Transcript
Speaker: You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Vellante. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer. This is Ken Vellante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. And we have a great guest, painter Gerald Von Sayak here, reaching him from Ohio. Hey, Gerald, welcome to Something Rather Than Nothing.
Speaker: Hello, and thank you. Thank you, Ken, for having me on the show. It's great to be here. Thank you. Thanks for being on the show. We start with the origin question here of you as an artist and ask all the guests that I have. Just wondering, when you were born, were you an artist? Yes, I think I was. I really do.
Speaker: I thought about this question. I thought about all the things that influenced me early on and all that stuff. But I can even think prior to those times when I felt drawn to do drawings or to do art or anything like that, I still was thinking creatively. I guess you could argue that a lot of children think creatively naturally. Maybe I wasn't that special or anything like that. All kids probably think creatively.
Speaker: I don't know. I was really like I was putting, you know, movies together in my head. At a really early age, I was absorbing music. Just stuff I heard on the radio. And I had a really good imagination. I really think there was like, like I had no choice in the matter. I had had I wanted to be an artist around like maybe age 10 or 11.
Speaker: Prior to that, I wanted to be an astronaut or an archaeologist. But even you think about that, there's that all of those kind of have that desire to explore. And so barring, you know, the immense amount of education that you need to be an astronaut and an archaeologist, I kind of threw that out because I knew that I probably would do better in the arts and and not I wasn't too good at math and not too good at all the other study things that you'd have to do to do those kind of
Speaker: job so it worked for me and so uh yeah i i can't think of a time when i didn't want to be an artist or a creative person yeah and i hear that um i hear that he's a good student but i think that's uh the artist report card when they're a good student but nope definitely i was a janitor no i'm kidding
Speaker: No, I was actually I have been a janitor for a very long time. Like I did that for years. But no, when I was born, I think I was a pretty creative thinker. Early on, in fact, as far back as I can remember, I was thinking about how perhaps being creative as a youth or like a very, very young person, kind of as typical of everyone. So I don't know if really that made me all that special at all. But
Speaker: Um, I sure didn't veer away from that too much. It didn't like all through my life. I didn't decide well enough of that creative thinking I'm going to go into medicine or something. Um, it just, nothing else swayed me ever. And so whether it was, um, coloring and coloring books or thinking about, you know, putting together my own movies in my head or just daydreaming a lot.
Speaker: which I heard a lot of that from my teachers. My report card's always had, Gerald's a good student, but he's, you know, needs to pay attention or, you know, I had a lot of that kind of like he daydreams a lot. And so I was guilty of doing that. And so I really do think that my head was always in art as a young person and as an adolescent and a teen and all the way up to adulthood.
Speaker: Yeah, a couple questions I had before we get to some of the other conceptual questions. I heard on a recent interview with you about the importance of a teacher when you were in high school.
Speaker: For my day job, I represent teachers and I'm very aware of the importance and influence they have. I didn't develop in the arts when I was younger. I think back all the time about the type of teachers you have and how they connect with
Speaker: you know, your talents and see who you are. And I think you had that experience with your, you know, mentor teacher. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how important that was for you identifying as an artist? Extremely important. Yes, it was. I always say that that was kind of the spark that started it all. Prior to meeting this teacher in high school,
Speaker: And it was my high school art teacher, Mr. Darrow. Prior to meeting him, everything was kind of like a soup in my mind, kind of a vague, I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know, you know, what exactly art was or what a career in art was. I just knew I liked it. I knew it was interesting. I knew I had some talent as far as drawing and painting. But I mean, I didn't know what to do with it. Like at the time,
Speaker: I'll give you a really fast anecdote, really, and it kind of shows how fate can step in, or how God can step in and just kind of steer you in the right direction. My choice when I went to high school, when you go to high school, you can choose electives.
Speaker: And I had either the choice of, well, I had any choice. I could do Spanish, foreign language, I could do biology, I could do art, computers. And at the time, I liked art, but I just was like, well, I like computers, too. So I chose computers. And of course, this was 1984, 85. So I mean, computers were pretty basic at the time. But anyway, that's what I signed up to do.
Speaker: And had it not happened the way it happened, which was in the middle of summer, I got a phone call from the school that said that the computer class is full. And do you have a, do you have an alternate choice? And just right off the top of my head, I'm like, uh, art. And I went to art. And if I don't think of that would have happened, who knows? You know, I might've been, I might be rich right now. I would have been working for Apple.
Speaker: But, you know, I chose, but I'm glad I didn't because I chose art and I, who knows, you know, I could have been, you know, oh my gosh, just to think about, you know, what was about to happen in 10 years. But anyway, I chose art and I'm glad I did. And then it really, you might, I mean, I think maybe there was no choice really. It was going to head that way anyway. No matter what, I met Mr. Darrow, my art teacher,
Speaker: who really was just I mean he was I said before in the Interview that I was in prior to this and I'll say it again there's an old saying that goes when the student is ready the teacher will appear and he appeared because I was ready and You know, I I gave him all the questions that were in my head I sorted out like, you know, what you know, what would this whole art thing was? I discovered that that's what I really wanted to do it excited me and I found out I was pretty good at it
Speaker: And and he was definitely somebody that didn't pull these punches He wasn't a teacher that wouldn't just shower you with praise constantly. In fact, he would always say like, okay enough praise You know, I'm not you know, get back to work and You know, yeah, he helped me a lot. He was a huge Influence and so I never I've had others prior after that in college and stuff like that But I think that was the turning point
Speaker: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Gerald. And thank you, Mr. Darrow. It's just wonderful to hear that connection.
