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Episode 017: Vanessa Kynes - How to Use Pinterest to Increase Brand Visibility and Website Traffic
162 Plays6 years ago
Vanessa is a Pinterest Marketing Strategist for creative small businesses. Using YouTube and her blog, she helps creative small businesses blossom by creating traffic-generating Pinterest strategies to increase their visibility. Juggling the demands of her own budding business with those of family and home, she specializes in efficient productivity, making the most out of every moment, and every pin! Hailing originally from the great state of Texas, she has lived in two foreign countries and enjoys traveling with her three sweet daughters and memory-seeking husband while residing in the Pacific Northwest.
The highlights:
02:10 How Vanessa became a Pinterest Marketing Strategist
06:27 The biggest benefit when people use Pinterest correctly
09:46 Advantages of Pinterest and opportunity in Pinterest versus Instagram, Google, etc.
15:23 The Pinterest Smart Feed
16:41 What to put in your Pinterest Business Profile
17:22 The three most common mistakes people make on Pinterest / Best image ratio for Pinterest
18:53 An easy-to-implement tip to get people to click-through on Pinterest to your website.
20:51 Finding the right keywords on Pinterest
26:57 How consistency leads to more visibility (and a tool to help)
31:16 Pinterest Strategies for 2018
34:45 Do followers matter on Pinterest?
37:00 Creating multiple pins for the same post.
38:41 What kind Pins work for Vanessa.
40:40 Where to use keywords besides pin-descriptions (and how many keywords to use)
44:00 What are some ways to make a website Pinterest Marketing friendly?
46:03 Tips specifically for wedding photographers.
49:53 Creating a Tailwind Tribe
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-vanessa-kynes-episode-17/
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
The best way to find the keywords to use on Pinterest is to use the search bar. So if you put in Prince, let's say we're going to do a princess birthday party. You start, you're having a boy, right? Okay. We are having a boy. So I'm guessing there's not going to be much princess birthday parties. Yeah, I have three daughters. So if you start searching dinosaur party, just like on Google, Pinterest will start to auto populate ideas for you to search.
00:00:31
Speaker
And those auto populations of keyword search queries are the types of things that you want to take home and put into what I call a keyword bank.
Introduction: Building Brands with Pinterest
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:55
Speaker
Today's guest is Vanessa Kynes. Vanessa is a Pinterest marketing strategist for creative small businesses. She helps businesses grow using Pinterest by implementing strategies to increase visibility and website traffic. And during today's interview, we're covering just that. How to use Pinterest to increase traffic to your website and grow your business.
00:01:20
Speaker
Well, Vanessa, thank you for joining me on the Brands That Book Show. I've been looking forward to this episode, especially since Pinterest is something that's completely foreign to me. So very much, we'll talk about why I should be more focused on
Vanessa's Journey to Pinterest Strategy
00:01:37
Speaker
Pinterest. And I don't even know where to start because I've never been on Pinterest. None of my friends are on Pinterest. But Krista is, I know she's on it all the time and she uses it for all sorts of different things. So I'm really excited to have you with me.
00:01:49
Speaker
Great, well thank you so much for inviting me. I'm excited to talk about my favorite platform, Pinterest. Yay! Yeah, absolutely. So we always start the episode by just learning a little bit about how you started your business. You are a Pinterest marketing strategist, so this is very much what you're focused on. How did you become a Pinterest marketing strategist? Yeah, so I've always been a really data-driven person and also a visualist. I've been using the Pinterest platform since its inception.
00:02:18
Speaker
I think around 2011. I think it's when it started. So I've always been really into the platform and a few years ago I had a friend who had a really successful blog. She's making money through ads and it's home decor. So I just reached out to her not really even knowing anything about the online business world if she needed any support. I had no idea exactly what I was asking. And she came back and said yes, she would love for me to basically get on board and manage her Facebook page, her Pinterest page,
00:02:47
Speaker
a little bit of Instagram and just help her with content creation. I'd actually had a WordPress blog when we lived in the UK for six years and so it's pretty familiar with how to use WordPress. From there, I was managing all those different accounts and I realized very quickly that I preferred Pinterest and I was seeing the power of Pinterest to drive traffic to our site. Very quickly, I saw how that was powerful. Basically, it's the reason why she gets ad revenue because of the volume coming from there. Facebook,
00:03:17
Speaker
wasn't sending a lot of traffic, but we all know it's important to at least have a presence. And Instagram was sending almost no. So for me, I was just really driven by seeing the analytics, like you mentioned, through your website and the ability for her to profit from it. And so about a year ago, I started shifting away from doing all those services to Pinterest. I didn't see a ton of people focusing on that. There are a few out there.
00:03:41
Speaker
And, um, and the last two years I've been to Pinterest headquarters twice and actually I've headed back, um, in June. So in a couple of weeks from now to participate in one of their content creation, um, workshops.
Why Use Pinterest for Traffic?
00:03:53
Speaker
So yeah, that's, that's really cool. Yeah. Pinterest is really focused the headquarters. They're really focused on, um, the content creator and they really want you to succeed. I feel like other platforms, there's a lot of distance, but right now Pinterest is really turning to the content creator to help them drive traffic to their site. So.
00:04:11
Speaker
I just think it's a really powerful tool that people, like you mentioned, just don't really understand. Have you seen your own business pick up once you started focusing just on Pinterest and not so much on all of these other strategies that are out there? Yeah, absolutely. So I have a blog and I blog weekly and I've just made a really strong commitment to do that blog. And I'm getting, I mean, I would say that's most of my traffic. I'm not as present on Instagram. It's just harder for me to do that.
