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Episode 179: Organizing Personal Finances (w/ Shanna Skidmore)
1.7k Plays2 years ago
Shanna Skidmore joins me on the podcast to chat about her system for organizing personal finances and what business numbers you should be reviewing at the end of the year.
We start the conversation, however, discussing her time away from her business from mid 2019-mid 2020. The short version of the story is that after her biggest launch ever in 2019, she walked away from her business with the intention of not returning. We talk about that season, her experience being away from her business and what she learned from it. This was one of my favorite conversations of 2022, largely because of the first half of our conversation. So if you have the time, I highly encourage you to listen to the entire episode because there’s just so much good stuff to be found in what Shanna shares around her experience closing up shop.
But, if you are here for the financial stuff, I’ll put a timestamp in the episode description so you know where to jump. Shanna’s content is top-notch, I took a full page of notes just based the financial portion of our conversation, and Krista and I are planning on completing the activity she shares during our year-end review.
As always, links and resources are in the show notes, including Shanna’s Year-End Review activity. Check it out at daveyandkrista.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review at Apple Podcasts. It really helps.
0:00 Intro and catching up
34:46 Personal finance or business finance is one of the least talked about subjects
36:44 Start creating your budget by finding your bare bone minimum expenses
40:58 Then you can add in the lifestyle expenses
43:13 What tips do you have for living in the want?
46:20 Determine your values first
48:10 What approach do you take to year end review from a business standpoint?
49:40 Compare revenue and expenses year to year
51:31 Pro tip: Talk to your CPA in November for tax prep
54:41 Evaluate and ask yourself if your work brings joy
Disclaimer: I am not a financial expert and the information shared during this episode is for informational purposes only and not for purposes of providing accounting or financial advice. You should contact a financial expert or accountant to obtain advice with respect to any particular financial issue or problem.
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Transcript
Shanna's Financial Passion
00:00:05
Speaker
And I would start, you know, being Shanna. I would Shanna them and be like, tell me more about that. Like what's going on with your budget and can I help? And I found myself doing my job, my previous job for free because I, the passion is still there to help people with their money. Like I saw these people who are extremely high income and are struggling. I was like, Hey, let's just tweak this and tweak that and have more control over your finance. I was doing it for free.
Introduction to Shanna Skidmore
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:44
Speaker
Shanna Skidmore joins me on the podcast to chat about her system for organizing personal finances and what business numbers you should be reviewing as the year wraps up. We start the conversation, however, discussing her time away from her business from mid-2019 to mid-2020. The short version of that story is that after her biggest launch ever in 2019, she walked away from her business with the intention of not returning.
Insights from a Business Break
00:01:09
Speaker
We talked about that season, her experience being away from her business and what she learned from it. This was hands down one of my favorite conversations of 2022, largely because of the first half of our conversation. So if you have the time, I highly encourage you to listen to the entire episode because there's just so much good stuff to be found in what Shanna shares around her experience closing up shop.
00:01:31
Speaker
But if you are here for the financial stuff, that's okay too. I'll put a timestamp in the episode description so you know exactly where to jump. Shana's content, it's top notch. I took a full page of notes just based on the financial portion of our conversation. Chris and I are planning on completing the activity that she goes over in the episode during our year-end review, which is coming up.
00:01:50
Speaker
As always, links and resources are in the show notes, including Chana's year-end review activity. Check it out at DavianChrissa.com.
Life Changes and Stress
00:01:58
Speaker
And if you've enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review at Apple Podcasts as it really helps. Now, onto the episode. We're very excited to be here in Lexington now, but I think moving, and you've moved at least twice in the last, what, three years?
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, we move like every two years. It's good. It sounds awesome. That's a nightmare to me. It really is. Yes. One of the most stressful things for sure. And something I think like, I didn't even realize how stressful it was until I was out of the stress. I compare it to when Jack was born. And like when you're in the thick of it at the beginning, like it's hard, but I guess you don't really realize how hard it is until you get that first full night's sleep. And then you look back and you're like, oh my gosh, I was so tired.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like you may just kind of get through. Somebody told me a couple of months ago and I was like, this was mind changing, like so helpful. They were like, it takes about 18 months to readjust after a big life change. And so I was like, okay, that just helped me breathe easier. You know, I have loved being a mom, but it's like a whole new reset. And then,
00:03:12
Speaker
moving halfway across the country in the midst of that, that's another little thing. So yeah, it's like, all right, no wonder I'm just like, I need to just be settled for a little while. Yeah, I totally believe it's 18 months too. I was very burned out in 2021. And just kind of coming to terms with that here in 2022.
00:03:31
Speaker
And it's again, one of those things where like when I'm in it, you know, I'm not sure how much I actually recognize it.
Family Transitions
00:03:39
Speaker
But yeah, I mean like the move in 2020, 2020 itself, then 2021 just, it was rough. But I feel like I'm back to a point where I'm really excited about work. I'm really excited about things going on. And so that's felt really good. Did you have your second baby in 21?
00:03:57
Speaker
Yes, he was born, you know, and another thing, just kind of throwing the mix there. He was born just a little over a year ago. And yeah, so, and Bennett, that adjustment, I would say, on the grand scheme of things, actually a lot easier. I feel like going from one to two was significantly easier for us than going from zero to one. Zero to one was like just life uprooted, everything changed, you know? People said that about marriage, right? Like, oh, when you get married, everything's gonna change.
00:04:24
Speaker
I guess, obviously it was good, but I don't feel like it was, when Jack was born, everything changed.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, we were the exact same. So with marriage, it was like, didn't skip a B just, and we're so grateful for that. Yeah. We just, you know, we've had a semi relatively quote unquote easy marriage, but we were married 11 years before we had Madeline. And so for both Kyle and I, and I don't want to speak for him, but I think he would say the same going from zero to one was like,
00:04:54
Speaker
Wait, what? Where's Shanna in this? Where's Kyle? Just like re-finding who you are in this new role and loving it. I have loved being a mom. This sounds so crazy, I think. But to say, I just love it more than I ever imagined I would. I didn't imagine I would dislike it by any means, but I just love being a mom.
00:05:17
Speaker
and for somebody who's been career focused for 15 years, you know, it's just a whole total reset and recalibration. So, yeah.
