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Episode 154: How to Avoid Burnout
724 Plays2 years ago
Are you experiencing burnout? After an uncertain past 2 years, we know many of you are faced with challenges that result in burnout. Today Davey & Krista explain how to avoid burnout and share tips to work through if you're already in the season of burnout.
6:22- Take time to rest
11:43 - Set work boundaries
17:08 - Invest time in hobbies
18:48 - 10% Project
21:52 - Make a BIG routine change
Recommended
Transcript
The Concept of 'Do Nothing' Time
00:00:05
Speaker
I think the biggest thing in terms of avoiding burnout is do nothing time. You know, I don't even want to call it rest, right? I think what we do is we categorize everything that's not work as rest. And it's just not true.
Introduction to 'Brands at Book Show'
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
Avoiding and Coping with Burnout
00:00:30
Speaker
Today's topic is burnout, how to avoid it and some tips for dealing with it if you're already in a season of it. I've alluded a few times on the podcast to a season of burnout that I've recently experienced that honestly just lasted a lot longer than any other season of burnout that I've ever experienced. So I hope that some of these things that I found helpful will be helpful to you all if you're in or nearing a similar season.
00:00:55
Speaker
As always, be sure to check out the show notes at dvandchrista.com for the resources that we mentioned during the episode, and we want to hear from you. Let us know what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brancetbook podcast as we move forward. To leave your feedback, just send us a DM on Instagram, at dvandchrista. Now, on to the episode.
00:01:18
Speaker
All right, here we are.
Weather and Burnout Transition
00:01:21
Speaker
Finally feels like summer. Oh my gosh, I saw that it's going to be 96 on Saturday and 97 on Sunday, which it's not normal where we live from May.
00:01:31
Speaker
I don't know, I mean, we occasionally have a hot day like that in May. I mean, I feel like a month ago we had snow, so. This is true, this is true. I'm all about the hot weather. I am not. I don't mind sweating. Yeah, you were like the only one. You and the people who live in Arizona. Would much rather it be hot outside than cold. But anyways, that's not what we're here to
Burnout in the Workplace Post-2020
00:01:52
Speaker
talk about. We're here to talk about burnout. Which I'm excited to talk about because I feel like it's so prevalent, not only in the creative industry, but I feel like
00:02:01
Speaker
in the workplace in general, especially after 2020. I feel like so many people got hit so hard with 2020 that they just feel this strong sense of burnout. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think personally, I feel like 2021 has been my biggest year of burnout, you know, as long as I can remember really. Which is kind of surprising because I think most people would say it was the previous year.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, no, I feel like for 2020, it was just kind of like, well, we're in this, you know, you kind of got to buckle up and get through it, you know, and then 2020 rolled around. It was like, you know, just going. I just wheels turning, I think, continuously so long, you know, which is interesting. And I've talked about it a little bit on other podcast episodes as well, just a sense of like,
00:02:45
Speaker
you know, waiting for things to, you know, quote unquote, get back to normal, you know, thinking I just have to keep going until then. And then realizing that like, you know, it's not like this massive shift that things, you know, just all of a sudden click back to, you know, how they were, right? And you just kind of settle into this new normal. And I think, you know, some of the things that we're gonna talk about today, I just got out of the habit of doing. So yeah, definitely excited to talk about it, especially just because I feel like it's, you know, I sort of have a fresh perspective on this having so recently, you know, gone through a season.
00:03:13
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I'm excited to chat about it too. Do you feel like there was any one thing that contributed the most to feeling burnt out or do you think it was the pandemic? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think obviously just the extenuating circumstances of 2020, which are pretty unique, you know, I think that's what really kind of threw me off. I think in general, I'm pretty good about doing a lot of these things, you know, and I think it just sort of crept in. I think what was interesting about this though is I just felt
00:03:39
Speaker
pretty out of it, I think, in a lot of 2021. And usually I feel like, you know, I might have a month where I feel uninspired or tired or, you know, whatnot, right? So usually it's not for months on end.
