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Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
286 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Satsunami and his friend SuperShadow271 take on the infamous game Sonic 06. Is it really as bad as everyone says? Or are the legends about this game true? Only one way to find out in this episode of Chatsunami!
For more content from Satsunami, please click here!
For more content from SuperShadow271, please click here!
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Transcript
Introduction and Co-host Absence
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chat Tsunami. I'm Sat Tsunami and unfortunately my usual co-host isn't here because I may or may not have made him watch a particular film about birds and the upcoming birdemic as it were. So he has run away for this week.
Guest Introduction and Bad Games Discussion
00:00:38
Speaker
So instead I thought how could I actually follow up with this and I thought you know what let's follow up with a bad video game.
00:00:45
Speaker
And I thought, especially with this particular game, I thought, who can I get to help me? And you know what? I couldn't think of anyone better or more suited for this role than the amazing Super Shadow 271. Shadow, welcome back. Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really excited. I had a blast last time.
00:01:06
Speaker
Oh yeah, no, it was fantastic. Yeah. If you haven't listened to the episodes, Shadow and I had, basically we were just talking about really old things Sonic and streaming last time. Yeah, I do like to think of myself as a Sonic aficionado. So if you'd like to hear like an opinions on Sonic there, yeah, feel free to give that a listen. It will definitely, it's a good appetizer for this one. Yes, yeah, definitely.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah.
The Infamous Sonic 06
00:01:37
Speaker
So yeah, of course, yeah, I've kind of like spilled the beans there that today we are going to be talking about, oh, how can we call this game? It's kind of weird because you would think, you know, by the title it's called Sonic the Hedgehog. But it is right to assume, isn't it, that this game has like several different names. Yes. Most commonly it's 06 just because of the year. I know they intended it as a reboot of the franchise so they were trying to do the edgy reboot with the same name.
00:02:05
Speaker
That's ultimately why they chose the name, but I prefer 06. Yeah, there was Sonic next gen as well, was there not? Yeah, there were several different names for it. I think the most infamous one, I think I brought this up to you last time, but the most infamous one was the successor to Sonic Adventure, and I don't think that caught on somehow.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, well, sort of. There are a lot of people who say that this is basically Sonic Adventure 3. I heavily disagree, but there are people who say it. Yes. Let's just say a lot of the younger fanbase, I think, say that. I also kind of take issue because, again, I couldn't find the exact quote, but they kind of considered Heroes to be Adventure 3 already. So I always took issue with people saying that this was Adventure 3 because it just always felt like, like, Sega just kind of always called the games like that.
00:02:59
Speaker
yeah I mean they knew adventure was popular so they were like hey if we say this is like adventure people will be interested do you know what it reminds me of is you know in those old cartoons where the guy has like the cardboard box and then he's got the stick that props up the box and underneath it's always the bait I feel like that's Sega but they just put like Sonic Adventure 3 they've just kind of written it on an applicant and they've just thrown it under and then
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, all of the hungry fanboys trying to go under.
Sega's Sonic Adventure Tease
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's so funny, especially if you follow the Sonic Twitter account and other Sonic social media. They always reference adventure in tons of different posts. And everyone always goes like, oh boy, adventure references, adventure references. And they just never do anything with it. It's like, okay, I hear you. You want a Sonic Colours remake? It's like, no.
00:03:54
Speaker
I hear you, you want a Breath of the Wild style game. Oh, right. No, I don't. It's like, right, OK, OK, OK, I hear you. So what you want is a man in the Olympics dressed up as Sonic. And it's like, Sega, what are you doing? What are you actually doing now? Now you're just taking the uniform. Yeah.
00:04:13
Speaker
Exactly. For anyone who doesn't know what I mean, that is a genuine thing. Sonic is going to be in the one pick, like not the real one, but well maybe. I don't know, it's not being announced. But like in the Japan, is Japan isn't it? The Tokyo one picks I think. Yes, Tokyo. And it's like they've got DLC for it where you can race your guy as Sonic the Hedgehog.
00:04:36
Speaker
to run and it is like the most uncanny valley stuff ever. Yeah it's also totally unnecessary to announce because that really feels like just one of those silly unlockables that most people don't really think about. It's just so bizarre but it's funny too because there were people who were going like right before Mania was announced they posted all this classic Sonic memes so like now that they're posting a lot of adventure memes maybe they'll announce a new adventure game.
00:05:03
Speaker
They just never did always that carrot on a stick like you were saying. Yeah, it's always the bait just out of reach. But that's actually quite interesting though. Speaking of kind of, well, Sega baiting the fans, which is something I think they've got down to fine art
Sonic's Reputation Decline
00:05:18
Speaker
now. You know, with a lot of games like Sonic Forces, Generations and things like that, some are good.
00:05:25
Speaker
bait, others are like, why did you make me play this to you? But especially for this game, because like, do you remember like, when we're grown up, do you remember the landscape for Sonic at the time before this came out? So around like 2005 era? Yes, yeah, I remember it very well.
00:05:46
Speaker
When it was like, I don't know, would you say Sonic was on the peak of its popularity before the infamous Shadow the Hedgehog game came out? Yeah, I would actually agree with that. I think, and especially part of why I hate 06 so much is because I think it was the turning point from people being positive on Sonic to being negative on Sonic. Around that time, I remembered people being fairly charitable to heroes and even Shadow to an extent.
00:06:15
Speaker
But after 06 came out, everyone is just like, these games are irredeemable, they're garbage, don't even bother. And I think 06 retroactively made people hate those games. Do you know what it reminds me of? Have you ever seen that Simpsons clip? And this is something I always reference on the channel. I don't know why I find it so funny, but it seems kind of apt for this.
00:06:40
Speaker
Do you remember the episode of The Simpsons where I think it's the one where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and she releases the pig. She basically throws the barbecue down a hill and the pig starts flying and they're trying to catch it and throughout the whole thing Homer's yelling, it's still good, it's still good. It goes in the water and it's got all sludge on it and Homer's like, it's got a bit of sludge on it, it's still good, it's still good.
00:07:07
Speaker
And then it's sucked down to the sewer and it's like, it's so good. And Bart just has to say at the end, it's gone dad. And he's like, I know. That's honestly how I feel. Like between 2003 and maybe 2005, because I think 2003 was the... Oh no, it might have been earlier. Was it 2001 that was the remakes for Adventure?
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, 2001 was when Adventure 2 and stuff came to the GameCube and they had not yet made heroes. I mean, personally, I think that was the peak in terms of quality, but in terms of popularity, I think 06 was really the turning point.
00:07:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, I think that was the time where people just went, it's gone. Because I remember being online at the time and seeing all the hardcore fans be like, you know, try to defend it, but then when you actually play the game you're just like, this is not a good game.
00:08:03
Speaker
We will go into, but at the time though, it was starting to kind of peter out. I don't think it was meme status, but I think it was getting there. Even with Heroes, Heroes is by far not my favourite game personally, but I can appreciate what they were trying to do. It's competent in that game. Shadow the hedgehog though. I think that's when people started to raise eyebrows and think, what are you doing?
00:08:31
Speaker
That was definitely like a crack in the armor of Sonic's reputation. To me, Shadow was definitely a huge misstep, but there were definitely... I remember a lot of people being like, yeah, it's bad, but we still got other things on the horizon. People liked heroes generally, so it was kind of just a primer for what 06 would do for the franchise. That's kind of my memory of it, at least.
00:08:59
Speaker
it correct in saying that you, because I think I have asked you this in the last time we talked, but you didn't play Sonic 06 when it came out did you? I only ever played it at like a friend's house because he had like a 360 and he was like hey there's the multiplayer and you could play a silver and it was awful. I can just imagine that like being excited about playing it and then when you actually do you're like oh no
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah. Absolutely. It was like, I can't believe this is that bad. Oh, I honestly, I can only imagine the disappointment. Did you not even think, you know how you play like a bit of a game and it's bad and you think, oh maybe it's redeemable like elsewhere?
00:09:42
Speaker
yes if you know what i mean like you could say oh maybe it's like a good game you know and i've just played like the bad book oh yeah well uh to to kind of go on a bit of a sidetrack like i believe final fantasy 13's like director or something like that one of them when it only gets good like 20 hours in or something like that
00:10:01
Speaker
And that drew a lot of really heavy criticism because, you know, why would you want to put up with a game for 20 hours for it to start getting good? You kind of always think that, especially, you know, when you're a Sonic fan, you kind of learn that, you know, a lot of reviews
Disappointment with Sonic 06
00:10:16
Speaker
and things will be overly negative, at least to me. So, you know, I try and go into it with an open mind. Some games surprise me and some don't. This was definitely like a disaster to go.
00:10:27
Speaker
I mean, I've had friends like that, like not even for video games, but for like, I think it was like a TV series, one of my friends recommended, and they were like, oh, it's great, you know, it's a really good show. It gets good in like season like four or five or something like that.
00:10:43
Speaker
Who's going to stay? There's exceptions, of course. There are exceptions, but normally, if a show, you have to wait until it gets that good, halfway through it, you're like, no. And especially with Sonic as well. I mean, this game didn't get better throughout, but we've all come to that.
00:11:01
Speaker
Oh definitely. I have to admit this is like my gaming confession and I think I brought it up last time. Can't even remember when the PlayStation 3 came out but it was the only like not the only reason but this game was actually the reason why I bought a PlayStation 3. Yes oh yeah you did mention that last time. I feel like I'm in a confession booth right now.
00:11:23
Speaker
Forgive me shadow, for I am sorry. I've watched Sonic 06 on the PlayStation, which is not only like the worst version of Sonic 06, like genuinely, like the loading times are longer, it lags a lot more.
00:11:39
Speaker
And I'm looking to see this to actually went out and bought the 360 version for streaming. I'm going to say that. I bought it for professional reasons. Business, not pleasure. The reason I bought it was because everyone said it's a better version. Not by much, but it makes it a bit more bearable, I think. Yeah, it's one of those if you're going to have to go through it, at least do a slightly less irritating version.
00:12:05
Speaker
Oh god, absolutely. So I waited for it and I always remember like, I remember playing Shadow the Hedgehog in 2005 and being like, I was really excited to play it and then when I played it I was kind of like, is this it, you know? I wasn't, it wasn't my favourite game and especially with Heroes as well, I just didn't like that, you know, the kind of plasticky looking like, I really hate the models, let's see for those games. Like I,
00:12:30
Speaker
It sounds like a really painty thing to say, but I really hate the models. It's fair. I just, it's totally fair. I cannot like just, I can't, no, no, I'm saying, I'm not trying to be dramatic to be like, I hate them. I hate that, my job. But like, I really didn't like them.
00:12:46
Speaker
So when I saw Sonic 06, and you know how the promotional material for it, where it was just Sonic running through the woods, he was fighting these semi-realistic robots, which looked brilliant at the time. And you think, this is going to be so cool, we're going to play Sonic and everything. And then the game came out and you're like, well, my childhood is over. Anybody else?
00:13:08
Speaker
it's so funny because like the lead up 206 people were genuinely excited for it it did look quite like visually amazing and you know of course no no company's ever going to be like yeah this game isn't finished or you know we're not we're not going to put effort into this game so clearly everyone was like hey this sega says they're going to put in the effort and this game looks amazing let's you know let's give it a try you know a shot and
00:13:36
Speaker
we all know how that went because i think at this stage i think everybody knows that like it was a rush job yes oh yeah i was reading that development started in like late 2004 early 2005 ish you know they don't have an exact estimate to think that such a an ambitious idea for a game only had around a year to to be developed i mean even nowadays that is in
00:14:03
Speaker
a very big ask. And there was a lot of drama going on behind the scenes that we kind of understand, but I don't think fully understand. I don't know if we ever will. ALICE Unless there's like an expose. ALICE Yeah. Yeah. I've read a couple that try to be, but it's not as in detail as you would want, you know? ALICE Was it Modova like he said, she said kind of deal?
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. Sega's never going to comment on it, so they talk to a few developers and they'll say certain things, but there's no good timeline, there's no major proof of it. It's just a matter of trusting whoever says. I am admittedly very fascinated by the development history because there are quite a few different factors that went into making it such a dumpster fire.
00:14:50
Speaker
Obviously, this was the game where Yuji Naka, Sonic's programmer and main face, left. He left the company, he took people with him. It caused a huge shake up at Sega because there was no leadership for Sonic. They split the team even further because the Wii was underpowered, which
00:15:08
Speaker
would have meant a much longer development time for the game. So they scrapped the Wii version, but they still wanted something for the Wii, so they split their team again to make Sonic and the Secret Rings. So, like, all these different things were piling on, and of course, notoriously, Sega refused to extend the launch day for the game because they wanted it to be on Sonic's anniversary. It's just all those things culminated in this game.
