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Narrative vs Gameplay
280 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam take on the age of question of what is more important in a video game: narrative or gameplay? Should more games be story centric or should they rely on better gameplay?
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Transcript
Banter and Theories with Adam
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chat Tsunami. I'm Sad Tsunami and of course, joining me today for this... Well, I'll let you say the catchphrase of the day. It is my very good friend Adam. Adam, welcome to this episode. Hello, hello. Good to be back. I mean, you wanted me to bring it out already. My God, bring the big guns out. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that and we just received a message of someone else bringing it up.
00:00:47
Speaker
to steal our thunder now we gotta get out quick exactly no adam came up with it first guys okay adam definitely came up with it first i came up with the term with the theory with everything written behind it it's all my work i know i've i've seen the whiteboard you've got in your house you know just all the pins in it all the ribbons coming out you know it's it's a work of art that's all i'm saying oh thank you thank you i'm maybe manic but i'm meticulously manic
00:01:14
Speaker
Exactly, and that's all we ask for on this channel.
Evolution of Video Games: From Atari to Twitch
00:01:17
Speaker
So yeah, as you can see today we're going to be talking about quite honestly an interesting dynamic. When video games came out, just to kind of give a quick intro before you're in a way dive into the meat of this topic, gaming has always been a changing landscape, hasn't it? Oh yeah. It's like I went to say something and then Atari got to me there.
00:01:42
Speaker
I had a tarry flashback. It happens to the rest of us. So let me take a deep breath.
00:01:48
Speaker
Okay, Atari be gone. Right, so, nah jokes aside. Gaming always used to be this, like I think I've actually brought this joke up with you before but I always remember there was this like, it was like this cartoon that I keep seeing where, it's a very boomer comic but it's like a comic where it's a mum and dad looking at their son and seeing them play the, I think it was the NES at the time?
00:02:12
Speaker
and in the head they've got like images of like ads in the newspaper and it's things like wanted professional Nintendo player and they're like oh he's gonna be you know famous and everything and like jokes aside like initially obviously when that was written that comic everyone must have thought yeah sure are we ever gonna get you know
00:02:33
Speaker
a professional Nintendo player, and then years later look at Twitch, look at esports teams, you know. It's like a dina- or not a dynamic, but it's a landscape that is always changing. Like, do you agree with that? Oh, definitely. I mean, I think...
00:02:49
Speaker
with it being sort of technologically based as well, I think it's inevitable, you know, things are going to improve, things are going to develop and gaming beyond the forefront of that is just going to be tossed around by these different waves. And no more is that apparent, though, than with the idea of basically the way that games are developed nowadays, because back in the day, and maybe this is just me being very
00:03:13
Speaker
generalizing but back when they started they were very oriented on their core purpose of course being focused on gameplay and being like a fun you know having a fun time but then all of a sudden there was this shift over the years into making it into I suppose more of like a cinematic experience
00:03:33
Speaker
It's not something that... I don't think it really happened overnight. I think it was like a gradual
Narrative vs Gameplay: An Introduction
00:03:38
Speaker
change. And it is something that, yeah, we are, of course, going to be diving into. That, of course, being really not so much an us versus them kind of thing of what is better, narrative or gameplay, but more just comparing the two, seeing their pros and cons. And yeah, I'm going to throw it back to you. I'm going to put the spotlight on you for this episode because I know...
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah because I know you're very... you did a lot of research for this episode and yeah I was shocked when you came up with what was it again? Let me clear my throat. Of course. A key thing that we will be discussing at some point. Get ready, get... be on the lookout for this when we discuss it during this episode.
Exploring Ludo Narrative Dissonance
00:04:21
Speaker
Ludo narrative dissonance. Oh boy! What is ludo narrative dissonance?
00:04:27
Speaker
I'm glad you asked. That's it, Avi. Well, let me tell you. So, ludonarrative dissonance. It was a big thing. It was kind of coined, from what I understand, in the late 2000s. And it was a very popular term from that period up until the kind of mid 2010s. It's still used now, but basically the idea is it refers to the conflict between the story as told by a video game's narrative and the story as told by the video game's gameplay.
00:04:53
Speaker
So the argument is that each of these elements can be telling two separate stories that don't mesh and actually conflict and can actually harm a game's effectiveness is the kind of basic premise of it. And I think if you want the opposite, it's like ludonarrative consonants, I think, is the one where they mesh together well. So that's something that we'll definitely, you know, because I know everybody comes here for the
00:05:16
Speaker
for the theory and the hard ideas. But we will definitely be diving into a bit of that later on. Actually reminds me, I think it was you a couple of episodes ago. I can't remember exactly. It might have been the shooter game episode where we were talking about the transition from cutscenes to the actual gameplay.
00:05:37
Speaker
And it's like, you know how in the gameplay you're like a badass super soldier, you can take any hits and everything, but in the cutscenes you're like a wee fragile sponge. Oh yeah, exactly. That's a prime example of it, that is a prime example of ludonarrative dissonance right there.
00:05:54
Speaker
I mean, whether it be like Call of Duty or especially, I think I was Uncharted, you brought up. Mm-hmm. And we will be coming back to Uncharted because it is a prime offender. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And let's not forget Bioshock as well.
00:06:09
Speaker
No, that's the one that started it all. We'll go into that as well. Promise everybody all the exciting things to look forward to. Oh, I cannot wait for this episode. I am so hyped. No, I was so excited when you suggested it. So yeah, well, we'll start with narrative. Let's do that. So yeah, I said, well, before we kind of get into looking at them together, let's look at them separately. So starting with narrative.
The Rise of Narrative-Driven Games in the 90s
00:06:34
Speaker
So as you were saying there, it wasn't narrative
00:06:37
Speaker
wasn't a key ingredient, I would say, of video games early on. I know there is some, you could argue, some text-based, you know, text-based adventures and maybe some early RPGs kind of relied on narrative, but for the most part it wasn't something as, you know, file sizes were small and you didn't really have the opportunity. You know, look at something like Doom, you know, where you get like
00:06:56
Speaker
three or four paragraphs of story. The whole course of it, you know, that was very much built on its on its gameplay. But I think certainly if you look at it during the late 90s, as systems got more powerful, and I think especially once we got into kind of 3D gaming, so once you got your your original PlayStation and your Nintendo 64, there really did seem to be a kind of rise of narrative driven games.
00:07:18
Speaker
And I think particularly if you look at 1998, when you get titles like Half-Life, Ocarina, Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time, and Metal Gear Solid. And we can kind of like, I think now it's kind of a thing we complain about video games being like movies. But back then, I think one of the great like, one of the reasons that everybody was so loved something like Metal Gear Solid was that they're like, oh my god, this is like a film.
00:07:39
Speaker
You know, that was the gold standard for what a video game could become. I don't know if you agree or disagree, but I kind of feel that was that late 90s was that time where narrative started to really kind of gain momentum and it was something that became something of more importance. Well, absolutely. I mean, if you look at the arcade games, like.
00:07:54
Speaker
I suppose it's a different environment because in arcades you don't really want to be playing an 80-hour epic story. You just want to go in, put your coins in, start shooting whatever's on the screen or drive or whatever. You want that kind of quick fix.
00:08:13
Speaker
yeah you don't you don't want to be like playing like the equivalent of the last of us well maybe you do like i don't know if there's like a niche out there that kind of people got a lot of money we got a lot of money for that though because that could be it some of those old arcade games that could be an expensive one to be sitting down to play
00:08:28
Speaker
Do you know what they could do? They could like lay it out as if it's like you're the casinos in Las Vegas where it's like they block out the windows and everything and they take off the clocks. Just that but with video games. It's like how long have you been away for? You've been gone for three years. What? Yeah but he completed The Last of Us and Persona so that's the main takeaway from that.
00:08:54
Speaker
but I do agree though because I always remember growing up like in the 90s of course and early 2000s I'm old well sorry we are old but I always remember like seeing games like let's roll it back like Mario and Sonic and everything you know the ones with the Genesis for the NES you know those kind of games they had like a loose story I think this is when it started to develop
00:09:21
Speaker
slowly but they obviously they didn't have the like whether they were willing or not because they always had like the thick pamphlets or not pamphlets but like the manuals that told the story you know that way like same with Mega Man as well it's like you know the evil doctor you know insert whatever 90s game you want here for an evil doctor but evil doctor or Bowser
Game Narratives: From Classics to Modern Masterpieces
00:09:44
Speaker
like whatever like it's taking over and then you would actually play the game
00:09:50
Speaker
It was interesting in a way that it just threw you into it. But you're completely right, as soon as we got to the N64, the PlayStation 1, we got more cutscenes and things. I mean, look at Banjo-Kazooie and of course Sonic is another great example. A lot of platformers, a lot of shooters became a lot more story-oriented. Oh yeah.
00:10:18
Speaker
whether or not they were like Shakespeare or, as I like to say, Citizen Kane. You know, like, whether or not they were the best stories. There were still stories there, and there was like a kind of effort to develop more into that. So yeah, sorry. That was a long way of me saying I completely agree there. That that's... No, no, no, it's important. Yeah, it's definitely the time it started to develop.
00:10:44
Speaker
Definitely. And I feel as well, especially when we got into HD gaming, I think that trend just continued. And you might even argue kind of multiplied, especially I was just, I actually just fired up kind of Metacritic's like best games of all time. Let's just to see what was, what was on there to see like if there was a dominant kind of, if it was more narrative games. So like the top rated game, according to Metacritic is the Ocarina, Ocarina of Time sitting at 99 out of a hundred.
