Transcript
Speaker: Hey, Christine.
Speaker: Hey, Gia.
Speaker: I need your thoughts on Barbie.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Life-changing.
Speaker: Beautiful.
Speaker: Shocked that it's such a big movie and everybody watched it.
Speaker: And now they know.
Speaker: And just everything.
Speaker: I'm obsessed with it.
Speaker: And I have to say...
Speaker: ryan gosling is one of the reasons why but there's a lot that happened in this movie that there we need to discuss i agree i agree i just feel like let's get into it um welcome to two fat girls one mike i'm gia and i'm a fat girl and i'm christine and i'm over here and i'm still reluctantly fat
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: You don't need to say it with shame.
Speaker: I have shame today about it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Do you want to unpack that or we want to talk about the movie first?
Speaker: We're going to talk about the movie first.
Speaker: We'll probably get into it while we're talking about the movie.
Speaker: Valid, valid.
Speaker: No, I loved it.
Speaker: And you were just, we were talking about this before we started the episode.
Speaker: And like, apparently Amy Schumer was originally slotted to play Barbie in the movie.
Speaker: And then Margot Robbie came on later.
Speaker: And what, you know more about that than me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So I remember it was like 26, 27.
Speaker: It was after I feel pretty.
Speaker: It was after I feel pretty.
Speaker: Yeah, I have thoughts on that movie.
Speaker: And that's when they tapped her and said, hey, we want to make a Barbie movie.
Speaker: We want to see what you'll do with it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: She then started, you know, developing, but then it wasn't turning out like the way she, it wasn't working.
Speaker: I think she said it just, it didn't work.
Speaker: It wasn't working.
Speaker: So was she supposed to write Ann Starr?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that's why people started being like, what?
Speaker: Amy Schumer is going to play Barbie?
Speaker: Because, I mean, but she did say the storyline made sense, right, with what that was going to mean.
Speaker: So it never came to fruition because as she, I feel like she said it didn't work out.
Speaker: It just didn't work out.
Speaker: Then what I know, cause I like, I watched something about this and it said like, so it was sitting there ready to go to somebody and Margot Robbie and Greta, I don't know who came to it first, but they basically came to it at the same time.
Speaker: And I think it, but Greta wrote it obviously, but, um,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know what happened, but Margot Robbie just made fucking billion dollars.
Speaker: Yes, she did.
Speaker: Yes, she did.
Speaker: And an actor on that.
Speaker: No, I just think.
Speaker: I always think about once I read that about Amy Schumer, I was like, what a different.
Speaker: film that would be just because the world seems to have such strong opinions about Amy Schumer.
Speaker: And, you know, I feel pretty.
Speaker: I hate as a concept for a film because I feel like the only time we have like plus size women in leads is when like they hit their heads and think they're skinny.
Speaker: It's very strange.
Speaker: Like and then the idea of like equating skinniness to prettiness is
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But at the time, that movie, everybody's like...
Speaker: amazing yeah yeah i don't know i watched it and it made me mad but also it's so it's so funny that we equate skinny with pretty in movies but then what's every fat girl told her entire life you have such a pretty face oh you have such a pretty face so it's so interesting that we flip that i don't know from like media to real life
Speaker: It's, I've been reading about body neutrality lately because I'm going through it with body image.
Speaker: And basically, you know, it's like, we already know it's all the beauty standards, but that quote, you have such a pretty face.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is, that's the one I would, everybody would talk about.
Speaker: And I always have been told I have a pretty face regardless of my body size.
Speaker: Because you do.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: It's weird because, you know, I have that.
Speaker: So it's like being told something like that.
Speaker: It's like you're pretty, but you're fat.
Speaker: So maybe take Ozempic.
Speaker: I mean, that's how I feel now, how it is going.
Speaker: But I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know what I'm talking about really with that, but let's get into it.
Speaker: What else?
Speaker: Keep going.
Speaker: Skinny, pretty.
Speaker: What else?
Speaker: What else you got?
Speaker: No, I mean, we were just talking about, I feel pretty.
Speaker: I mean, with Barbie, like it's always interesting to me when we have these groundbreaking pieces of art, because while Barbie was awesome and amazing and featured so many women, there were, was one, two fat women, two, I think.
Speaker: in the entire and one pregnant who's the pregnant one skipper pregnant skipper oh that's right was it skipper that was pregnant i forget
Speaker: I don't remember.
Speaker: But there was that one.
Speaker: You know who that was that played that?
Speaker: The raider and director of Promising Young Woman.
Speaker: And I forget her name.
Speaker: That was her.
Speaker: That was her and I forgot her name.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: But no.
Speaker: The one pregnant and two plus.
Speaker: I mean, do we call Nicola plus?
Speaker: She's not that.
Speaker: I think she was.
Speaker: I think she was.
Speaker: And now she's starting to she's looking tiny.
Speaker: Get the Hollywood effect.
Speaker: Maybe she's just I think she's a really good example of people with round faces getting cast as the fat girl because I see it like yes in Hairspray all the time whenever I audition for a production of Hairspray.
Speaker: You'll see all these girls with round faces.
Speaker: And even if you look at the Hairspray tour cast that just went out, the Tracy standby is maybe a size 8, 10.
Speaker: Stop.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: But very, very round face.
Speaker: And I stalked her Instagram.
Speaker: I don't know her name.
Speaker: But anywho, played Tracy on Royal Caribbean when they did when they do the show.
Speaker: And Royal Caribbean Cruise Line is notorious for casting a thin girl with a round face and patting her for their production of Hairspray so she can be in the other shows.
Speaker: Like the other shows on the cruise because God forbid a fat person sing pop music.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: That makes no sense whatsoever.
Speaker: Anywho, I feel like Nicola, Nicola, how do I pronounce her last name again?
