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Season Seven: Traffic and Trafficking
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In this episode, we talk a trafficking allegation and a traffic allegation that both have tragic and terrible results.
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
Piper Lewis' Legal Case Introduction
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:00:59
Speaker
I get into these like situations where I follow a piece of news and it's one thing when I start and then later, maybe it's not what I thought it was.
Details of Piper Lewis' Case
00:01:12
Speaker
There's this story about this Iowa teen that caught my attention. i guess i i guess I started following it when it happened. I know I saved this 2022 article from ABC News out of Des Moines, Iowa.
00:01:28
Speaker
It sort of became a thing. i don't know if you remember this or not. Where... I don't want to downplay the legitimacy by saying what I'm about to say, but it sort of became a thing for a minute where when a manslaughter had taken place, if you accuse the other person of abuse or having been sex trafficked by the person or them having assaulted you, it would largely pause the proceedings and an investigation would take place to try and determine if that accurate.
00:01:54
Speaker
There's this Iowa case. The article I'm pulling from here for this first part is from Michelle Watson, and Dak and Anden, I think. They're like CNN writers, but the article gets picked up by ABC 7 News.
00:02:08
Speaker
This girl, Piper Lewis, had you heard of her? i had not. Piper Lewis was 15 years old when
00:02:18
Speaker
she kills a man named Zachary Brooks. This is back in June 2021. Now, she pled in 2021, but she this was part of ah like an overarching legal case out there.
00:02:30
Speaker
In the plea agreement, she says this 37-year-old man named Zachary Brooks had raped her multiple times. She had initially even been charged with first-degree murder. so in this agreement, Piper Lewis says she'd been running away from home several times. She ended up sleeping in the hallway of an apartment complex.
00:02:48
Speaker
There was a man there who, like, took her room But she, according to, like, the deal they put together, she left when he became abusive. She said she then moved in with another man who creates this online dating profile for her and arranges for her to have sex for money.
00:03:07
Speaker
So basically, he is turning her into a trafficking victim when this is going on. So she lives with that man, and that man like poses like she's his girlfriend.
00:03:20
Speaker
According to Piper Lewis, she gets introduced to this guy, Zachary Brooks, in May of 2020, and he would give her alcohol and marijuana. and then have sex with her. She specifies that over a three-day period, while she was unconscious from the alcohol and marijuana, he had sex with her five times.
00:03:36
Speaker
She figures out what he's done, and each time she would like kind of come to, the man is messing with her again, having sex with her, doing other things to her.
00:03:48
Speaker
On May 31st, the man that Piper Lewis is living with, he confronts her, ah because she says, no, I'm not going back to the creepy guy's apartment anymore. That's the Zachary Brooks guy. And i guess at this point, the deal was Piper Lewis was going to go to Zachary Brooks apartment and have sex with Zachary Brooks. And then in exchange, it wasn't even going to be money. It was going to be marijuana that he gave them.
00:04:17
Speaker
So the man that's trafficking her, like app actually trafficking her, He cuts her neck during this exchange, allegedly.
00:04:28
Speaker
And she goes over to Zachary Brooks' apartment because of the because she's scared that he's going to further injure her. So while she's at Zachary Brooks' apartment, he's feeding her vodka shots. She falls asleep. And at one point, she wakes up and...
00:04:45
Speaker
She's naked and Zachary Brooks is raping her. At some point he falls asleep. So Piper Lewis gets up and goes to find her clothes. And when she comes back to the bedroom, she sees him passed out there naked.
00:04:59
Speaker
and In her statement, she says, I suddenly realized that Mr. Brooks had raped me yet again. And i was overcome with rage without thinking.
Sentencing and Legal Comparisons
00:05:06
Speaker
I immediately grabbed the knife from his nightstand and began stabbing him.
00:05:11
Speaker
And in the plea agreement, that says, I further acknowledge that the multiple staff wounds inflicted upon mr Brooks ultimately resulted in his death. So they give her a chance with all of this because of this. They defer a big part of her sentence.
00:05:27
Speaker
And she's ordered a community service for this manslaughter plea that she takes a couple years back. It's in June of 2021. She's ordered to pay...
00:05:42
Speaker
$4,000 in civil penalties. She ends up with a $150,000 civil judgment for restitution to the family of ah Zachary Brooks. She gets five years probation and it's all deferred, which basically means that she behaves herself for x period of time.
00:06:00
Speaker
it's ah It's going to be expunged from her record. Now, what's interesting is They move her through this facility called the Fresh Start Women's Center. And this is going to take about year, year and a half before she gets there. She's got all kinds of probation violations.
00:06:19
Speaker
Her officers had recommended that her probation be revoked. They have multiple warrants for arrest at different periods of time. And so this case is like getting more and more complicated. She is believed as a trafficking victim.
00:06:35
Speaker
And she's still penalized to some degree back then. and when, do you remember the story Cyntoia Brown? Yes.
00:06:47
Speaker
Okay, so it becomes that kind of situation. she's like She's telling this story. It gets the attention of multiple advocates for her, including Cyntoia Brown.
00:06:59
Speaker
And Cyntoia Brown at one point on PBS NewsHour is quoted as saying, you know, this is a story that's all too familiar. For those of you who don't know, Cyntoia Brown was sentenced to life in prison for killing a man who paid to rape her when she was 16 years old.
00:07:13
Speaker
She ended up getting clemency in 2019.
00:07:17
Speaker
So where I pick up on the Piper Lewis story is she's been ordered into custody to go through Start Women's Center. She ends up cutting off her electronic monitor traffic tracking device.
00:07:30
Speaker
And November 7th, 2022, I read this article that basically says, Iowa teen who killed alleged rapist and was ordered to pay his family $150,000 escapes from custody. So that's where I picked it up. This is an older story. It's like four years old.
00:07:45
Speaker
So I start following this story because I've had cases, and that you and I've talked about them off the mic, involving juvenile females where I believe something like this is ah is happening.
00:07:57
Speaker
Like they're being trafficked or they're being abused, either in a family situation, foster situation, or by strangers, because this is largely by acquaintances and strangers that...
00:08:08
Speaker
Piper Lewis's case takes place. I've been interested in it because she has this huge outstanding sentence over her head where she could do quite a bit of prison time.
00:08:21
Speaker
And on May 15th, another article came out by a woman named Rachel Kaufman. She's writing for who13.com. And it's the the headline doesn't really bury the lead. It says, Judge imposes maximum sentence on Piper Lewis for violating parole.