00:15:33
Speaker
I honestly wonder if an extended deadline would have helped this game. It's tough for me because I don't know if you've heard of Project 06, which is a fan effort to make like a native PC version of the game and fix a lot of its problems. And I was saying this where I applaud that effort and I'm not one to tell them that they shouldn't do something, but like, to me, Sonic's
00:15:57
Speaker
you know, 06's problems are so deep in its design that to fix it, you would basically just be making an entirely new game. I just don't... I don't think any amount of development time could really fix that, you know? I don't know. Like, there are some. Like, this is a very ambitious game. Like, it's massive. Like, considering the other ones are very... I mean, maybe not Sonic Adventure 1, because that... Although it was small, it did have like a hub widdle and things.
00:16:27
Speaker
and had that kind of exploration environment whereas for this one it had like, I think I had three of them technically. Not very good ones, but I had three. It did
Ambitious Design Flaws
00:16:39
Speaker
have three. Well actually if I remember a couple of the levels were actually intended to be hubworld but they didn't have the time so they just made them levels. They did plan a lot.
00:16:49
Speaker
Speaking of this game, yeah, you and I have both played this and we have both completed it, and it is a game. I hate to say it, it's not the worst game I've ever played. I'm gonna get out of the way now, like it's not, because I feel as if a lot of people do riff on the game and say, oh this is the worst thing ever, and don't get me wrong, it's terrible.
00:17:08
Speaker
I wouldn't, like would you say it's one of the worst games you've ever played or would you say it's like kind of metal? I would still say it's one of the worst games I've played but I do think there are redeeming things about it and it's very weird for me to have to say that because it certainly does take certain inspirations from
00:17:26
Speaker
a bunch of different Sonic games, and I do recognize certain things, like the fact that they have hub worlds and stuff. It is, you know, it's very clear that they wanted to do a whole lot, so I applaud them for that, and the music is definitely amazing. I don't know, it's tough to say because it does function so horribly, and so many things were just so poorly thought out that I started to think of games that I would consider just worse.
00:17:52
Speaker
I mean, I suppose it's like a game that purposely is terrible, you know? Like, I'm thinking like, I don't know. Oh, what do you call that game of The Lourdes? That's like a road rig or something? I can't even remember. Or road to redemption or something. You know, like a game that's purposely broken. I mean, I think it was purposely broken in the sense that the developers probably knew that they didn't have the time to fix so many issues. So it's like, it's a miracle that that game runs at all.
00:18:22
Speaker
So I was just going to say it's held together with duct tape and prayer at times. And I mean some of the choices are just like... So sorry, before we actually get into it, will we talk about the story of this game?
Convoluted Storyline
00:18:35
Speaker
Because it is quite interesting because it does something very similar. So this is where I think the parallels to Sonic Adventure come in, where you've got three separate stories and they all kind of converge into one another.
00:18:49
Speaker
So you have to play the different perspectives. So of course you've got the three main characters. You've got Sonic, Shadow and a new character at the time called Silver the Hedgehog who for all you Dragon Ball fans out there is basically just like Trunks from Dragon Ball Z.
00:19:06
Speaker
It's like a hedgehog from the future. It's got psychic powers. It's a really cool idea that they brought in, but we'll talk about it. That's kind of my thoughts on it. Certain things like on paper sound like good ideas. Another hedgehog to coincide with a kind of more open style game.
00:19:26
Speaker
you know, basing it off of Dragon Ball, when, you know, even since Sonic 2, we've been taking ideas from Dragon Ball, and although, you know, and I have to say, one of the weirdest choices about the story was casting Blaze and, like, giving her an entirely new backstory and stuff. I feel like people don't really focus on that a whole lot, but that was a big thing for me back in the day, because I love the Rush games, when it's like, hey, here's Blaze, but she has nothing to do with anything like the Rush games.
00:19:53
Speaker
just want it's another decision that just blows my mind just seems like it's a game though that everything is going on you know it's almost like everything's going on but at the same time nothing's going on if you know what I mean like yeah sonic story like usually as I say for the adventure games there's usually like a kind of overarching plot where it's like oh we're gonna stop Eggman and we're gonna stop like whatever big bad guy is after whether it be like chaos the bio lizard you know whatever
00:20:22
Speaker
And this one, ironically enough, Sonic assumes the role of Mario where he has to save a princess about a grand total of three times. And it just gets so repetitive. It's like, oh, we rescued the princess. Oh, no, she's kidnapped. Oh, we rescued her again. Oh, she's kidnapped. Oh, no, we rescued her again. Oh, she got a free coffee. Ah, shit, she's kidnapped. You know, it's like it just kept going back and forth and you're like...
Awkward Character Interactions
00:20:47
Speaker
Oh, no, it's decaf. Yeah, exactly.
00:20:50
Speaker
like man you son of a bitch like usually the sonic story is the strongest one but whatever's not that really wasn't like it was the most neutral I would say yeah I guess I could agree to that
00:21:07
Speaker
Like, out of the three, I mean, like, it was kind of the standard go from point A to B, try and find Elise who is the final fantasy princess. And, sorry, I know that's like, I find that people say a lot about this game, but I honestly have, like, I'm gonna ask you something like, see the first time you saw Sonic beside Elise? What did you think? Or just beside any other human in this game?
00:21:34
Speaker
What did you think? Honestly, it was so surreal because it just looked so wrong, you know? The humans are all normally proportions.
00:21:44
Speaker
fairly realistic humans, and then there's just Sonic who looks like a Gmod character, like right next to us. It's still hard to wrap my mind around. I said this when I did the 6-hour stream of this, and I only got through Sonic's story. This is how long the game is. It is a slog, but the size of Sonic's head, I kept seeing throughout the playthrough. I was like,
00:22:13
Speaker
Look at the size of his head! Compared to Elisa, of course, as the quote-unquote love interest, which I know, like everybody. Everybody I think has rounded on that. But his head is huge. If she curled up into a ball, she would be the same size as his head. I guarantee it. And it's like, that just is weird. Even with the adventure games, maybe, you know,
00:22:36
Speaker
Well, the adventure games, they had kind of more cartoony proportions, the humans. So you could kind of see where the two met aesthetically. But 06 was really just, it felt like, hey, we have a totally different game and we need to shove Sonic in it.
Real-world Setting Comparisons
00:22:56
Speaker
It just did not look good.
00:22:57
Speaker
It honestly feels like that because the tone in this game as well, like, I mean, forget the design because it's like, it's a really, really, do you know what it reminds me of in the, like I said earlier, but have you ever seen those videos where it's like X character in Unity Engine?
00:23:15
Speaker
Oh yes yes. So it's like Mario in like a hyper-realistic field with you know like realistic deer and it looks so wrong because it's just Mario you know running about you like this and this looks weird but it's exactly that. Maybe not as detailed but you know it's like I mean the set pieces are really nice looking. It was for the time like Souliana which is like I think the Venice 2.0 really is just like
00:23:42
Speaker
It is alright. It's a nice set piece, but to put Sonic into it just seems, I don't know, seems kinda strange. Did you like it? Well the thing is, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of setting Sonic in sort of real world-ish locations. Sonic Adventure 2 was basically taking place in San Francisco.
00:24:04
Speaker
So, you know, it's not it's not like he can't be in real world places I think it's just you have to really work to make that that style all feel cohesive and They just they just didn't and I think I mean, I think that's more time constraints and other you know pressure Being placed, you know, I don't think it was malicious. But at the end of the day, it's still not pleasing. I
00:24:27
Speaker
Oh yeah, it honestly sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't even remember what you call them, but it's like, imagine you're playing with, like for anyone who hasn't played this, imagine you're playing with like Legos, or Lego, and then all of a sudden someone gets like, you know one of those big Duplo people that just shoves it in the middle of your city? It almost feels like that, it's just, something just sticks out, like all of the characters do actually.
00:24:50
Speaker
that's a pretty good comparison actually like i think the only one who doesn't stick out is maybe omega who's like a robot but it's like yeah you could shove him in any setting and they would still be like oh look at my bobble haters like no no no no no
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's such a weird choice and I mean I think because you know as with the story I think they just ran out of time and just had to push out what they had Which is such a shame, but I ultimately claim the blame on most on Sega Because Sega rigidly was just like no we are not giving you any more time whatsoever I think that did way more harm than than if you had missed Sonic's anniversary
00:25:36
Speaker
No, this game definitely needed more time in the oven. I don't think it would have solved all the problems, but I feel as if it would have solved maybe a little bit of them. Well, that's the funny thing. You don't do that kind of work because you think it'll be a bestseller if you just put it in a little more time. You do it for damage control.
00:25:55
Speaker
Like, you can write it off as, hey, we tried something and it didn't work, but don't worry, this isn't, you know, this isn't the way forward. But since they did just push ahead with this horrible thing, people, you know, turned to Sonic isn't good and we are not interested anymore. That does way more damage.
00:26:12
Speaker
Because, I mean, even with things like Big the Cat, you know, God bless his soul, and, you know, like, Shadow the Hedgehog did not do that well. I think it's still sold, but it wasn't really well received by people, I remember. I think it was a very solidly mixed reception, like some people loved it, some people hated it, other people just didn't know why Shadow the Hedgehog had a name 16.
00:26:39
Speaker
It was like driving down in a motorcycle. Nobody knew what to think of it. So already the fans had kind of a sour taste in their mouth. And yeah, when this game came out, I think I just killed any good faith that they had. Just completely. It's kind of what I meant earlier by Shadow was kind of like the crack in the armour and then this was like the final blow to it.
00:27:00
Speaker
Because if people had just been like, yeah, this game's okay, whatever, and then moved on, you could have still kept that reputation of, like, Sonic or good games and something you should be interested in. But with that, like, 1-2 punch of Shadow, then 0-6, people go, well, this isn't worth, you know, looking into anymore. I just... I think Sega's the most at fault for not trying to, you know, proactively control the damage there.
00:27:25
Speaker
It's not even a case of like it's an indie studio, because at this point, it was like the fifth... was it the fifteenth anniversary? Yes, fifteenth. Yeah, fifteenth. So it's fifteen years of Sonic, so they clearly know, you know, they've got a good couple of games under the belt at this point. They know Adventure has done well. So I think they were definitely, like, this is speculation, but it does seem like they were taking a lot of beats from the Adventure games.
00:27:52
Speaker
yeah I think what they did was just look at what worked and you know something they could quickly use because again time constraints I mean some of the choices they made in this were baffling like going back to the story quickly like as I said sonic story is very linear at the very beginning like I will admit the opening scene for this game is really well done you know it's like a festival that these people on this island or not island
00:28:19
Speaker
Well, is it an island? I mean, yeah. In Venice. Whatever Venice is, that's what this is. So, yeah. So, meanwhile in Sonic's version of Venice, they go to, or there's this festival going on which is supposed to, like, pay
00:28:36
Speaker
homage to like or pay honor to like this basically this fire spirit that's a bit of a dick that will kill them if they don't give them fire and then two seconds later Eggman comes in with them what my chat at the time when I was playing this referred to as Bipples
00:28:54
Speaker
Oh yes. Doctor Eggman for some reason undergoes the quote unquote the realistic treatment where he's got a very realistic face and you can see his eyes which I don't like at all. But then he's got like four massive gold buttons like his jacket but yeah if you ever want to see what a man looks like with pineapples yeah just please let me go sit.
00:29:22
Speaker
yeah it won't give you nightmares it really will and that's the thing though because he's like quite portly but he's got like the thin legs it's it's just a very it's a weird weird design it's like it's like in the early trying to design a human it's like here we go
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, well I always thought that at least like his face and like head area to me He always looked like one of those kind of like stereotypical movie critic types. Yeah, you know I always thought that was such a weird choice for Eggman. He kind of looks like it
00:29:55
Speaker
i could see him sipping coffee you know rejecting the latest uh script proposal or something like that it's just it did not strike me as heck man do you know what i mean see when you said that like it looks fine from like the shoulders up it's like the niggest catfish in the world doesn't it it really is it's like you know if it's not in this profile he's like you know just looking to mingle and then he ends up like i don't know bombing your whole day at destination with all these robots it's like what the
00:30:24
Speaker
And yeah, that's how the game started. It's very bombastic, it's very over the top. In a good way. And you get to see Sonic very, like, quite cheeky, I suppose, you know? Like, out the full of life. And honest to god, savour that moment. Like, for anyone who hasn't played this game, savour that moment because you're never gonna get that till the very end of the game, where Sonic emotes.
00:30:45
Speaker
because the rest of it's just like a dead-eyed Five Nights at Freddy's animatronic. Because of the rest of it, he's just like, oh no, the princess has gone. Bebop. It's like, Sonic, what are you doing? What are you doing with your life? Come on. Well, yeah. You could definitely tell they were trying to make some big dramatic storyline, especially because like, hey, Adventure 2, it had a pretty edgy storyline. So let's just amp that up.
