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Innovations and Adaptations in Kentucky High Tunnels and Greenhouses
64 Plays4 months ago
This episode of Hort Culture dives into the world of high tunnels and greenhouses in Kentucky! We're joined by special guest Arundathi Sharma, University of Kentucky Extension Associate for Floriculture and Controlled Environment. Arundathi will shed light on the fascinating adaptations and innovations Kentucky growers are using to thrive under cover.
Center for Crop Diversification-HighTunnel & Greenhouse
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction & Olive Nut Loaf Curiosity
00:00:11
Alexis
What is up guys? Welcome. Hello. We have a wonderful guest on here, uh, with us today. And therefore I want to ask all of you a question because I feel like we've got a good, uh, difference and where everybody's from and backgrounds on the show today. And so I want to ask you, have any of you ever had the sandwich or the spread olive nut but before?
00:00:30
Brett
Thank
00:00:35
atack2010
Yes, olive nut loaf.
00:00:36
Josh
Hmm, I don't think so.
00:00:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:00:37
Arundathi
I think so.
00:00:40
Alexis
Not olive loaf, olive
Olive Nut Loaf Origins & Obsession
00:00:42
Alexis
nut.
00:00:42
atack2010
OK, maybe not.
00:00:42
Alexis
It's a cream cheese-based bread.
00:00:43
Arundathi
Does that mean it's all of paste and there's some nuts in there?
00:00:48
Alexis
there's it's ah It's cream cheese with like chopped up...
00:00:51
atack2010
Wait a minute, you're just looking for reasons to eat cream cheese again, Alexis.
00:00:54
Alexis
sin Listen.
00:00:55
Josh
Yeah, but all of this this is my vegetable.
00:00:55
Alexis
Listen.
00:00:56
atack2010
Again, she dripped a ah drop of olive juice on cream cheese and then eats it.
00:00:56
Alexis
I don't need a reason.
00:00:59
Brett
you.
00:01:00
Alexis
a reason. but it's it's it It's a weird, I guess it's a but so really, I never had it until I came to Boyle County and I was ah but basically when I said, what are you talking about?
00:01:04
Josh
the
00:01:05
atack2010
I don't think I've had that. No, not not what you're talking about. No.
00:01:10
atack2010
ah
00:01:13
Alexis
Uh, I was gasped at by old Southern ladies and, uh, but basically it's like a cream cheese base with chopped up olives, like green or Greek olives and, um, nuts chopped up into it. And it sounds really weird.
00:01:28
Arundathi
Like walnuts, right?
00:01:29
Alexis
Yes, I believe so.
00:01:30
atack2010
It sounds a Mediterranean, in fact. I don't know. is it
00:01:32
Alexis
It sounds weird, but it is, and you put it on bread or crackers, and it's apparently a very Southern thing, and now I'm obsessed with it.
00:01:39
Brett
What did you think that she meant, Ray?
00:01:40
Josh
Never heard of it. Never heard of it.
00:01:41
Arundathi
you
00:01:43
Alexis
Never, heard yeah, I never heard of it either until I came to Danville.
00:01:45
Brett
What did you think that she meant, Ray, when you said yes?
00:01:46
atack2010
more of a fruit cakey type thing that I've had before. It was more, it it's as paste-like, but it was actually sliceable. It is not what Alexis has described.
00:01:54
Alexis
oh Olive loaf type thing.
00:01:56
atack2010
Yes, like a loaf, but no, it's not as heavy as what you're just, yeah,
00:01:56
Josh
You're right.
00:01:57
Brett
Oh.
00:01:58
Arundathi
olive not bread
Summer Foods & Cream Cheese Dishes
00:02:00
atack2010
sorta.
00:02:01
Alexis
I don't know, an olive loaf sounds pretty heavy to me. but
00:02:04
atack2010
It is, it has got a lot of cheese in it, but no, I've never had that.
00:02:06
Brett
He's got to lift with the knees.
00:02:08
atack2010
Yeah, just live with it. I'm down for it if it's cheese, folks, but yeah, as much as I love cream cheese, I've never heard of that, so yeah.
00:02:16
Josh
Yeah, I've definitely never heard of that.
00:02:16
Alexis
Yeah, you're.
00:02:17
atack2010
You have stumped this group.
00:02:17
Josh
It's like a southern thing. That sounds like a New York deli counter thing.
00:02:19
atack2010
Yeah, no, no.
00:02:19
Alexis
Yeah, well.
00:02:20
Arundathi
um yeah I think I've heard of it.
00:02:21
Alexis
but See, that's what I would think too.
00:02:21
atack2010
That does sound kind of New York.
00:02:21
Arundathi
ah
00:02:23
Alexis
Olives, but the the all I know is the group of old Southern garden ladies. I was at like a garden clubby type thing where like shocked when I was like, I don't know what that is. Is it exactly what it sounds like? I don't, I don't know.
00:02:23
atack2010
yeah
00:02:37
atack2010
Did you offend? You might have offended them with their lack of knowledge.
00:02:39
Alexis
I did. I think I offended them a little bit.
00:02:40
atack2010
Okay.
00:02:40
Alexis
i Well, I think I looked less classy.
00:02:41
atack2010
Okay.
00:02:42
Josh
Maybe it's from southern Long Island.
00:02:45
atack2010
I mean,
00:02:46
Arundathi
yeah that's what it sounds like
00:02:46
atack2010
yeah Yeah.
00:02:48
Alexis
I was thinking I was like is it Alabama like It would be good on a pastrami sandwich and Obviously, that's what you eat
00:02:49
atack2010
like Something you would put on a pastrami sandwich, maybe?
00:02:51
Josh
All right.
00:02:53
atack2010
I mean, okay. Is that a summer food though? Cause I'm thinking about summer foods right now and now I'm thinking about food in general.
00:02:59
Josh
Well, ah heavy cream cheese, of course.
00:03:02
atack2010
Yes.
00:03:02
Josh
Summertime, you get you get as many mouthfuls as you can, and then you run back out into that hot humidity.
00:03:02
atack2010
Of course. That's, I mean, if you leave it. ye oh are we are are we We're all of a sudden talking about picnic foods and I'm getting super excited and maybe a little loud, so I'm sorry.
00:03:08
Josh
the
00:03:09
Arundathi
Yeah, that's what it sounds like tonight.
00:03:14
atack2010
I apologize ahead of time. Nothing like sweaty olive you know cream cheese on a picnic table at 98 degrees. Yeah, perfect.
00:03:20
Alexis
But it's also a little bit crunchy and you're like, Oh,
00:03:22
atack2010
Yeah. Is that a fly or is that an ingredient? We don't know. It could be either. Yeah, I don't know. This is something new. It sounds like it would be good on a like a wheat thin. a wheat thin
00:03:34
Alexis
ah we yes, it would be, it's around a little, it's like a little thing you would have next to your cucumber sandwiches or your like little, like that's yeah.
00:03:35
atack2010
A week.
00:03:36
Arundathi
sweet
00:03:36
atack2010
Yeah.
00:03:40
Josh
Yeah, exactly, right.
00:03:41
atack2010
Ah, gotcha.
00:03:41
Josh
On the train, you know, at the, right, right.
00:03:42
atack2010
Gotcha. A small aperitif.
00:03:44
Alexis
Yeah.
00:03:45
Arundathi
Now, did they explain that to you or you have to find it out by trying it?
00:03:48
atack2010
Yeah. Is this something you were Googling?
00:03:48
Alexis
No, they were just like, here's a cracker with olive nut on it. And I was like, okay. And when, listen, when an old Southern woman tells you to eat something, you just
Introducing Arunathi Sharma
00:03:56
Alexis
do it. You don't ask questions. You do you eat it. And you're like, all right, I'm sorry. Okay.
00:04:01
atack2010
You don't want to cause a skirmish and I'm using that word carefully. You don't want to cause a skirmish.
