Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
At The Bouncy Castle of Madness
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Jeremy recounts the harrowing tale of his visit to a separatist rally on Canada Day in Mirror, Alberta.
Check out Jeremy's original article on this event on his blog The Orchard at www.readtheorchard.org/p/canada-day-with-the-separatists.
To support the Progress Report podcast and keep us free of advertisements for mattresses and nutritional supplements, head over to theprogressreport.ca/patrons.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Background
00:00:12
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to another episode of the Progress Report podcast. This July the 4th, we are recording from Ameskwichiwa Skygan in Treaty 6 territory, otherwise known as Edmonton,
Jeremy's Controversial Adventure
00:00:24
Speaker
Alberta.
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm your co-host, Jim Story, and we have our co-host Jeremy Appel with us today to tell us an interesting story about his descent into the Maw of Madness. Jeremy, how are you?
00:00:39
Speaker
I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. Not as badly sunburned as i feared.
Experiencing the Separatist Rally
00:00:44
Speaker
um I did leave my sunscreen ah at home ah when I went to the um separatist rally on Canada Day outside the Whistle Stop Cafe.
00:01:00
Speaker
um And it turns out anti-vaxxers aren't too keen on sunscreen. ah Yeah, you're supposed to wear a cowboy hat, I think, sure if you're part of that crowd.
00:01:11
Speaker
Oh, I wore a cowboy hat. I've never seen you in a cowboy hat. Do you ah do rock it? How's the look for you? um Pretty good. Pretty good. I have a photo I can send you if you want to make it the the art for the episode.
00:01:28
Speaker
saw it back when i lived in Calgary. And actually, when I went to the conservative ah party stampede barbecue, I got one to fit in, which is where i hunted Jason Kenney down and forced him to take a photo with me.
00:01:46
Speaker
Are you a known quantity at those events, like by you know by facial recognition? Because um you know Duncan was a known quality to those people eventually, and they could they could make him at events very quickly. Do they do they make you when you sneak into their events?
00:02:02
Speaker
Well, this is actually, this is, I would say, a different crowd than like the sort of the mainstream federal conservative party audience. I mean, I'm sure that there's a bit overlap, but this is um I mean, these are like the...
00:02:18
Speaker
um you know, I would say more fringe, uh, actors, uh, here, right. You got Cam Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republican party, uh, you know, Maxime Bernier, um, uh, is German, um,
00:02:39
Speaker
far right politician, I'll say for legal reasons um ah that they flew in. You know, one might wonder how they paid that. is the one from the AFD, right?
00:02:52
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Christine Anderson.
Christine Anderson's Controversial Visit
00:02:54
Speaker
I mean, it's actually a good illustration of sort of the gap between sort of this audience and the mainstream conservative party of Canada crowd. Yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
because a couple years ago, uh, shoes in town, apparently she comes to Canada a lot, actually. um Yeah, she's she's on the like the convoy speaking circuit, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a big convoy booster. And that's sort of how she popped onto the radar of the Canadian ah far right. And anyways, she met with a few conservative MPs, ah Dean Allison, Leslie Lewis, and one other whose name escapes me.
00:03:32
Speaker
And it was a big controversy. And Polyev ah denounced her. He called her like hateful and bigoted. ah Which, you know, I mean, that takes a lot if pure polyam is calling you a bigot. um And so ah yeah, that that caused a headache for him. So, um you know, this isn't like, I think I am familiar to the mainstream ah conservative crowd. Of course, the UCP is sort of a bridge between the two, i would say. um i remember I...
00:04:06
Speaker
i when I was at the, the stampede barbecue a few years ago, I guess would be four years ago now, three or four years ago. I remember I went up to Brian Jean to just, you know, me shake his hand.
00:04:23
Speaker
And i was like, hi, I'm Jeremy. He's like, I know who you are. And then just like aggressively walked away. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think those people know who I am.
00:04:34
Speaker
um, This crowd, you know, I told these people I was an independent journalist and their eyes kind of, you know, lit up thinking I was, you know, the type of independent quote unquote journalists that they um are into, ah you know, emphasize not mainstream media and, you know, they love it um Yeah, iss there's some like very shallow common ground you can pretend to have with these guys. Yeah.
00:05:04
Speaker
we're both We're all populists, I suppose, right? We we do it a little differently, but yeah you could maybe connect with them on you know disliking the ah the elite, the Laurentian elite, the experts.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, I don't like Carney either. know Don't ask me why I don't like Carney, because you know you might not like what you hear, but... um yeah i Yeah, there is some superficial common ground for sure.
00:05:34
Speaker
And you know going to enough of these things, ah whether it's like a UCP thing or a federal conservative a thing or the Canada Strong and Free Network Conference or like a net-right separatist event, there's you know You sort of get a sense of how to talk to people and just you know you're there, you're respectful,
00:05:57
Speaker
um maybe push back against something someone says quite lightly, but then you know I just go home and write whatever I want. But when I'm there, I'm like you know um' their guest, so to speak. And so i don't you know I'm not there to ah argue with anyone.
00:06:18
Speaker
For sure. Well, okay, set the stage for us a bit. So it's Canada day um Normal Canadians are out celebrating the three mining companies and the glorious trench coat. I personally said a little bit of a prayer for Barrick Gold, but you have these people out of this rally ah you know engaging in a little a little heresy, a little anti-Canadianism.
00:06:43
Speaker
So who was on the bill? How many people did you see there? What sort of stuff was going on? Was it um you know just just some folks in a stage? Did they have amenities? Was there ah kid's playpen?
00:06:57
Speaker
Was there a lot of media coverage? i want i want to i want the whole picture. Tell me everything you saw. So yeah, I mean, I was the only ah media there. I mean, there were you know theres some like vloggers and stuff who were like recording it, but...
00:07:13
Speaker
you know but um I'm pretty sure I was the only person who went there and then sat down and wrote something about it. Right. And ah basically, I mean, there were hundreds of people there. um You know, it was a full day thing. Right. So I would say throughout the day, I wouldn't be surprised if there were 500 people, which would be double the population of the town of Muir.
00:07:39
Speaker
Or I guess it mirrors not probably not in town. It's a Hamlet. Right. Right.
Highlighting the Whistle Stop Cafe
00:07:44
Speaker
Um, and, um, yeah, so it's the whistle stop cafe, which you may remember from the COVID pandemic when it's owner, a fellow by the name of Chris, uh,
00:07:57
Speaker
um
00:08:01
Speaker
whose last name escapes me, but whatever, he's not important, um refused to, ah you know, shut down when indoor dining was shut down. Right.
