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fixated on muna and getting parasocial
21 Plays11 days ago
Hellooo and welcome back to Fixated with Joelle & Ellen! This episode is all about the greatest band in the world, MUNA, and holding yourself back from the parasocial impulse. Enjoy!!
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Music: House loops 107 simple mix down tempo.wav by josefpres License: Creative Commons 0
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Transcript
Introduction to Fixated Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Hi! Welcome back to Fixated, podcast with us, Joelle and Ellen. I'm Ellen. And I'm Joelle. This a podcast where we talk about all the media and culture and stuff that we just can't look away from. the stuff we just can't get over. Yes, and why it matters all so, so much
Focus on Muna and Parasociality
00:00:20
Speaker
to us. In this episode, we talk about the greatest man in the world, Muna.
00:00:25
Speaker
Love y'all. And then we do some calling in and calling out on the topic of parasociality. It was a very fun and very passionate. Exactly. So, enjoy!
00:00:38
Speaker
Here we are once again. Once again. Happy Saturday. Yeah, happy saturday yeah we we're going on Saturdays. so if you're listening on a Saturday, happy Saturday to you. Exactly. Exactly. It's like a gorgeous day outside. The weather here, i don't know about in New York, has been really good. Like yeah fantastic. It's pretty nice today. Yeah.
00:00:56
Speaker
Like spring for real.
Joelle's Mascot Fascination
00:00:58
Speaker
Yeah. Thank God. I love it. I'm ah such a spring girl. Yeah. Like East Coast, Best Coast, because we have seasons. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say it. Yeah. Yeah. Not that I know much about the West Coast, actually. But like, why would you want it to 70 degrees and sunny all the time? No, it sounds good, but no.
00:01:19
Speaker
No, it sounds good. But like, then you forget. It's like you need the winter to remind you how dark the dark times can get, you know? Yeah. Because the sun is really good. If you're in the sun all the time, it doesn't feel as good. Yeah, exactly. You get used to it.
00:01:34
Speaker
I agree. And you're right. Some would not really have the same. Yes, some people wouldn't get it. But I completely get That first like 65 degree day in New York City.
00:01:47
Speaker
like let's get after it so yeah yeah that we try like exactly anyway well what have you been what are your non-media fixations of the week what have you been fixated on i have mainly one he's which perfect yeah mainly one we're cracking down uh-huh with ourselves um my non-media fixation for this week is the new york liberty mascot Oh my god, Ellie the Elephant.
00:02:15
Speaker
I love her. I love Ellie the Elephant. Famously, am actually completely tickled and amused by mascots. You are. I didn't even realize that was like something that I had, like an affinity that had. This is like one of my main things about you. Anytime I come across a video of like a mascot dancing or falling down, I'm immediately sending it your way. Yes, you do that. You love that shit. And I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, I guess to be loved is to be known. Like, that's crazy because yes, I do love that. And it's something that like my sister and I laugh about like all the time. I know they're just hilarious. They're really funny. And when they do silly things, especially like when they kind of, I don't know, like it makes me think of like uncanny valley thing, but not actually uncanny valley. But you're like, course, there's like a human being in there. So when they also like do things that are just like slightly less silly,
00:03:04
Speaker
like in line with being like a character mascot oh yeah no waving and like doing the conventional things as soon as they do something slightly unconventional it cracks me up like anyone in like especially like amateur anyone dressing up in any suit like an elmo suit for like a kid's like party and then they're out there just like drinking and dancing but like still i'm like i'm like that is so silly it's so funny but anyways back to ellie the elephant she's brilliant yes it's so funny to me adorable stunning the like whoever is in charge like i think you've gotten your flowers and your kudos and yeah just i will continue continue to put that on you because it's so funny like and that's the thing like i saw some like
Social Media Aspirations and Rom-Com Fantasies
00:03:52
Speaker
from I think their home opener, probably, because the season just started. yeah so there was like new ellen and She was like doing this whole like Whitney Houston thing that was just cracking me up as a Whitney Houston fan as well. I was just like, oh, this is too much. i was like, you guys are so... like ah Love it. Crack me up. that Her like fab.
00:04:09
Speaker
Her bog-ass Bob. i was like... I was like, yes! And then, just like, on top of that, I saw some other the video probably from, like, The Cut or something like that. Whatever. i think it was The Cut.
00:04:24
Speaker
But, and they were just, like, talking to fans about, like, loving to go to Liberty Games and stuff. And i was like, it just, like, dawned on me um where I was like, I also want to become like a season's ticket holder to the New York Liberty. Like get me to the Liberty, but get me to New York so I can go be like Liberty's fan. um Because seems like fun. Yes. I want to become a fan and a season ticket holder. Cause this also is about a little bit, my like light pursuit of becoming like a wag, you know, a WNBA. Yeah. Like I think it's the steps we have to take. Yeah. to realize that potential future, that very viable future, I think. That's a good first step. If you're in with Ellie, then you're in with the players, right? That's how that works? Exactly. Yeah. No, in my future, I see a real, like,
00:05:19
Speaker
I've always pictured myself in a real rom-com situation. Anytime watch a rom-com, some sort of, like I watched You, Me and Tuscany. Right. Any sort of ridiculous situation, I'm like, well, I see myself really truly ending up in a situation like that. but Yeah. But the thing is, like, I really think someday i could be, like, the social media girl for, like, some team, you know?
00:05:39
Speaker
and think And then that leads to love. yeah Naturally. novel Exactly. you know Unfortunately, that is. This will bring us back to how you kind of like hate Troy Barrett, but like low key, that's like. Don't you say that to me because I know.
