Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 230 - How Specialization Leads to Business Success
487 Plays4 months ago
Today I'm chatting with equine photographer, Kirstie Jones.
We're diving into the benefits of choosing a niche and creating a profitable and sustainable business.
As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check ’em out at https://daveyandkrista.com/specialization-business-success-niche-btb-230/. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Passion in Work
00:00:00
Speaker
Be extremely passionate, be narrow-focused, work with the people you want to work with. You're listening to The Brands That Book Show, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs who want practical tips and strategies to build engaging brands and craft high-converting websites. We're your hosts, Davey and Krista, co-founders of a brand and website design agency specializing in visual brand design and show it websites. You're listening to The Brands That Book Show.
00:00:30
Speaker
Today I'm chatting with equine photographer Kirsty Jones. Yes, I know it's a bit confusing with Krista Jones. We're diving into the benefits of choosing a niche as well as creating a business that is profitable and sustainable from the start.
Meet Kirsty Jones: The Equine Photographer
00:00:42
Speaker
Kirsty is an award-winning equine photographer located in Texas with a passion for capturing the immeasurable bonds between a girl and her horse. As a lifetime horse enthusiast herself, she's experienced the first-hand bond between a horse and a girl. She strives to capture that special relationship for each and every client. In 2015, she began offering mentoring services to other photographers and small business owners. Her goal is simple, to help others establish a profitable, sustainable business that becomes the career of their dreams.
00:01:11
Speaker
I really enjoy Percy's perspective on business as well as this conversation. She offers a differing opinion about starting a business from a few other recent podcast guests. And I think that this contrast highlights one of the most beautiful aspects of small business, that at the end of the day, you get to be the one who decides how to do this business and you get to do things your own way.
Kirsty's Photography Journey and Passion for Horses
00:01:33
Speaker
So sit back and on to the episode. Welcome to the Brands at Book Podcast. I'm really excited to be chatting with you. And coincidentally enough, our names are super similar. So I will probably mess up my name or your name in this call, Kirsty and Krista Jones. So welcome to the podcast. I would love to lead with your story. So you're a photographer, but tell me how long you've been a photographer. You are an equine. Did I say that right? Equine photographer.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah. Some people say equine. Some people say equine. You can pronounce it anyway. Yes. Yes. I'm an equine photographer. My name is Kirsty Jones and I live just north of Dallas, Texas. I have been an equine photographer. Let's see. I picked up a camera in 2011. I started my business in 2013 and I went full-time in 2017. Okay. But I started equine from day one. I grew up riding horses my entire life and horses were the only thing that mattered to me. So as soon as I picked up a camera, I went to go start practicing on the horses that were in my front pasture. And then out before I knew it, I was asking my friends to kind of model for me with their horses okay and everything kind of grew from there. but
00:02:45
Speaker
courses were the only thing that I really loved, really cared about, was immediately just kind of gravitated and pulled to from the beginning. Yes. That's awesome. I'm impressed that like you didn't try other ventures of photography because I feel like it's so frequent for people to be getting started in their field and they're like, I'm going to try all of the things. Did you ever try other avenues or did you know right from the start you wanted to do equine photography? so ah I personally did not try other things, but I worked for a photographer who did a lot of weddings and some newborns, a lot of family shoots. So I was, it was probably my last year at TCU. I went to college at TCU. I was in Fort Worth, Texas. I was working for Arden Peruca photography, who had a very established studio. And I was doing a lot of general tasks for her.
00:03:41
Speaker
but she would also bring me along to some of the shoots. And so I got to see some senior sessions and some family sessions. I got to edit some newborn sessions and I would go to weddings as just an assistant or a third shooter. Later, I was second shooting a couple of weddings. It was enough to know I had zero heart and interest. yeah It was great exposure to those different like genres of photography for me to say, that's not for me.
00:04:15
Speaker
Well, that's awesome. It's cool that you got to work for somebody else and try other avenues of photography. Do you feel like because you work within a very specific niche, I feel like when we talk about niche on this podcast or like in examples, we often use your type of photography because it's just like so unique. And I think it's just a really great example of like, how much specialization you can do within your field and have success in that. Do you feel like it was better to start with a narrow focus once you actually started your business or do you appreciate that you tried other avenues as well? And is that something you'd recommend for other people?