00:08:39
Speaker
It says a Polk County judge sentenced Piper Lewis to 20 years in prison after she admitted to violating her parole a second time.
00:08:47
Speaker
Piper Lewis pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and willful injury in 2023. For some reason, I thought I was older than that. Some of these dates aren't lining up article to article, but... This is for the stabbing death of 37-year-old Zachary Brooks. The the incident took place in 2020, and Lewis, who was 15 at the time, stated that Brooks had repeatedly raped her, and she claimed to be a victim of sex trafficking. She was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
00:09:12
Speaker
That sentence was deferred in 2022, and Lewis was sentenced to five years of supervised probation, along with 600 hours of community service and restitution to Brooke's family.
00:09:24
Speaker
Months later, Lewis cut off her GPS tracking monitor and left the Fresh Start Women's Center. She was taken back into custody a few days later and was again sentenced to probation, but was warned It would be your final chance.
00:09:37
Speaker
At this hearing, Polk County Judge David Porter said, i indicated to you last year you've asked for a second chance and you don't get a third. I stand by that. There are consequences for your actions. You have now been convicted of two separate felony offenses.
00:09:54
Speaker
Lewis was transferred to a Georgia facility. that specializes in providing resources to victims of sex trafficking. probation revocation document filed in May of 2024 states that Piper Lewis was dismissed from that facility in March of 2024 after violating House Rules multiple times for leaving without permission, lack of adherence to room cleanliness standards, and engaging in verbal altercations with fellow residents.
00:10:23
Speaker
After leaving, Lewis was fitted with a GPS device and advised she needed to report weekly. Court documents state that that GPS device had been dead since April 6th and her whereabouts were unknown.
00:10:37
Speaker
Lewis then turned herself in in December, so seven months, almost eight months later. And a parole revocation hearing was scheduled for January.
00:10:48
Speaker
That hearing was later rescheduled for May. So during Friday's hearing, Piper Lewis admits to violating her probation and being missing for around a year and a half.
00:10:59
Speaker
ah She spoke about the decision to turn herself in She had spent time at a Louisville YMCA. She says she was finally able to live somewhat normally and engaged in life. Said those people saw my character in progress face to face every day. They saw that I was that I'm more than my conviction.
00:11:17
Speaker
I'm trying so hard to make things right. I would not be opposed to a jail sentence, but I truly feel that prison would set me back just like continuing to run would have. The state requested that she be incarcerated for six months. They basically wanted her have 180 days of incarceration and they wanted to put her back on probation after that six months.
00:11:37
Speaker
But the judge sentenced Piper Lewis to the maximum 20 years, essentially like put all these sentences together, And she's going to have a 20-year consecutive
Fairness of Piper's Sentence
00:11:49
Speaker
sentence. And she gets credit for the time she's already served for that really long time.
00:11:53
Speaker
judge's quote was interesting too. says, I don't think it's an understatement to say that I was cheering for your success. I think a lot of people who are in a courtroom for both opportunities or at both occasions were doing the same. After reviewing and considering all these factors, Mrs. Lewis, the court does sign that your probation should be removed.
00:12:13
Speaker
what you think of that? I have a couple questions for you about it. ah You may or may not know. Did she take a plea? but She initially takes a plea to involuntary manslaughter. Okay. And so i presume that there was ah perhaps some nuances in her defense of being 15-year-old killed of being a fifteen year old who killed her
00:12:45
Speaker
Abuser. Yeah, but it was more than that, right? it was Yeah, it it was it was ah he was asleep when she stabbed her to death. Well, right, but okay.
00:12:57
Speaker
Oh, you mean the trafficking part of all this? ah There's some self-defense to be had, even if he wasn't like killing her right then, right? Correct. Okay, now, ah especially for 15-year-old.
00:13:14
Speaker
which is the first thing that I noticed. Yeah. yeah And so my thought is, well, the 15-year-old who pled to this got a raw deal. However, the raw deal is somewhat made justifiable, perhaps because there were nuances in what she says happened,
00:13:42
Speaker
And they said, basically, we're going to give you, like, this really harsh sentence for this 15-year-old in the event she was actually being trafficked by the man she killed, right?
00:13:56
Speaker
However, we're going to give you a chance to not have to have the sentence. Essentially, that's what ah suspension and probation is, right? Yeah.
00:14:09
Speaker
they're They're saying, like... I think it's hard to gauge, like, with 15-year-olds, whether they're going to be successful at probation. You're just assuming a lot of stuff. Well, okay, but it's... I feel like it's almost like splitting the baby, because she didn't have a perfect self-defense claim, right?
00:14:29
Speaker
Right. Okay, and she's... ah ah Because she wasn't... he He was sleeping, right? However, i mean, a good defense attorney could have gone somewhere with that. um I'm just trying to figure out here, like, what the balance is where you've got...
00:14:49
Speaker
A 15-year-old killing a man with the accusations. Now, you started this ah this episode with, you know, they pause things and investigate allegations, right?
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah. Was there anything to that? No, far as know but like it it goes nowhere. They talk about it, but really... It doesn't go anywhere. We're able to see her pleading guilty as a result of whatever came back. But we don't like I think it's a lot of the way this crime goes down in terms of what she pleads to involuntary manslaughter. I think it's a lot of he said, she said.
00:15:30
Speaker
And I do think they were legitimately trying to give her a second chance. But I think the abuse she describes, because by the time like she's talking about this stuff, she's 16 and 17.
00:15:41
Speaker
But it happened when she was 14 and 15. It happened that year that she turned 15 years old. There is not enough in here about what she's going to need in terms of mental health recovery.
00:15:56
Speaker
And I think that's where everything goes wrong. I also think 20 years for an involuntary manslaughter is steep, impersonally. Okay. And so I don't disagree with that. ah You know, there's a lot of kind of factors here that honestly just ah don't really make sense to me.
00:16:19
Speaker
and I like to think there was a good reason behind it, right? However, ah you know, as i I didn't know anything about this ah case, and, you know, I'm hearing 15-year-old killed a man, and what I would say is going to be
00:16:41
Speaker
a version of self-defense, maybe not a legal version of it, because otherwise she has to have a reason for, you know, what would her motive have been otherwise? Was she just evil?
00:16:54
Speaker
Right? i mean, I guess that's where we would have to go. Yeah. Okay. Because it, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Right. Uh, and so,
00:17:06
Speaker
I have to presume that something something was probably occurring. i I don't know to what extent. I don't know what really happened. I don't know what the judge thought was happening. don't know what the prosecutor thought was happening. I don't know what her defense attorney thought was happening.
