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Episode 001: Amy & Jordan Demos - Marriage, Time Management, and Business
234 Plays7 years ago
Photographers & educators Amy & Jordan Demos share their tips for managing time, working as a husband and wife team, and growing a business.
Amy and Jordan Demos are professional photographers and educators who help people take better photos and build profitable businesses that change lives. They started as elementary school teachers who didn’t know anything about photography, but turned their passion into one of the most successful photography businesses in America’s fifth largest city. They’ve photographed a million dollar wedding, had their work featured in People and were recognized by Rangefinder as a “Top 10” educator. But if you ask them, they’d tell you that achieving their own dreams doesn’t come close to helping other photographers reach theirs.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-amy-jordan-episode-1/
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Transcript
Starting a Business: Managing Finances and Time
00:00:10
Speaker
So I would just encourage everyone trying to really be careful about how you manage your time because if you can cut your living expenses way down and you can cut your time to the, cut all the waste out of your time, now you're finally in a position to go, okay, how much money do I need to go full time in this business and run this business? And you'll have a realistic idea of if you can do it. And Davey, this is the secret to Home Goods dates. Okay. Okay. I'm listening. He is dancing all this time. When you go on Home Goods dates,
00:00:38
Speaker
things are good at home. But for all the guys that are listening, just remember, when she says home goods, I want you to think about good at home.
Meet the Guests: Amy and Jordan Demos
00:00:51
Speaker
All right, welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davey Jones, and today we're chatting with Amy and Jordan Demos, two incredible photographers out of Scottsdale, Arizona. And in addition to be incredible photographers, they're also awesome educators.
Working as a Husband-Wife Team
00:01:09
Speaker
But today we're talking a little bit about working as a husband and wife team, their marriage, and how time management is one of the keys to their success.
00:01:28
Speaker
Well, I'm so glad that you guys decided to join me. I mean, I feel like we've known each other for a while now. And I consider Chris and I pretty intentional people. You know, we do a lot of planning together. We talk about things. But every time that we get an opportunity to spend time with you guys, we always leave, A, feeling refreshed, and B, just feeling challenged in certain ways. And I mean that in the best of ways.
00:01:56
Speaker
whether it be time management, whether it be things that are in our marriage. And so I'm so happy that you guys are letting me interview you and talk about those things.
Amy and Jordan's Journey into Photography
00:02:07
Speaker
Because you're such talented photographers, but today we're not going to talk a ton about photography. We're going to talk about, you know, how you guys make it work, you know, how you guys work together so well as a husband-wife team, how your marriage flourishes and at the same time,
00:02:24
Speaker
your business flourishes. So I'm excited to dig into that stuff with you guys. Well, thank you. Thanks for having us. And we feel the same way about you and Krista. So I feel like both of you are so intentional that that's quite a compliment coming from you because we feel the same way. So we're just excited to be here. Thanks for having us. Mostly about Krista. She is.
00:02:45
Speaker
She is a super intentional person. And she gets right to the point. There's not a ton of fluff with her. But I do want to start talking about just your photography business in general. So for people who aren't familiar with your business, how did you guys get started? What does that look like?
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean we got started in a very unconventional way. I feel like I fell in love with photography when we got engaged, the idea of photography when we got engaged. We were looking for a wedding photographer for us and it was the first time I stumbled across a different type of photographer. In my head, stereotypically, photographers were
00:03:26
Speaker
Um, like Hank from parenthood plays this guy named Hank. And we just picture that every photographer was like a male in his fifties, like must wear black, must wear all black and must live in the dark room. Like actually having bed in there and develops photos.
00:03:44
Speaker
And when I was searching for a photographer for us, I stumbled across this whole other world of the opposite of Hank from Fahrenheit, of people who were living lives in the light. It was a really relational job and out on location and the freedom and flexibility. And all of a sudden I was like, wow, people can do this for a living? That's amazing. So I kind of banged that idea in my head.
00:04:08
Speaker
And Jordan and I started teaching elementary school together at the same school in next door classrooms. And the very first year that I was teaching, I was standing in line for my yearbook photos and found myself as close to a photographer as I'd ever been in their natural habitat when I was standing in line for yearbook photos. And so I was about to get my photo taken for yearbook. And since we taught at such a small school,
00:04:38
Speaker
We didn't have a big company come in like Life Touch or something like that. We had an actual one man professional photographer who was a father of one of the students and bless his heart. He volunteered his time to take all of the yearbook photos. So I was I'd never been that close to another photographer and asked him out of the blue. I just want to jump into because I feel like when Amy says I had never been that close to a photographer, what you have to remember is this was in the fall of 2009.
00:05:07
Speaker
And so when you think about the evolution of Insta stories and Periscope and Facebook Live and all the different video and social media technologies that have come along since then,
00:05:20
Speaker
really the only way to kind of like get a glimpse behind the scenes of what it was like to be a professional photographer was to read somebody's blog, right? Like Facebook was still, it's really primitive, not primitive stage, but it hadn't quite evolved to the point where it is now. And we didn't have smartphones. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Instagram, was that even a thing then? You know, we didn't know cause we didn't own a smartphone. Interesting exists until like now I feel like it's a little bit more common for you to be able to kind of like,
00:05:48
Speaker
get not just a glimpse, but kind of like see lots of different photographers or other creative business owners, the behind the scenes and what it looks like. And for us, that just wasn't really a thing. So it was almost like we had like caught like this, like gazelle in the wild, you know? And so I don't know what came over me, but I just said, do you ever photograph weddings? That's what I want to do one day. And kind of, and he told me that he did. And so I asked him if I could come with him sometime. I was like, I will,
00:06:14
Speaker
I'll work for free. I'll carry you bags. I'll get you water. I just want to see what it's like. And that was how we got started. So he agreed. I think after wondering why is the fourth grade teacher at my daughter's school asking to shoot weddings with me, I wasn't even asking to shoot. I just wanted to be there. But from there, I caught the bug and quickly dragged Jordan
Transitioning Careers: Teaching to Photography
00:06:34
Speaker
in.
00:06:34
Speaker
And yeah, the rest is history. We realized pretty quickly, I was one that fell in love with photography first, but pretty quickly I wrote to Jordan into the idea of being our own bosses one day and being able to run a business together and have freedom and flexibility together. And I think it could have been almost anything, photography or any other thing.
00:06:56
Speaker
that would have allowed us to do that together, but that's how I got him hooked. We were on a much more traditional track, you know, like we were kind of looking down the barrel of like 30 or 40 or 50 years of doing the same thing, of staying in the same profession, of having limits on the amount of free time we could have, the amount of money that we could make. And for us, you know, when we first started dating when we were in high school, not even when we were in college or got married, but we kind of like set out like our life kind of like mantra for our marriage was
00:07:26
Speaker
to bear witness to each other's life and maximize the amount of time that we can spend together on this earth. And so we funneled every decision that we made since high school on does this allow us to maximize the amount of time together on this earth so we can bear witness to each other's life. And I know that seems like kind of like big and lofty, but I think that it's really helped us inform a lot of our decisions because I went away to California to college for my first semester of college. And we looked at each other a couple of weeks into the first semester and said, wait a second.
00:07:54
Speaker
This does not conform to this goal that we had set out for ourselves. And so I transfer home. And then when we had gotten married that first fall, I started in law school.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I was in law school for about eight weeks, and I was one of the only guys that ever dropped out halfway through the first semester. As you can see, I kind of have this pattern of quitting in my life. But it's to be with Amy. So it's all good. Everybody can understand. And we looked at ourselves and said, wait, why are we doing it? What are we doing? I'm looking down the barrel of 40 years of commuting to work away from you every day and being at a law firm and not being with you. And so then when we started teaching elementary school together, we said, OK.