Speaker: Coughlin.
Speaker: Coughlin.
Speaker: There it is.
Speaker: Coughlin.
Speaker: We're getting an Irish pronunciation lesson today.
Speaker: But I do, you know, I know she's smaller than me.
Speaker: Like, I feel like she's 12, maybe 14.
Speaker: I think she's 10, maybe 12.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: And she's tiny.
Speaker: She just has a round face and boobies, you know?
Speaker: And I feel like Hollywood loves to do that.
Speaker: They love to take women with round features and...
Speaker: call them the plus size girl and call them like their diversity check, um, in terms of body diversity.
Speaker: And it's just kind of, I'm trying to think of other.
Speaker: I am too, because I feel like there's, I'm thinking of somebody.
Speaker: I feel, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker: And.
Speaker: Well, and like, did you ever watch that show Insatiable with Debbie Ryan?
Speaker: No, I didn't watch it because I didn't.
Speaker: No, it's horrible.
Speaker: It's horrible.
Speaker: Because of it.
Speaker: Because of the premise.
Speaker: But I feel like she's another one, right?
Speaker: Like it's like round face.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And.
Speaker: That's why.
Speaker: It's very strange to me because not all fat people have round faces.
Speaker: How about this?
Speaker: It's like when people used to say Brittany Murphy was quote unquote fat.
Speaker: And she just had a she had a very like baby like face.
Speaker: And so her body was tiny, everyone.
Speaker: She was like, yeah.
Speaker: She just had a round face.
Speaker: And I feel like especially in the 80s, it's like round face, big hair.
Speaker: You're our fat girl.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: I mean, we talked about this last time, I think.
Speaker: America Ferrara.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: She's in this movie as well.
Speaker: Well, she's in Barbie, too.
Speaker: She's thinner.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Way thinner.
Speaker: Well, yeah, I thought about her, too, because I do think we've touched on this.
Speaker: But, you know, in Hollywood, it's like.
Speaker: Obviously do what you want with your body.
Speaker: Do what makes you feel good with your body.
Speaker: But it's like the fat girl disappointment in Hollywood when Rebel Wilson lost the weight, when Adele lost the weight, when America Ferreira lost the weight.
Speaker: And it's just like we can't just have one staying actually fat.
Speaker: Besides like Aidy Bryant.
Speaker: Love Aidy Bryant.
Speaker: Love Aidy Bryant.
Speaker: And I feel like Shrill is my honestly one of my favorite shows and I feel like
Speaker: Is the only show that was brave enough to like touch on like the actual niche details of being a fat woman as opposed to just like the kind of glossing over bullshit that other shows tend to do.
Speaker: Well, because it got into the real parts of it.
Speaker: I mean, it really did.
Speaker: But it's just... Anywho.
Speaker: Well, I feel... This is weird, but in this movie I noticed...
Speaker: now that the world is getting more comfortable with people of color, it's now the fat people that are like the token.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's like, now we have that one fat Barbie.
Speaker: I mean, because Sharon Rooney was the lawyer Barbie and she was the true plus size Barbie of the movie.
Speaker: And
Speaker: I was, oh, I have to tell this story.
Speaker: Do it.
Speaker: I was sitting next to some characters.
Speaker: I was sitting next to a straight man, I think, because it was two girls and two guys.
Speaker: And the two girls, I was on the end, and then two girls walked in, then there were two guys walked in, and they sat like that, two girls, two guys.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm like, I think he's straight.
Speaker: And then they were so annoying.
Speaker: They were like, they brought food and they brought drinks.
Speaker: They had a backpack.
Speaker: But then anytime the lawyer Barbie was in the shot or acting like a normal, because, you know, we're in Barbie land, so you can act like you're not going to get killed by a man and raped.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: Sorry, I go for the jugular.
Speaker: So basically, I heard him like scoff or giggle or make a noise as if, you know, like, oh, that girl is a and they think she's good looking like that.
Speaker: That was the undertone I felt from.
Speaker: And I'm sitting there.
Speaker: like bitch i can hear your ass like um and this is why i hate going to the movies by the way because i hate being around uh people but anyway um that annoyed me because then i started thinking this is the problem like even when we have a person that's plus in there other and especially this movie where we're
Speaker: ignoring these things because Barbie land is like dream world, like equality land.
Speaker: So it's like, okay, you're not getting it, sir.
Speaker: That doesn't matter here because there's no constructs like that.
Speaker: I mean, I guess one way, I mean, first of all, that sucks.
Speaker: I hate that story.
Speaker: I guess there's like, to me, it's like, there's two ways of looking at it.
Speaker: Of like, one, I think those men are lost causes, right?
Speaker: But the younger people seeing that movie are not.
Speaker: So I think the hope eventually is...
Speaker: You know, I do think Greta Gerwig is maybe Trojan horsing.
Speaker: Like I mentioned last episode, I think the secret is to Trojan horse your fat people.
Speaker: Just put them in there.
Speaker: Put them in there and get audiences eyes used to it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Put them in there as normal fucking people.
Speaker: And maybe it's like you had to, you know, as a filmmaker, you can't.
Speaker: you can't attack all the issues at the same time.
Speaker: And it's like, you have to kill your darlings.
Speaker: And I do think, I think body diversity is always the first thing to get killed in any film.
Speaker: It's like, oh yeah, I'd love to have more of that, but studio doesn't want it.
Speaker: And this is more important for me to push anyways.
