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00:00:01
Peter Greer: Rethinking Extreme Poverty
25 Plays20 days ago
In this episode, Eric talks with Peter Greer—President & CEO of HOPE International, longtime practitioner in global poverty alleviation, and author/co-author of eighteen books including Mission Drift, Rooting for Rivals, and How Leaders Lose Their Way. The conversation goes deep into what poverty really is, why traditional aid often fails to produce lasting change, and how dignity-centered development can transform individuals and communities.
Peter shares how HOPE International focuses on long-term job creation, savings groups, and microenterprise rather than handouts, and why understanding the full “four domains of poverty”—material, social, spiritual, and internal—shapes more effective solutions. He and Eric also talk about how people change, what most donors misunderstand about impact, and why genuine transformation has to be built with communities rather than for them.
They cover:
- The pitfalls of short-term aid and why jobs are essential to lasting change
- Why poverty is about far more than lack of money
- How dignity, agency, and community alter long-term outcomes
- The tension between simple fundraising messages and complex development models
- Why “external engineering” fails without local ownership
- How to stay hopeful while working in places of deep need
- Practical ways individuals can engage without becoming overwhelmed
- What it means to match compassion with critical thinking
This is a grounded, clear-eyed discussion for anyone interested in meaningful impact—leaders, donors, nonprofit professionals, and anyone thinking about how change really happens.
Episode Links
- Peter Greer: https://www.peterkgreer.com
- HOPE International: https://www.hopeinternational.org
- Follow Peter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkgreer/
- The conversation with Coach Rory O’Neill: https://unfoldingthought.com/rory-oneill-inside-the-matrix-of-american-youth-soccer/
- The White Man’s Burden (William Easterly): https://amzn.to/4nlBmr9
- Jeffrey Sachs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Sachs
- The conversation with fundraising copywriter Jeff Meredith: https://unfoldingthought.com/jeff-meredith-the-stories-behind-homelessness/
- The conversation with nonprofit executive director Andy Bales: https://unfoldingthought.com/20-andy-bales-from-poverty-to-purpose/
- Timothy P. Carney’s Alienated America: https://amzn.to/4rqSfnA
For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com
Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction: Peter's Life and Work
00:00:02
Speaker
Peter, thank you for joining me. Where does today's recording find you? I am at home in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Well, again, thank you for joining me. It's been a few years since I think we last talked or otherwise interacted. We met at a conference, so I'm going to cheat a little bit here for the purposes of the podcast and ask you When somebody asks you to to to tell you to tell them about yourself or what you do or something of that nature, what do you say?
00:00:35
Speaker
Well, hope I start by saying i am ah married to a Laurel and dad to four kids. And that is a great gift. um So I am married. And then my professional work, I work with Hope International, so we're a global organization that is trying to end extreme poverty around the world by investing in entrepreneurs, helping them start or expand small businesses through the tools of savings groups and microfinance institutions, and doing it all in a gospel-centered way and approach in collaboration and partnership with the global church. So that's what I do. And then i also have this
00:01:11
Speaker
side of me that I love writing. I love learning. I love being curious. And so also love the journey of writing books and and learning about topics and then trying to figure out how to apply some of these practices and principles in the organization um and in my life. So those are the parts of me. So I'm a husband and dad, um involved in global missions of poverty alleviation, and then also love learning and writing as well. So that's the three different parts of of who I am as part of that answer to that question.
00:01:38
Speaker
Thank you, Peter. I appreciate that. I really want to ask you about your work with poverty and related issues. But before I go there, having mentioned the books, I'm sure you will know the answer to this, but you've written
Writing Process and Collaboration
00:01:55
Speaker
quite a few books. I think it's, is it eight or 10?
00:01:57
Speaker
that right? It's 18 at this point. So I've kind of just gotten into the habit of doing one a year and started a long time ago. uh, but yeah, I, you know, some self-published, some larger, so different different lengths, different different topics. We have done about one a year for the last almost 18 years.