00:31:14
Speaker
The other thing as well, which they never addressed throughout the whole game, and maybe that again was because they ran out of time, was Elise looks up at Sonic, and for a brief moment Sonic turns into Shadow Silver, and she says something like, oh you? It can't be. Oh no wait, they do later on.
00:31:31
Speaker
okay maybe okay no maybe I'm wrong there like when they go back in time I've always just clicked that I'm like did they address that did they see this is what this is what happens with the game because it introduces time travel much later on and it's like it just messes with the whole game and you're like if that goes back in time then that can't happen for this game and it's like I don't want to play this anymore
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's so difficult to follow the story because it's like wait so we're in the past but we're working towards like getting out of the future or something. Yeah, it's such a nightmare to have to like figure out what's going on.
Philosophical Scene with Silver
00:32:06
Speaker
Because as I said, the tone of this game is, and did you feel this way as well that the tone of the game is just all over the place? It is, absolutely. There are times where I see they're trying to do some like edgy dramatic thing and then there are other times where they want to be the fast, you know, haha, fun times, sonic, and it just doesn't mesh well.
00:32:28
Speaker
Because this is the same game, I'm not being dramatic here, I'm not kidding you guys who haven't played the game. There is literally a scene where a cartoon hedgehog debates the morality about taking another life. It is the most jarring thing!
00:32:43
Speaker
I think I've ever seen in a video. So basically, we'll save Shadow's story for last, or second last, but oh my god. Silver gets duped into going back to the past to stop what is referred to by this random hedgehog. This random hedgehog goes up to him and he's like, hey kid, you wanna stab this bad future? And you know, it's like,
00:33:10
Speaker
All we need is a van that says, like, free chaos emeralds or, you know, something like that at the side of it. And it's like, oh, there's nothing suspicious here. So he sends him back in time and he's like, oh, yeah, you have to kill this guy because I showed you, like, a gift of him standing in front of a fire.
00:33:28
Speaker
And he's like, oh, of course. So throughout the game, he tries to kill Sonic off. And then there's a scene when it gets stopped by Sonic's love interest, Amy Rose. And he's sent by the beach. And although the music is great, and I love him that the music is great, but he's sent like at this port and his friend Blaze comes over and she's like, oh, what's up? And he's like, is it right to take another life?
00:33:54
Speaker
for a good cause and you're like, I'm looking at my thing and I'm like, did I put in my copy of Heavy Rain into my PlayStation? I'm like, no, okay, no, this is still Sonic, okay. I've got no idea what this game is.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's so funny too because there are a lot of story elements that like aren't elaborated on again I think because of time constraints like like they they sometimes refer to the scepter as like a book and It's just it's clear that like they were trying to work on it and like pieces and they just didn't have the time to Sit down and like work it all out. If you heard the outtake that they left in the game
00:34:34
Speaker
yeah oh yes i listened to it myself when i streamed it oh brilliant there's it so yeah there's a there's actually a voice line that they left in the game where the voice actor like flubs his line and he's saying something to shadows like agent shadow they're going to the agent shadow and it just starts again and i think it was uh i think it was wave ocean right where he goes like how did the wave wave ocean wave
00:35:02
Speaker
hit the wave motion immediately and yeah like yeah like come on come on this is sega like i don't want to be like oh sega do better but this is a relatively big company that has like so many years of experience there was no excuse even with time constraints like there was no excuse that yeah that kind of thing got by like i could understand the rest of it like there's a lot in this game you think
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, there's no time to fix that. Like with the love story with Sonic, the philosophy with...
00:35:35
Speaker
him with Silver. And I mean, Shadow Story is about... Shadow Story, I would say, is probably the strongest. That's not saying a lot, but like... Yeah, yeah. I'd say it's the strongest. Yeah, because it deals with more... and I can't believe anyone's saying this a bit so in the game, but it deals with more complex ideas, like the idea of sacrifice and scapegoating things.
00:35:58
Speaker
Although it's a really weird thing because they just bring it out of nowhere and they're like, oh, because Shadow meets the same person, Mephiles, who is the secondary big bad in this game, who you don't really meet him in Sonic's story, but you meet him in Shadow and Silver's, you find out he's half of this horrible deity or something. See, this is the thing. It honestly is a Final Fantasy game.
00:36:24
Speaker
It's like a cross between the Final Fantasy X, Sonic the Hedgehog, and it's like someone writing this up saying, and then Shadow and Silver go to the past, and they see this deity called Solaris, but it actually splits in two, and Mephiles can actually change into Shadow, and the other ones are John Fire, Lizard, Cold, Iblis, and then Sonic gets the Gero and kisses her, and you're like,
00:36:53
Speaker
What is this? We could spend hours just dissecting how much that story is just like a weird fan fiction. It feels like one of those kids who's really energetic. He ate too many pixie sticks and he's just writing what comes to mind.
00:37:16
Speaker
people who used to make, I mean they still do, but considering the people who make the Sonic OCs and they make these really grand backstories about being half demon, half whatever. I honestly think that one of them was a Sega employee and somehow got some of his script in there.
00:37:35
Speaker
Like, even on Earth ones, they'd be like, do you know what would be cool? A lizard that shoots fire. And just like, you. I was like, you son of a bitch, I'm in. They just pissed it out. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever seen the Sonic shorts. Oh, yeah. There's one where it's like making an OC. And it's the guy giving advice. And he's like, this guy was made in Eggman's super secret volcano underwater lair in space.
00:38:03
Speaker
That's how it goes sometimes. Some of the designs are cool but it's a game that definitely goes on for far too long.
00:38:18
Speaker
Even with even with like shadow story like oh god there's just so much it's like basically the whole plot of shadow is shadow is a Lincoln Park character he is indeed crawling in his skin because his wounds from the last game will not heal neither will he's like box off or not box office but you know what i mean neither will he sails because my
00:38:40
Speaker
God, it's just depressing. It's like, oh yeah, in the future no one's going to care about you. It's like, oh no, but we'll care about you. The bat and the robot, and it's like, don't get me wrong, still, there are definitely three of the best characters in this game. Sonic is just a plunk of wood. Like, did you think, like after the cut scene at the beginning, did you think Sonic actually held his own in this game compared to the last ones?
00:39:04
Speaker
yeah definitely not he he he basically i mean a plank of wood is pretty accurate he basically just goes wherever and and you know wherever people tell him to like hey sonic you need to go here and do this and you just go there and on an ounce of personality because i think this is one of the first games where they got the new voice cast in so he was played by richard griffin was it or griffins um i know richard jason griffin sorry i don't know i said richard
00:39:34
Speaker
Jason Griffith. I'm gonna be honest, I think his shadow's really good. I really think his shadow's really good, but I think his sonic's awful. I'm sorry. I don't think it's awful, but it's not ideal. Like it got better. Okay, I'll say it this way. I think it got better, but at the very beginning, it was really, it was nothing. Yeah, it was kind of rough. Yeah. Especially like, um, sonic writers. That was...
00:39:58
Speaker
Oh yeah. That's the first time I think I've ever cringed a game and gone, oh no. Can I be honest? Yeah. So I still think he's way better than Roger Craigsmith is. I know that is a very hot take. I don't like Roger Craigsmith as Sonic. He just he really just sounds too like low pitched millennial. You know, I'm just going to quote memes 24 seven.
00:40:28
Speaker
I just can't stand him. So he announced that he was leaving and I was like, oh, finally we can get a new Sonic. And then he announced he was coming back. I was like, are you kidding me? And everyone was all excited. And I felt like I'm going to look like the biggest, you know,
00:40:45
Speaker
The biggest you know a hole for For saying that I don't like him, but I just don't I just don't think he sounds like Sonic I don't think he acts like Sonic. I think the only worse Voice for Sonic could have been what's his name from the movie Ben Ben Schwartz? Yeah, I I don't think Ben Schwartz is Sonic at all I think Griffith did a decent job, but he's definitely better as shadow. Yeah, and as Sonic definitely I
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to reverse the no-courage you hear and say I definitely prefer Jason Griffith with Shadow than whoever the hell the new guy is. Because the new guy sounds like what I sounded like when I was like 12 years old trying to quote Shadow to be like, oh no, the chaos emeralds. What the hell is that voice?
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's like my friend will send me, you know, like compilation clips of Sonic Boom, because I don't like Sonic Boom, the TV show either. And the, you know, he sent me one where it's like all of Shadow's voice lines in Sonic Boom. And his voice is just so like, like, it really sounds like they just got someone to be like, get out of my way, freak. Like, it just does not sound like Shadow at all.
00:41:57
Speaker
It's just like a parody, doesn't it? It really does. I can't believe we turned like Ranting and Sonic 06 into Roger Craig. I'm sure Roger Craig Smith is a great guy, and I know he does other great roles. I just don't think he's Sonic. Yeah, no, I get that. I totally get that. But for what it's worth, I did think the performances in 06 were at least semi-decent. Oh yeah.
00:42:25
Speaker
no shadow in particular oh yeah definitely although he does have a very anime moment at the end where it's like he takes off his which i did not know this was a thing until this game so apparently shadow has his style he has like rings around his wrists oh yes are called inhibitor rings i did not know this was a thing like genuinely i don't know if it's brought up in the call mates or it's uh actually a sonic x thing
00:42:50
Speaker
What is that? Yeah, yeah, like Sonic X kind of, well, sort of, it kind of implied that like they basically said in Sonic X that shadows rings like hold back his powers or whatever, but it's not really that obvious. They don't make a huge thing out of it. Yeah. So it's easy to forget.
Shadow's Power Inhibitor Rings
00:43:10
Speaker
I know it's something I say a little bit, it's like, you know that meme where it's like, forgive me, Sensei, I must go all out, just as once! And he takes off his rings and he just rams into the final boss and then it cuts to black and you're like, oh my god, you just killed Tony Soprano.
00:43:31
Speaker
That was a really weird side tangent. So as I said, Sonic's story is focusing on him saving the princess, which he does at the end after some hijinks and time travel and terrible, terrible gameplay. Which we will get onto in a second. Yeah, I was actually going to say I do have things to bring up about the gameplay.
00:43:57
Speaker
So you have that. Shadow is, as I said, trying to beat this new foe Mephiles. Which Mephiles after him was a cool character. Cool enough. He could have been expanded upon. Yeah, potential, yeah. It's just execution. Yeah, he's just kind of like, you're all going to die.
00:44:19
Speaker
And then he runs away with his mustache twirling and you're like, my god. Although I did like when he gets robocop'd by Omega. Well literally there's a scene where Omega is like, so the robot is shooting him, you know, with a cannon. Over and over again. And I can't remember but he's like, oh the world will turn on you. And you know, he rolls his arms back and his arms transforming to gatling guns and he just starts wasting them and it's like, Jesus Christ.
00:44:47
Speaker
What is this? RoboCop 2.0? It's like Murphy!
00:44:54
Speaker
I wanted to say too, I love that Mephiles is voiced by Dan Green. Oh, really? Yeah, he's voiced by Dan Green. And I love Dan Green, but I particularly knew him as as Yugi from Yu-Gi-Oh as well. Yeah, he is also Knuckles, at least in Sonic X. It's so funny because you can hear his like deep voice on this character.
00:45:18
Speaker
and you think it could be cool if they had written something better. Yeah, it's all very kind of generic. The writing in this as well. I was watching a video just to kind of recap on what happens in the game, and there is one particular scene where someone pointed this out, and I totally agree with them, it's when Sonic gets sent to the future, trust me it makes sense in context, and
00:45:46
Speaker
It gets into Future and he meets Shadow and they're like chatting away with one another and they're basically racing.
00:45:52
Speaker
to, I don't know where I think, the centre of a volcano because they want the game to end. Sonic like waves his big sausage finger and he says, don't be late, and Shadow of course reciprocates and he goes, same to you. It sounds like something like a child would say in the playground, you know? It doesn't sound like, because if you look in Sonic Adventure 2, for example, when they've got the banter of the
00:46:20
Speaker
granted the audio mixing was terrible for that. I mean, you brought it up in your stream the other day of. You're comparing yourself to me. You're not even good enough to be, but I'll make you admit that's worked. And it overlaps. But at least that's memorable. Whereas that's like, can you imagine buying a Sonic the Hedgehog t-shirt and it just says, don't be late, same to you.
