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Meet Sarah Hoyles
239 Plays2 years ago
Journalist Sarah Hoyles joins Duncan Kinney to talk about how Kenney just won't go away, her dramatic departure from Ryan Jespersen's show and the state of independent media in Alberta.
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Transcript
Voldemort's Listening?
00:00:00
Speaker
So I'm anticipating that, you know, he's probably listening. Voldemort, no. And so hey, hey, hey, hey. Maybe it's a hate listen, I don't know, just to see what I might say.
Beyond the Incident: A Journalism Career
00:00:17
Speaker
And, you know, I, I recognize that and I'm nervous about being on the show.
00:00:27
Speaker
But I know that, you know, I actually heard from a very prominent person in journalism and she DM'd me saying, don't let this define you. And I never dreamed of letting this define me, what happened with real talk, because my journalism career and my career was very viable and successful and respected prior to real talk. And it will be, and it will continue to be post real talk.
00:00:56
Speaker
Um, I was not made by that show. Um, I am who I am predating that show. And, uh, I mean, I'm, I'm almost, I almost feel like I don't want to talk about it at all because I don't want to encourage folks to go check out a show that, um, I can't stand behind. Oh, I don't think you have to worry about that with
Welcome to The Progress Report
00:01:37
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to The Progress Report. I am your host, Duncan Kinney. Recording today here in a Miskochiwa Skygun, otherwise known as Edmonton, Alberta, here in Treaty 6 territory on the banks of the mighty Kasiska-Sawana Sipi, or the North Saskatchewan River.
00:01:52
Speaker
Joining us today is the amazing Sarah Hoyles. Sarah has been a journalist and a broadcaster for more than a decade. She has produced and hosted with CBC as well as CQUA and is also a fellow podcaster. She's also the host of Makeout Mixtape on CDSR every Tuesday at 6 p.m. And Sarah, thanks for coming on the pod. I'm so happy to speak with you. Yeah, it's great to be here.
Alberta Politics and Jason Kenney's Resignation
00:02:18
Speaker
How are you doing, you know, given the circumstances? You know, Jason Kenney has resigned, but nothing has changed. The pandemic is not over, but everyone is acting like it is. How you doing? Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Yeah, I think you summed it up really nicely. The pandemic is not over, despite what people want desperately. I mean, the pandemic's not done with us, I guess I should say. And Kenney?
00:02:48
Speaker
I mean, I'm kind of, I feel good about it because, you know, with the NDP and who would be the next option or the only option really in the province to be other than the UCP when
00:03:03
Speaker
their campaigning when the NDP are campaigning, the idea is, you know, not Kenny, vote against Kenny, because we know that lots of people always spout off the thing that Albertans don't like, just like to vote for things that they don't want, they like to vote against things. So with Kenny still there, I think it actually does the NDP a favour. Whether or not that he sticks there, or when the, you know, leadership
00:03:32
Speaker
competition, goals into full swing, you know, that remains to be seen. Yeah, and before we get into the discussion that I know a lot of people want us to get to, I know there is some some news of the day bullshit that I just have to talk to you about.
00:03:49
Speaker
I hope you're okay with it. And let's start with Kenny because what the fuck is he doing? He is walking around doing press conferences, like absolute nothing burger press conferences where it's like, we're gonna build a building here. Like bro, like you resigned. Like what are you doing in front of media? Like hitting your talking points about how bad Ottawa is. Like are we all supposed to just pretend that he didn't resign?
00:04:16
Speaker
I don't understand the strategy. I really don't, but I like it. Because I think it does, you know, the the UCP can't claim that, you know, oh, new leadership. They're still under the same dude. They're still under the same guy. And, you know, the still the very hateful
00:04:39
Speaker
policies that they are spouting off about like, you know, with the opioid crisis and what's the legal not legalization, the decriminalization in the NBC for illicit drugs. Yeah, there's still lots of hate being spewed. So I just I think consistency works in our favor for the folks that don't want to see UCP continue.
00:05:04
Speaker
Like Kenny is still doing his radio show, you know, like his little Saturday morning. Like what kind of person does this? Like Kenny is, you know, literally George Costanza from that Seinfeld episode where he like quit and then tried to come back. But like the difference here is that Kenny is using his, you know, incredible power.
