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Kind Words (2019)
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In this episode of Chatsunami, Satsunami and Adam discuss the indie game Kind Words. How has it impacted the world of gaming through positivity? Let's find out!
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Transcript
Introduction and Humor
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me today is the one, the only, the amazing, the fantastic, the absolutely brilliant co-host himself, Adam. Adam, I've got two questions for you. First of all, how are you doing today? And second of all, was that enough kind words
Elon Musk Owning Everything - A Joke
00:00:40
Speaker
for you?
00:00:40
Speaker
That was far too many kind words and I promise you the check is in the mail. Thank you for your services. No, that was, I mean, that was, I'm getting teary over here. That was quite the intro. I don't deserve any of that, but thank you very much and hello, hello. It's good to be back. Good to be back in where I belong, I feel. What can I say? Five are an amazing place. You can get so many things there, including kind words, surprisingly. Don't worry, I'll cut this bit out. No one needs to hear this.
00:01:08
Speaker
What a world we live in. God bless. Yo, I was going to make a joke about who owns Fiverr. I was like, there's probably Musk at this point. I don't know. But if it's not now, it will soon be, though. Yeah, I don't. Do you want to know how to date your podcast episode? By saying that Elon Musk doesn't own something.
00:01:27
Speaker
By the time people, you know, listen to this episode, it's probably bought the world, I don't know. It's really bought us. In which case, thank you, our gracious Emperor of Mankind. Thank you, Lord, by a thousand people. We'll accept our crumbs in the mail. We'll be broadcasting from Mars next week. Do you know, that is terrible because we're talking about a very wholesome character.
Is 'Kind Words' a Game?
00:01:48
Speaker
So yeah, as you may have guessed by the title and of course our, well I was going to say kind words but a very peculiar kind of words there. Yeah today we're going to be talking about quite an interesting game. Now I say game with hesitation because I was talking to you about this Adam and you had some kind of strong opinions about whether or not we should really define this game as a game.
00:02:13
Speaker
again this this is just my opinion and you know other opinions are there and other other opinions are valid and i want to say as well for this is no reflection on the quality of kind words i i do think this is a really great thing kind of word so this is no kind of slight against it it was just when i was i'll say playing just for ease but when i was playing it i was just like it doesn't feel like a game to call it a video game to me doesn't
00:02:37
Speaker
feel right. But then I was talking, I was chatting to you just before we started this episode. I was saying that it's the thing that I can't define, I don't know if I can define a video game, but I know one when I see one. And I don't know, to me, like, okay, it has it has the interactivity of a video game, you know, it has it has the graphics of a video game and everything like that. But
00:02:57
Speaker
I don't know, to me it almost felt more like a kind of social media platform, more than a video game is how I would almost define it, and I don't totally know if I can say exactly why, because I say it's got a lot of elements that other video games have, but this just felt like a very different experience, and we talked when we talked about Edith Finch recently, we both kind of described it more as an experience than a video game, and I kind of feel Kind Words fits into that mould as well, into that simpler mould, but what do you think?
'Kind Words' as a Venting Platform
00:03:25
Speaker
It's quite a strange one because I remember the first time that I saw this game and it was mainstreamed by one of my friends on Twitch and I was watching how he was replying to different people and initially I was kind of jokey thinking oh you just have to say this or that and then I was thinking oh why is he taking so long to you know think about his answer
00:03:50
Speaker
And as you said, it's more really of a place to vent your frustration. So for anyone who doesn't know what this game's about, Kindwords, or really its full title, Kindwords Lofi Chill Beats to Write To, it is a 2019 indie game.
00:04:09
Speaker
that was developed by an indie developer called PopCannibal, which is led by a programmer called Zeba Scott, and Mr Scott, if you are listening to this, I sincerely apologise if I completely butchered the pronunciation of your name there, so apologies. But the purpose of the game is for individuals to really just vent in a very anonymous space, so they'll write up
00:04:37
Speaker
had a bad day, they'll put it out and then that particular message will get sent out to a handful of people and the users on the other end could decide whether or not they want to really reply to that message and there's quite a diverse amount of messages. Did you find that as well Adam? Oh yeah, I certainly found a kind of spectrum of emotions and issues being raised by people.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, there's honestly such. I was gonna say like a wealth, that is right in saying, isn't it? Like a wealth of different problems. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way for it. The thing that surprised me, and I was saying this to you before we started recording tonight, but it's actually amazing how this game came out in 2019. Were you the same? So when you found out about this game, did you assume this was just a product of 2020?
00:05:30
Speaker
Definitely, it seems like a pandemic game, a time where people really were not able to communicate with others with any kind of ease. This really felt like something that would be developed in that kind of environment. So it was surprising to see that it was 2019 that it came out.
00:05:48
Speaker
However, when I reading some of the kind of the kind of mission statement of the developers, it made sense as well for why it came out before. Obviously, they didn't know that COVID was going to hit a year later, but it made sense for what they were trying to do at the time in the kind of current climate. We're just looking at it felt like a game that would have been released during the kind of pandemic.
00:06:09
Speaker
And out of curiosity, did you hear about this game before I badgered you into playing it, or was this like your first exposure into the world of Kind Words? So the first time that I heard about Kind Words was during episodes of the podcast that you did with friend of the show Craig E.C. from the Beer and Chill podcast, where you both talked about indie games, which I think was... it was 2020, what, last year? I can't remember when, I have to admit.
00:06:36
Speaker
last year but that's the first time that I heard this game being mentioned and it was really it sounded really intriguing just from hearing too you just bring it up and kind of talk about it a little bit but that was my first exposure see diving into this game so before you know we jump into like the main discussion did you have any preconceptions jumping into this game
00:06:55
Speaker
I don't think I was surprised
Adam's Journey with 'Kind Words'
00:06:58
Speaker
jumping into it. It was what I thought it was going to be. In terms of mechanically, I knew what the game entailed. It was exactly that. So I wasn't surprised from it by that.
