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Soggy Toast and Eggs Galore: Living in the Sonic World?!
142 Plays9 months ago
In this episode, Satusnami is joined by the fantastic Wysteria Moth to discuss what it would be like to live in the world of Sonic the Hedgehog. From soggy toast to ruined vacations, listen to how the duo would survive through the trials and tribulations of a world where hedgehogs talk and egg shaped men threaten society!
NOTE: Some of the audio appears to have been distorted during the audio process. Sincere apologies for this.
This podcast is a member of the PodPack Collective. The members are as follows:
Chatsunami
Casting Views
Nerdstalgic
2 Girls 1 Reusable Cup
Review it Yourself
Seismic Cinema
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. My name's Chatsunami and rolling around at the speed of sound is none other than the one and only Listeria Moth. Moth, welcome back.
00:00:32
Speaker
great to be back. Hello, hello. How are you doing tonight? Listen, I am caffeinated and feeling great, so we're going to go with that. I'm trying to get into the Sonic state of
Sonic the Hedgehog Content Discussion
00:00:43
Speaker
mind. And on that note, of course, today we are bringing it back to Sonic. I know, surprisingly, we have never talked about Sonic and Jet Tsunami. We never had a month of it. We never spoke with Super Shadow 2.71 about Sonic 06 and Frontiers. You didn't come on for an episode.
00:01:02
Speaker
Well, listen, I would remember that. I would remember that and I don't, so I mean… Exactly. Yeah, we definitely also didn't talk about the Sonic movie, we didn't talk about the retro age, the modern, the dark, so we're gonna have to make up for lost time. And for legal reasons, that is indeed a joke. Go check out those episodes, please. Please, I beg you, I have a young dog to feed, I have a producer to feed, so… Listen, she won't stop staring at him until something is done, so please.
00:01:31
Speaker
Well you should stay in that me just now, hungrily in 10 going father. I must read. Father please. Father. Father why. Father help. Father.
00:01:42
Speaker
But yeah, jokes aside, today we are bringing it back to quite possibly an age-old topic that my very good friend Adam and I accidentally but not accidentally kicked off when I think it was a year or two ago we talked about the age-old question of living in the Pokémon world. So for those of you who don't know, absolutely crazy episode, but we essentially talked about what it would be like living in that world, the pros, the cons, and
00:02:12
Speaker
Then that kind of sparked off a somewhat sub-series because I did a Living in the Legend of Zelda world with my friend Andrew. Then I brought on Robotic Battle Toaster to talk about living in the Warhammer 40k world, which was another absolutely fantastic episode.
Living in the Sonic Universe
00:02:30
Speaker
I mean, to be fair, you had it right the first time. You had to bring him on. I mean, honestly, I think he would have actually cried if you didn't.
00:02:36
Speaker
Well, yeah, yeah, that's true. Painting his models in silence. Just painting his models in a dark corner going, how good this happened to me. There goes my hero.
00:02:50
Speaker
So yeah, what better way to continue this pseudo-subseries as it were than to talk about living in the Sonic the Hedgehog world. I am so hyped for this one because, spoilers, I'm a massive Sonic the Hedgehog fan, spoilers, Moth is as well, is that right insane?
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I sort of gave myself away on our previous podcast we did on the Stem. We're not quite a similar topic, but it's like what it's like being a Sonic Hedgehog fan. And I think I really sort of gave away a lot of my street cred on that one. But you know what? We got to do what we got to do. No, no, no. Very, very true. Because we have been following this pretty much throughout our childhood, haven't we?
00:03:30
Speaker
And let me tell you, especially with this year, apparently it was 2023 and coming into 2024, how can we not sort of have that obsession revitalized, you know? And I was just talking about this the other day with a friend of mine. I'm like, listen, Sonic the Hedgehog was my whole identity through middle school up until like part of high school. And so suddenly with all of this content coming out, especially content that is
00:03:52
Speaker
good and things that I'm looking forward to and things that are also like bringing back some of the nostalgic elements as well. So like Sonic Prime, Sonic Frontiers, the second Sonic the Hedgehog film. Looking forward to the third Sonic the Hedgehog film and Sonic and Shadow Generations and of course the Knuckles series on Paramount+. There is so much Sonic content coming out that my old special interest of Sonic the Hedgehog just rose from the grave.
Character Focus: Shadow the Hedgehog
00:04:17
Speaker
With a vengeance. It's like, you know that scene in One Punch Man. I don't know if you've watched it or not. Where Genos is laying flat on his back and then suddenly he's just upright on his feet, ready to just rock and roll. That's my old special interest coming back to the forefront in mass, just ready for this.
00:04:32
Speaker
I was just thinking of that scene from Mulan where Mioshu the dragon comes up and goes, I live. No, that's exactly it. And the fake case is like, I find myself even in all of that, I find myself consuming more Sonic content. Like I'm going back and listening to all the old soundtracks. I'm going back and watching some of the old shows. I'm going back and listen, I've been playing Sonic Adventure 2 for like a week straight, just riding the hype off of the live and learn announcement for a third film. It's wild. Yeah.
00:05:00
Speaker
a couple of weeks ago, I'm gonna say as I'm recording this episode, friend of the channel and the podcast of course, SuperShadow271 and I recorded an episode based on talking about the whole year of Shadow the Hedgehog that they seem to be pushing just now, because as you said, they're bringing out Sonic X Shadow Generations, which I have to be very careful for that. Kids, if you're listening out there, type in Sonic X Shadow Generations
00:05:26
Speaker
Type out the full name. Don't be lazy. OK, please. Google at your own risk. We did talk about that surprisingly. Funny enough, that seems to be a rather poignant topic in the various spheres, and especially some of those who have witnessed a lot of that first and foremost, sitting in the front row, as it were, seeing a lot of that unfold. It's like, we're back in the fucking building again.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's like you're reading the newspaper and you're like, oh, right, a new Sonic game. And then the newspaper just folds in on itself. And you're like, what did they call it? So I was like, oh, here we go. But no, like the year of the shadow, I'm ready for it because I'm not even going to lie. I was a shameless shadow fan girl. I'm still a shameless shadow fan girl. He's my absolute favorite. And I'm really, really hoping that we're going to get some redemption for shadow this year in the various media that he's in.
00:06:17
Speaker
you know, because as you said, we had Sonic Prime. We've got the new game coming out. We have, of course, the spoilers for the second movie, but we've got him appearing in the third Sonic the Hedgehog film. It's going to be great.
Sonic Timeline and Lore Exploration
00:06:31
Speaker
But of course, with Shadow, with Sonic, with the whole world, the whole world of Sonic the Hedgehog is surprisingly chunky, I've got to say.
00:06:44
Speaker
And this is something that you and I talk about quite a lot when we're saying like how does certain games fit in with the timeline and things because I know for the Archie comics, and again this is a whole subject in itself, but they tried to weave it all together and then once that was cancelled then I think
00:07:02
Speaker
Ironically enough, Ian Flann, who's the writer for, well, he was the writer for Sonic Frontiers, but he was also the writer for the new IDW comics as well. And I think the archery comics as well, a wee bit of that. So he's also been trying to stick everything together and some bits work, some bits don't, and that just makes a beautiful hotpot, melting pot, whatever pot you want to have right in front of you. Cacophony. Yeah, cacophony.
00:07:31
Speaker
of just absolute chaos. Not chaos control, just chaos. Not perfect chaos, just chaos. And on that note, that is the perfect segue to get into this, so...
00:07:43
Speaker
Moth, are you ready? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, and we will be indeed loving and learning in this universe right after these messages. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that discusses topics from gaming and films to anime in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we've analysed what makes a good horror game, conducted a retrospective on Pierce Brosnan's runs James Bond, and listened to us take deep dives into both the Sonic and Halo franchises.
00:08:11
Speaker
Also, if you're an anime fan, then don't forget to check us out on our sub-series, Chatsunani, where we dive into the world of anime. So far, we've reviewed things like Death Note, Princess Mononoke, and the hit Beyblade series. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:08:33
Speaker
So, Moth, how does it feel knowing that there's a military organisation in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe? Well, the thing is, right? It only makes sense, kinda? And the only reason why I say that is because the fact is, Sonic, unless you're going really heavily on the Archie side of things where it's like, oh, Sonic, this takes place on a planet called Mobius and floating in the middle of multiverses and everything like that and it's just wild. It's a whole rabbit hole.
00:09:02
Speaker
But pretty much the idea, right, is that the setting of Sonic is either on Earth or Earth adjacent, right? Some place that has multiple countries with multiple bodies of power. So a military organization wouldn't necessarily be too out of place. A military organization like gun though, I mean, I'm assuming this is gun we're talking about. I mean, I hope so.
00:09:24
Speaker
I just went in the deep end there, I apologise. No, that's fine. To kind of backtrack a bit for those who are new and the audience going, Satsu, why the hell did you go for the military complex and sodding the hedgehog? I thought this was about a cute blue hedgehog that ran around collecting rings. I have a feeling, I see where you're going with this already, and I'm really excited to talk about this. If this is going the direction I think you're going, oh yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
So, to briefly summarise, when Sonic the Hedgehog started out for all the newcomers, Sonic was created in 1991 as a adjacent to Mario. So basically, he was meant to be the complete opposite to Mario. He was like the cool dude with the attitude, and he was just this hedgehog that fought against this egg-shaped man. Don't worry, we'll get onto him in these medical marvels of proportions.