00:46:47
Speaker
You know, no kid is going to buy that. Oh, certainly not. It really reads like they couldn't think of anything better. Just like, hey, don't be late. And then they're like, oh, what should he say? I don't know. Same to you. Whatever. Like, it just really felt like they had nothing for him. Do you think Shadow just went home that day and was just like, damn it. It's like, I could have came up with a bit of late. Like, that's my line. Yeah, he's in like the shower and he's thinking like,
00:47:15
Speaker
Oh, if I had just said this, that would have been so much better. So at the very end, at the most inappropriate moment, he's like, hey, that's my life. Oh, he's dead. Oh, oh, no. He's not breathing. So, yeah, that's what happens in Shadow's story. Silver travels back in time, defeats Frieza, tries to kill Sonic. Doesn't work. Then ends up seeing the error of his ways. His friend gets like
00:47:45
Speaker
obliterated because, and I quote, so they tried to seal Iblis in the Chaos Emeralds, you know, for everything to do with the magical gems that are in this game. It doesn't work for some reason, so Blaze is like, oh I'm Royal Blood, I'll do it, and I remember sitting there for the first time being like, you have barely spoken several words in this game, and the words you have spoke amount to, I don't know if you should kill someone. That blue hedgehog!
00:48:13
Speaker
And my personal favourite, oh look at Wave Ocean. There's been no character building for her in this game. And then at the end she's like, oh I'm royalty. And I'm like, okay, you know what, I want the game to end. I'll take it. Just see you later.
Blaze's Role and Royalty
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, see the funny thing part, you know, when I was saying earlier how like nobody really goes over the fact that Blaze was just totally ripped out from from Rush for this. I think Blaze was actually kind of an interesting character in Rush. So to have that ripped away only to be replaced with that.
00:48:47
Speaker
It made me so mad back in the day. And it's such a shame though, because with Blaze and Silver as well, they're interesting characters, but it's just a shame that this is their debut game. Yeah, exactly. I'm kinda glad that they got re-introduced into the canon.
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah, with generations. Yeah. What was the other one? Forces. Which, although it wasn't the best game, at least they brought him back. Which I thought, okay, that's cool. They're not like brushing him under the carpet or anything. I don't know how he's there or why. He just is.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah, he's just there. Yeah. I thought you died. Nope. He's just there. Okay, fair does. Which, of course, leads us onto the last story, where this is the only game that I can think of off the top of my head where Sonic actually dies. I think the closest we came to for that kind of thing was Adventure 2, where Sonic nearly gets blown up and Shadow kind of falls to his death, but not really. Yeah, like he...
00:49:47
Speaker
He uses chaos control with the fake emerald to get out of the exploding pod. I think that's the closest I'm comfortable with in terms of killing off Sonic. Yeah, whereas in this game they actually kill him off.
Criticized Storytelling Moments
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah, he's walking in a field with his quote unquote girlfriend, and Mephiles comes out of nowhere and is just like, I'm a stab you, and he stabs him in the back.
00:50:09
Speaker
And I was laughing because I actually think, and I could be wrong here, but do you remember the Sonic Direct they just had there for the therapy? Yes, the central, yeah. Do you remember how they had different scenes in the background from the different games? I'm pretty sure that one of the scenes they chose, especially from Sonic OS X, you'd think they were just brushed onto the carpet, but one of the scenes they chose was Sonic getting impaled.
00:50:38
Speaker
of all the scenes, why would you choose that?" You know, I need to go back and watch that. I need to see if that's really the case. Yeah, like maybe it was a Photoshop, I don't know, but if it wasn't, that is hilarious. That is hilarious. That is one of the worst. And yeah, because of that, and this is a plot point that we actually haven't touched on, is the fact that the fire lizard, which destroyed silvers like timeline,
00:51:02
Speaker
is trapped inside Elise, who if she cries, and they never define this, it's a bit like the, not the Furby, the Gremlins, that's it, the Gremlin-like paradox, where they say you can't feed them after midnight, and it's like, well what constitutes as like past midnight and everything? It's like that, it's like what constitutes? What if she stubs her toe? What if she cuts herself? You know, like what if she blinks? What if she gets like dust in a ride? Does that count? You know?
00:51:30
Speaker
they never say like oh if you feel strong emotions you know like it is nothing like they literally say like word for word to say don't cry Elise and you know it's like yeah that's all they say that's all they're giving us that is the bone on the on the edge of another like rubbish bone like
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's so it feels like so many things were just arbitrarily Decided on you know, we're gonna have at least you know, we're gonna have this plot point where at least can't cry But we're not really gonna give it any time or any any other Supporting context. It's just here you go Here one death, please. Thank you
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah. Also, I wanted to say too, since you brought up Sonic Central, the Sonic Symphony that they did on like the 28th or whatever. So they were doing all the the medleys of the different games. When they did each game, they would have like gameplay in the, you know, in like a projector in the background. And it was always funny to me because they would do, you know, Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 and, you know, they move throughout the ages and they're showing all the gameplay and then they get to 06 and it's pure almost purely like
00:52:40
Speaker
the the story cutscenes and there's one shot where they are just standing and slowly on and the camera kind of like pans around it and I was like wow they they were so not confident in showing anything from this game that they focus solely on the cutscenes and the characters standing still that's amazing and I mean considering like it's like is that bad that they even write con the game at the very end
00:53:06
Speaker
but it's like once you defeat like yeah spoiler sonic doesn't actually die but it's like it well it does die but he doesn't he gets brought back to life by a magical kiss or something yeah like some they all like channel their power into it's the power of a kiss
00:53:23
Speaker
I can't even remember who sang that, but it's the power of love that essentially brings him back. Many people have ranted on this, but it's the weird kiss and things. People actually say that they're like, oh, it should have been some random animal. Or even they may. But the more I think about it, the more I think, do you think that would have made any difference?
00:53:47
Speaker
Well, I don't know. It would have made some difference. At least to me, it's like the image of a human girl kissing Sonic was so spread around and so reviled that I think if it was switched to Amy, like so much of that, you know, awareness would have been gone. So at least in that sense, it would have made a difference. Story-wise, I mean. Because I feel like that's the main scene that everybody rants on.
00:54:17
Speaker
Oh yeah. For good reason. I am not going to die on that hill. I'll leave someone else to die on that hill but it is not going to be me. There's just a lot of weird decisions and it definitely would have. Maybe a rewrite in some cases or some bits would have been beneficial. Because I'm not saying they're trying to write the next.
00:54:39
Speaker
Citizen Kane or anything which I know is like a thing I always bring up but it's like you know they're not trying to like make like the next Shakespeare or anything but at the same time it's like make a cohesive story, please! I beg you sega please! Yeah well that's the thing about sonic writing it's like it doesn't have to be some high literary ambition type thing it just you just need like Saturday morning cartoon level writing it's not that difficult but I mean you get like
00:55:07
Speaker
you get such a combination throughout the story you know you get people who are like you know like Sonic being cheeky and like you know tapping the robot you know with his toe and that's how he falls off and you know he's like smiling and everything and that's where it ends and as I said you get the animatronic Sonic
00:55:26
Speaker
play somebody like oh god this is going to be one of those games and I mean you go from like you know is it like fun oh let's run through the ocean to oh no Eggman's gonna bomb a city of like civilians unless the princess comes out which is actually a scene. I think that's the third time Elise gets kidnapped and it is. Elise also gets killed, she gets blown up with Eggman
00:55:52
Speaker
which again is another unintentionally hilarious scene with Jason Griffith yelling Elise at the top of his voice. But he doesn't say it like someone's a luster, true love. He goes, Elise! And then he slams his massive meat fist into the ground and you think, this game is like this.
00:56:15
Speaker
Oh man. Yeah. Disaster. But speaking of a disaster, I know we've been holding off on this, but why don't we go on to the gameplay because... Yes. I've got some things to say about the gameplay.
Confusing Levels
00:56:29
Speaker
I'm going to let you lead on because I've reacted about the story so cool.
00:56:34
Speaker
No, you're fine. As I've said before, I didn't play 06 when it launched outside of that multiplayer with my friend. And I had seen enough... I had basically seen everything about the game by the time I did end up playing it, because I played it on stream. I think the one thing that I never really fully grasped about the gameplay, I've never gotten lost in a Sonic state before.
00:56:58
Speaker
But this game, it's like I could be going around in circles and not realize it. And so many different, like, is that the way I'm supposed to do it? Like, you know, should I should I have done something else? So many moments like that. I don't think like watching videos does that justice because if somebody knows where they're going, it doesn't look that bad.
00:57:18
Speaker
but if you if you don't know where you're going like especially I remember a uh a level where it's like mine ruin style and you have to like swing between vines and uh there's like water all around that'll kill you and uh I remembered getting so lost in that stage because everything looked the same and it felt like every path kind of just led in a circle and I
00:57:42
Speaker
I forget exactly how I got out. I think I took one specific path that would take me to the end. But I never really realized it when watching the videos, but I was like, this game is so confusingly laid out. These levels don't feel like levels. They just kind of feel like environments you walk through, which I know sounds like a
00:58:02
Speaker
no duh kind of statement but it just really doesn't feel like they considered you know trying to tell the player where to go because i'm just thinking and i know i keep making like examples of or like comparisons between this and sonic adventure but if you compare like the sonic adventure hop world like see when you're a kid don't get me wrong it's like they're massive and you can get lost in them but yeah like when you play them later on i mean with the exception of the forest that's just horrible
00:58:29
Speaker
Oh yeah, the forest is awful. Yeah, we don't talk about Mystic Ruins Forest. I'm moving on. With the exception of that, the majority of them are more or less like you can kind of tell what's what. It's all laid out and even if you do get lost, there's hints. You can technically talk to the townspeople, but who's going to talk?
00:58:52
Speaker
Yeah, I was about to say, who's going to want to talk to any of the NPCs in this game, having seen the cutscene writing? And can I just say the first, you get the opening, as I said, you've got the opening of this game that's very bombastic over the top. It's like, wow, this is amazing. And then you start with a side mission in this game. You don't even start with like, you know, you're in Wave Ocean, you're in, like, because I remember with Adventure, so
00:59:21
Speaker
going back to the adventure example. Adventure 1, you start off fighting chaos, and then the second bit, you go to a cutscene and then immediately guide you towards the beach where you go through your first level. So it sets the tone, it sets up the main villain, it does really well. For Adventure 2, you're basically thrusted, like you're thrown off of a moving helicopter, and you slide down, not San Francisco, and everything
00:59:50
Speaker
And you know, and then you get chased by a giant truck, it's like, it's all, you know, cylinder firing. For this game, they show you a cutscene, and then, like, and people have made this comparison, but it's so true, it's like Superman 64, I think it was a game, where you have to run through hoops, and that's it. You have to run through hoops to earn money to use the light speed dash, and it's just ridiculous.
Frustrating Speed Sections
01:00:15
Speaker
yeah to get to wave ocean yeah and do you know what the worst part of that is which i honestly have nightmares thinking about it so like as i was saying before the levels for me personally i feel as if they're too long would you say yeah they are pretty long they could take you about half an hour to 45 minutes sometimes not all of them like some of them are about 15 to 20 but that's still far too long yeah that's still a lot like
01:00:43
Speaker
like considering the classics had like a 10 minute time limit yeah you know like there's one particular one in silver stage where i think you have to spend like a good 15 to 20 minutes pushing like this ball to try and get it into like this hole but oh
01:01:02
Speaker
Oh, I blocked it out of my memory. It is infamous. Because every time you hit it, it's got a counter on it and you have to like curve it round too and you have to avoid other holes for it to roll down. But if you take too much time like lining up your shot, the counter actually goes down and you've only got nine like hits on it and then after nine hits that's it.
01:01:27
Speaker
And Silver runs like he's running in Trico, so that doesn't help. So it's like horrible things like that. Yeah, it's funny because when I was playing through them, I mean it was basically like golf, mini golf.
01:01:43
Speaker
And I think that was the most angry I ever got at the stages. I certainly got angry at stages, but having to do the silver ones over and over because I couldn't find any way to guide in the amount of hits that they asked.
01:02:01
Speaker
And it also didn't help that sometimes it would like double hit. So I would lose, I would lose even more hits. Oh, I was so frustrated by that. I blocked that out of my memory because I got so upset. That is probably the longest one.
01:02:19
Speaker
But I was thinking, the reason I brought it up was because imagine you're a child, like I know you and I have played this, but imagine you're a child playing this, right? And Sonic's level is most of his levels are basically split into two parts. They're split into a normal one and then they're split into like a max speed section.