00:04:38
Speaker
And I'm already getting pretty consistent affiliate income through one of the products I recommend and client leads. So I know that your business, the people that listen to this podcast really focus on client leads that book. And so I've seen so many people show up in my email list to email me and say, can I hire you? Can we do a consultation? So I, for service-based business, there's plenty of room to use Pinterest to really grow your client leads. And so,
00:05:06
Speaker
I've been surprised by that but I think it's because people keep coming back to my site and seeing that no like trust you're developing that content and I'm thinking about the wedding industry. I've worked with a lot of people who are photographers or So, you know wedding based services and those brides are looking on Pinterest and Yeah, they're looking on Pinterest now and they're coming to your website and hopefully you have the right clients and
00:05:33
Speaker
captures on your website to convert those those leads into paying clients. So yeah, yeah, I know I mentioned to you, even before we started to show that it is something that generates a ton of traffic for us for our wedding photography business. And even things that were pinned years and years ago just keep on getting, you know, repinned
00:05:55
Speaker
and keep on generating traffic for us. And I kind of looked at Krista one day, I was like, why have we spent no time on Pinterest for Davey and Krista? Really intentionally up until this past year, we kind of did the bare minimum. So really,
00:06:15
Speaker
What is the power in investing in Pinterest? Like what are the biggest benefits you would say for somebody spending time on Pinterest? Well, the biggest benefit is it's the number one traffic driver for most people using it successfully. So I have a client who does service based and product based business and she
00:06:37
Speaker
basically launched her new website in November and she's seeing 75 or I believe, yeah, initially 75% of her traffic is coming from Pinterest. So the power is there are different platforms for visibility. And let's say that Instagram is one of those that really developing your personality. Pinterest is a little bit less about personality and it's really about content and getting people to your website. So I think that that's the value. Like it's similar. You really have to view Pinterest as more similar to Google or
00:07:04
Speaker
Yahoo, do people even use it? It's really a search engine and a visual search engine. So you view it differently from a social media platform. There are some aspects that are social and I feel like they're trying to re incorporate the social aspect of Pinterest. But at the bottom line, it's a search engine that you use, you plug in keywords into in the top and you find what Pinterest wants is people producing content that is useful and practical. And so it's all about
00:07:33
Speaker
finding the answer to your problem, which is a big part of marketing. Pinterest provides that.
00:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that it's very intent-based, right? Like when you're searching on Pinterest for something, you're ready to solve that problem. You're looking for a solution to a problem. Whereas on Facebook, really, you're trying to interrupt the scroll. You might be trying to call attention to a problem that somebody doesn't even know exists, right? Whereas on Pinterest and Google's the same way, when somebody jumps on there, they're actually searching for a solution to their problem.
00:08:05
Speaker
they're more likely to buy. And so I think that's definitely one of the biggest benefits in Pinterest. And I like that you compare it to Google as a search engine. And I guess it is, right? I guess that's really what it is, a visual search engine. Yeah, and you mentioned comparing Instagram and Pinterest. Pinterest people don't come. So here's an example I use a lot.
00:08:31
Speaker
It's more specific in e-commerce. If you want to buy a pair of Nike shoes, you don't go to Pinterest. You go straight to Amazon or Zappos or whatever. But if you want to explore ideas about the best summer tennis shoes, you come to Pinterest. So you come to Pinterest a little bit wider and broader and because you're not exactly sure what you want and you want to be inspired. And so Pinterest kind of allows you to funnel your ideas into something specific and you're hoping as a content creator,
00:08:59
Speaker
that you've keyworded your pins properly, that the search is going to land on you, and then go to your website. So it's really about capturing people in that beginning stages of planning and funneling them to you.
00:09:11
Speaker
So you had mentioned, and we chatted a little bit before this episode started, and I talked about, again, how well it's worked for our wedding photography business, how we've put some time into it for Demi and Krista. We haven't seen quite the same results. And you had mentioned that perhaps Pinterest was a better tool for
00:09:31
Speaker
B2C, so business to consumer rather than business to business. Do you find that certain kinds of businesses can make better use of Pinterest than others, or is it just a matter of adjusting your strategy depending on what kind of business you are? I think that it's super effective for
Pinterest for Different Business Models
00:09:48
Speaker
B2B or B2C. I think we were just talking about the volume.
00:09:53
Speaker
I think that when you think about B2C, you might be reaching millions of people. Millions of people might be interested in a recipe, a recipe is something we see a lot on Pinterest. And a lot of people might be searching for the best cinnamon roll recipe. But as a B2B, if you're something so specific as a brand strategist, I think you have to be a little bit, your expectations have to be realistic in that you're not going to get thousands and thousands of hits. You might, I think it would take time to get there.
00:10:18
Speaker
But I think that those clicks over are super intentional. And the other thing that I think is important is that if a lot of brand strategists or let's just pick Pinterest marketing strategists, there aren't that many of us are on Pinterest earlier. We're basically getting that momentum before everybody hops in. So there's a little bit of like, um,
00:10:38
Speaker
being an early adopter, which is super important. So if you're really niche, it's still super powerful, especially since people are going to be searching for that niche and come to you if there's not a lot of competition. But I think your expectations of the type of volume you're going to get compared to like a food blogger or whatever are going to be different. So I think it's still super powerful. Like I get tons of emails from people. I get my email list. I mean, that's something that I think is really important.
00:11:05
Speaker
is your email list, and with all these GDPR changes, it's a little bit annoying. Yeah, that's been quite the hassle for many of us, I think. I mean, I know some leading marketers, like Melissa Griffin and Jenna Kutcher, they talk about their email list growing, and a lot of them, they're utilizing the power of Pinterest to grow that, because you have these people coming from Pinterest and clicking over to your site, and Pinterest users are notoriously bouncy, meaning they bounce back off the platform if they don't see what they like.
00:11:34
Speaker
So you might only have seconds to capture those people on your email list, but once they're on your email list, you get a chance to nurture them. So that's another really powerful thing about Pinterest. I think if someone is following you on Instagram, they're getting to know you and their, your personality, and they're more likely if they do come to your website, and that's a big if they bounce over, um, to hang out, but Pinterest people, they, this might be the first taste that they have of your brand. So getting them on that email list is a super powerful way of just continuing the conversation.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess another difference between Pinterest and something like Instagram, right? And you had just mentioned it was how easy it is to go from somebody from that platform to somebody's website. Whereas even for Instagram, I'm thinking about it, I very rarely even when I am interested in what somebody's saying, you know, click into their profile and then click the link into the appropriate link in their profile. You know, I guess they're getting a little bit better about making it easier to get to somebody's website with like the swipe up feature.
00:12:30
Speaker
But Pinterest very much is meant to, I guess, refer, you know, keep, keep something top of mind for somebody and refer somebody to somebody else's content. Yeah, exactly. It's designed to be able to click over whereas Instagram
00:12:45
Speaker
really makes it more difficult, even with the swipe up, people just aren't interested. And they want to, I'm guessing that Instagram, I would assume that one of their metrics they look at is how long people spend in their app. You know, so they're probably doing things to a certain extent to try to keep people there. Whereas Pinterest, you know, maybe doesn't have, you know, if they're really about the content creator, they're making it a much, much easier and much less friction between getting from Pinterest to the content.