00:05:55
Speaker
not going to date Troy Barrett. Yeah. I'm going to date someone who's good. like Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a Harris, right? Sorry. that's Yeah. Well, I don't like Harris either. Yeah. Yeah. But I would be a Harris in that situation. 100% in that situation. No, but yeah, like Ellie's, Ellie's wonderful. i want to continue when, when she and Ramsey's like Fordham Ramsey's linked up. I was like,
00:06:20
Speaker
like oh i'm scrooge actually yes i was like i'm really excited to have there she's a real celeb i think they like did this i think they did a mascot meetup like i think they did a lot of new york yeah exactly yeah all the new york mascots came yeah yeah and ramses is also adorable i love ramses he's so cute so cute which actually this is like a lot of growth for me i don't know if you know this about me i used to be quite afraid of um not Not like a real mascot, like in Disney World or like ah like an Ellie the Elephant. Like, I wouldn't be afraid of that. But like the the less like branded ones, I was quite freaked out by. Like, i did yeah I was not a fan. And I guess I'm still not. But I was not a fan of walking through Times Square. because Right, right. Like... yeah
00:07:03
Speaker
And that's just a different beast altogether. Like I'm not charmed by most of the ones in Times Square because it's Times Square. but it's It's like scary. and yeah That's before they take
Understanding Parasocial Relationships
00:07:12
Speaker
their heads off. that on Oh my God.
00:07:16
Speaker
really scary to me do not but yeah that's my non-media fixation my one everyone pat me on the back that's my one congratulations on thank you thank you um and what is your non-media fixation my non-media fixation of this week is like nobody's gonna like this i was gonna say it's a fun one for me it's a fun one oh i i'm scared the word insouciant o Right? Like, that's why I'm like, I'm the proper audience for it. I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God, girl. I was reading something like early in the week and I came across it I was like, I've seen it before, but I really like clocked it. And I was like, that is a good word. Yeah. And I looked it up just to be sure I knew what it was talking about. It means like careless, nonchalant for people.
00:08:03
Speaker
and Everyone who doesn't know what insouciant means. And since that day, since I noted her, I've been seeing it everywhere, which I love when that happens. Yes, I love when that happens. Such a good word. I don't honestly have much else to say about it. It looks good. Two things.
00:08:21
Speaker
and i mean that it looks good two things I wonder, do you have like your like flex word, like a word that you're like, i maybe insouciant is a new one. But for me, the moment that I learned the word vicissitude, like when you say like the vicissitudes of life is like the like the ups and downs, you know? So it's kind of like the...
00:08:40
Speaker
Turbulence or ups and downs or whatever. yeah Love using that word. like Love when i like find the chance to use it. I'll be like, boom, vicissitudes. because it just I like that. there's this it's It's a good word. It sounds good. I like it. yeah um So I wonder if you have one. And then what I also thought about when you like learn a word and it keeps on coming up. I had that recently with the word frisson.
00:09:02
Speaker
Like a frisson. F-R-I-S-S-O-N, I think. um And I believe it means it's like a A sudden, fleeting, physical sensation.
00:09:13
Speaker
Oh, I like that. Yeah, I've definitely come across that word before, but it's one of those ones I probably just was like, I guess I know what that means and didn't look it up. I like that. Yeah, i really didn't. And then I just saw it everywhere. And it's such like a cool little word, too. yeah Now you're going to start seeing insouciant. Insouciant. Absolutely everywhere. Well, I would hope so. I think in the past seven days, I've seen it three or
Recent Media Fixations
00:09:31
Speaker
four times organically. like That's a lot for a word like that. Right? For a word like that. A word like that. Yeah. ah Love it. I love words, which is...
00:09:40
Speaker
really something seems so um what's it called a trite to say maybe but it is true i've been thinking about that a lot where i'm like you know i really do like the english language it is so fun to put words together it's crazy i read it's making me think i think i recommended it to you when i was reading it but a while ago i read a book called algo speak how social media is transforming the future of language by adam alexic yeah guy um i really really liked it it was so interesting that's like one of those yeah like internet tea books in a way but i i have one here actually yeah i like it i've never read but i also love one about like linguistics in general because i'm a nerd when it comes to that kind of thing um yeah It was a perfect combination of the two of those. And it was so cool. And that he's you know the author is like, a he does TikToks on um like language and the development of language a lot. And he talks really fast. So it great audiobook because he was speaking so quickly.
00:10:37
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Yeah, I saw him on... He went to Oxford, that's all. Not like you didn't go to Oxford. He was in Oxford. It was like getting interviewed by, like I don't know, one of the like very few like Oxford influencer people who's always asking people about like what they study and like yeah yeah like that type of thing. Right outside the Radcam...
00:10:54
Speaker
and we're talking But yeah, this one, as I said, like, literally never read it. I should probably, it's one of those things where I'm like, hey, Joelle, how about you try reading a book that you have, and you have had for years. It's called Because Internet, Understanding the New Rules of Language by Gretchen McCullough.
00:11:09
Speaker
I should probably read it or something. But yeah, okay, great. Is that is that the... um That's it. Is that your one? That's my one for this week. Crazy, look at us. yeah They said it could be done. We managed to talk about media. We managed to bring it back around.
00:11:24
Speaker
hey We do our best. i met That was positive from me. I'm a fan. Anyways. yeah um Well, yes. What have you been fixated on media-wise this week? Okay. usually Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to remember what I have been watching and stuff. um Because it's mainly, I guess, yeah, mainly like watching some stuff, listening to some music. And it's mainly the music that I'm interested in talking about. But just for like a sprinkle of what I've been watching, I like decided to kind of do my little like movie blitz. I was like, damn, you know that feeling when you're like, oh, wow, it's been a while since i've seen a movie. I mean, like, it's been like,
00:12:03
Speaker
Like maybe a week. Yeah. I think the last movie I watched was probably last. Yeah. Probably one week ago. Yeah. Exactly. For a long time. Yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like we to watch another fake, fake. I'm like, I'm so fake, you know, living i am literally a fake movie girl. No. And so that means of course that I watched like a bunch in succession. I've watched like four, like one a day for like four or five years. um and so okay i guess like the major the major things i've seen i did see devil wears prada too i'm remembering the moment at you did in a way it's like not much like to comment on in a sense like other than like it was good like i i i did quite enjoy it and won't spoil anything though i feel like it's not like spoilerific really like for me it will for you exactly and i respect people not wanting i don't like spoilers so like you know but yeah i just thought it was like enjoyable and like a really good like reboot sequel type of thing like they i think it had like a very like full robust story to it still um it was not resting on the laurels and even like all the like reference to the first movie i don't know just came across well like i just enjoyed it um
00:13:13
Speaker
I'm not really a fan of a reboot, technically. Or I guess it wasn't a reboot, it was a sequel. I'm not always a fan of a sequel. I'm very much Hollywood, please quit doing that. I would find myself here in that camp. But it was good.
