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Nos Audietis, Episode 272: Here we go again
60 Plays7 years ago
This starting to feel all too familiar. The Sounders are now six games into their season, including two in league play, and are 2-4-0 overall. Two of those losses came in their last two games by a combined score of 6-0, and that has made Sounders Twitter and the Sounder at Heart comment section … not a fun place to be.
This week's music: "Legend Has It (Black Panther Trailer version)", Perry Como - "Seattle", RVIVR - “The Tide”, Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia"
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you're looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Want to hear the music from the show in their glorious, full versions? Check out the Nos Audietis playlist on Spotify!
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Transcript
Introduction to Nos Adieres and Sponsors
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Adieres is sponsored by Full Pool Wines. Full Pool Wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nos Adieres since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:00:23
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing. And three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com.
Podcast Hosts Introduction
00:00:42
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this.
00:00:59
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle And the hills the greenest green in Seattle
Episode Details and Context
00:01:14
Speaker
Welcome back to another edition of NOS Adiatus, sponsored by Fullpool Wines, Queen Anne Acupuncture, Verdi Creative Union, and her broadcast partner Bootstrapper Studios. This is episode 272, and we're recording on Tuesday, March 28th, 2018. I am your host, Jeremiah O'Shan, and I'm joined by my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our engineer, Lickett.
Sounders Season Challenges
00:01:32
Speaker
So this is starting to feel all too familiar. The Sounders are now six games into their season if you include non-league play. Two of those are in MLS play and they are 2-4-0 overall. Two of those losses came in their last two games by a combined score of 6-0 and that has made Sounders Twitter and the Sounder at Heart comment section
00:01:53
Speaker
What's the right way to put it? Not a fun place to be. The word panic has been thrown around probably a bit too freely. And while I don't think there's any reason to be totally freaking out at this point, Aaron, I think you would agree that there is at least some reason to be uncomfortable if not full blown worried about the way that this season is starting.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think uncomfortable is fair. I'm not especially worried in terms of the long term. I mean, I think the team will probably be fine. They always are, right? There's tons of talent. A lot of that talent is injured. I think that they know that they have to make moves to address some of the holes they have. But I certainly think it's reasonable to be pissed off about it.
00:02:41
Speaker
I know it's hard balancing the rational response of what I think is a rational response at least of team got hit with a bunch of injuries at once. One of them was to a player that they really
00:02:56
Speaker
it was going to be hard to replace in Jordan Morris, um, quickly. And, uh, you know, they had some really bad luck, just even with minor injuries in the Chivas game. Um, you know, they had bad, bad ish luck, I guess you could say with the Dempsey red card, uh, and, and all of that's conspired to, you know, kind of put them in a hole. Uh, they're terrible with walking and sell LAFC, which we talked about the last time, uh, we recorded, but,
00:03:24
Speaker
They're probably going to be fine. They'll probably be a decent-ish playoff level team until the summer and make a signing that addresses whatever their biggest problems are at the time and be fine down the stretch.
00:03:41
Speaker
a rational response to it, but I also get being frustrated by it. I don't know who you want to blame. I think the thing that's frustrated me is I think that Garth Wagerweig is taking all of the blame, and I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's reasonable.
00:03:59
Speaker
I think the Chivas game, especially, that was a team that was not prepared at all. That was a team that had, with Nico Lodera out, had no ideas and played as though he were still there. And I think we saw the results of how that turned out. They didn't really seem to make any adjustments at all. And it was a horrible result. And I don't think you can blame that on Garth Augerwey. I think that
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah, there are holes in the roster. And there are positions where I wish that he maybe would have done some things differently. But I don't think this is a bad roster. I don't think that he's constructed. The one calculated risk I think he took was wanting to see how Jordan Morris did. And that blew up about his
00:04:48
Speaker
horrendously as it could have.
Clint Dempsey's Red Card Controversy
00:04:50
Speaker
And so if you're in the camp, and I think it's a reasonable one, even though I disagree with it, that thinks this team needed a DP striker and they needed to add that player either last summer or in the preseason, I think it's fair to be critical if you think that's
00:05:09
Speaker
That was the correct course of action. But for me, I think that it was the right decision, although it was, as I said, a calculated risk. It went about as badly as it could have. But I think the process was good. I think it's the thing that made sense to do.
00:05:29
Speaker
there are players at certain positions that are depth players that we've had to rely on and they have not been good. So if you want to be critical there, I think that's fair too. But I think to say we're in this position because Garth Lagerwey doesn't give a shit about the first half of the season or he's being cheap or he's trying to play Moneyball or whatever else,
00:05:52
Speaker
you want to say, I think it's crazy. I think there's plenty of blame to go around. And especially in the Chivas game, but in the Dallas game as well, I don't know that it's really fair to point the finger at him and say, he's the reason that we're in this hole.