Challenges of Parenting
00:05:26
Speaker
And that's, I have this theory that because Chris and I were married for 10 years before having Jack, I think that it's sort of harder because, you know, you've kind of built this life together and you're in your own routines. We talked about this a little bit on your podcast. I got to join you on that earlier this week, but how we were under this impression that
00:05:44
Speaker
Oh, well, we're disciplined people. Jack was just gonna kind of fit into our lives, you know, but it wasn't gonna change that much. How silly, how silly we were. For me, I think that the most shocking thing has been like the constant running, like a ticker tape, just constantly running about like, is Madeline fed? How much has she slept? Do I have groceries and the, you know, cause as adults, you're just like, oh, I don't have food. Just go get something, you know, you figure it out, but you can't do that for like a tiny little human.
00:06:14
Speaker
And so just this like, that's been the thing I think that's been the biggest unexpected is there is a constant or even now I mean, she's 19 until I'm like, okay, what about preschools? What about elementary schools? Well, I don't want to like uproot her and move. Like I want her to be just all these thoughts that
00:06:31
Speaker
it's like a constant kind of there. And that's the number one thought, you know? So that's been, how do we have life in the midst of this, like, kind of constant? So that's what I've been readjusting to.
Business Journey and Hiatus
00:06:45
Speaker
And now that she's getting older, I'm kind of like, Okay, I'm seeing my own other thoughts coming back. So it's been nice. But that was the bigger shocker to my system, for sure.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, we've had a couple team members over at Till Agency go out on maternity leave and they were having their first child and talking to them, just kind of getting a sense for what kind of time they wanted to take. Anytime they were like, oh yeah, I'm planning on coming back pretty soon afterwards. I'm like, you know, I'm not going to hold you to that. Take as much time as you want.
00:07:15
Speaker
Because I know for Krista, it was like, you know, it sounds like similar for you where you just, well, I, you know, I like working and I don't see that changing all that much, but all of a sudden it's like, okay, work is not near as important as it was prior to, prior to Jack. Or maybe that it's not like less important, but Jack is that much more important, you know?
00:07:35
Speaker
Right. Sure. And I think for me, taking 2020 off, just reset all my thoughts about work in general. And I just think that was the perfect setup, even though we didn't plan it that way, but it was the perfect setup to having Madeline. Because when we decided to relaunch the company and come back, it's like I already had a totally different mindset about work. And so it can all
00:08:02
Speaker
be so much more in harmony. And I'm just so grateful for that. Yeah, and I want to talk to you about 2020, taking the year off. The last time that we had chatted really before connecting again was right before you were taking off. Till Agency was helping you with your quote unquote final blueprint launch. You had every intention of that being it, right? And it was, you know, this is 2019, completely unrelated to the pandemic.
00:08:29
Speaker
So tell us a little bit about why you stepped away, what that season looked like. Obviously there's some good I think that came out of that season just in having talked to you. I mean, one of those things is Kyle's working with you full time now. And I know he's like, it was building rocket ships, something crazy like that, you know, so way overqualified probably for the job. One of my partners at Till Agency, also an engineer, and I feel like they just bring such a crazy fascinating perspective to business. So anyways, talk us through that season.
00:08:57
Speaker
Okay, I will. I remember Davey. I don't remember if you remember, but I remember. You said, Shanna, do you think that you are just burned out and you should just take a year off? I remember that specifically. I don't know if you do. I do. We were on the phone, right? Yeah, I think so. I don't know. But I remember that and I knew I needed the option to never come back.
00:09:17
Speaker
I needed that so how it came to be i started my company officially in twenty thirteen unofficially in twenty twelve as just a way to college in school he was getting a second degree in aerospace engineering and. Honestly i started my company because i was like i just need to get copper school i mean that was i think people are shocked to know that i never thought of myself as being the ceo of the company like.
00:09:43
Speaker
I love being the CFO. I love being the second. I love being behind a computer and crunching numbers. And I'm a very friendly person, but I am quite introverted. And so I was just like, if I could help some people get us, you know, buying groceries while causing school.
00:09:59
Speaker
And it just, maybe it just really took off. Like God truly just blessed it. And I'm so grateful for that. And I fell in love with the work and my clients. And then in 2016, when we launched the blueprint model, it was because at that time I was charging like $25,000 to work with me. And while that, for me, I still have that money mindset of like, that's so much money. I didn't grow up with a lot of money, but I saw these amazing transformations. I knew the value was there, but that's a lot of pressure to be like, okay,
00:10:27
Speaker
Pay me twenty five thousand dollars and I feel like I'm expected to change your life and so I launched the blueprint monitors this is wonderful cuz I was like how can I duplicate Shana how can I make more Shana's and make this process accessible to more people and so I launched it was amazing that's kind of before online courses came to be I mean I knew of Marie for Leo.
00:10:50
Speaker
And I had never taken an online course. I took one online course called Create Awesome Online Courses. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's not even available anymore for anyone who wants to Google it, but that's that one course I took. And I always joke and say, I'm like his worst student because I never said thank you. I never was like, but his course like changed the trajectory of our business. So the blueprint model just took off. I mean, we were selling hundred, our first launch was over a six figure launch.
00:11:16
Speaker
And it just rapidly grew. And so I just didn't know how to keep up. And then Kyle graduated, and he was working as an aerospace engineer. But at night and weekends, he was doing all of our production and all the other things. I mean, he was, he was my sounding board. You know, I needed his brain. I needed him.
00:11:37
Speaker
So he was my partner without ever getting paid to be so and or getting the credit. And so it just grew and grew and grew. And so in 2018, I was like, I guess we're just going all in on this, you know,
Rediscovering Passion in Finance
00:11:47
Speaker
and I hired five or six full time staff members. And I was just I got to a place where I just was miserable. And anyone who knows me and knows my teaching is that I truly believe we can build a business
00:12:03
Speaker
for the life that we want. Like, I believe that wholeheartedly. And I felt like I was so far down a path, I didn't know how to turn around and get back. And get back to, I'm just not sure I am the one who's cut out to build this quote unquote, empire. And I was, I had thousands of students
00:12:24
Speaker
16 members plus a ton of contractors. It was so big. And I was just like, I just want to take my dog for a walk. And I just didn't know how to reverse back. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. Yes, I was just the problem for me and why I say 2020 was a huge blessing. The problem for me is I was trying to treat every single student like they were a client.
00:12:47
Speaker
I launched a digital product but i still treated it like a service so i was so invested in every single person's growth and that's the mindset unfortunately that had to shift i had to call this all the time he says the course is the product the course is the product and i just want everyone to get out of it and that's
00:13:08
Speaker
Honestly, taking that course, create awesome online courses, like circling back, has really helped me change my mindset because I'm like, I never spoke to him. I never emailed him. I never said thank you. He doesn't even know if I ever took the course. There could be hundreds of students out there. I don't know their name. I don't know anything about their family. And my course could change their life.
