Transcript
Speaker: Hi!
Speaker: Welcome back to Fixated, a podcast with us, Joelle and Ellen. I'm Joelle. And I am Ellen. This is the podcast where we talk about all the media and culture and stuff we just can't look away from. The things we just can't seem to get over. And why it all matters so much to us. In this episode, we return to Succession Season 1, and we talk about some modern, current lit - thick. like Josh Silver's fruit fly. So, you know, let's go. enjoy I'm in my little cage as I just said
Speaker: help Yeah, Jo is locked away today. I did something crazy. It's just code. Exactly. Go somewhere else. How is how is your road trip going, Joelle? It's going good. I mean, I'm just like piggybacking on the very last leg of um Friend of the Pod. Bridget's road trip. and so Here we are in beautiful sunny San Diego, as in Philadelphia.
Speaker: Beautiful. That's the best place to take a road trip. is what Yes, we're technically on route to hang out. hang out um which is exciting we keep doing that Loki hasn't been that long since we hang out. No, it really hasn't. we've been really good at collabing recently we haven't been good at collabing on weeks that we record. But that's okay.
Speaker: it's just for us it doesn't matter there's never proof of it happening but it is happening it's actually really silly because you were like oh man i guess we could but As we've gone on before, our, like, filming schedule, the, like, weird acrobatics of, like, every other weekend. If we...
Speaker: We have to be really prepared to change. Exactly. but that like Every single time. I'm like, oh, maybe we could just, no. Nope. No. I'm not going off the schedule. Everything would be ruined. This is going to ruin the tour. for Like forever.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah we would there'd be no coming back from it so that won't be happening We still have to wait for the magic. Exactly, some that we someday, someday. It will happen. Exactly, exactly. But for now, you'll see it on Instagram probably. If we decide to post, which we're not consistent with that either. and Yeah, we remember. but
Speaker: Yeah. On Fixated Official, of course, on our personal. Exactly. On the personal. Which don't actually exist. My personal. No, don't don't come for my personal. But my personal Instagram account is. most of the time into our fan account. it's most of my pictures are of you or you're in them Yeah, I was like, yeah, if you like track.
Speaker: Everything. I guess in like the last calendar year. Mm -hmm. Like. post oxford i'm like yeah it's just when we're hanging out i'm like doing the most fun things like that sad when so exactly what else would i be posting Beats me. Beats me.
Speaker: going out to dinner. I am too. Though that was like the thing. front of the pod my birthday it was last week We were hanging out in my hometown, going out the last couple of days. I was like, you know, this isn't that bad. I get a little agoraphobic when I'm at home and I own up to that right in ways that I think are both valid and that I could honestly work on. Yeah, it was really interesting. But the main problem is like, I'm not going out.
Speaker: by myself. Like that's the big thing. thing and I'm not going to do that. No, it's just not that doesn't I'll sit at home and watch a movie. I was hanging out with like a friend the other day who was like, oh, do you ever like I used to go to bars all the time by myself just to meet people.
Speaker: like i'm not doing that that no call us like a product of our generation call us like part of the problem i don't know but it's just it's true i don't feel i don't feel the need entirely um i do like going to dinner by myself though that's fun that's a different forgotten scenario
Speaker: yeah you know if i'm at a bar like i'm fine going up to people talking being social i'll say that like i'm totally fine meeting new people but i'm not going to a bar by myself because i'm standing in the corner on my phone the whole time i can go to a party not really knowing anyone but a bar feels scary yeah that feels like i'll get murdered i'm not doing that
Speaker: I think I've gone, I'm trying to think of like the times I've gone to dinner by myself. That's one thing. Sometimes I've sat at the bar. I remember one time telling myself I was going to go to a bar and it was like more like evening. Like that's one thing. I'm not going at night at night when people are properly out. But I was like, I'll try going in the evening. It was like 6 p .m. That is good. But still, I just was too self -conscious. You know, like I just, I had my one drink, but I just was like.
Speaker: and that's it i was like i have nothing else for you i have nothing else for you i was like i gotta go i gotta and i ran yeah i guess and we're like on the same page that's all yeah we will work on maybe going out. um one of ourselves, but also maybe not. Because ideally, we would go out together. Like, why would I not go out with my friend? You and I.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Which anyways. Watch this space. excited to be here
Speaker: yes I'm sure next, next. We'll have some story. yeah about hanging out and how it was so awesome. Or maybe we'll have had a friendship ending fight and then this will be dead.
Speaker: no why would you say that kidding hang yeah that's kind of juicy I haven't had a friendship ending fight and I think that it would be fun. Not with you, with somebody else.
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to say, I was like. I don't know, man. Apparently those, I've had these. Apparently they suck. Yeah. I've had a friendship dissolve without a friendship ending fight. And that's right. Like that was awful. So I can't imagine it's any better, but maybe it is. Maybe it's cleaner. so Too well. Let's get to it, right? exactly Why don't you tell me what you've been fixated on this week? Your non you not -media wise.
Speaker: Yes, my non -media fixation. My non -media fixation has been... um competition. Ooh. Yes. just in general my birthday yeah i feel like we've i've been playing a lot of games basically doing a lot of activities and games and stuff um And a little healthy competition is just that, healthy. It's fun. ready exactly exactly and i kind of i forget now that i don't play sport game for real
Speaker: I forget that I did play sport game for real. um and that i kind of competitive like it's it's actually um an experience that i have a lot of like or a feeling i have a lot of connection to competitiveness and yeah that's always this fun we um i played top golf for the first time and i've never even once touched a golf club Really? In my entire life. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know if I knew this about you. and so yeah no i mean i'm not ah I don't know why I phrased that like I'm a golfer. I have golfed once or twice because my aunt is a golfer. And I hate that.
Speaker: Shit. So boring to me. I hate it. Well, see, that's the thing. I was like, wait. obviously top golf is not actual golf, but I was like, is this kind of fun though? It seems much better. It seems a lot more fun. yeah That's just the fun part. and Most of golfing is standing around or walking around.