00:06:09
Speaker
I'm certainly mad about it. And it is a trend. And I think in 2016, and to some extent last year, it was partially just because of the state of the roster. But we've talked extensively about how the roster was in flux, especially around the margins. And that was sort of a, you've got to take your lumps because the rebuilding has to be done. And I think that maybe some of the frustration and why it's ramped up a little is that
00:06:38
Speaker
I think people maybe thought that we were past this. And we still might
Dealing with Adversity: Player Reactions
00:06:44
Speaker
be. It's been two MLS games. It's crashing out of CCL hurts, especially because we looked so good in the first leg against Chivas when we had a close-ish to full-strength team. And so I get wanting to
00:07:02
Speaker
already labeled this as a slow start. But in reality, it's been two MLS games. Toronto has zero points as well. I don't think anybody's really freaking out about them. Obviously they advanced, so they get a little bit more of the benefit of the doubt, I suppose. But last season, it was a slow start.
00:07:22
Speaker
not because we lost the first two games, it was a slow start, because we were still out of playoff position in June. 2016 was significantly worse, and we had to go on an almost historically good run to even qualify for the playoffs. So I'm not willing to say that it's in that category yet, but I certainly understand why people are frustrated, for sure.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say that if I'm reading the tea leaves right, I think that a lot of what's going on is kind of, for lack of a better term, PTSD from past experiences where it's starting to feel like a broken record, where injuries conspire to
00:08:08
Speaker
slow the sounders start and that snowballs into a bigger thing. Now, I do think and I think if there's one thing that I'm really frustrated by in that in that two game set between Dallas and Chivas is not so much that the sounders lost
Roster Depth Issues and Solutions
00:08:23
Speaker
to Chivas. I think that that's a predictable and in a lot of in the context of understandable result, you know,
00:08:32
Speaker
we can go through the litany of reasons, the first of which was they started the game, I believe, with five starters not available to start. And then they lost two more over the course of the first 30 minutes. And that's, you know,
00:08:47
Speaker
You can build deep rosters in MLS. There's not a lot of times that you're going to be able to miss that many key components, go to Mexico and beat anyone. And Chivas, their record aside, is just not any random Mexican opponent. So that was probably expecting a little much for the Sounders to go down there and get a result. But what was frustrating to me, and you kind of hit on this, was that they looked so bad without Nicolas Ledero.
00:09:14
Speaker
it was and I really thought like I really I really genuinely believe that the way that the roster is built right now should lessen the impact of missing Lidero for a game especially against an animalist opponent like FC Dallas a team who had only won three times in the past or yeah three times in the last 18 games across all competitions
00:09:34
Speaker
And so it's not a great Dallas team by any stretch of the imagination. And again, there were extenuating circumstances in that one. Up until the point that Dempsey went out with that red card, I thought that they were actually looking good. And I went into that game expecting the worst. I didn't actually watch the game live. I had to watch it on tape delay. I was following it along, and I was kind of just looking at the stats. And I was like, oh, this must have been really ugly.
00:10:01
Speaker
But, you know, between the time when they gave up the goal and the time that Dempsey's red card came, they were, I thought, the better team by even a significant margin. And they were a little unlucky, I thought, not to have gotten an equalizer. They had at least three very good chances to find the equalizer. I thought Magnus Wolf-Ikrome was looking pretty good. Dempsey was kind of up to his old tricks and looking pretty good.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then he goes and gets that red card, which we may as well talk about now since there isn't too many things to talk about anyway. But that red card, I think my initial view of it when I saw the initial replay was I thought it was harsh. I thought that he looked like he or no, I'm sorry, I take it back. I thought in the initial view, it looked pretty obvious that he looked like it looked like he hit the guy in the below the belt.
00:10:50
Speaker
uh and and it looked like it was at least at the very least a violent swing uh but then Lickett uh to his credit uh identified the and this replay was shown on the broadcast it just wasn't necessarily focused on uh but he showed the replay that seemed to pretty clearly show that uh
00:11:10
Speaker
Dempsey was trying to free his hand. Now, whether or not that was still violent, whether or not he still made contact, I think that those are things that are a little harder to tell from the video. But the very least, I think that we see a plausible explanation for why he was doing what he was doing. And it made it a little tougher for me to get frustrated with Dempsey at the same time.
00:11:29
Speaker
this is now the second straight start in MLS play where he's gotten himself suspended because of a VAR issued red card and I just think he needs to learn to be more careful and that he just can't let himself get frustrated by people grabbing and pulling and that he needs to be aware that there's like I don't I don't
00:11:51
Speaker
think that it's even argumentative to suggest that if that's just random MLS player in that sequence, nothing happens. But because it's Clint Dempsey and because he has a bit of a reputation, I think he does not get the benefit of the doubt. That's not how refereeing is supposed to work, but it's the reality of the world that we live in where you're
00:12:11
Speaker
where your reputation proceeds you. And so I think that you can both be very afraid that that was a red card and be a little annoyed that Dempsey is not playing smarter.
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah. When I first saw it, I was so mad at him that I was almost like, I want him off the team now, which is obviously a dumb thing to want because it's not possible. But I was just so pissed off, largely because I agree. I think the Sounders have been playing really well since giving up the goal. And I thought that they might actually get out of there with a point, which would have been, I think, a pretty good result.
00:12:54
Speaker
But after seeing that other angle I don't think there was any intent there at all I think he did make contact and one thing that's a perpetual annoyances of mine is when.