00:07:11
Speaker
i don't know i guess in terms of a kind of preconception yeah i guess i guess i didn't i guess i didn't really know because i knew it was going to be people you know sharing the kind of issues and problems and talking about kind of their emotional state and everything so i knew that broadly but i don't think i really knew what to expect you know from that i didn't know what i was you know what you were going to see what you were going to read and we'll get we'll get more into some shows
00:07:34
Speaker
get to our main discussion but it made me actually quite nervous to actually to start to fire up this game with that sort of implications there so in a way like mechanically we completely met the expectations I had but I kind of found it difficult to have any preconceptions because I just wasn't sure what I was going to be faced with upon logging into it so it was a very very interesting experience like both going into the game but going into kind of words and you know then also experiencing it
00:07:59
Speaker
You know, say with any further ado, well we'll just jump into discussing this, quite frankly, amazing game. And I keep saying game. I think we should just call it game 3, something to be honest. It's just when you brought it up in the game, I have honestly been thinking about this. It's been stewing in my mind. I keep thinking, is this a game?
00:08:19
Speaker
or is it something a little bit more? Would you say this is more than a game? Definitely. At the very least, this is pushing at the boundary of what a video game is, at the very least, and I honestly think it's gone beyond that. I think it's such a unique experience.
00:08:35
Speaker
I don't think this description does it justice, but the only thing that I can only really compare it to is a kind of social media platform. Again, I don't think that does it fully justice, but I'm just trying to find an example of something that I think is kind of akin to kind of words. Social media platform is the description that
00:08:54
Speaker
fits to me but again that's just that's a very personal opinion and you know i'm sure other people have very different views on it but to me it's such an interesting product you know and it really is kind of pushing it out what is a video game so will we just jump into it then let's go for it and before
Chatsunami Podcast Promotion
00:09:09
Speaker
we start i better warn you listeners at home that we will be diving into probably not in depth about mental health issues but we probably will be kind of scattering around those issues so just a fair warning just before we kind of jump into it but
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah, without any further ado, we are going to take a short break and when we come back, we will be talking about Kind Words. So stick with us and we will see you soon. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films.
00:09:53
Speaker
If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us on Anchor, Spotify, YouTube and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:10:06
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandmother's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Craig you see. And we are Beer and Chill.
Community Vibes in 'Kind Words'
00:10:41
Speaker
So let's talk about Kind Words. Adam, what was your kind of first experience going into this game? Because I know you were saying before, and I was kind of laughing when you were telling... Not in a bad way, but I was laughing when you were saying how you felt it was quite daunting.
00:10:57
Speaker
trying to use the game initially because I felt exactly the same. As I said, it's a completely anonymous platform where you can send a message out about whatever issue or struggle you're going through during the day and you're only identified with one letter. So it's like the first letter of the name
00:11:17
Speaker
did you sign up with? But even though it's anonymous, did you still feel quite wary about replying and venting your own issues into the game?
00:11:36
Speaker
and real kind of emotions being discussed and it was I was very nervous to enter kind of a forum like that and there's not I think it should be encouraged for people to share how they're feeling and to talk about these issues so I had no issue with that but you know what I was really scared to actually interact to like read what people were you know going through and that implication of trying to like you know of having to reply to that it was really
00:12:00
Speaker
I'm really nervous because I'm not a trained mental health professional in the slightest. I really don't have any kind of expertise in handling situations like that. And so I felt like a really weighty thing to going into that. I was like, what do I say? What do I say? What advice can I give? Should I give advice? What if I give bad advice? That was a thing that really I found to be really overarching about it.
00:12:27
Speaker
it can be uncomfortable sometimes to share your own kind of emotions but you know I knew there was level of anonymity there so it wasn't so much that part of it it was kind of responding to other people's and to be honest when I eventually got the courage to fire up kind of words I wasn't even sure that I was going to actually respond to anybody's because I still had the absolute nerves I didn't I was so on edge about saying anything that might you know might not be helpful and because it's
00:12:50
Speaker
people with real problems everything you really don't want to do anything to make things worse for people so that would for me was a real kind of stumbling block and I've never experienced anything like that with any kind of you know quote-unquote game at all like I've been you know I've maybe been like not wanted to start other games but for reasons I'm like oh I think it's too long or I don't think I'm interested in this I don't feel like playing it you know whatever maybe if it's like a horror game or something you know I'm a bit scared to but this was like
00:13:15
Speaker
completely different kind of fear and anxiety for starting kind words but you know going into it I remember I was I was like right I'm just gonna I'll read some requests and I'll see and so I was flicking through and you're reading things and people and then I remember coming across one and I thought well here's one that I can I can sort of relate to and I thought you know what I'm just going to I'm just going to have a guy and the game as kind words has a so I'm just gonna cook because I'm just
00:13:39
Speaker
I keep doing this, but the game I think is very good with kind of telling you at the beginning and being like, look, you know, you're not expected to provide advice here because, you know, it's not for most people, it's not what they're trained to do or experienced to do. So it's just more about just empathizing. And perhaps, you know, perhaps you can share, you know, a related experience or perhaps you understand what somebody is going through. And it's more just about empathizing.
00:14:01
Speaker
And I think once I thought about it that way, I was like, okay, well, this feels much more approachable now. And I felt more comfortable to actually send a reply, you know, and again, it was an issue that I felt I could I could empathize with and I sent a kind of kind of just a more general sort of supportive message. And it felt good to do that. And then that gave me a bit of comfort to then write, you know, a letter of my own. And I was able to kind of get more into the experience from that. But it was it was such a unique
00:14:25
Speaker
you know such a unique feeling before going into kind words I've never experienced that you know I can't think of experiencing that with anything else to be honest just just that fear of that kind of apprehension of responding to other people because you're just like god but I don't want to make the wrong move but I'm interested to hear how you felt kind of going into the going into kind words and if you had any kind of similar thoughts to me no I completely see where you're coming from with that
00:14:48
Speaker
Even though it is anonymous and it's a place where, quite frankly, Zuba Scott has created such a, I wouldn't say perfect, but such a wonderful safe zone for people to kind of, as I say, reinvent or listen. And I have to admit, growing up myself being quite a introverted person, and I always make a joke,
00:15:10
Speaker
saying haha, I run a podcast with you Adam. I'm a very shy person in real life, so I'm one of these people that I struggle to, unless it's obviously with a really close friend, I always worry about unloading my own issues onto other people because I think
00:15:30
Speaker
the end of the day none of us know what other people are going through. You know, you could walk by someone in the street and they could have had the best day of their lives or they could have had the worst day of their lives. Nobody knows and I was kind of worried because I didn't want to feel like a burden to say I've got an issue today but at the same time I was kind of curious. I thought I really want to try this game and after plucking up the courage because again as I said I bought this game
00:15:58
Speaker
around 2020 where I always laugh sorry whenever I think about the 2020s because although as of recording this is 2022 I'm just thinking of the future if there's like a super virus like in the far future and people are going ah yeah we missed the 2020 times but in 2020 for those of you who probably won't remember listening to this it was a time where people were isolated they were scared they didn't know what was going on
00:16:25
Speaker
Covid was absolutely rampaging through the world and technically it still is but not to the same extent it was there.