00:13:29
Speaker
So anyways, in 2019, Kyle had been working as a airspace engineer, as a contract engineer. So he was at home a couple days a week, and then he was in the office the rest of the time. And so that flexibility allowed him to really help me.
00:13:44
Speaker
But at the end of 2018, he got hired full time at a company in Duluth, Minnesota. So we were in Tennessee at the time and he was like, this is the dream company. I want to work with them. And I was like, well, and I want to be like, I can't move my business to Minnesota. I have six employees. Like, so we just had this hard conversation. So we moved, we ended up moving to Minnesota. He took that job and it just became very clear, very quickly. I can't do this business without Kyle. I need him.
00:14:14
Speaker
And I just, so we made the hard decision in quarter one of 2019 to close the business down. I talked to all my staff and yeah, it was just like, I need to be done. I need to have the ability to be fully done. And I told everybody it was so hard. All my students were so supportive, but really sad. I was really sad and we set everything up to do our final launches in the end of 2019 and I left and I was out.
00:14:42
Speaker
I really say I took off basically the middle of 2019 to the middle of 2020 because even though we had a launch the end of 2019, it was all done. I stopped working and it was a wonderful day. It was the best. I took art classes. I was working out every day. I was in Minnesota, so I was figuring out how to walk in snow and then the pandemic hit.
00:15:07
Speaker
I found myself, I kind of shared this with you earlier this week, but most of my neighbors were doctors, like very high income earners. And I saw them taking forbearance on their homes and they were canceling their cable. And I was just like, what?
00:15:23
Speaker
I mean, everybody needs their income, but what? And I would start, you know, being Shanna. I would Shanna them and be like, tell me more about that. Like, what's going on with your budget? And can I help? And I found myself doing my job, my previous job for free.
00:15:39
Speaker
because I, the passion is still there to help people with their money. Like I saw these people who are extremely high income earners struggling. I was like, Hey, let's just tweak this and tweak that and have more control over your finance. I was doing it for free. So sorry, this is a long story. You still keep going.
00:16:00
Speaker
And so I just, that passion just started really bubbling back up. And I was offering like my students, I was like, hey, like, let me help you with this or that. And I just realized I would do this for free. Like this is still, I mean, honestly, I was pursuing, I was like, maybe I could go, I'm a fitness instructor. I'll go back to school and be an interior designer. I mean, I, doors open, like I'll take, what is my next step? I mean, I truly was out and,
00:16:25
Speaker
The pandemic was this amazing blessing for me of this mindset shift of like, I loved my job. I love my work. I need to go back in differently. So at the same time, Kyle was home because he was working from home with his job. And I think I never wanted Kyle to work for Shanna's company. That just would not work for us. That just would not work.
00:16:51
Speaker
And one day he came out. So while I was getting the stirring of like, I'm just really passionate about this. I'm really good at it. This is my God-given gift. What could that look like? I didn't say anything to Kyle. Kyle came to me and he said, what if the business that we were supposed to have was the business you had all along? Like what would you think about doing it together?
00:17:14
Speaker
And it was this really cool, he had to get there. I mean, when you have a career and you go to school and you graduated with honors from one of the top engineering schools in the country, to walk away from that, there's, I don't want to say there's pride in that, but he's walking away from his profession. And it's like a big deal profession.
00:17:35
Speaker
It's a big deal. I mean, he's a big deal. Yeah. He's making sure we don't fall out of the air when we're flying. It's a big deal. And he, if you know Kyle, when you meet him, you need to meet him if you haven't. He has loved aviation since a child. Like that's been his passion. He's a pilot. Like he loves it. So for him to come and say that, I think we just realized that we have entrepreneurship gives you this amazing opportunity to build an incredible life.
00:17:59
Speaker
And at the time I was pregnant with Madeline and it was just this moment of, hey, let's do this together and redo it, right? And so we came back officially together in 2021. We took it really slow because we were moving from Minnesota back to Tennessee. And I'm just so grateful for that time off because in some ways I'm like, this is my job. This is my work. And I like my job. But it gave me this new perspective. It's not my everything.
00:18:29
Speaker
And I had really good boundaries before, but now I can just see it as like, I want to show up and I want to do really good work. But that's all I'm obligated to do. I'm such a like fixer and I get so invested in people's lives. I had to understand how to love people well without being everyone's best friend. So it's just this been really fun to be back in a much healthier way.
Identity and Rest
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, there are so many, I think, little lessons that hopefully people, I mean, I'm sure this will resonate with people in different situations. You know, I'm just thinking about how important rest is in general and like why, I mean, to a certain extent, that's why sabbaticals and retreats work, right? It's because it allows you to step away.
00:19:14
Speaker
I remember like even coaching lacrosse after school, I was a teacher at the time, but stepping away from that was hard because you just think like, what would my life look like without doing this? This is what people kind of know me as doing, right? But when you end up stepping away, you realize exactly where it's ordered in your life or where it ought to be ordered in your life, you know? And it really gives you that perspective.
00:19:34
Speaker
And I can't, you know, I even think about right now, I have lots of good things in my life, but it's, you know, I think you constantly have to be in this like period of discernment because it's okay to walk away from good things, you know? So I don't know, I think the whole story is fascinating. I think there's so many interesting lessons in it. I am for one, glad to see you return.
00:19:55
Speaker
For sure. Me too, I've loved it. I love being back and the things that bothered me before, I mean, there's so many things that it was like a compounding adding up of things. I mean, you get it, like you get into business dreamy, sorry eyed, it's wonderful. And it is, entrepreneurship is amazing, but there are gonna be some hard knocks. There are gonna be things that happen that you don't expect. And I was really sensitive to that,
00:20:21
Speaker
And so I've learned now, I don't want to have tough skin and thicker skin, but at the same time, I'm learning still how to let things roll off. Things just don't impact me or bother me the same way because my identity isn't here anymore. And I am embarrassed to say, but I think it was. I think in so many ways.
00:20:40
Speaker
I loved my craft hunt, but it was what I did. It was who I am in so many ways. And now there's just this really healthy separation that I think makes me even better at my job. There's an amazing TED Talk and I'm going to find it and
00:20:56
Speaker
send it to you, Davey, so you can link it. But it's about the, it's called the power of time off. And this person takes a sabbatical every seventh year in his business. He takes the entire year off. And I heard this the first year in my business back in 2013. I heard this TED talk and I was like, that's amazing. And I immediately implemented a sabbatical and I've taken sabbaticals in my business since then. And I love it. I love sabbatical.