Speaker: and to help you bring you into what your talents are. Gerald, I have the question I don't like to ask painters, but I have to rely on you as the painter up front. So anytime I interview painters, it's always a little bit weird kind of to talk about art, because painting being so visual and try to acquaint the audience
Speaker: Um, you know, with, with, with, with your art, but could, could you, could you, you spent a lot of years creating painting and creating can, can you tell the audience, you know, in, in general, what, what, what you're trying to do, uh, with, with your paintings and how you go about, uh, making them. Sure. Um, I'm trying to change lives again.
Speaker: No, I'm in a way that's really not that sounds facetious, but that's really not too far from the truth. I really do want to change you as a viewer. I want there to be what I'm trying to do with my paintings is create something that you won't forget when you leave the gallery. I do feel that a lot of art these days and a lot of art in general
Speaker: It's wall decoration. And it looks good in a living room or something like that. And that's all well and good. But I really, above all things, I want it to be a memorable or some kind of experience that you don't forget once you are not looking at the painting anymore. Those are my favorite kind of paintings. Ones that stick with you, get under your skin, make you think.
Speaker: And sometimes those aren't the pretty pictures. Sometimes they are. I'm not really good at pretty pictures. It just doesn't, it's not the kind of subject that I like to work with. Maybe someday that'll change because I sure know that I've seen pictures that, you know, they weren't, they didn't have to be Francisco Goya to make me interested in it. But I just sort of lean toward that darker kind of stuff. And so that's the kind of,
Speaker: The reason I make paintings, that's the experience that I want the audience to have upon seeing my work, which is stop, look, think about it. Maybe you might hate it, maybe you love it, but just feel something about it. I think the worst, I always tell a lot of my students, the worst compliment, I guess you would, I don't even know if I'd call it a compliment, the worst comment that you can get on your painting is, that's nice.
Speaker: You know, that is just nothing. That's a flat line. Either that or a lot of times people go, it's different. And it's just really, that's all it got. You know, that's as far as I got into your head. You know, that I want something, you know, if it's just repulsion. OK, fine. If it's laughter, great. You know, if it's if it's immediate interest and followed up by tons of questions,
Speaker: that's even better. But evasive flowers just doesn't do it for me. And even if it's really, really well painted, it just, especially these days when we're overloaded with images coming from all sides, from the internet, from just television and everywhere else, you know, you've got to, as an artist, you have an obligation, I think, to go a little higher and better and do something that takes your art
Speaker: above all that stuff. And, of course, engages the audience. The way I make paintings is just typical. I'm a traditional oil painter, so I paint mostly on oil on canvas, sometimes on board, usually in larger formats because I like attention.
Speaker: I want to stand out from the other people in the gallery, but I have to say that there is a lot of people that do small work that's just as powerful. I don't really care what size it is just as long as it hits you. It's you in the brain or in the heart or in the nerve endings.
Speaker: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Gerald. I'm a big fan of your art. And for me, the provocation is helpful, but the provocation for me as the viewer is on the basis of thought, like you said.
Speaker: to kind of, you know, crack your head a little bit. I'm really sympathetic to that. And then, you know, for me, kind of my general outlook in, you know, the work I do within labor or
Speaker: as an activist on social issues is, I really think it's so important for the disruption because for me personally, if I have a critique of what is or how things are, the disruption is that crack. When I look at your paintings, it's that crack, it's that agitation, it's that,
Speaker: Uh, you know for you for your brain to crack in there and saying well, what is this juxtaposition and it pulls you in and that's that's for me That's for me the the the the big draw. So um, i'm i'm rating tune as far as an audience with With what you're doing? Yes, uh, there was a um
Speaker: Gerald, let's move to the big question. We started to get into your art and how you make it, and we're using that term. And I think one of the best questions that I love to hear from anybody who dedicates a good chunk of their time, or maybe all of their time in thinking, into art. But what is art? Yeah.
Speaker: Art, well, that's a huge question. And I mean, you can get 100 responses that are all accurate. To me, just saying, to me, art is something perfect. It's like the best analogy I can think of is a hydrogen atom.
Speaker: as strange as that sounds, but if you take anything away from that atom, you know, a proton, a neutron or an electron, it ceases to be hydrogen and become something else. And so it's an elemental thing, the art is. And it, I'm good art, you know, there's, and then you then it begs the question, well, then what, you know, what things can qualify as art? And, you know, I've
Speaker: For a long time, I would say anything can be art. You could be a really good plumber and the plumbing that you do under somebody's sink can be an art form because you've done it so well and it's perfect and it's a work of art. You get a good guy to cut your hair or a good person to work on your car or something like that. They can be an artist. It's like, wow, he just does such a great job or she does such a great job.