00:02:15
Speaker
I think that there are so many benefits to taking the time to think really deeply about something and even more deeply than, you know, i read one of your books and then i think about the questions that I want to ask or the topics that I want to bring up. But the kind of deep thinking that it takes to put together and argument or examine a topic, whether it's in, you know, 30 pages or it's in 300 pages.
00:02:45
Speaker
And you have done that on several different topics. I forget all of the titles, but you have a book where you talk about Sort of supporting your quote unquote rivals. I think it's rooting for rivals. if That's exactly right. Yeah. Rooting for rivals.
00:03:04
Speaker
And you have another one. I forget the exact title, but it's something like Mission Drift. ah You are two for two. and That's exactly what it's called. Yeah. Mission Drift. And you have other topics that you've explored, but I suppose my point being that it sure looks to me like, while I imagine we could trace a line in your development as a thinker or a leader or whatever else, that you have taken the time to think really deeply about several different topics throughout your career as a writer.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, maybe just a quick word is I think there are some people that write books out of their expertise. And I hope would have been out of topics a long time ago if that was. But we start with a question and it's something that we're trying to think through. And I also need to have a huge disclaimer is I am i am not an author.
00:03:59
Speaker
I am a co-author. I love going on the journey with others. And every single project has been with friends, with colleagues, with learning together. And it has been exactly as you said, it's been professional development. It's been an opportunity to start with a question, not to start with a conclusion. And that question then leads us to have conversations with people that are further and farther along. And so everything that we write is really a compilation of going on the journey, hopefully thinking deeply, but then also having a number of conversations with amazing people. And then that opportunity to learn from and with them And then to hopefully then synthesize and summarize and apply some of what it is that we're learning.
00:04:40
Speaker
So yeah, it it starts with a question. um It starts with curiosity. It does not start because we would have claimed to have figured this out. And exactly what you said, rooting for rivals. That's not because we figured out how to have these great collaborative relationships with other organizations. It's because we knew how important it was and we knew how difficult it can be. And so let's learn from others who have done it. And mission drift. We see organizations drifting from their founding purpose and identity. um and And it's not like we are not also immune. It's not that we are not also prone to that same tendency. So the question is, who can we find who have really done it at a different scale, a different level of longevity? And what can we learn from them and then put it into practice in our own organization and in our own lives. So starts with a question. um And it really has been an amazing, so life-giving to go on this journey with friends.
00:05:36
Speaker
So you said that you work in poverty and I don't recall that you stated it this way, but just to be broad, I'm going to say in related issues, you talked about, again, I i i don't recall that you've said this exactly, but Things like microfinance or you use some terminology that leads me to believe that you are doing less.
00:06:01
Speaker
I don't mean to use too much loaded terminology here, but you're doing less handouts and you're doing more facilitating people. lifting themselves up or building businesses or other things
Hope International's Approach to Poverty
00:06:14
Speaker
of that nature. So maybe before ask too many questions, can you clarify for me what your work looks like or the work of your organization?
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, you're exactly right, Eric. And that goes back to the founding story of Hope International, that it was in, initially, it was a church in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, that was giving away food and supplies after the fall of the Soviet Union, to a sister church in in ukraine and that is so helpful that is so necessary in the short term but eventually the pastor who is receiving all of this good shipments started to recognize not all of the impact was good And came to the founder of Hope and said, your help, it's just not helping us anymore.
00:07:00
Speaker
And that's what we all know is aid is always best when it is short term, when the ultimate goal is when individuals can stand on their own two feet, right? it's It's not to create cycles of dependency. It's always best as a short term intervention. And sometimes it's easy to pay too much attention to the immediate crisis and not to the underlying context or situation.
00:07:26
Speaker
And so with Hope International, we're trying to pay attention to that broader context. And the way that we do it is by helping individuals create jobs. The pathway out of poverty always includes jobs. It has to, by very nature. It has to create the ability to work. It has to involve agriculture and the ability to grow your own food, not wait for someone to show up and provide food from another place or context.