Unexpected Positivity in Anonymity
00:16:33
Speaker
So to have a game like this, which it almost does feel like a miracle that it popped up in 2019, it came out on the 6th of July. It had a good like six months probably to kind of get going, build up a community but in 2020 I think it definitely picked up steam because myself included
00:16:53
Speaker
a lot of streamers were picking up this game, they were playing the game, and I know I keep calling that game, but they started drawing a lot more attention to it, so more and more people were coming in, they were coming in together as a community. The one thing I was really surprised at, and I'm curious to hear what you think Adam, but I was actually really surprised at how positive people were in this game because, I mean, you and I are products of the 360 generation aren't we?
00:17:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, we've been through the wars. The call of duties, the battlefields, the men above all others. Yeah, were you surprised at how positive people were reacting to you? Because let's face it, usually when you get one of these studies where people remain anonymous and they have to talk to other anonymous people, usually you're going to get a higher chance of people being like, malicious or horrible or nasty. But I've been using this game for
00:17:50
Speaker
neuron two years now, would they say? And I don't actually think I've encountered anybody particularly malicious. I know you've been using it for a shorter amount of time, Adam, but were you quite taken aback by that? Oh yeah, it's really surprising. I was very surprised not to. And again, I only have a small sample size of
00:18:11
Speaker
of trying kind words but I was very surprised to see actually how wonderful and nice people were and how supportive just before we came on the episode I was reading through some of the responses to the letter that I'd sent and they were all absolutely lovely and you know really supportive and really kind of heartwarming and so it's absolutely lovely to see that and I think it's especially it was surprising for two things I think number one we're so used to now just expecting what
00:18:34
Speaker
with any kind of like, you know, I think you're like, don't look at the comments, you know, because you're just gonna see the worst of, you feel like you're gonna see the worst of humanity there. And we're just so used to kind of the negative aspects of communication on the internet that it's nice to see something rebuff that and be so different. And as well, as you say, this game really is based around anonymity. I especially, I feel like for me, and maybe other people share this opinion, but part of me just thinks that when I'm just thinking how anonymous the internet can make people, it just, it feels like people get a license from that to say like horrible things, you know,
00:19:04
Speaker
to be really mean-spirited because it's like, oh, nobody will ever find me that I have this kind of protection. So it's nice to see that kind of anonymity be used for something good and something positive. And I actually thought I was reading some quotes from the developers of this game just before we started the episode. He was talking about their experience with trolls and trolling.
00:19:24
Speaker
He said the game is structured in such a way that actually there's no real quote unquote fun to be had from trolling because this game is not about starting a dialogue between people. So you write your letter and then people can respond to it, but that's really all. You can't then have a follow up response. You can only send stickers to them if you find somebody's advice very helpful.
00:19:44
Speaker
or if you like what somebody said you can send them a sticker as a kind of thank you and that's really all that kind of ends the communication there so there's no you know kind of trolling lives and dies on people responding you know and a conversation going and because this game doesn't provide that the zebra said kind of suffocated any kind of trolling because they took away the oxygen that trolling needs to kind of survive
00:20:03
Speaker
And I thought he raised a really interesting point as well, the lead developer, when he talks about, he basically said a lot of bad online behavior comes from people who are having a tough time. And it's a really interesting way to think about that kind of side to the problem. And he talks about there's not really that much banning on kind words because at the end of the day, it's a thing about sharing. He said a ban tells people they're not welcome here, and he doesn't want kind words to kind of be that. So I think it's a really interesting experience.
00:20:31
Speaker
Just for the way it kind of subverts, I think our own expectations now about the internet and about communicating with strangers on the internet. I mean, there's a change in landscape, isn't it? Oh, completely, yeah. It's something very different. Jumping on something you said there when you said, you know, anonymity nowadays is more or less used for malicious purposes, whether it be trolling or
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, just anything really horrible. I mean, we've all seen the scam calls, the kind of messages, the harassment and things. It is a horrible place, the internet at times, but there's sometimes slivers of good, and of course that is definitely shown in this game. You can definitely tell that
00:21:15
Speaker
there has been a lot of thought put into this game, especially for, as you said, the report system and all this to goodness, I can't remember any such instance where I've had a difficult time.
Anonymity and Genuine Support
00:21:30
Speaker
And it's as you said, a lot of people who are venting on this game are doing so because they're in a bad place in their life. And not always, but sometimes people just need an outlet. They just need someone to listen to their problems.
00:21:44
Speaker
they don't need someone to judge or say what you did is wrong or kind of compound the situation. But I'm quite curious, say when you brought up earlier that, and you're completely right, it is like a one-way dialogue. So you put out your message to the community in kind words and then they'll send a message back responding to your request. But then that's it. You can maintain the dialogue with them.
00:22:10
Speaker
So what are your opinions, Adam, on that? Do you think that's quite a smart decision, or what do you think? I think definitely, in terms of lessening the impact of trolling, I think it was the perfect decision in that regard. I think it's a really good approach as well, just generally, because at the end of the day, most of the people on this are not going to be mental health professionals. Maybe some people have experience of dealing with these kind of issues and helping people with
00:22:38
Speaker
these issues. I'm going to guess for the vast majority probably don't have that kind of depth of experience that is required to really handle and help people solve these issues and these problems. So I think just having that very kind of limited window of communication I think is
00:22:55
Speaker
Perfect. And I think that's what I think what was great about when the game just tells you right up front. It's about empathizing and sympathizing and just kind of being supportive. It's not about solving problems. That's for a pick the people who have experience with that. So I think just having that limited window where you can read somebody's letter and then you can just you can send them a nice heartwarming, supportive message to them. They can send you a little token back.
