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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Series Retrospective
280 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam take on the popular Call of Duty: Modern Warfare series. From its ground breaking beginnings in 2007 to the bombastic return in 2019, the duo discuss both the highlights of the series as well as the controversies that followed.
For more content from Satsunami, please click here!
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Transcript
Introduction to Chatsunami
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Chat Tsunami. I'm Sad Tsunami, and joining me today in my very own Task Force 141, hope I've remembered that right, is my very good friend, Adam. Adam, welcome back. Roger, Roger, coming through loud and clear. Alpha Bravo, bogey on your tail.
Nostalgia for Classic Games
00:00:40
Speaker
Zulu. Barrow Row, yeah. Yeah, that's the game we're talking about today, isn't it? Super Mario.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yeah. I swear we're pro players, you know. Like, top ten is something.
00:00:58
Speaker
That's something Lee. Don't, don't, don't love me. Don't make false promises for me. Oh no. Oh, I forgot when you cannot back up that. Yeah. I forgot cause you're a pro able player instead, aren't you? That's the one game I mastered my very first, one of my very first games. And I never bothered after that. I was like, well, no need to master any other games now.
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, you just put your feet up and you're all like, this is it. This is where I peek to my gaming camera. I'm sure the original Halo will still be played 20 years down the line. It's like, you know that Simpsons episode where they're listening to like, it's disco or something and it's like, over there's a teenager and grandpa comes in and he's like, what the hell are you doing? He's like, oh, you wouldn't understand, old man. It's like, this is the future. It's like, you know what, back in my day, that used to be hip, but now it's not. And it's gonna happen to you.
00:01:46
Speaker
It's like us looking back going, yeah, Call of Judy's gonna go on forever. Forever. Forever. As we're crying of our dance because we get shot for the fifth year tying back an aimboat. So yeah.
The Evolution of Call of Duty
00:02:00
Speaker
So yeah, by that very subtle saltiness, yeah, you can tell we aren't gonna be talking about, let's face it, quite frankly, one of the best series in terms of Call of Duty, that of course being the Modern Warfare series. And I'm quite curious, like, when was it that you got introduced to this series? Like, was it right at the beginning or was it later on? No, I was there from the beginning, baby. My first Call of Duty game was
00:02:30
Speaker
was called Call of Duty Finest Hour, which was the one that was only released on consoles back in 2004. And then every year after that, I got the next Call of Duty game. So I got hooked into the series early. So I was like, you know, I was established Call of Duty, well, I say established Call of Duty player, but I was established Call of Duty fan by 2007 when the first Modern Warfare came out. And yeah, got hooked. Do you have any qualifications to back that claim up? I have many. I won't be sharing those with you because my printer's broken.
00:02:57
Speaker
Ah, of course, yeah. Yep, carry on. And also I'm going to disconnect my Wi-Fi after this and smash up the router. Oh no. Okay, so this is Adam's last episode in Chatsunami today. Yeah, it was fun guys. It was a fun run. Thanks for all the memories. Yeah, let me just play like the really sad flashback.
00:03:21
Speaker
No, no, of course. I was going to the Sarah McLaughlin Oscar song where he's like, I will remember you. It's like a slow montage. My Greatest Fails plays over the place over. And it's just like your muted sandwich talking. RIP sandwich. Yeah, he was eating Tucson. I'm going to the buffet bar in the sky. Oh my god. Yeah, moving on.
00:03:48
Speaker
Oh god. Well, this went off the rails quickly. This really did. God forbid if we didn't have a topic to talk about, I think it would just go right off the rails. But anyway, sorry if that got dragged. Yeah, I'm just trying to think. I think my first game was probably... Yeah, it was probably Call of Duty 3.
00:04:06
Speaker
or Cod3, you know? Like, I'm using its, you know, formal Christian name. It's like, please, College of Two is my father's name. Call me Cod3. I always remember, and I think I've brought this up in previous Chatsanami episodes, but I remember when I was younger, I don't want to say, like, I had, you know, like, really strict parents, but, like, my parents were always wary about, you know, the age ratings and things.
00:04:29
Speaker
So I wasn't really allowed to play like any games that were you know like a 15 if I wasn't 15. So see as soon as I reached the tender age of 15 years old I like something snapped in my head and I think I just went mad with FPS games and just started playing them all. Like I was always interested in them but I always had to play them like at a friend's.
00:04:50
Speaker
or something, but then I ended up I played, not heal, Call of Duty 3 for the first time and absolutely got hooked on it. But after that, I never actually got into Modern Warfare. I never bought it. I don't know if it's just because I was one of those people that I was seeing. I think at the time when Modern Warfare came out, this is when the kind of trend of FPS games were kind of shifting. When Call of Duty first came out, it was all about the World War II games, wasn't it? You know, the
00:05:20
Speaker
yeah a little extra pay all the you know germans from france and everything and it's that tsunami summary of world war ii thank you very much and yeah it was all about that you know the just basically world war ii shooter games but when call of duty modern warfare came out that was about 2007 and 2007 yeah
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, that was about when Battlefield was doing the same thing, other shooters were getting into the modern scene, because it was just a matter of oversaturation, wasn't it? Certainly. World War II had run its course as a setting. I will say not from me, though. I was
00:05:57
Speaker
bitterly disappointed when I heard this when Call of Duty 4 was going to be in the modern, modern setting because I am and have been a history buff and like I loved my World War II game so I was, I for one was bitterly disappointed but I think the world, the world at large was ready to move on to a new arena of combat. I think that was the same because I'd, as I said, I'd just got into Cod 3 so like going to Cod 3 and then everyone's like oh we're playing Modern Warfare instead and you're like wait no I've just got you.
00:06:25
Speaker
Because I think I got that and then the next Call of Duty game I got was either World at War or Modern Warfare 2. I can't actually remember. I'm sure it was one of them but like I think maybe it was World at War and you know it's just because it was in the World War 2 setting it was a lot more you know it was a lot more historical and everything minus zombies but let's not talk about that.
00:06:49
Speaker
But with Modern Warfare, I actually didn't get that until much later. I actually played Modern Warfare 2, I think. Yeah, it was. It was Modern Warfare 2 that I played before the first one. So, yeah, imagine my surprise. I was confused with a lot of the flashbacks.
00:07:05
Speaker
and not all of them mind you but just some of them are like who's that guy who's that guy what did that guy say when that guy spoke you know you love jumping into your first person shooter series like a good way into it don't you this is the same thing with Halo
00:07:20
Speaker
Can I just say, the only reason I did jump into Modern Warfare in the second one was because I got an Xbox 360 and that was one of the three games that came with it and I remember playing it for hours on Christmas Day and I was like, this is such a good game and then I completed the campaign a couple hours later and I was like, well, shit, what now?
00:07:43
Speaker
and I couldn't get online because, yeah, I think we spoke about this in the last, we were talking about the Xbox, in the last Chance and Army episode, but it was the fact that I didn't have one of the dongles that you could put in, so at the time I didn't have access to the multiplayer. I was stuck replaying the campaign, but let's face it, what a campaign it is.
Memorable Modern Warfare Moments
00:08:05
Speaker
In fact, I've always told you the story of when I tried to buy this game and it was on holiday.
00:08:10
Speaker
I don't believe you have. So I was on holiday too. I think it might have been the Lake District. So down in England, I went down with my family and we were going by just this game shop and I was like, oh, it went in as my child's cell. And I'm like, oh, let's see. And I picked it up. I went to hand over the money. And you know how there's a stereotype, like kind of just to briefly explain, there's a stereotype where if you hand in the Scottish version of a British pound note to an English shop, nine times out of 10 they are going to say something to you.
00:08:41
Speaker
like what the hell is this because that honestly like I've vividly remember trying to get a copy of Modern Warfare and they took my money and they looked at the money and they were like oh what's this and they made a big thing about it and it's like listen I just I want to go home and play Call of Duty just let me out of your shop and I can play Call of Duty and yeah fun times down south it's an interesting series Oh definitely like him
00:09:05
Speaker
There's certainly a lot of talk about in it, both in terms of like good stuff and bad stuff and controversial stuff. There's a lot of material in it. So just to kind of give you guys listening a kind of heads up, we are going to be diving into the original Modern Warfare series. So we're going to be talking about Modern Warfare 1 through to 3. We are also going to be touching on the re-bit, soft re-bit, hard re-bit.
00:09:32
Speaker
Reebit Reebit for 2019's Modern Warfare as well. So yeah, there will be spoilers abound and that'll give you Adam Free reign to rant about the good and the bad of these campaigns. What an excellent thought.
00:09:48
Speaker
A bit of curiosity. Focusing on the very first three games of this series, how would you describe to someone who's got no idea about this series, no idea about the franchise, how would you sell these games? So, for the original Modern Warfare trilogy, they are first-person shooters that are set in a quasi-realistic version of our contemporary world.
00:10:14
Speaker
or, you know, where I can temperate the time. The focus... God, I just got to be like... This is really difficult. I don't actually know what to say. Yeah, so it's the focus on, oh God, like a mix of both high octane like set piece action.
00:10:31
Speaker
but also more lower level small scale kind of undercover action as well like that is the worst of all these of all these terrible summaries i've done of games that is by far the worst i've ever done so apologies but i struggle to think how you would describe these i mean they're modern i suppose the quote is like modern military shooters i suppose is that you know catch all term but to actually try and describe
00:10:57
Speaker
because the thing about the original trilogy is like it goes on quite an arc like if you look they are they are quite tonal well one is quite tonally different from two and three two and three are a bit more closer together because one is very much the original modern warfare was very much it felt like almost like a kind of real it felt more realistic
00:11:19
Speaker
sort of, you know, depiction of like military action and things like that than previous Call of Duty's. While two and three went far more into the kind of Hollywood Michael Bay-esque action type thing of big set pieces, you know, and like world wars and stuff. While the first one was a far more kind of small scale, localized, almost like kind of to an extent black ops sort of type type deal. See, I was actually thinking about that when you were, I don't want to say you were struggling to describe it. Oh, I was struggling. I was floundering.
00:11:48
Speaker
But that's the thing though, it's exactly, you've hit the nail on the head there when you say they're so tonally different. Because I think we've touched on this before when we did our Black Ops retrospective video, or retrospective episodes in Chatsunami, but it's weird to see that Modern Warfare is this very
00:12:07
Speaker
Like, don't get me wrong, it's not like 100% accurate and everything, obviously. It's still a video game. But at the same time, it is probably, out of the series, it is probably the most realistic out of the three of them. Certainly the first one. Definitely. The first one, absolutely, because I've got the guns. And one of the interesting things as well is the attention to detail as well.
00:12:29
Speaker
There's one mission where basically you're in the viewpoint of an AC-130, which is just like this big bombership, and you have to cover your squad mates running across this field. But the game actually stops you from blowing up
00:12:45
Speaker
like if you see a church or a building that's protected and you bomb it then the game automatically fails you and says nope try again because it's against the Geneva Convention and I thought that's a really nice touch you know it's like it's really neat to see this kind of care and attention and the reason I'm laughing is because see if you flash forward too.
