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Cultural Revival Mission: Tenacity, the Arts, and Rebirth
13 Plays1 month ago
In this Voice of Growth episode, Manny Teran sits down with filmmaker, critic, and preservation leader Herb Stratford — the force behind the $14M restoration of Tucson’s Fox Theatre and the upcoming rebirth of the 1915 Teatro Carmen in Barrio Viejo. Herb explains why old theaters are more than pretty buildings: they’re where communities learned how to feel together. He talks about sneaking into the Fox as a young photographer, quitting his job to save it, and refusing to quit even when everyone told him it was taking too long. We dig into how you reopen a theater without erasing the neighborhood it sits in, what “experience” means in an age of 75-inch home screens and AI, and why the future of culture is still in-person, on stage, with other humans.
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Transcript
Passion for Theater Restoration
00:00:04
Speaker
The voice of growth, mastering the mind and market.
00:00:09
Speaker
It was in bad shape, but it just, it it was the heart of that community. They were too expensive, a lot of them, to tear down. Something about it just touched me. It was so massive, it was so beautiful, it was so crying for help.
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm quitting my job, I'm gonna go restore the Fox Theater. and Yeah, I think I can make this work. and i feel like my experiences have created the person that I am.
00:00:36
Speaker
This is such an important piece of Tucson's history that it's just it's an honor to be involved with it.
00:00:43
Speaker
Have faith, things will work out.
The Role of Historical Theaters
00:00:47
Speaker
When you walk into a dead theater
00:00:52
Speaker
and you smell that smell, the the the sort of dusky, musky smell, There's pigeons in there. You hear them cooing in the background. You see light up in the ceiling.
00:01:06
Speaker
What is it that tells you that thing still has life? You know, I think it it's a combination of things. I think it's the notion that pretty much every, and I'm not even going to say city, I'm going to say every town in America had movie theaters.
00:01:25
Speaker
And not just one, but a lot of times, like in Tucson, we had five or six downtown. So it's the fact that these buildings were created for communal entertainment experiences.
00:01:37
Speaker
And there's just sort of a, there's sort of ah a sense when you walk into a place that that that things happened here that were positive, that were happy. You know, a lot of my theater colleagues are like, oh, this theater has a ghost or that theater. Everybody likes to have a ghost story.
00:01:53
Speaker
I prefer to think about it like there's a positive energy story in these spaces. And it's because there was so many so much laughter. There was so much smiling. There was, you know, maybe some tears at the right time.
00:02:05
Speaker
um But it's not like this is a mortuary or someplace where you know like something had people gathered to mourn. It's people gathered to celebrate being human.
Cultural Revival and Challenges
00:02:16
Speaker
And I think that those spaces, there's been the comment before that movie theaters were sort of the churches of the early 20th century because that's where people gathered. And I think that's what it is. I think it's about a community space, and there's just an energy you get from these spaces that...
00:02:32
Speaker
And I'll be honest with you, even places like there was a theater in Casa Grande that they tore down a couple of years ago that I visited. And i was I was sad. I mean, it was in bad shape, but it just it it was the heart of that community.
00:02:44
Speaker
Right. i remember grew So i grew up in Douglas on the border. And we had a theater. It wasn't very glorious. It was kind of crappy. It was an old... It wasn't Quonset hut, but it was that kind of material. stop up. It was basically paneling and it was the Alco Twin Cinema.
00:03:02
Speaker
Okay. And it initially was one giant movie theater and then they broke it down and into two. And I remember I went to see Return of the Jedi there. Okay. Right? And I remember ah the sticky floors and the popcorn. Of course, this is a different, this is in this in the late 70s, early 80s.
00:03:21
Speaker
So definitely not the glory days of what you kind of work on. But I remember it was a sense of a destination. As a kid, hey, mom, can we go to the theater? And it was sort of a thing.
00:03:32
Speaker
And so I know that you've done work across 20 states. and and you're basically a you know i was trying to figure out some words to define you let me know if you figure that out well exactly it's difficult but the the terms that were kind of there sort of teasing me along were was this concept of a cultural revival missionary oh okay i like that yeah the idea of of cultural revival
00:04:04
Speaker
Also touches your other works of being an artist, being a movie critic and all that. um And then the missionary is is sort of, we'll call it an applied missionary, where you're going in, you're evangelizing, but you're also doing the hard work.
00:04:19
Speaker
You've given me a tour of the Teatro Carmen, which we'll get to in a second. And this isn't like some pristine, know, Trevi Fountain situation. This is rough. Yeah, they never are. I mean, you know, for the most part, these theaters all suffered from, you know, sort of the growth of the suburbs and and and white flight and all that stuff. So these spaces, they were too expensive, a lot of them to tear down, which is why they're still there. So they're dying. We call it death by neglect. Right. So, you know, when the roof starts leaking, nobody fixes it. And then that sort of leads to it. And sometimes owners are just hoping that these places will collapse of their own volition so they can't be accused of, you know, tearing things down.
