do a great job. so fun. yeah Highly recommend. yes you can get to know any city. You can see what you want to see You can hop off or you can return and return the next day.
Speaker: Boom. I'm a walking advertisement for the Hop On Hop Off. You are. They should hire you. Yeah. Yeah. This is my first time properly on the Hop On Hop Off thing. Yeah. It was so much fun. i really enjoyed it.
Speaker: Again, I've been to London a good, a decent amount now. Yeah. like But this was truly the first time where you get to do the little, like truly see all of central London. Exactly. You get to see all the main things. Yeah. Without really walking around. It's great. Bridges. Yes. And exactly. Without walking around with the tires. Yeah. I think it's awesome.
Speaker: It's so fun to ride on the top of a bus. In the top in the open air. It's so fun. I was like, what the heck? It's is like a roller coaster. It really is. You get to see people on the street and they're like, oh, hey look at them tourists. And you're like, yeah.
Speaker: Don't you love it? suggest. Any kind of like actual like tour of a place? like I think that in traveling a little bit more in the last like two years, again, thankfully, really really grateful I've been able to. Yeah, love a walking tour even like anything where people tell you things about where you are like i love it i think it's just worth it i think it's worth it to pay for it if you can it's awesome they're so fun yeah especially like a themed one i've done like a literature tour yeah so cool you did one in scotland right yes i did one in scotland those music um but i'm thinking about the one that we did in savannah oh my god the ghost one ghost tour in savannah that was fun that was great especially i'm not even again i am the same way i feel about ghosts the same way feel about space where
Speaker: i'm kind of like low-key none of my business i don't need to know low-key none of my business um i have a lot of peace not like bothering but it was not scary it was like maybe spooky mostly silly yeah exactly this tour that we went on which was really fun yeah and savannah if we learned about the boo hag don't let the buhag ride you don't let the buhag ride you and I still don't really I don't remember what that means but the true guy kept saying it she would ride them the men
Speaker: it's in the phrase fine um she would encounter men and kill them she kind of had like a bit of a siren vibe to her a little bit too right but also she wasn't like she would like possess your wife maybe oh i don't remember somebody tell us what the boohag is does anyone know what we're talking about ask look we could look at it i don't know we'll look it up later whatever yeah well we'll remember this we'll remember yes yeah um yeah learn about the boohag was awesome she could she could be in our crew all my homies love the boohag I like i love the boo hat. That's my girl.
Speaker: Yeah. It was a good trip, all in all. We saw Les Mis. Just remember that. On the West End. The West west End. We didn't really do that many media things.
Speaker: No, and that's okay. That's fine. That's good. Sometimes you need We're on vacation. Exactly. We're on vacation from media because this is work. Yes. This is work. We're locked in. We're clocked in. We've made our hobbies a work that doesn't pay us. so Which is like what one is supposed to be, right? Like that's what they tell you to do. Which circles right back around to being a hobby, right? A hobby just with an extraordinary amount of time put into it. but Exactly. It's just a hobby that keeps us really busy. So fun. Whatever. Love. Love.
Speaker: My hands look like this. so So that yours, our listeners, exactly can press play.
Speaker: True. so yeah, I guess that's our joint fixation. Non-media fixation is a non-media front vacay. All right. Yeah. it's time to talk media.
Speaker: Yes. Let's get into our media fixations. I might put you on the spot and ask you first, Ellen, what are your media fixations for this episode of Fixated? Obviously big one, The Odyssey.
Speaker: Yes. Yay. We both watched The Odyssey last night. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Immediately post-vacation, we were like, back to work. Gotta see The Odyssey. Gotta see it. Gotta see it. We saw a Trojan horse in London. We did. big Trojan horse. Yes, Trojan horse. Which...
Speaker: When I was, when I saw it in person, I wonder if that one that we encountered was the size of the one that they used in the movie. Because it really, to me, like, did not look that big. And then it actually, to me, in the movie didn't look that big either. And I was like, okay, whatever, you know, like, it's a, you're using your imagination. But then I'm watching videos of people talking about Christopher Nolan. And no, they really jammed those guys in there. Like, yeah, he, you know, he's a non CGI guy practical effects, like they really climbed on in there. And then yeah,
Speaker: climbed out like you saw him climbing out and climbed out yeah like no i know it really did jam like and we looked it up 30 to 40 men forty nine in that trojan horse yeah which i was like damn i guess it is possible because i was kind of doubting the capacity of the trojan horse but i'm really still having trouble wrapping my mind around like the physics of that because it was a pretty big horse it was it was but i don't i still don't think it was big enough especially for an imax camera to climb on in there with them too yeah did you see in imax i did okay i did not did which i was like maybe i'm missing something but i couldn't be arsed as they say super fair i like just felt like i had to and i got really lucky with a ticket i bought it kind of last minute um yeah but i got it at a super weird time so
Speaker: To be completely honest, I saw that picture, I know you're going to know what i'm talking about, online of um them comparing specifically the non-IMACs to the IMAX with like um Odysseus versus Agamemnon's helmets, and you couldn't see the full helmets on the normal screen. And I was like, well, I need to see their helmets. like I need... Which part? Okay.
Speaker: I'll show you a picture. like What was I missing? One scene where of it Odysseus and Agamemnon like talking to each other, i think. Sure. um And you see how much bigger Agamemnon's helmet is. and I was like, damn. i think that On the big screen. Otherwise I'll be missing so much. That's thing. Now i'm like, man, I guess there's no point in experiencing regret because I've seen the movie. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe I should have really tried.
Speaker: know what? Let's talk about that. for Yeah, let's talk about the actual movie instead of... i was check that Oh, Which, hopefully, it would make more sense to actually talk about the movie. I'm just thinking about... um i don't know. It's interesting to me to like make a movie that can only be like, for that to be the way that like it's meant to be seen. To make a movie that isn't really accessible to that many people. There's only, or I guess there's only, they said there's only 20 something, 25 maybe.
