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Secure Men Don't Chase Validation—Here's Why
49 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of The Men’s Collective Podcast, Travis Goodman sits down with Quentin Decamp to explore what it really means for a man to become secure.
This conversation goes deep into attachment, masculinity, codependency, the nice guy pattern, womanizing, self-betrayal, emotional validation, and how men can begin to move from approval-seeking into values-led living.
Quentin shares parts of his own story, including how he moved from being the “good boy,” the nice guy, and the womanizer into deeper self-awareness, secure attachment, and a more grounded masculine identity. We talk about how men often confuse performance with confidence, avoidance with freedom, and emotional suppression with strength.
We also explore how early family dynamics, enmeshment, neglect, and unresolved emotional wounds can shape the way men relate to women, intimacy, fatherhood, and themselves. Quentin describes how men can begin to identify the false self, break old patterns, and stop trying to earn love through performance, pleasing, chasing, or proving.
In this episode, we cover:
- Why men perform masculinity instead of feeling secure
- The attachment wound behind the nice guy pattern
- How codependency shows up in men
- Why womanizing can be a form of avoidance
- The difference between worth and value
- Why men chase validation in relationships
- How self-betrayal keeps men stuck
- What secure masculinity can look like
- How men can become more emotionally grounded without oversharing or collapsing
- Why men need other men, mentors, and community
- How values help men stop living from approval
This episode is for men who want to stop repeating old relationship patterns, build healthier intimacy, become more secure, and live with more integrity in their relationships, family, and inner life.
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube
🌐 Learn more at menscollective.co or travisgoodmanlmft.com
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INSTAGRAM: MENSCOLLECTIVE.CO
WATCH ON YOUTUBE: WATCH HERE
Connect and Support Travis:
YouTube: Travis Goodman
Instagram: @travis.goodman.lmft
Web: TravisGoodmanLMFT.com
Follow Quentin: Instagram: @quentin.g.decamp
Music by Scott Buckley – released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
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Transcript
Introduction to Self-Betrayal and Energy in Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
But in all of that, in that process, I was like constantly wearing masks, not being myself. So I would keep attracting people who betrayed me the way I was betraying myself. That was a reflection. So I could eventually awake. A lot of men think the problem is the woman who left, the relationship that ended, or the pain that they can't shake. But what if part of the pain is revealing where you left yourself first.
Introduction of Quentin DeCamp and Key Themes
00:00:23
Speaker
Today I'm joined by Quinta DeCamp and we're talking about attachment, we're talking about masculinity, the nice guy pattern, codependency, womanizing, self-betrayal, and what it means to become a secure man.
Quentin's Journey of Wearing Masks and Seeking Validation
00:00:35
Speaker
Well, Quinton, I'm so stoked that you're on the show and decided to have this conversation. And just based on your work and me following you and seeing all the work you're doing, I think really aligns with what I'm doing here at the Men's Collective and the work I'm doing with Men and Fathers.
00:00:49
Speaker
and And you shared a little bit about back and forth before we jumped on to today. and My first question really is when you look back at your life, where do you see yourself kind of masking or maybe more stuck in a performance proving yourself versus actually feeling secure?
00:01:07
Speaker
Thanks. Thanks for asking. It's a good question. So I was looking at um like years and years ago when I was like really driven by all this program. And I think like if I have to define performance, it's like Carl Jung talked about the false self and the creation of the self that is inauthentic or false that we are going to use to get some sort of significance of validation in our lives.
00:01:36
Speaker
ah But that is not you. That will be based on some level of betrayal. And generally what happens is when we are taught to become someone else as a child that we want to be, we're going to start to create all this performative mask because we had to, that's that's a
Family Dynamics and Emotional Imbalance
00:01:56
Speaker
survival mechanism. So for me, it started with, you know, being the good boy.
00:02:01
Speaker
So being the good boy, having like really great grades, having to, to perform to get the validation and validation approval of my father, but also everyone in my family. My father as i was really neglectful and I was raised in a family of women. So when we have that, this mask proof being raised by ah family a family of women, when there's a lot of feminine energy, but not enough masculine energy, internally what I did is like I became overly emotional.
00:02:37
Speaker
and try to cover that with a false self. And then i will perform with women constantly chasing the womb.
Understanding Anima and Emotional Imbalance
00:02:46
Speaker
So I call that chasing the womb because it's like, if especially if men are driven by overdeveloped, what we call an overdeveloped anima, which is the the feminine in a man and animus is going to be the masculine in a woman.
00:03:01
Speaker
If the anima is overly developed or too wounded, we are going to to have like a overly developed feminine or wounded feminine.
00:03:12
Speaker
And then we are going to start to define our self through that prism, which become a prison. So really, where did I start to to create this false self and like to perform?
Performance and Self-Betrayal Realization
00:03:27
Speaker
The whole life was a sort of performance, right? I was constantly lying because I didn't have any direction. i was doing a job that I was not satisfied in. So I would create that kind of life where I wanted people to see me in a better light because I was addicted to see myself in a negative light.
00:03:48
Speaker
And so because I, even if we look at societies, there is no real process and no proper individuation process. So I was unmatched with all the women in my family.
00:04:02
Speaker
So what I was looking at, it's constantly trying to unmatched with women outside of me. And it would be like probably between, I would say, 14 years old to 29 years
Enmeshment and Personal Authenticity
00:04:12
Speaker
old. It was constantly driven by the feminine. So looking for sex, looking for attention, looking for the gaze, looking for validation, which overly developed my anima over time.
00:04:22
Speaker
And then we become, I don't like the term like men become more feminine, but we become very emotional. And from that place, like I would perform at the beginning with like even some layers of love bombing at the beginning of a relationship or having dating process.
00:04:40
Speaker
The problem with that is that life will always ask you to to lose this mask. So our subconscious wants to reinforce it. and It wants to maintain what's familiar.
00:04:53
Speaker
The ego is all about survival. So maintaining a false self in enough is a way for you to survive. While your soul is going to ask you to come back to true authenticity. And this is the battle, right? So I was attracting constantly people and circumstances that will on some level make me feel betrayed or betrayed me.
00:05:16
Speaker
Reveal the own self betrayal that I was doing with myself by maintaining some sort of mass that were not me. So my biggest emotional negative attachment was to betrayal or being
Betrayal and Family Expectations
00:05:28
Speaker
betrayed.
