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Season Seven: Burned into his Brain
169 Plays6 days ago
In this episode, we talk about a huge break in a very old disappearance and a disappointing court outcome in a popular true crime murder.
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview of Cold Cases
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:00:57
Speaker
I have tried to follow all these closing cases where like DNA makes a match and this unidentified body is finally identified. And then i've also gone through when they arrest cold case murders, which surprisingly, a lot of those, as most people might be figuring out, are kind of one and done or one-off homicides.
00:01:19
Speaker
Which is, I think that's one of the things that makes it so hard to solve. If they don't have much else for a criminal record or it's all petty, and that homicide was what you kind of call an asshole murder as opposed to like an actual predator.
00:01:34
Speaker
Right. And
The Case of Rose Marie Gayheart
00:01:35
Speaker
sometimes like the link isn't readily made and you know, if there's if there aren't witnesses or if witnesses aren't talking or whatever, like sometimes it's still like a traditional type murder. They just don't know who it is, right?
00:01:54
Speaker
Right. Right. And I think when that happens, I don't end up having like tons of questions in a lot of those cases. So they really don't come up. I might mention them in passing if somebody's identified or if they're closing out the case.
00:02:09
Speaker
So today's like true crime news actually starts with this like really, really old Reddit post for me. i don't really, i don't really participate on Reddit, but I read a lot on there.
00:02:24
Speaker
Honestly, like just reading there, like it takes up the time that I would probably spend doing any kind of post or anything. This I had flagged and kept five years ago and it was in the Reddit that's r slash cold cases.
00:02:42
Speaker
And title is really simple. It's from a user named collective 1985. And the reason I'm mentioning this is because there's there's something other than just the Reddit post involved, but the simple title is the 1985 disappearance of Rose Marie Gayheart. Have you ever heard of her?
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, but only um when I was looking into it. The person uses a lot of quotes. They've got a couple of sources on here, but I want to go through their posts because I find it interesting. looks like they're mainly pulling from Dateline, so it's pretty simple for people to find if you want to go watch the old episode.
00:03:19
Speaker
They say the 23-year-old was last seen outside a diner in Cape Coral, Florida on March the 21st of 1985. That's important because that's making this the anniversary date that they're posting on.
00:03:34
Speaker
And their first quote is, Florida was supposed to be a new beginning for Rose Marie Gayhart. The 23-year-old Dansville, New York woman had been through a tough few years, which included the loss of her baby at six months old and the choice to give up her second baby for adoption.
00:03:54
Speaker
But things seemed to be turning around for Rose when she moved to Fort Myers, Florida with her boyfriend, Bob Paddock, and his mother, Dorothy Rittenhouse. Rose's sister, Lori Travis, told Dateline that Rose seemed happy in her new life.
00:04:11
Speaker
She sounded happy where she was, and she just begged and begged for me to move down to Florida to be near her. This is Lori talking. Lori and Rose were only a year of apart in age, and they were always extremely close.
00:04:26
Speaker
So Rose and her sister, Lori, ah They shared a bedroom and according to Lori, they listened to the same music. In this interview, sit down with Dateline.
00:04:39
Speaker
She talks quite a bit about how close they were. She says they were very close and she says, I miss her so much. So when her 23 year old sister goes missing, she's only 22 years old. That's a long amount of time to not know what happened to somebody you're close to.
00:04:55
Speaker
um In today's time, because like this Reddit post is even five years old, I bring all of this up. Obviously, like something has happened here, but i'm I bring it all up because there's one of those things involved in this case that you and I like commonly find a huge problem.
00:05:15
Speaker
And that is, basically, you have this person from Dansville, New York, and then you have the jurisdiction of Florida. like the state of Florida. There's several different places in Florida mentioned. They talk about Cape Coral, Fort Myers.
00:05:30
Speaker
um Anytime that happens and someone goes missing, I think that immediately confounds an investigation in ways that people have in the past had trouble understanding.
00:05:44
Speaker
Does that make sense to you? It does. Now, Everything going digital and people having like, you know, full computers in their pocket, that makes the world a little easier today.