00:07:53
Speaker
And so really that's what we do is we invest in what we would say is the God-given capacity of every single person, helping them, again, using the agricultural analogy, help them to plant some seeds and to watch things grow. And whether that is truly in agriculture or whether that is in the market or whether it's light manufacturing or whether it's a restaurant or some other service provider, we provide opportunities for individuals to get access to capital, training, community,
00:08:23
Speaker
all within this context of loving God and loving our neighbor um as we go on this journey of trying to, again, make the transition from short-term aid to longer-term development and job creation. And that's what we do in 29 countries around the world.
00:08:41
Speaker
Are there things that you feel many people misunderstand about poverty, whether it's, I suppose, living in poverty, so to speak, or lifting oneself up out of poverty, creating jobs, or otherwise ah alleviating those conditions, I suppose?
Understanding Poverty: Beyond Material Needs
00:09:00
Speaker
I think one of the first ones is, unfortunately, sometimes the assumption is if someone is living in poverty, If they just worked a little harder, they wouldn't be in poverty, right? If they if they just had what we have. um and And I just would encourage anyone who might recognize that in themselves, please spend a week.
00:09:23
Speaker
living in a rural community around the world and ah you have a greater appreciation. It's not a work ethic challenge. It's a context issue. And I just so firmly believe this. If I were born in one of the places that we serve and those individuals were born where I was born, our lives would be dramatically different. And and so I think it's a context more than a capacity issue.
00:09:50
Speaker
and And I think that's part of the reason why what we do really works is because we're having the opportunity to invest, to give the gifts and ah and and and to unlock their capacity um in a way that shows just what is possible. So that, I think, is ah is ah is a misconception that a lot of individuals have. And then I think another misconception is, and, the assumption that poverty is just material.
00:10:19
Speaker
ah That is also a misconception. and And I think that's a really important thing that we learn from the families that we serve. um If you have a lot of stuff and have no relationships, you are still, what I would say, in a form of poverty. And so we've got to think beyond the economic. We've got to think beyond. um and And we talk about these four domains of poverty.
00:10:42
Speaker
um And yes, the material is real. If you don't have enough money to provide food, housing, shelter, education for your kids, that has real implications. That is a real aspect of poverty. But also, there's poverty within yourself. If you have no hope for the future,
00:10:59
Speaker
that also is a form of of poverty. If you have no relationships, the social aspect of poverty, if you're isolated and alone, it doesn't matter how much money you have, that is not flourishing in your life. And then also we talk about spiritual poverty. And so we look at these four domains of poverty that are really helpful in understanding. We've got to expand a little bit more when we talk about poverty. Yes, the material is real, but let's make sure we're addressing that in a way that validates poverty.
00:11:28
Speaker
the the dignity of all individuals. Let's make sure it does not further isolate, but it brings communities together. Let's make sure that it's done in such a way that people can hear, see, experience God's love as they are working their way out of poverty. So those four domains of poverty um is how we think about the problem, which affects how we think about the solution as well.
00:11:51
Speaker
When I receive a direct mail piece or something, you know usually a direct response message from many nonprofits, understandably, you know coming from a marketer's background myself, ah it seems...
00:12:10
Speaker
natural to me that the message would boil down to something that's easy to understand, you know, in a split second. And often the most effective messages in that sort of context, you know, I open up the mail or i get an email or whatever it happens to be.
00:12:31
Speaker
Often there's some confirmation bias as well. Like, oh, the, let's go back to, I bet you, you're going to know this and I am blanking on it. Was it world vision or something that, you know, used to have these commercials and they Of course, there'd be a whole village or something, but usually they'd show you one child and there's an emotional like tugging on the heartstrings, but also very often the most effective message, as I said, there's some sort of confirming.
00:13:04
Speaker
of my bias that they speak to, yeah, that's, this thing is wrong. And ergo, Eric, if you just take X step, problem is solved.
00:13:16
Speaker
And it sounds to me like, sorry, what I'm thinking as you're describing some of this is like, there is a recipe and maybe even recipe is ah a bad way to state this. It's like a chemistry experiment or something that it's really difficult to get all the levels or the, you know, turn this s knob or that knob of spiritual poverty or lack of community or money.
