Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 145: How to Create and Sell an Online Course
593 Plays2 years ago
Becca and Chad Campbell from the Course Company join me today for a discussion about how to create and sell an online course. You may recognize Becca’s voice from another early Brands that Book interview that I would highly recommend checking out if you're creating an online course or if this subject interest you. Especially if you're currently providing a service and are interested in learning how to go from serving one to one to serving one to many. If you're interested in learning more about the Course Company, be sure to check out the links in the show notes; Chad and Becca know what it takes to create an effective online course because they've done it themselves and they've helped others do it to.
For show notes visit...https://daveyandkrista.com/create-and-sell-online-course/
Recommended
Transcript
Ensuring Replicable Learning Outcomes
00:00:05
Speaker
Let's make sure that you have solid steps so that your learner can have the end result, whatever your end result is, they can apply that. And then once you have that, great. Now let's talk about slides or face-to-camera or teleprompter, no teleprompter. Then we can get into those more fun details that people want to skip to, but it definitely is worthwhile to take a lot of time to understand that your content can produce an end result that people can replicate over and over and over again.
Introduction to The Course Company
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:44
Speaker
Becca and Chad Campbell from The Course Company join me today for a discussion about how to create and sell an online course. You may recognize Becca's voice from another early Brands That Book interview that I would highly recommend checking out if you're creating an online course or if this subject interests you, especially if you're currently providing a service and are interested in learning how to go from serving one to one to serving one to many.
00:01:11
Speaker
If you're interested in learning more about the course company, be sure to check out the links in the show notes. Chad and Becca know what it takes to create an effective online course, because they've done it themselves and they've helped others do it too. Be sure to check out the show notes
Listener Feedback and Interaction
00:01:25
Speaker
at dvandchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And we want to hear from you. Let us know what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands of Book podcast as we move forward. To leave your feedback, just send us a DM on Instagram at dvandchrista. Now, on to the episode.
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm
Chad and Becca's Backgrounds
00:01:45
Speaker
here with Chad and Becca Campbell of the course company previously. Well, not previously, little Z sleep still exists. Yeah, still up running still exists. But some of you may recognize Becca from a podcast episode that I've done that I how long ago did we do that podcast episode?
00:02:03
Speaker
a few years ago, for sure. Pre-COVID, right? Everything is now pre or post 2020, right? So it's been a while, but it's an episode that I still talk about. I spoke at Show It United this past fall, From Stage talked about our episode because they're just such great takeaways. So it's one that I still refer back to. And so if you haven't caught it, highly recommend going back and checking that one out. But Chad and Beck, welcome. Yeah, welcome. Yeah, excited to be here.
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, Chad, I'm excited for people to get to know you because, you know, especially for the course company, but, you know, for I think Beck would say for Little Z Sleep as well, you play a prominent role. Just it happens to be maybe a little bit more behind the scenes. But I'll let you all just kind of give us your background and maybe give us a little bit of the story on how course companies started.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I like to say the course company started on the beach in Key West, which is where we got our first inquiry. So we've had little z's since 2015.
Hiring and Business Model Expansion
00:03:02
Speaker
And while I would say, Chad's been working with me since the beginning. I would always talk to him about difficult situations, or we'd go through different things together. But formally and on paper, he started working with me in 2017.
00:03:15
Speaker
We've been going along with Little Z's for quite a while and within that, obviously on our last podcast, we talked about going from a one-to-one to a one-to-many model and that really changed in 2018. And I would say that bringing chat on was the catalyst for that because I finally had more help to be able to do something about that idea. So 2021, when we were on the beach in Key West, we got an email come in from a colleague of ours that was like, hey,
00:03:40
Speaker
you guys do this really well, could you like help me out with it? Could I like come to you and you just help me with it? And we were sitting there like, yeah, yeah, we can help you. And you know, Davey, we worked with Jesse Marchecho in 2019. We flew out to him to help us get started in the ad world. And Chad was like, well, we could basically do the same, but for people doing this with courses. And so like right there in QS, we replied to this colleague and we're like, yeah, we can definitely help
The Course Company Vision and Services
00:04:09
Speaker
you. We'll put a package together.
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah, and part of it, I've always kind of been the mystery man. People always ask me, you do. And I'll tell you what I don't do. I do not talk to moms who are having trouble with their kids sleeping at night, right? I don't I don't do the consulting part of it. But education has that's what I've got my degree in. That's what I've always been passionate about. And so we were literally sitting there. One of Becca's sleep colleagues said, Hey, could you help with with our thing or and my spark started flying. I was like,
00:04:35
Speaker
We could help people in all different kinds of industries because education is education and it doesn't just have to be sleep. I got really excited because I have a lot I can offer with that. Yeah. And honestly, that's what I say is like, I feel like I'm just like the fun host.