00:05:29
Speaker
to use, you know, both Kenny and George Costanza, I think have a fundamental dislike of humanity. The thing is, is that George Costanza is like a fictional character, whereas Jason Kenny has the ability and has, you know, killed and harmed thousands of people. You know, like, what the fuck? Like you lost, like the people, your own party didn't want you. The party you created hates you so much that only 51% of people wanted to keep you on.
BC's Drug Policy: A Small Step Forward
00:05:54
Speaker
It is wild. And I'm glad you brought up the decriminalization stuff because yes, just the other day, the province of British Columbia decriminalized small amounts of drugs.
00:06:08
Speaker
which is, it's not great policy actually, like two and a half grams is actually quite small. You know, this took far too long to actually get done, but it is a small step in the right direction. And Kenny, the man had like prepared notes and like torqued stats about all of this. Like he put out a statement, you know, through the official communication channels of the premier at 546 PM,
00:06:34
Speaker
like before a hockey game, like before a freaking like playoff game with the Oilers, like what is he thinking?
00:06:46
Speaker
Oh, boy, that's a lot to unpack. I mean, I agree with you. The threshold is very, very low. British Columbia actually wanted a threshold of 4.5 grams. They actually asked for that in November. And so to look at it, that is such a small amount that people that fear arrest or losing employment or housing or custody of their children,
00:07:12
Speaker
they because like that prevents them from wanting to access or being able to access harm reduction or health supports or even telling their friends and family. So that low threshold 2.5 is is a step in the right direction. I feel as far as harm reduction is concerned, but it's I think we could have taken a bigger step. And I just think it's rich that the idea that Alberta and Alberta politicians and the Alberta
00:07:42
Speaker
premier is telling wants to tell another province what to do. When you know, they keep they keep spouting off and taking the federal government to court to say hands off Alberta, you don't get to tell us what to do. It just it's the hypocrisy is thick.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah. I definitely want to get to that point about him and his underlings were complaining about how they weren't consulted about this decision, which is, of course, on its face, absurd. But Kenny is still... One thing that Kenny and even police chiefs, like the Alberta Association of Police Chiefs, Dale McPhee and Mark Neufeld and Calgary, one of the things that they talk about is like, oh, well, you don't need to decriminalize drugs because
00:08:32
Speaker
There's already de facto decriminalization. We're not charging people with simple possession. And it's like, well, then why do you care so much if the de facto decriminalization becomes real life decriminalization? I mean, I understand why they're doing it, but it is fundamentally incoherent.
00:08:54
Speaker
Agreed. I really just feel, you know, they need something to do. They need someone to serve and protect against. I don't think it's a good use of attention, focus, time, resources, etc, etc.
00:09:14
Speaker
There is a department in the New York City Police Department, an unofficial department called the Rubber Room Squad. I could be butchering that, but it's essentially, it's like cops who aren't allowed to do anything because they fucked up too much, but you can't fire them because obviously the cops are strong. Because the unions are way too strong, yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker
Cop unions are incredibly powerful, and it's almost impossible to fire cops. But if you fuck up enough of his cop, essentially you get designated to the rubber room squad, where you're not allowed to carry a gun, you're not allowed to really do anything. And I feel like we need that, but for Jason Kenny, where he's like, he can still pretend to be premier, but as long as he doesn't fucking do anything, sure, I guess. He needs his own hive dog. Just don't touch anything. Don't touch anything.
00:10:06
Speaker
I mean, that would be lovely, but I think we all know that his...
00:10:17
Speaker
I don't know, maybe just a simple word such as ego. I don't think that his ego would allow him to stand still, to not move, to take insights and perspectives from other people, to even heed research and scientific data-based information around what harm reduction
00:10:42
Speaker
and community services and programs actually do for poverty reduction and crime reduction.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah. And not only was Kenny kind of like wading into BCD Crim for some reason, but like his, his like underlings, you know, the justice minister, Tyler Shandrum, everyone's kind of like favorite Lego man. And associate minister, I think of mental health and addictions is official title, Mike Ellis. They were in Edmonton yesterday doing a presser for something, I don't know, not important, but like they too.
