Transcript
Speaker: This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Fullpool Wines, a Seattle -based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Fullpool was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker: Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye -bye! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup winners! And Portland can't say he's cheating! Here comes Rudy Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle! They have climbed the mountain!
Speaker: And now our masters of all that they survey. Michael Adero leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region. Seattle Sounders is confused. Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. Is that what you young people call twerking? How does this one feel? This feels fucking awesome. What a win. What a win. This is Seattle Sounders, bro.
Speaker: the bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle and the hills the greenest green in Seattle like a beautiful child growing up
Speaker: Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes, sponsored by Full Pool Wines and Watson's Counter. I am Jeremiah O 'Shan, joining me today to preview the St. Louis City match this weekend, which I don't think anyone saw this coming, is a top of the table clash. The winner is going to be in first place after seven weeks in the MLS season. Matt Baker of Fly Over Footy, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker: Yeah, so how big, let's just start there. This has to be, like as much as the outside observers are surprised by this, like, and I know there's a lot made of like, oh, no one believed in this, but did anyone really think that the inside covering the team, did you really foresee being at this point in the season and being like, oh yeah, we're 5 -1 and 1, we have one of the best records in MLS, we're sitting on top of the Western Conference.
Speaker: I got to be honest and say, no, as much as you want to believe in your own team and be a Homer, any, any semblance of realism in here, you can't believe that it's actually at this point. And when we were five and oh, and starting to look ahead to pan, we set that all time record where sporting held it, you start to think of.
Speaker: This really isn't possible. Like this has to be a dream, right? And even though the way that our organization has built itself from the academy to city two to city, we've had success at each level, but record setting, record breaking player and team success through five matches was.
Speaker: Kind of a dream and it was almost a pinch me. Is this really happening? Even though we had our first loss, it still seems like we're living that dream where you can, you can see a lot of good things happening in a loss. And to your point, it's hard to believe that a team like a historic team, like your Seattle Sounders, we're in that same conversation, just six matches in.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, obviously the Sounders had the record for the best start in an expansion season. They went three and oh, you guys blew that away. And to go five and oh, and you were only two wins away from tying Sporting Kansas City, which would have been the longest win streak to start a season ever at seven games. I had selfishly kind of been looking like, oh, it'd be kind of fun if they come in here six and oh, and we get to kind of play a part in that. But we'll put that aside for now.
Speaker: But this is, was there a game where you started to think like, okay, this is not, because when you're opener, that's happened a million times in expansion history. For whatever reason, no one knows what to expect, blah, blah, blah, blah, you can write it off pretty easily. Maybe you win the second game and it's still a lot of the same pundits, you've heard a lot of the same stuff like, all right, it's a good start, but let's get real.
Speaker: But what was the point for you where you're like, no, this is this is or wasn't earlier than that way? I mean, what was there a point in those first two games where you're like, no, this is this feels different?
Speaker: Well, the first game, the first game felt different. I was able to go down to Austin for that first matchup. And for Austin themselves, having the stadium and the fan base that they did, it felt like a big deal going down there. Not just because it was our team's first match, but that, that atmosphere really felt world -class. It felt like we'd finally arrived and going into it, talking to their fans, they would ask us, how do you think you're going to do? And kind of tongue in cheek and you couldn't answer. Oh, we think we're going to stop you. We just want to compete. It was a happy to be here moment. Right. It was.
Speaker: It was, we would, we just want to be here. We want to see some semblance of competition had no inkling of beating them. Tie would have been, would have been great. And it was, it wasn't just the fact that we won. We went down to Austin and one, it was the way that game progressed. And we saw the come from behind. We saw the, the never give up type of an attitude. It started to create that underdog narrative in a real sense. So you can start to see the, the.
Speaker: Product on the field match some of the hype of nobody believes in us. We can conquer the world type thing. And we did it in that first match from a team that Austin was second best in the West last year. So this isn't just going to an away match and winning our first first game. This is beating one of the best teams from last year. And I think it's at that point we didn't, we didn't have any idea of the streak, but it's at that point that started to think this team might be for real.