00:04:04
Alexis
They're just like here. Let me make a plate for you when you're done. So well,
00:04:08
atack2010
Yes. Here eat this. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Yes. I had garden clubs. They have good food anyhow, from my experience.
00:04:13
Alexis
yeah, that's, I mean, they know what they're doing.
00:04:13
atack2010
So was it good?
00:04:14
Alexis
So.
00:04:14
atack2010
Was it good?
00:04:15
Alexis
It is good, I actually had it for lunch again today.
00:04:16
atack2010
Okay.
00:04:17
Alexis
There's a little deli in Lexington that has it, and I was like, you know what, I bet somebody else has heard of this, but apparently not, so.
00:04:18
atack2010
Okay.
00:04:24
atack2010
No, not in that form.
00:04:24
Brett
is Use promo code Alexis to get 10% off your next Olive Nut purchase.
00:04:24
Alexis
um
00:04:28
atack2010
Yeah. Frequent flyer miles.
00:04:30
Alexis
I wish.
00:04:30
Brett
Shout out to Olive Nut for sponsoring the episode.
00:04:33
atack2010
Yes. All of that family of brands.
00:04:35
Alexis
Well, uh, so anyways, this to end this episode, it's go get yourself some, uh, all of not figured out, but in the meantime, let me introduce our wonderful guests, uh, who, uh, is, I'm just excited to have you on today. Arunathi
From Engineering to Horticulture
00:04:50
Alexis
Sharma. So she is the extension associate here at the university of Kentucky for controlled environments. And you've been doing a lot of cool stuff and I call her a lot because I'm always like, Hey, can I just like do something random? And she's like, well, um, And she walks me through how ridiculous I might sound one with some of these weird ideas and her very different ah brain and how your brain works because you have an engineering background, right?
00:05:06
Arundathi
ah
00:05:08
atack2010
you
00:05:16
Arundathi
That's right, yeah. I um i got into horticulture because I like food, basically.
00:05:23
Alexis
Same.
00:05:24
Arundathi
um she Basically is the reason.
00:05:24
Josh
Good reason.
00:05:28
Arundathi
But I'm an engineer by training. Yeah, I studied mechanical engineering and I was very interested in robots and in bicycles. I worked on a little robot bicycle in college.
00:05:40
Alexis
and ah
00:05:40
Josh
Mm.
00:05:40
Arundathi
um
00:05:43
Arundathi
But um yeah, no, I was I wanted to do some food stuff. So I worked, I actually worked for a while on hydroponic systems and vertical farms.
Farming Technologies in Kentucky
00:05:52
Arundathi
um And that was a venture out into the, I guess, I want to call it high tech because that's what the venture capitalists call it. um But I don't know, maybe we'll talk a bit about this today. But I think I came away with from that experience, realizing that there's just so much that people can figure out on their own at home. And yeah, it was just kind of inspirational that you can, you know, ah use a lot of the digital tools that we have at home, or even just stuff you have lying around and use it to make food.
00:06:30
Alexis
vertical farming, the bane of my existence, um, a little, just like it was my master's research.
00:06:30
Arundathi
basically.
00:06:33
Arundathi
i
00:06:36
Alexis
So anything that's your master's research is going to be like, give you nightmares still. Uh, but it's not being personal to vertical farming, but also I hate you.
00:06:41
Josh
Agile.
00:06:45
Alexis
Uh, so, but, uh, so, and You, so you've seen some of these like high tech things and then, so now you're in Kentucky and we kind of have a really big scope and you would know this better than probably any of us, sort of the, how high tech we have things here versus, versus not.
00:06:51
atack2010
you
00:07:03
Alexis
Can you talk to us a little bit about the scale that you've seen, uh, in our areas?
00:07:09
Arundathi
Yeah, well, and so I also even just got to know Kentucky through the experience of
Controlled Environment Agriculture
00:07:15
Arundathi
visiting farms. So I feel like my understanding of Kentucky is very much through this lens of the range of types of farms that are out here.
00:07:23
Alexis
yeah
00:07:24
Arundathi
But um yeah, I mean, when people hear controlled environment ag, I think in Kentucky, it really immediately
00:07:31
Alexis
Yeah.
00:07:31
Arundathi
um pulls people's minds to high tech greenhouses. um So there was, I don't know if we have like a, you know, a thing here about saying names of places, but anyway, there was a big, big, we don't know one either.
00:07:44
Alexis
I don't know. We don't know either.
00:07:47
Arundathi
We might find out. um Anyway, there was a ah company that had set up four huge high tech greenhouses um in in Kentucky. And that was really the, I think probably the the entrance of like more automated operations here.
00:08:05
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:08:06
Arundathi
um But there have been pretty large scale greenhouses with various automation features around for a while. So there's, you know, pretty well developed operations like ah Bell nurseries, they do a lot of transplants that that go out to big box stores, for instance. um And those folks are really serving wholesale markets that may not even, um you know, you may not even encounter that product in Kentucky necessarily.
00:08:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:08:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:08:35
Arundathi
um And then on the other side, you have just, you know, literally, um I think thousands of growers probably across the state that are using controlled environment techniques
00:08:47
Josh
Mm hmm.
00:08:51
Arundathi
to grow already. And well, at least at UK Horticulture, everyone loves to talk about the history of the the father of um plastic high tunnels.
00:09:02
Josh
Right.
00:09:03
Arundathi
oh ah
00:09:04
Alexis
No big deal.
00:09:06
Arundathi
No big deal. Plastic greenhouses were invented in Kentucky. Don't forget about it.
Active vs Passive Control Systems
00:09:12
Alexis
By the way, get a tattoo just right on your arm.
00:09:12
Arundathi
But by the way, just just just a name. um Um, so there is a pretty long history of using, um, you know, clear plastic actually to extend growing seasons. Um, and so I like to talk about, um, you know, coming from this sort of robotics perspective of automation means control. Um, and there are different types of control that you can have.
00:09:35
Josh
Mm.
00:09:37
Arundathi
Um, so a lot of people mix up greenhouses and high tunnels, um, cause they see the physical structure and they think that looks like a greenhouse.
00:09:42
Alexis
Mmhmm. Yeah.
00:09:46
Arundathi
Um, the way that. I would typically define a greenhouse, and I don't know that there's a universal definition for this, but to me, a greenhouse is something that's got active control, and active control means that there's something somewhere in your system that's monitoring conditions, and when a certain condition is met, some kind of machine kicks on and tries to bring conditions back into spec.
00:10:09
Alexis
Interesting.
00:10:12
Arundathi
So like a thermostat is, you know, so you're your house,
00:10:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:10:17
Arundathi
assuming you all have a thermostat in your house as a controlled environment.
00:10:20
Josh
Just got one the other day, but yeah.
00:10:22
Alexis
I've just been feeding the fire all winter long.
00:10:22
Arundathi
Nice.
00:10:27
Arundathi
Well, and in a sense, you know let's say you had ah ah you know a thermometer and in your high tunnel and you just constantly went over there, checked the temperature, and then opened the door when the conditions were right. That is kind of active control. It's just a lot of work. um And so we've seen a lot of really interesting ways that people get around. Um, yeah, basically the, the not feasibility oh of doing that. Um, so yeah, so a lot of like kind of improvised stuff, I guess, to answer your question.
00:10:55
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:00
Arundathi
Um, you know, people using stuff that they have lying
Automation in Agriculture
00:11:04
Arundathi
around to um either extend their growing season or reduce the amount of work that they have to do. um all the way up to super automated um top of the line stuff that comes in from other countries actually.
00:11:16
Alexis
Hmm. I will tell you that the automatic roll upsides I have in my high tunnel was the best money I've ever spent and I would do it a thousand times over and I tell everybody to do it. So here's your PSA, everybody do it. It's the best thing I've ever done.
00:11:30
Arundathi
but
00:11:32
Brett
can you can you briefly explain what that means
00:11:34
Alexis
Oh yeah.
00:11:34
Brett
alexis
00:11:34
Josh
Yeah.
