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Episode 383: Losing to Portland sucks
75 Plays2 years ago
So, uh, that happened. For the better part of 70 minutes, the Sounders basically controlled the match against the Portland Timbers and looked likely to end their three-game losing streak. But then Dairon Asprilla scored an admittedly impressive bicycle kick, revived the crowd and sent a bolt of energy into the Timbers. 20 minutes later, they were 4-1 winners.
It was the fourth straight time the Sounders had lost to the Timbers, the first time that’s ever happened in the rivalry’s history; the Timbers beat the Sounders by three goals for the second time in three meetings, a losing margin the Sounders have only suffered two other times since the start of 2019; they’ve now outscored the Sounders 11-2 in those four games; and the Sounders gave up more goals in that 20-minute span than they had in their previous 700 minutes this year.
It was not surprising that Brian Schmetzer was about as mad as I’ve ever seen him in the postgame, saying he’s not even sure if the Sounders can consider this a rivalry anymore.
We unpacked the collapse and how the Sounders move forward.
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Transcript
Episode Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
Player Introductions: Roldan and Morris
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I'm sorry, Bob Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS 2.0! Here come three games from the middle!
00:01:03
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. This is a tiny f***ing doll.
00:01:36
Speaker
Is that why you young people call twerking?
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Fullpool Wines, Watson's Counter, and our Substax subscribers. This is episode 383, and we're recording on Tuesday, April 17th, 2023. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is Aaron Campo and our engineer, Lickett.
Match Recap: Sounders vs. Timbers
00:01:54
Speaker
So, uh, that happened for the better part of 70 minutes. The Sanders basically controlled the match against the Portland timbers and looked likely to end their three game losing streak. But then Dirona Spree has scored an ab admittedly impressive bicycle kick, revived the crowd and sent a bolt of energy into the timbers 20 minutes later. They were four, one winners.
00:02:13
Speaker
It was the fourth straight time the Sounders had lost to the Timbers, the first time that's ever happened in the rivalry's history. The Timbers beat the Sounders by three goals for the second time in their last three meetings. Allusion margin, the Sounders have only suffered two other times since the start of 2019.
00:02:28
Speaker
They've now scored the Sounders 11-2 in those four games, and the Sounders gave up more goals in that 20-minute span than they had in their previous 700 minutes this year.
Coach and Fan Reactions
00:02:38
Speaker
It was not surprising that Brian Spencer was about as mad as I've ever seen him in the postgame, saying he's not even sure if the Sounders can consider this a rivalry anymore. Aaron, what were your reactions at the time, and what do you think actually happened?
00:02:56
Speaker
I mean, I was pissed off. I was extremely pissed off, as I think anybody who saw my tweets during the game could probably have guessed. I can definitely tell that I've grown up because the being pissed off only lasted for an hour or two. I was moved on to other things pretty quickly.
00:03:16
Speaker
It's not if you go to Portland and you lose two to one or one nail or what have you, it sucks, right? It's a bummer. But, you know, whatever to go down there and lose that way after, like you said, they dominated for the first 70 minutes. I mean, that was like a consistent thought that I had was this Portland team is really bad. The Sounders have played pretty well, but they have not been able to
00:03:43
Speaker
get out of their own way and in key moments they've gotten pretty lucky with some shaky defending this just does not feel like a game that should be this hard and then esprita scores and it's off to the races from there
00:03:57
Speaker
I don't know what happened, but I it's clearly not to do with the talent levels of the team teams involved. The timbers are a bad team. They're a really bad team for the first 70 minutes. They looked like total garbage and they didn't even look that great for the last 20, 25 minutes. The Sounders just looked completely incapable of stopping them.
00:04:19
Speaker
And the Sounders, we know we're a good team. We've seen it all year. This is, you know, the, up until this game, I would say the best Sounders team I've ever seen for, you know, a run of seven or eight games have been incredible. And whatever it was.
00:04:36
Speaker
was not, I think, tactical, although I have some questions or concerns about some of the substitutions and the tactical shifts, but I think it's entirely
Key Moments and Tactical Analysis
00:04:47
Speaker
mental. I think the Portland Timbers have gotten completely into the heads of the Sounders.
00:04:51
Speaker
We've talked this year a lot about how when the Sounders have conceded this year on the rare occasions that they have or when they've had tough moments where they didn't convert open chances, we haven't seen their heads drop the way that they did at times last year. We haven't seen that lack of confidence. They haven't looked shell-shocked. They've always looked like a team that knew they could go.