00:08:33
Speaker
We finally found something that allows us to do this thing together in next door classrooms at the same school. But then when Amy caught the photography bug, we realized there was even more. And I think one of the things we found in our marriage or whatever it is, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, when you spend time with other like minded people and people who challenge you.
00:08:52
Speaker
Um, you realize there's always a little, there's always more, not like in a materialistic way, but there's always more that you can go after for your life and ways that you can improve your life and get better. And I can get richer and richer, not in monetary respect, but just in a fulfilling purposeful way. And photography was the door to that for us.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's so well said. You can always move towards more flourishing. And that's interesting, especially as teachers. I know Krista, when she caught the photography bug, and I was a teacher, we tried to spend, she had gone full time, probably two seasons before I joined her full time. But as a teacher, you're off in the summer.
00:09:35
Speaker
But that's like that was her busiest time, right? And so I was off and she was she was working hard and then in the winter You know as things slowed down a bit and you know She was able to to have time to go on, you know different adventures of stuff I was one that kind of held us at home, you know So it did make such a huge difference when I joined crystal full-time Just to have extra time together throughout the day to live our lives together to be able to go and
00:10:00
Speaker
you know, go on vacation, you know, on a week that worked for both of us, all of that. So what did that convincing look like, Amy, as you convinced Jordan to come on board? Was it really around this idea that, you know, hey, we get to spend, you know, we get to spend time together?
00:10:16
Speaker
Honestly, I don't feel like I had to do much convincing. I think that Jordan really saw the opportunity pretty quickly and he has always been the dreamer of our business and the one who he's the vision caster and he's always been the one to push us forward and see more than I've ever seen.
00:10:35
Speaker
I think I've always had smaller ideas about, you know, like, maybe this could be like a great way to make some extra money on nights and weekends. And Jordan is the one that's like, you know what, I think this could be like a full time thing. This could allow us that freedom and flexibility that we've been hoping for.
00:10:55
Speaker
So it actually didn't take much convincing at all. It was probably the other way around because I really love to play it safe and just kind of follow the rules and go along the path. And Jordan's always been a little bit more of the go-getter, vision caster, like, let's go do this. So it was probably the other way around
Strategies for Business Stability and Growth
00:11:13
Speaker
a little bit. Even though I was the one that fell in love with photography, he was the one, I would say, that had the vision for making it our new life together. Well, I think, too, like with anything, you know, whether it's in your marriage or in your business,
00:11:24
Speaker
there are certain things in life that are a process not for process sake but because the process makes you better and the process is what kind of ensures against catastrophe happening and so like if I would have come to Amy and said I think we should quit our jobs right now and just go for this thing she would have said you're insane and that would have been insane
00:11:45
Speaker
And that's one of the mistakes that we see a lot of cases, creatives, entrepreneurs make is they just go, you know what? I'm fed up with my day job. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and I'm going to stick it to the man and I'm out of here. And then, you know, Facebook, cheers, everyone cheers. Everyone's proud of you. And then the next day your bills start coming and nobody is paying those bills for you. And so I think for us, a lot of it was a process where like Amy said to me, I love this photography thing.
00:12:10
Speaker
You know, she came home in April of 2010 after she had shot her first wedding with her mentor photographer. She walked in the door. I've been laying on the couch all day watching how it was pitch black in our tiny condo. I think I had like a Snuggie on and I was watching like my fourth game. Snuggie, that really did. And I think it was the leopard, which made it even better. And so Amy walked in the door and she said, I said, how was it? And she said it was exhilarating.
00:12:39
Speaker
I think I know what I want to do for the rest of my life. So talk about like a dramatic statement from somebody who's very cautious. And at that point, I just looked at it and I said, okay, we'll figure out a way to make it happen. But it was about three years from that point, sorry, excuse me, about four years from that point that we actually pulled the trigger and went full time. And so much of that looks like, okay, you know what, I think a good starting point would be us getting a camera.
00:13:04
Speaker
And so that seems like that seems like a good starting point. You have to take it one step at a time. And so I said, you know what, I think what I'm going to do is at the time I was coaching you soccer at our church and I was like, I'm going to pick up some extra training sessions. I'm going to take on a second team. I'll start working nights and weekends to make extra money to pay for photography equipment. Because one thing we never wanted to do was it's always a risk, right, when you're trying to break out and do something.
00:13:29
Speaker
And we never wanted to mortgage our future. We didn't want to, you know, we lived on Amy's salary. We banked mine for future. We never touched any of our salary money in order to grow our photography business. We took on an extra job because it was like that extra hustle of me working that extra job felt safe to us because we realized even if this thing falls apart in two years, we get no traction. At the end of the day, we still have our retirement on track. We have our saving for a house on track.
00:13:58
Speaker
all of our bills and expenses are paid. And so we took it one step at a time. It was like as we made money, we paid cash for a camera. And as we had money, we paid cash for a lens and we took it just one step at a time. And that was for me.
00:14:12
Speaker
Even though I'm the dreamer, I'm also the savor or the nerd in the family when it comes to the money. And I wanted to see the numbers, right? Like it wasn't like we're going to go take out a business loan and drop $25,000 and then also we're terrified because we can't repay it. So I think taking it one step at a time was really healthy for us.
00:14:29
Speaker
I think that's really interesting too that you are both the dreamer and then also the person on the financial side that wants to see the numbers and the saver. I think with Chris and I, she is, I'm also the dreamer, but I don't really want to see the numbers. I'm so grateful that in our marriage, she is so intentional and disciplined with that side of things.
00:14:52
Speaker
So as you were, and the other thing that I want to say was just that process of, you know, Amy's excited, you know, she thinks she's found out what she wants to do for the rest of her life, right? And I think it'd be easy for somebody to say, okay, now I'm gonna go get a line of credit, I'm gonna buy
00:15:07
Speaker
I'm gonna buy a new camera on my credit card, and I'm gonna try to do this as quick as possible.
Marriage and Business: Interconnected Success
00:15:13
Speaker
But I think it's so wise to take your time for you to have taken on extra training sessions, to work nights and weekends, because during that time too, you can also continue to feel out that process. And maybe you decide two months later, oh, this wasn't, I really wasn't called to this. And instead of spending thousands of dollars on your credit card that now you have to pay back,
00:15:37
Speaker
You did it, you know, what I would consider the right way, just taking your time and going through that process, doing the hard work, even though it took maybe a little bit longer. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's one of the things we recommend whenever we talk to specifically like husband and wife teams or like newly engaged couples who are going to get married and they want to have a business together. They always ask us, like, what's the secret? Like, that's kind of where we've been in nine years, so we don't know everything. But they'll say, what's the secret? And Jordan's running up. We haven't quite hit. We're almost tonight.
00:16:06
Speaker
But we always tell people, you know, the secret to having a great business as a husband and wife team is having a great marriage. And for me, and this is just me speaking, I never understood people who said things like, well, I could just never work with my spouse. It would never work. I can never be in business with my spouse.
00:16:22
Speaker
And my response to them is when you married them, you got into business with like managing the finances of a household and raising children and having a mortgage. And the business of life is actually much more complicated than the business of business. And so one of the things we tell people all the time is get your marriage solid first. And so we recommend for people to read the total money makeover by Dave Ramsey.
00:16:46
Speaker
and the book Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerich because both books deal with the number one and number two causes of divorce in North America which are money fights and money problems and communication. And so we feel like if you can solve those problems first and specifically to get debt free but if you can solve those two problems first and be on the same page with your money and be on the same page communication wise it gives you that solid foundation because marriages
00:17:13
Speaker
has its own challenges, right? Like being married, well, even not having your own business marriage is greatest blessing in the world. And it also brings a great set of challenges, not because like Amy's, you know, not because, you know, she's not perfect. I'm not perfect, but people are just imperfect. Um, and so that's one of the things we always recommend for people is read those two books and get that solid because being in business together will stretch you and it will test your marriage like never before. And we would rather for couples not to go into business together and save their marriage.