Speaker: Which I'm sure if you're a man who like wears polo shirts and works in business and has no friends and just wants to day drink outside of his friends, like then it's great. but Yeah. If you're cool and normal and you like have friends and things that you can do. Why would you go golf? go Except for at Topgolf. Exactly, because then you can just do the fun part over and over again.
Speaker: Yeah. Which is, of course, hitting stuff with a stick. no yeah that was just like fun to learn a little new skill and to compete against my friends and family um and Um,
Speaker: performed pretty well i felt pretty satisfied with how i did at the end of the day those The most important, the best part of competition is when you... crush the competitors, I think. And it seems like that's what happened at Topgolf. I wouldn't enjoy it as much if I did not. um It's no fun if you're losing. Come out basically on top. If I did. like Yeah. um i didn't I didn't completely win the first round, but I tied for first. so Okay.
Speaker: there's that beautiful in the second round yes i won And so that was fun. And then I know we played some um darts in some pool. um Not good at pool, but that's fun.
Speaker: you know yeah um i'm really bad at pool but it is fun ah God awful, but it's super fun. ah Just a poor, poor showing. but It's really fun. If you're bad at pool and you're playing with other people who are bad, then it's really fun. If you are bad, and this is, I guess, how most things go. If you're really bad and you're playing against somebody who's really good. that's the worst Hate that. It sucks.
Speaker: I mean, I was the i was the worst. I was the... less skilled of the two of us were playing but like I was also kind of fine with it because we were going for long stretches with absolutely nothing. so um That's so beautiful. It was very beautiful. I don't know. It was just a very game forward last two weeks and I was enjoying it.
Speaker: um and yeah that competitive spirit uh it's really fun so that's my non -media fixation for this episode. Ellen. that's a good What is yours? They're always just so different, which actually is not a bad thing. Mine. the past two weeks have been... This one burrito that they sell in my office.
Speaker: I've really been, I think I've only had it once or twice. but i I don't go out to eat a lot and so that's a ton for me and also every waking moment, Ivan. thinking and drinking about it this cheese burrito that they have. And it's just good. It's really good. I kind of don't have too much to say about it.
Speaker: It like kind of blew up on TikTok. Exactly. I don't want to blow up my spot even more than it's already blown up. It's kind of blown up on TikTok a little bit recently. and i don't like that because that's my place and also i've been going there so like i'm not right Not a bandwagoner with this one, with my burrito.
Speaker: It's really good. Just, I need everyone to picture the most gorgeous burrito you've ever seen in your life and it's golden brown and it's crispy. Ugh. nu And there's like, you actually sold me immediately. Exactly. That's all you need to know. it It's a big. I'm a fan of... food that sometimes looks like disgusting like brown mush kind of situation. It's a big... brown mush. in the middle
Speaker: In the middle. Beans and cheese. Exactly. And it's great. yeah That's why I like going to... London with you. Because there's a lot of brown mush happening over there. Yeah, they love that. They love that stuff.
Speaker: but I do like it sometimes. Sometimes that's really tasty to me. yeah yeah okay media fixation yeah we're here for exactly the fun part Joel, do you want to? Do you want to go first? I'll go first. How to... Where should I start? Okay, okay, okay. okay So.
Speaker: If listeners recall, last episode I was talking about my plans for watching Consuming Media for September was to maybe just revisit some things that I know that I like, some favorites, um just really indulge, indulge, indulge as it is my birthday month. um If I haven't mentioned it like 60 ,000 times already. And so I have been doing that.
Speaker: a little bit not as much as i really would prefer honestly i kind of for good reasons gave up a weekend where i really could have like gotten into it but I spent time with family instead. It's okay. boo no instead of watching movies by yourself are you kidding I do have to remind myself sometimes that I can watch a movie at literally any point in time literally any other time don't stay home to do that yeah you idiot and again think my
Speaker: My present agoraphobia means that, like, I was like, I actually really should be careful how... how uh shirking any opportunity to just actually get out of the house um yeah it's really important so yeah so i've been doing i've been doing my best and some things that um i've been watching that i will touch on briefly some okay in terms of movies um i'm really just one i re -watched sinners um
Speaker: yeah i don't know i just was really trying i was trying to find something that i had seen before again obviously i've seen before that i liked um and i was like but actually not i was like i know sometimes i do that and i want to be like brain off but i was like let me yeah get into one that i know i like and it's like quite artfully done you know i really wanted to revisit it that's very it's a fall one too and it's almost halloween like that's a really good choice
Speaker: yes yes yes yes i agree and i mean it's just fantastic it's just ah It's just... it really is as good and i have my whole thing with that movie which i guess we didn't actually get to cover that much because the most we might've covered it was Michael B. Jordan's very deserved win. Yeah. I just, I think it's fantastic. I had this really really strange thing where I just felt like the people that were around me when I went to go see it. The first time did not connect to it in the way that I apparently was very connected and affected by it. um Which is like to each their own. like Sure. but ah i yes yes one thing that did rub me the wrong way was kind of the idea that like
Speaker: Some of the vampire stuff made it maybe a little cheesy, like you couldn't they couldn't take it seriously, which again. In a way like. there's a lot of like yeah kind of like on the nose like horror genre vampire genre elements that i guess could elicit that reaction but I just feel like there's just so much more to that movie that when people said that um
Speaker: or when someone said that or no there' was there's there's like a group of people um that i was talking to that I was just kind of like. i just couldn't disagree more i couldn't disagree more Because that movie like makes me cry in a real way. And I was kind of shocked by my reaction in the first place. And watching it this time.