Perspective and Balance
00:21:23
Speaker
But ironically, 2020 was my seventh year in business. And I took I was like, I want to take every seventh year off. So from now on, I won't say I'm quitting, but I want to take a full year off because I'm telling you that perspective and just that time. And it was amazing. It was the best thing. And I know now if I just said, oh, I'm taking sabbatical in 2020,
00:21:49
Speaker
I don't know if I would have come back, but because of the fact that I was just like I'm done and I opened up my mind to everything else, I realized, no, I like what I do and I want to do it. And that was just a really freeing moment.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that just that space is so important. And I mean, even as I think back over the last year or so, you know, in that season of burnout and kind of looking like how reflective was I in that season, probably not enough. You know, I probably didn't give myself the space to step away. And I think we start fooling ourselves that if we do step away for a weekend on a weekly basis or for a month on a yearly basis or whatever, that everything's going to crumble and everything's going to fall apart.
00:22:27
Speaker
But usually, and I find this during vacation too, that space allows my mind to regain perspective and really look at, okay,
Sabbaticals and Rebuilding
00:22:36
Speaker
what's working? What's not? What do I really not need in my life? What do I really want to be doing? And I think that that time is just so valuable. So going forward, it sounds like you're gonna continue on taking sabbaticals, kind of implementing regular rest. I do wanna ask how it's been working with Kyle.
00:22:53
Speaker
I asked because I remember early on in our business when I joined Krista full-time, first business, and she very much struggled to not treat me like an employee. You know, that was a constant tension, right? Okay. And let's be honest, you know, Krista is, she's the genius of the operation, but that was a constant tension early on was, you know, baby, you know, this is how you do things and getting frustrated with whatever. And you know, obviously we've grown through that after a decade working together, but has there been any of that tension? Has it been a pretty seamless transition?
00:23:23
Speaker
It has not been seamless. No. And I will say to your point of the fear of going away and being forgotten. So when I quit Instagram in 2017, that was a big fear of mine and that was fine. But in 2020, I didn't have that fear because I didn't think I was coming back. But I will say coming back has gone so much slower.
00:23:44
Speaker
than I expected. So I just want everyone to know, I think sabbatical and rest is so important, but there is gonna be a rebuilding period and I wish that I had buffered that in. I mean, I didn't know. And also there was a huge industry shift that I did not know or expect in 2021 to 2022 this year. I've seen a huge shift in the industry that we're having to now understand. We were just out of it.
00:24:13
Speaker
So with Kyle, it's been so fun. So we worked together. That's how we met. So we worked together really well. The interesting thing for us is I wanted Kyle to be the CEO. I wanted him to run it. I wanted him to make the decisions. I wanted him to
00:24:28
Speaker
deal with staff. Like I wanted him to do all the things that are really challenging for me. I'm a horrible decision maker. I don't know what number I am on the Enneagram. And Kyle's like, Kyle's always like, Shana,
Working with a Partner
00:24:40
Speaker
you're not a number. You're a person. I'm like, but I need to know my number. And so I just struggle with decisions and I get really overwhelmed by them. And so I was just like, I wanted Kyle to be the CEO. And for the first year, I would say we kind of like hobbled.
00:24:54
Speaker
trying to figure out our roles, because honestly, I didn't want to step into the role that is mine to step into. And the leadership role, like, I want to be behind the scenes. That's what I do really well. I love teaching and I love my clients and I love spreadsheets. But even being the face end, so we're actually about to update the website, even to tick Kyle right now is on the homepage. It's more about Kyle and I, and we're transitioning back to more about Shanna.
00:25:22
Speaker
And in some ways, it was me feeling this, not from Kyle at all, but me feeling this need for people to know, I can't run this business without Kyle. And I never have. But Kyle's like, Shana, you are the brand. You are the reason. It's you. It's your personality. It's
00:25:42
Speaker
The fact that I am a female in a male-dominated industry, that's a big deal. 90% of our clients are female. You know, there's just all that storyline that I just, I didn't know I needed to step into and I didn't want to step into. So it's me growing in my own leadership.
00:25:57
Speaker
and taking on that role. And so just honestly, it took us about a year. But this year, I feel like we have found our groove and knowing that like, I am the visionary. I want it to look a certain way because Kyle, he's not really into the aesthetics. He's just like, has to be pretty. Listen, it has to be. If we're going to do a graph, which he knows how to do because he loves those Excel spreadsheets, I'm like, but it needs to be pretty. And so just me knowing I can run the vision and we talk through strategy together, but
00:26:26
Speaker
I really am the visionary and I will always be the face of the company. And he loves, he needs no recognition. He does not care. And it's been so good to finally be like, he does production. He does all of our podcasts, all of our education production. He does all the tech stuff because everybody knows
00:26:47
Speaker
I am terrible with all things tech. It's been so fun for us to finally feel like we're in our lane and we know, here's my role, here's your role, and he loves a good Asana task. That's how he thrives in that. We're the opposite. It sounds like I wanted him to be the CEO, but we just found that's not going to work because if he's like, I want to do this, I'm like, well, that's ugly. My opinion trumps all.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's so interesting.
Burnout and Rest
00:27:18
Speaker
I had a general sense that he probably contributes in such a significant way to the business because one of my business partners, Ryan, he also comes from an engineering background. Just one of the smartest guys I know. And really, it's crazy how you can take those other experiences. I certainly feel this way with teaching and bring them into entrepreneurship and they still serve you well. But yeah, he sounds a lot like Ryan. Ryan's one of the smartest guys I know. The business wouldn't run the same way without him, but has very little interest
00:27:46
Speaker
the face are being out there, right? To your earlier point too, and not to keep jumping back and forth about stepping away and it being sort of a slow rebuild. Just thinking about a season of burnout as well, I think the same is true. Like I wonder what that season, I think I'm still figuring out what that season of burnout cost our business, you know?
00:28:05
Speaker
So I think both can be true. I mean, for you, I think that season, it sounds like it was so important and pivotal. For me, had maybe I taken better care of myself in 2021, wouldn't have experienced the same thing. I guess it just goes back to how important rest is.
00:28:21
Speaker
I'm so interested, Davey, because you keep talking about this. What do you feel like? Where was your burnout? What did that come from? Was it in all the business? I just want to share. Yeah, for sure. I'm not positive it was any one thing. I think I talked with Ashlyn Carter about this a little bit when I interviewed her.