00:17:41
Speaker
than for them to go into business together and then they look back two or three years later and their marriage is crumbling and they have a thriving business but then ultimately that crumbles because the foundation wasn't solid. I think when I think back to those first decisions we made for our business they almost didn't even feel like decisions because we had already
00:18:04
Speaker
laid out our values and principles in our personal life, you know, staying out of debt and the way that we were going to communicate with each other, that those foundations were already there before the business began and were things that we're working on from the beginning. And it allowed us, it informed all of our personal values, informed the way that we made our business decisions. And I think that made it feel so natural so that even though we weren't going as fast as maybe some other people did, it felt so right to us.
00:18:34
Speaker
And the other thing I'll just mention real fascinating is one of the things we recommend to people all the time is that don't go slow for slow sake. You're going as fast and as hard as you can. And when we were teaching full time and I was coaching nights and weekends and Amy was spending her evenings and weekends shooting and all that kind of stuff, we were going 100 miles an hour, you know, all but, you know, the hours that we were sleeping. But even though we were going fast during those times, it's kind of like Gary V will say, like micro hustle with a macro perspective.
00:19:02
Speaker
One of the things I would say to anybody listening right now is the one thing I don't want you to have to do is to go back and so the only thing more painful for us than Not being able to quit our teaching jobs and go full-time Would have been quitting and then six months later or a year later It not work and us have to return to the life that we were trying to escape from
00:19:26
Speaker
And so we tell photographers all the time, if you need an extra year or an extra two years or something like that, I would rather you grow slow and be able to go full time and then never look back, then get a year or two years into it and then go, oh my gosh, what have I got myself into? Now I have to go back to what I came for. And that's one of the reasons we always recommend a book that was really transformative for us, for anyone who's in that place that we were where we had full time jobs,
00:19:53
Speaker
We wanted to go full-time in our dream, but we just weren't sure how to make that happen. We read a book called Quitter by John Acuff.
Overcoming Challenges in Transitioning Careers
00:20:03
Speaker
It's one of my favorites. First of all, we're just big Acuff fans in general. Everything he writes, he's hilarious. It's easy to read. It's so informative. You fly through his stuff. It's just like eating one of the best home-cooked meals. His books are incredible, but we actually read Quitter twice.
00:20:22
Speaker
because the first time we read it, it really helped. It was like a gentle, I wanted to say like slap in the face, but that's not... A gentle slap in the face. Yeah, it was like a gentle poke between the eyes that made us realize that we weren't ready to go full-time when we first started dreaming of it, and that we needed to put a plan in place to be able to do it responsibly. And the second time we read Quitter,
00:20:46
Speaker
is when we realize, you know what, we have been preparing now and now we feel like we're ready to make that transition. Well, yeah, I think like Amy and I, you know, we kind of say all the time that like whatever reason, the millennial generation, we're like the special snowflake generation where like we just like we're used, everyone in our classes got participation ribbons, whether you want first place or last place. And so because of that, I think a lot of us feel that we're so special and that we're just entitled to having our own business. We're just entitled to clients paying us what we deserve. I hear that all the time.
00:21:14
Speaker
You know, people, your clients need to respect you and pay you what you deserve. Um, and I just think that's the wrong mentality. I think that like the reality is that you might be a special snowflake up until you get out of the public school system. But once you get into the real world, the real world doesn't care about your feelings. It really doesn't like the real world doesn't care. You have to go bring value into the market that you are trying to perform in. And I think John Acuff's book was a very gentle way of letting us know like, Hey, if you haven't done X, Y, and Z, you're really not ready to quit your full time job.
00:21:44
Speaker
And it was almost like a good, like a good parent who, um, Johnny does book. It kind of is like a good parent who doesn't want you to get hurt.
00:21:52
Speaker
And so they give you these rules and parameters and go, okay, when you've done these things, then you can quit. A good parent who's also hilarious. The best kind. The best kind. And that's interesting because I wonder how many people know that, you know, this process started for you guys so early, what, 2009, 2010. And then you went full time when? 2014? I wouldn't even say that I second shot, but I assisted that the dad of the school in 2010.
00:22:19
Speaker
So by 2011 we had saved up enough money to buy our own cameras and we photographed our first wedding together in 2011. That was the spring of 2011. So then we went full time at the end of the school year, which in Arizona is May of 2013. So we photographed our first wedding in the spring of 2011 and then at the end of the spring semester of 2013 is when we went full time.
00:22:46
Speaker
There was a good two full years of intense hustle, of exhaustion, of probably some unhealthy habits. But looking back, it was exactly what we needed at the time to be able to gain momentum.
00:23:02
Speaker
to the point where we could make that transition. Was there a point in which you said, okay, hey, we're ready. You know, we're ready to go full time. I'm sure there was a lot of discussions knowing you two and how well you communicate with each other. But what were some of the things that you were kind of saying, okay, we can check this off. That brings us one more step towards being able to go full time. Yeah, I think one of the things is kind of like emotionally, you get to a point when you're working full time day jobs
00:23:30
Speaker
and you're working as many hours, nights and weekends where you just kind of like physically and emotionally come to a point of exhaustion where it's like if we continue to do this for another year. And so for us as teachers, we didn't have the luxury of getting two weeks notice. So that's made our story a little bit different is that like we had to sign a contract
00:23:49
Speaker
in January for the following school year. So we had to make our decision in January of 2013. Um, we couldn't have just said, you know, let's wait until June or July or August and give two weeks. But I think that one thing is that emotionally when you feel like you're just done, like Dave Ramsey always says, when the pain of change is less than the pain of same, that's a good indicator. And I think that's a really, that's really good advice. I will say though, just as a caveat to that, I think most people, um,
00:24:17
Speaker
If you're experiencing pain alone, sometimes it's easier to give up. So for example, if I go run by myself in the evening,
00:24:25
Speaker
I get like around the block and I'm exhausted, okay? If I go to like a group fitness class where there's like 20 other people and 18 of them are women, which are the class I go to, there's a lot of women in the class. And like at yesterday's class there was a 65 year old woman who was like outpacing me, right? And all of a sudden I had this like burst of energy because I was like there was something challenging me and somebody kind of saying like it's not that bad, like buck up, you can do it. And so I think that like if you're at the point where you feel exhausted
00:24:55
Speaker
you can probably push yourself farther and harder than you think you can. So that's kind of the first piece of it. And the second piece is a straight up financial piece. And I think a lot of people, um, they aren't sure. They'll say like, at what point do I, do I go full time when I have this many weddings or if I, if I'm a florist, if I have this many events or whatever the situation is.
00:25:15
Speaker
what we decided to do because we knew we wanted to go full time together and not separately. And I think that's pretty unique. I think in, in our industry, most husband and wife teams, Kristen and I included that I talked to one has gone full time or one is making the decision to go to full time. And then their husband or their spouse will join them, you know, hopefully a year or two later.
00:25:35
Speaker
We considered that. We were going to do the same thing where Amy was going to go full time and then I was going to teach for another year. It felt safer. It felt safer, yeah. And then I was actually in New Hampshire with my dad in the winter. Dad of winter going to a friend's wedding and we were driving down the snowy interstate and I explained to him like, okay dad, this is our plan.
00:25:53
Speaker
Amy's going to quit her job. I'm going to teach for another year and this is what we're going to do. What do you think about that? And he said, well, I guess, and he was in international sales for 25 years, so he really understands the business world. And he said, well, son, I think it's an okay plan. The question I would ask you is two years from now, will you and Amy be farther along if you quit together and work together for two years or if
00:26:21
Speaker
if Amy quits and works by herself alone at home for a year, and then you join her. He goes, because I think that what you're talking about is in that plan, it's like one plus two equals three. But in the two year plan, it's two plus two equals four. And so when you get to the end of two years, you're farther along. And so he said, I think if you can make that work, you should. And that was one of the things that helped us delay our decision.