00:13:06
Speaker
the third game yeah that game features the ifo tower getting bombed by the americans and you know you can read into that if you want but
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's against some kind of convention. Yeah, it's like the first one, as you said, is very realistic. It's a lot more intimate at times, I would say, because what is quite interesting is it's quite a subversive game. I feel like the first, like, there's two halves to it. There's the one-half way year in Task Force 141, which is like this British
00:13:39
Speaker
Is it not? Is it not? It's just the SES. Okay, thank you. See, this is why I brought you on. Well, I have to make up for it after my complete flub at the beginning. I need to redeem myself somehow.
00:13:57
Speaker
But it just shows how different these games are. As I was saying, you've got the SAS Strike Force team who are hunting. Is Zakayev, isn't it? Yeah, I've heard of both. Yeah, pick your pronunciation. Who is like this ultra-nationalist who is basically trying to take over Russia, you know, after the Cold War and make everything wonderful. And yeah, spoilers, he's a bit of a dick.
00:14:23
Speaker
just putting it nicely. So on the one hand you are hunting them down and you're also hunting down like another dictator as well but on the flip side you are going through it as more of kind of a traditional college-y game where you play as just a foot soldier in the American army basically invading
00:14:41
Speaker
Is it a made up country that they go into? I think they never actually give it a name. What this game does is in your loading screen, it zooms in on a part of the world that you're in, and then it zooms in. And if you look at the loading screens for that American mission, they jump all over from Saudi Arabia to Iran to Persia.
00:15:04
Speaker
This game is banned in Yemen. It was banned in Yemen because they believed the Yemenis government claimed that it was like the country that the Americans were invading was supposed to be Yemen. But yeah, they never actually gave it a name, but I think it's meant to be fictional. Because it is very much just like, I don't want to say generic Middle East, because obviously the Middle East is massive. But you know, it's like, especially at the time this game was made, it was kind of topical.
00:15:26
Speaker
I think a lot of people probably like watching this or you know watching the game when it came out thinking yeah it's clear where their inspiration came from but yeah you play as like an American foot soldier and initially it is just your standard fear of you hunting for this like the dictator of the country who has essentially he starts the game off with a bang no pun intended by like shooting the democratically elected president I think or whoever the leader is
00:15:54
Speaker
executing them live to the world and yeah it's just like oh yeah and you get to be like the point of view for that you're like oh boy what are we going to do oh no and yeah you basically hunt him down and you think okay this is your standard fare America and all of this and then there's one level which I think is fantastically done that just subverts
00:16:17
Speaker
I mean, at the time anyway, it definitely subverted the way that FPS games were kind of seen, or like certain levels were seen, I would say. That of course being the aftermath level, where you have this big bombastic, like, not saving Private Ryan, but you know, it's like, you see, like, one of your comrades, like, helicopters fall down and crash, and you have to run in, you know, with your teammates, and like, basically like, shoo off the attackers, you're like, shoo, get away! Get out of here, shoo! Shoo!
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah, and you grab, you know, the pilot and you run back to your helicopter, and while this is all happening, you're hearing in your, like, intercom that, or not intercom, but your earpiece, like, we've found, like, a nuclear device. We need to, like, disarm it, so, like, everybody has to fall back. So, you know, while that's going on, you think, right, okay, let's be the hero, let's get the thing. And you're expecting the bomb to be, like, defused. But then, like, two seconds later, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, I think...
00:17:14
Speaker
It's like, you know when you're at a job, right? And you're clearly doing something terrible and your boss lines you up and it's like, how's it going? And you're like, yeah, I think it's pretty fine. And then something goes catastrophically wrong. Yeah, this is the moment in this game where it just blows up, the nuclear weapon blows up. And about, I think they quote it, it's like 30,000 American troops get utterly obliterated. And it's bad enough, like, obviously you get caught in the blast, but you survive.
00:17:42
Speaker
like the aftermath and you're like crawling through like the nuclear wasteland of this city. It's really haunting. Like what was your reaction when you first saw it? I mean oh yeah like it's something so different and this game like this game was full of those moments it was full of so many moments that just we were like I've never seen this in like a first person a first person shooter
00:18:03
Speaker
maybe I'd seen something not seen in a game before, as you say, like that one, where you crawl out of the wreckage and there's the city's on fire, the mushroom clouds in the back. We're doing spoilers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you die of radiation poisoning at the end. It's like, what the? This is something that never happened, like I know of in a video game, a first person shooter or video game before.
00:18:26
Speaker
I think the thing with this is, so many of these moments became kind of cliche because they kept being used in the Call of Duty games afterwards. But actually at the time, they were really, really striking moments. That gunship mission, the one you talked about, the AC-130, that was something so different as well. And it was this way of, you're playing this kind of dehumanized combat in a way. Because as you're playing along, you can hear all the guys on the TV screens who are miles away, whoever are firing these guns, they're all just like, hot dog.
00:18:55
Speaker
oh there goes another one and stuff to do it in this way but it's like done it's like war at a distance yeah which you know wasn't you know wasn't a feature of these kind of games before and just yeah like the minute where you get shot where you play is first of all where you play as a democratic president is a is a novel invention for an fps game but then also to get shot in the face early on
00:19:14
Speaker
Just it was a game full of these things, like kind of mirroring real world events to an extent as well. So like kind of, obviously it was like a more, you know, it wasn't like a totally realistic version of our world, but there was enough mirrored stuff there to be like, oh God, I recognize this kind of, this world, you know, that these characters inhabit.
00:19:31
Speaker
it is and it does a lot of things really well in that aspect like i'm actually thinking about a particular level that's a favorite of yours and it's something that i have to admit i agreed with you when you were talking about it um
00:19:47
Speaker
You brought it up in when we were talking about our favourite video game levels. I think that was a couple of episodes ago. That of course being all get laid up. I have to admit I don't think I've seen like a stealth mission as, well there obviously have been like stealth mission levels and things in game since but I don't think I've seen one as well done. So I'm gonna let you describe what makes this so good because I know it's a favourite of yours.
00:20:10
Speaker
is near and dear to my heart. Again, it was just something so different. So it's a mission that basically you play as a young Captain Price who's one of the main figures in the Modern Warfare series, and you're part of a two-man SAS team who's sent to infiltrate the town of Pripyat, which is the town that was next to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant that was basically now a ghost town.
00:20:31
Speaker
after that, after the reactor melted down. And so you need to infiltrate this place to assassinate Victor, not Victor, sorry. Imran, that's the one, sorry, Victor's the one. Imran's the guy, I need to assassinate him. Spoiler alert, you failed.
00:20:46
Speaker
yeah and then the mission the whole mission was built around trying to avoid combat which again was such a unique thing for Call of Duty game because none of the others i'm a wreck on my brain but none of the previous titles had anything close to a stealth mission but this one like you could engage in combat but he also gave you a level of choice about how you wanted to approach things you know you're like
00:21:04
Speaker
your team leader would be like, you can take these guys out, or we can try and sneak around them. Your call, there were consequences for if you took out a particular group of guys, but then left another group of guys.
Impact and Innovations of Modern Warfare
00:21:12
Speaker
It was an evolving world. It was just a fantastic setting as well, just this irradiated city. And it was just something so different. And it was just such a change of pace. And it really stood out. And it was something so different, this really small-scale localized event. But the stakes were so high, and the tension was all there. And yeah, they've never, in my opinion, been able to replicate.
00:21:32
Speaker
the mission like that again. I've never played a stealth mission outside of a non-stealth game. There's anywhere close to that kind of amazing design and level of tension, so I just love it. I completely agree. Just one of those missions that hits all the right notes. Even when you go to...
00:21:52
Speaker
basically as you said you have to sneak through and then at the very end you have to like scale up this tower and you have to like properly snipe or attempt to snipe Zakir and unfortunately like obviously you fail but because you're so far away you have to take into account like wind resistance and things like that
00:22:11
Speaker
and you have to calculate your shot, which I thought was really interesting. I don't think I've really done that concept since, really, because I think, because Call of Duty evolved into futuristic shooters, that for some reason now all bullets have, like, wee miniro.
00:22:27
Speaker
kiss attached to them so they just keep going in a straight line except for like you know there's some like examples but you know like overall in like the campaigns and things that's what you were kind of dealing with but for this you know they talk about like the Coriolis effect they talk about you know having to make sure you know they even say like oh watch the flag on the car and that'll tell you where the wind's coming from which I thought was so clever
00:22:52
Speaker
just throughout the game there's just like small moments like that that just honestly it just it makes it such a just such a really like an example of why people love the game so much I'm gonna tone the praise down and I'm gonna ask you if there was one thing you could criticise about the game what would you say
00:23:13
Speaker
It's difficult because I do love this game. I think some of the missions are a bit lackluster. It unfortunately came out at a time where still video game tutorial missions were very much, oh, here's the first level of the game and we're going to teach you everything. So it can be a little bit of a, it can be a little bit of a plot to begin with. I mean, it's quite cool. It ends with a kind of training sequence where you basically are practicing for the next mission. And I think that's quite fun because also it gives you a time element where you try and beat the top time and everything.
00:23:42
Speaker
But the bit before that is a little bit, I mean, it has the great like fruit killing skills line, which is great and will never be better than video game history. But it's a bit of a plod. I guess some of the other missions as well, like there are a couple that just don't feel as like fresh and exciting and feel a bit more kind of standard fare for a Call of Duty game. Also, Mile High Club on veteran is just just shouldn't exist. It's horrible.
00:24:05
Speaker
So dock the game points for that. But these are all kind of minor things. I don't generally have any sort of fake problem with this game. I mean, maybe one thing I'd say is that like it's not really, it's not even the game's fault, but like it did set a lot of things that then became cliches and game overused. Again, that's kind of unfair to blame the game for that because they were really great at the time when they started. Things like your main character, like one of the main characters dying, you know.
00:24:30
Speaker
And sort of moments like the AC-130 gunship mission, like I don't know what your class was as, but like kind of like technology sort of stuff, those bits kind of became very prevalent. But again, I don't know, you can't really hold that against the game for trying something new that then was so good that it became like overused. So yeah, minor points. I have no major problems with this game.
00:24:51
Speaker
I honestly feel like I do agree with all of that, especially the mile high club thing, but a little touching because I see if you're playing this game on like regular then you know it's like you're kind of plodding along for the story which is perfectly fine.
00:25:08
Speaker
But see if you play this game in veteran, prepare to have a hard time. And I mean this, this is probably one of the worst experiences I have ever had trying to play like a game on its hardest difficulty. And I can hear all the, you know, Dark Soul fans going, haha, get good. But no legit.
00:25:25
Speaker
It is one of those games where it almost encourages you to be campy, except when, you know, people start throwing grenades out of nowhere. And then, because this is, this was a problem in, like, Modern Warfare and it's the next game, Wild Out War, where if you were playing this game in veteran and you were sitting for too long, the enemies would just lob grenades at you.
00:25:47
Speaker
You would just be like, well, shit, I've got to run from cover. So you run from cover, and then you just get shot right away. And it was just some of the cheapest shots. You were like, come on. But again, that's like a minor thing. I think as well the kind of, not so much the AI, because I will get to that when we talk about the reboot of this game. I have very strong words.
