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Episode 93: Ring Awareness
76 Plays6 years ago
This week the boys are chatting GCW's Jimmy Lloyd's Halloween Frightfest, the main event of Halloween Havoc 89', AEW, pro wrestling current events and more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Greetings
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, thanks for tuning in to Predetermined to Pro Wrestling Hangout and Happy Halloween to our beautiful listeners around the world.
Gary Hart's Historical Failure and Halloween Content
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm Garrett Callender and with me, as always, Gary Hart presents, Derek Halpin. Gary Hart ain't presenting this show as long as I'm around because Gary Hart failed his team 30 years ago. Did he though?
00:00:27
Speaker
Well, kind of. He didn't hold on to a towel hard enough. Well, yeah, that's true. He said it was wrapped around his hand really tight. It wasn't. We'll get to that in a bit.
Halloween Wrestling Events and AEW Review
00:00:38
Speaker
I love Halloween editions of this podcast for obvious reasons, but man, we've got a lot of stuff to talk about this week. You watched a whole Halloween themed pay-per-view.
00:00:52
Speaker
I brought up a retro Halloween match for us to check out. It's kind of historical. Plenty of wrestling news and another AEW show for us to review because this was an important night for them. Can't forget about that. Man. And I'll probably rave a little bit about the movie The Lighthouse somewhere in here.
Movie Talk: 'The Lighthouse' and 'Hobbs and Shaw'
00:01:11
Speaker
Oh, I'm sure. Put yourself over, dude.
00:01:15
Speaker
Well, I'm putting the Lighthouse over. I'm putting Rob Pattinson over. I'm putting Willem Dafoe over. You're putting yourself over. You want to let everyone know that you saw a movie. I see movies every week and I rarely mention them. That's not true. I didn't bring up. We did. Half of the half of the podcast episodes we've done have been about you watching Hobbs and Shaw. That barely counts as a movie. That's an event, Derek. That was a once in a lifetime event.
00:01:43
Speaker
Oh man. You know what else is an event just for the record.
International Audience Growth
00:01:49
Speaker
Our goddamn music.
00:02:25
Speaker
I set them up and I knock them down. I'm doing everything. Getting it out of the way this week, just getting right into the show. Top of the show. Remember when I said thank you to listeners all around the world? I feel like we don't give enough shout outs to our international listeners.
00:02:44
Speaker
I think we should give a shout out to all of our listeners, but especially our international listeners this week. Cause how did you find this? I don't know. I'm terrible at promotion. I know you didn't find it cause of me. Well, you, you texted me last week and said that you were alarmed because you thought we weren't getting any downloads on last week's episode, but there was an update going on with where our episode or where our podcast is hosted from. And I'm assuming that eventually the downloads started rolling in.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, since AEW it seems people seem to be more interested in wrestling and we have more listeners than normal.
Encouraging Global Listener Engagement
00:03:21
Speaker
Is that true? That is true. I've seen a lot of downloads pop up in Australia, Germany. Every time there's a pay-per-view in Saudi Arabia, we get a couple downloads there, which is exciting. Well, we'll find a few seconds to talk about Saudi Arabia, I'm sure. If you're listening in Saudi Arabia, thank you. Appreciate it.
00:03:47
Speaker
Thanks for giving us the time of day is how I'm putting it. I don't know if that's how you're putting it, but I feel honored that somebody would take the time to listen to us bullshit and talk about pro wrestling. The UK, Japan, Italy. We have listeners all over the place, and it's crazy to me. That seems insane. We'll probably never speak to these people other than right now. But guess what? We're best friends. You guys are hanging on the couch with us. This is great.
00:04:15
Speaker
I know that this is the holiday season from me, Halloween Halpin, and if you could do a couple things for us. The first one you know is coming. If you haven't already, it's coming! It's coming! Is that still funny? Is the Shane McMahon getting his back broken noise? Is that still funny? Well, give it a try. I haven't heard it in a while.
00:04:46
Speaker
it sounds like a little bit like the grape stomping lady hell yes it does yes it does you nailed it
00:04:56
Speaker
You know, she's stomping the grapes to make the wine and then she falls off the platform and really exaggerated pain noises. Since we're just bringing celebrities into wrestling, we should get that lady. She sells like a motherfucker. I can't even imagine what she would do to the V-trigger. Believe it or not, my girlfriend had never seen that video before and I showed that to her a couple of weeks ago.
00:05:19
Speaker
I have to assume she was delighted. Absolutely. But, uh, Halloween season. Do us a couple favors if you haven't already.
Fan Fiction and Podcast Promotion
00:05:28
Speaker
If you're an international listener especially.
00:05:31
Speaker
There's a couple things you can do for us, but go over to iTunes, give us five stars, leave us a bomb review, tell us what you like about the show. And if you do that, you can suggest something for us to talk about on the show. We'll check it out, we'll look at it, we'll watch it, we'll listen to it, we'll examine it, and break it down for you in an episode after you leave that sweet review. The other thing, and this is almost as important, Garrett,
00:05:57
Speaker
If you're an international listener, fan fiction in a different language. No.
00:06:05
Speaker
I don't think the fan fiction thing is getting over. As was made obvious by the fact that when we had a fan fiction discussion on our social media, the wrestlers, the performers didn't seem to enjoy that exchange that they were tagged in very much. But they did seem to like my gift reply of me not approving of the exchange. So that was the answer to that.
00:06:33
Speaker
But, if you are an international listener, if you take time to leave us the review, the other thing you can do for us, tell your friends about the podcast. If you have friends like Pro Wrestling, if you think they would be a fan of this podcast, let them know, because nothing would make me happier. Nothing would tickle my innards more. Ew. Then finding out that we have a large following in a country I have never visited.
00:07:00
Speaker
If we blew up somewhere, not here in the United States where we are currently living and have resided our whole lives, that would be hilarious to me. And I want that to happen. So if you're in Australia, Germany, Japan, if you're listening to pre-determined pro wrestling hangout, tell your friends about it. Don't you think that would be hilarious Garrett? I very much would like to have an enormous international following, you know, kind of a,
00:07:27
Speaker
You know, I basically want to be as popular as Cheap Trick in every other country but the United States.
00:07:37
Speaker
So if you can get us a live album in Budokan, just like Cheap Trick, we gotta start with the word of mouth. We never tell you to spread the word, and maybe that's because we're terrible broadcasters. I don't know. Derek, I like that you did that though. That's, you know, I've never told anyone to tell anyone about us. Maybe that's where this is all going wrong.
00:07:58
Speaker
Well, I just, I, there's something like, there's all sorts of weird things that go through your mind when you start up a podcast, which is that how many of my friends that I know actually give a shit about the subject that I'm going to be discussing on this podcast. And the answer for us is only a few.
00:08:19
Speaker
and are they are real friends anyway? That's a fair question. We have people, we do have a couple people who listen to this show who are our friends that don't care about pro wrestling. Thank you, Brad. And I'm sure there's a few others who just like hearing the sound of our voice. But I wouldn't, look, I'm asking for your help.
AEW vs WWE: Creative Preferences
00:08:44
Speaker
we would love to blow up in a place like Canada, out of nowhere. We got our friend, Lowell, up there. We haven't mentioned his name in a few episodes, so hey, Lowell. But, yeah. I think Lowell and JD have been spreading the word in Canada, though, because more listeners have been springing up across the country. Or are we just earning it the old fashioned way? There's no way that's possible. You don't think so?
00:09:09
Speaker
You're in Saudi Arabia. If you're excited for Crown Jewel and you like this podcast, I want to understand why. But yes, please spread the word. Tell them about tell them to find predetermined. You know where we're at. We're on Spotify. We're on iTunes. Are we still on Stitcher, Garrett? We are probably still on Stitcher. I don't really check that, but I think it still gets put there. That has never been a good source of downloads for us.