00:05:28
Speaker
My family asked me to betray myself to become a version of me that was satisfied their needs. Then I become that and I wanted to find a woman that will satisfy my needs.
00:05:41
Speaker
In all of that, in that process, I was like constantly wearing masks, not being myself. So I would keep attracting people who betray me the way I was betraying myself. That was a reflection. So I could eventually awake.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah. Like this is why I oftentimes see ah individuation or like we don't have a lot of writ of passage anymore. We we can see lot of men doing that.
00:06:08
Speaker
So I believe that the new writ of passage for men is actually a relationship. We are going to meet a woman or a couple of women that going to break our hearts in order for us to break the false self,
00:06:21
Speaker
that we have um taken on sometimes most of our lives. But because we don't have the manual, like a lot of people lose themselves by losing a woman, not realizing that the woman that leave you is to reflect back how you were leaving yourself behind by wearing this mask. So that was my story around performing. Does that answer your question?
Transition from Good Boy to Womanizer
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that the role, role you took on was the good, the good boy. Right. And, yeah um, dad wasn't around, a lot of women were running around your life, but I, I became good at performance. So grades, you know, yeah that was an identity, a mask. And so, you know, that was how you, I'm assuming got acceptance or great, you know, attention or love or, or that you were enough. I'm i'm assuming to to some degree. Yeah.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, the good boy was like my way to become compliant to my family. And then I think like turning 2021, I went the opposite way and I became the bad boy. Okay. The womanizer, which was like as a way to define my family. But what I was doing by becoming a womanizer,
00:07:30
Speaker
is that, and this is a bit more advanced for people listening to us, it's like when you are unmatched, especially with a devouring mother, what we call a devouring mother is a mother or a woman in your family that is going to devour your sense of self, and then your authenticity cannot come forward.
00:07:48
Speaker
So by becoming either the good boy or the womanizer, I will maintain myself unmatched with the woman in my family, Because what happened with the devouring mother is like, she doesn't want you to let go.
00:08:02
Speaker
So that structure that she's imprinted within me would drive me to become a womanizer.
Enmeshment, Trauma Bonds, and Boundaries
00:08:07
Speaker
So I wouldn't let go of the family the woman in my family. And for those listening, real quick, can you just, just in a sentence, is you know when you say enmeshment, for those listening, can you just quickly define that and devour it, like an example of devouring mother? Because i think it's important that we like put it in the boots on the ground. Like ah if a guy's listening, what does that actually mean?
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So enmeshment is when you are going to um develop, i'm I'm using carefully the word trauma bond, because like really trauma bond is based on the wound of betrayal. So a trauma bond is someone that is going to ask you on some level to betray yourself and you become trauma bonded to that person.
00:08:46
Speaker
And you don't know what's yours, what's theirs, and the house that contains everything. It's all blurred because the the boundaries have been disrespected and crushed, basically.
00:08:57
Speaker
A devouring mother is a mother that is wounded and so wounded that she is going to ask her children to meet her needs. And in the process of that, she's going to devour the sense of self of the child under the form of like...
00:09:14
Speaker
Asking the child to become the version of of them she wants, as opposed to letting the child authenticity coming forward.
Strategies for Breaking Free from Enmeshment
00:09:23
Speaker
So when we walk with a devoured sense of self, it's like, I don't know who I am.
00:09:28
Speaker
I don't know ah what my life should be. I don't know my values. i I don't have much leadership in my life. I really don't want know where to go. I don't know how to connect with myself because my whole life was about pleasing my mother or my grandmother. So we can have the people pleaser, the nice guy, or even the manipulative.
00:09:51
Speaker
Well, manipulation is in like people pleasing and a nice guy as well. And enmeshment is like when you are still on some level attached and you have an individuated from your mother. So it looks like constantly prioritizing your mother over your partner, for example.
Archetypes and Personal Development
00:10:12
Speaker
or ah constantly pleasing your mother or being at her beck and call or not being able to set boundaries with her because you are afraid of retaliation and you will will be driven by guilt because the devouring mother will use guilt as a way to bond you to her.
00:10:30
Speaker
she An example of that would be like what? An example of guilt, like what would that look like for a guy listening? Yeah, so for example, like if like you have a partner and and you know like one one day your mother wants to see you and you say, no, no, I have a date with my i a date with my girlfriend, I can't. And she's like, oh, she matters more than me.
00:10:51
Speaker
And she starts to guilt trip you into into like, and that perpetuates the enmeshment. Yeah. think the one that came to mind that I heard that they heard often like that is like, if you loved me, you would...
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. If you love me, you would do this and that. Right. Right. Right. Or like, oh, she's more important than me, but I'm your mother. Yeah. This type of thing. yeah um And again, for people listening, because I know that some women can be triggered by the the term devouring mother. So devouring mother is an archetype.
00:11:26
Speaker
I think that was like found by Carl Jung. We can see like devouring aspect in in more and more men. ah But generally, the archetype are the devouring mother versus the neglectful father.
Impact of Parental Manipulation on Self-Worth
00:11:43
Speaker
But because polarity have kind of shift, I can also see now devouring father and neglectful mother as well. But it's an archetype. It's not to blame men women by any means. It's just an archetype that have been created.
00:11:58
Speaker
And glad you said that because you're right. Archetypes are not actually, you know, um, assigned to certain genders. I mean, they're archetypes. And so I'm glad you said that for those listening, cause it's good to know what archetypes are, what they actually, they're representational, not only women, only men like, but yeah, it's a concept. So thanks for saying that. think it makes it more palatable because I've heard that so many times in my office, I'm sure you have too, is like, well,
00:12:21
Speaker
you know, my parents said this, if you love me, I would do this, or they're more important or, and they feel that like, and that's the invention was I can't, again, differentiate and having a healthy boundaries. Okay. But I feel like I have to, because my I'm worthless or I'm failing or I'm not enough or I'm bad, right? It's so wrong of me. And so then it creates this dynamic.
Self-Worth and Societal Expectations
00:12:43
Speaker
Like you said, it's like, I have no sense of self, right?