00:10:16
Speaker
because he's the only human that looks like this, but we'll get on to that. The perfect sphere of a man. Oh, I wish I had that body type, you know.
00:10:25
Speaker
Giga chad, what's that? Eggman chad. That's peak. You might not agree with it, but that is peak humanity right there. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. But yeah, it was basically about this small hedgehog who fought against this evil scientist
Sonic Adventure's Impact
00:10:41
Speaker
man essentially called Eggman or Robotnik depending on your preference. That was really it. So Eggman was the only human in this world. And the thing is, the more you go into the games,
00:10:52
Speaker
think it's not until, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think it's until Sonic Adventure, which was one of the first 3D games that really took Sonic to different heights in terms of the gaming sphere, because there were 3D games before that, but that was the first game that there was humans in it, wasn't it? Lapera Yeah, I think you're about right there. And I think another thing that changed Sonic forever when it came to Sonic Adventure is just giving you that freedom to explore a world that's much more populated.
00:11:22
Speaker
My biggest issue with the older Sonic games, and this is probably going to be a bit sacrilege to everyone. Don't get me wrong. I loved playing them, but you had a lot of these really interesting worlds. Like, you know, the chemical plant zone, you had, oh, what was that? Oh, there was one called marble, something marble zone. That's exactly it. The beautiful structures, but then there was no real substance to them. There was nothing really populating those zones.
00:11:43
Speaker
They were bare, but we didn't really know anything about them other than the fact that, oh, we wanted something interesting for the level design and to show a progression while you're playing the game. Okay, neat. Sonic Adventure really sort of changed the game because you had these different locales in the game, but they actually populated these spaces and gave you a purpose of being there rather than just gotta go fast. And I think that that was something that was revolutionary for Sonic games and something that Sonic so desperately did because it needed an identity outside of a blue hedgehog and ran fast.
00:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, it had to evolve. I don't know what ironically has to evolve. It's a hedgehog, but it desperately did need to evolve because if it was still the hedgehog versus evil scientist, I know Crash Bandicoot technically did a similar thing, but all I'll say is, where's Crash Bandicoot now? Exactly. I mean, as bad as it sounds, it's true. For legal reasons, that's a joke. Crash Bandicoot fans, please don't steal my apples.
00:12:38
Speaker
Please, I just bought a new batch, please. Oh my god. I need them to keep the doctors at bay, please. Dr. Eggman, you fool. Dr. Eggman's beating down my door, please. You fool. I might mincemeat out of you. Mr. Man, no. I did not, Mr. Man. He went to like six years of medical school not to be called Mr. Man. Hey, I said that out of fear, okay.
00:13:04
Speaker
But around the late 90s, early 2000s, Sonic Adventure was the game that solidified that we were alone in the universe. We had giant hedgehogs running around and I know they flip flop about where Sonic comes from, like sometimes it's
00:13:20
Speaker
between Hill Zone, sometimes it's South Island. I think South Island's technically the area. But, you know, they actually explain this. Of all things, they explain this in, I think, a tales tube. You know, the shorts that they use tales as a V-trooper. Listen, I forgot that I even existed, honestly. Oh yeah, I know, same.
00:13:39
Speaker
I feel like I'm missing out on a world of content now. I forgot that that existed. What the heck? Yeah, but they explain how, oh, there's South Island, there's the areas where all the animals live, and then they talk about Station Square and all the other places. Can you imagine, right, you wake up and you go, ah, the rent seems to be really cheap in this Station Square place. And you're walking around, do you think, oh, lovely city, there's a burger place, there's a lovely town
00:14:06
Speaker
all there, and then all of a sudden, a big purple cat barges by you. I mean, listen, at this point, I'm gonna assume, right? I'm gonna, this is me, this is very assuming, right? If this all does take place on one planet, which at this point, especially with frontiers, just sort of being like, oh yeah, all these worlds are canon and they're all interconnected. Okay, great, nice, I guess. I'm
Life in Sonic's World
00:14:28
Speaker
assuming that this isn't something out of the ordinary.
00:14:31
Speaker
The fact that people don't even bat an eye about a giant eight foot tall purple cat bounding his way down the street, screaming for his little froggy friend, I mean at this point she was like, okay. You know when you've got people in the street trying to get your attention to sell you something? You know, do you think it's like that where these massive anthropomorphic animals be like, excuse me sir, have you seen Froggy? Just keep your head down, don't look. Remember your training.
00:15:00
Speaker
I know, it's exactly like the people have little kiosks set up in the shopping center trying to sell you, like trying to get you to switch power companies or something in that and you're just like, keep walking, keep walking, nothing to see here. Do you know what's even worse though? It's the fact that, can you imagine being from the middle of nowhere, small town, you think, you know what, I'm going to make it in the big city. A bit like any films in New York where it's like, I'm going to move there and I'm going to start a successful business and everything and then you get there and you get this.
00:15:28
Speaker
aid jog, there's half the size of you being like, haha, wait that's cool, oh yeah. Why did I leave my humble village for this?
00:15:35
Speaker
Well, no, honestly, I feel like that would be a little bit of culture shock, especially from the looks of it. You know, Sonic and his friends, there's quite a few of them now, but if you put that compared to the human population, that way you've seen, they're still quite rare. It seems like that Sonic and his friends are already a little bit of an anomaly on our planet, be it Earth or Earth or Jason. And just for the sake of being able to just differentiate between them, I'm going to refer to, for me personally, anyway, I'm going to refer to Sonic and his friends as Mobians and then humans.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, this is operating under the assumption that we are sort of basing our sort of analysis here on the fact that we are living on a planet that is earth or earth-adjacent. Then I keep saying it's gonna be like catchphrase by the time this podcast is over. Could we swap out on that t-shirt? Exactly. Let's get merch out of this one. But no, just the fact that we're taking place on an earth planet, right? Or just could call it planet Earth. Mobians in this sort of a case,
00:16:22
Speaker
seem like they're already a little bit of – they're not even quite rare, but they're just uncommon. So while people in larger demographics like places like Station Square would probably be used to seeing something like him, especially since – I'm probably skipping ahead a little bit, especially since, you know, by the time of Sonic Adventure 2, people know who Sonic the Hedgehog is in Station Square. Well, no, no, no, no. Let's backtrack here. You say they know who Sonic the Hedgehog is,
00:16:46
Speaker
but he was running around in Station Square anyway. No, no, no, but I mean, in Sonic Adventure 2, you say they knew who Sonic was, but they were also looking at Shadow the Hedgehog, saying, hey, is that Sonic? Listen, this bolsters my point. This bolsters my point. The thing is, they know who Sonic the Hedgehog is, but because mopians aren't very common, you see two hedgehogs and you go, hey, maybe, maybe there's something there. Maybe that is Sonic, you know? Are people racist against hedgehogs in this in the future?
00:17:14
Speaker
I mean, they might be. I mean, to be honest, I think I would probably be a bit bitter if, as I said, I went to Station Square about a life for myself. Then all of a sudden, this eggy man came down from the sky and he was trying to crush an eight-year-old fox boy. And you're like, all right, okay, that's weird. Then he tries to blow up your home. Right, okay, this is just terrorism at this point. Well, there goes the neighborhood. There was a value.
00:17:39
Speaker
so much for the real estate market. Driving up the rent prices. I mean, living beside a casino can't help either, but that's a story for another day. Then you've sitting at your home, you've got a cup of tea, you're like, oh, what a day, what a day. Oh, it's raining outside.
00:17:54
Speaker
And two seconds later, your city has been overrun with water, it's been drowned. You're trying to save your dreamcast from getting wet. You look out the window, there's this behemoth of an ancient creature that has just drowned the city. You're pretty sure you heard an explosion in the background from another war machine. And then you look and you think, oh, I should really move from Station Square.
00:18:19
Speaker
So then you move to not San Francisco and you say, you know what? I've saved up my money. I've got a car now. Let me just park it in the streets. Then you see that same hedgehog run by and your car goes flying. What is the insurance rate like in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe? Does Gunn, the military organisation, we're probably going to touch on later. Do they have a reimbursement plan?
00:18:41
Speaker
Do they have egg montage? Well, listen, at this point, I honestly can't help it. They would have to. And if anything, I feel like gun was actually no, this is a whole rabbit hole. Yeah. Oh, my God. Because this goes way back. This goes way back because oh, my God. Wait a second.
00:18:58
Speaker
Wait, because I was about to make the point of, well, Gunn would have to have some sort of responsibility and or coverage for mass disasters like this happening. But then before that, because you have to remember that Gunn's presence isn't just a recent thing. Yeah, it's 15 years ago, would you believe?
00:19:18
Speaker
Maybe even longer than that. This has been an established military group for a very, very long time. No, because then it just makes you wonder, like, how long has shit like this been happening? How many children have they shot in the face, is what we're asking? We have a point for this, by the way.