00:26:07
Speaker
about the AI in that game but some of it's a bit janky but overall like it is definitely worth you know whooping back especially now the remaster is out yeah and i mean speaking of the remaster they've just remastered well last year they remastered the second game of this series and i mean talk about like a i was gonna say step up but i mean where do we even begin with the sequel like as you said the sequel is very much like a michael bay-esque
00:26:35
Speaker
Just bombastic.
Transition to Modern Warfare 2
00:26:38
Speaker
Like if you think the first one, if you played the first one and then, because I think I approached it like in the opposite way, you know like I came in at the sequel and then I played the first one and then it was kind of like okay this is a bit more reserved, like how did you feel about it going from the first one to the second?
00:26:55
Speaker
This game, Modern Warfare 2 for quite a few years was my favourite game of all time for a while after I played it. I absolutely adored it. Looking back now, I still love it, but I think I prefer Call of Duty 4 now. I think that's the peak of the series. I think that's the one that holds up a bit better.
00:27:10
Speaker
than two but for a long time this was my favorite Modern Warfare 2 and I remember I loved four so much I loved the original Modern Warfare so much that I was really really excited when Modern Warfare 2 was coming out and I remember getting it I was at boarding school all the time this came out but I think I got my mum to buy a copy and send it to me and it arrived and I remember staying up the whole night and playing this
00:27:37
Speaker
and trying to dodge teachers and stuff as they came around to check and see everybody was asleep. But I played this all in one day because I was that excited for it. And yeah, it's a very different direction. It's still the modern world. It's not quite contemporary because they were set a couple years ahead of when they came out. I think the original Modern Warfare was supposed to be like 2011. It was like 2007. It was about four years ahead, I think, of when
00:28:02
Speaker
the actual time they were released. But it goes on far, it goes on a much bigger scale. And so everything's wrapped up now, like the whole, the whole basically main point is basically like a third world war basically breaks out. Well, this was not actually a third world war time, but Russia basically declares war on America and invades. And that becomes like, you know, the second half of the story is really focused on that.
00:28:23
Speaker
And everything's just much bigger now. So you're involved in these massive scale battles in Virginia and Washington, DC. But at the same time, you're playing as this Task Force 141, which is a combination of all Western world's elite military forces. So the SAS, the Rangers, CIA, people like that.
00:28:46
Speaker
And they are hunting down this terrorist called Makarov, who is like a disciple of Imran Zakayev and is now basically leading the ultra-nationalist camp. But the ultra-nationalists have taken over control of Russia at this point and basically Makarov manages to instigate an incident, which I'm sure we'll get into more, that leads to Russia declaring war on America. And so basically they came between the defense of America and this group trying to track down Makarov.
00:29:10
Speaker
And other stuff happens as well, but it was just on such a more bombastic scale and the missions reflected that as well. Like there was no, there was no kind of all ghillied up stuff. There were some stealth sections, but there was no like stealth mission like all ghillied up. Instead, you had like, you know, epic, like snowmobile chases and, and like, you know, like massive battles, I say, like retaking the White House and, you know, massive battles through like favelas and Sao Paulo. It just, it was on such a bigger scale than the sort of action had been in the
00:29:40
Speaker
Call of Duty 4. I think if you want like an idea of how different the fourth game is, so like the first modern warfare and this one, watch the trailers. And that might sound weird because you have the like, wait, why? But if you watch the modern warfare trailer, you'll see like a very somber tone getting set, like a very serious one where it pans over, prepare and you see like the abandoned town, you see like the burnt out husks of like
00:30:08
Speaker
The Ferris Wheel. And here, like one of the characters, Captain Price, letting the raid and say, you know, 50,000 people used to live here. Now it's a ghost town. And it flashes through, like, a lot of the scenes in the game. And it sets a serious tone of, we're gonna go in, we're gonna kick ass kind of thing. For Modern Warfare 2, they start with a Eminem rap.
00:30:29
Speaker
and American soldiers rolling through not Middle Eastern stand and just like well it's Afghanistan like they actually go oh is it actually Afghanistan yeah oh wow okay
00:30:44
Speaker
because I wasn't sure because you know as we say it's like the first one they kind of like skirted around it unless they do say like if like I'm getting this wrong guys like feel free to let me know in the comments or send me a message saying Satsu you're wrong
00:30:59
Speaker
kind of guards but I don't know that but as you said it's just it's a lot more bombastic and don't get me wrong it's not the worst thing it's just it's quite intense though after coming from the first game which don't get me wrong the like first game ends where you know you're getting chased by the main guy and then you end up like confronting him on the bridge and you shoot up you know it's like such a great thing as well yeah one of the best endings in the game I'd say ever
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, whereas in this game, the way it ends... Oh, how does it describe this? The way it ends is with a boat chase and then you end up throwing a knife into the eye of someone who betrayed you and it's like, oh, okay. And then it cuts and it's like a cliffhanger, isn't it?
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. Because even back to the end I was really surprised where he ends up getting rescued and you've been stabbed, like your character's been stabbed, and he, like, Captain Price's card is you to this helicopter and the pilot who you saved in the first game is like, duh, I know a place. And then that's it, the game cut. So it's like, wait, what? No. It's like, where's the rest of the game?
00:32:08
Speaker
It's like, but there was no rest of the game. That was it. And I was like, ugh. I would say the ending's a bit like... I wouldn't say it's anti-climatic, because it's definitely not, but just that one scene, like if they had like two more minutes, just anything. Yeah, would you say this was an improvement on the first game?
00:32:27
Speaker
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say it's an improvement. I think it's a continuation because I think it kept a lot of the good things from the first modern warfare.
00:32:41
Speaker
I'm trying to think of any aspect it improved on, like I'm sure there's probably something you didn't improve on, but I think in general terms, I think it's a good continuation, but I think it's maybe a slight step back, ever so slightly, not like a full one, but a slight nudge back, I would say. I would say gameplay wise, it's a step up, but in terms of story,
00:33:03
Speaker
in terms of story it's a bit it's a bit fan fictiony and i can't believe i'm saying that to describe a call of duty game but you know what i mean it's like oh look it's russia invading the whole of america or not the whole of america but like the east coast and it's like oh no
00:33:19
Speaker
It is really ridiculous. I'm not even gonna go into the technicalities of it, like sitting here like an armchair general, but at the same time, I don't know, I feel as if it's unbelievable somehow. Like especially in the day and age that it was meant to be set in, because I know they explain it like saying, oh they stealthed under the radar or something. And it's like, did nobody use their eyes?
00:33:49
Speaker
It loses the realism that Thor had. And again, Thor wasn't completely realistic all the time, but it had a good grounding. Modern Warfare 2 really just ditches that it jettisons it, to go for a far more bombastic tone. Oh, absolutely. And don't get me wrong, I love this game. It is one of my favourites, and I know it's one of yours as well, but it is. In terms of story, it's just so shark jumpy with
00:34:16
Speaker
they say you know it just jumps the sharks so many times and there's nothing wrong with that like I feel as if it's like it's a fun romp but it's definitely not it's not one that you would kind of you know like if you're comparing it to the first one then the first one definitely has the better story in fact I would go as far to say that the first one's probably the best one out this particular trilogy
00:34:40
Speaker
I think the first one has the best campaign of any Call of Duty game. I don't think it's ever been better to get out of any of them. The way I look at Modern Warfare 2 is that it's like watching a really good action film. It's like watching a really good 80s action film with a ridiculous plot and a one-man army going through all the odds and everything.
00:35:01
Speaker
And that is a lot of fun. I really like those kind of action films as well, so I'm pretty supposed to like that kind of idea. But for me anyway, ditching the realism wasn't a detriment. It just moved it in a very, very different direction from what four had been in. And I mean, before we move on to talk about the... I don't want to use shark jumping as an adjective now, but the jumpiest of the sharks.
00:35:31
Speaker
when it comes to this particular series like for the third one. Like I will admit like I'm pointing this out now compared to like super more ranting about like Black Ops 3 and how bad it was in comparison to the others. Like it's not as bad as that but yeah before we move on to that one yeah we've got to talk about No Russian because we can't like skirt over it without talking about it.
00:35:56
Speaker
That was all over the news, wasn't it? Do you remember that? I remember it vividly. Do you remember the controversy around it? Yeah, all over the news about how the youth were getting corrupted because of this violent video game. So to give you guys context, No Russian is basically this mission where you go undercover with Makarov and you basically have to attack in the airport, which I'm going to be honest, and this might be a bit controversial, but
00:36:24
Speaker
Like obviously in the context of it. It's like a horrific thing you're basically to go in and you walk in with a basically an LMG and you start gunning down like civilians and like just just everyone in front of you and the idea is you're supposed to stage a terror attack and then that's the kind of catalyst for the game where you're
00:36:47
Speaker
you eventually at the end get found out as being an American agent so Makarov kills you and then the police find you and then that sparks an incident of oh America attacked us let's invade them which yeah again again but you know over the top but
00:37:04
Speaker
like at the time this was really really everybody was talking about this one scene so much so that you can actually skip it if you feel uncomfortable doing that which i can completely understand it is quite a brutal and intense moment in the game like and you can also one of the things i thought was quite interesting is
00:37:22
Speaker
you can actually play this level and you don't have to like you don't have to shoot anybody yeah like it doesn't penalize you for not taking part in the massacre like the other your teammates quote-unquote will do all the killing then you can stay back
00:37:37
Speaker
One of the things I will be very critical in this game on is, or this particular level, is the fact that Call of Duty decided that this was going to be like a staple of their franchise to have one controversial moment per game. Because don't get me wrong, like there have been worse games like than this level. There have definitely been more bloody, gory, horrible, you know,
00:38:02
Speaker
horrible gribbly stuff but at the same time this was like the first call because I think for modern warfare it was the nook going off there was a controversial one then for this one it was the airport massacre for the third one it was exploding children with chemical weapons
00:38:19
Speaker
and yeah it's just it almost felt as if it was like they were trying to one up which obviously that's what you do in the series you're always like up the stakes but yeah well we go into modern warfare 3 yeah like i mean can i say a little bit about no russian just oh absolutely no i'm sorry and no no it's right just because i think it's such an interesting thing because i said like i remember vividly like the debate this was this was on like over here in britain there's a show called news night
00:38:45
Speaker
which is a very prestigious evening news type show. I'm sure there was a discussion about this level on there. This was 2009. I don't think I ever remember a video game appearing on News Night before. They may have appeared after now.
00:39:04
Speaker
with the industry getting so big. But that was a thing in itself. And I remember morning talk shows talking about it as well and everything in this country. It really was a giant phenomenon. It's funny because my reaction to it has changed every time. I remember when I first played it. I remember being like, oh, everybody is just making such a big deal of this. And it's been blown out of proportion. I'm like, yo, it's just a video game in the day. Who cares? That was my opinion for a long time. I did think it was people just getting very oversensitive about it.
00:39:34
Speaker
But I played it I replayed modern warfare 2 Last year and I was going through and I remember playing it again and it was actually one point I remember playing I was like God, this is actually really shocking. I don't know what it was about like like me now playing it wasn't
00:39:50
Speaker
God, I can actually totally see why people's reaction to this. And I'm like, this is actually really an uncomfortable level to play. And I don't know why maybe it was the first time I'd properly actually tried to look at it, maybe objectively and a bit critically. Well, before, I'd just been like, I really loved the game. So I was like, oh, it's a good level. And it sets things up. And it's a good shock. And I'm like, God, this is actually quite an uncomfortable level to play. And so it's just funny just how my opinion on it has changed.
