Transcript
Speaker: Worm is a web serial by J .C. McCray, also known as Wildbo. You can read Worm in its original format by visiting parahumans .wordpress .com or donate to Wildbo's Patreon at patreon .com slash wildbo. This story isn't intended for young or sensitive readers. Readers who are on the lookout for trigger warnings are advised to give Worm a pass. For a complete list, check the description for all of Worm's trigger warnings.
Speaker: Oh man, I was still vibing. I was at my ends. So those, the intro is such a pop, Michael. Thank you. Every time, every time. Thank you. Well, it had to come to an end eventually. And we're back with dissecting worm arc 11 chapters one through eight. Uh, as always myself, Jacob joined by Alan. Welcome back, Alan. Hello. Hello. And Michael.
Speaker: on our, I was gonna say on the keys. I don't know why. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, we'll go with that. Why not? Oh, it's just us here in the booth. Hello, Jacob. As we go through, hello. Hello. As we dissect these chapters.
Speaker: And right off the bat, kind of a short segment. I don't know, Alan, we really haven't talked about this since. We haven't, but I guarantee you, whatever you're about to say, I agree with. All I was going to say is not enough here to fill an episode. I was going to say, I feel like this is one episode. Just one. I would, I would, I, this feels like a good episode to, to keep
Speaker: open to drop other scenes into. I think there's enough small scenes in this that go on that you could definitely make an episode out of this, and it wouldn't even be the shortest one. But I felt like this one and the last one, I think.
Speaker: Didn't feel too rough in terms of like, oh yeah, we need to cut somewhere. No, I feel like these are exactly as long as they need to be. Yeah. I don't, I definitely wouldn't want to cut anything. I think, uh, I think everything in these chapters is pretty important for the, for the narrative of the show. I mean, just hear me out. Like I was going to give sort of a brief summary, not resummarizing, but for just giving you all the things that happened.
Speaker: So we've got the nightmare sequence, which we'll get to. We've got, uh, Taylor, you know, being a villain. We've got Taylor having a conversation with her dad. Yeah, that's a whole thing. Uh, you've got Taylor running her territory. You've got Taylor dealing with the merchants. You've got tailored talking with Sierra about it. Uh, and then going to talk to tattle tail, you've got. Tattletale and Taylor go into the merchant festival. You've got them, you know, rescuing.
Speaker: Uh, what's her face, Charlotte and Charlotte, Charlotte interacting with Bryce. Get it. Having the whole fight sequence about the can happen. The trigger, the post that fight, you know, with them getting attacked and then the fault line fight. And then Taylor afterwards, um, you know, talks to neuter talks to Charlotte, talks to, you know, Sierra.
Speaker: and then Gru comes over. There's a lot of conversations in here. And then let's just say that everybody gets a three minute conversation. We've already hit the 30 minute limit, if not more. Yeah, no, I see that. I have a feeling that some of these conversations would go faster once they're filmed, but there's plenty. There's definitely plenty.
Speaker: I have a feeling this is an area where we could shorten and condense some things if we wanted to. I agree. And like I said, we'd have room to throw in, you know, it's from an interlude or something like that. Just because we've been open about this before, just to remind everybody, Dissecting Worm is a spoiler zone. So we highly encourage that if you are reading along with us and the rest of the Brockton Bay Book Club and you are not
Speaker: past this point or have not read the entirety of worm to, we thank you. We'd love for you to listen, but we would prefer that you go read worm and finish that up and then come back and join us afterwards. Cause we will be spoiling everything. I'll add a little bit onto that a little bit more that I am going to keep it lighter, but I'll also be spoiling a little bit for the sequel series ward as well. I'm not trying to give away like story beats, but
Speaker: Um, perhaps that some characters survive or continue on. Um, the idea would be like, you know, we finished this out and, uh, you know, we, we get lucky and Ward is, you know, picked up as a television show as well. You know, keep going with the script that we have written here. Um, you know, so those elements would be rolling over into that. And so we're keeping a lot of those things that I've read and Ward in mind. Um, but.
Speaker: for the sake of Jacob, who I know is not. I'm aware of a few spoilers, but not a lot. So yeah, I will keep it light. Alan's got some ancillary information for us every once in a while that helps. The info we need. Kicking this off, we've got the nightmare scene, which talked about in the other podcast, the book club. I really enjoy and feel like it fits
Speaker: or for like how we've paced these other ones where there's a little bit of time jumping. We've had perspectives from other characters. So having something new and interesting isn't out of, isn't different for this season. However, we need to cut for time.
Speaker: This, this can go right. I'm so happy you said that. Cause that's where, that's where I was leaning. I do like it. It's a great little scene to read. Uh, it's fun in context, but, um, I would, I would definitely cut it from a, I don't feel like I'll be honest. I don't feel like this hat has it's, I feel like every young kids show has this episode.
Speaker: Um, the one that immediately comes to mind is Anna morphs. It has the episode where she comes down and it turns out like everybody already has the bugs in their heads. And then they tried to put the slug in her ear and then she wakes up. Um, so like, I've like, I've seen this before. I know that it exists and more than a couple of shows, but at the same time, I don't feel like this really kind of ties into the rest of the story. I agree. You don't.
Speaker: I don't feel like it builds up anything other than like, oh, I was thinking about my dad and look, it's my dad. This was one of the moments, we've talked a lot about the way Wild Bo so skillfully navigates common tropes with these types of genres. This is the one time where I felt he didn't do that.
Speaker: And again, not a detriment to his writing style. I think it's a really well written chapter. And I think in the context of Reading Worm works pretty well. So this is not a critique really of the way he wrote it, but definitely in terms of visually, like watching a television show.
Speaker: This just falls into, like you're saying, just so many tropes of classic things. It's obvious, it's a little shoehorned. Like you said, it doesn't affect the story. Spoiler alert, Danny is not coil.
Speaker: Well, hold on. You know, we don't know what we've written yet in the future. So, okay. Right. Let's not leave things out. You know, that's fair. That's fair. Maybe that's it. Maybe I'm, I mean, I'm not opposed to making Danny. Oh man. Could you imagine? Well, we'll explore that. Oh boy. If you read my fan fix, you'll realize I can in fact imagine.
