Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 350: Prelude to a bonfire
68 Plays3 years ago
In which Jeremiah plays out an analogy that compares the Timbers winning MLS Cup first driving a "For All Mankind"-esque space race for North American soccer dominance. Richard Farley joined us, too.
This week's music: Perry Como - "Seattle", "RVIVR - "Ocean Song", Woody Guthrie - "Roll On Columbia", "Your Journey Begins" - OurMusicBox (Jay Man) (CC BY 4.0)
Thanks to James Woollard, Sounders Public Address Announcer, for doing our sponsor reads. You can follow him on Twitter at @BritVoxUS - if you’re looking for a British Voice to advertise your business or non-profit, please reach out to him.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of No Sadietes is sponsored by Full Pool Wines, a Seattle-based wine seller who recently released their first book, 36 Bottles of Wine. The ethos of the book, a highly curated look at wine categories that provide exceptional value right now, should be familiar to full pool readers. But there's loads of fresh content, and since it's not trying to sell any wine through the book, there's a bit more of a sass factor.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's food. Lots of it. Fullpool's unique writing styles applied to recipes like leftover Thanksgiving, turkey, schmaltz-a-ball soup, and pregnancy nachos. This book can be purchased through Sasquatch Books. Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! I want to say bye-bye! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS Cup win!
00:00:52
Speaker
important the KSA's genius. Here comes Rui Diaz through the middle to crowd it for Seattle. They have climbed the mountain and now are masters of all that they survey. Michael Odero leaves absolutely no doubt the Saldars rule the region. Seattle Saldars is convinced
00:01:18
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. How does this one feel? This feels fucking awesome. The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle. And the hills the greenest green in Seattle.
00:01:53
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Is that what you young people call twerking? I have no idea. I don't know.
00:02:04
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adiata, sponsored by Full Poll Wines and our newest sponsor, Watson's Counter. This is episode 350 and we're recording on Wednesday, July 6th,
Hosts Introduction and Podcast Setup
00:02:14
Speaker
2022. I'm your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me as usual is Aaron Campo and Lickit P. As well as friend of the show, Richard Farley. Welcome back, Richard. Oh man, it's good to be back. I'm so happy to be here. This feels like home in some ways.
00:02:31
Speaker
It was the home you never had. Yeah, no, it was the...
00:02:42
Speaker
It was the fact that honestly, when you were doing the intro right now and you said lick it, it's like, you know, you and me in error, we're talking a little bit off air before you hit record. The fact that it goes beyond just a few of us reminds me that, you know, I've been, I've been hanging around this podcast for a little bit. There are some roots that go beyond just the soil and it's nice to be able to see like the full, it's nice to be able to see the full plant bloom.
00:03:08
Speaker
Yeah. So how are you doing, Aaron? Do you have any good plant analogies? No, I don't. My cat doesn't ruin plants anymore. Just like she doesn't ruin the podcast anymore. So that's, I guess. Yeah, that's right. Good old days of the cat ruining the podcast. I have a door now. That's not really an analogy. That's just a statement of
00:03:36
Speaker
In fact, the statement of purpose.
Seattle Sounders vs Portland Timbers Rivalry
00:03:40
Speaker
Well, so it's, we're at the midway point of the season for the Sounders at least, and starting the second half of the season is going to be a big one. The home game against Portland Timbers, a team who has had
00:03:55
Speaker
a rather frustrating amount of success in Seattle over the last four years. I actually compiled the numbers today and it's like a reverse home field advantage going on between these two teams. The Sounders have done great in Portland. They're 5-1 since 2018. They are 0-4-1 at home against the Timbers.
00:04:18
Speaker
Richard, you had a close look at this rivalry during a lot of that time. What do you make of this ridiculous home field reverse action?
00:04:32
Speaker
I think these teams have been so evenly matched that that little bit of motivation has mattered a lot. And I think it's not only the motivation that has come from going on the road and knowing that you need to get focused and knowing that you can spoil this game that the other team so wants to win and so has so much to lose.
00:04:52
Speaker
But also, it seems like so many of these occasions have been like this weekend's game. The Timbers are coming into this weekend's game with seven points in their last out of the last nine possible. But I don't think anybody really thinks like the Timbers are playing great right now to go into this weekend's game.
00:05:10
Speaker
when the CCL banner is going to be unveiled and potentially get three points. These are the type of things that when two teams are so evenly matched and you're looking for something to motivate yourself can be a difference maker. Now, the underlying question there, the premise of what I'm talking about is, are these two teams really evenly matched? Because there's a lot of evidence throughout the season that would suggest that they're not quite evenly matched, but then
00:05:38
Speaker
When you look at the circumstances that these two teams have met under before, where one team might be doing better, one team might be doing worse, one team might have more talent on paper, one team might not. The gap in talent between these two teams right now doesn't suggest that the mere fact that Seattle has played better during these first
00:05:59
Speaker
four months of the season is really going to be the deciding factor in this weekend's game. And in that sense, it seems like we're going through the same thing we go through every time these two teams meet. It really is just which one of these two teams is going to play better on the weekend. And in that sense, which one of these two teams is going to play freer, freer of expectations, freer constraints. And maybe that's actually why the road team seems to win every time, because when you go on the road,
00:06:26
Speaker
You don't have, you're not, you're not inheriting any risk when you go on the road in this rivalry. You know, it's funny because I feel like almost every time the sounders hosts the timbers, I talk myself into thinking like, okay.
00:06:41
Speaker
on paper, this is a, this is a win. This is where this silly streak ends. And I've definitely done that again, where I don't have a lot of anxiety heading into this one. And then invariably I'm sure I'll be frustrated. But then on the reverse, every time the sounders go down to Seattle and go down to Portland, I'm like, uh, there's no way they can't really keep up the streak. Right. Like they, like they just don't, this does not look like a good matchup. And then, and then they went six to Aaron, uh,
00:07:09
Speaker
Do you have any insight into this? Do you have any armchair, dime store, psychiatrist type stuff that you want to share about the mindset of not to diminish your psychoanalysis of this, Richard, that I think is right on, but do you have anything comparable to offer in that way, Aaron?
00:07:29
Speaker
No, I mean, I do think that Richard has a lot of it nailed. And I think that, you know, another element of it is it kind of seems like over the last couple of seasons that these teams have been each other's slump buster, which can be worrying, I think, for the Sounders, since they're playing, you know, I think all things considered pretty well. The Timbers have turned things around a bit, but they're certainly, they could use like a statement when, I think, and I think
00:07:57
Speaker
you know, how things have gone in this rivalry aside, like a win in Seattle would be a statement win. And I think that there is something to the idea that the losing has to get, like the losing at home has to get into the heads of the home teams. And rivalry games are always gonna be so tense and on a knife's edge and like a lot of the time fairly boring for those reasons.
00:08:25
Speaker
that I think they do kind of give road teams, I don't want to say an edge, like I think there's still a built-in home field advantage no matter what the results of the last couple of years say, but I think that the sort of just nature of teams not wanting to lose these games at home sort of equalizes things and teams are less aggressive. And so I think, you know, that's certainly part of it, but I really do think that it is just, it comes down to
00:08:54
Speaker
These teams have been really evenly matched over the past few years. I think that, you know, in games, it's a trope, right? Like it's a cliche, but...
00:09:04
Speaker
it really doesn't, like when you have a rivalry that is this heated, like any team can win and it'll be like MLS where the gaps are just never that far apart. All of that just levels the playing field. And I do think that the way things have gone over the last few seasons with home field advantage being completely reversed, I think that's largely a fluke, right? Like I think it's unreasonable to think that
00:09:30
Speaker
it's just always going to be that way. But I do think that there are unique things about the revelry and about just like the intensity of it that make that home field advantage less palpable. Well, pulling out a little bit from that, I do want to take a little bit of a bigger picture view of how these two teams. By the way, Aaron just put on his glasses. I feel like he's flexing on me because I never wears glasses and I can't find mine.
00:10:00
Speaker
I was I was going to try to make it through the show without putting them on because I felt bad about that, but I can't. Richard, no, no, Richard is doing it. This is the one time we should have had video for this podcast. Just it's not flexing. It's just camaraderie. I've chosen sides. Yeah, I see that. I see that. But but pulling out a little bit, you know, the sounders come into this game.
00:10:24
Speaker
in pretty good position. You know, I think in a lot of ways we've talked about this, they can already consider this season a
Season Goals and Team Dynamics
00:10:31
Speaker
success. They're almost playing with house money in a sense of, they won the biggest competition that they're going to play this year. And so that they're already back into a playoff spot right now. They seem to have found their footing. A lot of big tests are coming up soon, but
00:10:53
Speaker
All in all, it feels like this first half of the season went about as well as you could have hoped. I think if you had told me that the Sounders would win Champions League and then be in a playoff spot at mid-season, I don't think I'd really ask for any qualifiers. I'd be very happy with that.
00:11:16
Speaker
I don't think you can really ask for much more than winning a continental competition and not having to completely crater your regular season. I think most people would take that trade, especially in MLS, where the impact on teams going deep into Champions League is so consistently felt.
00:11:37
Speaker
You know, I think that it's kind of gone the way we predicted as the run into CCO got deeper and deeper. Like these points in the league are just harder to get and you always have to prioritize the Champions League over league play. I just don't think that.
00:11:53
Speaker
any coach would ever do differently if you feel like you've got a chance to win the competition. And, you know, as soon as the Sounders had sort of stopped feeling the effects of CCL, I think I ran the numbers this weekend post CCL
00:12:12
Speaker
And I don't remember exactly what they were, but they were averaging like close to two points a game. But I think, Jeremiah, you ran the numbers post Open Cup, which I think is a more reasonable because that first MLS game after CCL was, I think, as much of a punt as you're ever going to see from this team.
