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Episode 348: Gotta get going at some point
69 Plays3 years ago
Overall, the Sounders had a pretty good week. But they ended it with a loss in a perfectly winnable road game. That's not a disaster but it does continue a trend of not playing well for sustained periods.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fullpool's unique writing styles applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving, turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Meet the Seattle Sounders Stars
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye-bye!
MLS Cup Victory and Team Legacy
00:00:46
Speaker
The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win!
00:00:52
Speaker
important the KSA's genius. Here comes Rui Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle. They have climbed the mountain and now are masters of all that they survey. Michael Odero leaves absolutely no doubt the Saldars rule the region. Seattle Saldars is convinced
00:01:18
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. How does this one feel?
Scenic Seattle
00:01:26
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills the greenest green in Seattle.
00:01:53
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking? I have no idea. I don't know.
00:02:04
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Full Pool Wines and our newest sponsor Watson's Counter.
Current Season Challenges and Standings
00:02:09
Speaker
This is episode 348 and we're recording on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022. I am your host, Jeremiah O'Shan, joining me as usual is Aaron Campo and Likit. So here we are. Sounders are 12th in the West, just five points out of seventh and nine points out of fourth, but they do have two games in hand. They're coming off a loss to the Colorado Rapids,
00:02:33
Speaker
which was a little frustrating. I thought that they were ripe for beating, but the Rapids had a 23 game home unbeaten streak, or they extended their home unbeaten streak to 23 games and kind of see why. They're a decent defensive team, but it was a frustrating game. And I think that's a good place for us to start.
Regular Season Performance and Potential
00:02:57
Speaker
The Sounders got two wins earlier in the week. They've sort of stabilized things. They've got 23 games left, so lots of time left. 13 of those are at home. Another reason to be sort of optimistic about all of this. And yet,
00:03:17
Speaker
the centers haven't really hit their stride in league play, you know, putting aside the champions league was great. They'll get me wrong. I think we know how good this team can be, but they do need to start kind of like putting results together in the regular season too, right?
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean I think that we, we had a question last week for two weeks ago whenever it was about, you know, from the next four games what seems like a decent number of points and I think we came down on seven.
00:03:50
Speaker
could be a lot worse, right? And they've got one game left and- And it's a home game against Charlotte, which is definitely, you figure you gotta win that one. Yep, you definitely do. And so, you know, it's not bad, right? Like nine points from four games, if they win against Charlotte, that's pretty good. That's a pretty good pace. You gotta feel pretty good about that pace, but I don't think that they have at any point
00:04:16
Speaker
the season looked as good as we know they can look. And I think that that's the frustrating thing. Now, I don't think they've looked bad. I think that a lot of people have kind of overreacted to the performances. I thought they looked fine against Minnesota. Minnesota is not as bad as the record. I think they're a solid team.
00:04:34
Speaker
Um, and there, there were a lot of people saying it was a, uh, you know, a pretty uninspired performance. I didn't feel that way at all. Um, I think against Houston, it's a Wednesday night midweek against Houston in May. It was 90, whatever degrees a kickoff. You take three points and you don't really look a gift horse in the mouth too much. Absolutely. Like if you get, uh, if you get three points on the road,
00:04:57
Speaker
You feel good about it. I don't care
Frustration with Unlucky Outcomes
00:04:59
Speaker
what the performance was like. I don't care who you're playing. And I think especially in that environment, midweek with. And by the way, the Dynamo went to the L.A. and 130 the next game. So like as much as we tend to think of the Dynamo as not being very good.
00:05:14
Speaker
They've been pretty good this year. They're actually in the seventh playoff spot. They are completely equal with the Rapids in pretty much every way, except they've actually scored more goals, but they've conceded the same number of goals. They have exactly the same record.
00:05:31
Speaker
They're not a bad team. And, you know, so to get a point in that or get three points in that game is a good result. The Colorado result was much more frustrating because it really felt like until Colorado scored that the Sounders were going to win that game. And the way it unfolded was extremely frustrating. You know, Jammer has been one of the most reliable defenders in the league for
00:05:54
Speaker
since he's been here, and he just had kind of a nightmare a couple of minutes that ultimately led to the goal for the rapids. Jordan Morris had a pretty brutal miss, and I think it's fair to say, at least in league play, he's had a pretty brutal season so far. He's struggled pretty bad. He's not been great at finishing, that's for sure, at the very least, I think we can say.
00:06:18
Speaker
Um, but I, and I think, you know, so that's, that's frustrating and it's, it's bound to leave a bad taste in your mouth. But I think that when you look at just the underlying performance that the sounders put in against Colorado, like it was fine. That's a really tough place to play. Uh, the rapids got pretty lucky with their goal. The sounders, I think we're pretty unlucky to not have a penalty go for them. And I think removed from the context of, you know, the rest of the regular season, that's just a result you say, wasn't our day and move on. Um, yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
You can't remove it from the context of the rest of the season, because the Sounders are currently in 12th place. They're out of the playoffs as it stands. But they do have two games in hand on most of the rest of the Western Conference. They have two games in hand on everybody, except the teams they have three games in hand on, in fact. You can never put points on the board until you play games. But if they win those two games in hand, they are in the playoffs. They're in the seventh spot in playoffs with still
00:07:15
Speaker
more than half a season to play. So I think that if they had come out and gotten four points from those two games or two points from those two games and were really struggling, then yeah, it's probably time to worry a little bit about whether or not they were gonna make the playoffs. But as frustrating as it was to get that result in Colorado when it seemed like, hey, winning three in a row was definitely on the table, and then to not get anything from it, that's a huge bummer. But ultimately, like holistically,
Optimism and Strategies for Improvement
00:07:45
Speaker
Since the since the final, things have been OK, and I think that there are definitely signs that they're going to get better. I would love to see them tighten up defensively a little bit. I'd love to see them tamp down the mistakes a little bit. I'd love to see Raul Rodriguez and Jordan Morris start scoring some goals, but. There's nothing to suggest to me that those things won't come. I would say.