Finding Your Niche and Passion in Photography
00:04:50
Speaker
For me personally, I think it was very clear where my heart was and where my interest was. So ah zeroing in on a focus from the beginning was the best situation for me.
00:05:04
Speaker
My advice to other people is try all the things. If if you don't have a really strong magnetic pull to one direction, try more things. It is excellent if you can do it in an assisting capacity and not have all of the responsibility fall on you. But if you're interested in commercial photography, see if you can assist on set. If you're interested in wedding photography, see if you can be an assistant or a third shooter. in some really low pressure scenarios where you can absorb a lot of what's going on, because I think it's just as important to understand what you don't want to do as it is what you do want to do. And I think that the more exposure that you get to these different things, it's going to be clear at the end of the day,
00:05:50
Speaker
What drains your energy? When did you come home exhausted from and what gives you energy? What did you go do and work and you came home on a high on a buzz on cloud nine? Can't wait to upload the pictures. There's two really different but in my experience, right? He can even come down to the clients not just the genre of photography but the people that you're working with or the people who are on set or the clients that you've booked and There can be an energy that is very, very draining and you come home exhausted and you have that hangover and you say, I just need to rest. I can't touch my camera. You know, I need those photos to marinate for a little bit before I go through them. And I think that, you know, on the opposite spectrum, I personally have experienced
00:06:35
Speaker
being on set where it is so life giving and life breathing and you come home with more energy than you left with, even if it was a long day of work and it's thrilling and exciting. And so if you don't have an immediate idea of what that is, for me, I had an immediate idea of what that was. I became extremely passionate about specifically the storytelling between a relationship of the owner and the horse. So so I zeroed in on something very niche that I felt wasn't currently in the market at that time in 2013, I wholeheartedly dove into a piece of the market that I didn't feel was being served. right and If you have that, then yes, my recommendation is dive in. go Go as completely targeted as you want to, but if you don't feel some overwhelming draw to something specific
00:07:29
Speaker
that you love, then by all means try everything, experience everything, and experience it several times. Because sometimes your first experience, maybe it was just the client that was wrong, but the genre is right. So experience it a few times to kind of kind of understand your giftings, your skill sets, and where you're going to succeed. Yeah, I was a wedding photographer and I feel like when I first started shooting, I was second shooting for other photographers. And sometimes their clients were not my ideal clients. And I feel like if I had only ever shot for that person, I probably wouldn't have gone that direction because I just wouldn't have enjoyed the day. Your sample size was too small.
00:08:08
Speaker
um But in getting to like other types of clients, it's like, oh yeah, it was just those people were like not a good fit for me, but they're other people who are. So I think that's such great advice. How did you decide to be an equine photographer if that wasn't something that was really prominent at the time? Did you just, because of the connections that you had in the horse community, did you just decide, I'm gonna do this? Or was there like any inklings of that becoming a photography genre? I'd love to know more about like how you made that niche.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I, like I said, I grew up riding my whole life. I competed a lot. I was from Oregon and so I was competing in the Pacific Northwest a lot. I also would compete on a national level and was coming down to Oklahoma for big shows and whatnot. So I had to sell my show horses when I went off to college. I rode for TSU's women's equestria team. And the deal with my parents was I had to sell my show horses when I went off to college and then I got to ride for the team. So I was in this horseless horse girl era where I had a horse who was the love of my life. We you know we call them our like equine soulmates. that
00:09:23
Speaker
you bond with certain horses more than others. And so one of my show horses growing up, he was a huge part of me. I bonded with him significantly more than my other horses. So he was kind of, we also called heart horse. So soulmate, heart horse, whatever you want to call it, he meant a lot to me. And he couldn't come down to Texas with me. We sold him when I was in Oregon, I came down to Texas. And I also, my husband and I, we dated all through high school and I left him
Inspiration and Connection with Clients
00:09:53
Speaker
We kept dating, but he was going to college in Oregon. So he stayed in college in Oregon. I was down here. And we had done this photo shoot together before we left, before we were about to have this long distance relationship. And I was looking at these photos and I was like, you know, have all these photos of this guy who means a lot to me. And I love their romantic. I love that. But the only photos that I have of this horse who also