Speaker: But yeah, no, I think that's good. Kind of on the same page there. Definitely an easy thing to cut for time amongst a sea of things in this story. We're going to have to cut for time. This fits that category. But that does leave us with how do we open the episode? Okay. So I have something that I don't do often, but I have a section blocked out in my notebook called returning thoughts, which is something
Speaker: that I have put in to retroactively go back and look at this. And my thoughts are, I can't remember exactly when we talked about doing the coil reveal, that coil is the sponsor. And I'm still having a difficult time with it. But I think what we talked about was potentially having him reveal himself for the territory divisions.
Speaker: Mm -hmm. We did talk, um, you know, in the preview at the, uh, essentially at the end of the previous chapter. Yep. Yeah. So in that regard, I think that's a great place to have maybe Lisa and Taylor deliver the USB drive of the stuff they downloaded in person. And Lisa goes like, Hey, I know you essentially like, I know you're not going to betray us.
Speaker: And I know this has kind of bothered you. No more secrets. I've asked that you come with me and our sponsor has said yes. In fact, he would like to talk to you and then you get, you know, get to the limo and we have the limo conversation. Oh, and you still do the conversation in the limo pretty much. I still do the conversation in the limo. You know, we're still looking out at the city and skitters like, Hey,
Speaker: what I want is this place to get better. And a coil goes, then make it happen. And also, especially since coil is like, Hey, I've got a good read on all these other people. I know what they've want. They've kind of made their thoughts known, but you want to be a superhero. Like, so what do you really want? And that's where Taylor goes, okay, you're right. Like I don't have to be a superhero to make the city better. It just goes, I want the city to be better.
Speaker: Right. Okay. Well, like, don't ask me to do that. I'm going to put you in charge and you do that. Um, and you know, and I'll, I'll, you know, fund you and do as best as I can for that. She's like, okay. Um, and you get sort of the idea that, you know, obviously, cause you stock my own supplies and stuff like that, that he'd already had an idea of like, you wanted to do some things, uh, in terms of how he was handling,
Speaker: recruiting people and whatnot. But it was a great point for Taylor to like really. Yeah, I think it's a great point to bring that scene back. But to now. And we still get the asking Taylor what she wants. And this is a good reveal for coil. I don't know about the power thing, though.
Speaker: I don't think we reveal the power here. Yeah, I would agree with that. With this work, are you thinking about this in terms of like an opening for this episode as we do all of that? Or is this happening at the end of the last episode? I think this is a good ending to the... What's the ending of the last episode?
Speaker: That's Alec, isn't it? It's Alec, but really the Alec thing, I think as much time as given to it in the story, there really is a scene that would not take that long screen time wise. You're talking five minutes maybe. So you still put that at the end. You can still end with that. So we do that with...
Speaker: I, yeah, I think we end with the, I still think we end with Alec. I think that's a great ending. Um, but before that, like chronologically they, they do the raid, they get out, they get to drop off the USB with coil. And then we like, you know, fade the black cut to, you know, somehow tie it in with Alec and then cut to Alec saying like,
Speaker: Or, you know, no, Coyle goes like, all right, and you know, what did you do with shadow stalker essentially? And they're like, oh, we let her go. Yeah. And it was like, interesting. And then cut to shadow stalker and Alec going, ah, yes, letting you go. And then everything that follows.
Speaker: Ooh, what if... Oh, okay. Hear me out. Spitball in here. I'm listening. You do the whole coil thing, right? Do all that. Have that scene. This is post. So before this, we have Alex saying, shout out stock, we let her go. Do that whole thing.
Speaker: The coil scene comes out, yada, yada. And just because this is the way Alec would do it, Shadow Stalker is watching Taylor and Lisa leave coil space. Maybe he's known about it, who knows, can work that.
Speaker: And Shadowstalker's up on the roof, right? Camera cuts, we see Shadowstalker audience going, oh, she's been spying on them the whole time. Then we do Shadowstalker's whole bit, goes back home, all of that stuff, ends that scene with the big old reveal that Alec has been controlling her the entire time and still get that moment of he's behind the whole thing. Yeah, I think, yeah, especially if we play up
Speaker: all of the words and the way, like I said, I think the reveal really is her putting her head through the noose. And maybe you leave it there. She puts her head in the noose and she's like freaked out. And then we just cut back to the base with Alec. And that way you don't know what happened to shadow stalker.
Speaker: Interesting. Leaves it very open -ended. It does. I'm not against that, but I also like Alec releasing her and just the psychological torture that she has knowing that she's always within his grasp. Pretty terrifying. But I like the ambiguity too. It's a neat thing to play with.
Speaker: Well, either way, we could work that out. This is still past episode. No, no, no, this is important. This is good. Coming up with this now leading into this. True. But yeah, I think, I think that's a great, you know, bopping with the coil thing, this thing, which leads up, we've just had the coil reveal. So when we open this episode, I think it's not like, if we wanted to keep a dream sequence to cold open this episode, I think just like the, you know,
Speaker: skitter walking down our dark hallway. There's, you know, how to quill in his office or something like that. And he's like Taylor. And then the, you know, the voice kind of shifts and like takes off the mask and like looks at her and goes like, I'm so disappointed or some something, you know, just really quick, just something to mix those up. And then she wakes up. I don't think we have to have the whole, Oh, the travelers are defeated and everything. I think you just make this very quickly. I'm having dreams about coil because
Speaker: It bothers me. Yeah, that can work. That's not too hard to kind of fit in. Another thing we can do too, and my opinion on this might quickly change as I read the next few chapters, but it might be a really, really good place for some sort of Slaughterhouse Nine introduction. We haven't actually met them yet.
Speaker: Um, that's fair at this point, uh, some sort of interlude or something like that. I'm trying to think if there's a good interlude for this. Cause like the whole thing is that, uh, maybe maybe we have some more mentions, like we have talked about, she talks about with her dad, you know, she does be on the lookout. Right. Right.
Speaker: My only hesitation is because I know the chapters that follow this are all of the recruiting that the slaughterhouse nine does. And I don't want to jump into that too quickly without establishing them as the threat that they are. Especially if we're going to adapt the whole bit and coils base where Dinah gives the prophecy and all that, which you really should keep.