00:28:40
Speaker
But basically, I think 2020 was like, okay, well, let's just put our head down and we're gonna sprint through this. It was like two weeks to, we're gonna shut down for two weeks and that was gonna be it or whatever. So I think I got in sprint mode in 2020, but the pandemic just never ended. Nobody rang the bell and was like, hey, this is over. Take a deep breath. And I'm sure people who were wiser than me took a deep breath throughout that season.
00:29:06
Speaker
And I just don't think I did. I don't think I took the rest that I needed. I think those big life changes in there as well. I think I probably took on a little too much in the midst of those life changes. And so I think that all contributed to it. I think I experienced a little criticism and I think to something earlier you said, I don't always handle that super well. I think Krista too,
00:29:29
Speaker
When we started our business, she very much, we had that tension of maybe her treating me a little bit like an employee, right? But I think certainly in the last few years, she's encouraged me more to step up and try to be a little more out there. Like I don't want to be the talking head on Instagram, right? But I do a lot of the teaching. And so really stepping into that role a little bit.
00:29:48
Speaker
But I think with some proper rest and getting adjusted to a new setting, that's really helped come out of that and taking a look at the business and pruning it a little bit and figuring out, or the businesses rather, and figuring out, okay, where can I have the most impact? What are those things that I enjoy doing? And then I just go back to rest, it just being so, so pivotal.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. This is a Shana question. I'm giving it to you so you don't have to answer. But do you feel like finances played a part in that? Was there a fear? Because sometimes I feel like we have to run towards our goals and that can contribute to burnout. And so I don't know because that didn't work in 2020. Was there a fear of needing more money that pushed you?
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know because 2020 to a certain extent was a good year for us, right? You know, I mean, like not in the grand scheme of things, right? But everybody was moving their businesses online. Like if people didn't have an online shop, they wanted an online shop. So, you know, it wasn't like, oh, we were experiencing some sort of financial setback and that set me into it.
00:30:46
Speaker
You know, I think the opposite has been kind of true. I think like because of the season of Burnout, we've probably haven't grown as much this year as I would have hoped because again, like I just I wasn't functioning. I think in a super healthy way. Yeah. And yeah, does that make sense?
00:31:04
Speaker
Absolutely. I've heard from the great Brian on my talks that 2020 actually was some people's best year in business. Also, what people know is 2019 was my best year in business. I left at the height of my company and I want people to know making money doesn't solve the feelings you have inside. We were making so much money.
00:31:28
Speaker
You have to have joy and fun in your business and rest. And also, Davey, it sounds like, I mean, for me, I am very sensitive. I'm very sensitive to criticism, to things that have happened that hurt my feelings.
00:31:46
Speaker
or, and people are not nice online. They are not nice. I mean, they talk as if there's not somebody behind the screen and I get very little negative. I'm so grateful. Like I get very little negative stuff. So, but I think psychologically, I don't know somebody smarter than me knows, but it's like criticism sticks to your brain. Whereas compliments bounce.
00:32:10
Speaker
And that's why with kids, I think it's like you have to say nine compliments or something to counteract one negative. I don't know, again, somebody really smart could tell us that. I learned that way back in my psychology days, but I just think that's so helpful to identify. So for me now, coming back, I truly believe it's helpful for me to realize this is my job. And I know that takes the beauty, that could take some of the woo woo out of it.
00:32:40
Speaker
But it doesn't, for me, it's just like, I really like my job. I'm very grateful for my job. I don't wanna choose any other job. But it is just my job.
Business as a Job
00:32:51
Speaker
And that has been such a healthy, I don't know if that helps anybody else, but for me, that has been such a healthy perspective. There's gonna be good days, there's gonna be bad days, there's gonna be days you don't wanna show up. And I just have learned to put so much less pressure on my own self.
00:33:06
Speaker
That's what I am such a perfectionist and I wanted everyone to have a life changing experience working with me and just to show up and do my best work and let the results fall what they do. I mean, I could ramble on about that forever, but yeah, it's burnout is real and it comes in the most unexpected ways. And anyway, so 2020 best year, 2022 hardest year. That's what I keep hearing.
00:33:33
Speaker
Yeah, well, 2021 for me, for sure. 2022 has been hard in some ways, but in many ways I feel excited again, like back at it. And it is interesting. I wonder what the association of good things, I mean, we had a lot to look forward to in 2020, 2021. We moved, we spent a lot of time building a house. We moved close to friends. But anyways, I want to get to finances at some point.
00:34:00
Speaker
I do appreciate riffing on this. I appreciate how open you are about your story too. I think it'd be easy for someone to be like, oh yeah, I came back and it's like nothing changed. And so I really appreciate that. And I know things are gonna get back to far beyond where they were, because I know how good your content is.
00:34:16
Speaker
Speaking of, let's talk some finances. We're towards the end of the year right now. So I do wanna talk about maybe as entrepreneurs what we should be looking at in our business towards the end of the year. But before we get that, maybe talk to us through like how you coach entrepreneurs to manage their personal finances. And I feel like that's such a tough subject because people pay themselves in different ways. And you probably just walk into situations where all of them are kind of a little bit different. It's probably a little bit messy. So how do you make sense of that?
00:34:44
Speaker
I think it's an interesting personal finance and or business finance is one of the least taught about subjects, but the subject that affects us every single day. I think most entrepreneurs don't get into business to make money. That is true. But money affects how we run our business. And that's why I was asking you earlier, when we get a pressure kind of a pressure cooker situation where we need to make more money, that's often a time that I think leads into
Financial Advice
00:35:14
Speaker
burnout.
00:35:14
Speaker
because you work more hours, you push products more, you feel this pressure to make more money. So what I have seen in 2022, people coming off the pandemic where they expected it to be a really hard year and then ended up being an incredible year because everybody was moving things online. I mean, some people had their literally highest sales year in 2020.
00:35:35
Speaker
2022, I truly believe, because I'm not one for like, oh, blaming it on things. But I truly believe people are starting to feel the effects of an uncertain economy. And
00:35:50
Speaker
people are holding more tightly to their pocketbooks. And so I think that's going to be around for a little bit. There's some resetting that I am seeing with purchase and buying decisions that honestly is probably good. I think I started, I graduated college in the recession. I graduated in 2007. So I started working in finance in 2007, 2008, 2009 during that first recession. So
00:36:17
Speaker
I feel like I have seen how to do business in a time when people are very picky about what they're spending their money on. And honestly, I think it's a good thing. I am an advocate for being intentional with every dollar that you spend personally and in the business. And I think we've been in a few years, it's been really fun, where people have been less
00:36:39
Speaker
picky about where their money is
Bare Bones Budgeting
00:36:41
Speaker
going. So I think personally, just for anyone listening in your personal finances, what we're doing is finding, and I teach this to all my students, your bare bone minimum.