00:11:08
Speaker
You've also got in that top 10 Grand Theft Auto 4, which was kind of marked a departure from the Grand Theft Auto series in that they really tried to put kind of like, you know, a mature and kind of complex narratives, kind of put that at the core, rather than having you kind of a narcic sandbox. We've also got Red Dead Redemption 2's in there, again, very heavily story focused. Grand Theft Auto 5 as well, which again, did put a lot of focus on its story. You might argue again, it went a bit more back to that kind of anarchic gameplay.
00:11:35
Speaker
But there certainly are some. It's not actually as dominant as I would have thought. Because in my mind, I always feel like if people are going to make best games of all time, for me, it's usually a lot of narrative games. They get near the top. You know, things like The Last of Us is usually one you think of. I'm blanking on other ones. But yeah, things like that. Do you think now in the kind of gaming industry and age we live in, do you think narrative-driven games are still like preeminent ones? Do you think they're like the kind of big releases that we tend to see? Oh, yeah, I would say so.
00:12:05
Speaker
I mean, look at things like Assassin's Creed Valhalla, God of War, which technically I know the new one's not out, but that seemed to go more in a story direction. There's definitely a lot of games, like even Red Dead Redemption 2, although that game is technically several years old, people are still coming back to it. Same with Grand Theft Auto, but that's another story.
00:12:30
Speaker
yeah like even with um like last year with The Last of Us 2 that was like whatever you think of it because I know it was quite a controversial release but whether you hate it or not it was still a very heavy narrative game. A lot of the gameplay choices seem to purposely show a lot of narrative decisions like it wasn't just oh we want this because it's fun it's like we want this because we want you to feel bad.
00:12:57
Speaker
Oh no. Oh no, please. Please don't. Please don't. But I would say that it's still prevalent nowadays. Like, especially for hard hitters. Yeah, and no one will come to it later, probably, like, with the gameplay discussion. There are certain genres that I think do the opposite. Like, they're very gameplay focused and they try to tag along a story in the background. Like, one of the examples off the top of my head is Spartan Ops and Halo 4.
00:13:26
Speaker
I think I've ranted about this before, both in our shoot-a-game discussion and our Halo retrospective episodes, but basically, Spartan Ops was a thing that I don't know if they fixed it in the, like, really solid, but basically it was like a side mission that you could do online, where it was like a completely, like, new campaign that you had to do with either your friends or strangers, but they kept rolling over the missions and... Oh, yeah.
00:13:54
Speaker
It was very loosely tied together. It just wasn't great. It wasn't great for the medium that was in, essentially. If it was its own thing that you could play through separately, which I think probably you can do now, but at the time it was like it did not work. That and it was boring, but that's another topic. But mainly it was because of that, just the fact that, yeah, just they tried to tag along a story that just didn't work.
Narrative-Heavy Games: Pros and Cons
00:14:23
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:14:23
Speaker
yeah no it's a fair point like it's a really good one um so here's a here's a question for you does it would a narrative or does has a narrative ever kept you playing a game so like i like i really as a game had a really strong story but perhaps not been the best to play but have you just kept going with it because you're like i really want to see what happens
00:14:42
Speaker
Maybe Bioshock Infinite is like the one off the top of my head. Another one, and again we've done an episode in both of these games I'm about to talk about, Bioshock Infinite definitely was not a big fan of the gameplay. It really wore me down, but I loved the story. I thought the story was fantastic. The other one being of course Deadly Premonition. That's what I was thinking of as well.
00:15:05
Speaker
Deadly Premonition in a fundamental level should not be.
00:15:11
Speaker
as cohesive as it is. It is held together by tape and prayer. That's essentially it. It's held together by tape and prayer. But at the same time, honestly, I think it's maybe because I played it through with you and because it was like that shared experience, it was like, I know what you did last summer, but instead of like a dead fisherman, it's like a coffee. It's sweary.
00:15:38
Speaker
we we don't talk about the summer of her again. But it's true though, it's like we played through it. We absolutely loved it. I really enjoyed the game and as I said the gameplay was terrible but I needed to know the story. I needed to know who the raincoat killer was. I needed to know like how it was gonna end. Like I did not look up spoilers for that can I just say.
00:16:07
Speaker
No, me neither. I avoided them at all costs, and I'm glad I did, because it made the ending that much more worthwhile. So yeah, those are the two games I can think of. Going back to you, what games would you say? I mean, those are the exact two games that came to my mind.
00:16:26
Speaker
and i think is and i'm trying to another one i think when i first played obviously we've been playing through heavy rain again chilli for tea posing check it out it's nearing it's nearing the climax and it's just each episode is just getting better my humble opinion um but i when i first played heavy rain a few years back i think i had that similar experience in the and i think david cage will will i think recur again
00:16:49
Speaker
David Cage Games, Heavy Rain, Detroit, Become Human, Beyond Two Souls, things like that. The gameplay is worth this nicely. The gameplay is very basic. They are not like deep gameplay experiences, but I think they are maybe the example of a narrative-driven game, narrative-driven experience. And I was really intrigued to keep playing through Heavy Rain.
00:17:14
Speaker
and even despite the fact that the gameplay wasn't really wasn't really it was challenging but not in the way of like oh I need to get good at this it was just like oh it keeps throwing button prompts at me out of nowhere so that's the only other one that I could think of but I think deadly premonition was the one that came straight to my mind and I was like yeah I don't care that we had to follow a dog for for 30 minutes it just had to find out what happened in that in that
00:17:38
Speaker
I guess that leads on to another question. We can maybe talk a bit more about David Cage here actually, but can a good story in a video game stand by itself with only minimal gameplay in your opinion? Or do you think you want at least some kind of a level of deep gameplay?
00:17:55
Speaker
That's a good question. I don't know like at the time and again as you were saying we've been playing through the T-posing series and we've been playing through Heavy Rain again. At the time I really enjoyed it. Like going back you can obviously pick out the floors and things. I think to an extent there has to be something to do if you know what I mean. Even if it's just a made-up job like Press A to not die
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah, there has to be at least something there like it doesn't make a game perfect but it's like I'm thinking of other games like derestor and I Was severely bored with that. Maybe I just need to go back again because I did play it when I was younger So well I say play and the very lowest term possible. It's not really it's a walking sim and I don't mean that as an insult as a literal walking sim so I
00:18:49
Speaker
It literally is, it's a definition of a whole concealer. And it looks beautiful when everything don't get me wrong, but just, yeah, there's nothing going on. Same with Stanley Parable, like, that is a good enough game, or good enough experience to begin with, but as soon as you get to the end it's just, there's nothing going. Like, there's not really any replayability, because you know what's gonna happen if you go through
00:19:13
Speaker
or X or Y. If you exhaust everything it's just a bit tedious you know. I think if they are going for that there has to be some kind of replayability or like a hook to bring people back to experience it again. Whether it's just the fact that the story's fantastic and it's like a good book you know you want to return to it.
00:19:34
Speaker
you want to experience it for the first time again or because that's one of the things without any spoilers that's one of the things that puts me off heavy rain like going back to play it because unfortunately although it like it boasts about saying oh your choice matters and people can die that is true but the ending or the outcome will always be the same of who the killer is and if you survive you know like
00:19:58
Speaker
the endings will differ but as I said the killer which is the main focal point you know of like a crime drama his identity will always be the same and it's like why well not why but just you know they don't try to vary it up or anything um they they really didn't try anything clever with that sort of thing obviously when you play it the first time you're like no can't believe it but after that you're like oh yeah and I know that person's the killer no this is going
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, and you're playing through the game like seeing them. It's a bit like when you play Call of Duty, you know exactly the one I'm talking about, where it's like a particular character betrays you and throughout the game like, you're just like, oh yeah, he's just so-and-so, yay, hey there. And then when he actually betrays you and you have to play through the game again, you're like, oh, you bastard, I know what you're gonna do. Oh, and you're, oh, I'm looking at you. I know, I want to shoot you so bad.
00:20:57
Speaker
you're lucky i can't but yeah i mean i think like going on the david cage train uh choo choo sorry um detroit definitely i feel as if that was a little bit better in the sense that like in the sense that there was like different outcomes there wasn't like a set thing like you can either choose to free the androids or kill them all you know
00:21:21
Speaker
Starship for first style, you know, it's like you can either choose to be good, bad. Beyond Two Souls was awful. I'm sorry, I'm gonna throw that in right now. There is barely any replayability to that game. I feel as if that's like an example of him doing it wrong. There's a lot in the game that, although you can fail, the story just keeps going, if you know what I mean? Like, basically spoilers. You can't really die in the game up until the end. Well, why bother, you know?
00:21:51
Speaker
yeah why bother playing a game that you just because it actually reminds me of something you said i think it was you and craig craig from the beer and chill podcast check out great podcast but yes um i think was it you two who were playing resident evil together
00:22:06
Speaker
the sixth one yeah we we played we played yeah and yeah you were saying it was either you or Craig saying about the quick time events or not if you just put down the controller the game just doesn't do anything like it expects you to press the buttons but it doesn't do anything to like punish you it doesn't do anything to spurt the game on it just sits there it's literally press A to keep playing the game yeah
00:22:30
Speaker
I was actually watching a zero punctuation review of, I think it was either Heavy Rain or Detroit but it was basically he summed it up as it's like a film critic you know going to the cinema being given a controller to press every two seconds to pause and unpause the film and then asking things like what is this weird controller in my hands? Why is this film six hours long?