Speaker: The 70 millimeter. millime me the like 70 millimeter IMAX theaters. And so it's just interesting to me for um like cool, I guess. But to make a movie that that's the way that it's meant to be seen and it can only be seen by not that many people true fraction it's just interesting yeah i mean i can't appreciate it just sucks to the and like i'm in new york city i'm sure i have access to one of those theaters yeah but like they sell out so quickly that not really like unless you're on it on it you're not going to be able to see that it's just not realistic for most people the majority of people yeah to be able to see that and that just sucks Yeah, I'm just, du I respect that.
Speaker: Because, yeah, i'm like, oh, good, you guys really did, you know, really using the form to its extent. Exactly, you did your thing, and so I want to be able to see it, like, as it's meant to be seen, the best it possibly could be. Could be, yeah. is it really going to rock my have availability at all, especially for someone who isn't in a city like New York. Like, that sucks. It should just not be a possibility in the slightest, but yeah whatever. um I mean, really cool that they did it. um yeah yeah Now we should actually talk movie. yeah Yes. Yes.
Speaker: How, what was your first impression of the movie or how was it watching the experience? Like what, what, what would you think? I loved it. i really really liked it. um i think, I don't know, for a second, maybe the first like half, not that I wasn't into it at all, but I was like, I like this. Like I, I solidly liked it. And then somewhere, somewhere around that second, third act, I was like, okay, it's love.
Speaker: I feel love in my heart. Like it really, and I'll say it like I'm a Greek mythology girl. Like i i was a Percy Jackson child. I've read all the like um Song of Achilles and Circe and whatever. Like I love yeah that kind of thing. i really love a fictional Greek mythology, whatever. I love it. I'm, I know the Odyssey well. I haven't actually read the Odyssey, but I'm actually, I have the Emily Wilson um version of the Odyssey currently holding up my computer. I bought it a while ago and I haven't touched it, of course. yeah But, so, i was so excited. And I really, I thought it was really good. I thought it did a really great job and I really enjoyed it. How about you?
Speaker: You know, Yeah. I mean, thought it was good ah I thought it was all technically all there yes I enjoyed it I did it did have to resuscitate me a little bit with as you're saying maybe like the third act type of thing like I pick up yeah I was kind of I think that's all I think it just kind of lulled a little bit and there was a certain point in time where I was just kind of like
Speaker: I was like, I'm not really feeling the core of this much. like I know the story yeah and everything, but I just felt like there was something going along that was a little bit missing, almost like emotionally, truly. um like I just kind of was like, okay, I'm just like watching this story. um And what I mean. I think the end kind of stuck the landing. I was really...
Speaker: genuinely most intrigued by watching kind of all the things that are still happening in Ithaca. um I guess the more like somewhat political drama that was going on genre wise, maybe like surprise, surprise. It's just a lot of kind of like hush hush and scheming and stuff like that. And yeah, um a lot of tension. But yeah, I think that overall I was like, once once I got to the end, once it finished, I was like, okay, that was solid. The length of it probably necessary to get to get all of it in.
Speaker: um Again, it is the Odyssey, right? But yeah, I would say that it really didn't overall move me that much or thrill me that much in any in any way. Maybe I needed the big-ass IMAX screen to really get into it, but...
Speaker: um No, no, no. I completely agree. I'm completely with you. There's just so much story. Like, it's yeah so long that they're kind of, i don't know, it would feel difficult to not make a, like, four-hour movie right without, like, having this issue. But there's just, there's so much happening that you don't really have time to, like, sit with the characters at any point. It's really kind of, like...
Speaker: island boat island boat island boat like they're yes yes exactly there's so much activity and there's so much adventure and they're running around and scene to scene to scene to scene that like you don't really emotionally connect with yeah um honestly which it does suck because yeah i wasn't really in it at any point I think oh my god I'm trying to remember there was one point where I did cry the tiniest tiniest tiniest bit I don't remember okay there was some emotional part in there yeah That got me to shed one tear. But I'm an easy crier in the movie, so maybe that's actually a point against them. They only got me to shed a single tear. Just a single tear. Yeah, yeah. i don't know. i feel like I feel like it's a really interesting... and
Speaker: effort by Christopher Nolan I think just like setting wise I think maybe there's also a little bit of a what's it called um challenge there because I don't know I guess I almost feel unqualified to like make such an analysis but I feel like like the world of Oppenheimer made more sense for what I understand and I'm used to at least with the Christopher Nolan movie which I guess I'm mainly drawing on like yeah Tenet and Inception and you know and so that's that that's also was a part of it where I was like I mean I'm not even sure if this is like stylistically serving him well was like this is all there was like all this like sand and landscape is very Deneville and I love you I was like, I gotta go. know what I mean? No, exactly. I'm super with you. It was beautiful. It was so gorgeous. And the soundtrack was incredible. And the actors were all so good. And it was a spectacle. It was incredible. It was so good to watch. But actually, I don't know if this is what you were saying at all. But a lot of the dialogue kind of left something to be desired. Not that it was bad at all. And I really didn't mind, honestly. I saw a lot of people talking about the like... Tom Holland, Telemachus at one point going, Dad! I didn't mind that because they're not speaking ancient Greek. They're speaking English. It's our understanding of what's going on completely fine to me. I don't know. That didn't throw me out of it in any way. But there was no emotional aspect for me. I think it was the script kind of... Yeah, I agree. I do think that the writing is maybe the source of some of the...
Speaker: lack of emotional core to it it just felt like the focus was making the movie a spectacle and this big incredible thing to watch versus this incredible thing to like take in yeah yes yes yes yes yeah um but i think the performances were really good i mean matt damon is interesting i like matt damon I do. Yeah. right like I like him. I don't know if he was so super compelling in a way as the lead. like I don't know. like yes I was kind of neither here nor there, which is not maybe the best. Maybe last week before I watched it, I was, you know, whatever, were scrolling on Instagram and I saw a picture of him on set and I somehow had completely forgotten
Speaker: that Matt Damon was playing Odysseus in this movie. And I was Matt Damon? I feel like I believed it. Like, i I didn't really experience that watching it. first, like, at any point. There were a lot of big names in this movie, obviously. So I was a little worried going in about that taking me out of it. But I didn't know I'm lying. I'm completely lying. I did.