00:09:37
Speaker
Well, I've been pushing for YouTube for over like a year now. Well, not very hard because it's not on there. Well, I can't control that. You think I can? I'm a dumb dumb. We need people to run this. All I know how to do is watch wrestling, talk about it, and then edit the words we say to hopefully be pleasing.
00:09:57
Speaker
Well instead of breaking down the logistics of running a half ass pro wrestling podcast let's actually talk about some pro wrestling because as usual we are recording this on all Hallows Eve on a Wednesday. As usual we are recording this on Halloween.
00:10:14
Speaker
Well, I got the wrong or the wrong way around We're recording this on a Wednesday which happens to be all Hallows Eve and we just got done watching AEW unless you were off watching fucking Monday Night Raw on Hulu or NXT or whatever it is that you're into your WWE mark Hey, that was last night
00:10:37
Speaker
Don't be a dick about it. I needed to put some wrestling in my eyes and hey, you know, I heard there's this show called Monday Night Raw. It's kind of an up and coming thing. Like not a lot of people watching it right now feel like I'm right in at the beginning. They working out of the Hammerstein ballroom right now. They wish. The Manhattan Center. Whatever the fuck. They were actually in St. Louis.
00:11:02
Speaker
Oh, is that the part that mattered most to you? Well, you know, I got to see a picture of the Blues coach with Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan. So I saw that they dressed up a couple of people like Chicago Cubs baseball players and had them get demolished.
00:11:18
Speaker
In the ring? Or just out the parking lot? Yeah, that was the thing that happened in the ring. Well, I'll go ahead and tell you, I didn't make it that far, Derek. I got through the first match, very much enjoyed it, and then I think they kept trying to push the king's court on me, and I think I text you, Derek, did you know they got new announcers on the next run? Yeah, it's been that way since they did the fucking brand split again. And I have a feeling we probably even talked about it.
00:11:45
Speaker
I don't even know if we did. But if you put a gun to my head and said, what's this white man's name? I would not be able to tell you that man's name. He did. I would probably call him Chad and then get shot in the head. But it's a hell of a last word to have. Yeah, no, I haven't watched Raw in weeks. I haven't watched WWE at all in a couple of weeks.
00:12:12
Speaker
man I gotta tell you I did look at social media trying to see how they used my boy Kevin and I don't even think he made an appearance on raw this past week and I don't know how the fuck that happened considering he was involved in a major segment the week before don't know what's happening there
00:12:29
Speaker
But, uh, there is news, supposedly, that, I guess, I guess, I don't know if it came out today that, you know, Hunter Hurst Helmsley is going on record and saying that more main roster talent is gonna be making its way to NXT. So, I, I hear that NXT has some great things going on right now. I know about the Finn Balor turn. I heard that he was on fire tonight again. But, uh, I'm pretty brand loyal to AEW right now. And I told you that.
00:12:58
Speaker
And the more that I watch WWE and then watch AEW, I just kind of realize that's the show I've been waiting for and it's here. And there's no reason for me to complain about the show that I don't love as much because this one's over here for me now. So I actually deleted, or I canceled my subscription last night, Derek. Did you really? I did, I did. And then this morning they announced a women's match at Saudi Arabia. And I think that's because of what I did.
00:13:28
Speaker
You think, oh shit, Garrett's not subscribed to us. He subscribed to every wrestling fucking media outlet. Well, I jokingly said to you last night that this is the way we're going to win back the fans for the WWE. Brock Lesnar, Kane Velasquez, they're in the middle of the ring in Saudi Arabia. We had a third person. It's the fucking man, Becky Lynch, and she kills both of them.
00:13:53
Speaker
and I told you that they would probably stone her to death for that. And then I canceled my subscription, and they're like, well, don't let that happen to Becky. Send Natty out there. We can afford that. She's had a good run. That's what they said. She's had a good run, and she deserves it. What a way to go. They presented that like it was a treat for her, probably. I mean, it is cool. It is history. Natty, think about what the honor, I mean, good lord.
00:14:22
Speaker
Good Lord, the number of people who are gonna be, dude, it's a middle of the afternoon pay-per-view in a country with a lot of controversy. I was, so a lot of times when I'm at work, I don't know if anyone else does this. I sit there and I have- I go to the bathroom and jerk off. Wow, very revealing that your mind went there. No, I'm sorry, you know, it's just, you're getting paid, it feels good. Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
Sorry, that was crass. I shouldn't have done that. Think about that, Bruce. Think about that. White Claw everywhere, Derek. It is all over my computer. It is all over the floor. It is all over me. I just gave myself a headache from laughing so hard. I am kind of pissed at you right now because all my stuff's wet.
00:15:11
Speaker
Why are you mad at me? Because my lens to my glasses look like the fucking AEW camera after Jon Moxley spit all over it. For those who aren't in the know, Bruce would be Garrett's father who occasionally listens to the show. I just thought that was a nice time to point out that yes, you make inappropriate comments sometimes on here and it comes back to haunt you in the real world.
00:15:41
Speaker
You can literally sum up WWE, what they are and what their business model is with like four things. And those four things are WWE network subscriptions, Saudi Arabia, Brock Lesnar, and Disappointment. That's it.
00:16:00
Speaker
Can you say, am I leaving something out? I don't know, it sounded like you were filling in a really hilarious Mad Libs I was ready for you to read. I mean, I guess WrestleMania, yeah, I can't leave out that part of the business model too, because it's like their most recognizable whatever. You mean that show that I go to every year where I watch people boo Roman Reigns out of the building? He might actually get cheered this year, so it might be worth going. Yeah, because I'll fucking be there getting that guy over.
00:16:27
Speaker
wearing your vest? I'm gonna be the guy with one piece of paper that says Roman section.
00:16:36
Speaker
Um, yeah,
Unsubscribing WWE Network for AEW
00:16:38
Speaker
I, I, the thing is I don't want to do what some people will do and I don't want to make exaggerated claims and be like, Nope, I'm done with WWE forever. That's outrageous. We're going to be talking about WWE on this podcast for the rest of our lives forever. We chained ourselves to this bullshit and we're going to live with it. Even when I took my hiatus from watching WWE,
00:17:04
Speaker
like over 10 years ago. Like, I still kept my ear to the ground. I was still reading the dirt sheets. I was still getting spoilers because I wanted to know what was going on and whether or not I was missing anything good. A lot of times I wasn't. I'm with you. Now that I have AEW in my life, why would I sit around and feel frustrated at the end of a show about what could have been or what should have been when I, they're giving me what I wanted. And I called this when you asked me
00:17:32
Speaker
What was your specific question you said if I had to watch one show for the rest of my life? If you could only choose one current wrestling promotion, you can never watch anything else, which would you pick? And I said AEW. And you seemed surprised. Well, it seemed early, but I think after what are we, like four episodes in, five?
00:17:58
Speaker
Uh, yeah. I think this was five. I think they've made it very clear to me that they're making the, you know, the show I'm excited to see, uh, the show that I've had in my heart all these years, what we hyped it up for long enough. The entire first year of our fucking podcast was basically us laying the groundwork for this as a possibility. I mean, we didn't put in the actual work. Oh, we put in the groundwork, baby. We were down there paving the roads. People know about the show.
00:18:29
Speaker
That's how I know you're excited. When that voice comes out, that means you're in a good mood. I think my thing does make me sad is I know, like I said, NXT is putting on a good show on the other channel tonight.
00:18:48
Speaker
I mean, I would occasionally in past weeks flip over NXT for like 30 seconds at a time to see, huh, what am I missing? And then flip back to AEW tonight. That didn't happen at all. Cause when I wasn't watching AEW, I was flipping over the world series for happening and then coming back to AEW.
00:19:04
Speaker
I had a real fear today. Not really a fear. I wouldn't care because you're allowed to have other passions outside of the fighting that we watch. But I was really concerned that I was going to be the only one watching AEW tonight and thought you might be watching the World Series, which I would have not held against you.
