Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Heather Dean
192 Plays4 years ago
Heather Dean is a self-taught artist living and working in her hometown in the San Fernando Valley with her dog Jimi Hendrix.
Her work deals chronically with subversion, the dreamworld and the absurdity of life and death.
https://www.instagram.com/heatherdeaner/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guests
00:00:03
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Vellante. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer. This is Ken Vellante, and I am here with Heather Dean for an episode of Something Rather Than Nothing.
Heather's Artistic Beginnings
00:00:27
Speaker
Heather, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
00:00:33
Speaker
Yeah. Um, well, uh, I like, like a lot of guests as far as seeing their visuals and seeing what they do. I connected with Heather on her Instagram and I expressed to her just a love of her.
00:00:47
Speaker
art doodling creations and it was like it just it had a really good vibe for me and spoke to me like from what she did to me. So I've asked Heather on to ask these important questions since I love I love her work. Heather first question first first question. I know you're chomping at the bit and you're ready to go. Let's hear it. All right. So Heather Dean is born. Is she an artist when she's born?
00:01:16
Speaker
100% yes. I like was very specific like as like a very young child like I would only wear clothes that had animals on them and like cowboy boots with fringe and like leggings and like I was very like I wouldn't wear anything else like I was very like, like literally like just from every like from as early as I can remember like I
00:01:42
Speaker
just like had like a vision of like, and I was like very like specific and I think those idiosyncrasies like ended up, like I look back and I'm like, oh yeah, I definitely was just an artist. Like, you know. Did you find yourself, go, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, and also, you know, like my father was like also an artist and drew like a lot of like
00:02:10
Speaker
comics and cartoons and stuff. So he taught me how to draw. And then once I learned how to do that, it was like it was on, you know, like was on. Yeah. Were you the one who was always kind of like doodling a sketch and making kind of like uncommon connections? What was around you in displaying those? Oh, yeah. I mean, like I would we would literally like I would draw with my dad and we would do like we drew like
00:02:37
Speaker
the David Bowie and the Spiders from Mars band. But they'd all be wolves. I think I still have that drawing somewhere. I'll have to post it. I'd like to see it. Pause in the important podcast. We'd love to see that piece. Go ahead, Heather. Yeah, I've got to unearth it somewhere.
Art as Therapy and Process
00:03:00
Speaker
So you live in Southern California.
00:03:07
Speaker
I don't know right around you as a vibrant art scene, but a lot of people think art in creation and movies and expression and maybe sun and all that and all that type of thing. I wanted to ask you about art itself. One of the things, and I'm going to ask a big question up front because
00:03:33
Speaker
I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts about what is art? Like a definition for you or when you do it, is the work that you're doing, you're creating, what is art? What's the whole type of thing in your creativity? So art is a portal to the dream world. Yeah.
00:04:03
Speaker
Just kidding. But like kind of not. I mean, it's like it's like a you know, it's like it's like a portal to a different dimension. No, I mean, for me, it's like it's like the act of creating is like a respite from like boredom and just like the trauma of like living. Like it's literally like it's a total escape for me. And like I'm very selfish about my art because I'm like
00:04:33
Speaker
Like I'm just going to do what I want and, um, I'm just going to be authentic and like, I don't really care like if it's successful at all. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, it's like art to me is, um, therapy, like, you know, and it's like, um, something that I, that I take pleasure in doing and it's really important to like,
00:05:00
Speaker
enjoy what you're doing like I kind of think of life as like that scene like on the Titanic where like it's sinking and like there's like those those guys playing the violins yeah like as it's sinking and like they know they're gonna die but they're like playing the violins like they're gonna go out doing what they enjoy and that's kind of how I see life and art damn that shit that shit's profound Heather damn
00:05:28
Speaker
Did that wake you up this morning? Yeah. I think you captured it for me right there. Hey, I want to dig in because I know I could talk to you about it with kind of like processing in how you're drawing and illustrating and doodling. And I don't mean doodling as the kind of dismissive term, but just kind of like the stuff that we're doing.
00:05:53
Speaker
You know, I think a lot of people do that. I've done it over time. And I found it very interesting because doodling and writing and drawing kind of the strange type of things where I am has been something that I've done. But it's been like the only continual art practice that I've had throughout my life. But I've always been dismissive of it. And so one of the things I wanted to ask you about the process, and here's my impression.
00:06:23
Speaker
My impression is when I'm doing that and creating those things or juxtaposing things or I'm in a long meeting and doing that, creating in that type of way, that I know that the process in itself is supposed to be helpful or supposed to be like some sort of physical thing that you're doing to help you. And I've always struggled or throughout the show with a little bit of a back and forth between
00:06:49
Speaker
the process of doing that and the thing that you create. And I think that artists themselves are sometimes like super attached to, as long as I'm moving my hands like this and putting these colors here and then that, whatever the hell the damn thing is at the end of it, who gives a shit? Whereas, you know, more some would be like, well, I like the process and I'm tied to the process, but my picture of my little perfection in world, the output is super important to me.