Speaker: I went Charlize Theron. Yes, i did I did too. I did too. I didn't know she was in this one. I knew I was expecting everyone else. She was the only one that i maybe was like,
Speaker: I kind of missed it. I was like, sure, Louise. I was like, what? Another random thing, which I like, I just, one of the things where like, one has to laugh at themselves. In the scene, know, there's like the guys who are scheming and sent to kill Temelechus. Temelechus. Temelechus. I said right the first time. Temelechus.
Speaker: yeah olyiccu um Lisa from Temecula. Yeah. I was like, what? Lisa from Temecula. That's exactly where your brain was. Yeah, it's exactly. Telemachus. They go to kill him. They're all dressed up as priests or whatever. yeah and there's like there's this close-up on one of them, and I just was like do it was like, where have I seen that face before? I was like truly racking my brain. i was like, where have I seen this face before? Where have I seen it? Yeah.
Speaker: And I was like, you know, the one thing about my mind, it is a memory trap for any possible gay ship that I've ever seen on Tumblr ever anywhere. oh my god. I'm so excited. Who is it? who is it Some random guy from a show I never even watched, Roswell, New Mexico.
Speaker: that I couldn't even remember the second half of the ship, but I was just like, so i was like sitting the rock i was like, he was, I was like, he had really tall hair. And I just remember seeing the like gifs of this guy. I was like, what is it? What is it? And then, yeah, I thought of it before i even looked it up and I looked up to confirm him and I was like,
Speaker: That's so funny. is what we live for. This is what I train for. Yeah. I'm really like, I'm IMDb pilled. Like my brain is an IMDb cast, whatever. Yeah. Like full cast and crew. That's my, I love that. I experienced the exact same thing for one of the only, I didn't realize who it was in the moment. It did take me a minute. I just was like, I know this guy. Yeah.
Speaker: for um one of the guys on Odysseus's crew was in Criminal Minds and I got home and I finally looked it up and everyone was like that's Will LaMontagne from Criminal Minds married to JJ who I love JJ's my girl it thank you Yeah, yeah I knew him as well.
Speaker: It's fun to do that, only it does not take me out of it ever, but it distracts me. Because that's also, I've seen everything in the world, experience this watching nearly every movie. So it's good to be in the theater and not be able to Google it, because I'm not pulling my phone out during the movie, but I'm thinking it the whole time. Yeah, and I think movies like this, oh my god, it's great. It's great to, I guess, in a sense, it is great to have a cast of such illustrious, well-known people. yeah But there is always going to be that little bit where you're like, that is Jon Bernthal.
Speaker: Yeah. Like, that is Frank. yeah Frank is the Punisher. You're called Frank. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. love john bernstall he did a great job i thought he was really really good i thought he was really good too um now i'm really a fan of him yeah i do have to say there is this like constant criticism of christopher nolan and how he uses women features women and uses I don't want to say uses but you know what I mean like is the ah maybe limited role um of women in his movies I did have that thought in Oppenheimer with like Florence Pugh's character um and in this one it also felt very apparent to me exactly know it's an adapted piece I know that like it's obviously there are not that many women in it in general written by Homer a billion years ago But I also did feel, which maybe it's like a really simplistic point of critique, like but fine, whatever. But like I think that was also a little bit of the like hollowness, at least for me, watching the movie, which was, i was just kind of like, sick there's not much... Do you understand what i mean? Like, I don't know. I'm just the whole being like, dad, and I'm a man, and this is about honor, and this is about, and you're like, right. I actually, like, obviously there were so a few women in this. Not even in this, but, like, they just weren't the focus, which, like, I wasn't expecting. It's, again, like, this is the story, and this is the whatever, like, but despite the, like, real lack of women in this film, the
Speaker: And not even, like, the performances, because the performances from everybody were great. But, like, the real moments with different, a couple of the the different women were, like, these standout moments to me. Yeah. um Which was kind of crazy. Like, i really just, Cersei, obviously, incredible. Really good. I...
Speaker: Really cool scene of her. It was so... That scene was crazy. it was so cool. And i i don't understand how that happened without CGI. I don't know how they did that.
Speaker: I was watching like a bunch of things of them describing how they did it with the animatronics and they used clay and they used an artist and I still don't get it. yeah That makes no sense to me. But her performance, incredible. like i don't know. i really, really love that character too. It's such a... like So many...
Speaker: Not to make it like a whole feminist thing, but I'm going to make it a feminist thing. Like, I don't know, all these women in Greek mythology, like these monsters, so many of them are just trying to protect themselves, like Circe and Medusa. It's them trying to protect themselves from that.
Speaker: That's what so much of this is. And it was just so fascinating. And she did such a good job with that. And obviously, I loved the um return to your disguises, i think is what she was saying as part of her spell aspect. Loved that. That was incredible. liked that. That moment to me. But there was also a moment, like a one-off line from Helen to Telemachus, where she was like, tell Penelope, I'm so sorry about this. And it was so, it like struck me.
Speaker: yeah Because it was just like, this woman is experiencing like, She's feeling somewhat guilt for this war that lasted 10 years that killed all of these people. And it took Penelope's husband been from her for 20 years for so long, like all of this time, all of these years, all of these people, all these lives. And she's feeling the blame for all of it. And she didn't do anything like and in this um interpretation to me, obviously, it's more the understanding that she ran away with Paris versus she was taken.
Speaker: That's the way that it seemed to me that they were going for. And so just her taking this on as like her own fault, for herself for the entire war, when it's like, no, this is Agamemnon's doing. Exactly. Menelaus and Agamemnon, oh my God, these are such long names that I know how to say, I promise.