00:19:23
Speaker
Garrett, I can do both, and it's not that important to me, I just like checking in a little bit. But, uh, baseball season's coming to an end, and that's another thing I like, so I'm a little invested. But no, AEW takes top priority right now, as far as things that I watch on television.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah, Derek, they crowned new tag team champions tonight. The first ever. They did and I was like getting real excited during that match. All I was thinking about during the main event, yeah, the main event, we finally got to see the finals of the tag team tournament, SCU versus Lucha Bros. All I could think about the whole time was, God, SCU just feel like they have a new energy to them.
00:20:08
Speaker
Absolutely. And do you think that there's the combination of Scorpio Sky and Frankie Kazarian is the right combo to go with for this? A hundred percent. I mean, I was never a huge Kazarian fan. I feel like that guy has just been nailing it the last couple of weeks. Same with Scorpio Sky. Like he has kind of been the MVP of this tournament.
00:20:30
Speaker
I think if I was going to have one complaint, one minor bullshit complaint, they pissed me off a little bit because they started the main event with like 15 minutes left in the show. And I've watched other AEW episodes where there was less at stake in the main event that got like 25 minutes. And in my mind, I'm thinking like, well, fuck, is this another situation where this could be a, you know, a time limit draw? And they go out of their way to tell you, they're like,
00:20:57
Speaker
Well, if this goes over the time left on the show, we'll just get the result after the show and I guess you'll see it on social media. And I'm thinking you guys better not do that. This seems way too fucking important to be popping up on social media tonight at midnight.
00:21:14
Speaker
When we were kids and watching the Monday Night Wars wasn't there one of the channels that like cuz for now NXT goes like 10 minutes over time every week Wasn't there one of them when we were kids that would go over time as well? Yeah, Nitro did Nitro used to do the overrun a lot I wish they would do the overrun again just because all they're doing is playing the show again afterwards and
00:21:40
Speaker
I don't know if there's a strict programming lineup they have that runs into the night, but I totally agree with you. I wish they would. But when I was a kid, Tony Khan may have negotiated a specific deal with TNT where they're like, no, you got to be done right at a nine, Tony. I would have been like, hey, get Tony Schiavone out there. And he'd be like, yeah, we would call these matches and then we would drop you right into a law and order already in progress.
00:22:06
Speaker
Nobody gives a shit about it. It's a rerun. It's 10 o'clock at night who gives a fuck give the people 10 more minutes of wrestling
00:22:15
Speaker
I thought the match was pretty damn good. I don't think it was like the best match it could have been and I was surprised that it ended on a roll-up and I was surprised that SCU won. Were you? My jaw was on the floor. I actually sit there mouth agape after Scorpio Sky got that pin. I'm not surprised that Scorpio was the one to you know, get the pin but
00:22:39
Speaker
I mean, if I had to choose those two. But yeah, I was fucking shocked because the lucha bros are so over, but they're also so over that you got to build a new tag team. And this isn't a new team. We've watched them fight the Bucks a thousand times at Ring of Honor. But you feel like people are already invested fully in lucha bros. They don't need the titles. SCU having the titles gives them something to play with.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, at this point, lucha bros have been on enough big shows with the Young Bucks for these AEW shows at least that their highlight reel is enough to get people very excited. If you weren't watching Ring of Honor, SCU is new to you. And I think they're doing a good job of just looking energized, looking like they're not fighting the Briscoes every single week. I am still digesting the show that we just watched.
00:23:29
Speaker
Part of me thinks this is the best show they've done in the time they've been on TV because I felt like they got so much accomplished with this show.
AEW Storytelling and Highlights
00:23:39
Speaker
I felt like there was great wrestling matches. I felt like there was great vignette segments. I thought there was great storyline development. This show had it all.
00:23:52
Speaker
See, I think you and I may have not necessarily disagreed, but you seem to really love something that I wasn't 100% sold on. The Cody vignettes? Yes, specifically the one tonight. I loved it. I absolutely fucking love those.
00:24:12
Speaker
I like that they're keeping Cody as the drama wrestler. You know, the guy who's going to give you a great story. And as I was thinking about it, I got very excited for him and Jericho. Just thinking about how good of a story those two are going to be able to tell in the ring.
00:24:27
Speaker
But him and Shivani talking for that extended period of time was just like giving us a bunch of not necessarily exciting exposition in a pro wrestling show. And we're not used to that. We're used to people just yelling in the ring. So was it something I'm just not used to yet? Or is I don't know.
00:24:49
Speaker
I feel like, and maybe I'm projecting here. Some of that felt like an old WCW bit, not necessarily corniness or outrageousness, but I remember there used to be bits like in WCW where they would show guys in limousines talking for a few minutes about like the plan or what the fuck they were going to do or like, or like maybe not to this dramatic of an extent.
00:25:16
Speaker
But I do think the exposition was necessary. And again, there's so much lineage here and so much history that they're playing off of, you know, the whole story that Shivani told Cody about, you know, his time with Dusty and Willie Nelson and the pool and telling old stories and it being both funny and heartwarming and it's building up this angle really, really fucking well.
00:25:43
Speaker
I mean, I get why you're not used to it because you've been watching a very particular brand of wrestling, two particular brands of wrestling over the last five, six years. You've been watching WWE in all its cheesy glory, and you've been watching New Japan, which when they do do exposition, it's really fast cuts and it's in a different language.
00:26:06
Speaker
you know
00:26:25
Speaker
I was watching the bit with Shivani and Cody in the in the limo. I was thinking there's just guys staying in the ring waiting for this to be over WWE style. Oh, I was showing this on the video board. Go ahead. Yeah. No, was the crowd getting restless then? Were they seeing the video with us? Because I felt like I started hearing the crowd chanting shit during that video towards the end.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't there. So I don't I don't know. But that being said, like, I'm not knocking it. It is it felt new to me. It was something I'm not used to is getting like, you know, almost a cinematic just scene of dialogue, just two guys having a conversation, not in front of like 10,000 people.
00:27:08
Speaker
Well, to me, and I guess it's just your preference on what parts of pro wrestling you like more, but to me, adding that level of importance in the exposition is awesome. I will say that that women's match I fucking loved between Shana and what is it, Sheeda?
00:27:24
Speaker
Yes, I wrote both of their names down because I also had to make a note like her name is not Shana. It's Shana Shana and Shida, right? Hiraku Shida See I my the first thing when I saw them come out to wrestle each other I was like fuck I'm gonna get their names mixed up because they're very similar
00:27:43
Speaker
I think JR was having that problem too. He gave up. He was probably thinking, he probably thought they were fucking with him in the back. We're going to see if JR fucks this up by putting two talents he's never seen before with similar names. We're three months away from him just being JBL. Why would he do that? God damn it.
00:28:07
Speaker
How did you feel about Besties doing the Rick and Morty spot with Orange Cassidy? I was very curious to see how they were going to pull off this Rick and Morty thing. It didn't bother me that they were incorporating Rick and Morty into it because it's a brand new TV show. We need to get new eyes on the show. And honestly, if Rick and Morty fans tuned in and watched AEW.
00:28:28
Speaker
I could see them enjoying it, maybe not specifically that bit. I actually, my sister and her husband tuned in because they're big Rick and Morty fans. And I'll go ahead and tell you, they were not impressed. They weren't. They were not impressed. So it didn't work. It did not work for people. You built it up like maybe they'll care and then you have firsthand knowledge of it not working.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately. It worked for me, though, when I realized we aren't gonna see the cartoons interacting with anybody. We get Rick, Rick, and Morty. I felt a little bad because I think in my mind, as soon as I saw them come out in those costumes, we're like, oh cool, they're giving best friends the big show spot. Where the big show has to dress up in something goofy to promote something that's coming out that they're promoting on the show. They made big show dress up like Pee-Wee Herman.