00:13:07
Speaker
There's something like that, and there's not a ton of contact, or things didn't go exactly how it seemed, and people want the other player suspended for diving. Just an aside, that drives me crazy. Because I think he did hit him. But I think it was incidental. And I think you're right that any other player, they never go to VAR, most likely. And I certainly don't think that he gets a red card.
00:13:34
Speaker
I think people forget that it's not just the stuff he's done with the Sounders, right? It's not just the original Cup Check, the Red Card Wedding, the elbows and things like that. That's the player he is and has been his entire career. I mean, there were very few players in the Premier League that I think were more universally loathed by fans of other teams than Clint Dempsey because he's
00:13:58
Speaker
he's a dirty player. He definitely can be a dirty player. And so that reputation has been with him for a long time and it is deserved. And that's the thing is that it's not just putting up with him getting the red cards for things he actually does. It's putting up with not having that benefit of the doubt because of that reputation. And it's really frustrating. But I don't
00:14:23
Speaker
A lot of people want him to change, and I just don't see it happening. Because he's what? He's 34. He's almost 35 now, right? I mean, it's the player he's been probably since he was a teenager. And so you take the good with the bad. I think if you want to question if maybe the player he is at this point is worth the bad, that's a reasonable question, even though I was OK with re-signing him.
00:14:53
Speaker
in the off season. But yeah, it's super frustrating to know that he's going to miss a few games every season because of stuff like this. Right.
00:15:03
Speaker
for one reason or another, whether it be suspension or injury or, I mean, and I guess in his defense, he hasn't missed a ton of time for energy or injury. It's been mostly due to suspension or international duty. He's actually been, I feel like he's actually been remarkably healthy for a player who is... Yeah, I mean, aside from the hard tank, that's not...
00:15:27
Speaker
I mean, there's not really anything anybody can do about that. Yeah, right, but that was kind of more of a freak thing than it was a ... you're right, I guess that's a rather large caveat to that, is that he did miss half the season in Jeremiah with a heart issue. But he hasn't had muscle injuries, he hasn't had any ... I'm sure he must have missed a game or two at some point with some sort of muscle injury. But I think it always has been a game or two here or there. Right, it's not a hamstring injury in 2015.
00:15:56
Speaker
But I think you only missed a couple of games, right? Or did he miss extended time? I guess they're right. Did he miss extended time? No, but you said he didn't miss any time. Oh, so you're just well actual-ing me. Yes, I just wanted to be on the record.
00:16:13
Speaker
No, that's fair. That's fair. But he's been, I would say for the most part, he's been pretty healthy other than the most notable absence. And I don't mean to imply he hasn't had any other injuries. But anyway, yeah, I mean, I think that you're right. He's probably not gonna change and it's probably unrealistic for us to hope for him to change. But I do think that he still, he just needs to be aware that there's a target on his back and that the stuff that he used to get away with
00:16:41
Speaker
the little things that, you know, for a long time,
Future Strategies and Signings
00:16:44
Speaker
he, they weren't even, they just weren't even an issue because they were not the kind of thing that just gets caught in the, in the run of play. And they are oftentimes any things they're going to get caught by assistant referees, because it's just these little things that happen. And that's totally the stuff that VAR is inclined to catch that isn't going to be caught otherwise. And I guess I just want him to be a little bit smarter. I don't know if that's realistic or not, but
00:17:08
Speaker
Let's hope that this is at least his one suspension for the year. If he's going to get suspended, it's probably better to have it happen in the third game of the season than the 34th game of the season. So I guess maybe that's a good way of putting it. I guess we can make that assessment next October.
00:17:26
Speaker
But it does bring up this larger point of the depth that the sounders have built. And I will go to the mat suggesting that they have a deeper roster than they've probably ever had, at least when it comes to 1 through 20.
00:17:42
Speaker
But there is limitation still to that, and there are still players that are more important than others. Nico Ledero, I think we were reminded very clearly, is very, very important regardless of the actual goal and assist numbers that he's putting on, which are still good numbers, but that he does a lot beyond that.
00:18:00
Speaker
But the centers are also now looking for a DP number nine, presumably. I don't think that there's any realistic, we should not be expecting that to happen before summer. Today, Chris Henderson was talking to the media and I asked him about that. And he was pretty clearly implying that a summer signing is, if there's gonna be a DP signed, it's gonna be in the summer.
00:18:24
Speaker
But in the short term, there could be players coming in. One of those guys is Diego Capell, who is not exactly a household name, but I think a lot of people know who this is. He's a former. He was actually a very
00:18:39
Speaker
He was very big in the Spanish youth national teams. He only ended up making two senior national team appearances, but he played with Sevilla for a long time and then he's been bouncing around Europe since then. Last year he was at Enderelect. He had two goals and five assists in something like a thousand minutes, which is not a bad
00:18:58
Speaker
Hall, but he's been out of work since August. He came into Sounders training camp last week. He apparently looked pretty good. But then today we found out that he has a hamstring injury, which I guess maybe isn't totally surprising given that he was probably not in great shape when he showed up. But what do you think, Aaron? Is Diego Capell a player who we should be excited or at least optimistic about potentially helping the Sounders?