00:07:18
Speaker
What is your relationship with your process of doing that and, you know, kind of like what you end up putting out there? Yeah.
Creative Process vs. Final Product
00:07:27
Speaker
I mean, for me, like it's kind of easy because like the process is like way more important for me. Like I I kind of feel like
00:07:37
Speaker
If the end product is cool, that's awesome. But the process of making stuff, I just feel like people should spend more time doing that. It's a cool way to stick it to the man, is just spend your time making cool shit. The process itself is super important.
00:07:56
Speaker
You know, I feel like, you know, we're like in this very like hyper capitalist like society where like the the finished product is like, you know, fetishized or whatever. But like, I think like the actual making of it, especially art, because it's like it's a total like, fuck you to spend all your time doing that. You know, it's like you're, you know, because it's like it's it's labor that you're not alienated from, like you're like into it, you know, and so it's like,
00:08:21
Speaker
I don't know. That's kind of just how I see it. It has a decent chance to be yours, kind of, or yes, right? Totally. It's a different kind of work.
00:08:34
Speaker
I feel like just the act of doodling to me, that's so cool. It's the best part. Just experimenting and just the activity of drawing or doodling is really important. And we lose that. I feel like it's a playfulness that we lose. That's kind of beaten out of us as we get older. We all start out as artists. We're all drawing with crayons and coloring
00:09:04
Speaker
drawing things. And we're asked to draw things when we're little, you know, it's like, that's a skill that we have, you know, and then gets kind of beaten out of you. And I think it's important, like, you know, like to to retain some of that playfulness. And in your in your adult life, I think it's really important to play. And, you know, I think that's a that's what doodling and art making like is for a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. And
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for saying that. I want to ask another piece related to it that has to do with my experience and then kind of asking about, you know, your connection to it. I found it so interesting when I was talking about how I would create maybe a little bit more informally like some of the things that you do and kind of draw where you are. And what's really interesting to me is that through the show, I found out that like I recognize that I've always done that.
Ken's Geometric Reflections
00:10:00
Speaker
But I became interested in the fact that
00:10:04
Speaker
I identified that I created, when I would do that almost all the time, would be to create geometric shapes that were ordered, that were angled, that built on top of each other. And there could be 10 of them, or there could be like 2,000 of them. So for me, it was all geometric, and I had a guest on
00:10:25
Speaker
Raven Juarez on episode 100, and she was talking a couple pieces. It really kind of blew my mind. One was like, well, rather than expressing the chaos, I'm paraphrasing, but rather than expressing the chaos around, you're like establishing order, like in your head, order, order, shapes, order, shapes. Like your mind's just saying order, order, fit, fit, fit. And I became so deeply interested with,
00:10:53
Speaker
what it is that I would create in that situation and what would be revealed, like what's revealed in doing that. When I describe that for me or people that know me, they think that because of some of the maybe more weird or eccentric things that I'm attracted to or like the display and things like that to be like, it seems really odd that you're like, these are control pieces rather than expression.
00:11:20
Speaker
I don't want you to try to figure that out because we don't know each other that well. But as far as your process in your creation, are you trying to create things new? Are you trying to order your world? Are you just being like, here's the dream world, the vessel to the dream world? What's going on for you in that process? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it really matters what exactly you're doing.
00:11:46
Speaker
Thank you. It's fun. You enjoy doing it. It's fun. Like, yeah, I don't know. I'm pretty hedonistic about my work. Like I'm I'm like the minute like someone tries to like box in what I'm doing, like I'm like, fuck you. Like I and then I just do something completely opposite. You know, it's like, like I might have like a what's it, oppositional defiance disorder. Like we're like, I don't know. Like I don't really think I don't really think like
00:12:16
Speaker
too much about maybe more the content, but I don't really think so much about my intentions as far as if it's like if I'm compensating for other things by doing art the way I do. It's kind of just like my own little slice of freedom. And freedom's very important to me.
00:12:46
Speaker
I feel like my art and my process of just doing whatever, that's a really big part of my personal freedom. And I'm not even super concerned with other people seeing it. I mean, that's cool if people see it. And it affects them or touches them in some way. But that's not like, I don't need that validation from other people.
00:13:15
Speaker
I kind of have my own, I have, I don't know, maybe my dad just breaded into me this self-importance and grandiosity. Of your expression, right? Of you being able to say what you want to say, yeah. Yeah, and I'm confident in my work. I'm not this tortured artist who's like, oh, I fucking hate this, and I need to tear it up. I see my work, and I'm like, oh, it's fucking rad. Why didn't I make that sooner?