00:11:35
Alexis
Um, so high tunnels, uh, usually have a roll up side for, you can allow for venting. So when it gets obviously it can get really warm in there, even in the dead of winter, it can be 20 degrees outside and you can be the sun's out 75 to 80 and the high tunnel, uh, depending on the size you have and and things like that, if the sun is out, but. So I have a temperature sensor that drops down just a little wire that drops down into the middle of my tunnel from the rafters and ah it um checks the temp and when it reaches a certain temperature in there, there's these tiny little motors that instead of me having to hand crank them up in the morning and the in the evening, like they'll go up and down based on temperature.
00:11:58
Brett
Can you briefly explain what that means, Alexis?
00:12:19
Alexis
And so ah they'll go up part of the way. And then it'll check the temperature after a few minutes. And if it's still too hot in there, it'll go up a little bit more and so on and so on. And so I have those also on my greenhouse, which is basically looks like a mini high tunnel, but it has heat and vents and fans and stuff in it. so ah I don't ever I mean you still have to worry because of course motors can go out just like with anything it's something to be concerned about.
00:12:42
Josh
Mm-hmm
00:12:43
Alexis
ah The wind is also something I stress about but there is a ah I do have the ability to add a wind sensor on and so there's just like a little wind thing that'll sit outside the tunnel and once it hits a certain speed it will tell the curtains to go down. So that's my next upgrade that I'd like to have just because I don't work from home.
00:12:59
Josh
No
00:13:03
Alexis
And so I can't be there even when it's snowy outside and the temperature goes up, but it was, you know, 25 degrees this morning, but the sun's out in the middle of the day. It's going to get hot in there really fast. And so I set those temps to go up and down based on ideal you know ah deal range. and I think that's really helped improve my crop. It extends the life. you know If I'm growing cool weather crops that don't like the heat, they're getting cooled off immediately. As soon as they get too hot, the they're getting cooled off um to you know the best extent that I have. so ah It's phenomenal and worth every penny.
00:13:40
Josh
I kind of have a question about that when it comes to those tolerances for like at this temperature, do this, at you know, and then test again. Does it come with like a pre-existing kind of template, I guess, or are you putting all that logic together?
00:13:54
Alexis
no i yeah and it's very It's very simple. like By logic, it's like um I set the minimum temperature.
00:13:59
Josh
Mm-hmm.
00:14:01
Alexis
so When it hits this, I want it to close. um and When it hits this, I want it to open. and Then I sent the increments that I want it to check kind of check at.
00:14:11
Josh
Gotcha.
00:14:12
Alexis
That's something like every three minutes i I want it to check or something like that.
00:14:14
Josh
helia Yeah, like the tolerance before it triggers.
00:14:16
Alexis
um And then it has a little bit of a, I forget the word I'm looking for, but I can add on a couple degrees lower, a couple degrees higher. Tolerance. Yeah.
00:14:28
Alexis
Yeah. So it's just like a greenhouse. It's set up pretty much the same way. It's just only the sides are opening and closing on that.
00:14:28
Josh
Yeah.
00:14:33
Josh
Cool.
00:14:35
Alexis
So really the only thing I've ever worried about was the wind.
00:14:35
Brett
Yeah, that.
00:14:37
Alexis
If they're if they're open and I know there's a storm coming through, I get stressed.
00:14:42
Josh
Uh huh.
00:14:43
Arundathi
How do you override that?
00:14:43
Brett
ah So. and
00:14:45
Arundathi
I'm sorry.
00:14:45
Josh
yeah
00:14:46
Alexis
Oh, you're fine. So I can just go in, if I'm home and I know the wind's coming, like we've had a lot of storms lately, I just go hit close and it just, it'll close. And so I can manually open or close it, keep it open or close.
00:14:46
Brett
ah
00:14:54
Josh
Yeah.
00:14:57
Alexis
Um, or I can set it to, to check the temps.
00:14:57
Josh
Hmm.
00:15:02
Brett
Do you, so I mean, this is making me wonder as you've gained more experience and seen more sites and more applications, how do you square the, or how do you approach this spectrum? Cause there's kind of like, there is some, you mentioned some degree of control as kind of this, uh, demarcation. Some people would say it's still just a high tunnel with some motors on it.
00:15:26
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:15:26
Brett
Um, I don't, I, and like.
00:15:27
Josh
Right.
00:15:29
Brett
Why do do those distinctions matter? How do they matter in in the work that you've been doing? And I'm just curious, but um'm I'm talking about distinctions here for the for the audience, distinctions between high tunnels and greenhouses and even something like a low tunnel, you know you're controlling that little mini environment in a sense.
00:15:38
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:15:46
atack2010
Thank you.
00:15:46
Brett
And I'm just curious, I know there's funding reasons, there's to ah technological ah cost share, whatever type reasons, there's other you know political and other other reasons too, but what's what do you have to say about that that's this spectrum that you're operating on?
00:16:07
Arundathi
Yeah, I think this distinction between passive and active control, and I don't even think I talked about what passive control means.
00:16:14
Alexis
Mm-mm.
00:16:15
Arundathi
So I'll mention that first. um I would describe something like a high tunnel or a low tunnel that doesn't have any of those add-ons that Alexis was talking about. Those are all passive systems where um there is some kind of control in the sense that you're affecting the inside conditions to be different than the outside conditions. But you don't have an active control, meaning you don't have the ability to say, this is the actual condition I want, and we're going to hold it in this range.
00:16:46
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:16:47
Arundathi
um So this step where you know Alexis has somewhere a temperature sensor that's actually telling um the motors to kick on and lift up besides, that's what makes it an active control system.
00:16:54
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:17:00
Arundathi
um And the reason that matters is because that stuff doesn't come for free, basically.
00:17:00
Josh
You
00:17:05
Arundathi
um It costs money to put. um towards investing in that stuff. And then you have to make a calculation about, um you know, how quick is that going to pay off, you know, so that can look like a lot of different things for different folks.
00:17:15
atack2010
Mm
00:17:17
Arundathi
But in general, um you know, the trade off when you go for one of these automated active systems is energy.
00:17:20
Josh
know.
00:17:27
Arundathi
um So you're basically putting energy into your system, you either have an electricity cost or a fuel cost from um you know gas or wood or whatever you might be using to heat, for instance, if you have a thermostat controlling your heating, um that's the cost of of having um you know an active system versus a passive system.
00:17:36
atack2010
-hmm
00:17:49
Alexis
Mhm.
00:17:50
Arundathi
But that can pay off for a lot of people in terms of yield, in terms of resource use efficiency.
00:17:56
Brett
Okay.
00:17:57
Arundathi
um so you know if if um
00:17:57
Josh
Mm.
00:17:59
Brett
Okay.
00:18:00
Arundathi
In your case, Alexis, if you would be the person to have to go and manually roll up the sides just because you got a notification that the temperature got too high, um there's a delay in that action.
00:18:02
Alexis
Mhm.
00:18:13
Arundathi
um And that is that is kind of an efficiency loss.
00:18:13
Alexis
Right. Mhm.
00:18:17
Arundathi
um So that stuff is all you know very, very detailed stuff that most people don't necessarily care about. right um I think in your case, since you're not on the farm all the time, it makes a lot of sense
00:18:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
Agricultural Decisions & Technology
00:18:29
Arundathi
to have that feature because the thing that you're saving, the most important thing of all is your effort, your labor effort and your ability to spend time on other things. um So the reason I encourage people to think about active versus passive control is to basically get people thinking about what their time and effort is worth next to the cost of investing in that technology and also operating it.
00:18:49
Brett
Thank
00:18:51
Alexis
Yeah.
00:18:55
Alexis
Look at you having people think about paying themselves in some way or another because farmers are the worst at that.
00:18:57
Brett
you.
00:19:00
atack2010
Yeah.
00:19:03
atack2010
You made the absolute best point.
00:19:04
Alexis
Small businesses are, yeah.