00:11:19
Speaker
They too decided to get on their hind legs and talk about this move towards decriminalization in BC. I'm just going to play you this 90 second clip because it's fucking hilarious. One second. My reaction?
00:11:36
Speaker
my reaction would be there's no evidence to support that that is an effective policy. I am extremely disappointed why the federal government would you know this I mean this is a cultural shift when you do when you do something like this there was no there was no engagement with the
00:11:58
Speaker
with the citizens of Canada. I'm not aware of any engagement with the people of British Columbia. I mean, this sort of thing is absolutely a cultural shift. And if you talk about, and I've spoken this before, when you talk about places such as Portugal as an example that went forward with decriminalization as an example, there was extensive consultation with the citizens of Portugal. Like, this was not something that was done through the stroke of the pen.
00:12:27
Speaker
My question, is this something, why did the federal government not bring this up in the ballot box? As the Solicitor General of the province, I have concerns with many of our small, urban, and rural communities that border with British Columbia. This is potentially going to increase a buyer's market. There's going to be, I think,
00:12:55
Speaker
it's going to be a significant impact on our bordering communities. And I think that should be a concern for all Albertans. So that's one. I don't know. Will someone please think of the poor people of field Alberta and the fact that they are field BC, I guess, and the neighboring people just over the border that they're going to be able to carry around two and a half grams worth of drugs and not be arrested? Like what the fuck?
00:13:22
Speaker
Are they worried? Maybe they're worried about, you know, the job creators. Maybe they're worried that, you know, those jobs are now going to be in BC. So where like, is that what we're worried about? Come on, guys. These, these two guys are absolute muppets and an embarrassment to Alberta. And it's like, can you imagine like the consultation part is the, like the most hilarious to me. But I do want to take just a minute to talk about decriminalization, about small amount of drugs. Cause like it is like a positive step.
00:13:52
Speaker
It's not a silver bullet or like a one-stop solution to the opioid poisoning epidemic It's really just an acknowledgment that the like the law enforcement approach to dealing with this health crisis has failed miserably and it's mostly just like a dignity and respect thing for people who use drugs like taking the ability away from cops to just like snatch drugs away and take their paraphernalia and threaten them with the rest like that is
Dignity, Respect, and Decriminalization
00:14:22
Speaker
again, just like a fundamental dignity and respect thing. And that's, I think, why you see such a strong reaction from Kenny and Chandra and Ellis, because it's like, well, no, why would we treat people who use drugs with dignity and respect? Like that's not what we fucking do, right? Yeah. I mean, the war on drugs has failed. It has failed everywhere.
00:14:49
Speaker
And so we need to move on from that. We need to move away from that and we need to look at it as a part of a much bigger picture and that drug use, addiction, what have you, stems from bigger issues and larger problems and so
00:15:14
Speaker
And it is around stigma. It's also around social services, what's available to folks. And by eliminating and shoehorning and forcing people to only have access to recovery programs is not meeting people where they're at. Maybe that's where someone will get eventually, but maybe not. And we need to stop being
00:15:38
Speaker
so prescriptive around what it means or what's allowed because it actually just leaves people behind and then they are left to their own means and there are other consequences to that. So I just think it's about bringing everybody along and meeting people where they're at. It's the most humane approach.
00:16:02
Speaker
Kenny has done a lot of damage in his time as premier. And I think one of the biggest, one of his biggest kind of like imprints on society is just how, how fucked up the opioid poisoning epidemic got under his watch and how he actively made it worse. He could have just not touched anything, right? Like he didn't have to do, he didn't have to further anything. He didn't have to put any more funding anywhere. He could have just left it alone.
00:16:32
Speaker
But he did the reverse. He did the opposite. He made it worse. Kenny's legacy. He made it worse. Not according to Ronna Ambrose or to Stephen Harper. They just spouted off about how much change and progress was made.
Sarah Hoyles' Journalism Journey
00:16:50
Speaker
Well, he did cause a lot of damage or progress, however you wanted to find it.
00:16:55
Speaker
Sarah, I think we've gotten the news of the day itch out that I wanted to get out this BCD crimp thing and the government of Alberta setting their hair on fire about it. I think it was like, okay, I got to talk about this with Sarah.