00:08:11
Speaker
And it became this sort of cause celeb of the anti-lockdown, anti-vax crowd that, you know, the premier embraced on her path to ah becoming the premier.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. And so you had on ah sort of the, the the I guess it would be the north side of the cafe ah was a stage where there were bunch of speakers, right? People I mentioned before, Kim Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republicans, ah Christine Anderson was the keynote, Maxime Bernier,
00:08:51
Speaker
um ah Dr. Dennis Modry of the Alberta Prosperity Project, who is actually a medical doctor, he's a surgeon.
00:09:03
Speaker
um And then... ah You walk south past the restaurant there are bunch of vendors set up. ah Multiple separatist parties had tables, not just the Republicans, but also the Independence Party of Alberta, which has been around longer. Actually was founded by a friend of the show, Corey Morgan of the Western Standard.
00:09:33
Speaker
One of our two favorite Corys at this podcast. Well, you know, by comparison, I think the other Corey is someone I would ah prefer to be in a room with.
00:09:50
Speaker
You know, I'll say that. um but um Yeah, and there were people selling art and stuff. There was ah one
Vendor Interactions and Curiosities at the Rally
00:10:01
Speaker
woman... What was the ah the art like, if I can interject? Was it like AI slop or or handmade stuff? to to Tell me about the art. there was one tenant I was compelled by because she had an Alberta flag and an Israeli flag on one side. So i was like, I got to talk to this person. Oh, yeah, that's her spot.
00:10:18
Speaker
Didn't end up making the story. it was handmade art. It looked good. I talked to this woman. She essentially lives out of her RV. um She has a mailing address and medicine hat, she told me. um and I was just like ah curious about the Israeli flag, you know whether she sort of sees Alberta, um like you know sort of Israel sees itself as this like ah beacon of civilization surrounded by barbarians on all side ah all sides.
00:10:48
Speaker
um She told me she actually sees Alberta more like South Africa um in you know and you know but buys into the like white genocide conspiracy theory and says that you know we're moving down that path ah with Mark Carney. Israel, she's shes she's a Christian nationalist, which we'll well we'll get to shortly.
00:11:10
Speaker
ah you know I think a broader discussion of that connection with the Alberta separatist movement that you've ah highlighted before. um and she you know said like sort of the Ted Cruz thing that, well, God ah protects those who protect Israel, right?
00:11:27
Speaker
And that was it. And ah you know I just said something about a lot law of Palestinian children dying. you know It's kind of heartbreaking to see. And then, of course, you know she gave me the Hasbro line about how well it's different because Israel drops leaflets, ah you know telling entire neighborhoods that they're about to get flattened. So it's OK.
00:11:54
Speaker
And you know again, I wasn't there to argue with anyone. So was like, oh, yes, very interesting. and um So there's that. um There was a guy selling um um swords to cut wood with, which was interesting. Yes, I'm interested in this. Tell me ah Well, I mean, there's really not much to elaborate on. ah you know They're swords. and They look like sharp blades. And I was like, why are they selling swords? That's crazy. And then I walk closer and it's like, oh, it's being advertised as to cut wood.
00:12:29
Speaker
but like what ah what What kind of sword are we talking here? Do you know your Oakshoft models? but these Are these like knight swords, like symmetrical knight swords, or more like a machete?
00:12:40
Speaker
No, no, They're like they're closer to knight swords. They're actual swords. Like an ah an Alberta separatism blade. yes Yeah, exactly. um How much were they? if i Just out of curiosity. Oh, that's a good question. I didn't ask. I just kind of is observed. um i should have I should have inquired.
00:13:01
Speaker
ah Could have bought a Progress Alberta. Yeah. I mean, money money has been a little tight at the Progress shop, but I do think you should have called me and asked me about this purchase. i but We might have been able to fit this in.
00:13:13
Speaker
Well, you know, there's always next time.
Performances and Political Speeches
00:13:16
Speaker
So moving south past the vendors was the music stage where freedom fighter Tamara Lich, as she was referred to in the event literature, um played a set with her band after the speakers were all done. Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
yeah um she, is she has a band. I was, uh, surprised and, amused to learn, um with herself playing guitar and singing another guitarist who, uh, sing some songs and a drummer, no bass.
00:13:52
Speaker
Um, I stayed for a couple, ah ah couple songs. Uh, she opened with a cover of Folsom prison blues by Johnny cash, but changed lyrics.
00:14:05
Speaker
Make it about the convo and her time behind bars, which was pretty funny. um And then they did a cover of Johnny Cash's cover of Rusty Cage by Soundgarden.
00:14:20
Speaker
um And ah operating the sound for that ah music tent was someone who might be quite familiar to Progress Report readers, Benita Peterson.
00:14:34
Speaker
Oh, yes. He's sort of this Alberta ah hard right activist. ah Used to be an organizer with Take Back Alberta, but I think had a bit of a falling out with David Parker.
00:14:46
Speaker
oh wonder how that could have happened. He's such a nice guy. So easy to get along with. I mean, he's polite, you know, for what it's worth. But... um Um, she moonlights as a DJ and a karaoke host, uh, has a company called all fired up, um, which, uh, also, uh, runs an organization called all fired up for freedom. That was like, you know, like sort of, uh, uh, anti COVID restriction thing. And I talked to her.
00:15:23
Speaker
Because, you know, she's a prominent voice in these circles about – so I was interested in what a lot of these people think of the premier who, you know, for people like us, seems to be giving them what they want.
00:15:35
Speaker
Or at the very least, inching things in their direction. And she said, well, she likes the premier a lot, but ah she needs to go further, right? Why are we having all these referendums? Just do it, right?
00:15:47
Speaker
Just do an Alberta police force, which she is doing now, ah was announced the day after. um do an Alberta pension plan, which, you know, I mean, if you want an Alberta pension plan, you're not going to get through a referendum.
00:16:02
Speaker
Uh, right. Like that is ah very unpopular idea. um particularly among pensioners who are, um you know, I think, uh, clearly a target demographic, uh, the average age at this event, I would say would be like 55. It was quite an older crowd.
00:16:22
Speaker
Um, and ah almost exclusively white. you know in ah ah you know When I go to like mainstream conservative party things and post a picture, people will comment on Twitter, oh, look at all these white people. But, I mean, Polyev, and of course, Kenny, um in and then into Smith, and but this was Kenny's specialty, did create this sort of very diverse...