00:13:45
Speaker
Well, let's talk. I want to tell I want to like we talked about this a little bit before, but I want to tell the the audience that what I think is just funny and tantalizing of the idea of that you had produced you had produced the work that that it's awesome that it didn't even have a title. But you said you produced it a doodle made while in support group. And it was and you can tell more of the detail, but, you know, always talking about a visual
00:14:15
Speaker
to the listeners is difficult. But I want to tell you that for me, it's like this rodent with the Miss America sash across and the teeth.
00:14:28
Speaker
And for me and my little brain, for me, it was like some sort of weird rodent Courtney love on stage and vulnerable. That's what it was for me. And I told Heather, I was like, Heather, man, I got to tell you, man,
Spontaneity and Humor in Art
00:14:45
Speaker
I freaking love this. And so Heather and I had to deal with the fact that she was like, what the fuck do you like? Like, what is this thing?
00:14:53
Speaker
That was just something I put together. And so I became fascinated by the experience of like,
00:15:01
Speaker
And this happens with other guests. I like the work, but how you produce something, I'm like, that shit is fucking brilliant. And you are like, OK, cool, dude. So I just wanted to note that kind of, I think when anybody puts out a song or a picture or a photograph, the person on the other hand can be so personal. They're like, that speaks to me. And I don't know why. Right. Yeah.
00:15:31
Speaker
I'm like very like, I don't know. I enjoy that you reacted that way to that piece. Like it's literally like I, you know, a lot of my work is like very dark, like dark themes and stuff because I'm like, I'm attempting to love that part of myself that like went through fucked up shit, you know? Um, but a lot of my, a lot of my work is just like really impulsive and humor is really important to me. Like,
00:15:56
Speaker
humor is like a huge part of what I do. And like it's, you know, I probably also learned that from my dad, you know, because he drew a lot of like cartoons and comics, and it was always funny, you know. But yeah, that that Miss America piece, like, I literally was just like bored in this like group. And I was like, I'm going to draw a groundhog. Like,
00:16:23
Speaker
that has really nice hair. And it was just very spontaneous. And I don't know. I feel like when I lose that, when I think too much about what I'm doing, it just totally kills the vibe. Sometimes you just have to draw a groundhog wearing a Miss America sash.
00:16:44
Speaker
And thank you for doing that as well. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure. Anytime, Ken. Anytime. So no, I just wanted to point out that kind of unique experience.
Art's Joy and Connection
00:16:59
Speaker
And that was a great joy. Heather, you talk about art. And I know you have some thoughts about what art's supposed to be doing. I don't know whether it's for you or kind of like maybe a disruptive element
00:17:14
Speaker
Yes, you mentioned freedom, you know, I don't want to speak for you But so what I want to ask is what is the role? What is the role of art? That you think and I'm saying maybe for you know yourself. I know you've talked a bit about that for yourself But what about us as humans? What's the role of art? Like what do we do with art? Why do we need it? Um You know, I don't know that I have like a very noble
00:17:42
Speaker
answer about that. I mean, I kind of feel like it's like an impulse to document, you know, just and pass the time, you know, like, it's, I'm not sure that it's like this big, like, way to communicate things, like, I don't know, like, for me, like, it's more like, I
00:18:10
Speaker
the role of art for me is to make, I don't know, just life more enjoyable and more authentic. Honestly, when I'm drawing doodles of cartoons or comics, because I do
00:18:31
Speaker
fine art like painting and shit too, but like yeah, I love doing like drawing comics and and little doodles and stuff because like I don't know I feel like I'm hanging out with my dad again, you know because he he died when I was 17 and Yeah, he had brain cancer and You know, he was a really big important part of my life and I was really close with him and
00:18:55
Speaker
And, um, I'm kind of like, I'm very much like him. And so it's like, I feel robbed of like that relationship. Cause like, you know, we would have still been drawing together, you know, if he was around. So when I like the role of art for me, like it makes me feel connected to him and it makes me feel like, um, you know, like my existence isn't completely futile, you know, like general, like,
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and thanks for sharing that too. And I heard, you know, in your, in your, in, in your comments before about that he had imbued within you the confidence, confidence of being like, all right, if you want to, if that's, that's what you're putting out there, then
00:19:42
Speaker
Do it. Like, you're confident that way. And the size of that gift is amazing, because I talk to a lot of artists without... It doesn't make everything perfect and easy, but having the gift of that affirmation is... Damn, that's what you got going for him. And I'm happy... Sorry for your loss, but happy to hear about that you're able to take that, you know, into your practice. Right. Yeah. I mean, like,
00:20:12
Speaker
I would like show him stuff and he would just be like, great, like do more, like, you know, make, like make more. And, um, you know, he was very like subversive too. And like really just like enjoyed like making sure that I like never like lost that like playfulness and like childlike quality of like,
00:20:34
Speaker
Be of being rebellious and like being in like, you know being assertive and and like You know just expressing, you know myself. So Yeah. Yeah.