00:23:18
Speaker
as thanks I think is the absolute perfect way because in the day you know this is not a platform to get I know I called it like a kind of quasi social media platform but it's not you know unlike other social media buttons it's not about getting to know people you know and it's not about meeting people that's not what this is a forum for
00:23:35
Speaker
You know, this is a forum for basically just sending out love and positive vibes and support.
Simplicity and Support in 'Kind Words'
00:23:40
Speaker
And so having that limited interaction, I think, is perfect because it really facilitates that. And the game encourages you not to share personal details because that's not what it's about. And that's what you're looking for, that there's other sites available for that kind of interaction. So I think it's absolutely perfect in having the very kind of limited response and it being a very it's a very simple
00:23:59
Speaker
experience I think that's one thing I really admire about Kind Words and there's not a lot in this game, not a lot in this at all you know you can as you say you can write a letter you can reply to people with other letters and then you can also you can write a little like paper airplane thing which I think you get like four lines or something like that and you can just write a little like positive message you send it off and it like floats through the other people other users screens everything and people can read that it's just a little there's no you can't respond to that at all but maybe it's a nice little nice little thing I read some really nice ones when I was playing
00:24:29
Speaker
It's just, it's a really simple experience and I think that's to its benefit. I don't think if you added any more kind of complex features and more options interact, I think that would lessen the experience and what Kind Words is trying to achieve.
00:24:41
Speaker
I feel as if when I started playing this game in 2020, it hasn't really changed all that
Features of 'Kind Words'
00:24:49
Speaker
much, but a couple of. So when you're playing through, or I say play through, when you're responding to people, they can also send you things called stickers, which as the name implies, you have like this kind of sticker boot.
00:25:04
Speaker
where depending on the type of room that you set up in the game, you can click on the sticker and the sticker itself can manifest itself in your room. Some are better than others, I will say this is a slight tangent, but there's some of them where they're absolutely adorable, you get
00:25:22
Speaker
a cube with a mustache, you'll get like a piece of cake, you'll get things like that. But some of them are terrifying, like I don't know if you've seen this with Adam, but there's one that's literally like a giant yeti that just looks over your room, and it is terrifying. It's like something out of anime. I've yet to come across the giant yeti, oh. I look forward to that one with some apprehension. There's also Cthulhu tentacles, which I thought, weird choice! What the fuck am I? That well-known mental health professional, HP Lovecraft. Yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
I mean, what could I say? He's wrote many books, therefore he's a professional. One thing I do like about this game is the fact that in the start-up menu, if you click the help icon, there's actually resources that you can call, or rather a gishy list of resources that you can call and, you know, kind of escalate it to a professional if
00:26:09
Speaker
Kind Words itself isn't enough for you, which going back to what you were saying before, I feel as if Kind Words is one of those games that is really good for someone who has to vent about a particular issue, but again it has to kind of come with that understanding that they're not getting professional help.
00:26:29
Speaker
echoing what you were saying earlier, I too am really not a professional when it comes to mental health and things like that. That's like not my job in real life so although I love to listen, I love to you know try and help people as best I can especially in kind words. One thing I will do and I don't know if you felt the same Adam but one thing I do is if I see an issue which I know for a fact
00:26:55
Speaker
I'm not qualified to answer. I'll just like skip it because there's a lot of issues that people will kind of vein or talk about and they'll think, oh I can relate to that. And the one hand I kind of feel bad for doing that to kind of pick and choose what I'm, you know, responding to but on the other hand I think
00:27:13
Speaker
It's better I'm putting those kind of issues aside rather than replying to them and making a kind of half-assed
Understanding Support Limitations
00:27:21
Speaker
attempt. What are your thoughts on that? No, I completely agree and I think that's the best approach. I think that's another strength of kind words. I don't think you feel, well I certainly didn't feel compelled to answer every single letter that I saw, every single request.
00:27:36
Speaker
I felt that I could kind of sift through and eventually I found one that I felt more able to provide some kind of support to. Again, I wasn't going in trying to solve the problem because I don't have the skills to do that. It's not my place to do that, but I felt I was able to lend a little bit of support, maybe at least empathize. I think that's the complete right approach because I think it is important to realize your own limitations about what you can provide support with. Because you do encounter, there's a range of emotions and situations
00:28:06
Speaker
that you will encounter. Unkind words, you know, and some are very, very serious and issues that do need to be properly addressed by somebody with relevant experience and knowledge. So I think, and the game I think is good at making you feel like you can just move on from the letter. You know, maybe you may be like, oh, if you do, but you have to, I think you do have to realize, you have to realize I'm not a mental health professional. I am just a sympathetic person and
00:28:45
Speaker
going off of that point, one thing I would say is it is good in a way that
Emotional Balance in 'Kind Words'
00:28:51
Speaker
it doesn't
00:28:51
Speaker
gamify that aspect of it, if you know what I mean, it's not saying if you reply to so many letters a day you're gonna get a prize or you're gonna do this or that, although the closest you get to that, and I did notice a couple of people doing this, not always but they'll send out a letter and say I need a particular sticker to complete my book as if it is like a game about completing the sticker books and don't get me wrong, I get there might be
00:29:20
Speaker
be younger audiences that don't take it as seriously. After a bit you do see the discrepancies between the way some people type and the particular issues, you know, if people are single it's because of school or it's because of my job or something like that, you know, you can definitely tell for the most part. Like you can't tell 100%, I'm not saying that you could, but sometimes you can kind of gauge
00:29:43
Speaker
what kind of person you're talking to, but you have to be careful that what advice you're giving is going to be sensitive enough. As much as I love this game, it's not really that regulated, if you know what I mean. Like, it is regulated because there's like a report button and everything. If you put yourself in the shoes of, like, someone who's having a bad day, they put their heart and soul into the game and they say, having a bad day, you're not having a mental breakdown, something like that.