Speaker: Has there been anything and so they've progressed from there? You know, it wasn't like like you said, there was a come from behind win Maybe it was it was a little scrappy of a win, but you've had some games since then where? City has been absolutely dominant and has taken the game to the opponent even in this loss last week I think you could very easily argue that you were better than Minnesota United and Minnesota United had to come in and I wouldn't say they totally throughout their game plan, but they were very much
Speaker: like absorbing pressure and not being the opposite of the aggressor, I guess, whatever term that is. And so even in a loss that you were still able to sort of play your game and dictate had to be considered a pretty positive sign.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the term low block more than I did in the week leading up to Minnesota. But one of the more fun things in the first five or six games is how different of a style each of our opponents had. And you can, you can look at where they sit at the table all you want, but each, each team we played had a different face, whether it was a similar pressing style, whether it was counter pressing, whether it was the low block.
Speaker: Whether it was possession based. So we've gotten a little different of a matchup each time, but the most consistent thing, even sort of in the, in the Minnesota match is just how St. Louis sticks to their style of play, regardless of what their opponent does. They find a way to win using their own style.
Speaker: And so seeing how they've matched up against teams that have vastly different looks has offered a real insight into the versatility that our team can offer. And it's versatility in the formations, it's versatility in personnel, because we've seen eight different goal scores from St. Louis from all over the field. We've seen at least two or three different formations.
Speaker: And every single time we roll them out, we're able to find some measure of success with that in at minimum creating chances. So it's really cool to see how we're able to mix and match some of our players, plugging certain people in different spots, looking at different formations, different ways we can attack and create chances in and around the box.
Speaker: and different ways that we can push the ball up the field. So the types of opponents that we played from Austin to Charlotte, Portland, San Jose, and Minnesota, those types of teams have given us really an opportunity to provide different looks. And that's a unique thing I think we've been able to do at the beginning of the season.
Speaker: Yeah, so you talk about some of the performances that St. Louis has had, and I'll tell you, the one that sort of impressed me the most, just because of what it sort of said about the legitimacy, I guess, of this team was, you know, RSL had two weeks to prepare for St. Louis. I know RSL has obviously been bad, they've had some troubles, but this is still a, usually have been a well -coached team, it has some talented players.
Speaker: two weeks to prepare at altitude in weather. And not only did you beat RSL, but you smashed RSL.
Speaker: To me, just a real sort of like, no, this team is for real. This is not just some flash in the pan. But from your perspective, what do you think St. Louis is doing? How would you define the foundation of their success?
Speaker: Well, I think it's twofold in my eyes. So RSL was very interesting in the altitude piece, first of all. So that, that was a theme and a storyline we were kind of talking about before that match. And the way we were able to handle that successfully is almost a larger story in the sense of, I alluded earlier to the fact that when St. Louis city started, they started from scratch from the ground up and that ground up was from the Academy to the city two team to the first team.
Speaker: And the reason that progression is important is last year with City 2, we traveled to Seattle. We traveled to Portland, Salt Lake, all these different places to gain experience, not just for our players on the field, but our staff was able to understand the travel logistics. They were able to understand the fitness, what works when you're going in and out. And so we were tracking how and when our club was traveling. And it seems like a minor detail.
Speaker: But our head coach Bradley Carnell was very specific that he traveled the team in as late as possible and got them out as quickly as possible so that the effects of the altitude would be minimized. That played into our ability to have fitness and stamina into the second half.
Speaker: And that game was kind of a stalemate in the first half. Nobody really broke through. We didn't create many chances, but in that second half, as soon as we were able to change up our formation just a little bit and have that additional stamina going into it and keep that, we were able to score four goals in 30 minutes. That in and of itself tells, it tells of the confidence that this team has in themselves to come out strong. It tells of.