00:13:44
Speaker
It's very difficult to get it right because the context for each individual and each community is important. So that said, and please do correct me if you think differently about this, but that said, how do you all think about your work when you go into these 29 different
Complexity of Poverty Solutions
00:14:05
Speaker
countries? You know, feels to me like you must if at all possible, have a very direct sort of face-to-face connection or relationship with the people that you're having. Otherwise, isn't it quite difficult to get those levels or the the the mix of chemicals in this this recipe correct?
00:14:26
Speaker
Well, with your marketing experience, I would love your help in knowing how shape this message ah because it is a little bit different and that... ah Problem, solution is what you're saying. And and the the more that people can understand the problem, understand the solution and feel that they are making an impact, ah that is what oftentimes moves individuals to action.
00:14:52
Speaker
And the challenge in the HOPE model, the work that we do with HOPE International, is that it's a little bit more complicated when it gets to solution.
00:15:02
Speaker
um It's not the immediate. It's not addressing, you're homeless, let's build you a home. You don't have food, let's give you a food. It's a little bit bigger than that, and it's a little bit, it's it's longer term, and there's less guarantees. And and in some ways, it it it maybe is a little bit more complicated for us to really kind of understand. Wait, you're you're telling me you don't give anything away? Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:15:30
Speaker
you're You're telling me you help individuals save money? i don't get it. Aren't they in poverty? Why why do you help them save money? Well, let me tell you. and And it's just a little bit more disconnected and sometimes how it feels to make the argument of why jobs work.
00:15:48
Speaker
why capital, why a holistic understanding of poverty are necessary. And that doesn't quite boil down to the really clear, the really simple message um that sometimes is helpful in moving individuals from need to action. and um And it's something that we think about. But you know who gets our message?
00:16:11
Speaker
Entrepreneurs, you who gets our message? People that understand the value and dignity of work. People who have spent time in places of poverty and understand if there's no jobs, there's going to be no long-term impact um in these communities. And those are the types of people that tend to resonate with who we are and what we do.
00:16:31
Speaker
How has your experience shaped how you think about how people change their own experience? Because I imagine that earlier in your life, whether it was, you know, during college or so soon after college, you likely had a different outlook or a different mental model of people that are dealing with poverty than what you have now. Yeah.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, and growing up, I had a very, very small understanding of the interventions of how we address some of the needs. And it was meeting the immediate, immediate needs. So again, food is the most clear example.
00:17:11
Speaker
People are hungry. I look at how much food I have. This is crazy that in today's world, there are millions of people that don't have enough food for themselves and their family. That's not okay. Let's do something, right?
00:17:25
Speaker
And I think that is a great starting point to recognize something is wrong, like something needs to be done. and And this is where oftentimes those stories make a big impact and hopefully grow our heart. But then I think it's this migration of connecting our heart and our head.
00:17:43
Speaker
and And the heart says there's a problem. People are hungry. Our head says, wait a minute, if the solution is us just giving away food, for what does that do to them to become just the recipients?
00:17:57
Speaker
What does it do to the local people that are trying to start A business growing food, if they keep being inundated with free, that seems like a really hard way to have a long-term solution. And wait a minute, what is the economic component to this? What what is the human dignity component to this?
00:18:17
Speaker
And that's where I feel like... I still want to have that same heart that I remember. My daughter is a freshman in high school and she sees individuals. We're driving, you know, wherever we are. If she sees someone on the side of the road, she has to do something.
00:18:34
Speaker
And I love that. I love her heart. And so when we're in a store, she's always going to get extra things that we're going to keep in the car for her to, and, and, I also, over time, like what's the way to address that fundamental challenge? What are the other ways to come along with the short term to think about the long term? And that's really, I think, the journey for all of us is how do we not grow cold or cynical or jaded in our heart? How do we keep that that heart of compassion, but then also engage our mind in saying what will make the biggest impact on
00:19:10
Speaker
for individuals so that individuals that at one point might be the ones that needed to receive something, but now they're equipped to be the ones who are giving to others. How do we help on that journey? and and And just activating, fully activating, keeping that heart of compassion, but really engaging our minds and saying, what is going to make the biggest and most lasting impact for the individuals?