00:05:11
Speaker
and get that chance and this time convert it or not allow another goal and put the game out of reach. As soon as the timbers scored, they looked like kids. They just did not look like themselves at all. It was a dramatic change in body language. It just was a dramatic change. And I do think
00:05:34
Speaker
there's something to be said about the way the goal happened was part of it. Like it wasn't like there was this patient buildup and, and Oh, they got us or they got out. It was like, it wasn't this well-worked goal. Really. It was just like a relatively mundane possession where, you know, I saw someone person actually suggested that, uh, that cross was miss hit. Cause it, there was someone at the back post that was that was more open.
00:06:02
Speaker
And and Espria just kind of conjured this out of thin air. I mean, that's a that's an amazing goal. He had two guys basically sandwiched around him. He didn't have to kick one of them in the face to score, which he didn't. He didn't actually make contact with Alex. I should be said. I know a lot of people were up in arms and said that should have been a high boot, but I I got to admit, I don't think.
00:06:26
Speaker
I think that it probably should be, but it's never, ever going to be called. If you make contact on it, if he misses the ball, it's a dangerous play. But if you, if you score it, you're going to get the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, fair enough. But, um, I think it was to some degree, I think it was how it happened. But you know what? Something else I found myself thinking about, and I, I don't know what curious your thoughts on this.
00:06:52
Speaker
in a way, I almost would just as well them lose this game for one and it just be this absolute gut like, like a just a total shot to the jaw like Brian Spencer said that today. That's almost better than if they had lost this two to one
00:07:10
Speaker
like where it was like really just sort of a gut punch. Like, like, you know, I'm thinking of the last time they played at Providence where they, they lost two to one, they had scored the first goal, but they were really sort of never in the game. They had a chance to equalize like a Jackson Reagan had an open header, uh, that he, I think he hit off the crossbar or maybe hit it over, but
00:07:31
Speaker
I'd almost take this kind of loss because you can't ignore it. You can't write it off. You have to almost be like you have to face it head on and it and it like hopefully is a shock to the system and they come out just hair on fire and you know, hopefully they go into the next game on a you know, four game winning streak or over many games are until the next one.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean that that is a possibility another possibility is it's like last year where the Sounders came into the to the game against Portland and they'd look like they'd kind of turned it around put the slow league start behind them and then they got you know
00:08:04
Speaker
walloped at home and looked like crap the rest of the year. And that's, I mean, that's my concern. And it was the concern I had with the way that game unfolded is that they just looked like they had fully reverted to a bad team for 25 minutes. And, you know, if that stays at 25 minutes, okay. Not the, not the biggest deal in the world.
00:08:25
Speaker
But if it carries over, if there's a hangover effect, if there was a dent in the confidence that can't be repaired by a good week in training, I think that's where it becomes a bigger concern. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I suppose that's a that's a good way of putting it. Like if they come back and they beat Minnesota this week, I think it's, you know, maybe not easy to write to to like not be worried about the about this last game. But if there is a.
00:08:54
Speaker
If they don't win this game, then it does linger around and that's going to be very uncomfortable and very bad. Now, I will say there was some mitigating circumstances around this and keeping in mind that Portland had their own list of mitigating circumstances as well. There's a good chance that next time the centers play Portland, they'll have a couple more pieces.
00:09:18
Speaker
I didn't really think this was a talent issue before. I don't think it's a talent issue now, but that Christian Roldan was a last minute scratch. He had been training with the starters all week.
00:09:29
Speaker
and that Albert Rusnak was out, I think those two absences were both really significant. And I almost would say either one of those players being on the field might have themselves really avoided that collapse because of what both of those players do so well.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think I think that either of those guys missing is a huge problem. Both of them missing is a bigger problem. I think attention missing was was a big deal as well. Yeah. And I think I was extremely hard on on a Mars performance during the game. And I do think that it was.