00:19:32
Speaker
I think that one of the things the Sounders could use is a little more depth at winger. I think that the depth at Stryker is obviously a much bigger deal. We should not be ever in a position where Lomar Nagel is starting games. Ever, ever, ever, ever. We're getting meaningful minutes. And we're pretty close to that right now.
00:19:51
Speaker
And so, but signing Diego Capell does not mean that they can't sign some striker down. So, you know, I think that, and I think that people were frustrated when they saw Capell coming in and saying, why do we have another attacking midfielder? We already have 20 of those. And that's true, we do. But I think that if he's cheap enough, I mean, if he's a TAM signing, I want to know part of it.
00:20:17
Speaker
But if he's cheap enough, he's a slightly different kind of player than Michael Rodriguez and a much different kind of player than Nico Ledero and Magnus Vofay from. He's a little bit of change of pace. If he's somebody that just gets added to the attacking midfield rotation, that's more of a true winger, has a little bit more speed than we have in house already. I think that's a very positive thing.
00:20:44
Speaker
If it's a TAM signing or if it's a signing that precludes us from improving our striker depth in this window, then it's a bad idea. And the problem is that we could sign him and not sign a striker and never know whether or not we could have been able to or whatever. It's one of those things where it's like we don't really know.
00:21:07
Speaker
So I guess there's a possibility we can sign him and never have any idea whether or not it was a good idea. I don't know. But I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if he comes in and he's on a pretty reasonable contract, no. Because I think he gives us another option. Because we have a lot of players that kind of do a lot of the same stuff. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it's also not a bad thing to have somebody that brings something a little bit different to the table.
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess if there's a frustration about it, it's that they, because theoretically they could sign a short term solution at Stryker and still go out and sign a designated player in the summer, like there's nothing that
00:21:55
Speaker
we know that if they can sign Diego Capell, they can sign some other random striker. So if there's like, we know that that's there's wherever to be Diego Capell signs at, there are players strikers available at that price point. Now, are they worth adding? That's another thing that that's worth wondering about. But if they are dead set on signing a DP number nine, it makes sense that they wouldn't want to sign an additional
00:22:21
Speaker
Striker who they would presumably be committed to for any extended for any period of time because that money would be essentially, you know, potentially be wasted that you're adding a fourth, potentially a fourth striker to a roster that
00:22:37
Speaker
You know, like Will Bruin, unless you're signing someone that's better than Will Bruin, it doesn't make sense, I suppose. Or maybe you want someone that's just better than the morning. I don't know. But I don't know, I guess I'm not gonna get too worked up over the goodness or the badness of Diego Capell until we actually see if A, he gets signed, and B, if he's any good. Because we aren't gonna really know that.
00:23:00
Speaker
right away. Certainly. Mauro Rosales didn't seem like a great signing when we first heard like, oh, there's this random guy who hasn't really been playing much recently. And it turned out he was a great sign. Diego Capel probably has a better pedigree in history than he does. So you never know.
00:23:16
Speaker
Right. That's a very fair point. If I remember correctly, Marlon Rosales' claim to fame at that point was a gold in the Olympics as a U23. So that not exactly like he and people knew who he was, but he was he was certainly not any more thought of then than the Diego Capellas. That said,
00:23:38
Speaker
One of the names that's been thrown around as a frustrating player to have missed out on is Sean O'Couley, who signed today with someone. I had to do quite a lot of clicking around to figure out what this team was that he was signing with. It's apparently a second division team in Sweden.
00:23:54
Speaker
What I thought was interesting was that on Transfer Market, it's listed as a loan from New York City FC, which I don't know that Transfer Market has the inside info on this, but it would add an interesting little detail in that it would suggest that he wasn't actually free to sign anywhere else in MLS, that if you signed him, you would have had to go through New York City to do it.
00:24:20
Speaker
I can't imagine that he's actually on loan to a team in Sweden, but maybe he is. I don't really know. I'll just put this out there. Would you have liked to have had Sean O'Couley? I wouldn't have minded it. I think there's a very good chance he's better than Lamar Nagel.
Transition Challenges from USL to MLS
00:24:42
Speaker
And I think that the key thing is that I think I'm absolutely in the camp that they absolutely have to sign another Shryker that's a decent no matter what in this window. And I think the key thing is that I'd love to have somebody at Wild Ruins level that has a different skill set. I don't know that Sean and Coley, I do know that Sean and Coley is not at Wild Ruins.
00:25:04
Speaker
level, but he does have a different skill set. And so I think that that part is nice. But I think, I mean, the reality is that this is his second go in MLS, and it just hasn't worked out for him at this level. He was great in USL, but I mean, we've all watched us too. We know that USL is not great. And so not great quality. USL is great, but it's not great quality. And I think that for a lot of players, it's just hard to make that jump up.
00:25:30
Speaker
Um, and, and I'm just, I don't really see any reason to think that, that he has to the point that we should be lamenting letting him get away. Um, I would have been happy to have him. I think that there are probably good reasons that we don't, um, and I don't, you know, I don't want to speculate on what they are. Um, whether or not it's, he wanted to go play somewhere else. That's entirely possible. Um, you know, if you're not going to be a player in MLS, that's.