00:04:50
Speaker
to the clients come in and Chad's the one who's like actually doing the work, which is sometimes the reverse of little Z's where I feel like, you know, there's a lot of things that I'm doing and he's the one in the back making it happen. So we get to use our skills in lots of cool ways with now developing the course company model. So yeah.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, and so if you are a service-based business, again, I highly recommend going back and checking out the initial interview that I did with Becca just to start maybe generating some ideas for how you can take a service-based business and move it to something that looks more like a product, maybe even in the form of a course. But Chad and Becca, give us a little bit of an idea of exactly what it is that you're doing for clients who come to you asking for help with their course.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, so our purpose with the course company is to be a full service, start to finish, come to us with, this is my material, would you help me make it into a course? And so our ideal clients with the course company are people who are like me in 2018, where you've said the same thing over and over again, and you just cannot even bear to say it one more time, but you're gonna come to us and sit in front of a camera, and we're gonna make sure you say the best you've ever said it, and then we're gonna polish it from start to finish.
The Demand for High-Quality Courses
00:06:00
Speaker
so that we can launch and create and produce your entire course for you while you go back and do what you need to do and we take care of all the details. So that's full service course creation that we love to do with our clients and our colleagues and our friends now. But even so, there's still much more that you can be looking at if you just want to create an online course and get it out there.
00:06:20
Speaker
It doesn't have to be full service. We're definitely that more top tier of like, okay, I want to create a course and I want it to be mega huge. But the good thing about online courses is that it doesn't have to be so overly produced with these fancy cameras, as you see in the background. It doesn't have to be like that. But that's the way that we have gotten to create our own courses and that's our clients want to have. If they're going to have an online course, they want to have the best of the best.
00:06:44
Speaker
our model. And we spent so much time producing all of these courses. And it is so compartmentalized, right? We didn't want people to have to face the same challenge that we did where it's just like, Okay, I've got to go hire a video guy. And that person is just going to do video. And then I need to hire a graphic design person. And they're just going to do that. And then I need to hire somebody that can make my booklet, my download, and they're going to do that.
00:07:05
Speaker
We wanted to bring all of that skill set and those connections together where it's like you come to the course company and it's a turnkey solution. You get everything and it's done well from the get-go and you walk away about a month later and you're selling.
00:07:19
Speaker
I'm so impressed Chad that you have learned all of the, you know, I just, I'm looking at the setup in the back, you know, it's, it's overwhelming a little bit. And, you know, I've, I have a little bit of stuff set up, but it was like a very slow learn, you know, it was like time after time, Tyler coming over, the Herrington, Tyler Herrington, who you all know, being like, no, Davey, this is how you, this is how you put it together. It's simple, right? And I'm just like, I don't know.
00:07:40
Speaker
It makes sense that like what we do is what we do now. I mean, you think about in the online course world, if you're considering making an online course, what you do makes probably sense for the journey that you've been on. And so like, yeah, I look at that stuff. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. But your background in audio and visual and all that, like it just it's really cool that we get to have this new part of a business journey that makes sense for all the skills that we have. So that's yeah, it's been cool.
Growth Potential and Passive Income
00:08:05
Speaker
your old skills coming together in a really unique way to serve your clients. You know, maybe people are thinking about creating an online course, they have a service based business or maybe they don't. They're just thinking about creating some sort of product in the form of a course. And they're looking around and they're thinking, okay, everybody, it seems like everybody has a course now, right? Or there's so many courses out there. Is there still opportunity in online courses, do you think?
00:08:29
Speaker
Absolutely. I'll take this one to start off. So online education is literally a billion dollar industry. You look at colleges and universities, even before the pandemic, they were pivoting to online degrees. They were investing in infrastructure where their professors could literally teach online and you can get online degrees. You think about what it does to the learner, right? It gives people the opportunity to have choice. It's like the YouTube effect in a way.
00:08:55
Speaker
where if you want to learn about anything you can start to research maybe somebody you like their style or you like the way that they speak or you like their product or you like their end result like i wanna learn from that person the learner cannot choose whoever is it they want to do because it's online but you also just think from the educators perspective right it's incredibly efficient.
00:09:15
Speaker
And it's incredibly passive way of making income. So I heard on the radio the other day at, you know, it was just typical commercial, they said, the number one way to make passive income is real estate. And it's kind of been the case for decades, right? Like you want to make good passive income, go flip a house and rent it to people. And that's just income and people have become really wealthy on that. It's still very viable. But I would argue that the number one way to make passive income now is
00:09:39
Speaker
to sell your knowledge. Online education is incredibly expansive. The opportunity is there because you're ultimately selling your knowledge to the people that you have literally nurtured and trust you and build a trust with your circle of influence.
Pre-Creation Experience and Testing
00:09:55
Speaker
For many of us, it feels like it's been around forever, but it's relatively new. I remember the days where if you wanted to take an online course or something like that, it was like they'd mail you a CD-ROM. People have access to better equipment. Heck, even our phones produce such high quality video and images that there's people out there that are making online courses just using their phones.
00:10:17
Speaker
Sort of teaching up for that, right? You know, ask in part because I saw an article the other day and it talked about what they project the industry to be at even 10 years from now. And it's, you know, just huge growth potential. So, I agree. I think there's definitely still opportunity in selling online courses. But I think that brings us to where somebody should even start. You know, like what's step one when it comes to creating an online course?