Preventing and Managing Burnout
00:03:53
Speaker
But yeah, I think what we could do is we could chat about just avoiding burnout first, you know, some of the things that we have in place that have worked well for us, and then some of the things that we do to deal with burnout.
00:04:03
Speaker
Okay. And there's definitely gonna be some overlap there. I think a lot of the ways that we deal with burnout or some of the, you know, by doing and implementing some of the things that we, you know, put in place to avoid burnout to begin with. Right. So what is one way that you think people can avoid burnout? Well, first, you know, have you ever had a season of burnout?
00:04:20
Speaker
I feel like you just don't, you know, like you just always are moving forward. It's definitely one of the things I admire about you. I definitely have seasons where I feel uninspired, but they're really short. I feel like in general, I'm pretty good about just seeing my to-do list and getting to the stuff that's on my list, even if I don't feel super inspired when I'm creating that.
00:04:41
Speaker
Like I was working on a new site the other day or I was just a few hours that I needed to put into a project and I just did not feel inspired. I just was stumped. So it happened, but it only lasted a few days and then I got out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is so, so maybe, maybe you can tell us what the secret is at some point in this. I don't know. Maybe it's my personality type. I know you hate that answer. Yeah. What personality type are you?
00:05:09
Speaker
an Enneagram type one, an ISTJ. Yeah. I feel like it has less to do with the Enneagram type, being an Enneagram type one. Yeah. More to do with the ISTJ. I feel like the perfectionist might put me into like a funk and because I get stuck on perfectionism. But yeah, I think it's maybe the ISTJ and it's been so long. Somebody talked about Myers-Briggs. I don't remember exactly what it is about the ISTJ that would make me be able to keep going. Sure. Is it the T?
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things, but yeah, the TJ. Because I remember when I took the test, I was a 97% J, which is as strong as the J gets. Yeah, we should revisit that. For anybody listening who's interested in personality type stuff, one thing that we have our team do is take the 16 personalities test. So it's a free test, pretty short. I think it's just 16 personalities. If you Google that, it might even be 16personalities.com.
00:06:06
Speaker
Right. I think everyone on our team is a J. Yeah. Yeah. Which is not super surprising. No. Yeah. Although you argue that sometimes I'm a P.
00:06:16
Speaker
You just look like a pea in comparison to me. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But anyways, back to avoiding burnout here. So I want to go through, you know, just how to avoid burnout. And we'll talk a little bit about dealing with burnout. I think the biggest thing in terms of avoiding burnout is do nothing time. You know, I don't even want to call it rest, right? I think what we do is we categorize everything that's not work as rest. Okay. And it's just not true, right? I mean, like, I mean, I think of rest is like sleeping.
00:06:44
Speaker
Sure, sure. Yeah, or just like, or sleeping or napping or something like that. Netflix, you know, or just like binge watching TV, you know, and not that those things, you know, aren't maybe, maybe once in a while you have a rainy day and it's Saturday or whatever and you, you know, sit down and you watch an entire season in the sitting, right? Maybe that's needed, right? I mean, that doesn't happen since we have kids.
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So I'm not saying that no one can find that restful, but I think that we throw all of those things into rest and I don't necessarily think that those things are truly restful. I think having time where your mind's not consumed with something, so actually putting your phone away and not checking it, not just kind of going on to the next thing.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I think that can be combined with things like for you, I know you, well, both of us, we really like gardening. So being out in the garden, cell phone free, doing stuff that we don't feel like we absolutely need to do, but we just want to go do it. Like deadheading flowers or weeding the garden, which are pretty mindless. You don't have to put too much thought into cutting off a dead flower or pulling out a weed.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, but I think that there's a, you know, a risk for people to come out of the weekend and feel like, well, you know, I just feel like I'm going right back into the grind. Like, you know, work stopped on Friday, and then I had all these chores or these things to do where I filled all my time, and then they don't actually feel rested going into Monday.