00:13:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I love Anne Hathaway. i just do. I mean, would yeah i will find some opportunity to just like just go on and on and on. But like, what? What? What a woman. I love Anne Hathaway. um She's just a joy. And she's she was really good. And all of them are really good. And all the characters seem just like very much like, I don't know, just still well written, like appropriately different from where we last left them, but like okay also grown and like somewhat changed. I don't know. it's just It was just good. I liked it. That was my biggest worry when I heard about this movie coming because the way that the first one ended, I didn't understand how they the second one. She left She didn't want to be a part of that world. And so she left. And I mean, I guess don't know me, but if I trust you, if you say that it's well done and it makes sense. yeah i I thought so. and i liked it
00:14:14
Speaker
Then i watched I watched some stuff that very funnily, very conveniently, was very like Mother's Day related. i would so i would characterize. um And I wasn't even thinking about it for real like that. I was just trying to like watch widely and and stuff. um But I watched how Stella got her groove back for the first time because i understood it to be kind of like a classic in a sense. um with Angela Bassett being beautiful, gorgeous. um I think it was like late 90s. I think it's like 1998.
00:14:47
Speaker
And yeah, like Angela Bassett, she's like a working woman and she goes to Jamaica. It's like almost 40 or 40 year old woman goes to Jamaica and gets her groove back.
00:14:58
Speaker
ah Right. like um It's just an inspiration for us all. No, it's. um Yeah. Her year of impossible difference. Her year of impossible difference. I'm just not realizing, have we talked about that? Like, I don't know if I've addressed if we've said that before, actually. i don't know that we need to.
00:15:19
Speaker
All you need know is 2026 is the year of impossible difference. Exactly. Exactly. And we've been holding onto that for dear life as it and like jerks us around, takes us by our hair and swings us around in the air. That can be good or bad. Like it doesn't matter. As long as your year is impossibly different. like its um So yeah, it's her year of impossible difference. And she meets 20 year old Taye Diggs.
00:15:44
Speaker
You know, i wanted to be so charitable about the like accent work that he was doing. But it was just it's so distractingly bad. Like it is so bad. He's supposed to be this like native Jamaican.
00:15:56
Speaker
And you're like, crazy. That's crazy how bad you sound. But say that with all the respect, ah you know, like respect. What else you gonna Yeah. And then they make it work.
00:16:09
Speaker
Spoiler alert. They try to make it work with, um, it's like It was good. It was good. But honestly, not even like, honestly, i didn't even care like about the romance that much in a way Like it was, it was, it was solid. It was, it was fun. But I didn't realize that Whoopi Goldberg was in there and she like plays her friend. And I loved that relationship. That was really sweet. um It's like sad on that front, but that was like the moments in the movie that actually like got me and got me choked up. and this really reminding me This is like barely related. I just, now I want to mention it. Um,
00:16:40
Speaker
What was that movie with Elizabeth Olsen and Dua Lipa's husband? Eternity? Right. Did you see that one? I did not. No. So it's obviously like it's a love story. It's a love triangle situation, whatever. it was really cute. I enjoyed it. I thought it was really fun. But there's like one part where she's having, Elizabeth Olsen's character is having like the worst time of her life trying to decide you know between these two guys. Like she's just brokenhearted and she can't decide and she's this and she's that. And then like All of a sudden her best friend is there. And it's oh like that was the part or I guess that movie made me cry at a couple of points, but it really got me because I was like, God, like that's so you're having the worst time ever. and
00:17:22
Speaker
all of a sudden she's just there and she's like well yeah like let's figure it out and they have like a beautiful lovely little day together and they're i'm a spoiled movie so i won't say anything but the best friend is like well let's spend eternity together and i'm like it's so oh like yeah it's nice i should see it yeah that's you just need your bestie who cares about the romance like that's what that's what it's all about and look of course i love romance plots of course yes yeah love rom-com stuff like that but a good best friend is like so important oh my gosh you know what movie is good for it's good for that too oh um i was just reminded of it we've definitely mentioned it in like the episode we were talking about the oscars and stuff but sorry baby
00:18:05
Speaker
Sorry Baby is all about the like, about friendship and healing over time. It is, yeah. With friendship. And it's just, oof. And that was, that's just such a good friendship movie. i'm definite I have like a private letterboxed list of like some real best friend movies that make me think about us. Whatever. Remind me of my best friend, my relationship with the most people in my life. And that one's on there, yeah yeah. It's just their relationship is so real i's so love and really is looking out for her yeah damn whatever boring boring doesn't matter who cares movies again talking about movies the whole time we didn't stop oh god yeah and the other like
00:18:59
Speaker
mother related one was I just rewatched anatomy of the fall because I just, i was like, I want to rewatch something, but like not what I'm always rewatching. Like I physically had to be like no pride and prejudice 2005. And I was like, yeah, let me revisit that one. Cause I thought it was so good. And it is so good.
00:19:14
Speaker
It's an awesome movie. Like, wow. Like it is really so engaging and the kid is so good.
Why Muna Matters
00:19:22
Speaker
And I really like, I'm not even that girl for real to like,
00:19:25
Speaker
completely engage with the movie on on the level of more like the aesthetic stuff you know like I do think I get more into like the writing and the themes and the type of like the moods of it I kind of am across sometimes yeah no I mean I like it but I just it's not usually the first thing I think about you know in terms of like really like analyzing why I like a movie but that movie I really like how like they do primary colors in that movie. I don't know like what else to like say about it again to like deepen the analysis but there's just like such vibrant like blue like I think in the French court too it's just like the red white and blue. i don't think it's as simple to say that's because they're like it's set in France. Yeah.