00:22:57
Speaker
And again, yeah, that is a long way to say it, but I do think there has to be some end point. It's the same with any narrative. If it goes on too long, you're going to lose people unless you put something interesting in between. And I think that is something that some narratives have to support. They have to have some kind of twist in the gameplay, which I think
00:23:19
Speaker
is the key difference between the narrative in say a film versus you know a narrative in a game because a game like at its core jumping ahead a bit but a game at its core has to have something to not make the player feel like a third wheel. That's the interactive to an extent at least.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, like there has to be some minimal kind, which I do think Detroit, Heavy Rain, Uncharted, you know, like those kind of games, like they do technically have that, but yeah, it's... there has to be some kind of support. It's almost like a bridge without the beams underneath. Yeah. I mean it could technically, it could just be a plank of wood holding it up, like Beyond Two Souls where it's just David Page holding up the bridge of Elliot Page, you know? Like Matt was...
00:24:07
Speaker
whole new world. Of course, what is his head the world? That was an E. Yeah, for legal reasons that was an ego joke. Just wanted to point that out. But yeah, what would you say? Like, flipping it back to you. I think you're right. I think the D-R-Ester example you used was perfect. I had a very similar experience with you playing that.
Prioritizing Narrative Over Gameplay: Success Stories?
00:24:29
Speaker
I was like, okay, it looks nice.
00:24:31
Speaker
but i'm like it literally does just i'm like this is just a minimal and like i need something more to it i like my favorite game you probably know this i don't kind of i've ever mentioned this on on the podcast but my favorite game of all time is telltales the walking dead the first season first season that is the game that like and i love it so much because i had such a group like strong emotional reactions when i was playing it and that's why like it's it's my favorite game because i just remember how it was to play it that has
00:24:58
Speaker
It has more gameplay than the rest, but it's not a huge amount of gameplay. It's still quite limited. It's basically something down to you moving your character around, picking things up, talking to people, the dialogue choices, and then you get some action scenes, but it is still a limited gameplay thing. For me, that was all that needed because it wasn't about the gameplay of that game. It was about the story and the connections and the relationships I was building with people.
00:25:23
Speaker
the other characters, what I was making the main character do and everything like that. That was the real hook for me. So I do think for me personally, it can. And I also really, really love the game, What Remains of Edith Finch, which is a walking simulator as well. There's more to do in it than something like Dear Esther.
00:25:42
Speaker
But again, the gameplay is fairly limited, but I just love the story so much and everything, and just exploring that, getting to explore that kind of world, you need to know those characters. So for me personally, I do think a strong story can stand by itself with minimal gameplay.
00:25:57
Speaker
But that might just be me. Like I can totally understand how somebody could reject that notion. Like I'm playing a game, as you say, like I'm playing a game, I want it to be interactive and I want to, you know, to be able to like do more in it. You know, so I can totally see that argument. I think it does come down to a kind of subjective. It is very subjective in that way. But that's just, again, again, my sense on it. Again, I said other opinions are available. No, but it's a good point, though, because if a game has like a strong narrative, like I've seen a lot of games like that.
00:26:27
Speaker
I'm blanking on the name. There was one game I saw a while ago, someone stream and he plays like a cat, I think. Oh, it's a stray or something? No, oh no, no, it's not that one. Like further back, it's like an indie game. You play as a cat and you're like an anthropomorphic cat returning to like a hometown and everything. Oh, is it Night in the Woods?
00:26:49
Speaker
That's the one. Thank you. That's the one. And that seems like, I mean, there's a lot of minigames and things like that. That seems very much a kind of choose your own adventure book where you've got dialogue options and not really much. I mean, there is a rhythm like games and things like that. You know, there's like small minigames.
00:27:07
Speaker
But at the end of the day, though, it's more focused on, you know, it's more focused on the story and the characters and things, because that's the thing. If you are going to have a narrative driven game, you've got to have a good narrative. And I know that sounds like bare basic. That's like, you know.
00:27:24
Speaker
Satsanami says have a good narrative you know also books have paper but you know it's like you have to have that to support what's going on you know you can't just have like a half-assed thing about man goes to one side of the aisle and to the other and finds a rock the rock is weird shaped end oh no sorry fin because that's that's that's the way we end these games not with English but with the French but David Cage aside
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It has to be strong. It definitely has to be very, very strong. Like what remains of Edith Finch? I've got that in my backlog and I'm really excited to play it. Same with Journey. Apparently Journey is like... To give a good example. Yeah, that's one that Craig
00:28:10
Speaker
keeps telling me to play. It's like a four-hour game and has exact words to me where something along the lines of like just go into a dark room for four hours, just turn your phone off, play the game, you know, experience it. It's just fantastic. It's one of the best games I've ever played and I'm like wow that's indeed high praise but you know it's true though. It's like one of these because sometimes you do get
00:28:34
Speaker
just so enthralled with a story and think oh god what's gonna happen next and oh is this gonna happen I mean I think technically the last time I felt like that was with Detroit when I played it and obviously that game has its fair share of problems which is
00:28:49
Speaker
definitely something we will be broaching in the future in episode but like overall I do think like there was a lot of moments that made me tense a little moments that made me you know worried nervous and that's the thing I think emotion is probably the core thing that you're wanting from narrative like you want to evoke some kind of reaction because like at the end of the day gameplay and I know we'll come onto it but gameplay is all about making sure the players cater to in terms of fun
00:29:18
Speaker
Whereas narrative is more pulling on the heartstrings, making them laugh, making them cry, you know. And there's been a fair share of games where I've sobbed and been like, you didn't have to go out those way. And it has to be like the reactionary, but in the best way, you know, it has to evoke a reaction because I'm saying that, but I'm realising there's a lot of games that do evoke a reaction and not a very good one. Because there are some that are just genuinely downright lazy.
00:29:48
Speaker
but yeah it has to be the right emotion and it has to be the right narrative like beats I think yeah oh definitely well I tell you what that's a that's a good segue let's turn to is there anything else you want to say about narrative or oh I'll return to it probably we will definitely return to it
00:30:10
Speaker
definitely but let's take a look at the other side of this equation let's take a look at gameplay oh yeah it's kind of important and definitely we've said it already i'll just quickly reiterate again like that was without a doubt the most important thing in the formative years of gaming through the 70s 80s you know with your arcade games and
00:30:27
Speaker
with your early consoles like there just wasn't the space for these complex stories it really had to be about fun gameplay and i would argue that nintendo nintendo like built themselves and i would argue they continue to build themselves upon a lot of games that have really really strong gameplay and really fun gameplay
00:30:42
Speaker
very basic stories like and that's not a slam on nintendo because the games are fun to play like i played i never really grew up in nintendo and when they started to get going to get into their games i played odyssey this is mario odyssey last year and like the game i had such fun playing it
00:30:58
Speaker
such a fun game to play, but the story is so basic and it seems to be the same story. You know, Bowser kidnapped Peach, going on an adventure to rescue her. But like, do you think, because obviously we talked about the kind of rise of these narrative gameplays, do you think there is still today room for games that really do focus on the gameplay? And do you think there are any kind of genres that really kind of specialise and need to specialise on that focus on gameplay rather than having a kind of like strong and complex narrative?
00:31:26
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I mean, for me, I would say probably, and this is going to sound so like, dude bro, college of tea, hero thing, but I feel like games like college of tea, this is something I've criticized college of tea for in the past, like the kind of declining narrative, you know, like, I think the best example of that was the F to P respects, which
00:31:49
Speaker
Basically, and this is something we talk about in the Heavy Rain playthrough, it's like gamifying certain experiences that shouldn't be gamified, you know? Like, there was a lot of prompts in Heavy Rain where we're like, why is that a prompt here? But it's not a prompt to save a child, or it's not a prompt to throw this or that, you know? Like, really ridiculous things. Just like, why did we have to press F for that?
00:32:16
Speaker
And there are a lot of moments that, because there's not that gameplay, it's taking away the player's agency. It's like it's saying, we value the narrative, which might not be as strong. And that's the thing, if the narrative isn't strong there, then you're just going to get someone very impatient sitting there being like, oh, I want to go back. I want to start shooting things again. It's like, well, you can't. You've got three more hours of Kevin Spacey there.
00:32:44
Speaker
sit down, shut up and like it. But that's the thing though, with Call of Duty I remember playing Cold War on stream and this again is going to sound terrible but I genuinely was just wanting to turn my brain off, cruise through the game, be like right mission to mission, you know like the old games and then I realised there were like dialogue wheels, there was like extra puzzles you had to do and
00:33:09
Speaker
Maybe people enjoyed that like fair enough like I'm not I'm not here to bash like what people like and don't like if you liked it fair enough but for me there comes a time when it's like sometimes you do just want to turn off your brain and sometimes you just want to play the game like I think the best example linking back to Call of Duty
00:33:29
Speaker
is the idea that the multiplayer usually has the better gameplay and things, but they sometimes try to weave in a story. For example, you and I have talked about this in our Ecology 2 Modern Warfare episode when we did The Retrospective and we were disappointed at how Warzone for Modern Warfare did a soft reboot, but instead of continuing the story in a sequel or something,
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, they did continue the story. Well, they did continue the story, but they continued it in Warzone, a battle royale where a 13-year-old can get his mother's credit card to snipe you from halfway across the map. It's like, oh yeah, I have never heard anyone say I'm playing Warzone for the narrative experience.
00:34:19
Speaker
I don't know. I feel as if you need a break. I mean, look at games like Tetris as well. Like Tetris 99 has given me more grey hairs and I care to admit. But at the same time, that's just a game. You know, it's like you're not expecting like some, you know, secret spy plot or something. Or are we? You know, that's the question.