00:10:05
Speaker
as bad as I've ever seen him play by a pretty significant margin. But I don't think it's an accident that the game that he looked that bad so uncharacteristically out of sorts was the game where Robon, Rusnak, and Atencio were all missing. I do think that it was one of those things where just a bunch of little to medium-sized problems compounded and turned into the kind of fiasco that we saw.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. And it should be said, Obed, I thought actually played pretty well. I don't think he was the main problem, but he had a great assist. It should also be said. Yes. So I suppose you could argue that they don't score that goal if Obed is in there. I don't necessarily think that they wouldn't have scored, but Obed was good. I thought he was probably one of the bright spots in the game.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it is it is kind of a funny one where the guy that isn't usually in the team wasn't the problem. And it was a lot of guys who are ordinarily in the team, but missing those three players was clearly an impact, even though it wasn't.
00:11:17
Speaker
that that was the problem. And Obed does different things than Russnak. You know, Russnak is much more of a player who is going to help you in possession.
Impact of Player Absences and Tactics
00:11:28
Speaker
And the Sounders dominated possession in this game, but it's the way that they, you know, Mark Kastner, who you may remember from the last episode of Nos Arigatas, had a great observation this last week where he was saying that one of the problems the Sounders had was they weren't able to really
00:11:45
Speaker
create a rest defense. And by that, he means being able to sort of defend with the ball by just holding onto it. Like, especially after that first goal, that's what they needed to do. They needed to be able to just not give the ball away. That doesn't mean they had to stop attacking, but it does mean that they needed to just be smart, to not give the ball away, to not let Portland get out and transition. Something they had done a wonderful job of for the first 70 minutes,
00:12:15
Speaker
And then all of a sudden towards the end of the game, it was just like, it was a free for all. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I think that's the thing that's so frustrating about the way this game went is that the first 70 minutes before the Esprita goal looked, I think similar ish to the galaxy game without the final product where it's not like the sounders were
00:12:40
Speaker
at their very, very sharpest, right? But they were in control. They were a team that felt they had the talent edge. They had the game under control. They knew before media scored, they knew they were going to score. Uh, they were doing all the things they'd done well so far this year, just not quite as sharply. And I think in, in a rivalry game, that's kind of to be expected. I think it's really hard to be.
00:13:05
Speaker
completely sharp in a game where the emotions are really high. They tend to be a little more physical, all those factors, right? And then last 20 minutes, I mean, just completely uncharacteristic. All of the little problems that they had over last year that plagued them through various times throughout the season
00:13:26
Speaker
all happened at the same time like 10 times worse and it was just so baffling to see because it's just even when the sounders have been bad in the past they very rarely have been shambolic and yeah this was this i mean this was as bad as i've ever seen him look
00:13:42
Speaker
I mean, I haven't confirmed this, but my suspicion is that they probably had never given up four goals in 18 minutes. I would hope not. Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, it's a lot of goals to give up in a small amount of time. And to your point, teams don't do that. They especially don't do that in good teams don't do it. They especially don't do it in games where they have otherwise been dominating. It's just not a thing that happens for the most part.
00:14:11
Speaker
And I would imagine it won't ever, it probably won't ever happen again, or at least not for the foreseeable future. So it's there, there was an element of flukiness to it that you, you can't ignore, but whether they gave up four goals or if they gave up two goals, it's still like they still just stop playing their game for the last 20 minutes. Uh, you know, and, and I think there's been rightfully a lot of focus on, Oh,
00:14:38
Speaker
the decision that immediately, almost exactly immediately, preceded the collapse. And that was removing Leochu and replacing him with a bear. And, you know, Brian Spencer talked about it after the game. He talked about it again today at training. And I think his thinking is not
00:14:59
Speaker
crazy he there is some like there was some logic behind it you know he basically figured look we did this against st. Louis it was a similar he said it was one zero was not one zero was two zero he also did it later in the game it was the 83rd minute it wasn't the 70th minute or a 68th minute actually
00:15:19
Speaker
it was at home it was not against an opponent who had beat you three straight times it was against a uh an expansion team who i think was rightfully maybe not like you could you could rely you could you could especially they were down to zero there's just a lot of
00:15:39
Speaker
a lot of variables that were different. But he liked how they looked in that game. And in his mind, it was like, this is us going for the kill. It's better to get another goal than to just try to close this game out. And I guess that thinking isn't totally out of whack. But it just seems like the smart move, especially with how you're dominating, especially given that Rui Diaz was apparently on a pitch count, essentially.