00:20:06
Speaker
like that french about this But it's like even like I was thinking about like the kids like really blue eyes the like near final scene or like when he does his final what's call it called not like testimony but sure.
00:20:20
Speaker
He's like in this like really like bright red sweater and there's I don't know there's just like how it looks it became it like really like clicked in for me for some reason i don't know. um i like how they do the colors in that movie but yes so yes there's some movies those are some of the things i was watching but i also was like listen i was doing my little music thing there's honestly like a lot of music that i haven't gotten the chance and will not take the chance to talk about here as of recent that i've been really enjoying but in particular last friday yes was when moona's new album came out um
00:20:53
Speaker
and' one song i I like the Dancing on the Wall song. I like it a lot. We're big Muna girls over here. yeahr And that's what i kind of want to like get into Yes. Dancing on the Wall, Muna's album. I don't know. I guess we'll start from the point of being like, yes, big Muna girls. They're actually like really important. and we'll explain why. but like Muna's awesome. And i as I was listening to this album, I listened to it through like twice. And then I was just kind of like picking and choosing a little bit yesterday as I continued to go through throughout the day. i was like luna are hit makers It's so good. Like greatest band in the world, but like a little bit actually, I think very beloved and very cherished in our circles. Oh yeah. I still think so underrated in a real way. Like they're so good. fuck They haven't like fully, fully blown up yet. I'm kind of, to be real and to be selfish, like I'm dreading the day because there's kind of nothing worse than your favorite band or artist, like really blowing up. Yeah, it can hurt sometimes. Yeah, yeah. it can
00:21:59
Speaker
It's pretty terrible. Yeah. and I also like I want this for them so bad. Like they, well, let's, let's like set the scene as to why they're so important. I mean, I feel like I first, I mean, I definitely first became aware of them because of Silk Chiffon, which again. Silk Chiffon was my introduction to them. Like talk about such an important song. Like it's so good. Oh my God. Like it actually, like still, like I don't listen to it, but Loki still to this day doesn't get old. I don't think I actually got sick of it.
00:22:29
Speaker
I should. Yeah. I got to get that one back on my, like, it's such a good, like spring playlist song. I've got to get that back on the list. So, so good. um and Phoebe Bridges is there.
00:22:39
Speaker
And Phoebe Bridges is back, which is also part of the whole thing. She's back. Thank Phoebe Bridges is back. I'm scared for my life. Yeah. want to like I was like let's not let's do Muna before we get into Phoebe I guess I don't have to say so I'm just gonna say it now thank God because I've been getting scared about like she's been on my shit list for a while and you know this like I've been mad at her she and I have been in a fight right because it's been so long and her Christmas songs are my favorite thing in the world and she hasn't come out with one in years and so she has been like literally everyone I speak to about anything it somehow comes up that Phoebe Bridgers is on my shit list and she's Maybe making her way off of it, which is so exciting. Yeah. yeah wait
00:23:22
Speaker
Rapid Fire, what's your favorite Phoebe song? Oh, my God. um Well, I think Garden Song is my like top two song of all time. So maybe that. I don't super have a choice. Yeah, it's immediately Garden Song. i But Graceland 2 is also so lovely. It has such a special place in my heart. and yeah That whole album obviously She's sick and twisted for that album Spotify just came out with their 20 year birthday top songs of all time situation and I think probably like three quarters of um the Punisher album was all that But yes, sorry I realize we like went on a diversion Back to Muna Focusing on Muna a little bit more just lu Because focus upon Phoebe Bridgers
00:24:09
Speaker
we like ran that song to the ground senior year into the ground into the ground like more than whatever you're butchering yeah like like like god It was on always.
00:24:22
Speaker
Like, oh my god, it's so good. It's so good. it is so good. oh And then we went to Govball. earth And they were performing also during the day. Like, one of the first, like, like at noon or something that, right? want to say, we went to see them in Govball maybe one week after hearing the song for the first time. We had just discovered this song. Yes, exactly. It was a very quick turnaround.
00:24:47
Speaker
Yes. we were like, oh. Yeah, because there were like some people that knew who like were way more familiar, but we were like, oh, sick. Like, like cool. The Suik-Shifan people are there. Yeah. that And that is like a moment paused in time. Literally. the first time I was like, what? What is happening?
00:25:07
Speaker
like Yeah. Oh my god. one of the friends that we were with burst into tears. Like, real tears. But that was when Phoebe came out. Because Phoebe did the surprise little walkout. That's what I'm saying. and That was also the first time I saw Phoebe and I also cried.
00:25:21
Speaker
Because if the timeline's correct, like Punisher... Punisher came out in 2020. Okay. Which is dastardly. That is actually, wait, what? Phoebe held it down for all of us in 2020. Oh, and i was going to say, my favorite Phoebe song is also a garden song, by the way.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, that's good. That makes sense. Because it's the best song ever. It's so good. um And also will make me cry. um Yeah. But she's such like a... It's my girl. Yes. Yeah.
00:25:50
Speaker
when phoebe came out i was like oh my god yeah it was shocking like a shock to like exactly like involuntarily was like wait this small blonde woman means a lot to me just kind like does something to you yeah experiencing something like that maybe yeah getting out but you're not expecting it so yeah exactly exactly and so love luna And then just like 2022, love that album.
00:26:18
Speaker
It's full of, once again, bangers. And then we saw that one at Terminal 5. Oh my god. And that was an awesome night. I think the best concert I've ever been to. It was the fun concert. Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
Like I was shook F. It was... it was indescribable how much fun that concert was. Yeah, I can like barely even describe it. can only feel it in my body. I know, literally. like It was just like the joy that was in that building that night from everyone. was so good. It was so fun. We saw matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, oh my god, they were there. They were like right up above us. That was such a good concert.