Returning to Art and Influences
00:20:45
Speaker
Um, I got I had another question in yeah It's again bit general and in conceptual could be or answered a thousand different ways, but the the question I tend to ask guess is What or who made you who you are?
00:21:05
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, I think I was really highly influenced by my father, like I've said. And, you know, I was just encouraged by him to pursue art. And then I ended up not, I ended up actually like majoring in sociology in college.
00:21:32
Speaker
And I wanted to be like a college professor and then like I totally like dropped out and like just started doing art classes and stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean I'm pretty sure like he made me like a lot of who I am just like my my taste in things and like even like the music that you know, because I used to I used to play in a band like I used to play guitar and stuff and so, um
00:21:57
Speaker
We just hung out a lot. And so he just influenced his musical taste and art taste and stuff rubbed off on me. But both my parents were very supportive of me being creative. If I wanted to go to art school, I could have done that. They were always very supportive. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
And I heard you mentioned music, a lot of influences on music. Hey, if I saw you hanging around and chatting like this, I'd be like, hey, what the heck you listen to? I'm like, I really love like right now, like I'm listening to like Kurt Vile and Brian Jonestown Massacre. And I like a lot of like 60 psychedelic stuff. Cool. And like a lot of like, you know, like I'm a big like, Elliot Smith fan.
Music and Artistic Inspiration
00:22:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:22:51
Speaker
So yeah, just, I have like a very, like it's very eclectic, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did an episode a little while back with the guy who did the Elliot Smith documentary called. Oh shit.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah, well, his name is Nicholas Rossi, and I am spacing out on the name of that, but I will. But he did the documentary on him in incredible access to stuff like radio, like live performances on Eugene, Oregon Radio of Elliott Smith, so like some really
00:23:27
Speaker
wonderful stuff. I'll make sure. Oh, yeah. Very cool. Oregon. So I'm close to the to the source on on all that stuff. So all right, Heather. Just one more thing. Yes. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is my favorite. And like that's that's like in the constant rotation. Like as someone who grew up in the valley, like especially like if you don't like Tom Petty, like you can like take a dirt nap like in my and as far as I'm concerned,
00:23:58
Speaker
Share that maybe I haven't expressed it so crassly, but yes We definitely we definitely share that no heaven adores you is the name of the document. Yes. Okay. Okay. I've heard of that Yeah, yeah heaven adores you so we go to that so Heather Why is there something rather than nothing I've led you to the most profound question
Creating from Nothing
00:24:25
Speaker
that we encounter. You know, when I saw that question, like this is going to be nerdy because I'm like a total nerd and I like to read a lot of stuff. That's cool. I saw that question. I thought of Viktor Frankl was my first. Oh, damn. Wow. Yeah. Like I was like, oh, that's such a Viktor Frankl. Like that would be a great question to ask Viktor Frankl. I mean, I feel like we create the something out of nothing. I feel like that's a lot of what art is, is like making treasure out of trash.
00:24:56
Speaker
Wow. I love that. I love that you said that the author's name, Victor, Victor Franco. Yeah. That I like I hadn't thought of him. And so I really appreciate your answer because, yeah, maybe maybe that's a lot of what he's talking about in his his great writing. Right. I mean, I feel like you can transform, you know, the terrible things you've been through.
00:25:25
Speaker
and create and you create, you create, you give your own meaning to it. Yeah. And I just, I feel like that's kind of, yeah, that's what art is, you know? Dang. I really love that. I really love that.
Engaging with Heather's Art
00:25:42
Speaker
So Heather, I was wondering for the listeners out there, I am able to, I love your art that you create. I love chatting with you. What about for something rather than nothing listeners where they can, you know, find Heather Dean's art?
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm happy to share my my Instagram is at Heather Deener and I will switch it off private mode. In preparation for people to look at my look at my come look at my shit, you know, if you want to see like that, if you want to see like my sardonic like doodles and paintings, come come hang out on IG with me.
00:26:31
Speaker
Sardonic. Yes. I'm down with the sardonic. I'm down with your theory of the violins playing as the bow of the Titanic goes down. While there is great threat and peril within that, there is great joy and beauty of the sound that's produced. Violins, dude. Violins.
00:26:59
Speaker
Heather, I wanted to thank you very deeply for hanging out with me, for accepting me and my interest in your work and for you sharing it. And like I said, it's been a really fun experience. And the humor in your works
00:27:24
Speaker
and making me laugh in weird ways you'd never know about it. Thank you. But thanks for coming on the show and sharing with us. You are very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. That was fun. And it's always a pleasure to talk about humor and art. So that was great. Thanks so much. Thanks, Heather. And I hope we chat again soon. Absolutely. Keep in touch.
00:27:57
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.