00:16:06
Speaker
replace pull out a bear pull out rue ideas and replace them with a bear and just keep doing what you're doing like you don't have to there's no need to change your formation there's no need to change up your like i i don't i like it just seems like it just was sort of aggressive for the sake of being aggressive yeah and it and i it clearly didn't work
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, I 100% agree. I felt that way at the time. It just seemed like what the sounders were doing was working so well. And that's the thing is it's like if you feel like you need another goal and you can't create and you're not creating chances and you don't feel like you're going to be able to do that, that's one thing. But the sounders were having their way with the timbers. I mean, the first 15, 20 minutes of the second half were
00:16:54
Speaker
dominance. I mean, it looked like what we've seen a lot this year, and we talked about a lot in the St. Louis game where the Sounders spent the first half kind of feeling out their opponent, and the second half made adjustments, came out guns blazing. And I think to so drastically change up the system, especially against the team, and I think this is a really key thing as well, the Timbers like to counter. They scored more or less all four of their goals on counters,
00:17:23
Speaker
And that's not St. Louis is a counter pressing team. It's a much different approach and taking off a vertical threat in behind in layout shoe, putting on. I mean, a bear is a great player, but he's not.
00:17:37
Speaker
the guy I want, I don't want him and Ruby Diaz on the pitch at the same time against the team that likes to counter, especially when you've lost like some of your verticality, especially when you've lost some width. I just, I think that that's a substitution that makes sense in other circumstances and is baffling to me in this one. And it's pretty rare that Brandt Spencer makes decisions that even when they don't work out, I can usually say,
00:18:05
Speaker
I understand the thought process here, and I think it's a thought process that makes sense. I think you do a good job of laying out what he was thinking, but it doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I agree. I would like to think that if he had to do it over again, he would have made the straightforward substitution that was just like sitting there.
00:18:27
Speaker
And you didn't have to do something like you know he said like maybe we just lock it down and we get to the 80th minute and if we're still up 1-0 we bring in Javi for Leo and I suppose that would be another way you could do that. I don't think you and I suppose maybe that was the he didn't really spell this out but maybe he did mean it in a way that was like like what I said which is you just get yourself to the
00:18:50
Speaker
80 you maybe move a bear in for rue ideas and then you get if you get to the 80th minute then you kind of start playing with your formation you put a more defensive formation you protect against the counter you do all these kind of things but i'll also point out the other thing that made that four four two decision so odd is that
00:19:08
Speaker
they had already sort of made a gamble in the starting lineup where they, and this is something that we had talked about, I think we've talked about on the show before, is the reason that we hadn't really seen two Rui Diaz and Morris before was because that's a really different,
00:19:24
Speaker
tactical capacity than if it's Roldan, Morris, and Chu, or Roldan, Rui Diaz, and Morris. Roldan being the key there, or Rusnak, you could put either Roldan or Rusnak, because essentially what they're able to do is act as another, they're able to sort of pinch in and act as like a fourth central midfielder.
00:19:46
Speaker
And so without Rolled On or Rustneck on the pitch, you were already playing with one less sort of like sensual midfielder, so incapable of clogging up the midfield. And that's part of why they've been so good at protecting against the counter is this kind of ability to play.
00:20:06
Speaker
he sort of doubled down on that by taking off another. So yeah, by essentially now you're asking Morris to essentially have to behave as that other player.
00:20:20
Speaker
You also are pulling Ledero out of his central role and you're pushing him out to the wing and you've sort of created this big void or you're asking a bear to defend like a 10.
Defensive Stability and Substitutions
00:20:31
Speaker
And I don't think that's really, that's not going to be his strong suit. You want him chasing down, you want him to be maybe counter pressing some, but he's not going to offer you a lot of set defending.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah, yes, exactly. I think that's a more robust way of saying what I was trying to say with like, it's just such a weird against the team like the timbers who the one thing you can do is run straight to to put your players in a position like that where and I and I do think that I don't want to play armchair psychologist again. I tend to try to avoid doing that, but I've done it like five shows in a row now, but
00:21:13
Speaker
Maybe the thought process is that, you know what? We've lost three in a row to these guys. I would like to get back to beating them like we used to, especially at their own place. And they're there for the taking. Let's go out and get another two or three goals.