00:19:41
Speaker
No, there actually is- no, listen, okay, there actually is a point that I would love to make here. I don't know if this is the time to make the point, so I'll put it back in the box for now. But just to answer your question here about- Gun insurance. Gun insurance. There would have to be. There would just have to be. The fact that there is a whole- and it's not even just one nation contributing to this military. It's supposedly a global effort. There are eight gun agents literally everywhere. It is a worldwide unified military.
00:20:07
Speaker
This is a conspiracy theater's wait dream, hasn't it? Yeah, the fact is is that I don't know if you would call it an actual proper established military or a PMC, but we do know that it is endorsed by at least one world leader and that being the President of the United States.
Guardian Units of Nations (GUN) Deep Dive
00:20:21
Speaker
So the whole gun rabbit hole just goes down so deep.
00:20:25
Speaker
Oh, I've got a whole rant about this, by the way. I can just hear you unrolling the scroll of all of the notes talking about how Gunn is. Because listen, I can contribute to this as well, because there is one major point that I can make in all of this, and I'm surprised I didn't think of it sooner.
00:20:43
Speaker
Okay, before we go on and unbox the G.U.N. as it were, I have to say, you would not have a stable life in this universe. As I said, if you move to Station Square, you have the issues of Dr. Legman trying to destroy it, and then eventually it does get destroyed and rebuilt and everything. So you think, well, I'm
00:21:03
Speaker
going to have to move out. So you go to City Escape. I don't know why the city's called. I just call it City Escape. You go there, and then there is a chase between Sonic and the military. Again, we'll get to that. But yeah, your car's been thrown in the air. You're pretty sure a truck that's two lanes worth of cars. And where did they find the funding for that thing? America. Anyway.
00:21:31
Speaker
valid disposable income. I should say United Nations. I'm just over here like the land of discretionary spending. The land of quote unquote not America even though there's a president that lives in the White House. Can I get geopolitical in the sense of Sonic the Hedgehog here? This is something that I brought up in our past episodes in
00:21:53
Speaker
I think it was when we discussed the dark age of Sonic the Hedgehog with my very good friend Adam and I, we talked about how the president seems to have a very pro hedgehog manifesto, I would say, because there's a scene in Shadow the Hedgehog of all games.
00:22:12
Speaker
There's a scene in that where he's standing there, and I absolutely love this scene, it's incredible, look up on YouTube if you don't believe me here, but he goes to the phone and the secretary's just like Mr President, we're losing all our forces and everything, and he just turns out to stay up and goes, have the general, we will never negotiate with terrorists.
00:22:31
Speaker
something like that and you're like whoa okay this is getting dark for a Sonic game. But then he turns round and he looks at his desk and he has a picture of Sonic and Shadow on it and what I love about that is canonically there is no way that picture could have taken place.
00:22:47
Speaker
I'll explain why. So, the game before it was Sonic Heroes, where they all worked together to save the world. And there was about 12 heroes in that. So, he only got a photo of Sonic in Shadow. What happened to the other people who were involved? Were they not invited? Seriously, was the president just like, oh yeah, I'm pro hedgehog now. But then what about Amy? Because Amy's a hedgehog as well. So like, is he just sexist?
00:23:12
Speaker
I mean, there's an argument for that. But no, the fact is, I feel like that... No, he's not so much pro hedgehog as much as I think that he was just like, you know what, I'm gonna find the two best photos of these two that I can and just splice them together on Photoshop. This is just some fan behavior from the president, I think. The president surprisingly is one of the weirdest gods.
00:23:34
Speaker
I think I have ever had the mis-pleasure of coming across in a video game because Sonic, Shadow, even Dr. Eggman, you can understand their race in the universe but can you imagine just this beanpole of a man leading the nation?
00:23:50
Speaker
Here's my thing, right? I feel like the president specifically enshadowed the hedgehog. He was super awkward, but I feel like he was supposed to take the position of the voice of the people. Yeah. He was supposed to be like the collective voice of the people of Earth. There was kind of like a weird association to make, but in, and this is going to be a little bit of a side tangent here, but it's just strong parallel between these two characters. There's a character.
00:24:11
Speaker
In the film, Cloudy with a chance of meatballs named Joe Town, and his name is literally Joe Town because nine times out of ten, if somebody needed to speak for the feelings of the town's people, he would have dialogue. He is the one that would give it. In this case, I feel like the president is Shroud of the Hedgehog's Joe Town. I feel like that's the only reason why he was so awkward about things and everything like that. Like he just wasn't a very well-written character, to be honest, because I don't think he was necessarily supposed to be
00:24:36
Speaker
He was there really just to be a placeholder and a singular figure to represent the face of the entirety of humanity. And it just didn't really come across very well. And the photo on the desk just does my head in. Because you're right, canonically there is no way that that photo should exist, but it does.
00:24:52
Speaker
Because, I mean, it's either between that or the fact that he has definitely photoshopped himself to see that photo of Professor Gerald Robotnik in Maria. I am 100% convinced that he has photoshopped himself into that image. I've even photoshopped it just
00:25:09
Speaker
to see what it would look like, and that is hilarious. Before I go on, you touched on something, because how could it get any worse that the city you were living in's been destroyed by an ancient creature, a massive military truck is going in? So you say
00:25:24
Speaker
You know what, I'm gonna move to this other neighbourhood that's called Wistopolis. It is a very nice area, it's got arks nearby, good for families, and then you look up and aliens. Aliens drop down. So hostile aliens are definitely a thing in this universe, and they wanna blow up.
00:25:44
Speaker
If you haven't watched Independence Day, it's pretty much like Independence Day with hedgehogs. We didn't even touch on the whole colony drop thing, but you know what, I feel like we're going to come back around to that because there's something to be said there. But I feel like talking about the Black Arms is a really great way to go about this because, oh man, that is a lot to unpack with the Black Arms.
00:26:03
Speaker
Because here's the thing, you know, imagine you get yourself used to the fact that there is a talking hedgehog, or sorry, talking hedgehogs plural. There's talking animals around, they're helping you save the world, do you think? OK, I can deal with that. We have heroes that will protect us. Sure, they're three foot tall, but they're here to protect us.
00:26:20
Speaker
But then you turn on the news and then you find out that someone did their investigative journaling and they found out that Shadow was… yes, this is a spoiler for Shadow the Hedgehog, for anybody who's a wee bit nervous about spoilers for that game. But yeah, you find out that Shadow was made partly by aliens. I mean, not by them, but you know, he was made with alien DNA, so he's part alien and everything. Where would you go from there?
00:26:49
Speaker
be sitting there like, I am so done with this one. It's already... JL, listen, that's one way you could do. Or you could be sitting there having your morning coffee, eating your cornflakes, watching Sonic the Hedgehog's latest heroic exploits somewhere in another country somewhere, that whole thing.
00:27:06
Speaker
and then used to get the report of like a little bit of a smear campaign against Shadow the Hedgehog, who the world still isn't quite sure, not quite sure about Shadow. Like, yeah, sure. He helps on stop an actual fucking colony from being dropped on us. But, you know, we're still not quite sure about him because he's, ooh, he did bad stuff. But to find out that he's part alien at that point and not only part alien, but part of the aliens that are currently trying to destroy our planet at that point, I think you either go, man, I'm so over this, or yeah, that tracks and you keep drinking your coffee.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think what you would probably do is just a long, hearty, and you would just keep going with your day. It's like, you've paid a 12 month mortgage, keep it together. You've got to get through this. Oh no, that's exactly it. You get to a point where you're just like, you know what? I have moved three times in the last five years. I'm not going again. Oh, and you're going to keep moving because what happens in the next game? Because I hope you're not on the Fisher point of the 2020.
00:28:06
Speaker
Because oh boy, when that planet splits apart... Well no listen, you can't move then! Because the planet is literally split apart, you have no choice but to stay where you're at. But can you imagine that it's just like you wake up and half your house is gone and you're like, Jesus, there's a breeze going through here. And then you look down and go... Oh! Oh!
00:28:26
Speaker
Well, I mean, number one, super fucking lucky. Number two, you're not getting your security deposit back. Oh, no. Not at all. No. The landlord's probably in the big sinkhole. Yeah. Where is he? Down the hole. You will never financially recover from this.
00:28:43
Speaker
There is just no coming back. No, because the thing is, right? I really don't think that there is a really good place to put this. I'm just really dying to say it at this point. So all of this is happening, right? And we have these same players that keep appearing over and over and over again. Dr. Eggman, usually aided by some variety of batshit crazy things, is coming to destroy the world. Sonic and friends come to stop him from destroying the world. All of this started with Gun.
00:29:10
Speaker
There is a canon event here that set the entirety of all of this fuckery into motion. And it was when you talk about shooting kids, they shot one kid and the world went to shit. Yeah, this is like the Harambee 2016 moment here.
00:29:28
Speaker
And that's a very, very callous way of putting it, right? But no, honestly, I really think that there is the entirely serious here, which is quite funny for this kind of topic. To be entirely serious here, I feel like the death of Maria Robotnik set something in motion that could never be
Gerald Robotnik's Tragic Role
00:29:43
Speaker
undone.