00:13:11
Speaker
So I actually asked them about that idea. Do they want to deflect people from leaving the platform, or are they okay with that? And they totally are okay with it. One metric that they are using is to determine the validity of a pin, is that they do measure, did the people bounce right back? So if I clicked on a pin, that was about, I don't know, I always use cinnamon rolls as my example. That was about cinnamon rolls, and I clicked over to that website, and there was nothing about cinnamon rolls there, so I immediately come back,
00:13:40
Speaker
Pinterest is going to know that that pin actually wasn't very useful. And so it's going to demote it in the Pinterest Smart Feed. And so they're actually using data on how the user interacts with what's on the other side of the domain. And so they're much more in tune to that, I think, than other platforms. So I think that's really interesting. They want to know, was that pin great? Like, did those people not bounce back? It was probably an awesome pin.
00:14:02
Speaker
they're gonna push that up in the Pinterest algorithm. So, interesting. Yeah, that's fascinating. And I wanna explore just one more similarity here between that and Google. For Google, I wouldn't say, there's definitely challenges to getting on the first page of Google. Would you say that it's easier to get a pin to start generating regular traffic than it is to rank on the first page of Google for your main keyword?
00:14:31
Speaker
Or is that too hard of a comparison to make? And I would understand because there's so many variables involved. Again, I think that's where if you're really niche specific, you have a better chance if you're trying to compete with millions of other recipes and that one particular food item. But the one thing I will say about Pinterest that I think might be different from Google, and I'm not an SEO expert, is that Pinterest really is prioritizing on new content.
00:14:58
Speaker
They love brand new content, so if you start posting new stuff, they really start to push those newer items, whereas I feel like Google and SEO is going to be a little bit more focused on the oldies but goodies, like the standard websites that people have been going to for years. So on Google, you have to change the parameters. If you want to see the newer content, you have to adjust it, whereas Pinterest is really going to be promoting the newer content.
00:15:23
Speaker
I think a lot of that is more gonna be seen in the Smart Feed. So let's talk a little bit about that. So there's like, when you go to Pinterest, there's like your homepage, and what you're seeing is a Smart Feed, and it's basically determining based on what you pin and the type of content you search for, it's gonna try to like guess what you're interested in. And then there's the search bar, which is where you would search for a particular item. The Pinterest Smart Feed is going to prioritize newer content that relates to what you're interested in, whereas the search feed
00:15:50
Speaker
probably is going to prioritize more historically established great pins. So there's a little bit of each. I feel like when you're coming to the platform, you can get the new content, but then also find the really useful content that's kind of stand the test of time.
00:16:06
Speaker
All right. So that's, that's great. So let's, let's focus now on getting started with Pinterest or for those, for those people who maybe have Pinterest accounts, never really used it for their business.
Avoiding Common Pinterest Mistakes
00:16:15
Speaker
Let's start with what common mistakes do you see people make on Pinterest? So right off the bat, they, you know, and, and we talk a lot about this, I feel like with Facebook ads, you know, people getting the Facebook ads, realizing it's a little harder than they thought, or they make, you know, certain mistakes and they just give up.
00:16:30
Speaker
Is there something similar on Pinterest? Do you see people making the same mistakes on Pinterest and getting discouraged and just giving up from there? Before I tell you about my three common mistakes, I will say that you have to have a business profile. It's not an option if you're using Pinterest for any business capacity, it's in the TOS. But the great benefit of having the business profile is that you get a little profile window where you can
00:16:57
Speaker
tell what you're about, I like to recommend people use that small real estate to link to their opt-in freebie. And then, of course, you want a picture that relates to your other platforms, the one that, you know, whether it's your logo, your face. So that's the first thing. But I think the three most common mistakes that people are making is they don't have Pinterest optimized images. And we'll talk about that. They're using keywords wrong and they aren't consistent. So those are the main three things. And I think
00:17:24
Speaker
Pinterest images have changed a lot, especially in the last year. Pinterest platform prefers a two to three ratio. So basically the number they're giving us is 600 by 900 pixels. It doesn't have to be 600 by 900, but 600 by 900 is a two to three ratio. And so in the past, you've seen these super, super long pins. It might be like a bunch of collage pictures stacked on top. And I mean, I talked to them at headquarters about this.
00:17:52
Speaker
They're annoyed with that. They think that it's basically like a really spammy billboard that's like taking over the platform. So they're really working hard on cracking down on those large images and demoting them in the smart feed. So what's important for you to know about images is that 600 by 900 ratio and a text overlay. So for example... And a text overlay, okay. Right. So texts and they've done research on this.
00:18:17
Speaker
Pins that have a text, like something that's useful, like how to make XYZ, get more clicks than pictures without. So when I think about the home decor field, I mean, that's one that has a lot of visuals. You might have a beautifully styled room. If you have a beautifully styled room, but no text, the user's much more likely to save that to their boards, to use that as inspiration. But if you have an image of a beautifully styled living room and you put some text that says,
00:18:44
Speaker
how to achieve the farmhouse look. People are much more likely to click. You're giving them context to say, hey, there's information behind this. So there's a little bit of a difference between, I guess almost a strategy there, like if there's no text, people will pin it and save it, but they won't necessarily click. So it's really the text that gets them to click through. Yeah, it's like that subtle psychology, subtle call to action that they can get more information than just this picture.
00:19:14
Speaker
they're going to be able to grab content from it. Those are the main things I would say about the Pinterest images. And I think in the past, people have gone, go big or go home and they make these really long pins. And I'm here to tell you that the platform is actively cracking down on those long pins. So don't fall into that trap. Really focus on 600 and 900, some say up to 600 to 1260. But
00:19:39
Speaker
Yes, you can use up to 1260 but I talked to the guy there and he just feels like, you know, don't go big, be useful, like make use of that space. So that's the number one mistake. So number one mistake just is images and the important things are two by three ratio, text overlay to get people to actually click. Yeah.
00:20:04
Speaker
And I think in the B2B world, like the world that you and I are in giving content information, it's super obvious, like on the pen you might want to have, and you also want to have your logo on the pen. And well, and as we get more into this, like, you know, you work with brands, your pens need to have a consistency. So every pen doesn't have to be the same, but you want to be able to eventually see like, oh, this is a Davey, like this is a Davey pen. Like we really recognize that as his brand.