00:34:39
Speaker
Now that protector's 100, that's what I want. Yeah. Yeah, where is the 100? Where's the extra one? I need to know, damn it. But that's the thing though, it's like sometimes you do want to break. You just want to turn off your brain, you just want to play. And this is something I do hate when it comes to film. So I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, but I hate when people say like, you know when a film is lazy with like a plot or something and someone goes, oh, it's just a popcorn flick. Oh, just turn your brain off.
00:35:05
Speaker
It's like sometimes there are films or there are games that you do just want to turn your brain off and just have a good time with them. But then there's other times where you do genuinely want something out of it. It's like you can't kind of cruise like 100% but yeah sorry that was a long way once again to say yeah those kind of games I would say. Yeah just quite short ones or ones just to kind of relieve stress or you know just just not really think about them you know. Yeah.
00:35:32
Speaker
I think definitely like you're totally right and I think definitely online gaming is definitely the preserve I would say of gameplay first because because as we said like and you can enjoy a really good story but there's not always that much replay you know and back to a story once you know it's twists and turns while if you have really fun gameplay you're gonna want to keep coming back and especially with online games they want you know that's what the companies want they want people to keep coming
00:35:56
Speaker
back. Look at the Battle Royale games and stuff. I've never played Fortnite, so I don't know if there's a complex lore and mythos behind Fortnite. I'm going to presume not, though. I presume it's the kind of fun, frenetic gameplay with all its twists and turns and everything. And they're the same with the kind of things. I know they've tried to put story into Warzone, but I don't think anybody is... Well, maybe somebody is playing Warzone for the ongoing story, but I think for the most part, it should be for the gameplay and everything.
00:36:24
Speaker
I was going to say shout out to all those lure masters out there who are keeping up with the story, you know. We appreciate your heroes. Populating the wikis and everything. I was just about to say that. It's like, if they don't populate the wikis, who's going to? Certainly not. They can't reach themselves. Oh well, true. Well, maybe they might, you know. You know, I don't know. Maybe, if you may.
00:36:51
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. But sorry, going on. No, no, no. But here's a question for you. Have you ever played a game where, like, rather than maybe the narrative kind of being laid out, like, the gameplay itself has told you a story?
Innovative Narratives: The Case of Her Story
00:37:06
Speaker
That is a good question. So the narrative isn't all there, but... So, can there be something like Metal Gear Solid? Right. Basically, Hideo Kojima designs the story of a Metal Gear Solid game, and you basically play through it. So as you progress, he gives you more parts of the story. I'm saying him. There's a team of them there.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, so he gives you part of the story so you play a bit and you get to another level and then bad Here's more of the story But have you ever played a game where like and actually by playing the game, it's how am I gonna? The gameplay itself like rather than progressing from level to level and getting more of the story the gameplay itself kind of organically Sorry, I need a terrible job. It's maybe I don't know. Okay. No, no, I played a gate Oh, do you understand what I'm you gotta understand my math? Yeah, no
00:37:54
Speaker
Oh no, I've had worse rambles. Like as in I've made worse rambles. No, it's just I'm trying to think of a game that does that because I think a lot of, and this can sound like a really weird example, but in terms of games that I've talked about in the past, let's go for the easy option first.
00:38:16
Speaker
games that I've played in the past. Pokemon is definitely one, because that never used to have that much of a strong story, you know? It's the typical you collect eight badges, you catch the monsters, you defeat the ruling body of Parliament.
00:38:33
Speaker
I know it's the Elite Four for anybody about to see. And now they're really going to be a part of that name. Yeah, of course. Let's face it, that's what they are. But you defeat them, you become the champion. That was really it. And throughout the games, they started adding more and more. And there's a particular scene in the black and white games, which by far is one of my personal favourites, because something about Pokémon is, although it is basic, you can go from start to finish.
00:39:02
Speaker
defeating trainer by trainer, blah blah blah. There are like side bits, like you can go into a building and basically it fleshes out the world, like more than you would expect. Like there's even one where it's like you go into a building and there's just like a random ghost girl and it's like, huh, neat.
00:39:19
Speaker
or there's like a bit at the end where you have to defeat the main villains and you think usually this is like where you have the big heroic climb to the top and there's this room at the side that you could completely miss you could completely walk ahead of it at least i think so correct me if i'm wrong anybody listening to this
00:39:37
Speaker
just email me with a subject line in all caps so I know in advance. But jokes aside, there's a room where you see it's basically the room of one of the main antagonists of the game. It's like his room as a child. It sounds weird to say but that says a lot about the character and about this environmental storytelling and things because it's
00:40:06
Speaker
Like, you know, it's clear it's like, oh, these guys bad, Team Plasma bad, two are like the main antagonists, you know? But this character himself is like, not, you know, he's like, there's kind of some modal ambiguity that he wants to be good, but he's just falling in with the wrong apples. That's the way that phrase goes, right?
00:40:26
Speaker
And part of that gameplay is exploration, and by exploring, it doesn't have to be a sandbox game to explore. I know it sounds weird, but look at platformers as well. Especially with Banjo-Kazooie, which is one I bring up a lot, but that does it really well with environmental storytelling.
00:40:49
Speaker
Where you've basically got a hub world where you've got like this kind of Queen twee village You know, they're not village. There's one house. Can you get a village with one house? I don't know Yeah, or a hole in the ground. I don't know
00:41:06
Speaker
But yeah, it's like, you know, there's one house there, it's occupied by a bear and a bird, you know, we all know the story. But you climb up this mountain and there's just like this huge intimidating face carved into the side of the mountain, spiral mountain that is, and you go in
00:41:23
Speaker
explore you know like bits and pieces and that's a platformer at the end of the day that's something that technically I think it's a collectathon or something they call it it's like a collector kind of like a bit like Donkey Kong 64 yeah but you know it's like that kind of incorporating you know this idea of exploration into the gameplay
00:41:45
Speaker
Not only to progress, but at the same time you get to learn about the characters, you interact with other ones and you learn how to defeat them. It's really well done in that regard. And I think without that, if it was just a pressie or a Banjo-Kazooie or God forbid Sonic was done in a quick time event kind of thing.
00:42:04
Speaker
I think it would fail. I don't think... Well, maybe I'm wrong. I'm just saying that in the general sense of what I know, but you never know. Because I could be bashing it, but it could work, maybe. I mean, look at Minecraft. That's got its own choose-your-own-story thing, doesn't it? With Minecraft. But it's supposed to be very good, too. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm good with it. Telltale 1 is not supposed to be very good, though. Oh, no. Oh, no.
00:42:30
Speaker
So sorry, I'll flop it back to you before I put another thing on. No, but it's that idea of, and this is how I should have phrased it, now I've just obviously thought this is how I should have phrased it, it's that idea of having some control over how you find out the story. So rather than like, rather than, you know, the video game designer having control, and it's like, this is how you're going to experience a story in this particular order. It's that idea that you have some control of how the story will unfold. And it came to me because I played a game this year, it's a few years old now, and I really enjoyed it, and I would thoroughly recommend it. It's on Steam, it's called Her Story.
00:42:59
Speaker
Have you heard of it? Oh, yeah. Is that the FMV one? Yeah, yeah. So basically, you play the role of somebody who is going through an old police database on a computer, and it contains all these video clips of an interview. It's like about a decade or maybe even 20 years before, which revolves around the murder of this man. And it's all interview clips from the man's wife. And the way that you have to find the video clips, though, is you have to type into the search bar particular terms.
00:43:27
Speaker
And if there's anything related to that, it'll bring up at the most five videos. And they're not in any particular order. They're from different dates. You find that you really have so much control over what you choose to search for and what comes up. And that's the way the story unfolds. And I really enjoyed that. And it was a really unique experience. I really thoroughly enjoyed
00:43:46
Speaker
Finding out about this year and you you'll be watching something about oh and I was writing down things You know, I was writing I was like, I want to find I'm gonna find out more about this like, you know One point she talked about going to Glasgow and I'm like, right I'm gonna search for Glasgow. See if there's any any more details More character mentioned and you're typing into the search bar when you're trying to narrow it down as well because there would be a lot sometimes you'll type in something and you might get like there might be like 50 videos and
00:44:07
Speaker
relate to that but you're only gonna see five, only five of them will show up so you're trying to like narrow things down to get more and it was that having control over how the story unfolded I thought was really really fascinating and I'm sure there's probably other games out there like that I can't think, I don't think I've played any more like that and I can't think of any on top of my head
00:44:24
Speaker
But that for me, I was like, that's a really example of how gameplay can tell a story, as opposed to having a linear narrative. Do you want to say about gameplay, or do you want to start diving into looking at the two of them together? I think we should. Yeah, let's dive into the two of them. Let's start with when they... Because obviously, neither of them really work in isolation. They are part of the same experience.
00:44:50
Speaker
So let's look at when they kind of work well together, when narrative and when gameplay gel. Are there any games that you've played that you felt like the two things are working in concert and really adding to the experience, not to track each other? I would probably say Skyrim, which I know is a bit of a basic example, but something I was thinking when you were talking there about
00:45:12
Speaker
gameplay narrative was this idea of player agency. So there's a lot of games, and especially even if you hop back to Valve's library, like with Porto, with Left 4 Dead, with the other one I'm missing.
00:45:27
Speaker
Half-Life, that's the one. You know, like, there's some kind of cutscenes but they're very limited, if you know what I mean? Like, most of the gameplay is told, or sorry, most of the story is told through, like, the gameplay and you're allowed to, like, run around during it, you know? It's like, it's not like nowadays where it's like, you get to a certain point in a game and then the game completely halts.