00:19:33
Speaker
The way that you've described Hope International's work, it sounds like you you're not saying that immediate need is always inappropriate. You know, so for example, there is a hurricane and Red Cross or whoever else goes in and they provide immediate support.
00:19:53
Speaker
But that it sounds like after some time, you would like to see some transition away from, you know, in Haiti, for example, gosh, what was that? 13 years ago or something, I think.
00:20:07
Speaker
And maybe more. The, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of people, you know, their homes were destroyed. It was just really a lot of devastation.
00:20:20
Speaker
And so there was more long-term support, I imagine, that was needed than in other instances where there, you know, there's some sort of natural disaster like that.
00:20:33
Speaker
But so in an instance like that, I'm imagining that you would like to see that for some amount of time, there's the support for food or whatever else, but that we are supporting people in building up, you know, helping them rebuild their own roads or houses or replant their fields rather than just giving them food for three, five, 10 years on end.
From Crisis Relief to Sustainable Development
00:21:05
Speaker
Eric, that's it. Yeah, totally. It's like you need the relief in a moment of acute crisis. And then you need to go to rehabilitation, helping individuals get back to the place that they were. And then you need to have the longer term development because guess what is guaranteed? There's going to be another crisis.
00:21:23
Speaker
It is guaranteed that in communities of poverty around the world, there's going to be something else that is going to come. And is the community going to be more well-resourced, more connected, so that they are better able to withstand and respond to the next crisis?
00:21:38
Speaker
And that's where we believe that sometimes we are inundated with images of the acute crisis, but then we all have really short attention spans that when the rebuilding happens, when the community strengthening happens, that oftentimes there's very little focus or resources on the underlying issues that really exacerbated society. the crisis.
00:22:03
Speaker
um And so that's really what we would love to see is, yeah, let's still let's still respond with a force of compassion. And let's make sure we don't forget the underlying conditions when the cameras go away.
00:22:16
Speaker
And that's really where we kind of step in and and hopefully are involved in the longer term, helping in the development process, not just that immediate aftermath of a crisis. I probably shouldn't be surprised, I guess, by this still, but I always really do find it so fascinating to get into conversations in what seem like very different parts of life or very different specialties and then see what to me seem like quite obvious similarities. So
00:22:48
Speaker
Soon, i think it'll be in another week or so from when we're recording this, I'll be releasing an episode with a gentleman named Rory O'Neill, also in Pennsylvania.
00:23:02
Speaker
He has a rather large YouTube channel focused on coaching soccer. And one of the things that he says in some of his videos, but he also says it near the end of the conversation with me, is that One of the big things that he would like people to remember is that when you're on the sidelines of a soccer game, or this could apply to basketball, it could apply to any number of other things,
00:23:29
Speaker
If, you know, Peter, when you're sitting on the sidelines, I'm guessing that one or more of your children might have played sports at some point, if not right now. It's so easy to go from supporting them to, yeah, you know, congratulations or get back on it or whatever, you know, you're saying they lose the ball or who knows what.
00:23:47
Speaker
It's so easy to go from that to saying, do this exact thing, you know, and in sports, they call that joy sticking. I bet you there's, we probably use that in management. as well would be my guess, but that's where I first encountered it was in coaching.
00:24:01
Speaker
And he basically, he says that when you tell the player pass to Bob or whatever it is, you rob them of the opportunity to learn from their experience because they might not pass it the first or the second or the third time. But if you give them enough reps they have the chance to learn from that. Now, I think that gets a little bit back to actually one of the things you said earlier, which was context and capacity.
00:24:32
Speaker
So if I set up a context, I'm kind of stretching that word here, but if I set up the context where a player has the opportunity to make a decision. Well, now do they have the capacity? you know Are they mentally capable of it? Are they just built in such a way where they can or cannot do it?
00:24:51
Speaker
But coming back to the similarities, I always find it fascinating how you know yeah i need to i need to try really hard in my coaching or my parenting or my managing to not just tell people what to do or what the solution is.