00:29:43
Speaker
Right, can I go into this because I have been itching to go into Gunn and the whole reason that his somehow does not work in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe. To the extent that they technically tried to, or they didn't try to wreck on them but they kept them as far away from Sonic forces as possible.
00:30:04
Speaker
Why not? Because Sonic Forces, for anyone who doesn't know, that was a game where they tried to do every bandfiction writer's dream where it was like, oh, there's a war between the Mobians, the animals versus Dr. Robotnik and his forces. But of course, gun doesn't appear, and instead they have very comically large, colorful, kid-friendly guns, which I'm sure they can sell at a reasonable price. Easily marketable plushy weapons! Yeah, exactly!
00:30:32
Speaker
That is the only reason, and I think they explain it in a tail strip, I'm sure, that they say, oh yeah, a gun was dispatched or something by Eggman. Because clearly, and I'm going to be honest, other than that, small percentage of Sonic fans, nobody wants to see a kid play a game where their colourful OC is holding a Glock, OK? We already had that. It was called Shadow the Hedgehog. I mean, listen, I liked it. Oh, true. True.
00:30:58
Speaker
I feel like you had to be there. You had to be one of those people who was there for the moment for you to really appreciate it. It was a different time. It was a very different time. And especially it spoke to the really edgy team that I was the time be like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna give my favorite character a gun. I mean, I'll put it to you this way. Shadow was my favorite character to the point where I played that in Sonic Heroes, I played Team Dark Story first, even though it was technically hard mode.
00:31:22
Speaker
But can you imagine though, as I said, you're sitting in your apartment and the aliens have arrived, they're shooting up the place, you look outside and you think, oh thank god, guns are here and everything, and you see a big hedgehog run by with a massive
00:31:37
Speaker
That's it. I'm moving to Chinan. That is it. No, we can't do this anymore. It just gets to the point where you're just kind of like, oh god. So we've been beating around the bush about this for quite a while now about GUN, GUN, Guardian Units of Nations, I want to say. That's what it stands for. This will be a really weird thing for a lot of people listening who aren't Sonic the Hedgehog fans because they're like, why are we making such a big deal about this? So basically,
00:32:03
Speaker
As we said, Sonic was created as the antithesis of Mario. You know, he was the complete opposite. He was like radical, too cool. And then even in Sonic Adventure, they had police officers with guns, and they tried to robocop a water monster, and it never worked, and they just never brought up
00:32:22
Speaker
again, but then in the second game, they of course have the military. Lore-wise, they bring us all up, and this is what, of course, you were mentioning them both, where 50 plus years ago, when all the Sonic games started, there was an event where Dr. Eggman's, I want to say his grandfather, isn't it? Yeah, it was his grandfather. So technically, Maria Robotnik would have been Dr. Eggman's cousin. Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
For some reason, his grandfather and cousin decided to live on the International Space Station. Oh, there actually is a reason for that. See, this is the thing though, because I know the reason in the comics it's to do with the disease that Maria's got, isn't it? Yeah, it wasn't even just in the comics. It was also in the Shadow of the Hedgehog game. That was the explanation. Was it actually in the game? Yeah, that was it. So the reason why Maria was on the Ark was because she had a chronic illness. I can't remember exactly. It was a neurological
00:33:17
Speaker
and IDS. Yeah, so she was sick. And so she arrived better in simulated gravity than actual gravity. She was actually healthier on the space colony than she would have been on Earth.
00:33:28
Speaker
I was going to say that in the property prices must have been extortionate with all the more stuff running around. I was going to say, no, listen, at this point, everything was fine. Earth would have actually been peachy keen at this point, because remember, this is before the canon event. Marya's whole thing was that she... And this is how you could also get into the psychology of Dr. Eggman as a villain as well, because this is something that actually brought up in one of the voice memos on Sonic current
00:33:55
Speaker
which I thought was really interesting, which sort of gives more credit to the fact that Maria's death is what really shaped the modern sonic world as we know it. Because gun exists as a military for a world that is somewhat unified, but still even then you're going to need military. Gun exists as, at this point, I would say to PMC rather than it actually being like a properly established military, because we don't know what the conflict was like on earth. Well, I mean, that must have been pretty bad considering what they did.
00:34:24
Speaker
Oh yeah, it seems like Gerald was already up to some stuff that was questionable at best. The fact that it was alluding that he was working with, of course, you know, going back to the whole Black Arms thing, you know, he was working to develop what was to be considered the ultimate life form and ultimate weapon. But that ultimate life form, Gerald also wanted to put the key to Maria's survival in that being as well. So Shadow ultimately was the product of two conflicting wishes.
00:34:50
Speaker
but only one of them could come true. In this case, neither of them came true, really. The thing is, to the average Joe, and obviously the average Joe would have no idea this went on, and I am so excited to see they actually deal with this in live-action films because they've been so relatively kid-friendly. If I'm going to encroach on this territory, then I am so damn curious to see what they do. Going back to the canon event at Jupiter,
00:35:18
Speaker
The fact is that Gerald Robotnik is the Doctor Eggman of his time. He decided to work on the space station. He had a whole team of scientists and things. This is Canon. He created these artificial creatures based off of the water monster chaos, which again, a bit of a weird side project, I'm going to be honest. But you know what? I paint 40k models. You can do what you want.
00:35:43
Speaker
I think the fact that he was trying to replicate chaos already was probably one of the reasons why Gunn was so weary of him and so leery of him and what he was doing up there and everything like that. So we don't actually really know what Gerald's objective was before he had the goal to make a cure for Maria.
00:36:00
Speaker
I mean, this is the problem I have with the whole gun angle and the whole Gerald Robotnik thing, because they clearly set him up as this tragic villain character. So basically, again, imagine yourself, you're sitting in your not-San Francisco apartment
00:36:16
Speaker
you're literally just off the phone with them and they're saying, oh, it's going to cost 5,000 rings. And I'm like, oh, I don't have that. Can I pay you? Then you're having a mental breakdown and you think, how could this get any worse? So two seconds later, you turn on your TV. This old man is chained up to a chair in front of a firing squad and you go,
00:36:36
Speaker
I haven't seen this film before, and this is of course referring to what happens in Sonic Adventure 2 where Gerald Robotnik beams himself and reveals the horrid truth that Gunn, because they were so wary of his experiments, which to be fair, I would be wary too if there was a giant lizard.
00:36:53
Speaker
living in my space colony, but we'll get to that. But yeah, they invaded the space station because they didn't quite like what he was up to. And yes, of course, we've been quite flippant about it and you're kind of jokey, but that is what tragically happens, that maybe your robot knight, Eggman's cousin, gets tragically shot, and that's what basically spurs on Shadow's villain arc, to put it very nicely. It does start off as villain arc, and that's what really sort of puts the story of Sonic Adventure 2 in motion.
00:37:21
Speaker
And again, like I want to reinforce the fact that you point the major there truly is a tragedy what happened to Maria Robotnik, we can sit here and laugh about it and meme about it. Because you know, we were part of the generation that grew up playing this game. This is something that's just so natural to us. And it's just a part of what happened. Other people might not feel that but truly what happened to Maria was a tragedy. And I sort of
00:37:42
Speaker
joke and say that it's a canon event, but in a way, I'm also not really joking. Because if you really think about it, right, Maria's death sparked a whole descent into madness for Gerald. And it's implied through other means of media that the whole family around Gerald just sort of fell apart after Maria's death. The grief was just too much.
00:38:03
Speaker
But then you had Dr. Eggman right there, needed a family, but instead he watched his family self-destruct and be destroyed by Gunn because of the death of his cousin. And that's going to do something to a kid. That's going to do a lot of terrible things to a kid. And so Maria's death really was the gateway that opened up, I feel, to not only Shadow's villain arc, but also was the start of Dr. Eggman's villain arc. This is where it started for him.
00:38:29
Speaker
Seeing a narrative point of view, you know, you make a completely good point. And I'm actually really interested to see what younger players of Sonic or rather younger fans think
Chaos and Hope in Sonic's World
00:38:40
Speaker
about that. Because, you know, they are probably more used to seeing, like, a light.
00:38:44
Speaker
version of Sonic? When we are talking about, oh, imagine living in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe, and they're like, well, what do you mean planet's split in half? What do you mean that you're getting chased? Or- It's like the planet just split in half. We almost got a colony dropped on us. We had a giant water monster blowing up a city. There's a different tragedy every other day. What do you mean? What do you want from me?
00:39:07
Speaker
We haven't even really touched on the more modern Sonic games, like Sonic Colors, where you're going to other planets. So that implies that there are whole other universes, there are whole other parts of the galaxy that are involved in this as well. And then of course, if you wanted to get really deep into the rabbit hole, you go into the Archie comics and you go into like the whole, I haven't read much of the IDW, so I don't know if I toy with this as much, but I know in the Archie comics, you play a lot with multiverses here.