Speaker: This is their doing, war is their doing. And yes obviously also like got just incredible. I loved that one line. It really like stayed with me. um And it did such a good, the entire movie did like such a good job, especially on like looking back and thinking about it, like post viewing. Yes.
Speaker: Like so much of it is Odysseus's regret, obviously, and him like looking at and feeling the blood on his hands and like, He didn't even want to be at war. yeah he only went to war because Agamemnon threatened him anyway. yes like being like, oh my god, these poor guys are about 3,000 year old characters.
Speaker: Yeah. It's like this poor guy's say No one has ever had this thought before, but but it was such a good interpretation because it it absolutely could have gone the route of like, and some people are still going to interpret this interpret it this way incorrectly, of like just yay warrior strong guy killer kind of yeah vibe. Yeah. But that's not what it was. That's not what they were doing.
Speaker: Or even like being like, war is tough. but Exactly. no It was really, especially, oh my god, that third act was really like, there was that scene, like the horrors and the guilt of war, and like there is no honor in any of this. It's yeah just horrible for everyone everywhere. And it was so it was really, I really enjoyed that. Which again, i agree that it's kind of something that becomes clearer in reflection. Yes. And I think they really drive home in like the last half, which I can, or the last half, last act, which I can yeah appreciate.
Speaker: But I still wish that there maybe was a little bit more of that like current to like get you there. Completely. Throughout it. Completely. I could have done that. A little bit more of the like emotionality to it.
Speaker: I don't know. That might be just like, yeah, I guess that's my that's my interpretation. That's my thought about it because i do really like, that's where I was like, they really kind of like stuck the landing that. Because just, yeah, the whole question and the whole kind of question being like, oh, he's trying to get home, but he's like, he doesn't actually want to get home because of the presumed shame basically yeah exactly doesn't hold any of his actions in honor i think finally like going into that battle at troy was like yeah was really cool i really liked how um i really liked how it made sense or you know the thing that they did with zendias yes with athena i thought that that was moving that was good um and i wasn't expecting it actually Yeah, probably, right? That's probably the most as they would design it, I guess, other than general re reuniting with Penelope. think it's the most kind of um emotional part. And I thought it was really, it struck me.
Speaker: Yeah, it really, i wasn't expecting that at all. Yeah. And then like reaching out, like that was, that was really nice. I thought that was really nice. It really, yeah. I've seen a lot of different interpretations of that also since watching it. um People are not fans or what?
Speaker: Or just in general. People are not fans and also people are not understanding it the way that I am understanding it. And I am kind of of the understanding, especially having not read, but like understood the Odyssey in general. Because I haven't really taken in that much commentary on it, okay honestly. So me let me try to just kind of cat phrase this. Like, okay, in, I could be incorrect. I could be wrong about this, to be fair. I have not read the actual Odyssey. I've only read interpretations of it, obviously, whatever. like Yes. Like, you know, like, interpretations, like, like, I haven't read the actual translation. Obviously, haven't read the ancient Greek either. Right. Yeah.
Speaker: Whatever. i feel that I'm familiar with the story. She was a priestess girl, a young priestess who was killed. um And that is like, those girls are supposed to be protected. And so that is one of the like greatest sins that you could be. Exactly. um That's one of the greatest sins that you could be doing. Whatever you're not supposed to You can't kill a priestess in Athena's temple, like a priestess of Athena. yeah And so like that is part of the reason why...
Speaker: they then had this like difficulty getting home. It was Athena's rage because they killed one of her priestesses in her sacred temple. Right. Whatever. And so like, that's what that was. And that's why she's appearing as this priestess girl.
Speaker: um But also it's like the guilt that he feels kind of him finally realizing like, Oh, like that's where what we're doing here is bad, you know? Totally. totally So like, it's his guilt. That's making him view Athena as this way, as this priestess girl. I saw a couple of people,
Speaker: just being like, no, no, no, like that moment, that was just them showing that they were just toppling the statue. And like, that was a a symbol of them toppling that statue. I'm like, no, I don't think, I think that those men were killing that girl. Yeah, wait. think they beheaded that girl. Sorry. Thank you. Now that I'm catching up, I'm like, wait, no, yeah, that's the idea. Exactly. It's like they didn't actually show the girl being beheaded. Yeah, they showed the statue because she was a priestess of Athena. Yeah, the exact kind of like.
Speaker: also editing cues. Exactly. Like they were doing it at the same time. They kind of killed both of them because she's a symbol of her, but she, yeah that wasn't, that wasn't just them toppling a statue. They are, killing and assaulting these girls like yeah yeah like innocence innocence i think people that's the thing like they've killed all these innocent people in this town in troy in this exactly in the city of troy like in this little small town just them killing other soldiers that's what part of it is like yeah exactly i thought they made that very purposeful mean with his words and also understood it showed Like, you know, what was on screen. Sorry. Yeah. the something um I try to be understanding of different people interpreting things in different ways. I'm like, yeah, I that that was made clear to me. and Yeah. And I think they very purposely had like women in frame, not focusing on it too much, which is tasteful also, mind you. Yeah, but I thought that was kind of the idea is that he was like, oh, wait, this is he's like the this like blood lust, essentially. um
Speaker: Like they were very much the villains of yeah at least to the citizens of Troy. Like, if not, whatever, you know, everybody's at war. Everyone's at fault in war, but not the people in this town that they're yeah for no reason. And they yeah said that at one point, like, I think it was Cersei said something about them. Pillaging and helping and all these things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, no, totally. yeah But alas, that's why it's a great big but big big wide world out there. Yeah, yeah. And that I can appreciate, again, almost seems like maybe a low bar, but it's like, yeah you appreciate a movie that says Warbat.