00:05:57
Speaker
and a lot of these cases are are getting solved. This case is like headed towards a resolution. But let's hear to what let's share a little more about this post and what Dateline was saying.
00:06:09
Speaker
Lori told Dateline she considered moving to Florida. She'd worked two jobs in their hometown of Dansville and didn't feel like she could just uproot her life at the moment. So the sisters kept in touch by writing letters to each other.
00:06:22
Speaker
On March 5th, 1985, Lori received a letter from Rose in which she sounded happy but lonely. Rose wrote that they were hoping to buy a house in Cape Coral and continued to ask Lori to move down or at least come for a visit.
00:06:37
Speaker
In the letter which Lori shared with Dateline, Rose also wrote that she wanted to come home to New York while Bob was headed away for two weeks to the National Guard, but Bob had told her he wasn't going to let her do that.
00:06:51
Speaker
He's afraid I won't come back, Rose wrote. I would like to get away from Bob's mom too because she is losing her mind. Laurie explained that at the time, Rose, Bob, and Bob's mother were living in tight quarters in a trailer, and that there might have been tension between the three.
00:07:08
Speaker
Rose's letter is gonna be the last time that Laurie hears from her sister. She responds to Rose, but that letter ends up being returned. Anytime a letter is returned, I get a little weird about how that's happened. And I don't think we see as much of that anymore as we used to. i will say that, like, I was a letter writer at one point, but then it just dropped off and I became a texter. and an I guess I became an emailer.
00:07:36
Speaker
Like in college, i remember emailing people. And now, you know, i I text quite a bit with people, but I don't do a lot of emailing or letters. do you still write letters? I write cards, but i don't write letters. I don't, but I have family that lives in another country. Right. That I handle their mail, because if you live in a foreign country, but you know, you're an American, ah you still have to have...
00:08:06
Speaker
It works easier if you have a home address in the United States. Okay. As far as banking and stuff like that. And so I have to handle um mail and I have to like resend things to them overseas.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it's funny, just recently I realized I'm pretty sure they don't return things. They just throw them away or somebody steals them or I don't know what happened. But sometimes things just don't make it.
00:08:36
Speaker
My husband put together this like package and he sent it to um us someone who was Venezuelan, but they were living in Brazil. And it cost like a lot of money to send it.
00:08:51
Speaker
And he wasn't really planning on spending that much. And it was gone, like i don't know how long, for
Speculations and Theories on Rose's Disappearance
00:09:00
Speaker
a few months probably. And it ended up back...
00:09:03
Speaker
on our doorstep because they couldn't get it to the person. Wow. yeah that's what And so, you know, it it's an interesting thing, but I had been under the impression that a lot of times when people, um it's no secret, the United States Postal Service has slacked off, right?
00:09:25
Speaker
yeah I don't think it's a secret anyway. No, it's not a secret. Yeah. Okay. And so it seems to me like um they just throw of stuff in the garbage, like instead of sending it all the way back, which, you know, we used to think that was like federal law or something. Right. Yeah.
00:09:46
Speaker
right It's been a long time since I've had something returned to me. I don't i only use mail. like I'll serve subpoenas by mail if I don't want to drive as far as the place that I'm supposed to go. i exchange cards with people. For the most part, like I get junk mail.
00:10:01
Speaker
And bills like, and I've moved like 90% of my bills to where it's all some kind of digital form. ah so I think it's lost on people like what the mail used to mean. Well, it may be. And see, i can go for like days and not check my mailbox and I'm not worried about it because I don't get anything important.
00:10:30
Speaker
in the mail anymore nothing huh like i i do get my mail out of the box but it's i throw it away on the way back so i basically walk to the mailbox and i walk back in and i throw away the trash they left in my mailbox but well good to know i mean if you think about the rise of like ups amazon and all the other package delivery places like fedex like it's It's kind of like they took away the thunder of the mailbox.