Speaker: I once again, like by the end of it, I was like. like like almost nearly like blubbering like actually being like god it keeps getting me like oh not to brag i was really lucky when i watched that one i did like i watched it by myself but i saw it in like a packed theater and everyone was so like loving it and so happy to be there and so responsive that it was just really fun people were cracking up and like yeah usually i don't like a loud theater obviously i'm only human but like it was a really fun one to be watching when people were like talking back to the screen it was a really good one to be watching in like an excited crowd it was really fun yeah and that's
Speaker: and i like you bringing up that part of it too because it's like it's also like super entertaining like that's the thing it's obviously i mean obviously a very highly acclaimed films so these things like you know i'm not the first to say it but like yeah it's like entertaining it's funny it's moving it's like all these things wrapped in one the music's good again that like main sequence when the aspect ratio changes and the like fire the roof is on fire and the music is going and the dance i was just like
Speaker: even at home i was like hoof i was like chills that's so cool it's so cool it's so good yeah um And yeah, but the part that ah that that just like makes me cry is just that like...
Speaker: Well, I mean, it's sap. oh the sad part yeah the sad part i was exactly um i was talking to personal about it yeah a little bit and she was like yeah it's just she's like oh you know like how everyone dies i was like yeah Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty sad. um and It just makes me think of the... I mean, the vampires of it all, maybe there's just just also a certain attunement to kind of segue and make a connection with.
Speaker: the vampire story of it all because um I was also thinking about how much I love Interview with the Vampire. the show. yeah yeah just kind of like coincidentally um on my birthday when we came back from being out Turn on the TV.
Speaker: the first episode of Interview with the Vampire. oh my god season one in throes of increasing wonder exactly um was on the tv so i was like oh my god this is like one of my favorite episodes of television um for the last few years and so we sat down and watched it and i was just really thinking about How both like.
Speaker: one thing that really resonated with me in sinners let's start from like a specific scene um is the like after credit scene where preacher boy old now Yeah. um and stack it is i keep on going back and forth of which one which brother it is but it's stack
Speaker: um yes yes i know it exactly what you're going to talk about oh my god yes yes yeah sorry i'm too excited i hope i'm about to like deliver you know like that part that that's the end credit scene like especially makes me cry again because stack as a vampire and preacher boy kind of bonding over the fact that like that day before everything happened was like the best day of their lives because they were in community and they were feeling free and they were you know just like really kind of like alive with
Speaker: with the spirit of community um and love for one another. And Zach's like, yeah, it's like the last day I saw ever like saw my brother. And you're just like, last time I saw my brother, last time I saw the sun. that's Exactly. Last time I saw the sun. oh um and there's such And there's like a very exact same sentiment that occurs in the first episode of Interview with the Vampire. with um louie like pretty much the exact same thing you know exact same thing
Speaker: Yeah. Now I'm kind of blanking if the exact words are said, but it's just like. It's completely heartbreaking. And I think. both of them just like really dive into the like vampire as like as we talked about before not vampires but like metaphor for grief and just being um just like having to live through it you know um yeah and continue living through it and kind of like it just always being there
Speaker: because you literally live forever um so those that's that's a connection that has been on my mind um and i'm reading interview the vampire of the book trying to finally read it yes the copie at at ko and Yeah. That's kind of like in a way separate because I think the show's adaptation is just like quite profound in a different way. It really is. yes Yeah. It's, I don't, I've seen, I think only the first and a half maybe season of the show and I haven't read the book, but I have seen the movie. Right.
Speaker: I'm not the biggest fan of that movie. i don't have you seen the movie i know we've talked about this we talked about this i've only seen parts of it because i remember my older sister watching it um i can say i guess i can say way back when now that i'm an old woman but when i was younger um Yeah, it's, I mean, I don't know which is more. true to the text. I'll say that, but I will say that.
Speaker: Interview with the Vampire, the TV show seems... a lot better and it seems at least to deal with a lot of the themes in a better way and it Mm hmm. I don't... They get a lot of the...
Speaker: points across more clearly and they do a lot more things that I like and it's bad it's a better adaptation to you it's just a better adaptation yeah I don't know if it's a true adaptation necessarily but it is a much better one I yeah don't like that movie, I think it's weird. Yeah. but that's you and i really i guess i need to like dot my i's and cross my t's and finally sit down and watch that movie maybe i will after i finish reading the book properly i want to know what you have to say because i also watched it like
Speaker: maybe five years ago now, before I saw the show. And so maybe I would change my mind. Maybe I don't. I wouldn't. but Maybe I would understand if you disagreed with me disliking that movie.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. I mean, again, even just like the the what's it called the surface level details of it just like the cast and stuff like that i was still just say i'm like I'm like, how'd y 'all work that out? I don't know why it seems so strange that it's...
Speaker: Tom Cruise Brad Pitt like it really does I think at least for me probably part of the reason I'm not in love with it is that I really don't like Brad Pitt um I don't sure this is something true about you I don't enjoy watching the things that he's in. I think that.
Speaker: When he's in something, it gets worse. Sorry. okay I'm trying to think of a kind way to say that, and I said it probably the worst, meanest way I could have. Okay. I'm kind of a fan of his um yeah Tom Cruise, on the other hand, he went all in. he did i I can't take that away from him. He really put his heart and his soul into Lestat. He plays Lestat, right?
Speaker: yeah i'm actually not even sure i don't remember he plays one of them because also like he does in the Thank you. In the movie. They're kind of interchangeable to me. just because I... it's been so long and I don't remember it and also like I didn't connect with either of them as much except for.
Speaker: It was just Tom Cruise and the one I don't like. And the one who one the other one. Who shall not be named. yeah Exactly. Tom Cruise, though, he seems to go all in. he puts his people into it he does he does seem to i think that's like one of his main things right he's kind of like he's super enthusiastic he's like the actor right yeah exactly it shows a little Sorry.
Speaker: Um... The next thing I'll mention, the the only big bigger part is once again, a connection. to interview the vampire which is that um i mentioned the connection up front because it's really not actually that relevant i just saw um I decided to start a rewatch of Succession.
Speaker: Oh. And so I've seen all of. the first season. I made sure to get that. done so I could talk about it today. But the little connection with Interview with the Vampire is that um Daniel Malloy.