00:10:13
Speaker
meant a lot to me. The only photos I have of him were like the horse show proofs of us competing together and I just felt like there was so much more in our relationship than the competition setting. So that really started it for me. And then in college, I was planning my own wedding. I had the Pinterest boards and was on all of the wedding photography blogs. and grew a huge heart towards film photography and all the mega film photographers at the time who were very popular in like 2011 to 2013. I remember those days. Uh-huh, back in the day. So I'm planning my own wedding. I'm going, you know, this this style of film photography, ah the pastel colors, the backlit golden hour, very romantic, ethereal, soft tones. And in my head, I just kept inserting every groom I saw as a horse. I could do this style, but kick out the man, and it would be a girl and her horse. And I think it just all really came from that horse that I was so deeply missing, and I really wished I had an image of him and I that depicted the actual relationship that we had. Not just smiling at the camera, or some of the candids I would take at the barn of him, or some of the competition photos. I really was longing for
00:11:35
Speaker
this portraiture that showed our relationship and had more of a compelling story to it. So I kind of was my own client avatar profile of I think there are more people like me who exist who would like some type of photography with their horse where it shows the relationship that they have with them outside of just competing in the in the horse show arena. And so, yeah, that's kind of how it was born. I started with a digital camera. I worked for that other photographer while I was in college. I quickly was like, you know what? I can't get the look I want with digital. I'm going to have to buy a contact, 645. That will move to a house of Vlad H2. It's been a couple of years shooting exclusively film. Got the aesthetic that I wanted, but logistically shooting horses with him. Oh, I can't even imagine.
00:12:29
Speaker
My lab bills were outrageous just because you need to fire that shutter so much. And so yeah, I was hybrid for a little bit and then I quickly moved to digital show only. Okay.
00:12:43
Speaker
That makes sense. So we shot with the context too, and like family portrait sessions, we realized how challenging that was. Oh, the manual focus. You know, I'm sitting over here trying to shoot F2, manual focus. The horse is looking every direction, moving around, walking around. They move so fast. Just like small children move so fast. Yeah. I think quickly became like, oh man, when you have two adults who can stay still and follow direction, it's much easier in the manual focus film situation. So how did you start to get your first few clients? Like when you decided, okay, I'm shooting for this other photographer. I am interested in doing this type of photography. How did you reach out and start to build those relationships and get people to pay you to do it?
00:13:30
Speaker
It started with my own contacts. I mean, I just expressed an interest. I was still in college when I bought my first camera. I just was really trying to practice with my camera. And so I went to my teammates and I took pictures of them with the school horses. And when I was at home on breaks, I would reach out to my other friends and and ask to take pictures with their horses. and so I was kind of gaining a little portfolio of work that was exactly what I wanted to do and what I wanted to introduce to the market. Now, there were other people doing this at the same time that I was unaware of, so I'm not saying I discovered this or created it by any means.
00:14:09
Speaker
I learned about other photographers doing exactly what I wanted to do after I'd started doing it. So I didn't invent a wheel. I just wasn't aware of them in the dreaming stages when I was at school and I studied finance. So when I was in all the business classes, kind of sketching out a business plan and dreaming what I wanted to do, okay it kind of came from scratch in that regard. But as I actually entered the market, I understood there was a lot more to this than just little old me. so But the beginning of it really was you know me reaching out to my immediate contacts, people that I knew, great friends that I had. I'm posting those pictures on social media and then gaining that exposure to their friend groups. And then it very organically and pretty quickly grew from there.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Were you afraid to narrow your focus at all? like you Were you afraid that it would be too niche and you wouldn't be able to make it as a photographer because you were so narrow or were you just so in love with it and so excited about it that it didn't really matter to you?
00:15:14
Speaker
I was studying finance and I had a lot of internships in college as well. so you know I had an interest in in private equity and I worked with a few wealth management groups. and After college, right when I was starting to build the photography business, it was on the side. I always wanted it to be on the side. and I got you know my dream job in investor relations for an asset management firm in downtown Dallas. so I was working a lot of hours in finance at what I felt was my dream job and I just didn't have a horse. So I wanted to stay so incredibly narrow that A, if you booked me, I was going to get paid overtime and you would be paying me more than my finance job.