00:04:59
Speaker
um But to your point, you know, yeah, I've worked in, i think, 24
Fox Theater Restoration Journey
00:05:03
Speaker
states now. And, you know, I tend to work in, and don't want to say smaller communities, but I mean, I don't work. I haven't done work in Los Angeles or New York, Manhattan, really.
00:05:13
Speaker
um But I've worked in, you know, a bunch of different towns in Oregon. I've got a client in Milwaukee right now. I've got a client in Butte, Montana that I'm doing work on. So, you know, there are literally... theaters almost everywhere still, right? It's just a question of can they be saved? Should they be saved? What would they be used for in the future? Because a single purpose property like a movie theater doesn't really make a lot of sense, you know? Yeah, this is actually a really good segue into one of my favorite places in town, the Fox Theater.
00:05:42
Speaker
So you were instrumental in raising the over 14 million bucks. You got the community behind it and you transformed this decrepit situation into a bit of an economic engine for downtown Tucson, perhaps even could be called a catalyst for the revival of what happened afterwards and so forth.
00:06:05
Speaker
Give us a story of of how that happened. So it's it's funny, my wife, ah who you know, it does not like me to tell this story the way I tell it, but I'm going to do it anyway. um When I was getting my undergraduate degree in photography at the University of Arizona, I had sort of a ah sir I want to say an obsession, but definitely a passion for downtown at the time, which was largely in bad shape. So abandoned motels, abandoned movie theaters, you know, this before the Rialto was redone, before the Fox was redone.
00:06:36
Speaker
So I used to go on these little photo safaris and sometimes I would, you know, sort of bend the rules a little bit to get into places. And somebody had told me, they said, oh, well have you been in the old Fox theater? And I said, well, no, but um but can I? And they said, and I said, where is it? Cause the sign in the marquee was gone at that point.
00:06:54
Speaker
And they said, oh, well, it's on Congress Street, you know, it's Stone or whatever. And so they connected me with a guy who knew how to get in. And so I didn't tell my then girlfriend, now wife, did not tell her where I was going because I knew she'd say, don't do that.
00:07:09
Speaker
And we ended up getting into the theater and I And I just I fell in love with the Fox. Something about it just touched me. It was so massive. It was so beautiful. It was so crying for help.
00:07:19
Speaker
So took photos, left, and, you know, for years carried around this torch, of probably about 10 years, ah just thinking, oh, my God, if I could just fix the Fox Theater, everything would be amazing.
00:07:32
Speaker
And then. got invited to go in through the front door officially. And that was a very different experience. And what I saw in that 10 year period was there had been 42 homeless people living there. There had been a lot of vandalism. There had been spray painting. There had been you know just a lot of stuff. The roof was leaking very badly.
00:07:50
Speaker
And so at that point left and said, all right, Let's go start a nonprofit. So we started a nonprofit. We got a post office box. We filed for nonprofit status and we just started working. And two years later, we approached the then owner and said, can we buy this from you? And we came up with terms that were very reasonable for a new nonprofit.
00:08:10
Speaker
and we And I came home and said to my wife, I'm quitting my job. I'm going to go restore the Fox Theater. And she said, really? Wow. To her credit, she let me do it. So yeah, that was the beginning of of nine years of of work.
00:08:23
Speaker
That's remarkable. Yeah. and That's remarkable. I mean, this podcast is about the mind and the market. Obviously, the Fox found a market. There's a niche there. there's I've seen a handful, you know probably a dozen things there over the years.
00:08:37
Speaker
um And certainly the mindset and the ah grit required. Did you ever think in those nine years, was there a moment when you said, you know what, I'm going to pull the plug?
00:08:49
Speaker
No, you know, I don't think I did. i don't know if it's just because I'm stubborn. um I'm really stubborn. I think it was just I could always see the vision and I knew that um that it needed to happen and that I could make it happen.
00:09:03
Speaker
It's funny, people would say to me after, so it took us about seven years to get it open and then I ran it for two years before I left. um People would say to me, oh, you know, this is such an interesting job and did you go to school for it? And I said,
00:09:14
Speaker
no, I just sort of made it up. You know, I was just like, this is what I want to do. I'm going figure this out. And I, you know, to others credit, I went to the League of Historic American Theaters Conference, and i met people and I, you know, so it's like I sort of felt my way through it.
00:09:28
Speaker
um But it was, it was really, i mean, even though we had tremendous obstacles to overcome, i never really, honestly, and I mean, I just was like, I'm just, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna keep doing it, you know? And to my wife's credit, to my family's credit, everyone was very supportive because they could have been like, look, this ain't working.
00:09:47
Speaker
You know, this is taking a long time. There was a time when city council said, you know, it's taking too long. What are you doing? And it's like, we're going as fast as we can. yeah You know, these
Exploring Cultural Identity
00:09:57
Speaker
things take time. so Yeah, that's that's the thing about entrepreneurs and and missionaries like yourself, that we're just tenacious. I'm very i'm cut from a very similar cloth.