00:17:24
Speaker
But I feel like they were splitting the baby on the long sentence. However, if you behave, you're not going to have to do that sentence. what am i Am I really off base there, or do you think that's probably... that's what they're doing. Now, at her age, I agree with what you were saying about, like, it's a crapshoot, right? Like, is that actually going to work? Now, did it come into play?
00:17:51
Speaker
Did anybody really... you know, say like, okay, we need to make sure this kid gets the resources she needs to actually realize the break she's getting, if she is in fact getting a break. I'm not entirely sure she is, but like I i could go and do probation, right? if i If I had committed some sort of crime, of course I wouldn't commit a crime because I just, it's just, I'm not usually in a position to do so. Yeah. But a kid who was in a position to do so, i imagine it being almost impossible without the appropriate structure to actually make it through probation, right?
00:18:37
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Because it's not- It is. That's 100% true. You're going to fail probation. Yeah. ah Okay. And so as a- grown person when i hear stories like this and and we got to keep going because yeah like she had every excuse in the book she got two extra chances right is that right or was it just one yeah see but she wasn't gonna get the third correct okay and then the judge like says okay
00:19:10
Speaker
you know, I'm done, you're going to jail. And that was in spite of the fact the state was saying, we just wanted to do six months in jail. They were going to like do a sort of prolonged quick dip, right?
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, that's what they were doing. They were doing like, on a 20 year sentence, six months would be a a quick dip. Yes, that is 100% correct. She was going to get an idea of what you know what was happening so she wouldn't need another chance. However, I am bothered by this case because i i don't have all the information granted, but it doesn't sound like it's ah justice
00:20:00
Speaker
No, it doesn't sound like it. I'm wondering if I'm missing something. So that initial plea is is voluntary manslaughter and to some version of like an alphabet assault. That's like a willful injury kind of assault. So it's two felonies.
00:20:16
Speaker
And like, they're slightly different in terms of what she can be sentenced for, but like it's consolidated for judgment. and She has this 20 years hanging over her head predicated on the two felonies. And that makes a little more sense to me as far as what the judge was thinking.
00:20:30
Speaker
But I think this is one of those situations where, and this is not every judge and it's not necessarily this judge, but I do think judges can be a little out of touch with,
00:20:45
Speaker
with kids today. And I think that a lot of like the expectations of probation are interesting to me. And I don't know if they're right or wrong, but I can't imagine a situation.
00:21:01
Speaker
guess this is going to sound terrible say, but I think if somebody is 15 years old and this has happened to them and you're like dealing with them at 16, dealing with them at 17. And clearly now we're, we're dealing with someone who's going to be,
00:21:17
Speaker
20-ish, 20-something. Which is still incredibly young. It's still incredibly young. 20-year sentence is a really long sentence for somebody that age. And I don't know about the probation and parole and how that would work in Iowa. But in this situation, I look at her and I'm like, why did we not take the young version of her?
00:21:36
Speaker
And like if we were going to put somebody away to scare them straight or whatever, that's the one to do it to. Because... and this is not true every jurisdiction, but most jurisdictions, you have a lot more control over juvenile detention facilities now in 2026. So the young version can get some help and some education and learn some hobbies and do the things that might develop towards the community and organizational structure that she needs.
00:22:11
Speaker
Which I think is what you're picturing. Because in my mind, if you set somebody up for success, they get therapy during this time. They get like, like some confidence.
00:22:24
Speaker
um And honestly, probably some treatment for what's a developing ODD. Right. We know that didn't happen here. Because otherwise she would have been successful. It is a normal path for someone who has had this experience, whether it actually was a form of self-defense or not, a 15-year-old, to take the second chance they're given and to use it for good, right? Or at least to not...
00:22:53
Speaker
i openly defy the court's order. Now, you said um in the article, i think there was a quote, but I'm just going to paraphrase it, that she turned herself in because like she couldn't run anymore. That's actually really sad.
00:23:14
Speaker
and like I will say this, like scrolling through all of these like different... I've read a lot about Piper Lewis in the last few days. And... scrolling through all the different articles one sentence stood out to me that really bothered me and that was this the attorneys in Polk County so
00:23:36
Speaker
they charged this 15 year old with first-degree murder initially and they swear that law enforcement is continuing to actively investigate all aspects of this matter but then they like put this harsh restitution on a 15 year old 150 grand or I think just looking at all of this, we're probably in a situation where nobody knows exactly what's happened. And some of the older people are kind of pushing back at the idea of
00:24:16
Speaker
her saying she was trafficked to this guy, and they're just asking themselves, how could this possibly happen? I don't believe something like that would happen. But it absolutely does happen.
00:24:28
Speaker
um In fact, Iowa's own consent laws, like you have to be 16 to have sex in the first place. So this guy, who, it's crazy. They like talk about him, and they're like, he was a father of three children, and he works for this company, and he does this stuff.
00:24:44
Speaker
Well, according to everything that like we're looking at here, he's 37 years old having sex with an underage girl. So if this flipped right in court and like something had happened to her, the charges that he would get would amount to life in prison.
00:25:05
Speaker
Right. people like you know look at People who assault children negatively, they do not have a long lifespan in prison.
00:25:15
Speaker
But he was never going to get probation. So there's that. Her getting probation in this shadow of that is kind of weird to me. Like, I do think, I think she's someone, and I don't know the Iowa juvenile statute, so i could they may not have this option.
00:25:32
Speaker
I definitely could see her being someone that you're like, you know what? that's It is manslaughter, whichever degree you want to go with, involuntary, voluntary. She pled the voluntary. And it is, you know, a willful assault, but I'd probably kick the willful assault focus on the manslaughter.
Challenges in Juvenile Justice and Trafficking
00:25:47
Speaker
I'd be like, you are in the custody of the state's juvenile detention facilities until you're 21.
00:25:53
Speaker
I think that would be the way to deal with what's happening here. I don't think she's someone that you put on this strict probation basis. I think you're setting some people in the world up for failure. And I mentioned ODD, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, when I'm talking about this, because a lot of times that is a result of being in these situations.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like who you viewed as an authority figure shapes your mind. Don't like... A lot of youth have that. Yeah. I mean, it it it's a trauma response in some kids.
00:26:31
Speaker
i've seen a lot more in the I've seen a lot more since the pandemic than I had seen before, but that may be my own lack of exposure. I definitely, like, I was describing a case that's very similar to you with this, but the the person doesn't stab someone that's trafficking them or raping them. They end up stabbing a family member.