00:15:57
Speaker
because
Balancing Careers and Specializing in Business
00:15:58
Speaker
I'm already working a lot of hours. Now you're taking my nights and weekends from me. um But B, I wanted us to fit so well that I'm i'm in a horseless state and I love horses so much. I live vicariously through some of my clients type of thing. like yeah At this point, this is kind of my only access to pet a horse's nose. Now that I'm not on the equestrian team anymore, and I'm out in the real world, I'm not in college. You know, this is my only opportunity to pet a horse, ride a horse, talk with other people about horses. So I wasn't afraid to be very narrow in my focus because it was paying me well and it was,
00:16:42
Speaker
not only paying me monetarily, but kind of like my heart, you know what I mean? Like I was gaining a lot personally by you know going and doing these shoots and having these experiences with people. I didn't enter this thinking, this has to sustain me. I need to make X amount of dollars. I need X amount of clients per year. That's not how I started the business. And so being narrow never worried me or concerned me. Now what? Quickly. So i'm I'm just saying, and I hope that makes sense. Like that wasn't my concern at the beginning. Okay. I had very limited time. I could take very limited clients, you know, two to four shoots a month. And I considered myself fully booked. That grew so fast and became so unsustainable. That's when I hit the tipping point and said, I'm basically have two full time jobs right now. I have to choose between the two.
00:17:40
Speaker
because they can't run parallel to each other, ah it's unsustainable. And so that's when I had to choose which one and and the photography business had so much growing momentum at that point, it always felt like I could come back to the finance and I was like, hey, let's see how this goes. If it doesn't work out like I think it will, I'll be right back. But It's growing at such a great pace. It's so exciting. I want to see where it can take me. And so that happened by 2015 2016. I definitely could have taken it full time. The beginning of 2017 is when I did take it full time. And yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
That's such like an interesting story because I feel like so many people are, they start the opposite. They're like, I'm going to try all of the things and then this is what I really love and this is what I want to shoot more of. But like you just knew, even though you had shot for another photographer, you knew really early on that you just wanted to do this. So I think that's amazing that you had that other job as a backup. I also think it's amazing how quickly it grew. I'm sure Like in part just because people could, I meant like when you niche down it's easy for people to understand exactly what your expertise is, what sets you apart from like the senior portrait photographers. Like you know how to probably calm a horse down in a way that a regular photographer probably would not know how to do. Or like there's just so many things that you probably knew and that you could use that to specialize.
00:19:08
Speaker
Do you feel like you are also able to charge more right away, not only because your time was more precious and like you already had the other job, but also because you were so specialty? I do. I think I was one of very, very few people in the market who could offer what I was trying to offer. And so from the Gates, I set up a profitable pricing structure that would pay myself well. and cover the expenses of the business and be able to reinvest in the business. And pretty quickly there, I wanted to pay myself from the beginning, pay myself more than my other job so that if this ever became full time, it can be a pretty seamless transition, which by the grace of God, it did end up being a pretty seamless transition. okay So, I mean, the pricing, I always think, I never did it the other way.
00:20:05
Speaker
of stair stepping all the way up, of starting very low and incrementally increasing prices. I imagine that would be a thousand times harder. When you're priced profitably from the beginning and you've set the expectation, I have clients to this day who started with me in 2013 have been very long relationships. And I just feel like when you started at a very, very low price and then you're trying to stair step and climb your way up into a profitable pricing structure.
00:20:36
Speaker
and you're trying to bring the existing clientele you have up with you, yeah that's nearly impossible to do. And if you don't try to bring your existing clientele, then you're having to reinvent your marketing the whole entire time. Every single time you get to a new pricing, you're having to to refine your marketing strategy. And my goodness, that just feels seems exhausting. um you know Nothing, because that's what I did. I started my first wedding. I think I got paid like $400. And then it's constantly like, you shoot a few more weddings, you raise your prices, you get more experience. But I had no background in business. I had no background in photography. And so for me, I just wanted to get my foot in the door. And I had no idea that like there was another way to do it. So I think it's amazing that you just knew right away, I need to make this profitable. I need to figure out what I'm going to get paid.