00:26:48
Speaker
But like I mentioned, the other thing was just financial piece. Since we were both working, we, like I said, we banked one salary.
00:26:55
Speaker
and we lived on one salary. So for about- One teacher salary. One teacher salary. And I know, I know how impressive that is. As a former teacher, I know how impressive that is. Well, and I can remember like very vividly, you know, so like when we were teaching, we each made, you know, probably between 30 and $35,000 a year was probably what we were making with bonuses and performance and all that included. And we banked one of those. And so what happened was by the time that it had been two or three years had elapsed,
00:27:22
Speaker
We had a really good chunk of cash that was set aside. And because we were used to living on a $30,000 salary, I mean, our grocery budget was 400 and our financial advisor said cut it in half. And so we ate on 200 bucks a month. Our date night was $25 a month.
00:27:39
Speaker
Teacher appreciation gift card, but I mean 25 bucks a month for date night is like Chipotle like one and a half times, right? So because I'm going to Chipotle I'm spending that entire $25 in one sitting That might buy me my meal One of the things I would say anybody listening right now is for us We had a couple of years of expenses living expenses saved up
00:28:07
Speaker
And up until the point we quit our job, we had never paid ourselves a dime from the business. Everything we made got reinvested to buy all of our cameras, all of our lenses, all of our flashes, all of our bags, anything that we needed. Because when we made the decision to go full time, we wanted to owe nobody anything. I don't know if that's grammatically correct, but we didn't want to owe anybody anything. We wanted to be debt free. Debt free completely. And own our gear outright. And so I would say to anybody listening, if you need to delay it a year,
00:28:35
Speaker
or he needs to delay at 18 months, in order to save one full year of expenses, we recommend one full year of expenses saved. And it's a lot easier than you might think, but you have to do two things simultaneously. One is you have to dramatically cut down your living expenses. And so if you read Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey, he helps walk you through that process. But the way that we look at it, us sacrificing by not going out to dinner for a few times a month or once a month,
00:29:04
Speaker
That was a sacrifice. And driving our beat-up car with the windows that you'd roll by hand. That was at the beginning of our marriage, which, like, we're not that old, right? So this was, like, 2009, 10, 11. We were driving one of those cars where you cranked the windows, and you'd have to lock the windows with your finger. The first was so old that it just died on me in the middle of an intersection. Just boom! And the thing was just gone. And so I think that, like,
00:29:30
Speaker
If you can discipline yourself to live on a really tight monthly budget, then you know what you actually need to make. Because a lot of times photographers say, well, how much do I need to make monthly or quarterly so I can pay myself? And my first question is, how much money do you spend? Because if somebody can live on $2,000 a month, well, then 2 times 12 is 24. You need $24,000 in the bank to pay for those expenses.
00:29:57
Speaker
But if your spending is totally crazy and out of control for what you're making and your expenses are really high, it might take you three years to save that kind of money. So if you're listening and you want to go full time with your spouse, step one is cut your living expenses as far as you can. And then step two is hustle as hard as you can in the thing that you love and want to do, but also on side jobs and side hustles to make extra money and then tuck that money away in an account till you have one year of living expenses.
Tools and Platforms for Photographers
00:30:28
Speaker
Hey friends, we're going to take a quick 60 second break so I can introduce you to one of my favorite companies and the sponsor of this episode, Show-It. Show-It is a drag and drop website building platform created especially for photographers and creative entrepreneurs. It's used by some of the biggest names in the creative industry from Amy and Jordan Demos to Kaitlyn James and it's what we built our website on too. What's awesome about Show-It is that it's both powerful and easy to use. The intuitively designed website builder
00:30:56
Speaker
makes it easy to change colors, fonts, images, and objects. Finally, a website you can update on your own without having to hire a designer for every tiny change. It's Google-friendly, and you can design the desktop and mobile versions of your website side by side
00:31:12
Speaker
to ensure your website looks great on any device. And you can even integrate a WordPress blog with your Show It website, making it that much more powerful. And guess what? They have tons of free and premium, professionally designed website templates to help you get started. But what makes Show It such a special company is their customer support. They're super responsive and are there to help every step of the way.
00:31:35
Speaker
You can even save 10% on an annual subscription by using the code btbshow. For more information, check out the show notes. And now back to our episode.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I feel like there are so many topics that I wish we could squeeze into this hour. I want to ask you more about building your photography business and getting clients and stuff. I mean, I've learned a ton from you guys on those topics as well. But there are so many topics or there's so much content on your guys' website about those things, not to mention some great courses and stuff like that.
Integrating Business and Personal Life
00:32:09
Speaker
So I want to use this to start talking about as you go full time.
00:32:14
Speaker
You guys have already taught together, which to a certain extent is working together. I'm sure you guys saw each other on a daily basis in school.
00:32:29
Speaker
classroom. So it is definitely different than what we do now. Yeah, absolutely. So as you transition to being your own bosses and working together and spending even more time together, did you guys face any challenges? Like, what was surprising about that first year, just you two, and figuring out, hey, maybe these are some things that we need to do in order to make this work? Honestly, I think
00:32:53
Speaker
I don't know if you're gonna like this answer, but we loved getting to be home together full time. That was like the main thing that we really wanted. So we loved that, but I think it does come with an extra set of figuring things out for the first time because it's not traditional, it's not conventional. Our parents certainly didn't do that. We didn't have anyone to model after, so we kind of had to figure it out as we went. And for us, I think one of the most pivotal
00:33:20
Speaker
conversations we had really early on was the idea that we were going to treat our business and our household as one identity. So like one as one entity, excuse me. So like one big umbrella covering both our personal life and our business life. And we would refer to it as Demos Inc like Demos Incorporated because there's so many roles within a business and there's so many roles within a household. And we realized that as business owners,
00:33:48
Speaker
that time was really our most valuable asset. And so the way that we spent our time in both our personal life and our business life mattered immensely to the success of the business. So understanding what our roles were and then recognizing that the personal responsibilities of things like grocery shopping and cooking and
00:34:10
Speaker
cleaning and laundry, the things that keep your life moving were just as important as putting time into marketing or building a website or editing for clients that even though those jobs were the things that looked like they produced the money and they did that if the other person was doing one of those other things it was equally as important so that there wasn't resentment
00:34:35
Speaker
when one person was working on the business and one person was working on the house or vice versa. And I think that was really key for us in our marriage because it allowed for the household and the business to flourish knowing like
00:34:48
Speaker
Cool. You're doing something for Demos Inc. I'm doing something for Demos Inc. Like we're roaring, we're going, whether it was business or personal. And one of the one of the things that husband and wife teams, specifically photographers, an example of a problem that they will bring to us is they'll say, hey, we're just really having a conflict right now because we both edit our weddings. And her style is a little different from my style. And so the galleries aren't quite consistent. And what do you guys recommend?
00:35:12
Speaker
And we say, have one person do all of the edit. And the reason for that is I think that even as a husband and wife team, we each need our own areas of responsibility where we defer to the other person and say, okay, this is your air of responsibility. You're in charge of this.
00:35:29
Speaker
I can weigh in if you have a question, I can give you a second set of eyes, but like I'm going to take ownership of this. And so for us in our business, Amy's the creative director. So anything that has to do with images, with publication submissions, with shooting, that's her main area of responsibility.
00:35:44
Speaker
and anything that has to do with the business or the home, those are my areas of responsibility. And so if I'm cooking dinner while Amy's finishing editing a session, we look at those as areas of equal importance, but also it's a much more efficient way to do things because if every other week a different person is going to the grocery store or every other week a different person is editing, it doesn't allow the other person to get what Malcolm Gladwell calls 10,000 hours before you become an expert in something. And so as silly as it sounds, because Amy does 100% of our editing,
00:36:14
Speaker
She is so unbelievably fast compared to how fast she would be if we were rotating every other week or every other month or something like that. And because I do all the grocery shopping, like I've got Costco and lockdown. So I get your Costco fast. I know what I need. I know it's like a rhythm, right? I got the pad. I check out. I get everything. I put everything away fast. I do. We do everything faster.