00:25:54
Speaker
making a ton of money. Why not use your athletic peak that has a pretty short window to go live somewhere else and experience something new? I think that that's an underrated thing, especially for these guys that are kind of fringy. The chance to go live in Europe for a little while is pretty cool and not an opportunity a lot of people have. Maybe you didn't want to come back to Seattle, whether it was
00:26:18
Speaker
Um, you know, he, he still had some bitterness over, uh, not get getting more of a chance in his first time around here or what, I don't know. Um, maybe the sounders just weren't interested. Maybe they have another target in mind who knows, but I just, he's not at a level that.
00:26:35
Speaker
I feel like it's worth being super upset over. I like him. I would have been happy to have him on the roster. I wish we had signed him instead of Lamar and Eagle in the first place. Had that been an option, but yeah, it's just not something that's going to tear me up at all.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I suppose that's actually a good point that if he was, if he was really available, I mean, he was no, seemingly no more or less available back when the sounders signed Sean, signed Lamar Nagel. Uh, and for whatever reason, the sounders decided to sign Lamar Nagel instead of Sean Ocoli. So it's, it's worth asking. Uh, it's worth wondering if, uh, he was either not actually available, not actually interested, or if the sounders simply just didn't rate him. And I think all of those are.
00:27:23
Speaker
viable things that would keep him from signing here but yeah I'm with you I think all things being equal I probably would have liked to have had him on the roster I think he would have been an interesting piece but I don't know that he was I don't I certainly don't think he's gonna be the difference between the sounders being
00:27:38
Speaker
you know, MLS Cup contenders and not being MLS Cup contenders this year. And I guess in that context, it's probably not worth getting too worked up over. But anyway, that's probably a good place to call this segment. We'll come back. We'll take some of your questions. You're listening to Nos Adietes.
00:27:57
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:17
Speaker
Located in the Queen Anne neighborhood of Seattle, you can conveniently book an appointment online today at QueenAnneAcupuncture.com. Welcome back to NOS Adiettis. We have some questions, not a lot, but I'm sure enough to be wonderfully fun and I'll, oh, and we'll let Lickett take it away. Brian Mossermas, when do you panic early in the season?
00:29:45
Speaker
personally panic early in season, I'll be pretty nervous if we have two or fewer after four. Two or fewer points I presume he means. Yeah, I mean, I don't know panic is we've said I think I feel like we've said this on the show every year.
00:30:03
Speaker
And I think panic is the wrong word to use. And I don't know, maybe it's our show's fault that this term gets thrown around the way that it does. I mean, I would definitely, if the centers don't win or don't look good against Montreal this weekend, I think there's plenty of reason to be concerned. Because they're not going to have Dempsey, they aren't going to have
00:30:24
Speaker
Victor Rodriguez, Osvaldo Alonzo isn't going to start. So you can certainly make an argument that they will get healthier. They will have games where they're healthier than they are this week. But they seemingly have plenty of firepower to win a home game against the Montreal Impact. Granted, just beat Toronto FC last week, so it's not like they're a bad team. But I don't know. I think there's legitimate reason to be concerned if they don't look good this weekend.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair, but I also think it's how you define what constitutes a bad season. I think that if you're not going to be happy with this season, if the Sounders aren't competing for the supporters shield late into the year, then you probably want to start literally panicking pretty soon if things don't turn around.
00:31:17
Speaker
If you're happy with making the playoffs as like a two or
Fan Expectations and Reactions
00:31:24
Speaker
three type seed, I think there's still a ways to go before you need to start getting super concerned. My biggest thing is that I just hate watching shitty soccer, especially when it's a team that I care about.
00:31:40
Speaker
For me, it's not going to be panic as much as frustration. And that frustration is just, I don't want to watch. I don't want to think about it. I don't want to talk about it. And that sucks because I love the sounders and it's a big part of my life to do those things.
00:31:55
Speaker
And enjoy them and so and it has not been enjoyable to talk about the Sounders this year at all so Yeah, I mean it's it depends on how you define what constitutes a successful season and if you want the Sounders to compete for the supporter shield the window of How long they have to turn it around is much much shorter probably, you know April I would say if things haven't gotten much better by then then
00:32:20
Speaker
by the end of April, then there's no way they're going to be doing that. But the nice thing is that the team that I think everybody expects to be the supporter shield winner again also has zero points and nearly is about a goal different, Joel, as the Sounders do. So maybe not all hope is lost. But yeah, if we don't look good against Montreal, I'm going to get pretty pussy about it.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's the thing is that it's not that the Sounders have a bad team, and I think there's every reason to expect that whatever they do this week, they should be a little bit better the week after because they have another bye after that. There's a lot of buys fit into this early part of the season. They don't play again until the 13th of April, which is kind of crazy to think about that. They'll play four games through April 13, but
00:33:06
Speaker
Anyway, they, so they should be healthy. You like to think that they would be pretty close to full strength, as close to full strength as they can be by April 13th. And so who knows, maybe April 13th is, I think that's probably a good, you know, if you're worried about the, if you're worried about, if you're gonna freak out, if they're at zero points after the April 13th game, I mean, that's a legitimate time to just really, really like start losing your,
00:33:33
Speaker
stuff and be really angry about the state of the team. Because there shouldn't be too many excuses by that point. They should be well rested. They should be reasonably healthy. I don't know offhand where that game is. Who are they playing on the 13th? Do we know offhand? I guess I should have looked that up. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I think the fourth game of the season. Fair point. Fair point.