00:11:03
Speaker
Well, especially after electronic communications happened, right? Because even though we had email like in the 90s, people were more leery about financial type stuff online, right, for a while. Yeah. And so, you know, initially, believe it or not, we didn't have like – bank access online, right? Right. We didn't have all that stuff to begin with. So we were still getting mail. And then there was a brief period of time, like going into probably like, I don't know, 2005 to 2015.
00:11:41
Speaker
fifteen Amazon tried to use the United States Postal Service, right? yeah Like a lot of things were being delivered, but they weren't good at it. They were utilizing the sort of the distribution network and the asset network to ah facilitate logistics of package delivery. And it like I remember seeing during that time period, I think it's actually a little later than that, but I remember seeing like ah USPS vehicles moving around on Sunday and it always threw me off because the mail never came on Sunday.
00:12:13
Speaker
They were delivering Amazon, yeah. It's interesting, though, that you're right, the rise and fall, but it used to be something. Yeah, so but at this time in 1985, it's a big deal that this letter is returned as quickly as it is.
00:12:28
Speaker
According to Lori, on March the nineteenth Laurie says that their mother received a letter from Rose's boyfriend's mom, Dorothy Rittenhouse.
00:12:42
Speaker
And in that letter, which she ends up sharing this with Dateline at the time, Dorothy states that Rose has gone missing. And that she's it's the weirdest kind of letter. If you happen to pick up this episode and listen to it, the letter is is kind of indicating that.
00:13:06
Speaker
Rose was being ungrateful for what Dorothy was trying to do to help her. So according to a Cape Coral police report, and a neighbor told the authorities that she had witnessed an argument between Rose and Bob on March the 17th, where Rose indicated she was pregnant and wanted to have a baby, but Bob was demanding she have an abortion.
00:13:29
Speaker
The argument ends with Dorothy, Bob's mom, letting Rose call home before essentially kicking her out of the house and telling her not to come back.
00:13:41
Speaker
Which this is another like bygone thing. i don't think it happens as much anymore. But premarital pregnancy in the 80s was a big deal.
00:13:53
Speaker
Even if you like are already living together, it's kind of a big deal if you're a teenager or in your early 20s, which these guys are.
00:14:04
Speaker
um so being kicked out of the house for this might not have been all that out of the norm. But it should have been a situation where Rose was almost immediately trackable because one of two things tends to happen.
00:14:16
Speaker
If you're getting kicked out of the house because you're pregnant and your boyfriend doesn't want the baby and you're far away from a home, you either end up in a new situation where you're... essentially independent, which is trackable because your social security number has to be used on the lease and your bank account has to be used in order to write checks for things or use your credit card for things. That's largely true still today, um that at least there is a trail of some kind that you're going to leave. The other thing that might happen is you might have to move back in with your family.
00:14:51
Speaker
Whether it's 1985 or 2026, if you're 23 years old and pregnant, like you might have to move home. Having a baby is always a big deal. it was we're we're talking You were talking about were talking about the stigma, right? I'm talking about, yeah, like how older people would have viewed... I'm thinking Bob's mom, Dorothy, looking at this, might be disappointed that these two 20-somethings are having a baby and having tied the knot and made it official that they're married.
00:15:18
Speaker
That's no longer like a stigma today as much. So in this letter, Dorothy states that she tried to give Rose a bus ticket to go back to New York. She states that Rose refused to take it.
00:15:30
Speaker
This ticket gets purchased on March the 17th. It ends up enclosed in the letter to her mother. Don't really know why we're doing that, but it feels like they're setting up an alibi. On March the 19th, Rose is hired on at a diner on 47th Terrace in Cape Coral, Florida called Big Howie's Hot Dogs.
00:15:48
Speaker
On her third day of work, Rose's boss reportedly watched her get into a red pickup truck with an unknown white male. She never comes back for a paycheck and she's never been seen since. So that puts us around the time she disappears in March of 1985.
00:16:06
Speaker
So after receiving the letter and trying to reach out to Rose, the letter being from Bob's mom, with his bus ticket on it. Her parents report her missing.