00:21:34
Speaker
uh and and that's like i understand the emotion of that right like i would i would always want the sounders to to be aggressive against portland when the game is there for the taking but i don't know i without putting themselves in a position to get cut apart like that and again i think like we can analyze the tactics and and see reasons that the sounders became more vulnerable after those substitutions i think there's a lot more going on here so i don't
00:22:03
Speaker
They made the tactical switch, but I do think it made what happened a lot more. I think it made it open the door for for what happened to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, and I will say I got into sort of a lengthy discussion with someone on Twitter about how much whether or not that first goal, how directly tied it was to the sub. And, you know, there's a I guess there's a case to be made for it. I don't necessarily buy like
00:22:33
Speaker
Like ultimately it was a great goal that came out of almost nothing. The Sounders had the numbers to defend it. Could they have, but maybe, maybe the sub made it a little bit more likely that it could happen because there was just one fewer.
00:22:48
Speaker
player there to kind of defend it. But either way, I'm with you. I don't I don't think that the subs are the main culprit or the sub was the main culprit, but it just it it made it go from a very unlikely scenario to maybe a like, you know, unlikely scenario. And it came came good and it still is awful. I should also say that the
00:23:15
Speaker
atmosphere. The other thing that just killed me about, about the way that that goal changed the game was the atmosphere had really died down a lot. Like it hit, like it was, it was bordering on like almost quiet at times during, from the point that the center scored until the point that Esprita scored. And that from that point forward, it was just mayhem. It was so loud. It was
00:23:39
Speaker
It, you know, there was just energy in the building that just wasn't there. And that's why I say that I think it really had something to do with the type of goal it was and not just it just being another goal. Yeah, totally agree. And I think, I mean, that's like, that is kind of.
00:23:54
Speaker
all of those factors that played into this happening. Most of them in the sounders control, whether tactically or just the performances on the pitch. But when you allow a goal to be scored like that, you are going to let the crowd back into it, especially when it's an equalizer. If the sounders had gone up 2-0, they probably should have a couple minutes earlier. Yeah, that's a good point. The crowd is still going to come alive, but it's not going to be the same, right?
00:24:20
Speaker
then to let the crowd get back into it, what you have to do there. Because I think you're right that that goal is just one of those things where you kind of have to just take it, right? You just kind of have to live with it. It's a great goal. I don't think kind of, you know, like you said that the substitution formation change really had all that much to do with that goal in particular. It's really the next three that I think are more that maybe to where that's more to blame.
00:24:49
Speaker
But instead of the Sounders doing what they've done this year, which is just taking it all in stride and going out and doing their thing, they let the crowd get to them, they let the moment get to them, and it just snowballed from there. I keep saying it, but I just don't get it because it's not what we've seen from them this year.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, I would totally agree with her. Well, uh, I think this is probably a good place to call this or I take it back. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back, uh, talk a little bit more about, you know, the, the other goals after the, the first one, talk a little bit about the, what we liked, uh, from the, from the formation that the center started with, uh, you know, and, and a few other things. And, uh, yeah, you listened to no Saudi at this.
00:25:37
Speaker
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00:26:06
Speaker
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00:26:21
Speaker
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00:26:49
Speaker
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00:27:12
Speaker
Welcome back to NOS Adiatus. So there were a few more things I wanted to get into before we move on to the next game.
00:27:24
Speaker
But so I wanted to unpack some of the other goals specifically, uh, well, especially the first two, uh, because I think those were the two that happened when it was still a game. I'm willing to sort of write off the fourth one a little bit because it was sort of out of hand at that point. And, and there was a lot of things that I don't think I'm worried about, uh, or the things that happened on that one. I'm not as worried about the second and third though.
00:27:52
Speaker
weren't some discussion. On the second one, basically it was a turnover that then is compounded by Obed first taking sort of a bad angle, Yamar then taking a bad angle and Reagan, I don't know,
00:28:10
Speaker
I'm inclined to say he was a little caught out, but he was maybe in a no-win situation there. And he was basically in a foot race with a guy who's going to beat him. And Fugasha ends up hitting a shot that probably gets an arm on, but I don't really blame him for not saving. I mean, that was just bad defending, just classic bad defending.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's, we saw a lot of that over the last 20, 25 minutes and people were very hard on step and fry in this game and I'm, you know, both definitely.
00:28:46
Speaker
We'll talk about that. But I do think that a constant theme in this game was just in the last 20 minutes. It felt like a lot longer than 20 minutes, but it really only was 20 minutes. The sounders just not stopping the guys who that's their whole job to do is to stop them or at least put them in a slightly more difficult position. It just felt like the timbers were allowed to do whatever they wanted to.