Speaker: And I do, I feel like that's always the kind of thing that's put on the back burner as a
Speaker: oh it's not really important and that's the internalized fat phobia of it all is not viewing fat people as a marginalized group because internalized fat phobia teaches you that it's always something that's controllable and just stop eating and run yeah that's it magic boom boom boom um
Speaker: And I, yeah, I, I actually, I got like a, I got some TikTok comment and I talked about that of like, until we have people in straight sized bodies, like acknowledging that like fat people are their own autonomous marginalized group, then like they're contributing to it because we're not pointing out that like, this is a different group that needs a different
Speaker: focus does that make sense am i rambling yeah no well everybody's scared of because everybody's scared but then i think of scared of focusing on the fat people oh the fat people yeah i it's funny um the current average sized woman is a 16 18 in this country yeah it used to be a 12 then it used to be a 14 now it's a 16 18 um and i don't see those people i
Speaker: On screen?
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: I don't see them on screen.
Speaker: If that's the average, we should see more than one or two.
Speaker: I don't see them.
Speaker: I don't even see that many in my office I work at.
Speaker: I don't see them.
Speaker: Did you see?
Speaker: So have you heard of the Golden Bachelor?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So did you see they released the women?
Speaker: So even like seniors.
Speaker: Stop it.
Speaker: Stop it.
Speaker: I would say maybe a size eight.
Speaker: Stop.
Speaker: Like, obviously, they're older, so they are, you know, less thin.
Speaker: But I swear, some of them have some tig old bitties.
Speaker: Like the Jane Fonda's up in there?
Speaker: Pretty much, bro.
Speaker: Pretty much.
Speaker: Like...
Speaker: I was like, how fucking sad is this?
Speaker: I mean, this is what mainstream media wants.
Speaker: And this is why the Barbie movie.
Speaker: This is why we're so excited about the Barbie movie, I think.
Speaker: Because why?
Speaker: Especially that like old ladies.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: Well, I do wish it had.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I do wish Barbie had like pushed the envelope slightly a little more for it, but.
Speaker: I guess we'll take our, you know, the fatties will take their cookies and we'll be happy.
Speaker: Because I think, like, why couldn't America Ferrero's daughter be plus size?
Speaker: And couldn't we have made that?
Speaker: Like, we could have talked about what it's like not only growing up as a teenager, but a plus size teenager.
Speaker: Like, I just and maybe what's a plus size teenager's relationship with Barbie?
Speaker: Because I got to tell you, my relationship with Barbie was not great.
Speaker: It was not great.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Growing up, because I was just like, I'm never going to look like this.
Speaker: Like, of course, Barbie is not proportional.
Speaker: And I loved Barbie.
Speaker: But to me, oh, I made my Barbies just fuck all the time.
Speaker: They were they were fucking.
Speaker: But like elaborate stories, elaborate stories with their fucking it was like a soap opera.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So one of them professed their love for the other.
Speaker: This really should have been my bisexual awakening a long time ago.
Speaker: But any.
Speaker: Oh, so no Ken's.
Speaker: Sometimes it depended on the narrative, Christine.
Speaker: It depended to go with the storyline.
Speaker: OK, dependent on what story I wanted to create.
Speaker: But I was also like watching, I remember like one time one of my, I like created this huge drama.
Speaker: So I was also watching Dragon Ball Z with my brother at the time.
Speaker: So like one of them was named Goku and like they were in love.
Speaker: And then of course I also watched Days of Our Lives with my mother far too young.
Speaker: And I thought having sex was just like people taking off their clothes under a blanket.
Speaker: So that's what I'd do.
Speaker: I'd just like strip them down and throw a blanket over them and be like, and like kind of bounce them together.
Speaker: They fucking.
Speaker: I can't.
Speaker: They fucking.
Speaker: Putting a blanket over the Barbies that are fucking people.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: Because that's like, because my mom, when we'd watch soap operas, she'd cover my eyes for the sex scenes.
Speaker: So then when she'd take her hands off my eyes, it would just be the naked people under the covers.
Speaker: Yes, with the covers.
Speaker: Doing pillow talk, you know?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I didn't even know you could keep some of your clothes on.
Speaker: I didn't know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Who knew that?
Speaker: I didn't know I could just wear a sundress and call it.
Speaker: Anyhow.
Speaker: But in terms of body size, I never looked at Barbie as like an attainable goal for myself.
Speaker: I never looked at Barbie's outfits as like, oh yeah, that's something I want to dress like because I knew it was never an attainable thing for me.
Speaker: And I. As a kid.
Speaker: And I did.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, you grew up, you grew up.
Speaker: Listen, I, if I never went on a diet in my life, I would not be as big as I am right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just want everyone to know that I already said in another episode, but that's where you get fucked everyone.
Speaker: The more you go on diets, the more weight you're going to gain in the long run.
Speaker: So, and it could be detrimental to your health.
Speaker: Anyway, I digress, but, um,
Speaker: What the hell was I just... Wait, what were you just talking about?
Speaker: I wanted to comment on it.
Speaker: Barbie was never an attainable goal.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: So I loved Barbie.
Speaker: I loved dressing up Barbie.
Speaker: I liked the hair.
Speaker: I had the long hair one.
Speaker: I had the Malibu Barbie.
Speaker: And then in my time, I had the Beverly Hills 90210 Barbies.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: I had Dylan and Brenda.
Speaker: My sister had...
Speaker: Jenny, Garth, Kelly.
Speaker: And so we would like, so we'd play like with, I also had Jordan Knight from the New Kids on the Block.
Speaker: I had two Jordan Knight dolls and then I had Barbies.
Speaker: So I, you know, that was just, I was like an eighties in the eighties.
Speaker: I was a child.
Speaker: So I, in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker: So I grew up with like that same vibe about Barbie that people before me had grown up with, which is like,
Speaker: we love Barbie and like she can do anything.
Speaker: And like, for me, it's like, I knew that I wasn't going to look like that, but I could look like my own version of that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that's the thing that gets stuck in your head that then fucks you up.
Speaker: But I, um,
Speaker: Barbie.