00:17:10
Speaker
The reason why I wanted you on it, and the reason why I think people are listening right now is people know you as the person who stood up to a bad boss walked out on them quite dramatically in the middle of a live taping of their show. But one of the reasons why I wanted to chat with you is that you are more than just that one very viewed social media incident, right?
00:17:36
Speaker
You are a journalist and a broadcaster who has worked in this field for what, like 10, 15 years now? How long have you been working in the field? Well, I got my journalism degree out on the East Coast at Dalhousie University. It's called University of King's College. It's on the same campus. I got that back in what, 2006? And then from there I went and I worked in the CBC Newsroom in Moncton, New Brunswick.
00:18:02
Speaker
My first job was a daily news reporter and then from there I vipped and bopped taking the different contracts. It was kind of like it was a really great way for me to see the country and the world ultimately by taking different contracts. I guess I'm just I'm finding I'm putting my rose-colored glasses on you know the state of journalism.
00:18:22
Speaker
And knowing that, you know, full-time permanent gigs don't really exist anymore. The golden era of, like, legit, strong permanent jobs does not exist anymore. It's freelance or bust. And so I just basically use that to my advantage. And I've worked, yeah, with, as you mentioned, with CBC and many different plants. In Winnipeg, I worked in Edmonton, CBC.
00:18:47
Speaker
And then I also worked at CKUA for a number of years. And then I've kind of switched gears and gone to consulting and helping folks do media relations and deal with the media because I know how to be in the media and then how to deal with them. So, yeah, that's kind of been my trajectory. And you got your journalism degree out on the East Coast, but where are you from? Oh, born and raised Edmonton.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah, but I swore up and down that the moment I could get out of here, I was gone and I was never, ever coming back. But this place just was never, it's just not done with me. So now I live here, I very much have a home.
00:19:34
Speaker
And my family is here. And I think it's just kind of like I fell in love with the place. I think it's not an obvious place. Some of my friends in Toronto are just kind of like, what? Why are you? They actually have asked me, like, why are you still in Edmonton? And I tell them, like, it's not an obvious place. And that's what I like about it. There's a lot going on.
00:19:58
Speaker
first glance, first blush, maybe you don't see it. But if you stick around and you get to know folks, it's a really engaging place. It's a really, such like catch-phrase-y terms, like it's such a vibrant place, but it is. I love it here.
00:20:17
Speaker
And so what pushed you into journalism? Why did you decide to get into this field that is full of rich, successful, loved people?
00:20:31
Speaker
It's so hokey and I'm going to sound like every little upstart journalism student or want to be journalist. It's like, I want to tell stories. I want to be a storyteller. Um, and yes, I do. Um, but I.
00:20:50
Speaker
I really wanted to go and do documentary film and in order to do that I had to go through two other sessions for the degree and then I ended up you know just kind of like well I want some hard skills so I decided to do the radio workshop and that blew my hair back and I just fell in love with
00:21:14
Speaker
the medium because it allows you with television, you always have to have wallpaper. You have to have the vis, the visuals to tell a story. If you don't have it, you can't tell the story. And so it kind of hamstrings people into what they can tell and where they can go and what stories they can share. And radio blows that wide open and says, you want to go to space? Sure. You want to go to 5,000 years ago? Absolutely.
00:21:43
Speaker
you want to go to the deep sea, you got it. And you can, you can go there and you can take the listeners there. And so for me,
00:21:54
Speaker
I realized that I wanted to, I really enjoy longer form journalism. That takes a lot of time and resources. So it's not something that is done a lot of these days. It's kind of like that golden era of, when I think of it, CBC and even the National Film Board of Canada, where there could be this exploratory longer form pieces. And that's, I kind of felt like I needed to do day-to-day daily grind, daily news,
00:22:23
Speaker
in my work hours and then I was gonna try to work off the side of my desk and do kind of passion projects. Some of the times that's worked, sometimes it hasn't.
Women in Journalism and Workplace Challenges
00:22:35
Speaker
So I have to ask you about, you know, your time on, you know, Real Talk with Ryan Jesperson, and I know this is the first- Sorry, what's that? I'm not sure what that is. Never heard of her. Don't know her.