00:29:12
Speaker
And yeah, it was just it was Reagan and Yamer have been.
00:29:19
Speaker
lights out this year, right? It looks like the second coming of Chad Marshall, but with even more mobility and, and, and Gamar has looked like, you know, the best version of himself that we've seen. And it was just like, they'd completely forgot how to play. And I think no more was it just sort of baffling, like you just kind of stopped playing defense then on, then on that second goal.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And then on the third, the third goal is the one where I think Fry is getting really lit up for and rightfully so. Basically, it's a shot that is not like there's some traffic, but it, you know, watching the replay, I, I think Fry saw it. Yeah. And he just.
00:30:07
Speaker
pops it up in the air like he just he just leaves it it's a very he looks like he's kind of he just awkwardly sort of like volleyballs it away and it in but what makes it even worse is that there are three timbers closer to the rebound than any sounders no sounders are reacting to the shot at all
00:30:29
Speaker
And he manages to save the first rebound, but then Nisgoda is just there to sort of tap it in. And I'm definitely, I think maybe part of the reason that there was no defenders there is that they just, it looked like the kind of thing that a goalkeeper catches or at least puts it wherever they want.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, it was really an uncharacteristic lack of situational awareness by Stephen Fry to not do pretty much any other thing with with that shot. And we've been pretty consistent defenders of Stephen Fry. And and I think that I still think he's clearly the best option and goalkeeper. But I mean, there's no defending that.
00:31:17
Speaker
play. That's a howler. That's the definition of a howler to let that in. And if I have any, I don't know, if there's anything positive to take away from it, it's that, well, that's not a situation where he's not reacting quickly enough or he's not.
00:31:37
Speaker
You know, I don't know. Some people were saying that they think he has bad vision and we're saying that pretty earnestly. I don't feel like that. I don't know. I mean, maybe that's the problem. I don't know. But it seems like it would be showing itself in more. Right. Right. I think that it was just a goof up at a really bad time and.
00:31:58
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, there's nothing really else to say about it. And I think the frustrating thing about it is that it seemed like the reaction of a player who is very flustered by that circumstances. Now, he was put into like he wasn't screened and he had a clear line of sight.
00:32:14
Speaker
But the defense let him down there in that situation. He should get a lot of blame for that. He did really poorly on that play, but it's not like everybody else did their job really well. No, right. I think that's that's an important thing here is it's sort of like in the same way that the second goal happens where there's all these cascading errors, right? Like you can't. There's just no reason that three timbers should be the closest to the rebound. Like that's just not.
00:32:42
Speaker
That can't be the way you're reacting defensively. And I think what, you know, I guess to put it into better context or fuller context is I think what people are worried about is that Fry now has given up three goals where he's left a rebound. I will say, and I don't, you know, like the other two are not great either, but
00:33:09
Speaker
they're much more excusable. Like they're much more in the range of, look, goalkeepers aren't going to punch a rebound exactly where they want it to go every single time. So sometimes that's going to happen, right? Like you take enough shots, there's going to be some rebounds that don't go where you want them to go. I'm not ready to proclaim that Fry is just routinely giving up bad rebounds, but
00:33:38
Speaker
This one does, you know, when you give up one like this, it starts to put the other ones in much starker contrast. I definitely think that this one was as bad as people have acted like the other ones were. Yes. And that's like at least one of the other ones he made, I think, a really good save and there's no way he's doing anything but getting a hand on it to stop it. I don't really understand how you can blame that on him. It's like, yeah, he got to the ball.
00:34:04
Speaker
That's all he could have hoped to do. One of the other ones wasn't quite that bad, but it was a much less clear cut. That is a ball you catch, or at least parry over goal or well out of harm's way rather than just sort of... At the time, it almost looked like he had it and dropped it.
00:34:26
Speaker
And that's a whole different, I think, class of bad error. And, I mean, the only concern I have with it long-term is that, like, whether or not it's affecting his confidence. Yeah. And, you know, that can happen with keepers, even keepers as well established as Stuff and Fry. Now that he does have three goals that whether or not all three of them were, quote, his fault, unquote,
00:34:53
Speaker
You know that that can't feel great from his perspective. So that's that's my only real concern with that one long term. But I do think he had a poor game overall like I think I just the thing that is I think a little strange to me is that. And I think it's common that this happens where when the Sounders give up goals and look bad defensively.