00:12:46
Speaker
I get lost. I get sucked in. Yeah, and that's what abusers will do because if we had generally a devouring mother or like a narcissistic parent,
00:13:01
Speaker
Again, like people people can have... like There's a lot of you know talk along around narcissism. Not everyone is a narcissist. You can have narcissistic traits we need to delineate with like really ah npd NPD as well, like a narcissistic personality disorder.
00:13:19
Speaker
But even if you have like abusive parents, what they do is like they start to break the innocence of the child, really, with the guilt that you were mentioning, right? Say, if you love me, you should do this.
00:13:32
Speaker
This is what children do for their parents. And what happens is like if we don't dissolve the structure within us that was imprinted by an abusive parent, we are going to attract in our lives women that are reflection of the mother that hurt us,
00:13:50
Speaker
Or oftentimes for women, they're going to attract men that are reflection of the neglectful
Healing from Betrayal and Shifting Perspectives
00:13:56
Speaker
father as a way to realize how have I become my own mother o my own father to myself?
00:14:05
Speaker
Because a lot of people talk about, you know, our relationship are mirrors, but we need to be a bit more specific than that. It's like oftentimes when I look, it's like, okay, I will attract this woman that sometimes will be abusive or angry. And mean, it's like,
00:14:20
Speaker
what I, the exercise that I've done, especially after a four years relationship that end up with a massive betrayal from her, what I was like, it's like, because that people can be damaged for years and years and start blaming all gender because they want say were betrayed a few times.
00:14:38
Speaker
What I realized is like, okay, if there were that much of a betrayal at the end, where did I betray myself in a relationship? And when I look at that, I was like, The number
Personal Growth and Past Conditioning
00:14:49
Speaker
of times I betray myself in the relationship was equivalent to pain and the betrayal she did at the end.
00:14:54
Speaker
And then I was like, okay, that has nothing to do with Anna. Where am I betraying myself? Where can I awake from that? And it's like her being like, okay.
00:15:05
Speaker
And it takes time, but like seeing her as a gift as opposed to a curse, because in the end, the curse is within me. If I keep blaming someone outside of me, we don't want to justify hurtful behavior.
00:15:18
Speaker
But when I started to ask myself in what way, what she did to me, I was already doing that with myself. And I was just attracting a reflection of that. Then I was like, okay, so life was delivering someone that was doing the same thing I was doing to me in order for me to awake.
Moving from Victim Mentality to Agency
00:15:36
Speaker
The problem is that society and a lot of cultures are doing that is they keep focusing on blaming the other person. He was a narcissist. She was like this. He was like that. And I'm like, okay, well, we're we're not moving forward. going to develop resentment all the time. Resentment is a poison within you.
00:15:53
Speaker
And that over time is going to create a lot of disease for you. So why don't we try to collapse everything together? that you've learned in childhood that caused you to attract people like that, again, you don't wake up in the morning saying like, I want to attract these people. And it's not your fault for you to attract them, but then it's your responsibility to deal with what was implanted in you as a child. And sometimes it it can feel unfair.
00:16:19
Speaker
It's like, why do I have to take care of that? Well, on some level, we've chose that before incarnating if people believe about that. On some level, everyone is right for you at a certain amount of time, even the most abusive. I know it's a hard concept, but I'm able to own that because I worked through it.
00:16:36
Speaker
I worked through like so many different types of abuse and I had to awake from that to be able to help people. So yeah, sorry, I want a little bit on the tangent here. But ah yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
No, it was wonderful. No, Quentin, thank you. I thought that was great because it gave so much context to that. We can get stuck in his blaming, which is that victim mentality. And so it really robs us of our own agency to change because if it's just their fault, they're just the narcissist or the whatever, well, then I don't have to actually take a look in the mirror. And I think what you said was so poignant is, um you know, the amount of times I've betrayed myself.
00:17:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm. is probably equivalent, maybe if not more, to the betrayal of the other. And that's, what is that like to, I mean, first, what was it like for you to journey to that point of realizing that, but also what's it like to help other men and fathers journey that path themselves?
Journey from Self-Abandonment to Self-Loyalty
00:17:28
Speaker
Because that's a big, that's a big shift.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, so especially when we start framing like this, because most of people that I work with have done like sometimes five, 10 years therapy plus, and they are still stuck in that. And it's all about reframing for me when I realized that.
00:17:47
Speaker
Not all the anger and that I felt disappeared over time, but it helped tremendously being able to shift my mindset. but it It's like this person that I was with back back then that lasted four years, she also had a child.
00:18:03
Speaker
So for example, the way I betrayed myself was I didn't want to leave the relationship even if I was not in love with the person because I didn't want the child to feel abandoned, right? Because like she already felt abandoned by her father and I didn't want to create that. But in this, right, the one that I was abandoning was myself by trying to not make the child feel abandoned.
00:18:27
Speaker
Now, a lot of people have told me like, oh, but that was loyalty. You're so good. You were trying to be there for the child. Yeah, on paper, it's good. But in the end, I was the one abandoning myself.
Self-Betrayal in Relationships
00:18:38
Speaker
And so sometimes loyalty, a lot of people think they are loyal, but self-abandonment in these guys because they are not loyal to themselves. right So that was a betrayal. That was a betrayal. That was abandonment on my side.
00:18:52
Speaker
which at the end, what happened when when this woman left, I felt abandoned and betrayed. It was a playing out again of what happened in my childhood.
00:19:03
Speaker
But my need was to reveal what I've done with myself and being able to to shift that in a way or to frame that in a way where like people can see it Met with resistance or not. Like I have people that click right away and some people are very resisting. It's like, oh, but we are justifying abusive behavior. i'm Like, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.
00:19:26
Speaker
I'm saying like there were abusive behavior, but on some level, you may have seen the sign and you choose to stay. A lot of people don't want to say that. Sometimes it's like, oh, they betray me. It's like, how many times did you see something could happen?
00:19:43
Speaker
How many times? I'm like, why did you stay? And we can look at enmeshment or codependency all of that. But in the end, choices are important and we everything is going to be revealed
Emotional Processing and Personal Growth Struggles
00:19:56
Speaker
at the end. When there's a breakup, especially like all the emotion that we feel generally are the thing that we were not really looking at because the bond breaks. And in that, all the emotion we didn't take care of are coming up.