00:10:42
Speaker
So I'm really passionate about this part because I don't believe that everyone should be making an online course. While it is a great business model and it's a great way to, like Chad said, sell your knowledge, you cannot start and be like, you know what? I'm starting this brand new thing. I think it's going to be an online course model because I think where you need to start is with experience and serving people and building your, like Chad said, your circle of influence and the people who would want to follow and actually purchase your knowledge.
00:11:10
Speaker
So before you even decide like, what can my online course be? My first question back would be something like, okay, but what value do you have to offer? And not in a way that you're not a valuable person, but like what knowledge and what value are you going to go out there and put on the marketplace, right? And if you don't know what that is yet, then let's just spend some time
00:11:29
Speaker
working through whatever it is that you do and teaching your model in a person to person basis and crafting your content. And so when you are considering like, should I do this or not? Let's figure out if you have first of all, content that a works that you've seen results with because you've had the experience of working with a lot of people and honed in your craft and how you can actually teach it. And then when you do teach it,
00:11:54
Speaker
whatever your topic is, that it's providing some type of value to someone. I think that's the first place you have to start. And then we can get into crafting your content and making sure it's well organized. But you have to answer that question first, which I think is not fun for people to think about. Like, oh, I've got to have experience before I just go out there and put something you
00:12:13
Speaker
know, on the internet. And because I come from the sleep world, like, I'm very distrusting of new programs and new courses that I see pop up where you can see that the Facebook page has only been around for a few months, or you see that their website is, you know, there's no content on it because it just became a thing.
00:12:31
Speaker
And I really believe
Course Structuring and Learner Needs
00:12:32
Speaker
that people are smarter now because of the online world, because you can watch masterclass, because you can get an online degree. People are smarter and they're more picky on who they want to learn from. And so if you really want to put out a great course, you need to make sure that your content is good and valuable before we even go anywhere else.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited just in terms of recent trends to talk to you a little bit more about that. But I'll save that as we get into maybe marketing the course. But how valuable would you say your time was in the sleep world working with people one on one in creating your online course?
00:13:04
Speaker
Oh my gosh, you learn so much when you work with people and not even, I'm really passionate about not delivering your knowledge or content over email, but everybody in our third business, the Sleep Sorority, which is a coaching membership, all of our sleep consultants and the coaching membership know that Becca is anti-email. I do not ever want you serving people over email because that's the worst way to get to know people.
00:13:32
Speaker
And so the only way that we could produce a successful online course is that I knew how to talk to people. I knew what points to emphasize. I knew something that I would say would get like a shock factor and I'd have to explain myself because I'd served over 500 people one-on-one and I knew how they would take what I said. And so it's hugely important
00:13:55
Speaker
to know when you deliver your content, how someone's going to receive it, because that's how you're going to then create the chapters, the modules, all the different elements of your course. And that's hugely important for the success of actually selling, but more so the success of the people who come into your course. Because if you can't, if you don't know how to deliver your content, no one's going to see success. And then you're never going to get any great reviews and great sales from that. So hugely important.
00:14:21
Speaker
And just to clarify about the email point, are you talking about email marketing in particular, or are you talking about just how you communicate with a client, for instance? Yeah, that's a great clarification because I do love email marketing. But I don't like if you are a service base, like a one-to-one service base, I don't like only offering, hey, I will support you through your personal training experience as you go to the gym. Like, you know what? Let's shoot me an email and ask your questions. That's not effective.
00:14:49
Speaker
And for my model, a tired mom who is sleep training her baby does not want to open up her email and send her questions. She wants to get on the phone with you and vet her frustrations. And that teaches me how to respond to someone to keep my cool and then also help them problem solve along the way. So yes, I love email, nurture sequences, and that's a huge part of what we do. But I think that if you're wanting eventually to go into the online course field, the best way for you to prepare for that is to talk and to
00:15:19
Speaker
physically serve as many people as you possibly can, because that's going to build your best course possible.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I assume that there's probably different nuances that you pick up working with people one on one or talking with people, you know, in real life, even if it's just via phone call that you can't pick up via email, you know, and just situations that come up where maybe a mom says, like, I hear you, but this is happening. You know, it's that that unicorn thing that we talked about in our first interview, right? So, you know, I could see how that could be hugely valuable in then creating the content for your online course.
00:15:52
Speaker
So from there, just kind of big picture, maybe we should just step back and talk about the different steps that we should take in crafting an online course. So somebody who is either getting ready to build their first online course, or maybe somebody who's kind of revisiting it, maybe it's a new course or whatnot, and they want to, you know, change the way that they do things, where would you recommend people get started? And can you kind of lead us through what that would look like? Just high levels start to finish.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, let's talk about probably crafting your content first. And our biggest thing is having the learner in mind. And this is something that Chad's been really great working with our clients on because sometimes you come to the table being like, Oh, yes, here's my content. I'm ready to create an online course. And then we get ahold of it. We're like, No, doesn't really make sense.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yeah, well, and let's just address probably one of the biggest barriers that a lot of people have from the get go is you don't actually have to be a really great gifted skilled teacher to be able to have a really good online course. You think back to like your high school days, your college days, if you went to college, we all had teachers that just weren't
00:16:56
Speaker
very good. They might have been really skilled at what they did. But that doesn't mean that they actually knew how to communicate that information in a way that would enable somebody else to go and do that as well. You don't have to be a great teacher. A lot of people like stop there. They're just like, I don't like public speaking, I don't really do good in front of others. And so maybe just the online course thing is just not for me.