Speaker: I don't know. I'm thinking, you know, I don't look at plumbing and it doesn't move me to think thoughts about the universe and, you know, it doesn't take me to a higher place. So maybe those things maybe should be kind of shifted over to the category of craft, craftsmanship. Art to me is something that is something greater than the sum of its parts.
Speaker: There's a painting, a sculpture, a music, a play, a novel, and then there's you. And then you interact with the thing, with the art. So that's one plus one. But the answer isn't two, it's three. Because it's you plus the art equals you and the art interacting, and also something else that comes naturally or just comes magically
Speaker: into your head, which is sort of your reaction to it. So it isn't just two things interacting. There's a third thing. There's sort of what it's doing to you. And if a work of art does something to you, and I've had art that's changed my entire life, like talking about when I met my high school art teacher prior to really getting to know him,
Speaker: I looked through a book of art, an art history book, and I saw a Salvador Dali painting. I mean, that is a landmark moment in my life. I saw that Salvador Dali painting, and I knew that was what I wanted to do. And so it was one plus one, me plus the Salvador Dali painting, didn't just equal the two things happening, it equaled this magic thing that happened in my brain. And so I'm hoping that when people look at my art,
Speaker: there is sort of some kind of magic. I don't know if that's the right term to use. It sounds kind of wonky, but something, there's a spark, something that never existed before comes into existence when you see and interact with really good art.
Speaker: Yeah, that's really powerful. I'm always fascinated by the painting or the painter that somebody sees.
Speaker: pulls into the artwork. For me, it wasn't when I was much younger. I was in high school as well. It wasn't my doing art, but it was my seeing art. And I studied Velasquez in high school and had some introduction. And then my senior year in high school, I was able to travel to Spain on a trip.
Speaker: and and go to the Prado and then and then see Velasquez and
Speaker: You know, sometimes as we try to describe this or you try to describe it, what was happening, right? Like what was going on as I stood in front of, you know, that painting saw it live and then said, whoa, there's something for me, it was, there's something much bigger to this world than I've encountered before. It was that there was something much bigger and profound. Yeah. Yeah. It comes from the best art for sure.
Speaker: So Gerald, another question I have, which is a little bit of a constituent, and for some folks it's an origin question again, but talking about influence of people and things, what or who made you who you are? What made me what I am is, that's probably the toughest one,
Speaker: Um, like I can't really put it on one person. I could say my parents made me who I am because they were my biggest influence from age one to 10 or something like that. And then there's all the instructors that I've, um, come across and then, you know, I mean, the clash made me who I am. The pink Floyd made me who I am. Salvador Dali made me who I am. Um, uh, Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker: David Lynch made me who I am. These are all like just elements in the stew that got poured into me, into my head. And, you know, these are the things that I attach to. These are the things that for some reason made me perk my ears up and saying, Oh, that's something I want to look into a little more. There's been, you know, there was art and other influences that came to me as a youth and just pass through me. Like, I just didn't get into
Speaker: certain things. Country and Western music didn't stick with me, but punk did. That meant something to me. I wanted to look into that a little bit more. I was shaped really by music a lot when I was young. I really had gotten into music. I had no desire to become a musician, although I did buy a guitar once.
Speaker: in college, I went nowhere, all I could do was make a feedback and, you know, and I thought, well, that was cool, but then when it came to making notes and chords, no, nothing happened. So, you know, that was my brief stint as a musician, but music really does influence me, and it's influenced me from like an early stage right until now, like when I paint, I like to listen to music. Music inspires me, sometimes I even get
Speaker: ideas for paintings when I hear music. But that can also happen with movies, poetry. T .S. Eliot made me who I am. Anne Sexton made me who I am. Sylvia Plath made me who I am. Ray Bradbury made me who I am. All this stuff just kind of came into my brain and it's still coming in, thank heavens. I still have, luckily at age 52, you know, you kind of have seen a lot and been around a lot.
Speaker: Um, there are fewer things now that really kind of make me perk my ears up, but they still come. And when they do, it's, it's a good feeling because it just, you just feel, you feel up to the times and you just feel like, Hmm. I feel alive and part of this world. And thanks. And thanks. Thanks for that. Um, yeah, I love, I love to hear the, um, the, uh, all the different influences that, you know, are back behind, um,
Speaker: what you create. And thanks for leading us to you. I did encounter your art and basically as the way I think you wanted
Speaker: folks to encounter. You notice it. And like I said, I think your paintings are just engaging and disruptive in the way that you said and made me think. And I encourage everybody to check out Gerald's work on the web page or Instagram. And
Speaker: Gerald, I really wanted to thank you for spending the time and coming on the show. I've been really excited both before and throughout the show to kind of learn about the work that you do and your thinking behind it. So I really wanted to thank you for coming on to the podcast. Take care, brother. This is something rather than nothing.