00:10:09
Speaker
I get my my teeth on something and I don't want to let go. And to pry me ah you know off of that is sort of monumental feat. I mean, this podcast is the the rebirth of a previous podcast I had with my former partner and I'm i'm not quitting, right? This is it. i love it. And I'm running a company in town and for a labs, love that organization.
00:10:34
Speaker
And, you know, so I'm excited about these opportunities. Speaking of opportunities, tell us about the Teatro Carmen. So that i was very thankful for visiting that place.
00:10:48
Speaker
I know it's got a lot of history behind it. It's my mother's name. That's right. so that So I have some ties to that, actually, her married name as well. So it's kind of nice. Tell us about the story of of that. Yeah. So um ironically, before I even did the Fox, I had seen the Teatro Carmen space in the sort of mid-90s, early to mid-90s. I had seen the space. I was working for the Tucson Arts District Partnership, which was a ah nonprofit that ah was established to sort of help ah bring downtown back in the in the late 80s, early 90s.
00:11:21
Speaker
And we would visit spaces a lot of times to see if there were, you know, maybe artist works, to live space or whatever opportunities. And so I had seen the Teatro Carmen and for some weird reason, I did not take any pictures. Like i didn't have my camera with me, which is very strange for me at the time. Of course, now we all have a camera, but at the time it was, you know, 35 millimeter.
00:11:40
Speaker
And so I'd seen the theater and I just sort of filed it away in the back of my brain, like, oh, that's an interesting space. um So then, you know, fast forward, you know, 20 some odd years, you know, almost 30 years. And I get a phone call from a friend of mine, Damien Klinko, and he says,
00:11:56
Speaker
He says, I've got a project for you. And I said, no, no, no, no. no I'm fine. Don't need any help. you know um I got a film festival I'm running. I got this. I got my consulting, you know everything. and um And he said, Teatro Carmen. And I said, oh, I said, OK, I'll come look. And I and i and i knew intrinsically, if I walked in the building, I knew that I'd be like, OK, I got to do it. Because nobody else really was situated to do it.
00:12:19
Speaker
And the Rawlings family, Kelly Rawlings had bought the building. um He started buying property in Barrio Viejo right after the TCC was getting built. He was trying to save the barrio, which was very noble of him. And so the Rawlings family have been really great and trump think think they still own 20 plus properties in the neighborhood.
00:12:34
Speaker
And they were finally to the point where they were like, you know what? This isn't a residence. This isn't a retail space. We want to do this. We want to put this back as a theater, but we need somebody who knows how to do that. And so they said, yes, we'd like to work with you. And so that was the beginning in October of 2019 when I sort of walked back through and I'm like, yeah, I think I can make this work. And again, you know, I'm working in, I've worked in 24 different states. So to do another project at home was really attractive, right? Just because I don't have to get on a plane. Now, granted my clients, I don't raise the money for them. I just help them figure it out.
00:13:10
Speaker
This one I have to raise the money for so that was another sort of chunk to bite off but um This property we ended up buying it not until like 21 because of COVID and we were doing research on you know business models and the status of the building and everything so we started in 21 we brought on Pima County as ah Sort of a partner with
Teatro Carmen Revival Plans
00:13:28
Speaker
us. They actually physically own the property at this point but I have a development agreement to raise the money and restore the building and then I have an operating agreement to operate the building So it's a 1915 theater space. It started its life as an 1860s house. It became a theater in 1915. It was only a theater until 1921. It did other things. It was a fish import business. It was an auto repair shop. It was ah an African-American social club, the Elks, the Black Elks, and it was a storage place. And so we are now turning it back in to the theater space. It'll be 300 seats, 500 standing, 300 sitting.
00:14:03
Speaker
ah five hundred standing three hundred sitting ah And they'll be an attached bar and restaurant and an outdoor patio, which I've never really done before any kind of theaters that we've worked on have been more Concession based, you know, like beer and wine and popcorn candy, whatever So this is a new model that I have not worked on we will be bringing in a third party restaurant operator because I'm crazy, but I'm not that crazy. not run a restaurant. For sure. So, yeah. So we're, and you need to come back because since you've been there, we've done a lot of work. um
00:14:34
Speaker
I've raised about half the money. And so we're still thinking we'll be open in 27. That's fantastic. Yeah. the The interesting thing about what you're doing with the Teatro Carmen is that, you know, I look a lot of at trends, what's happening in the world.
00:14:48
Speaker
And there's some interesting things at play that you're literally skating to where the puck is going to be. you know All of us are are basically, especially the younger generation are tied to these things, but there's a bit of a resurgence in ah IRL, in real life opportunities and a space where you can watch a concert, ah attend a concert, you can have a beer, have some food, have a community space on the outdoor. I mean, that's all coming together.
00:15:18
Speaker
and the fact it's in the the heart of the barrio You've got the Cornet next door, you've got the TCC, you've got Caterpillar down the road, you've got the Mercado, you have all these things that are the the confluence of culture and community is just right there.