Speaker: I do think that's kind of important, but if we want to move that around, then that's fine. But if we're going to kind of move that, then we do kind of lose the impact of, Oh, Ooh, slaughterhouse nine are big. Um, okay. So that's something we have. We have two reveals of the coil getting her and also saying like, Hey, what's this information on? He goes, Hey, this is information on the slaughterhouse nine. This is important because I have it on good authority.
Speaker: that if we don't deal with him now, Jack slash will end the world in two years or something, like that he will be responsible for ending the world. We don't say how he got this information, but we do know that there's good reason for why you just pulled off this heist. We need the information on slaughterhouse nine, and that is our goal here coming forward.
Speaker: as bad guys even, is that we need to kill Jack Slash. You could even do, I mean, we're kind of throwing stuff at the wall right here, which is great. But you could even do like, if we want to put in a scene at some point too, this doesn't even have to be tied in anything here, but just to kind of get it in, just between Coyle and Dinah, where he's asking for numbers. And in like real time, she's giving numbers that are getting worse every time the Slaughterhouse Nine is mentioned.
Speaker: He goes, what are the odds that my plan works today? 48%, whatever it is. And then he goes, yeah, runs it again. And that kind of thing. I like that as an ending for this one, maybe. Oh yeah, that could work too. Yeah. Because we don't really have a good. It's true. Outro for this. We don't. I'm at it. And I think it would be, you've got it on the brain. So this would be a good post credit. Yeah. And that would tie in too.
Speaker: with what is likely going to be the bulk of the next couple of episodes being slaughterhouse nine focused. Yeah. So that's true. That's a good point. Good point. Um, so we, we maybe just haven't mentioned, Hey, we need to, like, I've got, uh, we need to information on slaughterhouse nine because they're in town. And then he goes back and it's like, Hey, uh, what's up with slaughterhouse nine. And she's like, um, Jack slash is going to end the world. And like, what? Like, yeah.
Speaker: I like that. Okay, let's run with that. I like that. Let's run with that. Okay. Also we're just gonna, I think we've got Taylor's evil villain layer for the sake of visual storytelling. I think we just go ahead and have like the lights and stuff set up. Like everywhere. Yeah. You just, you know, we already have the, the, the, the, maybe some like production,
Speaker: are getting stuff weaved on to them, you know? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we have the beetle, you know, flicking on the lights on and off. I think that already be set up like testing out and heard just like standing like, Oh, hell yeah. Like layers set up, you know, and then looks around and, you know, has that moment of like looking around like, fuck, where am I henchman? I got no henchman. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think that's a great moment to have.
Speaker: I also, do you have anything more on the evil layer before I move on to that? No, I like that. I do like the idea, the image that she's really, really satisfied with it, but it's also like, it feels empty. She's bored. Maybe she spins around in her equal chair or something, you know? Yeah. Cause this is like her, this is the first time should we get her space. Like, yeah. I mean, she's been at the undersiders before, but this is her space for once. I thought punching, we need to punch up a little, the fact that the dad takes the glasses off.
Speaker: and that she started wearing contacts. Like we just need to point in her daily routine that she like makes a conscious effort to not take her glasses. Yeah, we can fit that in. That's one of those subtle things that you just want people to pick up on over time and sort of make a mental note of, you know, it's not something you need to
Speaker: draw huge amounts of attention to, but just, just enough to, to illustrate the point. Yeah. Cause I didn't remember that until I read it and you know, Hey dad, before I leave, just the tap tap. And I'm like, well, has she tapped like pointing to her face? That doesn't make any sense. And he takes his glasses off and I still, I had to read it like two or three times before I was like, Oh, that's right. Shatter bird. Yeah. That's fun. That's fun. Yeah. So, uh, I feel like,
Speaker: 11 .2, pretty straightforward. Yeah, this scene works really well as is. I had more of my notes were towards the back end when we get into the merchant territory. I really like this scene a lot, her establishing herself and fighting off the few merchants that attack.
Speaker: Yeah. So, uh, I was going to go into that because most of my notes I think are for, at least in her area with the merchants coming in and her dealing with them. Um, what, what do you think about like keeping how it's not exactly chronological for a second? Um, it bounces back and forth or do, would you rather it just go same? Like I think for keep it chronological. Yeah. I think chronological works a bit better.
Speaker: And maybe that's my limitations as not a filmmaker. Uh, but I feel like that's just going to be easier to follow if we keep everything in chronological order as best we can. Yeah. Here's, here's what I'm thinking. I think we have it concurrently where like she sits down and is being told what happened as that happens.
Speaker: She is like listening. She's got the cup of tea in her hands. She's nodding along, but we have like, in my head it's shot kind of like any movie with special forces, but you know, they're de -gens from up country. So, you know, they're coming in in these bands and they're like,
Speaker: Oh my gosh, where is she? And they're like looking around the buildings and stuff and Taylor's like, and then we flashed back to Taylor, like listening to the story and then back to these bands of people coming in. And then the girl being like, uh, I want you to like, I really want you to fuck them up. Like they hurt my family. What they did to this man was, you know, unspeakable and to, you know, you've got the bodies made of bugs that are out there and they start cornering people.
Speaker: And Taylor's just nodding and you hear screaming in the background and she just goes, I'll take care of it. And like while she's currently doing that while they're talking, I think having that back and forth while she's listening to Sierra story. And then like maybe reaches a handout and goes, and we'll look for your brother too.
Speaker: Don't worry. Yeah, I think that works pretty well. Getting the arranging, visually love Taylor just kicking ass while drinking from the tea. I mean, I guess next we move to Lisa's section. And this can be pretty quick. This is really more just an introductory set.
Speaker: or like a, like a in -between set, I should say, as we move from Taylor's territory to the mall. Yeah. It's really a good stop. Yeah. There's three things that I like here. One is, um, showing what, how, like why Lisa's here. Yeah. Um, I think it's a good, you know, that's a really quick justification, but I really enjoy seeing Lisa in this place. Um, two, Lisa giving a bit of exposition on powers and three,
Speaker: Introducing the mercenaries, you know, to get us to the next place. Right. Right. Yeah. That's really all that, all that we need to do here. Which brings us to the mercenaries. I have some thoughts. Let me hear them. Okay. First, an ethical question. How ethical is it to have an older thirst trap for a character who is a minor?