00:45:53
Speaker
and grabs a controller out your hands and goes, no, no more game. This is my time to tell a story. And this seems to be a thing that is very... See, this is the thing. I love narrative-driven games and things, but there has to be a balance there. There definitely has to be a balance, because with Skyrim, you can tell the story, you know? But at the same time,
00:46:17
Speaker
you can walk around during it. You can take a different approach to it every time. You don't have to be limited to, oh, I'm going to shoot my way through the village. Sometimes you might sneak through, sometimes you might walk through, or you might use magic. It's not limited to just being the John Wick of the medieval era.
00:46:39
Speaker
But yeah, I would say those are the games that don't really take away that agency too much. Even with Bioshock, technically. I know we'll come on to that in the latter half of this. But in some bits, they do it well where you are an active participant rather than an active bystander. And yeah, no, sorry. That's what I would say.
00:47:06
Speaker
No, Skyrim's an example and I really do think I'd agree with you on that. I think the joy as well of something like Skyrim as well as the ability, the gameplay kind of lets you, it can help you tell your own stories as well. Alongside the kind of main narratives that are there, you can also kind of build up your own character and the things you do. You can be like, oh, I'm making my own kind of story, which is a great strength of those kind of games.
00:47:27
Speaker
I think for me, when I was thinking, there were two games that sprang to my mind of that, like what I thought was almost perfect, kind of gelling between narrative and gameplay. One was Hotline Miami. Do you know Hotline Miami? Hotline Miami, for those of you who don't know, is a top-down kind of action game where you basically play this hitman and you're tasked with like, your answer machine leaves messages which basically lead you to like,
00:47:55
Speaker
and basically killing these like Russian gangsters in different locations and like it you know you kind of have different approaches but gameplay is very fast and frenetic and it's sort of a lot of trial and error like you burst into a room and try and take people out but chances are you'll die but it's it's really based around kind of quick loading and trying again and everything and I thought that frenetic kind of trial and error gameplay really matched the state of the main protagonist who's supposed to be this like drug addict
00:48:20
Speaker
and psychotic, like a hitman who can't tell like reality from like, you know, the psychosis in his head. The fact that he's getting these, he's getting like these missions from his answering machine, you know, and he can't quite like, he kind of, he talks to people, but you're not sure if people are there and stuff and he's getting like, he's speaking to these like dream, his dreams to these people wearing like,
00:48:38
Speaker
animal masks and stuff and so I thought the gameplay perfectly matched the kind of mental state of that character now he's in the world and the other one for me uh was probably the most stressed i've ever been playing a game but it was papers please oh yeah
00:48:53
Speaker
is a bureaucratic game where you play a border control officer for a fictional communist country and you're tasked with checking documentation of people arriving in the country and seeing whether they're allowed to enter
00:49:11
Speaker
whether they're they're not allowed and basically like it's also quite simple you know you're just checking a few things but then more and more gets added to it and the gameplay really relies on investigation you need to like you need to be checking dates on passports and different documents need to be checking all these documents forgeries what are people saying does their weight match up does their height match up like are these real is everything in order are things misspelled you know and everything are
00:49:33
Speaker
And at the same time, like you've got these different groups kind of like giving you kind of like, you know, you meet like a kind of rebel group who's trying to get you to do things, but also like, you know, the state is trying to make sure that you're, you're reigning loyal. And there's like people as well who are like, well, please let me in. You know, I know I don't have the right thing to see my wife and stuff. And so the gameplay creates...
00:49:51
Speaker
a massive amount of tension because you've only got a limited time and you're getting paid based on how many people you get in. You get docked if you don't let people in who should be or if you let people in who shouldn't be let in and stuff. So it's this complete tension created by the gameplay, but it completely fits into what the narrative is about a man trying to navigate his way through all these competing interests.
00:50:09
Speaker
while providing for his family and like honestly like i love that game now looking back at it at the time it was so stressful and honestly i was so relieved when i eventually got imprisoned for pissing off the official i was like thank god this game is over it's so stressful but the gameplay like mechanics which is perfect for imbuing that sense of what it must be like to be like you know live in a situation like that
00:50:31
Speaker
And I thought for me, because I think there are two most complete examples, I think a lot of games you can have moments where the gameplay and the kind of narrative mesh up. Like, I thought something like Spec Ops Align did that very well with its kind of white phosphorus scene. It's heightened by the fact that, you know, you're directly involved, you're given control of that, of the mortar which leads to that. But I thought for those two, for Hotline, Mammy and Papers, Please, those were the very complete experiences, kind of gelling the two sides together.
00:50:59
Speaker
Do you think it's important? Do you think it's necessary that gameplay and narrative gel? Or do you think it's nice that it happens but you can still enjoy a game even if they are? I feel as if they can work separately. There are good examples of that. I feel as if it does make them stronger. That's going to sound like the Chatsunami relationship ever.
00:51:26
Speaker
They both marry up quite well sometimes. It's like if one of them gets a bit too dominating, then you have to establish where the game stands. If you're saying this is a narrative-driven game, like Gone Home for instance, you can't say
00:51:45
Speaker
a game like that or de-rest or whatever is a you know like heavy gameplay like experience because it's not it's basically hold forward to win or not win but you know I mean hold forward to end the game where I
00:52:00
Speaker
A lot of games do. Look at Red Dead Redemption. The first and second. Going back to those. They've got the best of both worlds, really. I think they do it really well. They've got this very interactive story. Ironically enough, it does go on for too long. But then again, so has every cowboy film I've ever watched. So you know what? They did it well. They did it well. Oh, I'm sorry. I've seen the original True Grit. That went on for years.
00:52:30
Speaker
I went in a bowl and I came out of me. It was not a good time. I'm just kidding. It's an alright film. Anyway, I did see another Western on a cattle, like moving cattle from one side of a field to another. That was grim days. Anyway, moving away from Westerns. But that's the thing. It's got the best of both worlds.
00:52:51
Speaker
It's got the fast-paced, you know, gameplay. It's got the slower moments. It's got the places to explore and kind of flesh out the world. That does it really well. GTA kinda does the same thing. I wouldn't say it's this strong. Like, the fifth one probably isn't this strong. Like, it's got more to do. But I feel as if it's a bit more shallow. Like, I feel as if GTA IV is probably the better one in terms of narrative. Because you can definitely tell that in GTA IV
00:53:21
Speaker
they were trying to make a narrative-driven game like no pun intended but they were it was like about this person you know coming from overseas trying to love the American dream trying to you know establish this life for himself and break away from this life of crime but obviously you can you know because there would be a game
00:53:42
Speaker
and you've got the gameplay in there as well of course but you've also got this story that is like holding both of them up whereas GTA V did have a story but the way I think of it is like GTA V is like that cheesy b-movie you know like the cheesy 80s action film where it's like it's not bad necessarily but it's not anything deep like it's not anything you would go back to over and over again and be like oh my god this is I mean maybe maybe I'm wrong there like
00:54:13
Speaker
there will be people who enjoy the story but it's like I can't imagine people going back over and over again because I tried. Because I played it on the 360 then I played it on the Xbox One and I thought I just can't be bothered playing the same story again because I know what's gonna happen you know but I feel as if they do work together well like narrative and gameplay
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah, you do get some times where one tries to overpower the other, like, apparently Tomb Raider. I haven't really played much of it, but apparently Tomb Raider's quite bad for that. I think it's the first, the 2016 one, I wanna say? Or the soft reboot one? Yeah, 2013. I think it was 2013. Oh, 2013, sorry. Even longer ago, my god. I think the sequel was 2016.
00:54:56
Speaker
oh okay got you yeah apparently that's got like a lot of quick time events like in times of like deep stress and that's what a lot of people were kind of saying in the reviews they were saying oh my like they weren't saying my agency my agency my kingdom for agency but you know that that was getting taken away from them and it was like there's not really a way to fail because it's basically like a cheat sheet isn't it
00:55:20
Speaker
when you get quick time events and things and it's all to service the plot. Like again, going back to Advance Warfare, play safe to pay respects, which let's face it, it should never have been a prompt. And because of that, it's just become an eternal meme. But yeah, there just has to be a decision on what takes precedence. Should it be the narrative? Should it be the gameplay? Yeah, which one?
00:55:46
Speaker
Essentially. Yeah, then you can even build from there. The GTA 5 one I think is a really interesting example. Well, I tell you what actually, let's get into, let's look into some examples. I think actually, let's look at some examples of where the two clash and we talk about that. And I think we can maybe bring this together because GTA 5 is an interesting example of both sides of there. So looking at the idea, so we've looked at when kind of gameplay and narrative work really well together, but there are examples of when they clash and they are completely separate. And this is where we can get into our, into our, into our favourite term, Lulu narrative dissonance.
00:56:16
Speaker
Again, so here we go, we've got there, we've got there, everybody tenderly waiting.
Ludo Narrative Dissonance in Uncharted
00:56:21
Speaker
But what about, are there any games that you can think of that you've played and you've just felt like there is this kind of serious disconnect between, you know, the narrative of a game and then its gameplay, either in just a sense that they don't fit well together or are they telling competing stories? Is there any examples like that that you've found?
00:56:36
Speaker
I suppose Bioshock Infinite or any FPS that tries to make the hero like a hero if you know what I mean? You know it's like they want to make him morally complex and you know oh he's not a killer you know he only kills when he has to and then it cuts to like you mowing down like 50 people like a cutscene ago or not cutscene but like a level before and you're like come on
00:57:01
Speaker
This is just, come on! Just trying to think of any other ones. Like Bioshock Infinite is definitely one of them because that is like, I know that's probably where this term is like stemming from, those kind of games. But yeah, for me, I loved the story. I thought the story was great. I would probably watch a film of it rather than the game.