00:16:47
Speaker
At least, you know, ethnically, religiously diverse ah conservative ah electorate. um There wasn't any of that here. This was all white people, mostly from central Alberta, again, some from southern Alberta.
00:17:02
Speaker
um And, um, yeah. So back to the speaker stage, which was where I spent most of the afternoon.
00:17:12
Speaker
I got, I arrived as Maxime Bernier was, um, giving his speech and, you know, one might wonder, I mean, here's a guy from Quebec. leader of a federal party, a marginal federal party, but a federal party nonetheless, that's spending Canada Day at an Alberta separatist rally.
00:17:32
Speaker
And I asked him about that after I approached him He's an approachable guy, right? Like a lot of politicians are. He's polished, you know, he's... ah somewhat charming, i would say. um you know, and he was saying that, well, actually, he voted to for Quebec to separate in 1995.
00:17:54
Speaker
um Not because he was a separatist, but because he ah thinks that the Canadian Constitution
00:18:06
Speaker
calls for sort of this radical decentralization, which, you know, I'll Leave ah analysis of that to constitutional scholars who, um you know, you read people like Eric Adams at U of A who, you know, would suggest otherwise.
00:18:24
Speaker
But that was his thing. Shout out to Ablog.ca. A-B-L-A-W-G dot C-A. That's the University of Alberta. believe it's U of C, actually. But a lot of U of A people contribute to it, like Eric Adams, Andrew Leach.
00:18:42
Speaker
um the the The use in a, let me let me give myself that save. Really great site. They they read ah a lot there that is actually pretty approachable for a lay person.
00:18:56
Speaker
And there's a lot of political content on that site too. So listeners, become readers.
Legal Insights and Modry's Controversial Views
00:19:02
Speaker
Check that one out. A-B-L-A-W-G. It's got very good legal analysis of like a whole wide array of issues, um you know I think heavily but probably focuses largely on like environmental and energy issues, which are special importance.
00:19:24
Speaker
Um, but you know, they, they did a great takedown of the university of Calgary and university of Alberta's justifications for, um, shining down their Palestine encampments. For example, uh, Jennifer Koshin and Jeanette, uh, Watson Hamilton, ah Drew Uchuk, uh, writes for them a lot, uh, really smart, uh, younger guy. um Yeah, definitely a publication ah worth checking out.
00:19:53
Speaker
But I digress. um Basically, Bernier's argument was that Albertans need to vote to separate to get um ah you know more provincial autonomy for everyone. And then Albertans can decide whether they actually want separate or not.
00:20:12
Speaker
um But he said, you know you look at the Quebec referendum and 49% of Quebecers voted to separate and they didn't get anything as a result because the majority, slim majority, but majority nonetheless voted to stay.
00:20:30
Speaker
And so he said, we we need to you need to vote to separate to get what you want. um Now, Dr. Dennis Modry from the Alberta Prosperity Project ah begged to differ and ah noted that ah in the Clarity Act, the Clarity Act, which was passed in 2000 in response to a Supreme Court of Canada decision about the ah Quebec referendum that was like, okay, here are here's the process under which a province, um if
00:21:07
Speaker
can have a referendum and if it gets a clear majority, which is undefined um in the legislation, but it makes clear is more than just what was the case, what you know more than just
00:21:27
Speaker
here are the steps that that need to be taken, and then they might separate. That's the that they enter negotiations that could result in separation, but not necessarily.
00:21:38
Speaker
Modri said that's not good enough that within Canada, we actually don't have this framework for separatism, which is why, and this is where it got wild, we need to get international recognition for independent Alberta and to declare independence unilaterally.
00:21:55
Speaker
And what Oh, so now now these guys believe in the United Nations. Yeah, no, it's interesting. But but in in in in he compared it to Kosovo, which declared independence unilaterally from Serbia in 2008 and was recognized by the US, Canada, Japan, ah like basically the G7 countries. And then yeah it just became an independent state.
00:22:19
Speaker
um Now, you know, the context... bit different in Kosovo, I would i would say. um And, you know, it made me wonder. Of course, NATO ah bombed Serbia for days in to support the Kosovo Liberation army ah which itself committed a lot of atrocities as did Serbia, of course.
00:22:47
Speaker
um And I mean, there's a whole history of Yugoslavia disintegrating. And um then ah through that, uh,
00:23:02
Speaker
Kosovo, which is majority Albanian ah minority Serbian, wanting to separate from Serbia, right? And so it did lead me to wonder, is that Modri's vision for an independent Alberta? NATO's selling Edmonton for three months? Yeah, and again, it would be more analogous like Kosovo would be more analogous to a situation where Alberta separates, BC separates, Saskatchewan separates, Manitoba separates, Quebec separates, the Atlantic provinces separate.
00:23:37
Speaker
And then you're left with Ontario. And then an analogy for Kosovo would be if ah you know Northern Ontario wanted to separate from Ontario, which was the last remaining sort of vestige of Canada.
00:23:54
Speaker
That would be a more apt analogy than than Alberta. Again, i don't think he thought it through. i think he just saw, ooh, Kosovo, they laterally declared independence and got international recognition ah without thinking through, ah okay how did they get to that point? Is that what you want Alberta to do? Do you want there to be ethnic cleansing?
00:24:15
Speaker
um Because that was the case in Kosovo of Albanians, um but also of Serbs. um yeah And then there's a situation in Bosnia, which i think is widely considered now to be a genocide against Muslims, um particularly the Srebrenica massacre, which the ICJ determined to be ah genocidal.
00:24:41
Speaker
um And you know again, ethnic cleansing of Croats as well, and Serbs. um Again, I don't think we want be Kosovo. it to To be charitable to Dr.
Alberta's Separatist Agenda and Social Impacts
00:24:54
Speaker
Modri, I don't imagine that he is fantasizing about that level of bloodshed, but If this project of theirs were to go forward, you would you would certainly see the dial of social murder get turned up a Yeah, I mean, it already is.
00:25:09
Speaker
um And, so um you know, I mean, if your view is that Alberta needs to separate by any means necessary, then, I mean, what are the means necessary, right? Yeah.
00:25:21
Speaker
tren Trench warfare. Trench warfare around the Henday. Yeah. Well, and then, I don't know, ah what about the BC interior? They're a lot like Alberta culturally, so do do we foment, you know, separatist elements in the BC interior to, ah you know, cut them off from the mainland?