Speaker: I liked playing with Barbies.
Speaker: I didn't see anything bad about it as a child.
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: Like I didn't think about it because I wasn't I was chumpy, but I wasn't big.
Speaker: I was chubby, let's say.
Speaker: That's how I grew up.
Speaker: So I didn't think about like any of that as a kid.
Speaker: I just was playing with my dolls.
Speaker: That is very interesting.
Speaker: It's like
Speaker: how young were you and you started to like be aware of it?
Speaker: And I guess for me, it was like, I was very aware.
Speaker: Cause like I gained so much weight so quickly as a kid in the hospital.
Speaker: And like, of course my family made it a huge fucking deal.
Speaker: And would you, I mean, it was, it was a huge fucking deal.
Speaker: I don't want to like, the whole thing was a huge deal.
Speaker: It was a huge deal.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Brain surgery.
Speaker: Who me?
Speaker: But it's, yeah.
Speaker: So it's like, I was forced to become aware of my size.
Speaker: probably earlier than most kids are.
Speaker: And maybe I'm just processing it now.
Speaker: But yeah, that probably.
Speaker: And you were six?
Speaker: I was six.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I will say I did just because you're mentioning that I remember distinctly in second grade feeling like I was bigger than a lot of the girls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That was.
Speaker: But I was still like,
Speaker: I was still like not like a bigger bodied.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I thought I was because of that.
Speaker: I don't even know.
Speaker: We were saying like how much do you weigh?
Speaker: How much do you weigh?
Speaker: And I'm like.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: I was thinking like I weigh a lot more than these girls.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: It's so funny.
Speaker: Like I genuinely probably stopped getting on scales.
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: I don't anymore.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Even when I go to the doctor, I don't look at it.
Speaker: I don't get weighed anymore at the doctor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not something that's ever going to be helpful to me.
Speaker: Nor will I ever feel, I don't think I'll ever feel free from it.
Speaker: From the number.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: From the number.
Speaker: I can't see the number.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm shaking my head.
Speaker: I'm like, no, I cannot.
Speaker: When I remember like growing up too, it's like when I hit 200 pounds, like I thought it was the end.
Speaker: Like I thought it was the end for me.
Speaker: Um, and I fought so hard in high school to like, Oh, if I could just stay at one 95, just stay at one 95.
Speaker: Um, and then it just, you know, it didn't happen.
Speaker: Well, you're growing up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I remember I was like, oh, once I hit over 200, I'm done for.
Speaker: This is it.
Speaker: This is this is and this is why we have to thank Greta for putting a fat Barbie in there.
Speaker: Because.
Speaker: Well, that's what I mean.
Speaker: It's like, how helpful would this be for the 10 year old watching this movie for the 12 year old watching this movie?
Speaker: I think she had, I think she, she had a lot that she was, she stuffed to me.
Speaker: She stuffed a lot into this movie.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And she, we had Hari Neff, this trans woman, but.
Speaker: As well.
Speaker: So I feel like she was trying to like give us a little, you know, you had Kate McKinnon being, Oh, the weird Barbie, which was different, you know?
Speaker: And I just, I liked that she was trying to give us a little bit of everything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's hard to, uh, I think, uh,
Speaker: it would have been really hard to give us so much with all the other kinds of characters if they didn't focus on the Barbie and the Ken situation.
Speaker: So I think it, I mean, we've heard that they're going to make sequels or a sequel.
Speaker: We don't know what it would entail, but you know, we were thinking maybe a body diversity kind of thing could be a good addition.
Speaker: Call us, Greta.
Speaker: Call us, let us know.
Speaker: Get on our line, girl.
Speaker: I do think about
Speaker: you know, how this movie is going to maybe potentially shift the male gaze or start to shift the male gaze just because by putting a bunch of diverse women in front of people,
Speaker: that's, that's like the first step, right?
Speaker: Is that like women who don't just look like stereotypical Barbie exist.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And then if you unlock that part of your brain, then you're gonna, then it will domino.
Speaker: Then it's like, oh, well then this exists and it's okay.
Speaker: And this exists and it's okay.
Speaker: And this exists and it's okay.
Speaker: So again, I'd be very interested for like a 12 year old boy watching this movie.
Speaker: And, and what that,
Speaker: What it looked like.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Well, I know that a friend of mine did bring her little, I think they're her little cousins.
Speaker: Her sister who's in high school and then a little girl and then a little boy.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And I feel like he was around that age, nine or, well, nine or 10 maybe.
Speaker: But they loved it.
Speaker: Like, he loved it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think, I just love the idea of them seeing this because imagine if we saw this as children.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then hopefully, like, then you'd be like,
Speaker: It's like their whole world is blown open.
Speaker: What's going on here?
Speaker: When they get older and they're like, this is stupid.
Speaker: We got to change this.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: Which, by the way, ladies...
Speaker: Anyone in your life who like says they don't want to see Barbie or that they're not interested or that they don't think they're the target audience, just run very far.
Speaker: I've had too many, especially, honestly, I think it's a great, just if you date men, just good filter.
Speaker: Good filter.
Speaker: Because my stepfather absolutely loved it.
Speaker: My very good friend's partner, he absolutely loved it.
Speaker: And I'm just like, I think we should pay attention to the men in our lives who willingly go see Barbie and love it.
Speaker: And I think those are the ones we need to.
Speaker: And if a man is not willing to see it or has like a comment about it,
Speaker: Yeah, that's like as bad as being Andrew Tate follower.
Speaker: It's a really easy filter.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: I won't go Andrew Tate far, but it's just like, well, hey.
Speaker: It's your old wise logic.
Speaker: I'm just saying that that's how Andrew Tate was created.
Speaker: Yeah, well...
Speaker: Because of the toxic masculinity that the patriarchy gives us.