Speaker: You mean in the sense that we're showing it from a perspective of the minor being attracted to the older character? Correct. What if, for instance, there was a hot special forces guy who in no way, shape or form reciprocated the affection, but Taylor might have a tiny crush on. And I do mean she is just like find some attractive.
Speaker: I think that would be difficult to show. The 90s love that kind of thing. It's like the kid looking out the window at the woman getting out of the pool is like... Yeah. Yeah. No, it's funny you bring that up, Michael, because you're right. That was a huge trope back in the day. A really important, not important, important in like the history of cinema, if you're doing that kind of thing. The reverse of that is not as true, but it is still very common. However,
Speaker: Those stories are always told from the older man's perspective.
Speaker: And there's actually, this is gonna date when we're recording this, but the trailer just dropped for, I forget the name of the film, but it has Jenna Ortega and Martin Freeman. Oh, the teacher one. Yep. And all the criticism so far, the trailer is well done. And I'm sure they're both fantastic actors. I think they're gonna knock it out of the park, but the plot is so like classic creepy Hollywood with the old guy and the young girl.
Speaker: I forget the name of the film. I just watched it. I don't know. It's like Miller's girl. Miller's Miller's. Oh gosh. Yeah. This does look, the trailer is pretty crazy. Exactly what we're talking about. That's good. The way I've heard it phrase was American beauty 2 .0.
Speaker: Yeah, American Beauty is the is the example of this trope right now, which did not age well. And it's now this is what you're proposing is quite different because there's no attraction from the older side. No, but this is the problem. This is the ethical dilemma. I am trying to avoid and or just like outright say no. And so I'm bringing it up. Yeah.
Speaker: So I would probably err away from it. I don't think it's necessary. I do like Taylor's character being a bit... Because the concept of that coming of age, sexual attraction in characters is really important. It's an important part of young characters.
Speaker: And so when there's uncertainty there, leading to certainty, it's a really, really easy way to show character progression, especially moving out of a phase of uncertainty into certainty. But I don't think that that's too important. We have plenty of other ways to demonstrate that for Taylor. I don't think we would need to.
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Speaker: Okay. So here's, now that I've heard you out, here's why it needs to happen. Um, give it to me. Number one, uh, this is what vampires, what vampire diaries does to a motherfucker. Uh, every, every new male character, regardless of age is a potential pair, uh, like a potential mate in the pairing game. So like.
Speaker: Just, I have that in my head and I can't get it out. Like every time there's, you're just going full ship, just every ship is possible. Every ship is possible. You have a bay full of these ships and they, any one of them could set sail. Now are some of these even boats? No, they're not even in the water. This one, for instance, this one, the thirst trapping isn't even technically for
Speaker: Taylor, it's for the people who are shipping these people, but you don't need to do a barely needs to put any effort into it. There certainly will be no like direct like, ah, yes. And then she, you know, clearly like had heart palpitations for him. All that needs to be is him be attractive. I'm thinking we play off the tick tock, uh, ghost.
Speaker: um, thirst trapping that we had with the balaclava and just the eyes. Um, and we start that all the way back with the medic and the sniper during the ABB breakdown. Um, I think we just make those two guys Brooks and Senegal for all I care. Um, and we keep these mercenaries named. I think regardless of the thirst trapping, I think we keep the mercenaries named for the fun of it. Um, and we have, you know, we have,
Speaker: You know, one of them just be, you know, kind of hot. And what did he do? Like, well, there was one time that like Taylor went down and he like went over and like caught her and he just like, are you all right? And she like, yeah. And then they get back up and do their thing. But you had that moment and there are a lot of fans that are going to lose their minds over that, you know, the one or two moments that happen in their entirety of their interaction in the series.
Speaker: And that is what I am pushing for. You're giving Taylor a good girl moment with Brian during the, during the Bakuto fight. Just giving that, giving Taylor a moment like that with every potential shot. Yeah, exactly. Just everybody, everybody, like we've had that. I've, you know, I pushed for that with the, I mean, Taylor even thinks that during when Bitch puts the jacket on her. Yeah.
Speaker: Michael, what is the ship name for that? I need to know right now. For what? I need the bitch skitter ship. What is that? Bitcher? Oh, someone's got a good name, I'm sure. It's out there. Skid Bitch. No, we've talked about that before. I mean, Taylor's character does radiate pretty strong, just...
Speaker: uh, by energy, uh, you know, by energy, I would almost say like skitter has this weird, uh, I, I, um, this is gonna sound odd, but like going into asexual into a black hole and out the other side, the pansexual kind of vibes. Like, yeah, when she's everything, cause she's so much of the time she's so focused on everything. It's just like,
Speaker: unimportant, but then when she is thinking about stuff, I feel like it could go anywhere. And as our point of view character for most of this series, I think it's important that our thirsty fans be rewarded. I'm not directly mind you. I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker: I will push it a bit further. I will say that if you want to go that route, which I'm not opposed to, then we need to illustrate an aspect of Taylor's character that honestly, I think this could work pretty well because there's an aspect of her character that goes throughout the whole story that I think is really important, which is that at the end of the day, she is an incredibly destructive individual.
Speaker: and is really not capable of an intimate relationship because of her own tendencies. I don't really want to bad math Taylor here, but this is a concept of her character and her powers ultimately ends with
Speaker: people are disposable, I will do whatever it takes. Exactly. Exactly. I will use them and then leave them behind. Yeah. And her character doesn't really ever pursue that sexually in the story, thankfully. I don't think that would work well. I mean, it kind of feels like that with
Speaker: Brian, a little bit with Brian. Yeah, there is a bit of that there. But all that to say, if you did want to kind of have fun with and use these moments, I think that can work if we sort of continue to highlight her flaws with that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think actually I actually kind of like that. I wasn't thinking that angle now, but now I'm thinking about like ways that, you know,
Speaker: The coil turn happens and you know, she has to kill one of the mercenaries and it doesn't bother her if it's that person, even though she might've built a rapport with them. Exactly. So yeah, I'm not against it. I just, I think, uh, let's, let's go a bit deeper with it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And you got me, you got me on the back foot now.
Speaker: All that to say, you did kind of subtly drop this. We've talked about this sort of off podcast, but I do really like the idea of retconning coils mercenaries in previous arcs and episodes to these guys. Um, we got a few names. We've got Brooks Senegal, uh, minor and jaw, jaw, which is, I mean, jaw ends up going to work for bitch. I'm pretty sure. And then so, yeah. And as a consistent character there.