00:20:11
Speaker
And it's also the all the emotion in childhood. So being able to help people with that and and shift their perspective and not only the perspective, but also the body, because that's when we look at an emotional negative attachment, a prison, and we say the name of the prison, and there's a somatic opening in the body.
00:20:33
Speaker
the Now the prison is cracked open, and there's all this energy that was stored in them that is coming out. When we are able to do that, now internal shift, reality shift.
00:20:45
Speaker
And people think like, oh, I'm doing the work, all these great things are going to happen. Yes, they will. But in the bridge of that, the ego is going to fight for its survival. So sometimes it's like bringing and another person that might be worse than the previous one.
00:21:00
Speaker
So now it's obvious enough for you to, okay, I can see it now and I'm not going there. Like it's life or your soul testing you. I know a few people don't like the word testing, but it is.
00:21:12
Speaker
Life will test you to see if you are ready to go to the next level.
Confronting Internal Prisons and Resistance
00:21:17
Speaker
And it will throw a couple of monsters. Like, and I say monsters, sometimes they are. I got the i got the ah a very high level, I'm careful with the word bipolar because I know that lot of people can have that.
00:21:34
Speaker
But I got that and right after I was not listening, so I got really the narcissist and it broke broke me, broke me, broke me to my knees. like Everything about me wanted to die, but I...
00:21:48
Speaker
That's why I tell to people that have this thought, it's like, you don't want to die. It's just the programming that are asking to die. Yeah. Well, and and what and what clicked for you in that moment? sounds like these relationships and something happened where this part of you, this yeah piece of you wanted to die. i was like, hey, this is't this isn't, I think what I'm hearing is this is not really sustainable and are really working for me effectively anymore. So what was that shift for you of like pivoting to, okay, I got to look at my own self-betrayal. Like I got to shift this and and really look at examining what's bringing me here. So what was that process like for you to switch over?
Dissolving False Identities and Archetypes
00:22:22
Speaker
Well, the process started really with the breakup. Because I couldn't live, right? I was like, I was finding all the way why I shouldn't live. That's the, that was how my ego was trying to manipulate me.
00:22:34
Speaker
Because generally when we are manipulated by a parent, we are going to manipulate ourselves. And then we attract manipulative people. So that was the first thing. The second thing is like, yeah, like I mentioned before, I started to ask myself in everything that I've hurt me outside, in what way am I behaving like this towards me?
00:22:55
Speaker
i the I had the the chance to be supported by very high level people at that time. ah That gave me a few perspective. And then it was all about uncovering subconscious prison for me, one after the other.
00:23:10
Speaker
Uncovering subconscious prison, like this is why i do this work. Because on your own, the ego is very good at putting blind spots. Right? So it doesn't want to be seen.
00:23:21
Speaker
So it doesn't want to be seen for its own prisons. This is why like when you see the prison and you start to crack open, For some people, it dissolved.
00:23:32
Speaker
For some people, it created a lot of resistance. So for me, at prison, I was like, okay, it's dissolved now. And some prison were creating a lot of resistance. One of the prison that was created a lot of resistance is a prison that's called
Healing Archetypes and Gaining Self-Awareness
00:23:46
Speaker
I'm Nothing. So that's the name of the prison. And I'm Nothing was created because in my family, my parents argued constantly. So it was conflict and chaos.
00:23:59
Speaker
On the other side, had my aunt and my grandmother that treat me like the golden child. So there were like a nightmare here and a fantasy there. And so breaking free from this was so hard because on one hand, it felt like a I was nothing. And on the other hand, it felt like I was everything.
00:24:23
Speaker
When you have that prison, you will go into a relationship wanting to be everything for the person. and feeling like nothing. That created an archetype in me, which is the high share tyrant.
00:24:37
Speaker
The high share tyrant is the if we look at the high share and you have a toddler in the chair, it's like this is the three, five years old that is throwing a tantrum and wants everyone to be at his beck and call.
00:24:51
Speaker
So I was like that in relationship, high share tyrant. A couple of times I was called a narcissist. I thought I was a narcissist at some point, but it was that archetype that was like demanding everything and having my partner to do everything I wanted. Otherwise, I felt like nothing.
00:25:09
Speaker
So that prison was trying to reinforce itself with this archetype.
Relationship Dynamics and Childhood Needs
00:25:14
Speaker
So when I saw that, my actual relationship now, which is very healthy, went way better because that archetype was still playing for me. So that's a few steps.
00:25:26
Speaker
There's probably so much to talk about around the steps I've been in, but it it will take maybe three hours with each prison talking about that. No, that's okay. No, no, that's good. And I think that, i guess the question is that that high chair tyrant. Yeah. um You know, I guess in short, what do you think was really behind all that? What do you think the real need was that was unmet?
00:25:46
Speaker
So the eye chat around, and I'm nothing. It's insignificant. So it's like felt like i was not nothing with my parents. I didn't have my space. So the need that was not met was clearly like not feeling seen, heard, understood by my parents.
00:26:02
Speaker
But at at the same time, being put on a pedestal on the other side. Right, right, right. Nothing. Which is confusing, right? Super confusing. It's like polar polar, major polarization between and not seeing at all to now I'm this perfect Yeah.
00:26:16
Speaker
So what I developed was like, like having high protesting behavior, which is really like a toddler, like throwing like toys out of the crowd.
Conditional Love and Biological Factors in Relationships
00:26:27
Speaker
Yeah. Big protesting behavior because I was like, why don't you give me what I want? Because I was in match with the, with my aunt and my grandmother still.
00:26:37
Speaker
And that it management would be like you, the woman, you should be like them. And this is where I'm teaching that with men because I've learned that from my own mentor.
00:26:48
Speaker
And I'm saying to men, like your woman is never ever going to love you unconditionally. And it's a hard pill to swallow. Your mother can love you unconditionally.
00:27:00
Speaker
Maybe your daughter one day, but your woman, your partner is never going to love you unconditionally. And that's biology, by the way. She may love you, but like oftentimes women fall in love with three things.
00:27:12
Speaker
strength strength, security, and confidence. That's how biologically they fall in love with that. ah so they can have like preferences, like I want someone fun, muscular, all of that.