00:08:07
Speaker
It's kind of a glass half full glass half empty way of looking at it. But on one hand, you know, they only have one shutout the game against or in the regular
Player Highlights and Struggles
00:08:16
Speaker
season. They only have one shutout and that game against Houston. They don't have anyone offensively who's putting up great numbers other than Nico Ledero who
00:08:26
Speaker
His numbers are his, he's been very good when he's been healthy. Uh, there's no reason to pretend otherwise. He's been, he's been very good. He's actually having like an MVP caliber season on our, on his rate numbers, uh, his scoring rate, his XG is that, you know, all that stuff. He's been very good when he's healthy. That's a positive, but.
00:08:44
Speaker
You know, Rudy Diaz hasn't really played a ton and he hasn't done a ton with his playing time. Jordan Morris is actually off to, I think at this point we can call it a slow start at the very least. He doesn't look as confident as he was pre-injury. You know, he's had, he's showing flashes. Like I think that's the encouraging thing is that are still, you can still see it. Like you can still see he's got his burst. He's, it's not like he's falling all over himself, but like, I think he is starting to like,
00:09:12
Speaker
lean back on some of the bad tendencies like oh the one that stood out to me was you know Jackson Reagan put him into space on the left wing early in the game he cuts he makes a great run he cuts in and he had if he just kind of hits a pretty basic left-footed cross two ideas I think he he's able to hit him you know as long as he hits it well he's able to hit him probably in stride but instead he sort of tries to bend it with the outside of his right boot which is
00:09:39
Speaker
not a horrible thing to try to do, but in order to do that, he has to put a lot more on it than I think you really want to put on that pass. And so he over cooks it, it goes through the box. Anyway, and I kind of feel like that was a play that he had started to get really good at pre-injury where he was hitting that left footed cross. And
00:10:03
Speaker
You know, he was a little bit more, you know, trusting of his of his body, I think a little bit there. And so I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much of that. But then also there is, like you said, the the chip miss where he just didn't really put anything on the very frustrating because he does all the right stuff. He just doesn't hit his shot very well. He kind of chunks it.
00:10:25
Speaker
And so I think I'm a little worried about that. I will say if there was one area for criticism for Brian Schmetzer in this one, I thought if you're going to go with a three back or a five back, if you're going to go with the three, four, two, one, wherever you want to call that. Right. To me, if you're going to play new who you play them at left center back.
00:10:46
Speaker
And if you, but this is also maybe a good opportunity to get Jimmy Madranta on the field. Like if you're going to play the wing backs, use your wing, like don't put new who at wing back. He's useless as a wing back. As far as I'm concerned, he's not, none of his skillsets set up well to be a left wing back, left center back. I think we've seen him be extraordinary there, but he does not add anything going forward. Uh,
00:11:09
Speaker
I don't put a lot of faith in this statistic, but there's a stack called goals added that American soccer analysis does and it tries to place a value on everything a player does. We don't haven't talked about a lot of it on this show. It's why I'm explaining it but
00:11:27
Speaker
There's a lot of they don't pass the eye test sort of results in there, but new who is ranked as something like the seventh or eighth worst player in the league by goals added, which is not like doesn't mean he's the eighth worst player in the league, but it does illustrate how a lot of what he does well.
00:11:47
Speaker
is counterbalanced by some of what he really doesn't do well. And one of the things he doesn't do well is get into the attack and do much in terms of passing. And one of the things that struck me about this game was that him and Morris combined only had something like 22 touches in the attacking third. That's just not enough. Morris only had like 12 passes. He played 80 minutes. Yeah.
00:12:13
Speaker
Like they need, I guess my point, they need more balance. I think Medranda probably could have given them more balance.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, and it's pretty crazy after so many years of seeing everything go down the left and the Sounders played so imbalanced down the left. And then to see them struggle in that way has been frustrating. And I think it's pretty indicative of Nuhu's abilities going forward that Jackson Reagan, I thought, was better attacking on the left side than Nuhu was. Jackson Reagan had a couple of extremely impressive attacking plays.
00:12:44
Speaker
I was really nervous by Jackson. The way he looks in a three-back set is actually kind of exciting because he had the freedom to sort of dribble forward and sort of make some more of those aggressive forward passes. There were a few times where he told Nuhu to stay at home and went on runs, and the Sounders, I think, looked better when they did that. And like you said, that's not
00:13:10
Speaker
That's not an indictment of new who it's just he's not being put in a position to succeed. I don't think when he's playing as a wingback, especially if he's going to be nominally asked to go forward as much as he is like he if he's going to be asked to contribute to the attack and they're not. It didn't seem like there was a tactical plan to have him play as more of like a defensive midfielder, you know, and when when they're going forward like he was attempting to play as a wingback, it's just not something he's especially well suited for.
00:13:39
Speaker
So yeah, I think that's, I mean, maybe Medranda wasn't fit enough to start. I don't know. You know, maybe there is an explanation like that, but I think I don't see any reason to think that that would be the case. So yeah, I think even the sounders may have been second guessing that one. And Brian sort of alluded to the idea that they just weren't getting enough.
00:14:03
Speaker
attacking on the left side. And they sort of needed to do that. But it was just a, it was a flat performance overall. You know, Resnak had a couple good looks that he easily could have finished. Morris obviously had some reedias, I think, did a decent job of generating some looks. But I feel like we are maybe tiptoeing around the
00:14:28
Speaker
elephant in the room and it's not, like the Sounders didn't lose this game because of referee Tim Ford, but there were a couple plays that ended up being pretty consequential. The first one was on the goal that the Rapids scored. The Sounders felt like they should have had a foul on where Diego Rubio went up for a header with Jackson Reagan, Jackson Reagan, neither one of them made contact with the ball.
00:14:55
Speaker
You know, there was some question as to whether Ruben Rubio was actually going for the ball or not. I, I, the way I felt was you see that called a lot, but VAR is never going to like.