00:08:07
Speaker
So that's why I hesitate to just say, oh, well, you need to rest, right? So I think people just need to be intentional about, okay, what is rest actually look like for them? Like if they could, you know, between Friday and Monday, right? If they like what they have to ask themselves, what is it that's going to make me feel like, you know what? I just feel great going into Monday. So can you be our example? So do you feel like this past weekend was restful?
00:08:34
Speaker
It's past weekend wasn't a good example because we had a funeral on Friday, so we did a lot of driving. What about Sunday? But in general, I think pretty restful. So if you took out that first part of the weekend there, I think it would be pretty restful. And it just involved going to Mass on Sunday morning. We actually went to Mass on Saturday night this weekend. We did. Typically, we go to Mass on Sunday morning. But going to Mass on Saturday night, we actually got to wake up.
00:09:01
Speaker
A little later. Yeah, a little bit later, which is like seven for us. I got to watch Tottenham play, you know, some Premier League. Davey is a Hot Spurs fan. Yep. So got to got to watch a little Premier League soccer and then jumped into things that I wanted to do in the yard. You know, we just got a new set of bees. So, you know, going out and taking care of them with Jack, we got Jack a bee suit this year.
00:09:24
Speaker
You'll have to post that on Instagram because it's like, he looks so cute in it. Yeah. Well, I mean, that kind of stuff, I feel like I was, I was rested going into Monday, but there are other times where it's like, I feel like I have a ton of chores to do and then Sunday rolls around and I'm not quite done. Um, and then I'm, I haven't really, you know, like step back and been intentional with my time. And I feel like Monday, Oh man, I'm tired. Now I'm going into, you know, the work week.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I feel like I need a mix of creative projects. So like if you follow me on Instagram, you might have seen that I just stenciled the walls of our bathroom. So that was a creative project for me. I really like to paint. I really enjoy working in the garden.
00:10:03
Speaker
And then probably unlike you, I need a very clean house. And so I feel like even though you may not think it's restful, for me sometimes it's like vacuuming. Not the clean house, but it's like, you know, do we have to vacuum right now in all of our free time?
00:10:21
Speaker
But anyways, I will say in terms of rest on a weekly basis, there needs to be a pattern to it. You need weekly rest. I think even daily, you need daily rest. But certainly on a weekly basis, you need rest. And then in addition to that, I think significant vacation time. And I don't mean significant in the sense that you have to take a month off or something like that.
00:10:40
Speaker
But by taking a week off, I think every time we take a week off, by the end of it, I'm feeling like, oh man, I want to get back to work. And not in like, oh, I really need to get back to work way. But just by separating myself, I feel maybe a little bit more excited when I get back. Usually it's like when we're on vacation that at some point during vacation, I'm not really trying to think about work, but at some point I'm like, oh,
00:11:04
Speaker
that's an idea I should try. And so I do think, hands down, taking at least four days off at a time can be really helpful. Yeah, I think so too. So that first one I want to categorize as sort of rest, but like I said, I think there's some nuances there. I think spending a ton of time on your phone, spending a ton of time in front of the TV, I don't personally believe those are restful. I don't have the empirical data to back me up right now.
00:11:33
Speaker
But I'm pretty sure that I could make a pretty good case for that as well. The second thing, setting work boundaries.
Improving Productivity and Mental Health
00:11:40
Speaker
This is something that I talked about a little bit on routine podcast episodes before. But one thing that I've done recently is I've taken Slack, which is our team communication tool, and email off my phone. And that alone has been huge.
00:11:56
Speaker
Do you feel like you're missing out by not having those? No, you know, I actually think it makes me more productive. And I've heard other people say this before, and I just really didn't, you know, believe them. Because in my mind, it's like, well, if I could just handle things as they come in, you know, right? Like, that will keep me productive. Right. But really what happens is, you know, I get a slack notification on my phone, I see it, you know, while I'm out and about, right? And then I forget about it.