00:26:53
Speaker
And other than that, like everything else this girl describes happened to the same, to this other 15 year old girl that's in a different jurisdiction and having a different outcome from all of this. Um, they had actually honed in on like the trauma response developing and they looked at dissociative identity disorder. They looked at different schizoaffective disorders and,
00:27:17
Speaker
they That case is sort of separate from all of this, but like they came up with different thing. What I saw the whole time, and I'm not i'm not a professional in this, so I'm just telling you my opinion.
00:27:30
Speaker
I saw something that was more like ODD, and ah think the reason... that person lashed out at a family member is because theyre that's who they viewed as abusive. I'm not saying they were or were not abusive, but that's who they viewed as abusive.
00:27:46
Speaker
And that's a complex thing, like, because i didn't necessarily see evidence of that person being the abusive one. But I certainly saw a lot of this, like, like what we described here where she is sexually assaulted in a care center. And then she's assaulted by this man who takes her into his apartment starts trafficking her on this dating site. Like that part, I have seen that in a lot of cases recently. And it's not the people that you think it is doing it. They look pretty normal. They're not sex offenders. They're just these controlling,
00:28:23
Speaker
Lonely people who like abuse these children and decide that's how gonna make money and they're not even making very much money at it They're really just having this crazy thing go on where they're controlling and trafficking this person.
00:28:35
Speaker
Well, right and it's actually trafficking the whole kidnapping ah Teens for trafficking. i don't know how much that actually happens. They certainly don't take big groups of them all at once. However, i can absolutely see the vulnerabilities of some young people being exploited for their basic needs, right?
00:29:03
Speaker
that You know, hey, I'm going to give you a place to stay. All you have to do is this, that, and the other, right? Yeah. Okay, that's how traffic trafficking is taking place. Absolutely, yes. And to me, i think it can take...
00:29:23
Speaker
ah This is so sad. It can take a really long time for a kid in that type of position to realize like this isn't how it's supposed to be.
00:29:37
Speaker
yeah It is incredibly difficult to rehabilitate children from this kind of situation, especially when there's multiple adults involved Like this. sure It's almost, I don't want to say it's impossible, but it's almost impossible that they're going to get back on the right track on their own. I just, I don't think that happens.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, i I agree with that. And i I do think so. You know, judges are allowed even upward departures, which would mean that like they could look at the original sentence and be like, I'm consolidating all this. I'm going above and beyond because of what you've done freshly. They're kind of hamstrung in a situation like this where it's like ah basically ah a parole or probation violation.
00:30:24
Speaker
And the judge clearly... ah kind of, he kind of rolls out and, and pumps here and gives her 20 years. and I think that's a mistake.
00:30:35
Speaker
I think that's a sign that like, like the judge is concerned. Some other person is going to be injured or harmed by this girl. When I look at that,
00:30:47
Speaker
i i wonder like what they were thinking. And I kind of sometimes dig into the judge a little bit. I didn't do that here because he did give her multiple chances.
00:31:00
Speaker
i just i just wonder what really triggered the departure from the prosecutor saying, then we want her to go to prison for six months. Like what made the 20-year decision on?
00:31:12
Speaker
I feel like it's ah a lack of comprehension. Like you said, being out of touch. not realizing the gravity, the nuance, the underlying nuances of this particular case. Because honestly, if you get it in front of you as the judge and you're like, okay, yeah, you've had these chances. Your crime was bad to begin with, blah, blah, blah.
00:31:37
Speaker
I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to give you another chance. Go away. Right. And yeah that's that. And it's almost like the judge
00:31:49
Speaker
didn't take like anything happening in front of him in account. Like, especially if the state said we'd like for her to do six months because see, I have, and I don't know, but I have a feeling during that six months, if nothing else, she, she is still young. i mean, she's not 15, but she's still young. and if nothing else, um,
00:32:14
Speaker
she could learn structure in six months, at least a little bit of it. Right. Because the things that, the things that are happening, it makes it it, to me, it seems like things that are dumb. Like my, my ankle monitor wasn't charged. Right.
00:32:33
Speaker
To me, that is like, just, that's not criminal stuff. If that's really what was happening. Right now, you you know, If you've had a teenager, it is not surprising when anything electronic that they are responsible for keeping up with is dead. Right.
00:32:55
Speaker
I mean, they die all the time because it's not on their mind. They haven't gotten to a point in life where it occurs to them that every night when they go to bed, they should plug whatever it is they need to have plugged.
00:33:10
Speaker
constant power to up so they can have it be completely charged in the morning, right? And I'm saying that a kid being trafficked, if if that's what was legitimately happening, she may not have those skills yet. And I don't necessarily think that's fair. I realize there's other stuff happening, but I really think ah it's a shame that when the prosecution is saying that, they're not listening. I don't think she stood a chance based on that.
00:33:41
Speaker
Well, I agree with you there. And I, you know, I dug through like the public record of this and, and I'm not saying this doesn't exist. I'm saying I haven't found it. I was looking for the moment where it was like, oh, okay. They think the trafficking claim was exaggerated or bogus or something. Okay. that's why they're punishing her If they didn't think that it was a lie, right.
00:34:05
Speaker
Or exaggerated or bogus or whatever. Like, this goes a completely different way now. Like, what if it's real? What they knew it was true?
00:34:17
Speaker
She definitely wouldn't be paying this man's family money, right? if they are If they know, like, if, okay, so I have doubts as to whether they actually investigated it the way it reads.
00:34:29
Speaker
And matt you can go through the court documents here. Marshall Project did a little brief write-up on this. There's a couple of places that you can go find her. Her name is Piper, P-I-E-P-E-R Lewis. So you can go and look at the different things that I've looked at online. And and it unfolds over the course of five years. But look, this is what I'll say.
00:34:50
Speaker
If her story is accurate, And there's a 28-year-old man in one apartment and a 37-year-old man in the other apartment. They're both having sex with her. And a 28-year-old man is trafficking her to other people for whatever reason. It doesn't even matter if it's organized trafficking and it's like just so sort of done in jest. And a 28-year-old texts 37-year-old saying, got any weed?
00:35:12
Speaker
And a 37-year-old says, hey, you got any girls? I'll send the girl over if you like you know do whatever. is literally trafficking. That is trafficking. yeah so even so If any of that is true, that's like that part of it, first of all, that Wilfam injury alphabet charge goes away.
00:35:35
Speaker
Second of all, the manslaughter charge should go away. I understand they charge their first degree murder here, but I think they're wrong to even sentence her for manslaughter. and Here's why. so This girl has, if she has two encounters with this gentleman and both and encounters with him result in her being ah assaulted, then the probability of of her being fearful of a third assault is absolutely justification for an imperfect self-defense, which means you'll let her go.