Speaker: don't know. no offense, but offense that like this is the audience that's watching this movie too, that some people need a real smack in the face of this is what we're saying. like I could have done with a little bit more of that because I understand that that's what you're saying. Maybe a lot of people aren't, but also...
Speaker: um slightly different thing. I would have liked to have seen a little bit more explicitly like Odysseus's hubris on screen and like that is the reason that so much of what's happening to them is happening to them. It's because of the way that he is defying the gods. yeah You can't be doing that. That's his whole thing. That's what he's trying to do. He's trying to defy them. He thinks that he's better than them. He thinks he's the smartest, strongest guy, whatever.
Speaker: i'm a I'm a Homer truther, I guess. So it's little little sad to not have seen the nobody part in Polyphemus's cave, is that if that's how you say that. I'm not familiar. Okay.
Speaker: So in the original text, um you know Odysseus is there fighting the... um Cyclops. Odysseus is, he's clever. That's his thing. He's like the wisest guy ever. And I feel like we didn't see a ton of that in this. little trick.
Speaker: Exactly. he had a couple of tricks in this, but not as many as like he's had in real life in the the original story. He tells Polyphemus, he tells Polyphemus his name is nobody when they're attacking him. So then Polyphemus runs to the other Cyclops' Cyclops.
Speaker: And he's like, nobody's attacking me. Nobody's attacking me. So no one comes to help him. Right. It's part of the like humor of the original. So look I understand him not putting that in. But at the end of, you know, like they're escaping on the ship instead of him just like um doing his arrow into Polyphemus's eye as they're like as they're finally escaping, so Polyphemus thinks it's nobody that has attacked them, but as they're finally escaping on the boats, um Odysseus yells back to him that like he is nobody, that like he tells him his real name. And then the Cyclops tells that to Poseidon and it's like that, um that hubris of like him needing to take credit for this trick. Yeah. That is what like gets them really punished by Poseidon. Yeah.
Speaker: Him needing to be the cleverest guy and he needs him to know, he needs to stick it to him. um Like, He needs to tell him that he's the one that did that, that got it got one over on him. Yeah. And so i kind of missed that aspect of it, just like the real seeing how proud he is. Yeah, yeah. I think I agree because I think I, maybe just personally, I kind of was like, got a little mixed up with yeah i understand he's supposed to be like a little proud and his yeah crew kind of like calls him on it but then also once it becomes evident that it's like it's his crew that's also being like punished basically exactly you know it kind of confused that a little bit for me where i was like wait don't know you know i was just kind of like wait no definitely wait which one because it seemed like his crew was the one bringing keeping him in line yeah they were also hubristic exactly or you know at least for the people who were
Speaker: Exactly. Destroying yeah lives and livelihoods. um So yeah that i yeah, I can see that. That would have yeah that would have made a little bit more... Even if not in like that specific nobody scene, which like would have been fun to see, but a little bit, whatever. um like I just would have liked to see yeah more of him being such a proud guy and needing to take credit for all the work that he did, all the work. like All his His great schemes. Exactly. Exactly. yeah His scheming, his scheming. Yeah. Yeah. What else? He really reminded me visually um in his older age of Charlton Heston and the Ten Commandments.
Speaker: Oh, my God. Yeah. There was one point where he was walking out of the ocean holding that piece of the boat. And i was like, Moses? Yeah. I like, that made me giggle a little bit in funny in in the screening, in the theater. Exactly. I thought Robert Pattinson was really good. year for Robert Pattinson. I'm loving him in basically everything he shows up in. like Maybe I'm mainly thinking about the drama, but always just a killer like yeah man he's so good good he's so good yeah i was really entertained by him mickey 17 was just so obviously incredible he loves like a and everyone has said this this isn't news but he loves a silly little voice and i love to hear it from him he plays he loves to play just like a guy a little guy he's just so good on so good yeah man like he just
Speaker: he serves Mia Goth was in there. I wasn't expecting her either. yeah i mean like Really chock full of people. was just kind of like Elliot Page as s Sinon was so, so good. It was like a really... You really fell for him. just a young...
Speaker: as just like a young a believer Like a believer in the cause Odysseus couldn't protect him and he was just a kid. Yeah. It was really good. I really like because he just ah really sad. Yeah. And then him returning from Hades. Yes. I like that scene in general. That was cool. but That was really cool. It was really good. I really felt that. so The way that they did Agamemnon, I thought was so, so good of like him in this obviously incredible costume. Him so strong. They don't even really show him without his costume. like They do for just like a second. They don't show his face because that's not what matters. like he's
Speaker: He's just kind of a nothing guy. like He is just a little Weasley, shrimpy loser who did all of this for nothing. yes um Get him. I'm mad. Me versus Agamemnon.
Speaker: But like, that's not what it's about. It's about him being this big warrior guy. I don't know yeah if I'm... Sacrifices his children. Exactly. yeah I don't think I'm saying anything really, but i'm I think I'm getting my point across. of Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I'm just not being able to put it in words, but you know exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, um for sure. It's more about the symbol of him being a big, great warrior than as an actual human being. He was not a big, great person and he died naked and afraid. take He died like a loser. of his Yeah. Like his wife got him, which oh that was another thing, like knowing that story. Oh my God, that was affecting the little, little child that he um sacrificed for calm wins. But um in the original story, I think she's a little bit older, not much. I think she's like, you know, 13, 14 as young girls were. And he tells Achilles that he's, that they're going to be married. And so he's going to wed her to Achilles. Like that's, he tricks his wife. that's how he gets his daughter up there and then he slaughters her in front of everyone on her like wedding dais whatever it is like up in front of the everybody um right we didn't have time to add anything else in there was no exactly no time for that but like think that even more is maybe like shows how horrifying what he did was and how it really like obviously killing your child your wife isn't gonna love that no matter what but
Speaker: like tricking her like that is maybe worse and would have shown like her anger a little more so would have loved to see that but also like i appreciate that she's a little baby toddler in this as well obviously there's no good way to to sacrifice your daughter um for calm wins like there's no there's no there's no redeemable way to do that don't think your wife is going to a fan of it no matter how you do it how old she is or the way that you decide to do it Yeah.