00:39:32
Speaker
parallel universes. There is so much going on! At any point in time, where do you even start? Well, I don't know if I would prefer that compared to what happens in the IDW comics. The main one I read and I was shocked at was the Metavirus arc, which I think I've talked to you about. Yes.
00:39:50
Speaker
It is such an amazing one, but if you're thinking of living in that universe, you have to then realise that, wow, Dr Eggman has biological weapons and he is going to use them on the populace without any remorse. And you're like, that deposit isn't coming back for your flock.
00:40:06
Speaker
Oh, no, it's not. It's gone. If you really think about it, right, we've been very flippant and sort of like playing on this on this notion of this is just an average Tuesday, a massive schism opens up under my house. Oh, geez, there goes the dog, womp womp. But if you really get down to it, and you really sort of think about what it must be like to live in a world like this, right? How scary is that?
00:40:26
Speaker
Oh, that is terrifying because this is something we brought up as well in the Living in the Pokémon World episode. We are a children's franchise. You think, oh, it would be bright and colourful and whimsical. No, no, it would be hell on Earth. It would be genuinely hell on Earth.
00:40:42
Speaker
Because, as I said, not only have you got to deal with these bombastic external threats, because you've got Eggman who's constantly threatening you. You can't even go to Sonic Venice without getting terrorized. Imagine you go on holiday and you think, you know what? I'm going to Soliana. I'm going to drink a coffee in the middle of the plaza. This is such a beautiful area. And then all you hear is, it's no use before you get concussed by a flying chair.
00:41:08
Speaker
I mean, hopefully I wouldn't be the one getting the chair thrown at me. I mean, to be fair, I've met me, I understand, but please, no. It's no use. What the hell? But no, like, listen, and that's exactly my point. But then I also feel like in this sort of vein, right, if you were to look at it in a really hyper realistic way, in a very, I don't want to say jaded or cynical way, it would absolutely be a hellscape.
00:41:32
Speaker
especially in that same vein, it's no use, get hit with a chair. Also on the same note, fiery death awaits in the future and probably even sooner. There's just so much looming everywhere. But then I think that's also why people value Sonic so much as a hero, because he's a symbol of better things. And Sonic is like a breath of fresh air in all of the oppression. And that is just something, not just oppression, but oppressive.
00:41:59
Speaker
things and I think that that's why people really like his games and they like what he represents is that he is truest to himself and he hates oppression. His whole thing is freedom and when you're in a world where it seems like anything could go wrong at any time, having someone like that and share that sort of vision in the way of his friends can be a reason to find beauty in things.
00:42:24
Speaker
I mean, that is a good point, but it's still not going to bring back your deposit for your house. Oh, God, no. Like, listen, no, listen, like your mortgage and everything like that permanently fucked. This is the third car you bought this year. Yeah, no, sorry. Your insurance premium is through the fucking roof now. We cannot keep paying for these mad incidents that keep happening.
00:42:41
Speaker
If anything, hopefully, this would encourage a lot of the more modern cities and everything popping up in the wake of things. The rebuilt station square, hopefully, would have more focus on public transportation and not so much cars and personal cars and everything like that. It'd make life so much easier. You know how in real life you get acts of God and things that you can't really claim against because it was just a freak accident and such? Do you think there's a similar clause for an act of Eggman?
00:43:08
Speaker
point, like I was saying earlier, I feel like there'd have to be. Yeah, because you switch on the TV and, as you said, it would be terrifying to watch in real life, but I feel as if you would get to a point where you're just sick of it. In Sonic Adventure 2, you turn on the TV and there's Dr. Eggman saying, I'm going to blow up the moon! And then you look up and you go, what the? Oh yeah, the eclipse cannon is a whole other thing. Good night.
00:43:28
Speaker
But yeah, going back to what I was saying before about Gerald Robotnik, imagine how terrifying that would be. You turn on your TV, there's this guy in front of a firing squad, and one fact about Sonic X, the anime that bases some of the stories on the games, but in their interpretation of that scene, you actually hear the gunshots.
00:43:46
Speaker
So there is the implication that you watch that full video of someone getting executed live on TV. Again, I'm not going to be like, it was a different time. 50 years ago from the Sonic canon, live streaming a public execution by firing squad? Not a good look. Here's the thing. I don't think that it was actually shown then. It was archived. So that was only meant to play when Gerald was going to get his Ultimate Revenge.
00:44:14
Speaker
But I do love how, when they actually do show it to everyone, it comes across like a deranged Twitch stream. Oh, I know, right? Where's like, hey chat, you'll never guess what I am? Oh god, no! I'm a prison island! Hey chat, want to watch me speedrun death? Thank you for the bit, Super Channel!
00:44:34
Speaker
Oh, Professor Gerald Robotnik would make the worst Twitch streamer. But arguably Dr. Eggman would make the best. Oh, he would. Oh, I would watch that 100%. I know Mike Pollock doesn't listen to these.
00:44:46
Speaker
you know what? If he does, we want to see at least one Twitch stream. Sgrewtales is a feedtuber. We need Dr. Eggman as a feedtuber. Well, we do. 110%. I know he technically's cameoed on it, but we need that. That is the saving grace. Can you imagine the hypocrisy of that? It's like, yeah, in the one hand, he blew up the last several houses I've lived in. But damn, is he funny? Yeah, damn is this guy entertaining. 10 bits.
00:45:13
Speaker
know, I'll just drop a sub. Why not? ALICE Oh, why not, yeah. Just a cheeky prime man there. JANET I was kidding. He said, yeah, cheeky spam is on prime. Get in there. ALICE But can I talk about Gerald Robotnik for a minute? JANET Absolutely. ALICE Because I know we've talked about a movie, but we've talked about the tragedy of the character, the fact that he got his granddaughter ripped away from him. Absolutely tragic in the scheme of things. But if you were living in this universe, honestly, you could bet that there would be like an Oscar-worthy movie being made about it. JANET Oh, absolutely. There absolutely would be some sort of media about it.
00:45:40
Speaker
because that even goes back to the old plays of myth and legend and of kings that were written while they were still alive detailing their exploits. It would only be expected that that sort of thing would have some sort of media attraction around it. And I would even wager that there would be people out there who would listen to Gerald's story, do more research about the event, and even take his side and be like, Gerald Robotnik did nothing wrong. Well, this is what I was getting to.
00:46:08
Speaker
So, this is something that we have brought up and Adam and I have A. Well, we have a catchphrase that I feel as if we can't put on a t-shirt because A, Sega would sue us for it and B, it wouldn't be very appropriate, but we often joke with one another when we're talking about Sonic and then we go, oh, praise me to Gerald Robotnik because in the first game he appears in Sonic Adventure 2.
00:46:30
Speaker
As I said, he's a tragic character, you know, he gets his granddaughter ripped away, he goes absolutely insane, he has this mental spiral. It's actually quite a very poignant moment for a game, you know, about a fast blue hedgehog fighting another similar college hedgehog. The fact is, it's quite a tragic and surprising story that you didn't expect, and then of course they say it's the space colony, which they've all been trying to stop from going off, which I
00:46:56
Speaker
again. That would be terrifying watching this massive space station floating above you, ready to blow you up. But of course Henny projects himself and he goes, what's up guys? It's your boy Joe Dabarnik here. Today I'm gonna be crashing my face in the earth. And you know, you see the big lizard coming out of it going, argh. This is my time to shine. Oh, final hazard. What a lad. Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
What an absolute unit. Absolutely. What a trunky boy. That's my boy. No, my boy. Oh God, we've come full circle.
00:47:31
Speaker
So, yeah, in that game he has his arc, no pun intended, he has his arc nicely wrapped up as a character. But then, of course, in Shadow the Hedgehog they decide to revisit Shadow's origin spy saying, oh yeah, LMAO, he is an alien or part alien that Jill Robotnik has worked on, so you like.
00:47:51
Speaker
Right, okay. But then the thing that I have major issue with is how the president seems to think it's okay to revise history because they make this full story that all the eclipse cannon, which for anyone who doesn't know is the massive cannon that can destroy
Chaos Emeralds Discussion
00:48:07
Speaker
the planet. That was created to stop the aliens. So then at the very end of the game when you complete it and you defeat the aliens,
00:48:15
Speaker
President, I kid you not, go watch on YouTube again, but he goes to the other commanding officer, he's a whole other character in himself, and he turns around and says, let us pay homage to Professor Gerald Robotnik. I remember the first time I played that and I was like, no.
00:48:30
Speaker
I was like, no, is this him trying to win the election post-Black Arms? Where he's like, Professor Gerald Robotnik was a hero all along. I'm sorry, did you forget when they tried to murder the entire planet? And I mean, I guess there's an argument to be made that the actions that Gerald took were fueled by grief. The actions that he took beforehand, before Maria's passing,
00:48:51
Speaker
And the precautions he made to safeguard the world against the Black Arms were things to be honored. But then, of course, you know, he sort of rolled back on that when they did what they did. Yeah, when they got a lizard to shove itself up a space station. Listen, I'm still trying to figure out how that happened. I mean, the fact that bio lizard could even use chaos control is just wild.