00:25:11
Speaker
and try and give them as many opportunities as possible to come up with an idea and try the idea. And then if I can put it this way, sort of lovingly come alongside them and provide the support that they ask for and or that they're just not capable of providing to themselves at that time. And it kind of I feel like I hear that throughout a number of the things you've said.
00:25:37
Speaker
It's a great analogy, and I look forward to listening to that episode. But you're exactly right. And I think in relating that same kind attitude and approach to the work that we do, it's that oftentimes good-hearted, well-meaning people are going to go and try and solve the world's problems.
00:25:56
Speaker
and actually was living in Rwanda when there was a ah community that was set up, and it was set up by some brilliant PhDs. And they said, this is what it's going to take. And so they had the right different mix, and they had the the right layout, and after the ribbon cutting, went back there a while later and it didn't work.
00:26:17
Speaker
It just didn't work. You can't externally engineer a community without the internal agency and and and buy-in. And I think to me, that was just like Literally a powerful example that anything that is ideas developed from the outside that are then going to be implied to solve your problems.
00:26:39
Speaker
We're smart enough that we're going to solve your problems. It just doesn't work as much as equipping, as supporting, as as no longer thinking about for but with.
00:26:50
Speaker
no longer thinking about we're going to do something for you, but no, what, what is it that, that God has put in your hands and how can you use that to make an impact? And in the development language, there's been an ongoing conversation between what Bill Easterly writes about in his book, White Man's Burden versus what Jeffrey Sachs writes about.
00:27:12
Speaker
And, um, uh, One is external solutions and other is find the local champions and equip them. And I know which model, which side of that model or debate I fall on. Let's find the people in those communities.
00:27:26
Speaker
Let's equip, let's partner with them as they become the long-term solution to the challenges that they face. And I think of one woman that we were able to work with. And again, she started a business, but it just was beautiful. She saw that there were kids that didn't have a home.
00:27:42
Speaker
So she opened up her home and started bringing kids in, in a beautiful way. She saw that her community didn't have water. And so she, because she had the resources now, she built ah a well for her community and she started solving problem after problem after problem um in her local community in a wonderful way. because she was then equipped and resourced and and had this economic engine ah that was able to fund all of this other good in her community. So that's really what we're trying to do. Find people like that, partner with individuals, um and then watch the impact that they have on their communities. Tell me your story of getting a compassionate heart and then how you think about making an impact in the world.
00:28:24
Speaker
I don't know that I could at the moment, you know, on the fly, bring it down to a simple story, but I suppose that some of it is that early in my life, I had a probably relatively juvenile or sort of stereotypical young person, like, you know, well, we can just take care of everyone sort of idea. And I i don't know that it was exactly this, but there was probably some of
00:28:58
Speaker
you know, the like, well, if we just distribute all the money or we have more than enough food, let's just ship some food over there. I, again, I don't know that it was exactly that, but that probably came up at some points because i whether I was 10 or I 25,
00:29:15
Speaker
earlier in my life, it just seemed so simple. Like, you know, well, if you just cared, if we just cared enough, then we could do this. And I worked in nonprofit fundraising for about 10 years with two organizations. And So one was a large publicly owned company. And so we did a ton with Salvation Army for a time, Red Cross, before they took it all in-house. But three and a half years, I think, of that time was spent working exclusively with rescue missions and with
00:29:54
Speaker
food banks. And so there was other work that I have done, but then I went on from there and I worked with an agency that only worked with ministries, a lot of international work.
00:30:04
Speaker
So then you and I, I think crossed paths at, like yeah, now the new name is CityGate before it was exactly right. yeah And so I had just come out of an exclusive focus on fundraising and that was That was six and a half years ago, i think.
00:30:27
Speaker
But i retain a lot of the interest in both you know, helping people who could use some support, but also thinking more and more as you mature.
00:30:40
Speaker
about, you know, what it's the hindsight is 2020 sort of thing. Like, what did I not understand back then? And so I'm really curious when I hear, you know, you share something and then i don't know if you've ever encountered him, but there's a gentleman, Andy Bales, who ran Union Rescue Mission on Skid Row in Los Angeles for 25 years, who I had on. He was a client for a long time.