00:36:51
Speaker
What do you have to have to pay all of your bills? And then you add in your lifestyle expenses. So I think first it's really helpful just to know your bare bones minimum. What do you have to have to pay all of your bills, to pay minimum payments on mortgages, credit cards, knowing that bare bones is really peace of mind, I believe, because if the business isn't doing as well, or you're not making as many sales,
00:37:20
Speaker
You don't feel so stressed out to maintain a giant lifestyle personally. So that's what we do. And every single year we sit down and we find our bare bones in need. If I can ask you about the bare bones minimum, a few things about that. One, maybe give this example of something that is bare bones, something that's not, you know, because like, you know, I like perfect bars, but they're like $3 a bar. Krista would argue, not.
00:37:44
Speaker
Not part of the bare bones. So just to give people a frame of reference, the other thing I want to ask about the bare bone minimum as well, is this something that needs to be kind of reset every year? Because I could kind of see maybe it growing and growing and growing and then you need to come in and prune that back down. Is that what you found to be the case?
00:38:02
Speaker
Absolutely, so there's that idea of lifestyle creep. The more money you make, the more money you need, quote on. And so that lifestyle creep of your perfect bars, $3, you probably didn't spend $3 on your perfect bar 10 years ago. Yeah, when we were trying to pay off the $100,000 of student loan debt and debt that we were in. Yeah, perfect bars were not part of that picture.
00:38:23
Speaker
I learned this lesson actually from my five-year-old niece like 10 years ago. And I was like, oh, I just really need a coffee. And she's like, Chana, you don't need a coffee. You want a coffee. And I was like, that really hurt from a five-year-old.
00:38:38
Speaker
Like it was really hurt, but it's so true. And so if you, you know, all my students and everybody who works with me knows like, I am not an advocate for the whole 30 of budgeting because I just don't think behaviorally that will last. It's like trying to diet. Why do most diets not work? Huge lifestyle change is very hard. So I want to find the bare bones need just for your own peace of mind. I don't think anybody lives on that unless you were in their truly dire situation. So that's your utility bill.
00:39:06
Speaker
that's enough on the average for the year of what that is. Your utility bill, the minimum payment on your mortgage, not if you're trying to pay it off early and paying extra on it, just what is the minimum? What is the bank going to come after you if you do not pay? Same with credit cards. I'm a big advocate, of course, for decreasing credit card debt because it's such high interest rate. But I want you to know what is the minimum. And so we create a plan just based on all the minimums. So if we had to know, okay,
00:39:36
Speaker
we need no matter what six thousand dollars a month or whatever it is and then regarding groceries and what i call everyday spending. I like to find the average that you've been spending over the last three months we are going into the holiday season so just knowing during holidays it's going to be higher so an average of your most common three months excluding something like christmas and seeing where spending money just so you know okay we spend about.
00:40:05
Speaker
$500 a week or whatever that number is on eating out on fuel for a car the everyday spending is where people really get in trouble And so if they can just put some parameters on their everyday spending That's how I teach all my students a system that we use where we actually have a secondary Checking account just for our spending money and we use our debit card for that. It's almost this idea of creating the behavioral
00:40:32
Speaker
finding the behavior of using cash without actually having to go get cash out of the bank because he does that. I don't want coins in my pocket. I don't want coins in my pocket. And I had a client, I mean, this was 10 years ago. She was like, I live in New York. I am not going to walk around with $500 in my pocket, you know, or wherever you live. I mean, who wants, I mean, some people might like that water cash.
00:40:52
Speaker
So if you can get that under control so i think knowing that bare bones literally minimum from there you want to add in the lifestyle that's where you add in the perfect bars those extra things and i say we live in the one.
00:41:07
Speaker
We live in that kind of want zone in all things. I do this for my business budgeting and I call it a spending plan, money plan as well. Because behaviorally, you can only live in that whole 30 zone that need for so long because it's not any fun. It's no fun to not get your perfect bar.
00:41:27
Speaker
But there are seasons in life and in an uncertain economy, or if you're not hitting your sales goal for your business and making the money, it's freedom to know we're okay if we can just make, I need to go bare bones for a few months. And that's okay. That's where we'll be. Even savings, debt reduction, I put into the want.
Budgeting Strategy
00:41:48
Speaker
like secondary category, because there are seasons where we weren't able to save, we weren't able to pay down debt, we weren't able to do those things because we were just making it, barely. And, you know, for anyone listening, I tend to avoid extremes, because again, I think lifestyle change is made gradually, not in extremes. But for us, we were in a situation when we first started the business where we ended up selling our cars,
00:42:12
Speaker
buying bikes and commuting by bike. Like that was an extreme, but it was for a small season. And we did that because we couldn't afford our car payments. And I was trying to start a business. Kyle was going back to school. So there are moments where making those extreme decisions paid off in the long run. So I hope that's helpful, but I think first just knowing, okay, what do we have to have no matter what? Then from there, second step, we make two little columns in our spreadsheet.
00:42:39
Speaker
What do we want to add in that just makes us have the lifestyle that we want? And then we create kind of the third in my business program, the blueprint model, we call it your need one and your reach for the stars number. So it's really fun. I said, do this personally and in business. And then from there, we kind of set big goals like, Oh man, if we could buy a new car, this is how much it would be. Or if we want to take a big trip, you know, it's above and beyond even just your lifestyle.
00:43:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So as far as living in the want goes, and then I want to move on to those year end numbers as well, as far as living in the want, what tips do you have for, again, kind of avoiding lifestyle creep and, you know, kind of finding that, I don't know, that special zone, I guess, where you're still living in freedom, but, you know, you're still able to do what you want to do. I mean, just comparing it to a diet, I have trouble. Like if I'm dieting, I have to be 100%, you know, like,
00:43:34
Speaker
I have to decide I'm having no snacks. Because as soon as I have a snack, all of a sudden I'm having five snacks, you know? And that bag of Hershey bars is just gone, right? So how do you avoid that sort of thing happening when it comes to living in the want?