00:40:18
Speaker
changed over time. I agree with you. It's a real shame that it became like this. They felt like they had to keep adding something shocking in to each game. You know, it's like a main character getting killed off. You're just waiting for it to happen at that point, aren't you? Like, you know. I'm just thinking just what you were saying about like changing your opinion on the game. I feel as if, is it not just a case of like us kind of like, I don't want to be like, you know, pretentious here and being like, oh, it's just us growing up.
00:40:48
Speaker
I guess it kind of is because when we played to begin with, I mean we would only be like in our late teens. I was 17. Yeah 17, yeah same. So it would have been like we saw it in the perspective of oh it's just a video game. But when you actually look into it, you know you can see like people
00:41:10
Speaker
you know like they really put effort into making this shock and you can see like the slow... see that that's one of the things that's quite chilling it's like the scene where you come out the elevator and you see like a couple of people looking around kind of and not in slow motion but it feels as if it's slow motion you know they're chatting away they're going about their daily lives they turn around and four NPCs are just standing there with MMGs and you're like
00:41:34
Speaker
oh this is this is gonna be a bad day isn't it and yeah it's just like you go ahead and these poor people just you know it's like it's not something traditionally call of duty you know it's like i don't really remember any game before this where you could kill anybody that wasn't part of the game
00:41:52
Speaker
If you know what I mean, like anyone that wasn't a combatant, like everybody you shoot at in up until this game usually like had a gun to shoot back or you know you were fighting them or something. Whereas this is like, I think this is the first scene or the first like moment in the franchise and I could be wrong again, tell me.
00:42:11
Speaker
But yeah, it's the first time when it's like this, you know, these poor people, like, can't fight back. Like, it's all scripted as well. So you know it's gonna, it's like a horrible ground all day. Like, it's always gonna happen.
00:42:23
Speaker
and yeah I guess it is like now we're kind of growing up like looking back on that it is shocking it is definitely like a really harrowing scene but as I was saying there it's like it's just a shame that they looked more at the shock and the controversy rather than taking you know what like what that scene could accomplish you know it's like the explosion with the nook it's like they didn't like throw another nook in the second game to like did they no they didn't
00:42:52
Speaker
are just like the poles. There is a nuclear explosion. Oh there is, yeah. That was one of the weirdest scenes where it's like you get, sorry, just to explain guys, it's like when you are in the perspective of like an astronaut that gets blown away and it's like it's all of like five seconds or not five seconds but it's not a long time at all and you're just like, but why though? Why would you put this in the game? And it's clearly just to put in the trailer with the M&M soundtrack and it's like, oh my god.
00:43:21
Speaker
And of course, before we move on, we've got to just quickly mention our boy Ghost. Big F for Ghost. Which I have to admit, Ghost, for any of you guys who don't know, Ghost is just this guy with a balaclava that's got a skull print on it. But I remember, do you remember when he gets shot? He basically gets
00:43:43
Speaker
you get betrayed in the game and they get shot in the head and because people love the design of the character so much everyone was saying things like oh maybe he survived maybe the bullet just grazed the back of his head it's like ghost yeah it's like no he got shot in the head and burned alive I don't think he's gonna survive because he said the same thing about Gaz in the first game as well yeah yeah that was like nah they're not coming back
00:44:08
Speaker
Sadly, but yeah. Which I suppose makes it a bit harrowing. I mean there's a lot of characters to pour some out for in there. There really is. I mean, that is, I have to admit, that's one of the strengths of this trilogy. It's got so many characters that you really feel attached to. Even ones that, you know, don't have as much impact. They'll tag along with you and they'll say a couple one-liners, but when they die you're kind of just like, oh man,
00:44:37
Speaker
I actually really sad about that. I don't know about the third one though. I'm going to be honest. Will we move on to the third one? Yeah, move on to the third one. Yeah, because the third one just... I don't even know what analogy I can use here. It just goes balls to the wall crazy. And it's like, you know how we were saying a couple of minutes ago that it was crazy that Russia could invade America?
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah, imagine invading, like, America, coming back home saying, okay, that didn't work, what are we gonna do now? Okay, we're gonna invade Europe, and it's like, which bit? Yes. Yes, the whole of Europe, and it's like, wait, what, what? In one go. Yeah, just in one go. It's like, they do, do you know what I think it is? I think it's the developer got the scripts mixed up for Call of Duty and the
Modern Warfare 3's Global Expansion
00:45:23
Speaker
game Risk.
00:45:23
Speaker
I feel as if somehow they both got mashed together and he was like you know what we're just gonna run with it and again like it focuses like the beginning of the game kind of focuses on a I think it's the Rangers again although I could be wrong yeah and yes like there's a particular task I think it's Delta force or Delta oh it's the old squad
00:45:48
Speaker
yeah and they are like you know here you're task force 141 of this game and they are basically you begin by repelling the russians and then it kind of it flips all over the world again so it's like you go to paris you go to germany you go to you starve in america of course and you even go into london which i'm loving that the set pieces in this game are really well done
00:46:13
Speaker
I think that's one of its strengths. It's weaknesses, however, is the story, I would say. The story is by far very, very weak. It's crazy. This game, you're right, is crazy in terms of its story, but it's also dull.
00:46:29
Speaker
Modern Warfare 2 is crazy, but at least it was fun. The story actually felt fun, and it was exciting, and lots of it didn't make sense, but you're always like, oh my god, more things are happening. People are betraying you for very little reason, and nukes are going off in space and everything. It was a sense of fun, but that kind of idea of exhilaration. Modern Warfare 3's campaign just doesn't have that.
00:46:54
Speaker
And I think in terms of level design and actual levels, 3 is maybe the best overall. I don't think there's any out and out bad levels in this one. I think all the levels are actually pretty good with some good set pieces, but the story is just dull. And I think a big problem was backstage.
00:47:13
Speaker
the development of this game before this game came out. So Infinity Ward were the company who developed the Modern Warfare games and were actually the original developers of Call of Duty back from the very start. After Modern Warfare 2, the two founders and two heads of Infinity Ward got into legal problems with Activision, who were the publishers of Call of Duty, which ended up, so the two heads of Infinity Ward ended up leaving the company, taking a lot of people with them. So Infinity Ward kind of, like, won a lot of turmoil.
00:47:40
Speaker
trying to make this game so Activision had to bring in other studios including sledgehammer games who then went on to make a couple of college games themselves before they fell into turmoil recently but so like this game does feel a little bit like it was patched together because you had different people working on different things and it was like oh god we just need to find you know
00:48:00
Speaker
Let's just have a crazy story, but very by the numbers. And it doesn't really have a unique IP. So Call of Duty 4's campaign had that realistic setting and a grittiness to it. While 2 was a Michael Bay, balls to the wall, crazy Hollywood action story. 3 just, I don't know. It's just dull. It's a real shame. I think one of the main examples of that, and maybe this is just me getting old and my eyesight's not what it used to be.
00:48:30
Speaker
I say that as I'm in the late 20s, I'm like, yes, back in my day. Genuinely, I remember playing this on stream. When I first started streaming, I played this. I played through all of them, so I played through Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2, and then I played the third one. I had a really difficult time telling who was who, in terms of enemies. Everyone's just so dull. Don't get me wrong, obviously, it's a war.
00:48:58
Speaker
You gotta have a uniform of some kind. But like, I don't know. I remember in the very first level when you're trying to shoot the Russian soldiers that are coming at you and I ended up by accident shooting my own guys and it's like, no friendly fire here. And it's like, how am I supposed to do it? Honestly, they were so similar in the heat of the moment where you're just like,
00:49:19
Speaker
This is, like, I don't know, maybe if I replay it, like, my opinion will change, but I just remember playing that and thinking, everything's so dull, like, as I was saying, the level design's great, but that's about it. In a moment, it is nice to see, like, London getting a shot, you know, like, just a spotlight for one shot. Yeah, like, rather than just being, you know, like, America or, you know, like, just the regular
00:49:47
Speaker
places for this franchise but I think as well like on top of what you were saying there like I think especially the kind of background disputes was something that definitely was one of the key points for this game kind of not failing and I don't consider this game a failure but I feel as if there was a lot of call of duty fatigue it didn't excel yeah because if you think about it in 2007 Modern Warfare came out and that was a massive massive hit
00:50:15
Speaker
Then you had World at War, which came out in 2008. And you know, again, everybody loved it. Modern Warfare 2, next year, everyone loved it. Black Ops was the year after, it absolutely killed. But then by the time Modern Warfare 3 rolled around, everyone was just getting tired of Call of Duty, like it was that. It was like the FIFA of the FPS franchise, it was just, it was the same thing. It was, you know, like, no one really cared. And, you know, by the time Black Ops 2 came around the next year, everyone was like,
00:50:45
Speaker
I guess it's all right but you know it's like no one was really I honestly like I remember people not being impressed whatsoever they were all saying oh it's just a reskin of modern warfare 2 which I think to a degree it was. The graphics were almost identical.
00:51:02
Speaker
There's no real upgrade at all. I remember there was a review for the multiplayer and everybody was saying that. This is just Modern Warfare 2. A lot of the HUDs and stuff they use, it's very samey. Going back to what I was saying earlier about the controversy,
00:51:22
Speaker
It's just stupid, this one. I'm gonna admit, it's not one of the better ones, where essentially the reason, or not the reason, but the way that Russia decides to invade Europe is because they've got caches of...
00:51:40
Speaker
What even is it? It's like the earth gas or something. Just the gas. TM, the gas. And they explode it in different capital cities. Which I'm kind of like, they do realise that there's other places in Europe. Europe is a pretty big place.
00:51:58
Speaker
Yeah, they, like, they blow up at all the capitals. I know, I get it, because that's where all the most, you know, important things, like, you know, the parliaments and... But they don't even blow up near, like, Government Belt. Or they don't even say that. They just, like, blow up in a random street. Because the way you find out is in the London level, which I do think is really cool. That's one of my highlights of the game.
00:52:19
Speaker
where you go through the London Underground to try and stop this chemical weapon from being set off. That's a cool level. But then you have the old shit moment when you realise, oh no, it's not at the back of this truck. But then it cuts to this really weird scene of this father, you know, filming his daughter playing in the streets and it's like, oh, spiffing day to day, isn't it, my dear? Oh, don't run too fast. And you see in the background this guy in the overalls, like, running out this van and you're like, oh no.
00:52:47
Speaker
Oh no. And then, yeah, the van goes up, you know, and then it cuts to the next scene. Like, what did you think? Like, were you more shocked or were you just like... Oh no, that was just... By that point I was like, I know why this isn't here. It's like, oh, we'll have our quote unquote shocking moment.
00:53:02
Speaker
And this one felt like such a throwaway thing. It didn't have the impact of the nuke, because that was something so fresh, and you're like, oh my god, in the way it's presented. It didn't have the shock value of no Russian. It's just like, my god, what am I being asked to participate in here? This is literally like, oh yeah, walk forward a couple paces, and then something shocking happened. Be shocked. Press forward to be shocked. And yeah, there's nothing to it.