Overcoming Creation Barriers
00:17:16
Speaker
Well, but you have something you can offer to others.
00:17:18
Speaker
you're bringing something to the table of value that you wanna get to people. And that's where we can kinda help come in because the beauty of online education is that there are so many different ways to appeal to the audio and the visual learner and the hands-on learner. And you can communicate that through video and through editing and through teleprompters and things like that to really effectively communicate. So let's address that very first barrier. You need to just have something to bring to the table. Don't worry about not being able to communicate well or teach well. You just have to have content or a skill that people want
00:17:48
Speaker
to learn from. That's probably big picture. The first step I'm really into barbecue right now and smoking meats, right? There are people that have been on the championship circuits for decades and they they literally guard their secret sauces with like security and everything. I mean, right, like, but now they can come online and they can just tell you how they do it best that they can. It doesn't mean that you're going to make it
00:18:11
Speaker
anywhere close to the way they're doing it, but it makes you feel like I'm at least doing what they're doing. So step one in online courses, just you have to have something that people want, bring something to the table. And then making sure like going along like next with that, the next thing would be making sure that you can have it parsed out in a way like a step by step model that makes sense to someone else.
00:18:35
Speaker
So I think like you're talking about like smoking meat, right? Like there's the great masterclass on that. And you can watch him from start to finish, like see his process. And even though he's not the most like, was it Aaron Franklin? It was great. It was a great masterclass, but like it wasn't the most exciting thing to watch, but he knew how to break it down step by step. And so like when you decide, yes, I want to do this. Okay. I've got my content. Then your next step is to take your content, map it out and decide like, but what's my step by step process here?
00:19:04
Speaker
And one of the best ways to do that is to have some outside ears and some outside brains kind of come into that equation. And that's honestly the first thing that we do with our clients is we're like, let's just start with what you got. Just you tell it to us, you teach it to us, you walk it through, give us what you got. And then we are able to take that just as a set of outside ears, but also with education degrees and knowledge in mind and think, okay, how can we reproduce this for others so that they in fact can learn it too?
00:19:33
Speaker
Right, yeah, that's been where a lot of people get stuck in their head, right? Because they're like, Oh, yeah, I have my content. I know what I'm teaching. This is my step by step process. But then when you explain it to someone else, and they're like, I still don't get it, you know, then, okay, we didn't go back to the drawing board, and you probably need to create
00:19:49
Speaker
five steps from your step one, right? So for us, our personal opinion, when you get started in the course, is you've got your content, but now let's organize it with the learner in mind.
Content Delivery Methods
00:20:01
Speaker
That's great that you know it, but someone who has a blank slate needs to be able to digest what you're saying and understand it and be equipped to go apply it. So even before you sit in front of a teleprompter or a camera or you create your downloadable workbook guide, whatever it is,
00:20:17
Speaker
let's make sure that you have solid steps so that your learner can have the end result, whatever your end result is, they can apply that. And then once you have that, great. Now let's talk about slides or face to camera or teleprompter, no teleprompter. Then we can get into those more fun details that people want to skip to, but it definitely is worthwhile to take a lot of time to understand that your content can produce an end result that people can replicate over and over and over again.
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah. And so do you find in when people create their content, if shorter lessons or longer lessons, do you tend to gravitate in one direction where it's like people typically say, Hey, this is my content and this lesson is, you know, 20, 25 minutes long, and then you end up shortening it? Or is it really just kind of based on the topic?
00:21:06
Speaker
That's the money question right there. And honestly, I do not subscribe to a formulaic answer on that. I actually believe it needs to be as short or as long in order to effectively communicate what it is you want to communicate. And one of the biggest things that we have to work with clients on is, I think we've said this to everybody, is like, you can't just throw the book at people, right? Grandma's a good cook. Great. But I want grandma's biscuits, right? She can cook everything. Great. But I want the biscuits. Give me the biscuits, right? Well, we- She sounds really hungry.
00:21:37
Speaker
Bunch is right after this. Something going on the smoker right now. Right. Something. You get smoked biscuits there. But you know, like people know, like they know a lot. We have a lot of information we want to share, but what makes a successful course once it's going to sell is when you can tell people like in the case of like with Becca, right?
00:21:53
Speaker
we're gonna help you get your child at this particular age range to sleep in two weeks, right? Or you think about a weight loss program, right? This is a weight loss program that will see results in 30 days, right? We are gonna give you just the amount of information. We're gonna set a goal for that person that's defined, that's clear, and we're only gonna give you the information that you need to accomplish that goal.