00:22:49
Speaker
And, uh, and I noticed the first time you've kind of really recorded your thoughts, uh, you know, on the record since you walked off the job, but we were chatting before the pod and you were saying that you had reservations about, you know, working, uh, you know, for real talk before you even started. Didn't you? I did. And I checked in with folks that I trust very much and, um,
00:23:15
Speaker
I mean, when you look at the media landscape, when you look at the journalism landscape even more specifically, what opportunities are there? There are few and far between, and are they well-paying? Are they secure? Are they stable? And also, whose voice gets, listens to, who gets the opportunity to host a show? In my experience as a woman, it's
00:23:44
Speaker
it's more challenging. And I think when I spoke about some of the issues, there are a lot of white dudes with podcasts and there's more by the minute. So, and some people took issue with me saying that for sure. But I just was, there wasn't, there hasn't been opportunity for me. I mean, if a woman heads up a show, usually it's considered like a woman's issues show. And if,
00:24:14
Speaker
Um, if a person of color or black person indigenous, like, then it becomes, you know, special, special interest, special interest group, um, focus. And so I just, I saw the limitations and what opportunities were available to me. And I thought that by joining that team, I knew that there were shortcomings.
00:24:45
Speaker
But I thought I could manage. I really did. And that was naive of me. I thought I would be able to, as the editorial producer, help to focus and guide. But the personal cost was enormous.
00:25:10
Speaker
And I'm not interested in, you know, prosecuting the kind of minutia of what happened, you know, like, you know, at the end of the day, your boss decided to made a choice and decided to not stand up for you and side with some random TikToker. But I do have to say that what you did was incredibly brave and
00:25:38
Speaker
it's hard to do what you did. And I want to commend you for, again, it's never easy to stand up to your boss, and especially in the context of a media landscape where there's not a lot of jobs. And doing it in a very public fashion is very difficult. So I suppose my follow-up question is, what do you want the public to know about your time working on Real Talk and why you left?
00:26:08
Speaker
That's a really big question. I will say that, well, I wasn't sure if I should talk about it because ultimately
00:26:23
Speaker
The discourse that's been swirling around this in just a speculation has been wild. And there were people that said that I did it for notoriety. You did it for the clout? Yeah. And that, I mean,
00:26:45
Speaker
The tropes were definitely thrown around. A lot of them that I got included that I was too sensitive. I was emotional. I couldn't handle the heat. I couldn't handle the pressure. I was
00:27:08
Speaker
mentally not well. I mean, just all the tropes that are used to try to diminish and discount when women speak about issues, things that are of legitimate concern to them. So I want to start there. So yeah, I
00:27:35
Speaker
I have reservations about talking about it because it just, it gets weaponized. Well, why don't I, I've got my own kind of little anecdote about, you know, conflict with Jesperson. So like, let me just, let me tell it, maybe there's a riff on there. There's something you can pull out of it. But, you know, I know people kind of want the podcast wars to roar back to life. And, you know, it's probably not the biggest news out there that I am not the biggest Ryan Jesperson fan.
00:28:01
Speaker
Uh, you know, he tried to get my colleague Jim Story in trouble. Um, you know, after Jim quite rightly roasted Ryan for hosting a screening of Vivian Krause documentary. And after I stood behind Jim, he like didn't have me on his show anymore. You know, was talking shit about me. I think he was still at, at Chad at the time. And let's be,
00:28:24
Speaker
Real for a second, Jim's criticism of Ryan was incredibly correct. Ryan lending his name to Vivian Kraus, come the fuck on. The government spent years and millions of dollars investigating her claims and not a speck of wrongdoing was found.
00:28:41
Speaker
But, you know, the reason I bring that up is because it's part of a pattern of behavior with Ryan. Like he does not seem to be able to kind of take and internalize criticism. Everything is kind of like attack, attack, attack. Well, there's so much that I want to say, but also feel like I can't. And I also
00:29:01
Speaker
or that I shouldn't, or that I'll just line myself up for more of the same. Because I really had hoped that there would be some accountability, but what I saw is just a closing of the ranks and people saying, you know, it's this one time and it's just one person, it's not me. And they, it's been,
00:29:31
Speaker
It's been really hard to see. I don't know, Duncan. Um, it's in your, I mean, we were talking about this earlier, right? Like it's incredibly rare for like well-known white guys to get canceled. Right. And not that that's what you were looking for, but he, there was a closing of the ranks and you know, he did not face any consequences. It did not seem to learn anything from the incident with you.