00:31:07
Speaker
And even just this week, my friend, Jeff Meredith, who has been a longtime fundraising copywriter, I released his episode and he said something similar to what you said. I forget how you phrased it, but he said a lot of people think, because he was talking about addiction and working with rescue missions, said a lot of people think, oh, this guy just needs to get himself cleaned up.
00:31:28
Speaker
And basically there's so much more to it than that. So maybe to come back around your question, I have a lot of interest, certainly, and I've been involved in different at different times plugging into some of the things that you know you do but from a distance, I suppose, you know to what you do.
Evaluating Charitable Actions for Impact
00:31:48
Speaker
But now more and more I'm really curious about Somebody cares to do something. And, you know, what is it that they might overlook? Or somebody who writes off, whether it's your work or somebody else's work, like, oh, that's not helping.
00:32:06
Speaker
um Or we have bigger issues here in the United States, perhaps. I'm really curious about You know, what are all of the questions that that person is not asking or what are they valuing that drives those decisions?
00:32:22
Speaker
I'd be so interested in your experience, especially with the rescue missions, because my experience is that almost all of them are doing something with job creation and skills training and job preparedness. And and yet what is the dominant message that is used in the fundraising process?
00:32:42
Speaker
It's oftentimes the immediate need and this will provide immediate. And I find that so interesting that even within the space itself, there's a disconnect between my experience of what most people would say this is necessary for the long term and this.
00:32:58
Speaker
This is the message that resonates. How do we shift that conversation? How do we how do we shift and and maybe a little bit more of yes, short-term and long-term? Yes, aid and helping to create jobs. Yes, the the the the immediacy the the deeper issues. um and And I do wonder how we can continue to change the message. And and is there a way to frame that it's both? It's it's it's the meal and it's the work. um
00:33:32
Speaker
So anyway, that's that's separate. So yeah, what are the questions that I hope people are asking? I hope people are thinking about ah some significant questions of Like, how do I know that this is working?
00:33:46
Speaker
What problem are we really trying to solve? And to not only engage your heart as you think about how we help, but to engage your heart and your mind. And again, this is what I love. We're we're we're invited. I believe with with my faith is i want to be someone who loves God with heart, mind, soul, and strength, like activating all of them or head, heart, and hands. I want to be someone who thinks critically about what it is that makes a difference um and then to get to work, to have the willingness to go and and and and do it. So that's what I would love people to maybe push a little harder. And I find some of the most brilliant,
00:34:32
Speaker
investors ah that sometimes almost don't use that same skill set when it comes to their philanthropy. And i think we need people to ask the tough questions. We need to understand more about impact. We need to understand what is the return on investment um in in in the impact that we're hoping to see in our world. So those are the types of questions that I would love to see more people invited. And I think from an organizational perspective and welcoming those types of questions, bring the tough questions. and Let's be on the journey together. Let's let's sharpen our model. let's Let's find areas for improvement. Let's have the courage to shift direction when something isn't working. um Yeah, those are the types of questions that I i ah i hope people feel equipped and supported in yeah in sharpening.
00:35:23
Speaker
There are so many topics that I would love to explore from talking about community. And, you know, i think one thing that I experienced with the rescue missions is no matter where you stand on any one particular faith, you know, i believe there's a very strong argument to be made for helping someone latch onto a some structure that a belief system can bring, the community that it often brings with it.
00:36:02
Speaker
There's a lot that can be said about, I think you talked about it a little bit, with the sort of alienation that people have when that when you get into poverty. you know Let's see, Timothy P. Carney, I think, wrote this book called Alienated America.
00:36:21
Speaker
And if I recall correctly in that book, he talks about the poverty that a lot of people experience in these rural towns in the United States is not nearly as much about money. I mean, when, you know, the Rust Belt type towns, when the manufacturing left, yeah, money was an issue, but also you find a poverty of connection.
00:36:44
Speaker
And there's a lot of other things that I would love to get into, but I know also that I have to get you off to other things today. So I'm going to ask three questions and in one, or three questions at once. One is, I'm really curious how you personally, Peter, stay hopeful or positive or feeling like the work is worthwhile when you do get exposed to, it doesn't always work with one individual or another or whatever.