00:12:33
Speaker
So, you know, probably a little bit more reasonable, the starting point and they've been by those numbers even better. Yeah. Six two and one, in case you're out there wondering what we're six two and one since, since may 12th, essentially since they got eliminated from the open cup. Yeah. So for the first half ish of the season, um, the sounders were mediocre and MLS, which not the first time they've started a season or had a patch of games with their mediocre and MLS, uh, and also.
00:13:00
Speaker
won the Champions League, and since then they've been playing as good as anybody in the league. So yeah, I don't really think, some understands have found a way, but I don't think that any reasonable person could be too upset with how things have gone. Richard, I don't know how much you, how good of a sense of this you have, but
00:13:22
Speaker
this is you know the the timbers are 19 games into their season it feels like it's playing out like a lot of timber seasons do where there are moments of uh of very impressive play and then there's slogs of of bad play
00:13:39
Speaker
And, and yet at the end of the season, they find themselves, uh, more often than not, not just in the playoffs, but content, you know, potentially going deep into the playoffs. Is there something different about this team? Or is this just sort of feel like a geo saver say timbers team.
00:13:55
Speaker
I mean, it's funny in the few months I've been away from the team, I've had to explain to people why I haven't really invested in the games since I left. And it runs parallel to your question where it's like, I've seen this season play out in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021. And I don't mean that as a bad thing in terms of like,
00:14:20
Speaker
I understand why Timbers fans want the Timbers to be better at this point in the season, but I think there's a philosophy here that we know that there are sacrifices that have to be made in April through July in order to have a veteran team be at their best in August through November. Part of that is just the fact that if you really want
00:14:48
Speaker
Diego Charra, Sebastian Blanco, Larry Somaviala to grind out an MLS season, then good luck having them at their best for those last five or six games. And part of that is just the fact that the Timbers have a model of acquiring players from overseas who come in and kind of go like, wait a minute, so we only have to be at our best in the last two months of the season?
00:15:10
Speaker
OK, and they get it. But the kind of the rub there is that do you really want me to on three days rest go to Houston, Texas on a night where it's like 80, you know, 80 percent humidity on a battlefield and like
00:15:26
Speaker
take my career in my hands and go up against all these people who are trying to stay in the league. No, we'll make up these points somewhere else. And as much as people maybe want to talk themselves out of that, that's a real part of this league, man. It's a real part of this league. It's hard to convince somebody who maybe spent six years in France to come over here and get hyped about getting on a plane on Monday night for a game on Wednesday that's two time zones away when that game
00:15:54
Speaker
it's unclear whether that game will matter in three months. So when I look at the timbers and I go up and down the roster, I see a lot of players that look at the standings and kind of say, but we can make up these points later, right? And I do think that explains a lot about why the timbers have been the way they are ever since they, it's not just the GEO era. The GEO era coincided with them trading Darlington Nagbee for a crapload of TAM and reorganizing the roster around depth.
00:16:22
Speaker
And once you start bringing in depth from overseas, you have a lot of people that get on the same page about like, oh, wait a minute, we only need to be good at this point. Okay, cool. Cool. And I think that's kind of just a reality of when you build your team like this.
00:16:38
Speaker
So there was an interesting story today in MLS soccer by our friend Charlie Bohm. And he interviewed J.O. Savarese and Gavin Wilkinson. And sort of about the Sounders sort of winning the space race of MLS, which is being the first team to win CCL.
Impact of Champions League Win
00:17:00
Speaker
And at least for the sake of this story,
00:17:04
Speaker
put out a face of saying, yeah, we're really pissed. We had hoped to be the first ones there. Is that, do you really, do the timbers care that the centers got their first? Yeah, but yeah, they do. They definitely do.
00:17:20
Speaker
But I also think it's not like, oh my God, I can't believe like we let that happen. There's so much respect between the two organizations that the Sounders would have been pissed. Like when the Sounders got to see the Timbers win MLS Cup before
00:17:37
Speaker
you know, they did. It was a little bit different because the sounders had been so close to that breakthrough before. But at the same time, it wasn't like the timbers winning says anything about us. It just, in a way, it kind of confirms that, well, if they can do it, we can do it too.
00:17:54
Speaker
So when the Timbers were in Champions League two years ago and they got drawn against Klub America and, you know, Klub America was definitely the better team, but there were chances down at Sadio Azteca for the Timbers to kind of like break through and really take control of that game. It obviously didn't happen, but the Timbers
00:18:14
Speaker
were able to at least like go punch for punch with a Titan of Mexico. The Sounders took it a step further. So with the Timbers having that experience in their back pocket, they can be pissed not from the perspective of kind of, wow, our rivals got us got one over on us. It's more from like, damn, we were actually in the discussion to do that before them.
00:18:37
Speaker
And I think that's the perspective. I'm sure you've said it so much on the show, we've talked about on the show, and other people have talked about this so much. There's so much respect between the front offices of these two organizations, the technical staffs of these two organizations, that when they want to beat each other, when Brian Schmetzer is saying all of this vitriolic stuff about Portland, it's not from the perspective of like, how can we ever lose to Portland? It's more kind of from like,
00:19:05
Speaker
They're legitimately good, but we still have to recognize that it's not acceptable to ever lose to Portland. And that's the same thing for the Timbers versus Seattle.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, I've been on both sides of one sided rivalries, and I've been and then the founders timbers rivalry I think is the most even one that I've ever been like a fan, and it's more it's like it's, it's less fun in some ways but I think in general it's more fun, because it feels like their stakes.
00:19:36
Speaker
You do, I think at the end of the day, most outer stands have like some grudging respect for the timbers and recognize that they're like a well-run team consistently puts out a good team and that, you know, they're going to beat you sometimes. Right. And I think that like, when you start letting like the timbers winning MLS cup, like you alluded to Richard, yeah, like it pissed me off. Like I was in a bad mood the rest of that day. When you let it go beyond that to the point where like you're defining how you feel about
00:20:04
Speaker
team that you're a fan of based on what your rival does, like that's where it becomes like touch grass time, like to just like keep things in perspective of like if you have a rival that's a successful team that makes the rivalry better but it also means they're going to achieve things that you'd rather they didn't sometimes and that's just kind of the give and take of it.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, we see that in rivalries across the world and granted a lot of the exposure, we get to these things on Twitter, but even if you go beyond that, when you start looking at the hardcore fan, not the hardcore, but like the delusional fans of these great rivalries around the world, whether it be, you know, Boca Riva or, you know, Chivas America or Barcelona or Real Madrid, so much of the identity of these people who are delusional is derived on other people's failures.
00:20:53
Speaker
And I do think that both Seattle and Portland have so much to be proud of in their organizations. Seattle obviously is amassing this not only trophy case, but this era of team building. Even if this current iteration of the Sounders fell short in every final for the next four years, the fact that they've been able to assemble this team
00:21:18
Speaker
is something other front offices should look into as to how this came about. And the timbers, the timbers are not in a big market and they've consistently punched above their weight. And even though they're at a point in standings right now where they're lacking compared to the rest of Western Conference, when you really look at their team and you go and you really like
00:21:42
Speaker
Damn, Eric Williamson is not even a starter on this team right now. Dario Zupirich or Larry Smabiala. One of these guys is not a starter on this team right now. One of Felipe Moore or Yaro Nisgoda is not a starter on this team right now. You look at the way that they've crafted their roster. And this is why it's going to be scary for any team to go up against Portland.
00:22:03
Speaker
When you face them in the playoffs, they have waves of players that can come at you and beat you. And that's a model for a lot of teams around the league too, in a way that the Seattle model is not going to be applicable to a team in Colorado or RSL or Columbus, et cetera. And I do think that there are so many teams around the league that look to these two teams in terms of both on the field and the business side as exemplars of what they can do in their own markets.
00:22:34
Speaker
I think that's a that's a great point. That's one of the things that it's it's funny during especially during this era of the rivalry is that I know I find myself like obviously not enjoying losing to the timbers ever but also not having that same level of like
00:22:51
Speaker
I can't sleep at night type stuff that, you know, the Caleb era maybe brought with it at times, but it's been, it's a fascinating rivalry. I think that it's really unlike anything in American sport. I can't help but see some, like I'm watching For All Mankind. I don't know if anyone else out there is watching that, but it's this alternate history show about if that's the premise being that Russia beat the United States to the moon.
00:23:20
Speaker
and how that changed the way that we viewed the space race. And I'm hearing you talk. I wonder if this is that alternate universe where if the sounders had one MLS Cup first, you almost wonder if they would have maybe been more inclined to rest on their laurels and maybe not push themselves the way that they have pushed themselves in these last eight years during most of the
00:23:49
Speaker
the Garth Logra way era. And, and as you know, we've seen them and these two teams do seem to be sort of pushing each other to new heights. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's part of what is driving both these teams that not wanting to let the other one
Rivalry Pressures and Expectations
00:24:06
Speaker
get it whether it's a friendly rivalry or a vitriolic rivalry I think that is driving a lot of this and so you know be careful I suppose I guess the the nature of this is like it's good I think it's good for these these teams to be pretty evenly matched although god I really hope the centers end this stupid streak of not being able to be Portland at home
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think they're like acceptable levels of failures for each team within the rivalry. Like if the timbers lose to the Sounders based on the fact that they just have like this huge collection of challenge that is cohesive, has been knit together very thoughtfully over the last couple of years, and you just can't beat that. That's one thing. But if they lose the Sounders like a couple of years ago when Julio Cascante has an own goal after
00:24:55
Speaker
Uh, and in Portland after Portland had dominated the Sounders for 86, 90 minutes, you know, that's not an acceptable loss, right? Or, um, you know, these times that Portland has just come in and just, you know, scored an early goal and then scored an early goal in the second half, which seems to be like an MO they've had, they've resorted to a couple of times. And you can just see Brian going back to locker room is just like for 25 minutes, you guys were not on their level.