00:25:45
Speaker
um and And that's another interesting thing, because there were some people there wearing, like, candidate gear. wearing like Canada stuff. And so before I left, I approached this one ah older woman whose name is Trisha.
00:26:03
Speaker
And i asked her, you're you know, you're at the Separatist event, you're wearing Canada Day gear, what's up with that? She's like, well, we are a part of Canada for now. And um she she she described to me that there essentially now two streams of thought.
00:26:21
Speaker
in alberta separatists um um In the Alberta separatist movement, you've got the Wexit people, right the classic Wexit people, who essentially envision ah BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba.
00:26:39
Speaker
the Western provinces separating from Eastern Canada, which is where how she identified. And then you have the 51st staters who just want to become part of the U S and she, she said she's more of a Wexit person. She thinks, you know, that, um, uh, you know, sort of took the, uh, United we stand divide. We fall, um,
00:27:08
Speaker
mentality in turn around its head. It's like, actually, I think we're stronger if we're divided, which is okay.
00:27:17
Speaker
Well, I mean, looking at what Carney's been doing recently, maybe she has a point. His elbows-up routine has been interesting to watch. Well, what's been interesting is seeing people on Blue Sky try and justify it. Be like, no, no, no, he's playing 3D chess. He's actually standing up to Trump.
00:27:36
Speaker
by doing everything Trump wants. You wouldn't understand. It's like really high-level stuff, right?
00:27:44
Speaker
No, I've i've watched Star Trek. I understand through the chats. Okay, well, let's get back to the Sepharists. So it sounds like you're describing there being kind of three driving factions here.
00:27:59
Speaker
The Alberta Republican Party people, the Alberta Prosperity Project people, and then sort of the the convoy crowd from outside of Alberta that was participating. Would it be accurate to say that those were the three driving forces at this rally?
00:28:16
Speaker
I mean, yes, but I would emphasize that there's overlap, immense overlap between them, you know especially the convoy crowd and you know, the Alberta Prosperity Project. I mean, Modri sort of claimed the fame. Well, I mean, his claim to fame is being a heart surgeon, but his, I guess you could say his claim to infamy is being an anti-vaxxer, right?
00:28:42
Speaker
And, But he's also a separatist, right? and again, i think that the convoy people are... i mean, again, i mean you have someone like Bernier who is like, no, no, no, we need to use separatism as like a weapon to fundamentally change the character of Kanda, which she believes to be what Kanda was actually intended to be.
00:29:06
Speaker
um And then um you have um you know, the Alberta Republican Party people who, um you know, aren't really focused on the COVID era grievances, but I would imagine are ah very sympathetic ah to them.
00:29:28
Speaker
Right. And, ah you know, Cam Davies himself was a UCP guy, right? Like David Parker. Right. Yeah. we'll We'll get to Davies in a second here.
00:29:39
Speaker
Okay. Well, it's, it sounds like another way to look at this, ah from what you're describing, is there being two groups where one are the people who are a little more cynical or pragmatic about the project, and then there are the true believers. So on the one hand, you have the people who think that the, or who are advocating that the purpose for this is to get leverage, to get to get leverage on the feds in order to to get certain policy things done.
00:30:07
Speaker
And then you have the true believers on the other side who say, no, the point is just to
Christian Nationalist Movement at the Rally
00:30:11
Speaker
leave. Yeah, yeah. And that would be like Modri, right? Is, no, we need to leave. Whereas, you know, I think the convoy crowd is more ambivalent about whether Alberta actually leaves or not. I mean, they all agree that there needs to be a vote in favor of separatism. It's just a question of whether we actually want to go through with it or to keep it in our back pocket.
00:30:35
Speaker
I think that would be fair to say is a division.
00:30:41
Speaker
Okay. And one, one last Venn diagram here while I'm, while I'm talking about these Venn diagrams, what what did the Venn diagram look like for you? And maybe I should define this term before you answer.
00:30:53
Speaker
ah So yes, I will define this term before I before i pitch to you to the answer, but ah what was the Venn diagram of ah people who are Christian nationalists versus not?
00:31:05
Speaker
And just to clarify that for the the listeners, so the the Christian nationalist movement, they are not just people who like countries and happen to be Christians, which would be relatively fine, ah but this is a specific political movement mainly based in North America, although certainly has its tendrils out in Europe as well, ah which advocates white supremacy through the imposition of like fundamentalist Christian values. And they are typically very anti-LGBTQ2S. They are typically very anti-minority, obviously.
00:31:48
Speaker
um They have... somewhat incoherent views on Israel. That one's kind of a coin flip. No, i I'd say their views on Israel are quite coherent in that they see it as a beacon of what they would call Judeo-Christian value.
00:32:02
Speaker
Right. like that can That is ah defending ah Western civilization from the Islamic hordes. I think that is a coherent view. It's one I find... pardon they They like the state. They maybe don't like the people, but they like the state.
00:32:19
Speaker
Okay, well, so well how does that Venn diagram look for this crowd? How many people did you think were involved in that? or or we if Christine Anderson is a Christian nationalist. She was the keynote speaker. um you know She was talking throughout about how there's this cabal.
00:32:37
Speaker
um That is, you know, imposing vaccine mandates, is supporting ah mass immigration, um is supporting, ah you know, trans people, and that they're trying to destroy are ah you know, Western liberal individualistic ah way of life But then later she adds that cabal does exist, but that is um in the basement where we are recording this podcast and not in the halls of power. Certainly not in in in Brussels.
00:33:12
Speaker
But then she goes on to say that this isn't just an attack on like individuality and liberalism. This is also attack on our Christian heritage that needs to be defended because it is through Christianity that we have ah individualism, right? That we have ah forgiveness and redemption and, ah you know, what she characterized as these liberal values, right? And, ah you know, I mean, she said some the most vile anti-trans, anti-Muslim things I've heard in my life that were, i think, things that
00:33:56
Speaker
like ideas that aren't necessarily out of place in more, I think, mainstream, you know, center right circles about how, no, I don't have anything. I don't,
00:34:08
Speaker
I'm not afraid, right? Islamophobia is a fear. No, I'm not afraid of Muslims. I despise them. And I don't, you know what I mean? Like, that's the type of stuff you can hear from like Bill Maher, Sam Harris, right? Like, and and and and in the anti-trans things about how it's like, nope, there are only two genders.