00:26:54
Speaker
it was so fun like immediately afterwards i was like that was like the best so good in my life so yeah they're just great performers and i listened to their podcast for a while but it was in existence chaotic and oh my gosh we've met them got evening I forgot. we've not like yeah yeah Well, yes, I keep on forgetting that that is like also. You much You have much Moonalore. We fully met the band Muna at Stonewall on the first day of Pride. The first of Pride 2022.
00:27:26
Speaker
Yeah. Three. it was so we were sitting at the bar kind of facing me. I was kind of facing the door. And I was I remember like, kind of looking to the side of you seeing someone looking back to you and then going. really Literally. Grabbing you and just being like, joe yeah, yeah. It was a very fortunate situation for us to be in this. When Luna was there. They were like, yeah, they were doing something. There was nothing confirmed. We had gotten hints of potential Luna sightings. We had the inside track, at night so to say. um And so we found ourselves at Stonewall and then they appeared and they were going kind of like upstairs and back. I wonder, hey, Muna, you remember this? Because we still have our like iconic picture with you guys. um But also I was remembering the other day when I was driving around this for Muna, when I went to the bathroom. I was sitting there and I was like, whatever, you're using the bathroom as one does. And hey, very hygienically, not touching my phone. But in not touching my phone, I did not see the multiple texts from my friends being like, Katie Muna, Katie Muna is behind you in line. Katie Muna is in line for the bathroom.
00:28:38
Speaker
And so then I did not see that literally at all. And I like swing open the door and I was like... Katie Muna. And I was like, oh, sorry. you this And she was like, oh, no, it's fine. And I was like, Katie Muna.
00:28:51
Speaker
So that was silly. That was really silly. and it was really fun. Meeting Muna was so fun. But yes, they're awesome. And I love them. And yeah this album is really good. But I also wanted to shout out randomly. I really think that their song Loose Garment off of Self-Titled is such a good song. I just always think about that like phrasing, whatever, if I must recite it.
00:29:18
Speaker
Used to wear my sadness around my neck. Had Me By The Throat. Now I'm like draped in it like a loose garment. I just let it flow. Like, what are you talking about? yeah you What are you doing? I'm gonna kill you. It's just so beautiful. Whatever. Listen to the song. It's just, I love that. And yeah, I really recommend this new album. I think they are once again having a great time. they get a little political with it. And I think it's a great song. The song Big Stick.
00:29:44
Speaker
I think my favorite song is On Call. i think it's really fun and it's good, but literally all of it's good. and then the last thing I'll say, it's their song, one of their singles, East Side Girls.
00:29:55
Speaker
I was like, did they do it on purpose to write a Billy Joel song? They are doing Billy Joel on this song. I was like, there is the like more like one-to-one thing with like Uptown Girl versus like East Side Girl. And I very purposely did not look this up because I was like, I don't know if they've talked about this. So there's that, but that's not even what like clued me off to it in the first place. The bridge is them doing like, they didn't start the fire. Like the way that they deliver the bridge, like you listen to it. You'll know what I mean. Like mark it was like immediately I was like,
00:30:28
Speaker
wait i was like they're doing billy joel oh this is this doesn't start like or we didn't start the fire whatever like all the choruses of we didn't start the fire you know he's like listing things i was like it sounds exactly like the bridge and then in general like east side girl like how they are kind of doing that i was like you're basically saying like uptown girl it's like there's such similar like anyways and that cracked me up that humored me because i was like oh my god they're doing a billy joel yeah i think that's like all i have to say about luna but i love them obviously I want to meet them again. i love all their, this is parentsro so parasocial to say, but I love all their friends. Oh my God. I love all the people they're friends with too. Because it's making me jealous actually. I know. you
00:31:11
Speaker
I'm like, they like hang out Hannah Einbender and Chris Fleming and Kayla Heron and PR Fightmaster. And I'm like. it's One of my clients. There we go. the arct master oh Oh, buddy. Talk about, again, this is why we're going to have to, this is like Easter egg. We're going to have to about pride miracles. Muna was a pride miracle. And we'll do the big one at another time.
00:31:31
Speaker
was also right whole and we will do the big one at another time in private yeah You guys just, you wait. on you You
Complexities of Parasocial Dynamics
00:31:39
Speaker
get excited. But yes, sorry. That's, that's, I i had, i had a couple things on my mind regarding Muna, but really that I love the greatest band in the world. They're so good. Shake your dreads. I love them.
00:31:51
Speaker
Ellen, what are your media fixations? but Okay. I feel like my first one, everybody everybody's going to get mad at me. my media fixation for this week was non-media. I,
00:32:04
Speaker
Girl. Hey, you know what? You learn the rules so then you can break the rules. Exactly. And we set the damn rules. But no, I took myself on a very like loose, but on ah a media diet this week, maybe two weeks. I had to not delete because I had to be posting on fixated.pod, follow us everywhere. and we're go like But I had to really like block myself from being on Instagram and TikTok because i was and Twitter.
00:32:34
Speaker
Everybody was making me so mad. I had to get offline. before I turned crazy. go and outside, read a book that was like, not about media, not my book about movies. I just Yeah, I needed to be staring at the sun for a minute because everyone, I don't know, we kind had this conversation last week post MacGala.
00:32:54
Speaker
I don't know how to get into this. Like i have been kind of watching parasociality in it weird and removed kind of way, or I guess not weird on my end, but in a removed way of like watching some of y'all do that. i don't know who I'm talking to, but like, you know, if you think it's you, it is, you know, like it's easy to fall into that. But now I'm kind of experiencing a weird level of parasociality where I'm,
00:33:23
Speaker
I just feel protective of my like clients, my favorite like people to be watching where i'm like, why do you care? Leave him alone. like I'm feeling very like I'm on his team. like I want everyone to stop talking about these people. hey Yeah. i Like, I very specifically... Like, dress for the job you want. Exactly.