00:22:15
Speaker
And that's kind of what we do. So as long as it takes or as short as it takes, that's our goal.
Setting Course Goals
00:22:20
Speaker
We've had some people that just are really great at talking. They're very engaging. And so we just we hit record and they roll with it and it could be a 15 minute long lesson and it just flies by.
00:22:31
Speaker
Other people were like let's shorten this and let's digest it because it's so complex that we just need to keep it until these little small nuggets so that they can see results because the ultimate goal is to not transfer knowledge. The ultimate goal in learning is to be able to replicate that for that learner to now go and create whatever it is that they've learned.
00:22:51
Speaker
I really like what you said about having a very defined goal in mind. There's this like mobility program that kept showing up on my newsfeed. And it was basically what it promised people was that they could do a full split in something like 30 days, right? But I thought it was genius. I mean, this thing had hundreds, hundreds of comments, you know, this ad. Every ad that I saw had hundreds of comments. And I just thought like, how smart is that? Because stretching is one of those things where it's like,
00:23:16
Speaker
Well, you know, you're going to feel better. It's hard to really like put a maybe a goal to it, but you say something like that and all of a sudden it's like, okay, it's very visual way of understanding that something worked. I do like that. I think that's something that from the very first online course we've made to now is realize is like, I think sometimes people think, oh, you know, I have to promise like hundreds of hours of video for somebody to buy this. And it's like, that's not what people want, right? What people want is to get whatever's promised to be delivered, you know? And if that takes,
00:23:45
Speaker
two hours, then that's great. You know, if it takes 10 hours, then that's fine too. So I agree with everything that you're saying. What's kind of the next step from there? Once people have their content nailed down, what sort of things should they be thinking about doing next? I guess do you jump to recording? Is there something in between?
00:24:01
Speaker
Yeah. So what we like to do is mock up what it would look like inside Kajabi. So spoiler alert, I don't rep anything else besides Kajabi. We've had clients are like, but what about teachable? And what about that? And like, no, no, no, no, no, just, just trust us on this and just go to Kajabi. So we, we like to kind of mock it up a little bit and then show them, okay, this is what it looks like. I'm a visual person. So I try to anything that's like a visual guide for people. I want our clients to see like,
00:24:28
Speaker
Oh, that's what it's going to... Okay, I understand because if you're new to Kajabi and you don't understand modules, then that's something you need to talk through. So once we outline everything and even mock it up for you, then we're going to discuss, okay, are you looking for face-to-camera? Are you looking... Do you want to do slides? Are you doing loom videos? Now, personally, with Course Company, that's not even an option. You're only going to sit in front of the camera because we're going to make sure that you have the best of the best of the best.
00:24:54
Speaker
I got started with our first course on a PowerPoint or a keynote slide. And that's still for sale today, embarrassingly so sometimes. But it's okay. You can still have something like that and be successful with it. So I will say there should always be an element of a face-to-camera inside your course.
00:25:15
Speaker
People want to see who you are. So even if it's a welcome module, okay, make sure that you're at least going to show your face there. So deciding how you want to create that, whether it is face to camera or slides or a mixture of the two, to figure that out for what your content can be.
00:25:32
Speaker
And then decide for yourself like okay well if it's a video my gonna you know hire videographer or are i gonna take my iphone and turn it sideways and record myself in that way but also more so how much work do you want to be doing with this i know personally when we got started in twenty eighteen i went to a like a richmond.
00:25:50
Speaker
business entrepreneur Facebook group and was like, Hey, does anybody know a videographer? And that's where I found Tyler Harrington was somebody was like, yeah, I use this guy and here he is. Right. And so for me, I knew from the beginning, okay, if I'm, I had had my experience with PowerPoint and knew I needed to move on. So, okay, I need a videographer. So then I filtered through like, who do I want to work with? And I knew what style I wanted. And that was kind of where we went from there. And so everyone is going to be different on their preference.
00:26:17
Speaker
But that's really kind of okay, now you've got your content, how are you going to deliver that content? That definitely would be your next step. And then of course, details from there like, okay, are you going to do teleprompter or not? Are you going to have a digital download for the learner or not? And where can we go with all of the elements that actually go into your course is kind of your next decision making map. And Chad, I'm guessing that with all that, you know, teleprompter set up, do you edit the videos as well?
00:26:42
Speaker
I do. I love it because it allows me to kind of immerse myself into the content. Three months ago, I was a physical therapist for a week. Last month, I was a makeup artist for a week. It's so cool to be able to just immerse yourself into the content.
00:26:57
Speaker
I think that's how he learns best is by getting his hands into the content. For me, when I'm there on recording day and I'm listening to you talk through it, that's my favorite part because I just heard you say something with makeup. She was explaining contour versus bronzing or something. I'm like, I have literally no idea what you're talking about and I wear makeup every day.