00:36:37
Speaker
And that was one of the things that we that we realized working together from home is that if you like Dave Ramsey always says if you don't tell your money where to go, you'll wonder where it went. If you don't tell your time where to go, you'll wonder where it went. And one of the kind of I guess you asked about mistakes. I think one of the mistakes that we made early on was we kind of looked at our days as eight in the morning to midnight and then we would just do stuff in that time frame whenever we wanted.
00:37:01
Speaker
And what ended up happening was a lot of times that meant slower mornings, less productive afternoons, and then a mad dash from 6 p.m. to midnight to try to get everything done that we didn't get done.
00:37:17
Speaker
It was not healthy. Well, the thing that we realized and you'll probably agree with this is that most people work nine to five or eight to five. And so we weren't working during those hours. Then when social things came up, when family things came up, we were, you know, quote unquote stressed because we had so much still left to do. But really, if we had just done it between eight and five, we would have more freedom in the evenings to go to the gym, to have dinner together, to do, you know, other things. And kind of one thing I would add to that, too, is you'll hear a lot of people who are not in business together.
00:37:47
Speaker
or not in business together yet, say things like, isn't it just really good to go on a date night and just not talk about business? Would you recommend that you separate the business and you separate the other things in your life?
00:38:01
Speaker
And what I tell people is good luck. Yeah. I mean, because conceptually, you can do that. But practically, you just can't, right? You know, I mean, it's easy to say, Oh, this is this is home. And this is life stuff, you know, our business stuff rather, but on a practical basis. Don't talk about your baby. Don't talk about your kids for three hours. And I think that the thing is when you're especially I think creatives can really especially relate to this is we love what we do. We love our business.
00:38:26
Speaker
It gets us excited. We love talking about new ideas, new strategies, new things we want to implement. And so it would almost be like a punishment if you were like, OK, Amy and Jordan, I want you to go sit at a table across from each other. You're not allowed to talk about business at all. It would be kind of like torture for us. And not saying every one of our dates is a business meeting, by any means. But we've never really laid down a boundary of, oh, you can't talk about that right now because it's past 5 o'clock, if that makes sense.
00:38:56
Speaker
And I think we've been able to enjoy each other's company more because of that. With that said, we also had to recognize that sitting next to each other working at our laptops did not count as quality time. So just because we spend all day physically next to each other and we're working as coworkers and we're saying, hey, can you send me that? And hey, can you look at this? And we're working side by side all day. That's not the same as sitting across from each other intentionally looking into each other's eyes, you know, saying, hey,
00:39:26
Speaker
How are you? Because sometimes we can go hours and hours sitting next to each other without really seeing the other person. I'm not in a sad and dramatic way, just in a like get down to business kind of way. So we definitely make time for things outside of our business that like we love to go to Home Goods together. Like Home Goods dates are really fun.
00:39:45
Speaker
you know, just going out to eat or doing something outside of the house where the laptops are closed, the phones are put away and we're just spending time just being asked. I mean, there's a reason why, you know, like people in the armed forces are lifelong friends. There's reasons why sports teammates are lifelong friends. And the reason is because they are, you know, quote unquote, either in the literal or figurative trenches together, working together for long periods of time over an extended period of time.
00:40:13
Speaker
to solve problems where they have to rely on each other. And I think that's in that sense, it's been the best thing in the world for our marriage is doing this business together because it's given us something to work, to work on together and work toward together, you know, almost every minute of every day.
00:40:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that what you were saying about spending all that time together does not count as quality time. I think that was the biggest challenge for me and Krista. Because when I was at school, when I came home, I knew she wouldn't know about my day unless I communicated that to her. So it was very natural to talk about each other's day. But when we're working together all day, there was a period in time where we weren't really communicating well. And it's kind of not intuitive, right? You would think that if you're sitting right next to each other,
00:40:55
Speaker
it would be really easy to communicate how you're feeling. And so one thing that we had to start doing was starting each day by writing a note to each other. And it could be kind of anything, just whatever's on our mind, something that we're excited about or something that maybe has us down or stressed out or we're not looking forward to. And it's always very short, but it's allowed us to get back to start the day by saying, hey, this is how I'm feeling, this is what's up. And that's been a really valuable practice
00:41:24
Speaker
for us. But it's so interesting to hear that you guys say that too. I love that. We don't have time for anything else. Well, you know, it's funny, Chris is going to listen to this, and she's going to hear you talk about home good dates, you know, so I might, I don't know if that's going to make it to publish because I can't have her being like, well, Jordan takes her to home goods for date. Oh, shoot, I got to say that to Jordan's point of how when we first got started,
00:41:50
Speaker
we would work from eight to midnight. We've really tightened those hours and we've put a lot more routine in place in our life. And when you were saying that you start the day with notes, it just reminded me that one of the things that we love to do now to start our day is after we wake up, read the Bible, read a business book, then we go for a 30 minute walk around our neighborhood together. And we do that before we open our laptops, before the business day, quote unquote, our business hours officially start.
00:42:19
Speaker
And for both of us, that's one of our favorite parts of the entire day because it's 30 minutes uninterrupted where we can connect and talk about what we've been thinking about, what we've been reading. And that for us, I really feel like has become one of the staples that
00:42:35
Speaker
we would miss so much if we ever cut that out of our life. And I remember when we were teaching elementary school, you know, when you spend all day with nine and 10 year olds, you learned very quickly. I can't imagine. I taught high school. I couldn't even imagine elementary school kids. If a child is emotionally shut down, they do, they do not learn and they cannot learn. And so I think that we've kind of applied that a little bit to our marriage. We're checking in with each other to make sure the other person is emotionally doing
Navigating Business Challenges and Misconceptions
00:43:04
Speaker
okay.
00:43:04
Speaker
Um, at the start of the day sets us up that if something is wrong, we can solve it before we start working. Um, and one of the things our pastor said a number of years ago is he said, you know, men like husbands, you are the protector of your, of your, your protector. You are the protector of your wife's heart. And, and so a lot of times I ask Amy a simple question when we're out on the walk is I'll say, Hey, how's your heart today? And a lot of days she's like, it's good. I feel great. But if there's something going on, that question of how's your heart?
00:43:34
Speaker
It usually will open up a longer conversation or dialogue if there's something that we kind of need to hash through. And then one thing that just came to mind that I just wanted to mention that's kind of unrelated to that is Amy mentioned that now we have pretty regular work hours from like eight to five. There's two things that I would say about that. Number one is if you're in the position right now where you are in a day job that you desperately want to escape from and you are hurting, I remember what it was like to be in that lonely, desperate, frustrated, angry, I don't know that I'm ever going to get out of this place.
00:44:04
Speaker
guys, there is only one way to get out when you're backed into a corner, and that is to fight your way out. And for anyone who tells you, you know, oh, you know, yeah, you know, don't overdo it, you know, a couple hours every day, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just think that's trash. I think it's garbage. I think it's the advice of somebody who's never actually built a business. Yeah, hard are hard. And this running a business and building it from the ground up and building it to a point where you can quit a day job and replace a salary.
00:44:32
Speaker
and health insurance and retirement and all those things, you are going to have to fight and scrap and claw for a while. And it is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done and the most exciting and exhilarating and fulfilling thing you've ever done. I can tell you from being on the other side now, I would do it again and again and again and again for the last five years that we've had together running this business full time. And so if you're listening out there, what I want to say to you is you can do it.