00:36:14
Speaker
you You can keep one of the felonies if you really have to do that. And i you know I kind of see what they were doing, and they know that I'm right because otherwise you don't offer this person a deal with deferred on two felonies and hang these two 10-year sentences over her and make it 20.
00:36:31
Speaker
You know what i mean? and make her pay for institution to the family. Yeah, it's the restitution to the family that makes me wonder if they questioned all of this and were kind of like, we have to believe the victim, which is weird.
00:36:43
Speaker
But like I think the splitting the baby that happened, as you so aptly described it, was probably wrong to begin with. Yeah, I do too. And like that's the problem. like If you don't pick a lane, then you can go in the fast lane or the slow lane and complain about the other lane.
00:36:58
Speaker
But like that's ultimately what the court did here. they they're The court, and and it looks like it's the same judge involved kind of throughout, at least with the last several parts of this. I can't tell if he's the sentencing judge, but think he is.
00:37:13
Speaker
like you you It's your fault, judge. It's your problem. And like I don't actually care about the end result. But the fact that it's dragging out like this is your fault.
Calls for Reform in Justice System
00:37:22
Speaker
Because you decided that you were going to put them under this crazy deferral deal.
00:37:28
Speaker
which means you had questions. So if you had questions and and you put up this deferral deal to split the baby, like you're the one who made the mistake, not the girl. The girl was always going to be it like a teenager.
00:37:41
Speaker
And that's how this girl's behaving in my opinion. She's behaving like a teenager would behave in these circumstances. um i can only imagine what I would have done in a situation like that, but it probably would have been a whole lot worse than what she did.
00:37:58
Speaker
if and it were If what she's saying is true. Well, she stabbed the guy 30 times. She wrecked him. um Like, she absolutely is. If he's innocent, that's terrible.
00:38:08
Speaker
And in the event, maybe it was exaggerated on her part. Maybe that's part of it. Maybe, like, they just really didn't give a flying flip about her. Maybe it fell in the cracks because of the timing.
00:38:22
Speaker
um It was, like, during the pandemic, I guess. I don't know what exactly is happening there, but it's wrong. And 15 years old, 15. We got to keep that in mind. What was he doing with a 15-year-old?
00:38:40
Speaker
if If, in fact, they don't believe her story, what do they think she was doing there? See, and maybe all of this exists somewhere. The reason I doubt there's any, like, I mean, if it didn't go to trial, there's not going to be a whole lot of filings, right?
00:39:00
Speaker
Correct. Maybe the problem will cause affidavits. There's some filings in here to read. it doesn't, we never, like there's not enough to read that we go, oh, the court decided that she was lying or the court decided that she was telling the truth. There's none of that going on. So it's almost like sort of all of this comes out of the the unknowns.
00:39:24
Speaker
And that's disappointing. ah It's disappointing for a lot of reasons. It leaves ah the... If the victim was truly a victim, it leaves like a shadow over him, right?
00:39:38
Speaker
But if this defendant was actually being victimized by the man who is the victim, it has ruined her life, right? I don't know. Maybe i Maybe it's unfair for me to Monday morning quarterback this or whatever you would call it.
00:39:59
Speaker
But like I don't feel like the nuances are buried. like They are blaring because I just literally listened to you talk about this case for however long in the beginning of this episode. And I was like, wait, what?
00:40:14
Speaker
Because 15...
00:40:17
Speaker
She wasn't even the length of her sentence when this happened. And I just don't think that's right. Well, a person and a person lost their life over all of this. So you would think that the reasoning would be sound and consistent throughout. and that's one of the problems I have with it is it's not.
00:40:37
Speaker
And, you know, these cases are not going to get... less complicated as technology increases and the access to, you know, children who are in troubled situations grows rather than shrinks.
00:40:53
Speaker
It's going be bad. I'd really like to know, you know, which again, without a trial, they didn't have to give an explanation, but like, what did they think that they were doing? what?
00:41:05
Speaker
You know, why did they think she was with it? Why did she have the opportunity to stab him while he was sleeping that many times if there wasn't something bad happening to that child? Right. Yeah. And, you know, I i get stuck there. And um this is not our next story, but there was this TikTok thing that happened where.
00:41:30
Speaker
a DoorDash driver had filmed a man who was essentially asleep in his apartment with no clothes on and like called it an assault. And that blew up.
00:41:41
Speaker
Um, I've dealt with a lot of cases this year but what happened to that case? Um, it's, she was charged. She was charged for, yeah, she was charged.
00:41:54
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Cause if you're looking in somebody's house, they ain't assaulting you. Right. um If everything is sexual assault, that means nothing is.
00:42:04
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so the other thing that I've seen a ah big uptick on this year, also not our make our other story, but I'm going to mention this anyways. What do they call them?
00:42:17
Speaker
I guess they call them pedophile catchers, like the vigilante people yeah setting up the faux police things. Let me just go ahead and just give you a public service announcement on that. None of those are legal.
00:42:29
Speaker
um Don't watch them on YouTube. Don't watch them on Instagram. Don't watch them on TikTok or Facebook or whatever. um Let me go ahead and tell you if they're behaving like that. And I have yet to see a case that's different than what I'm about to say. But if somebody wants to point it out to me,
00:42:43
Speaker
Fine. um All of those people are felons. Like they are felons for other reasons who have decided they're going to trap other people. And a lot of the people being caught are not repeat sex offenders. Some of them are.
00:42:56
Speaker
um I've seen so many of those cases this year where someone from a different place altogether, usually a different state. Like for instance, one of the people that came down here was Wisconsin. and One was Michigan.
00:43:09
Speaker
They weren't, and I'm not in either of those States working. Um, but like those, ah Karma farmers is what I write them down as.
00:43:22
Speaker
ah they're like It's just a matter of time before a couple of them get killed. And like they're already felons. They all have domestic violence or DUI records and drug records. um I have no idea why decided to do this as their job. and And I put job in very loose air quotes.
00:43:38
Speaker
But um they're as bad as these folks because they're creating even worse situations with... you know, because a lot of them aren't following what would be logic and rational rules to actually catch predators in the first place, but they're predators themselves. So like at some point people are going to start making stings to catch the people making stings.
