Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Nos Audietis, Episode 323: Raúl Ruidíaz has Covid
61 Plays5 years ago
Raúl Ruidíaz caught COVID-19 while on international duty with Peru. Jeremiah and Aaron would rather FIFA had canceled the window.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fulpel's unique writing style is applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books.
Hosts Introduce and Reflect on Game
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. What? Hey, Ocean! Let's go! Jordan Morris getting in behind Florian Youngford. Jordan Morris! Scores!
00:00:50
Speaker
And how's this for a save from Steph and Fry? Here comes Roy Deers from the middle to crowd it to Seattle. What do the Tigers dream of? They take a little Tigers in. It's the Sounders and an S-Com. I feel a lot better than Bob.
00:01:18
Speaker
The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills, the greenest green in Seattle. Like a beautiful child growing up. Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Full Bowl Wines. This is episode 323, and we're recording on Wednesday, October 14th, 2020. I'm your host, Jeremiah O'Shan. Joining me as usual is Aaron Campo and Lickit P.
Impact of COVID-19 on Players
00:01:48
Speaker
been an interesting week around these parts. On the field, the Sounders played well, but lost three to one to LAFC. And we will definitely get to that. But it's been a bit more of a roller coaster ride off the field, as we found out that Raul Rui Diaz has tested positive for COVID-19 and could theoretically miss as much as the rest of the regular season. There was also a seemingly unrelated rumor about the Sounders inquiring about the availability of former Orlando City striker Kyle Larin and some rumblings of a relaunched MLS reserve league.
00:02:16
Speaker
Let's start with arguably the most important of those items, Aaron, and that really is a positive COVID test.
00:02:24
Speaker
How upset do you think we should be about FIFA not canceling this round of games? Or what's your overall feeling about that situation? I think that having sports at all right now is questionable. I think that a lot of leagues have figured out how to do it relatively safely. I think MLS has done a decent job. I think accepting that things like the Rapids are going to happen
00:02:53
Speaker
I think that I think that there's a case to be made that the risks out or the benefits out rid of risks in that case. I think that asking players to travel to multiple different countries to expose themselves to an entirely new group of people, to expose themselves to multiple airports, all of the things that go along with travel
00:03:20
Speaker
internationally, especially it, you know, they're, they're exposing themselves to people that have exposure risks with their own clubs. It's just, it's absurd. It's absurd that they're doing this. Um, you know, if we were talking about the last round of world cup qualifying, and there's no way the world cup can start on schedule without these games, maybe there's a case to be made, but we're not talking about that at all. Um, there's, there's no reason to be happy in these games.
FIFA's Player Safety Concerns
00:03:47
Speaker
Uh, it's, it's crazy. And it's.
00:03:50
Speaker
It shouldn't be surprising, I don't think, to anyone because FIFA has little to no regard for the safety of players or anyone else. But it's absurd. I'm irritated about it as a Sounders fan. I'm more irritated about it just as a person with I like to think a little bit of common sense and a little bit of common decency.
00:04:16
Speaker
recognize that asking players to subject themselves to these risks is just ridiculous. Yeah, it feels like this was unlike league play and like you said, unlike arguably later rounds of World Cup qualifying, this was something that you would like to think FIFA could have figured out a way around. And I suppose that the issue here is Coma Bowl is
00:04:41
Speaker
feels like they have bills to pay or whatever.
MLS Playoff Format Debate
00:04:44
Speaker
And I suppose that might be what's leading to this, but it just really does feel like FIFA could have stepped in and mandated that these games, that leagues could withhold players at the very least. The fact that Cristiano Ronaldo of all people just got a positive COVID test, I would like to think can maybe raise some alarms and say like, you know, this is,
00:05:09
Speaker
This is a bad thing. These are, you know, it really is getting infected is obviously bad and we, and I hope, like, as of the last thing we heard he was asymptomatic so hopefully that stays the case. But it and so like taking the hassle part of it aside.
00:05:27
Speaker
It's just, it just feels like these players are getting exposed to unnecessary risk. You know, Gustav Svensson talked about going to Sweden and it was kind of held up as this, like, isn't it nice? They don't have to wear masks when they're over there, but also that should be raising alarms, like.
00:05:43
Speaker
He's exposed like he didn't get sick when he went to Sweden during the last round. That's great. That's that's really good. But and Sweden, to a certain degree, I guess, has has done a decent job of controlling the community spread there. But like Peru has not done a great job of that. South America in general has not done a great job of that. And
00:06:04
Speaker
And players went from being in really controlled environments to basically much less controlled environments. And it should be surprising to no one that players are getting sick or picking up this virus while they're on international duty. And it feels like a real shame. And I understand where the sounders were coming from. They basically said, look, the players want to do this. We feel like it's not our place to step in and tell them no.
00:06:34
Speaker
they don't have, FIFA is not backing them up on it. And so, yeah, I mean, I get why the sounders don't really, I don't think have a lot, a huge role to play in stopping their players from going on these things. But man, I'd like to think that, I mean, I don't know, am I being naive to think that there's any hope that FIFA will change their rules for the next round of these games, which are coming in November?
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think, I guess, Ronaldo getting it is, you know, maybe reason to be hopeful. I'm hopeful that a lot of things happen with Ronaldo getting it, but I won't get into that. But, you know, I think for me, it's another example of
00:07:20
Speaker
just the general problems that we've had with this, where people don't feel like they can say no when they're asked to do something. And obviously, professional soccer players playing at a level where they're going to get called into their national teams are not the same as somebody working at Best Buy or whatever.
00:07:41
Speaker
or somebody like a bartender right like there's a much different level of economic class etc and so forth but but it is the same sort of thing where it's like players don't want to destroy their national team futures by saying no.
International Game Risks
00:07:54
Speaker
teams don't want to destroy their relationships with their players by saying no. And the people that are making the decisions to go ahead with these games and expose the people to risk don't take on any of the risks themselves. You know, like pundits and politicians going on CNBC and telling people they've got to go back to their jobs at FUD Rutgers or whatever.
00:08:15
Speaker
are not going to get COVID from the businessmen that don't give a shit about getting COVID to people. And the people at FIFA making these decisions are not going to be in the stadiums. They're not going to be at training. They're not going to be going to the airports. They don't care. They're safe. So it's the same kind of thing where it's much easier when you're in a position of power. And more importantly, you're safe from the risks you're asking people to take on.
00:08:39
Speaker
you're much less likely to care, you know, and be more concerned about your bottom line. So, yeah, I mean, I think, unless there is an enormous outcry, but I mean, even then, like, FIFA has, like, we know that the World Cup in Qatar, you know, they're building stadiums with slave labor, and FIFA doesn't even really, just like, yeah, whatever, you know,
00:09:04
Speaker
cultural differences or whatever and just close on with it. So I don't trust them to try to do anything decent. Yeah. I mean, I guess one of the big tells was that after two players on Peru tested positive, they just went ahead and played the game the next day. Yeah. Like that's like, I mean, maybe, maybe somehow they're going to luck out and these,
00:09:29
Speaker
These two players were really the only two players from Peru that got infected and maybe no one from Brazil then gets infected. But man, that seems like an awfully big risk to roll the dice with.