00:33:42
Speaker
was like, maybe this is your calling. It might be. very specifically, like, came across a video on Dumois. I just immediately it was like, that makes me uncomfortable watch. It's none of my business. I don't want to see that. I don't like that any of you guys have been seeing it. I have to get offline right now.
00:33:57
Speaker
I just... How about everybody does the be normal challenge? Like I, am man I've been saying that everyone misunderstood me. Everyone misheard me and everyone's been doing the acting like a freelance challenge instead. And they for some reason heard the opposite. yeah Let me restate it clearly. i did say be normal.
00:34:16
Speaker
Let's be normal. Cause I don't want to be acting like I'm a security guard. Like I don't, care in that way and not like yeah yeah I mean this is like huge right like huge huge thing that we continue to to like between ourselves we always have conversations about this because yeah I like completely agree obviously i would have no grounds for disagreement but yeah i'm always like man i'm so happy that i'm not a bozo like of course i am but like in a different way because i'm a fun and harmless way yeah i was like i find it just so genuinely uninteresting and like childish and there's always maybe some like actual reality that like you don't know how old people are online slash young people are online so sometimes in fact you might genuinely be talking about exactly 13 or 14 year old yeah
00:35:09
Speaker
acting like a 13 or 14 year old. You could be beefing with a child. Exactly. So are you going to do about that? don't want to be mad at people online. I don't care. I had to remind myself that none of this affects me and it doesn't matter all. And also, even the people that I'm feeling protective they're fine. They don't care.
00:35:26
Speaker
like there are ways around these videos like popping up online I'm sure they don't love it but like they're okay like they're fine yeah they don't need to be and I think that's so real because ah I don't know I think I just like in general find it genuinely fascinating or like all these different kind of like feelings and like positioning that one feels just because of how the internet works. I guess I'm just saying that there's, I feel like it's very valid to like talk about and like be like really kind of grappling with.
00:35:57
Speaker
different types of like parasociality because i think it's just one of these things. Like I don't sneer at it. I'm not condescending about it at all. Not anymore. I don't know if i ever really was, but like I definitely am am, not the type of person to be like, oh, these people are just crazy and parasocial. I'm like, well, no, like this is like an actual like social dynamic that we actually have going on right now that people are going to experience in many different shades. And it's more useful just to like name it. And then we like actually talk about,
00:36:25
Speaker
what that means in different ways and for different people much more interesting in my opinion so i've been thinking a lot about parasociality and my own and i completely agree where it's like sometimes truly though like you do have to figure out when it's time to be like yeah log off because like i i'm also human just like you and you're pulling me in Exactly. don't want to pulled into it.
00:36:47
Speaker
Because I'm easy to get. like I influenceable. Yeah, right? Because everyone is, right? It's true. Not above it, so then I have to think about it. A lot. exactly I know my boundaries. I've seen a lot of like hunting for certain like photos and information and this and that online. Let's just leave everybody alone. like Because who cares? Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
Kind of like, I get that you care, but like, kind of let's not like, if this was anyone else, why would you need that information? Why would you get that information? Like, who cares? Yeah. What this person was doing with every single hour of their day. Like, I really struggle to like, relate to that anymore. Again, i know we've like talked about this in like different ways, but that's also so like,
00:37:33
Speaker
It's like a lot of what I was thinking about and reading about with that one, like One Direction book and how like all of these digital behaviors, let's say digital fandom behaviors, kind of like ramped up in that context specifically and you know history repeats itself it just is getting even more like severe depending on all the different importance stuff like sorry i'll say it too like i don't like demois i've never i'm not fan of whatever that's sorry demois actually i'm not sorry no i'm not sorry yeah i think it's completely whack like we don't need to be doing that to people it's actually completely ridiculous exactly I fully think people should not follow or entertain these things and I completely relate to being like at least I'm glad that I seemingly have the awareness not to pat myself on the back but of being like oh I don't need to see that even when you something slips through you're like that's not appropriate it's not my business why are you guys doing this to these people Even about the things that aren't necessarily like the most private just like, why do we need to know every detail?
Celebrities and Societal Expectations
00:38:39
Speaker
Sometimes it's okay. Like, go off into the ether and do their thing and act crazy. And I said, however they want it.
00:38:46
Speaker
I think this is like really generalized, but I do think there is that strain. Some people have the argument where it's like, we're like really, it boils down to actually believing that like celebrities like owe you all that. Or like they are like, i don't know. It is true. Obviously part of the like social contract is that they do give a public persona. They do give themselves to like publicity, literally. exactly But I think everyone can like lock in a little bit though. And I understand that does not mean that like,
00:39:15
Speaker
yeah one is entitled or they they are obligated to actually give everything. like It doesn't make any sense. It just doesn't make any sense. Everything, every part of your life. Of course things like Dumas are wrong because they are still a person. like You can't just like like completely... How do you let these people go out to dinner without blowing up their spot? Even just the genius things. like I don't know. It makes you feel like you're on their security team. Exactly. yeah Or you're like the one trying to police other people. it's Either but i'm a stalker or I am like your security team. like And I'm not a stalker, I'm a caker. And you're like, and actually, I guess I'm a fan for you. Exactly. I'd so prefer to be neither. But I think what happens in the middle. Exactly. but like if i'm gonna go with the like the common sense of it though you're like okay well then yeah i am gonna be the one to be like hey maybe we should it's like hate that you guys are making me say this but maybe we should treat celebrities like normal people i thought that was yeah or like human beings like i thought that was part of it i thought everyone understood that i policy see hate if i have to say it um now i'm in this like annoying place where i don't want to be where i'm hoping that my favorite actors go off the grid and i don't see them for a year I don't want that. Like, I want to see them. I love seeing them. I love like public appearances and things like that. I love catching up on whatever. Like, yeah. Right. It's fun. Like I'm hoping for their sakes, some of these unnamed celebrities who everyone knows who we're talking about will like disappear for yeah at least a while.