00:27:19
Speaker
Can you please explain a little bit further? Even though you may feel like you have your content, if you're going to decide that you want to do slides or face-to-camera, present it to someone else who also has no concept of what you're teaching so they can provide feedback for you. That way before you actually hit go and hit live and it's recording day, you know without a shadow of a doubt that you're covering everything that people need to know.
00:27:45
Speaker
There definitely are many, many steps of making sure that everything is good here before you then sit in front of the camera or the computer and deliver what you want to deliver.
00:27:54
Speaker
I think that's probably so valuable for people. I'm just thinking of the instances where we've had to record something and somebody else was there either almost interviewing you. They're never part of the actual finished product, but it's so nice for them to be like, hey, well, talk about this for a minute. And then they'll go and edit it and splice it all together, I'm sure, as Chad does for your clients. And it's just so helpful, because there's certain things that
00:28:20
Speaker
you're just not thinking about. I mean, even like case in point, asking you the clarifying question about email earlier, you know, it's things like that, that you can clarify upfront without feeling like, okay, I just recorded this whole thing. Now I have to go back and like, re record or re put together. So moving on. I mean, is there anything else that we should talk about? Obviously,
00:28:37
Speaker
We've condensed creating online course, the recording, the putting content together and into a few minutes here. So there are some, you know, certainly some nuances. Is there anything else that we should mention before moving on to kind of the marketing and selling aspect of online courses?
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah. I think it's, you know, Chad noted about different styles of learning. And I just said, I'm a visual learner, right? Some people are audio learners. Some people are like Chad, where you've got to like actually manipulate the material to figure it out. And I know that as you're creating your own course, you may feel like, well, I'm a visual learner, so I'm just going to do slides. Cause that's what works for me. Right. But you do need to consider, honestly, that should be like, have a sticky note on your computer every single day that you look at that, Hey, have my learner in mind. Right.
00:29:21
Speaker
So, in every single one of our programs, there's a video, but there's also going to be a downloadable workbook or a module to work through. There could be an audio component for it. And I believe that the more you differentiate with giving the learner more opportunities to get to know your content,
00:29:38
Speaker
the more value you're putting on your product which does not mean that you raise the price. Hear me on that. We've had a few clients that wanted to add their workbook as, oh, well, they'll have to buy this. It's not included. I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to have the workbook in here because some people will just download the workbook and not even pay attention to your videos.
00:29:59
Speaker
which happens to us all the time with our sleep stuff. They see success and that's what they wanted to do. It is worthwhile to note that as you create your online course, think about all the different elements that other people may value and then make sure that all of that combined is in your course.
Platform Preferences and Client Satisfaction
00:30:15
Speaker
We're not going to even get into right now like, oh, let's have this as an add-on option or this is an upsell option. Your base level should include it all. Then as you get to know more through the year of selling, then we can look at some additional add-ons to offer.
00:30:29
Speaker
I think it is worth noting that it's a really all-in-one experience. Sure. I'll echo your love for Kajabi as well. I mean, we've been using Kajabi for a while now. We've experienced with others like Thinkific, and I just don't think there's much out there that compares to Kajabi. Just a solid platform. I think the best feedback we get about Kajabi is just easy for the user, which is the most important part, right?
00:30:49
Speaker
I have been tempted to switch over to Learn which is Thrivecart's new thing just because it is a one-time fee and this and that, yada, yada, yada.
Marketing Strategies and Engagement
00:30:59
Speaker
But one of the reasons I haven't yet is because I just know Kajabi. I know that people like Kajabi and so I don't know how much time I want to invest in figuring out whether people like or are going to enjoy using Learn as much. So moving on,
00:31:13
Speaker
I guess we should talk about marketing and selling online courses and what that looks like. In general, so someone comes to you, maybe it's their first online course, maybe they sold a few online courses before and have a little bit of an understanding of how all that works, but generally what advice are you going to give people around the marketing and selling of an online course?
00:31:32
Speaker
I'll tee you up. We are very, very careful with accepting clients because it is extremely important to us that they are able to sell. Everybody has knowledge about something. Everybody knows things. That doesn't mean that you have people that want it, that trust you and want to actually give you money for it or to be like you.
00:31:51
Speaker
And so we actually do take a lot of time on the front end, kind of just in the discovery phase to make sure like, hey, if we take you on and we build this out for you, like, are you going to be able to sell it? Like, and probably some of the very first indicators that we're looking for is your influence parameters, right? Yeah. Like, what's your email list like?
00:32:10
Speaker
Oh, I don't have an email list. Okay. You know, before we even go there, let's just start, you know, with a, with a free download and let's start building it from there. So it really is, we almost are taking a step all the way back to the beginning of how should you create an online course? Well, before you even do that, you know, you're serving people, make sure you're building up your content library, make sure you're building up the value that you can offer for free, which I know we chatted about that in the episode from a long time ago that
00:32:34
Speaker
Content is how we were able our blogs are podcast are able to sell courses because people get a taste for what we have and they want to buy more of that so when we do take on a client my job is not any of the course building stuff it's all about the back end making sure that hey.