Speaker: I even was having that conversation with someone today because I was talking about Barbie with them.
Speaker: And just how Barbie has really opened up my eyes to...
Speaker: how men really have kind of identity crises in terms of a sense of self.
Speaker: And how Barbie, I feel like, like really educated on like, that's how the patriarchy harms men.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Is that they don't,
Speaker: identify who they are beyond an archetype.
Speaker: And I was talking to this person.
Speaker: I was like, because many people just think feminism is just like the hating, like women hate men.
Speaker: He's like, is it not?
Speaker: I said, no.
Speaker: And I said, Barbie is anti-patriarchy.
Speaker: Barbie is not anti-man.
Speaker: It's pro-man actually.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and it's pro- It's pro-man as an individual.
Speaker: It's pro the individual, I feel.
Speaker: And pro-finding yourself.
Speaker: And pro-
Speaker: identifying who you are, you know?
Speaker: And I just, yeah, I loved it.
Speaker: I do wish again, I feel the same way.
Speaker: I don't feel the same way, but I feel similarly, similarly about Barbie as I did about Hamilton in the sense of body diversity with groundbreaking new work.
Speaker: Cause like when Hamilton came out,
Speaker: I felt like it missed an opportunity it could have taken in terms of body diversity.
Speaker: Like you're already breaking all these fuck, like you're breaking so much ground.
Speaker: You're doing so much new shit.
Speaker: Why not toss in a fat chick as one of those sisters?
Speaker: Why not?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Why not?
Speaker: And similarly, I feel like Barbie could have.
Speaker: In my mind, I think the daughter.
Speaker: I think you could have made the daughter a plus size teenager and it would have it would have added.
Speaker: Some depth because people don't even think about the depth having a fat actor can add to a character that maybe you haven't thought of.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's because we don't, again, it's that back to that idea of not viewing fat people as an, as an individual, like as an individual group as a, Oh, because you're fat, you might have a different outlook on this because how can people think that
Speaker: we have those individual experiences if they don't identify us as individuals.
Speaker: Does that make sense?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But there, yes.
Speaker: The thing, the problem is people are scared.
Speaker: I feel like people are so scared to touch this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Guess what?
Speaker: It's just a body size.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And because of that, because of this exact thing that you're talking about, because we're not getting cast and because we have to deal with that or because we grow up and we don't look like Barbie.
Speaker: That's why we have a lot of stuff.
Speaker: To give in a performance.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: If you're an actor or to tell in a story, if you're a writer or whatever.
Speaker: And it's like.
Speaker: I feel like we're just like your edge thing.
Speaker: I mean, we're- Yeah, we're edging.
Speaker: They really are.
Speaker: They're edging us.
Speaker: We're getting there.
Speaker: We're getting there.
Speaker: It's just like, only can I have one or two?
Speaker: We got the limit.
Speaker: Like, you know, literally when I was in high school, there was always a token black person in a movie.
Speaker: She's all that.
Speaker: All those movies.
Speaker: Oh, 100%.
Speaker: You know, every.
Speaker: And then that was the joke that there's always a one token black person.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then South Park had that character.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's named token.
Speaker: And it's like, hello.
Speaker: Now that it feels like that it's like people need to get out of the archetype that they have made about fat people and they need to start bringing that fat people are people and have stories.
Speaker: And your ideas are the best about stage shows and theater because you've told me this before.
Speaker: I don't know if you've said it on here before, but
Speaker: The thing about if it doesn't say if there's nothing that is speaking to a body size, why does it matter what size the body is?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Show me in a script where any of these I mean, oh, yeah, I have a I have like a tick tock series on this.
Speaker: And like if you take again and this is that idea of like Trojan horsing your fat people.
Speaker: And I like to think of like a show like Wicked.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I like to think of these shows whose lead characters are already these kind of outcasts.
Speaker: Like, why wouldn't they be?
Speaker: Why wouldn't couldn't they be fat if they're already made fun of all the time?
Speaker: What's worse than a fat?
Speaker: What's worse than a green girl?
Speaker: A fat green girl.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, honestly, I. And so what kind of layer would that add?
Speaker: What layer would that add?
Speaker: with the relationship with Fierro?
Speaker: What layer would that add during popular?
Speaker: What layer would that add in a lot of Wicked, right?
Speaker: And also, this is my favorite pun, and I'm gonna make it on here.
Speaker: If Elphaba in Wicked was plus size, she would literally defy more gravity because science, bitch, boom.
Speaker: Or I guess it would be defy gravity more.
Speaker: Mic drop, bitch.
Speaker: Because if you weigh more, you're going to defy more gravity.
Speaker: Yes, you are.
Speaker: Boom.
Speaker: Which how?
Speaker: Or wouldn't it be interesting if Glinda was fat?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That'd be a cool twist.
Speaker: That would be awesome.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Because then you could have a different dynamic of the skinny green girl hates the pretty fat girl, you know?
Speaker: And oh, like there's so many...
Speaker: Different dynamics in stories we have not told yet because we haven't diversified the bodies enough.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Even the, what's his name?
Speaker: Fierro?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He could be plus, right?
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: He's a prince, right?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Is he a prince?
Speaker: I believe so.
Speaker: I feel like that's even better to have a prince.
Speaker: You're like a leading man.
Speaker: No, I'm saying if you're a prince, right?
Speaker: That means you were born into the role.
Speaker: That doesn't mean you're good looking.
Speaker: That doesn't mean you're a prince.
Speaker: You could look like anything and still be a prince if you're born into it.
Speaker: Or even like another part of the role I think of is like Elsa in Frozen.
Speaker: Again, already an outcast.
Speaker: Already these things.
Speaker: And it's just, yeah, we just, I just think of like the cool stories we've yet to tell because we won't juxtapose body types enough.