00:15:06
Speaker
I look at the replay of that. There's no way VAR is going to call that. And there was some kind of, I think, belief that maybe Jonathan Lewis was offside on the cross, but he definitely was not. But where did you fall on that one, Aaron? I think I'm with you that maybe it's a foul that if you're complaining about giving up a goal because of that foul,
00:15:33
Speaker
You might need to be a little bit less of a baby, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. If that gets called, I think it's reasonable. Um, if it doesn't get called, it's not what I'm going to lose sleepover. And that's one that I think that a bar calls it back for that. I'm going to be happy as I understand, but I think I'm going to be able to acknowledge that. Yeah. And I don't think like I've said this a lot. Like I don't want.
00:15:59
Speaker
I feel like there needs to be a high bar to take a goal off the board. And I just don't want that to happen. I don't want that call to go against the sounders. And I think more times, I'm more worried about those calls. If we start calling that often, I feel like that's gonna... I just think it's a bad product. It's not good if we start calling that. On the other hand, I felt pretty strongly that
Controversial Penalty and VAR Debate
00:16:26
Speaker
The penalty on Ruy Diaz should have been called, and I think I was actually more frustrated by the explanation from the referees as to why they didn't call it because they seemed they basically acknowledged in their answer. I was able to submit questions as the pool reporter. They got back to me, which was great.
00:16:46
Speaker
Oftentimes, I will admit that oftentimes what happens when they get back to me on these things is they don't necessarily give me the answer I want, but they give me an answer that gives me reason to like, glad that I asked, because now they're giving me something to talk about.
00:17:02
Speaker
So basically what Tim Ford said was, yeah, we decided it was a foul, but I couldn't tell if it was in the box for sure or not. And that just is mind blowing. It's mind blowing because every angle of the replay shows to me that he's in the box.
00:17:19
Speaker
You can break it down in however many ways you want. I guess you can convince me that you don't know for sure he's in the box, but when every angle is telling you the same thing, it's pretty preponderance of evidence.
00:17:33
Speaker
Like, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's a clear penalty. And I think that if you want to feel a little bit better about it, you could maybe, you know, take solace in the fact that that's a really bad penalty to give up, but it's not like the sounders were in like a situation where they're creating a ton of danger. So, you know, maybe they're really lucky to get a penalty there and they don't, quote, deserve it, unquote, I don't know, but
00:17:59
Speaker
It's a clear penalty. It's an obvious penalty. It's a total cop-out by the referee. And I think the Occam's razor explanation is this is a referee that doesn't want Var to overrule his calls. And he found a way to have that be the case, the plausible deniability of saying, well, I couldn't tell. And I think that there are referees who see Var as a useful tool.
00:18:25
Speaker
to help them do their jobs better and more fairly call the games. And I think MLS actually does a pretty good job with VAR for the most part. And referees seem to view it that way. And then I think there are referees that I would say are more common in Europe and apparently Ford as well, who are sort of hostile towards the idea of it. And I think that that's a very obvious penalty.
00:18:52
Speaker
If to me, he's looking for a reason not to give the penalty. He 100 percent is. He doesn't want to give the penalty. And he found a reason not to. And that's. And I guess what's annoying to me is that like, just say you didn't feel like the contact was sufficient for a penalty. And that's that's a subjective decision. I'm OK. I'm not happy about it, but I can at least live with the.
00:19:20
Speaker
Like I can live with the subjective nature of it going again, but to like, I just feel like they're gaslighting us by saying like, I couldn't tell if it was in the box. What are you talking about? You can tell if it's in the box. Like, yeah, it's his left foot, which is his outside foot is barely outside the box. How do you think his right foot, like every, like,
00:19:42
Speaker
put together the angles however you want. There's no angle that shows them outside the box. They all show them close to the edge of the box, but I don't know. Again, this is not why the sounders lost. They had many opportunities to score otherwise. It would have been nice to get a result out of that. And certainly it does effectively cost the sounders a point, but
00:20:07
Speaker
I don't know. It's more the process. It's more the gas-lighty nature of the answer of saying your eyes are lying to you. It's a total insult to your intelligence to say that that's the thing. It's like you said, it's the easiest thing in the world to say, no, I just don't think that's a penalty. That's a judgment call.
00:20:31
Speaker
Whether or not it's in the box is not a judgment call I think you said that. Yeah, like it's, it is where it isn't its objective reality and there's proof that it's inside the box. And I, and I guess kind of the where I was going with that too was this should not like the objective part of that call should not be up to the.
00:20:52
Speaker
center referee, like the VAR needs to be empowered to decide like, did this happen in the box? Or did it not happen in the box? Now let's talk about whether it was not as a foul. Because first of all, it was like, it was like a three minute delay, which is too, too long. Right. And the reason it wasn't so long was because they were sitting there trying to figure out if it was in the box or not, which is bullshit to me, because that's not what like, we shouldn't be wasting our time figuring that out. And
00:21:20
Speaker
Like, I don't know, like if it didn't look like it was in the box, then the VAR shouldn't have flagged it. Yeah. And I don't think it would have. I mean, I think that that's the, that's the obvious thing there is that VAR, like VAR is not wasting referees time. Right now. Like they're either saying, here's a judgment call. We think that you should take a look at it. Or they're saying, Hey, this happened. Like, you know, and this is clearly like a, Hey, this happens situation. And.
00:21:48
Speaker
You know, he's, he's being a little baby about it, I think is, is where I come down on the issue. And I just, I can't stand that, that approach for refereeing. It's one that I think MLS used to have a pretty big problem with. And I think it's gotten a lot better, but it just seemed like he, he was just that sort of petulant kind of referee who is going to call the game in the way he's going to call it. And like.