00:09:43
Speaker
just go ahead and play that game after after some positive tests and it just feels like you know I know there was a I wrote a story a couple weeks ago or maybe a week ago about how MLS should consider trying to remake their bubble for the playoffs because the in my argument here is
00:10:02
Speaker
Aside from the player safety side of it, it's just a really fine tightrope that you're trying to walk, where if you have a Colorado Rapids situation once the playoffs start, there's no rescheduling it. There's no just putting the games off. Like, how do you work around that? And so my thinking is that it's just from a practical standpoint, if you actually want to complete the playoffs, you probably should go back into a bubble.
MLS Season Challenges
00:10:25
Speaker
And then we saw a story yesterday in the athletics saying, this is just not going to happen because logistically it is like,
00:10:33
Speaker
Apparently no one thought of doing this before the last couple of weeks, which is just wild to me. Or they, they thought about it, but they just didn't think it was, it was necessary or it wasn't, it wasn't economically feasible or whatever, but they made no plans for this. Whereas in hindsight, it seems like this should have been the plan all along like, Hey, let's play this bubble at the beginning of the season to get things started. We'll go as long as we can. Hopefully we can complete this season.
00:10:59
Speaker
playing at home stadiums but then we got to go back into a bubble for the playoffs because that's just on a practical level the only way we can guarantee that or that we can reasonably hope not even guarantee just reasonably hope that you can get through a whole a whole playoff that way.
00:11:16
Speaker
I don't know, it's kind of a wild situation and I feel like we got really lucky up until this point. We managed to go the last three months without too much
00:11:30
Speaker
drama on the COVID front. And then all of a sudden, this week, it feels like has just really hit us with a truck of, yeah, this is the reality. This is still here. This is a good reminder that we see teams and
00:11:48
Speaker
A bunch of teams in Italy. Inter Milan I think has six positives. Napoli had to forfeit a game. Now it looks like Juventus has some positive cases. Weston McKinney also among them with the positive cases. So it's just, I don't know, it's...
00:12:08
Speaker
It definitely seems like we decided at the start of lockdown in early March that we had to do this for a month and then everything could kind of go back to normal and we didn't really do it for a month so we never controlled the spread and everybody just like forgot about everything that they learned. They were just like
00:12:28
Speaker
You know, it's like the going ahead and playing the games because only two players were positive. Well, we know a lot more about, you know, pre-symptomatic spread. We know a lot more about how long it takes to test positive, et cetera, than we did. You would think that we would adjust the way we do things, but apparently we do not. Apparently, you know, we're not going to do that at all.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's very, it's very frustrating. Um, and, and I think rather than being pure malice
Sounders' Performance and Player Safety
00:12:56
Speaker
or pure, um, disregard, I think that there's a fair amount of that, but I think more than that, it's just incompetence and ignorance. And, and it's just like appalling to see at such high levels of, of sport and society in general that people are just like, well, I haven't really been paying attention to the news. I don't know.
00:13:18
Speaker
I think what's also frustrating to me is that I do feel like there's been a genuine effort. I actually think MLS has been pretty conscientious, generally speaking, about the way that they've done this. And I think a lot of teams have been really conscientious about the way that they've messaged this and the way that they've been behaving. And I think the sounders have done
00:13:37
Speaker
Really, I have no complaint about the way that the Sounders have handled this. I think the Sounders have done everything right. I think that they've instilled in their players a level of joint responsibility of like the way I stay safe is by you saying safe and kind of this cyclical thing of, hey, if we all do our part, we can keep each other healthy and we can continue to have
00:14:00
Speaker
Practice we can continue to play games we can do all this stuff and I think what's really frustrating is that you know You have a player you have players leave the bubble and and and their new teammates are not You know, they're new and it's not just like the teammates. It's like everyone that they're exposed to they're they're just exposing themselves in ways that they aren't being exposed in when they're when they're with their home team and their environment is less easily controlled and everything and
00:14:28
Speaker
Um, and it just feels like international soccer was one of those things that really could have been sacrificed pretty easily. And like FIFA has the money to just tell people, like, we'll make you whole if that's what we need to do. Uh, FIFA is not hurting for money. They could have easily, um, you know, covered any lost funds that Comable was going to have. And, you know,
00:14:52
Speaker
CONCACAF put off their games. I'm sure if CONCACAF put off their games that Colm Uncle Bull could afford to do the same thing. Just very frustrating all around. From a more cynical and maybe pragmatic point of view, it also sucks for the sounders from a competitive standpoint. It does.
00:15:11
Speaker
We don't know. Today, I suspect we're going to get an update from Garth Lago away about the protocol for getting Rui Diaz back today. By the time this comes out, this news will probably be out there. But when I talked to people with the sounders yesterday, they said their expectation was that there's going to be some quarantine period that Rui Diaz is going to have to go through in Peru. It might be until he's virus free. I don't know. That seems like
00:15:41
Speaker
certainly a possibility, if not maybe the way it should be. And then he'll have to do an additional quarantine. Their expectation was that he'd have to do an additional 10 day quarantine once he gets back here. You add those two things together and it's hard to imagine him playing before November 8th, which is the last game of the season. Best case scenario, maybe he plays one or two games before the end of the regular season. And that's just like a huge bummer from a competitive standpoint.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's an enormous boner from a competitive standpoint. And that's all largely best case scenario. And the best case scenario, to be clear, I'm not trying to be a Doom merchant or anything. The best case scenario is by far the most likely scenario where he gets a little sick, recovers, is fine, no lasting effects. But we can't ignore the fact that healthy athletes have had lingering issues from this in the past. Maybe this extends on
00:16:36
Speaker
for the playoffs. Maybe this extends on for longer than that. We don't really know. So yeah, it's a huge bummer competitively. It's going to be, I think, a little nerve wracking until we have confirmation that he's fully recovered. And we see him play some, because a lot of people who are fully recovered in a, yeah, I feel fine sense, are not necessarily fully recovered in a
00:16:58
Speaker
holistic body sense. Yeah, it's very frustrating. It's very upsetting from a competitive standpoint, especially because I feel like they didn't shut up about it during the game on Sunday, how many, or Saturday, whatever day it was. I don't remember days. I don't remember days anymore.
00:17:20
Speaker
But yeah, they talked about how many players the Sounders and LAFC were missing because of international duty. It's definitely hitting some clubs harder than others, which means that the risks of players coming back with COVID is higher for some teams than others. Yeah, it just sucks, man. There's not a whole lot else to say about it. It really sucks. Hopefully he never even gets sick. And it sounds like he's asymptomatic at this point. And I guess he tested positive
00:17:49
Speaker
long enough ago that there's some hope that he'll stay that way. The first time he tested positive must have been on Sunday or Monday, I think. And I don't know that we've gotten a great health update since then to kind of give us any sense of how in the clear he might be, but the only
00:18:11
Speaker
Like, there's been definitely positive cases in MLS. Teams, understandably, are not publicizing who those are. The one person who did come out and say that he got it was Nick Haglund, who's a defender with FC Cincinnati. He ended up missing, I looked this up, he ended up missing three games, which were all pretty close to each other. And so I assume basically what happened is he probably never got really sick.