00:49:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, you've got massive lizards in this universe that can use the Chaos Emerald. So for anyone who doesn't know, that's another thing we haven't touched on. Emerald power. That's a player. Chaos control. Chaos power. So again, for anyone who doesn't know, the Chaos Emeralds are pretty much the deus ex lacuna of the Sonic Hedgehog universe where the characters usually have to collect all seven before the big bad
00:49:39
Speaker
event happens and you know they power up, they save the day. How useful would those emeralds be? Seeing all seriousness, I'm surprised that GUN don't have them under lock and key because I know technically Eggman breaks them out every so often but half of the time they're just lying in the middle of nowhere.
00:49:56
Speaker
Well, it's actually really funny in Sonic X. I thought that was actually really kind of nice. A little bit of world building from Sonic X here. I'm pretty sure that there was an episode or two really where a Chaos Emerald was on display in a museum. And even, no, actually that's exactly it because it was stolen from the museum by Shadow, but people thought it was Sonic. And that was what kickstarted the whole Sonic Adventure 2 arc in Sonic X.
00:50:16
Speaker
But that in itself just sort of implies that there is a little bit of world building around the Chaos Emeralds, and people of course know what the Chaos Emeralds are. The way I look at it, the Chaos Emeralds are gems of power that are the coalescence of just a natural latent energy that exists in the planet.
00:50:32
Speaker
no real name or anything. If you had to equate it to something, you could equate it to the lifestream from Final Fantasy, right? But it just happens that these emeralds, including the master emeralds, are all physical manifestations of that power. And so I feel like that these emeralds, more often than not, usually are under safeguard of some variety. But the fact that they scatter after each use is just one of those things because I feel like I read somewhere once. And again, this could just be me
00:50:59
Speaker
fabricate a source for this information that is just purely conjecture on my part that the Chaos Emeralds are naturally repelled by each other. So when they are brought together and the power that comes from that is ultimately used, they scatter because of the burst of power.
00:51:16
Speaker
So again, I could be wrong in that regard, but the fact that people seem to be aware of the Chaos Emeralds and how some of them can be even on display in a museum, under lock and key, some of them also in some remote location, they have to check out a whole expedition for, it makes sense that like people aren't going to always make the effort to go and find these gems of power for them to just get slung across the planet again.
00:51:39
Speaker
I mean, on the other hand, can you imagine powering your toaster? You're walking along one day and you just get hit on the head with this magical gem. And you're like, you know what? I can't afford my power bill because... Are you plugging it in? You just get a plug. Like, you know the potato clocks? Oh my God! No, this is how you run your PC. I'm going to be the best gamer.
00:52:07
Speaker
That's how you get RGB lights on her. Sonic, why didn't you stop Dr. Eggman? Or some dipshit bloodstream has been hogging all the emeralds. Hey, what's up, chat? I've got unlimited power here. Anyway, let's check on the master emerald. Oh, my God. At this point, I think I'd just be the point is just like, well, at least we know where they're at. Oh, my God. What color would your toe Stephen come out?
00:52:37
Speaker
Yes. Would it just be glowing? Would it be like it's hyper-form? It's just hyper-toast. Hyper-toast. Oh god. Last one way to get a pep in your step in the morning. Do you think that would genuinely defeat Dr. Eggman? And you should start pelting your breakfast in. Yeah, you just start flinging Chaos Power Toast to Eggman.
00:52:58
Speaker
Just beam him on the head. I mean, listen, I like, listen. We've already had primordial entities multiple times, actually. I'm including Dark Gaia in that one and Light Gaia. What does Chaos Toast taste like? Soggy. Do you think? Oh, okay, I'll get it. I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed I didn't get that sooner.
00:53:24
Speaker
That would be disgusting. Imagine you pull it out and it's just like a floppy bit of bread. Would you drop on your sandwich in the swimming pool when you were a kid? Would it blow up your toaster? Probably. What would blow up the toaster first? The burst of energy or the fact there's watery bread in your toaster?
00:53:46
Speaker
world may never know. Welcome to Chatsunami where we ask the real hard-hitting questions today. Chaos toast. But no, honestly, I think there actually could be an argument made for using a Chaos Emerald as a power option. I know technically they do that in the games with obviously Dr. Eggman's creations, but they're like war machines. They're like weapons of war, okay? Like tonight on Chatsunami we discuss could you use Chaos Emeralds as a clean energy source? I mean you could!
00:54:14
Speaker
The big thing you probably could is when you gather them all together, that's when the problem starts. You see, and I think that would be the hardest part about it, right? Is that if you were living in a world of Sonic the Hedgehog and they got to the point where you were using chaos symbols as clean energy, the fact that Dr. Eggman gets a stick up his ass every so often and decides, you know what, I'm gonna try to conquer the whole world. Suddenly, the entire fucking city is offline.
00:54:37
Speaker
imagine that it's like oh thank god we managed to power the mobian orphanage and the eggmans in the background like screw those kids he takes the emerald not the children what's somebody think of the children oh my god poor wee red panda bleeding out in the middle of this office
00:55:01
Speaker
Oh no. Yeah you thought Maria getting shot was the darkest over again in this episode. Well going even further beyond. Plus Ultra. I fucking can't. Don't use Chaos Emeralds as your clean energy source.
00:55:19
Speaker
No, don't. It's not worth it. Can you imagine the arsehat who would use it in their car? So he'd put it in and he'd be like, oh yeah, this gets 100 kilos per hour or whatever. He goes to drive around. You know that turning in Station Square beside where the newspaper stand is? Yeah. It faces towards the beach. So he goes to turn, but he pushes the accelerator on. He's gone. He's like DeLorean himself right into the sunset. Yeah, he's gone.
00:55:46
Speaker
I hate to say it drops the chaos emerald into his engine block instead of his car instead of a supercharger tries to rev the engine shatters reality. But I mean, would that happen though? Imagine you're walking along and somehow you have your bike open or your boot open or something and you know, imagine you get on the train. Is the chaos energy gonna react with the machinery around you? Is it gonna act with the train? Are you gonna get a bullet train in the UK at last?
00:56:12
Speaker
That's the question. No, listen, at this point, you could probably do intercontinental trains. Yeah. That would be wild. Well, the thing is, it would never stop. And I'm not talking like between Europe and Africa or Europe and Asia and that thing. No, I'm talking about from the Americas to fucking Africa. Just as total sang about. Oh, my God.
00:56:32
Speaker
Oh, this universe would be a nightmare to live in, to be honest. The thing is, right? You could look at it as a nightmare, but then you also have to think about the things that you would see that you wouldn't be able to see, if not for such phenomenons like this.
Angel Island and Mobians vs. Real Animals
00:56:45
Speaker
Honestly, I've always thought Angel Island was one of the coolest concepts, just like a floating island somewhere.
00:56:50
Speaker
Oh no, it's so picturesque because I have to say in past episodes, haven't helped my case here, but I am a massive Sonic Adventure fanboy and I think the sets and areas that you explore there are absolutely fantastic. They are so imaginative. As you said, Angel Island is absolutely spectacular. You know, you've got Station Square, you've got the casino. There's a casino in all of them. I feel like there's a problem here.
00:57:16
Speaker
Even in Sonic Adventure, you come across a woman who keeps going to the casino and her son is trying to stop her from gambling all her life savings. Great, so gambling addictions exist in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe. Well that's the thing, you get all the normal bad things of life, right? On top of the larger than life bad things that happen.
00:57:38
Speaker
I mean, here's the thing though, see if you're going to a casino or any betting shop in Sonic the Hedgehog universe, what are you betting on? Because are you betting on the normal things like horses or the tables or things? Or are you betting on the next note to Eggman Attack? Or is Sonic gonna turn blue this time? Is it gonna turn orange green purple? Listen, no, I think, unironically, I think that there is a topic like that somewhere. I think somewhere on the planet they'd be like, okay, place your bets, what's the next disaster gonna be? Round up, round up.
00:58:07
Speaker
Sonic is in Venice. It's like, oh, Sonic's been spotted here. Take your bets. What's going to happen, y'all? At this point, Sonic would be a bit like the Mothman, wouldn't he? A little bit of like a harbinger of doom. If Sonic turns up, something's going down. Oh, my God. Can you imagine that? Oh, no. Right, no. Serious dog, yeah. Imagine you're on holiday. As I said, you go to Chinan or you go to Spagonia or something. In fact, let's go for Spagonia. That's Spagonia. Killer soundtrack.
00:58:34
Speaker
You know, you're sipping your continental coffee, you say, beautiful architecture, beautiful city. And then you turn around and you see someone run by and you go, oh my goodness, it's Sonic the Hedgehog. And then it dawns on you. Oh, fuck it, Sonic the Hedgehog. Holy shit, it's Sonic the Hedgehog. You're bursting into your hotel room. Honey, we need to go. Leave the kids. There's no time. Oh my God, I was so...
00:59:05
Speaker
I mean, what is the hell with that disaster bubble? Barbara, where's the kids? They're by the pool! No time, we gotta go! Mother! Father! Why is the sky going dark? You'll find out real quick, we gotta go! Where's your sister? I think we left her in the hotel. It's okay, we can make another one. Go, go, go!