00:21:26
Speaker
and then you built everything else around it. I wish that I knew that and I wish that more business owners do that. Yeah, it's what I teach, but it's the only way that I know, but I have seen so many people go through. other business models. And I just can't imagine the uphill climb that is. I think what I did was harder from the start, the get-go, but kind of once you have the momentum, then it takes off like a snowball and the momentum carries itself. right So while it might be more intensive in the very beginning, it's a lot better in a self-sustaining model than trying to recreate a snowball at every single level that you get to. And essentially starting over
00:22:09
Speaker
And were you charging your teammates at first? Cause when we teach other designers, we'll normally tell them like, if you have no other design experience, no design work, you probably need to do a few things to build your portfolio, but within very specific like parameters. So like you're going to do XYZ for this person in exchange for a testimonial and a portfolio piece, but you don't want to do that forever. So did you do that for those initial clients to build your portfolio? And then you started implementing that pricing structure or how did that work? Everything was free in the portfolio building stage. So I essentially was not accepting any money until I filed my LLC. I was filed for my sales tax permit and actually established a business. okay So I just clearly went from this is a hobby to this is a business. right And so everything in the hobby stage absolutely was free. I was shooting my friends for free, shooting the teammates for free, reaching out to people and they're more like,
00:23:08
Speaker
models, they weren't actual models back then, but you know trying to get more influential or model type people in the portfolio building stage, right and then did my best to flip a switch and say, that was a hobby, now this is a business, I have my LLC, or legit, we have contracts, we have a website, we have the business things. And not to say that ah things weren't still free here, and then you know now and again, in that situation too. depending on the situation, but I mean, I still shoot for free. I think personal work is extremely important, but I personally tried to make a very clear distinction. I think that's really wise. Or would you have for somebody who is fearful that their chosen niche might be too narrow? Like maybe you could just share some of the winnings and successes that you've had because you went so narrow. Yeah, I...
00:24:05
Speaker
I think you can get pretty darn narrow. i Especially if you have the ability to travel. Where I think people might become too niche is that if they're very tied to a small location and they're extremely niche, then I can understand the numbers might not be quite as sustainable. If you have the ability to travel, then I think that that significantly opens your opportunities. but
00:24:36
Speaker
A, giving yourself, if if you want the photography business to be sustainable, to be maybe full-time, maybe it's part-time, I'm not sure. yeah For me, I think what helped me so much was taking the pressure off of it and working that separate full-time job, right letting it happen organically, letting it happen at its own pace. and had it become an epic failure, the niche wasn't big enough, whatever it was, I wasn't sinking down with that ship. right I think that giving it
00:25:10
Speaker
its own freedom to develop into something strong with deeper roots from an organic perspective of, and organically, I mean word of mouth referrals. It being not me painting the town with ads, but very happy customers lending my name to all of their friends to create a network of new clients coming in, a ton of return clients. I mean, Each year I have about 65% return clients. That's amazing. So it's a lot of returning clients and basically all the new clients are client referrals. So that is where I feel like I i didn't put pressure on the business to succeed early.
Organic Growth and Sustainability in Business
00:25:53
Speaker
I let it kind of beta test, you know be like, is is the is soft launch? you know Is this going to be something that can sustain me in the future? Because like I said, I was unaware of other people doing it. i was I felt there was a market need because I personally felt the need in the market, but I didn't know how many people like me there were out there. you know And I didn't know what they'd be willing to spend. And I didn't know how often they would want to be shooting. And I didn't know so many of these things. And in talking about the returning clients, I from day one have marketed this as a once in a lifetime experience. I thought I would be photographing people one time. Now I have people come to me multiple times a year, or come year after year. So it's kind of like,
00:26:40
Speaker
I had no idea from the beginning that that is the type of client base that I would be developing. That's not something that I saw after and was expecting for myself. So that's why I, in my opinion, if you know you have your heart set on something, you're extremely passionate about something, I think that's the only way to go. You're your own salesman. So the more passionate you are, the more successful you will be in selling the product or service that you offer. So, I mean, be extremely passionate, be narrow focused, work with the people you want to work with, the...