Speaker: It's played by the same actor who plays Gil Eaton. um sure the like bernie Yeah. Eric Eric Bergogian.
Speaker: sure i' i'm pretty sure that sounds right and that's his name and that was just funny because i was like ah I was like, I forgot you were here. Yeah. um Turning in a very good performance, but surprise, surprise, it's Succession, you know? It's all it's all good. No, it's... Excellent performances. God, that show. And he's very good as Daniel Malloy, of course, as well. But oh my goodness, I love succession. Yeah. I love succession. i um
Speaker: I feel like it's just been so – it's been a long time coming for me to finally do a little rewatch. It really has been. I'm surprised it took this long for us to talk about it, honestly. Yeah, I know, um which I guess I'll, like, see how my pacing is going, and maybe I'll just kind of revisit as I finish up. And that's also such a nice thing, of course. It gets my claps and my – what's it called? Hats off to the chef because it's four seasons. It's four seasons. And you get the weekly drops.
Speaker: which was so gorgeous we got to that's why that's the only reason i started watching it is that we were having like watch parties in our apartment and i was like okay i got it all my friends are watching this like i need to join in on the fun like This is what gets people to watch stuff. Community brings people together. Exactly. It was appointment television. Exactly.
Speaker: You know, again, the last. Last episode. we were talking about season lengths and stuff and look. I stand by what I say in general, is that which is that we need to move in the right direction and start getting these like. episodes per season going up a little bit. especially with respects to the types of shows you know it needs to be whatever but to that point Succession.
Speaker: is so well executed across 10 episodes a season. it's perfect and they did four seasons and it is Perfect. Yeah. perfect It's a perfect.
Speaker: show in my humble opinion slash i'm going to like test that and see if i really actually feel that but re -watching this first season. I was like... Just like... ah firing on all cylinders from the jump.
Speaker: personally i think so um I think when I was watching it for the... first time like as it was going i think the first season did actually feel a little like slow in my recollection i felt way more connected to it once we got into the second season even then like in retrospect when i was watching it i was like no the first season's very good and then now watching it fully again. um having all the knowledge of what is to come. I'm like.
Speaker: Eh? is like these characters are so awesome and like I'm relatively like... fully formed from the Chop. from the jump And I was really thinking about.
Speaker: trying to apply as much like analysis and knowledge as I possibly could to like how the characters are and how they're kind of how they're written Um,
Speaker: And I just think it's so fascinating because like the show is like. funny. and hilarious it's so fun there's certain levels of satire and stuff um and these characters are like i was really thinking about it and i was telling you a little earlier this week and i'm like and they're kind of worse than i remember like from the start like immediately like
Speaker: crass and ridiculous and just like disagreeable and annoying and like just straight up cringe and wrong and all these things I um absolutely love that like Five minutes into the first episode, specifically, I'm thinking about Roman. Like they're telling you who these characters are. They're telling you how much these people suck.
Speaker: like they just are the worst that i love that they don't shy away at all like it's They're straight up. about. yeah how bad these people are yeah there's like some lives some instances um i mean kind of more like explicitly hilariously but like connor for example and connor i think became like a fan favorite and almost like um or i guess like accurately kind of like
Speaker: the only word I can think of is like woobified. Like, you know, like people were like, Connor, like I'm a con head. Like, yes. And he just, he does have a really interesting arc where he does end up, in my opinion, being basically the most earnest. of them in a real way um and in this own way like emotionally mature Yeah.
Speaker: Somehow. um Somehow. but still like the first season um when they have this like dinner waspy dinner fundraising dinner thing um and he's just like going berserk about everything being planned well and he's like talking he's like yelling about the butter and he like goes and like threatens to fire everyone um I think it just shows again that like, battle where you're like, oh, he is actually acting like a monster. Like he's. yeah um Like this does.
Speaker: very effectively show that he is an insufferable human being. I don't i don't know what the point is. I guess it's just like funny to like think about that as the beginning of his like story, basically. and He has this ranch and he's just always being like, oh, I care about all these things, but also about... like not paying taxes like whatsoever and you just get this you get this image of this guy but i guess the like interesting part is still though like it's just i just i just want like it's just so artfully done that they are also still so like grounded for real and all have these like
Speaker: Real genuine moments, even Logan. Um, of um Because Logan's a monster. like jesus Yeah. of like, ooh, but. of being very yeah kind of like sincere Exactly.
Speaker: They show them as real people. They're not just one thing. They're not just evil. like yeah Because real people are not. So... flat like that and they did a really good job of giving them a little bit of humanity even though they're yeah pretty evil yeah but that's the thing like even like it's just ah in in in all of these moments it's like really textured because it's also like not too much it's not like any more emotion than you would expect from logan like i'm thinking about how um when
Speaker: kendall My king. Relapses. um relapses And Logan kind of like, je you know, seemingly genuinely asked Greg to make sure he doesn't like. go off the deep end basically he's like keep an eye on him keep an eye on him it's just like small moments like that that they are able to do or like when she's getting married and she like go gets into the car or whatever he like actually genuinely smiles even though literally he had
Speaker: It was like threatening her to stop working her politics job by not go and like punishing her by not going to the wedding in the first place. and i mean It's just, I just, I just have endless appreciation for like the. the intricacies of the show and I'm really excited to continue.
Speaker: watching it um i'll like shout out two separate things very quickly about this first season um Slash. I guess the first things about the show as a whole, but like.
Speaker: First of all, gorgeous i just for some reason was like watching it and i was like oh i was like you don't get better than this there's like some scene where jerry pulls kendall out to the rooftop and for some reason i was just like the so the cinematography of the show is maybe not underrated but like it's just nice to appreciate at times i was like gorgeous Paired with... the soundtracking. And you know how I feel about Mr. Nicholas Bertel.
Speaker: my top ah my top artist one year recently like 2024.