00:22:11
Speaker
And it was an inconsistent link. I don't want to rag on the guy too much. He did not have a good game. I don't want to make him into a Bond villain or something. But he was inconsistent with the way he was giving out cards the whole game. There was one early on where Rui Diaz got pulled back and he played
00:22:34
Speaker
I guess he played advantage, but he also seemed to be indicating that he was going to give a card. But then he never gave it. And there was like all kinds of like silly things like that. I had actually forgotten about that one, but that one I think was as more as shocking, if not more shocking to me than the penalty, no call, because it was it's the textbook. Right. Like that's the value commit where you're basically just telling the referee, I know, I know I'm getting a yellow. It's worth it. Like,
00:23:04
Speaker
He saw it. Everybody knows he saw it. The broadcaster, I think Keller just said, oh, yeah, he's going to get a yellow and play. And because even he he signals advantage and then he point and then even when he's coming back, he's pointing at the guy saying like, yeah, I got like I got you. Right. Don't worry. We're getting this card and then it never comes out. And just to go back to the penalty, I think the other thing that ends up hurting the outcome is that Ford has a great view.
00:23:32
Speaker
he's in a great position to see everything. And so I think he just trusts his intuition instead of trusting what he's looking at on film. And so I think that's the, I don't know, I just don't think that, and I wanna be clear, I'm not suggesting that the center referee be disempowered from making the final decision,
00:24:01
Speaker
And I think in this case, he should have still gone to the monitor and confirmed whether or not he thought it was a foul. But what I don't think he should be able to do is sit there and debate whether a ball was in or out, whether he was independently or out of the penalty. Like we got to make these, we got to be able to make those types of decisions free from ego. You know, those need to be just like.
00:24:26
Speaker
cut and dry. We have a good angle. We have three angles of this thing. All of them are showing us essentially the same. Again, I know there was some questions like, oh, well, camera angles can kind of obscure things. And it's like, yeah, but when it's that close, at least one angle is going to make it look like it's out. But when all the angles are just varying degrees of in,
00:24:51
Speaker
It's clearly in. It is. And the account that does the Lord's work of correcting for all the camera angles and stuff. Yeah. It's pretty clearly in. Like by over a foot. Yeah. It wasn't close. Like there are certain, like, yes, for straight up offside calls where you don't have a visual reference point. Right. Right.
00:25:12
Speaker
there can be tricks of the eye and things like that, but there's literally a line right there that you can see that rotary. Painted on the ground. There's no plausible deniability here. He just didn't want to give the penalty. It's frustrating. You can think that the sounders didn't play well enough to feel
00:25:38
Speaker
super aggrieved about not getting a point from that game and also feel like they probably should have had that penalty and got a point from that game. And I think the Sounders actually did a very commendable job of walking that line of saying like, look, we don't think the calls were right, but we needed, like the game was there to be had and we didn't take it. And I think to go back to our earlier point, my frustration with the season isn't that the Sounders haven't been good,
00:26:07
Speaker
In fact, I think the centers have been really good in spurts. I think as recently as the Minnesota game, they were really good in a bunch of Champions League games. They were really good in the first Minnesota game too. I thought they were reasonably good at Austin. They were pretty good against LA at home. They have some good wins this year. That's all
00:26:28
Speaker
Those are all positive. I think we've seen how good this team can be, but the problem is that they haven't been able to put multiple games together where they have looked good consistently. And I think that's what's frustrating is that we know how good they can be. This is not like 2018 Toronto FC where it was like they played well on Champions League, but really they never put together a good run during the league play.
00:26:50
Speaker
They never really look good during league play. And the Sounders have looked really good at various times. And I honestly, I'm not even concerned about them making the playoffs at this point. I would be shocked if they don't make the playoffs, but I think what we want to see is them finish high on the table. And I think that's what really the thing is, is that I think the Sounders are capable of still easily, like there's no reason they can't finish top four.
00:27:16
Speaker
Uh, which would get them a home game. Uh, there's no reason that, you know, especially if the, uh, supporters shield race continues to be looking trending in the way that it's trending, which is that it's going to not be as big point total. Like it's going to be somewhere in the sixties. It's not out of the question that the sounders could actually get back into that race. I mean, they're not into it now. There's no reason to really thinking about it, but.
00:27:38
Speaker
My point is that's where we should be aspiring to get to. And I think there's every reason to think that the sounders can play at that level if they can feel the consistent lineup, which they haven't put out the same lineup twice in any game.
00:27:53
Speaker
Uh, you know, they've used something like 26 different starters. Uh, they've, you know, they've had some, some troubles getting everyone on the field together. If they can do that, I think they'll be very good. We'll see you get Charlotte. They should have effectively their first choice, you know, group outside of outside of Sao Paulo. Uh, but every reason I think they'll be good in this game.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think that it is like, it's less about existential concern about the season and more about like, we know that this team is good enough to be playing better than this. And I think the further away from Champions League that it gets, because I think that when it was still fresh, even if they had a chance to get their first team on the field together in the league play,
00:28:42
Speaker
There's the question of like how much rotation there's been and the emotional hangover and like the fact that a lot of the guys haven't necessarily gotten that much of a chance to play together in the league.
00:28:54
Speaker
all that stuff. But that was getting close to a month ago now. And so I think that it's reasonable to say, all right, you're leaving points on the table. And you're going to be making the playoffs harder on yourselves than you need to. And also, it seems good watching them as entertainment. And when they're not putting together good performances, that's frustrating.
00:29:17
Speaker
Not worried, but definitely frustrated. I think it's a pretty good way to sum up how I feel about the Colorado game. And even the results have been okay, but like, I want to see this team beat up on mediocre teams. And they're good enough to do that. And so hopefully they'll do that again, Charlotte, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's probably a good way of putting it. I think that there's, you know, they've got a five game home stand.
00:29:45
Speaker
every reason to think that they can go on a good run during that period. And if they can get, you know, they probably need to get somewhere between 10 and 12 points at least, but, and it's not the easy, it's not like it's a, it's not like a gimme, a bunch of gimme games, but I mean, they'll be favored in every game, I think, probably, like that's the way it usually is at Lumen. And I mean, if they can get, if they can go 4011, something like that,
00:30:16
Speaker
Gotta feel like that would be, that would put them in great position. And there's no reason to think that they shouldn't aspire to do something like that. Agreed. This would be a very opportune time for them to remember that they're supposed to be really hard to beat at home because that hasn't necessarily been the case for the last year or so. So, yeah. Yeah. This would be a good time to reestablish that.