00:44:03
Speaker
Maybe can watch that. The whole justice department or the whole justice system has fallen apart, right? Did you call them Parma farmers? Yeah. Karma farmers. kar Karma farmers. Okay. That makes more sense. Like where you're on like Reddit and places trying to get upvotes, that kind of farming trolling. Yeah. It's ridiculous behavior because like we have a system of justice where just because you gather evidence and believe something's occurring, doesn't make it so like it still has to go through the process.
00:44:39
Speaker
Those cases waste so much time for the police, for the defense, for the court. Most of the time they can't charge them. and Right. So really they're letting people off. They do charge them and they drag them through the court system, but they can't convict them because all of that stuff is almost always screwed up in some way. And inadmissible. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen a single case and I've had a lot, like I've had a dozen in the last year and change, but like none of them have stuck at all. And and also none of the people that were dragged through the muck on those cases so far, I have one that like maybe is a little sketchy, but like the other 11 people,
00:45:22
Speaker
they weren't even criminals, but they're all over YouTube now on different people's channels being drugged through the muck because like, people really wanted to be quote unquote influencer as a, they call them pedo catchers, like pedophile catchers.
John Genuine Case Introduction
00:45:40
Speaker
But like the guy that did it in this last one, um, I don't think you and I really talked about it yet, but like he had kidnapping charges and child abuse charges in his home state. And I was like,
00:45:54
Speaker
How are they? fell They're like felonies. You know what i mean? I'm like, like, so the child that you abuse and never pay support on that you've kidnapped twice from your ex who seems very stable to me based on the paperwork.
00:46:08
Speaker
Um, you've decided you're having committed a crime. So you're going to like make somebody like, are they making themselves feel better? I don't know what they're doing. I think that that is like textbook, uh, deflection.
00:46:23
Speaker
Oh yeah. Projection, deflection, all of it is going on. And like, very interesting. Yeah. It is so weird that they're like pretending like they're pretending to be a 13 year old girl on the internet. And I, I told one of the attorneys recently, we kind of had a conflict because one person had resulted in three arrests for their YouTube channel. They only released one video and that video is only because it's unhinged how everybody responds in that video.
00:46:50
Speaker
But um that guy did not have a record and had not done anything like this. And like, I felt awful about his situation because like, he probably does need some kind of intervention by like medical professionals.
00:47:06
Speaker
And like, I don't like, I don't, I don't know how to explain it without sounding like I'm defending one side or the other there. So I'll say it this way. I believe that he knew It was probably a 40-year-old man behind the 13-year-old girl on the Grindr account that he was talking to.
00:47:26
Speaker
and he was just hoping to meet the 40-year-old man who goes online and pretends to be a 13-year-old girl because he has a thing for 40-year-old men. See, and we've talked about that scenario before. her Right.
00:47:40
Speaker
I feel bad even saying that, but like, that's where we're at. That's where the world has brought us. You end up being you're where you've got it Like no crime is even happening.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah. I have one more story. do you have anything else on Piper or my nonsense about like this current state of the world? Yeah.
00:48:03
Speaker
or you want me to hear the others through ahead yeah go ahead So this is not a super long story. It's unfolding now, but something about it disturbs me.
00:48:15
Speaker
Fox Detroit had carried it a while ago. and And that's where I like came to be reading a little bit about it. And the interceptor in an article about it, um Scott Wolchek, Akilah Lacey, they wrote articles on this.
00:48:30
Speaker
This is a man up in Michigan. I don't even know how to describe what's happening. I'm just going to read from some of those. The backstory on it from Fox was four deputies have been placed on leave by the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department as Michigan State Police investigate an officer-involved shooting.
00:48:49
Speaker
On Friday, this law firm up there back in February announced that it was filing a lawsuit on behalf of a family of a man named John Genuine.
00:49:01
Speaker
Genuine. wine I don't know how you say his name. It's spelled J-E-N-U-W-I-N-E. John Genuine. He's a 34-year-old Navy veteran with no criminal history.
00:49:13
Speaker
He'd been staying up in Michigan in the Ypsilanti area for his job as a laser detonation. So this guy drives around with his van full of tools and fixes lasers. Like, it's, you know, strictly a tech job.
00:49:26
Speaker
He's staying at a nearby hotel. The early morning of January 6, 2026...
00:49:33
Speaker
There was a 911 call that came in about an assault describing two suspects in a white van armed with a handgun. So deputies locate a white van with its lights off. ah In the video that is seen, so like dash cam and body camera, John Genuine is behind the wheel. Police attempt to make a traffic stop, but Genuine keeps going.
00:49:58
Speaker
And it says that he leaves deputies on a chase that lasts about 14 minutes. ah Near Michigan Avenue in this little town, ah the van ends up colliding with a sheriff's vehicle and it flips.
00:50:12
Speaker
A deputy yells that he has a gun. And according to flood law, that law firm that's suing on behalf of the family, there are 27 shots fired in this video.
00:50:27
Speaker
It is found that John Ginuwine was shot seven times and bled to death in the vehicle. After this, state police say there's no gun inside the vehicle and there does not appear to be a reason for him to have ever been targeted or pulled over in the first place.
00:50:49
Speaker
So Todd Flood, the attorney in all of this, puts out a statement that says, a white van, that's all they have. But in the white van, there was alleged to be two black males, one having a handgun. And it's not discernible whether or not that gun is pointed or used in any kind of assault or whether it was just displayed. But clearly, it's not two black gentlemen in this vehicle. It's one white guy.
00:51:10
Speaker
So the 911 call is either bogus or mistaken identity. But what did the van do? so Okay, so... The Intercept article clears this all up for us.
00:51:22
Speaker
The article is titled, Police Chased the Wrong Man, Then Shot Him and Watched Him as He Bled Out. It says, in the early hours, two 911 callers near Ypsilanti, Michigan that reported a white van driving erratically.
00:51:34
Speaker
Within an hour, police had found the van, crashed into it twice on purpose, fired 27 shots at the driver while the vehicle lay on its side burning. at least eight cops watched as 34-year-old Navy veteran John Andrew Genuine bled out and died inside the van.
00:51:51
Speaker
ah There's several inconsistencies and the police response once stood out. The only physical description described to the dispatcher that there was two black guys driving this van a caller stated that the two black guys had brandished a handgun at his wife.
00:52:08
Speaker
So Ginuwine was white, alone and driving unarmed. So that's not what the police up in in Michigan tell Ginuwine's family.
00:52:19
Speaker
They come back and tell his parents when they contacted
Police Misconduct and Legal Action
00:52:22
Speaker
him the following evening. So this is 17 hours after the police have shot this kid to death. He's 34 years old, but just young man, adult, whatever you want to say.