00:19:05
atack2010
Yeah. ah pay You have to pay, you have to see a payback at some point. Are under the, do you, have you worked for the very many folks yet where even before they have the first greenhouse on, on their operation, have you had the opportunity to work with people and work through that thinking process to say, and ask them, why are you doing this? Why, why, why have you had that opportunity much?
00:19:24
Arundathi
Yeah,
00:19:25
atack2010
I mean, to me, that's like the question.
00:19:26
Arundathi
I'm actually That is really the question. And I think it's, you know, ultimately I think it's like the main question that we in Extension need to walk people through because everyone's case is going to be a little bit different.
Kentucky Growers' Projects
00:19:39
Arundathi
um So that's, I think what probably keeps this job kind of interesting, even if the technologies are the same, it's never going to be a straightforward answer.
00:19:40
atack2010
yeah
00:19:47
Arundathi
um But I do have this opportunity right now.
00:19:47
Josh
Okay.
00:19:51
Arundathi
I'm working on a project with a few different growers around the state. All of them are somehow interested in Um, well, so the, the group term for high tunnels plus, um, greenhouses is protected ag.
00:20:00
atack2010
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:20:04
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:20:05
Arundathi
So anything that's being grown undercover.
00:20:05
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:20:08
Arundathi
Um, all of these folks are interested in protected ag or they already have protected ag in their operations. Um, but they're interested in having it either because they want to extend their season more, uh, they want to expand and they need to think about where their efforts are directed. Um, some of them are just trying to experiment. um So my hope with this project and actually just um working closely with these folks to understand what it is they're doing right
Agricultural History & Innovations
00:20:36
Arundathi
now. um So they're you know logging information about um what kinds of work they've been doing during the week, how much they've been working during the week.
00:20:36
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:20:45
Arundathi
We're hoping that can tell us some things about what changes a greenhouse or a high tunnel might introduce. um I think very often the situation people run into is they get a high tunnel or a greenhouse thinking, this is going to save me money. This is going to save me time. And they end up finding out that actually their effort is just redirected into something else. um it's not It's not less work. It's different work. but
00:21:13
Alexis
I want to do that emoji is like laugh until, but then you start to cry.
00:21:14
Arundathi
um
00:21:18
Alexis
That's how I feel about that statement.
00:21:18
Arundathi
the walla
00:21:18
Josh
hahaha
00:21:23
Arundathi
So that's really what we're we're trying to understand here and in Kentucky. think I think we mentioned this maybe before we started recording too, but um there's just such a diversity of reasons that people get into it um and a diversity of landscapes. You know, you have a lot of folks in the eastern part of the state that are contending with just the challenges of the landscape itself. um and seeing how and whether it can make sense to to put in a tunnel, but having done that, um it might enable them to be self-sufficient with their groceries um for a longer part of the year, which is worth a lot.
00:21:56
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:58
Josh
Mm.
00:21:58
Alexis
Yeah.
00:22:00
Arundathi
um One of the neat things um being here and learning a lot about just the history of agriculture here has been seeing all of these um older tobacco greenhouses. um And this was just, this blew my mind actually, just that, you know, people have been doing pretty low tech. I'm calling it low tech. That's not even a bad thing remotely.
00:22:25
Alexis
No.
00:22:25
Arundathi
um it's If anything, you know, one of my most important takeaways from engineering school was do it dumb.
00:22:27
Alexis
Easier to fix.
00:22:28
Josh
Totally.
00:22:29
atack2010
yeah
00:22:36
Arundathi
um
00:22:39
Josh
totally
00:22:40
Alexis
Love that.
00:22:41
Arundathi
It's usually better to just do stuff the straightforward way. So it was really cool to to see that lots of folks have been doing hydropotics in Kentucky in a low tech way for a very long time.
00:22:48
atack2010
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:22:53
Arundathi
And they've been doing it to grow transplants for the tobacco fields and have a head start on the season. So, um, I think there's so much to be learned from what's already been innovated or developed here.
Float Beds in Greenhouses
00:23:06
Arundathi
Um, and that it can be, I think it can be built upon to continue to be appropriate for um this place and for the people.
00:23:14
Alexis
Those old tobacco greenhouses are pretty wild. I've not been in a ton of them, but I know one flower grower who has one and has the old float bed and that just the amount of heat captured by the water in that float bed, which if you're not familiar with like what a float bed is, it's ah basically, it's just like a little pool, so to speak, of ah various sizes.
00:23:37
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:23:39
Alexis
This one's probably, 10 feet by five feet, something along that. But the amount of heat that is trapped in that water and it's lined with like a black rubber plastic type situation ah keeps their greenhouse above freezing. And so they can grow some things in ground without having a heater. um And I just think that's really cool. Just the added heat where like my high tunnel is going to be a little bit colder. because I don't have that water source it' just holding on to that heat that's released overnight. And so that was fascinating when I was like, wait, how are you growing this in here? And they said, oh, wait the float bed keeps everything warm. And I was like, what?
00:24:18
Josh
hahaha
00:24:18
atack2010
I remember when those things first came, it was it was wild.
00:24:18
Arundathi
And so the
00:24:22
atack2010
In Kentucky, it was a wild time in the state because nobody had used disc four meters or nobody had a concept of parts per million as far as fertility rates.
00:24:29
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:24:30
atack2010
And it was a ah time of trial and error there for the first three to five years. And it was it was like the wild, wild west of a greenhouse. and I never thought about in those terms, but yeah, Alexis and Arunthi, it was, it was, um, I remember those times, it was a lot of stress on agents as we try to get a handle on, you know, setting some things in place, just like the, the basic stuff, uh, you know, and, and what products you can and cannot use in the water.
00:24:53
Alexis
I feel
00:24:57
atack2010
And just, yeah, it was, it was fun times, fun times, stressful even. But yeah, that's the first load. I guess I worked with a lot of those that were low tunnels. I guess I'd consider them now because they, the hoops were very small, you know, the very first ones that came.
00:25:11
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:25:11
Alexis
like you could just walk in them size size or ah okay, so they were true like low.
00:25:13
atack2010
You could even, you couldn't even walk in them. A lot of those, uh, the, like individual growers growing their own transplants, because, uh, before that you had in-ground tobacco beds. And so they adapted that concept of the spatial requirements for a tobacco bed, the rough dimensions. They said, Oh, we're going to just add water and put a hoop over it.
00:25:30
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:25:30
atack2010
So the first ones that I ever worked with, it was more common that they just be three or four feet off the ah water. In Grant County, that's one the first ones I ever worked with. uh, there in the Northern part of the state. And yeah, it was interesting. and But then they got more sophisticated and in fact got
Technology Adoption Challenges
00:25:45
atack2010
very sophisticated for the larger transplant growers, full blown greenhouse operations.
00:25:45
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:25:49
atack2010
And it was pretty amazing there at the end that they were, you know, fully compliant with like industry standard production methods. And it was pretty cool to see, you know, the first float beds kind of morph over the years into, you know, a larger operation at the, at the apex of a tobacco production in Kentucky. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's good stuff.
00:26:09
Arundathi
How were people um making those developments? Did it come mostly through work with agents, you think, or were there sort of in presence or?
00:26:16
atack2010
um and ah At that time, I guess I'm dating myself a little bit. ah You know, not everyone had, yeah, the late 1800s, early 1900s.
00:26:23
Alexis
We already know you're from the 1800s. Don't worry about it.
00:26:25
Josh
Hehehe.
00:26:30
atack2010
But yeah, cell phones were not, I mean, you didn't have connectivity in your pocket. So at that time, Extension was a little bit different type of organization in that. ah you know we were a lot more informational based and we had like paper publication. And a lot of that was just sort of trial and error and Kentucky was leading the nation in production methods for that specific crop. ah But I mean, tobacco meetings then, whereas a tobacco meeting now in a county, maybe 50, 60 people, not even that.
00:26:58
Josh
Wow.
00:26:58
atack2010
And for the most part, they've gone by the wayside, but back then at a spring meeting, it was not uncommon to have 300 people. And they just would hold on to every single word. And I don't know if you guys have ever done any work on with things like capillary mats. We experimented with capillary mats and gravity mats and all sorts of interesting things for plant production principles.