Speaker: When you when you're able to score a goal or two that you're not letting up. There's no reason for this team to fall back or change any of their their formations or the way that they have their strategy because there is a certain game flow occurring.
Speaker: You know there's there's no need to drop back. There's no need to stop the press that continued past that fourth goal. And so the the ability for Saint Louis to continue to work on their system and style of play that got them the success in the first place through the full 90 minutes is a testament to.
Speaker: they're not going to allow the game flow or the team they're playing to impact what they're doing. And they're leveraging guys like their fullbacks, Johnny Nelson and Jake Nowinski, the midfield of Edward Leuven to be that engine and that playmaker in the middle to drive the game down the wings, to drive the creativity that they're facilitating in their final third. Because the game plan for St. Louis City in this game against RSL and in others tends to look at two thirds of the field one way and the final third another.
Speaker: So they're fullbacks are those more traditional pressing fullbacks where they push forward on on one side or the other so they might drop and i think i've read you guys do something similar where you you drop one full back back and you push on one side we try to do something similar. And that pushes about two thirds of the field up.
Speaker: Our final third tends to be a little more fluid, for lack of a better term, a little more creative. So you might have a right midfielder playing on the left side in certain times, just based on where the flow of the game dictates. It's that creativity that they allow to occur and that in and of itself provides.
Speaker: It just provides a whole lot of options for St. Louis, and we've seen that in every single game. It is definitely what has, I would say unlocked, uh, Joe Klaus as our number nine, his ability to be free flowing playmaking and goal scoring. And he scored two against RSL. And that was exactly how he was able to do that by being free in that final third.
Speaker: So a lot has been made over the passes that have gone directly to St. Louis attackers, essentially in this press, but that does sort of like miss the forest through the trees, which is there's a lot of goals being scored in a lot of different ways.
Speaker: Well, but a lot of them are through the press one way or the other, right? And this press has been really effective. I don't know, where do you come down on that aspect of it that there's been some own goals, there's been some pressure goals? I mean, is that all sort of a product of the system or is there something else going on here?
Speaker: I've been a big proponent that is a product of the system and the way that we're able to cause those back passes is not new to MLS. It's not like we're the first team to press in a team's defensive third. It's not like we're the first team to put that pressure on in general, but the way that you hear our players and our coaching staff talk about what they're doing is very.
Speaker: targeted and specific to certain moments and certain players in the game. And when you're able to do that, press the way we are, it's not a one player pressing to where the ball is or looking at a specific player. It is a team -wide press to look at where the ball is and where the ball's going. Uh, Bradley Cornell, our coach talks about push points and seeing when and where you're, you make the best progress in pushing forward. So those, those back passes that we've been intercepting, you'll notice every single time there's pressure in the face of whoever the ball handler is.
Speaker: and Jean Klaus or Jared Stroud have positioned themselves either behind or in the way of, or just out of reach from where that next closest defender is going to receive the ball. It's very targeted. So they're intentionally pushing players certain ways so that they have more or less one or very few options in where to pass. And that additional attacker is positioning himself in the right spot to be able to make a play on that. And I asked Jean Klaus a couple of weeks ago
Speaker: How does he find himself in that position? He seems to be in the right place at the right time. What's the, is there a strategy of philosophy? And he gives full credit to the other players. He's just putting himself in a position to cut off certain other players in his zone. And it's, it's the other players on our team, whether it's our full backs or our other midfielders that when they put pressure on them, they know where Klaus is. And so it's this understanding of where the other players are on the field that allows them to push in the certain ways. And so.
Speaker: It's not luck to me that we're pulling it off. It's by design that we're forcing the pressure. Now, there is a level of it's on the other team to absorb that and to make smart choices in where they're going to pass to break free of that. And now that we've shown that we can do this three different times, you may see it less as teams are understanding what we're trying to do.