01:02:42
Speaker
yes oh yeah i was gonna bring those on which yeah which long story short they're essentially just like they're like what the boost formula in the new games would have been if you couldn't control it it's like you're constantly going like really fast you cannot control it you can not like guy you can guide yourself but it's very temperamental and tricky yes so oh yeah
01:03:04
Speaker
Nobody really, as far as I remember, no one really expected that. I think I was advertised, but no one expected how bad it was going to be. So you spend about 10-15 minutes in the first part of the game actually getting through Wave Ocean. Maybe less, maybe I'm too harsh on the first level, but you spend a considerable amount of time. You get to the max speed section, let's say you're taking off guard so you keep getting killed, because if you hit something, you still keep going. It's not like you can slow down, you can't
01:03:34
Speaker
like, change of velocity, you can't do anything like that. Like, that would make sense. And there's also some bits where even if you're running round a hoop, or like a spiral correctly, if you go in the wrong trajectory, yeah, you go flying off. Like, you can't guide yourself. It's absolutely horrible. And the reason they bring it up is just because imagine you go through that and you die, and you think, well, no problem. You know, it's a bit of a pain, but I guess I'll have to start wave ocean again. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:04:03
Speaker
Oh no, no, no. You don't start off at Wave Ocean. You start off at the very beginning of the game. Because the way the saves work, I think it automatically saves after every level.
01:04:22
Speaker
that's done oh it's awful so it's like it's it's so yeah you have to go through the intro you have to do the rings again you have to yeah do the light speed that it's yeah sorry that yeah no no it's fine it the the safe system is definitely a big criticism too they they did not think that through at all
01:04:43
Speaker
I was gonna say about those, I think they were called like mock speed sections. For how poorly implemented they are, they, I mean, they were. I do think they have potential, and especially having been through games like Unleashed and Generations now where boost formula, you know, kind of works. I think those sections could have been actually pretty, you know, pretty fun, but they would have needed to adjust a bunch of things to get it to that point. And
01:05:10
Speaker
I got really frustrated at the one in Crisis City, where that one is a nightmare. What I realized really made it awful was once you get hit, you lose control. They make you go through that whole animation of Sonic spinning out.
01:05:27
Speaker
but they still move you forward because you're still moving at that speed. So if you get hit on an obstacle and you are on a certain trajectory, you're not able to correct yourself in time to get hit again, and by then you're likely flying off the stage. Little things like that, like having more air control and not taking control away from the player when you get hit,
01:05:54
Speaker
like i think could have made those sections decent they just made it the way it is you know i think the worst part about the crisis city one is the fact that the level itself is already split up into like two parts i think before the max speed section like you have to go through the city um which is like a two and a half in itself and then you have to go through another part of it um like in a tornado where you make sure you don't fall off and then the tornado is carrying a car
01:06:20
Speaker
oh yeah that tornado's carrying a car and you're like sonnet, sonnet shut off please just turn yourself off just probably. Yeah this is the fifth time i've heard this. Oh and then yeah you get to the max speed section and they not only do they throw everything at you like there's pipes on the road there are boxes like some kind of weird 80s action film there's holes at the side of the road which i did fall through like the barriers aren't there
01:06:46
Speaker
And do you know what they do which really, like this is the icing on top of the cake is when they shift the camera so you're like holding like left and right and then it flips so like you're pulling Sonic to like a way that you don't want to go you're like oh no no no no no
01:07:01
Speaker
So if you know the level, I wouldn't say easily avoid it. I'm not going to say that at all. But you know what's going on or what's going to happen. But for first time players, can you imagine having one life there and then having to do all of that again? Oh yeah. Oh my god.
01:07:18
Speaker
I mean, I had to redo that when I streamed the games because I kept dying to that section and especially I remembered a section where it did that camera flip and it does so suddenly and puts you in immediate danger so you don't have time to get adjusted to it.
01:07:35
Speaker
I remembered a scene where it did that flip, and I was already kind of on the edge of the road, and then it did the flip and I veered off, just because I was trying to get more center. Like, I was running forward and I went, okay, I need to get away from the edge, let me hold right to get more center, but then it flipped, and it made me veer right off the side, and I was so mad. Oh, I can imagine. I own this lake.
01:08:04
Speaker
because I've done that. It honestly does. It makes you sweaty when you're just like, oh my god, I've got no lives left. I've got to get through this. Otherwise, I have to play like 15 to 20 minutes of this game again. And you're like, I don't want to do this. Please don't make me do this. I don't want to do this. Please don't make me do this. I'm begging you.
01:08:27
Speaker
It keeps all your momentum so you have no control. Like if you make a slightly angled jump you're heading pretty far to that angle. So like I jumped off the map so many times. And if you get trapped under anything that's it. Because there's one later on we have to run after a train which is one of the most ridiculous levels. The reason I say this is because like you have to run between like there's a bit we have to run down this hill but then there's like a gap in between so you jump across
01:08:56
Speaker
But as you said, because you jump across like the momentum still carries you, there's like trains going across at the same time. And you're guaranteed, because the jumping's terrible, you're guaranteed to hit one of them, like going across, whether it be like one of the carriages, and you just face through it and you're like, oh, this is just murder, because you can't like, hold between them in any graceful way. You have to just jump and you're like, I must go.
01:09:20
Speaker
My head trunks beat me, kind of thing. And then when you get to the end of that, oh god, I think I've posted a clip of this before.
01:09:31
Speaker
have I shown you that where I got to the end of it and basically for most of the max speed sections you hit like the goal ring and that's it the level ends and it does the animation and that's it perfectly fine lovely rendition there Sega phoned me up for the next symphony
01:09:50
Speaker
yeah yeah absolutely yeah but um for this one it's like if you don't hit the pads because the ring suddenly appears above i think the train but if you miss it or like you hit the train you do like the spinning out motion so it's like you you jump into it and it's just like oh i thought oh god i've i've completely messed this up and then two seconds later it comes up with the animation of
01:10:32
Speaker
You know, also, not quite for the Mach Speed sections, but I do, I, what I always found baffling to about 06 was that they made a pretty big emphasis on, like, drivable vehicles. And I don't know why Sega would have thought that, because everyone hates
01:10:39
Speaker
D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-
01:10:50
Speaker
hated those sections in shadow where you have to like drive a car or drive whatever and so like there's there's like the hover car that you have to drive when you're shadow or or just uh the the bike that you have to drive it's a nightmare and who
01:11:06
Speaker
who at Sega said like, well this went so well the first time we need to do it the
Poorly Designed Vehicle Sections
01:11:11
Speaker
second time. Well they're terrible. They're absolutely horrific to drive. Yeah. And I'm not even saying this as like, you know when you get those video game critics that like say, oh this game handles horribly. Ha ha ha. No genuinely. Right. I would swear on somebody's life.
01:11:30
Speaker
Genuinely, this is one of the worst, like, I remember playing the, so when I did like my six hour stream, I think I'd finished Sonic's story in about five hours maybe, or just over that. So I was like, okay, I'll do a bit of shadows, you know, just to fill out the time. So I started Shadow's Story, and I think I got to the, I think it was kind of valid that I got to. And there's a particular scene where you have to drive the hover car, or the hover, whatever it is.
01:11:57
Speaker
And you actually have to drive it over the water. For some reason, some sadist at Sega was like, do you know what would make this harder? See if we had boxes bobbing up and down, you know, but they don't bob up and down. They're programmed as if they're like, they just pop out of nowhere and then dive back down again. And then you're like, you absolute dicks.
01:12:15
Speaker
they like and they pop up and they like clip you so you roll over and you end up going through or yeah oh god there was another one i had where like i was driving through and what they also did was they crumble like these towers above you yes and if you get even clipped or if a rock looks at you the wrong way that's it they're just like crumbles on you you die immediately you have to do it again i was like oh this is this is horrific um yeah
01:12:42
Speaker
I was going to make mention of how the hovercar, what is particularly frustrating is that it's so lightweight and it gets flung around a lot, but you have to keep level with the water, otherwise you just no-clip through the water and die. I'm designed as well. Yeah, yeah. It does not discriminate.
01:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, you just no clip. And this is a thing though, because they don't, like, in the nicest way possible, they do not give you an option not to use them. Like, because Shadow doesn't run as fast, you know, it's like, you can't catch up with the train and the radical, is it radical train?
01:13:22
Speaker
I don't remember to be honest with you. Radical whatever. Yeah, radical level. Like you have to use the motorbike which handles terribly. There's actually a side mission I absolutely love. I think it's just the dumbest thing ever. You talk to a SWAT guy from GUM, which is like the government organisation, and they're like, Asian shadow.
01:13:45
Speaker
laughing just thinking about it because it's like Asian shadow we found these you know like rogues who have stolen something it's like can you drive after them and they say in this place that like correct me if I'm wrong but I don't I genuinely don't think this is ever in the game again like this location you have to drive down the highway and shoot at cars and it's like
01:14:09
Speaker
yeah like it's i can't it's like oh i can't even remember what bit of the game it's in i'll need to send you like the because i think i've got it my compilation video but it's like yeah there's definitely a scene where it's like the gun agent is just like agent shadow we have to stop these robbers or
01:14:24
Speaker
I don't even know, they have to stop someone. So you drive down this highway and you shoot rockets at these cars to blow them up. And it's literally the only point of that game when they have something like that. And you're like, okay, someone at Sega just went, you know what, I'm all in. Let's sometimes sneak this into the game, I'm sure. No one will play it.
01:14:47
Speaker
and then years later like someone does play it you're like this is this is ridiculous because nothing's like that textured it looks like you you were saying earlier like Sonic looks like a gmod model like Plopton this honestly feels like one of those like either custom gmod ones so you know the custom like gta mods and they just have like a track above the city that's what it feels like because it's i don't know where it is because it's like oh it's the road leading out to soyana it's like
01:15:14
Speaker
where it's half water half city yeah a half forest it's like this is oh this is ridiculous yeah i don't think i've ever done that side quest you'll have to send it to me because i don't think i can remember that oh i will be did you just yeah just just to prove it to be like yes this actually did exist i'm not going mad and everyone's like that's nice that's it that's nice
01:15:37
Speaker
It's like, we'll take a seat in the corners. Like, I swear it did happen. It's just a jarring. But then you get other characters who are just the weirdest. There was a guy who I pointed at my stream. I don't know if you saw him. He was like the station attendant. And he's got the biggest hat in the world. Maybe. Ring the bell. It's the one where you have to get into the... Again, it's the Sonic's version of chasing the train. But you have to get past the guy.
01:16:06
Speaker
oh okay i think i remember this we have to get like the bounce bracelet and everything but there's a guy he stole yeah yeah and he does the e which is what everyone says they do the e yeah yeah and he's got this massive heart and i've actually i think i've actually got that much
01:16:23
Speaker
at least the point of recording this I do. And it's literally how it starts. It's just me going, oh my god. It's just like, look at that. Because I did prom it. I was like, if I could get the cosplay of that, I totally would. I'm not even that into cosplay, but see if I could find that hat, I would go and I would just be like, you know what?
01:16:44
Speaker
glorious hat. And it reminds me of, do you remember the, oh god, is it the Fairly Odd parents that has the guy with the big hat? Or is that something else? Oh, Doug Dimmidome? Doug Dimmidome, that's the one. Yes, yeah. It's not the same style of a hat, but it's as tall as it is. It's like, oh my god, this is just insane. But anyway, Sonic, that's the side. I mean, there's also Sonic Man, which, did you ever agree with him? Yeah, Sonic Man is such a weird concept.
01:17:12
Speaker
I did do a couple of the races for him. It's just so bizarre. It feels like a joke, but then it doesn't seem like it is. I don't know how to describe it. Like you don't know whether it's a joke or means spin it to be like... Yeah.
01:17:28
Speaker
That's just what we think of you. Yeah. Well, it's like it's a man who dresses exactly like Sonic or, you know, tries to like dress up as Sonic and be like, hey, I can I can outrace you. But he's not he's not like that challenging. So it feels like it feels like they're trying to make a joke about how like, yeah, people try and imitate Sonic, but they're not actually Sonic.
01:17:53
Speaker
But then like they have him in enough areas and like, you know, enough of the side quests that it feels like they're it's like a genuine thing they're trying to push. So I never understood if he was meant to be like a comedic thing or if they were trying to make him serious.
01:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that too. Exactly. He has the arms behind his back, and he's like, this is weird. This is a weird thing. He's got a t-shirt on that's like off Sonic, but it's like, you know the symbol from Sonic, like the very first Sonic game? Yes. Like kind of on his t-shirt, and he's like, I'm Sonic, man. You're just a poser. And I'm looking at Sonic, and I know like the joke's been made, but you look at Sonic, you look at him, and you think, on the one hand, how stupid can you be? But on the other hand,
01:18:39
Speaker
Yeah, the first time I saw that sonic, like, aye.
01:18:43
Speaker
I would say the same, you're not Sonic. I think a lot of people said that. Speaking of Sonic as well, there's also the James system, which was never properly implemented.
Sonic's Unnecessary Power-ups
01:18:55
Speaker
It really does feel like an RPG in certain ways where it's like, oh, if I can buy upgrades and get new powers and stuff, but it ultimately just ends up being kind of a get this to progress forward.