00:29:57
Speaker
And I get why you're reluctant to talk about it again, like you're putting yourself out there. And, you know, you got treated like shit, you know, very publicly over standing up for yourself, which is so fucking bizarre. I mean, the thing is about that is I tried everything.
Addressing Media Misconduct
00:30:19
Speaker
I tried everything to avert what ended up happening
00:30:27
Speaker
in the in mid March, I tried to internally within the organization, because this is a pattern of behavior, I can only speak and will only speak about my experience. But this is a pattern of behavior that predates me. And I
00:30:46
Speaker
tried to address it and use the proper channels to address it. So there could be growth and there could be change and I could stay there. I took immense pride in my work and knowing that the audience there is, I mean, we can pretend all we want that
00:31:13
Speaker
it's left leaning on that show, it's not. I personally think that it's a big game of pretend, you know, that progressives, I hate that term, but I'll use it because it's just what people use. But progressives are, you know, wanting to have that champion and wanting him to be
00:31:42
Speaker
one of them and a part of them. And so there's been a lot of turning a blind eye to some pretty blatant indicators that he is not an ally and he is not safe. And so I tried everything, I put stuff in writing, I put in requests asking for change
00:32:11
Speaker
And this is before March, 2022. And it was an even, it spanned over two days, what was very public. I think that's one of the things that's most incredible is that it was caught on tape and it is there for everyone to see. And yet people discount it and say that it was a one-off and it's not,
00:32:42
Speaker
it's not problematic and that they're willing to look past it. And that's the thing about why people like this get to continue to hurt people is because of the communities and the other folks around them that enable it to continue.
00:33:07
Speaker
And I think that's what's been very challenging to watch is that funders, guests. I mean, I don't knock the people that don't know. Like if you don't know, you don't know. But if you understand and you maybe even witnessed it, watched it, and you still align yourself,
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah, like hasn't Supriya DaVetti been on the show like since you walked off? Pretty sure she has. As far as I know numerous times and that to me is just, I mean, I also know that, you know, people have a book to launch or they have their brand that they want to continue to get out there. But this is what I'm finding. It's just people are really showing their true colors.
00:34:02
Speaker
And I just, I caution folks against that because it sends a very clear message that you're not safe. You are, you're willing to put your notoriety. I don't know, like I, that's why I just, I don't necessarily feel like I, like I'm not built for the media. I'm really not.
00:34:32
Speaker
Let's talk about the opportunities for journalists and the state of local independent media in Alberta.
Independent Media in Alberta
00:34:41
Speaker
It is incredibly difficult for new independent outlets that are not associated with a major media brand or some level of government or some weird industrial concern to get off the ground.
00:35:01
Speaker
Right? Like it seems like you do, it's not even like it seems like you do need a benefactor to get off the ground, whether it's a foundation or a rich guy or a bunch of advertisers, you know, organized labor. I mean, I think what independent media, like let's take an example like Canada land, right?
00:35:23
Speaker
Huge, lots of support from its audience that their audience kicks in significant part of that organization's revenue, but it's not all of it. It's not a hundred percent reader supported. And, you know, they've partnered with foundations. They've got like weird investments. They have advertisements like we don't have advertisements. You know, you will never find Bitcoin well as a sponsor of the progress report. Don't say that. Beat that out. Don't give them.
00:35:54
Speaker
Well, yeah, fair enough. But like, um, like indies that don't do ads, like non, like us, you know, we need way more audience buy in than kind of other outlets, but it's still incredibly hard, right? Like the, the major players, the entrenched media players command so much airspace, have such a larger platform and you're starting from scratch. Like it's just so difficult to get off the ground.
00:36:24
Speaker
I think that's fair to say, but I actually would zoom out further. And maybe this is me just sounding super idealistic. But when I think about journalism, so if I'm speaking journalism, I do not see journalism and media as interchangeable. I see them as, I could see that journalism could fit and slot underneath media, but not all media is journalism. There's lots of infotainment out there.