00:30:11
Speaker
and someone comes back with a nasty message, the only way someone's going to know that's a nasty message is if that person reports it. And if that person's in a bad frame of mind and that's the first letter they get, then that's just going to throw them off.
00:30:26
Speaker
And again, I'm not putting any blame towards Zeba Scott or Pop Cannibal as a whole because obviously it's one guy that's developed this. It's not like a AAA team or anything. It's not like a whole range of people. Is there any particular issues you would say you could kind of gleam from exposing yourself to this game, Adam?
00:30:48
Speaker
It's that's a good point that you raise and I hadn't, I hadn't actually considered that. And I suppose that is the downside I say to not having maybe a more rigorous kind of banning the system there again, apparently there is some kind of filter that's supposed to filter out but I don't know how it works. I don't know if that's changed since you know the article that I was reading maybe they've changed that but that that is I think a really
00:31:08
Speaker
that is a really important issue. I don't know, I guess maybe the only, maybe one of the things I could think of that could be a negative is this would depend really on the person, but I could see that potentially if you invest a lot of time in reading people's issues and people's emotions and trying to respond and be supportive.
00:31:25
Speaker
I could see that maybe taking a toll on a person potentially if you maybe devoted too much time to that and you just take on too much. And again, the game is good and it's limited. You're not going to become involved in an extended conversation, extended discussion. But I could maybe see that being an issue. But again, I can't really lay that at the foot of the developers or
00:31:46
Speaker
Kind words itself because to address that you'd have to change I think the whole experience I think that really is like that really depends on the person There are some people who are really are very giving and what to do all they can Sometimes to the detriment of themselves and their own kind of a mental welfare That's really and that's one of the big issues I can think of but again I can't really I don't know if I have a solution for that because I don't know if there is a solution Unfortunately, I think maybe it's it
00:32:08
Speaker
it just really depends on the person's personality and you can't really get around this. I don't think there's anything that Kind Words can do to get around that without completely changing what it is. I have to admit, I think a lot of the issues that could be taken from Kind Words isn't an issue with the game itself, if that makes sense. It's more of like a human condition kind of deal because I have to admit, going back to what you were saying about people getting too absorbed in this game, I have to admit
00:32:34
Speaker
maybe not to a detriment, like it wasn't like I was kind of sweating and thinking what's coming through in Kind Words but during the lockdown in 2020 and 2021 subsequently I found myself spending a lot of time on the game and I would reply to people and I totally see what you mean. I felt myself I was like constantly trying to reply to people. Obviously I wasn't replying to everything but the ones I could I kept
00:33:01
Speaker
replying and replying thinking this is just someone that needs like a hand or needs help or someone to listen to but you're completely right. If more and more people do that then I suppose numb is the wrong word but do you know what I mean? You become kind of emotionally drained. I burnt out.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah, I feel as if that's kind of an issue as well, because if you're emotionally burnt out then how is your response going to be for the next person who needs a year? And don't get me wrong, they obviously don't know that you've either been having a bad day or you've been on Kind Words
Mental Health Awareness
00:33:35
Speaker
itself.
00:33:35
Speaker
you've been, like, replying to these messages over and over again. So by the time you get to this poor person who just wants to say, oh, I'm not doing so well, then they go, oh well, go outside, touch grass, just, I don't know, eat an ice cream, and that's not giving 100%. And don't get me wrong, like, I'm not saying for one second that any person of the kind of worst community has, like,
00:33:57
Speaker
they're not held to the same standards as a mental health professional or a doctor or anything like that. Absolutely not. This is purely voluntary both on the receiving end and sending as well your messages. But again, the issues that come from this game aren't so much with the content itself because I'm going to be honest, I think what Kind Words has achieved is absolutely fantastic. I feel as if
00:34:22
Speaker
they have built up such a welcoming and warm community. And honestly, it shocks me because, as I said at the beginning of this episode, I did not expect it to be such a positive place, but it really is. It's just an absolutely fantastic place to, again, I would strongly urge anybody going through like
00:34:44
Speaker
very difficult times. If you feel as if, you know, you just need somewhere to vent your issues, then Kind Wars definitely is a good place for that. With the understanding that, you know, it's just going to be other users who are helping you and just people giving their time, you know, it's not going to be a mental health professional that's going to be on the other end.
00:35:05
Speaker
if your issues extend to something more than something a letter can fix then I would obviously strongly urge you to seek out the help you need which there are resources on the game on the title screen under the help icon
00:35:21
Speaker
you can click that and I think there's a list of different resources you could go to so I would strongly encourage that but I think for all it is Kind Words does a fantastic job.
Ethics of Streaming 'Kind Words'
00:35:31
Speaker
But one thing I want to ask you Adam, see before we go on to the final bit of this episode, I want to talk about Twitch for a second because as I said before the only reason I found out about this game was because one of my friends decided to stream this game and reply to people live on the air and things
00:35:49
Speaker
What are your opinions of that? Because don't get me wrong, the whole experience is very anonymous. At the same time, going back to a phrase I used in the Edith Finch review that we did last episode, it's almost kind of voyeuristic, isn't it? Where you're taking someone's issue that they've had, putting it onto Twitch,
00:36:09
Speaker
and kind of using that as content. And I'm not pointing the blame at any streamer for streaming kind of works or anything or saying, you know, oh, they're taking advantage because they are. But what is your claim to take on that, Adam? What do you think? I think I'm kind of in lockstep with you on this one. It's not something that I would do.
00:36:29
Speaker
I would have to. I mean, I don't have a Twitch channel. I'm not a streamer. But it's not, if I was in a situation, it's not something I would do because I think you're completely right. I think it is quite voyeuristic. And again, it's not, maybe that's unfair to say because people can, you know, people can be just raising awareness of the fact that this kind of words exists. You know, they are trying to help.
00:36:52
Speaker
People and that is a good thing. But yeah, I don't know. It makes me slightly uneasy to think about like some of these streaming that kind words feels like such a personal experience Not only just in sort of, you know you writing a letter but just in you Experiencing it as well. It was something that when I played it It's something that I think I would only ever want to do by myself
00:37:13
Speaker
I would happily tell people about Kind Words and say like I think this is a really interesting and really excellent product that's out there and I would highly recommend that people check it out and people try it out, experience it for themselves but it's not something I want to share while I'm playing it because it feels just to me and again this is a personal opinion and this isn't gospel by any means.