00:59:27
Speaker
You do not mess around when Sonic the Hedgehog appears. Again, you said about how he's the beacon of hope and everything. No, you're right on that side, but on the other side, he is the fourth man of this world. As very natural as it would be, he would represent two very different things for very different demographics.
00:59:45
Speaker
The pot of gourd and rain that keeps on flying. Exactly. His presence will be like, oh, woohoo, we're saved. And on the other side, it's just like, oh, God, get the children. We got to go. There's no time. There's a nook, man. Honey, that's just a bakery. Don't take our chances, Sandra. Don't take our chances.
01:00:09
Speaker
The others maybe not so much. I feel like if you were to see Tails just walking down the street somewhere, you'd be like, oh cool, it's Tails. This is your little buddy. Or, oh my god, you're Tails! And that sort of thing. You know, you get two very different people. Here's a really weird question for you. Okay. Do you think the chicken industry would suffer because of Eggman? Or do you think it would thrive? Because I feel as if a lot of people are getting PTSD seeing eggs everywhere.
01:00:32
Speaker
You know, and all of his mechs are like egg shaped and egg themed and Sonic doesn't help, you know, his jokes are very, well, let's face it, he's very body shaming. He's like, oh, it's egg head, blah, blah, blah. Is the egg industry safe and Sonic the egg joke? You know what? I don't think I'm qualified to answer that. No comment. No comment. And I don't want to encourage any slander here. Yeah, Sega, if you're listening to this episode, yes.
01:01:02
Speaker
Are eggs safe? Is the egg industry safe in Sonic the Hedgehog? Because I don't think it would be. No, I don't think it would be either, frankly. Let alone something like an ostrich egg, you know? Ostriches are murder chickens anyway. Oh yeah, that is true. And speaking of that, actually, one of the final points I want to bring your attention to is the thing that we've been talking about throughout this. We've been talking about the Mobians and how there's anthropomorphic animals versus animals that didn't quite evolve correctly.
01:01:30
Speaker
and they do try to explain this in some of the extended lore to say oh some creatures develop differently. But I'm sorry, was the god of evolution in this world just a cruel master or what? Because I remember replaying Sonic Heroes and there is a massive crocodile that tries to eat you, and this thing is chonky and it's so realistic. And that's the thing though, why is there a realistic murder alligator versus vector or the kind of cartoony frogs and things?
01:02:00
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. I feel like you could apply the sort of Pluto versus goofy logic here. Well, yeah. Well, that's another thing, because if you go to Spagonia, again, while you're grabbing the children to get out of there, you see there's like real-life elegance there? Yeah. Yeah, you're standing beside them with Sonic the Hedgehog and you're like, one of these things is not like the other. Yeah, and to be completely honest, I don't think that there is a sort of logic to it. There is no way you can apply a logic to it.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, no, if you're talking realistically as a game design and things, I think they just threw it in. As you said, the goofy versus little analogy there, it is definitely that. But see, if you're all living in that world, how would you feel about that? You're looking at a pigeon thinking, is this pigeon going to be carrying a Glock, or am I going to be safe?
01:02:49
Speaker
The thing is, the Mobians have a very distinct appearance, right? There's no getting around like that. That's a Mobian. You're not gonna put Sonic in a hedgehog. Sonic the Hedgehog and a standard hedgehog next to each other and not be able to tell the difference. Well, sorry you say that, but I'm convinced if he had a lineup of Sonic, Shadow and a regular hedgehog, there would be someone on the other side of that glass having a breakdown. They all look the same!
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, go be there. I've got nothing for that. Can't you just arrest them all? No sir. Number one, that's illegal. Number two, where do you think we have the places to hold three hedgehogs? Number three, we don't have handcuffs tight enough for the one on the end. You're free to go. He's like, freedom. And that was the one we needed to worry about the whole time.
01:03:37
Speaker
hedge the hog here. Genuinely, I want to see a no-see like that where it is just a realistic hedgehog that talks but nobody brings it up. Listen, I'm sure it exists out there somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised, yeah. Now I have a feeling I'm just gonna go to Google and see what I can find now because that's just wild. Hedgehog the hedgehog.
01:03:55
Speaker
hedge the hog. But that's the thing though, can you imagine trying to prank someone by gluing, I don't know, gloves on an animal? And then now you're terrified because you're like, is this thing going to spindash me? Or? Qualifications that I have seen so far for Mobians is to have gloves, to be enlarged to a point, and to be upright.
01:04:19
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I've seen my dog walking two legs when she was begging for a treat, so she could easily pass as a Mobian if he grabbed her some gloves. I think you need to lock your doors at night. You might be living with a supervillain. Oh no, I know. You are perfectly aware. Yeah, we have a mutual agreement.
01:04:40
Speaker
Your roommates are the mad scientists. Oh my God, it's Sonic, grab the kids. Live and learn, play slowly in the distance. Oh boy, my favorite song. Oh Christ, my favorite song.
01:04:52
Speaker
Can you imagine them playing that at a wade-in? And I don't mean a real life wade-in because that would be absolutely fantastic playing that at a wade-in, but it's like, is this not the song with a haytruck burned up in the atmosphere? It's like, it's a romantic song about living and learning. I'm pretty sure the haytruck died during this. I was like, no, no, I would have known about it. Gun would have told us. Oh, no, that's a whole other rabbit hole. That's a whole other can of whoopsie daisies. Uh-huh, that is a whole other can of, uh-oh. Oh, no.
01:05:22
Speaker
The thing is as well though. Echidnas as well. I mean, this isn't even going into public transport would be a nightmare because some areas I find others are just straight up look-to-looks and I know game-wise why they look-to-looks and things, but I would not want to go to work in this universe. No, literally. What is the infrastructure? Who designs these? It feels like
01:05:44
Speaker
the mayor's a child that just drew squiggly lines on this thing and went, I want that one. And they went, sure. Sure. Does it lead anywhere? Oh my God. Can you imagine driving to the office? My dear, do you have to go to the office? I'm sorry. I have to go. I have to provide for the children. And as you know, the beginning of the speed highway where it's like driving down the hill. Yeah. You're like the big old bit. It's like, come on, come on. I gotta provide for my family.
01:06:10
Speaker
or you didn't know and you're in not San Francisco just trying to drive to work in the morning and suddenly an eight-year-old fox comes blowing by you in a fucking go-kart. No but that's the thing though it's like you're driving down and you're trying to go over the loop but you have to keep going really fast otherwise you're not making it. You're not making it back to your wife and kids.
01:06:29
Speaker
You're just gonna get bodied by a loop-to-loop for no reason. And speaking of that one, as you said, with the eight-year-old fox, couldn't lie in a go-kart. That road is horrific. There are massive holes that just lead to an abyss below. I'm actually convinced that that's scaffolding above what used to be Station Square, because, you know, you fall down and it's all water underneath. Hold on a second.
01:06:53
Speaker
Hold up. Hold up. I wasn't ready for that one. Because here's the thing. Here's the thing. I always assumed, right? I always assumed the city escape and radical highway were all parts of Station Square. I always just thought it was like a different neighborhood of Station Square that wasn't affected by what happened. Because, you know, you have these major metropolis cities, right, that are like two or three cities all blended into one urban hellscape, right? So I figured it was like, oh, my God. Well, listen, that just blew my mind wide open. And I'm like, I'm driving over dead people.
01:07:22
Speaker
Just see the body's floating in the background, you're like, ah, the things I do for my father.
01:07:27
Speaker
to afford to go to Soleanna for the year. That's the part where it's like, don't look over the railings, don't look over the railings. You see the spires of the ruined city below sticking out of the water. What a laugh at as well. Obviously not that, that's horrific, but what a laugh at as well was when you play through Sonic Adventure 2 for the Dark Mode, they found out that Tails has one of the Chaos Emeralds, and they got awarded it because he saved Station Square from Eggman. I
01:07:53
Speaker
It was as if they made a bet and they had to commit to it because they were going to give it to them, but then Station Square was destroyed and it's as if they're like, well, shit. And you see, that's exactly my point. That's why I think that Sonic Adventure 2, all the urban areas still takes place in Station Square, just a different place in Station Square. Maybe Station Square post-rebuild or in a different borough, you know? Station adjacent, as it were. Station adjacent! On Earth adjacent! Yeah.
01:08:20
Speaker
As we said, this world is absolutely crazy. I mean, we've not even gone into how there's actual ghosts in this universe as well. We're actual ghosts in this universe next. Next question. We're used to that. There's ghosts. There are echidnas who, thanks to a certain person whose name rhymes with henchmen-ers, we no longer have echidnas. So thanks to the henchmen-ers organization,
01:08:46
Speaker
of calling echidnas. I've only got one of them now. So if you see an echidna, that is rare. You're like, oh my god, Andy's wearing boxing gloves, which is even weirder. But I mean, you've got robots, which just fly around.
Living in Sonic's Chaotic Universe
01:08:59
Speaker
That is just very common. You've got skateboarding. You've got magical genies. And I'm not even talking about Sonic and the Secret Rings. I'm talking about Sonic Riders, where it's canon.