00:27:14
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:27:19
atack2010
ah In addition to hydroponic like float beds, very basic float beds, but for the most part, they relied on extension offices because when you got the information that spring, it was brand new information that a quick trial had been put together and the research information was somewhat vetted, but it still got pushed out.
00:27:25
Alexis
Hmm.
00:27:36
Alexis
We did this once and it didn't fail completely.
00:27:37
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah, it didn't completely kill every single plant. So yeah, yeah, there was a lot of reliance on I guess the extension service at that point and information did not flow as freely as it did now.
00:27:42
Alexis
So like, try it out. Let us know.
00:27:49
atack2010
ah But it was just a different time and and it was exciting but also terrifying. I remember because you don't want to mess anything up. And if you got your fertility rates, I mean, this is at a time where a glug glug didn't get it done. as far as the rate in the water. and um And so that was a new concept for farmers at the time ah that we're producing these transplants. ah It was just a different time. and And so we had a lot of discussions on the need for precision of your solution that these things were growing in. And not a lot of people paid attention. There was a couple years with a lot of failures, and then people started paying attention.
Precision in Controlled Environments
00:28:24
atack2010
ah But that's sort of how it slowly just came about. um But it was it was it was good times. But the information was just, it was interesting to be a part of the information development. ah That's what was neat ah for such an important industry and agricultural industry for the state.
00:28:34
Josh
Mm.
00:28:40
atack2010
Yeah.
00:28:41
Arundathi
Yeah, I feel like this, I mean, you mentioned precision. I think people think controlled environment means precision because it very often is about keeping very tight tolerances, which, you know, I guess in a way that is the long-term goal, but it doesn't mean that it's less controlled just because you have a wider range, you know, um like, yeah.
00:28:53
atack2010
Mm
00:29:03
Alexis
Thank you, that makes me feel better.
00:29:05
Josh
Hehehe.
00:29:07
Arundathi
So yeah, I guess very concretely the the system that Alexis described to me, I would, I would say is a, um, it is a controlled and an actively controlled environment. Um, and it's just not with the super high precision that you would have in your house where your AC will kick on if it gets too hot and your heating will kick on if it's too cold and you can keep a very tight range.
00:29:19
atack2010
-hmm
00:29:25
Alexis
Mhmm. Mhmm.
00:29:31
Arundathi
Um, and it's hard to do that in, in a, in a growing environment.
00:29:32
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:29:36
Arundathi
anyway So it really is, I think, a lot of trial and error at the end. And it really is about understanding your own system, you know measuring lots of different places.
00:29:43
atack2010
Mm-hmm
00:29:45
Arundathi
you know You have all these microclimates in your greenhouse. It's easy to to convince yourself that, oh, you know I know exactly what's happening in here all the time. But in a way, the more information you have, the more you realize that there's lots of gaps in what you know. and um Yeah, you're just, at the end, just ah going through this process of understanding your own system well enough to be able to predict how how to control it well.
00:30:13
atack2010
It was interesting that you say that, and you worked with me on this particular case in my county of Runedithi. It was the last, you know, significant email string we traded back and forth, but um people will stick with what they know. And I was working with a ah producer that's got several greenhouses now. And I was trying to slowly migrate them towards proportional injectors.
00:30:31
Brett
Okay. Okay.
00:30:34
atack2010
And we had this whole discussion um you know around a proportional ejector. They can be pretty straightforward, but you can go down a rabbit hole with those with
Balancing Tradition & Innovation
00:30:42
atack2010
solution tanks and all of that ah fun stuff.
00:30:42
Alexis
Hehehe.
00:30:44
atack2010
And they were using um more of an old-fashioned type of injector, um that like a PVC injector that was sort of homemade.
00:30:52
Brett
Okay.
00:30:52
atack2010
But they knew that it worked to grow floral crops. They knew exactly how much of a given amount of fertilizer X that they had to get into their operation that week. And they would, you know, put some food coloring in there. And when it turned clear, you know, they, they had this method down that they had, you know, kind of designed over the course of several years, very, very low tech, but it worked for them. They got a little spooked by the fact that, you know, of changing injectors and everything, even though we're still going to work with them on going in that direction in the future, I believe it's a good direction to go in.
00:31:24
atack2010
But they went back to the original production method this year just because that they knew that it worked. And um I guess through trial and error, it works very well for them because they know their operation. They know which greenhouses are a little windier, which needs to be ventilated a little bit more, and it's going to pull more water that way.
00:31:39
Alexis
Mm
00:31:42
atack2010
I mean, they know.
00:31:43
Alexis
hmm.
00:31:44
atack2010
And it's just through that trial and error where I'm over here like, no, no, we need to go you know to these injectors. They're more precise. And they said, but we know that this works.
00:31:51
Josh
Thank you.
00:31:53
atack2010
So there's always that push and pull.
00:31:53
Alexis
Yeah.
00:31:55
Brett
Okay.
00:31:55
atack2010
And and I believe it's a smart thing you know when your livelihood's at stake.
00:31:56
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:32:00
atack2010
ah So I think what we're going to work with them on in the future is maybe trying that with the one house, the new injectors that, you know, they've been around forever, but it's a new process for them. So they're going to slowly change. And it's interesting that even people that are involved with greenhouses, they tend to be pretty progressive minded folks, I think, but they're still cautious when you throw new things in there. Do you see that any, when you're talking about the new technology and monitoring systems and all this, do you ever see that?
00:32:25
Arundathi
Oh, definitely. Yeah, of course.
00:32:26
atack2010
Yeah.
00:32:27
Arundathi
and And, and in a lot of ways, you know, it can feel like almost higher stakes when you have a greenhouse because it costs you money to, you know, put, put that energy in and that's, it is a.
00:32:35
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah, that's it.
00:32:38
Brett
you
00:32:38
atack2010
Every mistake is magnified. You know, it seems like if you kind of mess something up, you usually see that in certain situations pretty darn quickly.
00:32:41
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:32:46
atack2010
Yeah, for sure.
00:32:47
Arundathi
Yeah, definitely.
00:32:48
atack2010
For sure.
00:32:49
Alexis
I wonder how much of it is just like, uh, I find myself, uh, starting to understand like my dad or, uh, older agents who used to be in my office who were just like, I don't want to learn something new.
Purpose of Agricultural Technology
00:33:04
Alexis
And it's as much as like, as a millennial grew up with tech, love learning about that. Sometimes it's just like, I don't have time or brain space to learn something new and you know, it will help. You know, it's an improvement. You know, you should do it, but it's like, just the amount of overwhelming, especially like in the season or you're you know trying to get started in the season, it can seem just very overwhelming to, to get new stuff.
00:33:21
atack2010
Yeah.
00:33:28
Alexis
And so I think, you know, so it's okay to stick with what you know, if it is working, um, you know, you don't have to, right.
00:33:34
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah. And usually that's the motivation to change is, you know, something's went wrong. If there's a motivation, like they're, those folks are already extremely busy. Yeah. Alexis, I feel that for them.
00:33:43
Alexis
and to keep it simple, stupid kind of thing.
00:33:44
atack2010
Yeah.
00:33:45
Alexis
Like don't overdo it.
00:33:46
atack2010
Yeah.
00:33:47
Alexis
I tend to want to overdo everything.
00:33:47
Brett
All right.
00:33:48
Alexis
I'm like, why? I need to put my whole greenhouse on solar. Obviously that's what I need to do. He's like, do you know?
00:33:58
Alexis
Can you, um as someone who you have helped through working through some different ideas, when people come to you and you know maybe they want to start get started with protected ag or you know maybe they want to update their passive protective act more active, kind of what those steps are that maybe if there's people listening, should ask themselves like as they kind of get to that point?
00:34:09
Josh
Mm hmm.
00:34:22
Arundathi
Sure. Yeah. I mean, of course the, the first question you start with is why are you doing this? You know, uh, what, what is it?