00:34:27
Speaker
ah You... um You can identify as whatever you want, but you can't make me um identify you that way. But just the the venom which we with which she expressed them um was ah quite ah frightening to me. And the reception she got, which was ah overwhelmingly positive, I mean, uproarous applause um you know ah for those lines.
00:34:56
Speaker
um And at one point she talked about the values that our parents and grandparents fought for. and it's like, lady, you are a German.
00:35:08
Speaker
You don't get to talk about the values your parents and grandparents fought for. Well, she does at that rally. I'm sure it was hot material there. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't say. Yeah. I mean, she talks about the GDR too, right? She talks about communism and how, how like state run daycare is, is, is communist because they're, they're taking children from their mothers and forcing their mothers to work and then brainwashing their children. and Forcing those poor children to eat apple slices and some log at nap time.
00:35:42
Speaker
really wild stuff um and uh again i mean these are the this is the crowd that smith is trying to appeal to while also trying to hold on to like more mainstream audience right yeah and i think that this gets to the point where i'm not sure if you and i have a disagreement but uh we've had a lot of conversations about this over the the past couple of weeks about the the general question of like How seriously do you take these guys? How legitimate do you say their movement is?
00:36:13
Speaker
ah How worrying is their movement, even if it isn't legitimate? Questions like, is the separatist movement actually a specific movement of its own? Or is it ah just a tactic? that' like Are these people just conservatives and this is a tactic that they're using?
00:36:31
Speaker
Why don't we get into these these kind of questions? Because so we're kind of into it now. What do you think about this stuff? Yeah. So, I mean, you wrote a newsletter, you know, like a month ago that I edited and I didn't quite agree with it, but you know, I thought it was, ah certainly,
00:36:50
Speaker
ah position that has an internal logic and was, you know, well thought out. And yeah, we, we, yeah ah contrary to our enemies, say we on the left, uh, have disagreements. We, uh,
00:37:08
Speaker
ah And, ah you know, express them freely and and work through them. um But ah yeah yeah, you were basically saying that the the separatist ah movement is is not what we should be focusing on. That it's really a smokescreen for this really more nefarious Christian nationalist agenda.
00:37:27
Speaker
And you talked about like a guy like David Parker, who clearly does have Christian nationalist views and is also a separatist. And that that is sort of – separatism is almost a distraction, right? That we shouldn't – Or it's a a tactic, you know.
00:37:45
Speaker
i think a lot of these people believe in their hearts what Bernier was expressing on this stage, that if they put this act on hard enough that they will be able to get concessions out of it. Right, but but a lot of them don't. And so what what I think is that that the separatists, like Alberta separatism is a thing.
00:38:05
Speaker
I'd like that weren't a thing. um you know But I do think it is. i mean, it is being taken seriously by people in power, not as seriously as the yo separatist people would like, but certainly they're being catered to more than i think either of us would like.
00:38:25
Speaker
um But the issue um I have is that if separatism is the vehicle by which these sort of Christo-fascists want to impose their agenda, then I don't think it's helpful to downplay the threat of separatism or to to not talk about it and just focus on Christian nationalism because
00:39:01
Speaker
your average person, when they see the separatist movement, they're not thinking about ah necessarily about trans people, right?
00:39:11
Speaker
Or um you know ah lack of prayer in schools or public education. right They're thinking about um the the the talking points that sort of the leaders of this movement have brought to the forefront, right which is talk about equalization, talking about um oil and gas, nevermind that oil and gas production is a record high now.
00:39:42
Speaker
Right. Um, they're, uh, they're thinking of those things. Right. And so I think that if, uh, we want to engage in this conversation, we do have to critique the separatist movement while also, um,
00:40:01
Speaker
drawing attention to the sort of ah maybe even darker forces that are bubbling under the surface. But I don't think it's helpful and i like from just from a communications perspective of of of just talking about Christian ah nationalism like that.
00:40:22
Speaker
and And I think additionally, If you look at Brexit, right you look at other separatist movements, but Brexit in particular stands out, um particularly listening to someone like Christine Anderson speaking, who is i mean right she's a member of the European Parliament.
Comparisons with Brexit and Political Factions
00:40:44
Speaker
She was elected explicitly to ah yeah take the fight to Brussels, right like AFD is against the EU, right which is
00:40:54
Speaker
um
00:40:56
Speaker
You know, it wasn't taken seriously at first, right? David Cameron, you know, sort of like a Jason Kenney-like figure, right? Like mainstream conservative that was like, okay, these people, I need these people to vote for me.
00:41:09
Speaker
So yeah, let's do it. We'll have a referendum. And ah yeah, and you know obviously thought there's no way it would pass. It's such a ridiculous idea. um But ah we'll do it. let's Let's do a referendum. And I don't think it wasn't was taken seriously.
00:41:27
Speaker
And it um allowed people like Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, to just lie incessantly about ah what ah Brexit could actually achieve.
00:41:40
Speaker
and just wasn't Just like the rhetoric we're hearing from the separatists now about a separate Alberta within Canada of somehow doing separation by keeping all the perks.
00:41:51
Speaker
Like the pension plan. Yeah. ah Right? That, oh, no, no, no, we're going to get, our pensions are going to be better if we have our own pension plan, which is not that we're entitled to actually more than half of CPP assets, right?
00:42:07
Speaker
Total fiction. No, that's because we work harder, Jeremy. The average Albertan works eight times harder than the average Canadian. Yeah, which is why Albertans are more wealthier, because we know that if you work hard enough, you will be rich. That's how works. Yeah, and it's why God put the oil here, because he knew that we were going to work so hard.
00:42:25
Speaker
Right. um But, i mean, these people are mobilizing, they're serious, and we need to take them seriously. Right.
00:42:39
Speaker
Now, that doesn't mean we accept everything at face value of what their motivations are, which is, I think, where we agree. um But we also need to keep our eye on what is ah driving the public conversation. Yes, critique it.
00:42:58
Speaker
But also, we do need to engage with that, I think. And and I think that is um where we disagree. That that that that we do whether we like it or not, have to engage um with um this separatist a monster that's been unleashed.
00:43:20
Speaker
I take your point that the movement itself, officials and this tactic itself, may be something that we we should be concerned about. But I do have to push back a little when it comes to the question of these specific politicians being being serious people or being not clownish.
00:43:41
Speaker
So the main character of this event seems to have been Cameron Davies, the leader of the Alberta Republican Party, the relatively newly minted Alberta Republican Party.