Speaker: But there's also the key of you have to finish those. These aren't, these aren't gimme goals. Joe Klaus. Yes. He's, he's stealing the ball in the, our attacking third, but he's not being given a clean empty net. He's, he's facing that defender who he stole the ball from and he's facing the keeper who's either coming out or in his face. So there's, there's multiple things going on here that I do think our team doesn't get enough credit for, um, either in able ability to take the ball or the ability to finish.
Speaker: One of the other things that struck me as differentiating Citi from previous MLS expansion teams is that they formally launched a lower division team sort of as a runway into the first thing that it wasn't just, you know, like we've seen lots of the sounders had a USL team and there were
Speaker: plenty of other, you know, Cincinnati had a U .S .L. team. We don't have to go back over the list of all the teams that have had iterations before MLS, but the build seemed to be a little bit different in St. Louis, where they actually were building an MLS roster specifically
Speaker: components of an mls roster specifically on their next pro team and it had the same head coach and they had you know it was all designed explicitly around moving up it wasn't a team that just happened to be promoted even if there was a lot of the bones from those previous teams this was really the first like the real expansion year was last year.
Speaker: Yeah. And that was one of the most fun things to follow about this club. I mentioned you started with the academy and then the two team, the way the two team was built last year was building that, that second team to, to field a team in, in concurrence with the internationals that we're bringing over for MLS. And so guys like Selma Pedro, who hasn't even seen the field yet, uh, Joao Klaus, Roman Berkey, uh, Rasmus, all, uh, Ysaak Jensen, Tomas Ostrok, all Edward Louvin, all of those guys were signed at the beginning of 2022.
Speaker: And with the explicit idea, like you said, of bringing them in as soon as they were available after July 1st, 2022. And so it hit a whole lot of boxes. So while City 2 is happening almost separately from those MLS internationals coming, you have the roster set up of some experienced U .S .L. Championship guys like a Josh Dolling and like an Ezra Armstrong.
Speaker: But you also have some Academy guys coming up. So there are, there's a lot of things happening all at once. You have the two team experienced players. You have Academy players coming up like Miguel Perez, like Kayden Glover, both signed his homegrown for St. Louis city who are getting that experience and actually able to see fruit being born of that Academy to city to structure and then eventually city.
Speaker: But alongside that you have the benefit of all of these MLS internationals who by and large for other clubs would have needed to wait until January training camp to come in. When you do that, you don't get acclimated to the United States in general. You don't understand the culture. You don't have a house. You don't, you don't know where to eat all those things that plays into a player psyche. We were able in St. Louis to for most of these internationals to get that taken care of last summer.
Speaker: And that's not even taking into account getting them on the field in the system, in training, learning what they're going to be doing in MLS last year as well. You put all those things together and that it has to be directly a component of the early success that we've had. Because when we finished city two last year, we finished the Western conference champions, it was a different.
Speaker: It's different mold, different make than even Tacoma Defiance, who was right there as, as a more standard, uh, to a reserve team trying to build and provide minutes for some of the other roster players. We were able to, to push things forward in the builds. We finished city to almost as the jumping on point to city highly unique. And I think I would like to think that if, if MLS is going to expand if and when, right, then this might be a model that other teams want to pursue.
Speaker: Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I would think that any expansion team from here forward would be crazy, frankly, not to follow that blueprint because it just makes so much sense. Whether or not you can literally field your roster in the MLS Next Pro, you can field parts of your roster and you can get a lot of logistics, you can get a coach in, you can do all these things that make
Speaker: that make the expansion season so much harder than it has to be just by gaining familiarity. And I would imagine that it also helps in terms of marketing because everyone is getting a part of this, which sort of brings me to my next point. Cities seems to have shown up in St. Louis in a way that we don't always see where it, at least from the outside, it feels like
Speaker: there's there there. It's not just game day and it's not just inside the stadium. There's something else going on here. Yeah. And there's a, there's a lot that feeds into that. So there's the historical component of soccer in St. Louis and every, every, every big city of soccer in America has their own story to tell. St. Louis has just happens to go back to the late 19th century where you have some of the, some of the, the Catholic teams in St. Louis playing some of the youth teams that start to become professional early on in the history of soccer in America.