00:34:29
Alexis
Because I want to!
00:34:31
Arundathi
Just cause it's cool. Um,
00:34:32
Josh
I'm a big Star Trek fan.
00:34:32
Alexis
Somebody told me I should!
00:34:34
atack2010
Yeah, I like technology.
00:34:37
Arundathi
and you know, there, there certainly is a segment of folks that are, you know, just extremely serious hobbyists. Um, you know, and if you want to try something out, hell yeah, go for it. Um, you know, if you're not worried about potentially losing a lot of money, but chiefly the folks that I work with are commercial operations. So to some extent, you know the farm is a source of income for them. So you know the the first question you have to ask yourself is why?
00:35:06
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:35:06
Arundathi
And why is a business question more than anything else?
00:35:10
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:35:11
Arundathi
Are you trying to sell for longer in the season?
00:35:12
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:35:13
Arundathi
Are you trying to reduce the amount of time you spend on a thing so that you can devote your energies elsewhere? um do you think that you're gonna improve your quality? Are you trying to grow a crop that you haven't grown before? There's a lot of different directions that it goes. um And so I think really the key first thing to think about is how much is this gonna affect the business? you know um Of course, I'm not necessarily obsessed with money, but um if the idea is that this is gonna be an improvement for the business somehow, I think it's important that that people really understand why.
00:35:39
Alexis
Mm
00:35:51
Arundathi
um And, you know, speaking of, of doing upgrades and, um you know, trying to encourage people to to develop into certain technologies.
00:35:59
Alexis
-hmm.
00:36:02
Arundathi
I think there's a, you know, a really great reason to stick with what you know and it's that it's predictable. Right. and
00:36:09
Alexis
Mm
00:36:10
Arundathi
um I think the best way to to be able to move away from something that's maybe old and not working but known is to understand how it works and to understand why it works.
00:36:14
Alexis
-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:23
Arundathi
um So, you know, if you have an old system um in your greenhouse that's keeping your climate steady and you're kind of reluctant to switch to a new controller, it's worth understanding like hey, what are the microclimates in this system that are being set up and how might that change if I you know change my climate management strategy? um you know If you would, for instance, go away from having roll-up sides and have a fully closed system and put in a different machine instead to push air out of um out of the tunnel, um it would do something different to your crops, almost definitely.
00:36:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:59
Arundathi
And so understanding that impact starts with understanding what you already have. um So I really encourage people to um yeah understand why they're doing a thing and understand what it is that they already have um so that they'll have a better feel for what the impact will be when they make a change.
00:37:20
Alexis
Yeah, no, that's it.
00:37:20
Arundathi
That's pretty vague.
00:37:22
Alexis
No, I think that's good.
00:37:22
Josh
but
00:37:23
Alexis
I think from like a, like a horticulture plant person perspective, um, that's really important.
00:37:23
Arundathi
that
00:37:29
Alexis
The understanding what you have, uh, because just like you said that I would have initially thought about is, okay, if you put in a different cooling system, yeah, your temperature ends up being the same, but that doesn't mean your plants are going to be affected the same because moving air, you know, across a plant in a different way is not always like a good thing or it could be a good thing or, you know, your humidity could increase even though your temperature is down.
00:37:44
Josh
Ha ha ha!
00:37:51
Alexis
And so. There are a lot of different growing perspectives to take into account if you change up a system that way, which is, you know, just add it onto the pile of things to think about as you're growing stuff, but you don't. I think what you have taught me over our conversations just randomly throughout is, uh, you don't always have to have like the new shiny thing. The new shiny thing is great if you know how to use it and you know how it'll affect what you're doing, but like the why they're like, but
Adopting Technology: Efficiency & Sustainability
00:38:25
Alexis
Alexis, why? And I'm like, because I want to. And you're like, but why? And that's been, that was really helpful for me and just kind of like working through some situations.
00:38:35
Alexis
Um, and I think would help a lot of people even simply why, why cover, why are you going to cover your crops with, you know, remade or whatever? A lot of the things that we've talked about, why are you going to use drip irrigation if sprinklers have been working for you?
00:38:46
atack2010
Yeah.
00:38:49
Alexis
Um, so.
00:38:51
Arundathi
Yeah, yeah, it is.
00:38:52
atack2010
Brett, did we miss you a minute ago, Brett? ah Did you have a thought or comment on it before we moved on, Brett?
00:38:54
Arundathi
yeah
00:38:57
atack2010
you were
00:38:57
Brett
Oh, well, I mean, so yeah, my question was along the same lines, but it's from a different angle, sort of of. So if you say why to a grower, like why do they want to implement it? You know, that's one thing. It's an important part of it. But I think, you know, the other question I have is why should someone consider doing it? Like what are the actual compelling reasons for considering this technology?
00:39:19
atack2010
Mmm.
00:39:21
Brett
Why are there organizations and companies and others that are actively increasingly actively encouraging people to get into this. um And i don't I'm not just so trying to get to the bottom of a conspiracy theory, I just mean, you know, we we have listeners who are who are not
00:39:33
Josh
Hehehe.
00:39:34
Alexis
Typical.
00:39:38
Brett
not as initiated into some of the horticulture stuff. And so I think even just ah just a sense of like, what what's the point of this? Why is there something about the year 2024? Is there something about, you've talked a little bit about geography, um but is what is it about this technology that you know is particularly useful for our modern times?
00:39:58
Arundathi
Yeah, I think it's a great question because um you know I came from an industry scene where I think there were a lot of shiny new agriculture toys being sold around and you know very often um I think they are they tend to be suitable for larger operations in my experience and in coming to Kentucky has been a really
00:40:18
atack2010
Okay.
00:40:26
Arundathi
interesting time of seeing a lot of very productive farms that are happening on a small scale with you know one person doing all the work. um And um um and you know they're they're doing it next to their whole other lives and maybe even other jobs.
00:40:34
Josh
Mm
00:40:34
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:40:42
Arundathi
um So you know I think a lot of ah tech solutions that are sold in agriculture are kind of about, um, you know, improving sustainability or improving, uh, labor use or, you know, they're, they're, they're kind of trying to fill a need that they think growers maybe have.
00:40:55
Josh
-hm.
00:41:06
Arundathi
Um, but what I've kind of started to understand here is that everybody's case is really very different.
00:41:06
atack2010
Uh-huh.
00:41:12
atack2010
Uh-huh.
00:41:14
Arundathi
Um, and people are in it for very different reasons. And I don't think everybody that is farming is necessarily looking to not have to farm. Um, if that makes sense.
00:41:22
Josh
Right.
00:41:24
Arundathi
Um, so, Oh yeah.
00:41:24
Alexis
Which makes your job super easy.
00:41:30
Arundathi
So, um, so yeah, I think, I think there is definitely, um, you know, people see agriculture as a market, you know, farmers are always going to be around as long as people have food needs.
Maintaining Control & DIY Solutions
00:41:43
Arundathi
Um, and so it's sort of seen as a sector that can benefit from a lot of improvement. It's seen as a sector that has a lot of, um, you know, climate impact associated with it, for instance, or resource use impact.
00:41:53
Alexis
Mm
00:41:55
Arundathi
Um, and, um, you know, I think a lot of, uh, burden sort of gets automatically placed on growers to you know buy more efficient stuff, you know, um, change your practices, do this and that. And, um, you know, In a scene where a lot of people are anyway in a position of having to fix their own equipment that they use on their farm, I think it makes a lot more sense to develop resources that will allow people to um make those kinds of positive changes, but in a way that's achievable for them and accessible and that allows them to hold on to some of that autonomy um in ah in a time where a lot of things are just becoming more and more digital.
00:42:11
Alexis
-hmm.
00:42:28
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:42:33
Josh
Mm-hmm Right Right
00:42:38
Arundathi
um
00:42:39
atack2010
Hmm.
00:42:40
Brett
Arundhati Sharma right to repair. Boom. Set it here first.
00:42:42
atack2010
Yes.