00:16:17
Speaker
This is according to the Livingston County Sheriff's Office up in New York. I don't know how helpful they're going to be, but they requested assistance from the Cape Coral Police Department in Florida.
00:16:27
Speaker
And that's where she's last seen. So that's like a jurisdictional thing. According to the Dateline episode, back 2021, both of those agencies were continually continuing to work together on this case. like So they shared jurisdiction.
00:16:45
Speaker
That's kind of a rare thing. It does happen from time to time. ah They have a detective who had been on the case since 2018 named Thomas Courtright. Thomas Courtright tells Dateline that Rose's disappearance was a cold case, but if new information came in, the detectives would continue to investigate.
00:17:03
Speaker
For those of you who don't know about cold cases, cold cases just mean they don't have a new lead to track down. This quote is, Rose, this case is still very much under investigation and we're doing all we can to try and solve it.
00:17:16
Speaker
This is Detective Courtright. He adds that investigators do suspect there is foul play involved in this 36-year-old case. So that's going to be from 2021.
00:17:27
Speaker
um With how much time has passed, we do suspect that something happened to her. Unfortunately, we don't know what happened. And without a body, it's been difficult to move forward. he continues on tell Stateline that many people have been interviewed and re-interviewed over the years. This was family, friends, co-workers, and her boyfriend, Bob Paddock, and his mother, Dorothy Rittenhouse.
00:17:49
Speaker
a Detective Courtright adds in that no one had been cleared of being a person of interest, and until Rose was found or someone came forward, her disappearance remained mystery. We hope that someone from that area and time remembers something and comes forward.
00:18:05
Speaker
Any bit of information could help. According to the detective, Rose had left behind a metal box that contained a scrapbook with important documents of her firstborn baby. This was the baby who had died.
00:18:17
Speaker
and information about the second baby that she had placed for adoption. Her family does not believe she would have left this behind. And Rosa's sister Lori tells Dateline, and pretty much anyone who will listen, that the family suspects some kind of foul play here. She says she would never just take off and not contact us.
00:18:37
Speaker
We were best friends. She would have reached out to me. Lori tells Dateline that Bob Paddock and his mother returned to New York shortly after Rose's disappearance. While she still sees Bob around town, the two were not in contact.
00:18:51
Speaker
Dateline reached out to Bob by phone, but the calls went unanswered, and Bob's mother, Dorothy, has since passed away.
Family's Determination and Ongoing Investigation Efforts
00:19:01
Speaker
Laurie said her family just wants answers after all these years.
00:19:04
Speaker
At the time, she says, especially her parents who are both in their late seventies and battling cancer. She said they deserve to know the truth before they pass away. We all just want to know what happened to Rose and we want justice. In 2018, Rose's past emerged, bringing a lot of happiness to the family.
00:19:22
Speaker
The baby that she gave up for adoption was back in their lives. He was now married with two daughters and he had been searching for his mom for years. His name is Joel, by the way.
00:19:33
Speaker
um It was a bright spot in the darkness we've been living in, Laurie said, and now we have part of Rosie back again. So Laurie was running the Missing Rosemary Gerhard Facebook page, and she posted a photo in 2021 of Joel's daughters writing, Rose, these are your beautiful granddaughters.
00:19:55
Speaker
This month will mark 38 years since Rose disappeared. Lori told Dateline she won't give up until she finds her sister or at least finds out what happened to her. Three years ago, Lori finally did what her sister always wanted. She went to Florida.
00:20:09
Speaker
I wanted to see the place my sister loves so much, the place where she was happy. I know I may never get to bring her home, but I just hope to find out what happened to her. So I know they said 36 years in there. Obviously, this is taking place five years ago.
00:20:24
Speaker
We're now at the 41-year mark. ah Details of the disappearance are thrown into this Reddit post. It just says Gayheart was last seen in kate p floral ah Cape Coral, Florida on March 21st, 1985. She had lived in Dancehall, New York until 1984 when she and her boyfriend, Bob Paddock, moved ah into a trailer at the 50th block of Northeast Barren Way in Fort Myers, Florida. Her boyfriend's mother, Dorothy Rittenhouse, had stayed with them.