00:12:20
Speaker
You know, and so when I get back, I'm like, Oh, what do I have to do? And I'm trying to trying to remember. Whereas when I sit back down at my computer, you know, I go through, you know, I have a routine in terms of what I'm doing. You know, if I have a certain task to do, I just dive into it. But if I have to get organized, right, I'd go through my email inbox, and I take care of all those things right then. And then I go through my Slack inbox, and I take care of all those items right then.
00:12:41
Speaker
And so I think it makes me, you know, a little bit more responsive to people who are trying to get stuff from me. And then two, it just makes me more productive because my work time is when I'm sitting down at my computer. It's not, you know, when I'm outside and I'm doing chores and, you know, I'm getting the slack notification. I'm not trying to do both those things at once. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. But I think meant like just from a like anxiety level too, you know, just from like a, you know, mental health standpoint, I think it's been pretty big for that as well.
00:13:11
Speaker
you
00:13:12
Speaker
I have not taken those off of my phone, but I'm also not as good about checking them, or as you. Like I will happily leave all the bubbles there and then check them when I get to my computer. That is crazy to me. You people who can just leave a thousand bubbles, like there's red bubbles on your phone. I don't have a thousand. My inbox gets cleared out pretty much every day. Psychopaths, that's right. But I don't look at my phone, my email once the workday's over. So for that, I says about 3 p.m. when Jack gets home from school. And I just don't look at it
00:13:42
Speaker
And then I have a lot of text messages needed, especially like your family text because it could be a thousand notifications in a day. Sure. You know, the other thing that helps me too, I have a laptop, which is just, I mean, as you know, it's necessary because when we travel, it's easy to bring our computer and all that.
00:13:59
Speaker
But with that said, it's also easy for the laptop to find itself down in the family room or whatnot for me to check things really quickly. So I have a pretty solid rule that the laptop stays in my office. So I really try not to bring it out of the office and that helps too. I also like how our office is over our garage.
00:14:23
Speaker
It's obviously not a far distance from the rest of the house, but it feels like a lot to come back in here just to check something real quick.
00:14:29
Speaker
You can only get to the space above the garage by a set of stairs that is in our mud room, so it's not connected to the other upstairs. I think that's helpful, not having things right there. All of these rules can be adapted, right? If we didn't have this set up and our office was much closer to the kitchen or the family room or something like that, you could take your laptop and put it in a drawer. But I think putting it out of sight really helps.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah. Something else that's helped just from an anxiety standpoint as well is I got rid of coffee for Lent. Or caffeine rather. We both did. Yeah, well you did because it's just easier to make one cup of decaf in the morning. Some people are probably thinking I could never do that.
00:15:12
Speaker
Oh, but I'm like, I mean, anybody who knows me well knows that I consumed an outrageous amount of caffeine on a daily basis. You said you would have a couple cups of coffee in the morning and then you would do your pre-workout, which is like so many cups of coffee that if you gave it to a friend, you would like warn them that they might be jittery.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I mean, and plus like noon tablets and things like that. So much. So, Lent, that was tough. That was unexpectedly tough. Well, it was tough for like a week. And then I feel like- Oh, for me, it was like I had a headache straight for a week. I felt tired for probably two weeks. And then I feel like I didn't really, my body didn't really truly adjust until like the last two weeks of Lent.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, you were consuming a lot of caffeine though. I was only having one cup of coffee a day. And so for me, it was like a week of headaches and like feeling sluggish and then it kind of wore off. But honestly, like I'm so glad that it, you know, whatever, you know, 44 days, right? Free of caffeine because by the end of it, my energy levels have been so much better. I don't crash in the afternoon anymore. And in addition to that, when I had a cup of coffee shortly after Lent ended,
00:16:20
Speaker
I don't even think we had a full cup. I think I did half decaf. Half decaf, half caffeinated, but still, even with that, I felt so anxious and I just realized like, oh wow, this is how I used to feel almost all the time. I don't know how to describe it. Maybe I should do a whole other episode on giving up coffee, but point being is that made a huge difference as well, just in terms of energy levels. You have to tell people what you're drinking now though, because it's kind of weird.