00:20:32
Speaker
Mine are often like feminine. I use the same fonts and I kind of vary them a bit, but you start to see a theme in my pens. So that's going to be one of my new goals is to have a Davey pen. Like people get on Pinterest and be like, yeah, that was Davey. That would be, I don't even know what would have, yeah, that would be, that would be something that's important. I think too. And that's kind of like a little bit more higher level, but, um, yeah, so those images are super important. And I think the second most common mistake is key wording. So.
00:21:00
Speaker
You can't just plop a pin on Pinterest and hope that it takes off. You really have to be intentional about those keywords. So this is where I feel like Pinterest is more related to SEO. And so my recommendation for people is do not keyword stuff. This is another thing at Pinterest headquarters I talked about. They're going to be, the algorithm is getting smarter. It's figuring out when people just shove keywords into a pin description. So like for example,
00:21:26
Speaker
for a pin like mine, don't do Pinterest marketing, Pinterest tips, Pinterest for business. Like that's not going to get you anywhere. I recommend using a two to three keyword rich sentence with hashtags. So what I mean is I'll say, are you looking for the best Pinterest marketing strategy in this blog post? Cause the pin will lead to a blog post. I'm sharing how to use hashtags on Pinterest. And then I'll follow up with a few hashtags like Pinterest tips, Pinterest marketing, et cetera, et cetera.
00:21:56
Speaker
And in that description, I've got the keywords like Pinterest marketing, Pinterest tips, hashtags on Pinterest, but I also have a call to action. I still, I'm letting them know that there's a blog post behind this pin that is going to give you more tools and be more practical for the problem you're having, which might be how to use hashtags on Pinterest. So it's not, it's, yeah, it's really all about using those keywords, but also in a way that you're softly calling them. If you have a shop, you might say,
00:22:25
Speaker
looking for the best party decor ideas. In this blog post, I'm sharing how to throw the best princess party, come shop with us, et cetera, et cetera. So it helps you kind of know, okay, if I click on this pin, there's a whole shop of stuff that might help me pull together this princess party that I've been trying to play in. So you're giving them more context by using that pin description.
00:22:48
Speaker
So when we're working on SEO and we're working on our blog, we do plenty of keyword research. Is there a way to do keyword research on Pinterest or not so much? I think that those preliminary keywords that you're using for SEO are still useful on Pinterest. But the best way to find the keywords to use on Pinterest is to use the search bar. So for example, let's say,
00:23:17
Speaker
Let's do like birthday party. So if you put in Prince, let's say we're going to do a princess birthday party, you start, you're having a boy, right? Okay. So we are having a boy. So I'm guessing there's not going to be much Pinterest. I mean, I'm sorry, princess birthday parties. Yeah, I have three daughters. So if you start searching dinosaur party, just like on Google, Pinterest will start to auto populate ideas for you to search. And there's auto populations of keyword
00:23:45
Speaker
search queries are the types of things that you wanna take home and put into what I call a keyword bank. So I have a file, you could use Trello or just a Google Doc where you start to insert the types of keywords that you're gonna use over and over for your content. And then when you search like dinosaur birthday party and click enter on the Pinterest Smart Feed, it's gonna give you all these little sub keywords. So they're like in little boxes right below the search feed and it might have boy's birthday party or it might have dinosaur,
00:24:14
Speaker
party favors, things like that. So you can start to get a better idea of what the keyword search terms people are using on Pinterest, because you want to use the search terms that people on Pinterest are using. I think there is going to be overlap between Google and Pinterest, but there's not any really sophisticated way that I'm aware of seeing volume. So you know, in SEO, you'd be like,
00:24:36
Speaker
A thousand people use this. I would assume that there is, like you mentioned, some similarity between the volume you would see when doing keyword research for a Google search versus the volume that you would see somebody searching on Pinterest. I'm sure it doesn't exactly line up, but I would imagine that it's somewhat similar. The tools are better to use for SEO. I mean, there's just better tools. There's more money behind it.
00:25:03
Speaker
I think you get a little bit more exact data, but I think those ballpark terms are similar. I mean, honestly, people use Google to search for Pinterest ideas. Many times they'll like go and start on Google and end up on the Pinterest platform. So there's even connection there. You can't go from Pinterest to Google, but being on Pinterest will actually improve your Google results.
00:25:28
Speaker
So yeah. So do you have a, you had mentioned that you keep track of these keywords and you said you do that in Trello. Do you have like a template for people that they can use or have you? I've actually thought about developing a small little, I mean small like little mini course to kind of help people
00:25:48
Speaker
do that research and then develop that. So that, if I wasn't moving cross country right now, I probably wouldn't have that finished. But yeah. Well, when you do that, let me know and I'll make sure that I put it in the show notes and I'll make sure we announce that because I'm sure people like me were sitting here thinking like, okay, I need to figure out how to do that, how to keep track of these things. Yeah. And also I recommend having like a hashtag bank. So hashtag started being used on Pinterest in August. In the past, they've always
00:26:14
Speaker
last August, they've always been kind of a no-no on the platform, but now they're recommending them and hashtags are clickable. So if, for example, you have hashtag Vanessa Kynes and you see one of my pins and you click on that hashtag, what's gonna happen is all the other pins that I've pinned with that hashtag are gonna populate. So it's a great way to kind of see either more of an idea, whether it was birthday party, to see other people using that term or a way for people to have access
00:26:44
Speaker
to my information all at once. They're pretty useful. They're not used in the same way that you would see on Instagram, for example. It's a little different. Awesome. We have images. We have keywords. What's number three? Consistency. I think people plop a pin at once and call it good. It's not good. You need to be a little bit more strategic there.
00:27:08
Speaker
Pinterest, like every other platform, they know when you're using them and they know when you're not. In my opinion, it's not super hard to be consistent if you're using one of my favorite tools, which is Tailwind, which is a Pinterest and Instagram scheduler, and I use every single day.
Effective Tools for Pinterest Management
00:27:27
Speaker
Tailwind is an approved Pinterest partner, so you don't have to worry about whether it's allowed. In fact, Pinterest themselves, there was recently a webinar said,
00:27:36
Speaker
It doesn't matter if you pin live or use a Pinterest scheduler. It's all the same. So basically, they want you pinning as little as five pins a day instead of like 70 in one week. They would much rather you be consistent on the platform daily than to what I like to call a binge pin. So I think that's where busy entrepreneurs have to decide, how am I going to be consistent? Am I going to come on live during Pinterest-optimized times? Which is another thing to highlight.