00:29:20
Speaker
What's funny is Chuck Taylor was probably like, yeah, whatever, put the costume on me. And Kenny Omega was probably in the back like, ah, I wish we could have worn the costumes. Kenny had his own costume tonight. Which JR fucking hated, I think. He's like, the best wrestler in the world shouldn't be dressing like a fucking jackass.
00:29:43
Speaker
I just, here's the thing, I've put over the commentary for AEW so much and I'm standing by that, but there are definitely times where you can tell JR is, he's doing that nervous thing where like, like somebody's like looking to the left and to the right and they're saying their opinion and they're kind of hoping that people beside them agree with them and that's not happening. So you can tell when something happens that JR like is not nuts about that he's hoping that
00:30:09
Speaker
He can get people to switch sides. That's not happening, man. It's making me cringe a little bit when a pop culture reference happens and then he says something because he clearly doesn't know the pop culture reference and then Excalibur has to awkwardly step in and reference that pop culture thing without stepping on JR's toes.
00:30:32
Speaker
like the David S. Pumpkins jacket on Jericho. I felt like there was a moment in the match, or not the match, but during the show, where there was a moment where JR realized, holy fuck, there's been a lot of super kicks from every fucking person on this card. Maybe that was me thinking it on some subconscious level and then thinking, well, if I'm thinking it, you know JR's thinking it.
00:31:01
Speaker
where it's like, how does this make the young bucks unique if that's their whole gimmick, but everyone else on the roster does it too? All I can think about when he thinks things are stupid is like looking back on like times when people were dressed as Pee-Wee Herman and shit, like things that he was there for some of it. That doesn't mean he was fucking for it though. Yeah, but he did. It seems like at AEW he has a little more license to let us know when he thinks stuff sucks.
00:31:30
Speaker
Well, he's holding back more than I thought he would if that's the case. Oh, for sure. Like if he really just had free reign to comment, he hasn't said too many negative things. You can tell when he loves something a lot and you can tell when he is really having to pretend to like something.
00:31:49
Speaker
Well, did you like that Sammy Guevara Hangman page opener and post-match promo from Hangman? Holy shit! Hangman said swears on TV, Derek! He did, and it's gonna continue to get that reaction... maybe forever. Cause it's been so long since somebody could genuinely put angst and anger and frustration into a swear word on wrestling television.
00:32:15
Speaker
Well, and keep in mind, the promo that it showed before that with Jon Moxley, he said, fuck. And they bleeped it out. He yelled, fuck it, Tony Khan. Behind closed doors. This is the attitude era, Derek. Cowboy shit, man. We just need swears and angry people. I don't need sexism. I can just have them swearing, and that feels just as good as the attitude era.
00:32:37
Speaker
Hashtag cowboy shit. Ugh, when he said that, I think my eyes got big and I loved Hangman just a little bit more. The story of this podcast is the story of you little by little falling in love with Hangman, like desperately, passionately. I'm outside his window holding a boombox at this point. You know how thick he is, right?
00:33:02
Speaker
I've seen those thighs, that guy's got thick legs. That is a thick man. Did you watch BTE this week? I didn't watch BTE this week. So there's a bit in this week's BTE where he's walking through a hallway and Cody walks out of his dressing room and has this moment where he's like, hey man,
00:33:21
Speaker
Are you jealous that we all have dressing rooms and you don't? Because if you are, you can always come into my dressing room. You know, we're part of the elite. We're the elite together. If you're thinking about not being the elite, maybe don't do that because I did it once and it sucked. And Hangman has like, no, no, we're good. But there was a little vibe to it where, holy shit, maybe one day he is going to be the guy that turns heel and betrays the elite and goes after the belt when one of these guys has it.
00:33:50
Speaker
That would put him over the top, don't you think? That would give him his identity and make him a star? I think it would. And I think if Cody wins this belt from Jericho, that Hangman might betray him and be the next guy in line. Well, a couple of questions for you in relation to that. A, do you think that Cody is going to take the belt from Jericho?
00:34:10
Speaker
No. You can scrap that idea then, Garret. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm just having fun in my head here. But it really... I don't know. It seems like it would just make too much sense to leave it on Jericho for a little bit. But also... Yeah, what if Hangman's the one that cost Cody the title? Ooh.
00:34:29
Speaker
Derek with the ideas. I have ideas. The other question I wanted to ask before we lost it, how do you feel storyline wise or logic wise about Tony Khan making the Kenny Moxley match a lights out match? It doesn't count against the record. It's unsanctioned.
00:34:48
Speaker
My initial reaction is, how many of these fucking unsanctioned matches am I going to be seeing? Because I've already seen three and you've been a company two months. You think it's being overdone? No, because they're doing this storyline where Moxley is like, this is bullshit. Because of this, I'm going to fucking kill this guy and it's your fault.
00:35:09
Speaker
I agree with you. On the one hand, it does feel like they've gone to that well a little too many times this early, but at the same time, Moxley's making it work. And yes, he did spit on the camera. A lot. I really do like that. I mean, they are going hard into making him their stone cold.
00:35:52
Speaker
How many times did he say time limits my ass?
00:35:57
Speaker
I felt like the camera caught him saying it like six times and probably said it a few more times after the show went off the air. Yeah, it sounded like he said this is bullshit as well. Well, you know what, man? If you're in the main event of an AEW show, times is hard. You might have 12 minutes. You might have seven minutes. You might have 30. We don't know.
00:36:17
Speaker
So we got to talk about this. Um, kind of want to wind down the AEW talk cause we do have Halloween themed things to get
AEW vs WWE: Ratings and Fan Loyalty
00:36:24
Speaker
to. But before we do that, um, Garrett, did you find out the, that, uh, when smackdown last week was on FS one because of the world series, they, uh,
00:36:41
Speaker
had a drastic drop off with the ratings. A lot of people didn't tune in. So much so that technically AEW beat SmackDown on the ratings last week. I mean, you can say that, but to me, even as a fan of AEW, that's unfair to WWE. They got moved to a secondary channel on a Friday night on a World Series game. I don't put that on WWE. Well, for sure. But there were other things that were running up against the World Series too.
00:37:11
Speaker
Like, I think it's interesting when this comes up, because yes, but what demographics are tuning in for the World Series? Apparently wrestling fans. Pretty soon, I don't know if you knew this, Derek, but the Nationals are gonna be a new faction in WWE, and they're gonna take on somebody at war games, probably. Well, I have the game in front of me, and currently the Nationals are up four to two, so they're about to also be World Series champions from the looks of things, but... Oh, man. Why are you making excuses for WWE?
00:37:42
Speaker
They have like the most loyal audience on fucking television and you're telling me they couldn't find the channel for FS1? I mean, I found it. I turned it on initially.
00:37:54
Speaker
So what's the deal? I'll tell you what the deal is, Derek. I turned that on. I watched the first 15 minutes. I was a little bored. And I opened up Twitter and saw AEW post, hey, don't have anything to do on a Friday night? We're showing an extended version of last week's dynamite. And I said, really? And flipped the channel and rewatched a wrestling show I had already seen. So
00:38:23
Speaker
I mean, I listened to a little bit of the exchange between Bryan Alvarez and Melter this week about that whole thing. And yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with it not being on its regular channel. But it's interesting to me that that's all it takes. Because they've been hemorrhaging viewers every week that they've been on TV, which isn't unexpected.
00:38:43
Speaker
But you're talking about, like with Raw and SmackDown, the only things that they really have had going for them, which is something they pointed out, was that there's a loyalty sense. Like the only thing that's keeping Raw at its ratings total is this habit. That it's Monday night and Raw's on, so we're gonna watch.