01:09:10
Speaker
Oh, damn, you're right. I forgot about that. Jesus. Even if someone's about to push up their glasses and go, actually, it's not canon. No, no, no. I'm not talking about the Storybook series. That can be uncannon as you like. Yeah, there's genies. The Storybook series is fan fiction.
01:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, you can say that's fanfiction, but for the love of gods, there's robots, there's aliens, there's genies, there are mythical monsters. In terms of storytelling in an actual game, it's really cool because obviously we are Sonic fans, we love the games, we love the stories, but if you are watching this as, or rather if you are living through this as a regular Joe, a normal person, again,
01:09:51
Speaker
Hell on Earth. This would 100% be Hell on Earth. Oh, you are 100% on the struggle bus. You are going to be living through... One way ticket to Peter Town. Listen, we joke about living through historical moments on the daily. Well up. I think this would mess me up, to be honest.
01:10:08
Speaker
likewise. Because in Scotland, as you know, we've got the Highlands and you can obviously walk through them. Imagine being in the Sonic universe in the timeline of Sonic CD, turning around and seeing a giant planet just chained into the Highlands.
01:10:24
Speaker
is going on here. You can't even get peace in the countryside or any rural places because again, Dr. Eggman goes all over the world and Sonic Unleashed, he tampers with time and Sonic Generations and of course Sonic 06 when he has four nipples, the bind nipple if you will, or quad nipple, whatever you want to call it.
01:10:43
Speaker
You've got a strange, strange world here that I think, see if you were your OC, if you were a Mobian, then I think you might be relatively alright because they seem to be a lot sturdier. But if you're a human, you're out of here. The thing is, I think another thing that's really important to remember when it comes to that is that you're an individual. You know, you're gonna really be the most affected by the things that's happening to you that's right in front of you.
01:11:08
Speaker
We sort of came up with this from a standpoint of that we were going to be present in front row seat for everything. But I think it really just depends on where you're at in the series. And if you keep repeatedly getting displaced, you keep being that poor son of a bitch that keeps getting displaced to the next place, it's getting ready to go absolutely belly up. But can you imagine that being such an arrogant twat where you're like, oh, those poor people went station square. Glad I bought a penthouse in Westopolis.
01:11:36
Speaker
Oh, listen, that would be rough. Like, that's rough, buddy. Yeah. 2005 rocks around. You've not got a paint house. In fact, you've not got a city. I'm sure I'll be fine. What's that green light in there? Oh, listen, you know what? If I had a nickel for every time the eclipse cannon has fired, I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's kind of strange and very worrying that it's happened twice. This was a cannon event, Shadow.
01:12:03
Speaker
the tagline, if you were a human in the Sonic the Hedgehog universe, the tagline would be, welcome to the Sonic the Hedgehog universe, grab your kids and run. Don't look back, run.
01:12:16
Speaker
Yeah, just keep running. Roll into a ball if you think it'll help. But for the love of God, just get out of every major city. Welcome to the Sonic universe. Pray you're a Mobian. Listen, if Truck Coon comes for me tomorrow and yeets me into Isakai's me into the Sonic world, I'm going to pray up and down, left and right to whatever God will listen to me that I'm gonna be a Mobian. Well here's the question for you. Have you ever seen a Mobian get shot in the face? Have you ever seen a human get shot in the face in the Sonic hedgehog universe? True. Mobian's what? Humanity's hero! Mobian's have plot armour!
01:12:45
Speaker
Exactly. Technically they got turned into zombies, but that's a whole other thing in the comics. I mean, that's the only bad thing. I mean, I say the only bad thing, that and get turned into giant robots. I think that one thing that is sort of an important distinction to make, to my knowledge, even though Ian Flynn wrote Sonic Frontiers and he sort of made the entirety of all the games canon, I don't think that there was actually any crossover between the events of the games and the events of the comics. Comic continuities and the game continuities are still separate.
01:13:14
Speaker
Actually, I don't know if Sonic mentions some of the characters from the comic from Sonic Frontier. I'll have to go back and play it again, but I don't recall him doing so. Apparently in the first island, totally not looking us up, this is completely in my memory. On the first island, he name drops one of the characters called Angle the Lemur, which is a comic exclusive character. Really? I don't remember that. When did he name drop her? So it says it's on the
01:13:41
Speaker
I'll have to go back and actually like play the game again because I need to anyway because I haven't done the chapter three update they did to spoiler alert I haven't done the chapter three update they did to the end fight so yeah I haven't completed either for very different frustrating reasons yeah that is a story for another day as well but this world is absolutely crazy before we wrap up is there anything else you want to touch on I think that like I said earlier I think that if you live in a world that has so much going on in it
01:14:11
Speaker
and such truly sort of catastrophic things happening, it seems like every other day. Well, and the fact is, right, we sort of painted as, oh, it's every other day. But in reality, yeah, Sonic doesn't age, but we've had years for this take place. So much could have happened over a span of years. And I think that I can't help but sort of relate it to the world we live in right now, you know, where there is just so many scary things happening.
01:14:38
Speaker
at once that could change the flow of how we look and interact with the world. That I feel like that if you were to put me as I am right now in the world of Sonic the Hedgehog, I don't think that I'd be able to look at it any differently than I do right now. Like yeah, you can absolutely acknowledge the fact that the world is really scary and some truly batshit things happen, but there are also some parts of the world that are just so wondrous.
01:15:03
Speaker
And there are so many things that you can experience in a world like that that you wouldn't be able to experience anywhere else. And I think that that sort of uniqueness when it comes to the world of Sonic the Hedgehog, for yeah, for all of the destruction and chaos that can happen, there is still some true beauty left in it. And I think that that's what's so important.
01:15:22
Speaker
And that's what Sonic stands to fight for. And I think that you have to look at it from that perspective as well to be like, there's a reason that you're here. There's still a reason that you're here. And even if you can't do anything yourself to change the world, you can still find a place to live in it. I mean, that's a lovely way to end the episode, I think. Couldn't have said it better myself. I was actually just going to end on, don't get comfortable.
01:15:44
Speaker
No, I had to go and ruin it. Because I was going to mention it earlier about things like, what kind of jobs would you get in things? But to be honest, as you said, there's a somewhat overlap between what you could do in this universe versus what you could do in our world, essentially. You can do exactly the same things. You can be a cook, you can be an adventurer, an archaeologist, train driver, you can be anything.
01:16:08
Speaker
can even be a vtuber. You can be a vtuber if you want to. Exactly, exactly. You can definitely do whatever you do here, but all the tea is A, you're gonna get paid on rings and B, don't get too comfortable because if the apocalyptic event of the week or rather the year does appear, as I said, have a contingency plan. Have a house in the mystic ruins or something. Listen, invest heavily in life insurance and home insurance if you do decide to buy a home. In fact, I wouldn't even buy a home. I would just rent
01:16:36
Speaker
You know that line in Shaun of the Dead where it's like, what's the plan? OK, we'll just go to the Mystic Ruins and wait for all this to blow over. That's exactly it. That is my plan. That is my plan, just in case anything goes down. We're either going to the Mystic Ruins or one of the temples of Gyan, we're just going to wait for this whole thing to blow over. Just with a cup of tea, a chili dog, and that'll be it. But on that note, thank you so, so much for coming back on and yet discussing Sordic once again.
01:17:03
Speaker
Well, no, I'm happy to. And honestly, I'm happy to be that Sonic person. I could talk about it all day. Before we wrap up and let these people recover from what they've just heard about the Sonic the Hedgehog universe, where can these lovely listeners listen to your
Guest Content Promotion and Closing
01:17:18
Speaker
content? Alright, so if you want to find me, the most reliable place to find me is of course Twitch.tv at Wisteria Moth. And I'm on a bit of a hiatus at the moment because I'm doing another revamp on my channel and just really sort of getting my head back on straight.
01:17:31
Speaker
But I'm still quite active on my Discord server and I'm still posting every so often on my Twitter. But I do have my old VODs still, not so much old VOD, but VODs, but I do have past streams still up on my channel from start to finish. So if you want to watch some of those, you're more than welcome to. You can find them on Twitch.
01:17:46
Speaker
you want to check out more episodes from ourselves talking about Sonic of course and the fantastic interview that I think I did that two years ago with you when I interviewed you about Twitch. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Yeah which was an absolutely fantastic episode but at the same time I just can't believe that much time has passed. I know it's wild like what happened and here I am two years later doing another revamp I mean come on.
01:18:14
Speaker
Ring on the new rebound. At this point it's just kind of like changing coats of paint, depending on the day, isn't it? Yeah, if you want to catch more episodes from ourselves, as well as any extra Sonic content, or really just in general, you can check us out at our website, Chatsanami.com. I also want to thank our amazing handle room patrons, Robotic Battle Toesters and Sonya. Thank you so, so much for supporting the show and if
01:18:40
Speaker
you want to get more exclusive content from there you can sign up at patreon.com forward slash chat tsunami but until next time stay safe stay awesome and most importantly whatever you do don't buy property in station square