00:40:42
Speaker
Also, I think that the like unspoken thing is that it also affects historically, especially has way more been like the burden on women hundred percent And just like, and so I think a lot about like how, how just completely bizarre people are towards Chapel Rhone. Exactly. i was just going to say, obvious yeah. And this whole thing where it's just like, and then if you ask guys would be crazy them to not treat you like that, then you're crazy and you're a bitch and you're this and you're that. Right. Right. There's no way.
00:41:12
Speaker
There's never way. Yeah. Yeah. I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating. Like, okay. I was having, this is might seem like contradictory to bring this up in a sense. um I was talking to a friend talking about how they, Actually, something very relevant, but I won't. i don't know. For some reason, I'm like, I won't get specific. But I'm talking to friend about how they're like listening to a podcast and the two people in the podcast, relatively famous people, had this like bit where they were like, oh, and like, don't forget, like, we are not your friends. Like, you guys do not know us. We are not your friends. Don't blah, blah, blah, blah. blah blah blah blah bla blah um that type of thing and it was funny because this friend was like and you know actually listening to it like kind of hurt my feelings and she was like it's not because it's like well yeah I guess that's the thing like it is it is parasocial and they were saying that like you know with like time distance and being gone you know like and being like the difference and not being able to talk to like besties for real all the time they're like oh when I go to like listen to this podcast
00:42:08
Speaker
I do because I literally can't talk to my friends. So it's like the next thing that I turn to. And again, I think that's just like another, like very honest and interesting thing where it really made me think about this. i was thinking about writing something about this actually. um And I still might, but about that weird, that not weird, but like the parasocial thing um really kind trying to think about it in like friendship terms.
00:42:30
Speaker
Which is something that keeps coming up this this episode. um Great. Friendship episode? Hello! But then kind of at least doing a little bit of the thought exercise, though, of being like, okay...
00:42:41
Speaker
As we're saying, like I think it's totally real and totally valid for the public personas, the famous people, to establish that boundary, right? I think it is blanketly very fair and very and very real.
00:42:54
Speaker
At the same time, even just to like be a little bit of a nose advocate, a little bit though, to poke holes maybe in exactly what I just said, it's also like There's a way in which I'm like, well, at the same time, like how the only way I can think about phrasing it is like, how do they navigate that maybe a little bit more tenderly, though?
00:43:15
Speaker
Because at the same time, they do get stuff out of the parasocial relationship as well. You're right. And I think the more interesting question is to be like, well,
00:43:29
Speaker
if we're going to use this friend word, like, how do you actually treat your friends? Because I don't think invading people's privacy and boundaries is actually how you would treat a friend. you know what I mean? Like, assuming that you can, like, keep that word as encapsulating the relationship here, it kind of would satisfy all parties to be like, well, actually, we should just think about how you would even treat a friend. And if you wouldn't treat a friend by...
00:43:51
Speaker
ah stalking them, then we don't stalk. When we're friends and we're, yeah you don't stalk me. And you respect when it's time for me to have my time.
00:44:01
Speaker
And you respect when I'm able to give. And it's more of a dialogue between those things. That's so true. don't know. Cause I kind of got where she was like, the kind of like hurt my feelings to just be like, okay we're not your friends. You don't fucking know us. I'm like, well, you also give a lot of yourself to the public. So I understand there's a limit to what we know, but especially realizing the like dynamics that and especially when like one of them's a fully an influencer, it's like, well, you do document your life, but I understand what you're saying.
00:44:30
Speaker
You don't owe us everything. You don't owe us everything, but you do maybe owe something. Yeah. Yeah, right. Like a little bit. There's like, there's something, it there's something complex there. line and it's maybe not even a definable line, but like, exactly especially probably, especially with influencers more than celebrities, but even with celebrities a little bit, like having fans is kind of the only reason you are anywhere. Like it's the people that love you that have gotten you where you are. Yeah.
00:44:57
Speaker
And so you do kind of like it is a little bit your job to give a little bit of something not of your own life, necessarily. But like, just like a public appearance every once in a while, something like that, like, which many of them do. It's part of the job like that. Right. Yeah. Not saying you need to be doing anything outside of that. But yeah.
00:45:15
Speaker
It's interesting. Yeah, there is maybe something owed from both parties. Even if the there's something owed from this side, it's just act fucking normal.
Distinguishing Fiction from Reality
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah. It's just like a normal person.
00:45:28
Speaker
Which again, like one can do their best. Exactly. Yeah. I'm happy that at least I'm like... I'm sure, but like, let's put our best foot for forward. Yeah. There's also something... vulnerable There's like a difference between wanting something, like wanting to go to an after party, wanting to be at the Oscars, wanting to be friends with these people, and like thinking that you deserve to be there though. oh Right, now this is true. And like, true not even that you deserve to be there, but that you deserve to know every single second of what happened at the party that you were invited to because who are you? And like, who am I? Like, that's not me saying anything on anyone, but yeah.
00:46:04
Speaker
No, but you're so right. Because, girl, the day that one would catch me doing that type of bullshit. And that's the other thing. It's like, I'm not. pure like that I'm trying. lead my life don't think that you should.
00:46:16
Speaker
always trying to be understanding respect for the unknown um but yes i'm called this is a call in not a call out exactly that's like mama let's research that's exactly the thing no that's why i had to step offline for a second because i saw people doing this and for a second i caught myself being looped into it like being pulled in and wanting to know what everyone was talking about and i had to be like take a step back what's going on like let's be completely like let's also like call a spade a spade which is also something that came up in this like this book how central conspiratorial thinking is to about fandom yeah
00:46:56
Speaker
And the thing about conspiratorial thinking is that it is, it brings, it pulls people in. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's only like a human thing is a very human thing to be pulled into it. And so that's what I mean. It's a calling in. I i say everyone i want to know what everybody's talking about. Like I like to be in the loop. I like to know what's going And so when everyone on Twitter is talking about like, Oh my God, can you believe this thing?