00:27:26
Speaker
but really what creates security in the nervous system because safety is their job, security is our job, security strength and confidence. That's what they fall in love with over and over again.
00:27:40
Speaker
And biologically, the first time I heard like, yeah, your woman is never going to love you unconditionally, there's a part of me that was like, oh, that hurts. But a part of me was so relieved because now I'm like, I can accept fully that the relationship is transactional.
Inherent Worth vs. Societal Value for Men
00:27:56
Speaker
I can accept fully that the relationship is conditional. And I can even like becoming better as a man because I am worthy because I exist, but my value depends how I can serve.
00:28:13
Speaker
And oftentimes we hear a bit too much like, yeah, men, like we need to do serve certain things. I think there is a saying that say women are born and men are made.
00:28:25
Speaker
right Women are born, men are made. Because women inherently, they can create life. The biggest miracle on the planet, they can literally create life with their body.
00:28:38
Speaker
So women are born, men are made. Our value is going to be tied to how much service we can give to this world. did this world So why is our worth, we're worthy as a birthright. It's already inherent.
00:28:55
Speaker
but our value has condition in it. And being able to look at this instead of like, because I had feminine coach and I say, yo, you don't need to do every anything to have value. Now I'm like, no, actually I need to do a few things and it's actually empower me.
00:29:12
Speaker
as opposed to do the opposite. It's empower me to go out there, be on purpose, wanting to provide more for my, my partner and my family.
Healthy Masculinity and Societal Roles
00:29:20
Speaker
It wants me to sharpen my skills and become better. And I haven't ceased to work on myself since like now six years when I started.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He says something interesting there that I want to hit on for a moment is that the worth and value, um, that men have inherent worth, but they have to, their value is the service to others.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah. And how much they can deliver. Yeah. How much they can provide as well. So worth is like an inherent, you know, like I have worth for being just being me, right? yeah um I don't have to prove that.
00:29:54
Speaker
Which i do think a lot of men, I still think a lot of men get that confused think they have to prove their worth think a lot of me get stuck in that lie that actually i have to prove worth I don't have inherent worth. Yeah, I think they kind of mix those together.
00:30:06
Speaker
yeah i think they kind of mix those together yeah in a way, in like a not healthy way, in kind of a fear-based way. Well, especially if you had parents that didn't nurture a good enough space for your sense of self to come forward.
00:30:24
Speaker
I don't know how to delineate between my worth and my value. No one taught me, right? Normally it's like supposed to be men, especially with boys, we are supposed to start to separate physically from the mother around seven, eight years old and spend more time with our dad. That is going to help us develop our healthy masculinity.
Challenges of Single Parenting and Masculinity
00:30:43
Speaker
the The issue and Uh, it's like, there's so many single mom now. i Like, I'm not blaming any of them. This is what's happening in the world. And I have a lot of single mother as, as a client.
00:30:58
Speaker
And they ask me, they, they understand, okay, I can't give everything to my child. I'm not supposed to do that. It's not supposed to be my job, but the dad is absent, doesn't want to take responsibility. And what can I do?
00:31:09
Speaker
So I'm saying like, okay, find good men. So generally go and put your boy in a martial arts somewhere. Because at least you are developing, you're sharpening your physique, your skills, your ah your ability to defend yourself, your ability ability to protect someone else.
00:31:27
Speaker
And also you're going to be surrounded martial arts. Generally you have better values. So you have a lot of courage, discipline, things like that. Because women are not supposed, like, there is a saying, you know, like, children are, it's a tribe job.
00:31:44
Speaker
It's not even supposed to be a two parents job. It's supposed to be whole community job. hu Right? so this is where value and worth, back back to saying that worth is really, like, yeah, inherent.
00:31:59
Speaker
I always say to people, because there is a big prison that is, I'm worthless. This is a prison that is like, have no value. Oh, I'm not valued. i have no value. I'm not
Overcoming Worthlessness and Parental Conditioning
00:32:10
Speaker
valued. We create an emotional negative attachment to being devalued. So generally, we devalue ourselves constantly in our mind.
00:32:17
Speaker
As opposed to I'm worthless, which is like way more dense and like it's very heavy. says There will be some shame and despair attached to it. But then generally, yeah, like especially if a parent was saying you, I don't want you, you're worthless, all of that, that can impact a lot.
00:32:37
Speaker
So it's deliating delineating between these two because you can't be worthless. It's not possible. You just have a program in your mind that is trying to lie to you the way your parent lied to you, which was making you believe that you're worthless because you didn't receive enough.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, value. you Yeah, go for it. And it's a hard thing to break, I think, sometimes too, especially if your blueprint or imprinting has been from the parent who's supposed to essentially show you know reinforce the worth, doesn't or takes it away, right? Because that's that's such a subconscious, deep blueprint that that becomes normal or true, quote unquote. And so then I operate at out of that space.
Proving Worth vs. Inherent Worth in Men
00:33:21
Speaker
And maybe that's when we have these protective parts. come I got to be the good the you know the please everyone or the good kid or the... yeah
00:33:27
Speaker
then we start to kind of in that a way, trying to reverse engineer that feeling of worthlessness because we've had to do it, or that's how I got my worth, which is that we just tied value with work together and kind of intermingle those narratives and not so healthy, effective way. And so we're kind of stuck in this constant perform, perform, prove, I got to prove my worth, which is really a vicious cycle.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah. um And this is why we're so confused at the moment because, know, Men think they don't have to prove anything. No, no, you don't have to prove your worth, but you have to sharpen yourself in order to be be in your healthy masculine.
00:34:03
Speaker
The healthy masculine go out there. It's like it's is on purpose. It's like he trained. It's healthy. It's like sharpening his skills. It's ah taking care of his nervous system, not spill everywhere.
00:34:19
Speaker
As men, we are also space holders. right So it's about like the the best thing, you know, like we say, protector provider for women, the best provision that
Emotional Availability and Healthy Boundaries
00:34:31
Speaker
you can give to your woman is being a space in order for to move her from ah sympathetic stress to parasympathetic safety.
00:34:42
Speaker
So being able to hold space for her, but again, to a certain extent. ah grown Men are being asked to become everything. i'm not I'm not my woman therapist or my partner therapist. I'm not her her girlfriend. There's a few things that I'm like, no, that's not mine to look at.