00:16:46
Speaker
Well, it's just mushroom coffee. Yeah, which is apparently a thing, you know, but it has less caffeine in it. And so it has some other things that are supposedly good for energy that aren't as aren't like a I guess drug like properties like caffeine, right? Yeah. So anyways, back off the caffeine setting work boundaries, I think super important. I think also having something else besides work, you know, having hobbies,
00:17:08
Speaker
But you talked a little bit about when we talked about rest because we kind of use some of our hobbies as rest. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, this is interesting too, because I've always had hobbies. Like this is not, you know, I mean, just thinking about this last season, you know, it's like, well, I had a lot of hobbies and I was still burnt out, you know? I still think it's important to have hobbies. I think in general, like having something that you can look forward to that's not work is important.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think so too. I know for me that's like time with their kids or like I talked about gardening or painting. I enjoyed reading and so those helped me clear my mind from work because I'm focused on something else. Yeah, absolutely. I like running. I like gardening as well. I especially like being outside doing chores with Jack. That's been really fun this past season as well. Always having a fun work project.
00:17:56
Speaker
And did you take this from Google and their 10% time? Well, you had this when you were working right out of college, you were working for American Bible Society, and I think they had this as well. We stole it from Google. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And they called it the 10%
Staying Motivated with Side Projects
00:18:08
Speaker
project. And the idea is that you would use 10% of your time on sort of this side project that you wanted to do. Right.
00:18:15
Speaker
You know, and I think that's sort of ingenious and always having something like how much more motivated and productive I am when I do have something where I'm like, oh, you know, as soon as I get done this, I can move on to this other project. Right. That's fun. And so we had some fun farm fed box updates that we recently rolled out. And it was just fun, like doing a few things we hadn't done before and learning about, you know, implementing those. So just as an example. So I think that makes a big difference. I really like that.
00:18:41
Speaker
And the 10% I think can also at Google be used for learning or education. So I mean, that's kind of what you describe now.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And just along those lines, one of the things I have up on my board here, I still need to record a YouTube video on how I organize my day, but I have three categories, exercise, learn, and fun. And I try to make sure that I'm hitting each of those boxes every day. I really do think that when I'm learning something, even if it's not specifically related to work, it just keeps me fresh. And you've talked about this before too, just staying creatively fresh, oftentimes meaning doing things that are not related to our industry.
00:19:15
Speaker
Whether it's looking for inspiration specifically in places that aren't in our industry or just like reading a fiction book, that helps keep you creative.
00:19:25
Speaker
So something to consider is coming up with a 10% project. To Chris's point, it doesn't have to be 10% of your time, but that's just what it was called, I think. Right. Yeah. All right. So those are primarily the things I think that we use to avoid burnout. And like I said, outside of this past year, and I think there was extenuating circumstances, not only with 2020, but moving too. If you look on top stressors, moving is usually on the list somewhere.
00:19:49
Speaker
Having a baby? Yeah, having a baby and moving to a completely new place where we don't necessarily have much family here. Adapting pets, right? And you adopted like a hundred pets. Yeah, yeah, right. All of a sudden, yeah, I mean, just kind of living a very different life than we were living before. And I think I didn't realize how much stress that can put on me. And obviously stress has sort of a negative connotation, but just with all those changes, I just didn't anticipate it.
00:20:14
Speaker
Right?
Rest Routines and Vacation to Combat Burnout
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah. So you talked a little bit how to deal with burnout. So do you have some tips for people who might be in the midst of burnout now? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think a lot of those things that we just talked about, if people aren't already doing those things, like if they're finding themselves in a season of burnout and they're not already doing some of the things that we mentioned, like rest, for instance, you know, like if you can, if you look at your schedule and you're honest with yourself and you realize, yeah, I'm actually not taking any time for myself.