Speaker: We have the St. Louis soccer league that was there in the early 20th century. We have the us open cup champions from various teams that call St. Louis home. We have the national team history that we all know of with the 1950 world cup team, the numerous national team players, most recently, Josh, Sergeant Tim Reem. So all of that plays into this cultural effect of soccer, where people are growing up and they're loving it. It's part of who they are and who their family is. But up until, up until St. Louis city, especially with regards to MLS, there's kind of been a cap.
Speaker: and no pun intended with the national team, but that's kind of where it's been. It's been developed players. We look to the cream of the crop to go to the national team or the cream of the crop to go to other MLS teams. There hasn't been that that ability to cap that talent in Saint Louis. And so all of this history, all of this passion that exists in these other collegiate youth lower division pro teams has kind of come to fruition with everything Saint Louis City has been able to offer. And it's not just the players on the field because that's not what
Speaker: That's not what caused the headlines and the fervor initially the sixty thousand season tickets deposits that went through that was without having really anybody have knowledge of the players on the field it was the concept of major league soccer in saint louis the concept of the city park facility the stadium all of the structures that exist now is the promise of
Speaker: that that typical urban revitalization that you like to hear touted all the time. We've seen that come to fruition in a really special way in St. Louis, this entire downtown district that City Park is a part of, which is is right down Market Street in St. Louis from the arch from Busch Stadium Enterprise Center that Cardinals and Blues call home.
Speaker: All of this is growing and spurring growth of bars and restaurants and hotels in the area. So it's a, it's a real community thing in St. Louis that we're seeing tangible results in. It's not just marketing speak of St. Louis has this history and we're riding on our laurels. It's the history is here and now we're making new history and it's succeeding in exciting and drawing in a whole lot of eyes and people who really may not have shown up to some of the lower league teams.
Speaker: just by one reason or another but they're all showing up now and that excitement doesn't seem to be waning at all.
Speaker: Yeah, and this is a good part. I'm sure a lot of our listeners right now are looking at their calendar trying to figure out when the Sounders go to St. Louis. And just so everyone knows, it's the decision day game, last game of the season. So that should be interesting. If people are looking for an excuse to go to St. Louis, that might be a good one. And it seems like an atmosphere that would be worth taking in for any soccer fan, frankly.
Speaker: But it's been it's been amazing to see what's going on there. It's been exciting, I think, from the outside and not the least of which there is some sounders connections to St. Louis soccer. Both Brian Spencer played actually pretty significant part of his professional career at indoor soccer in St. Louis. And Preckie, if I remember correctly, was a coach in St. Louis as well, right? Infamous head coach of St. Louis FC. Yes.
Speaker: And so what was the, what would you say infamous head coach? I feel like I remember things going on around there. What's the story? What was the Preckie story of his time at St. Louis? We were so excited as a St. Louis FC fan. So excited to get Preckie. You've got all of his credentials and laurels. He's a successful assistant coach. Everybody loves him as a player, right? Comes into St. Louis and he's going to be the new head coach after a couple of years of existence with promises of growing this team, taking it to the next level.
Speaker: And those promises were just never realized. And so I think he's, he was in St. Louis from a head coaching perspective is more a victim of expectations than anything else. And there were some, there were some run -ins with, uh, with people who wanted him to, to have more success. And you know how fans are the, there was some preppy out signs that started popping up there at the end of his tenure.