00:39:04
Speaker
Well, if all it takes for SmackDown to drop down that fucking low is to be like, okay, it's not on this channel this week. I mean, they advertised it. They advertised it all over the place. Now, maybe you can make the argument some households don't get FS1, but I don't know, man. To me,
00:39:28
Speaker
there's WWE has so many things going against it right now between the two K 20 shit. Did you, there was another wrestling story out. I guess, um, there were a bunch of people that they did like shows. I think it was in Puerto Rico. Did you hear about this? No, is this WWE? Yeah. Like they, I mean, that's not uncommon. I think it was Puerto Rico. I'm sorry if I'm getting the country, but they did a show and I guess a bunch of people didn't appear.
00:39:55
Speaker
like that were scheduled to appear and the show was like an hour less than it was supposed to be. Between that, between 2K20, between them hemorrhaging people on television and then the Jordan Miles stuff this week. With that T-shirt. They can't buy good PR right now. That's before you get into the fact that everybody seems like they're mad at Seth Rollins.
00:40:24
Speaker
It really makes me respect John Cena and Roman Reigns when I see Seth Rollins be the champion. Because they took the criticism like champs. Oh, it turns out those guys are fucking bulletproof. It takes a very special person to be WWE champ, and I don't think Seth Rollins has it in his heart. He just isn't cool. How much do you think it fucked him up hearing Jim Ross say maybe one day he'll be as over as your girlfriend?
00:40:54
Speaker
Oh, you know he punched a hole in his wall. That's a guy that looks like he swears so much under his breath in his car. But it's funny because if Becky's there, she's like, what's that supposed to mean?
00:41:06
Speaker
I mean, that is a shitty thing to say because she's super fucking cool. But like, what do you mean? Like, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think Ross was throwing shade at Becky. I think she's the most over person in WWE. I think, I think the interesting thing about it is how much does that chap Rollins has asked because all that's happening on his watch. Well, he should be happy for his fiance. They're engaged, right? Yeah, they are engaged, I believe. Well, he should be happy for her, but he should also work harder and make me care more.
00:41:38
Speaker
And if he heard that, he's just like, fuck you, Garrett, fuck you. Do you have anything you wanna say about the Jordan Miles situation and all that controversy? Have you been following that closely? I did. You seem like the right kind of guy to address this issue. We all know that WWE released a bunch of pretty shitty t-shirts for the newer NXT people. They just gave up on the shirts and released a shitty Candace shirt, a shitty shirt for everybody that's just the name.
00:42:07
Speaker
I've had shitty shirts for everybody for like a year. These ones are like an exceptional level of bullshit though, where they didn't try. Like they went to preloaded fonts. Like I'm pretty sure that Cameron Grimes is just his name and whatever the default font is on Microsoft Word, but with a top hat on top of it. Times New Roman? Yeah. Helvetica. Let's get into some fonts.
00:42:37
Speaker
But no, the shirt they released for Jordan Miles essentially looked like a black caricature. It looked like red lips and his name was the teeth. I think their justification for it was what? Like Jordan Miles is all smiles, so they gave... I don't know. Whoever designed it...
00:43:01
Speaker
fucked up, whether it was intentional or not. It seems so impossible for that to not be intentional, but from what I read, it also was never released, but the fact that it was ever even produced to send and be like, is this cool with you is fucked up. Absolutely. But at this point, even if that was a fake thing and it never ever happened,
00:43:28
Speaker
The fuck, it's so believable that it did happen. Like if anybody is arguing like Jordan Miles shouldn't be pissed about this, like this, he probably didn't even, it fucking could easily have happened. Look at the shit going on this week.
00:43:43
Speaker
I just thought the thing that was so interesting about it was that it went the, it went the extra step to where he was tagging Vince McMahon and Triple H and tweets on Twitter, like calling them out. And you've never seen a guy in a non storyline role actively in the company criticizing his bosses.
00:44:03
Speaker
It went that far. He has room to do that though. He has every right to be pissed about that. Oh, I'm not saying he doesn't, but I'm just saying it's wild to think that, like I said, with all of the bad things that they have going on right now. I mean, that's before we get, again,
00:44:20
Speaker
I don't even think I brought up the fact that they've got another Saudi Arabia show this week, which people still don't like. And it's fucking hilarious that if you're on Facebook and they post anything, doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter the context, if they make any post or reference to any Saudi show, you see those little three emojis, which are the top three emoji reactions that the thing's getting, all of them have an angry face.
00:44:46
Speaker
Every single one of those fucking posts has an angry face because people are so... And again, it's fucking blood money. It's what it is. And the fact that they've somehow to this point still gotten away with that...
00:44:59
Speaker
I mean, maybe it's slowly, something's changing. Well, you know, everything's changing right now and we're finding out a lot of bad things about a lot of people we used to like. Is there anyone that does bad shit that you're able, like, are you still able to listen to a Michael Jackson record?
00:45:16
Speaker
Like what do you have any bad people in your life that you're a fan of that you're able to continue with? I think this is a topic we should be able to do an entire episode on if people want to hear it. I don't know how much our listeners want to hear us delve into controversial topics because it seems like they like the light hearted stuff. But you and I have talked at different times about maybe doing an episode about Chris Benoit. But that's heavy. That's going to be a heavy fucking episode. And that's why I was asking you to me.
00:45:47
Speaker
Well, you seem hyper stressed about doing controversial topics. So I'm not going to put it. That's why I was for as a test run. That's why I was hoping that you would set the boundaries for that Jordan Miles discussion. No, I think that that's an OK thing to bring up because it's fucked up and they did a stupid thing and he should be pissed. But what you were saying there a minute ago, like about do I listen to a Michael Jackson record? Do I still listen to a few Michael Jackson songs? Sure.
00:46:16
Speaker
Have you completely abandoned all Michael Jackson songs? Yeah, like the, this is funny that we're just like in the middle of all this bringing up the, the Me Too movement. Um, I pretty much have abandoned a lot of people on this one. Like when this shit comes out, like I used to watch the movie The Graduate a couple times a year or like once a year. I have not seen a Dustin Hoffman movie since all this. I haven't seen a Kevin Spacey movie. Fuck him. So is it the art or the artist?
00:46:46
Speaker
Now it's a kind of both. Is it? I mean, how can you? You know what? Now that I'm in this conversation, I'm like, I just want to talk about something else. Yeah. Look how uncomfortable you're getting. Well, I'm not uncomfortable. I'm like, this is a pro wrestling podcast and this is a conversation for something else. We do other we do other topics on this show all the time. If you don't want to talk about that, we'll talk about later. Point being.
00:47:11
Speaker
I don't know if I have an answer for that. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Do you feel uncomfortable when Hulk Hogan walks out? Yeah, but probably not for the same reasons everybody else does. Why do you feel uncomfortable? Because you saw him get a BJ while he talked to his kid on the phone. No.
00:47:38
Speaker
I just to me and I've brought this up before I just find it interesting that Like I don't know what Hogan would Can anybody truly apologize? I don't know if he's apologized and Honestly, even if he did like if Hogan released a statement tomorrow apologizing nobody would accept it anyway
00:48:00
Speaker
So I don't know what there's left to accomplish in that regard. I'm more upset that they have to keep bringing back people that are old as shit to try to push a product now.
00:48:14
Speaker
Like I get frustrated seeing Taker, I get frustrated seeing Hogan, I get frustrated seeing Flair. Like I think that company relies too much on nostalgia and it's passed in 2019. And they're not focusing on the future of that fucking company like Shorty G. Oh, fuck.
00:48:35
Speaker
I don't want to talk about WWE anymore. Let's talk about GCW. Yeah, we're 48 minutes into this. This is what happens. You bring up a company that pisses you off and you start talking shitty about it and then you feel kind of bad and then you move on to something else.
00:48:48
Speaker
Well, I didn't watch all the GCW pay-per-view, but I was getting a fuck-ton of texts from you about it. Oh, man. This was GCW Jimmy Lloyd's Halloween Fright Fest. Then Fright was crossed out and fuck was spray-painted above it. It was Jimmy Lloyd's Halloween Fuck Fest. When did this happen? This was Monday night. They went up against Raw. That's right.