00:25:21
Speaker
that's not an acceptable loss for the Sounders, right? There's acceptable margins for error. So, Boston Wonco getting hurt in the 15th minute or whatever, and them still winning that game. Yeah, exactly, right? So, there are these acceptable margins for error that you can do. Like, if, you know, Seattle plays well and forces the Timbers greatest stars to play out of their mind, well, you know, the Timbers do have players that if they play out of their mind, you're gonna have a hard time beating them. But make them play out of their mind. Don't make mistakes against them.
00:25:50
Speaker
I do like the whole alternative universe thing you're talking about, Jeremiah, like what if the Timbers hadn't won the cup first? What if it wasn't Seattle? And then like the Timbers just went out and made like three or four other Chris Boyd signings trying to catch up thinking that they needed to just spend and not spend wisely. And what if Seattle
00:26:13
Speaker
You know, what if Seattle in those early days had a breakthrough and actually ended up winning in those early years under the city Schmidt, because they were really close, but at the same time there are probably like some.
00:26:28
Speaker
my opinion, there were some tendencies and talent evaluation that maybe were less ambitious as far as like, it just seemed like Ziggy needed like four or five guys on the pitch at a certain time that fit archetypes that maybe were a little bit restrictive, like, okay,
00:26:46
Speaker
are we really going to have like more of these Kaski esque players who was very good player. But like, look, if we're growing as a team and we're growing with MLS, do we really need like four or five of these guys that fit this very reliable but safe mold on the field at all times? And if they had broken through under that, would you continuously see like that kind of evaluation of players rather than taking a chance on other players? I don't know, but I do think that
00:27:15
Speaker
you need to get an elevator with somebody from MLS and come up with your 15 second pitch, man, as far as this for all mankind version of the Cascadia. Right. Uh, yeah. Uh, I mean, I wouldn't, I absolutely, I absolutely would not watch that, but I would like to see people how people reacted to it.
00:27:38
Speaker
right exactly uh so one of the things that also seems to have defined this rivalry and i don't know maybe maybe it's the sounders weirdly that have leaned into this but there's always this sort of like they're looking for these little petty things to sort of jab i don't i don't like i don't know did did the timbers unveil their mls cup trophy uh banner against the the sounders they think they did didn't they
00:28:00
Speaker
I honestly don't even remember. And I think four years from now, we're not going to remember what the sound is. But the centers are unveiling their Champions League banner this weekend. They're having this whole celebration around celebrating the Champions League win. One piece of that celebration is that they will be wearing a patch on their shirts
00:28:22
Speaker
that is commemorating the title, they had actually made a request to MLS to wear that for the rest of the season, that request was denied. Maybe you read about this in Senator Hart I did some, some reporting on it. I finally heard back from MLS today.
00:28:43
Speaker
13 days, in fact, after I first requested comment, and they finally got back to me. And, like, the short version of the statement is this, they are working on a way to celebrate these championships in perpetuity.
00:29:01
Speaker
And so they don't want a short term fix. They're trying to come up with a long term fix. I have a feeling that was a explanation that they workshopped and figured that's what they could say and get me off their back.
00:29:17
Speaker
I find it to be a little lacking in explanation. I don't know that there is really a good reason not to allow this patch other than it's a little gaudy. But that's sort of the charm of it. It's very similar to what Chelsea wore for the entirety of their season after they won the club World Cup. But that's sort of like the point, right? It should be a little gaudy. It should be a little out there.
00:29:45
Speaker
I don't I don't quite know why Emma's wouldn't want to celebrate this. Aaron, do you have any any theories? Do you have any thoughts on on what what's going on here?
MLS Regulations and Team Initiatives
00:29:56
Speaker
I think that Kayla Porter threw a little bit fit about it and and the league decided to come up with now I don't I mean, I actually I wouldn't be shocked if that's the case. But I think that they I think the league is very
00:30:13
Speaker
conservative about controlling its image and controlling the product in general, and not giving the teams too much freedom to do anything that's not standardized in some way and so I think that that's likely what this is, you know, that they
00:30:31
Speaker
They, the teams can't even sell their own Jersey sponsorships, right? So why would they, I guess they can sell their sponsorships, but like their own, they can't arrange a deal with anybody with Adidas or have like a Nike. They can't get their own Jersey manufacturer. So, you know, why would they be able to put a patch on the Jersey? Right.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah. Richard, you have any, I don't know. Have you dealt with any, did you ever deal with MLS folks on the, this internal level that were like, do you have any idea of how this conversation may have gone down? Yeah. I mean, I've definitely been privy to conversations, particularly coming out of the bubble or going into the bubble in 2020 where they were trying to activate other spaces on the kits to try to make up lost revenue. So we started seeing like,
00:31:22
Speaker
On the sleeves, lower close to the end of the sleeves, that space start to be activated to sell to partners. And really, that's what we're talking about here is how MLS is envisioning all of this different territory being used. Like every single square on a jersey is really about how are we most effectively using this stuff.
00:31:42
Speaker
I think this is a function of having a league that is organized the way it is. And it's not really organized for innovation, it's organized for sustaining the rules that everybody agrees on. You don't have an organization that is really about having a robust organization at its head. The idea is that
00:32:06
Speaker
The New York office had a lot of ways to streamline the costs for teams and across a number of areas and we're, we've seen a lot of discussions about this with the new television broadcast deal with Apple TV, right, consolidating a lot of the costs into a certain space to try to
00:32:25
Speaker
You know affect the same goals. So, when all of these teams are kind of handing over a little bit of their autonomy to New York. The idea is that the decisions that do get made, they can scale, and they can be very efficient and provide standards but it's not.
00:32:44
Speaker
about those decisions being made efficiently. It's about those decisions being implemented efficiently. So I think we're seeing that. And I do think that what Erin is saying is kind of true that you have a conservative and adverse reaction to innovation because it just hasn't gone through the grinder that has been set up.
00:33:05
Speaker
That all sounds very true to my conversation with the MLS spokesperson, which was the answer essentially is we just haven't done it. We don't know what we want to do and we're not ready to do something that we haven't fully thought through. I think maybe the biggest
00:33:28
Speaker
critique here is that they didn't have already made an answer. Like that's what was sort of surprising to me was that basically the sounders brought them this proposal and it was like, oh, we'd never considered someone would want to do this. It's like, well, didn't you, you must've thought at some point you guys were going to win Champions League, right? Like what was the plan? And I suppose you can go, you go back and you look at what,
00:33:55
Speaker
how the the timbers celebrated you know MLS is back and you know we can we can make fun of that tournament all we want and i'm sure we will but like at the time it was this
00:34:08
Speaker
one time achievement and they basically hung a banner and that was the end of it. That was the end of the celebration essentially. You go look back on why didn't the league come up with a way to celebrate that during the season? We were in the middle of COVID. We got to find things to latch onto and be excited about.
00:34:36
Speaker
Like, was there even, did the Timbers try to do anything like that? Do you know? I think, you know, when, I'm sorry, like, you asked me this question, just picks out a bunch of scars. I immediately go back to being isolated into a hotel room for seven weeks in Orlando. I think everybody at the end of that tournament, Jeremiah, was just happy to be home. And there was like, you know,
00:35:03
Speaker
from an organizational perspective, I think nobody knew what life was going to be like when we got home. So the idea of, can you have people to the stadium to celebrate this? The answer to that was no at the time. So that kind of stuff. I think there was a lot of internal pride
00:35:21
Speaker
At winning that obviously you guys have seen how merit Paulson has talked about that tournament and I I fully support his being proud of what the players sacrificed and did there, but I think they're.
00:35:34
Speaker
We're forever going to debate what that tournament meant. So it's kind of hard to look at that and see that as kind of any way analogous to winning Champions League. Fair enough. I think kind of like to play off of what you're talking about, the lack of a plan in place. The fact that the lack of a plan means you default to no.
00:35:58
Speaker
to me is the problem. Like you should default to like, okay, well, how about you do this for 90 days and we'll have an answer at the end of it. And if the answer is no at the end of it, then like, Hey, there are these like super scarce commemorative kits out there. They're going to eventually go for like $900 on eBay because we decided not to do that anymore. But for 90 days, we allowed you to do this. I don't like the details to know because I think we can all see re between the lines here. The real question is like on the commercial level,
00:36:26
Speaker
What does this cost us? But also there's like a simple reality that like that space had not been sold yet. They had not made any promises to it yet. So if you were worried about the precedent, the sets for the future, just put a sunset on the use of it now. Really, I think the front office in Seattle just wants to do this.
00:36:45
Speaker
at least once like they wanted maybe more but like if you told people in Seattle like hey we don't have a rule for this so you have like a 45-day window like churn out as many jerseys as possible after that like don't do it anymore that's a kind of a happy compromise for 45 days and I don't see why that's not the default as opposed to an outright no.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the thing that sort of killed me about it. I think that sort of gets right at it is that it would have been really easy to me, especially in a league that changes its.