00:20:42
Speaker
It might be as simple as like, hey, getting into a weekly routine where you have a day or two that are not work related at all. In addition to that, times during your day that aren't work related at all. The first hour of my day is not part of my work day. This is time for me to do my quiet time, to read, but it's not part of my work day. I think it's just a good way to start the day.
00:21:06
Speaker
And I would encourage people to start their day that way because by the end of the day, it's much harder to control what's going on in your day. You get up early, no one else is up. And if the other people are up, they all want that time for themselves anyways, so you're not getting emails, you're not getting messages. No one is placing any demands on your day. So on a daily basis, I think building in some rest in the morning is key.
00:21:28
Speaker
Yeah. And like, even if you were going to go through your inbox, you could do something like boomerang to schedule your emails to go later so that you aren't getting replies that early. Yeah, for sure. So I think looking at different parts of or different things that we just talked about and implementing those, one of the ways that I found helps me deal with burnout is making a big routine
Routine Changes for Persistent Burnout
00:21:49
Speaker
change.
00:21:49
Speaker
Okay, so can you elaborate on maybe a way that you've done that in the past? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think starting to wake up at 4 a.m., you know, and basically at the time I was waking up at like 6, 6, 30. Yeah. And going from like 6, 6, 30 to consistently waking up at 4, I mean, that's a big change. Right. And it requires, you know, it's not just a matter of waking up at 6, I mean, waking up at 4, if you're going to wake up at 4, that means you got to be going to bed probably around 8 if you want to stay healthy. Yeah. So when people ask us about this, I feel like that's their biggest question, like, what time do you go to bed?
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, after a while, like I think when I first started doing this, I kind of miss like all staying up and watching TV and things like that. And I just don't miss it anymore. You know, I don't, I just don't somewhere along the way. I just something that I stopped missing and I don't, I just find that like my days are so much fuller, not necessarily just more productive, but so much fuller, you know, just kind of cutting that out, right? And not using that as my quote unquote rest time.
00:22:46
Speaker
Right, because it didn't really feel all that restful. And there's so much research about screens contributing to lack of sleep. Yeah, and exactly. And just going back to what I was talking about with caffeine. Caffeine gives me sort of an artificial energy. And having cut out caffeine, yeah, so sure, in the short term, I really missed it. But in the long term, I found that my energy levels were so much better when I didn't rely on that for that artificial energy.
00:23:11
Speaker
So again, I'm not saying everybody should be getting up at four, right? And get out of TV and don't have caffeine. We have good friends who I'm really looking forward to seeing this weekend who have the opposite schedule as us. They'll sleep in late, but they're up until like one or two in the morning. Yeah, sometimes working.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah, and it works for them. So there's definitely a science in terms of people's natural sleep rhythms and all. But point being, for us, that really works. And I think making that big routine change really helped. And so when you make a big routine change like that, if you change one thing in a big way in your day, typically other things have to change too. And I think that in committing to that, it just breathes a freshness into your week that really helps potentially with something like burnout. Yeah, that's a really great point.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. And so that's really the only other thing that I kind of mentioned as like, you know, if you're feeling sort of uninspired. And I know, you know, from a habit perspective, like if you're trying to build a habit, they often say, Okay, we'll start small, you know, if you're trying to get healthier, we'll just stop drinking soda, you know, and replace it with water. Right? I think in this case, especially if you're just dealing with a stubborn season of burnout, making a big sweeping change for me in the past has worked.
00:24:24
Speaker
Okay, so next time you're in that season, we're gonna have to figure out another thing to change. Yeah, I'll start sleeping in till noon. No, I'm just kidding. But anyways, I hope this is helpful. Would love to hear from people if they have different tips. Yeah, if you have any other tips for dealing with burnout, avoiding burnout, feel free to comment on our Instagram post. We'll have an Instagram post that goes up with this episode. Yeah, definitely let us know. And as always, as far as topics go and things that you want us to talk about, definitely let us know that as well. Yeah, thanks for joining us, guys.
00:24:57
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.