Speaker: Yeah, because between Succession and between, for me it's between Succession and If Beale Street Could Talk. He... it Bodies those scores. yeah gorgeous gorgeous stuff like i'm a fan Nicholas Patel. I'm a fan.
Speaker: of your work yeah i'm just such a fan it just it does everything it needs to do that score it's just gorgeous and the the the title sequence Yeah. whatever the theme song the theme song it's awesome um famously my favorite iteration of it is the season two one that starts with the drums it's the best one to me i really like that one um
Speaker: So there's that. And then I just really liked one line. There's many lines and I was really torturing myself trying to think of if I was going to like really call out a bunch of them um because there's plenty of funny ones. And also just like.
Speaker: deep wonderful ones but yeah one line that stood out to me from maybe an also an underappreciated character character character unappreciated character um Marsha Marsha. Right? She's sick. I mean, that's a baddie. And she's yeah also morally dubious, but she's a baddie. Ashton's wedding when...
Speaker: oh god i'm sorry the way i could go on and on about it yeah shiv's it shis a crazy person low -key poor tom anyways yeah i love her I love it. I love it. um yeah
Speaker: She's awesome. Shiv is really trying to play her cards and do the thing. And she like is trying to back blackmail. logan now whatever at her wedding um yeah at her wedding reception girl boss behavior exactly and marcia she says he made you a playground and you think it's the world
Speaker: And I was like, whoa and isn't that the freaking thing like that's yeah such a good line that's such a good line to choose because it sets up again it is the truth of a
Speaker: large part of their dynamic. These kids, these kids. which is, yeah, it's kind of hard to actually simplify it, but that is a... very astute observation um like yes exactly because they're low -key playing around bro Like they're playing around. But also it's on Logan as well.
Speaker: Exactly. Exactly. Just saying, just saying that, you know, that framing, you could think it absolves him, but it doesn't quite. Right. Yeah. quite yeah and i think yeah that's obviously a central tension with the show but brilliant show The first season is so good. um And I was really happy to have. gotten to watching it over the last two weeks slash this month.
Speaker: that show it's just annette you're bringing back so much for me I'm kind of forgetting oi I'm remembering. how much I loved. Roman and Jerry specifically that plotline oh my god yes I think that's the best thing that's ever everyone happened on television ever I'm like ever will happen
Speaker: it's It's quite up there. what i i I mean, I'm almost ashamed to say that I kind of forgot. got jerry until she shows up which is only in the second episode but jerry came on the scene i was like jerry my girl yes she's such a good character again like so So fun.
Speaker: In a real way, like she's a fun character because she's so deadpan. Yeah, I like what they they get into. And it's such a good her with Roman who's like this little... like weaselly little i love him disaster character because I love A boy who's a mess, a fictional boy who is a disaster. And he has been, he's kicked dog. He's.
Speaker: on the ground like this vibe yeah and he sucks and i and he sucks and she's so awesome And so they make such a good. no it was it was it was it's it was such a beautiful thing and it was such a beautiful time when they did maybe it was season was it for season maybe three or four i can't remember the promo pictures do you remember that one oh my god yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um and the roman jerry heads went
Speaker: Hmm. That's included. Yes. it was awesome my god yeah Yeah, we'll have to try to even insert that one. I need to go look it up. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm a Roman jury truther. That's the only...
Speaker: my only qualm i think they should have had a happily ever after and also In a real way, I don't, and I'm ah i'm aware that that was not going to happen. Obviously, I was watching the show.
Speaker: Bye. In my head. They went off into the sunset together. Yeah. I actually, and that's the thing with the show. Like you really. won't for real find me complaining about no and like i think they basically did every storyline exactly as it should have been. I think that Vanellia was kind of perfect. Yeah. and even the roman jerry stuff how they because like at the same time like jerry's like a grown woman like what is she what is she gonna actually screwed up like
Speaker: that never should have None of that ever should have happened. Yeah. It did. And then the way it ended was also so screwed up and just yeah all of it was horrible. God. Yeah. I was like, she's just as like self -preserving or for she is, I was like, she, the kids in a way aren't like actually self -preserving. I mean, I feel like they kind of. act in that way and then they're quite unsuccessful and they're in fact quite desperate in reaching and and grabbing at validation. um But...
Speaker: jerry loki is you know what i mean she's like she was like i have nothing for you i can't really help you she's yeah like she knows she's kind of like tom in that way where like she has no she's She has to work harder. She's not going to be able to stay part of this. like She's one of the ones who's actually working to be part of this. like there it is there it is and that's why i also um yeah watching this first season uh i think tom is such a ah obviously a good character um i think
Speaker: Matthew McFadyen is was well like I think. By the time we got to the end of the of the of the show, like people were like, wow, claps, claps, claps, claps, claps. Actually, for real. like he turned be is just like sensational. um and you see it so much also in the first season though because from where he starts, which is...
Speaker: again so complex because he is happy -go -lucky but he also sucks for real yeah that's how he treats people and how he treats greg even though i hate greg Yeah.
Speaker: ah There will be no great positivity on the pod. yeah but like that's the thing like he's always from the jump was also Weasley. Like a complete, just like unabashed, like.
Speaker: little self-preserving on weasel yeah exactly He And he went for it. And it worked for him. yeah i mean he just gets weird little thing yeah yeah um ah That's the thing. I'm just really excited to get to.
Speaker: Yeah, even that last season. um ah just there's so yeah there's such great payoff and there's it's such a story it's so good Long live succession, but for real. Succession forever. no ah But for real, that was that's like that's a formative one in its own way. That's huge. i don't know if i I don't know if this pod would have happened.
Speaker: Like maybe not. You really think about it. without being being able to become so invested in succession it's one of those like real kind of like I don't know Um, tent poles of my that's a big one for you i joined the game late tv But that was always a thing for you. yeah Every Sunday night in college.
Speaker: i'd Look over from my - our little beds were next to each other and I was like, look over, you'd be under your blanket watching Succession. Exactly. Yes, precisely. I needed to be in my sensory deprivation tank to watch Succession.