Speaker: I honestly think people are scared of doing, I think they're scared of touching it.
Speaker: Well, because they don't, I, and I think that's rooted in, if you put a fat person in any type of limelight, we talked about this last time.
Speaker: A fat person existing and liking themselves is an act of rebellion.
Speaker: Point blank.
Speaker: And so if you put those people who are fat and openly happy in the limelight, what's the first thing that's going to be said?
Speaker: Oh, you're promoting obesity.
Speaker: That's what.
Speaker: And it's like, how is someone existing promoting anything?
Speaker: But that's what they're afraid of.
Speaker: They're afraid to be branded as promoting obesity, promoting lack of health, because that's what we all care about so much, right?
Speaker: Is our health.
Speaker: Like fatness isn't unhealthy.
Speaker: How you're getting that.
Speaker: We don't care that how many lines of Coke you're doing on the weekend.
Speaker: You're skinny.
Speaker: And then, and then we go back to that age old, like,
Speaker: Health does not mean thin and healthy.
Speaker: Like, you can be healthy at multiple sizes.
Speaker: I saw this great thing today that was like, if every single woman on the planet ate the exact same thing and did the exact type of exercise, they'd all still look different.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: That's what life is in genetics.
Speaker: And I don't know if I said it on here either, but different breeds of dogs look different.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: people are people, but they're not the same lineage.
Speaker: They're not from the same areas.
Speaker: Like we're from all over the place.
Speaker: We have some, especially here.
Speaker: Like we have so many, we come from other places here.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Everyone's was an immigrant.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Except like the founding father people.
Speaker: So like those English, I'm just saying, right.
Speaker: Like it's so fucking stupid.
Speaker: It's like, we need to,
Speaker: I know that there's, you know, a huge divide in this country, but like the, why don't, it's like, we want to accept people.
Speaker: I don't want to not accept people.
Speaker: I want to be in that loving area where we accept people for who they are.
Speaker: And also the funny thing I saw some fat activist, her name's Shira, something in her name, but she's, people know her, I guess, but she posted something the other day, which is like talking about like,
Speaker: people saying when you're fat, like you can change it.
Speaker: And she's like, yeah, okay.
Speaker: If I could actually change it, do you think I'd look like this right now in this world, in this world?
Speaker: Do you think of that?
Speaker: Do you think that we want to have to deal with this shit?
Speaker: Because we don't.
Speaker: And if everybody would just like get off their fucking high horse and misinformation bullshit, maybe we could all just like accept each other for who we are.
Speaker: Because why do we have to be mean to each other about stuff people can't control?
Speaker: And even if they could control it, why do you got to what do you it's their body autonomy.
Speaker: They could do whatever they want.
Speaker: Well, and I think with fat people, especially it's like people like to disguise their hatred as altruism of some kind.
Speaker: of like no i just care about your health and oh we should care about health we should promote health at all costs like well guess what we're killing our fucking planet at such a rate that none of us are going to be healthy exactly so how do you just shut the fuck up bro but gee i don't care about health when uh an oil spill happens in the gulf of fucking mexico
Speaker: Yeah, about health when we're still eating seafood out of there.
Speaker: Mm hmm.
Speaker: You know, shit like that.
Speaker: Like they don't care about dumping weight water like this chemical water where these factories are into like my waterways.
Speaker: Mm hmm.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: I just it's such a bullshit fucking that just shows that people are just going off of something they heard and do not know anything about it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like that's just the theme of the world.
Speaker: I mean, I know, but I hate it.
Speaker: Just instant.
Speaker: We expect instant gratification and instantly regurgitate.
Speaker: whatever you know okay i want to i want to get back to um i really want to talk about a little bit about um ken yeah because i know we were just talking about but i feel i everyone needs to know that ryan gosling is one of my number one people that i've loved since the mickey mouse club i'm sorry i have to tell everyone that
Speaker: Please.
Speaker: He's my baby boy.
Speaker: And this role was like, not only was it made for him, but he's, he is the only one that could have played it.
Speaker: So I just need to shout out.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Because he was fuck.
Speaker: This is his aesthetic.
Speaker: A hundred percent.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Like everything about it, but I really, this is why I want men to see it and lose their brains because I,
Speaker: I was touched.
Speaker: I was, I was touched by, by the Ken, by Ken.
Speaker: I was.
Speaker: Because it's like, it's kind of mirrors how women are in society a little bit now.
Speaker: And also, I love that Barbie is like, I don't need, like, I don't know what you want.
Speaker: Like, I don't need you.
Speaker: And then he's so lost.
Speaker: I know we're just talking about this, but like, I just want to talk about Ryan's performance.
Speaker: He was just so good.
Speaker: He was just, and I love Margot Robbie too, but Ryan's like,
Speaker: I'm just amazed at it.
Speaker: He's just amazing to me.
Speaker: And I loved him in this role.
Speaker: And that's it.
Speaker: I just wanted to say that.
Speaker: I just had to say that.
Speaker: Dear Diary, I love Ryan Gosling.
Speaker: Love Christine.
Speaker: Even though I respect his relationship with Eva Mendez.
Speaker: With his fine-ass wife.
Speaker: Yes, with his fine-ass wife.
Speaker: That's a fine-ass couple.
Speaker: I love them.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: Well, and I just wonder, it's like,
Speaker: Maybe the key to everything, right?
Speaker: To the key to unlocking all these forms of oppression is in...
Speaker: letting in like showing men that they can be individual.
Speaker: I think in encouraging curiosity in men and like if we dismantled that then maybe everything else falls too.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: I think so because
Speaker: It just it's showing it's showing men what like some of them don't want to see.
Speaker: Like, guys, you're also being, you know, you're also being coerced by the patriarchy, right?
Speaker: Like you're being coerced into like these roles that you didn't choose.