00:15:34
Speaker
So that's pretty exciting. It is, and I think you know the fact that we, as you mentioned, Barrio Viejo is the largest existing barrio in the United States, and it's about to be named National Historic Landmark. And so being a part of that neighborhood and being a key part of that neighborhood is really critical.
Evolution of Communal Spaces
00:15:50
Speaker
um And also I think what's interesting is Uh, the way that, uh, you're talking about following trends. Um, what people are seeing now is in these shared, uh, entertainment venues, right? These, these, these spaces like historic theaters or, or even sporting events to some degree.
00:16:06
Speaker
Um, they're seeing a decline in alcohol sales. and that's as people are just sort of experiencing things differently you know sometimes maybe they're having gummies or whatever but it's there is sort of a return you know like yeah you can watch anything you want on your phone but seeing it in a room in a dark room 40 feet wide you know ah that is transformative and that is of course we think about the movies and the rise of the movies they were considered low class right live entertainment was always sort of the king and the movies were for the masses opiate for the masses And so these palaces that were built, which is sort of the sort of the passion area that I have, is they were escapes for people. And the late 20s, the Depression, all that kind of thing, come into these places, forget your troubles, be entertained, and then you know sort of that's sort of a respite from the world.
00:16:55
Speaker
When we were doing The Fox, we ended up talking to people who have since passed, but they would be like, oh yeah, we would ride our horses downtown, right? Look at the marquee, then put our horses in the stable La Placita, come over, and you had carpeting on the floor. We didn't have carpeting in our house. We had dirt floors.
00:17:14
Speaker
ah You had indoor bathrooms. I mean, you know, and this is 1930, so this is not, you know, like 1800s. So it was ah it was an opportunity for people to sort of, again, experience a different world. And that...
00:17:28
Speaker
you know, the Carmen is not that theater, right? You know, to be perfectly clear, one of the other reasons that the Carmen appealed to me was the fox is a certain animal. The fox is The big, sexy, gold-leaf, plaster, murals, you know, 1200-seat theater on Main Street.
00:17:43
Speaker
um Not literally, it's on Congress. but um And then the Carmen is the Spanish-language theater. It was in the barrio. It was for a different audience. You know, it's a third the size of the Fox.
00:17:55
Speaker
So to me, that was sort of an interesting challenge not to replicate what I've already done, you know. um or what I even work on in other places. It's just like, this is such an important piece of Tucson's history that it's just its an honor to be involved with it.
00:18:08
Speaker
I'm sure. One of the things I talk about a lot with my clients and just in general is the idea of identity. and how you can really change behavior, how you can really advance your career forward is if you focus on identity rather than just goals, right? Rather than just, you know, you you create identity by building habits and systems and then goals are like in kind of just a mile marker along the way. yeah Where did you decide in your career that you wanted to do this for a living? I mean, imagine, i can't imagine how that ever became thing.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good question. um i think I think my sheer stubbornness was, again, the initiative was like, I'm going to restore this theater without having Well, just in general, not just that one. But but yeah, but you know what I mean? and that was and and you know that was a journey where I had two degrees in art. So my my options as a career were you know certainly you know either you teach or you know you just that you're not going to do something in the arts.
00:19:11
Speaker
So... Once I did this, once I did the Fox and I had nine years under my belt, I sort of stepped back and when I, when I left the Fox as the, as the, um, as the executive director and it was like, okay, I did the Fox.
00:19:26
Speaker
This is not a career that you could do in Tucson, right? There's not like, you know, a line of 10 more theaters that we can restore and I'm just going to be that guy. So it was like, do I take these nine years of experience and what do I do with that?
00:19:39
Speaker
And is that something again, I didn't have a degree because there really isn't a degree. So how do I turn that into a career, my experience and in a very niche, you know, a niche that is very underfunded because most of these projects are nonprofits.
00:19:54
Speaker
But that was something where it was sort of a conscious effort. Well, you know what? um I guess I'm a consultant then. I guess that's something that I can share my information, which in a way is what I want to do, but I want to get paid for it obviously. Right.
00:20:08
Speaker
But I mean, you know, the, the secret to this is I would probably do it anyway, but I got bills to pay, you know, it's just like, that's something where, you know, I'm following my passion more or less to do it, but it really wasn't a cognizant thing. Like, okay, this is going to be a
Career Path and Influences
00:20:22
Speaker
career path. It was like, oh, well, these are my skills and, you know, and I did a lot of fundraising for the Fox, but.
00:20:29
Speaker
I really find that I can only fundraise for something that I'm very passionate about. So for me to just go off and be a hired gun, a development person, I don't know if I could do that. right you know So that's why everything that I do from documentary films to you know to the Carmen, to whatever, it's something that I'm...
00:20:46
Speaker
involved in, but it's not like something that's going to get me rich. It's just something I'm passionate. Right. I'm a huge fan of the idea of the butterfly effect. Yes. These little minute things. I mean, for me, in my career, there's been moments that have defined my future.