00:57:22
Speaker
because I feel as if they could have cut like a lot of the fat out in between you know a lot of the unnecessary bits and things and yeah like a lot of it slows down because of the gameplay and there have been games like that I can't think off the top of my head but there are games like that where to proceed in the story you have to collect things like I think
00:57:44
Speaker
you know, it wouldn't be a chance to name it without me bringing up Sonic. Sonic Unleashed does that terribly where it's like you have to collect these medallions and things to get like power-ups and to be able to actually progress through the story and it's like, but why though?
00:58:01
Speaker
Why would you do this to me? Like, I just want to run fast and, you know, experience the game. I don't want to be slowed down and hindered, you know? That it becomes another game. You know what I mean? It's like, you buy a game for one reason and then because of the gameplay, it's like, it impacts on the narrative and it's just they don't mesh up. Like, you get a lot of these games though, don't you? Where it's like, we've got to stop the evil force in the world. And it's like,
00:58:26
Speaker
okay and then you spend like hours you know messing about in a field or doing like side quests and things. I mean even with Skyrim like there's a civil war going on, there's like dragons coming back and it's like you're just picking nightshade in the middle of the woods you know. You've got to quit doing nightshade for this woman. Yeah and it's like well...
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah well they can wait I suppose. Those would be the main examples. There's tons more I can kind of think of but those are the ones off the top of my head I would say.
00:59:06
Speaker
Do you play any Fallout 4? Oh yeah. I played the beginning of it, was not enthralled, I have to say. Fair enough. No, that's fair. I'm not the hugest fan of the Fallout series, but the big problem with Fallout 4 was the main story basically revolves around you either play a mother or a father who's lost their son, and the story, and you basically go into crowds, sleep with your son,
00:59:28
Speaker
and your other partner, and then they get killed at some point, and your son gets taken, and you wake up some indeterminate amount of time afterwards, and you need to find your son. So that's the main story. But the game, being a Fallout game, being one of those open world games, you get littered with so many side quests, other things, places to explore and things. A lot of the fun in these games is exploring places, doing these side quests, meeting zany characters and stuff.
00:59:53
Speaker
But it just felt so wrong in this game. And I like to do that stuff. I like to explore and complete side quests and find people and stuff like that. But it just felt so wrong. If I was playing this properly, I should be making a beeline to find myself. And that's all I should be doing in this whole game. I should be ignoring everything else. The game almost encourages you to do these side activities.
01:00:15
Speaker
That's the prime example for me of that kind of almost ludonarrative dissonance there. And I think a lot of open world games have that problem, that Fallout 4 for me was a particular one. A bugbear for me is one that's like, so I recently finished Super Metroid, first time I ever played it, trying to get a bit more au fait with some of Nintendo's old catalog. And I really enjoyed, really thoroughly enjoyed the game. So Super Metroid is the third game in the Metroid series.
01:00:42
Speaker
and what annoys me is so you start the game and basically the idea of the Metroid games is that you explore you unlock new powers and more the world opens up that way you know the Metroidvania-esque game but what annoys me is I was thinking like so this is the third game surely Samus Aran who's the main character in the Metroid she's had all these abilities before why does she have them again who doesn't she have them the Witcher 3 does something I'm not playing that much the Witcher 3 again I was just like
01:01:07
Speaker
Geralt has really been through two Witcher games before and he's been through, he's done all these amazing adventures and all these amazing exploits, but why is he back to being like a scrub again? A star of witches being killed by wolves. You know, that's one that, like, I guess it's because it's a game, you know, that's one, but that's always kind of annoyed me. Maybe that's just a personal one.
01:01:24
Speaker
No, a lot of platformers do that as well though. Like, Looking Sonic or Banjo-Kazooie as well does it. Mario as well. They do it, at least the excuse there is they do it to introduce new mechanics. Even then, I totally see what you mean. It's like, why do they not have that ability when they had it in the past? Did they just throw it all in the ocean bardemic style? Just wave to it, you know? Yeah, it makes no sense. You're right, it doesn't.
01:01:54
Speaker
And then can I get to my main example, the one I want to hold up as the example of ludonarrative dissonance. And that is Uncharted games. So the main character of the first four Uncharted games was Nathan Drake. And in the narrative, he's presented as this kind of like swashbuckler, and he's this dashing rogue. He's very witty, he's good-looking, he's great with the ladies and everything. And we're supposed to kind of really empathize and sympathize with him, because he's an everyman. And that's the way he did in the story.
01:02:23
Speaker
But then when you play the gameplay, here's a stone called Killer, who probably got one of the biggest body counts in video games ever. It's probably rivaling somebody like Kratos. It makes sense for Kratos to be this horrible killer and everything. For me, they always sat, and a lot of other people feel the same way, they've always sat on easily these two things. I never fully empathize with Nathan Drake because I'm like, you have no remorse for killing anybody.
01:02:51
Speaker
you always seem to enjoy it so you're just like this absolute psychopath and that's been like a problem for me. I'm not the hugest fan of the Uncharted games but and that's one reason why I'm not the biggest fan because it's just a huge disconnect. That's the annoying thing though like going back to games like whether they be open world or whether they be FPS games you know any game like that where it's like
01:03:12
Speaker
you have built your character up being this certain way and at the end of the day it ends up like you're gonna get an arbitrary choice at the end. Don't get me wrong, the amount of effort and work it would take for hundreds of different outcomes to be available in a game would take ages but at the same time it's kinda a bit gutting. And again, if there's any fans of Call of Duty Ghosts here,
01:03:39
Speaker
cover your ears. I'm not the biggest fan. Okay, covering my ears. Yep, so I will be spoiling just the ending but basically at the end of that you do your stereotypical, you know, you save the blow up a train archive. I remember what happens, you blow up a train or something. You're sitting on a beach thinking, ah job well done and then one of the villains like dragged you away. They somehow survived and it's like
01:04:05
Speaker
I know it was like to set up a cliffhanger, but it's like, so I've gone through that entire game for nothing, essentially. Like, I've gone through... Another example, actually, and this is gonna sound like a weird one, but you've played Sleeping Dogs, haven't you? Yeah. Like, absolutely brilliant game. One of my favourites of all time.
01:04:23
Speaker
One of the weird things though for me is the dating missions and I don't know if you've ever noticed this but it's like there's a certain point where you know it's like GTA where you're on GTA you could phone up like different women and you could like go out and date. You know wine and dine them like the true gentleman hijack who you are.
01:04:44
Speaker
but with that like with Sleeping Dogs it felt as if it was like shoved in like just for the sake of it so it'd be like you would do like a story-based mission to advance the plot and then the next one would be like this woman who you met like once in the karaoke bar coming up to you being like who is this person and like being outraged as if you were dating or something you're like what is going on
01:05:07
Speaker
And that's another idea of like trying to push the narrative you know to be like oh this is a cohesive story we gotta you know if this happens then it has to go on but it just it doesn't work well in that way it's again taking the agency away from the player to say yeah this is what's happened do you feel good about yourself well no game of course I don't feel good. Not to call you out but I mean you're completely wrong about the ending of Ghost because that ending is brilliant and genius but when
01:05:36
Speaker
I totally agree with you. I totally agree with your sleeping dog point. It's very, it's totally true. And I did, you're right, I did just film these things like, oh, well, GTA had that. So we're trying to be GTA-esque. And that's not to, you know, that's not to put down sleeping dogs, because totally brilliant game. But they were like, oh, maybe we should, it did feel like maybe we should just put that in.
01:05:54
Speaker
Do you think it's a real problem having this dissonance between these two elements of a game? Or would it ever stop you from playing a game? They're telling competing stories. It wouldn't put me off, but I do think the lines are getting a bit blurred nowadays.
Cinematic Experiences in Gaming
01:06:13
Speaker
As we said at the beginning of this episode, games used to just be about
01:06:18
Speaker
Back in my day, games used to be about the ping pong and the Tetris. You know, it used to be just a time waster. You'd shove it on the screen or your Commodore 64 or the one person who had an Atari, that sort of Atari bash for the episode, a quota done.
01:06:37
Speaker
but you know like you would play a game you would put it on and I mean look at like the NES and things like a lot of them barely had like save states and things some games if you didn't have a memory card you would be playing you know from scratch the more games develop to the more this idea that
01:06:53
Speaker
oh, we could use games as a narrative for stories, or a driving force, like a tool for telling these stories, being able to say, oh look, this is the adventure of Duke Nukem, or Sonic, or anybody like that. And this is the thing, it even got to the extent where there's a wardrobe winning writers
01:07:17
Speaker
working on these games, like especially for Call of Duty. I can't remember which one, and this has happened before, I brought this up and I can't remember. I think it was Ghosts, but I could be wrong. I think it was Advance Warfare. Or was it Advance Warfare, maybe. Maybe it was Ghosts, I see. It was one of those two. It was one of them, yeah. They were after each other, so. Yeah, it's probably, yeah.
01:07:38
Speaker
And that's the thing though, it's like, it's almost as if game companies, and again this is like broad strokes here, but a lot of game companies are trying to make this like cinematic experience and there's nothing wrong with that, like there's a lot of games I've played and they've been completely absorbed in the story thinking, oh this is so cool, look at this! But then on the flip side of that, it's like it can drag on.