00:30:36
Speaker
Yeah, and some reason they were able to kind of firmly establish that in Champions League this year. They went 4-0 at home in Champions League, and I think they only gave up one goal during that whole run. So, plus 12, if I remember correctly. It's been a good... They've been actually pretty good at home this year. I guess they're 6-2 at home. If they can just sort of continue that form, should be great. Should be great.
00:31:03
Speaker
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00:31:32
Speaker
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00:31:52
Speaker
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00:32:14
Speaker
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00:32:38
Speaker
May as well just jump right in here. I will go ahead and ask you, Aaron. This is from a good friend of the show, Bill Jones, Trumpet. Christian Roldon is looking at a huge year this year, winning CCL, evolving as a better attacker, and likely heading to Qatar. What's a good way to look at his growth from 2021 to December 2022? Stats don't always tell the whole story.
00:33:01
Speaker
I think that the degree to which she is pretty clearly like a talismanic type player for the Sounders has become a lot more apparent.
00:33:11
Speaker
He's, he's always been like a pretty emotional guy who is pretty clearly an on-field leader for the team. But I think like that's just so much more apparent this year. Um, I think that he's just always involved. He's, he's always like, he's kind of taken over the Nico Ledero role of just getting the absolute shit kicked out of him for 90 minutes every game of like taking all those hard tackles, um, putting his body on the line. Uh, and, and.
00:33:41
Speaker
You know, I just think that it's he's clearly evolved as a player. He's becoming I think a much more cerebral player.
00:33:51
Speaker
He's the degree to which he'll just kind of do whatever needs to be done at any given time, at any given game state. The degree to which he has sort of improved the shithousery aspect of his game. You know, I think that like that was a huge part of why the Sounders were able to win the CCL is that he knows how to play that game extremely well.
00:34:13
Speaker
He knows how to work the referees, which is like, that's a skill, man. Like, and you've got to know how to do it, especially in international play and continental play. So I just think he's, he's always been like a pretty mature player for his years. But like now that he's sort of in this peak career years, like he's just a mature player, like in general, like he's just like a very smart professional.
00:34:39
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, I think that like, he's a guy that's, I think pretty obviously going to be the captain when Nico moves on. Uh, he's still here. Um, I think if you, if you listen to what his national team teammates and coaches say about him, yeah, they do. They love them. And, uh, the only people that don't love them are the biggest losers in American soccer. And.
00:35:03
Speaker
that makes me love him even more you know that he drives just the worst comebacks alive that crazy i'll tell you i i retweeted a quote that scuff podcast resurfaced with weston mckinney basically saying like what a great teammate christian raldon was and how everyone loves him and
00:35:24
Speaker
I had to like I don't I don't use the mute function that often, but I had to liberally use it today. Just a lot of like seemingly like the thing that's weird is like how many people get really worked up over like the 23rd roster spot. It's it's unhinged, dude. It is completely unhinged. Like if you look back at so these same guys will tell you that this current
00:35:54
Speaker
US men's national team squad is significantly worse than like the 2010 team or the 2016. And you look at like the back end guys on those rosters. I'm sorry, man. Like Christian Roldan is a better player than Robbie Finley. Like it's not even close. And if you- I mean, Ricardo Clark was playing meaningful minutes in 2010. Yeah. Yeah. Benny Philhaber.
00:36:22
Speaker
Like it's these, these aren't good players. I mean, they're like, I'm not trying to, you know, no disrespect. I just said, you're good. No disrespect. I mean, I know Ricardo Clark is an avid listener. He's the, he's the only person on our Patreon that we haven't made public yet.
00:36:39
Speaker
So I'm sorry, big guy. But no, I mean, like, it's, it's just crazy. And he's not going to get a lot of playing time, but you got to have a guy that can play like eight different positions on your team. Yeah. And he, I just think his floor, like, you know, you're going to get out of him. He's not going to be out there falling apart. And he's, by the way, he is capable of doing some pretty impressive stuff. He hasn't necessarily done it
00:37:02
Speaker
for the national team. And like, I don't know, there's a variety of reasons that he hasn't really shown out great for the national team, but people also act like he's never had a good national team game. I thought he was great in the gold cup, like off the bench. Every time you played, he was, he was a value add, I thought. So I don't know. I just get the discourse out. It's just very surreal to see the discourse around Christian inside the Sounders fan base and then outside of it. But
00:37:31
Speaker
We don't need to focus on that. Yeah, it's, uh, it's, you know, it's pretty funny. Uh, next one is from Micah EBFG has Morris expressed any interest in playing in Europe again? Now that he's healthy, how realistic is it that we lose him again? And I will also add to this because I was thinking about it with the last question. Do you think Christian still has a chance to play in there? I think Christian might have a better chance at this point of playing in Europe just because he's.
00:38:02
Speaker
Like, I don't know I think it for Christian it's it's really about like, what does playing in Europe mean, like, do you want to go to play in the Premier League or do you like, do you just want to go to.
00:38:16
Speaker
Austria. I don't think it would make sense for him to go to Austria. So I hope, I don't know. I don't think, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I think Christian is open to the idea. I think Jordan is definitely open to the idea. I think Jordan right now is a little farther away because he's just not like the way he's playing is not going to attract interest. Whereas I think Christian could attract interest right now, but I don't think either one of them are going to fetch a big transfer fee.
00:38:44
Speaker
And so they might be willing to like, I think they both of their contracts run out in at the end of next year. So I don't know, it'll be it'll be interesting to see what they do. I kind of think both of them are probably I mean, Jordan had his big chance. He got hurt.