Speaker: I want to say that, uh, I want to say Brooks and maybe even minor. I don't know how many of them make it toward and are still around as like tattletales mercenaries. Yeah.
Speaker: No, there's a few shows that do sort of the minor character pretty well. No pun intended to the character of minor. But we're like, you just have the reoccurring background character. One of my all time favorites is Wedge Antilles from Star Wars. Like great character appears in all three movies, gets a pretty good
Speaker: Good screen time in the third one. It's him and Lando, the only two ships that fly through and blow up the dust. What a cool reward for a character that survived three films that really had no reason to survive. The characters like that, it's a lot of fun. And those are the characters that build fandoms and keep people coming back.
Speaker: get posted about on message boards and things like that. So yeah, absolutely. I'm telling you right now, these guys are getting their spin -off series. What do you do if you're just a bunch of normal dudes with special forces training against supervillains? It's what the boys kind of wishes it was, but taking the concept and being straightforward with it. I was going to say.
Speaker: all this crap of mega rad. It's like, no, we send you in and, uh, you shoot the villain in the head. Like it's not that complicated. Honestly, it's more of the vibe of like, you ever read any of those, uh, uh, SCP stories? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just sort of like, we're going to get a couple of flashbacks later, especially when we go to a nil Boggs area.
Speaker: I feel like we need more of those in an entire spin -off series of that. I mean, imagine it's like the Jack Ryan or Jack Reacher show, but you've got a villain somewhere and you got normal guys with guns and they are just, you know, as we talked about in the other one, not all super power people got the anti -bulla capability, you know? Sometimes all it takes is a nine mil to the head.
Speaker: No, I mean, you're exactly right. No, I love it. I think there's a lot of potential with these characters. So big family. Yeah. Uh, I mean, it would also be cool, you know, uh, that's probably going too far. Say like, Oh, it's like, he's also the undercover PRT guy that we have, but, um, I think we're okay and not having that. Um, but yeah, I think, I think, you know, having them stick around, having them be Lisa's, uh, harem of boys. I love this.
Speaker: Yeah. And fitting for her character too. I think it works very fitting really well. Yeah. But my, I mean, my next step is like, um, Oh yeah. I just have a note here. Uh, Lisa can't say no more secrets, right? Cause like,
Speaker: She always got more secrets. Come on. Every time she says that, I think of freaking pizza reviews with Dave Portney. One bite, everybody knows the rules. And then he takes like 15 bites every time. Every time. I've never noticed. I wonder if she says it, I feel like her and Taylor should have a look. It's like, yeah, but we both know you're lying. All right. No more secrets.
Speaker: And then just smiles, the biggest shit eating grin. Yeah, exactly. But no, I think we can go to the mall at this point. Oh, yes. Which leads me into my second thirst trapping. You accused me in the past of queerbaiting, which everybody can get off my back about that. That is what I'm going to do. And I'm going to continue doing it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Speaker: I love a couple of kings. And my gut went, oh man, can we make the uber masculine gay couple cannon?
Speaker: I love it. No, that works. I mean, you can get away with queerbaiting when you reward it, as opposed to just using it for... Just Sherlocking it up? Exactly. I wasn't going to name drop it, but yes, that's the exact example. And the nice thing about the story is we do get a lot of good representation. You've got Parian and Flechette. It's a pretty obvious one that people will love. So you can ask... I guess my queerbaiting would be like the Lisa Taylor,
Speaker: Yeah. The, the Sophia Taylor, the, uh, everybody, it's everybody bitch and Taylor. Exactly. And it's not, look here, it's not a matter of me queer baiting like as if it's never going to happen. It's just who, right? You're in your mind, you're all thinking, ah, this person's straight. This person's gay problems with you, not with me.
Speaker: Everybody is queer, but you haven't figured out what kind of queer yet. See, that's, that's a good point. And, and, uh, to keep it in, in with the cannon too, we also have legend. We haven't, we haven't gotten much of a story yet, but we will later go to the big three. Yep. Yep. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of fun. Um, also, uh, two things I have here going in. I think it would be great to have Taylor comment.
Speaker: on how much lice is present everywhere. That's so creepy, but yeah. Yeah. When they walk in and I'll set it in the podcast, I'll say it again. I think Lisa's a coward, should have done ecstasy.
Speaker: I actually thought about maybe that was something we wanted to change and just have them take it for real just to aid the eerie, uncomfortable feeling of this whole place. But I'm not really sold on that myself. I think them being sober is important. I feel like Lisa would want to operate with that there.
Speaker: I also, it kind of made me think about something with Lisa and that's Lisa's power. Okay. Okay. Actually, I was going to say something like the opposite. How much does Lisa consume in terms of sensory deprivation drugs or things to that nature? And if she does take certain drugs that adjust your senses,
Speaker: How does that affect her power? Does that give her a bunch of like false readings, essentially? Like, because what if her power is going, but she's on DMT, you know? Right, right. I mean, as her brain trying to parse out all of those geometric shapes that she's just staring into. Yeah. I would assume she gets a load of information that she can't decipher, like, you know, extra shapes and colors, exactly.
Speaker: And in that regard, is that something that she maybe tends towards or doesn't? Because I know this picks up sort of like Dinah, how Dinah both is, her power actively hurts her, but also the drugs don't help. Tattletale develops that. And in Ward, it's really bad.
Speaker: in terms of like, she is popping ibuprofen like a motherfucker. And, you know, because there's just so much information and, you know, her power just kind of gets ramped up and has been ramped up, you know, since she got it, it just keeps going and going. So like, I wonder if adding maybe, she's even aware and wary of the fact that drugs mess with her.
Speaker: Um, but maybe that's something that she feels kind of inclined towards, uh, because it's a relief. I could see that. Yeah. Maybe we do a little closeup of her pocketing some of the, uh, ecstasy or something like that for later, you know, just, yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe she gives it to, she was like, she's like, okay, it's fine. I didn't give you one. Yeah. And Taylor like looks at her, like, and you know, looks at the other two, you know,
Speaker: arts or whatever. Or maybe she just pockets it. Yeah, I would say pocket it because I feel like she would want to be sharp for this and she's probably smart enough to do that. But it's something she could go home and take later. Yeah, exactly. Any notes on the merchant's place? Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about how dark this place should feel.