Speaker: Most like, there's Odyssey. enough. um Did enough. i As a movie. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. i' was saying, I think re-watching it, I probably would enjoy it even more, but.
Speaker: um Yeah. Yeah. I just have to admit that, like, while watching it, kind of was just like. I would love. Just not the most, like, affecting movie, but. I would love for there to be a little bit more emotion in it, but unless you want to make the Odyssey part one and two, which I do not want. i don't think i don't think anybody wants that. um Like there wasn't a real way to really cram anything else in there with trying to get every piece of it in because it's this big, great epic That's been a great epic thing. um Yeah. Which that actually reminds me. I was thinking, um i don't know, an hour ago just to myself about us having seen Les Mis. And i was like, they really, they should do ah the Odyssey musical. And then I remembered that they're doing that. They very much, that does exist. um Yeah. But...
Speaker: I don't know anything about that. So actually, I could be inventing something that very much exists right now. But I want like a Les Mis style, like very intense, very theatrical, very like not a joke kind of opera about the Odyssey. I want the movie that I just watched only their singing. Like, you know, like I want it to be a very Hugh Jackman situation up there, only it's Matt Damon and he's right singing i think that that would be fun oh my hello ann hathaway she's already like she's so true the connective tissue there we go there go oh i love full of stars oh my god can we talk about the movie for a second of course are you kidding wow
Speaker: We're saying. We've had 800 times. Not on the pod. Exactly. No, just me and you. Start from the beginning. I love that movie. It's so good. Since we just saw the stage production. It was very, very present in our minds, very forward our minds. And yeah, you know, I think I have been on the receiving end of someone, people, saying that that movie's not that good.
Speaker: Mainly the reason being that like, oh, the people can't sing they like they can act but they can't sing and it's just so distracting how bad the singing is will I'm like grow up it's great and it's also to be honest like and I know I said this to you Even the parts when it's not perfect, like when it is a little bit bad, it's all the better for it to me. Yeah, I genuinely think so. Because it human. It feels real. Yeah. And especially them, like, in real life singing on the day. Like, none of that is pre-recorded. They're singing as they're shooting it. Yeah. It just makes it feel like you feel the realness. You feel the grittiness. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love it. It's so, like...
Speaker: I think it's the appropriate choice. I feel like it's the appropriate choice. though It has the most kind of the alchemy there. Cause I think we were also talking about like how it's really interesting to think about the advantages of film, like the medium for the story where like the stage production was great. was beautiful. But like you're listening to the first, um the first song. very um So opening. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. um that's what thinking yeah and yes stage production was fantastic the singing's great but there's just you can't deny how like visceral it is to be able to do that like close up shot of hugh jackman like gaunt and straining and his eyes and that note and you're like oh my goodness you're like this is crazy yeah And so I think, I think it was the smartest choice. Like, of course, I think maybe, um,
Speaker: like probably stage actors if they had hired stage act like of course they would have done well but it's just like that's i'm like i like the actors the yes samantha barks is she from the west end or is she from broadway i'm not sure i'm not sure but she's some reason i have west end but i think she's i think she might be from the original west end um production but like she's incredible but some of the acting like it's because they all know how to act That's what the focus is. And it's really that movie. They carry that on the screen. They shot it like a stage production too. Like in a way that is just so, it just makes it all the better. Like love it. They really stayed true to the musical production. Which also I think it would probably be a little bit difficult not to because it's obviously an opera and so there's no, they can't cut any dialogue. Like there's no changing it really. If you want to do all the songs, you're doing the same exact show. Yeah. Which I think really adds to it. But so like I really appreciated how similar it was because it's the like translation from stage to screen.
Speaker: yeah is not always great. It doesn't always work. Like, I think obviously some things are just meant for the stage and some are meant for the screen. yeah And Lema is it just, is it's great on both because they respected that it's a show for the stage and they just took the stage show and they filmed it.
Speaker: like two yeah food certain And like capitalized on it. They just took what already existed and they made it better. They didn't take anything away from it. Yes, exactly. They were very they were very on point. And it's such a good movie. I freaking love the movie. Eddie Redmayne's Empty Chairs at Empty Tables. Again, just because the actual performance of it, you're just like, like it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. um i like Russell Crowe's stars. It's genuinely one of my favorite numbers because it sounds real.
Speaker: real It does. Like, honestly, I didn't get that until maybe like talking to you freshman, sophomore year of college about it. Like I never had an issue with it, but it was not ever a standout to me. It was just wasn't one that I remembered very well. But it really, it's so real. And it is, you're right. It's visceral and it's real and you're there with him and it's so good. It's so good. You guys, like nobody's understanding it. I'm just not seeing the vision. I'm just not seeing the vision. No, yeah. I think, yeah, obviously there are fans of the film, but once I kind of caught wind of that critique, i was like, yeah. I don't feel that way at all.
Speaker: You're right. it's You're right. You should say it. yeah Yeah. Long live Les Mis. Love Les Mis. It's just like, and also it's one of those um where i was just, I feel like it gets introduced to you maybe, I don't know. For me, it was like in like maybe seventh grade where we did like a medley in my little like middle school choir or something like that. Oh, yeah. The choir medley was real. Right? The choir medley. Exactly. But like, oof, so good. I Dreamed a Dream. You hear all these lyrics and the lyrics are beautiful. Like that, the entire kind of, the entire vignette.
Speaker: Yes. The whole thing. Of I Dreamed a Dream on my own. It's just all, it's so beautiful. I could list every song. Yeah. It really lives. really lives in my heart I think it's a beautiful musical I might need to listen to that that quality serious intense opera of the Odyssey yeah that's exactly what I want to see yeah you might have to be the one man I might okay somebody give me one billion dollars And I will all get to work. I'll go to songwriting school. I will go to script writing. I will do all the things necessary. I'll train myself and I will start writing. i um I'm not just writing. I'm producing. this is It's happening. oh right yeah like I'm putting on a show. I'm hiring, i don't know, who directed Leigh-Miz.