00:18:34
Speaker
And once the virus cleared his system, he was allowed to go back and play. I suppose that's probably the best case scenario for him is that he doesn't get sick, the virus clears, and then he has to spend some period.
00:18:47
Speaker
in quarantine just to be on the safe side and then he's back so you know maybe he gets back in for a game or two but it's just it's it's like that's really a best case scenario and we don't need to get into worst case scenarios but I think a very reasonable scenario is just that he's out that he misses five six seven games which is just
Sounders Game Analysis
00:19:08
Speaker
you know, it just is a bummer and it's too bad and it was unfortunately something, it was something that just didn't have to happen, I guess is the way it comes down for me. And, you know, hopefully this, and I think the sounders are reasonably well positioned to weather this, but it's just a, it's a big kind of punch in the gut, especially coming on the heels of the loss on Sunday, which
00:19:31
Speaker
We may as well talk about it. There's no reason not to talk about the game. I thought the Sounders actually played pretty well. I wrote a similar column after they lost to the Timbers where I said the Sounders played well and they lost and you try not to make too much of it.
00:19:48
Speaker
But this was a game, the setters really did generate some good chances. Like this was not like a bunch of, they had some really good chances. Ironically, the one they scored was probably one of their lower probability chances. Maybe their lowest probability chance, frankly. But I mean, they probably had three or, this is a game where they could have easily scored three or four goals. And the goals they gave up were frustrating, but also kind of fluky for the most part. And not ones that I would expect this team to be giving up,
00:20:18
Speaker
um you know the the the last goal was arguably offside and the other two were just you know really good you know kind of uh opportunistic strikes from from la fc do you were any red flags raising for you in that game no i mean i think that that post bubble
00:20:40
Speaker
quote unquote, bad sounders performances and losses, especially all kind of look the same. And they look like what we saw on Sunday, good chances that they don't convert maybe one or two players that are normally, you know, playing at a very high level or playing at a more pedestrian level. Jordan Morris, I don't think had his best game. Yeah, I think, you know, and I think, um,
00:21:06
Speaker
They give up goals that are maybe flukey or they just shut off for a second. They're not necessarily getting consistently broken down. You know, LAFC has some problems, obviously, but they still have enough talent on the team that they're more than capable of grabbing a result like that.
00:21:25
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, it was just, I think I said during the game, they probably don't deserve to win this game, but they certainly don't deserve to be down 3-1. I think that's very reasonable. I think if they play that game the exact same way 10 times, the Sounders probably win a couple. It's probably a draw most of the time. So as much as it sucks to lose a game, especially to LAFC, who is just really, really fun to beat,
00:21:52
Speaker
It's just that there's not a lot that bothers me about it. I think that if we had seen them look completely infinite without Raul, that's a lot more concerning, but they didn't. I do think, I guess one slight concern that I have is how much teams are going to adjust to focus on Jordan Morris in a way they can't do with Raul there to neutralize him somewhat.
00:22:16
Speaker
Jordan and Bruin have played together a fair amount and have looked good, but I think it's reasonable to think that it's going to take the Sounders from being
Adjustments Without Ruidiaz
00:22:26
Speaker
one of the most dangerous attacking teams in the league to being a little bit less than that probably, but I still think they're going to score plenty.
00:22:35
Speaker
You know, just nothing that scares me too much yet. I'm a little more concerned, I guess, against teams that are going to completely bunker in and just try to weather the storm more than LAFC was willing to do. I think that might make it a little tougher just because Raul can.
00:22:53
Speaker
create things out of nowhere in a way that will ruin maybe can't as much. But from this game specifically, it's just one of those days, man. We should be used to having a couple of those per season by now, and I'd much rather lose a game like that than the way that they lost to LA and in Orlando. That's for sure.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I would definitely echo all that. I would say if there's one mild ongoing concern, it's not that Morris wasn't dangerous in this game because I actually think he created some danger. And maybe the most emblematic situation that he was in was right after Ledero's goal.
00:23:34
Speaker
He got put in down the right wing, and he was essentially in on goal but instead of taking the shot himself he tried to set up a cross and it was a, you know, a chance that should have been a goal one way or the other, but it is a little frustrating that
00:23:50
Speaker
it ended up not being even a chance on goal. And we've seen that a couple times in the last couple games, frankly, where players, you know, two games ago, it was Christian Roldan going in on goal and then taking an extra touch and trying to set up Morris for what would have probably been a tap-in instead of just either trying to round the keeper himself or chipping the keeper or doing something other than what he did, essentially, which was basically dribble into the keeper.
00:24:20
Speaker
And we're seeing some of that a little bit, I think, where the sounders are sometimes guilty of looking for the perfect play instead of
00:24:29
Speaker
just getting it on frame and then hoping the chips fall, were they letting the chips fall, sort of. And I suppose in that way, maybe Will Bruin is, it's good to have out there because he's a little bit more inclined to take that shot. Even though it's not always, you know, Will had a great chance too, right in front of goal and he ends up shooting it over the crossbar. You know, Christian Roldan had this wonderful look at a header right at the end of the first half. You can go down the list. There was probably,
00:24:56
Speaker
Like I said, three or four really decent chances that the Sounders should have done better on. And they didn't. And of course, the one goal they get is,
Lodeiro's Set-Piece Skills
00:25:05
Speaker
I don't know. I think it's up there with one of Freddy's. There's barely even five or six just absolutely spectacular free kick goals from the Sounders. I don't know. From a visual perspective, taking the circumstance and all that other kind of stuff out of it,
00:25:24
Speaker
Nico's goal was about as pretty as it gets, right? It's a beautiful free kick. I think it's probably a tier below like Freddie's.
00:25:32
Speaker
um 45 what however many are the one against fc dallas yeah against fc alice that one was much farther out than i remembered it being yes at one point i didn't list that on my top five and i had kind of forgotten that that was like a solid 40 yard blast yeah to be fair i don't think that that goal gets scored in 2020 mls right you can you know you can only beat you in front of you um i would put it in like just that
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's up there. It's in the conversation for sure. And just from an aesthetic point of view, like maybe it's not the most difficult, maybe it's not the most spectacular, but it's just when you, I think when you think of a great free kick goal, that's like what you're thinking of, you know, like that distance, that, that sort of curl. Top of the, like perfectly put into the upper 90. Right. And it was, it was taken, and I think,
00:26:30
Speaker
I don't know, at least from what I can, like when I go back and I look at all these goals, most of the goals come from a little off center. And I, and I assume that is creates a better angle for the kicker. I have not someone who has a lot of experience with free kicks personally. So I can't really speak from personal experience, but from.
00:26:49
Speaker
What I can tell, it looks like being off from center is ideal as opposed to trying to take it just from the top of the D, which is where he basically was, you know, top of the D and then another 10 yards or so behind that.