00:37:18
Speaker
it changes its competition rules, let alone it's, you know, like, and we, I use this example when I was talking to, when I was talking to the league, I said, you know, you had, you had, you had announced this whole thing where the stars on the Jersey were going to be consolidated if you won five. So you just have one big star that represented five titles and it like, it made some organizational sense. And basically, as soon as that rule got made,
00:37:47
Speaker
The galaxy were like, we don't like that. We want to have five. We won five titles. We want five stars. And they just sort of like did it. And no one stopped them. And then they changed the rule to accommodate. I remember the I remember the deck on that flipping through the PowerPoint deck on this new rule and all the different places where like
00:38:06
Speaker
you're allowed to use this size of star. And like, if you wanted to have a drop shadow on the star, this is the legal way to do it, not the legal way to do it. And if you were displaying your crest independent of the kit, this is how you do it. And this is how you do it. And so, yeah, when we're talking about this, I go back to that specific deck that get distributed amongst teams and like, yeah, when they think these things out, this is how it happens. But then like you're talking about, it's not like it's set in stone. So it makes you wonder,
00:38:36
Speaker
why they interpret certain things as being a stone and other things is not being a stone yeah it's just it to me it's it's more. Indicative of what's kind of wrong where mls fall short and it's sort of like in this. In this like you said like default to know it just is a very like.
00:38:56
Speaker
no you can't do it and no we don't know what we're gonna do but you have to give us time to figure it out and we'll get back to you and I sort of like got the sense that they they were like in real time like they asked me they're like well what do you think we should do and I'm like what what is this like I don't know like dude here's two ideas do one of those I don't know and it was like oh those are good ideas I'll bring those up and it's like what do you mean those are like the most obvious ideas
00:39:21
Speaker
Well, Third Eye Open here, what's better, allowing the sounders to do it or the sounders doing it and then saying that they're not allowed to, but not really forcing that. Third Eye Open, what is actually better there commercially? Right. Yeah. No, I mean, I will say this. It's gotten a lot more attention than if they had just quietly
00:39:42
Speaker
put it on there and it like, you know, got Grant wall talking about it, got football America's talking about it, got hurt Gomez and is, you know, like it's, you know, it's, it's become a talking point. I don't know how important it is, but it's been a fun little, a fun little rabbit hole for me to dive down and a bone for me to chase. So whatever. Oh.
00:40:03
Speaker
Sometimes when I come on the show, you guys should explain to me like, it's such a tedious conversation, but as somebody that now checks Twitter every three days or so to see what people are talking about, it is amazing to see what like reaches the point of like,
00:40:22
Speaker
grant walls attention hurt Gomez's attention, because this is an interesting story. But for all the things for like, somebody that football America's what like at least a twice a week show grant wall is floating out there with a sub stack, like for people to like really have an opinion about to invest in this. It seems both cool and like easy because those type of people could actually be like digging in on like
00:40:49
Speaker
bigger things than this. Cause ultimately this is like over the course of the last 12 minutes, we have discussed every angle to this. It really is like club wants to do something team doesn't have. And there's no more to talk about. Yeah, exactly. So like, this is the podcast specifically about the Seattle Sounders and we love, and our favorite thing to do is bitch about stuff like this. Yeah. So this is like as much in our wheelhouse as it could possibly get. And we've, we're going to kill like 15 minutes talking about it.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, so like, okay, these other like these other places that should be like diving into some, you know, more overarching issues like, hey, like,
00:41:26
Speaker
We are a year away from Miami, circumventing the salary cap to get too many designated players in. And now we have a team in Los Angeles that suspiciously, and I honestly don't know anything about this, but it's like they're getting people to accept TAM offers that seem like they're way below their market value. That could be all about the commercial opportunities in Los Angeles and LAFC doing a great job of kind of
00:41:50
Speaker
collecting a network of agencies and companies that are willing to augment Shilini's and bail salaries with things away from the field. And that would be legal in any market. But let's find out what the hell is going on there. Are these just people that really love Los Angeles because
00:42:08
Speaker
Los Angeles, as much as it's nice, it's just not the only place that people want to go to. So why are they going there for below market rates? And it really is just that John Thorrington is a great salesman. I'd love to read that story about why he's such a great salesman, but either way, that to me seems like it's
00:42:27
Speaker
worth a little bit more of your weight than, Hey, this is an easy tweet about, I don't get why the league is doing this. Oh, wait a minute. I just actually said the part. It's just an easy tweet. Isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It is. I w I'm not mad about the Gareth Bale thing, especially, but there does feel like something.
00:42:48
Speaker
Something's not, doesn't feel like it adds up. Like this is a guy who was making what, $33 million a year. He was making more in a month than he's going to be making in a year at LAFC. And like, you can't tell me this was his only option. You can't tell me like, like, yes, LA has some.
00:43:11
Speaker
You know, Ellie, Ellie is fine, I guess. Maybe if you're Gareth Bale you think Ellie is better than fine, but it just, I don't know, it does seem odd. The most compelling explanation I've heard is that he needs somewhere where he can play to keep fit for the World Cup, because Wales is the only soccer he has cared about for a decade probably.
00:43:33
Speaker
And so he wants to do that. And then he's going to retire after the World Cup. And he's done. And he doesn't have to play in Europe. And that seems plausible to me. But if he signed in with a team in Europe, he sensibly would have to play out the rest of the year. Or maybe he just wants to keep his options open to if he has a great World Cup, he can go play somewhere that's going to pay him a ton of money. I don't know. But it's
00:43:58
Speaker
you have there has to be like some unknown like solve for x thing going on for it to make sense and that's always just kind of weird and it seems like if it was yeah the world cup is going to be it for me and this was a chance for me to do that like that's not a hard thing to say publicly yeah
00:44:17
Speaker
I've also liked, uh, Aaron's tweets on bail when I have logged on and seen him kind of going like, basically like it's not inconceivable that this guy is just not going to be that good. Like, Hey, I can see like for 15, 30 minutes a game, this guy with his physical talents is wrecking, you know, depending on what, where he starts wrecking him right back, left back, center backs. But like.
00:44:37
Speaker
If you're expecting this guy to be like a 90 minute dominant player, like one, that's just not the type of player he is to begin with. And secondly, what from his recent track record, uh, tells you he's going to do that. And thirdly, did you not watch like some of these other players come over here and just not be that like, yeah, like maybe he will suddenly find a dedication to his physical wellbeing that rivals Frank Lampard's, but he could also be Steven Gerrard and it could just be like completely unimpressive.
Transfer Speculations and Market Impact
00:45:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, my working assumption is that neither Bale nor Chulini are going to play more than a thousand minutes. And I think that might even be on the high end.
00:45:16
Speaker
Um, and so like, so who knows, who knows? Like I'm not, I'm not worked up about them. I don't necessarily it's like, at least in the abstract, who knows maybe after they start playing and they have a frontline of, uh, you know, Brian Rodriguez, Carlos Vela and Gareth Bale be like, Oh, who let this happen? But, um, I don't know. It's, it is an interesting thing. Uh,
00:45:43
Speaker
I don't know, I don't think I wish the sounders had been the ones to sign bail, but it was fun having Dempsey. And I guess I can't be mad if we got Dempsey, right? Dempsey had not stopped trying five years ago, though, so I think that is... Yeah, that's a good point. All right, well, I think that's probably a good place to call this a segment. We're going to come back, take your questions. You're listening to no... Adiettes.
00:46:12
Speaker
Full pull wines are based in Seattle, owned and operated by Sanders fans, and have been sponsoring Nota Adieira since 2011. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest. Their model is simple. One, they email compelling offers.
00:46:31
Speaker
Two, you request bottles that sound appealing. And three, your wine arrives at their soda warehouse and is ready for pickup or shipping. Their soda tasting room is also open to the public. If you're interested in joining their mailing list or learning more about them, visit fullpaulwines.com.
00:46:51
Speaker
Thanks to Watson's Counter for sponsoring this episode. Located in Ballard, Watson's Counter is your neighborhood specialty coffee shop, brunch spot, and now, coffee roaster. Sourcing exclusively high scoring coffees, Watson's Counter has started their coffee roasting project to showcase amazing coffees grown around the world. Their first featured coffee is the beautifully complex washed Ethiopian Odola.
00:47:13
Speaker
Follow them on Instagram at wantsonscounter to keep up with all the upcoming releases or check out their website at www.watsonscounter.com. Whether you want to stop by for your daily coffee to go or sit down for delicious Korean inspired brunch, Watson's Counter has got you covered. Welcome back to Nos Ariates. So we have a bunch of questions and I guess Aaron and I can
00:47:39
Speaker
trade off asking them. And you can just jump in whenever you want to chime in, Richard. How's that sound? Yeah, that's what's made our appearances so fruitful over the last seven years or 10 years. I'll go and just keep doing that. Okay. Well, I'll start, Aaron. This is from M. Gamini. How do you think the World Cup being in the winter will affect the MLS and sounders?
00:48:05
Speaker
So I think that the main way it's going to affect it's going to be positive I think in two ways. Any players that have breakout performances are going to be leaving in the offseason, most likely.
00:48:20
Speaker
positive because I mean it's going to be a tough time to sign players right because there's going to be competition from elsewhere and teams I think are going to want to be more active in their winter window than they usually are so you know they'll have a little more competition for incoming players but they're not going to lose a critical player in the middle of the season so I think that's positive and I think the more obvious one is just that they're not going to have to take a huge break right in the middle of the season
00:48:48
Speaker
I think front offices are going to, um, you know, ever since, uh, the pandemic started, we kind of forget that we've had, we had a couple of really compressed seasons after that. And as a result of it, teams have just been working constantly to turn over their rosters, to deal with decisions to, in a lot of cases, deal with the financial implications of the pandemic. And I think these front offices around the league are going to enjoy maybe like a couple extra weeks of.