00:28:06
Speaker
You do want to pin at the optimal times for your account and I'm gonna go ahead and say generally it's in the evening when people are using Pinterest. So if you can't as a busy business owner or you don't have office hours during that time get on Pinterest to pin those then that's where I would really recommend using a scheduler. Now I do just as a short plug I do have a lot of tutorials on my website at VanessaKynes.com on how to use Tailwind because it's a little bit tricky and I also have a course that you can use to basically really maximize that effort.
00:28:36
Speaker
But I just would really recommend whether you're pinning live or you're using a scheduler just to be consistent on the platform. Yeah, no, that makes sense. We use, I think, Later for Instagram. It makes it easy in that respect. But there's always some concern. And we use CoSchedule for our blog. But there's always some concern about, okay, well, if we post something through CoSchedule, is Facebook going to
00:28:58
Speaker
throttle that post more than if we actually went on the Facebook app and posted something. And I know there's a lot of people out there that think that they do, even though I think Facebook has come out and said that they actually don't. So that's good to know. And I have heard that Tailwind is the Pinterest tool from a number of different people. So we'll have to check that out. Yeah. There are other ones that you can use, but there might be one other that I don't think a lot of people use that is Pinterest approved.
00:29:28
Speaker
but the other one, we'll just call it the other, the other one that people use, I think in our world and our niche isn't Pinterest approved. And so whether, I mean, it does work, but I just, I don't really see a huge advantage to using that because I think Tailwind offers a lot more features. So, and I work closely with Tailwind. I mean, I'm not like an employee, but I know that they're a great product and they really care about their product. And when they have maintenance issues, they really respond.
00:29:58
Speaker
But either way, fine. If you want a live pin, you just really have to get on the platform and send a timer every day and get on and do it. So that's the most important feature. Yeah, and I gotta imagine that for Tailwind, there's probably a way to upload a bunch of pins and then set when they're going to be scheduled instead of having to...
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So I think all the Instagram schedulers now, you don't have to push through anymore, right? Yeah, exactly. They cannot auto they can auto post, they got rid of a couple annoying things, like for instance, like, so or something annoying that they just that they just did, you can't tag people, like it used to be you could look up people's handles within the whatever app you're using, whether it be planning or later, whatever. Now you can't do that. So you don't have to double check your work, you know, afterwards, make sure you tag the right people. But that's besides the point.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say Tailwind basically has a queue. You can tell it how many times a day you want it to pin. You throw all those pins up. So for example, if you want to get like a whole month's worth of pins, you just throw them on the queue, you can shuffle it and then set it and forget it. I mean, and that's what I do. In fact, right now, because we're in such a busy season of life for my own personal account, I think I'm scheduled all the way through the end of June. So if life hits sick kids or, um, holidays,
00:31:12
Speaker
You know that your account is staying active and it's just brilliant. I love it.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah, we'll definitely have to look into that as we expect our first. This might even be my last interview, pre-baby, not last interview ever, but last interview pre-having a kid. So moving on, we talked about three common mistakes and they were around optimizing images, they were around keywords and consistency. And so now let's move into what strategies you see working
00:31:44
Speaker
on Pinterest this year in 2018. Yeah. So there have been a few changes to Pinterest in 2018. And I think we've mentioned like Pinterest has been really transparent and they really want people to understand the platform. So there's been a few things. The first thing I would highlight, the number one strategy, well, other than what we just mentioned, those three common mistakes is consistency. And we talked a little bit about that. In 2018, they introduced the following tab. So
00:32:13
Speaker
The following tab is actually a separate tab on the Pinterest platform. It's like a little icon of two people. And what it is is you get to see the content that's most freshly pinned from the people that you follow. And so whether people are using it a lot, I don't know because it's hard for me to remember how someone uses Pinterest as a common user versus the way I think about it. But that new follower tab is basically kind of reintroducing the social aspect of Pinterest.
00:32:39
Speaker
For example, if I know I love your content, everything you produce weekly, it's going to give me more opportunity to see the stuff that you come out with. And they've also introduced this new first five pins of the day are going to be prioritized. And we've asked the Pinterest strategists of the world have asked a lot of questions from Pinterest about that. And what they basically mean is the first five pins that you pin at the UTC, at midnight UTC.
00:33:06
Speaker
UTC is somewhere over, I think the ocean between America and the UK. So you need to look up your UTC time for your time zone for the East coast. I think it's eight for me. It's 5pm and you want to pin your top pins after 5pm. So like between five and let's say six, 30 or seven. So if you have fresh content, you would either come online, which we've mentioned is a little bit tedious, or you would use tailwind to schedule that fresh content of the day.
00:33:33
Speaker
at around 5 p.m. And so Pinterest is going to prioritize that pin. It also aligns well with the highest traffic time that users are using Pinterest, so that Pinterest optimized time to get your content in front of those people.
00:33:47
Speaker
So that really, really relates to the the following tab and not so much the smart feed. But I can tell you that when you pin new content, Pinterest goes wild, they want to share it with people. So you do get kind of a boost for being new content. I think that should be so encouraging for people who, you know, especially because I don't think Google necessarily goes wild in the same way.
00:34:09
Speaker
You spend hours maybe writing a blog post and you post it and it might be six months until that blog post is ranking for whatever keywords in Google if it ranks on the first page at all. I think it's refreshing to hear that there's this platform out there that goes wild about new content and wants to connect people with it. It just sounds like there's so much opportunity there. We really don't want the same material to be recycled over and over again. They're really into having new content, which
The Importance of Fresh Content on Pinterest
00:34:33
Speaker
makes sense.
00:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's awesome. One question I was going to ask about the following tab. Do you think that there should people be worried about that? You know, I mean, not not worry. What I mean is you don't have a lot of followers? No, not that necessarily. Like should people be trying to get more followers?
00:34:50
Speaker
If you think about Instagram, where it's kind of about the people that are following you, you want more followers because otherwise people don't see the content you're putting out there. Whereas with Pinterest, people can see the content you're putting out there even if they're not following you. Do you think that there should be an effort to get people to follow you or do you think it should just be, hey, focus on Pinterest strategies that get your content out there and the followers will come?
00:35:16
Speaker
I do. And I think that people say followers don't matter on Pinterest. They don't matter in the same way that they do on Instagram. When you go to Instagram, it's like super obvious. The number, the metric is like front and center. It's a little bit more hidden on Pinterest. It's not like the first thing that you see. But the reason why I recommend it, and I think it's important to kind of, it's like your email list, like getting people to follow you means that they're more likely to see your content as it continues to roll out. And those people are more likely to revisit your page.