00:27:05
Speaker
So I think that that amps up the difficulty factor of it. And he just put it right in the in the in the upper 90. I mean, it was just no goalkeeper in any league anywhere is going to stop that shot. No. And I definitely think that having this is another situation where having another credible set piece threat is very useful because, you know, if he's taking that free kick dead center and he's the only one taking it, it's much easier for the keeper to cheat for the wall to cheat, et cetera. Yeah.
00:27:35
Speaker
So it's another way in which Joao Paulo is paying off. Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I kind of got into a little bit in my column this week, and I do think it's an interesting point of debate, because we've, I think, talked about it on the show a bit, is how you assess Nico Ledero's set peaceability.
Sounders' Set-Piece Strategies
00:27:59
Speaker
i think he's shown at least from free kicks he's about as dual threat as it like he's the ideal player i think that you want taking free kicks because he is as good at serving in passes from distance as he is shooting i mean that's his fourth goal clearly a danger on on when he's shooting uh but he's got a ton of assists off of free kicks too um
00:28:24
Speaker
And I guess more of the question is how good is he at corner kicks? That feels like an ongoing debate that is more pointed in the Sounder at Heart community is if he is awful or if he's actually pretty good.
00:28:41
Speaker
I think he's somewhere in the middle of that. I mean, we have talked about this in the past, and I think my position has always been that the kinds of corners that the Sounders try to take, where they try to hit the man on the near post, when they don't come off, look worse to a lot of people than one that's just kind of put into the mixer, but they have a much higher rate of success. He takes some very bad corners sometimes.
00:29:10
Speaker
But overall, I think that he's an above average corner taker. He's not so good that he should unquestionably be taking every single corner, but he's not. And also, corners just aren't great chances. Right. I think that's what it really comes down to. Right. I think people expect them to be converted much more often than they are. I feel like every year, people talk about, oh, the Sounders have got to score more goals off of corners, and it's just not
00:29:39
Speaker
They don't score, teams just don't score that many goals off the corners. If that's how you get a lot of your goals, you're probably a pretty shitty attacking team. And I think that,
00:29:49
Speaker
I would like to see the Sounders take corners short as often as possible. It's just when you look at the percentage of chances, there are good chances that are generated from corners. Teams that take short corners do much better from those situations. Now, obviously, you can't take them all that way because then teams can cheat. But I think as much as is possible as you can do while still keeping the defense honest, that's the way to go.
00:30:13
Speaker
But I think from anything other than corners, Nico has set these deliveries fantastic. He scored a lot of goals.
00:30:24
Speaker
directly from set pieces from situations that you would not necessarily expect to score directly from set pieces because he puts balls in areas where either it's gonna go on frame or it's gonna be headed and the keeper can't decide, which is gonna, is more likely to happen and just kind of freezes. He's had three or four balls like that, that don't get scored very often, but are definitely intentionally, he's saying either somebody's gonna get to this and make it tough on the keeper
00:30:53
Speaker
or it's going to go in the goal, but it's in an area where it makes it tougher for the keeper to react. And I think people look at those goals and say, well, that was a fluke, but it's not. I mean, he's putting it in those areas for a reason. So I think he's maybe not the best set piece taker the Sounders have ever had, but he's up there. And I think that it's insane that he has this reputation as being actively not very good at it. It's just one of those things I don't get.
00:31:21
Speaker
It is an interesting ongoing debate and I don't know that we're going to get a good... It's not going to be settled easily but I think that you're ultimately right that what it comes down to is my suspicion is the sounders have probably done a fair amount of analysis on that and found that
00:31:42
Speaker
The shots that come from near post runs are much more dangerous than shots that are being taken from like the penalty spot, essentially, or like higher up in the penalty area where it's easier to connect those passes, but it's just the shot is going to be a lower probability or.
00:32:01
Speaker
Frankly, like you're throwing it in the mixer is not necessarily a great strategy. Yeah. I mean, it's the thing about, about a near post header is that you can put it on frame. You can flick it back across the area to put it back into like, there's just way much more that you can do. Um, with a header like that and the match ups are better, you know, it's usually a one V one and versus.
00:32:24
Speaker
8v8, you know, plus a keeper that can touch the ball. But a lot of people just hate near post corners and hate short corners because it's, I guess, just not what they're used to. I know. Right. Not as visually gratifying, maybe. I guess, yeah. All right. Well, that's probably a good place to end this segment. We're going to come back, take some questions. You're listening to Nos Adietes.
00:32:51
Speaker
Full pull wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nota adieres since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:33:10
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing, and three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com.
Judging Performance Amid Pandemic
00:33:32
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adietes. So we have questions and lickets here to even serve them up for us. First one's from some guy I've never heard of before. Alexi Lawless asks, is it fair to judge, criticize, or critique a pro team or player in 2020? Well, I for sure think there's a sliding scale. Like, I think
00:33:56
Speaker
that if it's a new coach, especially you're insane. If you're judging them too harshly, like they have not had anything like, like I'll give an example. Yop Stom in FC, Cincinnati. I don't know. Like he's, I think, fairly being criticized for not having the most progressive, uh,
00:34:17
Speaker
tactics right now, but also what's he supposed to do? Like he's barely had his team together. Um, and, and they don't have a lot of talent as it is. So I'm, I'm pretty forgiving in a situation like that. Uh, I don't know. I'm less forgiving though, in a situation like Ben Olson who has been with, you know, who has basically been the co had been the coach of DC United for 10 years. And I think there, you can, you can argue that they are,
00:34:48
Speaker
underperforming what you would expect from them. And even given those circumstances, you got to look at the last 10 years and say like, well, is this really that out of character? And I don't think it is. So like, I think it's just very much a sliding scale of how long they've been with the team and whether or not it's, you know, it would be a huge mistake I think to judge anyone based on just this season is what I'm saying.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think that you can judge players, you can judge teams, performances, coaches, but you have to do it on a sliding scale. You have to do it with the context of what's happening in the season. If the Sounders go on down the stretch to have a pretty mediocre rest of the season and whipper out of the playoffs and can't score goals,
00:35:39
Speaker
Are you going to blame that on Brian Schmetzer? Or are you going to blame that on Raul Ruidea's having to go to Peru and getting COVID? Or just general the uncertainty of the season. And I think you can look at a player like, I would imagine one of the players that this person was likely thinking of was like a Chicharito at LA who has been really
00:36:02
Speaker
way way way underperforming what you would have expected and really it's underperforming under any reasonable expectations even given everything else but still i think you got to judge him on a on a sliding on a on a curve like i just don't like i i think that says more about the organizational structure around him than it does about whether or not that was a good or bad buy i mean i will say this i don't understand why
00:36:26
Speaker
Like why is inner Miami going out and spending, I don't know, committing like $50 million to a player who they can't even. Put out in front of fans. I don't quite get that one, but I guess you get getting all the way going when you can get them. I guess so. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that there are lots of things that you can blame on the pandemic. I think there are lots of things that you can.