00:45:01
Speaker
It's going to be harder than you ever thought. It's going to take a different direction, and you're going to have to go down different roads that you never thought you'd go down. But stay in the game. Keep working. Keep hustling. Stay after it, and don't ever let somebody tell you. I think when Amy talked about that little bit of unhealthy, I think that having perfect balance in your life every day is not possible. Having perfect balance in your life over the course of your life, that may be possible, but every season is going to be different.
00:45:31
Speaker
done everything that we did during our season of hustle in those, those two years from the spring of 11 to the spring of 13. If we hadn't given it everything we had in those two years, I don't think that we would have been able to go full time because it just requires that. And so I would just say to anybody, I just want to encourage you that if you're in that place, it's okay. Keep pushing, keep working because you eventually get to a place.
00:45:55
Speaker
where you can start to scale back the hours when you can start to have more regular business time. But there is a period or a season where you're just in the grind. We look at it's almost like our morning walks now are almost like the harvest of all of that hard work all that discipline all it's sewing all those seeds early on and planting and
00:46:13
Speaker
working more hours than we ever thought we could. It's like doing that for a certain amount of time. Now we get to harvest the incredible gift of just being able to get out in the fresh air every day and talk to each other.
00:46:26
Speaker
I think that's going to be so liberating for people to hear because I think there are some messages out there that it's going to be easy, that you're going to go full time and then you're going to have all this freedom of flexibility in your business. I think it's going to be so liberating for people to hear that.
00:46:44
Speaker
So now that you do have maybe a little bit more balance in your lives, you're not in that same season of hustle. I think you're in a different season hustle with a baby on the way, which is super exciting. But how do you structure your week? What does your week look like? What are some tips that you have for people on managing their time so that they make the most of the time they have together, the most of the time that they have devoted to their business and households? I think the first thing that I would say is that
00:47:13
Speaker
We look at our time and the energy that we put out during a week as similar to like an airplane. And so when you think about an airplane, an airplane uses the most gas or the most fuel on takeoff and on landing, right? And when it gets to the cruising altitude, that's when it's using the least amount of energy and getting the most bang for its buck. And so one of the mistakes that we used to make early on, once we had quit our jobs, once we had gone full time, we would be home together and we were just yes people. And so what it would look like is if somebody would text us and say, hey, you want to grab a cup of coffee?
00:47:44
Speaker
a Monday at 10 we said yes and then if somebody said hey on Tuesday can you do this client meeting at 6 30 at night yes and if Wednesday a wedding planner said hey can we grab brunch at 9 in the morning yes you know Thursday our family was having a family dinner yes you know Friday we would go to the dentist right or have some other type of appointment and what we realized if you just if you're counting along with me
00:48:08
Speaker
That was five things during a week where we had to leave the house. And so for those of you gentlemen who are listening, this probably doesn't apply to you. But if you are married, you will understand that when a woman leaves the house,
00:48:20
Speaker
It does not take five minutes. It's a process, right? You shower, you're doing your makeup, you're doing your hair, you're choosing an outfit, you're double checking your outfit, you're making sure that... And I appreciate that about Amy, by the way. I think it's wonderful that she cares about it, that we didn't care about their appearance. I'm grateful for that, right? That women care about their appearance. I think it's great.
00:48:40
Speaker
As a nice cover by the way, I like how you cover that up. He doesn't know what it's like to have to blow fire in here. No, that's fine. And I won't know what it's like to be in labor and I'm okay with that too. But the point being is that every time that Amy was going to get ready to leave the house, especially if we were meeting with a client or a wedding planner, it would take about an hour start to finish for her to get ready. And then a lot of times where we live in Phoenix, everything is 30 minutes. I don't know about where you guys live, but everything is 30
00:49:07
Speaker
And so if it was a 30 minute drive there and a 30 minute drive back, keep doing the math of me, that's two hours of getting ready and of driving. And we were doing that one time every day. And so that would be like 10 hours that we would be spending in a given week getting ready and driving places. And so what we realized is we can take those five events that are happening, one event on each day, and instead just be a little more strategic with our scheduling.
00:49:34
Speaker
Instead of having them like this on our calendar, stack them like this on a Friday. Then all of a sudden what that does is it gets rid of the driving and getting ready for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, which saved us eight hours every single week. So it was like we were getting an extra day per week back that we were just giving away.
Productivity and Time Management Techniques
00:49:53
Speaker
And so I think that would be one thing that I recommend for anybody listening is we just don't say yes all the time anymore. You know today happens to be a Thursday and we've got like four or five things stacked on our calendar and
00:50:06
Speaker
Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, we were at home pretty much all day working on big projects. And so that would be one thing. Today is considered what we call a stack day. So we had a meeting before this interview and we have two more meetings after this. And it allows us to really enjoy our stack days because we're able to see people we love. It's really nice and refreshing when you spend the rest of your week
00:50:29
Speaker
Um, you know, working at home together, but when we're working at home together, we can be completely intentional. And like Jordan said, when you're thinking about that airplane, we don't have to take off and land and take off and land. We take off once and we're able to cruise all day and it's at a cruising altitude. That's when we get the most done. And then kind of like looking out on your results, kind of how he would handle like, you know, this week that's coming up. But when you're thinking about how to kind of organize like business tasks, one of the things that we recommend is do the most important thing first.
00:50:57
Speaker
And so I think for a lot of us, and Amy and I are guilty of this too, it can be really tempting to roll out of bed, to check Instagram, to check your email, to respond to a friend's text, to do all that kind of stuff. But one of the things I would recommend is try to have a morning routine. So like Amy mentioned earlier, when we wake up in the morning, we usually read the Bible in the morning, we read 15 or 30 minutes of a business book, we'll go on a walk, we'll have breakfast, and then we usually start our workday somewhere between 9.30 and 10.
00:51:24
Speaker
But we do not start with email. We do not respond to email during the day. Usually we don't respond to people's texts during the day. We try not to leave the house during the day if we don't have to. And whatever the most important thing that we need to do that day, we do it first so that that way we don't start it at three o'clock in the afternoon because our work day ends at four. And so we want to make sure that we get that thing done first so that we can feel good, like we've got to win. And one of the things that we've gotten in the habit of doing is every week toward the end of the week, so like on Thursday or Friday, we'll look at the week ahead.
00:51:54
Speaker
and say, OK, for next week, if one of the things that we accomplish them this next week, we're going to feel so good about. And then we will literally on every day on our calendar, we will write down the thing that we want to get done that day in order for us to feel good. So, for example, like on a Monday, if we were in the process of building a website, it might say something like finish the about the copy for the about page, or it might say like update portfolio, whatever that one thing is or one or two things are.
00:52:23
Speaker
Write those down in advance so that way you're mentally, you know, Monday is update the portfolio day. And so that's something else I would recommend is just putting putting what you want to get done on a day and then doing that thing first. And the last thing is ever open the inbox. And I like how it's one thing.
00:52:40
Speaker
I like, I really, I really like how it's one thing because one thing that I used to do, um, I would procrastinate with tasks. You know, I had a bunch of, I loved having things crossed off the to-do list. So, you know, I would have like 20 little tasks, you know, Oh, I crossed it off. You know, so you look at my to-do list at the end of the day and be like, Davey, man, you got a ton done. But that one thing that, that really made a difference, you know, that one thing that really moved the needle, I'd basically just put that off.
00:53:06
Speaker
by doing all these made-up tasks. So I think that's super helpful just focusing on one thing. Amy, you're like me in that way because I'm the same way. And what happened was that to-do list made me feel good. And I think for a lot of creatives, we like to do things that make us feel good, but we don't always do things that are good for business or use it appropriately that move the needle forward. And so we would ask ourselves the question of like, what's the next thing that I can do in my business if it was a Friday? What's the next thing we can do that moves the needle forward?