00:52:32
Speaker
John's father, Larry Ginuwine, tells the Intercept, we were told that there was an exchange of gunfire and then John was killed. An exchange of gunfire. He said, call it naivete or whatever you want to call it. But our first thoughts were oh, my God, what did he do? Why did he cause those?
00:52:48
Speaker
On the phone with Larry and Kelly, John's mother, a deputy with a Washington all County Sheriff's Office claimed their recently deceased gun son had a gun. But Genuine, an industrial field engineer traveling to repair million-dollar lasers, only had his work equipment.
00:53:05
Speaker
No gun was ever found in his van. And the officers who caused two intentional collisions appeared to have violated their own department policies, which the department updated after the police killing of George Floyd, testing the limits of post-2020 police reforms.
00:53:21
Speaker
The family is now suing Washington County and eight sheriff's deputies who responded to the case for wrongful death for violating John Dinuan's constitutional rights to protection under the law and against unreasonable searches and seizures. The Dinuan family is now suing Washington County and eight sheriff's deputies who responded to the case for wrongful death for violating John's constitutional rights to protection under the law and against unreasonable searches and seizures.
00:53:47
Speaker
and for gross negligence and willful misconduct, including improper use of deadly force. The suit seeks to hold the county responsible for what it calls the sheriff's failures to train officers and and enforce its policies.
00:53:59
Speaker
Come to find out, he didn't do anything to cause any of this. He was not the guy they were supposed to be chasing, according to Larry. Less than 15 minutes elapsed between the time Washtenaw County Sheriff's deputies incorrectly identified Ginuwine's van and when they started shooting.
00:54:16
Speaker
Officers fired their first shots seconds after causing the vehicle to flip on its side and catch on fire. Only seven out of the 27 shots fired hit Ginuwine.
00:54:27
Speaker
That alone should be cause for this department to be shuttered. Why are they shooting at the van? They don't know. Somebody yelling gun at the scene is the reason they end up telling us.
00:54:41
Speaker
yeah i've I've got some descriptions of that here. i can So it says, none of them alone are responsible for killing him. That's the seven bullets that do hit him out of the 27 shots they fire at him.
00:54:53
Speaker
This is according to an independent autopsy of obtained by Genuon's family and described by their attorneys in a press conference. That autopsy found he bled out and died over time. While Genuine struggled and died, dash cam footage shared with the Intercept recorded officers outside discussing whether any of the shots had hit him.
00:55:10
Speaker
After several minutes passed, one officer said over the radio, he's kicking around inside the vehicle right now. None of the eight officers call for emergency services. According to the footage, and Intercept says they've seen an edited version of this, Genuine lay dying in the van for at least five minutes.
00:55:28
Speaker
And Mara Battersby is one of the attorneys representing the family. She said, the cruelty of it i suppose is what strikes me the most if aid had been rendered he may have survived those ah the four deputies attorney said fired shots two names have been publicly released jacob guos and jonathan early both received awards in twenty twenty four for distinguished service gumbo's got the the department's lifeaving award The Sheriff's Office placed Gumbos early and the other deputies involved on paid administrative leave pending an investigation by the Michigan State Police, which was completed last month and is now pending review by the Michigan Attorney General.
00:56:05
Speaker
The state AG will decide whether to bring criminal charges against any of the officers in this case. A spokesperson for the Michigan State Police confirmed their investigation is closed and referred questions over to the Attorney General's office.
00:56:19
Speaker
and They say that none of the locals responded to requests for comment on this case. The suit basically says they've hired unqualified officers.
00:56:30
Speaker
Officers. So know I was going to say they all need to quit. Yeah. So apparently some office staff have been fired after raising concerns about the officers to the sheriff.
00:56:44
Speaker
Other staff pushed them to hire candidates who had lied about the qualifications. ah In one case, they hired a deputy that had apparently an ah extensive of criminal history. Another deputy resigned in March while under an investigation for having had a sexual relationship with a subordinate officer. the sheriff was also independently investigated after a partially burned a joint was found in their county-issued vehicle.
00:57:10
Speaker
so there's a lot going on up there. But I have to say that like this is one of the things. It hasn't really made the news. um But this case bothers me. And it should be ah followed from a civil perspective because I have serious doubts they're going to charge any of these people. But this is basically a roadside execution.
00:57:28
Speaker
By the police. Correct. And so what was going through John Genuine's mind was When that occurred, I mean, he had to have just been flabbergasted.
00:57:43
Speaker
i don't know what like he, it doesn't seem to have anything going, he doesn't have a criminal record, he doesn't seem to have anything in the vehicle. um He must have thought like he was stuck in the middle of something, he just couldn't see the other car.
00:57:57
Speaker
He kept trying to get away, and he's like, i don't understand. And then, of course, from the perspective of being the driver who has not done anything, once he's been rammed twice, gonna go on the defensive.
00:58:17
Speaker
i I mean, if you're driving along and you have no idea what's happening, the last thing you wanna do is stop for people that are acting crazy.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I understand they're police in this instance, I get that, but what the hell? i And then I was confused. like I was like, well, was it another van that like somehow the genius police like didn't realize that that they had pulled a fast one on them?
00:58:51
Speaker
i i don't I don't know what happened here. I can't tell. Yeah. the The other allegations, I brought them up because they're mentioned in these different articles about, like, know did she hire unqualified officers? i mean, I think the the answer is probably.
00:59:11
Speaker
There's something wrong here, something very, very wrong here. it'll be It's an election season, so I hope that folks take a look at what's going on up there and they decide to do the right thing. it could be that nobody wants to be the sheriff there.
00:59:25
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there, but that is, it's a little bit crazy because there's nothing about that that makes any sense. I scrolled through like the, um like social a media pages for that Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department. and they do a lot of that back padding that like police organizations do for no reason that I never understand. Why do you have somebody that spends so much time on Facebook and Twitter?
00:59:52
Speaker
Like, you know, today a puppy and was crossing the road in South Washtenaw County and eight sheriff's deputies stopped to help the puppy cross the road. So we gave them awards.
01:00:04
Speaker
Here's each individual profile of each sheriff's deputy. And i just look at it. I'm like, what is going on? it would be fine to have a page with information like that needed to be known, right? Right. Emergency information, huge incidents that occur, a way to, you know, get in touch with people quickly. But when they have social engagement, I find it a little weird.
01:00:34
Speaker
i basically think departments like this should get $10 million dollars in insurance, right? Right. And like, if you do something where that $10 million dollars essentially evaporates, we just shut the doors. That's it.