00:21:05
Speaker
Looking back, they were so incidental, like when you were first looking inside the fox and all that. I mean, that's a little tiny butterfly effect, right? yeah And for me, I've had just momentous times in my life when I'm like, I look back, I'm like, I really changed the course of my life because of this one event.
00:21:23
Speaker
I was part of a fraternity. I almost didn't join. Some guy came in, he gave me a flyer. ah threw it in my bag. I didn't even think about it. and then a week later, I pulled that out of my bag and I said, hey, there's free hot dogs. Should we go to a buddy mine? And that launched my whole trajectory. And that kept me in engineering school.
00:21:41
Speaker
That really a lot of my friends and colleagues were attorney members. And so that one flyer. Yeah. It's insane. It is. Yeah. So let's downshift a bit and talk about your work as a filmmaker, critic, filmmaker.
00:21:56
Speaker
the festival guy. Tell me about that part of your life. So when I was doing the Fox, ah we did a um ah film festival called Puro Mexicano. And it was a it was a sort of like the first Mexican film festival in the United States. And we did it with the film office and with some other folks.
00:22:16
Speaker
And the idea was to have it happen at the Fox. um But we weren't quite ready in 2005. So it happened at the TCC. And then we did it a couple more years after that. but that sort of got me in the in the film festival vibe i'm kind of like oh well this is this is sort of cool and so then you know we that first festival spawned it and then it just sort of grew from there um where i was hired i was the um the program director at the napa valley film festival for a couple years i did sonoma did mendocino um i uh
00:22:47
Speaker
I did, um I still do Vero Beach, Florida and Long Beach, New York. But what I saw when I was in Napa, I was like, you know, i think Tucson needs to have a higher level film festival and more of a Napa experience that blends food and just sort of a higher elevated experience, both for filmmakers and for for audiences, because I didn't see that happening in town.
00:23:04
Speaker
So my wife and I and another partner, we started Film Fest Tucson, which we have done eight times in the last nine years, we had a COVID year in there. And that was sort of an an and and offshoot of what I'm always doing, which is connecting artists with audiences.
00:23:22
Speaker
And so I really saw that as you know a way for us to, for me as ah as a film guy, and and now I've been a film critic for almost a decade, um seeing so much content but it not always getting in front of audiences and so it's like how can i curate that and make sure that these amazing films are seen by people and sharing those stories so that you know that sort of happened um and then the offshoot of that of course is if you're watching several thousand movies a year you know you start to say oh that works and that doesn't work and then i have literally i have a list of probably 15 20 projects that i would like to make documentaries about i don't think i'm going to get through them all
00:24:00
Speaker
um But knowing what I know from being a critic and being a programmer at film festivals, i know i know more about what works and what's interesting. And so that's, I sort of try to focus on on those projects that have an audience and potentially, you know, I have access to
Future of Film and Entertainment
00:24:16
Speaker
that content. so We've done a number of short films. We did one feature documentary that was released by First Run Features in 21, and I'm working on working on a lot of stuff. It all comes down to money. Of course.
00:24:30
Speaker
Let me ask you a question, and this is going to be an interesting answer because I've never had somebody more qualified on the other side of this table to answer it. Okay. I purport that...
00:24:42
Speaker
Dwayne the Rock Johnson might be the last ever super megastar. That everybody behind him is going to be lesser because now you're getting more indie movies. People are literally filming movies on their iPhone. You have social media content.
00:25:01
Speaker
You have all these other things happening. I mean, what we you feel about that comment? and you feel free to disagree. i No, no, i think i think I think it is an interesting idea. And and we have these conversations, um ah critic friends and I. um I was just in L.A. for a Netflix event for Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein movie, and we were talking sort of about some of the same stuff where you know, somebody like The Rock or John Cena or even Dave Bautista, you know, there they came into the movies with their huge wrestling cred.
00:25:33
Speaker
And so they came in with their multi-millions of social media users, which really enabled them to make that leap. But to your point, you know, i mean, when I was a kid, there was four TV stations, right? You know, there was no internet, there was, you know, none of that stuff.
00:25:48
Speaker
So the idea that um your choice as a consumer... what kind of content you consume has been so splintered getting that movie star right at that level.
00:25:59
Speaker
You know you think about a Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford or some of these guys that are later in their career. Well, they started in the 70s when we still had these issues, right? We still had this really constricted market.
00:26:10
Speaker
So I think you're right. um I think what's interesting about The Rock is he's... Hopefully he won't burst through the door and hit me. um the The Rock for me is is my third favorite wrestling guy on on and the movies. um i think um I think John Cena has made the the most sort of smartest moves in terms of his career choices.
00:26:32
Speaker
um He's still keeping a foot in wrestling. I just saw he's going to do something. I think that Dave Bautista has made some really smart choices in terms of the content that he's done. He's made some horrible choices too. But um I think The Rock, and it's interesting with that um with that movie that he just did about the wrestler, um I'm blanking on the name of it right now, but you know it was ah it was a bid.