00:37:34
Speaker
but it is such a personal intimate experience and I don't know that's how that's how I want to that's how I want to kind of experience and play and again that's not to say that's how you have to do it but it's just that just doesn't sit right to me is streaming it because I have to met as someone who has streamed in the past I
00:37:51
Speaker
have considered at times streaming kind words, and this was when I first got the game, but the more and more I got into it, the more I realised that this wasn't something I, again, mirrored in what you were saying, it's not something I was comfortable with sharing to the world again.
00:38:11
Speaker
mostly on any content creator that wants to bring awareness to Kindwords. I think it's fantastic that more and more people are learning about this game, that in this world where people aren't as, I mean, it's getting better, but in a world where people aren't as sure about whether or not they want to share these mental issues and
00:38:32
Speaker
You know, even just simple things like, oh, I went to the shops and my bag ripped open, can anyone tell me a funny story? Even small events like that, I just did not feel comfortable with, again, sharing that. But that's not to say that other content creators can't do it. All I would say is they have to do it in a very particular way. I wouldn't say the common
00:38:55
Speaker
content creator can just hop on and say, oh, I'm going to talk about Kind Words. Haha, look at this guy. Kind Words, at the end of the day, although it's a public game and it's a game that people are, you know, people are playing this game. Even if it's anonymous, they are putting their heart soul out there for people to read and to give their opinion, give their views, kind of comfort people.
00:39:18
Speaker
as long as they're not doing it in a disrespectful way then it's fine but it's kind of a double-edged sword because as I said it brings awareness to the game and without that as I said without that friend streaming kind words I would never have heard about this game at all so at the same time you know job done
00:39:40
Speaker
by people streaming this game it means that they are putting the word out there that there is a place people could come to that they could share their experiences but again at the same time going back to what you were saying it's a very personal experience and I do agree I think you get a lot more out
Personal Impact of 'Kind Words'
00:39:56
Speaker
of it.
00:39:56
Speaker
Because on the one hand, when I was thinking about streaming this, I was like, oh, I wonder if I should stream it and see if I can help people and talk to people as I'm doing it. But then I thought, the more I used it and the more I was putting out personal issues of my own onto the game, I kind of thought, is this something that I would feel comfortable with?
00:40:17
Speaker
having on the stream and the answer is no. And it's things like having a bad day at work or not feeling the best because just issues in general. I kept thinking, well, if I'm not comfortable with my own problems being aired out there
00:40:34
Speaker
even anonymously, would I feel comfortable airing out other people's answers just simply no. That's why I wouldn't do it even though it's anonymous, but you make some very good points Adam, I totally agree with what you were saying there. I think a lot of this revolves around how unique and experienced Kind Words is, and that's another reason why I hesitate to call it a game, because it feels so
00:40:59
Speaker
it just feels so different in every respect to your average game that I think it's important to share this experience with people and to let people know that it exists and to encourage them to try it out but again it's that way I again I just don't think it it just doesn't sit right to me to use a forum like twitch to do that in it's such an interesting thing kind of words you know whatever it is whether it's a gaming experience whatever you want to call it it's such an
00:41:24
Speaker
interesting thing and it's so fascinating and it just it feels so unique and novel like this is why I'm struggling to define what it is and it's funny because you know with when we get kind of other games you know a lot of the time if we really like a game and we'll recommend it to somebody we're like oh you go in blind don't look up anything about this because you'll get so much more from it it's the complete opposite with this one I say know what you're getting into here because you need to know these are real people
00:41:50
Speaker
and you need to know that people are going to be sharing real issues and real problems that can be really very serious in nature and so I encourage you if you're going to if you want to please do go try kind words experience it it's well worth it it's absolutely fantastic but please do know what you're getting into read up on it and stuff because I think that's really important
00:42:08
Speaker
No, I completely agree. It's definitely one of those games that, and again, various term game, but it's one of those games that you have to know what you're getting into. Because as you said, the whole point of, I guess it extends to the definition of a game. A game is something, you know, you pass your time with by, you know, achieving certain objectives and getting
00:42:34
Speaker
fun out of it for kind of words, the objectives there, you know, your objective is to listen and to try and help other people but the only, as I said before, the only kind of gamey aspect is A, collecting and I don't know if it's randomised or not but collecting the different lo-fi tracks to listen to as you're replying to people and of course the other one being the stickers but
00:43:00
Speaker
even then that's more of like a passive reward is probably the wrong term but you know it's like while you're helping people maybe by chance you'll get a new sticker and as long as people realise that it's a game for helping people and for venting and not a game about collecting stickers because you can definitely tell people who are trying to get the stickers and they're like oh can i get to do your sticker and it's like no you can't do your sticker go away and oh and stay for what it is i think it does and
00:43:29
Speaker
absolutely fantastic
Community Feedback on 'Kind Words'
00:43:31
Speaker
job. But before we finish up, I have one more thing I want to share in this episode. So a couple of weeks ago when I was talking to Adam off the air, I said to him that I was going to put out a couple of notes into the world of kind words, and I was completely transparent. I'm going to read out these notes in a minute, but I basically told people that
00:43:54
Speaker
I was a podcaster and I wanted to know about their experiences. So, when we dive into these questions, then answer, random. Yeah, I'm really interested to hear what other people have experienced with this game and how people have found it, so please do. I'm really interested to hear.
00:44:12
Speaker
Before I go on, I just want to be very transparent here because I know I said before about Twitch streamers using this game as content. I think the only difference there is just the fact that they can't really, you know, they can't see to people. I mean, they could probably see at the bottom.
00:44:29
Speaker
the reply that oh haha you're on twitch but you know there's no way to kind of broadcast that for every single you know request you're going through this is what I said to people so the first note that I said I'd like to know your experiences with this game as someone who's gone through some horrible times the past two years and have been helped by this game I would love to hear how this game has helped you as well and then I added of course the Chatsunami special don't forget to stay hydrated too
00:44:55
Speaker
This was the first response I got. Here's my little thesis on the beauty of this game. It's the act of giving that makes this tiny society so gorgeous. There is nothing to do but give and be vulnerable, to give out pieces of ourself and share and for others to hold.