Speaker: Let me get him on the phone. Somebody tell me, is is Epic good? i'll get it I could get in and into Epic, the musical, which is the Odyssey in musical form. Really? That's what it's called? That's what it's called. It's called Epic. i don't know I appreciate that. That's why in my mind, sorry to everyone involved, I know nothing about it. I'm sure it's great. To me, it's giving probably cheesy. I don't know if that crossed my desk. I think it was.
Speaker: I don't remember. It doesn't matter. We're talking too much about something neither of us literally knows talking about. Right, right, right. Okay. We talked so much about The Odyssey. Is there any other thing? Anything else that you've watched? I have like, I have to mention.
Speaker: Actually, I've got to do it appropriately. Oh, no. Oh, no. for Glasses. Glasses time. Yeah. TVL time. The other piece of media that I watched, truly, like, this may be the only things, but is the vampire Lestat.
Speaker: The season ended while I was away and I had to catch up. It ended? Yeah, man. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I know, I know, i know, you know how three You have like two years probably to watch three seasons of television. I think you got it. It's a total 21 episodes. Okay.
Speaker: Like physically I can... Spiritually, you're going to have to remind me. Let's see if you get to it. Respect, I guess. I respect that. No. Yes, I watched like the last three episodes basically all in a row. like I sat down and watched all of them like two days ago, maybe. and um Slay, Slay, Slay, Slay. This season was interesting. i think I think it's going to be a really interesting show to keep up with because... There's a lot going on. um It's not going with how they're approaching it, especially as kind of attempting to adapt this whole like corpus of books.
Speaker: And i was trying to reflect and be like, OK, as we know, first two seasons interview the vampire book split into two. This season was the Vampire Lestat, which is a specific book. Next season, it was just confirmed at Comic-Con, is going to be another name change but it's queen of the damned okay another book wait so who's this one focused on is this one still it's a lot of listat i think i don't know on who the perspective is i need to do my reading i'm not i'm not i'm not a book reader i have not yet read the books gotten into there um you have it so yeah not yet we'll see it's always possible but you got so i'm not sure okay well i watch you read exactly i have i have two years um to get Yeah, so I'm not sure who the, who's the perspective from some reason I think it still might be Lestat. I would understand from a show point of view of kind of like doing two seasons of that and the way that the season ended. i think there's still lot to like understand what happened from this point of view. But also that's kind of what I'm saying. I feel like ah similar enough to the first season when it ended, there was a story there there was an arc a narrative arc left just on a cliffhanger this one still kind of leaves us on a cliffhanger for this season that just ended um but this season felt a lot more like a lot of setup more than having this very kind of satisfying narrative arc
Speaker: in a way Interesting. Yeah, which i think and I think there's some amount of like discussion about the quality, I hesitate to say, about this season versus the other ones. I do not feel that particular way. I think it's just a very dynamic show, which I kind of always emphasize. And it's not really, it's definitely not formulaic. I'll tell you that. You know what I mean? So I think it can really elicit a lot of different responses because of the content, because of the form, because of the approach.
Speaker: I hesitate to speak so vaguely, but moral of the story, I really enjoyed it. I still think they're doing really interesting job with the storytelling. I thought that the various things I think they've set up and the things that happened throughout the season were really interesting progressions from the first season and so much changes with like different points of view and All this stuff. It's such an interesting show. And I just think that it's like a treat to watch. Kind of low-key defending it a little bit this season where I'm like, no. like i I still think that they're cooking. And i really appreciate it. There's so much um what the really is the core of the show, Louis and the Stott.
Speaker: Nice. nice there is It's a great season for them, I think. I think they leave on a very lovely, lovely note with them. Nice. love that. um And that really is the core. I think that is the core of the show. That is the core of the story that Anne Rice set out, as I understand. yeah um And I think as long as they keep that thread there and keep general coherence with the show, i will be there with them. And yeah, the performances across that show are absolutely fantastic. My last very general note is just like,
Speaker: damn jacob anderson sam reed asad zaman delaney hales fantastic yeah electric incredible even like i'm i'm obviously very behind but i saw the first season and i've seen like clips since incredible work from everybody yeah i just think it's affecting yeah yeah it's a lot of like i don't know i don't know how to characterize it i don't know there's like a lot of there's a lot of like online fandom discussion you know on a certain level i'm like yeah good like you know like I think there's something about being like more is more um I think it's cool to have a show kind of again like illicit responses yeah but I feel like I've always erred on the side as much as I've like understood certain kind of conversations um I've always erred on side I'm like I think they're doing a good job I think they are constructing this story that has a lot of ugly parts and a lot of interesting parts.
Speaker: A lot lovely parts too. And so, whatever. It's a love story, right? Like it's a fucked up one, but it's a love story. It is. I think so. I love that. I would argue as much. Love a terrible, toxic love story. Yeah, right? It's really so entertaining to watch, I guess is my thing as well, where I'm never going to be a it's not that deep person, because course, here we are. Everything is that deep, sorry. Exactly. But I don't know, maybe that's not fair to say. I haven't figured out how to form that thought. Yeah. We very much live in a society where people don't know how to interpret characters doing things wrong anymore. Yeah, I think you're getting what I'm saying. Exactly.