00:53:35
Speaker
let's do that Monday. And then after you get that thing done, then what should we do Tuesday? Because in business, everything is kind of moving, moving parts all the time. So it's like, sometimes you can't do at, you can't do Y until you've done X. And so if you don't kind of have a vision for that on, on a weekly or, or a monthly basis, you kind of get into trouble. And then one last thing I mentioned is now in our, in our day, the way we structure it as we start, stop working at four, it's like a hard stop time. And we both go to like a, like a fitness class or like a gym exercise class.
00:54:04
Speaker
Um, at four 30 is our start time. So we have to be out of the house by four 15. And that also kind of creates an artificial deadline every single day of, okay, I've got to get everything done before four that I set out to do. And it keeps us focused because it's pretty easy to be focused from 10 in the morning until lunchtime. Yeah. It's really hard to be focused between like one and four because you kind of start drifting into the afternoon. And we found that that really helps us stay focused through the afternoon because we're going to be done at four and we don't want to work.
00:54:34
Speaker
So if you're creative with kids, maybe that's like the time that your kids come home from school. It's like three o'clock. My day is going to start at seven or eight and it's going to end at three because at three o'clock that's when we're going to shut it down.
00:54:48
Speaker
And finally, for us, like having a shutdown time, which is only something we've probably implemented in the last year or two, I would say, has allowed us to become so much more productive in the time that we do have because we're not just drifting along thinking, well, I have until midnight. So we'll just kind of keep, you know, slowly going from one thing to the next instead.
00:55:09
Speaker
because we have that urgency of like, okay, we have to leave for that class. There's money, you know, there's money down on that. We almost feel like we had to invest in a gym membership in order for us to have the urgency and the accountability to go. It's really made us more efficient in business.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's that's important too. I mean, just, you know, because you could just go for a run, you know, it doesn't require for a gym membership. But, you know, then it's easy to get into this. Well, I can go for a run 30 minutes from now, or I'll go for a run at six tonight or something like that. So I like how you build in that, that deadline for your day.
00:55:44
Speaker
When you're putting this together, so this will be our last question, because I know I've already taken up a ton of your time here, but when you're putting together your day, what did that look like for both of you to do that together? When you were creating these different structures that you have to keep you efficient, I imagine that it took a couple conversations based on past experience, but what did that look like for you too?
00:56:11
Speaker
Well, I think I don't remember who said it, but somebody said, you know, for in order for your goals to for you to achieve your goals, the first step is they have to be your goals. And so I think one of the things that we realize is for a little while in our marriage, we were kind of structuring our day or just doing things in general that we thought we were supposed to do instead of asking ourselves the question, what do we want to do and what works for us? And so I think that that's kind of the first step is, you know, don't just like wake up at like eight o'clock because we wake up at eight o'clock.
00:56:39
Speaker
and like read the Bible and a business book and go for a walk because that's what we do because you might have kids. And so that might mean that you don't get to do anything in the morning until you drop them off at school at night. And so it's going to look a little bit different for everybody. So the first thing I would say is make sure that it works for you and it's conducive for your life because I think everyone's day is going to look a little bit different. So that would kind of be like my first piece of advice. Yeah, I would say
00:57:03
Speaker
When it came to us like structuring our daily routine, this might sound nerdy, but we actually like pulled up a Word document and started to write out, had a conversation about
00:57:13
Speaker
What are our priorities? What are our values? How do we want a daily, a day-to-day life to look? We do goal setting at the beginning of every year. We've done it since even before we were in business and it's so fun to look back at some of our old goals. I just found one the other day from 2011 and the goals were like, get a business email address.
00:57:38
Speaker
The goals were incredible. I loved them reading back because you almost don't realize how far you've come when you set those goals and write them down, but being able to look back was key. It was so fun. So we'd actually open up a Word document and actually write out, it sounds kind of nerdy and regimented, write out a schedule of how we want the day to run.
00:58:00
Speaker
And that really helped. And do we stick to it perfectly every day? No. I'm going to be completely honest, we don't. But having that in our minds has really helped shape what each day is going to look like. So we realized for us, we really believe, I mean, maybe because we're elementary school teachers, readers are leaders. We always used to save our kids. So we really wanted to put that into our day. And we realized if we didn't structure reading into the morning,
00:58:27
Speaker
It just probably wasn't going to happen because other things would feel more urgent. And there's such a difference between the urgent and the important. And reading is really important, but it's almost never urgent. So we were going to have to put in the less urgent, but very important things into our schedule or they weren't going to happen. So I think we had a lot of conversation about, hey, what's going to trigger naturally? Do we really have to put like, um, you know,
00:58:51
Speaker
comment on Instagram into our schedule, no, because it's just gonna happen naturally. But what we realized is if we learn intentional about things like reading a business book, then it probably wouldn't happen because something else would come up that would feel more urgent at the time. Right, and I think what Amy mentioned, we like to kind of structure a lot of our goals around natural triggers. And so I think one of the things that we just decided for this year, one of our goals was to listen to one business audiobook together every month.
00:59:19
Speaker
And we were like, okay, how are we going to make this happen? Okay, perfect. Let's download it. We'll pick one every month and we will listen to it in the car when the drive is longer than 30 minutes. And so that way we don't have to think to ourselves that we're not necessarily thinking like the goal is like, you know, you know, we have to read at a certain time every day, just know that we kind of drive a certain amount of time every month. And if every time we get in the car, Oh, we're going to Jordan's parents' house, it's 40 minutes away. As soon as we get in the car, we put the audio book on and kind of a natural trigger. Whereas if we're going five minutes down the road, we don't do that.
00:59:50
Speaker
And so I would also like when you're structuring your day, look for things that are more natural. Like you may be a parent who has kids that are up early and it's just not in the cards for you to read in the morning. But maybe when you pick them up from school every day, you have 15 minutes in the pickup line where you're just waiting for them to be dismissed. And so you say for 15 minutes every day in the pickup line, instead of listening to the radio or instead of texting with friends or scrolling Instagram,
01:00:12
Speaker
I'm going to listen to a business book for 15 minutes and get my 15 minutes of knowledge in for the day, so to speak. I think that that's one of the best ways to structure your day is to look at what's realistic for you and for your life. We have a lot of favorite books. Some of my favorites have come from recommendations from you guys, so keep them coming. Likewise.
01:00:34
Speaker
Another one of our favorites is 168 Hours by Laura VanderKam. Everyone has to read this book because there's so much that I cannot unpack right now because we're limited for time. But one of the great takeaways from that book is she talks about looking at your life doing things in alignment. So she said multitasking can be a myth, but alignment is the idea like Jordan was talking about where if you already know built into your day that you're going to be stuck in the pickup line at school,
01:01:04
Speaker
you can find something valuable to do at that time where you're gonna be in alignment. So one of the things, just a relational goal for us, we're trying to be really intentional about our relationships, and Jordan is also, I mean both of us, but I'm very pregnant, so I'm doing well.
01:01:21
Speaker
But Jordan has been planning different times when he's hiking, and instead of hiking alone, he invites someone with him, and he's able to build a relationship and go on a hike at the same time. And just like to clarify, like I'm not like an outdoorsman, this is not like a hike hike. This is like a mountain that's a mile from our house because we live in the desert in Arizona, and it's like a steady incline. But what I realized was it was about an hour, 15 minute hike, and it's about four and a half miles.
01:01:49
Speaker
Start to finish and I had gone on a few hikes by myself and I was like wait a second Like if I'm gonna be hiking hiking doesn't require any brain power
01:01:57
Speaker
So what I can do is I can get my body exercise and I can, I can fulfill a relational goal by inviting a different buddy to come hike with me every single week and kind of fills that gap. And so when you're thinking about doing things in alignment, it's something that you're, that you can do on autopilot physically or mentally where you have, but the other thing you have to think of. So like driving, I don't have to think about it. It's second nature. I can drive and listen to an audio book at the same time.