01:00:47
Speaker
This is over. That would put it on like, like the first time it happened, then a department closed, like voters would get it. They'd be like Oh, like this is real. Right. But then they also wouldn't have, i mean, it doesn't really sound like they have much for protection anyway. So yeah if you're driving a van along in their county and eight of their deputies have nothing better to do than shoot you to death, I'm going to go with like one, i think you're overstaffed for that area of Michigan to be shooting someone driving around and fixing lasers in a white van.
01:01:24
Speaker
i think you're overstaffed. And I also think that maybe like less back padding should go on. Maybe more of the situation where you,
01:01:39
Speaker
i don't know, maybe like they should all go work for the trash services or something, be garbage men, give them big trucks. I think that police training should incorporate quite a bit more of what actually occurs as a police officer, as opposed to the extreme,
01:02:03
Speaker
like situational training they received that they're literally never going to use. Yeah. The paramilitary training that a lot of officers get like, this is probably there were eight officers there that night. So out of, out of those eight officers, 10 of them, this is the highlight of their life.
01:02:22
Speaker
Right. And I can't even figure out, like, even if he was the subject of the nine one one call, I can't figure out why they're shooting at him.
01:02:33
Speaker
ah He had a van and he was driving and they had nothing better to do. like But the thing is, like, that has to be, you have to be fostering a community of stupid for this to happen.
01:02:44
Speaker
It makes absolutely no sense. Like i okay, so this is, I'm going to make sort of an analogy, but it's not really because I recognize that this man lost his life for essentially no reason, of actually no reason. Right. Right. It was police stupidity, law enforcement stupidity that caused him to die in the craziest way. I mean, he just must have thought, like, am I in Bizarro World, right? Yeah. at But have you ever seen, like, I don't know, any sort of cop show or whatever? You could even just imagine it and probably be able to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
01:03:27
Speaker
where a car gets reported stolen. And the police officers or law enforcement, they see the car.
01:03:38
Speaker
And so they go in pursuit of the car, right? Yeah. And along the way, as they're pursuing the stolen vehicle, the stolen vehicle gets trashed because the person driving the car stole it and doesn't give a flying flip about it.
01:03:58
Speaker
Correct. Okay. What is the point of that? but i don't know. They get everybody in danger. They're chasing stolen property that's going to be totaled by the time they actually get it.
01:04:17
Speaker
All right? Yeah. and in the me and And somebody could get hurt, right? And, you know... I guess I'm one of those dumbasses, but dumbasses sit there and watch the cruiser camera videos like it's entertainment, right?
01:04:36
Speaker
And i i always wonder to myself, like, what is the point of this? Because it doesn't seem like it's going to accomplish anything.
01:04:50
Speaker
The purpose that the person who initially reported their car stolen, like my assumption is they want their car back.
01:05:01
Speaker
Well, they're going to get pieces of it back. I guess so, but it has never made sense to me. And so I feel like police just really go to the extreme. And so in this case where you've got this person who I'm not entirely sure, perhaps he was menacing or something. i don't know even what the accusation began to be, right? Right, right. Based on the information given.
01:05:28
Speaker
So what were they trying to accomplish here? Because to me, if a man menaced a gun at somebody's wife while driving, ah that's bad. However, they did not shoot 27 times.
01:05:46
Speaker
looked at it I was
01:05:54
Speaker
like hold my beer watch what these idiots do vibes from the whole call and everything i've looked at it and i was like is there a moment in here
01:06:08
Speaker
We're like, we blame Genuine for not pulling over and like sorting it all out with the police. But the truth is, if it's dark and you see blue lights, I mean, you should all like, man, i don't, I'm not going to give anybody a advice on this. i have no PSA advice on this. Do what's according for your area. If you get hit by a I don't know either, but if you get hit by a police car twice, I'm not stopping either, man.
01:06:37
Speaker
Like, what are they doing? Once they hit me, I'm i'm not stopping for them. um And, like, I guess, like, I'll just know it's going to be in the end. He was like, I keep trying to get out of the way. What is happening here? I'm telling you, like, he must have just been very confused.
01:06:59
Speaker
And when you are a legit upstanding citizen, like, it sounds like this man was, right? Regardless, he he, you know, he has no beef that day, right? There was nothing going on that he was involved in.
01:07:17
Speaker
Like, it seems like.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:07:22
Speaker
It would take about the amount of time that this seems to have spanned for him to process and realize that perhaps they were chasing him.
01:07:35
Speaker
Because if you don't, if you're not expecting it or on the lookout for it, which, I mean... I typically am not. i don't know about you. Like it it's kind of far fetched to think in the next 15 minutes, you're going to be in a pursuit with the police and be killed.
01:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I don't have a lot more on this one. I can just say that like, I would probably react a lot, like genuine to some degree. I would want to like slow down and be like, what's going on. But the minute they hit my car,
01:08:11
Speaker
Or flip my car over and set it on fire and then yell, gun? i don't even know what's happening at that point. Well, right. And so I wonder if there is a 911 call from him.
01:08:29
Speaker
That would be interesting. That would be more of a reason to file a lawsuit than any of this other stuff. Well, if now, granted, I'm not saying if there's not one that he did anything wrong, because that is not the case. yeah I can't even figure out.
01:08:43
Speaker
Like, the answer isn't I have a gun i will shoot in every case. In fact, it should, like, almost never be the case. Correct. i I think that.
01:08:55
Speaker
them saying, oh, gunfire was exchanged. With what? His finger? There was no weapon in the vehicle. Like, the the cops were shooting each other.
01:09:09
Speaker
And in my opinion, like, it just, it opens up a whole lot of flawed things, right? oh yeah. That you would hope somebody would would take a look at and say, what the heck? But if there happened to be a 911 call, it would give us quite a bit of insight to what ah John Genuine thought was happening. I'm not even sure that he was able to process it and call 911, right?
01:09:42
Speaker
Right. But that's what you should absolutely do if you've been hit. At least you could get the dispatcher can tell the police that are chasing you what your side is, right?
01:09:56
Speaker
Correct. Like, I have no idea why you guys are chasing me. Correct. Yeah, I don't have anything else on this one. I just wanted to point it out to people because it's going to be interesting to see how it ends up shaking out.
01:10:12
Speaker
My advice would be to settle. Yeah, yeah, you need to settle. Your insurance company needs to settle as quickly as possible. I'm interested to see if anything happens with Piper Lewis's case too, where like it gets some kind of appeal or she gets brought back into things.
01:10:30
Speaker
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01:11:44
Speaker
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