00:34:02
Speaker
Uh, uh, that's, uh, April 15th is at sporting Kansas city. Uh, let's see, Zach Lewis asks, can we play just play for draws until the summer transfer window? And how big of a transfer fee will this club pay for our top tier striker?
00:34:21
Speaker
No, we shouldn't play for draws. That would be terrible. I would rather lose every game than play every game for draws. In terms of the transfer fee, I think it depends on who they're looking at. There are actually some pretty decent strikers in a pretty decent age range out there that are going to be on a free this summer. They're typically in leagues where the wages are going to be high and there's someone to be in demand, so I don't know if
00:34:50
Speaker
if those are realistic signings, but they could sign a very, very good player and not pay a dime in a transfer fee. But I mean, there's obviously a limit. I'd be pretty surprised to see them go over, I don't know, 12 million? Does that seem? I mean, I don't think they're going to be playing Ezekiel Barco transfer fees. I don't think that that's likely. Maybe, I don't know, maybe they're going to steal a bunch of Roo Martinez away from Enter, who knows, but I doubt it.
00:35:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think, I think 10 million, probably the upper 10, 12 million might be pushing it. My suspicion is that somewhere in that six to $10 million range is probably the high end of what they would be willing to spend on a transfer fee.
00:35:36
Speaker
But and I realize that there's people out there that are going to be frustrated that the Sounders aren't like literally spending as much as they can realistically spend in their mind. And I guess whatever Atlanta is spending is what the Sounders should be spending or whatever the high spending team in the league is spending is in some people's mind going to be what they should be spending. They're going to feel like the Sounders are being cheap. I don't.
00:35:58
Speaker
I don't think that's the right way to look at it. I think you probably want to look at it a little bit more holistically. I don't think it's bad that the Sounders want to get the most bang for their buck and not just go out and spend a bunch of money and get the flashy assigning they can. I think that's a reasonable goal. I don't have any problem with the Sounders wanting to run a reasonable business as long as they're also trying to win games at the same time and trying to not just win games, but be one of the best
00:36:26
Speaker
certainly one of the best teams in the league. And so far, I think they've done a pretty good job of that. Yeah, and I think, too, another key thing to understand is that, you know, Atlanta is paying some pretty big transfer fees, LAFC is paying some pretty big transfer fees, but
00:36:47
Speaker
That's also part of their business model. Atlanta is not buying players that are 26 or 27 years old. A lot of what they're paying for is the potential returns on those players. And that's just not something the Sounders have really delved too much into. Nico Lodero is a very, very, very good player, one of the best players in the league. And he cost a fraction of what Barco did.
00:37:09
Speaker
I'm probably saying his name wrong, but whatever, I don't care. I'll care once we play them. It's just a different approach. The Sounders are not really investing huge transfer fees into young players in the hopes that they'll be able to sell them on later. That's absolutely what Atlanta is doing.
00:37:29
Speaker
And that's not bad. It's not a bad thing that Atlanta is doing that. It's just a different way of doing it. And in terms of on the field results, I don't know if it matters because the players that Atlanta is getting for what they're paying are not really all that much better than the players the Sounders are getting. I mean, I know a lot of people love to talk about Miguel Almeron and the Sounders letting him get away and letting him go for $75,000, but they made a decision to go for Nico Ledero over Almeron. And as good as Almeron is, I think I'd rather have Nico.
00:37:59
Speaker
Um, so I don't know. I just think, I think that people get tired of players on their team. Uh, and they see other players, other teams doing different things and they're, and they want that experience. And I think that's natural to a certain extent, but if they can get a striker, that's as good of a striker as Nico Ledero is a midfielder. Um, I'm going to be very happy with that. Even if they don't pay, you know, $25 million for them.
00:38:25
Speaker
Okay, shots fired asks, how long is Smetchers leash after two cup appearances? I'm already hearing noise of an international replacement if we lose another home game. I don't know where we got that from it. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he's getting that from random chatter on online and I don't dispute that there are people out there that are
00:38:48
Speaker
calling for Schmetzer's head already. The question is, at what point do the Sounders actually do something about it? I mean, I think Schmetzer has a pretty long leash, and I would be very surprised if he wasn't given till the end of the season, or till the point where, like, if the Sounders were to miss the playoffs, and I guess it wouldn't be totally shocking to see him fired at that point,
00:39:18
Speaker
But I don't think that the Sounders are looking to get rid of Brian Schmetzer. I don't think Garth Legaway is sitting around wondering who his next hire is going to be as coach if Brian loses a couple more games.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I think he's got at least through the end of the season. And I think if they did miss the playoffs, I think it would also depend on why they miss the playoffs. I mean, if they miss the playoffs because Nico Ledero gets hit by a bus and Clint Dempsey murders a guy on the field, they're probably not going to fire him because it's not really his fault that Nico Ledero got hit by a bus. It would be his fault that Clint Dempsey murdered somebody, though, just to be clear.