00:49:16
Speaker
you know, time that would otherwise not be, not be very recharging. So I think it's going to be like a good mental reset for front offices, for players, get them back on track for when the 2023 preseason actually comes around. Yeah, I, I, I don't know if I have anything to add about this World Cup, but I am curious,
00:49:45
Speaker
Richard, do you have any particular feelings about the World Cup coming to Cascadia? I mean, we're going to have a lot of games here.
00:49:56
Speaker
in this region? To be honest with you, when I saw the host cities finalize, my thought was, I'm glad it's within driving distance and not in my backyard. Whether it be like World Cups or Olympics, I just don't want them in my city, man.
00:50:15
Speaker
between the hoops that get erected and then have to be jumped through to deal with those type of things. And then, you know, some of the other costs to it. It's just like so complicated to me that I would much rather just be someplace else. So as far as the World Cup coming to Cascadia, I'm really glad Seattle
00:50:40
Speaker
is gonna host some games because it's such a great city, it has such great facilities, it deserves it. At the same time, like I'm glad it's Seattle and not Paul. Better you than me. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I also just associate like those type of events at this point with like these kind of mega cities that barely seen mega cities at all. Like obviously Seattle is struggling for its identity right now between becoming like a mega city that is like not really accessible to a lot of people and
00:51:08
Speaker
being a place that actually has some character. It's like right on the verge of being like a Los Angeles type of place. Whereas having lived in Los Angeles, Los Angeles is the perfect place for an event like this because like it's not a city that has an identity beyond. We host Super Bowls, we host these types of things. So while
00:51:28
Speaker
I'm glad that Seattle has a chance to host an event like this. I do wonder if it feeds into like that trajectory for the city where it's, are you just going to be like the Northwest hub for unlivability? And that takes stuff on and another changes. No, I think that's a, that's not a crazy take on that. Uh, but Aaron, what do you, what do you got for us? I think you're on mute, Aaron.
00:51:59
Speaker
Never do that at work, but do that on here. Next one is from Bill Jones TRPT. What game should we hope to have our ideal 11 back for minus open JP? Oh, man. I mean, this would have been a good one for for them to have to have the ideal 11, which I do think really is. It looks sounds like he's going to play. So that's that's a good that's a good sign.
00:52:27
Speaker
Ariaga will be the notable player missing from this one. But yeah, if the sounders can get everyone back for Nashville, that would be great. That's this Wednesday. I don't know if that's realistic. And then you go beyond that. That game at LAFC hosting Dallas, those are going to be big ones.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah. Like if, if they can get, if they can get everyone back, I actually would say the game at LAFC on July 29th. So that gives everyone three ish weeks that if they can get everyone sort of back for that, I think that would feel pretty good.
00:53:07
Speaker
So this came up on the last national television broadcast of the sounders. And that's how I know about this. Do we have a firm idea of what the sounders ideal 11 is specifically in central midfield? Like the other questions are pretty easy to pick out, but in terms of central midfield, like what is the conception of what is ideal for the sounders at that point, from your guys's point of view?
00:53:32
Speaker
I think for me, I think that Rose Neck is in the ideal midfield, Lederos in the ideal midfield.
00:53:42
Speaker
And is it, is it row at this point? Cause I think that seems to be the question as to whether him adapting from this utility player that's mostly playing kind of like, Hey, he's filling in an attacking midfield and then at fullback. And now is he going to be somebody that can serve with Ledero and Rusnak in a midfield. And like at that point, you'd ideally want somebody that is pretty firm in the tackle and that can distribute from a deep line position. I think it's probably row right now. Um, I think.
00:54:11
Speaker
Ultimately, it's Vargas, but that's off the table for now. I'd like it to be Leyva. Yeah, I was going to say. It could be Leyva. I don't think Ro has been bad. I think we're pretty well known as defenders of Kellen Ro and how he's performed, but I think that is his worst position, probably, of the positions he can play at a decent level.
00:54:34
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think the ideal setup for the Sounders is that row is sort of there to fill in as needed and not be a player that you're relying on to be a starter at any particular position. And I think that the ideal is probably one of a tensio or leva
00:54:52
Speaker
winning that midfield spot and unlocking everything, because that unlocks everything else. If you can get one of them to lock down that position and say, nope, I'm the guy who belongs in this central midfield, I think that's your ideal scenario. Because then you get into situations where either you're talking about moving roll, and what they suggested on the broadcast was moving roll dawn back, which I don't think is a horrible idea.
00:55:20
Speaker
But I do think it has a cascading effect. So then now you're going to probably move Jordan over to the right where he hasn't been as good. And presumably you put like Leo Chu on the left, or maybe you put Jimmy Madranda on the right. But Madranda has his own issues of staying healthy and all those kinds of things. And like Madranda is another player who I think probably ideally you want him to be available to fill in as needed and not be someone that you're relying on to be in your ideal 11.
00:55:49
Speaker
And then I guess the other scenario, the other solution that's sort of been proposed is that you play Rusnak and Ledero together. And then I guess maybe you play Freddie as a 10. I don't think that's really an ideal scenario. Maybe you bring in another center back. Maybe that can make a little bit more sense, I suppose. Like one of the ideas that I
00:56:16
Speaker
playfully sort of proposed was for this weekend to play sort of a three four three, where you have Morris Reed is and rolled on and the in the forward band and then you have something like
00:56:31
Speaker
Alex Roldan, Lidero Rusnak, and Jimmy Madranda in that Bank of Four. And then you have Nuhu, Yaymar, and Jackson Reagan as the center backs. And I think that maybe works. But I think Rusnak and Lidero as your central midfielders probably only works if you have cover somewhere with like a third center back.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah, you were just alluding to two things that came to mind to me when the debate for the four minutes it was a debate on national broadcast came to mind. One, like the obvious thing to consider is moving Roldan back into that position because he is so good. And like you're talking about, there is at least a logical person to put into the attacking ban in midfield should you move him back. But then secondly, we saw prominently at least a couple of years ago when things got thin in deeper central midfield that
00:57:22
Speaker
the team was not reticent to moving Lodero even farther back and having him pick up the ball deeper. And obviously whether you're talking about bringing Montero in or bringing Bruin is alongside Rudy Diaz or bringing Chew in, like there are a lot of options farther up. So given the history of the decision-making, granted, there's been a lot of staff turnover in terms of the people that are giving Schmetzer, you know, suggestions when push comes to shove in these points. Like, you know, we've seen in the past,
00:57:51
Speaker
that getting Ledero closer to the ball in the buildup has been something they've been willing to do. It's just a question of how often you want to go toward that. And is that part of your, like your base 11? Right. Like I, to me, that feels like a solution to solve a specific problem, not something that you're going to be like, Nope, this is who we are now. This is the way we're going to set up and we're going to train every week to do it this way. Because I, I just don't, I'm just not convinced that Ledero.
00:58:21
Speaker
as a permanent solution, you want back a line like that. I think you sort of want to give them that freedom of being a 10.
00:58:28
Speaker
Yeah, no, if I were an opposing team and I saw Ledero being dropped back to an A and dropping back towards the defense to pick up the ball, I would almost just be like, continue to push him back. Like the second that one of the center backs is playing the ball to him, have somebody like push up against him and try to get him to play the ball back either to defenders or the goalkeepers. Cause the theory is like the farther you can get the ball pushed back in the Sounders buildup, the more Ledero is going to drop.
00:58:55
Speaker
And like the farther you can get Lidero to drop, then you're winning already there. So that's kind of like using Lidero's tendencies against him. Like if you give him the freedom to be the person that connects, he will follow the ball. And that could end up being bad for the Sounders if it becomes just their game plan. Yeah, I think that we've seen some games where Nico worked pretty well as an eight, but they've been games where the game stayed
00:59:23
Speaker
worked in the favor of him playing well as an eight, right? Like he, teams weren't able to do the things Richard, that you're saying that they should do to neutralize that. And yeah, I mean, if, you know, if you can put your best attacking players in eight and he can play the same way he plays as a 10, just because of the game state or what have you, then he's probably going to look pretty good as an eight. But as, as like a way, like you were saying, Jeremiah is like a way, this is like our philosophy. This is how we're going to play. You're really kind of cutting off your nose to sweat your face a little bit.
00:59:54
Speaker
Uh, this one's from interpersonal. What are your thoughts about going back to a three five two or three four three to get new who back to center back? Sort of similar question we were just dealing with and Madranda on the field and covered the loss of JP JP and Obed is new who too much of an offensive liability when he plays left back. I guess that's a good part of this to focus on. How much of a concern do you think it is that new who how how much of a concern is new who at left back?
01:00:20
Speaker
I think it's a big one. I think he's a much worse left back than he was even two years ago. And that's not good. That's not the way you want to see a player go. And I think a lot of that can be attributed to the fact that he has played mostly as a center back. And that's where he's done a lot of his development and the things that I think I always liked about his game.
01:00:42
Speaker
are a little more well suited to that left side and center back in a back three. But I think regression and the attacking side of this game that we've seen this season has been really concerning to me. I think at this point, if you're going to play forward to back with just a more traditional left back, I would rather see Madranda get those minutes. And that's
01:01:09
Speaker
pretty shocking because I think, you know, I've been one of Newton's biggest defenders and I think he's not like a bad left back just because he's so good defensively that it sort of makes up for it and if you can deal with just losing any kind of attacking
01:01:26
Speaker
Like if you can set yourself up to play where you don't need any attacking contribution from your left back, then it's not a big deal, but the Sounders don't really play that way. Like they need a left back who's going to be at least semi-competent in the attack and who just has not been that. He's been a black hole, I think possession wise and attacking wise.