00:53:30
Speaker
It was just, it was lazy. To be honest, it was lazy. Sorry, when you said push forward to be shocked, I was like, oh, so just like Heavy Rain then. Exactly. It's still Heavy Rain game design. I did it worse. Yeah, mate. David Cage was writing down, going, exploding children. Okay, I'll work that into a story somehow.
00:53:50
Speaker
get that side. Do you know what I just realised? In 2010, that's when Black Ops came out, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So this game came out in 2011 and they literally used like a chemical weapon subplot and that, didn't they? That's a good point. Not for children, don't get me wrong. It was like, I feel as if they did that more shocking in Black Ops because they actually show you the effects of it and with characters that you know you're used to.
00:54:17
Speaker
I'm gonna put my cards then on the table. Black Ops 1 is one of my favourites of the whole Call of Duty series, and what they do in that game for some of the scenes is just incredible. But to go from that to be like, oh, hello, symbol of innocence, walk forward. Oh look, a van. I hope nothing bad comes out of that. Look, it's been martyred. Martyred for Call of Duty's story. My god. Is it worth it? Probably not.
00:54:44
Speaker
probably not and yeah it's it's just like a shocking moment but at the same time as you said you kind of see it a mile off and you're like but then again you do get another shocking moment where the technically the protagonist of this series or one of the protagonists gets killed off because you get betrayed that of course being soap mctavish um who you know is a fellow scott so props to him
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah it's just a shame how he goes out because he just gets like shot and then the game kind of just like meanders after that doesn't it. Yeah it does a bit like I mean he's got a couple more missions after that but yeah. Because I mean there's a dramatic sacrifice of Delta Force and they're like we'll hold them back and I'm just like okay.
00:55:31
Speaker
I just had no attachment to them whatsoever, which is weird because I had attachment to like ghosts, gaz, you know. Oh, he was the other guy. I can't remember the other one then. The other American guy. Oh, Griggs. Griggs, that's the one. Thank you.
00:55:46
Speaker
people with personality like these are people who you spent the whole game with but who had personality and had good banter you know and like maybe as well like with four other stories more rooted in our realism so these feel like more of maybe realistic characters well with like the Delta Force guys in the last one like
00:56:02
Speaker
in three, like they're just kind of, they feel like stock characters. They feel like stock military, like, you know, American soldiers, like, you know, it's not really that much more to them. And even like, so you, so you play as a character of the Delta, of Delta force, but like that character, when they make the heroic sacrifice, that character is not there. So your player character just disappears. And there's no reason for why they care. They're not there for that, for that like penultimate mission. But it's just like, so I don't know. It's just like, Oh, you know, all these stock characters are sacrificing themselves.
00:56:32
Speaker
That feels like their natural endpoint, you know? I don't really feel like I'm like... It's not like where Gaz is like shot in the head by Zakayev at the end, like, you know, and he's like bleeding out and stuff, and you're like, oh god, I'm like, holy shit, you know? But these guys are just like, oh yeah, this is, this is, of course, this is going to be their endpoint. What other endpoint do they have?
00:56:50
Speaker
I mean, it's true, but it's like, do you know what I think makes it less dramatic? I'm kind of thinking about, like, the ones we've been talking about. It's like Griggs and Gaz, they get shot in the face. You know, see while you're lying, they are helpless, like, on the verge without a weapon. You're outgunned, you're outmanned, you know?
00:57:07
Speaker
You are literally, you are just about to get like picked off easy. With Modern Warfare 2, the exact same thing happens. You get shot by Shepard, you know, and you're just lying bleeding out. You're already injured, but you're lying bleeding out as you watch, you know, ghosts get shot in the head. And even, okay, I'll extend it to even when you're watching soap, try to get, you know, like Price tries to resurrect, or not resurrect, but you know, he tries to save him. And which can, yeah.
00:57:35
Speaker
Yeah, he just, he can. You know, it's like you feel helpless as well because you're watching and you're expecting the prompts like the F to pay respects, like F to triage, you know, it's like you can't, you can't do anything and that is, that's what makes it so emotional because you are at the forefront
00:57:51
Speaker
of that with Delta Force, you're just like watching from a distance and then they get killed behind a smokescreen. Well you don't even see them and don't get me wrong I'm not like some weirdo being like you have to see the bodies but you know it's like there's just no as you said it's generic characters getting killed off screen there's no I mean don't get me wrong if there's any like fans out there of Delta Force please let me know because I would be.
00:58:14
Speaker
I'd be very interested. Find something else to be a fan of. Find something better. Find some better characters to be a fan of, first of all. Like Final Fantasy. Yeah, exactly. Anybody else in the Call of Duty series? Yeah. Oh, anybody. Literally. I'll tell you, here's a question for you. Do you think Nel to Force have the worst death, worst deaths, worst quote unquote heroic deaths out of any of the characters in a Call of Duty game?
00:58:38
Speaker
Probably. I mean technically Yuri gets like he does not get like a great death. I mean he gets shot by Makarov so maybe. The one I can think of, do you remember like in like the final mission of Infinite Warfare?
00:58:54
Speaker
like one bit with one of your crew members like you're opening a door and i like and when your crew member all of a sudden jumps in front the door and pushes you out of the way so they can get a shot that one made me laugh so much because i was like that's such a needless death like i'm pretty sure my character would have been fine yeah just like leaps in front of the door that's the only other one i could think of being like a worse one like a more hysterical one
00:59:15
Speaker
Like, in terms of overall, what would you say? Oh yeah, sorry. I think you're the worst in the Modern Warfare series by far. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. By far. I'm just trying to think who else there is. Because, I mean, maybe retinol, but technically. There's a whole bag of worms behind that death. Probably everybody in Black Ops 3, maybe.
00:59:39
Speaker
Yeah, I can't remember a lot of their deaths, I have to admit, so that's probably very telling. I mean, there's one person who gets killed by Nova-6 and you're supposed to feel bad, but you're kind of like, was there literally no other way to resolve this? Can we not brainstorm? Nope, you're in, you're in, okay.
00:59:59
Speaker
in fact well no remember advance warfare yeah there was a lot of like cheap deaths and that just another one see i struggled to remember yeah same sorry i remember the final death oh yeah it's like it's very much like chop off your arm movie one yeah
01:00:16
Speaker
Apparently there was like an alternate ending, which I know will probably cover that in another Chatsunami, but yeah there was like an alternate ending where I think he survived maybe, but thank god because, yeah. That would have been awkward if they'd sent me more of those games, wouldn't it? I think I saw a comment the other day on, it was either Facebook or something and they were like, man I wish, you know, I wish they made it in fans warfare 2 and it was like, really?
01:00:40
Speaker
If I think it was like an IGN article or GameSpot or one of these people who were like, oh yeah, I think that this game needs a sequel and it's like, no it doesn't. Just crawl back into your office and think of a better headline. It's like, get away with this clickbait nonsense. It's like, this is why Delta Force are the best characters. It's like, right. I'm trying to rile me up now. Now you're just...
01:01:05
Speaker
Speaking of Riled Up, though, in fact, before we go on to the final game that we're going to talk about, quite a question, what would you say is the best game out of this original trilogy?
The Legacy of the Original Modern Warfare
01:01:15
Speaker
Oh, hands down for me, like the original one. I think the original one is still one of the best first person shooter games ever made. And just the way it like, I remember all the way back when we were talking about the Black Ops series, I talked about the original Black Ops as not being quite a revolutionary game, but a very important like game.
01:01:32
Speaker
but like I think Call of Duty 4 is revolutionary. If you look at like the way the first person shooter landscape changed after this game in terms of bringing first of all just bringing it in bringing more of these games into a modern setting like so many games jumped jumped on that bandwagon afterwards but also like giving stories a more realistic edge you know and going for moments where you like like the AC-130 gunship mission or like old Gilly Dot but going for those kind of standout levels with its multiplayer as well I know we're not talking much about the multiplayer but
01:02:02
Speaker
Call of Duty 4 brought in a lot of things like experience points and killstreaks perks, you know, progression things that became staples of the Call of Duty multiplayer series and a lot of other multiplayer games. So I honestly think it was like a revolutionary game. And it's what made, it's one of the games that made Call of Duty such a giant franchise. Like it already was a popular franchise before, but this one sold over 17 million copies in its lifetime. And it propelled this game to new heights.
01:02:30
Speaker
So for me, it's this one. I think it's still the best Call of Duty game. And I don't think they'll ever be able to top it, to be honest. I think that although I have a soft spot for Modern Warfare 2, I do enjoy it because that was kind of my first entry into the series. But in terms of the Modern Warfare series, this was my first exposure to it. And I love it.
01:02:51
Speaker
but going back to Modern Warfare, although I would maintain that some of the things are a bit janky, not everything. I do think it does really well in other aspects, as you said, especially the story, but just the fact that how mature it could be and how it could actually tell people that, yes, this is at the end of the day, it's a FPS game that is still a game at the end of the day, but it can also take a mature stance on a lot of things. It can show developers and just the general
01:03:20
Speaker
population of gamers, this is a game that can take itself seriously and can tell a gripping story without having to... I mean, there are some gimmicks, but at the end of the day, it did it at the time really well. And then the next game was just like, well, let's get Russia invaded in the White House. And it's like, oh, okay, okay.
01:03:41
Speaker
or jumping on that bandwagon, okay. But no, I think, as you said, it was definitely a trendsetter of its time, I do agree, as by far one of the best, like, it's like one of the best beginnings, I would say, for just the landscape, really, of like, just general FPSs, because I know obviously themed based ones like Halo, you know, that's obviously not going to go to the modern setting, but
01:04:05
Speaker
It was a good game for this time, and I do agree that it was a positive step forward. But yeah, it's just a shame it kind of regressed. Even though the gameplay, like I will admit the gameplay kind of is just, you know, like very similar throughout the series. But yeah, I feel as if it is, it's a strong start. And is this not the first game? Is it going to be really petty? But is this not the first game you can sprint in and call it duty? Or...
01:04:28
Speaker
The first, it's the first main title you can sprint. You could in the, there was an expansion pack to the original Call of Duty that added like a brief sprint function, but it was pretty useless to be honest. Like this is the first thing that kind of made a well integrated sprint function. But there you go. You have it here first. This is the chat tsunami exclusive, even though the game came out in 2007.
01:04:50
Speaker
first sprint game and can I also say I'm just gonna quickly before we go into our final game that we're gonna talk about can I just say Myohai Club whatever like I doubt anybody from you know the original team is listening to this but if you are if by some cosmic coincidence you do listen to this you are a sadist
01:05:09
Speaker
You are like the designer for this level, you're an absolute sadist and like how do you sleep at night knowing that you created such a hellish level? You want another reason why I hate it? Because I did indeed complete this level on veteran once, once and that was a uni after like hundreds and hundreds of attempts because like I was a bit of a perfectionist where I'm like oh maybe I could get all the um you know achievements yeah like that was the only one I had left
01:05:39
Speaker
Man, it was hellish. It was horrible. My life obviously. Have you ever done... Have you ever done that? No, I'm ashamed to say my great shame is that I've never completed it on veteran. Despite numerous attempts, I just had to give up. It was... Either the game was going to break or I was going to break and I'm ashamed to say I broke first.