00:39:07
Speaker
It door may have closed. I don't know. Maybe I forced the guests. I think both of them are going to end up staying in MLS, but I they both could be successful in Europe. Yeah, I think that what it comes down to for for both is likely. I think Jordan's chance to play in a top league in Europe is probably done. And I think I think Christian is
00:39:35
Speaker
probably just not quite at that. Like I think Christian could play in the premier league. Like if Christian were English, he would be playing in the premier league, but he also doesn't have the sharpest technical abilities. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's totally fair. I think that it is like a question of like, Hey, do you want to go play? And like you said, like Austria or Belgium or something Portugal.
00:39:56
Speaker
And that's a totally reasonable thing to want, to like, want that experience. And so who, like, if that's something he wants to do, he's absolutely earned the right to do it. But if it's not something that's important to him or it's not more important to him than, than playing here for his whole career or what have you, then that's completely understandable too. Um, and you know, if Jordan catches on fire and he goes to the world cup and tears it up, that totally changes the equation, you know, the fortunes can change pretty quickly, but.
00:40:27
Speaker
I do think ultimately it's going to kind of come down to, do you want to keep playing here and, you know, be be lifers or do you want to take this opportunity to go have a different experience rather than, I got to do this for my career, you know, right. Yeah, I, I, I think that's a good way of putting it like Jordan.
00:40:48
Speaker
The potential for Jordan to still go is there because he's got a World Cup. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he finishes the season strong, makes the World Cup, gets enough playing time where he gets a goal or two.
00:41:06
Speaker
people get excited about them and they bring them on for another loan and the sounders would absolutely be willing to let them go on loan again. Like there's no doubt in my mind that that could happen. And, and, and who knows, right? Whereas with Christian, I don't know that he's going to have as many opportunities to do that kind of impressive stuff, but I could see him also, like if he had an opportunity to go play, like you said, at a mid tier European team, it could, it could happen. But, um,
00:41:36
Speaker
I don't think either one of them are necessarily putting, they feel like they have to go to Europe in order to satisfy their urges. This is from Chamber Seattle. Transfer window opens in early July. Is there any glaring position where the centers need a backup or put another way? If you were the GM, would you target any position or none at all for the window?
00:41:59
Speaker
I think a lot of it depends on how the kids do rotationally playing defensive midfield in JP's absence.
Defensive Midfield Challenges
00:42:07
Speaker
I mean, I think that
00:42:08
Speaker
I feel very good about Vargas' ability to kind of make that position his own, but there's gonna be opportunities for other guys to get minutes here and there. And if they do well and you feel comfortable with it, I think that you say, hey, if we can add a good player somewhere, if we can make a good move for the future, if we can future-proof the team, whatever, blah, blah, blah, you do the best player available, right? Is what they call it when you're talking about the draft. And if you've got room to do that and there's something that makes sense,
00:42:38
Speaker
For sure, go for it. If you are in a situation where the kids are just not living up to what you need, like they're not giving you what you need from those positions, then I think that defensive midfield is a position you got to look at. But you're in a weird spot where, you know, you've got to assume Shaul Paolo is coming back next season. So you can't spend too much money. You can't like,
00:43:01
Speaker
sign a DP or a TAM level player at that position, most likely, unless you've got ideas for the future that, you know, we're not seeing yet. So it's a tricky one. I think you mentioned Emmanuel Sashini as like a, or who was it? The defensive midfielder guy that played like two games. Yeah, Emmanuel Sashini. Yeah. Like maybe that's the caliber of guy they could bring in.
00:43:28
Speaker
to fill that, you know, to fill that hole. I would prefer that the kids do a good job and you don't have to feel like you need to sign a player anywhere and you can just sign a good player if one comes available or hang on to the money if they don't.
00:43:44
Speaker
Um, but I don't see like a glaring need anywhere else really. Obviously that all changes with injuries, what have you, but I feel pretty good about striker. I feel pretty good about, you know, the, the midfield in general outside of DM center backed up seems really good.
00:44:02
Speaker
Uh, Kellen Rose been pretty good wherever he's been asked to play. So you've got like the utility. I just, I don't see any obvious places you can upgrade without spending more money than I think the sounders are going to feel comfortable spending in this window.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's sort of the problem is that you don't want to paint yourself into a corner. Like it's, it's possible the sounders come across some sort of situation where there's a short-term loan available or there's a intra league MLS move that the guy's contract is just about to run out and they just need, you know, it's a veteran looking to get on to an MLS cup run. I kind of looked through the MLS.
00:44:43
Speaker
roster of players that might be available. And honestly, the closest thing I found that someone might work is like an Eric Rometty type. He's a defensive midfielder in San Jose right now. I started off in Atlanta. He's a kind of expensive player, but I suppose there's a scenario where he is, you know, like the Sounders are willing to trade something to get them. They don't have to take on his whole contract.
00:45:10
Speaker
And they feel like they just need another veteran defensive midfielder. Like someone like that, maybe not him specifically, but that's really like the top end of what I think you're looking at as potential solutions. And otherwise you're looking at like, who knows? Maybe there is some.
00:45:28
Speaker
loan out there that you can work like that's sort of how the Saunders ended with Brad Smith the first time is they didn't necessarily need a left back but this situation came available and so they said why not let's give it a shot and
00:45:43
Speaker
I'm not saying they can't find situations like that, but I don't think they have a big glaring need and they certainly aren't going to go out and commit a bunch of money just for the sake of doing it. They don't have any U22 spots. They don't have any DP spots. Garth has said that the money they have in reserve essentially is sort of earmarked for balancing next year's budget.
00:46:09
Speaker
They're probably not inclined to blow up next. They probably feel very good about the roster for next year. And so they're not inclined to blow that up. So I wouldn't be totally shocked if they didn't do anything. Uh, and I, and I really couldn't blame them, uh, assuming the roster is how it looks today. You know, I think Leo Chu still has, you know, are you going to go out and find a, a winger with better upside than Leo Chu? I doubt it.
00:46:32
Speaker
Are you going to go out and find a defensive midfielder with better upside than, you know, Josh Atencio or. Obed Vargas seems doubtful. Obviously this changes if new who gets transferred in the summer, which is always possible. But yeah, I'm prepared to be for this to be a very quiet transfer window, which probably means they'll sign like six players, right? Exactly. Next one is from better than favorite defiance player of the season.