00:26:50
Speaker
It was a clear bid on his part to be taken seriously and not doing... Jumanji or... you mind you Yeah, I mean, just doing goofy things, which certainly play to his base, right? They want to see him have a good time and be funny, but it's not serious. And I think that's what's interesting is Batista has very openly said, I'm done doing even the things that made me money, like Guardians of the Galaxy. He's like, I want serious roles. I don't want to do goofy stuff where I've got a lot of makeup on.
00:27:15
Speaker
I think the rock's in that place too. He's like, you know what? I've made all the money I need to make. um I want to be taken seriously as an artist. And so I think you're right. I think he may be because he's bringing that audience to the table that crosses so many different genres.
00:27:30
Speaker
And I don't know how somebody, you think about a Taylor Swift, not that she's acting, but you know, that kind of, that kind of fandom that Taylor has, I don't know that that translates. Like if she all a sudden said, I'm a movie star, I don't, I don't know if that would be the
Cultural and Personal Influences
00:27:45
Speaker
same yeah thing. Yeah, would different. you know Yeah, so I think he may be, which is sort of a weird place to be in. No, for sure.
00:27:51
Speaker
That's of an odd place. This brings us to another segue. Tell us a little bit about your youth. Where'd you grow up? Sure. I'm a Midwestern boy. I grew up in the North Shore of Chicago.
00:28:06
Speaker
So I was there from was born there and then I was there from four to 14. And then my parents moved us to Phoenix when I was starting high school, ah which was a very dramatic change, you know, to go from Chicago to to Phoenix, Arizona and um and did high school in Phoenix and then came down to Tucson to go to school and have been here ever since.
00:28:29
Speaker
um I, you know, I grew up as ah my parents were both art history majors. And so I grew up surrounded by, ah you know, masterpiece theater on TV, civilization on TV, the great sort of, you know, sort of classical education. I grew up going to the Chicago Symphony. I grew up going to museums in Chicago.
00:28:49
Speaker
ah So that's sort of that liberal arts background, I think, is what sort of formed me. And I'm thankful to my parents that, you know, they, know, let me buy every Hardy Boys book so I could read them. You know what I mean? it yeah And do the stuff that I think, you know, sometimes kids don't have access to because the world is so different.
00:29:05
Speaker
So I think that formed a large part of who I am and my interest in, you know, like when I go someplace, first place I travel, first place I want to figure out is what are the museums in that town?
00:29:15
Speaker
Right. Or, and then it's historic theaters and can I talk my way in? So, yeah. so I mean, this is, you know, it's it's funny. There's so many people in in Arizona that are from Chicago. It's almost it's almost laughable, you know? so um So, it was it was a definitely a cultural difference. It was, you know, but I think Phoenix has done a good job. Phoenix Art Museum is is wonderful right now.
00:29:37
Speaker
um But, you know, at the time, Phoenix in 1979 was pretty bad. Yeah, for sure. No, that's interesting is I do have a lot of friends that are from the Midwest that moved here.
00:29:49
Speaker
There was an odd connection between Tucson in particular and Michigan. People that i went to school with, their parents were from there and there's this weird thing that happened. So that's interesting.
00:30:00
Speaker
What do you see as the future of entertainment? Like we're talking about all these elements of social media, AR, VR, AI.
00:30:11
Speaker
i mean, what's going to be the thing that you see the future looking like? I think, ah you know, the the big scare and everybody's aware of it um with the whole, you probably remember that whole thing about an AI artist, that Tilly artist, right? The actor being sort of launched and everyone freaking out. um I think there's still an appreciation for authenticity. I think there's still an appreciation for ah for cultural heritage. I think there's still an appreciation for um gathering in spaces.
00:30:40
Speaker
Now, having said that, um for a lot of our clients, and even when I was running the Fox, my but my clients for other theaters, Um, we talk about the fact that, you know, if you're competing with somebody's 70 inch TV and their surround sound and everything else, and they can pause and go to the bathroom or get a snack or whatever, how do you make those experiences in a cinema or even a concert or whatever that is?
Modern Theater Experiences
00:31:03
Speaker
How do you make them, um, Irreplaceable and I think it's the experience. Okay, so I'll give you an example um two different things that we did at the Fox one ah Right around the time that King Kong the Peter Jackson remake King Kong was coming out I knew that just showing the original King Kong would be just, okay, fine, that's just, I could see that, you know, I could get it on TV or whatever.
00:31:25
Speaker
So, turns out Faye Ray's daughter lived in Tucson. I got her to come and do a talk and bring artifacts that I had on display in the lobby. Number two, I put a 40-foot inflatable gorilla on the roof for Fox. That helps.
00:31:39
Speaker
All of a sudden, it's an event, right? Another event, we ran the full-length Wizard, not Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, which is like three and a half hours long. It's just crazy.
00:31:51
Speaker
And it wasn't just running the Gone with the Wind. I had the entire staff. I worked with ah with a costume shop here in town, and we all were dressed in costumes from from the Civil War, right?