00:35:44
Speaker
So some of the, um, one of the tactics I've just recommended for people with the new falling tab is like in your email list to, um, tell people to follow you and Pinterest on your website. You can use, if you're using WordPress, I don't know anything beyond, you know, I don't know that much about Squarespace. You can put a widget of like your profile, your Pinterest profile with some of your content, or you can use some of these Sumo apps or whatever that say, Hey, come follow me. And I think the reason why it's important isn't,
00:36:11
Speaker
so much for all the random people out there. It's for the people who are already paying attention to you and it just basically keeps them in the loop. And so that's why I think it's important. Now if you, the other place where I would say followers matter, and maybe it's not as applicable in our niche, is if you are working as an influencer. So influencers absolutely count all those numbers across all the platforms. So if you say you have 50,000 followers on Pinterest and have clients that do, you get
00:36:39
Speaker
more money for your influencing products. So it matters there, but it's going to be hard to get 50,000 followers these days because it's just clunky. Yeah. And I guess like you said, it really does matter what kind of industry or sphere you're in. So obviously it would matter a little bit more for an influencer than maybe a wedding photographer. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:02
Speaker
So going back to those Pinterest strategies, one of the things that I was gonna recommend is creating multiple pins for the same blog post. So like for example, I usually create two pins per blog post. I could go to a third, but at this point, I actually have a VA who's helping me create those. And they have... And you're moving. Well, yeah. And you're spending time moving. And I have three small children and five, right? But we do what you can do. But I recommend at least two.
00:37:29
Speaker
They're different. They have different images. They sometimes have a slightly different call to action on them or text. Right now, I'm using the same pin description for both those just to keep it simple. So what I'm doing is A, B testing an image. If it has the same pin description, then it's more about what type of image appealed to the pinner. And I actually have seen one style that I'm doing that really gets a lot of clicks. So it's interesting and I've started to repeat that style. So there are things that you can do.
00:37:57
Speaker
Now, Pinterest has said, and I think it's a great idea, it's just hard to measure, is they said change the pin description for each pin. So by changing the pin description, you have a greater overall SEO effect on that pin. Okay. More complicated, also very difficult to measure unless if you have two different images and two different pin descriptions, it's difficult to know what was doing well. What's working well.
00:38:22
Speaker
That's another strategy that I think a lot of people don't think about. So creating multiple pins isn't that much more effort for one piece of content. You sort of just mentioned this, but do you have a certain pin format that you use that you find works well?
00:38:38
Speaker
Can you clarify what you mean by pin format? So like how you create your image and the kind of text you use, that sort of thing. I mean, I know we talked about the two by three ratio and all of that, but is there anything else that you do to make your pins more clickable? So one of the type, well, I have stock images, I actually have my own
00:38:58
Speaker
set of sock images that have me working on a desk and, you know, hands close up. So I tend to have one pin image. It's just a solid background and it's usually the hex codes of my colorings, pinks, blushes, kind of like ivories. And I'll just put plain text. It's sometimes a little icon and I'm doing this all or my assistant's doing this all on Canva. I think the advantage for people in your field is they're really good at design things. So you can really take off with this. And then the second
00:39:26
Speaker
pin image will usually just be like a stock photo and then like maybe I'll change the opacity and kind of lighten it up and just start text. But I will say that I'm starting to see more people's faces on Pinterest. In the past, people haven't used faces on their pins, but I'm starting to see more of that. And I don't think it's a bad strategy. I can't prove that it's going to be super successful. But again, it's kind of like developing that visibility on Pinterest. Like you start to see that person's face over and ever again, you're going to know it's their content.
00:39:56
Speaker
It's a lot of it is just testing in this world. I mean, when you're in a different market, like food, obviously you want great pictures of the food, but whatever you do, I would just make sure that they're branded. So you throw your logo or some kind of sub logo so that people begin to see that pen and that logo and associate it with you.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, and you had mentioned Canva, so anybody listening that doesn't consider themselves necessarily a designer or you don't know how to use the Adobe Suite, Canva is a great resource for you. And then I'm sure there's a bunch of you out there listening who are, you know, wizards in the Adobe Suite. I roll in over Canva. Yeah, exactly. We can't all be designers. Yeah, but Canva is a great alternative. So what's next? Yeah, so, you know, keywords are not just for paid descriptions.
00:40:42
Speaker
You can use keywords in other places, and you do want to use them. You want to use them in your profile. So for example, my profile is Vanessa Kynes, my name, Pinterest Marketing Strategist, because that adds a keyword to my profile.
Boosting Pinterest Visibility with Keywords
00:40:54
Speaker
You want to make sure those keywords are also in your board, so you can edit your... I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? Vanessa Kynes, Pinterest Marketing Strategist. So if someone starts searching Pinterest Marketing, that one of the search results can actually be my profile. So it's important to include it there.
00:41:11
Speaker
And then also in the profile, which is a really small amount of space, and I recommend, you know, I might say, I can't even remember what mine says, but you know, Pinterest marketing tips for the creative entrepreneur, grab my free Pinterest startup guide, and then I'll include a little link to where they can get my opt-in freebie. I think that's important as people land on your site that it's an easy way for them to opt-in. But then also people forget to add keywords to their boards.
00:41:36
Speaker
You can have a board and let's say it's all about Pinterest marketing. You can edit it and throw in keywords. And this is where I'll put Pinterest tips, Pinterest marketing. It's not like the style and the pen where you add a call to action. It's just literal keywords and then choose a category. So I would say there's not a great category for people like you and me. And so I always use technology.
00:41:55
Speaker
But actually, for wedding photographers, you could choose weddings, things like that. Sure. Are there a certain amount of keywords per board that you recommend? Because you had mentioned earlier not the keyword stuff, for sure. Yeah. I would say pick five. Don't go overboard. I mean, if there are a lot of keywords that relate to the content, there's only so many ways you can write Pinterest marketing for me.
00:42:20
Speaker
But the reason why you want to do that is boards are searchable. So they're less likely to be searched. I think there's a statistic like maybe only 20% of the time. But by key writing the board, what you're doing is giving more context to the pen. So that pen is in that board, is attached to that board. So it tells Pinterest, there's keywords in the pen and there's keywords in the board. And it gives it more metadata to properly place that pen in a search card.