00:43:49
Speaker
Oh, I love that. And I like how you really did its dieting because I think it's actually very similar. Knowing and identifying what is in bounds and out of bounds is really helpful with a dieting and with budgeting. I call it a spending plan because I think budgets like a six letter curse word. So I like to say this is what you can spend on and this is your perimeter and this is what you can spend on. So as far as avoiding life, we set our budget personally one time a year.
00:44:16
Speaker
We said all of our numbers we create, okay, here's our everything we need to pay. And then I look at those quote unquote lifestyle numbers that come everyday spending from last year. What did we spend on average on clothes or eating out, entertainment?
00:44:32
Speaker
And you'll learn how I teach it is I look at how much we spend every week. I have no idea how much I spend on groceries. So when people say, oh, inflation, groceries are getting so much more expensive, that doesn't stress me. I mean, it stinks. But what it means is I don't get to buy as many seasonal pillows. I'm still buying my groceries, but I have $500 a week.
00:44:54
Speaker
that can go anywhere, it does not matter to me. And that's what's really helped us, is we know our spending parameter, and we stick to that. So we create our plan one time a year, and then we create what I call like a weekly allowance, and that's for all the everyday spending items. So your power bars, or what are they called? Power bars? Yeah, perfect bars. The perfect bar. Okay, I'll have to look that up.
00:45:23
Speaker
So every year, like when we had Madeline, after about six months, we realized we weren't getting enough every single week for the additional costs.
00:45:33
Speaker
having a baby, diapers are not cheap. And so we, about mid-year, had to readjust. So what I say with lifestyle creep is we look at how much we're paying ourselves every year. And if it's a big jump, I want to know why. Is that because we moved into a bigger house? Is that because we, with Madeline, we added a human to our family? Or is it just because our spending is getting a little much?
00:46:01
Speaker
Extreme. Our tastes. Kyle says, we don't have expensive taste, we have quality taste. Our quality taste is getting a little too expensive. I like to see small increases in our salary every single year unless there's a big life change. I just think, too, determining your values first, for instance, if we're not able to save like we want to,
00:46:26
Speaker
That's telling me we value saving. We have value debt reduction because we want to keep our need number really small. If we're not able to do those things because I've gotten too used to buying the seasonal pillows I want, I just have to reevaluate my values. And so I think so often what I find when I work with clients on their personal finances
00:46:48
Speaker
is we get so used to living our lifestyle, we forgo long-term goals for immediate convenience. That's where the small tweak and same with a diet, bringing it all back. Any lifestyle change, you have to get that big picture in mind. That's what all my students say, when I know that I'm doing one coffee a week instead of five coffees a week,
00:47:14
Speaker
But I'm saving that money to put towards the big vacation. It changes it. It changes the mindset from, I can't go get coffee. It's like, no, you can one time a week. And so I'm a big advocate of like, put in the things you love.
00:47:30
Speaker
But make sure you're putting money towards what you value first because no one wants to be on a budget. No one wants to be on a diet. It is horrible. It stinks. It's the worst. It is the worst. But if you change that mindset, that's why I call it a spinning plan to be like, no, I can go spend on the things I value like a coffee. I love going to get coffee. I love buying seasonal pillows. If I don't get to do that, I feel like sad inside. But I know I can do that within parameters.
00:47:59
Speaker
There's probably some great spiritual lessons in there as well. I won't spend any time exploring in this episode, but I do want to move on to year-end review for businesses. Do you take a similar approach to business as well? What kinds of things are you looking at as the year ends and as you start looking forward to the
Evaluating Business Performance
00:48:20
Speaker
next year? What does that look like?
00:48:21
Speaker
So good. Okay, so I look at revenue, of course, every year. That's the top end, how much we sold. I'm seeing if revenue went up, if revenue stayed the same, if revenue went down. If your bookkeeping is set up this way, and I hope, you know, I would have recommend if you can, everybody set up your bookkeeping so you can look at that per revenue stream as well. So for us, we have three main courses that we sell, a business finance course, a personal finance course, and then our goal setting course. So I like to see which
00:48:51
Speaker
of those products is bringing in how much income and how much revenue. So top revenue total. And then if you can, look at it by your revenue streams, just so you see. So for you guys, you might not look at every single template in your shop, but you might look at your shop sales versus your service-based sales. So that's helpful to see just how much is coming in from a product, how much is coming in from a service, because service takes more time than a product.
00:49:18
Speaker
And then from there, I absolutely want you to look at expenses. Where did all your money go? And see, are there any big items? I love, so I use QuickBooks for my bookkeeping. A lot of my students use Wave. It's a free, I need to do like a comparison between the two, but they, I have a lot of students use Wave. It's free. But what you can do is compare this year versus last year, if you've been in business for a little while,
00:49:44
Speaker
And that's always really helpful to see, did we have any big jumps in expenses? Did your staff costs go up? Did your rent costs go up? Did your advertising costs go up? If there's any big jumps, I like to evaluate those big jumps and see, okay, is that still...
00:50:04
Speaker
proportional to our revenue? Are we spending too much? Did we go kind of like overhead heavy, like house poor, you know, we can go like staff poor or just look and make sure it's still proportional. I like to see overhead costs, not to get in the weeds a little bit, but I like to see that about 30% of revenue or less.
00:50:26
Speaker
If you have a full team and all that, if you look at all expenses, I like to see all expenses to be no more than 70% of revenue. So that includes like cost of goods sold for anybody who has a product. That would be the highest.
00:50:41
Speaker
I would ever want to see. So that leads to kind of the third number I look at is how much profit, like how much was left over. And that should be around 30%, including how much you pay yourself. So for me, my numbers are a lot different. So we have a lot of digital products. We don't run a, we don't have, we have a very lean company. So we run sometimes 50, 60% profit, which is awesome.
00:51:03
Speaker
So those are just some numbers to look at there. And then just a little tip for everybody. If you are making between like 30 to 50,000 in profit, including what you pay yourself. So including what you pay yourself and then profit at the end of the day. That's a good time to ask a CPA. There's this little trick that you can do, not for everyone, this is state specific. So that's why, but just go ask a CPA. This isn't, we're talking in November.
00:51:32
Speaker
November is the best time to sit down with a CPA and ask them some tax prep questions. So one question I always say, if you're in that 30 to 50,000 profit, including what you pay yourself, there's this thing called as an LLC, you can elect to be treated like an escort. Have you heard of this, Davy? Yep. We're both Till and Demi and Krista are escorts.
00:51:57
Speaker
Okay, so you don't have to be licensed as an S corp. So you're not legally a corporation. You're still not, I'll see. But for taxes, you can be treated like an S corp. And this is a really good way to decrease the tax burden because some of it the company pays, some of it the personal pay. So don't, for everybody listening, don't get, oh, I don't understand that. Just all you need to do is go ask your CPA.