00:49:12
Speaker
Right. Monday night was my night off from my was my night to do stuff because I had the next day off from work. So I was out doing things. I really like that the last couple of GCW paper views they've released on a Monday night.
00:49:27
Speaker
because it's filling the void that Raw left. I mean, it's something I would have done regardless of whatever night it was happening, and it's a night that I would gladly be free on. That makes sense. But the show opened with Jimmy Lloyd. It was a weird vignette of him cutting hair. Yes. I wanted to talk about that. That was really fucking weird and uncomfortable. Did it make you think that he was a cool dude? Like, he's probably just as uncool as Seth Rollins, but in a different way.
00:50:00
Speaker
I felt the same way about Jimmy Lloyd since I walked, since I watched him walk out in the back of that Foreman Mills a year and a half ago. Open in match of that show. Like what is, what is a Jimmy Lloyd? Jimmy Lloyd's a different boy, Derek. Jimmy Lloyd's a different boy. Honestly, I see Jimmy Lloyd as like a Kevin Owens type wrestler.
00:50:24
Speaker
He is a guy. Don't say that. No, Jimmy Lloyd is a great fucking wrestler, but he loves doing the deathmatch stuff. If he quit doing that and just focused on wrestling, I think we could see him in a Kevin Owens position. That dude's super talented.
00:50:42
Speaker
That's a hell of a compliment, Garrett. I don't know if I see Jimmy Lloyd in the same light. I like Jimmy Lloyd, and I also, he, right now he's like one of the GCW mainstays. You know, he's a guy that feels like he's been there a long time. He seems like a guy that, if he beat a Nick Gage, that the people would be like, holy fuck, Jimmy Lloyd did it. Maybe it will be Jimmy Lloyd. I mean, hey, he just got a show named after him. Who else gets shows named after him besides Gage and Janela?
00:51:10
Speaker
If that was, I mean, the funny thing is that I, that's a thing that the GCW lets happen that I wish other companies let happen more often. I think that'd be a great thing to steal. Like going, if I can revert back to WWE just for a second, you know how much I hate the fact that they have those themed fucking pay-per-views like Hell in a Cell or TLC or Extreme Rules or whatever.
00:51:35
Speaker
Like, if you're gonna try to do a themed pay-per-view, let a fucking pay-per-view be themed after a person on the roster. Like, let them be like the host of whatever show that is, and at least gives you an opportunity to put that person over and put the spotlight on them, and it does something. You just got me very excited for the idea of an AEW pay-per-view booked by Joey Janela. Well, that's what I'm... I would love to see AEW do something like that.
00:52:06
Speaker
Again, I just think if you can think of something different and try something new, and this is something GCW's been doing, yeah, I love it. They also did something this week that I was very happy about. You don't tend to get a lot of story out of GCW, and for the first time, honestly, I feel like since I started watching, I'm getting a real story being built right now between Ricky Shane Page and Nick Gage.
GCW Storylines: Nick Gage and Atticus Kogar
00:52:35
Speaker
And they introduced a new wrestler named Atticus Kogar. Kogar? He came out and fought Matt Tremont. It turned out he is in like the Ricky Shane Page clan, whatever Ricky Shane Page's group is. But he came out in a shirt. And then during Nick Gage's match with Ruckus. He came out in a shirt. Well, he came out in a shirt with like Ricky Shane Page on it. That made more sense in my head than it did. This guy came out in a ninth pair of slacks.
00:53:05
Speaker
Only when your Jake Hager does the significance of the shirt play a role. Which tonight, we didn't even mention, he showed up in a fucking fantastic polo and broke Gold Dust's arm. Did you see the dent they put in that fucking limo? I was fucking concerned. I was concerned, Derek. You know it's bad when MJF is concerned.
00:53:27
Speaker
MJF had a look like, ah, fuck. And I don't know how you gimmick just that part of the car. I don't know either, but back to Ricky Shane Page, who, by the way, I fucked Ricky Shane Page. Yeah, so he stole Nick Gage's belt. He went to Japan with it. And we're setting up for Nick Gage versus Ricky Shane Page for this title. In the middle of his match with Ruckus, which already had some weird problems, because in the middle of that match,
00:53:56
Speaker
fucking teddy heart showed up like not part of the show just at the show and the way this show was set up the bar was their entrance ramp the ring was pushed all the way up against the bar so they actually entered through a door walking on the bar
00:54:15
Speaker
And out of nowhere, there was fucking Teddy Hart with his cat, and he was wearing what looked like $100,000 worth of jewelry, and he was just very clearly standing on the bar, in frame with the ring, and he was very distracting, and they kept trying to cut away from that.
00:54:33
Speaker
And this match, even though I really love that they brought back out Atticus Kogar and the lights went out. He blew a fireball. It distracted everybody. Lights came back on. Ricky Shane Page came in, hits Nick Gage with a chair. Really cool that they included, you know, some story in here. But one thing they did that I did not completely love. The Nick Gage ruckus match ended a no contest.
00:55:00
Speaker
which doesn't happen. That does not happen in GCW. That happens in WWE. And it was one of those things where it was like, oh, fuck, I love that they're giving me some story in this indie promotion. But then I was like, ah, maybe WWE is right. Is that the only way to tell a story is not let a match have an end? It's a typical way of continuing the story, but
00:55:28
Speaker
Yeah. Some other highlights. This first match, Blake Christian, Lucky 13. Great. Second match, Chris Dickinson versus Jordan Oliver, which good Lord Chris Dickinson beat the fuck out of Jordan Oliver's chest. This was what? With his fucking hand. This was one of those like PCO Walter situations where this dude's chest was so beaten up by the end of it that I respected him more.
00:56:00
Speaker
Like, oh, you can take a beating. I like you. But then halfway through this card, right before intermission, we got a match that I was very excited for, but had no clue how fucked up it was actually gonna be. And that was Schlack. There is no God. There's only Schlack. And Effie.
00:56:23
Speaker
Oh, boy. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm very, very happy you suggested that I watch this match because I had a lot of fun watching it. You wanted a bloody match for Halloween, and you got a fucking bloody match for Halloween. I got a match that started off with Effie and his goddamn spiky jacket, using that as a weapon and placing it on Slack's face and punching it into his fucking skull. God.
00:56:52
Speaker
Effie is such a fun character, and it almost feels like he has this need to prove to me that he's super badass. And I'm like, dude, I get it. You're super badass. Stop. I texted you the other night. I said, I feel like Effie's thing is that there's like a stereotype around him or whatever, and he's trying to show like that's fucking bullshit. And I told you,
00:57:13
Speaker
I would hate to be the toughest guy in the prison yard the day that Effie walks into prison because there's no question in my fucking mind that Effie is going to try to kill that guy. He's such a tough motherfucker and he's so much fun to watch. I can't get enough of Effie right now and seeing him do these death matches is like he got hit in the back of the head in this and everywhere he would land there was just an enormous pool of blood.
00:57:42
Speaker
I have to bring up my favorite spot in this match because I don't know if it was a botch or if it was intentional.
00:57:49
Speaker
There's a moment where Slack goes to do either, like, it was like a fucking cradle pin. And he ends up just driving Effie's neck and head into the mat. And it looked like it hurt so fucking much. And it looked so fucking brutal. And I know that G Raver was on commentary.
00:58:13
Speaker
but I don't know who was with him, but his exact quote was, that was unexpected and that was fucking violent. And as soon as I heard that, I lost my shit. Because like I said, I don't know if there was something else that was supposed to happen. It just looked like a creative way to snap a dude's neck. Would you say that this match was more intense or Nick Gage versus Effie? Oh, I wasn't in the room for this one.
00:58:41
Speaker
So I don't know. It's a different palpable feel like it's different when you see fucking F.E. Dropkick a bundle of light tubes in the gauges face and you're 10 feet away. I mean, this looked fucking violent. There was glass. There was the what what the fucking what do they call it? The board with the spikes on it. Oh, the yeah, those little I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but those little plates with all the spikes. Yeah, fuck those things.