00:42:49
Speaker
So again, it's just a different way of giving more context to that pin. And the more information you can give that search feed, the better you're going to get results. And I will say that Pinterest has changed a lot. Now they've kind of gone back and forth. They have now put on there where you can follow boards. They took it away for a while and now it's back.
00:43:12
Speaker
you'll see in the Pinterest Smart Feed, like, hey, follow this board, it's all about Pinterest marketing, and click on Follow That. And so when someone follows that, you get a follower on your account, but then also they could go through that board and find a ton of your content as well as other relating content. So I think it's important, and people forget about that aspect at Pinterest. Yeah, and my last thing for Pinterest 2018 is to make sure your website is Pinterest friendly. And what I mean is that you have a pin
00:43:43
Speaker
on your blog post that is Pinterest friendly because you want people doing the marketing for you. You want someone to land on their website, whether they're coming in from Facebook or Instagram or even your email list and to save it to the Pinterest platform. So that's important.
Creating a Pinterest-Friendly Website
00:44:00
Speaker
What are some ways that you can make your website Pinterest marketing friendly?
00:44:04
Speaker
Well, one of the ways is downloading, again, I don't know that much about the other platforms, but for WordPress, and I assume this is similar to ShowIt because it's based on WordPress, is that you can download a plugin. I think mine's called the jQuery plugin. It's a free little plugin that hovers that little Pinterest thing above the image. ShowIt probably has all these like beautiful little pin style buttons you can use. I mean, and then the other thing I do is I'll write a blog post and I have a pin at the very bottom.
00:44:32
Speaker
And I tell people to pin it. I'm like, did you like this content? Pin it. You're just subtly telling them what to do. But by doing that, they do it. And so they're sending it to their account. And then, of course, it's going to exponentially spread across their account. So I think that's super important to do. And people forget about that aspect. So make it Pinterest friendly.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I think people also forget about the call to action aspect of things. We, I know, include a Pinterest image at the very bottom of blog posts, but now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think we ever tell people, hey, pin that specific, go pin that. It's one of those silly things, but the truth is that if you don't tell people to take an action, they just won't take an action.
00:45:16
Speaker
So I think one of the things that you've really reiterated is especially, you know, something that's really stood out to me is having that text overlay on the image. More people might pin the image if it doesn't have the text, but not as many people are going to click. I think that's so important, especially for somebody like a wedding photographer. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but I would assume that a lot of people go online as they're planning their weddings and pin all these images, you know, that, oh, I want, you know, as inspiration for their own wedding.
00:45:45
Speaker
But what a wedding photographer wants is somebody not only to pin this beautiful image that they took to use for inspiration for their own wedding, but to actually click through and go to that blog post and land on that person's, on that photographer's website and potentially inquire. Yeah. And I've done consulting for wedding photographers and I think it actually is both a very popular field on Pinterest, but also kind of tricky. So here's some of the tips since it sounds like you have people in that niche.
00:46:15
Speaker
One of the tips is think about where your bride is. If it's August and she's pitting, you don't wanna be pinning content about the fall. She's not planning a fall wedding, she's planning a summer wedding. I don't know, people about a year ahead. So think about two seasons away. So for example, if you wanna create content for your wedding website, create content about the top summer bouquets and pull up pictures that you've taken, use your own content, be very careful about other people's content of the top summer bouquets
00:46:45
Speaker
And then at the end of that blog post, create a little collage or just like pick your favorite one and throw up like inspiration for the top summer blooms. I mean, just totally guessing here and think about where your bride is. She's not searching for fall stuff in the fall. She's actually searching for summer and spring and summer. So think about where she is. I think that's one major tip that dawned on me when I was working with wedding people because people are searching for ideas in the future.
00:47:10
Speaker
Another thing is I think wedding photographers often just pin a bunch of images with nothing on them like you mentioned. And I think that's dangerous because those are going to get saved and some other wedding photographer is going to create that image for them. So it's important to have some kind of text overlay. Another thing that I think is important for local-based businesses is to use local keywords.
00:47:32
Speaker
So for example, if you're interested in clients in the greater Virginia area, then you'd want to use keywords in your description like DC bride or Northern Virginia bride, et cetera, et cetera. So my business is based on locality, but a lot of people do have businesses based on locality and you need to take advantage of those keywords. And then of course, once they land on your website, you need to make capture those leads easily and quickly, whether it's through like
00:48:01
Speaker
Contact page or and I would recommend and I think a lot of people do this How did you hear from us and making sure that Pinterest is one of those options so that you can? Slightly, you know that completely but you can slightly start to develop data. I'm like, oh this has been working for me to find new clients
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah, anybody who's a regular listener to this podcast or reads our blog knows that I am all about the how did you hear about us tracking your inquiries. Again, it's something that I've come to appreciate about you is how data-driven you are. So I hope that everybody out there listening, if you don't have a how did you hear about us question on your contact form, you need to have one. You need to know where people are coming from, where to credit referrals, all of that.
00:48:45
Speaker
So I love that you bring that up. So we had mentioned Tailwind. So one of the things that I wanted to wrap up was just asking what tools are out there that make it easier. Is Tailwind really the tool or are there other things that people should be aware of? I mean, I know how to use the other tools and sometimes I've inherited clients who are already using them and so if it doesn't, if it isn't broke, don't fix the type thing. But I would say like going forward Tailwind,
00:49:11
Speaker
They're introducing all kinds of new options and one of those is looping which is what makes like board booster, for example, really popular people like the looping feature. But I will say looping is one of those interesting things. So looping means it takes a pin that you've already pinned and just kind of like repushes it out. But according to Pinterest, they're not really interested in old content being recirculated. So that's a big question mark on whether that even is the most, that is a really important strategy.
00:49:35
Speaker
But yeah, so Tailwind allows you to schedule a queue. And like I mentioned, I'm scheduled all the way through the end of June right now because my life is really busy. I'm more careful with my clients queue than I am with my own because that's just common, right? Like the college shoes, kids don't have shoes type thing. But yeah, it allows you to schedule it out. There's also an important feature we haven't talked about, which is Tailwind tribes. So Tailwind tribes are basically
00:50:04
Speaker
niche related groups where you can add your content in exchange for pinning someone else's content. So for example, if you're in a mastermind or you're in a group of people who you really trust their content and you know it's going to relate with your audience, you guys could start a Tailwind tribe and as those pins go live or those blog posts go live, throw up your pin, someone else is going to pin it for you in your niche. And so it basically helps the virality of the pin because you're going to get eyeballs on that pin right away and get people sharing it right away.