00:36:51
Speaker
say, yeah, the pandemic probably contributed to. I think Chicharito is a great example of one where it's like, I think a lot of people were skeptical of the signing, frankly, because he's just never been that great of a player in league games throughout his entire career.
00:37:10
Speaker
But i think it's crazy to spike the football and say well that was that was a bad decision because of what's going on you know we live in a world where where liberal fans are blaming not having fans in the stadium on losing a game seven to two. So people can play pretty much whatever they want on the pandemic but i do think you have to.
00:37:32
Speaker
at least make some allowances that you probably shouldn't go too crazy with your judgments on anything.
Sounders' Achievements and Recognition
00:37:38
Speaker
The one thing I do think, though, is worth thinking about is that players that are really breaking out in seasons like this, I think you have to give them a great deal of credit for that because... Yeah.
00:37:51
Speaker
It shows, I think, a kind of mental fortitude and ability to fight through adversity that I think is notable. So I think that that's one situation where maybe you can judge a player positively to say they were able to move their game up to a new level, even with everything going on in the world. I think that's impressive.
00:38:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that Jo Paulo and Jaymar both fall into that category where these are players who have presumably families that are very unsettled right now and they are able to put that aside and both are having frankly outstanding seasons. And I guess it's maybe it sounds hypocritical to be able to say that you can positively judge some players but not negatively judge others but
00:38:37
Speaker
I just think that it, again, I think it speaks more to the organizational structure around teams. And I think that the sounders have, this is just an example of the structure that the sounders have built, that it's allowing players who are relatively unsettled to be settled at least in their game. Yeah.
00:39:00
Speaker
Okay. Next question. Abom88 asks, who are the MLS editorial staff and why do they never consider coach for coach of the week? I will say that it's, it is an ongoing oddity that I don't know that Brian Schumacher has ever been named coach of the week. He is, I think the most successful coach of the last 40 years by almost any metric. And it's almost like from a national perspective, he only can be,
00:39:30
Speaker
He can only be demoted from credit. He can only fail. He can't actually succeed. Any success he has is expected, but any failure he has is proof of concept or something. I mean, Brian Schmutzer doesn't get nearly enough credit from anyone in the national media and MLS. The sounders generally don't. Anytime they do get credit, it's backhanded and then some sort of joke about trolling because
00:40:00
Speaker
I'm sorry, like, cause we're all triggered so easily. Yeah. I look, I know that we, you have friends that write for MLS soccer. Um, I'm not saying it's unfair as an engagement strategy or whatever, but they do the things they do to drive clicks and outrage and they will admit to doing it. And that is fine. If you want that to be your engagement strategy, I say ridiculous shit all the time to piss people off.
00:40:27
Speaker
I'm not, so I'm not, but that's what they're doing. They ignore the sounders on purpose. They say dumb things about the sounders on purpose because it works. And also because I think, and this is I think one of maybe your pet theories. So, you know, we can edit this out if I'm not supposed to say this, but they, that a lot of the national media gets irritated that
00:40:53
Speaker
um they're like that they don't the sounders don't need them right like that and i think that that that bothers people i think that that kind of ruffles their feathers that the sounders frankly are bigger than mls in some ways um but that's i'm sorry yeah like the sounders are a bigger deal than the columbus crew like
00:41:15
Speaker
crew players need more juice to get hyped and get recognized than the sounders do. I think there's something to that, that it's like we do a pretty good job of hyping the team ourself and we don't necessarily need, like the sounders don't need the national media's help to get hyped. And I suppose that you can, you know, it is an interesting, I do think it's an interesting, like it's an interesting,
00:41:41
Speaker
environment because I think Seattle sports fans especially are used to being overlooked for perfectly justifiable reasons. And in part, it's historically this kind of corner of the country that doesn't get the media attention that other parts get.
00:41:58
Speaker
But they also aren't usually hugely successful teams. The Seahawks maybe are breaking that mold too, but the Sounders are legitimately one of the big, big teams in MLS, and they don't seem to get covered in that same national media way that you would expect. But it is an interesting phenomenon. I don't have a good answer. I assume the MLS staff is
00:42:27
Speaker
You know, like, I don't know who I don't actually know who does the voting for team of the week. I don't have any insight into I know it's it's like generically said the MLS soccer staff that decides that I have no insight into who actually is doing that voting. I don't know if it's one person or if it's
00:42:43
Speaker
like they vote on it, I have no idea. But it is weird that Schmenzer has never, and I think it's because he doesn't, like the Sounders don't pull off upsets. And like, because by nature of always being kind of the favored team, they don't really pull off a lot of upsets. And I feel like the coach of the week is almost always going to be some coach who pulled some great upset.
00:43:03
Speaker
That is the much less cynical and probably fairer explanation for a lot of it is that the sounders, people expect the sounders to win than they do.
Striker Options Without Ruidiaz
00:43:13
Speaker
So it's not impressive. I think it's a little weirder that he's never
00:43:18
Speaker
gotten any serious consideration for a coach of the year, not just coach of the week. Coach of the week, I think, is explained by that. And I guess, to a certain degree, coach of the year is also explained by that. I would think, though, that if, I mean, I'm sure what's going to end up happening is if the Sounders and TFC finish 1-2 in the supporters shield, that Greg Vanney is going to end up getting all the plaudits for coach of the year. But I would think, at the very least, this is a year where Schmetzer would be in the running for that. Yeah, you would hope so.
00:43:49
Speaker
People will just find math teachers boring, that's all. I guess so. Chamber I Seattle asks, who will get more time at Striker down the stretch? Jordan Morris or Will Bruin? All right, I don't think there's any question that's Will Bruin. Yeah, Jordan Morris is a winger now. I think that's like he'll play at Striker if there's a need for it, but he's a winger until there's that need. I don't think there's any question about that.
00:44:15
Speaker
And I think, you know, we used to have this debate, what his best position was. And I have a hard time, like, I actually thought he had some real promise as a striker. And I think he could be a really good striker, even as a lone striker. But, you know, I saw some people suggesting like, oh, the center's going to have to change formations if Ruby Diaz is out. And I don't quite understand the logic behind that. It seems like they can perfectly like put, just plug and play Will Bruin. And I think you're fine.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, to be totally honest, like I was very much on the team, you know, that that Morris was a striker and putting him at winger limited as his potential and his ability. I was dead wrong. I mean, I think that he's he's clearly best suited to that position. And he's developed his games and game in ways that I just didn't anticipate him doing so. Yeah, I think and I think it was playing a reason to doubt that he would be certainly this successful. Yeah.
00:45:13
Speaker
And just to add, is Justin Dillon going to see any time? God, that's a more interesting question. I don't think, like there's something going on. I don't have any insight into it, but it's like, if you were paying attention to the game day lineup, the Sounders for a bunch of weeks in a row, a bunch of games in a row, were leaving an open spot and then not
00:45:37
Speaker
And while Boana, Hopiau, and Dylan were all left off the game day roster, so I don't have a lot of insight into why that was. I've tried to do some digging. It sounds like it's something that the team is not particularly itching to talk about.