00:43:52
Speaker
As you mentioned before, or not the first guys to separatism show. ah They recently had a pretty good showing in Old Stidsbury Three Hills. um They came out pretty close to where the NDP came out.
00:44:06
Speaker
and So, I mean, they they weren't anywhere near winning the seat, but perhaps they are applying enough pressure there to make the UCP worried about them, which which may be the point.
00:44:18
Speaker
But, okay, so Cameron Davies, if people don't remember this guy's story... There was a lot written about this guy on one website in particular, the Elections Alberta Administrative Penalties Registry.
00:44:34
Speaker
So Cameron Davies, if you are thinking of this guy as some kind of outsider, someone from maybe the the convoy movement, or or this fringe figure from the Christian nationalist movement who's like,
00:44:50
Speaker
trying to do a takeover or something like that, I think you're misunderstanding this guy because in 2019, Cameron Davies was so much of a UCP inner circle loyalist guy that but he was straight up a patsy. They they made a a a fool out of this guy, a clown out of this guy.
00:45:08
Speaker
So Cameron Davies was the the campaign manager for Jeff Calloway, one of the UCP leadership contestants. And it was revealed during that race that Jeff Calloway's purpose in that race was as a quote unquote kamikaze candidate.
00:45:26
Speaker
That's what you'll see all of the headlines about now if you go back and read those stories. That he was running basically as a fake in that race in order to siphon off far right votes and eventually either give them to Jason Kenney or at least make sure they weren't used against Jason Kenney.
00:45:45
Speaker
um A prominent business person, i Robin Lohr, according to the elections, Alberta furnished Cameron Davies, Jeff Calloway's campaign manager, the campaign manager for Jason Kenney's kamikaze candidate, ah with $60,000, which Davies then went around ah basically getting other people to put their names to.
00:46:12
Speaker
to then illegally donate to the Calloway leadership contest because this Robin Lohr guy obviously couldn't just give 60 grand straight to the Davies campaign. That would go way past campaign limits.
00:46:26
Speaker
And there are a bunch of penalties here on the administrative side. It looks like a Davies eventually got hit with $15,000 for obstructing an investigation. And then I see over $10,000 in fines here for the the individual.
00:46:44
Speaker
um i mean, it's corruption, campaign corruption. it So like this is a guy who, when the Kenney campaign came asking, i mean, geez, I don't know how specific I should be about this since the guy could get litigious, this stuff is so serious. But at someone's prompting,
00:47:04
Speaker
did a bunch of dirt that benefited the Jason Kenney campaign, and then got caught or got left with the bag. like he He ate shit. Jason Kenney walked away from this smelling kind of clean.
00:47:17
Speaker
um And Davies, the political operative, had to eat over $20,000 in fines and all of the reputational damage for that. like this is some I mean, this is very pathetic.
00:47:29
Speaker
This is very pathetic stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is it is kind of comical. um And I believe he cited his experience with that as as a reason he became disillusioned with. Oh, that that radicalized him. Running $60,000 in illegal campaign contributions. That radicalized him. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:50
Speaker
Yeah, and um you know I guess in independent Alberta, you know straw donors will be permitted. um but When I look at Davies, I still see UCP insider.
00:48:05
Speaker
I mean, i I don't think I have that long of a memory, but I still remember 2019. And it's hard for me not to see all of the stuff that they're doing right now, that that Davies is doing right now, as more kamikaze candidate type stuff, smokestream smokescreen type stuff, running a tactic, being deceptive about what your actual purpose or intentions are?
00:48:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um you know It's interesting because Davies, he seemed a bit hapless there, right? I mean, you had Dennis Modry of the Prosperity Project saying, ah oh we need we we need to unilaterally separate, get outside recognition and be like Kosovo.
00:48:57
Speaker
And then you have Davies being like, oh, well, ah you know we want ah to have a coalition government that... ah that ah you know, take separatism, ah seriously.
00:49:11
Speaker
And, uh, you know, there needs to be a referendum, but also should we really have to have a referendum? And, uh, you know, he sort of played off the, the Republican showing in old, uh, Didsbury three Hills as this is just the starting point, right? We're, we're going to take off from here. Um, we're, um,
00:49:34
Speaker
you know going to be a force to be reckoned with. It was very face-saving, it came off as. But again, um i would emphasize that I think one reason the separatist party did ah worse than expected in the by-election was because the UCP is saying, yeah, we can have a referendum on separation. like like bring it Bring it forward. We're making it easier for you to bring it forward. And so I think a lot of the more maybe soft separatists who are in would vote yes,
00:50:07
Speaker
by you know use it as leverage. We're just like, okay, let's just vote UCP. ah So we have a voice. It is worth noting that a a version of that writing, Olds Didsbury, ah back in the 80s, did elect ah a separatist in 1982, I believe, ah Gordon Kessler with the Western Canada Concept Party.
00:50:32
Speaker
in a by-election. he was in m MLA for like a year. um So, you know, again... the specter of separatism still haunts old Stidsbury. Yeah, and this isn't a new thing, right? Like, essentially, I mean, you know, i mean I'm actually reading a collection of essays on Alberta separatism from the 80s, which is really interesting to to view the parallels between then and now. Yeah.
00:51:00
Speaker
But, I mean, from the out outset, I mean, Western Canadian provinces were aggrieved that, ah you know, the federal, the crown had control over their natural resources until, ah you know, well after they became provinces, you know. And so there's always been that sort of chip on their shoulder ah based on this, you know,
00:51:24
Speaker
extractivist political economy um that has been especially um heightened in Alberta, where the you know bulk of Canada's natural resources are, um that really... um it came to a heads in 1982 with the national energy program, right.
00:51:48
Speaker
With Trudeau the first, um, which I do have to wonder when we look back at this stuff at, um, at those sources from the eighties, I wonder how much is being obscured from us now, looking back at that. Like, i wonder if back then there, there were these same Christian nationalist, um,
00:52:13
Speaker
movements under the surface that were putting something else up, presenting a different argument than than their actual position. you know I wonder how much now we we miss because we only get surface level stuff when we look that far back.
Historical Parallels in Alberta's Separatism
00:52:33
Speaker
Well, think you would have had the remnants of like social credit, which I think in many ways...
00:52:40
Speaker
would be what we would characterize as Christian nationalists. Certainly, ah you know, William Aberhart's Bible Bill. Shout out to Bible Bill. Yeah. And Ernest Manning sort of made social credit more into like a yeah conservative, ah you know, ah free market oriented, but also very conservative.