Speaker: Okay. Good. Cause I don't have much in the way here other than, uh, it's Mad Max. And, uh, then my next note is all the way at the cauldron, like suitcase. Gotcha. Okay. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, so I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent. Not on this podcast. There is a fantastic show that got caught up in the first set of writer strikes back in 07 or 607, whenever that was called Flash Forward. And Flash Forward only lasted a season. I've talked about it before to many people, probably to you at some point.
Speaker: And just to quickly throw it out there, everyone should go watch. It's a great show. The show is all about the entire world blacks out for two and a half minutes randomly one day, and they all get a glimpse of their future. There's a subplot in the show surrounding people that didn't see anything. And people realize that if you didn't see anything, it means that you were dead six months in the future.
Speaker: And there's a subplot following one character that didn't see anything, where he's trying to get answers, he's trying to figure it all out. Long story short, they stumble into a cult of people who didn't see anything. And it's a death cult. And for daytime or primetime television,
Speaker: Like just on ABC, you know, it was pretty dark and they go into this, they go into this cult and it's just people who have accepted their, their fate, their mortality, and have chosen to kill themselves in whichever way they want.
Speaker: So there's people getting fried to death. There's people doing drugs and having sex until they die. It's just, it's really, really dark. And there's a whole episode where they go into one of these rings and it feels like this. It's just
Speaker: dark, literally, there's very little lights. It's all black lit. People are just going crazy. They're kind of losing themselves. They're literally dying around them as they're walking through this place. It's really chilling. And that's the kind of vibe I got when I was reading through this arc is that there's a lot of people here that are just, have accepted
Speaker: their fate. They've accepted the way the world is. They've accepted Leviathan and everything that Leviathan did to Braxton Bay. And they're just sort of living now. And we see a lot of that. We see a lot of that with Charlotte's character, not really wanting to be there, but being there, we see it with all just kind of everything about the place just sort of feels really
Speaker: It's really weird, really off. And there's a few ways you could portray it. And we don't really need to stay there that long. But I really like the idea of the merchants creating this space where people are just accepted for being essentially dead. Not literally, but in the context of where their life is at, they've died.
Speaker: And just, and just using that as the foundation for a new community is, uh, it's really dark, but I think it's important and it's been, it really, really helps highlight the devastation post Leviathan. Yeah. So interesting. You're talking about a death cult. There is a, so there is a death cult sort of in
Speaker: in this world that already exists. And it makes me wonder if we need to do a bit of condensing between the two, between the merchants and this group called the fallen. Now the fallen show up in a little bit. I think we've got essentially two more seasons before we get to them. And they're only there for a very short amount of time. But the whole point of the fallen is they are
Speaker: cultists or the end bringers, right? And they, you know, the kind of accept like, Hey, the end bringers are here. They're here to end everything. Um, you just gotta suck it up buttercup, like, and join us as we like worship them. And, uh, they're, they've got this odd, very conservative religious bent with the very depraved
Speaker: you know, nihilistic death cult vibes, you know, holy rollers almost if you, if anybody knows that reference. But it's an interesting combination of they're both, you know, very sexually active at the same time, very like religiously repressive. And, you know, they're, you know,
Speaker: They, they quote religious language, but it's, it would be blasphemous to any person that, uh, who's actually religious. Right. Um, yeah. But it makes me wonder their vibe is at least award obviously focuses on them a little bit more. Um, but because they're even present in worm, they,
Speaker: They are just as scummy as the merchants. Honestly, the only difference is maybe a bath. That might be the only difference between the fallen and the merchants when it comes to trying to merge one with the other. Yeah.
Speaker: I think, I mean, I think you could definitely, you could pretty easily merge that. Or at the very least you could merge them now and then have them kind of be their own thing later too. So I forget if we, did we mention that the merchants, like did we mention the merchants that that's the group there that Skidmark's with? I forget like when he shows up. I think it is mentioned. I just assumed it did, but I would imagine so.
Speaker: Yeah. Not to go back and check that, but yeah. Yeah. All right. There's something, something to think about in the future. We'll probably go back and maybe work on, but that's going to be in my head now. Make a note. We pin it as always.
Speaker: But yeah, we can, we move past that kind of into the main event of the, of this, these few chapters with the mosh pit, binding ring, vials, exposition.
Speaker: fault line, which just everything happens. Uh, I think a few things we need to do here is I think we have, uh, cauldron label, I think just needs to be kind of slapped on either the briefcase or the, uh, the canisters. I think both that's an easy put it everywhere. Um, I think we need to very, uh, I love a good, uh, big group fight. Um, so,
Speaker: of obviously the raid two, but both of these are going to be prison riots. Cause that's, you know, where they happen usually movies, but, uh, the raid two is a pretty wild one. Um, and the follow up is the extraction too. Oh yeah. Also a great fight. And I think, um, specifically extraction too. I think I mentioned the other podcast, but when I see Taylor get, you know, kind of is like hit is on the ground. I think.
Speaker: uh, I think her closing her eyes, putting the bugs on everyone, getting up with the two knives and blind fighting. Um, I think you just, you just shoot it like extraction to where he gets, you know, his bell wrong and then turns around and starts whacking people.
Speaker: I love that. I think we start that with her trying to fight normally, just using her eyes and her knives, but there's strobe lights, it's blinding, there's bodies everywhere, and she just gets clocked by some random Joe Schmo in the pit and just gets knocked to the ground, rings her head a bit. And then with that, she sort of shakes it off, closes her eyes, listens to her instincts and her bugs, and then goes on a little.
Speaker: little tear. Yeah. I mean, I think we have everybody experienced the same thing. Uh, the trigger event, the trigger event was the big thing I had. That's going to be really fun in, in, you know, our,
Speaker: in our ideal future here. Really fun to sit down and storyboard out with like a full team with your DP and your directors and things. Like really figuring out how to show that is going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. What's the guy who's been doing the worm shorts? Do you remember his name?
Speaker: Oh, on YouTube, the 3D animator? Yeah. Something VFX. It's going to kill me. I know. Is it adaptation VFX? Oh, that's good. I think that might be it. Michael, come in here with a point later and edit in the answer. I think adaptation VFX. There we go. Okay, got it.