01:08:04
Speaker
sometimes and you're just like I just want to play a game you know it's like with Cold War for Call of Duty I was like I just want to shoot things I don't I don't want to sneak around I don't want it because Call of Duty you're not built for sneaking around don't pretend you're like splinter style come on I think
01:08:24
Speaker
it's just there's a danger nowadays because look at like The Last of Us 2 as well. I would say anything David Cage has brought out but let's face it I don't think he's gonna be bringing out anything for a while. Basically what do the game publishers want from the players? What do they want them to feel? And what are the creative designers? What are they wanting to get out of it? Like are they wanting to tell a story? Are they just wanting a fun game? Because look at games like Fall Guys for example. That's not got a deep lore.
01:08:53
Speaker
And that's like a lot of fun. It's still rage inducing, but it is a lot of fun. Golf with friends as well. You know, there's no like deep lore for that. But it's amazing. On the flip side, like Gears of War, kind of, I feel as if Gears of War did it quite well for the first couple. You know, like it's still your standard shooter, standard space shooter. You're going from point A to point B. But at the same time, they hit a lot of like really natural beats. It's like the cutscenes come in and it's not like it's
01:09:23
Speaker
It is still tearing away the, you know, word of the day as well from the agency from the player. It's kind of taking that away from them, but at the same time it's not doing it in a very overt way. You know, it's kind of like stopping at a natural point, if you know what I mean? Like say, yeah, okay, that's the end of this chapter. Let's watch a cutscene for the next chapter.
01:09:46
Speaker
I don't know in terms of horror games as well, because look at Phasmophobia. That's all pure imagination and or horror. And that doesn't really have a deep story. It's just you're a ghost hunter hunting ghosts. Whereas something like Dead Space, would you say it's something like Dead Space, mixes the two well together?
01:10:06
Speaker
I've not played, I've played Dead Space 1 and Dead Space 3, so I've not played the second one. So for me, I think it's maybe when they started adding more story in, like a bit too much, because, well, as well, it's difficult because I don't know whether that's the problem. I think maybe the bigger problem was that they decided, they changed, what did I say, they decided EA made the studio change genre of it. So it went from being a survival horror to being an action adventure. I think that's where the real problem was with that.
01:10:32
Speaker
It's funny because I think if you look at a lot, I kind of, I agree with you. I don't think like Ludo narrative distance has ever stopped me from playing a game. Like I know I just slammed the Uncharted games there, but I have played one, I played one, two and three all the way through. So it wasn't enough to stop me from playing those games. And I don't think it ever stopped me from playing a game. It's just something that I can whinge about, you know, down the line.
01:10:52
Speaker
and try and look smart. And I think if you look at most games, I think there are elements where the gameplay and narrative gel really well together, and then there's other examples where they clash. And I think, linking it back to GTA V, one way that the narrative and the gameplay gel really well together is in the character of Trevor. And Trevor was designed to be a character who kind of represented the anarchic way that a lot of people play those games.
01:11:16
Speaker
And so it makes complete sense for you to like take Trevor and just go on a murder spree and steal cars blow things up because it completely fits his psychotic character. It doesn't it doesn't feel as right if you take somebody like Michael or Franklin who are the other two characters GTN do that because their characters aren't
01:11:32
Speaker
they aren't like that. They're more stable characters who are not as interested in anarchy as Trevor is. So I think most games probably have that, to an extent. There are elements where things will work well together, but then there's also bits where it won't work well together. I think
01:11:48
Speaker
One thing I was just going to bring up as well is I think there is actually, there can be a good reason to have some dissonance and to separate out the two, the narrative from the gameplay. And I think if you look at a lot of RPGs, especially turn-based ones, so games like some of the Final Fantasies and there's one called Octopath Travelers in there as well. Oh yeah.
01:12:07
Speaker
So I think it's on Game Pass now, where you meet a lot of characters as you progress and you build up a big party. So you can have like a party of 10, but you're kind of restricted to a party of three if you want to go into adventure, you know, you want to go into combat. So technically in the narrative, that doesn't make sense because you'd be like, well, I'm just gonna take all 10 people because I'll have a much better chance, you know.
01:12:26
Speaker
of winning and getting through all these fights but then if you did that that would make the game too easy so in terms of balance it kind of makes sense to have that dissonance and just to make the game you know more fun and more challenging and not like just cakewalk that was sort of sounds kind of what i was thinking but yeah like i mean is there anything else that you think of like
01:12:45
Speaker
with gameplay and narrative either like meshing well together or clashing or anything like that? I think like it definitely depends on the game style I would say yeah like if you've got a multiplayer game I would say stick to the gameplay unless obviously it's a campaign or something like that
01:13:04
Speaker
For obvious reasons, you have to have the narrative there. But for anything else, just stick to the gameplay. Because at the end of the day, Moski... And again, broad strokes here, so take it with a pinch of salt. But a lot of these online games try to weave in a story and things, and you're just like...
01:13:21
Speaker
because at the end of the day these online games aren't going to be there forever and therefore the story's going to just get lost whereas if you're putting your efforts into a single player game that can be played over and over again and I know we've kind of discussed this in another episode of Chatsunami but
01:13:38
Speaker
yeah it's like trying to find that right balance. I was actually thinking and this is going back to our very well our very first episode together um that being the Halo retrospective and a lot like a big topic that we discussed was the story of those games and how I feel as if that's the perfect example of good gameplay that just got better but yeah it's like one of those like X like you're one of those graphs where it's like
01:14:06
Speaker
The gameplay increases, like the gameplay line goes up, but the narrative goes way down.
Halo's Narrative and Gameplay Evolution
01:14:14
Speaker
Because Halo has this issue of it has got a good lore, it's got a great foundation for doing things like this, but it does not come across well in the games at all. And whether that's like a rushed production cycle, whether that's because it's a creative director's decision, whether it's that or
01:14:33
Speaker
you know this or whatever at the end of the day they have the building blocks but the narrative and this is the thing because I wouldn't like be so harsh on it if they didn't put so much emphasis on it if you know what I mean like yeah the fact that they say oh the master chief it's a chosen one he has to defeat you know the evil ancient aliens it's like that's pretty high stakes
01:14:54
Speaker
for something that you know like because some people might say you know oh it's a dumb game you know just turn off your brain and just shoot the aliens but there is like you can't shoot them without having like a big bombastic cutscene of the master chief like running away or having a quick time event yes that did happen the Halo 4 woke it up
01:15:14
Speaker
You know, as I said, there has to be the balance there. I think maybe Reach is the closest it got to being right, but even then it had its foes. I think with something like Halo, I think it's when a story is simple, it's at its best. That's why I love the first Halo for many reasons.
01:15:33
Speaker
but it's probably my fate. Is that a reach? They're my two favorite of the Halo stories and I think it's because of the most simple. Reach is a very simple tale of, if you know the Halo lore, you know what's going to happen. It's like a desperate last stand and that works so well. I love the first Halo as well because it's fairly simple. Land on this alien place and we're just trying to find out what's happening and then we uncover things and learn more. I think it progresses quite well, unfolds nicely. I do think the later ones,
01:16:03
Speaker
And I agree, like, when we played Halo 4, like, it was such a fun to play, and it was such a blast. I was like, God, this gameplay is so good. But yeah, like, the story just was going wild at that point. And then Halo 5 as well, it's just boring. And you know, you're like, it just, it got too much into itself to be able to get too much of his own ass, really, I think, kind of getting kind of stuck into his lore and everything. So I would totally agree. That is one of what you like about such fun gameplay, but man.
01:16:27
Speaker
when we get through these cutscenes and get back to it. But kind of just one quick final point sort of before you move on. It's something you mentioned earlier, the idea that the more bloated an narrative gets, the less it becomes endearing, you know? Sometimes there are some things where people are like, oh we have to do this or we have to explain that and then you're playing it and you're like,
01:16:48
Speaker
maybe not you know like hindsight's a wonderful thing you know you can't let the tale and tell the games out and you know thousands or hundreds of thousands of people are playing the same game they all have their own opinions like you know like us just now but
01:17:03
Speaker
it is that kind of you have to think like when is too much you know like when do we say stop when do we put our hand up when they're grating the cheese over this game you know because otherwise you're just gonna get a pile of cheddar or mozzarella or whatever cheese you like if you don't like cheese um yeah replace it with pepper but you get my meaning no you're screwed yeah yeah exactly you're just gonna get a mound or something on your plate you think you've
01:17:29
Speaker
Gotta have, like, a narrow focus. Because this is the thing. This is the difference between, like, gameplay and, you know, because look at, um, Deadly Premonition. Deadly Premonition had an end goal. Granted, it had, like, a lot of detours in between.
Enjoying Games Despite Awful Gameplay?
01:17:45
Speaker
And again, like, I would strongly encourage you to listen to our episode on it. Really great discussion on it. That's the thing, though. The gameplay is awful. But the fact that the narrative is so kind of, like, it has got this hook, you know?
01:17:59
Speaker
It's like who has the raincoat killer? What happened years ago? It's not just saying murder. It's not dragging its heels. And again, even though the gameplay was bad, you and I had a lot of fun. And that's the thing as well, having fun.
01:18:19
Speaker
despite those issues being able to triumph. So you can have a game that has a strong narrative and really bad gameplay and still have fun with it. I mean, a lot of the retro games that we play have terrible controls. I mean, it's not terrible, but look at games like Timesplitters. Fantastic. I love it. But the controls are definitely aged compared to some of the others. It can be difficult to go back to.