Speaker: You didn't choose the role.
Speaker: Just like I had example.
Speaker: I had to... This is a new life for me.
Speaker: I've been talking about being in my 40s.
Speaker: It's like... And I'm not dieting.
Speaker: And I'm... It's like I have to live in this world like this now.
Speaker: And I'm going to be my own individual.
Speaker: Well, guys, you can do that too.
Speaker: You can start doing things that...
Speaker: are for you and what you like.
Speaker: And you don't have to, you know, you can treat people like human beings.
Speaker: You don't have to be tough.
Speaker: You don't have to like act like you're superior or whatever these toxic masculine people do because I haven't been around enough men to like know lately.
Speaker: But I'm just saying like,
Speaker: There's no, it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't make us like you less as if we're talking about hetero relationships.
Speaker: We're going to like you more.
Speaker: We're going to like you more.
Speaker: Well, yeah, like be who you are.
Speaker: Be who you are, yes.
Speaker: And it's so interesting too how like, you know, I'm from the South and I would, and from a primarily like white, white Christian South, right?
Speaker: And I would say,
Speaker: You know, I growing up where whenever I'd come whenever I come home in the South, I still get made fun of.
Speaker: From my male friends, I say friends in quotation of like, oh, Gia only dates like black guys or Gia only dates like men of color.
Speaker: They don't even say people of color like they're not even that educated.
Speaker: But it's because like the men I grew up around were so incredibly fat phobic.
Speaker: I do believe fat phobia in white men is specifically insidious.
Speaker: But
Speaker: You know, and so I feel like fat phobia kind of varies on a scale in men, depending on like where they're from, how they've grown up, whatever their, their race, their ethnicity, but that like the patriarchy is throughout.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I guess, I don't know.
Speaker: That's just a thought I had.
Speaker: It's like, if we just, and maybe that's Greta's genius.
Speaker: It's like, if we dismantle the patriarchy, everything falls with it.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: No, that's exactly what the movie was about.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because, and actually saying that about the men, it's like, because for me, okay, what if, this is how I see it too with this, is that it's like all these, we'll say all the mostly white men, are in on like hating fat women.
Speaker: Like they're all in on it.
Speaker: Yeah, it's so funny, bro.
Speaker: They're all in on it.
Speaker: It's like, bitch, you're limiting yourself.
Speaker: You're limiting yourself.
Speaker: Do you want, you want to, if you want to control women,
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: Why do you think you want to do that?
Speaker: See, they don't know how to ask themselves.
Speaker: They don't know how to get curious.
Speaker: They don't ask questions.
Speaker: Ask their own self questions.
Speaker: That's what I mean.
Speaker: Like, men don't have the courage to be curious.
Speaker: They don't.
Speaker: I really don't believe that they do.
Speaker: I mean, like I said, I vividly remember growing up and this guy that, like, I was, you know, in the same friend group as from, like, fourth, no, seventh grade up.
Speaker: And we were walking in a parking lot and there was just a fat woman walking in front of us.
Speaker: And he goes, she has boobs on her back.
Speaker: That's a sin.
Speaker: Loudly.
Speaker: And everyone in the group cackled.
Speaker: And I was just like, at the moment, like I didn't laugh at the moment.
Speaker: I didn't really process it.
Speaker: But I think about it now, I'm just like, Jesus Christ, that was fucked up.
Speaker: And that's what I grew up with, you know?
Speaker: So it's just, yeah, I really, to circle it all back, to round it all out to Barbie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I do think it's so incredibly genius because it's true.
Speaker: I think all these things, like we've been talking about throughout the podcast, it's this Venn diagram of everything walks hand in hand with misogyny.
Speaker: Everything, the fat phobia, misogyny and racism, they all walk hand in hand together.
Speaker: But the patriarchy is at the core of,
Speaker: And like, that's what it's the head of the snake, I guess.
Speaker: We need to have a beach battle.
Speaker: I know I have my job is beach.
Speaker: My job is it's just beach.
Speaker: I had a friend.
Speaker: I had a conversation with a friend recently who also loved Barbie.
Speaker: So I picked my friends, a male friend who loved Barbie.
Speaker: So I picked them well.
Speaker: But he just broke up with his girlfriend and he
Speaker: he started talking to me about how, you know, I don't really know what I like.
Speaker: I don't really know, you know, what, who I am.
Speaker: And also like, he's very talented.
Speaker: He's very successful in the industry and he's never really stopped working in the industry.
Speaker: And he was like, yeah, I don't know who I am outside of work.
Speaker: Like, I just don't know.
Speaker: And he told the girl the age old line of, I have to work on myself.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I told him, I said, well, that's kind of a line that girls hear a lot.
Speaker: I said, so were you more specific?
Speaker: And he said that she asked him, do you not think you can work on yourself and be in a relationship at the same time?
Speaker: And he said, no, I don't think it can.
Speaker: And that's when I asked him if he'd seen Barbie.
Speaker: And he was like, yeah, I did.
Speaker: I actually saw it with her and I really liked it.
Speaker: I said, I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe like this movie just has me thinking more about gender roles.
Speaker: I said, but maybe you can't.
Speaker: Maybe she asked you like if you can do those things, be in a relationship and work yourself at the same time.
Speaker: Because women have always had to do that.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We have always had to work on ourselves while also putting someone else, mainly men's needs, ahead of ours.
Speaker: And men have never had to do that.
Speaker: And so no wonder when they finally realize, oh, wait, I have a lot of self-work to do, which takes them too fucking long to realize anyways.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: No wonder they can't focus on anything else because they've never had to dual wield like women have always had to.
Speaker: And he literally, he sat there, he was like, huh?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah.
Speaker: And I was talking about like this.
Speaker: I was like having this light bulb moment.