00:35:00
Speaker
That's not mine to take on. We are asking men to become everything and it's too much. right So I'm a here to hold space for my woman emotion and feelings to a certain extent. But sometimes I'm also going to say, hey, I can see that you you are escalating right now.
00:35:21
Speaker
right And I'm going to ask you like maybe to take 15 minutes to regulate yourself. And then I'm here to be able to hear because when you're like that, I can't hear you. Hmm.
00:35:34
Speaker
Right? Like there is something out there that is like, oh, if he's man enough, he can hold space for all my chaos. No, that's being seen from a feminine lens, asking men to become everything for them.
00:35:46
Speaker
We are not here for that.
Conflict Resolution and Communication
00:35:48
Speaker
We are here to protect. We are here to provide. We are here to listen. We are here to be there. But we are also, we need healthy boundaries as well.
00:35:58
Speaker
e Right? Like men and women, they need group externally or professional if they want to take care of something. Hmm. Yeah, it goes back to the tribe, right? That it's it's more of ah it's a group that we need other relationships to support our healing work. And it reminded me something that that we still need boundaries. It reminds me of the Gottman's work, right? John and Julie Gottman, all their research on couples and what makes healthy couples flourish and healthy conflict, right? And they talk about that, that harsh startup versus a soft startup, right? That a harsh startup that like...
00:36:34
Speaker
if or this could also by the way if I'm coming at my spouse this way too right this is not just women at man but men towards it's both and right that I'm still responsible for my emotion in a way that if I'm leaking in an ineffective way like in rage I i can't expect my my wife to respond to feel safe enough to like hold that space because i'm too much and vice versa. So it's, Hey, right now, or I could say that as a man, like Hey, I'm noticing myself get a little bit heated. I need to take a break. So I, so I can be more composed to share my actual need from you because I'm getting to a place where I'm now going to, I'm feeling defensive or whatever.
00:37:13
Speaker
And you're right. It's not unlimited thing. It's, we need to be aware of ourself. and of the other to know when to set that boundary for them or for ourself, because that's actually part of knowing self and knowing what's my limit.
Victim vs. Authentic Vulnerability in Relationships
00:37:25
Speaker
That's a good thing. Because a harsh start would be if I'm just bleating, you know, leaking and raging on my spouse. Well, that's, that's not leading towards healthy connection and conflict. That's actually leading towards more dysregulation, shutting down and not safe. That's kind of what I was hearing from that. Is that? Absolutely.
00:37:42
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, Even for, I've seen a very, very big shift when, because we we hear that also a lot on social media, it's like men being asked to be emotional and vulnerable.
00:38:00
Speaker
And there is, in my opinion, there is two types of vulnerability. There is victim vulnerability and authentic vulnerability. ah The victim vulnerability is like people that are going to push like, oh, you can't hear you. I need to share something, but you can't hear me because probably I'm projecting.
00:38:19
Speaker
And then I'm going to label the other person not vulnerable or not emotionally available enough because they cannot hold space for me. But like, what space are you asking to be held?
00:38:31
Speaker
Is it like, have you processed that and contain that? Or like is it spilling? So victim vulnerability, it's also like constantly people that think are vulnerable, they are just really oversharing.
Managing Emotional Disclosure in Men
00:38:44
Speaker
And there is such a thing as oversharing, ah especially if you don't ah take care of that for yourself. Now, authentic vulnerability, what I've seen, and I'm saying that because I was very, very emotional, very sensitive, and constantly sharing everything with my partner.
00:39:06
Speaker
And over time, what I will see is like every time I will share my problem, my concern with my partner, little bit too much the next day or the day after I would see her nervous system starting to shut down she would have more pressure she would start to be a bit more tense because on some level their nervous system is not meant to hold space for us too much that's why I mentioned men are the space holder but we are not dumpster either it's like I tell men like
00:39:42
Speaker
Ask your friend, your good friend that are like objective. Ask a group of men or ask a professional to hold space for you. Don't bring to your woman.
00:39:53
Speaker
Every time I say that, I see relationship getting better and better and better because it doesn't put stress.
Male Support Networks and Personal Growth
00:40:03
Speaker
So here's what I would do. Like if it's like ah authentic vulnerability and um I'm practicing and I'm still practicing with my partner, I would go and I say, if she sends something in me,
00:40:14
Speaker
I would say, yeah, I'm going through something right now. It has nothing to do with you. So what I'm going to do is like I'm going to take the next maybe couple days to figure it out what's coming up for me. I'm going to handle that.
00:40:25
Speaker
And when I have more information and it's handled, I may share with you or not. ah That's how I look at this. And it's still hard. Sometimes I want to share with her and I'm like,
00:40:37
Speaker
I've seen it does not work. So I'm going to do that, work on myself. And then like maybe most of the time I don't even have to share with her anymore because I've handled it myself. So I recommend that for men yeah as opposed to women bringing a bit more to their men because it helps the men sharpen
Creating Meaningful Connections and Mentorship
00:40:56
Speaker
as well.
00:40:56
Speaker
Their sense of groundedness and stuff. Mm-hmm. One follow-up question that, and as I'm thinking about, as I start to wrap up, there's two questions that land in me is like one One, I hear that, but I also often hear from a lot of men and fathers that I've worked with, I don't really have guy friends I do that with.
00:41:14
Speaker
Yeah. like There's no one. even And even their spouse sometimes. Usually it's like it's just they're holding all of this internally. So i get I guess it sounds like you've heard that too since you said yes. So where would you recommend a man starting if they're in that place? I tend to hear that often.
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like because we are very busy, we have to work. There is children here and there for for some people. It's very important. And that's why there is more and more men's group online.
00:41:42
Speaker
But I mean, like the quickest way for you to be around men is again, go and do martial arts. but I'm like, i want I'm going back to boxing. But so a lot of people do jujitsu, be around this type of men at the beginning.
00:41:57
Speaker
So like when you practice, you can remove them maybe that frustration, that energy. find Find a ah good male coach that can guide you through things.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, it'd a I hear the loneliness epidemic. And even i was um i was using that a little bit as an excuse. i was telling my partner, it's very hard. My my friends are in New Cahedonia or in France. I didn't have much time to make friends in in Australia. And she said, if you really want to, you would.