01:05:58
Speaker
I couldn't I couldn't defeat I got I got so close I got so close one time and then an enemy got in my way he didn't even kill me he didn't even have the he didn't even have like the good-heartedness to kill me he just stood in my way so I couldn't get past him to the time I ran out that was a point where I was like you know what F this
01:06:17
Speaker
before I throw my 360 out the window. Do you know what the worst part of it is? So you once you get to the very end of that level you have to shoot the guy. So like just explain to people like because I don't think we've actually described what this level is. Good point actually. So basically at the very end of Modern Warfare you end up it's just like a bonus level really isn't it? That you have to storm this plane that has been taken over by just generic terrorists I think.
01:06:47
Speaker
and you have to like you know you have to work your way through the different corridors you have to like work your way up and then at the very end you have to like kill this guy who's holding a hostage and then you basically jump out the plane and that's it you know happy days but as i said before the veteran mode in this is hellish is so so difficult and you have to like you have to weave in and out you have to throw flashbangs to stop them from shooting you
01:07:13
Speaker
and things you have to be very precise because if you mess up one action that's it you know you've pretty much failed which i did a couple of times and yeah a lot of screaming that night a lot of like oh and then just you're lying on the ground thinking what was it all for is it is such a difficult what are we here yeah just to suffer
01:07:34
Speaker
And as I said, I've done it once and, you know, never again. If anybody wants proof of it, feel free to like message me, feel free to let me know. I will happily take a picture of that achievement and send it to your DMs. You know what? See if I ever like make a dating profile. I think I'm just gonna put that as my profile picture just like...
01:07:53
Speaker
It's like, here they are, I got this achievement. It's like, what the hell's that? And I just cry. Yeah, just swipe right, or is it like, I don't know. I don't know, that's what you use. Swipe some direction. Swipe some, swipe up, why not. Or down, I don't know. Anyway, I'm getting far off track. But yeah, hellish level. So yeah, speaking of hellish levels, ha ha ha.
01:08:13
Speaker
Yeah, we have one more game that we have yet to cover. That of course being the 2019... Would we say soft reboot? It's a soft reboot. Soft reboot, yeah. Of the, just the entire Modern Warfare franchise.
The 2019 Modern Warfare Reboot
01:08:28
Speaker
Which I'm a bit salty nowadays about it. Because it's getting overshadowed by, for obvious reasons, it's getting overshadowed by the new Cold War game. But it's also getting overshadowed by Warzone as well.
01:08:42
Speaker
Which I think is, that's a whole rant in itself. Like I feel as if Modern Warfare, the new one, is like a hell of a lot better than some of the new- that's my hot take on the night. Or lukewarm take, as we say. The only reason I think I got it was because, like I never got it in release. So sorry, like backtracking a little bit. Between 2011 was the last Call of Duty Modern Warfare game, wasn't it?
01:09:06
Speaker
And then we didn't get another Modern Warfare game until 2019. And that is a long wait. Do you want to describe what this one's about? Right, let's see if I can do a better job. So this game is an attempt, I'm maybe going to give it better motives than I actually had, but an attempt to examine real world issues
01:09:36
Speaker
in the context of a Call of Duty game. So again, it's got a contemporary and this one is actually set so the game was released 2019 and the game actually takes place in 2019. And it deals with things like terrorist attacks. There's a group that is basically might as well be ISIS, to be honest.
01:10:00
Speaker
it kind of looks at like it kind of I say borrows from like I'm like saying like it borrows from but like takes examples from this the civil war in Syria but also like examples from the Soviet Afghan war of the 80s so it's an attempt to look at kind of historical and real world events and to create out a mature quote unquote realistic experience
01:10:22
Speaker
around those events. Yeah, I don't know if that was a good description, but... No, no, absolutely. Better than what I could have described it, because it's one of those games that, I mean, it looks beautiful, don't get me wrong, like, the graphics in this are... and usually, like, I don't mind about the graphics, like, it's not, you know, it doesn't make a game perfect, but, I mean, this game looks beautiful.
01:10:42
Speaker
like I remember the first time playing this being like oh my god because I think the first time I played it was this was before the you know the lockdown times you came over to my place and you brought over the copy and you're just like oh let's play through it and I played the first mission then I was just like oh my god this is this is gorgeous looking you know like you honestly felt as if you were there whereas kind of when you play it you get desensitized to it and you're like okay here's
01:11:10
Speaker
here's another Call of Duty game but honestly it looks great it does look good and it's got a lot of really interesting mission types and things but i don't know if it still suffers from trying to be too controversial which as you said like maybe this is a bit of a hard-hitting topic but like it does as you said it borrows from a lot of real life events like do you want to do while we talk about like the controversies of this game
01:11:35
Speaker
I think we I think they're really important to the top. Yeah, absolutely. So you've got a basically this game was not well received in Russia. The reason being, because again, the main enemies in the game are the Russians. Yeah, surprise, surprise. The psychology to game, you know, this isn't home front, you know.
01:11:55
Speaker
This is Call of Duty. For this game, basically they invade another generic country, don't they? They give it a fake name and everything. It's clear where, as you said, it's kind of loosely based on the Syrian conflict, because you see the white helmets and things rummaging through the rubble and things, and you can definitely tell there's a lot of influence from that.
01:12:22
Speaker
but there's a particular scene where they obviously they're painting the Russians as the bad guys because they're like oh these guys are you know terrible and there's one scene where you are on what's called the highway of death and basically they say oh it was the Russians who bombed a convoy of like civilians trying to flee the war zone now in real life it wasn't the Russians it was the was it the Americans
01:12:48
Speaker
It was the Americans during the Gulf War, during the first Gulf War in the 90s, who bombed. As the Iraqi army was fleeing Kuwait, a lot of civilian vehicles, the American Air Force bombed from the crap out of them to use the technical term. And obviously the Russians were pretty much a little bit peeved about being blamed for a war crime that they indeed didn't commit.
01:13:12
Speaker
Yeah and I mean between that and the whole like again they return to the chemical weapon thing which I know is like a really kind of blazzy like way to describe it to be like oh the chemical weapon but yeah they just kind of return to that don't they as a plot device because let's face it it is a plot device in this game. It is.
01:13:32
Speaker
and they do like try to, you know, they try to shock you at the beginning by having a suicide bomber in the middle of like Piccadilly where you know of course they place like a woman and her child beside them, they place you know the elderly man in the background and things.
01:13:48
Speaker
You know, they might as well have thrown a puppy in, just for good measure. That was the quote-unquote shocking scene, I think, that there were, well, the second, I think unintentionally the highway of death became like the most controversial, but I mean before that, that was probably the most controversial scene.
01:14:06
Speaker
There's also the bit where you play as a child. That level is very controversial, especially on part of it. What is that where you have to crawl through a sea of dead children bodies? Well, there's that as well. But there's also the quote unquote boss fight in that one, where the stereotypical Russian soldier comes into your house and kills your father. And then you have to like, you're playing as a kind of, you're playing as like an eight year old child, maybe younger than that.
01:14:33
Speaker
and you have to crawl around and find scissors and knives and everything to stab him with. And it's a very... I think the biggest problem with this game is that I don't think there's... This is just my opinion, but I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with trying to explore more mature themes and look at
01:14:53
Speaker
world events you know that are like nasty and you know like yeah are you know horrible to look at I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring those the problem with this game is it very much I don't even know if this is a word but it gamifies those experiences so like it especially for me I for me the worst thing is is that like
01:15:13
Speaker
when you play at that level where you play as the child like because like it takes an experience that is like you can only imagine how like traumatizing and like soul destroying and shocking that is for a young child and it gamifies it by making like you put you into a boss fight where like you have all these like you know it's like video game mechanics of all hide and like you know creep up behind them and stab them and everything and just yeah
01:15:38
Speaker
and crawl through the convenient hole between the hole. Yeah, it's all that. It just gamifies these experiences so much that you're taking them out of their real world context and you're not exploring them. They're set pieces, they're background, they're set dressing at the end of the day for your game. And that is a problem, I think. That is a real problem with this game.
01:16:02
Speaker
I mean, especially later on in that scene, because this is something I was kind of telling you as well, that my immersion was severely broken throughout this game. Partly because of the bad AI, but we'll get onto that because I do have a genuine gripe with it. But I mean, even after that scene when you manage to kill the Russian soldier who, I am convinced, I could be wrong, but I am sure he is one of the operators that you can play as online. And it's like, oh great.
01:16:32
Speaker
Oh great, I can play as a guy who, you know, killed some guys, you know, like children's fathers in front of them. You know, it's like, oh great, I can play as that guy. It's like, who in their right mind is saying, oh yeah, he's my favourite character? It's like, no. What? We identify with his motivations.
01:16:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's all a little bit too generic, which I know, it's a college-y to game and everything. I'm not expecting, again, Citizen Kane, that's the one I usually go for. I'm not expecting Shakespeare, but at the same time, it's like, if you're gonna go at these very serious topics, which, especially at the time, in fact, even nowadays, it is a very, very important, or rather, it's very important
01:17:18
Speaker
that you handle these like topics with such great care because if you mess it up then you know well you're gonna get two guys from Scotland ranting about it but I think one of the things that annoyed me as well was see when you crawl through so basically what happens is
01:17:35
Speaker
you run into the house and the Russians lay off this gas to basically kill everyone around. So you get a gas mask, you crawl through the streets, and there's a scene where you basically crawl in and you see the dead body of a child, which is, indeed, unpleasant, of course. It is horrible and everything, but I remember looking down at the model for this child, and his leg was literally clipping through one of the tables and things, and it's like, just why?
01:18:04
Speaker
I don't know it feels as if it was just like trying to shock for the sake of shocking and the villains are just don't get me wrong I'm not saying like oh this would never happen in real life because maybe you know like obviously I don't know first hand but
01:18:18
Speaker
Like one of the scenes I do remember is the butcher scene which other than this scene is a very good level but it's the one where you go to the embassy. Do you remember the scene? And basically the game punishes you if you try to save this child which I get what they're trying to go for you know it's the whole you have to you know try and think rationally instead of emotionally and all of that but
01:18:41
Speaker
But at the same time, the body count of children in this game is just really uncomfortably high. Which, I know we're having a laugh here with being like, ah, silly, you know. But, genuinely, it's almost as if they go out of the way to be like, oh, look how evil these guys are. And, don't get me wrong, the game has Savavillan and everything, but does it...
01:19:04
Speaker
I mean, what do you think? Do you think they went too far in this one? Because I know there is one level that technically does a good job, but it did annoy me a little bit, called Clean House. Oh yeah. Which is a fantastic level. It's basically you play as an SAS. It's SAS, isn't it? Yeah, and you have to go through this house that are full of these insurgents, and you have to
01:19:28
Speaker
choose who to pick off. There's civilians in there as well, non-combatants, you have to be very careful. And I thought that was great, it was praised at the time. One of the scenes I really don't like and I felt uncomfortable with, and I know that's the point, but there's a scene where you go in and there's this woman who runs to a court and I have
01:19:48
Speaker
After that, everyone was like, oh, I was about to shoot her. I never once thought to shoot this woman because she goes into the car and it's supposed to be that she's reaching for a gun, but it turns out she's reaching for a baby. Now, if you're sick enough and you decide to shoot, and this isn't me speaking from experience, like this is all with the news articles accumulated.