01:01:45
Speaker
And that's really that's that really sucks to hear. Yeah, because like, I feel like anybody that's watched the sounders has been on like this journey. We knew we're like, you had to hear so many people, you know, sometimes positive things like a lot of kinds of positive things but sometimes negative things like
01:02:03
Speaker
really judge Nuhu on the qualities that people wanted to single out because his best qualities have always been so pronounced and his worst qualities have always been so pronounced and people that wanted to assume something negative about not only him but what his progression would be can focus on the negative and the people that wanted to you know overhype him could focus on the positive and when you were talking Aaron it totally mapped on to what I had seen in watching the sounders in that
01:02:33
Speaker
In a way like the magic is gone. Like it's just not as interesting anymore, like he's playing into what's safe for him or what feels comfortable for him and that's, that's not unique for a player players will always evolve to the things that they feel are most personal to them the players they want to be but
01:02:53
Speaker
the player you just described is just a lot less interesting. And not just in terms of like brand new who in terms of being kind of like this MLS Twitter meme, but in terms of like the actual player that he can become like, would you rather be like an inline to inline left back that is using your athleticism and the qualities that the wild qualities that some people think are negatives using that for positive, or do you want to settle into like a more conservative type of depiction
01:03:23
Speaker
of yourself and it's a little disappointing to hear that based on what you're telling me that he might have decided the latter even though it's totally explicable if that's what he thinks is going to be long-term viable for him as a professional. I don't know that he has settled into that because I think unfortunately what you see is
01:03:46
Speaker
his son of his tenant, like when he's playing left back, I don't think he's still entirely understands when to get forward and when to, and like when he leaves his position exposed and he'll sometimes make these runs where they're just like sort of in a dead ends and not seeming to, and it's like he's not, he's still not picking out his best spots. And weirdly when he's playing as a center back,
01:04:15
Speaker
All that flair and all that other stuff is there, but it's contained in a zone that makes him so much more effective and so much more efficient. And I really do think he's like an elite one-on-one defender. And if you put him in the right system, he could be almost like a world-class player because he has some world-class
01:04:40
Speaker
talents, but he's just not a, I don't think he's a great fit for a four back MLS system. Yeah. I think it's a left center back with a really dominant physical center back. Like I think if you, if you paired him with any other center back on the team, save from Ariaga, he's a great center back, but he's not as good as Ariaga.
01:05:08
Speaker
And you can't pair him with Ariaka and, you know, I just, it's he's, he's in this weird spot where he clearly has something to offer, but the place he has the place that he can get regular playing time is where he has the least to offer. That's, it's kind of a bummer. Yeah. Wow. So does he need to be like a left back in a system that is not relying on the left back for like consistent with.
01:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think so. He needs to go back to 1988. There's so many teams playing with three at the back, right? Like he could be, I think he is a really good center back.
01:05:49
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I think it's at left back, it's been pretty painful. And the fact that he's 25 is I think the most concerning part about it. Like if he were 22, 23, but he's like 25 and it's been a regular starter for a few years now. And to see this kind of regression, it's really.
01:06:09
Speaker
But I think it also speaks to why he's sometimes so effective for Cameroon is that he doesn't have to do, like he can just do a job. Like he can just be the guy that shuts down Mosela or whoever and whoever the right, you know, whoever he's matched up against on the right wing. And that's sufficient at it for a team like Cameroon, who's not necessarily trying to play really expansive football.
01:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean going playing international soccer is basically like going back to 1988. So, you know, it's interesting you guys have provided like a lot of context on new, which, you know, in some cases has been disappointing but in other cases makes me want to watch him in more detail than the, you know, the scattered sounders games I've been able to see so far.
01:06:52
Speaker
I hope he's just in a rough patch because he is so much fun to root for and he is a really talented player. And I think it's just possible that he's just having a really bad run up for him because it's not like he's been this bad all year, but it's been long enough now that I'm definitely.
01:07:11
Speaker
I also think Majoranda is a really good player. So this is, you know, depending on the identity you want to have, particularly going forward, like this is going to be a significant debate. Like, you know, there are a lot of teams in league where Majoranda would be a positive player and they're starting 11. So
01:07:29
Speaker
You know, maybe this is a kind of a some good question is to ask what 25 year olds like, are you capable of being a better contributor at this position than a Jimmy Madrada. He's not he's never going to be an all star in this league but he's a solid player are you solid is
01:07:45
Speaker
I think you guys get what I'm saying. Like he's an average player, but he's not solid. Like he offers very positive things in specific areas. Like are you going to be a more valuable contributor than this guy? And if you're not, well, that's telling. Yeah. Next question is from Nick Peyton. What is your favorite Seattle Portland rivalry match moment?
01:08:08
Speaker
Ooh. Man, you know, I'm a simple man. I guess the... I don't know. There's a lot of good ones. There are really a lot of good ones, but I think the one, the most satisfying moment I think I had is probably Clint Dempsey's stoppage time header at Portland. And that game, in part because that was such an unexpected result,
01:08:38
Speaker
And the Sounders had been outplayed. Well, I don't know. They'd been outplayed all game, but they definitely basically got played off the pitch in the first half. They went down and went into halftime down a man. And somehow they got a tie out of this game and that it was Clint Dempsey doing it in front of timbers army.
01:08:57
Speaker
Uh, it was just, it was kind of like perfect and that it was a tie. I suppose maybe works well for this narrative that we've crafted about this rivalry.
01:09:10
Speaker
That's also the moment that stands out for me, just because I was working for NBC at that time and we're still kind of trying to post gamers, not gamers but we were trying to post posts that had like a two paragraph lead and like three things we learn. And it was one of the few times that I was not upset to hit control a delete.
01:09:29
Speaker
on what I was doing because it was totally satisfying. On a lot of levels like Dempsey's performance was just like so Dempsey in terms of what he had meant to Seattle versus Portland and the context to which he came back to the league and Portland's kind of role in that or the position they were in when he came back. But also I think that was the same day that like Diego Charat had two goals too, which was like, you know, not something that ever happens. So
01:09:58
Speaker
What would that end up being like a four four game at Providence Park or something like that and that was a two two one. Okay, also there was the other there was another one you're right there was a I'm getting in the mixed up, but there was a four four game where.
01:10:11
Speaker
Like a very, it kind of played out similarly. Yeah. That was actually, that was going to be mine. So like 87, but like the four four game of Providence park was really like walk out of the press box and being like, what could you possibly ask for beyond what we just saw from a game? It was just incredible. Yeah. Yeah. That four four, that that was, yeah, that game played out very, the centers weren't down a man in that one, but it did play out very similarly where they were down.
01:10:40
Speaker
two goals at a couple of different times in that one. Yeah. They, they scored early. They scored like two minutes in or something. Kenny Cooper scored. And that was, that was, I think probably like the, the objectively most entertaining game that they've played, like lots of goals, lots of lead changes, uh, late, late drama. That was a, that was a good one.
01:11:07
Speaker
I feel like so many of these games are entertaining, like the game in 20, I guess it was 2021, where the Timbers, it was like May or something like that. The Timbers had just come off of their big Champions League slog. They were coming back from Mexico, had a game here, and they were dead tired. Coming back from altitude, Gio chose to start his best 11, and somehow they outplayed the Sounders over the first 60 minutes, and they won a penalty.
01:11:34
Speaker
going into the South End for Larry versus Fry and Fry saves it. And then two minutes later, Seattle forces their own penalty. And I think it was Freddie that forced it, I'm sure, or he forced or scored it, but it always involves Freddie. And it was just like with that save of the penalty, the game just turned and Seattle ended up winning that game like two to one, but it was two to one only because like Portland scored and like stoppage time to make it within the goal. Yeah, that was the first. That was the first time they played last year, I think.
01:12:03
Speaker
Yeah. And so we were still in the pandemic. We're still kind of under like these quasi rules. And like I said, like the timbers left that game with like four players hurt because they had really pushed to get like everybody to play in that game because it was a rivalry game and then they still lost at home. And it's just so epitomizes what these teams seem to go through every time like this weekend.
01:12:24
Speaker
It's in Seattle. They're unveiling the banner. Seattle has, you know, kind of fully righted themselves for the hole that they had to dig for themselves versus CCL. So it's like, yeah, Portland's going to win this game two to one. We've seen this before. Stop. Stop it, Richard. Don't speak that into existence.
01:12:47
Speaker
All right. Uh, another one from inner personal says, seems like national soccer media has already forgotten about champions league and are on the next narrative. What more did the Sounders need to accomplish this season for Spencer to win coach of the year? He won't, he won't. He's just, he won't, he's never going to date. I, I, it's Trundle, Trundle is getting it. Yeah. Or Pat Noonan.
01:13:08
Speaker
Yeah. I think that, um, I, this is something I felt for a long time and I still think it, I don't think there's any way it's ever going to change. I think a lot of people in MLS media don't think Brian Schmetzer is special. They think that he is a, he's writing circumstances. They think that he's, he's not interesting. They don't think he's tactically sophisticated. They think that the Sounders win because they have a good front office and they sign good players. Uh, and I think that you have to be willfully.
01:13:36
Speaker
Ignorant like you have to be being intentionally obtuse to think that, but I think that that's what they believe like I just. There are some people that have come around, but I think that there are enough people in MLS media that that have votes for coach of the year that just that's what they think about them and that's just the way it's going to be and.