Speaker: Uh, this beautiful, beautiful bastard, uh, has set the image in my mind for a lot of these scenes, even when they existed before, uh, this person just went ahead and like, it was like they pulled it out of my head and made it real. Like they nailed it. Um, so when it comes to.
Speaker: the sequence of like kind of seeing what the shards look like. The locker worm animated short. I think you kind of hit it with that. You maybe make it a little bit more close up so you can't exactly tell what they are. But maybe that they're coming to earth. So people maybe assume that they are the impending doom rather than the fact that they've already been here.
Speaker: Right. Uh, also shout out to adaptation VFX. Cause I know he's, he, she, they, they've been working on a, uh, a Leviathan fight. That's supposed to be like one of their longer projects, which, you know, I'm guessing like for that to drop eight minutes, but they've been really busy because they've apparently been working on like, uh, that, uh, uh, blood Hawk. Um, yeah. Like, like actual cartoons, like actually actually working on like,
Speaker: professional like Netflix shows and stuff. So good for them. Really happy, especially knowing that a worm fan is out there.
Speaker: I hope that some big name director or producer is secretly a worm fan just waiting to find the right time. Here's the thing. Adaptation VFX is our sleeper agent right now. They're making their way up in the animation world. And they're like, hey, you're big enough. You've been so successful with all your good animating you've done. We want to give you your own show. And they're like,
Speaker: Oh my gosh, I know this podcast I listen to, you know, and they've been working on this script. I got an image in my head and that's, that's who we get the in with for our animated worm series. We just back it back a truckload of, of studio money up to wild bo's door. Yeah. Right. Of course. And we're going to throw that out at adaptation VFX on wherever the hell you are. Hey, we'd love to get,
Speaker: We'd love to have you on here. Pick your brain about how you chose to adapt things. Exactly. You've already adapted it to visual format. Obviously it's a little bit different, but not by much. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, back to enough of the daydream for now. We'll be back next week. But triggering.
Speaker: No, I do think this is a really fun moment. We get our first glimpse of the shards and the entities, which nobody knows that's what they are yet, but we get to see them, which is kind of fun. Yeah. It made me think in retrospect that maybe we do every time we do a trigger event story, we give a small flash of them.
Speaker: Like, you know, I'm talking about, there's just literally that split second where the camera, you know, flashes to it and back. And you're like, well, I couldn't see it, but what, what the hell was that? And, you know, now we get to fully look at it and then coming out of it, you know, obviously Taylor like goes over, Lisa's still on the ground, you know, like, oh my God, they're like babies. They're like gods. Um,
Speaker: It's on the tip of my tongue, but I just can't. And we should go, Taylor go, what the hell are you talking about? We gotta go. As if she doesn't know. Right. Yeah, I love the immediately forgetting it. And I love that Taylor's power makes it really hard for her to forget it. Lisa. Oh, sorry, Lisa, thank you. Gosh. Lisa's power makes it very hard for her to forget it.
Speaker: It's a really fun dynamic there. Really interesting. I think this is the type of episode that audience is going to be poring over. You're going to have people immediately spoiling it for themselves because they're going to go online and just Google the answer. I know. It almost makes me want to rename the show. Just so people can't find it.
Speaker: Like we'd know, we just, we just changed it to take that you worm. Oh my God. That's a deep cut for the worm fans out there. Yeah. Uh, I mean, yeah, it's, that's just, that's something that I think there would be a great amount of, I think there would be a great amount of discussion around this and it's un
Speaker: It's unfortunate that it already exists in the world because you know, I, you and me have the same experience where we watched season one of Westworld week by week while it aired and going online and trying to figure out the mystery of that with other people. Because, you know, so open ended as to what the hell was going on with that show at the time. Yeah. I mean, we spent.
Speaker: For every hour of show we watched, we at least spent an hour afterwards talking our ideas and then looking up other people's. Yeah. Oh, I mean, in all seriousness.
Speaker: We really wouldn't have that issue. In our dream scenario, get a mainstream show, HBO picks it up, right? And it's a huge blockbuster thing. And everyone's tuning in 10 million people viewing every episode, Game of Thrones, right? Game of Thrones is a great example. You still had millions of people that were able to... The internet's going to internet and you're going to hit some spoilers sometimes.
Speaker: I mean, I was caught off guard by many spoilers in that show that I did not have spoiled for me, despite the fact that I was watching week to week, episode to episode and chatting to people online and talking about it. So you can be smart enough. You know what? You're absolutely right. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker: However, the counterpoint to what I just said is that, of course, Game of Thrones is not the name of the book series. It is a song of ice and fire. So who knows, maybe that did aid slightly in people's inability to find what they were looking for. But still, no, I think there's plenty.
Speaker: worm is a cult classic, a bit of a cult phenomenon within the book and web Sierra community, but certainly nowhere near the popularity of most of the stories to get adapted today. So that's true. That's true. Uh, okay. Other than that, I think, I think the, uh, this was as I'm currently writing this section, just to show you how far behind I am. Um, I'm writing the Gregor interlude and, uh,
Speaker: You know, it has them pull up the file. I kind of shortened that up to just being about Shamrock. Um, and now we get to view the person that they went and talked to in Vegas right now with them getting vials. So like we, you know, we kind of have this step by step where it's like, ah, you know, we've got the tattoo, she's got the tattoo, but she's not a monster. So they go and talk to her and, you know, off screen.
Speaker: And she's like, ah, well, you know, I've heard there's a dealer as I used to be in the know. And they're like, Oh, we got to go find the dealer. And you know, is, you know, they get some hands on some of these vials. They come back and do that. Yeah. No, I love that. That is such a great example of like, uh, if there's probably an actual term for it, I don't know, but just sort of like this, uh, background world building, um,
Speaker: where you have these events moving in real time around the main storyline and the world is continuing to move and continuing to evolve and characters are talking and having conversations and doing their own thing. And since we're only following really just one character, a handful of characters, but we're not following many others, I love having moments like that where we get to see development and progression happen off screen.
Speaker: really helps keep the world alive. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Uh, or can we ditch train wreck? Yeah. Who? Like exactly. I don't remember. Um, you know, he shows up when the travelers and circus help fight off. Uh, is it, it's not legend. It's arms master and that other dude.