00:40:02
Speaker
No, I mean, I think he's got, I think that it would have to be they miss the playoffs this year and have a slow start next year. And that I think is the point that, but I think if you make two MLS cup finals, um, back to back when one of them, uh,
00:40:17
Speaker
And your team down the stretch last season was playing as good as anyone in the league that you've earned a little bit longer. There are people that wanted Brian Schmetzer fired after the MLS Cup last year. I don't think that it's worth taking their opinion seriously.
00:40:36
Speaker
And I'll add that I think that there's a separate issue here, which is, and I hear a fair amount of this, and I think that it's becoming more and more fair to question, you know, there's some questions about Brian Schmetzer's tactical setups, and I think that those are certainly fair questions, and I think it's a fair standard to hold him to, and there are fair questions to ask him, and I think that to the degree that he,
00:41:03
Speaker
that the Sounders were not set up well in Chivas. And I think you can argue that they maybe weren't set up particularly well in Dallas either. Those are things that are perfectly fair to question Schmester about and to call them out on. But if the question is more practical and more at what point are we really going to see another coach, I think the answer is not anytime soon.
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's okay to have, allow coaches to have a bad run of form, just like it's okay to allow players to have a bad run of form. Uh, it's cause it's going to happen even to the best ones. Just a weird to start thinking about that when you've been to the cut final two years in a row, you already think about if they should fire him. Oh, well. Uh,
00:41:52
Speaker
I mean, I agree that it's a, it seems like a silly question to be fielding. But I guess you can ask it, uh, drone six street seven asks, uh, how much should the annual slow start affect how we view Garth's work as GM of
Garth Lagerwey's Management Analysis
00:42:05
Speaker
soccer? Um, yeah. People really hate.
00:42:08
Speaker
this argument, but I'm going to make it anyway because I think it's the right one. Saying the team has lost its games early in the season for the last three years and that being the entirety of the level that you look at it on, of the context you consider, is not smart and it's not a good way to analyze anything.
00:42:32
Speaker
I think that there are things that you can be critical of Garth of. I think that last season, people were very unhappy that there were open roster spots. And we were having to not have a full bench. And I think that's a reasonable thing to be critical of. This year, people aren't especially happy with the fact that we haven't replaced Jovan Jones.
00:42:57
Speaker
I think not. I think getting Waylon Francis or a player of that level and having, you know, knew who grow into the role was the right decision. But, you know, sure, that's fine. But I mean, realistically, last year we had a slow start because every single right back on the team got hurt at the same time. And so we had to play Jordy Delham at right back and we had a lot of Tony Alfaro at center back and it was a nightmare. I mean, we were missing a ton of players.
00:43:26
Speaker
And there's nothing Earth can do about that. This season, Jordan Morris blew out his ACL in the first game of the year. And that's caused kind of a ripple effect. The biggest game of the season so far, Nico Lodero hurt his foot before the game.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's just, and people hate that and I get it. They hate hearing about luck and they hate hearing about things like that. They hate hearing about process over results, but it's the only correct way to judge things. I think it's fair to look at individual decisions that Gart has made and how they contributed to
00:44:08
Speaker
slow starts or what people would consider subpar seasons because we weren't in the supporter shield race or because we bowed out of open cup earlier or whatever. And I think it's totally fair to look at things in that context, but to say, well, this is the third straight season that we didn't start the season well, and therefore Garth doesn't care about the first half of the season or
00:44:32
Speaker
you know, we've been lucky because he's not building the roster the right way or whatever. I just think it's such a shallow way of looking at it. And it's so, and I just, I feel like I defend Garth a lot on this show, but I just think that the sounder's fan base or segments of it are really unfair to him. And I think that there have been people that have hated him since the day he got here. And I don't know
00:44:53
Speaker
whether it's because he came from a team that at the time was, I think, a pretty bitter rival, or he's just an outsider or what. But there seems no inclination to give him the benefit of the doubt. And when people have been baying for an MLS Cup for years and years and years, and he brings that MLS Cup to the team in his second year, and they go to another one the next year,
00:45:19
Speaker
to just look for any excuse to want to get rid of him is just crazy to me and it doesn't...
00:45:26
Speaker
To me, it sort of betrays a, you know, just that there's not really any inclination to give him a fair shake. And it's bizarre. And I think there are plenty, like I said, there are plenty of things you can be critical of him for. And we should be critical of him for those things. But I don't think that the sum of those criticisms is nearly so, you know, severe as a lot of folks seem to.