00:50:33
Speaker
So I think that's another, yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt. So a tailwind tribe would be similar to like an Instagram pod or a commenting pod, something like that, where you're basically helping each other out by getting more visibility. So for Instagram, I guess the concept is you go and comment on somebody else's post so that it bumps their posts in the algorithm. So a tailwind tribe would be comparable to that.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think it's more powerful. So if we were in a tribe together with like five other people, I would pop my content up on that that week. You know, it's good content. You know that Vanessa, or you would say to yourself, I know Vanessa produces good stuff. I'm not putting junk up on my queue. So you, you could go and schedule that to several of your boards and then pop it into your queue. And then, and likewise, I would go and do that as well.
00:51:21
Speaker
but it's more than just commenting like a, like an Instagram pod. It's basically pushing that content out to all these other people. I feel like a Instagram pod kind of benefits that one person, but Tailwind tribe actually benefits many people. And there's all kinds of Tailwind tribes for niches. I think you can get small. Like we mentioned, like maybe people you really trust, but you could be part of many. You could be part of one that's like for wedding, um, wedding specialists, or you could be in one for,
00:51:51
Speaker
digital marketing strategies, people. There's kind of different broads. So you can get really specific in your own tribe and then you can also have many other tribes of people who maybe you only know through the interwebs. But they're sharing your content as well. It's just a great way to collaborate and to get more virality on those pens. So I have a lot of blog posts on Tailwind tribes if you're a little bit confused, but it's basically just a way to share other people's content. And I think it protects you because
00:52:18
Speaker
If you go to the Pinterest platform and schedule from Pinterest onto Tailwind, you might end up pinning something that is spammy. You might pin something that leads to a spam website. I think there's more protection on Tailwind tribes because they're active Tailwind users who are leading to good content. So I think there's even a little bit more protection there that you're not gonna pin something that's spammy. And is a Tailwind tribe created within Tailwind? Yes, yes. Okay.
00:52:48
Speaker
You get a certain amount with your, so it's a subscription based, it's like $10 to $15 a month. It's worth it, like 10 bucks. Like that's nothing. And you get a certain amount of Taehwin tribes free and submissions. And then you can power up, like get more submissions.
00:53:03
Speaker
I think most of my clients, I powered up because I use tone a lot, but most of my clients haven't powered up and it's been just fine. Okay, awesome. Yeah, so another difference there is Instagram pod, something like that would be kind of this loose connection of people. There's no really formal arrangement, whereas it sounds like for Tailwind, this is all done through the Tailwind app. Yeah, yeah. So it makes it super easy. So just even thinking about the workflow, what I have a whole YouTube, I'm on YouTube as well, if you're a visual person,
00:53:31
Speaker
but I have a whole workflow. So I'll take a new piece of content. Let's say I just published a blog post. I will get on Tailwind and I will schedule it to the relevant boards that it relates to. And right there is a little add to tribes. Like you're doing this all at once and I'll just go ahead and click it and add it to tribes. So, you know, really I'm just taking a few minutes as a blog post goes live to get it both on tribes and also scheduled on my Tailwind queue. So it just becomes like a habitual like quick habit thing to get that pin out.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yeah, and so one thing that you mentioned was your YouTube channel. You mentioned a couple times you have a bunch of blog posts on a lot of the subjects that we talked about. And I can attest to that. I remember one of the reasons that I thought to ask you on the podcast was because cat our friend catch lawyer had posted on Facebook about teaching Matt
00:54:19
Speaker
how to, her husband Matt had come on full time with Kat, relatively recently, in the last year or so, teaching him how to use Pinterest. And so there was some jokes going on about that, but Kat had mentioned that Matt had used your YouTube videos to learn. So I can attest that there's some great resources out there that you've provided on Tailwind, on Pinterest, and the subtopics that we've talked about today. What are some other things that people can do to connect with you?
00:54:49
Speaker
Well, if you go to my website at VanessaKynes.com, at the top, you can opt into my free Pinterest startup guide, which is basically, I think it's about five to 10 pages, and it kind of goes through each category to get you thinking about how to start your Pinterest strategy for your business.
Resources and Guides from Vanessa Kynes
00:55:07
Speaker
So by opting into that, you're also going to opt into my newsletter. And I mean, I write weekly. I think I've only taken two weeks off.
00:55:13
Speaker
really want to protect that tribe. I respond to emails. Um, if you follow me on Instagram, you're probably going to get like kid videos. And, um, so I'm not as active there for, um, content, but I think if you subscribe to my email, um, you're going to get what you need and you're also going to get updates. So I mean, I have my ear close to the ground and when something changes about the platform, I'm writing on it. And, um, I can mention the next two weeks, I'm going to be back at Pinterest headquarters for,
00:55:41
Speaker
they're in the making content workshop. So if there's anything new that they're presenting, I'm going to be writing about it. So I think it's just, you know, by niching down, I can really be focused on one platform and not worry about all the global changes across all of them. So I'm just here to help you. And I really want to be practical and helpful. So
00:56:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I have a feeling that we could, that this episode, if we let it, would last like five hours. You know, there's just so much, there's so much that we could dive into, but fortunately there's so much good stuff on your site. And maybe I'll check in with you after you go back to Pinterest headquarters, and I'm sure you would be writing about some of the things that you learned there, and we'll link to that in the show notes of this episode so that you can get up-to-date information from Vanessa about the latest trends and strategies from Pinterest themselves.
00:56:30
Speaker
So thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. I mean, I know moving, um, I've talked about this too, uh, because there was another, another guest that was moving, uh, um, Michaela, but anyways, um, it's the, one of the worst things ever, in my opinion, I hate moving. I hate packing. I know. I actually listened to one of your episodes with Raina recently and you were saying, I wish it's the thing that you could outsource. And I, you know, I think you just have to, that's when automating is so important and, you know, having automating strategies in your business for whatever.
00:57:00
Speaker
you're using for just makes life a little bit less chaotic. Give yourself grace and know that it's a short season. Good luck to you. I hate moving, but I'm guessing that with three young kids around, it's probably no better. I love my husband and he really wants to take this year, so I'm just going with it.
00:57:25
Speaker
Well, we'll be sure to link to a number of your different resources in the show notes, so be sure to check that out and be sure to head on over and check out everything that Vanessa has to offer around Pinterest, especially because there's just so much opportunity there. So, thank you.
00:57:44
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to devianchrista.com.