00:32:03
Speaker
So that kind of creating an experience that has to be you know, has to be taken. That's also sort of blends into film festivals because one of the reasons you go to film festivals is there's filmmakers there and you can ask them questions and you can talk.
00:32:15
Speaker
So that sort of experiential thing, which I think is interesting from the music side, that's when you're seeing these up sales, right? Where you've got like, oh, you can buy your ticket to see this band, but if you pay this much more, you're in the golden circle and you get a special lanyard and you might have a meet and greet and you might do whatever, you can get a beverage.
00:32:31
Speaker
That's that experience that they're trying to upsell and get people to do. And I think that's the way In my mind, I think we're going to see people doing less events, but they're going to want to spend more money to have an experience.
00:32:43
Speaker
So that's you have to balance that. like what is your What is your end goal? like if you're If you're a building that only does one thing, you're limited. So that's why like for us at the Carmen, we're gonna be busy 350 days a year. Because if I'm not doing a banquet or a quinceanera, I'm doing a movie or a play or you music. So how flexible can you be? Because you want you don't wanna have one audience. You wanna have people coming to you 12 times a year.
00:33:09
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's that hits the the mark. I think organizations that have a historic foothold on something need to be much more nimble in being able to bring on other opportunities.
00:33:24
Speaker
And I think it's partnerships too. You know what i mean? It's like we do this with our film festival every year. If there's somebody that, but if I have a film that resonates with a certain audience, I'll give you an example. For the film festival this year, we've pivoted to doing year-long screenings with the U of A Arizona Arts Live.
00:33:40
Speaker
And, you know, when I look at my films that I'm programming, I'm thinking, okay, well, where's the connection point, right? So we just did something about a month ago, where it's about it was a documentary about JFK's personal photographer, Jacques Lowe, who was with him in the White House and through Camelot.
00:33:56
Speaker
And um so what did I do? Well, immediately I talked to the Center for Creative Photography, you know, and then we ended up having David Hume Kennerly here and the director was here and it created more of an event. It wasn't just come see a movie. It was like, come see the movie and then hear these guys talk about photographing presidents and all that kind of stuff. And that's, you know, now can you do that every weekend? No.
00:34:18
Speaker
You can't. It's not physically possible, right? So, you know, that's the trick is, you know, there's so much distraction. Like when we looked at our film festival schedule, it was always like, is there a U of A football game that weekend?
00:34:29
Speaker
Not that film festival is the same audience as the football game, but it's just like at some point. It's pulling resources. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, attention has always been a currency, but it's never been more valuable than Yeah, scarcity.
00:34:42
Speaker
and And how do you and how do you do that? You know, like, what is your selling point? What is your you know, is it is it is it the experience? Is it the cost? Is it the availability of parking and, you know, adjacent restaurants like all those things come into play?
00:34:54
Speaker
And I think, you know, like I think about when we were growing up, all the retail now. Now you don't do anything, right? I mean, like we used to spend a Saturday doing errands trying to find a pair of shoes or something. Now you just order them and they're here the next day, you know? And that's that's a different world. So how do you be nimble, to your point, and adapt and try and, you know, retain some of that audience? And I think it's got to be experiential.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, totally agree. Speaking of that, if I hand you a magic phone right now. Okay. And I dial a number I hand you the phone and it's you at 18 years old.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah. What would you tell yourself?
00:35:35
Speaker
Chill out. um You know, that's a good question. I think, um I don't know that anybody could have...
00:35:46
Speaker
um
00:35:49
Speaker
I don't know that I would have done a lot differently than what I've done. um You know, sometimes people are like, oh, would say don't get in that car or don't, you know, don't whatever. I mean, I feel like my experiences have created the person that I am. Right. You know what i mean? And I don't know that.
00:36:05
Speaker
um Now, certainly there was, you know, there's angst in your life and, you know, um but I mean, I feel like. You know, the butterfly effect, to go back to your reference there, it's like, I feel like the things that have happened to put me on the course that I'm on and the path that I'm on.
00:36:19
Speaker
So I don't know that I would change that much, except I mean, maybe I would just sort of.
Life Reflections and Relationships
00:36:25
Speaker
slow down and just sort of enjoy the ride a little bit more, you know, because it's like when we get to this point in our life, we're like, oh, wow, you know, that's like where, you know, we look back at some things and we think about, oh, I was friends with that person and maybe should just talk to that person differently or met that person or something.
00:36:40
Speaker
But I don't really i don't. Yeah, I don't know. I think I think just, you know, have faith. Things will work out. It's powerful. Yeah. So we're going take that same phone. We're going to punch a couple different numbers. And now you're going to ask a question of 80 year old.
00:36:55
Speaker
Okay. Of myself. Um, and I think I would say, Hey, I made it to 80. That'd be my first response. Am I really there?