Speaker: Yeah. But. i been You could just talk and talk and talk about Succession, but like those are basically... basically the ones that I wanted to talk about. um Ellen? That's good. Okay, my turn. is your um What are your media fixations? What are you fixated on? my My media things this week were I did a lot of reading the past two weeks, which is great. Love that. but that
Speaker: takes a lot more time to read one book than it does to watch one movie this is so that's plentiful exactly yeah but yeah I read. first First off, I read the book Fruit Fly by Josh Silver, which people have really been talking about. yeah um And I really enjoyed it. I really did. I really liked it.
Speaker: but it Meet me think about ah there's A real - trend in kind of modern fiction right now, which came up in actually two of the other books that I read in the past month.
Speaker: um with Not. with just like an unlikable narrator, like a narrator who sucks. and i'm Not always. I'm not. kind of the biggest fan of like modern fiction in general.
Speaker: I tend to be really picky with my books, not with the books that I read. Because once I've started a book, I kind of don't put it down. like i don't really DNF one. I should, I have to start doing that. But like once I started, I don't want to give up on it because I have hope that maybe it'll change. It'll all change. um Yeah. Anyway, so I finish all these books, but I don't.
Speaker: I don't really like a lot of modern fiction and I really don't like the unlikable narrator thing because I want to read about somebody that I care about. And when someone is annoying. I get annoyed. Shocker. Yeah. but That was one that I actually could handle it because also that one, it kind of goes back and forth between two main characters. One woman who's...
Speaker: writing a book. And... uh guy who is kind of drug addict guy. on the street in need of help and she's kind of stealing his life stealing his story um to write her book it's really similar to a lot of other kind of it gave me the vibe of a lot of other books that kind of yeah going around as well right now are yellow streets Yes, and that's that's probably the one.
Speaker: or That's a very similar premise and someone where I can relate to what you're saying. Like the main character, the ones who like thoughts in life you have to live in.
Speaker: You're like. in a way i can barely handle this you are driving me crazy don't um do that yeah but i find it i'm not gonna say i don't know if i would say that i like like that experience and would continue to seek it out but i think it's a very like interesting experience for reading and like and worth Yeah. It.
Speaker: in a way like it's just it's it's it was kind of a fascinating thing where i was like oh i didn't know i could even because in a way i'm not the biggest reader so it kind of was just like one of those things where i was like i didn't even know i could feel this way like yeah in reading a book there is kind of the assumption i think with a lot of um Reading that, yeah, that like a reader, even if they're an unreliable narrator, they still might be likable or they still are doing things that you can kind of.
Speaker: understand and appreciate. but when they kind of like really like test your empathy and stuff like that and your um and understanding I don't know. It makes one of those things that I'm like, oh.
Speaker: Yeah. yang like you're kind of it makes me also think the writer is quite skilled in like being exactly that's the thing get you there to get you to dislike somebody It - Kind of. At risk of sounding like... incredibly pretentious. I have been trying to read a lot of different types of books to get like a lot of different just perspectives because I don't want to just be reading one style of book. Like I think that.
Speaker: if you want to try to understand. i don't know other people and how the world works in general it's good to get like a lot of different perspectives from different like yeah eras and different genres and different all these things but that doesn't mean i like doing it just reading a lot of these books that i hate which to be clear fruit fly i really enjoyed i think i gave it a five out of five on my goodreads like i really loved it it was really really well done But I just yeah, I had some difficulty reading from the one perspective of um the woman.
Speaker: Mallory? Maybe I think her name was. It was also one of those ones that like, you know, some books when you're on the train. You don't want to be reading on the train. Yeah.
Speaker: this one because she kind of is trying to understand this like gay man's experience and his way of life and whatever and so part of it She has like created a Grindr account and she's... trying to talk to other men on Grindr to like kind of understand so that she can write a book from the perspective of a gay man, which she is not. she Yeah. clearly doesn't really interact with gay people and so there's a lot of like Yas queen, slay queen, slay honey boots down.
Speaker: in a really horrible way that like it's very funny to be reading but i'm sitting on the train like really trying to hide my book so that no one's looking over my shoulder being like what is this girl reading yeah it was just funny um yeah so i read i read that oh that's my other thing about fruit fly it really reminded me also not necessarily with the same plot line which i didn't read yellow face i think you did right um yeah but like similar similar ish plot
Speaker: with that but it reminded me a lot of the book big swiss which did you read that i read that one maybe like a year ago another one that was really popular for a while and that it's That one is about a woman. Forgive me if i I should have, I could have. looked up the plot again to be 100 % correct, but forgive me if ah it's been a year. It's about a woman who she like writes down.
Speaker: She listens to this therapist's... sessions and like does all the transcriptions just for it. right So she's just listening to all these different therapy sessions and she becomes obsessed with this one woman who lives in her town who's going to this therapist and she kind of starts to stalk her.
Speaker: And it's a really just kind of similar vibe of woman Kind of starts going crazy and unknowingly stalking. this person and they both have these kind of like queer obviously they're both undertones it's not even undertones i was gonna say undertones but like that's not they're both queer stories about queer people Yeah, Big Swiss was another one that like... People really, really loved it. i It was really well done. It was really well written. It wasn't my type of book necessarily. Yeah.
Speaker: Maybe because of the unreliable, unlikable narrator thing? Maybe it was just like the plot in general. I don't know. The stalking thing? Sometimes I don't like it. Sometimes it freaks me out. Yeah, I think that's fair. yeah It's funny because this kind of... um came up with um
Speaker: a little more recently i was rethinking about the book rejection and it's like a couple of stories that end up intersecting and it gets really meta and very strange like it is like top line i find it's a very like it's a kind of insane read um um But I guess it kind of like, I guess it fits in this category of like.