00:59:10
Speaker
God, and they punched him into, like, Effie's arm. God, this one was fucked up. Where do you see Effie going? Where does Effie's career go from GCW? I have no idea.
00:59:23
Speaker
Like I love what he's doing right now, which is he's establishing that you can think of. I mean, cause I mean, the thing they're really pushing is that, oh, like if he's gay, but he's not like, he's not just like the gay wrestling stereotype. Like he's actually a good wrestler and he's also kind of a badass. Kind of.
00:59:44
Speaker
I would say, like, and what's funny is when you talk to him afterwards and he's so nice and fun, but then when you're watching these death matches where he's just gushing, I mean, there were moments where when these dudes were bending down, the amount of blood just spurting out, like from their blood pumping, was disgusting. I wanna know what happened. Why is this, at this stage in your life, is this something that gets you going?
01:00:09
Speaker
Like you said, I've seen everything else. Are you coming to terms with that? Yeah, you're right. I go to a lot of concerts. I used to go to a lot of hardcore shows and things that were very aggressive. There's a chance you might get hit in the middle of these shows.
01:00:28
Speaker
I think I like that punk rock vibe to the GCW show where I mean throughout this show I watch multiple people get thrown into the crowd and it made me realize like I should have been more ready for Shane Mercer.
01:00:42
Speaker
I think there was a really surreal moment during this Schlack Fe match where while it's happening and while they're fucking destroying each other's bodies and they're bleeding everywhere, there's a guy right next to the ring wearing a Rowdy Roddy Piper shirt. And I had the out loud say to myself, Schlack and Rowdy Roddy Piper had the same job.
01:01:04
Speaker
where those two worlds are technically the same job. Rowdy Roddy Piper was a professional wrestler and so is Schlack. Who do you think was more over in Japan?
01:01:17
Speaker
I don't know, but that got brought up during the match was like, I'll never forget when we were at Karukian Hall and Schlach's music hit. And I'm just like, that's a weird moment to reminisce. Just everything I've heard about GCW's weekend in Japan is that everywhere they went, Schlach had the longest line of any wrestler on the card, no matter where they went. I don't think historically love monsters over there. That's true. He is a guy that looks like a pro wrestler.
01:01:49
Speaker
He looks like a pro wrestler. He looks like something that could fight fucking... I don't know. He looks the part, man. That's why we talked before about Bruiser Brody, how popular he was over there. I saw
Teddy Hart's GCW Appearance
01:02:02
Speaker
a video. Somebody had modded fire pro wrestling to do an exploding barbed wire death match between Schlack and Gigi Allen.
01:02:11
Speaker
I think I saw a clip of that. And the Gigi Allen one, they had all of his tattoos, right? He was only in a pair of tidy whiteys and leather boots.
01:02:25
Speaker
What else did you like out of this, Jimmy? What are we calling it? We call it Fright Fest or Fuck Fest? What's funny is the show was hashtag GCW Fright Fest, but they never stopped referring to it as GCW Fuck Fest. I wonder if maybe fight TV had an issue with putting fuck as the title. So if you go to fight TV, because I use your account to watch this match and
01:02:51
Speaker
I downloaded the app onto my phone and it was funny because I don't know how you encrypt the fucking font that you use to like put the description into the show. They had fuck and then they had little hyphens through each letter and fuck fuck fest. So they were letting you know that like we're not condoning the usage of the word fuck but it's totally fuck. That's
01:03:16
Speaker
The other two matches I definitely want to bring up on this show. Alex Zane versus Rich Swan. Just picture in your head those two flippy motherfuckers having a match. That's what it was. It was excellent. You were gushing about Alex Zane the other night. Dude, this is just where I'm at right now. You know how sometimes I just find a wrestler and I'm like, this is the fucking man. I. Ronda Rousey. I am.
01:03:44
Speaker
You're not living that one. I like that. Yeah, that one's like she's so good. I don't you heard of her. No, but with Alex Zane, this guy truly feels like the future of pro wrestling. Like he is the guy I'm looking at. I know I've said this on here 100 times at this point. He's the man. That guy is going to do big shit. I can't decide where in my head he's going to end up. He would be awesome at AEW, but I can also see him being awesome at like a New Japan America.
01:04:14
Speaker
He did a spot in this onto Rich Swann. He got into the balcony and he did a running flip and basically did a senton while jumping out of the balcony landing onto Rich Swann in the ring. Jesus. I do need to bring up though at one point Teddy Hart after, what was it?
01:04:34
Speaker
I think it was after the Nick Gage match, he got in the ring. And I don't know why we keep giving Teddy Hart a microphone at these GCW shows so he can get in the ring and tell me how good GCW is. Because I know. I believe it. Like, I may have even known. Yeah, like, he had that thing at the Orange Cassidy show where the crowd was cheering him reading that cat book. And you could see on his face, like, I don't get this, but they love it and I like it now.
01:05:01
Speaker
And just him coming up and being like, basically telling me that wrestling is a work, but we all, but we're really good fans. Like, dude, I get it. We don't put Teddy Hart out there anymore. Stop it. I don't need him to explain how this works to me. Oh, no, it was actually after the Zane Swan match. He went out and said that Alex Zane was the future of the business. And he said that his uncle Brett was going to come sometime. And I'm like, what the fuck is Brett Hart going to do at GCW?
01:05:29
Speaker
Oh my god, if Bret Hart is the one to beat Nick Gage. That's a spring break this year. Nick Gage versus the hit man versus the king. And then I do need to bring up the main event. Main event was Jimmy Lloyd versus Shotzi Blackheart and what I think may be her final indie match before she goes over to NXT.
01:05:56
Speaker
I really, really like Shotzi Blackheart. I'm happy that she got signed. This match, she did not have to do what she did in this. This was a hardcore match. She went through thumbtacks, she took some crazy bumps, and that is some awesome shit to see somebody not have to do before they go to NXT, but she did it anyway.
01:06:16
Speaker
on her way out the last time she may ever get the chance to do that spot. She did it. And I really respect the shit out of her for doing that. Jimmy Lloyd went over in the main event. It's his show. It is what it is. Congrats to Shotzi on getting the WWE deal. Oh, yeah, that's hopefully they take care of her in NXT. Yeah, I really do hope so. I mean, they've got a great roster and I think she'll fit in great.
01:06:43
Speaker
Oh boy, Garrett, I was looking for something to add a little extra spice to this show and I was looking to bring up an old match and I found one and I said it your way.
Review of Halloween Havoc 1989 Thunderdome
01:06:55
Speaker
This year, 2019 marks the 30 year anniversary of the very first WCW Halloween havoc, which is a pay-per-view that's extremely popular. I hear people clamoring all the time. They wish WWE would bring this one back. Um,
01:07:14
Speaker
But I was looking at maybe doing 1999 again, we covered a match from that last year and there just wasn't anything good. There was like a DDP Ric Flair strap match that I thought about doing. A lot of garbage on that show. So I opted against that and I dug through the years and went back to the very original, which funny enough, this is what's weird about it.
01:07:37
Speaker
It takes place in Philadelphia, which is where that GCW show took place. So it all ties together. I wonder if I wonder if that was intentional on their part, do you think? Like Jimmy Lloyd was like, we're going to be at the home of the original Halloween Havoc. So it's Halloween fuck fest. But Jimmy, we have a planner. Halloween Havoc 1989. The main event you hear reference to this like in pop culture a lot, I feel like.
01:08:07
Speaker
but you'll hear somebody say, welcome to the Thunderdome. This is the first ever Thunderdome cage match, and it's between the Great Muda and Terry Funk with, was it Gary Hart? No, it was Gary Hart presents the Great Muda. Fuck off, Gary, you know what I meant. No, it's like how Fast and the Furious presents Hobbs and Shaw. Oh my God, Hobbs and Shaw, I hope it goes away.