00:37:07
Speaker
Um,
00:37:11
Speaker
You know, i think um I think to that perspective, I think I'm probably saying the same thing, which is why it's really good advice to ask these questions to yourself. It's like, you know, who is in your life that you need to make sure that you spend time with? You know, um who do you who do you wish that you had spent more time with? Who do you wish you had asked these questions about?
00:37:28
Speaker
I think it's interesting that a lot of times as as. grownups like we are, we are so busy with our life, we don't stop to think about asking the people who are our parents or our grandparents or whatever, you know, for their story, because they don't necessarily, you know, it's not written down anywhere. and now with the impermanence of digital photography and everything else, like, you know, we used to have scrapbooks full of photos and they're all there and they could all be gone tomorrow and you're never going to print them all. There's, you know, 10,000 photos on your phone.
00:38:00
Speaker
And so I think that would be like, you know, take the, you know, who, who should I talk to or who am I gonna, you know, who am I gonna miss? Who do you miss the most, right? That you wish you spent more time with. I think that's the thing I'd ask.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah. That question I, every time I ask it, I ponder my own question and, um, it changes slightly, but it goes back to the same thing. I mean, we, material goods, money, these things come and go.
00:38:25
Speaker
You know, I, I had a friend who lost their house, right? Burned down. Mm-hmm. And all their memories, everything was gone. And what do you do about that? You just keep on going. Yeah. And what's crazy is, you know, well our great grandparents are forgotten.
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, who knows who they are? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I still, I'm blessed to have my my grandmother still alive. Oh, nice. But not everybody does at my age. Right. And so it's just, it's a matter of enjoying what we have now. And this is why I fall back a lot on the stoic principles, but not letting the world sort of throw you around.
00:38:58
Speaker
You know, the world's gonna be there no matter what. It's gonna give you challenges and you can't control. You can't control the world. Just what's here. yeah Right? Yeah. um Any final thoughts for our audience regarding your journey, kind of what to expect next from you?
00:39:13
Speaker
You know, it's funny. um I feel like a lot of times you see people and it's everywhere from the stage at the Oscars or, you know, other places where people are being recognized for accomplishments. And I think that the common theme that I always seem to hear people say is don't give up and keep going. And, you know, if you're passionate about something, keep doing it.
00:39:35
Speaker
And while it sounds sort of goofy to say that, um, I think I think it's very valid. And I and but I think also, you know, at the back of my mind, I'm like, well, you know, I'm not going to be an astronaut, you know. So, I mean, there's certain honest, you know, sort of barriers to whatever you you know, it's not like if you dream it, you can do it. I mean, that's not I don't think that's really fair advice.
00:39:58
Speaker
um But I do think that what I found is it's very obvious um when young people are like in the right place. And I'll say that because like, um you know, we have interns sometimes for the film festival or, you know, I have people that, you know, i don't wanna say I mentor, cause I don't like that word, but you know, there's people that sort of are, you know, like,
00:40:21
Speaker
it's that 0.01% of people that actually do the work, right? And actually will figure out what's that guy doing or what's that woman doing? I want to figure that out. and i And I admire that. And I think that's, you know, if you can't chart your own course or if you're not crazy enough or don't have the support system, do some of this stuff like I did, um you know,
00:40:41
Speaker
figure it out. Where's your passion? you know what is your What
Pursuit of Television Projects
00:40:44
Speaker
is your love? And then don't, don't you know like ah one quick example, I've been developing film and film projects, which we sort of touched on, but also a bunch of television projects. And I'm going to tell you that in all of my life, I have never, this is the hardest nut to crack to get into the the television world. It is, film and TV is this incredibly closed system where they keep outsiders out and anybody with an idea, it's almost impossible to crack that.
00:41:08
Speaker
But I've been doing it for, I've been working on developing shows for the last seven years and I'm probably not going to give up you know, and that's part of that's my stubbornness. But also I feel like every no or every dead end or every shyster that I work with, I'm trying to get where I'm going.
00:41:26
Speaker
I learned something. And I don't let that beat me up. And it's just like, I'll probably go to my grave, not ah not accomplishing a bunch of stuff that I wanted to, but I won't go there bored. That's true.
00:41:38
Speaker
That's great advice. You know, i tell my kids and other people, young people in particular, that life and business is a full contact sport. You're going to get hurt. going to get beat up. you're going to hurt people. I mean, these are not to say you want to do it, but it's just the way it is. yeah And I also very much appreciate the idea of tenacity and and not giving up.
00:41:57
Speaker
And if you fall down, you know, you get back up, you dust yourself off, you learn something. Yeah. And you figure out a different approach for it. And I and i think being open to open to different ideas and open to experiences, you know, you can't just sit at home and wait for stuff to come to you.
00:42:12
Speaker
Go to the film mixer, meet these people. You know what i mean? Talk to these people and figure out how did they get where they they went. and And a lot of times people are happy to talk about themselves. Look at us.
00:42:24
Speaker
Very true. Well, thanks for your time, Herb. This has been an amazing opportunity. to share some of your thoughts get in your head and with that we'll sign off all right thanks cheers