00:42:43
Arundathi
oh yeah
00:42:45
atack2010
Hey, it's a big deal. I mean, the software, you may have the hardware, but if they've got your software, if you don't have full control of integrated software and hardware, then not good, not good.
00:42:49
Brett
Yeah.
00:42:54
Brett
I say that jokingly, but I'm a big advocate of right to repair and across different.
00:42:56
atack2010
Yeah.
00:42:59
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:43:01
Brett
That's part of what you're talking about is this difference but between like who who controls the right to decide whether a product continues being used or has to be purchased and replaced.
00:43:06
Arundathi
Oh, yeah.
00:43:11
Brett
or Yeah.
00:43:13
Josh
Right, or if you're having to pay a subscription of some kind in order to keep this automation.
00:43:13
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:43:13
atack2010
Love it.
00:43:15
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:43:19
atack2010
To keep software updated, I look, maybe, maybe we're talking about the, the observant create crowd, ah you know, with greenhouses and that that's the entrepreneurs, the innovators out there.
00:43:19
Brett
yeah
00:43:19
Arundathi
Exactly. Well, there's.
00:43:24
Brett
Okay.
00:43:28
atack2010
They go and look at these trade shows and then they go back and recreate it somehow on a lower level themselves, the observant create bunch.
00:43:32
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:33
Josh
Right, right.
00:43:35
Alexis
Superglue?
00:43:35
atack2010
They're the ones I'm there for. Yes. We can make that the makers, the the true makers.
00:43:38
Josh
Reverse engineering.
00:43:40
Arundathi
Reverse engineering.
00:43:41
atack2010
Yeah. There you go.
00:43:42
Arundathi
Well, and you know, one ah one of the other reasons that I kind of like to encourage people to look at, you know, sort of homemade automation solutions, whether it's, you know, like, oh, you know, I bought like a little raspberry pie and I'm going to have it control some little smaller components in my greenhouse.
00:43:56
atack2010
Mm-hmm
00:43:59
Arundathi
Like, I think people should go ahead and try that out. um And part of the reason for that is, um I mean, it might not seem like that now, but the internet has a long history of hosting a lot of very open source
00:44:03
atack2010
Oh,
00:44:04
Brett
Bye.
00:44:12
Arundathi
fix it yourself kind of communities.
00:44:12
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:44:12
Josh
Yeah.
00:44:14
atack2010
so yeah Absolutely, yeah
00:44:15
Arundathi
And indeed, you know it's also a host for a lot of information and a lot of YouTube videos that people use to fix their analog equipment too.
00:44:21
Alexis
Yeah.
00:44:24
Arundathi
um So I really like to yeah encourage people to to understand how digital tools work as well so that it doesn't have to feel like every time something moves over to an app or every time something you know stops being ah
00:44:31
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:44:32
atack2010
Mmhmm.
00:44:42
Arundathi
I don't know, um run with gears and levers that they're losing control of it.
00:44:46
Alexis
Yeah.
00:44:50
Arundathi
It doesn't have to be like that.
00:44:52
Alexis
Where would I go if I'm wanting to kind of get started in some very basic, you know, temperature control, some of those really simple things, ah like what we've talked about. Is there a good resource you recommend for people to look at?
00:45:09
Arundathi
I think a lot of um You know, when people get started with some sort of simple um programs, they'll they'll use like an Arduino, um little little kind of um microcontrollers that actually I think a lot of kids even learn how to use a little bit in school these days.
00:45:27
Alexis
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:45:28
Arundathi
um And they have lots of just pre-made templates. They have a lot of sensors that are already meant to work with that environment. And so it's not the sort of thing where, you know,
00:45:36
atack2010
Mmhmm.
00:45:38
Arundathi
you should have to feel like you need tons of programming knowledge or something to interact with.
00:45:38
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:45:42
Arundathi
But you can have this um just this experience of seeing, OK, I wrote a thing here, and I can have it print out to me a temperature reading that came off of this little sensor that's next to my computer.
00:45:51
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:45:55
Arundathi
um That's the first step, is being able to collect measurements, collect data. um And then the next step is thinking about, how do I want my system to react to that information?
00:46:07
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:46:07
Arundathi
and that in a lot of ways is kind of the hard part, but it's the part that people already are doing every time they make decisions on the farm is they're asking themselves, okay, is it too cold outside for me to, to
DIY Automation Steps
00:46:23
Arundathi
or rather, is it too hot outside for me not to to have the the sides um raised, or is it too windy um for me not to?
00:46:23
Alexis
Open the sides, yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:46:32
Arundathi
Just to to take the example that you gave, you know, that is a ah decision that you're taking yourself every time. And so the hard part is in a way coming up with a systematic logic for that that you can tell the program to follow. um But that would be a place to start. And in general, when people have questions about, hey, this thing, my program doesn't work. um Stack Exchange, just any kind of like online forum ah is ah yeah a great source for that.
00:47:00
Alexis
Yeah.
00:47:02
Arundathi
Josh probably has you know millions of these stores somewhere.
00:47:06
Josh
thats That's the move is to basically just type exactly what is happening to you in one really long search.
00:47:12
atack2010
Boolean search.
00:47:13
Josh
And then you get to know those sites like StackExchanger.
00:47:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:47:15
Josh
It's like, oh, yeah. Because I guarantee you now, how matt no matter how like creative and unique you think you are, 6,000 people have already had your exact problem.
00:47:24
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:47:25
atack2010
You just got to find that user group.
00:47:26
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:47:26
Alexis
ah that That reminds me to mention, you're not special.
00:47:28
Brett
Josh, you sound like my mom when I was in high school and struggling.
00:47:31
Josh
definite
00:47:32
atack2010
You're not special.
00:47:34
Brett
6,000 people have had this problem.
00:47:35
Alexis
um
00:47:35
Josh
okay
00:47:37
atack2010
even
00:47:38
Alexis
that That reminds me of a resource that we should put down ah in the show notes that Josh has actually worked on for high tunnels. And it was um temperatures, so kind of minimum, maximum, ideal temperature sense for crops.
00:47:38
Brett
Oh, thanks, Mom.
00:47:50
Josh
Oh, yeah.
00:47:52
Alexis
Yeah, you wrote it for crops in a high tunnel ah throughout. And you you've got one for kind of every region of the state, right, Josh?
00:48:02
Josh
Yeah, but of course, the temperatures don't change, right? But it yeah, has like the it has the like minimum and then like the optimal.
00:48:04
Alexis
Right, right. The temps don't change. but
00:48:10
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:10
atack2010
Mm-hmm like min max
00:48:11
Josh
ah But but it's like it gives you a range and then like your optimum.
Resources for Controlled Environments
00:48:14
Josh
That would be like a good reference.
00:48:14
atack2010
optimal awesome You
00:48:15
Alexis
So if you're wanting to grow a new crop and you know, say your high tunnel, maybe you've been keeping, I went and got a little sensor from like ACE hardware that like gave me 24 hours, like the past 24 hour highs and lows.
00:48:21
Brett
Bye.
00:48:27
Alexis
Uh, I mean, just some, it was like $5. And so you can do something as simple as that.
00:48:30
atack2010
me
00:48:32
Alexis
And so if you're looking to, you know, say, okay, what, what is my tunnel already doing or my greenhouse already doing, what do I need it to do based on these, you know, Swiss chard has an optimal temperature of. 65 degrees. I don't actually know I made that up. um You can take that information and then set you know sensors moving forward um based on you know, kind of info that's on the internet, on UK's websites, on the internet, or at your local county extension office, which you can call if you're in Kentucky, you have one, every county does. If you're not in Kentucky, I'm sorry, but you also have an extension university if you're in the United States, so you can call them.
00:49:14
Josh
Oh, well, we'll definitely put a link to that.
00:49:16
atack2010
Yeah.
00:49:16
Josh
ah what The resource that this appears on is the ah high tunnel planting day calendars.