00:37:17
Speaker
How do you stay hopeful Where is it that you would want me to go or things you would want me to check out, whether it's Hope International? And then this might relate to the first question, but if I should keep anything in mind, you know, after this conversation, you would ask me to think about one thing or another.
00:37:37
Speaker
What might that be?
Community Involvement and Actionable Steps
00:37:39
Speaker
there There are a lot of challenges in the world. No surprise to anyone. And i think we can get overwhelmed. i think we can get totally overwhelmed if we don't feel like there's something that we are able to do to make an impact. And so I think from the shift from being overwhelmed and feeling helpless to saying, what do I have and how can I make an impact on for one small person organization, like just something. And I think that um overwhelmed leads to inaction, which leads to no good actually happening. So that cycle we see again and again. And I think that's when we're at our worst, when we see problems and we feel like there's nothing that we can do about it. And so I would say the opposite is, yeah, let's look for the challenges and let's connect it to something that we can do.
00:38:29
Speaker
You see a challenge in your community of feeling of of disconnect? Well, start by loving your neighbors, like literally the ones right next door. ahhu Go start loving on them. You see a challenge of, you know, future generations, whatever,
00:38:45
Speaker
Go find your local mentoring organization and get involved. um You see a challenge around the world, find an organization that you believe in and start making an impact through your charitable giving. Like be radically generous. Let's do something. So problem has to be matched with with something that we feel like we are able to do. And then a similar journey is isolation to community.
00:39:12
Speaker
If you're doing that volunteering, as an example, don't do it alone. Find two of your friends and say, hey, let's do this together. And I think if we make that shift from feeling helpless to feeling like we're equipped to do something to make an impact, and we're feeling like we're moving from more isolation to more a sense of togetherness,
00:39:35
Speaker
Oh, I just know there will be more impact in the world and I know it'll make an impact on us in the journey. And maybe that is also connection to the third question that you asked. How is what I would say?
00:39:49
Speaker
Go on the journey. Let's do it. Don't just see the problems, like do something about it and do it with others. um We need that in today's world. Yeah.
00:40:00
Speaker
That's what I would say. And then where to learn more. If you want to learn more about Hope International, go to hopeinternational.org. If there's anything that we can try and do to help or equip or support you, we'd love to try and do it. But hopeinternational.org is where you can learn about the mission that we're a part of, of global poverty alleviation. um Yeah. In connection and partnership with with the global church.
00:40:21
Speaker
And then the last piece, if you want to learn more about any of the books or any of the writing, i can go PeterKGreer.com. That's just where I have the the different books. And um we have one that just came out called How Leaders Lose Their Way and kind of a journey of... um yeah, how do we have that long-term faithfulness in the mission that we have? how do we How do we not drift? How do we not lose our way? And what can we learn from some of the case studies that we've maybe seen in recent years? So those are the places to learn more, hopeinternational.org and peterkgreer.com.
00:40:58
Speaker
Thank you for that. And I did have questions about your most recent book, but given the time, you know, i didn't want to, i didn't want to keep you too long and run over at your next meeting. So who knows if this proves to be a valuable use of time, maybe I'll get you back here in the future. Valuable for you. I know it's valuable for me, but I'll say this, Peter, in addition to saying thank you.
00:41:24
Speaker
I recall when I saw you speak at CityGate that while I forget the exact topic, your presentation was just so compelling.
00:41:36
Speaker
And I think it comes through so some of why it was compelling is that you really have a heart for this, like you really believe in it's not just purely, you know, a job, let's say, which is maybe not surprising given some of the things that you've said about your faith and all that.
00:41:55
Speaker
But
00:41:58
Speaker
I think you can generally see it when someone is filled up with or or they're energized by their work. And you're one of those people. And that's part of the reason that I wanted to have you on. So I appreciate you bringing that here and I appreciate you joining me. So thank you again, Peter.
00:42:14
Speaker
It is a gift. Thanks for being a friend on the journey here. So thanks so much for the conversation and time. Thank you, Peter.