01:02:21
Speaker
it's more efficient than if Amy and I said, okay, we're going to sit at the kitchen table and listen to an audio book because then we're just getting the audio book, but we're not getting the drive. And so anytime that you can double up on things, you're getting more bang for your buck in terms of time. And especially things that are, that you have to do mandatory things like picking your kids up from school. And the last thing I would just mention to you, Jones, is for anybody listening in terms of like structuring your day, we don't leave the house for one thing.
01:02:47
Speaker
And so one of the
Final Tips: Business and Personal Growth
01:02:48
Speaker
biggest mistakes you made early in our marriage was I was the doer, the list guy. So like sitting at home and I was like, I would look at him and say, we need stamps. I'm going to go get stamps. I would go and I would go get, I would drive 15 minutes to the post office, wait in line for seven hours, um, offices. That's that's ours. And then I would get back with the stamps.
01:03:07
Speaker
And it was such a waste of time. But you got to cross one thing off your to-do list. It felt good. It felt so good. And I thought, man, I'm really doing something. I'm accomplishing something. But in reality, what we do now is we try to stack our errands in addition to stacking our days. And so I realized that Costco is down the street from my gym. And so I hit Costco, and I get groceries, and I get gas, and I do stamps. And I do it all on the way home from the gym.
01:03:36
Speaker
because it's literally on the way home. And so it saves so much time because I'm going to Costco at six o'clock at night when nobody else is there. The line is shorter. And so I think that anybody that's listening right now, I would really encourage you this next upcoming week to really take an inventory of your life and the way you're spending your time and just ask yourself, is there a better, faster way that I could do this? Because you might be surprised. You might get back 10 or 15 hours per week
01:04:16
Speaker
Is that, is that the best use of your time to drive 15 minutes to the grocery store, spend 15 minutes there and drive 15 minutes back? Or should you get it the next time you're at the grocery store? And so we're like, Hey, we have a doctor's appointment on Friday. We're going to go right past the store that we need to get everything else that we need. The demos is don't go to the store more than once a week. It's like, if we don't have it, we don't get enough food the first time. We just eat what's there.
01:04:22
Speaker
of time.
01:04:41
Speaker
And so I would just encourage everyone trying to really be careful about how you manage your time because if you can cut your living expenses way down and you can cut your time to the, cut all the waste out of your time, now you're finally in a position to go, okay, how much money do I need to go full time in this business and run this business? And you'll have a realistic idea of if you can do it. And Davey, this is the secret to home goods dates. Okay. Okay. I'm listening.
01:05:07
Speaker
at night. So you can tell Krista this is the secret is when you go listen man when you go on home good home goods dates things are good at home. But for all the guys that are listening just remember when she says home goods I want you to think about
01:05:23
Speaker
good at him. Noted, noted. I'll make sure that specifically makes it into the show notes. There are a few things that I just want to, that I love about all of what you said. The first thing is write it down. While that might sound nerdy or you might be thinking to yourself, do I really have to do that?
01:05:43
Speaker
There is power in writing stuff down. Michael Hyatt is a big believer in this, and I forget what the statistic is, but when you write something down, the likelihood that you do it is far, far greater. If you're one of those people that feels like you're not reaching your goals, I think that writing it down can make a huge difference. How long does that take? If you're thinking about it anyways, it takes next to no time. The second thing, and maybe you guys have something more to say about this,
01:06:11
Speaker
But I love how your day is in rhythm with one another. And I think that was one of the things that Krista and I had to sort out when I came on is I'm a little bit more of a night person. I wouldn't consider myself an owl. But I'm not as much of a morning person as Krista. And so it took a little bit of adjustment, getting in the same rhythm, waking up around the same time. We don't do our quiet times together, but we do them at the same time. And I think that made a huge difference in our day.
01:06:40
Speaker
And so what I started going to bed an hour, hour and a half earlier than I usually would. But I know it made a huge difference in our business to be kind of, you know, just have the same daily rhythm. And I don't know if you guys find the same thing or if you naturally had maybe the same daily rhythm.
01:06:57
Speaker
No, I think that we, that I'm a little bit more of a night owl. Amy has an easier time falling asleep. I have a more difficult time falling asleep. And so I think it was, it was a little bit of a compromise, kind of like what we kind of did, what you guys did, where it was like, well, I think I can probably train myself and discipline myself to get to get to bed before midnight or, you know, get to bed before 11, um, versus staying up until one or two, which is probably my, would probably be my habit if Amy and I weren't married. Um, and Amy, somebody who would probably like gladly head into bed at nine.
01:07:24
Speaker
earlier and so I think that we kind of just found a compromise somewhere in there where you know now now we do wake up at the same time and all that kind of stuff but even in your example like I don't think anybody who's listening if one's a night owl and one's up super early I don't think you have to be in a hundred percent alignment on your schedules sure but maybe it's just the difference of like I'm gonna go to bed a little earlier you know and she's gonna maybe wake up a little bit later and maybe you have that time together in the middle of the afternoon
01:07:46
Speaker
I think that's one of the blessings and benefits of working from home as a husband and wife team is that you get to craft your own schedule and make your own schedule. I think it's totally okay to structure things that way, but again, you have to find out what works for you. Not like in a new age, you find out what works for you. If it's something stupid that doesn't work, it works for you. Whenever I hear people say, if it works for you, I'm like,
01:08:08
Speaker
Oh, what does that even mean? But does it work? Because it might work for you, but does it work? I think the big thing is to get together, to talk about it, and to write it down. I'm a big believer in writing it down. And there's so much wisdom in what you guys have been saying. And I wish, of all the topics, really, everything that I've learned in business, I wish that I learned this kind of stuff earlier. I think back, if I knew this at 21,
01:08:36
Speaker
you know, how much more productive could my 20s have looked? And so I think that if you if you can get really disciplined in this realm of things, it's going to pay off big time in business and all the other aspects of your life. So but guys, oh, go ahead. I said agreed. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure that people are going to want more. So where can people find more? Like where can people follow along?
01:09:05
Speaker
The best thing would be our website, amianjordan.com. If you go to amianjordan.com, you can sign up for our free business and photography coaching called the Monday Minute. And every Monday morning, we will send you an email that will either be helpful business advice, kind of similar to what you just heard today, or helpful photography advice. And specifically, if you're a photographer, we would encourage you to go ahead and sign up for that. It's 100% free.
01:09:31
Speaker
And then also, we have a free online class that's called Shoot Better and Edit Faster. And if you go to avianjordan.com, it's a free one-hour class. You can sign up for that. And it's three of our top tips or secrets for shooting better and getting images easier to edit on the back end.
01:09:49
Speaker
And I would highly recommend doing everything that they just said. We could have taken this entire interview and just talked about photography. You guys are super talented. I am really glad, though, that you guys were willing to talk about this because, again, I know for Chris and I, you guys are examples for us. And like I said at the beginning of the interview, just people that challenge us to find that flourishing in our own marriage. So thank you so much. And we're so excited to meet the little one, which is maybe even by the time this interview is published.
01:10:19
Speaker
So if you're listening to this
01:10:25
Speaker
We are sleep deprived. Yeah, there's a good chance. And we are not on a schedule. And we're probably not taking a morning walk anymore. Trying to feed a super new world alliance. If you're listening to this, we are doing nothing that we just talked about. And so that's the whole different seasons have different types of balance. Yeah, but you guys, I mean, you guys are intentional enough where I know that it's going to take no time until it might not be the routine you're in now, but it's going to take no time for you guys to get into another routine that is just as good but different.
01:10:56
Speaker
Well, thank you guys. Thank you. Thanks so much for having us. We always love getting to chat with you, but I hope this was so fun. So thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands at Books show. To stay up to date with your latest episodes, make sure you hit the subscribe button.