00:32:54
Speaker
Do you have weekly blogs? Do you have some type of email list? Because if not, then we're going to start now, months before you launch. I'm going to give you a plan of this is what you should send to your email list. Let's like warm them back up again. Here's a freebie that you should probably put out there. So, and we don't even discuss ads or anything like that. I feel like one day we'll have a conversation with Till about how we can partner our clients together.
00:33:18
Speaker
but i really believe that you have no business stepping into the ad world of things before you actually have content that goes along to help sell your course and so that is really where you want to begin is okay well yeah what that's great that you maybe have forty thousand instagram followers but if you've got nothing to back that up on the bill the foundation of what your business is so if you are a business owner.
00:33:43
Speaker
who's ready for an online course and you've been rocking away on weekly content, you've got a thriving email list that you're in touch with and you have a relationship with, you're ready to go. You don't even worry about the fact that you don't have ads running period. You don't need that. You really just need what you've got already and now we can begin to prime those people to buy what you're trying to sell.
00:34:01
Speaker
Do you have any benchmarks as far as like what, you know, kind of what you're looking for maybe even as far as the assets that people have to sort of judge whether investment in something like the course company would be worth it? I would just be willing to say that I don't know anybody who has sold an online course effectively.
00:34:19
Speaker
without having an engaged email list. No one comes to mind not saying that they don't exist. All right, so that's not what I'm saying for people listening, but I just don't know of anybody. I think that the vast majority of people that I know that do really well in the online course space, and that's their primary revenue driver, they have an engaged and relatively large email list. So do you have certain benchmarks that you think people should be aiming for maybe before they hit launch?
00:34:48
Speaker
So I love that and I want to be able to develop that for sure that we can see, because honestly right now our clients have been all over the map, but I will say, I mean, you correct me if I'm wrong. I think the last few that we've had, we've been able to hone in more. And I think that's just how it works as you start something new is you're figuring out who your client is. But the last few clients that we've had, they've had a very loyal following on Instagram and a very loyal following on the content that they create, but their email list wasn't quite there yet.
00:35:15
Speaker
And so before we've ever launched their course, we have someone we're launching next month. And so for two months prior to that, I helped them develop a quiz that helped them figure out what their sleep chronotype is, right? And then from there, it's going to nurture them into some more content, just more free things. And so if you are wanting us to help to develop your course, that is now part of our packaging is that if you have no freebies, if you have no email list relationship,
00:35:42
Speaker
that's gonna be what we work on for several months before we sell your course but if you come to us and you're like oh yeah i've got like five thousand people on my email list and i talked to them weekly and you know i have weekly box it doesn't actually even matter if your email list is five thousand or five hundred if you have a good relationship with your people and they're gonna snatch up whatever you have to offer it could definitely be a good fit.
00:36:06
Speaker
it's really just how much time are you investing in the relationship and you're following and the people that have already raised their hand and said they're interested in you. I think that's really the benchmark. Yeah, and we actually like to ask our clients kind of early on like, hey, looking at your Facebook group numbers and your email numbers, things like that, like realistically, I asked a real estate agent a couple weeks ago on a discovery call. I was just like, hey, if we were to launch this today, like how many do you think you would sell? And so she started thinking through like all the different
00:36:35
Speaker
places she had and she kind of presented a realistic number and we're like, okay, that actually could be reasonable right there. She didn't overshoot it. She didn't undershoot it. And we kind of work with the client on that. But some of it is the reality that some of it is a long term game. And some of it is a short term game. If it's B2B, like business to business,
00:36:52
Speaker
it's more likely going to be a long-term strategy, right? We're going to launch, but it could take a couple years to truly manifest those results where you need them to. If it's B2C where you have information that a consumer would want and take it and run with it, you might actually see larger results quicker. And really, that comes down to price point, right? It's going to come down to the B2B products that we've created are much more expensive than the B2C.
00:37:17
Speaker
And there are so many factors. So it is to a certain extent an unfair question because like you said, what market you're selling to and then price point of course is a bigger one, higher prices, you're going to have to build more trust, lower prices, people might be willing to spend $9 on something. And if it doesn't work out, it's like, well, I only spend $9 on it.
00:37:34
Speaker
But I will say, as far as our email list goes, I think for the first time we launched a course, we had about only like a thousand people on our email list, but it was still a five-figure launch. So it wasn't crazy, I'm still working, but it was still a good launch. As you build your email list, your first few thousand subscribers, I think, are some of your most engaged. And so maybe you see, typically, I think we see higher conversion rates
00:38:00
Speaker
with an email list that maybe is only one to five thousand people. And then, of course, as you get into five figure email lists, typically you see lower open rates and click rates and lower engagement in general and maybe a lower conversion rate in the realm of one to three percent or somewhere in there. But anyways, all of what you're saying is good and helpful, I think, for people to start thinking through as they start creating their first online course.