01:19:11
Speaker
You can get other like, so this is actually something they wrote in the manual, where you get like a bar at the bottom of the screen, but you don't quite know what it's for. And for Silver and Shadows, like for Shadow he has like chaos, like spears and things like that, like projectiles he throws from his hands and like things he can power himself up with and the bar goes down.
01:19:34
Speaker
So that was programmed right, you know, big tick for Silva. That bars for his psychokinesis power so he can like flow, he can throw things, you know, and that goes down as well. So again, tick, big point. For some accident, program it to go down and I don't know why and you get really
01:19:54
Speaker
weird upgrade that I genuinely don't understand. You get the ones you need in the game, like you get the bounce bracelet, you get the sliding, you get the light speed dash, that's the one. For the other ones, like the optional ones, you get one that's like a tornado kick, which I don't think anyone used.
01:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, you get one to slow time, you get one that shrinks on it, but because he's shrunk down he can jump infinitely. Which I think is why you don't see baby hedgehogs as much. But I think that's probably why they're born tiny and they just jump away. Because I don't get the parallels, I genuinely don't. Like why they thought a small hedgehog can jump infinitely.
01:20:38
Speaker
I mean technically the bar was supposed to go down, but even still you're just like, how? Why? There's one you throw, like you go into a first person mode and you throw like a gem and you get sucked to the James position. I'll be honest, I didn't use any of like this. I did buy it all because I had like the rings.
01:20:55
Speaker
I really just never, I was like, none of this helps me in anything. I never really took too close a look at it, but yeah, all the powers are just so superfluous. The ones you don't need, essentially. It's like once you can play the game and not touch them,
Silver's Unique Development History
01:21:11
Speaker
really.
01:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, we've kind of been talking mostly about like Sonic and Shadow, but I will kind of want to bring up Silver. Yeah, because his sections in particular. So 06 also was not originally planned to be a Sonic game. And I was reading up on this before the podcast. So after their work on Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg.
01:21:30
Speaker
uh sonic team yeah yeah sonic team was like we need another new new game like this and uh i forget who now oh goodness i did look it up but this guy uh he was building a prototype for a physics-based game and he i think
01:21:46
Speaker
I think he may have been like the director for a while where he was building this prototype and then they formed a group to celebrate Sonic's 15th anniversary and then brought him on and he was like, hey, I have this, let's use this. And that ended up being silver. It's weird in Sonic 06 because it's well implemented enough that you can definitely tell that there was a strange amount of effort put into it. It doesn't work well enough that it's fun to play. So it's this weird middle ground for me.
01:22:15
Speaker
who actually reminds me of it's like a better attempt to what they were trying with Big the Cat you know how they were trying to like show off them yeah like like i do have a point here i'm not just comparing silver to Big the Cat yeah yeah but like you know how they were trying to show off like sega bass fishing and they thought yes like as you said in the last time last time you were on there was like they were trying to get people to buy sega bass fishing it was like
01:22:39
Speaker
How do we do
Physics Engine Potentials and Flaws
01:22:40
Speaker
that? Oh, we showed the physics and we showed the gameplay of it through Big the Cat. It's like, maybe they weren't selling anything this time, but it almost feels as if they were trying to show off the physics and things in this game, which sometimes it works, sometimes it's very temperamental like the ball, as we said, trying to get on. It is kind of interesting what they attempted.
01:23:01
Speaker
That's the thing you can tell that they really planned for it And I think part of that is because a lot of the prototyping had been done So they probably already leaned into it because it had you know there was something there you know the difference between like big and Silver is that like big was meant to actually promote something that already kind of existed I think silver was more just a showcase of like hey look what we can do
01:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, evidently not much. Well, it was the, was it not the Havok engine that this game was, rather? Yes. Yeah, which I always remember them really hammering at that point, being like, oh it's the Havok engine, look at the Havok engine, and that's the only reason I know about the Havok engine.
01:23:42
Speaker
No, sorry, it was either a havoc engine or it was a hedgehog engine. It was something like that. I know havoc was used to power the physics at least. Yeah. Because they did make a big deal about the havoc engine. Yeah. But I forget when exactly the hedgehog engine was made now. I should have looked that up before. Oh no.
01:24:02
Speaker
But it's like, nobody looked down at us. Bad or are you? Yeah, it's good to know. Because I don't want to say anything incorrect. I mean, maybe I already have, but I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. I mean, you're going to piss off all five of the Sonic 06 fans left. Hopefully they're not going to hear this.
01:24:30
Speaker
If they do, you can can't chase Super Shadow 271, or I'm joking.
Satisfying Yet Frustrating Gameplay
01:24:37
Speaker
But like the physics, when it worked, it was halfway satisfying to use. Like it was grabbing someone's rocket and then throwing it back at them. That was fun, but it felt like half the time it wouldn't work.
01:24:50
Speaker
like you would grab a rocket and they would just throw it somewhere else or you'd try and pick up something but you end up picking up the like five boxes next to it. It just all felt very simultaneously satisfying and unsatisfying to use.
01:25:05
Speaker
I think the worst part of it was that there was an ability where you could actually grab the enemy, and obviously from the beginning of the game they didn't want to make it too easy. Well, no, too easy, yeah. So you had to basically stun them first, and later on in the game you get a ground pound move, where you do a superhero landing,
01:25:25
Speaker
stand-down and everything and that's cool. It works. Before the beginning though, you have to walk up to the enemy, pimp-slap it, I'm not even joking, backhand a fire lizard and he lift him up and it's like, this is the weirdest intro to a character in the first scene. He was such a weird concept.
01:25:46
Speaker
Like, I mean, don't get me wrong, I do like, this is something I do like about Sonic, which I have to say, maybe it's a bit weird, but like, I do have a soft spot for the fact that they try different things with the series, whether or not it works, which in this case, obviously, did not maybe work as well as they intended, but at least they tried something like new.
01:26:08
Speaker
I have to agree. Part of Sonic's strength is the fact that he does keep trying things, where other series probably would have just kept pumping out the same sort of game. I think they actually do it to a fault, because as we see with most styles, they stick around for a game or two and then they switch it.
01:26:28
Speaker
And it's like, how can you ever refine the ideas that you have if you just keep throwing them away? Also, part of what makes me hate 06 so much is because I think Sega did consider it a lot like Adventure, at least in the sense that they see open world and they refuse to go back to it now.
01:26:47
Speaker
They saw all the criticism and were like, we're not touching it, we're doing something new.
Impact on Future Game Developments
01:26:51
Speaker
And I just hate that, you know, because I think Adventure 1 and 2 are spectacular games. And the fact that 06 killed it for everyone made me hate it that much more, you know? Because it's not just that it made people hate Sonic, it made Sega hate the Adventure formula.
01:27:11
Speaker
Would you say though, this game was definitely the final nail in the coffin for Sega trying anything different with the series or the franchise? No. I wouldn't say so, no. Because we still have the boost formula. They still did Lost World, which was a very weird idea.
01:27:29
Speaker
They evidently are going to try and do a Breath of the Wild inspired game with Sonic Rangers. So they are still trying. I think 06 is the point where they stopped really pumping effort into it. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think it hurt them a lot more than
01:27:47
Speaker
then they would care to admit. So, I feel like 06 was really the last, like, big budget kind of, uh, kind of Sonic game. And ever since, it's felt like every other game that they've pumped out since has been, you know, kind of a lower budget, like, hey, maybe if this works, we'll start, you know, funding it, but we're not gonna put in that initial effort. And I think that's kind of why the boost formula took off.
01:28:11
Speaker
Because it's like people liked, you know, unleash day stages and then they liked colours. And so Seiko was like, okay, well then let's start making that with like generations and then they kind of ruined it with forces. So now, now new style. I think 06 was really the point where they said like, we can't keep pumping money into this. I can understand why. Like I can understand why from a business point of view, they would say.
01:28:37
Speaker
Okay, maybe we shouldn't, you know, do this or that. Like, I totally get it. But from a creative standpoint, it seems as if, as you said, because the Buss Romula was so popular, I'm going to be honest, Unleashed, I am not a huge fan of it. Like, I like certain aspects of it, like the style and the globe. Some bits are really, really well done.
01:29:02
Speaker
some of the gameplay like having a different button for the homing attack and things and having the boosts and things like some of the stuff is just really grating and obviously it did get better but yeah it was also the the werehog stuff was very very heavily criticized oh yeah
01:29:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
Sega's Directional Shifts
01:29:21
Speaker
And I mean for good reason, but I think part of Sega's issue is like they'll encounter mild criticism and then go, well, we're trying something else. It's not you Sonic 06, it's us. We're going in a different direction. Let's just leave bygones be back.
01:29:39
Speaker
It's like, no, don't leave it. Would you agree and say, though, that this is definitely the game that, I suppose, I wouldn't say solidified. Maybe that's too drastic, but it made Sonic into more of a meme, or pretty much a joke of a franchise. Yes, that's exactly the turning point, I'd say.
01:30:01
Speaker
Sonic 06 is kind of really ripe for that type of content because the internet loves just really, really awful content. And then they'll start making memes out of it. It was very smart of Sega to play that up.
Sonic 06's Flaws as Memes
01:30:15
Speaker
You know, they still reference the long load times of
01:30:18
Speaker
of 06 people love them for it now because haha they're they're willing to make fun of themselves but i think sega has learned the wrong lesson from it they they continue to make memes but i just don't think that's the right idea in the long run so it's that idea of like it's self like it's self critical humor isn't it yeah it's self-deprecating yeah yeah self-deprecating thank you that was what i was looking for
01:30:40
Speaker
Yeah, no worries. It totally is. It's that idea of, oh, haha, look at... I know I make jokes about Big the Cat as well, so I'm not clean in this respect, but it is very much like they'll make jokes about, oh, look how silly Big the Cat was, oh, look how silly this and that was. Sometimes they have really good posts where they talk about the good things about it, but most of the time it's just memes about how bad the games were.
01:31:10
Speaker
And I mean, the only thing that I think is very bad in that regard is the fact that people see Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic 06 and they kind of paint the whole series with that. Like don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna like, define something like Shadow the Hedgehog and say like, oh it was the best game of all time, you know. Because it wasn't, it definitely had its flaws. Even with heroes, it was still competently done, but there were bits that was kind of like,
01:31:39
Speaker
I don't know. But that's the thing. Where do you stop with the paintbrush? If you say, oh, everything's terrible, then you're going into adventure territory saying, oh, it's janky because I played 06. I don't really want to name them, but there is a popular Let's Play series, let's just say.
01:31:58
Speaker
has played this before. When they played Sonic 06, they actually got into an argument where one of them basically said, I think that Adventure is far better than this, and the other guy was saying, oh no, don't be ridiculous, Adventure is more broken than this, which
01:32:17
Speaker
It's a broken game in some regards, but it's nowhere near as broken. In some regards, and also the fact that the ports that they continue to put out are broken themselves. Because the original Dreamcast versions, contrary to popular belief, are actually very stable and very, you know, solid games. But all the DX and battle ports of the adventure games are all broken because the way the Dreamcast worked
01:32:47
Speaker
It was very unique to how most consoles work, so when they ported Adventure 2 over, it broke a lot of the adventure games in general. It broke a lot of the stuff. They never bothered fixing it, and they continue to put that out as the definitive version when it's not. I mean, there are positives to those ports.
01:33:07
Speaker
But I think people, you know, because people's only experiences, for the most part, are those ports. And whenever a glitch happens and they're like, oh, this is a broken game, it's like, well, that's the port. The port had tons of geometry and lighting and other weird issues. The fact that you're basing, you're generalizing, oh, these adventure games are just so broken to me is like totally unfair.
01:33:31
Speaker
But I think that's the thing though, at least I remember playing that again and I'd encountered a couple of them very far between. But even if you do encounter the Glitches, right away you can jump back into the game. If you know how to play the game, you can play those levels in like, what, two, three minutes maybe? Maybe four, I'll push.
01:33:51
Speaker
You know, you can play these levels really quickly and if you die you just jump back into it. Even the later on levels, they are longer but not ridiculously so. You would never spend about 10 to 15 minutes, I don't think. And I'm just thinking back to when I played it and I'm like, please tell me there's no footage of me spending 10 to 15 minutes on it eventually.
01:34:13
Speaker
But you know, for the most part, let's say, whereas it seems as if it's the norm for Sonic or Sonic 06 to be like, oh, let's make it like this. Let's make it the Ben Hur of video games. Let's make it 12 hours long. I just want to play Sonic. I just want to go fast. And like there are some games like that where I think I said this before when I was talking about the new I don't know if you played it yet, the new Call of Duty game Cold War.