01:13:53
Speaker
You know, it's unfortunate, but it's the way it is. I think the other challenge is that the coach of the year to me, maybe more than any other award in MLS is so narrative based and you need to be able to tell this story. And if you don't have by far the, like, there are two types of coaches that tend to win this and it's either.
01:14:16
Speaker
the coach that runs away with the supporters shield and sets a points record and you just sort of have to give it to him that's you know the bruce arena bob bradley type of coach that wins that or it's someone who had the most unexpected performance
01:14:32
Speaker
And, and that's how you get like Pat Newton, like Steve Terundolo sort of hits two of these these narratives and so that gives him a like a big head start. Pat Newton comes in and takes a three times wooden spoon winner and maybe puts him in the playoffs. Wilford Nancy is another one who, you know, took a
01:14:53
Speaker
You can tell this story about how he took over for Thierry Henry and basically turned around the Montreal impact and turned them into contenders. And I think what's tough with Brian Schmetzer is like the story is he's a really good coach and he gets really good results. And yes, he won Champions League, but do we even consider Champions League for this award? And that'll be a whole separate debate.
01:15:17
Speaker
And, and I think, you know, it's, it's not fair, but I do think that that sort of is what it comes down to is, is like, once you've been in the league long enough, you need to kind of blow people's minds with something unexpected in order to win this award. Yeah. I remember talking to a coach like six years ago and.
01:15:35
Speaker
They kind of express their opinions on these coach of the year awards. And of course, the only reason I'm bringing this up is because they're not a big fan of it. But they recommended kind of a way of approaching this that I've, I haven't heard of a better idea. When you're considering coach of the year, just sit down and list the obstacles that that coach had to overcome during the year. And if the obstacle is good team playing good, they're not a coach of the year.
01:16:00
Speaker
Like Churundalo, I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but if the obstacles are had to navigate Champions League through the first couple of months of the season, had to overcome an MVP candidate blowing out his knee. I don't know that Brian Schmetzer is the coach of the year, but I just named two obstacles. And I'm not sure that Steve Churundalo has overcome any obstacles. Right. He gets the most talented team.
01:16:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like coaching a lot of times is about, um, enabling your team to overcome the challenges that they're going to be faced. And most of those challenges are within the game. Like when things go bad, have you built in, uh, a personality and resilience to problem solving real time. But some of them is, Hey, we lost one of our two or three best players. How do we adjust? How do we have a mentality that says that we're expected to adjust. We're not going to give into this and,
01:16:56
Speaker
I would hope that every coach, every voter, when they go through the coaches at the end of the year, think about that. You're talking about the Montreal situation. Perhaps reforming a club ethos after our coach leaves is a challenge, but I'm not sure that it is. Maybe those guys hated Thierry Henry. I don't know.
01:17:17
Speaker
Think about it in those terms and not try to come up with like these stylized reasons why people are and aren't coaches of the year. I will say this.
01:17:30
Speaker
Whenever I read national media or heard national media on broadcast, the amount of times they got basic things wrong about Seattle and Portland was galling. Like just about the tactics, about the principles a team played with, about coaches' philosophies, about just little things about player tendencies. I always just went back to, you could have just not said that.
01:17:54
Speaker
You could have just not tried to have this nuanced opinion that is clearly not based on the thing that most people listening to this broadcast, most people reading this article right now, they've watched all these games, man. They know you're not right about this. And so I know that you guys probably talk about this or allude to this in a lot of different shows. You've done it whenever I'm on. There's like something about the national media that's saying something and it doesn't quite jive with the approach the team has.
01:18:22
Speaker
And it's particularly galling with Brian Schmetzer because there's no more coach that is both consistent and consistent in telling you why he's consistent about his things than Brian Schmetzer. So if you're not figuring out why Brian Schmetzer is doing something, you're willfully ignoring the sounders.
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, that, that is kind of the, I think, and that's also one of the things I think that ends up hurting him weirdly is that he's like, just to, he just like, he just says it. Like, yeah, but look, if you, you look across the league, how many teams would love to have Brian Schmester come in and just be a consistent guy. Like just be a guy that every day when you show up for work, you know what the expectations are going to be. Jeez. Like.
01:19:10
Speaker
You're talking man. I'll tell you if, if I was, if I was a team right now and I was looking to hire someone, I would be thinking long and hard about Wade Weber because he comes from a very similar. He's cut from a very similar cloth as Brian Spencer. Um, I've been, you know, this is getting off tangent a little bit, but, uh, there was a time when I, like, I think he like, in like Brian Spencer, he's a little easy to overlook because he's, uh,
01:19:40
Speaker
you know, he doesn't do anything flashy. But man, if you want someone that's just going to come in and kind of say it how it is, and sort of like be able to connect with players, I think that's something that Brian does really well. I think it's something that Wade Weber does really well. It's something that the Sounders have done a good job of identifying and
01:20:01
Speaker
Well, I also think that's why the Atlanta situation is so interesting to me because the upper level decision making in that team has not been incredibly consistent. No, but they clearly have brought in somebody who has come through a certain approach to how you team build.
01:20:18
Speaker
And are they going to give Padeta a chance to really bet in the team or are they just going to keep sprinkling in another eight, $12 million signing every once in a while and taking things out of the equation? Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I've made this case before and not to get again too off.
01:20:37
Speaker
Tangent, but I think one of the things that has hurt Atlanta is that they don't have the same fear of failure that a lot of other teams do where their friend, that's, I think a front office problem where most teams know that if you spend 10, eight, $10 million on a player, it's probably a one shot deal. Like you get to do this once.
01:20:59
Speaker
And if it doesn't work out, you don't get it. You probably don't get to do it again. And even if it does work out, you might, I mean, the sounders haven't spent, uh, they, they, you know, they, they made Raul Rueda as a record signing in 2018. They haven't spent anywhere near that since then on one player. And, and I, I'm sure they knew that when they signed Rueda is that that was the idea that it was like, yeah, this, we got a hit on this because.
01:21:24
Speaker
We're not going to be able to spend this all the time. Whereas I mean, how many times has Atlanta spent, uh, the sounders committed, I think $10 million to Rudy Diaz when they signed them. I bet you Atlanta signed 12 players where they've committed that much in that time. And most of them haven't worked out.
01:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable as a way of doing business. Like the way they sell it is, this is our business model.
Player Signings and Roster Strategies
01:21:49
Speaker
We sign these players and we, but they don't, they're selling these guys at a loss. Like you have to actually be good at flipping assets for a return for that to be a sustainable business model.
01:22:01
Speaker
I mean, even like some of the guys they brought in I was like, you know, upper level tam signings or tam signings it's just, are they getting the kind of payoff from those signings that you see like a Seattle getting the Portland getting a Colorado, you know Colorado has had this interesting model where
01:22:18
Speaker
hey, if you've got a prominent MLS player that you are trying to move out because you want to go out for the high profile player, hey, we're willing to bet on them. Give us your Zardas, give us your Acosta, give us your, you know, give us your Roseberry, give us these guys because we still think that they're valuable. It's like, you know, all those guys I just mentioned would fit in nicely into that second layer of Atlanta's talent scheme. And Atlanta seems to be ignoring that level of their roster construction.
01:22:45
Speaker
that's where you that's where you went is that level yeah i i actually not today i i don't i don't know i can't think of any good uh tam signings that that Atlanta has made like it seems like they
01:23:03
Speaker
They've made a lot more, I guess they've got, right now they have one guy that's been pretty good. Anyway, I don't, we don't need, it's not a, it's not an Atlanta United podcast, uh, believe it or not. We know how you love to steer in that direction. So I know, I know, I know. I mean, I think, uh, Sanders fans want Gonza to do well. So.
01:23:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. The next one is from EMT Marsh. It kind of seems like the rivalry has gone a little stale lately. Other than a blowout, what do we need to see on Saturday to really get forehead veins popping? That is a vivid image. I don't know it's stale. I guess maybe we've had... I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a rivalry, right? Yeah. Like, I don't find it to be stale, but you're right. It's not vein popping, forehead, whatever.
Rivalry Evolution and Entertainment Value
01:23:51
Speaker
There needs to be some kind of animosity, but I just don't see other than it being contrived. It's just not there. Right. Uh, maybe that's Ozzy leaving. Uh, maybe that's Brad retiring. Um, but I, there just aren't a lot of people that are going to be on the field this weekend that are going to be like, I have to prove myself in this game. Um, like we were kind of alluding to earlier, like with the piece that you were talking about, people are going to say the right things.
01:24:22
Speaker
but is it gonna define their life? Yeah, not so much. Yeah, and I think part of the problem, if you can call it that, is I don't know that either team has a bunch of, has like players that, like even Diego Charra, like here's a player who, I suppose in theory, sounders fans could hate because he's, you know, he's a physical player, he's sort of in a Aussie mode, but like,
01:24:51
Speaker
I don't, I don't know that anyone hates him at all. Like he seems kind of like a likable guy. I don't, he's annoying as hell to play against, but he's not, I've never thought he was any dirtier than any other. He's not Will Johnson. No, he's certainly not Will Johnson. I mean, that is like, I think that's true. Like there's just not like a hateable guy on the team in the way Blanco is pretty.
01:25:15
Speaker
hateable, I guess. But yeah, like Valeri was like the least hateable star in the league. And I think this isn't applicable to the players and it's not applicable to the entirety of the fan base. But like for me personally, since the Iron Front thing, since some of the other off-field things in Portland that have kind of maybe
01:25:40
Speaker
earned them a little bit of solidarity from other supporters around the league. I think that that's taken a little bit of the edge off the rivalry, where when you can connect with people on a human level like that, where through the rivalry it's like, but we have these other shared values that are really important to us.