00:47:01
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I mean, I guess he said, so there's two categories he wanted us to look at. One was a sounder who's playing mostly for the defiance and then a pure defiance player. He's asking a lot, uh, from a team I haven't watched a ton of, but I mean, Alfonso Ocampo Chavez probably has to be the guy who's at the top of the list of a player who's playing down for the sounders. And he's got six goals, I think off to a good start. He's already equaled his career high. Uh,
00:47:30
Speaker
Uh, you know, it's a great start for Alfonso, a couple Chavez, if the centers had gone on a long open cup run or at least played another game, I think we would have seen him in the open cup. So it would be, it would be great if you could get back into the first team. I mean, there's another player who potentially is, uh, can help out. Uh, Sam and Denerin is another guy who could potentially help out. We haven't seen a lot of him with the first team, but as far as guys that are pure defiance players,
00:48:00
Speaker
Uh, let's see, I guess Marlon Vargas has actually been pretty interesting. I don't think he's necessarily someone we're going to see with the sounders, but he's had a good, he's had some good performances. Uh, and then the guy who just made his debut.
00:48:15
Speaker
who is coming out of the Academy, who might be signing a pro contract soon. Stuart Hawkins, he's 15 years old. He's a center back. And usually these young center backs, they excel at that level because they're sort of physical. They're like just bigger than their age group peers. But Hawkins has a big body, but he's really a little bit more of a technical player. So there's some,
00:48:40
Speaker
real potential there. He's only played one game. I honestly didn't see him play a whole lot in that game, but he's someone who I think I will be most keenly paying attention to.
00:48:54
Speaker
Everything you said, I also feel exactly the same way. Yeah, the plans haven't been as much fun to follow this year, although they've been very good. But trying to watch the MLS Next Pro has not been the easiest thing in the world. This is from M. Gamini. How much of Symmetra's success is from his deep roots and connections in Seattle? If he got hired away to some other team, how well do we think he might do?
00:49:21
Speaker
Um, I think he'd do very well. I mean, I think he's a, he's first and foremost, he's just an extremely good coach. I think he's really good at his job, but I do think that he, I think that he was uniquely set up for success in Seattle. And I, and I don't say that to try to take anything away from him because ultimately like he's still achieved more than.
00:49:47
Speaker
pretty much any coach in MLS outside of like a select few names. You know, that's just, but I think that being able to tap into the sort of the, the soul of the club and sell that I think is a huge part of it. Like I think a lot of players from outside the league come into the league and
00:50:12
Speaker
it's maybe to have perceptions of MLS that are not the most flattering perceptions. And I think that having a coach that can say,
00:50:24
Speaker
pretty convincingly, I think. I've been a part of this club for forever, for 40 years. And it means a lot to me, and it means a lot to the city, and it's a special place. And we're expected to win. We're expected to be entertaining. It's a big deal. He has this credibility about that to be able to say that more than, I don't know, somebody
00:50:51
Speaker
Chris Armist or something, you know, like it's just, and I think that that helps. And I think that having connections in the local soccer community probably helps to some degree. But ultimately, I think he is just a very good coach, and he's succeeded because he's a very good coach and
00:51:09
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, if he had taken a job in Dallas or whatever in 2000, and whatever it was, 2014, I think he probably would have done pretty well. But I don't know that he would have done as well as he did in Seattle, because I think that the organization just sets people up for success. And he, I think, probably had a little bit more input than he would have other places, et cetera. I don't know. But I think he would have had success, but maybe not as much, I guess, is the short answer there. Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Just to build on what you said, not to like, I agree with what you're saying, but to add to that, I think where the real differentiator is like the, where he's sort of like a force amplifier to take a term from Garth Lagerwey, is that he's created a cult. He's really helped foster the culture around the club. And I think if you go from the pre, you know, the Shiggy, the Siggy Schmidt era,
00:52:10
Speaker
He built a lot of the foundation here, but the club today is what it is.
00:52:17
Speaker
in large part because of Brian Schmetzer's cultural kind of vision of what, and sort of like, there was so much, it became so much more of an organic club that could reach back into its past. And really, I think it's really strengthened the idea that this is a club that has been around since 1974 that can really own some of its heritage. And it has created a whole atmosphere around the team
00:52:45
Speaker
And I think he deserves a lot of credit for sort of creating that environment. And so I don't think that's always about the on-field success, but it does sort of speak to the overall success of the organization. And that's the part where I think it really differentiates him for the Sounders. I think he would have been a successful on-field coach, but like how many coaches would have been as successful as the Sounders were during this last year with another team.
00:53:14
Speaker
I don't know that anyone would have. I think there was a confluence of things that have allowed him to be so successful here, and one of those things is having an ownership that backs the team the way that they do, having a front office that is as sharp as it is.
00:53:31
Speaker
And it's like all one big cohesive package. And so I don't necessarily think if he had gone to Dallas or Montreal, that he would have two MLS cups and a Champions League and three other finals appearances. But I think he would be successful.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that Ziggy Schmidt is one of the best to ever do it in this country, and I don't think Brian Schmetzer has had significantly more resources or support relative to the rest of the league, and he's achieved stuff so he never did. And I think that that says a lot. Yep, the next one is from drone 637.
Future of VAR in Soccer
00:54:09
Speaker
Now that there is a centralized bar location, how long until bars taken out of the hands of the on field referees or is that a union issue?
00:54:18
Speaker
I don't know that it's a union issue. It might be. I mean, it's possible that it's a union issue. Let's assume it's not for this conversation. I don't think MLS is dying to take the game out of the center referee's hands. I think that we're probably...
00:54:42
Speaker
Germany, as far as I know, is the only league or the only prominent league that ever had VAR be the final say on certain decisions where they basically said, nope, you got to change your call. And the call got changed. And they stopped doing it. And so that's to me, they didn't like the way it was working for one reason or another.