01:20:09
Speaker
If you look at that and you actually shoot the child, then the game actually scolds you for it. And if you do it too many times, then it kicks you out of the game. Apparently it physically shoots you. Which is not something I want to test. You know that though, but it's like, I just...
01:20:26
Speaker
look up a YouTube video or something like I'm not going into this game for the sole purpose of like doing that but I don't know do you feel as if this a fact I've got two questions for you do you think this is the most controversial out the modern warfare series and do you think it went too far because I know it's a bit of a loaded question after all
01:20:47
Speaker
It's interesting to see is this the most... I think as an overall game, I think this was the most controversial. I don't know if it reached the levels of No Russian. Maybe it's just because I was so close to the No Russian controversy at the time. I can remember that vividly. I think as a game, this is definitely the most controversial one. Because at least No Russian was a moment.
01:21:09
Speaker
you know, it's one level, like this game has kind of seeped in quite a few controversial moments, as we've talked about. What they were trying to do, clearly what they were trying to do with this game is they were trying to like tell a morally gray story, you know, with complicated characters. And you know, like, it's supposed to be a way, it's trying to show that like a war like this, and a regular war like this, you learn like the decisions you have to make, and you have to weigh up like, you know, the greater good against the immediate good and like, you know,
01:21:38
Speaker
like people, good people have to make terrible decisions ultimately for the greater good and it's trying to tell a story like that. I don't think it quite succeeds in what it's setting out to be because it's still too attached to being a Call of Duty game and like an action, like an action shooting game basically. So it's stuck in that confines and those two ideas don't mesh very well most of the time.
01:22:03
Speaker
I think it went too far again. For me, it's not so much the subject matter that they chose to tackle. It's how they chose to tackle it by really gamifying it is where I think they went too far, if that makes sense. I feel like the game doesn't really have anything to say about it.
01:22:21
Speaker
It's just like, oh, here's a unique thing for you to do. Here's a unique boss fight for you. The game throughout has this sort of moral grading system where it grades actions you take. It doesn't really amount to anything. You can see, you can check your score.
01:22:43
Speaker
on like the level select screen, but it doesn't really give you anything. There's no real incentive to like, you know, try and do good at it. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't really offer you anything. And so it just feels like a kind of tacked on thing. And I don't feel like I'm learning anything about like, or, you know,
01:22:57
Speaker
getting an idea of these complex issues i just feel like i'm like oh you're just trying to shimp you're awkwardly trying to shimp gameplay into this it's definitely a fine balance because i'm thinking of other games that have tried it like let's say like spec ops the line you know where they tried to do like quite a serious story amongst trying to you know gamify it but like in terms of that there are moments where they do succeed
01:23:21
Speaker
and like a subject matter same with like the other modern warfare's like especially the first one like when shit hits the fan or even go back to no russian as you said that is just like the whole story is just like a bombastic tale going from set piece to set piece but when you go to no russian that is the only example of that
01:23:43
Speaker
and I do see what you mean. It's like that's the only controversial thing that you're probably going to do in the game whereas in the rest of it it's very much, yeah it focuses on like hunting down Makarov and things but in, as you said, in the reboot it feels as if it's more they're trying to be controversial throughout. Like again it begins with suicide bombers and then it goes into you know a country taken over by the Russians you know through aggression
01:24:12
Speaker
then it goes into you becoming a child killer and there's also another scene going back to what you were saying about the just basically the idea of like no consequence for your actions so there's a scene when you play as the head of a basically a like resistance cell against the Russians and I can't remember who the main guy is he's just very generic General Burkhoff yeah he's got his poster say this is one thing that annoyed me he's got posters everywhere and I like all with English
01:24:43
Speaker
And you'll get me wrong, I get why, because it's the English audience and everything. But maybe you could say, oh, it's because your character understands it or something. But yeah, so Russians invade a... I can't remember what language you speak if it's Farsi or it's like Arabic or... Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, I wouldn't say Farsi. Yeah, it's like one of them anyway.
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, they speak in that, you know, so it's like, it's not that, it's not Russian, it's all in English, and it's like, my God, it's great for the spies and tourists coming through this country being like, so that's what that sign says. Yes, and yeah, there's a scene where she gets, like, this leader of the cell gets captured, and she gets, like,
01:25:32
Speaker
waterboarded, she gets beaten, she gets chained up, she sees her friends with their head shaven and of course their head scarves are taken up. I don't want to be too thingy and say oh I get what they're trying to do but maybe that was a bit too far because it's like
01:25:54
Speaker
Obviously it's made to shock you and be like look who Bad War is but at the same time there's no real consequence from it. Like this whole like sequence by the way is a flashback. It's not even part of the main story really. It's like a flashback to how, I think it's, is it Farah, her name is? How she met Captain Price and everything. She basically escapes the cell and she goes out with her
01:26:20
Speaker
what she calls her sisters you know like these other female freedom fighters and they go and they break out and this it just it's it begins so I think my main problem is it begins with like the torture and everything and that and then
01:26:36
Speaker
it moves on to, oh shoot, the Russians escape, ha ha. And again, it's going back to this idea of gamifying. And again, it has to be a game. You know, it's Call of Duty. At the end of the day it's a game, but I don't know. I feel as if in some places they just went, this is going to sound like completely, you know.
01:26:56
Speaker
like off topic but have you ever seen that clip of George Lucas watching The Phantom Menace for the first time? No I haven't. So there's a behind the scenes thing where he's watching The Phantom Menace and they've just finished watching like the cut for the first time and they've realized that they've completely messed up the film but there's no going back they can't like redo it or anything and he turns round and he says in a very hushed voice he goes um I think we went too far in a few places
01:27:25
Speaker
And I feel as if in this game, everyone around them is just like, they've got their heads in their hands and they're like, oh my god, it's only just, what are we gonna do? I feel as if for this game, that's kind of how I feel. It's like, yeah, they've definitely gotten too far in a few places. I get them trying to take it in a different direction, but overall, would you say this campaign, would you say this kind of lives up to the reputation or do you think it's just them trying to be too edgy?
01:27:54
Speaker
Or not AJ, that is completely their own word, but you know what I mean? Like, too dark. Yeah. Like, I think the problem with this game, one of the problems at its heart is that it is a soft reboot. So like, they feel like the designers obviously felt they had to work within the framework of the original Modern Warfare trilogy. So obviously they're bringing back characters who are, they're slightly different, but they're still kind of roughly the same characters that we've known before. Yeah.
01:28:20
Speaker
similar organizations and things, but obviously they felt like, well, the Russians were the main bad guys of the modern warfare trilogy, so we have to have them in there. But this game, there is no need, there was no need for the Russians to be the main bad guys. You could have easily replaced them. So it takes place, the majority of it, in this fictional country we talked about.
01:28:40
Speaker
which is basically an analogy for Syria. You know, so why didn't they just make like random dictator of this country, you know, with his private army and everything like you could have easily put them in, you know, and the game would be identical.
01:28:55
Speaker
Basically, you know, and then if you want to do more the Syria analogy, then it makes sense. Okay, fine. Maybe the Russians are like doing things behind the scenes like the Americans in the West are, you know, as is what's happening in Syria now. So that makes far more sense. But they obviously felt that they had to stick. They're like, well, we have to have the Russians because some people expect from the modern warfare.
01:29:13
Speaker
You know, and it's that way of like, this is the worst way of including, I think, like, like the original Modern Warfare probably isn't still great to picture the Russians, but the very least in Call of Duty 4, like Russia, like in the game story, Russia was in a state of civil war, you know, it's fighting and the people you're fighting, the people who are the bad guys are the ultra nationalists.
01:29:32
Speaker
were a bad group and you know you fight alongside what they call the loyalist Russians so there were portrayals of good Russians there and you were like it's like taking a side in the civil war you know which is like different with this one only the only Russians with this one Russian you meet who's a good Russian or maybe there's a couple more but like the right the joy the Russians in me are like horrifically bad stereotypes you know
01:29:54
Speaker
like murdering civilians and like, you know, just horrible, like, you know, no humanity at all. And then we get references to being like, oh, you know, this is a rogue army doing its own thing down here and everything, you know, like, you know, it doesn't represent Russia. But it's not that way of showing. It's not a way of showing like, you know, because the only representation we're seeing are these horrific, you know, these horrific examples of like a Russian of Russians.
01:30:19
Speaker
And not only does it make them look horrible, but then it makes the other Russians look incompetent because they're like, oh, this rogue army is just getting away and doing all this stuff, and nobody's holding it accountable. I don't know. For me, it's such a negative portrayal. And there's no other side to it, really. And there's no reason for the Russians to have been the bad guys in this game. But that goes back to it being a soft reboot, and that they felt they obviously had to work within this context and this framework.
01:30:45
Speaker
to the detriment because I think the story has some interesting themes and ideas in there.
01:30:52
Speaker
I think they did push it too far in trying to be gritty and mature, but I kind of like the overall tone they were going for. And I think there were some interesting things to say about, you know, conflicts in our day, kind of a regular warfare and what it takes to fight it. And like, you know, this, like, there's always like, you know, always blurring gray lines and more, but it feels like especially now in the conflicts that like the West are going to fight. And so there's interesting things there and it kind of touches them.
01:31:21
Speaker
But again, it just can't break out of being a Call of Duty game. And maybe that's asking too much from a giant franchise now that's established itself, to try and take a bit more of a risky approach. So I don't know. I'm conflicted about it, because there's a lot of things I like in the game. But there's a lot of things I don't know. You can't overlook how very uncomfortable.
01:31:45
Speaker
I have to admit I'm thinking like, so when we were talking about the original trilogy we were talking about the single player mainly and we kind of briefly touched on the multiplayer. See for this one I feel as if this is the biggest disconnect between like a single player and multiplayer and what I mean by that is the single player as we just established is a very dark, gritty,
01:32:09
Speaker
very serious morality or exploration into morality and warfare. The multiplayer is a candy-coloured Fortnite-fest where you've got guns shooting lasers, or maybe not lasers but there is one gun that shoots electricity, which I'm still pissed off at.
01:32:29
Speaker
You know, it's like you've got all the pink guns and all the tracer rights. The tracer rights aren't that bad, I have to say, but you know what I mean though. You can't go from, and again, I know that's their money maker, and they've been doing that for a while. They've probably been doing that since Black Ops era, so I can't say like, oh this was the first game that did it, because it wasn't.
01:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's kind of a funny thing to note, where you're like, oh yeah, you know, war is hell. And you bring out, like, your minigun that's got, like, clown noses on the barrels, you're like...
01:33:04
Speaker
Yeah, honk the horn for a war crime. It's like, oh no, this is not good at all. I think this was the game as well that included White Phosphorus as a reward thing, which is White Phosphorus is a weapon that's banned under the Geneva Convention, I think for its use. But this game has it as like a reward thing. You can have a reward strike for it.
01:33:27
Speaker
and but gatesie games have explored that spec ops the lion has an absolutely incredible scene involving white phosphorus where like it starts off as one of these like classic like kind of like the ac 130 mission called june 4 where you're like on this like water and you're firing like this like this this white phosphorus to clear this enemy encampment and it's like that classic thing and then but then the game makes you walk through the encampment that you've just destroyed and like
01:33:51
Speaker
the carnage that is there and the people who've burnt and lost limbs and are screaming and it just brings you completely back down to Earth. It's like the effect of these weapons that you don't see in most games, you know, while here in Call of Duty it's a reward. It's like, oh you did really well at killing people, here's your white phosphorus, go crazy.