00:42:27
Speaker
And it ah it annoys me. And at the same time, she's right. If I really wanted to, would go out there and find if anything. Try one after the other. So oftentimes it's like, but it doesn't start like that. It might start by being coached by someone like me, like you, where we start to excavate things. And, you know, when we excavate things and we start to liberate ourselves from this prison or emotion that are stored or reactivated again and again, then we have more motivation now to get out there.
Mother-Son Dynamics and Intimacy
00:43:01
Speaker
Now you go in a group. Now you can process more. and And now you can be better for for your family. But I always say like the more you ask your woman to hold space for you, the more you ask her to become your mother.
00:43:13
Speaker
And that's where we perpetuate the enmeshment often. And what i' what I've heard is to say that is I know that, you know, especially if we're practically speaking, is that I don't think women really want to be the mother of their partner.
00:43:29
Speaker
No, not at all. No. And I think when I see that dynamic, that's where resentment builds, where you know I see it online, that the tiredness, the burnt-outness women, especially in heterosexual couples, that they're burnt out because they feel like they're mothering, and especially if they have kids, they have to mother another child. 100%.
00:43:47
Speaker
And so it's that impetus to change for the man, but also we're dealing with, I think to your point included, there's this, there's a socialization, a training, a blueprint of what I was taught, how to navigate the world as a man. and In your case, like I was, I had to be good or this, and I pushed away. And so and a way I perpetuated some of this very thing of enmeshment. didn't even know it. I think that's sometimes the stuckness of this all is that we're not even consciously aware of it. Most people are not. And then we are like,
00:44:16
Speaker
Oh, but like, she doesn't give me sex and all that. But with men, when and i when I work with couples, especially, I really make sure that I understand both sides. But I work one-on-one. I don't bring them together.
Fatherhood, Partnership Roles, and Boundaries
00:44:29
Speaker
At least at the beginning.
00:44:31
Speaker
But like with men, generally there is an image somewhere. is a man asking the woman to become their mother on some level, unconsciously. You don't wake up saying like, my partner is my mother now.
00:44:43
Speaker
But it's like, even like when you're when your wife becomes a mother, your needs go at the bottom of the list. Mm-hmm. like And we have to accept that.
00:44:56
Speaker
like It's going to be the child. The child is the woman territory. And then the men all space for that. So your needs, at least for the first year, is going to be at the bottom of the list.
00:45:10
Speaker
But you still can meet plenty of your needs. But for from your woman or your partner, your feminine partner, your needs come last. And this is where oftentimes we have a lot of divorce are when the child is one or two years old because sex drop even more.
00:45:28
Speaker
And I always say to men, okay, like what's happening here and there? It's like, will you have sex with your mother? The generalists are like, no, of course not. Like, yeah, but you're asking her to be your mother.
00:45:40
Speaker
So your mother is not going to be sexually attracted to you. So why, if you make her your mother subconsciously, how can she want you? You can't. Now you have a mother-boy dynamic.
00:45:52
Speaker
and So sex is going to drop, of course. It's like, and we have all this thing now with Christianity and stuff, like, okay, women should give that, should give this and all that. It's like...
00:46:05
Speaker
I don't like to look at that. I'm looking at what is all the limitation you guys have internally that is preventing the relationship to flourish. And let's start to
Biological and Subconscious Relationship Dynamics
00:46:15
Speaker
remove that. But let's see teach also biology to women and to men.
00:46:20
Speaker
Like women have a 24, 28 cycle. We have a 24-hour cycle. My testosterone at the end of the day, yeah I'm making a rule with my partner now. I'm like...
00:46:31
Speaker
after six o'clock, don't bring don't bring a problem to me, right? Because my testoine my testosterone is low. I'm like, bring a problem at any time and we can deal with it.
00:46:44
Speaker
But past 6 p.m. or 8 p.m., we don't start a conflict because nothing is going to come out well of it. Bring it tomorrow when my testosterone is high and I can really listen to you and i I'm going to have a drive to help you.
00:46:59
Speaker
m So we start to adjust like that. It's like my partner. I'm like, okay, like your cycle is coming. What do you need? and How can I help you? What can i how much can I take on? So you can relax during that's that phase of the cycle.
00:47:14
Speaker
So it's really understanding at the same time, the biology of, we had a lot of conflict at the beginning. My my partner wanted to go out a lot at night and that was my worst time.
00:47:26
Speaker
So we started to find compromise in that because my testosterone would be really low at a massive amount of work. I would coach people. I didn't want to go out at night.
00:47:38
Speaker
Her would be different. So we find ways to understand. But if we understand subconscious element, biological element, um and different other element, now we can really, truly understand the other person.
00:47:55
Speaker
Most of the time people are just like asking the other person to meet the needs they are not meeting for themselves.
Chronic Dissatisfaction and Expectations in Relationships
00:48:01
Speaker
Or the are asking their woman to become their mother or like women are asking the men to be everything.
00:48:10
Speaker
Right. And yeah we got to let go of this rising entitlement. Right. It's like moving from like, you should meet my need to how can I be better for you?
00:48:22
Speaker
And how you can be better for me so we can strive in a relationship. I think it's even Tony Robbins that says they have a ah game with, and we we can like Tony Robbins or not, but he said, we have a game with my partner.
00:48:37
Speaker
It's like, we really want to get good at meeting the other person needs. So we have a competition ah being and striving to be better for the other person. that's That's great.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's a positive game. It's a game of, these's are very it's actually, it's very positive versus, yeah, I'm not actually, winning here is actually winning for both of us. It's not. Yeah. But I hear, here I do hear a lot of women where the man is not emotionally mature enough. I get that.
00:49:05
Speaker
But also I've seen women like being like, my man is not emotionally available enough. I'm like, okay, so does he cry? Does he get angry?
00:49:17
Speaker
ah Does he laugh? Yeah. She's like, yeah, of course. I'm like, okay, so he's emotionally available, not to the emotion you want him to be available. Right? So sometimes it's like we globalize things instead of being like, okay, what is really the issue?
00:49:34
Speaker
It's like a lot of women don't feel safe in their relationship. I get that. But there's a lot of women who use I'm not safe as a manipulation tactic as well. It's like, oh, it doesn't make me feel safe.