00:55:08
Speaker
I don't think they really liked the outcomes all the time. They didn't feel like it was leading to better outcomes. And so I think that's probably the biggest reason that we're not going to see it is that I don't know that there's any reason to think that 100% of the time VAR is better than, you know, like you want the VAR official to automatically overrule the on-field official.
00:55:34
Speaker
I would say that based on the soccer that I've watched, uh, MLS does more better than everywhere else. And, and I, I actually trust them. I think MLS refereeing in general, and I know this is funny to say, considering we just bashed a referee for like 20 minutes earlier, but MLS refereeing in general, I think it's better than the standard play in the league. Like I think MLS refereeing is better than it is in the premier league. That has not always been the case for sure. But I think it's gotten a whole lot better over the last five or six years. I think they do a great job with VAR.
00:56:05
Speaker
And I think that all that stuff that you just spoke to, I think you're 100% right. I think that they are probably gonna tweak things around the margins.
00:56:15
Speaker
but I don't think there's any interest in taking things away from the center referee because it just makes a worse product. Like it's just, it's too much, I think at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I think what we were also saying about Ford, it's not that the officials here are beyond reproach, like they make more shapes. It's more that I don't think either one of us think that it's systemic where like you routinely have referees ignoring perfectly good recommendations. Uh,
00:56:45
Speaker
And again, I don't even think that they need to, just because they ignore a recommendation doesn't make it the wrong recommendation. I just specifically want boundary calls to be not up for debate. There needs to be a final decision on that.
00:57:05
Speaker
Alright, this one's from Brianman13. Seems like ownership size and money are growing in MLS. Do we see the sounders ever being sold to bigger pockets and will it ever be a concern that Adrian won't have sufficient bankroll to keep up?
00:57:19
Speaker
I mean, I don't think so, because I think that the odds of MLS getting to a point where a team successful as the Sounders can't be self-sustaining, I just that doesn't seem likely to me, at least in the near term. And I think the Sounders have definitely felt the need to increase the amount of
00:57:40
Speaker
investment they have on hand. And that's why they've done things like opening up the ownership group and things like that. I think that if Adrian ever feels like he can't compete, that whole problem, yeah, I think he would. But I don't, because I think he just loves the club that much. And I think that he's dead serious about seeing himself as a steward of the club. But I guarantee he's not looking to sell before they open lawmakers.
00:58:07
Speaker
No, I think that that's probably true. And I mean, like, ultimately, Adrian has probably made a lot of money off of the sounders. Like, I think it's fair to say that this is probably Adrian's biggest business investment. Like, I mean, he bought into the team. I want to say they, what was the expansion fee was like 20 million. Yeah.
00:58:24
Speaker
And he was in at 30% or something like that. So he was into this thing for call it $7 million. And the team is worth probably like $700 million right now. He owns supposedly like 50% of that. So you're talking about like $325 million of equity in this team.
00:58:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think that the odds of runaway spending like we've seen in a lot of top leagues in Europe, we're still pretty good ways off of that. The Sounders make a ton of money. I get the sense they invest a lot of it back into the team. Everyone involved with the club is always talking about running a sustainable business.
00:59:05
Speaker
uh and it's the right way to run a club like it's good to do that like even the mega teams that spend a lot outside of like you know teams like Manchester City and whatnot like they have definitely moved towards a like we're not going to just throw money at problems anymore like we're going to have like sustainable wages and um and we're going to generate revenue other ways like through our academy and stuff like that so
00:59:28
Speaker
I think that the days of just big free spending teams, unless they are backed up by literal nation states. Well, it's not healthy. I don't think it's healthy for the organizations. It's not healthy for the leagues. It's not like it's great for the players. And I don't want it. I don't want to begrudge players for getting paid. But like in terms of the ecosystem, you just can't rely on
00:59:53
Speaker
on on rich people to just flush money down the drain like you've got to at least strive to be sustainable and maybe that means you know sustainable losses is is fine and everyone every every team doesn't need to literally break even but um
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I will add that it looks like a pretty big portion of the sounders could be up for sale pretty soon. There's been a lot of reporting just recently about Jody Allen and the Paul Allen estate, I guess, in his will or I don't know exactly how they put it, but the way his
01:00:32
Speaker
They needed to liquidate his sports holdings from the Paul Allen Foundation. And I guess the clock is ticking on that. And so they think the Trailblazers are going to be sold. They think the Seahawks are going to be sold. And none of these reports have specifically mentioned the Sounders. But I have to assume that Paul Allen's, I think it's either 20% or 25% stake in the Sounders, is probably going to be going up for sale pretty soon.
01:00:58
Speaker
And who knows who buys that? But as far as we know, Adrian is going to remain the majority owner. Like I said, I don't think he's going anywhere until at least until the Longacre's facility is done. And he's been able to sort of like live in it a little. And like, I don't know. Yeah. And I guess you could argue that
01:01:22
Speaker
The Sounders are under-capitalized if they wanted to build their own stadium. I don't think they have anyone in the organization who's going to go out and spend a billion dollars to build a brand new stadium, but I don't think they need that. We'll see if they end up getting this World Cup.
01:01:42
Speaker
It will be interesting to see how that translates to permanent changes to to lumen field. And so, who knows maybe they won't ever have to leave. Yeah, but we'll see, which, frankly, is the best outcome possible, because a downtown stadium is nice and be it pisses off those same worst people in American soccer that we were talking about earlier.
01:02:04
Speaker
Increasingly, now that we've won the Champions League, that's the main thing I care about the centers doing is annoying. Just the most annoying people on the planet. It's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, that works. Well, that's probably a good place to call this. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to our sponsors, Vocal Wines and Watson's Counter.
01:02:28
Speaker
I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for An Campo and Lick It. This is No Sadietes. Remember, you'll never go out alone. Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and canyons you flew. Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue. It's roll on, Columbia roll on.
01:02:53
Speaker
Roll on, Columbia, roll on. Roll on, Columbia, roll on. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll on, Columbia, roll on. We love you. Let's win another one!