00:20:53
Speaker
Gayhart regularly called her parents and also communicated with her family by mail. She wrote that she didn't get along well with Rittenhouse and that she had a lot of fights.
00:21:04
Speaker
They had a lot of fights. Her last letter was to her sister on March the 4th. She thanked her sister for a birthday card she had received and wrote that she would like her sister and brother-in-law to come to Florida to visit.
00:21:16
Speaker
On the night of March 14th, that neighbor heard an argument in Gayhart's residence and the sound of glass breaking. This was mentioned in the Dateline episode, but it's also in just the general description of the um disappearance.
00:21:31
Speaker
Gayhart went to the neighbor's home. She was upset. She asked to use the phone so she call her mother. She said that she was pregnant and that Bob Paddock and Dorothy Rittenhouse did not want her to keep the child and that Dorothy had told her to leave and never come back.
00:21:46
Speaker
The neighbors saw Gayheart walking out of the trailer with a suitcase. Bob Paddock ran an apartment after their argument and Rittenhouse said that a few days later, she bought Gayheart a bus ticket so she could a return to New York and went to a local bar to give it to her. They argued and Gayheart refused to accept the ticket.
00:22:08
Speaker
Rittenhouse said this was the last time she saw Gayhart. She subsequently wrote a letter to Gayhart's mother in New York with a copy of that bus ticket, which was purchased on March the 17th. It had no signature on it, which I guess back then I don't remember, but I think you signed the bus ticket and that's what made it valid.
00:22:26
Speaker
Her letters said Gayhart was pregnant and she and Paddock wanted her to have an abortion because they didn't think the child would be his. ah It stated that she was involved with drugs and alcohol and that she had left with three men in the red pickup truck and that Rittenhouse was not responsible for quote, whatever happens.
00:22:48
Speaker
Now, according to this this post, Gayhart's loved ones were never sure that she was in fact pregnant because she had never mentioned it to her family and letters or phone calls.
00:23:01
Speaker
On March the 19th, Gayhart went to Big Howard's Hot Dogs on Southeast 47th Terrace. She asked for a job, was immediately hired. She listed Paddock's new apartment as her address in the application.
00:23:14
Speaker
She told her employer that she and Bob were not getting along. She walked back and forth to work over the next few days, and after her shift on the night of March 21st, according to the employer, she got into a red pickup truck driven by an unidentified man.
00:23:29
Speaker
Her boss saw her and assumed that she had a ride home. She's never been heard from again, and she never picked up her paychecks. When questioned about Gayhart's disappearance, Bob Paddock said that he'd last seen her sometime in the middle of March and that she stayed with him sometimes but did not live with him at his new apartment.
00:23:47
Speaker
He stated that she had left with a paper sack of clothes, ah that she had left behind a paper sack of clothes as well as a little box containing a scrapbook with important documents and memories of her firstborn daughter. child. That child had died at the age of six months.
00:24:03
Speaker
And obviously the second baby was Joel who had been placed for adoption. ah Gayhart was very attached to the scrapbook and her family did not think she would have left without it. And that's sort of all we have other than the fact that foul play is suspected in Rose Gayhart's case.
00:24:22
Speaker
So just like hearing that part of it, What do you think when you hear about a case like this where somebody went missing and it's pretty clearly like domestic, I guess, in nature?
00:24:35
Speaker
Well, obviously, in a situation like this, ah you've got the pressure of, ah you know, a a partially unwanted pregnancy, I guess. And then you've got an extra person in the relationship, ah pressuring it further. It is odd to me that Bob moved out too.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so I was thinking maybe instead of his mom living with them, maybe they lived with his mom. ah Yeah, yeah. i think that's I think that's a better description of what's happening. Okay, because it just seemed weird to me that, ah you know, he got the apartment and he went to go live there, but she didn't, right? It's a whole weird situation. i do think it's fishy that the mom, like, mailed the ticket. That's so weird.