00:45:11
Speaker
To give advice with learnt and struggles with experienced, I feel privileged to be in this exchange of goodwill and giving. To be giving presence and to receive them, I feel arguably too good to be here. I've only been here for a day, but it already feels like home. Have you got any thoughts on that one?"
00:45:33
Speaker
really add anything but to say I'm so happy that somebody has found Kind Words to be such a positive, such a fulfilling forum for them and that it's helped. So that's so encouraging to hear. It's responses like that that really do show you the kind of power of this platform and the good as something like Kind Words can do. So that is lovely to hear.
00:45:53
Speaker
for the second response we have got the following. I think for me personally it's simply knowing that I am not alone. Hearing people that can relate to how I feel makes me feel so much less isolated and then they left a heart after that. Also the advice slash tips that I have received really have helped me as well. In the heat of the moment it's like my brain malfunctions
00:46:15
Speaker
and sometimes I can't even think of the obvious thing to do. The help from others and moments like that is much appreciated. I hope you have an awesome day or night wherever you are in this wide world.
00:46:26
Speaker
and stay safe. I think that again shows one of the really unique strengths of, in fact, you may be arguing it's unique strength of Kind Words is that, you know, getting to briefly communicate with people who have gone through similar things and similar experiences and emotions and, you know, just maybe knowing that you're not alone in what you're going through, what you're dealing with. So I think that is the real strength of Kind Words and providing a forum
00:46:50
Speaker
for people to come into contact with other people who have gone through similar things. As brief as it is, you know, I think that is a really important thing. I do think that is the great feat of kind words. So this is the final response we go to this question. Hi there, friend.
00:47:05
Speaker
This game has helped me with some of my self-confidence. Obviously, due to my depression, I start to self-doubt it all, but at least it cheers me up for a short while. I love how this game is filled with a caring and accepting community, full of people with similar situations as me. This game has helped me realise that there are people out there who are like me. Thank you for letting me write to you, stranger. And you know what? Out of all the three of those responses for that particular question,
00:47:32
Speaker
none of them were negative at all and just completely parroted what you're saying there. It's just a testament to the strength of this game, isn't it? And it's so, oh completely, and it's so lovely to hear that it's helped somebody through some issues that they're going through. And again, this probably isn't going to be the solution to a lot of people's problems, a lot of people's emotions, but if it can provide some kind of comfort, some kind of solace and maybe help
00:47:57
Speaker
people to get on the road to dealing with whatever it is they're going through, then how many other games can really say that? I'm sure there are some other ones that people have found very affirming and important in their lives, but I think Kind Words must be right up there as one of these experiences that can really have such a positive impact on your life. So it was absolutely lovely to hear all three of those responses and the fact that they all were so positive, it's just lovely to hear.
00:48:23
Speaker
for the second question here. Again I was being very transparent and I want to make that crystal clear. I'll probably post the responses in particular onto our Chat Tsunami Podcast website because really I feel as if it's important for you guys to actually read these responses and really just kind of take in what kind of game this is. Before I go on to the next question Adam I'm quite curious to hear your thoughts on this but
00:48:50
Speaker
I remember when I tried to get responses from people on Instagram, Twitter, no one was really coming forward to say what they liked about this game. In terms of Kind Works itself, there was a multitude of people sending in the responses and their thoughts. Do you think that's probably down to anonymity?
00:49:11
Speaker
My guess would be that is probably the main reason. You know, maybe people feel more comfortable sharing their thoughts on Kind Words itself rather than through another medium. Yeah, I guess it's a little surprising that maybe people wouldn't feel comfortable in other ones, but I suppose I can understand it as well. Perhaps it just feels natural to go on to Kind Words, you know, itself and kind of talk more openly about what you like about Kind Words and what it means to you and the effect it's had on you. So I guess I can see.
00:49:39
Speaker
So for the second question, this is what I wrote. I wrote, I run a podcast and would love to know how kind words has affected your life. I've been using this myself for two years and would love to share this amazing game with more people. You're all fantastic people and deserve nothing but the best in life. And I do wholeheartedly mean that. So the first response I got from this one was, hi dear S, hope you're doing great.
00:50:03
Speaker
glad to hear that you are thriving in life while using this game. It is so refreshing to hear that people are sharing their stories here while remaining to be anonymous. Take care and all the best. Lots of love from me to you. And again it's that idea of anonymity again isn't it? Oh exactly, it is that thing that people obviously do feel more open
00:50:23
Speaker
you know, more able to share and open up and be much more positive. There is that level of anonymity and it's nice to see that being, again, being used for something positive rather than the kind of more negative aspects that I think we're accustomed to thinking about the minute people get anonymity on the internet. So it's nice to see a more positive result from that.
00:50:41
Speaker
So for the second response, we got the following. It's a bit odd the way I use this platform. Throughout my life there's been a consistent theme when it comes to my emotional state. If I get too close to someone, I lose the ability to be able to share any fact about my mental state that is negative. Even now, if I'm feeling helpless or overwhelmed,
00:51:02
Speaker
the people closest to me will never know. Somewhere along the way I find that I'm more comfortable sharing with people I'm always somewhat acquainted with. Enter this game, strangers I don't know with good intentions works." That is a very good point. There's almost that kind of feeling of burden for some people that people don't want to bother
00:51:23
Speaker
close relatives or loved ones or anyone like that, or even friends, and say, oh I'm going through this difficult time. Whereas in a form for, as we said, buzzword of the day anonymity, but this anonymous form that allows them to kindle vain without having to worry about birthing someone that's close to them.
00:51:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's very interesting. And it's so nice to again hear that, especially if for somebody like that who does really struggle to share and open up with people that they get closer to, it's so nice that there is a forum where it's the perfect level of acquaintance for them to open up and share. So it's really it's lovely that this forum is here.