Speaker: uncomfortable unlikable narrators i think he like honestly very much leans into that the entire like across each story like these characters are like not like they're they're they're not doing well they become essentially menaces to society and to themselves it's interesting that it fits i guess into this i guess more like
Speaker: weird lit fic I think that's that kind of a thing like something of a genre, right? That sounds like an official term. It's definitely yeah something I've noticed at least. Right? um And so I guess there's just that, like, again, because I find myself not as much of a reader, I kind of like.
Speaker: don't I don't have. actually that much to say like i don't have um i know that's my limits of being like here are trends in um contemporary fiction that i care a lot about like i don't know it's just that Whatever.
Speaker: not entirely my... Monkeys, not entirely my circus, I guess. Honestly, not super mine either. I'm working on reading more. and Sometimes I read a bunch of books and sometimes I don't read any at all.
Speaker: Um... But I guess I just find this like genre of... books. i guess again in the sense of like putting in the position to like like you're reading something uncomfortable. um And.
Speaker: kind of fort like testing kind of like where you can find Like... the desire to like engage yeah further or like to what point um which is kind of tricky territory even for the writer i'm assuming because you kind of don't want to actually be distasteful like it needs to and have a point It's definitely like a theme in.
Speaker: kind of just like modern lit right now actually it's a point of part of what they keep saying in Fruitfly because she's an author and she at the beginning she has written like ah a bestseller in the past and she's trying to think of how to write another and she like goes on this thing where she googles how to write a bestseller because she's gotten she's had writer's block for like 10 years and she whatever yeah the thing is i think I think the line that is repeated a couple of times is like, go dark go gay go gay go dark something like that of like how to write a successful novel that people like and people read like
Speaker: right now people want to read some like screwed up stories about yeah A lot of it is like torture porn of like what people want to be reading. I am thinking specifically yeah a little life. Maybe that's one that.
Speaker: Granted, I haven't read, but I've heard of it. The author putting this one character through hell. over and over and over again and like that was people loved that one Mm -hmm.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah but i wonder what ah yeah i wonder what it speaks to i do think that there's part of it like part of what i found interesting about rejection um that i wrote extensively about which also i think the idea that like i could write and express opinion about something that
Speaker: would could genuinely be completely different from how other people engaged with something and being like oh shoot like like something i guess if you're going to elect to do that then you kind of have to exactly deal with not the end of the world but yeah just having this.
Speaker: has almost like helped me form opinions that i'm more confident about obviously everyone has opinions that change but i a lot of mine tend to be like transient especially when i'm not super confident about the way that i interpreted something i tend to just like i think i liked something but i'm not confident but then i learned that all of my friends hated it and like oh okay maybe i actually didn't like it but once i yeah like really sat down thought about the way i felt about something
Speaker: recorded it and put it on the internet like yeah i gotta stick to my guns with there um yeah So I kind of like it. I kind of like yeah having to, which you can still obviously change your opinion and I still do all the time, but. But I think it's a both and type of situation. I like being able to like. forcing myself to think more about something.
Speaker: before i form correct opinion or before i form a real opinion corrected yeah and yeah and then like it's out there and so even if i talk to someone that maybe like maybe in the past if i was speaking to someone i didn't know Or like didn't know that well. And they were like, oh, well, I hated this. I would just be inclined to agree with them. But I can't do that now because then what if they come across this and I'm saying how much I love it? Like, I know. Right. So I have to.
Speaker: stick to my guns and actually not lie. I know it kind of like. four to five like i kind of had that same experience because i reread the essay that i wrote yeah i guess just again another like both hand thing and both like helped fortify me against somewhat of like an anxious spiral. But then also I was like, it did make me kind of think.
Speaker: of yeah the like malleability of like an opinion though the main point and like the main things that i was interpreting out of the book and it wasn't a review per se it was just kind of really and i was trying to write about how like digital technology and um and media and stuff like play a role throughout.
Speaker: the book um and kind of speak to that in that being part of the book the internet social media stuff i do wonder if part of the reason that we have books more with these like unlikable characters um because again i also wrote a little bit of an essay of sorts on yellowface now like
Speaker: two two almost three years ago. That's crazy. that was talking about how social media and stuff was was utilized in that book. um and kind of how it's all, so much of that book is about like, I mean.
Speaker: Yeah, the main character is kind of going crazy and... she genuinely thinks she's being haunted and kind of how social media ask acts as another entity kind of an even more amorphous entity that kind of like works in this like haunting way and kind of makes her super paranoid and stuff like that i wonder if we have more of these like unlikable narrators and stuff because
Speaker: maybe in some senses without having fully thought through this so hopefully it's not a simplification but um we kind of assume are kind of curious about the um maybe more pessimistic about the like inherent Good.
Speaker: natured, good faith act. actors and also maybe wonder ourselves about our own like the actual Yeah, our I guess our own like moral alignment in a certain way. Like there's so much kind of like. on the internet. I feel like the internet's a very our conception of the internet is like very pessimistic i wonder if that explains a little bit more of these like narrators that are
Speaker: Cause in writing through them and making them your main character, like, I guess you are trying to like examine a certain psychology. in a sense like someone who is who is acting badly or again more like dubiously more morally. Yeah. um and yeah i wonder if we just have more of like a curiosity about that increasingly about like i do wonder
Speaker: They're like... In the past month, two other books that I read that were Similarly, like I... didn't like The New Yorker. I read Boyfriend Material by Alexis Hall. That one I think is being made into a TV show or a movie or something at some point, which is why I wanted to read it really quickly. That one was really fun.
Speaker: easy, like quick, short. um little romance read. um that when the main character was super unlikable he was just mean He was a bully. um To his...
Speaker: His... ah love interest? Um... i didn't like that i'm so i'm intrigued to see was there like an awareness of that Like... So the plot of that one is he's the main character is the son of like a famous rock star. And so he's used to...
Speaker: always being in the paparazzi and this and that. And it's kind of a fake relationship story he's trying to get. He needs like a... Uh... PR appropriate boyfriend. um And so he starts dating this like lawyer who's a friend of his friend.