01:18:43
Speaker
Whereas you come back for the narrative as well, whether it's like a jokey narrative or, you know, it still doesn't matter. It's like it's there and it's ready for you and it's interesting in that regard.
When Gameplay Triumphs Over Story
01:18:57
Speaker
But if you flip it around, if a story is bad, I think it has to be really good gameplay because if it's mediocre... I've said this before in terms of films and I agree for games that if it's mediocre, that's the worst thing for a game.
01:19:13
Speaker
that's definitely the worst thing a game can be because you want it to be either terrible that people talk about it or you want it to be fantastic that people will write books about it but if it's that kind of in between like I remember playing and this is maybe like showing how good it is but I remember ages ago playing the Ghost Rider game
01:19:33
Speaker
Like, I had a blast with it. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast. Like, I ordered it out. I not ordered it, but I hired it out of Blockbuster. And I absolutely loved playing it, but it's not like one that I would put in my, like, top 10 list of, like, games or... Yeah, it's not one that you would kind of write home about.
01:19:51
Speaker
Yeah. So I feel as if the burden is more on the narrative, like kind of flippin' it back. Would you say that it's more important the narrative is good or the gameplay? Oh, again, I'm gonna have to answer the subjective because I think this is such a subjective question. Yeah, oh, absolutely.
01:20:09
Speaker
And if I think of what my favorite games are, they are primarily, you know, they might almost exclusively be narrative-driven experiences. They might be games where one of the big hooks has a strong story. That being said, I think you can get by with a kind of weak story.
01:20:30
Speaker
mediocre story with strong gameplay. But I agree with you, I think it has to be very strong gameplay. Like something like Metal Gear Solid 5 for me, that probably has the weakest story out of any of the Metal Gear Solid's. And it completely like, well, the first half of it is okay and in the second half it just loses any
01:20:47
Speaker
It's terrible. But the gameplay in that is so good. And I just thought, I thought that was like the pinnacle of that kind of stealth action gameplay. I don't think it'll get better for a while because I was like, this is incredible. Like everything about this works so well and it feels like amazing to play. And so that was something that kept me going through the kind of the weak points of the story.
Resident Evil: Engaging Gameplay Amid Wacky Plots
01:21:08
Speaker
And yeah, I agree with the later Halo games as well. As I said, again, back at the start, like I think things like Mario and Zelda don't have, I mean, I know there are some, there are some Zeldas that
01:21:17
Speaker
I know people talk about Wind Waker as a really good story, and I've joined some others I'm blanking on, but it feels to me that most of the time the story is quite generic and quite formulaic, and it's pretty much the same from copy and paste from one to the other, but the gameplay is so good and people love that aspect of it, but that's why these games are so admired and revered.
01:21:37
Speaker
And a series which I really enjoy is Resident Evil. And Resident Evil, for the most part, has had such wacky, campy, nonsensical plots for all, especially a lot of the early games. They're just so out there. But the games were fun to play. They were really tense. Especially for the first three, it was really tense kind of gameplay and survival horror. And it's four. Again, four is another wacky plot. But the gameplay was something so different. And it just really absorbed people and everything.
01:22:05
Speaker
i think you can i totally agree you can have a weak story but the game has to have great gameplay i think to keep especially keep me and keep me invested in it and wanting to play well i think that kind of what i was i was gonna throw a curveball at you at the end but you preempted me there because i was gonna ask because i know you said at the beginning of this episode it wasn't we weren't talking about we weren't going to talk about which one was more important i was gonna throw the curveball at you and say which one is more important but i think we're both saying narrative yeah i'm understanding yeah oh yeah like uh no like final point don't worry
01:22:35
Speaker
but I do feel as if the narrative has more pressure on it to be good because it's all fair and good for if the gameplay flops then it's like what else is supporting it you know like it is two things like two sides of the same coin it's like if you are gonna have a story it has to justify the gameplay you know like you can't have like I mean look at mobile games where it's like you've got this weird story about like
01:23:03
Speaker
I don't know like somebody you know being a spy or like this cool action game and then when you open it it's like Candy Crush you know it's like there's a complete disconnect there you're like okay where's the narrative here that matches up here like they do have to marry up but I feel as if if the narrative fails then I feel as if it probably gets a lot more criticism like I don't know like if it's a purely
01:23:30
Speaker
gameplay focus game then yeah obviously the gameplay is gonna get most of the flack but if it's a game that's you know proudly saying oh i'm an interactive experience and it's like go away david cage but you know it's like if somebody says you know oh this is supposed to be an art of experience then people what in fact sorry let me let me down back quickly what i think
01:23:53
Speaker
like another reason why it's so kind of there's so much pressure on it is the fact that people's tastes are going to be very subjective like especially more so when it comes to narrative as opposed to you know like gameplay like you know like there's only one way you can play most games you know it's like the same set of controls and it just depends on the skill level of the player but you know it's like there's no other way to shoot in Call of Duty there's no other way
01:24:20
Speaker
you know, accept those videos where they like, you know, played Doom on the cars and things like that, but that's another, that's a whole different thing. I mean, it depends. Like, you and I have played games before, and I'm not gonna get into details of them, but you and I have played games before where we disagree with the content or we think, that's not the narrative for me, but at the same time, it's like other people have come in saying, oh no, I do agree that this is, you know, this is good.
01:24:46
Speaker
So it's purely subjective, and I feel as if that's further dividing a game. It's like, do you like shooter games? Yes or no. That's all you have to ask for, like an FPS. Or do you like platformers? Yes or no. But then you get further branching down where it's like, do you like stories about hedgehogs? Or do you like stories about Italian plumbers? Do you like stories about the Scapelli brothers? Scapelli brothers when? Nintendo.
01:25:15
Speaker
Make the game you covered. Give us what we want. Don't make me beg, because I'll beg. But yeah, I feel as if it further kind of divides the preference wheel of it, of like a game and the general audiences, which I think is why a lot of games try to keep it genetic, to be like shooter game, modern military, you know, and not like shooter game, outer space, combat in space, you know, like it keeps going on. Yeah.
01:25:44
Speaker
but that's mattress and so on, sorry. No, no, no, because I think it's really, it's really good, really pertinent stuff. Like, I think it's just as my final point, I would say, I think, I think especially in the AAA gaming industry, I think we've come to expect narrative driven stories and sorry, narrative driven experiences now, you know, we've come to expect games with strong stories. So I feel like in that particular genre, it is like the most important because it's what we've come to expect.
01:26:08
Speaker
Now, while, you know, in like other, in more, in things like, you know, free to play games or say mobile games or especially in the indie market as well, like there are still room for those like narrative experiences, but I think there's more like, you know, we're more willing to, we're more willing to accept a game that relies much more strongly on its gameplay with a weaker story is what I would, is what I would say is the kind of final point.
The Crucial Balance: Narrative vs Gameplay
01:26:30
Speaker
Yeah. So is there anything else you want to talk about, like say about narrative gameplay or anything like that? Yeah, just balance out your narrative and gameplay, guys.
01:26:38
Speaker
Try and get a balance, because it does work well when you can do it, I'd agree. Well, there we go. You can put a bow on it, and I can dust away and put back in its box, lead or narrative dissonance. I'm sure there's some other point down the road. Absolutely. It's not Chekhov's gun, it's Adam's. That's the lead or narrative dissonance. Exactly.
01:27:01
Speaker
It's just hanging on the wall when it's like, how long has that been there? It's like, oh, you don't wanna know. It's like a new version of Pluto. It's like it was Adam in the dining room with Pluto narrative dissonance. I knew it! That's what he gets for taking the dog in Monopoly. How dare. Anyway, our next game night aside.
01:27:25
Speaker
But no, thank you so much for, yeah, how to put this. Not about the dissonance thing, but yeah, thank you so much for, you know, coming on and yeah. I suppose going down memory lane as well, because like a lot of these games are quite, it's quite nostalgic to look back and see how they're developed. So yeah, thank you so much for joining on this. No, thank you for suggesting this topic. It was a really fun topic and I was really, the minute you said it, I was like, yes, yes. Yes, this is going to be an amazing, great topic to discuss. And I had a lot of fun researching it.
01:27:55
Speaker
Thank you. No, absolutely. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. For sure.
Where to Find More Content
01:28:00
Speaker
Absolutely. So yeah, if you actually want to see more of our Chat Tsunami episodes, you can catch us on Anchor, Spotify, YouTube as well. And yeah, all good podcast distributors. We are out there. Just type the name Chat Tsunami and you will find us. Just look for the red panda.
01:28:16
Speaker
If you want to check out more of our content on YouTube, we are doing a Let's Play series called Tea Posing with you, myself and our good friend Green Shield. We are playing Heavy Rain, GTA, Breath of the Wild and of course Warzone. So yeah, we're making our way through the games slowly but surely. I've also got a very, dare I say, cagey game coming up in a couple of weeks.
01:28:42
Speaker
Yeah, really excited. Could that be a one? I know, I'm really excited to reveal that one though. And yeah, if you want to check out more of my content, you can check me out on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitch, TikTok as well, under the name Satsanami42, just look for the name Satsanami42 and you'll find me.
01:29:00
Speaker
T-Pose in as well is on the Sat Tsunami 42 YouTube channel. So yeah, look it up, come find us, have laughs. Yeah, and bring your snacks because a lot of these episodes are long but they're also filled with laughs so try not to drink in between them. So yeah, thank you again Adam so much for joining me tonight. Thank you Sat Tsunami. Yeah, as always stay safe, stay awesome, most importantly stay hydrated and see you guys next time. Bye!
01:29:30
Speaker
Bye-bye.