01:34:11
Speaker
I mean, technically, it's not the same because I'm assuming white phosphorus is probably a lot easier for an army to get than a nuclear weapon to use. The reason I'm saying that is because of modern warfare 2's streak.
01:34:27
Speaker
where if you got like 25 kills you could get like a nuke to drop but once you drop that like the game ended like it was a case of rinse and repeat you know you couldn't like say oh yeah i've got the nuke i've dropped it now let's drop another one it's like no no no no that's it that's your one shot whereas which was pretty op but compared to being able to use that over and over again and as well like you walk through it and your character like coughs as well have you noticed that oh yeah and things like that but
01:34:57
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, I... yeah, it is a bit of a touchy point, but at the same time, that aside, the multiplayer just feels like just any other code, doesn't it? Yeah, it's very much a formula now. I mean, it's fun enough, it's like it's competent and everything, but it's just what codes really become now.
Warzone and the Future of Call of Duty
01:35:20
Speaker
And I'm not saying that in a kind of looking down on it being that's what codes become, but it's like, as you said, it's that formula, isn't it?
01:35:27
Speaker
yeah it's just that this is what code is now and especially what i think quite interesting is they're really starting to push away modern warfare have you noticed this yeah so like if you download modern warfare just now um other than horrific download sizes like they are they are terrible but
01:35:47
Speaker
other than that instead of the so it used to be Captain Price who was like one of the leading characters in this and sorry before I go on could I just say there was an amazing like pre-order bonus on Amazon where if you bought the game you could also buy it with them like these boxes of Doritos with like XP codes in them
01:36:11
Speaker
and you could also get like a free exclusive Captain Price model but it was like it was something that I kinda like it was like it wasn't detailed it was all like smear all it was horrible it's like that and this is steady 40k fans out there but have you seen the thin your paints video where it's like oh it's um it's just basically like showing like all these models that have like really thick paint on them and it's just that you see them all screaming going oh
01:36:41
Speaker
And that's what it feels like. It's like when you look at this module you're like, that is, that is just pathetic. Where was I actually going with that? Oh yeah, with Captain Price, they have basically taken him off the thumbnail for the, like, when you're opening it up. Especially in the Xbox, I don't know if it's the same for PlayStation, but now it's just Warzone that's covering up because Warzone's their cash cow now and it's a bit depressing, but it's like Warzone and even for
01:37:07
Speaker
Black Ops Cold War. They've gotten rid of the thumbnail and now it's just Warzone. So that seems to be the way forward. Yeah, which is a bit of a shame. But on a more positive point, like to kind of wrap up, what would you, see if it's, well, two questions. Would you like to see like a sequel for the reboot? And if so,
01:37:27
Speaker
What do you want to see from this series going forward? I would like to see at least another one. Because as well, they ended this game's campaign on a cliffhanger. The end of this game is that they're reinstating Task Force 141 and people like Soap and Ghost. So they're coming back into it. They were not in the series as well. Like they mentioned General Shepard as well, his name dropped.
01:37:53
Speaker
But I would like to see, because it ends on a... And I know Warzone seems to have continued the story partially, so I'm hoping that's not going to be the way of it in the future. But I would like to see one more. Part of me almost wants to see them go down the route that Modern Warfare 2 went down and just make it a more Michael Bay-esque action thing. Because as much as I like games that do try and tackle more mature subject matter,
01:38:16
Speaker
I'm just not sure a Call of Duty game and the way it's set up is the format to do it in. There are other games out there that can have a bit more freedom to explore these issues in a more nuanced way. I don't know if a Call of Duty game is the format to explore these issues. So if they can do it well, then I would encourage them to stick with the more mature, grittier theme. But part of me just kind of hopes that they go down a more sort of Hollywood action kind of way. But I would like to see another one.
01:38:45
Speaker
at least it's kind of weird looking at the like where the franchise is now compared to where it was in 2007 yeah because it feels as if maybe it's just because they were starting out so they wanted to kind of you know like not take a step back but try and
01:39:01
Speaker
make it more realistic in the scope of the game. Because if you look at it, as I said before in Modern Warfare 1, they make references to the Geneva Convention and if you bomb a church or anything, then it just immediately fails you. Because it tells you right off the bat, it says any buildings that are protected under the convention, you don't.
01:39:22
Speaker
you know, don't touch it, don't do this, don't do that, you know, like, it's got like a set, it's like, you know when you're watching a film or something and it like lays out the ground rules for the world that you're about to step in? It's a bit like that where it's like, okay, this is what we're gonna do here, this is what we're gonna do there, that's the line. Whereas then you get to Modern Warfare 3 and they blow up the Eiffel Tower, which, not that I love the Eiffel Tower, but it's at the same time, I'm just like, why? Deserved better. Yeah.
01:39:51
Speaker
It feels like it was just done for the sake of it being done. You know what I mean? It's like it wasn't done. I mean, I know why it was like a tactical thing, but it's all they said in the game. Damn Delta Force. It's like Nix will go to London and shrink down Big Ben. It's like the maniacs. You monsters! You burden! That's the company! Yeah, just monument vandals.
01:40:19
Speaker
Like J. Joe, they're criminals! I want pictures of Delta Force! Oh, but yeah, it did go crazy, but it feels as if it's weird how it went from crazy to like a John Clancy novel.
01:40:37
Speaker
It seems like one of those cases of one of these things isn't like the other, but with 80 years in between it, it's definitely interesting how it's evolved. I would like to see as well how they go forward with it, but the only time will tell I suppose.
01:40:58
Speaker
Because I don't know what the next, in fact I think it was you that was telling me that there's not going to be a game next year. Seems like there's not going to be one this year. Oh this year, sorry. It was meant to be Sludge, so they do a 3 studio rotation. Well they were doing a 3 studio rotation.
01:41:14
Speaker
Call of Duty, so Infinity Ward would do one, then Treyarch, and then Sledgehammer were in there, but it seems Sledgehammer have kind of imploded, and this was supposed to be their game this year, but yeah, they seem to have imploded, and it looks like they're being scrapped out of the rotation, so it's back down to just two Infinity Ward and Treyarch.
01:41:30
Speaker
So I guess it would be Infinity Ward then who would have to do one this year. But I don't know whether they've just decided we can't scale up this amount of time. So we might just get more Warzone stuff I would, is what I presume. Maybe not. I mean, maybe they'll get something out. I'm honestly really surprised considering the rush trope that Black Ops was. Yeah. I mean, I know we're kind of... Well, I'm saying Wiggy to kind of deflect the blame off myself.
01:42:00
Speaker
complained about it but yeah it wasn't the best one like it had to good moments and everything and again if you want to see like a feel or hear about or feel like opinions then feel free to like go back and listen to our black ops retrospective but
01:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, there was a lot of moments in that that just felt really rushed so I can understand why they might be a bit hesitant, you know, to like bring one out, which is a bit weird because I know they like money.
01:42:32
Speaker
So I'm surprised they're not rushing another game out. It's really funny though, because if they don't release a game this year, this will be the first time since 2005 that we haven't had a... the first year since 2004 that a main series Call of Duty game has been released.
Conclusion and Social Media Promotion
01:42:51
Speaker
It's quite crazy. I can't wait till they get Warzone and the 3DS this year.
01:42:56
Speaker
I'm waiting for that port. You know, Activision, give me a call. They've got great ideas. But I mean, they've got like, and this, okay, sounds like a weird analogy, but they've got enough to sustain them, I suppose, with Warzone. Technically they've got Black Ops Cold War, which they have updated. I can't say they've done nothing to it because they have.
01:43:21
Speaker
like considering what it was like at the very beginning of launch and they've got like Call of Duty mobile as well. Oh that's true. Which is also probably a cash cow for them so they've got enough to sustain them at least until the next entry but it is a shame in a way that there's not going to be a new one but maybe it's for the best. I guess we'll hope it's for the best but you know I'll see what next year's entry is like. Oh god it's going to be like a remake of Advanced Warfare.
01:43:52
Speaker
Well now sledgehammer's gone, that might be. That might just be done for. That is a severe possibility. Well that or infinity warfare? Infinite warfare. That's not coming back. Nobody wants that apart from you. No, just like you want ghost. No, get a ghost well before infinite warfare. Oh god, we have got... I love how we're arguing about that and people are just like terrible taste at both of you.
01:44:19
Speaker
Yeah, we know. Speak for yourself, I have awesome taste. Good. I can't wait. All I can say is I can't wait till we do a T-pose an episode on Call of Duty Ghosts. Yeah, I'm calling you out now to play it.
01:44:35
Speaker
I'm calling you out to play it, my friend. I'm flexing my muscles. I can't wait to talk about that one. That is an interesting one, which we will cover in another episode of both Chatsunami and Teepo. Don't use your snarky tone to diminish Call of Duty Ghosts. I see your game. Well, yeah, what game? I don't see a game. I just see a series of sequences.
01:45:04
Speaker
With a dog! He's trying to rile me up now. What was it we were saying to rile people up again? Oh yeah it was being fans of Delta Force. Yeah that's it.
01:45:18
Speaker
We would rather people have thought of those people that existed, but I refuse to believe there is anybody. Yeah, probably. There's like one guy listening to this sitting in like, I don't know, Missouri, just like, oh man, they were my favourite guys. So yeah, once again, Adam, thank you so much for joining me on this wonderful, totally not depressing call back to these games. And yeah.
01:45:40
Speaker
If you want to see more of my content, you can catch me on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook and of course Twitch under the name Satsunami42. If you want to catch more Satsunami episodes as well, then you can find them on Anchor, Spotify and yeah, all good podcasting distributors. Yeah, if you go into iTunes, Castbox, Breaker, I think, you know, Adam, what do you use?
01:46:12
Speaker
Spotify as well, you heard the man, Spotify. Everywhere essentially. All good distributors. If you have Spotify, Anchor or just any podcasts app then type in Chat Tsunami, we'll be there. I mean that in a creepy way possible. Listen, it's like, we'll be there.
01:46:34
Speaker
We will be listening to see what you have to say about us. One more thing, you can also catch us on YouTube at Satsanami42 where we are doing a new series called Tea Posing which is basically a Let's Play series where we're playing through, yeah, just
01:46:53
Speaker
really a random bunch of games. So Adam, you and I are playing through Heavy Rain, which has honestly, despite the content, has been a blast. It's so funny. And yes, with Green Shield and I, we have been playing
01:47:10
Speaker
Legends of Zelda, Breath of the Wild of course, and of course our Escapades in Verdansk. Which, if you haven't checked it out, please feel free to go and check it out like YouTube. That's at Satsanami42. And yeah, hope you enjoy. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, I was actually, I was trying to think of another thing to end it, but have you got anything? Stay frosty. Stay frosty. Oh, Jesus, that's a good one.
01:47:40
Speaker
You came to me as a flight attendant. Stay safe, stay awesome, stay frosty, as I was saying. And most importantly guys, stay hydrated. Bye guys. Bye.