00:36:52
Speaker
So there's that. And the idealistic part that I was going to mention is the idea that journalism is fundamental to a functioning democracy. And there are principles of an ethics of effective journalism. And so I truly believe that non-commercial
00:37:21
Speaker
ventures in journalism are essential because when we get advertisers in there, when we get money in there that has special interests, it skews. We don't have to look very far. You look at Fox, like we know what bent they're coming from.
00:37:44
Speaker
I mean, and if we're looking more locally, we look at Global, we look at CTV, we look at Citi. They are commercial television. Their newscasts have sponsors.
00:37:59
Speaker
when they only employ a handful of journalists and they're not really, and then they're not, they're not, not, they're not really, they are not in explicitly not in the business of like public interest, accountability, journalism, like no one from, you know, global is going to be writing about how the chamber of commerce avoided paying $150,000 in taxes, right? Like a story that we just broke like last week. Yeah, that's not, that's, that's not going to happen. So I, I, I just,
00:38:30
Speaker
I worry about the splintering. And so yes, it is concerning that post media and their columnists are spewing hatred and intolerance and out and out lies. But I just feel like the splintering is not actually doing
00:38:54
Speaker
us, the greater us, the like Albertans, the people, the people, um, any favors. It's about, and I'm not talking about consolidation. Like to me, I'm not, I don't have solutions. I'm sorry. Like I'm not, I, I just, I'm seeing the splintering and the factions and camps showing up and taking shape. And I truly believe that
00:39:23
Speaker
the CBC is essential because it is...
00:39:32
Speaker
it is publicly funded. That is essential. But I also know that it has bias as well. Well, and it's built on the exploitation of journalists, right? Like the temporary short-term contract hustle that so many journalists get caught up in working for the CBC is so kind of fundamentally exploitative. And I assume you have firsthand experience with that, right? Correct. So there's
00:40:00
Speaker
Man, am I saying the quiet stuff out loud? Yes, that is many people's experience. Previously, the CBC, when it was very well-funded, was a very stable place to work. Over the years, it hasn't been able to maintain that. And so to me, I mean,
00:40:29
Speaker
I know that there's, the goal is to be objective, but as humans, we are fallible and we have subjectivity. We just, we do. And so you can always aim for that. And I just, I try to access forms of media that strive for objectivity.
Media Consumption and Critical Listening
00:40:47
Speaker
Strive is the operative word. But I also make sure that I am accessing a variety of sources. So in my, like my morning routine is to listen to the BBC
00:40:59
Speaker
NPR, CBC, and Al Jazeera, and listen to their newscasts. And it's really interesting to listen to what is covered, how it's covered, what similarities there are, the differences, but also things that aren't picked up by the different outlets.
00:41:16
Speaker
And that allows me, it's not that I'm cynical, it's that I'm critical. I think it's important to be very critical of what forms of media I'm exposing myself to and making sure that I don't just panned over my trust willy-nilly.
00:41:34
Speaker
I'm glad you brought up post media because I read post media stories. They have great reporters doing hard news coverage, but that company is just so fundamentally evil with this kind of sclerotic columnist managerial editorial class that just sits over top of and sucks all the value off of that's created by these young
00:41:58
Speaker
And usually very good, hardworking journalists who cover their beats incredibly well, but like you can only stay for so long at those positions until you move on because like.
00:42:09
Speaker
One, there's no columnists or managerial or editorial gigs for you because you're in your 20s. And they just don't want you either. They're set up. They pulled up the ladder behind them. And the star these days is tweeting the star Edmonton.