Speaker: Oh, I'm semester and, and, um, and Dauntless Dauntless. Yeah. I'm sure we'll go with that. Uh, I think, I think maybe we Nick's train wreck from that. And as much as I love circus, maybe we Nick's circus from that as well. Yeah. A little too Harley Quinn flavored for me. Yeah. Like I said, I love circus. I know circus shows up later for some more stuff.
Speaker: Um, maybe we next circus just to focus on the travelers. Yeah. I was going to say just to keep the travelers. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, cause I'm not gonna lie. The, uh, travelers specifically our main boy, a trickster gives off strong proto man vibes. If you ever watched the old animated mega man where yeah, he's the guy who works for the villain, but like him and mega man kind of hang out sometimes afterwards. Right. Right.
Speaker: Yeah. No, I like that. Yeah. Nixon train wreck. Nixon train wreck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, love, love fault line. Uh, and the crew, I think labyrinth doing the doctor, stranging up the place, uh, visually super fun. But I think that whole sequence just takes too long in the story and needs to get shortened up. I'm fine with that. I would agree.
Speaker: Have it all go on and then Lisa go like, you know, everybody does their thing at once where they come down, they grab everything and then Lisa says like, ah, that's where we need to go. I see the corner and then they run there while everything's going down in the background. I was gonna say, I think you just do Taylor sensing neuter on the roof with her bugs and dropping off and kind of given the cue like
Speaker: Time to go. You got to get out of here. Yeah. And then maybe we do a quick, everybody gets five, 10 seconds to show off as they drop down. Cause I want to see fault line, do the floor thing. Oh, exactly. Uh, you know, neuter do the Palm strike, just the drop down and just the touch and that person's knocked the fuck out. That's great. Yep. Um, and then of course her, see like the papers go everywhere and you got to grab those. Uh, and then, uh, you know, and then outside.
Speaker: Maybe they should run into Nuder more naturally, especially since I think Nuder's a fun character, a very friendly guy, and I think Taylor and him have good rapport from the last time they met. Yeah, I agree. I like that. I do want to keep that, I think.
Speaker: Just because again, I do think Neuter is going to be a pretty popular fan character. So I'm fine giving.
Speaker: giving him more. Neuter is the type of character, you hear about this all the time in television shows where they're like, oh, we just wrote this character as a background character. But after the first season, the audiences loved him. So now he's the part of the main crew. You know, the Andy Dwyer in Parks and Rec, that kind of thing. Neuter absolutely feels like that kind of character where you have him in there and then the audience is just like, more neuter. And now we're gonna, all right, oh fuck, okay, we gotta fit him in here now. Don't you guys worry.
Speaker: The neuter Taylor ship will be present, especially when they hand off the paper will linger there for that, you know, that, that frame longer than necessary. Yeah. Then changing the paper. Exactly. Just for you. But no, I think that pretty much wraps it up. I do like the idea. I don't know if you have any thoughts. I like the, I like the way it ends. I like the Taylor and Brian's reconciliation. Yeah. I have it changed his speech to a
Speaker: Maybe. Okay. Like he comes in and I'll be honest, he's very positive about a lot of it. I think still having him be the holdout from the crew, the one that doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. You know, cause everybody else is cool with her. I think having him essentially be like, cool. We can, maybe if we work, we can get back to neutral, but I'm still butt hurt. Right. Yeah. No, I like that. I agree with that.
Speaker: But just having a bit of positivity to end the episode, I feel is good since I have a feeling and I am eager to reread the following chapters and arcs. I have a feeling we don't get too positive for a while. Yeah. I think, you know, we have that happy moment. We're like, okay, cool. And then, you know, she gets to hang out with Sarah and
Speaker: Charlotte or whatever, you know, she's got her place where, and I think everything just might work out, you know, credits, post credits is coil opening the door and being like, Hey Pat, like how about them numbers? All the numbers are going down. The numbers are going down. Oh boy. I think you mean number. Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah. That's, that's a,
Speaker: Oh, I got on this one. Yeah, no, I think that wraps it up. Well, not too much left here. Well, of course, as always, to anyone listening along with us, thank you. We really do appreciate it. We have a lot of fun. And even with nobody watching, we'd still be making these.
Speaker: We just really enjoy worm that much. But please reach out to us. Let us know what you agree with, what you disagree with. Have we cut something you don't want to cut? Have we forgotten something that we totally skipped? That's happened before. Tell me who your favorite ship is. And I was going to say. And justify why they should even be in this. Or tell Alan to fuck off.
Speaker: leave Taylor alone either way. He won't listen to you. I didn't say it had to be with Taylor. It's going to be with Taylor, but it doesn't have to be. That's fair. That's fair. No. Yeah. What's your favorite ship? I like that. Give us your favorite ship, which ship needs to set sail during the show.
Speaker: We'd love to hear it. Reach out to us at any of our social media platforms, which I'm certain will be easily accessible in a description somewhere. At Brockton Bay, BC. At Brockton Bay, BC. Pretty much everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, completely everywhere. Completely everywhere. Thank you, Michael.
Speaker: And until next time, we will be finishing arc 11. So we'll be going into the interlude chapters, which are 11 point A through H. The next eight chapters read along with us. We're going to be discussing all of that as we get into slaughterhouse nine. It's going to be a lot of fun. Until next time.
Speaker: Cool outro tagline. I still haven't come up with yet. We'll figure something out. Hit us with the outro, Michael. Boom.
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening. Read along with us at parahumans .wordpress .com. We'd love to hear your thoughts. What did you love? What did you hate? Anything you think we missed, etc. as long as it's kind. If you'd like to get in touch, you can find us on Twitter, threads, Instagram, TikTok, and Reddit at Brockton Bay, B .C. or click the link in the description.
Speaker: We have a very exciting announcement. We now have a voicemail, 980 -999 -0438. You can call us and your voicemail might be featured on one of our episodes.
Speaker: Do you still have bitter feelings about your ex and no way to get it out? Well, perhaps you could consider hiding it inside a worm related rant. Tell us all about how legend broke your heart or just how skitter won't call you back. We'll listen and air your grievances at 980 -999 -0438 on the podcast. That's right. Leave us a voicemail about your sad life at 980 -999 -0438.
Speaker: What triggered you?