01:34:40
Speaker
I have not. They did a thing where they basically tried to make it more... it's basically the same game as all the other ones but they put in an RPG style that kind of slowed it down and it doesn't really pay off at the end and you're like... you know with dialogue options and things and it's a neat idea but it's just like...
01:35:01
Speaker
Maybe I'm just grouchy and having that stage of my life where I'm like, I just want to play video games. I just want to get from point A to point B, shoot things, go through hoops, you know? I just want to play a video game. I have no time. If I'm going to go through dialogue, I'm going to play personal enough. But if not, I'm just going to do this. So that's a thing.
01:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, oh goodness. There are a lot of things I was gonna bring up. But I think the... I think, at least for me, like I said earlier, 06 was really the point where it went from yeah, Sonic is good to like oh no, Sonic was never good. Which is very obviously false. But like...
01:35:38
Speaker
Oh, gosh. So many different, like, thoughts are trying to make their way out right now. But it's... 06, for all of its faults, I still think has positives. So, like, the fact that everyone just kind of gave up after 06 still felt really weird. And then whenever people, you know, are like, oh, I'm going to do an honest faith, you know, go back and play these games. And like, I've found that it ends up like they encounter one or two glitches and go like, oh,
01:36:04
Speaker
This is ridiculous, I'm not doing this. It always, it kind of irks me. And like, I don't think 06 is good. Like, I agree with people, but like, I'm at least somewhat willing to defend 06 as an idea. It's false outreach, isn't it? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think it's kind of also confirmation bias. Like, somebody says these games are glitchy, so they look for glitches and encounter a glitch and go, see, it's glitchy.
01:36:31
Speaker
And this is kind of a weird side tangent, but I am not that big, and this is my hot take of the night. I'm not that big a fan of the Legend of Zelda games. Like, the only reason I'm going to defend myself is because I have done a playthrough of Breath of the Wild.
01:36:47
Speaker
But the reason just is because I didn't grow up with them. And going back to the old games, there's obviously going to be glitches. I would never go into a Legend of Zelda game with the mindset of, I'm not going to enjoy this, this is going to be terrible. I have heard people complaining about this.
01:37:05
Speaker
Because if you do, then that's the experience you're gonna get. Like, don't get me wrong, with Sonic you are, or with O6 you are gonna encounter a lot of glitches and a lot of weird stuff.
Classic Sonic vs Newer Games
01:37:15
Speaker
But if you go into any other Sonic game with that same mindset to be like, oh, if this game was terrible, then they're all terrible. And I know that kind of links back to what we said at the beginning of this episode where we said, you know, all it gets good in the first, you know, like, several seasons or whatever for a show that's like,
01:37:34
Speaker
It's like I suppose the difference is you don't have to be playing from like the very first Sonic game to know what's happening in this game. You can pick and choose. That's the point of video games. It's like you don't have to play Sonic 06 and then go back to adventure. You could just skip that and go straight to adventure or generations or wherever you want to start.
01:37:52
Speaker
There's kind of a side thing I sort of want to bring up. I mean, it's still related, but I've talked about this a lot, but I love the classics as well. And I think the strength of the classics is repetition because those games, and even according to Yuji Naka,
01:38:10
Speaker
Those games were about learning a level and getting faster and you're rewarded. The satisfaction is overcoming things faster and faster. You replay and you get more Chaos Emeralds, you get faster levels, you get hit less. That was a pretty commonly understood thing back in the day. And if you read reviews of the Sonic games back in the day, they actually called those games really easy.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, because, like, there were a lot of people who were like, this game's so easy, you can complete it in a couple hours. Like, that's nothing. And it's funny because if you see people go back to, you know, who are like, I've never played the classic, so let me play them now. And then they'll, you know, they'll sit there and they'll go like, this game's too hard. I can't just go through it through it quickly. It's like, yeah, that's not the point. And like, I, you know, I use save features in games because there are times I don't feel like getting, you know, screwed out of all that time.
01:39:02
Speaker
I'm never going to deny that that's how the game was designed. Like, I played through Mega Man 1, and Mega Man 1 is a very tough game. And in a lot of ways very similar to Sonic, you know, in the sense of you learn patterns, you get better, you move on. And like, I rewound and save scummed and did all that. But I would never be like these games are poorly designed because I can't just get through it on one go.
01:39:26
Speaker
So it's always so mind-boggling to me that people approach Sonic in that same mindset, because they think, oh, I gotta go fast, when it's like, that was not really the point. You know, again, part of why 06 really kills me is because it made people generalize like that, and when it's very clearly not the case. Yeah, sorry to go on that.
01:39:45
Speaker
No, no, not at all. No, you make a good point though. I mean, do you want to remind me of it's like seeing when someone hypes something up for you to say like, I mean, the case of Sonic, you know, it's one of the greatest like video game icons ever, you know, up there with Mario, Pac-Man, Mega Man, that kind of thing. Yes. For like classic
01:40:03
Speaker
you know video game icons and you think oh you know this game's gonna be great and then you play it and you're like oh this did not live up to my expectations. I'm just thinking in terms of like this is terrible but you're like hot and difficult games and yeah like um especially with Sonic 06 like with Dark Souls which I don't know enough I think I came out near enough the same time as this.
01:40:26
Speaker
But it's like, I am not, from what I've played over, I am not good at Dark Souls. I am not a huge fan of those kind of games where you die over and over again. I would not say, like, oh, this game's, you know, stupid, it's terrible. Like, it's just not my game or my kind of game. And don't get me wrong, I don't think Sonic 06 is anybody's, or not many people's game. But at the same time, just because, like, Sonic 06 is bad doesn't mean that the same standard should be applied to everything else.
01:40:55
Speaker
exactly kind of a closing point but it's like you do see those like game critics who initially used to really irk me back in the day because remember you had the angry video game nerd and the nostalgia and you know those kind of reviewers on the internet yes and then everybody tried to copy them because they were so famous so yeah yeah all this like
01:41:14
Speaker
fake rage, which never came off as genuine. It was always, oh, this game's terrible. It's like diarrhea. It's like that. And you're like, this is an awful art analysis. It's one thing to call a game bad and be genuinely outraged. I've done it before in stream, but
01:41:32
Speaker
like if I was going out there with the complete dedication of saying from the outset, oh this is a terrible game, oh it's fake. Because I have to admit, although it was a terrible game, that is by far one of my favourite streams that I've ever done on the channel. Like playing Sonic 06 for six hours is one of my favourite streams because just like playing through it, chatting with people and things, it was a bonding experience. Let's just
01:41:59
Speaker
It's like, you're those films with the teenagers that see the thing in the woods and it's like, we've all been through this, now let's bury it and pretend it never happened. This is like that, but it's just one of those things. Did you feel the same way when you streamed this? Yeah, I mean, I roughly did feel the same way and I'm actually really glad you brought up two different things.
01:42:23
Speaker
One, I'm glad you brought up Dark Souls because I actually make that comparison too because to me that's essentially the exact same thing
Sonic's Difficulty vs Dark Souls
01:42:30
Speaker
as the classics, right? You die and you die and you get frustrated and you overcome basically the differences like Sonic wants you to replay to keep getting faster and faster versus, you know, Dark Souls is just overcome.
01:42:42
Speaker
I always found that comparison to be fairly apt, and it's funny to me that people will praise a game like Dark Souls where it's like, oh, well, that's the point. And then you'll sit there and you'll go like, well, that's the point of Sonic. And they'll be like, no, it's just bad. It's like...
01:42:55
Speaker
Where's the difference? I'm glad you brought that up because that is definitely something I've thought a lot about. I'm also glad that you brought up the AVGN imitators. I mean no disrespect to AVGN himself because clearly he was very smart to do what he did, but I kind of resent him for starting that whole culture of just mindlessly kind of exaggerating everything, which I mean, it's not his fault necessarily.
01:43:25
Speaker
He I'm sure he was just doing something that he thought was funny and other people kind of ripped him off without really understanding I always resented that because it's like just saying oh this game's a bunch of diarrhea like It isn't constructive in any way and so many people just instantly latched on to that and I feel like Sonic got a lot of that you know focused on him which I guess is kind of why I defend him in the way I do because it's like I
01:43:50
Speaker
You know, I'm not saying Sonic's perfect, certainly not. But when somebody goes up to a game that's like Sonic was always bad and then will play the game not in the way it's intended and complain every step of the way and then go, see, I had a bad time, so it's a bad game. It's like, well, you were determined for that. If you go into a game saying that
01:44:17
Speaker
yeah that you're gonna have a bad time, you're gonna have a bad time. It sounds like a silly thing to say but it's genuinely if you're gonna go into a game and say oh Sonic's terrible like again going back to that group that plays Sonic games you know the let's play group you know what I'm talking about.
01:44:34
Speaker
Yes, that's all I do. A certain group who plays these games and they complain, and don't get me wrong, some of their complaints are completely justified, you think? Sure, yeah. That's absolutely, you know, boo, like how they died there. Other times, you watch and you just think, they're just doing it for the quote-unquote comedy and things, and I really don't. It is more just the insincerity of it, like, I'm not even targeting them, I just mean in general, like, for any content creator or reaction.
01:45:04
Speaker
whatever. If you're going to react to something, or if you're going to review something, at least make it genuine. At least say, oh I hate it because it's stupid that someone didn't kiss the woman, or he nearly tore her arm off, or again.
01:45:21
Speaker
I don't keep bringing it up, it's silver. Talking about the morality of killing someone for the future. How did that make it past the green team? Everyone's just like, oh yeah, sure, that's fine for a Sonic game. What was the last game? Oh yeah, aliens and guns.
01:45:36
Speaker
That specific group that you're referencing, I also noticed something that I don't think anyone else really tended to notice, but I picked up on it. And so this Let's Play group was playing Sonic Shuffle. You know what? I'm one of those people that really love Sonic Shuffle. I legitimately think it's better than Mario Party, regardless.
01:45:58
Speaker
There's a minigame in it where you, it's a 3v1 and like you and it's like one person's in a giant hover tank and then three people are in like smaller hover tanks and you know you have to like shoot each other. And they got that minigame on the show and they're on the let's play and they go
01:46:19
Speaker
And one of them offhandedly goes like, oh, is that the tank from Sonic? And the connotation of that is, is like, oh, how ridiculous that Sonic is in a tank. And I mean, like, yeah, it's kind of ridiculous, but I thought about it and I was like, wait, they played Mario Party 2 many moons ago.
01:46:38
Speaker
And in Mario Party 2, there's a minigame where Mario and company are in tanks and you have to lob little cannon shots over. And I was like, why wouldn't they make that same joke about Mario being in a tank? Because to me, that's far more ridiculous because Mario never really had any sort of precedent for violent warfare.
01:46:58
Speaker
But it was funny to me. It stuck out to me because I was like, they would never make that joke if it was Mario. Mario in a tank? Oh yeah, that's just Mario. But like Sonic in a tank? Oh, how ridiculous. Like, I can't believe that. Well, all I'm saying is they must have shot a brick when they saw Shadow the Hedgehog driving around in like armored cars and, you know, motorcycle shooting guns and things. They must have just been like, yeah, no.
01:47:24
Speaker
Yeah, but I just mean like it was just such a ridiculous thing because it's like why are you only applying this to this this one thing? And that's why I find it so indicative of like how people treat Sonic. It's like people are willing to make all sorts of off-handed how ridiculous you know jokes about Sonic but not about anything else that does the same thing.
01:47:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think at least in terms of, like, Sonic 06's legacy, certainly it has left a very, very negative impact on things.
Risks of Poor Planning in Development
01:48:10
Speaker
But I don't think it's completely irredeemable. I've never wanted to give off that vibe. I certainly don't like a lot of things about it. I actually think Sega is right to acknowledge it because I do think it's something that can be learned from.
01:48:13
Speaker
So that's why I defend it in the way I do.
01:48:26
Speaker
does still have things about it. So for what it's worth, Sonic 06, while quite possibly one of the worst games I've played, is still at least interesting to me. It's definitely how you shouldn't take a risk, which I know is a bit of a contradiction.
01:48:46
Speaker
It's like, take a risk, but don't take too much of a risk. Like, if you're going to take a risk, at least plan it out and don't, like, put Final Fantasy characters. Do you know what? Like, I know I keep making the Final Fantasy comments, but do you know what that actually reminds me of? You know when kids, they have their weird, like, head canons where they put... This is a really weird pet peeve of mine, you know? Chats and I'm explosive. But it's like,
01:49:10
Speaker
usually as kids, but when people put characters together that shouldn't really fit in the same universe, and they don't, like Leslie Homer Simpson and Goku from Dragon Ball Z, both of those shows are completely polar opposites. There is nothing similar whatsoever. You imagine them together. I don't know, maybe it's just my black and white brain going,
01:49:35
Speaker
Yeah, not compatible. Like I'm not creative enough to be like, yes, and Homer Simpson bet up Goku. And then they travel to, you know, the One Piece or whatever, you know, like jumping from thing to thing, you know, or like old Rick and Morty go to, I don't know, you know. God, I was thinking of someone that was like, no, actually that fits, that fits, that fits. You know, like they go to soap opera or something, you know, it's like things that definitely don't fit.