00:53:08
Speaker
socially, uh, uh, party, you know, that would be later the type of thing that you characterize as neoliberal and neoconservative.
00:53:19
Speaker
Um, but I would imagine remnants of like the old social credit, uh, played a role in, uh, the separatist movement, um, in the eighties.
00:53:31
Speaker
Um, uh, so, um, yeah you know, you, you certainly have that. And I mean, Gordon Kessler, I, I mean, the Western Canada concept party was, um, extremely right wing.
00:53:46
Speaker
Right. Um, I, I mean, it's, it's sort of membership, uh, included, ah guys ah like, uh, you know Doug Christie, for instance,
00:54:01
Speaker
um who ah was ah who who founded the party and who was ah you know in incredibly far-right and represented um you know Nazis in court, right um which, I mean...
00:54:20
Speaker
yeah you know, everyone's entitled to a good defense, you know, and you shouldn't necessarily draw inferences about a lawyer based on a client that they have. But this was a guy who made a habit of defending um Nazis, including James Keegstra, right? This is a guy was Jim Keegstra's lawyer who was teaching his students that the Holocaust didn't happen, right? And so...
00:54:45
Speaker
um there has ah So even in the 80s, there was this extreme right. Yeah, what I think of guys, the secondist movement I don't even think the term separatist. I think the term sovereignist. And specifically, these guys, they don't want sovereignty for Alberta.
00:55:10
Speaker
They want to be sovereigns. of Alberta. They want sovereignty over us. They want sovereignty over you. They want sovereignty over me. They want sovereignty over the people in the cities, in the blue hairs on the campuses, and all of the the people that they that they dislike and and want to flatten.
00:55:31
Speaker
And that's what these people really want. They want power and control over the province of Alberta in order to implement this this Christian nationalist agenda. So it's a it is It is kind of fraught. you know You have, on the one hand, many figures who are absolutely clownish, really, really ignorant, unintelligent, silly people. You have ah pathetic people like Cameron Davies, these these minion, patsy-type figures.
00:56:05
Speaker
But as you say, i mean um all of this stuff being pathetic, all this stuff being nonsense, it didn't stave...
00:56:14
Speaker
It didn't save the Britons from Brexit and it didn't stop. It it didn't really save Kenny either. So
00:56:24
Speaker
one last question before we wrap up. How do you think the the situation is going to change here? The balance of power is going to change here if the UCP get a fringe, a breakaway group pulling in the other direction?
00:56:39
Speaker
Because the big news this week was Peter Guthrie announcing that he wants to revive the progressive conservative brand and split off from the UCP in the other direction.
Political Landscape and NDP's Challenges
00:56:50
Speaker
How do you think that's going to impact the the sovereignists?
00:56:54
Speaker
ah Not much. I mean, I don't i don't foresee them... ah having um much success. I mean, maybe in their own ridings, you know, Guthrie and Sinclair will win as as PCs.
00:57:16
Speaker
um i know Danielle Smith said she wants to stop them from using the, ah ah you know, the the PC brand. So maybe they should change their name to, you know, President's Choice Party or...
00:57:33
Speaker
um But they don't need to win their seats to have leverage in the same way that the separatists don't. or the sovereignists don't need to win seats to have leverage, right? They just need to win enough of the vote share to be scary enough to be a problem.
00:57:49
Speaker
Yeah. But I mean, the thing is, I don't think like your average, like say UCP voter in Calgary. uh, I, I, don't think they really care.
00:58:02
Speaker
Um, I mean, i like, I the separatist stuff. If they get their tax cut from Danielle Smith, um you know, the last election show, they'll put up with a lot of ah craziness.
00:58:17
Speaker
um But that's their primary motivation. Even if even if they don't get their tax, even if they just get the promise of a tax cut that they never actually. Right. Right. um Exactly. So I don't i don't know who the the PCs, I mean, target audiences. I mean, they talk about, oh, we're so polarized.
00:58:36
Speaker
We've got a left-wing party and right-wing party and we need to bring back the middle. um Well, first of all, the NDP is, is particularly under Nenshi is, I mean, a centrist party ma center left on a good day, but the idea that the Alberta NDP is, you know, in any way, a, uh, uh, in any capacity of socialist parties, i I mean, both you and I know is laughable.
00:59:03
Speaker
Um, and that's not to, uh, comment on, you know, whether um they would be better than the UCP government for, because of course they would be. And Rachel Notley was.
00:59:19
Speaker
Yeah. We could go to the hospital. yeah I mean, Rachel Notley was, you know, a better premier than certainly the people who came after her. And we wish well about the new Democrats, but at least the emergency rooms ran on time.
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah. But, yeah, Yeah, so I don't know who it's for. I mean, and even then, we had the Alberta Party, and they had Stephen Mandel as their leader, and they did they they ate complete shit. And Stephen Mandel, I mean, was a mayor of Edmonton and was not an unpopular mayor, despite um my dislike of his his politics. Yeah.
00:59:57
Speaker
um you know, and they couldn't get anything with him. And then they had Barry Morishida who, uh, you know, is the mayor of Brooks, you know, nice guy. um um, you know, but I would say so right of center, but you know, pragmatic and I mean, they didn't get anywhere. So, I mean, it seems like Sinclair and, um, and Guthrie are really banking on like this, like nostalgia for a party that was like,
01:00:30
Speaker
totally rejected ah by voters for being out of touch and entitled. And um I think that is that there isn't a large market for that, that, um you know, it sounds like those two from your estimate are not going to have a very,
01:00:51
Speaker
productive time. Too bad for them. i hope that we see more in that vein, though i think this province could do with more democracy. And personally, i think we should have a different United Conservative Party in every ride.
01:01:09
Speaker
Well, you know, i mean, Danielle Smith likes to talk about, uh, grassroots, uh, democracy. So yeah, why not? Different platform for every writing. I mean, we joke, but there is, um and I think one, uh, weakness of the NDPs in the last election and,
01:01:26
Speaker
ah probably the one in 2019 too, was how rigid, uh, the control was from Edmonton. um and that they sort of wrote off most rural ridings, know, except for Banff, Canaanaskis, and Lethbridge West, and, uh, you know, uh, Sherwood Park, Strathcona, where they won.