00:49:19
atack2010
Mm
00:49:21
Josh
And it's like a reference document that, you know, when and ah what part of the state you're in.
00:49:22
atack2010
hmm.
00:49:25
Josh
But every one of them has the same list of a bunch of different crops and crop families. And it shows kind of sometimes there's crop groups. So I can't remember exactly how many crops you can reference on this document.
00:49:38
Alexis
That's a lot.
00:49:39
Josh
Yeah, it's it's over 30, I want to say, but it gives you like the minimum and the optimal temperature range for all of them.
00:49:48
Alexis
So, there's some info for you.
00:49:49
Brett
There's a couple, couple of the things that I don't know if you mentioned in passing that if you want to look into them a little bit more, one is raspberry pie. So it's like the fruit and then pie, like the number, like the.
00:49:58
Josh
Yes. The cool number.
00:50:00
Alexis
Yeah, I don't know what that is.
00:50:00
atack2010
like i like pi
00:50:02
Josh
Those are awesome.
00:50:03
Brett
Yeah, and then the other one was Arduino, A-R-D-U-I-N-O. There's pretty robust communities of people for both of those. um But that's those are just like platforms and technologies you can use to get into DIY automation and electronic programming um of different sorts. with other people who did not go to computer engineering school or wherever you know it's it's very like there is a really excited and and you could do there's applications in agriculture but like i would say the overwhelming majority are not agricultural applications that you'll find it's.
00:50:25
atack2010
I like pie.
00:50:27
Josh
Bye.
Innovative Engineering Solutions
00:50:38
Brett
A lot of it can be kind of goofy and fun stuff like programming. I've seen people program like um the scrolling, like you see a sign that has a scrolling banner on it, but they'll like program those for their house and be able to like have those in their, like in the, I don't know.
00:50:47
Alexis
isn
00:50:52
Brett
That was one of them that I remember seeing, but you could have it like. theoretically have it turn your lights off and on you know that kind of thing it's like it's it's ah those open source diy platforms but if you're a googler or an explorer like me and you didn't quite catch or arduino i remember not knowing how to spell it for a long time um but yeah those are a couple of the the spots you might check out.
00:51:07
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:51:14
Alexis
Sweet. All right, Ruthie. One final question. What is the weirdest or coolest or most random thing you have seen a grower like fix or make up to make something work?
00:51:17
atack2010
Thanks.
00:51:28
Alexis
Because I'm sure you've seen some wild, very clever, but very duct taped central, which no judgment on that. I'm just saying, is there like something that sticks out to you?
00:51:39
Arundathi
Um, I don't know if, uh, I mean, your description makes it sound so hacky. Um,
00:51:45
Alexis
No, I i mean, hacky in the best possible way.
00:51:46
Arundathi
but
00:51:48
atack2010
Engineered.
00:51:48
Arundathi
yeah.
00:51:49
atack2010
Let's say um ad hoc engineering.
00:51:49
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:51
Arundathi
Ad hoc.
00:51:51
Alexis
If if you can make something function, be in hacky, I'm impressed.
00:51:52
Arundathi
Yeah.
00:51:52
Josh
Think of it as maybe bespoke.
00:51:55
atack2010
Yeah.
00:51:55
Arundathi
Bespoke. Um, you know, I've seen, it's really not even that weird.
00:51:57
atack2010
Oakesy engineering.
00:51:58
Alexis
I like folksy.
00:51:59
atack2010
Oakesy engineering.
00:52:05
Arundathi
at all.
00:52:06
Alexis
But impressive, maybe.
00:52:07
Arundathi
But the thing that comes to mind because because I was impressed by it or because I thought like, hey, like everybody should have that, kind of relates to what you said about the the about the float bed. I saw somebody that had set up just like a water heater boiler, a water boiler kind of heat set up. And they had pipes running all through all through their greenhouse. And that was just like the more efficient way to heat their greenhouse.
00:52:25
Josh
Mm.
00:52:28
Arundathi
But they just found that thing. um There was one brother who was a plumber. There was another one who was an electrician. And I got that going.
00:52:35
Alexis
Oh, wow. Well.
00:52:36
atack2010
hmm match made in heaven
00:52:36
Josh
but
00:52:37
Arundathi
ah
00:52:39
Alexis
Yeah, I've always.
00:52:40
Arundathi
Yeah, but they had, um there was a,
00:52:41
Brett
One brother was a candlestick maker.
00:52:43
Alexis
ah Yeah, horticulturists, I feel like i ah you would think I would know how to grow things really well. But really, I kind of wish I was a plumber or an electrician. I feel like I could figure out the plant knowledge, the plumbing and electrician part of it is the struggle ah for me.
00:52:52
Josh
No joke.
00:52:59
Alexis
I'm like, oh, I can tell you all about soil microbiology. And it's like, yeah, I mean, that's great. But also,
00:53:05
Josh
Is this pipe fitting going to hold when I turn the line back on?
00:53:06
Alexis
is the pipe fitting going to hold?
00:53:07
atack2010
Yes.
00:53:08
Josh
but
00:53:10
Brett
I mean, ah it's mostly about but plant even growing plants is mostly about moving water to the right places and like ions exchanging with each other.
00:53:16
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:53:19
Brett
So it really is kind of electricity and plumbing.
00:53:21
Alexis
Just chemistry, baby. It's just chemistry.
00:53:24
Arundathi
haven
00:53:27
Alexis
Awesome. All right. Any final words, anything you want people to know before we kind of get out of here?
00:53:35
Arundathi
I think um you know with With digital stuff when we talked about a bunch about, you know, getting into some of these more like hobbyist level, um you know, do it yourself ah controls that you can set up. I think it can be easy to get discouraged with that stuff. um i I certainly have gotten like stressed out about it in the past. you know You're like not finding anybody quite doing exactly what you're doing in the in the forums on the internet.
00:54:03
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:54:07
Arundathi
And it can it can feel really discouraging. And I would really encourage people not to not to get like, yeah, don't feel hopeless about it and you know reach out to me. I'm happy to help you troubleshoot your your little codes. um and um And um yeah, I would really encourage people to not be scared of trying to fix some of that stuff. um It's a matter of just understanding understanding how it works. um you know At the end, everything will be somewhere in it, kind of an analog piece.
Embracing Diversity in Horticulture
00:54:43
Arundathi
so
00:54:45
Alexis
I can say ah as a plant person, I very much appreciate your engineer brain and how valuable the way you think about things is to like the horticulture department and UK extension. I just feel like the way you look at things is so valuable because we can get caught up in the in the planty world and get stuck, I think, sometimes. So thank you for being here today. Thank you for being you and being amazing.
00:55:05
Arundathi
Well, ah thank you for having me. I am so happy to get to hang out with this great group of people, more importantly.
00:55:16
Alexis
but Well, ah you know, we're all just kind of awesome anytime.
00:55:18
Josh
No problem.
00:55:20
atack2010
She is looking at us like they're builder makers for sure.
Conclusion & Contact Information
00:55:23
atack2010
Yeah.
00:55:23
Brett
I speak for all of us when I say you're welcome, yeah.
00:55:23
atack2010
They make stuff up as they go. Yeah.
00:55:28
Alexis
Awesome. All right. Well, ah definitely check out the show notes for more information, those publications we talked about. ah We'll throw Arun to the end of the bus and put her her info in there as well so you can find her wherever you are. and Of course, you can always reach out to us um at our email, which is also in the show notes. You can reach out to us there. We've had a couple people lately ah do that just asking questions you know what's wrong with my cabbage or ah does this tree look okay and that's all right to send those to us too or if you have ideas for shows we always appreciate that we get some great ones out of there so thank you
00:56:04
Alexis
You can follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture podcast. You can send us messages on there. If you're a social person rather than an email person, that's okay. We understand. So you can shoot us that there. Leave us a review if you're so inclined, if you're like have a read with you back because she's awesome and you want to know more about controlled environments. We can certainly do that. Just drop us that in a review, but that's all. Thank you for being with us today. And we hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us. Have a great one.