00:35:14
Speaker
People spend a lot more time talking about Stephen Fry than the defense. And I think the defense had a much like Reagan and Yamar had a much worse game than Stephen Fry did.
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, I would, I would tend to agree with that. Uh, and that sort of leads into this next question though, was anyone bad enough in this game, like the most stable part of the sounders roster or lineup has been the back five, uh, knew who didn't play one game. They, you in, I guess it was the same game that rolled on didn't start, right? Yeah. They both didn't start the same game, but in seven of the eight games, they've had the exact same back five.
Future Lineup Considerations
00:35:58
Speaker
Did anyone play bad enough that you don't think they should be starting against Minnesota? With the context of the rest of the season, I don't think so. And especially given the way the game unfolded, I think Yemor looked shaky all night. But everyone else, I think, looked fine until things got out of hand. And I just, if the defense had been so-so this year and then that happened, I think maybe that's a question you have to think a little bit harder about.
00:36:27
Speaker
But the defense has been one of the best parts of the team this year until that 20 minutes. And so I don't think that unless it does seem like it had a lasting impact on somebody's confidence, I don't think that you can make a change to what's been a really effective unit based on that one game.
00:36:46
Speaker
especially considering all the changes upstream, like all the changes to the midfield that Sounders had to kind of change the way that they played and all that can have cascading effects. But I definitely think another shaky performance and you've got to consider benching whoever has that shaky performance, if for no other reason than to just get them out of their own heads. Yeah, I think that's probably fair.
00:37:15
Speaker
I actually was, it was before the goal, the, one of the sort of like talking points I had in my head was this Alex Roldan Deiron Espria battle is really entertaining. Like they were going at it. Uh, and I, I mean, I'm guessing Roldan gives up 20 or 30 pounds. Espria is a big guy. He's a big dude. Yeah.
00:37:36
Speaker
Uh, and they were just, they're battling, they were having quite a battle. I was very impressed with Alex Roldan. Now I think you can definitely argue he, you know, he sort of gets posterized a little bit there on the, on the bicycle kick, not necessarily his fault, but he's in the frame. Uh, so that's sort of what happens. And, uh, so I didn't have any fault with him.
00:38:03
Speaker
really I don't I mean like he was the least of their defensive problems I think uh and knew who similarly like it was not new who's best game but I I still really think he's he's done great so this really comes down to you know does yamar or jackson potentially need a day off does does fry potentially need a day off uh I don't think I'm there either I don't think either any of them are quite there but
00:38:30
Speaker
you know, hopefully they and hopefully they do well against Minnesota. We put this all to bed and whatever, but I suppose it's worth asking. So the final thing I wanted to talk about today is to end on a little bit more of a positive note.
00:38:43
Speaker
I was like I said earlier in the show, I was a little I was I maybe not skeptical, but I understood why the sounders had not previously used that front three that they used, even though it seemed like the obvious way to get all three of these players who everyone seems to want to see on the field together. And I don't think it worked great, but it worked.
00:39:09
Speaker
reasonably well, like they were, like, I think we saw both Morris and Chu able to stretch the defense. They were both getting good opportunities coming off the wings. And Rui Diaz was a little, he had a heavy touch a few times. He wasn't as sharp as, you know, his best version, but he also scored a perfectly, you know, vintage-esque Rui Diaz goal, where he just kind of swipes it into the goal from 14 yards out or whatever.
00:39:39
Speaker
And all in all, I thought it was a pretty good look. Now, I don't I'm not necessarily saying we should use that against Minnesota, but I liked it. Yeah, I thought that it was effective. I think that it opened up some problems later on when you didn't have more of a box to box type player on the wing. Yeah. But that's that's the different. I mean, that's a whole different ball wax. Right. And I think in general, they created chances. I like.
00:40:06
Speaker
Morris and Chu obviously worked really well with Chu on the left, Morris in the center. But I kind of like having guys on both wings that can stretch the defense a lot and Rui Dias, you know, sort of dropping in to the midfield a little bit more. And, you know, I like that look. I think it can be effective definitely against certain opponents. I think, weirdly, it does kind of work against the timbers because you can just kind of tell the fullbacks to stay at home a little bit more and try to be a little more vertical.