01:50:01
Speaker
The point I'm making is don't mash Final Fantasy and Sonic together ever again, please. Just don't, please. I mean, well, so here's the thing. I don't necessarily think, like, I, again, I'm a weirdo who likes Sonic Chronicles. I think, like, Sonic and RPG stuff can work. Oh yeah.
01:50:21
Speaker
But I think if you are going to try something that risky, you really need to give it the proper time and funding to see it through. Because I think that's the thing. I don't think, I don't think necessarily that, like, there's, I mean, there are some things that just will not work, but for the most part, like, if you're looking at the next game and you were like, okay, we want to do this, and it is totally out of left field, it's like, that's fine, but
01:50:48
Speaker
really put a ton of thought and effort into it. Because if you're just trying to rush it out for obligation, it is never going to work regardless of what you're doing. I think that's the biggest lesson. More of the story, guys. If you're going to develop a game, don't do it overnight. You're not at university anymore. You can't rush it out at night.
01:51:10
Speaker
Exactly. What about you? Do you have final thoughts on 06? I would just agree and just emphasise just what you said about it. It's a good learning curve because at the one hand I think you know terrible game and everything and you know the usual like it's it had intention behind it. You can definitely see they were trying for like this grand adventure for Sonic.
01:51:34
Speaker
Because if it succeeded then people probably would have called this like Sonic Adventure 3. Not officially, but they definitely would have called it something. And then we would have got like series after series of like Souliana, like a silver spin-off game, a shadow. You know like maybe like there's an alternate universe out there where this game succeeded. That is a scary thought.
01:51:59
Speaker
But the fact that it did succeed, which is, yeah, or it would have succeeded, sorry, I was speaking hypothetically, it belonged in here, but you know, it's really interesting to see that. It's like a beautiful mess, I would say. It's like something that I admire
01:52:18
Speaker
the fact that they tried something different and they tried something so grand but there was a lot of things that definitely should have either been put in the cutting room floor or they just shouldn't have done that at all but they did and you just think well intentioned but not fully realized I would say when they came to sum up and it's a shame because now we're kind of stuck in a rut where
01:52:42
Speaker
the game series are, and again it's a game about a blue hedgehog and he's running around fast, but we're in that stage now where the stories seem to be very generic. Like as much as I like things like Sonic Generations, I really enjoy playing the game.
01:52:59
Speaker
I did not enjoy the story. The story was just so generic and, oh look, I'm Sonic, I run fast, look at my boost, boost. And the same with forces. Oh, I'm Sonic, I'm getting tortured, which again, different a show together. But, oh, look at me boost. And they've never really been able to shake that off. It's just because it's safe and it works. Like, they do still try different things, like with Lost World and things, but I feel as if this
01:53:25
Speaker
As you were saying before, this is a game that definitely carped their hubris, as it were. Or tried to try something, you know, grand and massive and now it just seems now to be like references and just slaps that comedy.
01:53:42
Speaker
Which, I know, I get it. Again, you know, for the purposes of, you know, for legal purposes, this is a joke. But, you know, like, I know it's a children's game and everything, but there used to be a time where, at least, they tried to make it for everyone. Like, the adventures. Like, you could easily go back and play them, no matter what age you are, and still have a blast.
01:54:02
Speaker
With some of the newer games, they're fun. You do get put off by some of the dialogue, and that's a whole different thing. And the dialogue is not by any means perfect in this game. It's not great, but at least they tried something. They had an idea. I will say that. They had an idea. Was it realised? Nah. Was the gameplay good? Nah.
01:54:25
Speaker
like they did not hit like the goals they were supposed to but honestly like bless them for trying because yeah the funny thing I have to admit like you mentioned this in the very beginning where you said that they actually they've got a fan-made PC port of this game yes yeah apparently this was supposed to come out for the PC like yeah it was mm-hmm and then they never did it yeah yeah
01:54:50
Speaker
it's kind of weird because you think it would be easy enough just to port over but then again if they hadn't ported it over and then the game was like received that poorly they would have just been like yeah no i don't think i will
01:55:02
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, Sonic Team has said that they thought, like, they took 06 off of digital storefronts because they were like, it's hurting the brand by being off. So I'm sure from their perspective, it's like, we could put this game that's received poorly, you know, on PC, but let's not. But also, I did want to mention something about 06, too, that it's also very much a product of what was going on around it, because the departure of Yuji Naka, and apparently Yuji Naka is not a very good person to work under.
01:55:31
Speaker
you know, the splitting of teams into Sonic and the Secret Rings and Sonic 06, the difficulty of developing for the PS3 and the weird insistence on it coming out in 2006, it all, I think it just all culminated in this.
External Development Factors
01:55:48
Speaker
So in a sense, a lot of its flaws are just from the fact that so many other things happened around it, that it's hard for me to really completely hate it because also, you know, it's just had all those things.
01:56:00
Speaker
And again, I don't keep saying closing statement, but genuinely, last one. I genuinely feel as if when people look at Sonic 06, they don't completely take into consideration the landscape of what Sonic was like at the time. As I said before, 2001-ish was when Adventure came out, so that's when it was on top. That's when it came out for the Gamecube. And although Sega is like a hardware brand, it's completely failed.
01:56:28
Speaker
after the Dreamcast, that was it. But at the same time, they were still pumping out games, and they were coming across platforms. And as I said, although I didn't like Sonic Heroes, it was still popular. People loved it. Why, I don't know, but you know. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, then 2005 rocked along and Shadow the Hedgehog came out, which everyone was initially hyped at, I think, because Shadow was a fan favourite until they saw the trailer. Yes.
01:56:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's the weird thing about Shadow. It's like, people were excited he got a spin-off, but also horrified that he's carrying real guns and all that. Yeah, it's like a carton gun. I'm sorry, a carton, hey joke, carries a real-life gun.
01:57:10
Speaker
and then you get to the actual game and it's the exact same models that they used for Sonic Heroes and yeah, I still hate that. I'm like, why would you do this? And then that's the thing. Sonic was on shaky ground. He was. And also Shadow and Heroes share an engine.
01:57:30
Speaker
because they they wanted to make an engine that would like last across multiple games and uh you know something that they could use for the hardware that they weren't used to so when 06 was trying to use an entirely new engine for a new generation you know that's just an extra barrier on top of all the other things going on so it's it's all it's all a product of its time and its circumstances of all the engines so
01:57:56
Speaker
I know. I can't believe I'm referencing Casablanca and the Sonic 06. He was like, of all the engines to walk into my stream, and they walk into mine. Do you know what I think the saddest
Sonic 06's Reboot Failure
01:58:12
Speaker
thing is? The fact that they called it Sonic the Hedgehog, and you might be thinking, people listen, you might be thinking, oh, why is that a big thing? It's the fact that it implies that this
01:58:22
Speaker
was the reboot. It's like Sonic the Hedgehog. There's no subtitle for this. There's no addition. We call it Sonic 06. That's the fan name for it. It's not called official. It's not called Sonic 06. It's just Sonic the Hedgehog. It's not Sonic the HJN. It's not anything. It's clear that they wanted this to be the reboot.
01:58:46
Speaker
they wanted this to be the game that we're going to play and you know like this is what was going to kick off the new franchise and Jesus Christ. Imagine if this game succeeded and then the games had like max sections. Oh that would. Oh my nightmares. Yeah that would be horrifying.
01:59:06
Speaker
I'm doing that though. Speaking of running away from my problems. Well, as always Shadow, thank you so much for joining us. Of course, thank you. Before we finish up, where can these lovely people listening at home find your content?
01:59:22
Speaker
I have, of course, my main Twitch channel, which is Super Shadow 271, or I mean main, it's my only Twitch channel, but I have a main YouTube channel, Super Shadow 271, which I have been working on, but progress is a little slow because of real life stuff. I have a Stream Archives YouTube channel, so if you want to catch up on any of my past streams. Sadly, I don't have my 06 playthrough uploaded because it's saved on my hard drive and it's going to take ages to upload.
01:59:51
Speaker
Yeah. But for a good chunk of my past streams, I have stream archives, YouTube channel, Super Shadow 271 stream archives. I have a Twitter account where you can follow me and you'll know when I'm going live. And I sometimes retweet giveaways and talk about gaming stuff. So that's cool. And I mean, I guess I do plan on having an Instagram at some point, but I just haven't gotten around to taking any like photos or anything. So.
02:00:18
Speaker
eventually I will have that but for now those are the main things first the Instagram then the TikTok as a slippery slope yeah yeah I know you'll see me flossing on TikTok soon enough I guess no it'll be a slow descent into madness about two years two years yeah yeah
02:00:47
Speaker
Oh, you know what? I also have a Discord server too, if anyone's interested. That's a thing. I was going to say, go check out Shadow because you're content's awesome. That really is. Thank you. I appreciate that. Your streams are very chill. Yeah, it's been really fun to be on here.
02:01:08
Speaker
I always have a great time. Your content is also very cool too. I always wish I could come more often. It's just my life is so hectic right now. It's hard to keep up. But yeah, no, I love
Engaging Stream Dynamics
02:01:21
Speaker
talking about this. If you ever want me back on, feel free to just message me and I'll probably be free. Oh, believe me. Like if it comes to Sonic, you're definitely the go-to person.
02:01:31
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, obviously we could chat for like definitely longer than the time would be going. Oh, yeah, definitely. I wish I could just talk forever about this kind of thing because I could. But also, you mentioned how like my streams are chill and usually they are but I just recently had some friends over and we we played Need for Speed Carbon. Oh my god, what a hectic stream that was.
02:01:57
Speaker
very occasionally i'll have my friends in real life over and we will have some really wild streams i really need to start doing that as well obviously because i'll walk down and everything but having lots of chances like to meet up with my friends and i but i need to get people over just just purely for the you know under the guise of yes i'm having a dinner party yeah yeah exactly
02:02:19
Speaker
Yes, I'm sorry. I lied. All I have are dirty toes on this microphone. Let's get talking. Let's get talking about whatever topic we've chosen. Burdemic 2. Why not? Let's go. Yeah, right? If I were near you, I would be down. Definitely. Sadly, I don't think that's possible. No. Well, not in this day and age currently. But one day. Oh, yes. One day.
02:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, one day for sure. Whatever. If you would like to see more of my content personally, you can catch me on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok of course, YouTube, Facebook as well, and of course Twitch under the name Satsanami42. If you want to see a very crazy and chaotic Let's Play series, every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, my friends and I do a Let's Play series called Tea Posing,
02:03:10
Speaker
over on youtube so yeah if you like heavy rain if you like breath of the wild and if you like shenanigans in warzone then yeah feel free to watch it also if you want to check out more episodes of the podcast you can catch me on
02:03:26
Speaker
Anchor. Spotify. YouTube as well. We've got a YouTube channel for Chat Tsunami. It's literally just called Chat Tsunami. And all good podcast distributors. So if you've got a podcast app, just look up Chat Tsunami. If you've got to this episode, you probably have a feel for what this podcast is about. But if not, we talk about video games. We talk about films, anime, streaming as well. I've also done a couple more streamer spotlights where, of course, I've talked to you as well, Shadow. Again, great episode.
02:03:55
Speaker
I was about to, it was a lot of fun doing them. It was so much fun. This was so much fun too. So yeah, go check out that episode. If you want more content from myself and Shadow, then go check out that's currently live on both YouTube and anger Spotify. Anything, whatever you use to listen to these. Yes.
02:04:16
Speaker
yeah as always guys thank you all so so much for stopping by and listening it's honestly much appreciated and it's honestly a blast thank you again shadow um sorry i sound like a broken british record but thank you no no thank you i'm honored to be on and uh i i have a blast whenever i do this so if you ever want me back on absolutely no yeah
02:04:40
Speaker
And I can talk about other things too, if you want to. I do know quite a few of them. It's like, no. I'll play Sonic. So yeah guys, as always, stay safe, stay awesome. And most importantly, don't play Sonic 06.
02:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, watch a Let's Play. Yeah, watch a Let's Play. If you somehow get into like one of those like weird creepypasta markets with the realistic graphics and pouring out and then they've got a copy of Sonic 06, yeah, pick it up. Well, it's the worst that could happen. Yeah, exactly.
02:05:22
Speaker
And also, do not download the DLC for the game. I know we didn't touch on it, but don't. It's just harder levels. Why would you do that to yourself? And on that note, stay hydrated. Bye guys.