00:45:53
Speaker
Um, you know, maybe when one of them breaks out and they can say like, Oh yeah, we had some, this is the reason, but, um, I don't know. I would like to, I would think that Dylan would be in line for getting some minutes. Uh, if no other reason to give Bruin some time off and maybe he will, but I don't, I don't feel very confident in predicting that right now.
MVP Candidate Debate
00:46:18
Speaker
Okay, going with some combined questions. It's the same topic kind of things. J Robin Fay asks, will Nico be in the top three for MVP? And Bill Jones STRPT asks, does Nico stay so fit with the half the team looking gassed and leggy? It really emphasized how freakishly fit he is. Is it a superpower? Or does he just work that much harder than other folks?
00:46:45
Speaker
I mean, it does seem like it, I can't imagine that it's as simple as he's just works harder because that's just not usually how it works. Like there's some, some inherent ability that he has to
00:47:01
Speaker
to run. And, and it's it is amazing. It's amazing to watch. Like, I think in MLS is back, I was just actually just thinking about this how not only were the sounders missing Joe Paulo during MLS is back, not only was jamar
00:47:16
Speaker
out for half of those games. But Nico Ledero was just coming back and he was not really at his full ability at the time. And since the teams have come back and been playing, Ledero has been looking every bit like his old self. I would say that in some ways he looks better than he has before. And his fitness is as good as ever. I think the Sounders are doing a good job of trying to find minutes here and there where he can get some rest.
00:47:46
Speaker
As far as MVP, I don't know, Aaron, you want to tackle the MVP part? I mean, I think it's kind of like we talked about in the last, with the last question, where I think he's clearly one of the best, three best players in MLS and has been in the entire time he's been in the league. But he just doesn't seem to really get the accolades. It's the Nick, it's the Nick Raimondo thing, right? Right. The Stephen Fry thing, increasingly, where everybody agrees, yeah, he's one of the best to ever do it, but
00:48:16
Speaker
He's never really in those conversations. His numbers don't quite jump off the page the way that a Pazuelos do. And I think in this case, he's going to probably be hurt by some. Like if Jordan Morris, let's just say Jordan Morris finishes with 13 goals and 10 assists, he's going to get some attention just based on those numbers alone. And that's going to inherently detract from Lidero's candidacy, I think.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah, like I would say that the buzz among Sounders fans is that Jordan should be the MVP at this point. And I'm not going to say that's wrong. I mean, he's been fantastic. I think Niko is the better player that's been more important to how the Sounders have been. But I think it's a toss up. They've both been incredible.
00:49:03
Speaker
But I think that's a fair point. I mean, I think both of those are fair points. Like there is going to be some votes splitting most likely. And also Nico, just so much of what he's good at is not necessary. I hate to say like, oh, he's good at things that don't set up on the stat sheet, but he's good at things that don't necessarily show up on like the top level stat sheet, you know, football ref or whatever. Like he's,
00:49:27
Speaker
A lot of the things he does are quantifiable, but it's not necessarily the ankles and assists and things like that.
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah, and I think you can definitely, you know, Toodle Rahman on Twitter the other day made a pretty compelling case for Jordan being MVP just based on numbers. And he had a whole suite of numbers, which I don't need to get into. And I think you can make a case that statistically speaking, Jordan Morris has been the most productive attacking player in the league. But if you ask me, who's the one player the Sounders can least afford to miss or
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah, they can Lisa Ford to miss I think Nico has to be the top of that list and I would actually put gel Paulo above Morris as well like I think the Sounders are still a Contender for MLS Cup if Jordan Morris for some reason were to go missing I think they're clearly much much better with him on the field, but I
00:50:20
Speaker
I think if you take away Xiao Paolo or Nico Ledero, that dramatically diminishes, like relatively speaking, that diminishes their ceiling more. I just think that they are much, they touch the ball so much, so much of what the Sounders are trying to do is reliant on them. You know, I suppose if the Sounders are gonna consolidate their MVP efforts, it might be behind Jordan Morris, especially if his numbers are so good.
Comparing Sounders' Talent
00:50:46
Speaker
But I think internally, I think Sounders fans recognize that
00:50:50
Speaker
you know, Lidero is the more important player. And that's not going to be super satisfying to people that want to see him win MVP, but I don't, unfortunately, see it. Okay. Two next questions. Let's see. D. Dodd, Leah, Chim.
00:51:13
Speaker
asks, how many years can this core of the team continue? And Jessit1112 asks, is this the most talented Sounders team ever? I think it's definitely the most talented Sounders team ever. I don't think there's any question in my mind. I don't.
00:51:29
Speaker
I just want to build on that. I was listening, not to, not to drag them, but I was listening to Brad and Steve show the other day. And, and I think Brad was the one who said, I don't know. You got to look at that 2009 team too. And I'm just thinking you are on some serious stuff right now. If you think the 2009 roster from a talent perspective, you had Pete Vianas starting games. Pete Vianas would not be in the league. I mean, he would be like a USL bench player in 2020.
00:51:58
Speaker
I mean, I love Patrick Iani. Great guy. I think he is super nice. He had a lot of like inherent ability. He started a lot of games for the Sounders. He started a game at defensive midfielder for the Sounders. He, I don't think, again, another player, probably not on the roster. Nathan Sturgis probably is not, is like barely an MLS quality player right now. And like, I don't want to beat these guys up. This was 2009 was a fun team. You can argue Casey Keller, maybe the like at his peak,
00:52:28
Speaker
surely the the greatest goalkeeper to ever come through MLS. I think he's the one he's one of those players in the only goalkeeper in MLS who at any point in his career could say he was maybe the best goalkeeper in the world right and and like you can make like pick out arguments like that I suppose and and like oh Freddie Younberg was so good at one point and Freddie Montero well
00:52:52
Speaker
Look, if you take the bulk of that talent in 2009, you compare it to the bulk of the talent in 2020, they are not comparable in any way. I mean, Freddie Monteiro was probably the best player in the league by the time he left. And he was in the conversation as soon as you got here. And we have seen him in MLS, in like contemporary MLS at close to what should still be his peak. And he's like,
00:53:17
Speaker
a starter for a bad team for a bad team and some of that is that he's declined like he maybe never got to the heights that it looked like he might get to but a lot of it is just that MLS is better and I think even if you want to say
00:53:33
Speaker
Okay, let's correct for the talent level, right? Like we're not talking about, I still think that the 2020 team is better than the 2019. I don't know. The 2019 team was extremely well coached, well constructed, you know, stayed in every game they were in for the most part, but
00:53:54
Speaker
You know, they, I mean, they weren't, they weren't the best team in the league or anywhere close to it. And the sounders, I think very clearly, they actually were reasonably close to winning. So they were, I think they were, but I think they only felt two points shy of the supporter shield and possibly, but the, the supporter shield also that year was one with like 49 points in 30 games. And I think like when you got into the playoffs, like they just were not at the same level as, as the dynamo were.
00:54:16
Speaker
I think that was pretty obvious. Yeah, even though that went to overtime, it was a, you know, the Sounders were kind of lucky to get it to overtime. And I suppose there's maybe a better argument for 2014, I think 2014, at least relative to the rest of the league.