00:49:47
Speaker
And then you ask them, okay, how do you define safety? What makes you safe? What behavior make you feel unsafe? And they can't really answer. yeah And I'm like, yeah it's it's not that you don't feel safe. I think that you you actually say that you're not safe so you can perpetuate a narrative around maybe your needs are not met or
Building Healthier Relationships
00:50:09
Speaker
something like that.
00:50:09
Speaker
And journalists are like, okay, I've never seen it that way. That's another protesting behavior. Yeah, different type. Yeah, yeah. And then the rising entitlement is creating a lot of chronic dissatisfaction.
00:50:23
Speaker
Because we are asking our partner to be our everything and it does not work. and i And it comes from ah someone that was highly, highly codependent. Yeah, no, you're right. They they can't. um And I think it's an issue is that we're relying on our one person to be everything. And no, we need other relationships outside that are one for the relationship. I think vitally important. You know, who am I hanging around? Are they for my relationship or anti? Right. And if they're for as important and can they hold my space and vice versa that we both need? I have guy friends that I connect with outside of my marriage.
00:50:57
Speaker
that I know I can talk to and show up with the holds from other, like you, to your point, other energy that I'm carrying to kind of get my head on straight to think the process stuff so that I am more clear. Now it's imperfect. I don't think we're always perfect. Sometimes we do leak. It's just part of being human, right? And there's various factors, but it's about the practice.
00:51:14
Speaker
And what are my intentions? And do I have that space? I know I can show up. And that takes time to facilitate, to nurture these relationships. To your point, if it's really meaningful, we will find it. Now, there's barriers. I get that. It's not always easy. It takes time. to want to be mindful of some people that really don't have it. And that's also risky, right? There's a lot of layers to all this. um and ah And I'm wondering, as we kind of wrap up, you know, for those that are listening, the men, you know, men and women that are listening, but really men,
00:51:40
Speaker
who kind of find themselves identifying with some of our conversation today, like what is one just that
Recommendations for Personal Growth
00:51:46
Speaker
you would recommend? One honest step that he can take this week toward becoming kind of like walking this path of more secure, more authentic self. Like what is, what would you say to start right now?
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah. So it's a good question because there's so much thing that comes to my mind. the if it's a number one step to take during the week is really, if you don't do the work, start doing the work somewhere.
00:52:10
Speaker
Find a group of men, for find a men's coach. Then if you are already doing the work, I would say there's a couple of things for a man to go through to really heal, being his healthy masculine and therefore be the best version he can become. Otherwise, like generally, a lot of people do this work, but they don't excavate the shadows. So they become the best version of their limited self.
00:52:38
Speaker
Right? It's like we're trying to build o ourselves up as opposed to removing what's in the way of me being already whole. I'm already whole. The illusion of that is just the fracture that I carry.
00:52:52
Speaker
So the way to become a healthy masculine is number one, it's splitting from your mother. Splitting from your mother internally. Right?
00:53:02
Speaker
You can individuate from her externally. So meaning she does not control any of the thing in your life. But internally, it's more like what qualities that are not helping me, that I've inherited from my mother, that I need to individuate from.
00:53:19
Speaker
So I would say that is a very important thing. Heal from any psychological conflict that you have. And is there like a book you'd recommend to start with that, that you would say start here, that you like, that you found helpful?
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting because most of my, everything that I've learned was like with mentors. So i'm I'm someone that actually haven't read a lot of book. i've ah've I've learned with like a very powerful individual.
Role of Mentorship in Personal Development
00:53:46
Speaker
But for men, there's a couple of books, like for example, Nice Guy is like... um What's the name again? night No More Mr. Nice Guy is that book. ah Iron John, I think is this. Oh, yeah. Iron John. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good book. To excavate really like internal conflict and shadows, you need to...
00:54:09
Speaker
you need to go being coached by someone that is well-versed in this. Yeah. Right. Because the mentorship, it's like a mentorship. It's like the yeah the wise man. It's the, it's the shaman. It's the, why it's the person who's lived this and has the experiences to listen and hold space. Yeah.
Conclusion and Resources for Development
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah. 100%, especially for the blind spot, because a book for that won't be enough.
00:54:30
Speaker
No, you're right, because we could self ah we we are really good at self-confirming and self-denial and like rationalizing our own behavior without seeing. I mean, that's pretty simple to do. So you're right. We do need a mirror.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Or even reconfirming identity. like People, they read a book around the attachment style. That's it. i' have an anxious attachment, so you should reassure me. I'm like, you are reconfirming an identity right now. You're not dissolving it.
00:54:56
Speaker
Right, right, right, right. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So we do need – I think to some degree what I'm hearing is we could we can only do so much self – I'm going to put this in quotes – self-help.
00:55:07
Speaker
Yeah. But it does in a sense it requires relationship. I think to fully integrate into Heal is we need our own capacity, but then we need to turn to other mentors, people have done the work to help guys. We need both. Yeah, 100%.
00:55:23
Speaker
And as we do that, we, we come home and it's been a great conversation. There's so many ways, some other things I wanted to ask because it's just like, you can talk I'm sure for three, four, five hours on this because there's all this nuance. But if, if, if guys wanted to find your work and they want to check you out, or even women listening to this, they want to find you where can they find you? Where can they go?
00:55:41
Speaker
Yeah. So most of my work is on Instagram. So it's at Quentin.g.decamp. So Quentin is Q-U-E-N-T-I-N.g.decamp.
00:55:54
Speaker
So that's mainly ah all of my work is on this. So they can to contact me, link in my bio. ah The email address is hello at QuentinDecamp.com for people that would like to know more about my mentorship or stuff like this.
00:56:10
Speaker
um And yeah, that's pretty much it And those that are listening and what and or watching, is this will be you'll find Quentin's Instagram handle, an email address listed below. That'll be clickable or copyable, copy and pasteable that you can find.
00:56:25
Speaker
um But Quentin, I just you know thank you for the work you're doing and and and and how you're doing it and from your experience, but also from your own further train with others. So I just appreciate what you're doing.
00:56:37
Speaker
and how you're differentiating and how you're helping people really step into the true self. So blessings to your work and thanks for being on today. Yeah, thank you, Travis. And thank you for holding such a good space and asking great questions. appreciate you.