01:01:47
Speaker
and, As just being, no, no, no, one size fits all. Like, like like this is about Rachel versus Danielle, right? And weren't listening to local concerns. So I do think that there is room for more ah flexibility and more, not you know, running a different election in every riding, um, running on different platform in every riding, but emphasizing different things and developing policy that will appeal to different, uh, demographics.
01:02:17
Speaker
I mean, you're not going to win every riding and Danielle Smith, you know, openly admitted that to Rick Bell. She's like, look, I don't care to win in Edmonton. I don't even care to win most of Calgary just need rural. And, uh, you know,
01:02:30
Speaker
um the Calgary suburbs and, we've got a majority government. So, um, you know, I, again, i don't know who this, uh, revitalized PC parties for, but I, I, I, I don't think that it will have any bearing, um, on the next election because I think Danielle Smith, uh, has,
01:03:00
Speaker
some degree of distance from the separatists, right? They want her to do more harder. You know, she's using referendum as this, you know, easy way to just be like, let the people decide.
01:03:10
Speaker
Right. And then she can wipe her hands clean from that. Um, or embrace it further if it goes her way. Um, and, um, you know, I think that'll be enough for people who just want to get their taxes cut and to build more highways um and to extract more fossil fuels, right? ah you know um Because you know the separatists, by and large, want those things too.
01:03:38
Speaker
they just it's yeah It's a question of the need. I think ultimately why i I characterize these guys as just more of the conservative movement, because they're all asking for the same things.
01:03:50
Speaker
It's mostly just a difference in tactics. Yeah, i mean, different configurations. I mean, you've got... you know a corporate lawyer in in South Calgary ah it's probably not going to be a Christian nationalist, right? He's probably not um into all the culture war ah stuff, but the question is what they're willing to tolerate.
01:04:16
Speaker
um And again, and you know, you have the NDP, you know, under Notley, they were, you know, having guys like Thomas Lukasik and other more, ah you know, centrist PCs sort of lend their votes to them. And I think Nenshi is ah ah trying to bring them into the party fold.
01:04:36
Speaker
um And um so, ah you know, again, i think that former PC voters, you know, they are going to mostly vote UCP. Some will vote NDP and, you know, a few will vote for, ah Sinclair and Guthrie's party. But, um, I don't think it's going to be, uh, enough to, uh,
01:05:04
Speaker
really makes so much of a difference. I mean, again, in some Calgary ridings, that may benefit the NDP for sure, ah where it's close. you know Places like Calgary Bow, where Demetrius Nicolaitis won by a few hundred votes against a very good and NDP candidate, Drew Farrell.
01:05:24
Speaker
in In rural Alberta, though, which is... in Yeah, I mean, in rural, where St. Clair...
01:05:32
Speaker
is an MLA, right? Like Slave Lake. I mean, i don't think it'll... Yeah, they they're not going to move the needle much there. That that that seems pretty rigid territory. You know what I mean?
01:05:44
Speaker
but um yeah, I mean, it could be good for the NDP. It could it could ah split the vote. um But i don't I don't think Guthrie or Sinclair will win their seats. I would be shocked if they did. But again, Alberta politics, very...
01:06:00
Speaker
ah is very erratic at the best of times and unpredictable. So ah we'll see what happens. But um i think that we can bank on the conversation ah shifting rightward as the NDP moves along with it. you know I mean, if they want to make this Election just about separatism, about, ah you know, um
01:06:37
Speaker
social conservatism. ah that it It might be ah just a microcosm of the last federal election, right? the The nationalism just papers over everything. And and in that context, yeah, you you see a shift to the right.
01:06:51
Speaker
as everyone stops talking about social issues, social programs. Yeah, I mean, the NDP needs a vision, and they need to embrace, you know, prairie populism, but of a, ah you know,
01:07:06
Speaker
left-leaning of a non-demonic variety. And otherwise you're seeing what you have in the States where the Democrats are the party of everything is awesome. And the Republicans are like, uh, no, things are fundamentally broken and they're broken because of all these immigrants that we need to, uh, send to concentration camps. You know what I mean? um and, um,
01:07:31
Speaker
um So far, I mean, you know, lots of people like David Klayman-Haga, Graham Thompson have pointed out that the and NDP has been very overwhelming. They've been largely MIA. I mean, now Nanshi has a seat.
01:07:44
Speaker
So we'll see how he performs in parliament. But that also doesn't mean a lot. is If parliamentary performance moved people's votes, I mean, we probably would have had Tom Mulcair as prime minister. Yeah.
01:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. ah To some degree, I think the NDP comms team there is a little locked in the earlier years. They're still in the twenty eighteens the 2019s, when you could clip legislature stuff and get good purchase on Facebook or Twitter with those videos. But um the platforms have changed to become really hostile to that. And I, yeah, i don't I don't know how valuable the the legislature clips are. but I think we should probably wrap up.
01:08:30
Speaker
um We don't know. We'll see, i guess, is is where we're at. And on that happy note, yeah I guess let's tie up this conversation.
01:08:41
Speaker
ah Jeremy, you got anything on The Orchard? Do you want to pitch? ah No, just the piece we've been talking about. um It was also republished in the tae ah which is very cool. I'm always honored when they see a piece I wrote independently and want to publish it, you know clean it up a little, um as they did, and publish it for a much larger audience.
01:09:08
Speaker
um But ah other than that, no, I'm i'm taking... ah um
01:09:16
Speaker
I don't think I'll have anything on new on the Orchard ah until um after this episode airs. um I've been getting a lot of traffic from this one piece, so... um Yeah. and what you get when they You're the only media who shows up to the event, right?
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. um you know And ah I understand why there's reticence to cover these things. Because if you're doing like old school it's hard to...
01:09:51
Speaker
you know reporting you know it's hard ah to justify, you know, just giving these people a microphone and writing what they say neutrally. um of course there are ways around that, know, fact checking the things they tell you, but, um, you know, I, I, I do think, uh, the ability to go and write like a personal sort of observation critique, um, is, is, is, uh, benefit.
01:10:25
Speaker
Well, folks, you can get more of that on Jeremy's blog, The Orchard, and of course, through us at theprogressreport.ca. We publish Jeremy as well, of course, since he is a staff writer here.
01:10:38
Speaker
ah We're going to wrap up for today. I hope that this conversation was interesting. If you would like to pitch in to support the report, we do collect donations at theprogressreport.ca slash patrons.
01:10:52
Speaker
Join us again soon as we will have another episode for you next week. Jeremy, thanks for joining me again. Yeah, always a pleasure. And I'll see you soon.