Speaker: um and they don't like each other it's also like enemies to lovers romance but He's so mean to this other guy. And he a little bit is. he's like oh like sorry it's just because of the way that i you know am and the way that i grew up and i'm so used to the paparazzi and i can't trust people and so there's like a little bit of self -awareness but he's right but you're saying it's a little bit more like incidental to like a fruit fly that's like maybe trying to
Speaker: explore that like exactly exactly and i'm with that one i'm intrigued with how it's going to be brought to the screen if they're going to try to make him more capable because Like while there is an explanation to the way that he's acting, a lot of the times it - It just kind of came across as like, oh, they're having this really lovely moment and then it's too much for him. And so he lashes out and it's.
Speaker: ah Sure, like that's absolutely understandable and it's true, but it's not. really fun to watch or read um so i'm interested to see how that one will be adapted yeah Yay. People loved it. I liked it.
Speaker: I didn't dislike it at all. It was very cute. um Yeah. but People loved it. Still a level of being like. exactly it wasn't yeah i'm also i'm not a romance Girl. Like, I don't read romance novels.
Speaker: I don't tend to like them. So I don't tend to read them. So grain of salt with me not loving that book. Like that does not mean it was not a good book. And I'm sure. If I like the show, I will have...
Speaker: I will like the book better. my opinion on that will change. you know if it's destined to change it will change exactly to be exactly which That reminds me, segue, I have like one other tiny thing to say that just, I guess, adaptation of it all.
Speaker: I, a while ago, read the play Yaga by Kat Sandler, which is very soon going to come out on Crave and AMC+. plus in America. I'm really excited for that. um Yeah, it was ah a really quick one. I really enjoyed reading it. I don't read a ton of plays, so it was fun to read. I think I like reading a play. I haven't done it often.
Speaker: but that one too it was interesting because it like was intentionally. created with a really small cast. Like they had multiple actors playing. the same characters like there were only maybe five actors playing like 10, 15 characters that each had a couple. And then I don't think this would necessarily give anything away. There's kind of like that kind of comes into it later.
Speaker: That kind of becomes part of it that there's. a lot of overlap in the way that these people look at least um yeah And so I'm intrigued how that will. show on screen because obviously they're all different actors, but...
Speaker: Hudson Williams is playing two characters. um And so, like, it it does... a little bit of that does happen. with the multiple actor things. I am wondering... about that just in the way that they They gave him blue eyes in that show, and I don't think... right And it is really frightening. in all the images that I've seen. and i Don't think. based on the what I read that that was necessary at all. I don't know why they did that.
Speaker: Maybe we'll have an in -universe explanation, but yes, it's a mystery until we know for sure. It just made me laugh seeing the first promo pictures of that because I was like, why did they do that? Like the character, yeah he's...
Speaker: another oh my god actually now i'm remembering because i maybe texted you when this happened maybe didn't i definitely made the mental note to text you Hudson Williams' character, I think it's Henry, that they're talking about. He's like not a nice guy. He's kind of a piece of shit. And one of the scenes when they're talking about him and they're describing how much this guy sucks, they're like, oh, and he's got a podcast. Okay.
Speaker: Look, And it is different when a man does it. but Yes, mean it is different when a man doesn't. Yes, yes. More women should be picking up the microphone, putting on the headphones, et cetera, et cetera. And that I will stand by that. But at the same time, you know, as of yet.
Speaker: Podcasters are not a protected class. yeah And so... Yeah. When people have something to say about it, I let it i let i let them rock. i let them You're right. i've just always I've always been a fan of the medium, so I've never had shit to say.
Speaker: Yeah. And now really and I'll stand by that. So. yeah so i've never i i i'm not a hypocrite but you know what i mean i'm like i'll you'll never hear me saying anything necessarily but say what you gotta say and i'll kind of i'll also read the room and see if i can um admit to having one exactly so e
Speaker: um It's not always safe out there. Because it's not welcome in all companies. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. yeah i'm really I'm super excited for that one. I'm excited for that too. I can't wait to see it on the screen. Obviously a big fan of. Todd's Williams, um but also so ah Noah. Read.
Speaker: read thank you and yes Who was in the Vampire List o this last season? by the way Oh my God. i don't that's so exciting definitely didn't know that was carrie ann moss there we go I kind of adore her. I'm really excited to see her as well. yes yeah The cast seems stellar. The vibes seem cool. I'm excited to walk for the watch. It's good for this time of year.
Speaker: Mm -hmm Definitely, definitely good. I'll have to get AMC +, I guess. yeah i think i should be able to watch that actually um i've played for amc plus before to watch interviews with vampires so yeah i can always go back but okay yes so that's a good like looking forward to
Speaker: the space, et cetera, et cetera. um to close out the episode, I guess. Fantastic. awesome all nice Thanks for listening. Quick one today. Yeah. Another fun one, obviously. When is it anything but? We went over some faves.
Speaker: And... books which we... yeah barely talk about but it is within the remit pod exactly we can do a book we lost every once in a while we can be literate every once in a while exactly we can sit down and read and not you also know how to read yeah not just turn our eyes to squares as my parents used to say watching tv um like a goat like a goat everyone they never connected it to the good no me either until now but goats have square pupils and that's why i'm afraid of goats i don't like that
Speaker: I don't think that's right. And that's very valid. That's not of God. to feel No. It's not. Okay. I think that yeah that's it. Yeah. Fantastic. I think we're good. Okay. Thanks for listening again.
Speaker: um fixated .pod on all socials if you are interested or if you're not you should follow us anyway um yeah see if there's anything for you we cover here probably i' brilliant a jillion topics. Even if it's just a little bit on a lot of things, that is the way we roll. I love a little of a lot or a lot of a little. Yes. Whatever. More is more or it's less sometimes. Exactly. And I've always said that. that. Okay. With that.
Speaker: Bye. Goodnight. See you next time.