Speaker: it's You can watch something and watch someone do something bad on screen and watching that doesn't make you a bad person. and It doesn't make the actor a bad person or the author a bad person. It makes the fictional character bad, not even necessarily. and like It makes a fiction. It's a story. There's there there's a little bit of that. so I feel like that came up in our discussion about Obsession a little bit, or at least it um like I saw a little bit of that online of people being like, this is a sexist movie. And it's like, well, no. yeah I think the creators created a character who was sexist. And that's... With Obsession specifically... I did just read something, read a review of it. um She wrote something about how she didn't like Obsession, which is also a thing. Like, interpretations can be interpreted. You can dislike something yeah absolutely all the time, whatever. But actually reading hers, I was like, okay, I could kind of see because she was talking about, like, the more of the, like, mechanisms of the movies to, like, center this versus this. But I thought that was interesting. And like, well, and that's enlightening because I can see how you how you get there. And she was also talking about like the marketing of the movie itself and kind of how it like interacts with like the reception of the movie. Yeah, because I was like, don't get wrong. I also thought it was like really weird that the reception of it was so much like the reception and marketing was so much of being like crazy girlfriend.
Speaker: Yeah. And you're like, feel like that's unfortunate because that's not. That's not what the salient part of the movie is to me. That's the thing. all. And I don't think that's what... It's what the creator intended. I don't think. and I don't think. But maybe it is sloppy if it is so up for interpretation to like, there. think there something to say, absolutely, about, like, the um the marketing being so, like...
Speaker: About it being a crazy love story, whatever. She's the villain kind of thing. When that didn't happen in the movie, it was very clear to me that obviously she was the victim in this situation. Bear is the villain. Yeah, that's crazy. Whatever. Everyone knows that.
Speaker: But that's the problem. Not everyone does know that. I saw a lot of interpretations of the movie. um Just guys responding in a crazy way. like I saw a couple of Letterboxd reviews. Sorry, TVL Corner over. I'm taking off my glasses. Oh, yeah, you're right.
Speaker: I saw a couple of reviews online of guys um saying, like, oh, they should have chosen, not Nikki, should have chosen the other girl, or like should have done this differently, or like, oh, my God, my lobster too buttery, my biscuit too whatever. Like, hey, guys, I think we're losing something. I think that this was a movie about...
Speaker: sexual assault and domestic violence and i'm a little scared of what you're talking about yeah yeah which also begs the question such a central question internal question yeah insurmountable question of just like also what do you bring to the table what is like your kind of um projection in a sense your kind of interpretation that you bring to the table that might kind of lend more or less generous generously to kind of anything you're watching yeah it's just always kind of a question right which um because like even though i'm saying all these things about like the writing i would make the argument it's very different but like yeah that was a little bit of some how i felt about euphoria and sam levinson where i was like this fucking guy writing this shit like that's crazy um but i do think euphoria is worse and more coherent and like a whole thing but like
Speaker: It kind of like ties back to my question of a little bit what I was talking about earlier with the Odyssey. Like how heavy handed with these messages and the metaphors do we need to be if sometimes some people need to be smacked in the face with meaning or they're not going to pick up on it. Yeah. like so Because some people are going to be walking away from the Odyssey saying, yes, war is awesome. That movie was awesome. And some people are going to walking away from Obsession yeah saying, wow, that girl was nuts. Like, yeah how scary. Girls are scary. like Yeah.
Speaker: not everyone is picking up on the same thing and I think that's i don't know difficult must be difficult to make a movie especially about something that you're trying to imply even like American Psycho about like capitalism and patriarchy and toxic yeah all of this toxic masculinity um some people are not going to pick up on that and that yeah that's a little difficult and that's that's this is the conversation that people have been having for eons and will continue to Yeah, especially when it comes to making pop culture for like mass consumption. Yes. Kind of on the side of the creator. Create something that is meant to go to such a wide audience. Like, yeah dare I say impossible for everyone to understand what you're trying to say. Because everyone has different experiences. that that the Like, but that's what makes it hard.
Speaker: That's what makes it lovely to analyze and interpret. It's fun. hmm. Also makes popular art, specifically, what it is. Yeah. You know? so so shaing it's And And I do like seeing the ways that other people interpret things, especially if, to me, they're so wrong. Which, nobody's wrong.
Speaker: Yeah. Unless you're wrong, but, like... Yeah. I think what of more often kind of comes the case, personally, and as much as I, like, put a certain amount of, like, mental effort into it, is...
Speaker: sometimes you yep sometimes you're like okay i feel like that's wrong but i think what's like underlying that is an insecurity that you you're wrong that i'm the one who's not understanding something yes which is how i feel sometimes with with with with an examples of like obsession or how people felt about one battle after another where i'm like oh maybe i have blinders on for this thing and maybe that that's super weird yeah yeah and i think and i think that's like the value of engaging anyways if you can kind of like wipe away kind of some of that insecurity is like yeah you kind of are able to interrogate yourself and your like lenses and frames that you kind of automatically have um whether you realize well yeah kind of that you might take for granted and also yeah kind of learn that
Speaker: um it's a whole like tapestry of responses that kind of give a thing a meaning yeah um and it's okay if yours doesn't align completely with someone or if you see this point but not exactly that point and you kind of can respect this and you know that like that's all it's all fair game these the things i tell myself because that's true apparently it matters to me but i'm like oh it's like that that's real yeah you know the marketplace of ideas so true sure, i mean, maybe that's what the, like, yeah that in its most platonic idea or platonic state would be. Just kind of acknowledging that.
Speaker: Who knows? Yeah. don't know. okay adding to that yeah well thank you for joining us if you made it this far make sure to follow us fixated.pod on all socials um i know i guess we'll see you next week nope yes the wednesday after exactly weeks back two weeks um countdown your every week will turn into 20 years we love you odyssey style maybe we'll never make it home yeah we will maybe we don't want to go home Just kidding. Literally at home. Yeah. about it In our boxes. This box is my home. and Yeah. And love it. um In the meantime, i don't know Don't let your hubris piss off anybody and ruin your life and ruin yeah all your crew. are not a god. Try not to defy the gods. Exactly. Because it will not work out for you. Respect your fellow man. Don't go to war. I don't know. Exactly. Cut that shit out, you fucking losers. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, we love you. Bye. Bye. Bye-bye.