00:54:35
Speaker
that 2014 team had a lot of talent. Like you had guys like Chad Barrett and Kenny Cooper coming off the bench. You had, you know, you had legitimate start, you know, you had Marco Papa, you had Obafemi, like Marco Papa, a really good version of Marco Papa, Clint Dempsey, Obafemi, you know, Lamar Nagel, I think had a career year in 2014. You can go down, D'Andre Yedlin was on that team, Chad Marshall, you know, there's a lot, Stephen Fry was still on that team. You could,
00:55:02
Speaker
That assemblage of talent, I think, especially relative to MLS, you could argue, was better. But look, Nico Ledero, Zhao Paolo, Jay Mar, I think you would have a hard time finding, like, if you just took the starters from the 2014 team and the starters from this year's team,
00:55:23
Speaker
Like this year's stuff, I think the 2020 version of Stephen Fry is better than the 2020 version of. The 2014 version of Stephen Fry was still pretty, if you get rusty at times. Yes. I think you can definitely argue that. I suppose we could go position by position. We don't necessarily need to do that, but I think this year's team, I suspect that you'd probably have six starters from this year's team. I'm just like, without like really running the numbers.
00:55:51
Speaker
Like, yeah, I don't know, like Ozzy Alonzo 2014 probably is, I think he's a starter, Chad Marshall 2014, probably a starter, Clint and Oba. I don't know that I take Ozzy over that. I probably take that Ozzy over Svensson, but it's, it's, there's an argument. Like I think where the 2020 starters are better. I don't think it's, there's any question. Yeah. Where the 2014 starters are better.
00:56:20
Speaker
maybe right back. I mean, look, it's very obvious. Yeah, this is a good question. Is Rui Dias, is the 2020 version of Rui Dias better than the 2014 version? No question in my mind. That right there, that right there, it makes it a really hard argument to even
00:56:38
Speaker
pretend to argue that 2014 was better. If, if you're, if Oba Fenny Martin, who was probably the best team on that 2014 team is not a starter on this thing. Right. 2014 Oba is set. 2014 Oba is a, is a great player, even in today's MLS, but Raul.
00:56:54
Speaker
Is the best goal score December's have ever had by leaps and bounds Okay, let's do this. Let me know what now. We're now we're here, right? Let's have this conversation Yeah, what's the formation you use if you're gonna combine these two teams you go with the three four is it is it? Morris rue Diaz and ova as your forwards and then somehow you figure out a way to put Nico and Clint and I don't know Aussie or but that's I mean, it's a tough one you like, how do you
00:57:24
Speaker
I think you could play Ozzy and Nico together in a two with Dempsey ahead of them. And then Jau Powell was on the bench, I guess, huh? That's the thing, right? That's why exercises like this are so tricky because the roster construction is so much different. I mean, I guess you gotta have to
00:57:49
Speaker
Force yourself to do a four, two, three, one, right? You got it. Yeah, I guess you do. Because that's what they both played. Yeah. I mean, I think the reality is that you never end up with a team that has Clint, Oba, Morris, Ruby Diaz, and Ledero, and Joao Paulo. Right. But I do think like, do I think that Joao Paulo is a better player than Ozzy? I do. I think he's a...
00:58:17
Speaker
I don't want to say a much better player than peak Aussie, but he's a better player than peak Aussie. I mean, he's certainly a better play. I mean, he's a more versatile player. I don't think there's any question about that. But I think if the question is you have to put one of these two guys that are six, it's probably going to be Aussie. Yeah, I think that's fair.
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah, but I think the 2014 Sounders and contemporary MLS are a playoff team and probably a competitive playoff team. They're not going to just get blown out in the first round.
00:58:51
Speaker
they're not as good as the 2020 salaries. And again, I think it depends on how you're asking the question. If you're saying is it relative to the talent of the league, I think you can maybe argue that 2014 was better.
Longevity and Future Planning
00:59:02
Speaker
But I think from our purest talents perspective, it's just crazy pants to question whether
00:59:11
Speaker
Like I think you can maybe debate 2019 versus 2020 but I think you go any farther back than that and it's just like you're not even it's like hard to compare apples and oranges at that point because you're you're just not like it's a different it's a different reality like I think 2016 is when modern MLS
00:59:30
Speaker
is when you really have to like, when it's really a fair comparison, I would say. Cause that's when Tam was really like got into full swing, right? Like it existed in 2015, but it wasn't the same level. Um, yeah. Um, and in terms of the, how, how many years can the core of the team continue? Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, I think, um,
00:59:56
Speaker
three years so another two years another two years in addition to this one is is reasonable but
01:00:06
Speaker
like some of the critical players in the team are starting to get to the age where they could just fall off cliff and yeah I mean like well let's see who do we think is the core of this team it's it's fry yeah fry go for i'm saying go for the back so let's go fry jaymar right um i guess ariaga maybe is still considered
01:00:27
Speaker
Let's, uh, I don't know if I'd say that right now. Okay. Brad Smith. No, I don't think Brad Smith is, I mean, you know how I feel about Brad Smith. Okay. Fair enough. I mean, I think like he's, he's a solid player. He's a good MLS left-back. Um, I don't, but I wouldn't consider him. Okay. Fair enough. Uh, Kelvin Leardham.
01:00:46
Speaker
No, to me, the core of a team is like, guys, that it's like, you are changing the identity. Okay, fair enough. Good point. So it's Fry, like Giaopalo, Ledero, Ruidias, Morris. I would probably include Jaymar, like, I think he's that important. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I guess if you, so I guess this is the, to me, the question is, like, is Nico, I think Nico is probably,
01:01:14
Speaker
I think Nico and Raoul, you can probably hope to have back for two more years. I think Morris enrolled, like Morris, I think is a little, you and I differ I think on this. I think Morris, I wouldn't be surprised if Morris is gone.
01:01:31
Speaker
in less than two years, because I just think that if he continues to play this way, there's gonna be an, it's almost inevitable that he tries out Europe. We'll see, I don't know, I mean, I'm wrong. Rolled on, I think is around, but yeah, I think two years is the, I think two years is really, like before you have to really change the character of who this team is, I think two years is, two more years after this is like the high end.
01:01:57
Speaker
And I think I think Nico can play at a high level for longer than that. And maybe he does that here. Maybe he goes back to Taboka. I don't know. But he's going to be a different player. Like he can't like he cannot possibly be the same kind of player that he is now where he's just in everywhere all at once. Number eight that runs like it's just
01:02:16
Speaker
nobody's been able to do that. Lots, there's tons of players that have been able to transition from that into an equally effective, but totally different type of player. But if Nico is not the player, he is the identity of the team necessarily has to change.
01:02:32
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll even go a step further. I think next year is probably, if I'm Garth, I'm assuming next year is the last chance I have with this group. I think that's reasonable. Yeah. And so I think you do what you can. I think on some level you have to write off this year. You want to win, but I don't think you can. There's only so much you can do right now. Of course.