00:38:25
Speaker
I'll say too, you know, what the stats that you're just throwing out always surprises people, right? So what I want people to understand is we're not just like two people with education degrees coming and saying like, Oh, yes, we could help you create an online course with little Z's. Like I was shocked to learn those results that you're saying like, you know, we heard that years ago, because when we have our five figure list, we're in the 13 to 15%
Building Trust Through Free Content
00:38:49
Speaker
of
00:38:49
Speaker
purchase rates. But that made us realize, oh my gosh, we have something that we know how to talk to people effectively. And that only comes with experience, speaking with people and having that one-to-one service. So if you're not in a place where you can start an online course yet, that's okay. Just be faithful where you are right now because you'll likely get there one day.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And you all just put together so much great content. One more question I want to ask you, and we can cover anything else that you feel like we missed, is about that free content. Because something I've told you all over and over again is how great of a job I think you all do, anyways, putting out content. I know that it – I probably feel that way because it's content that we've used recently, you know, trying to get our newest to sleep.
00:39:34
Speaker
But I guess one of the big objections that I often hear around creating content and giving it away for free is like, well, then why wouldn't somebody buy? And I mean, you put out so much content. Most things that I would have questions about sleep wise, I could probably find somewhere on your blog.
00:39:51
Speaker
somewhere on a podcast or a YouTube video. You know, one of the million mediums that you somehow are able to create content on, right? What would you say to somebody who's like, hey, why would I do this when, you know, it would prevent maybe somebody from purchasing my course? Yeah, so it's not a magical answer that I have. One of my favorite books ever is The Go-Giver. Okay, so they talk about how one of the laws of stratospheric success is your income is directly tied to how many people's lives you're impacting.
00:40:21
Speaker
Fantastic. I'm going to create as much content as I possibly can, whether it's YouTube, podcast or blog or Instagram or Facebook, whatever it may be, because those are so many different people out there who are taking little bits and pieces of it. The reality is your ideal client is not going to go through every single piece of your content to put it all together. Maybe some will. There's definitely some people out there who will do that.
00:40:48
Speaker
But the majority of them are just going to be so blown away by how generous you are with what you give that they're going to be so much more likely to trust you with their bigger problem and then to trade you some money for even more help. And so that's what we found is that the more we can get out there in the world on all the different channels, the more people's lives we can impact with our content, the better the results are, hands down.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that every time you're able to solve somebody's problem or answer a question, it's just an opportunity to build trust. So I'm going to go and purchase something from somebody who I know has helped me in the past versus somebody who hasn't because I'd be taking a bigger risk on that person. But like you, big believer in creating free content and giving it away. And I think at the end of the day, even for
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm thinking just some courses that we've bought. You could probably reconstruct it in some ways just through the free stuff that person gives away. But I don't want to go through the work of figuring that out, you know?
Continuous Content Creation and Improvement
00:41:50
Speaker
Exactly. This person who I know that puts together great content has intentionally put together a curriculum that solves my problem. So, of course, I'm going to go and buy that from somebody. So, anyways, is there anything, I mean, obviously there is stuff that we haven't chatted about. Anything that we should mention before we sign off here?
00:42:07
Speaker
There are two main reasons why somebody would actually give you money for content. It's either because they just really like you, your personality, or you're just really, really good at what you do. But when you can be a really, really great personality, and you're really, really good at what you do, that's just going to be even better in terms of selling, right? Some of those things we can work on and get better at.
00:42:28
Speaker
but the only way to have both of those together is to keep being faithful with what you're doing now. I mean, I literally look back at some of our original video content. I'm like, this was terrible. Like how, I wasn't like, I didn't know how to talk. I was, what was I doing? But you're only gonna get where you want to go if you just keep going. So that's, yeah, I think that's such a good point.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Seth Godin has this, I'm sure he said it a million times, but he publishes a daily newsletter blog. But one of the things that are just as resonated with me is how many words you have to write to finally get to writing the good words. And that just doesn't magically happen for people. It's people who show up every day and they put in the work and some of that stuff. I certainly feel that way, even about not so long ago, YouTube videos. That's like a newer realm for us, you know? But you know, the only way you get better at it is just doing it over and over again.
00:43:16
Speaker
Well, Chad and Beckett, thank you so much for joining us and talking about creating online courses. I think this is just an area that industry that's going to continue to blow up over the course of the next decade. Where can people follow along, learn a little bit more about the course company?
00:43:32
Speaker
So you can head on over to our Instagram, which is just at The Course Company. Also, pinky promise, by the time this goes live, we'll have a website. We'll have a page up, okay? We have no website right now, but somehow people are still finding us. Yeah. No website. It's been rocking. So that would just be thecoursecompany.com is our website.
00:43:52
Speaker
All right, awesome. Well, we'll include links to all that in the show notes and links to the website when it's live and all of those things. And if you do have a child that you need to teach how to sleep, all right, you should check out Little Z Sleep. But at the very least, check out my first episode with Becca as well. I think that is a nice part one to this episode, especially if you're a service-based business and you're kind of thinking about or thinking through ways you can go from that one-to-one model to that one-to-many model. But Chad and Becca, thank you again.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yeah, thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
00:44:45
Speaker
you