01:08:37
Speaker
Gary Hart presents the Creighton Muda along with Terry Funk, taking on the team of Sting and Ric Flair, who also happen to have Ole Anderson on the outside with him. Garrett, this match has an electrified steel cage. It has Bruno Sammartino as the special guest referee.
01:09:03
Speaker
The cage itself has all sorts of fun shit attached to it. It has a rope. You mean like garboils and spiderwebs? Basically, yes. There is a skull sculpture on the cage. There is sticks and branches. There are cobwebs. There is a rope that can be used to swing from.
01:09:28
Speaker
The supposedly the top of the cage is electrified though that rule seemed to be pretty if they decided to acknowledge that.
01:09:39
Speaker
because sometimes they would get to the top of the cage and acknowledge that they were being shocked and other times it didn't seem to exist at all. The most important thing about this match take away, there's a couple things I guess, but the one thing that I hadn't heard of the whole idea of this match is that you have somebody representing your tag team called a terminator.
01:09:59
Speaker
And for Sting and Flare, it was Ole Anderson. And for Muda and Funk, it was Gary Hart. And the idea is that your team loses when your Terminator throws in the towel and submits for your team because you've just taken too much abuse. So it's not even up to you. It's not about getting pinned. It's not about submitting. When your manager essentially says, ah, they can't take it anymore, they throw in, they literally throw in a white towel.
01:10:35
Speaker
That's a great question. Well, I mean, you mean the entire match or just the Terminator aspect? Well, just the Terminator aspect because I can understand why the cage didn't come back. Although that fucking rope got so much action. Oh, that fucking rope got more action than the rope on my my fort did when I was a kid. So it was funny because that's what I was thinking about the entire time I was watching them do spots with that rope.
01:10:49
Speaker
and the match is over. How come this doesn't happen more often Garrett?
01:11:01
Speaker
No, the Terminator thing is funny. All I could think about, though, is if you were my Terminator. Like, I feel like I would definitely take about 10 more minutes of abuse than I'd like before you threw in the towel. You don't think I would do a good job? I think you would think you did a good job. But I think what would happen is if I was your Terminator and I was the one that was in charge of throwing the towel and telling them that you're done,
01:11:31
Speaker
I think that in my heart would believe Garrett wants some good content from this. I'll let it go a little bit longer. And see, I need you to be there to create that content because I would have, I tapped out five minutes in, but luckily you're the one in charge of tapping out for me and I can go a little bit longer before I pass out probably. Garrett, we can stretch this to 15. This is once in a lifetime. Brock won't be too hard on you.
01:12:00
Speaker
There's just, there's a moment where like, cause the thing that they never really truly explained was why Muda and Funk were constantly trying to get out of this cage they could not escape from. Like the cage at the top bent in on itself so that you couldn't climb over the bars. And it seemed like 75% of this match was them trying to climb up with no, with no, with no fucking purpose.
01:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, they did that a lot, and then Sting also did a thing that no one does in cage matches anymore because it's fucking weird. Basically, one of his big offensive maneuvers was to try and just stick people through the holes in the cage. Yes! And push- Like he was literally fucking another human being through a cage hole. And what was the endgame gonna be, that he's outside now? I don't think he was hurt. Like, if anything, he was just kinda pissed off.
01:12:55
Speaker
He did it like two or three times. I would say easily my favorite spot of this entire match is before anything even happened. The cage is lowering.
01:13:07
Speaker
and they are nowhere near the ground yet, and they decide to shoot off some fireworks, which is, it's not quite festive enough to be like, here's the cage. It's more like, oh fuck, I forgot there were fireworks on the top of this. They go off, cage comes down, the camera's moving around a lot in a weird way. Like, you know, it's not focusing on the right things, and eventually it moves up to show you, the cage sets some of the like,
01:13:33
Speaker
fabric that was hanging the spooky fabric on fire you rags and what was beautiful is it caught on fire there's referees and PA is trying to put out a fire on the side of the cage great mooda has the green mist in his mouth climbs up on the turnbuckle and spits the mist into the fire to extinguish it and that's magic that is great mooda used his gimmick to be a firefighter hey
01:14:00
Speaker
Ring awareness is the name of the game. I think the funny thing is for his for his fucking comical as this match was the spot where Terry Funk is hanging from the cable that's connecting the corners of the cage together. He's hanging there and Sting is using that fucking rope to basically jump out and then kick him and then jump out and then kick him repeatedly. And then once they get fucking funk
01:14:30
Speaker
subdued in the ring like flares got him in the figure four I don't know how far he flew but he flew from like the corner of the cage over the turnbuckle and then basically into the middle of the ring to splash Terry Funk and then the fucking there was a spot where they they go on the outside Gary Hart's not thrown in the towel
01:14:51
Speaker
But there were some shenanigans and the towel got knocked away onto the ref who is Bruno Sammartino, by the way, the face of W.F. Gary Hart represent bullshit, Derek. Gary Hart presents quality and quality. Don't throw in the towel.
01:15:09
Speaker
This is, I hope you enjoyed this match because I thought this was a really fun find. How has this never been brought up to us? I mean, there is a moment in this, I believe it's Terry Funk in the corner and Ric Flair goes to swing on the rope to run into Funk, but does not get a good push and just kind of gingerly taps into him in such a hilarious, awkward way that I love pro wrestling so much.
01:15:38
Speaker
It's fun digging into the archives of these old pay-per-views and finding shit that you're like, huh, so that's how that got started. Was that actually a WCW show though, or was this an NWA show? This was WCW, Halloween Havoc, 1989. They kept bringing up the NWA on the mics.
01:16:00
Speaker
Well, there was a time period where the NWA was like strongly connected to WCW. Like they recognize that title. And one of the things that like made me feel weird as shit is that when Flair came out, they acknowledged him as a six-time world champion.
Ric Flair's Championship Legacy
01:16:16
Speaker
And I said out loud, holy shit, there's like 10 more to go. It's 1989. And he still had 10 more championships to win. God damn.
01:16:29
Speaker
I'm really happy. I'm really happy you found this show. I think this is right in our wheelhouse of the bullshit that we like to watch. And the fact that no one had ever thrown this one out deeply offends me. So, hey, if you know anything else that's on this level of bullshit, send it my way because I like watching good wrestling, but I also like watching fun wrestling. So give me something something to watch.
01:16:56
Speaker
If you know some good bullshit wrestling, send it our way. We're at Wrestle Hangout on Facebook and Twitter. We're at Predetermined Podcast on Instagram. If you want to reach out to us specifically, he is at Gartet on Twitter. I am at Halloween Halpin, wink, wink. And we love interacting with you people on social media. We do polls on there sometimes. We'll retweet stuff from you if it's funny. And like I said,
01:17:21
Speaker
Share this podcast with your friends, especially if you live internationally. Let them know we want their love. Also, happy Halloween and happy second year wedding anniversary to my beautiful wife, Leah. That's true. Happy anniversary to Garrett and Leah. Thank you. Two years ago, we were dressed up as pro wrestlers on your wedding day. Derek, before we go, what's your favorite horror movie?
01:17:51
Speaker
Oh, fuck. That's tough. You and I like the Halloween franchise. I mean, you pretty much introduced me to horror movies as a kid and it scared the fuck out of me. Yeah. Yeah. You sent me a tweet the other day. You said, guess what I'm watching right now? And then you never told me. I guessed the movie Life Force, but I'm guessing that wasn't the right answer. The answer was raw.
01:18:14
Speaker
Oh, no, that's that's that's almost a horror movie. Depending upon who you are. Yeah, if you're Mike Kanellis, that's the scariest show to be on. Wow. We're not going to be able to top that. Let's get our let's get our asses out of here, Garrett. All right. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We'll be back next week. Hit our God damn music.