00:47:18
Speaker
You best believe I'm going to be looking into that thing. Cause I want to know what you guys are talking about. have a thirst for knowledge. Exactly. here example I'm just trying to learn. i'm out here trying to do my research. You just have to ask questions. And yeah. Said every conspiratorial interview. I'm just curious. I'm just asking questions. just asking questions. And then I kind of had one second where i just was like, what are you doing? What's going on? Yeah. What's going Not only do I actively not care about this, like, I don't want to know. actively do not want to know this information. Yeah. I don't think anyone needs to know it. And I really don't want to know it. Yeah. It's like, guess what? This is what everyone needs to learn. Also, again, tough love.
00:48:03
Speaker
If you were meant to know what was going on, you'd be there. You'd be there. They would have told you. They would have called you up. And that is as simple. Exactly. And that is as simple as it gets. Everyone remember that. That It's none your business. If you were supposed to be present, you would have been present in this whole big great world. Mm-hmm.
00:48:21
Speaker
And that's okay. Maybe speaking very generally, I hope everyone's fine. i hope everyone has a present that they want to be present in. me Yeah. I understand shit's hard.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yes. But, and sometimes you've got to lean into the fiction of it all, but that's where I think the line between also like the fiction and the reality is of, I think. Yeah. In my mind, leaning into the fiction side of things totally fine.
00:48:43
Speaker
Like, whatever. Go for it, girl. Like, live in your fictional reality. When it's real people, that's where the issue arises. Is there not, like, ugh, this thing, whatever. You forget that these people can also see you being a freak. ah Yeah. Are you not embarrassed? Like,
00:48:59
Speaker
Don't you think if someone was doing that to you, wouldn't it feel creepy? Like, yeah, wouldn't be like, hey. Like, what? What? no Like, let me do my thing. Let me hang out with my girls. Like, let me, don't know, get little crazy. But this is the thing. Okay, this is the thing. Like, i I have always found it funny because I had once been, like, somewhat in those shoes. I always find it funny. Of course, no one should smoke because smoking is bad for you and everyone knows that it's bad for you.
00:49:23
Speaker
Everyone knows that. Everyone knows that. You know. Everyone straights up straight up knows. Like, everyone, I'm just making sure everyone's clear. Everyone knows that. Yeah. I'm laughing because i know exactly what you're talking about. everyone else yeah But like, it just takes me back almost like in a, like in a genuinely pure way, but like people used to freak out about like one direction smoking and this at the other. And again, I remember Loki being there, not being so specifically worried about smoking, but like when I learned about like the 27 club, which is dark and sad, um,
00:49:53
Speaker
A crazy coincidence. And I was a big The 1975 fan. And like on Tumblr, people were like worried about Maddie Healy being a part of the 27 Club. um And I remember being actually like feeling it again. I wasn't like out here posting, but feeling that like actual genuine worry when I was must have been, i don't know, 15 maybe.
00:50:17
Speaker
And so this is what I'm like, these are things that, like, of course, we've, like, been there for. At least I have. Like, I know when i know like what that feeling is. experienced it. We've been there. Like, we were in those trenches. We were on Tumblr. like Yeah. So let me, like, thank you woman to woman, girl to girl. Literally.
00:50:34
Speaker
stop worrying about it. it's and yeah and don't And just don't post the tweet where you're like, no, you shouldn't smoke. I'm like, they know. They know. They know when they're going to do knows his background. He also knows it's like really hot. so And like, again, i'm like not to be so nihilistic about it in a way, but it's like without being condescending, it's just that like thing we have to realize where it's like, oh no, there's like adults in the world who still do things that aren't necessarily good for you.
00:51:02
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. And then you move on. Like, I don't, you know what i mean? i feel like it almost works at that level too, where it's like, no, one day you will step outside and go into a bar. Yeah. And you'll see people drinking too much and you'll see people smoking.
00:51:16
Speaker
And being messy.
Reflections and Farewell
00:51:17
Speaker
thats And being messy. And that's, that's where life also happens. Yeah. It's also just where life happens and how life happens.
00:51:27
Speaker
And it's not something to, fear yeah Just don't do it for yourself if you don't want to. It's so funny. I just get so cracked up. Like, cause yeah, i was there when people were thinking about Zane and Zane. Yeah. They were like, they're smoking.
00:51:40
Speaker
okay. I loved, I loved having that conversation. yeah yeah it's My non-media, media fixation, but, or my media, non-media fixation. Yeah. I mean,
00:51:51
Speaker
Love that. Okay, great. feel like this was a quick one. Yeah, it kind of did feel quick, but we'll see. We keep on getting the, um for anyone who's noticing week by week, we keep on getting the times down a little bit, which is really only yeah relevant for us. I don't know. don't know. Hopefully it improves your listening experience. I hope Let us know what you want to see from us. If you want longer episodes, don't say shorter because we have no listeners. can't do that that would be a struggle we would really struggle with that one so please don't say you can ask for the same or more yes those are your choices Anyways, personally, you guys are all my dear friends. Yeah, exactly. close friends. Thus treat me like a friend, though. like Don't be like a weird girl. Yeah, exactly. Treat me like a friend. Don't be yeah plotting out my location in the city where I was at each minute of my whatever. like Yeah, this is what I'm saying. like in your fave If your fave wanted to share their location with you, guess what they would do? They'd open up, find my iPhone, and they'd share that location with you.
00:52:55
Speaker
If they don't, then you don't need to worry about it. And that's all it is. But, yeah, fun episode. the end of the day, it's all peace and love, y'all. Exactly. it like We love y'all. byall thats normal Exactly. But you know it's time it's it yeah it's it's and we've been there we've been in your shoes that's what i'm saying yeah from a place of yeah yeah if anything came across condescending which i don't know why i'm so concerned about being like you know trying to lead with love so so y'all take it easy y'all be easy out there y'all be easy out there yeah munah greatest band in the world give it a listen
00:53:34
Speaker
and I guess that's all. Bisous. Kisses. Follow fixated.com and all social platforms. Okay. See you in the next one.
00:53:46
Speaker
Bye. Bye.