00:40:35
Speaker
You run into some with problems, I guess, when you actually get into the attack and you aren't able to create chances from a counter, but it's fun to watch and it can be really effective. So I think that there are opponents I can work against. I definitely think it's a look that you could see the Sounders going to later in games, whether they're chasing a goal or just want somebody to run at tired fullbacks.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, I thought it looked great. And I think I'm with you in that it's not, I don't think that this is a look the sounders need to try to make work necessarily. I think if Christian is healthy, he should probably be back on the right and Jordan should probably be back on the left.
00:41:17
Speaker
or in the middle, although that seems unlikely still. But yeah, it was definitely, I think I was similarly a little bit skeptical about it just because it's such a different look. They don't have that box-to-box player on the wing and Christian Roldan. And yeah, there's definitely promise to it.
00:41:37
Speaker
So that does bring up an interesting lineup question this week is what would you, I guess, my suspicion is that Brian is going to have to choose one of these three setups. It's either going to be chew Morris and Rusnak across the front with Vargas and JP sitting beneath, or he's going to go.
00:42:01
Speaker
JP and Rusnak with Morris, Rui Diaz, and Chu. Which of those two lineups, I guess, is there a third set up that I'm missing that's rather obvious? Well, it's Christian out, out, for sure. Christian is probably, I mean, my assumption is, Chris, he's still in concussion protocol. He would have to be cleared to train probably tomorrow, which
00:42:27
Speaker
I suppose could happen, but I don't like he might be available. My suspicion is he's not going to start. Yes, sir. I mean, you don't want to rush them back. So that's totally makes sense. I think I don't know. It's tough because we did. I did like some things about that front three that we just talked about. And I do think that Russ Knack works really well.
00:42:54
Speaker
in the midfield, as we've kind of talked about a lot this season. I think that's probably my preference. To see Rusnak back in the midfield. To see Rusnak back in the midfield. Yeah. I also can understand why there might be a little bit of gun shyness after the way the last game went with going with that.
00:43:12
Speaker
kind of an aggressive lineup and you know it's at home though true true um i i think it wouldn't be a concern i would have but i can see it being a concern yeah i could i could i mean i think it's i'm sure it's a concern i'm sure it's going to be debated uh at nauseam
00:43:30
Speaker
Uh, cause, but I also wonder if there is like, uh, you know, we've kind of been talking about this. So you guys talked about it a lot last week is there is a point where you're, you're sort of benching really ideas. And on at some point you can just be like, we're going to keep benching them and see if we can.
00:43:45
Speaker
Like just get something more out of him by benching him, I suppose. Right. But it does feel like you're maybe reaching the extent of how far you can push that before it's like, look, if you're not going to start me, uh, what are we doing here? Right. Especially since he's scoring. Right. Especially since he's scoring. And at some point you do have a, you know, like once, once they're fully healthy, they're there or I don't know, I guess that's more of a theoretical, uh, conundrum. Right.
00:44:14
Speaker
you know, I, it is an issue they're going to have to deal with at some point, but, um, yeah, I, I'm with you though. I think if I, if I have to pick the lineup, I think I would rather have Rusnak back next to Joe Paulo and, uh, and let Morris rolled on or Morris Choo and Rudy Diaz take another shot, especially against a Minnesota team who isn't probably is going to give up possession. Uh, they're, they're probably gonna try to,
00:44:44
Speaker
frustrate you. And if you can stretch them out, that's probably a good way to break them down. Yeah. And I mean, it's not something the Sounders have necessarily had a ton of trouble with this year, but it is something that they have historically had some trouble with, is breaking down those teams.
00:45:03
Speaker
I think that having that creativity back a line is going to be helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's probably a good place to call it. We are going to be doing a question and answer show. Look for that in your feed probably.
00:45:21
Speaker
in a day or so. But yeah, other than that, I suppose it's time to bid you all farewell. Thank you to our sponsors.
00:45:34
Speaker
Full Bowl Wines, Watson's Counter, and a huge thank you to all our paid Substack subscribers. If you are a listener to this show and you want to support what we're doing, I would really urge you to check out our Substack. That's nosudietes.substack.com. And if you want to become a
00:45:52
Speaker
paid subscriber of that we'd very much appreciate it. There are a few perks that come along with that. And those are things that are going to be developing in the coming weeks and months. And I would hope that folks are finding value in that.
00:46:07
Speaker
So, yeah, thank you to everyone who has been helping us out and making this a fun and ongoing endeavor. With all that said, I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lickett. This is no sardietes. Remember, you will never yet alone.