00:42:29
Speaker
Twitter account is like tweeting baseball scores and wire copy into my feed. They've abandoned Alberta. I think we've gone through all of the media outlets that operate here. It's dire for media workers. It's bad for media consumers. Not that this has been a whole 40 minute excuse to
00:42:53
Speaker
ask people for money but like you know if you like if you've listened to all of this and you know that you agree with or that you like the stuff that we produce and the way we hold powerful people to account give us money or give money to another independent media outlet right like it's it is as you said fundamental to like a functioning society and it is so dire right now yeah looking at the
00:43:19
Speaker
like inventory of journalists, especially with post media. I mean, the ones that are really promising, they shift over and have, I mean, I just feel like it's just been this conga line over to a Globe and Mail. Like they just, it seems to be where- Or the CBC, right? Janet French, for instance. Yeah. And so, and I don't blame them. Like there's,
00:43:47
Speaker
Oh, no, you have to take you have to take you have to take what you can get. But then you also need to see what what else is out there. You have to start somewhere. And when you say that, you know, because of the way the media landscape is, it's hard for journalists. It's also what it ends up doing is makes it really hard for just everyday folks to make sense of what's going on.
00:44:17
Speaker
It's really important that there are outlets that can be trusted and that have integrity at their core. Where those are, they're fewer and far between. But again, I think it's about being, you can listen to, like I can listen to all kinds of stuff. I just need to always listen with a very critical ear and not take things at face value.
00:44:47
Speaker
Sarah, I want to say I really appreciate you coming on the show to talk to me.
No Period Without and Period Poverty
00:44:52
Speaker
I know it wasn't easy. And in that vein of like, you know, support your local journalists, like how can people follow along with the work that you're doing? You know, now is the time to kind of plug your pluggables. That's really interesting. I'm so not about plugging my stuff. I always just want my work to speak for itself. So this is so uncomfortable. I guess I could talk about
00:45:17
Speaker
you know, no period without, which is an organization which deals with period poverty in Edmonton. Ultimately, you know, having products for menstruation is, it costs money. And if you don't have access to those kinds of resources, your period's still coming. So the organization is
00:45:44
Speaker
you know, finding ways to get donations and fundraising and get menstruation products to those in need. And yeah, there's a news note on that too, which is by the middle of the month, uh, city of Edmonton is supposed to have free menstruation products in all of its, uh, public bathrooms that it operates. So FYI, which is a policy that no period without push for, I believe.
00:46:10
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Scarlett is the one that is really leading on this, and she's the one that started No Period Without. So she's really the one that's been having those conversations. I'm in the supporting cast, kind of the place I like to be. And yeah, it's ultimately about making sure that people, I mean, words that you used earlier, dignity and respect, and being able to live with dignity.
Makeout Mixtape: Sex Positivity on Air
00:46:38
Speaker
And have what you need not having more than what you need. Just just what you need Well, now's your last chance to play anything but oh my gosh, oh the pressure, um, I don't know there's I assume you're on Twitter follow follow Sarah on Twitter. Oh sure. Follow me on Twitter Sarah hoyles at Sarah hoyles
00:46:59
Speaker
Makeout mixtape. Makeout mixtape, yeah. Okay, so this show, it's a funny little creature. It's a show about sex positivity and consent, because that's important. And I like to say that it's all music. It's not like I'm spouting off about anything. It's not sex with Sarah, like sex with Sue or whatever. No, it's not Sue Johansson's Sunday Night Sex Talk. No, I wish that's that is definitely the pinnacle. No, it's just meant to be it's a fun music.
00:47:29
Speaker
I'm going to do that again. It's a mix of music, wall to wall music, and it builds to a crescendo, a climax, if you will.
00:47:39
Speaker
in the show through music and then there are examples of how to give and receive uh consent uh and basically saying like masturbation is a okay folks get at or get or done and uh also make sure that if you are making out with somebody that it's consensual and
00:47:59
Speaker
So it's all about showing instead of telling. It's not heavy-handed. It's fun. And then, yeah, you just get to learn about different ways and examples. You hear the examples of how to give consent. And that's Tuesdays at 6, right? Tuesdays at 6 for an hour. Yeah, and I mix different music. So it's, yeah, it's just this little baby project that I've always wanted to do. I've talked about doing it forever. And just in the last year, I finally realized it.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, I just like to create and let my work speak for itself. Brilliant. Folks, if you have any notes, thoughts, or comments, I am very easy to get ahold of. I am on Twitter also at Duncan Kinney. And you can reach me by email at DuncanK at progresselberta.ca. Thank you to Jim Story for editing this podcast. Thank you to Cosmic Family Communist for our theme. Thank you for listening and goodbye.