Speaker: But but I don't think that could take away from anybody locally's love for him as a player. It's just that there are some sour grapes when it comes to his managerial career here in St. Louis. Yeah, if I remember correctly, didn't have the best record. But you know, I've only talked to him a few times, but he's an interesting character, as you as you probably know. Yes, he has a very distinct kind of style. He has sort of this mysteriousness about him that I think his personality sort of like
Speaker: builds into. And he has, because like you said, he has this, this playing career, that when you look at it on paper, it's almost hard to believe. And then he also has a managerial career that is like something out of a novel, in that it's like it goes, it's like mistake, like it goes, like at one point, he was, you know, he was going from, you know, he was, he was a Toronto FC coach, he was the chiefest coach, which at the time were very sort of like, weird jobs in themselves. And then all of a sudden, he was going to be going to England to coach
Speaker: I don't remember, I guess Portsmouth. And it was just like, one day, like, wait, wait, Precky is going to. All over the place. Yeah. It's just all over the place. And so, and then all, and it was kind of the same thing when it was like, he was announced as an assistant with the sounders. It was like.
Speaker: What? Wrecky is going to be an assistant with the Sounders. And this was, and weirdly, this has been his most stable. I think this has been his longest, the place has ever been the longest. Cause that was in, must've been 2018 that he joined the team. And, and it turns out, oh yeah, his wife is from here and he actually, like he, we knew he played in Tacoma, but he was like long time friends with Brian Schmetzer and.
Speaker: on and on and on and it started to make sense. But he is an interesting character. And I just think it's great that Seattle and St. Louis sort of have these like little shared bits of history. Yeah, I think he came to you guys right after St. Louis FC. And so we were watching him go over, watching him have the success as an assistant on your staff and seeing why couldn't he have done that as head coach in our system at the time. So it was one of those
Speaker: For someone who has had as much success, I do think he enjoys being in the background. It's funny because he seems happy to talk to the press whenever we want to talk to him, but it happens a couple times a year. He's not giving weekly press conferences or anything. I get the sense that he doesn't really enjoy that part of the job.
Speaker: That lines up with what I remember of him as head coach here. It wasn't a very open or willingness to, to speak to fans. I mean, let alone media. So he would perform the obligations and it was quick and Kurt and he was moving on.
Speaker: Well, Matt, thank you so much for doing this. There was a whole other list of things that I thought would be worth getting into, but they weren't ultimately worth getting into because there was so much more real interesting stuff to talk about. And I appreciate you giving us some insight into this team, which I think is legitimately one of the most fascinating launches in MLS history. I think it is a great story just because St. Louis has been
Speaker: a part of American soccer for so long. And it's great to see the success that you're having. And I just hope it goes horribly for you on Saturday.
Speaker: I appreciate it all, but that last part, and I'll tell you one of the most interesting things so far in talking to you and, and watching all these other matches is these initial times we get to play all these teams. So there's, there's nothing we have to go off of other than how has Seattle performed against other teams? We have no history. So it's exciting. It's kind of, it's a unique opportunity and I'm just eating it all up.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I think it is absolutely one of the things that makes MLS interesting is that you never feel like you know everyone, even if you feel like you know most everyone. But there's always something new around the corner. But Matt Baker, flyover footy, anything else that anywhere else people can either find you or find your work.
Speaker: Oh, they can find me online way too often. Uh, at Matt Baker STL is my handle on pretty much everything. And then fly over footy. Uh, we're getting ready to start up twice a week pods doing previews and recaps. And, uh, we just got a look, a deal with a local radio show in St. Louis. So we're pretty excited about that. Uh, kind of shows the growth of soccer and the excitement that's happening in St. Louis and look forward to playing you twice this year and talking to you more.
Speaker: Yeah, and I if I all fingers crossed, maybe I'll even get out to St. Louis and and be there for the first time in oh, 30 years. So it would be it would be I'm very intrigued by by seeing this in person and getting to see all what's going on there. But Matt Baker, thank you so much for joining us. I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Nos Adietes. We will catch you next time.
Speaker: Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Your power is turning our darkness to dawn Roll On, Columbia Roll On
Speaker: We love you. Let's win another one!