00:27:17
Speaker
subjects that you want to work with, whatever that might be. Um, but in the beginning, I would just give yourself some grace in lifting something up off the ground in any business that's difficult to do, but with a narrow focus, it's all especially difficult to do. And so it can speak of the successes for a long time. Like you were asking me to, but that's kind of how I feel about it is just, if you take the pressure off and not try to dive in full time and just make it have to work, then you have the ability to judge the market demand, tailor your marketing strategy to that demand, maybe increase the demand if if that's something you need to do. And yeah, just create kind of client awareness if you need to, if it's not an established market already.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's so helpful. And I think that's such great advice. I think that in narrowing that focus, you can probably speak to a very specific client avatar. And I'm sure that that helped. I think it's amazing that you realized that people wanted to come back and take these photos every year. So I think that that retention within your business, like that's so encouraging. I think if especially for people who would maybe want to specialize, whether it's photography or something else, Like realizing that in you being the expert, in you narrowing your focus, like you've generated a more sustainable business. I also think it's really fun to hear that opinion because today coming out on our podcast, we have somebody who just quit her job. She started her business as an artist with $400 in her bank account. I think that's what she said. And she just like went for it. So my approach to business is more like yours, but I think it's cool to hear that there's not really a wrong way to do it. Like everybody does differently.
00:28:56
Speaker
Cause I felt like in hearing her and then another person like, was I just like really safe and really fearful? And so like should I been more bold, but I kept a full-time job for several years and I experimented. And then once I had like the established business, I had clients. That's when I left my business, but like, it sounds like you were the same and and it sounds like I feel like, you know, hearing all of this, there's not really a wrong way to do it. So if you're listening to this and you have heard the other episodes and you've heard this episode, like know that you don't just have to at your job and then go out and get business and have no money in your bank account. So yeah, I think that's... Well, no, and I have a couple of friends. They're all equine photographers. We do everything a little bit differently in who we serve, but I can name you three who quit their jobs, no money in the bank account, bought a camera,
00:29:43
Speaker
dove in head first. They have yeah extremely successful businesses. yeah I don't have the risk tolerance for that. I don't have the risk appetite for that. So I think that that just comes down to a personality yeah and trait and in the risk appetite that you have, yeah because that is just not something that I would be able to do.
Kirsty's Educational Endeavors and Risk Approach
00:30:00
Speaker
I needed my business to be rock solid. And like I said, at the same level as my full time before I crossed over and said, okay, ah Yeah, let's go see what this is gonna do. i I needed to know that that ship was sturdy before I put both feet in. Right. Yeah. thought um So if people want to learn more about you, I know that you educate other equine photographers. Is that correct? That's your specialty for education. where can we find you Entrepreneurs in general, honestly, there's a whole business section that's for entrepreneurs in general. That's going over pricing, going over marketing, beginning marketing and advanced marketing, all sorts of stuff. Then I do have very niche yeah how to pose girls and horses, how to work around horses for photographers who have net you have zero horse experience.
00:30:46
Speaker
I have courses like that. So there is a ah lot of education opportunities on KMP for Kirsten Marie Photography learn.com. So I have a brand learn with Kirsten Marie Photography at KMP learn.com and it has its own social media, you know, on Facebook and Instagram and whatnot, but it's own website and I have been blogging free education since 2015. That's a long time. That's a long time. If you keep scrolling that blog, I have been teaching everything I know. They're also on demand video courses that I sell on there. So if you want more in depth education, it's video in that if it's a marketing class, it's sitting at a computer. But if it is an onset, like I have working with natural light, I have, you know, posing and whatnot, those are all on location.
00:31:35
Speaker
you're watching me work with real people, real horses, everything like that. So there are in-person mentoring opportunities. There's the on-demand videos. There's virtual calls and whatnot if you want specialized help. And then there is the free blog and the PDF downloads that are all free. That's awesome. And we'll link to all of those in our show notes too, so that if you want to learn more or just see your beautiful images of, is it mostly girls with horses? Yes, there are some gentlemen with their horses as well. ha I feel like all the riders I know are typically are like female. It's it's female heavy. Yes. Yes. Equestrians and their horses. Equestrians and their horses. Well, thank you again for joining me and for such just an insightful conversation. Absolutely. I can't thank you enough for having me here. Thank you very, very much.
00:32:26
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands of Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing this episode with others. For show notes and other resources, head on over to DavianKrista.com.