00:52:21
Speaker
Hey, here's my numbers. Would it be tax advantageous for me to be treated as an S corp? You have to do that before December 31st, which is why I say, go talk to it and take some time to do it. And I know this isn't coming out, I think, until the end of December. So if you can't do it this year, just talk to your CPA about doing it next year.
00:52:42
Speaker
And if you're on the line, you might want to wait a little bit because once you do it, you can't go back. But for instance, in the state of Tennessee, there's a corporation tax. So that's not always beneficial. That's why I say it's state specific. So anyways, that's a good question when you're looking at profit to know, hey, could I be saving some money on taxes here by changing up my tax, how I'm licensed?
00:53:04
Speaker
Good time to talk to a CPA. The other thing I'm looking at is how much we are going to owe for taxes. A CPA can help you with that calculation, just so you know that you have enough saved in order to pay your taxes for the year before that tax bill comes due. I have full page of notes.
00:53:26
Speaker
That's just the numbers. I look at marketing stuff too, but yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've gotten myself a little business degree by running the podcast. I, you know, it's, uh, it's such a blessing to be able to talk to, you know, all of you smart people in the world. So, you know, and maybe I'll have to pull the date of the episode down a little bit because there's just so much good, good information in this episode.
00:53:46
Speaker
Okay, good. You do have a download, right? Yes. Year end, end of year review that we'll definitely link to in the show notes for people so that they can go and get access to. And I'll probably right after I get the office call start sharing about it too because I think it's just going to be so valuable for people. I just, you know, Kristin and I are getting ready to do sort of like end of year retreat. So I'm taking these notes with me because I just think it's going to be, I think this is a great activity to do together during that.
00:54:12
Speaker
So we're coming up on an hour. I want to be respectful of your time. Is there anything else that, you know, I mean, obviously you have, I shouldn't say, is there anything else for you to share? Because there's probably a million things you could share at, but like, I guess maybe we'll end with this question unless there's something else you wanted to get in.
00:54:26
Speaker
I think one thing I would like to add to the numbers, there's so many things, but you're right. Now I'm like, okay, let's go. Download that end of your review, that will be helpful. I'll make sure you have the link for that. I evaluate to just my level of joy. And I think numbers are so, I love data, clearly.
00:54:46
Speaker
I think though asking yourself, but is this bringing me joy? So when I look at my revenue streams, we are highly right now looking at how to walk away from big launches because that's brought me a lot of stress.
00:55:03
Speaker
and a lot of pressure around a big launch. And so even though if you look at our numbers, the blueprint models, our main course has been for the past few years, and it generates hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. But we have been, how can we make this still produce income, but in a way that brings joy, that's less stressful for me? So that would be my last follow-up question. There are some wonderful numbers to look at and some great data to analyze, but
00:55:32
Speaker
Just also emotionally gut check.
Joy and Revenue Critique
00:55:35
Speaker
How am I? And what has been bringing me joy? I would definitely be sad if I didn't share. It's not just about the data. It's also how is that translating into your life?
00:55:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's something just to draw from what you said at the beginning of the episode as well is just building a business for the life that you want to live. I think that's such an important reminder. Something that Krista constantly has to remind me about because all of a sudden when he hit a goal, it's like that goal for whatever reason wasn't enough. It's really important to be able to come back and be like, no, think about what this business allows you to do in your life. You're doing those things. Exactly.
00:56:12
Speaker
That's good. So I want to end with this question, biggest financial pet peeve. Oh, it felt so weird saying this. Okay, I will share because it does bother me. The idea of when people say I run a seven figure business or a six figure multi, you know, it used to be when we started Davey, I run a six figure business, then it's a seven figure business. Now I honestly think it's like a multi seven figure business.
00:56:40
Speaker
That bothers me not because I don't love celebration. I think celebration is huge. I think because so often there is so much data behind that number that people don't see. And it's like some people say I run a seven figure business and it's like they've made seven figures in the lifespan of their business. And I'm just like, that's not the right way to say that. So that is my pet peeve when people kind of shout numbers with no
00:57:07
Speaker
Data on the back end to back that up because that is a comparison and I think no matter how good boundary I don't even have instagram comparison is going to sneak in somehow and it just makes me really sad to see people running after this number that makes them worthy or enough or
00:57:30
Speaker
So that is absolutely hands down my biggest pet peeve come on people. No, that's a good one. I think it's a good one not only on a practical level because there is so much data behind that number and it could mean so many different things, but it also makes the bottom line sound like I'm happy because I do this and I think for you don't know whether
00:57:52
Speaker
whether the fact that somebody's running a seven figure business is bringing them happy. I've certainly made varying amounts of money throughout my life from being a teacher where I was not making nearly as much as I am now. I think back some of the best years of my life and it was while I was teaching. And so it's just not tied specifically to that. And so I think that's one of the reasons why I love your content so much. That's one of the reasons why back in 2019 I was like,
00:58:15
Speaker
Shanna, are you sure you wanna step away? Just because I think you're teaching people to be grounded, I think, in the right things. So I really appreciate you. I'm excited you're back. I'm excited that we've had an opportunity to connect so much, you know, in the past month or so. Yes. I need to get down to Tennessee. You need to host a conference again. That's what you need to do. I know, I know, because Tennessee, it's in my soul. Going to Minnesota, when people are like, you don't sound like you're from Tennessee, I was like,
00:58:40
Speaker
Wait, like I could throw this on you know working in finance you kind of rein in the accent but I just my love of Tennessee just Blew up like I love it here born and right like so come on come to Tennessee for sure We do need it just have all the friends get together. That'd be fun. That'd be awesome Well, thank you so much for your time Where should people follow along because I know Instagram is not one of those places So where should you fall along if they want to?
00:59:07
Speaker
So I would go to shanaskimmer.com slash newsletter and I need to come up with a more fun name. It really is the place to hang out with me. I send out newsletters on Fridays or once a week. I've been really good about that and I'm really proud of that. And it's really fun. It's not just about business. It's about personal and it's been a really fun place to connect. So shanaskimmer.com slash newsletter. And that's where you'll know all the things going on. I'd say it's like my DMs because I don't have Instagram.
00:59:37
Speaker
So come on over to the DMs. Awesome. And we'll link to that in the show notes, of course, and the other resources that we mentioned. And Shanna, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
01:00:10
Speaker
you