01:26:01
Speaker
It makes it a little easier to, or a little harder to hate them. But, you know, the sounders went down there last year and won 6-2, and I was a pig and shit, like I was happier in nine billion months. So it still has that potential to, you know, really excite.
01:26:20
Speaker
But that's the exact, that's the exact kind of result that like the animosity should be about. Because if I were like a timbers fan, I'd be going like, yeah, but it wasn't really like the game, the game didn't play like a six two and the response that does not matter at all. I'm going to remember Majorana's goal for, I want to remember Majorana's goal forever. Like that was one of the best goals ever. And the fact that it was like the, you know,
01:26:44
Speaker
The flame, you know, putting the crust on the creme brulee of this this evening, that makes it only even better. And yeah, I guess like.
01:26:53
Speaker
If we're sitting here right now and asking questions, like how can the rivalry be more acrimonious after that kind of result, then we are probably beyond it until we have like another kind of red card wedding situation or like, look, it was only a couple of years ago that the timbers went into Seattle and won in the playoffs. And if we're already at the point where we're wondering why that kind of like taste in the mouth hasn't lasted, then there aren't very many tastes that are going to linger for that long.
01:27:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, these two teams play an enormous like I would say by rivalry game standards, I feel like these two teams play a lot of really entertaining games for one reason or another. Like there's not a lot of boring to zero results. Although, the last time Portland came to Seattle they got that exact one so
01:27:43
Speaker
uh but i mean they haven't been boring like we kind of talked about the formula it's like early timbers goal that is kind of against the run of play and then it's even playing in the timbers score another one early in the second half and seattle fans said they're kind of going is this really happening again and the answer is yes it's happening again yeah i think that's the problem is that we've had some of these some of these games i think a lot of
01:28:07
Speaker
If I'm to put my head in Ian, if I'm to get in Ian's head, I think it's that he's viewing the rivalry games through the games that have happened in Seattle exclusively. And so I could see from that perspective how maybe it does start to feel a little stale and annoying and boring. But if you look at the, if you're watching all these games, you look at the last, you know, 12 games through, you know, all of them, I think, I still think this is a really compelling rivalry. So.
01:28:38
Speaker
I also think people are always just comparing this rivalry to what rivalries are supposed to be. And this rivalry ultimately is not supposed to be anything than what it is. So just because it doesn't match the vitriolic tweet from a Liverpool fan towards Manchester United before that derby does not mean that this rivalry is any less than or any greater than.
Celebrating Team Achievements
01:28:58
Speaker
Yeah. This is kind of a procedural question, but I'll let you answer it if you want, Aaron. Or actually, I'll let you ask this one. I'll skip to the next one. This one's from Bowel Moon. Is that right? Well, like, it's like the- Wool Moon? Like the, it's like a bread thing. Ah, all right. If you were a permanent celebration of our CCL victory, what would you look like?
01:29:26
Speaker
Uh, I would just be a Jersey that just had the big trophy on it. Like no sponsor, just an entire panel of the Jersey taken outside. Yeah. That's pretty good. Anything about that, right? No. Yeah. I, it would, I will say, I hope that I do hope that MLS comes up with a.
01:29:56
Speaker
with like a way of actually celebrating this in a way that is permanent. I like the idea of putting the star beneath the crest the way that they do in Mexico. I don't think there's a lot of countries that actually do it that way, but I like that. So I will ask a question that you just alluded to Jeremiah from Bill Jones TRPT. Will the Sounders be making official CCL winners patches we can buy and put on our jerseys?
01:30:25
Speaker
So the sounders did have some available through the pro shop. I think they were like 12 bucks and they would apply them to any current Jersey. So either the legacy green or the Jimi Hendrix Jersey.
Betting Odds and Non-MLS Games Impact
01:30:41
Speaker
And I was told that they were hoping to have them back in stock for this weekend's game. So hopefully, they will be. And I don't want to speak. I don't know that Likit is going to be making these, but I did hear that some enterprising person on, I think it was eBay, did make some that you could buy and apply yourself.
01:31:09
Speaker
Uh, all right, we're going to close out with West coast. Brian, I'm going to Vegas. How much should I put down on the sounders? So the only thing that I prepared for, for this podcast, I did look up the current odds that Vegas is giving for unless cup and the sounders are at 1600, which to me, I'm not plus a plus 1600 1600. Wow. I'm not like a expert gambler, but that seems like the sweet spot to me.
01:31:35
Speaker
Right. Like, yeah, that's the same odds as Nashville, Austin, the galaxy. Um, that's worse. That's worse odds than Montreal. Um, I think the disrespect, I think Vegas has gotten a little better at, at giving them less odds, but I do think they're still mostly just looking at the table and saying, well, yeah, LAFC is plus three 33.
01:32:02
Speaker
That's bad money. I would say, man, whatever you feel comfortable losing, I feel like this is as good of a bet as you can really get on something like MLS Cup because that's a really crazy thing to wager on in the first place.
01:32:23
Speaker
But if you put, you know, X dollars where X is whatever, you're not going to kick yourself for putting down and, you know, throwing away into the wind on the Sounders and you win. Let's say that's 100 bucks, right? That's 1600 bucks. I will add that. I think I suspect that one of the I would think that Vegas is a little bit more new, like a little bit more
01:32:47
Speaker
sophisticated than just looking at the table. But what I suspect they might be doing is looking at things like 538's rankings. And I was shocked at how they had the Sounders point total at 51. And I'm like, if you give me the over on 50, I will bet my house on the over at 51. Yeah.
01:33:14
Speaker
It's crazy. Like maybe not my house, but like that's like, I think, I think one of the problems I think with, with MLS, like from a betting perspective, I suspect is that all these.
01:33:27
Speaker
all these number crunchers that are looking at at MLS are still so focused on the data that they get from MLS games and they like the Sounders played eight games outside of MLS against good competition and that I don't feel like that data gets fed into any of these uh into any of these uh machines that are like spitting out
01:33:50
Speaker
analysis and like there's a lot of good data in those eight games. Considering the center, that's like a third of the center season.
01:34:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's wild to me. 1600. Oh, I would absolutely. They've got, they've got sports betting over it's, uh, emerald queen, you know, I might go down to emerald queen. 10 minutes, 10 minutes over here. Yeah. Let's meet all those places slots. Yeah. Yeah. It's near you, right? Yeah. It's like 10 minutes. The men's way. Let's do it. You don't come up, Richard place in, uh, place in, I don't know. Dice. I have no idea. I've never been. Oh.
01:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to come up. I'm looking at the MLS table right now.
01:34:33
Speaker
Western conference, I just have a hard time looking at the Western conference standings and seeing Seattle as anything, but like a second favorite. Like if you believe in LAFC, fine. But in terms of point points per game, the only teams besides LAFC ahead of them are Austin salt Lake and the galaxy. And based on how those teams performed last year, like you should expect a little bit of regression. And even if you don't say that, like, how do you get to 1600? I'm
01:35:02
Speaker
1600 seems like a very generous number. Yeah, yeah I'm not, and that doesn't mean like I think the sounder should be favorites but at 1600 that's.
01:35:11
Speaker
That's a good value. It's really funny too, because LAFC is plus 333, right? And then they just fall off a cliff after that. NYCFC is plus 1000. That's a great, that's a great... Yeah, that's also pretty good. Yeah. NYCFC is a great team. The union or plus 1200, I think that's a good bet. I think any bet but LAFC is pretty good. And I think even LAFC is not terrible.
01:35:40
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, like, in terms of gold... There's money to be made in that. Pythagorean record, like, NYCFC is, like, right close to LAFC. So, like, the disparity between those things doesn't make sense. I hate to say it, but I think the timbers are pretty good at that, too. They're plus 5,000. 5,000? Plus 5,000. If the timbers are not that far out of the playoffs, and if they get into the playoffs, they're easily capable of going on a run. So, that's 50 to 1.
01:36:08
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, I'm not sure the timbers deserve to be 50 to one, but like you're saying, they're probably just looking, I don't want to speculate as to what they're looking at. They're probably heavily influenced by the people that are betting and, you know. Right. So. Well, I got it. I'm going to be in Nevada in a month. I hope some of these odds are holding up because I like those. I like those for a few things.
01:36:35
Speaker
But all right, well, that's that.
Podcast Closing and Anecdotes
01:36:38
Speaker
Thanks, Richard, for doing this. Yeah, thanks for having me back on. Like I said, it was like coming over to an old friend's house again. It was great. Yeah. And so with that, I guess I should also thank our sponsors, Full Pool Wines and Watson's Counter. I have a little funny anecdote about
01:37:00
Speaker
about full pool wines. Kellen Rowe announced that he is putting out a, he's like starting a wine subscription service, I believe. And I asked- What? Yeah, exactly. And I asked Paul, the owner of full pool, if Kellen had talked to him about this and he's like, no, but he should just buy, he should buy me out. And I'm like, well, you gotta make, if he does that, you gotta make a term of the sale that he keeps our sponsorship, right? And he's like, well, of course.
01:37:29
Speaker
Of course. Well, of course. But, God, I hope I didn't blow that. I hope Paul was saying that to me in jest as I intended it to be. Now I feel bad. Kellan's not listening, so it's fine. Kellan's not listening, exactly. All right. Well, with that.
01:37:50
Speaker
I guess that's the show. I'm Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Richard Farley, Aaron Campo, and Lick It. This is No Study Yetis. And remember, you will never be all alone.
01:38:18
Speaker
Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. Your power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll on, Columbia Roll on. We love you. Let's win another one!