Speaker: I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Speaker: And that's the genius of Greta Gerwig.
Speaker: Like you just you keep thinking about it.
Speaker: Like I just my brain has been forever altered in that I believe this movie is kind of the gospel.
Speaker: And that if we want to dismantle the systems of oppression in this world, we have to cut off the head of the snake that is the patriarchy.
Speaker: Put it on a shirt.
Speaker: Whatever the fuck.
Speaker: Be Medusa.
Speaker: I don't fucking know.
Speaker: We do.
Speaker: I got hype.
Speaker: I got excited.
Speaker: We're so excited for men to stop listening to the bullshit they've been being told.
Speaker: No, that's it.
Speaker: No, that's it.
Speaker: Just end it.
Speaker: We're so excited for men to stop.
Speaker: We're just... Just stop.
Speaker: But, no, I mean, yeah, I just loved it.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: That was my light bulb moment of like, yes, I want to dismantle fat phobia in the industry, in society.
Speaker: Like, I believe it's my calling, one of my callings in this world.
Speaker: But to do that, you've got to address some patriarchy too.
Speaker: Like, you can't fix one without fixing the other.
Speaker: And I think I never realized how...
Speaker: how true that is until seeing this movie and really started thinking about it.
Speaker: And I think that's the key of a brilliant movie is that you think about it for fucking months afterwards, years afterwards.
Speaker: And it's going to be streaming soon, everyone.
Speaker: So you didn't see it.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: On HBO, right.
Speaker: Or on max max max.
Speaker: I feel like it's next weekend.
Speaker: something around there i'm watching it again oh hell yeah it's coming to imax um i might have to go to the imax i don't know are there imaxes somewhere near us because in the imax one they're gonna show um extra clips that weren't in the original movie oh that's cool yeah
Speaker: Greta, please cast a fat girl in your next movie.
Speaker: How about do a movie about a fat girl?
Speaker: About a fat girl.
Speaker: That would be amazing.
Speaker: I thought Booksmart was great.
Speaker: We didn't talk about weight in that movie at all, but how powerful was it to just see a plus-size person in a lead and being fucking neurotic and having relationships and whatever.
Speaker: It's happening.
Speaker: It's slowly happening.
Speaker: I just want it to happen faster.
Speaker: It's like we're watching the iceberg and then we're going to crash into it.
Speaker: Pretty much.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's the thing.
Speaker: It's like, I do think it's like writers, directors have to kind of kill their darlings.
Speaker: Like they have to pick which, what statement is the most important to put to the forefront.
Speaker: And for whatever reason,
Speaker: The body diversity statement has not been put to the forefront yet.
Speaker: We have a lot of- In a way that's been received by the mass as well.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Well, one positive on Broadway is Kimberly Akimbo.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: What's, I forgot, right?
Speaker: My queen, Bonnie, Bonnie Milligan.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: I mean-
Speaker: Bonnie and also from Shucked.
Speaker: Yeah, Alex Newell.
Speaker: What's her?
Speaker: Alex Newell.
Speaker: That was amazing to see that this year.
Speaker: Well, Alex Newell takes that entire show, in my opinion.
Speaker: I didn't see it yet, but.
Speaker: I mean, it's so dumb, but it's so good.
Speaker: Yeah, every time she's on stage, every single fucking time.
Speaker: And like, I honestly, I don't.
Speaker: know what the show is going to do when Alex leaves.
Speaker: I think she lowkey makes the entire show.
Speaker: And again, it's so wonderful to just see like a fat, powerful woman, a fat sexual woman on stage because she's very like dirty and like, you know, like very forward.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we just need more of it.
Speaker: We need to keep, keep doing it.
Speaker: And that's what we're trying to tell everyone today.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Trojan horse your fatties.
Speaker: If you run something, put more fat people, put more diversity, put more different kinds of people, people that are not quote unquote regular normal people.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Into your shows, into your workforces, into anything that you need people for.
Speaker: Because we exist.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, body diversity just needs to be considered diversity.
Speaker: You know, when you look around a room and you think it's not diverse enough.
Speaker: What are you are you including body type, body diversity?
Speaker: Under that bubble.
Speaker: And if not, why aren't you?
Speaker: Just because 2020 is not here anymore doesn't mean you can't think about diversity, people.
Speaker: Oh, oh, oh, she's sassy.
Speaker: Sorry, I see it at my company.
Speaker: Oh, she's sassy today?
Speaker: I mean, when you don't have a budget for diversity and inclusion, what's the point of diversity and inclusion?
Speaker: Yikes, big yikes.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel that every, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Leaving on that note.
Speaker: Okay, well.
Speaker: It's a big old, everything's connected conversation.
Speaker: And charge a horse to your fatties.
Speaker: That's... Those are your nuggets of wisdom today on the podcast, Fred.
Speaker: Do what Gia tells you.
Speaker: Gia's gonna be like she's gonna have an office she's gonna be a consultant for the theater for TV movies film and theater for body diversity that would be great is that a position I can create you're gonna make it you're gonna make it bet I'll do it guys call me Hollywood in a couple years and you bet we might be doing that ring ring call us hey okay oh man go see Barbie if you haven't friends
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: If you think you don't need to see it, you do.
Speaker: If you have teens, they need to see it.
Speaker: It's a family movie.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: I think it is.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: And report back if you see it and tell us how much you loved it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hell yeah.
Speaker: We're going to go be our best Barbie selves.
Speaker: Hi, Barbie.
Speaker: Hi, Barbie.
Speaker: Bye, Barbie.
Speaker: Hi, Barbie.
Speaker: I just wanted to do that part.
Speaker: Okay, everybody.
Speaker: We're going to go because I think we're getting a little silly.
Speaker: So keep on keeping on.
Speaker: Bye.