01:02:55
Speaker
to force anything right now and I think next year they have to kind of look at as this is the last year of our current window and then and we have to start preparing for the next window right and the sounders I think have been good especially in Gart's time
01:03:11
Speaker
of staying competitive while recycling. Yeah. I mean, 2018, I think we agreed was basically a rebuilding year. Yeah. And that team ended up being extremely talented. By the end of the year, I think they were legitimate MLS Cup contenders. It didn't work out that way, obviously. But they had the talent, I think, to compete for MLS Cup in 2019.
01:03:33
Speaker
2016 was totally a transitional year. They won MLS Cup that year. I don't think they had any business really. The way that team came together was very opportunistic. 2017 clearly was kind of one window was closing. To me,
01:03:52
Speaker
But you can argue the Sounders maybe made a mistake by bringing Dempsey back for 2018. Clearly it played out in a way that would suggest it was a little bit of a mistake. But yeah, I mean, I think the fact that they've been able to kind of transition from one to the next, but Ledero really, I think, is the player around this all being built.
Sounders' Team Culture and Ownership
01:04:15
Speaker
And I think you've got to start preparing for a post-Ledero world sometime next year. Yeah, I think that's fair.
01:04:24
Speaker
Just as a follow-up question to throw a bone to Brad and Steve, which version of Brad and Steve's hair is the best from which era? His 2009 era was still pretty emo, if I recall correctly. I think his long hair was the best, but I guess it really wasn't like his playing career, right? What are we talking about? Just best hair overall. Brad and Steve. I mean, Steve's hair clearly was peak when, like,
01:04:52
Speaker
That was when he was kind of growing it out, right? It was really that or a close crop. There's not a lot of in-between ground for him. But it was funny, Brad was on some MLS show the other day and they clipped the sounders video dating or whatever thing. That was like 2011, I want to say, and he still had his boy band haircut.
01:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, it stuck around for a while. Yeah. But I think that that was still normal then. Yeah, sure. It's just weird how...
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't seem like that long ago to me. I want to say 2014 was when he really started to come into his own. I want to say 2014 was the hair flip year, like the famous hair flip year. I think it was. 2014 was when I feel like Brad had won everyone over. That was the year where everybody kind of got on the trolley with Brad.
01:05:47
Speaker
I think in his sartorial circle. I think that's the year that those choices started to reflect that. Absolutely. Okay, last question. EBFG in PDX asks, much has been made of the team culture, players returning, et cetera. What drives that primarily coach, girth, ownership? Which of those is at the greatest risk of changing in any significant way over the coming years?
01:06:15
Speaker
Well, that's, I like the flip to that is important because I think the answer is all the above like I think it's what makes this organization so successful is that the ethos is bled into everything like
01:06:33
Speaker
There's an expectation of winning. There's an expectation of how you carry yourself. There's an expectation of success that just permeates everything that the organization does. And so I think they hold themselves to a certain standard, which I think is what raises the standard in itself is just everyone is kind of rowing in the same direction, for lack of a better term. Shane O'Neill kind of talked about this idea that when you show up in Seattle, there's no
01:07:00
Speaker
write-off games. There's no games that, and I think you can feel it in a fan base too, like every time the sounders lose, people flip out because there's no such thing as an acceptable loss. And I think that that is partly the result of the way the sounders have greeted everything. As far as, I don't know, you want to take the second part of that and I'll chime in. What do you think is the part that they are most at risk of losing? I mean, it's
01:07:30
Speaker
Maybe I think that the scariest possible outcome is some venture capital vulture gets a boner for MLS or the sounder specifically and makes current ownership an offer they can't refuse and just destroys the culture. But I just
01:07:51
Speaker
I just don't see that happening I think that Adrian has been. I think that Adrian understands business and the ways that things like that can happen and has made sort of as a steward of the club, a concerted effort to structure the ownership and things like that in a way that makes that a very difficult outcome or scenario.
01:08:11
Speaker
I also think that MLS is probably not quite at the attractive business venture to strip for assets phase of things yet. Nobody is going to make Manchester United money off of an MLS club.
01:08:28
Speaker
And if you wanna get into MLS and just, you know, do some, just sit on the asset and sell it when the time is right, that's a great way to make a bunch of money. But the sounders probably aren't the best team to do that with because the entry price is high. And I think so much of their value is wrapped up into their success. And I don't think a lot of, I don't think an outside owner would come in here and say like, hey, what if we,
01:08:59
Speaker
operated at a low, what if we cheaped out on everything and fans would just show up anyway. And I don't think that's where, like, I think it's pretty obvious that's not where the team is now. I'll agree with you. I'll agree with you. I think ownership is probably the area that you can least afford to lose because we've seen
01:09:20
Speaker
a change in coaching. We've seen a change in GM. I suspect that if Logger Way were to leave, it would probably be a Chris Henderson type or they bring someone in from outside that I think could probably maintain that. I think if Brian were to leave, I think you probably end up with
01:09:37
Speaker
You know, you could very easily end up with a Jimmy or a Gonzalo as his predecessor, or maybe they bring in an outside coach. I think all those things should reasonably, you should be reasonably confident the Sounders can navigate those. But if Adrian were to leave the ownership to some outside person, I think that's probably the area where you most start to see a decline.
01:10:02
Speaker
You know I think that that I may be biased in saying that because I know I like I obviously talked to Adrian on a semi regular basis and some inclined to believe that but I think if you have to pick one of those three places I think ownership is the one that
01:10:17
Speaker
could most negatively impact the ethos? I think when you look at all the teams in MLS that have a culture that is their own and an ethos that's their own and they do things a certain way for good or for bad because Merit Paulson is a great example of this in Portland, like the Timbers have
01:10:36
Speaker
a culture and they have an ethos and they have a way of doing things and they're part of the community in a similar way I think to the sounders are in Seattle because he's invested as an owner. It's not just a way for him to make money. That's a big part of it for everybody obviously, but it goes beyond being a business venture and he has a
01:10:59
Speaker
way that he wants the club to operate. I think it's the same way with Adrian. And then you look at a club like NYC FC or LA FC, TFC, who spend a lot of money and are good on a regular basis and competitive and sign big players, but they don't have that same sort of
01:11:23
Speaker
I don't know, culture around the club. Like they don't, like they have fan bases that like, I'm not shitting on the fans or anything like that. I just like, they don't have the same. They didn't build the same foundation. Right. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's what I worry about losing because if they're just another team, that's, you know, like it's a lot easier for me to ignore a team. That's just another team, you know? So.
01:11:48
Speaker
All right, well, that's probably a good place for us to call this show. Thanks to everyone for sending in the questions. Thanks to Full Pool Wines, of course, for sponsoring us. I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lickipee. This is No Study Yet This. And remember, you will never get alone.
01:12:10
Speaker
Green Douglas, where were the waters cut through? Down to wild mountains and tangents you flew Canadian Northwest to the ocean so blue It's Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Roll On, Columbia Roll On Your power is turning our darkness to dawn Roll On, Columbia Roll On
01:12:47
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!