00:45:52
Speaker
You know, and I will say that I understand the frustrations with not competing for a supporter shield. And I think that Garth to, you know, I think to his detriment, sometimes picks language that is overly careful and
00:46:09
Speaker
unnecessarily careful. And I think that those frustrations, I think, are borne out in times like this when he says things like, I like the team that we've built. And I think it's disrespectful not to, you know, I think we're disrespecting the guys that were so good for us the last two years. And, you know, he's kind of made these very defensive statements, he's kind of thrown around this term panic, he's kind of guilty of throwing around this term panic. And I do think that
00:46:35
Speaker
those things all roll the wrong way and I definitely get it. But also in his defense, I'll say this, that I don't think the Sounders have ever valued the supporter shield over MLS Cup. I frankly don't think any team in the league has ever valued the supporter shield over MLS Cup. MLS Cup is what is recognized as the league champion.
00:46:58
Speaker
Whether or not fans consider the supporter shield to be a better accomplishment, and I think we can probably all agree that in a holistic European way, the supporter shield is a bigger accomplishment than MLS Cup. The reality is that if you're not setting up your team to succeed at the end of the season,
00:47:17
Speaker
then you're doing a disservice to the team that you should be doing everything you can to set your team up to compete for MLS Cup. And one of those ways of competing for MLS Cup is being competitive in the regular season and potentially even winning the sport of shield because that gets you home field advantage and that helps you.
00:47:34
Speaker
But if you really believe that signing guys in the middle of the season is a better way to, you know, you feel like you get better quality players in the summer and those players are better positioned to help you win MLS Cup. I think that's so far a strategy that has borne success for the Sounders now.
00:47:51
Speaker
That said, I think that there's room to criticize them right now. I think that they maybe have been too careful when it comes to filling this third DP spot. And as a result, they're now going to go three windows where they theoretically could have added a DP and they haven't
00:48:12
Speaker
I you know why that is is certainly something that we don't have full access to maybe it's that they aren't willing to spend the money maybe it's that they aren't finding maybe they're being too careful about the players they want maybe they haven't really wanted maybe they really honestly felt like they were better off without doing that
00:48:29
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it is weird to be talking about a guy who has taken two guys that have taken us to Elmer Scott back to back and have put us in a position to be very competitive for the season as if they are in danger of losing their jobs. It is very weird, I have to admit.
00:48:54
Speaker
moving on ash v armstrong asks speculation on open cup play at cheney or still at starfire i i mean i i don't think that we're gonna see any open cup games at cheney i would be i would be very surprised if we saw open cup games at cheney partly because they're midweek games it's probably a i'm guessing that it's going to be tougher to schedule mid-week games in the summer once the
00:49:21
Speaker
rain years are playing and so there's some scheduling conflict there but I just don't think that the sounders are inclined to purposefully move games away from Starfire until now once there's a state and once the sounders have s2 has their own stadium in Tacoma I would not be at all surprised to see
00:49:40
Speaker
open cup games played there but I mean I hadn't honestly even considered the possibility of open cup games being played at Cheney and maybe I'm underselling it but I I don't think that's gonna happen it would be kind of cool I guess I don't I mean I kind of like I I would like to I would like to I'll say this I'd like to be able to say farewell to Starfire at open cup like I hope that there is like it would be kind of a it would feel kind of wrong if just suddenly the first open cup game this year was played at Cheney and we didn't know anything about it
00:50:09
Speaker
until it was scheduled. Okay. And the final question, Ken Weiss 2020 asks, if there was a 32nd flavor of Baskin Robbins and what would it be and would you eat it? This is the only answer is pralines and dick.
00:50:33
Speaker
I feel like that requires an encyclopedic knowledge of the current 31 flavors at Baskin-Robbins. I haven't been to a Baskin-Robbins in a long, long time. 31 flavors, bro. Come on. They always, but they, I mean, I realize it's called 31 flavors. They always actually carry 31 flavors. Is that like one of their sticks? It's not the same 31 flavors. That's not the same 31. No, they change them out. No, they change them out once in a while. At least it's changed out in the last 10 years. I don't know.
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was like 17 the last time I went to the best. I'll say my flavor would be bacon and crack and no. Bacon and crack. Wow. Yeah, that sounds. That doesn't. It sounds bad. No, I wouldn't eat it. So I wonder how well that would sell. Bacon and crack. Sounds pretty good. I mean, yeah, it might. Probably really well for a little while. But I can't see that one staying on the show.
00:51:29
Speaker
Not super st- although these days, who knows, the FDA, I don't even know if the FDA is doing anything anymore. It's a very stand-down kind of time. Yeah, they don't actually exist.
00:51:40
Speaker
of this. Is that it? Look at it. That's it. All right. Well, another show in the bag. And sorry that there's been so much time between episodes lately, but that's the way it goes sometimes. That's the world of No Study at This. You will get episodes when we say you get them. But thanks for sticking with us. I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off. Oh, wait. I guess I should say thank you to our sponsors, because they're important.
00:52:08
Speaker
Of course, these are our sponsors, Volt Pool Wines, Queen Anne Acupuncture, Verdy Credit Union, and of course, our broadcast partner Bootstrapper Studios. I am Jeremiah O'Shan, signing off behalf of Aaron Campo and Lickett. This is No Saudi Yetis. Remember, you'll never yell alone. Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's roll on, Columbia roll on.
00:52:38
Speaker
Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll on, Columbia Roll on.
00:53:10
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!