00:52:06
Speaker
to allow for that because everybody's different. Maybe some people feel more comfortable opening up to people that they're closer to, but obviously there are people who don't feel that way. So I think Kind Words is the perfect forum for that. If that's where you feel comfortable being a bit more vulnerable, it's having this level of anonymity, then it's absolutely fantastic that this resource is here to be used. So yeah, again, it's just really encouraging to hear that people are finding it of such use to them.
00:52:31
Speaker
And for the final response that we got for this, this was recommended to me by a friend who I saw playing on stream. I've been able to get some big things off my chest and ideas on how to confront people politely. I've also been given wonderful insight into how my partner might be thinking when I was overthinking and stressing some things.
00:52:50
Speaker
I asked them about it and they said it was exactly right. They couldn't vocalise it before. The music and the airplanes are very uplifting for me as well. I also love the feeling of collecting a new sticker slash decoration. It's kind of brought us back full circle, hasn't it? The idea that although it's kind of at a knife's edge of whether or not it's good to stream this game or not, streaming has been like a good source of visibility for this game. It's a really good point.
00:53:19
Speaker
If that is helping more people to discover client words, then perhaps it is. In my personal reservation design, perhaps that is a good thing. If it does get more people to know about the existence of client words and to hopefully try it out themselves and then to find for it to help them. And again, it can be a really helpful thing sometimes to consider how other people view things and it can help you as well. It can help you understand other people and maybe understand situations a bit better. So if that person was able to find help
00:53:47
Speaker
with things that are going through from that perspective then again just just it's just wonderful to hear that it just it just really kind of warms the heart to hear people sharing how Kind Words has positively affected them so it's just lovely to hear. As I said I'll probably be posting these responses onto the Chatsunami website but
00:54:03
Speaker
I've entirely encouraged you to read through them, to kind of go away and think about them and honestly if you want to share your own experiences about Kind Words with us, and again this isn't for us to display to the world, if you just want to privately message us and say Kind Words helped us in this way or that way, honestly feel free to because we would love to hear if Kind Words helped you, what you think about it because at the end of the day
00:54:31
Speaker
Kindward is an anomaly of gaming, and I probably brought this up in the Indie Game episode of Chat Tsunami, where we discussed different indie games that were quite important to us, and of course, as we discussed Kindward, it's so interesting nowadays that this game exists, because let's face it, say a couple of years ago, this game wouldn't exist, would it? Not at all. I mean,
00:54:57
Speaker
If we're being honest, gaming industry and video games have had a pretty mixed record when it comes to, you know, dealing with mental health issues. And I think games are getting much better now handling these issues with, you know, sensitivity and with the care they deserve. But you're completely right in that this wouldn't have existed. I can't see this existing a couple of years back.
00:55:18
Speaker
And even in the more open and compassionate environment now, I still think Kind Words is right there at the forefront of providing such a unique experience to approach these issues. Maybe not everything's going to get solved from Kind Words, but the fact that it exists and the fact that it can provide hopefully some level of comfort is just an amazing thing and it deserves to be celebrated for that.
00:55:43
Speaker
Honestly, I think that's probably the perfect kind of work to finish the episode on. No, completely. I think that's the perfect way to end. If I could just share one last, just before we end here, if I could just reinforce how lovely it is to see such a kind of positive forum. And I was moaning to you just before we came onto the episode about my struggles to find birthday cards recently, and the fact that I felt like I was confronted. I felt like every second option, and excuse my language here, was some form of happy birthday, you twat or something like that.
00:56:12
Speaker
I was really struggling to find just a nice kind of birthday card and then go and try out Kind Words and just find this like lovely forum of people just being supportive and being kind. It really just warmed my heart and honestly I would say I would highly recommend trying it out but please do know what you're getting into and that is really critical for this so do your research and if you feel it's something that you want to explore then I would I would highly encourage that you do.
00:56:34
Speaker
And yeah, I can only mirror what you said there. If you're looking for a game where you want to try and vent and be anonymous in a very safe space, go check out Kind Words. The community is absolutely lovely. It's honestly such a pleasure to actually play this game. And you don't need me probably to say this, but if you need to hear it, don't be ashamed of
00:56:58
Speaker
needing a place to vent your issues because whether it's something small like as I said if your shopping bag bursts open or you know you had a bad day at work or you've got relationship issues whatever your problem is and you feel as if kind words can sort it out feel free to give it a try because there's absolutely no shame in going out there and taking that first step to getting help.
00:57:24
Speaker
for your mental health. Honestly, a huge congrats to Zeba Scott, and again apologies if I've completely butchered that name, but congrats to Mr Scott, they are absolutely knocking that out of the park with this game. And yeah, on that note, Adam, thank you for giving this game a try.
00:57:41
Speaker
No, thank you so much for, thank you so much for first of all, introducing it to me. And then secondly is, well, I have to give you thanks because Satsunami would kindly purchase the game from me as a gift. So thank you all on both accounts and for encouraging me to try this out. And, you know, I was I was nervous. I was apprehensive before trying out, but I'm so glad that I did. I'm so glad that I pushed through my my fear and just experience to experience this wonderful thing. And it's definitely something that I think I will go back to.
00:58:09
Speaker
maybe not every single day but definitely something that I think I'm gonna come back to throughout the years and days and months to come because it's something so unique and I think it's something to be really celebrated. Now all that's left is yeah I just need to get you to play to the moon now. Your emotional journey will be complete. Not to spoil but from what you have said about to the moon I am very eager to give it a go.
00:58:32
Speaker
Well, you say what I've told you. You mean more like my sobbing through broken sentences. That sobbing has made me very, very, very eager to try this, to try this. I think I can call this one a game. I think I can unquote my right and say I can unqualifiedly call this one a game.
00:58:49
Speaker
Oh yeah, more so than kind words I have to say. Nothing against kind words but yeah, both of them are very emotional experiences but you will see. Don't you worry Adam. I look forward to experiencing this one. And yeah, in that note, if you want to check out more of our episodes of Chat Tsunami, you can as always check us out on Anker, Spotify, iTunes, YouTube,
00:59:12
Speaker
In really any good podcast app, just look for the red panda under the name Chat Tsunami and we will see you there. But until then, thank you all so, so much for joining us in this episode. Stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated and don't forget to tell someone a kind word.