00:25:30
Speaker
But ah obviously, this is a case where... um on the surface at least, it seems like there's only
Potential Suspects and New Developments
00:25:40
Speaker
really one person with the motive to kill her, right? Right.
00:25:44
Speaker
Now, one thing I will say is, and I don't know for sure like where this falls on the spectrum of you know information, but her boss saw her getting into a pickup truck. Right.
00:26:01
Speaker
correct right Now, it could be coincidental. That pickup truck could have you know taken her where she wanted to go and dropped her off, and something happened you know after that.
00:26:13
Speaker
ah But he if the boss is truly a neutral person, he's not going to lie for the husband, Right. right And so that adds a little something to it.
00:26:28
Speaker
To suggest, like, wait, like. She's only been there in three days. Has she seen, has he seen the husband yet?
00:26:37
Speaker
I think that it's sort of implied. Now, I think I read that there were three men in the truck. Is that right? It's said that way, but I think that information came from Bob Paddock.
00:26:48
Speaker
Well, that's the other thing. Like, is that a rumor that was spread? Right. i think it was a rumor that was spread. was it actual like the police know that that's what happened? ah Because we don't know. Right. That could change things. um I'm not sure that this was super investigated immediately like it probably should have been.
00:27:15
Speaker
I think it's hard to investigate 23-year-old. think you do tend to think they're out walking around. They just don't want anything to do with these crazy people over here. Well, right. And she didn't really have a home at least right then, right?
00:27:30
Speaker
And, you know, where are they going to look? Well, you know, the i did you say a trailer first and then an apartment? Yeah, they start out in a trailer that appears to be in Dorothy Rittenhouse's name.
00:27:45
Speaker
And then they move over to an apartment which is rented by Bob Paddock, but we don't really know what's going on there. Right, but he, ah according to the the source we have here, he said she didn't really live there. She had just stayed there sometimes and had left some stuff there, right? Right.
00:28:05
Speaker
right But, like, this is a very short succession of time. He said the middle of March, but it seems like it was just a little bit before that that...
00:28:18
Speaker
ah her neighbor her neighbor was talking about witnessing the situation. Right. And, you know, this is obviously ah on its face. ah Yeah. Domestic issue. It's just domestic gone wrong. I feel like she probably told him that she wasn't going to have an abortion.
00:28:43
Speaker
and ah in a fit of I don't know, a tantrum. Either the mother-in-law, which if they're not married, she's not her mother-in-law.
00:28:55
Speaker
Right. The boyfriend's mom. Okay. I'm just saying, like, because i see where people are like, oh, you know, ah the wife slash girlfriend. Right. And maybe it's because I've been married for 22 years.
00:29:10
Speaker
i don't know. But I feel like if you're going to, like, be a wife... you you have to actually have gotten married and like gone through all that stuff. Right. Right.
00:29:23
Speaker
I'm just saying, i don't know that she was saying she was his wife. I've just seen the narrative be that they were married. Right. In fact, it actually shifts things substantially if they're not married, because like legally speaking,
00:29:41
Speaker
it's so much harder to get out of a marriage, right? Right. Than it is to just break up and walk away from their relationship. And so I just wanted to point that out, but you know, this is one of those domestic situations where they were mad. She probably said, I'm not getting an abortion. She probably had no clue that she was in any sort of actual danger, you know?
00:30:06
Speaker
um, and either the mother or this, her boyfriend or yeah, her boyfriend, something happened, right? Yeah. I think it's, well, it's either them, you know, this probably sounds terrible to put the blame on them. It's either them or she found herself in a situation because of them.
00:30:29
Speaker
like Well, do. Because I think it's hard to, i like, she's not from here. There's not going to be, like it's either a completely random stranger caused by the domestic situation, or it's one of the two of the domestic situation. I don't think you and I, like, sitting here can know that.
00:30:47
Speaker
But I think they're still responsible, even if they just kick her out of two places in a row. Okay, right. And I also think they both know about it. Potentially, yeah. I think they have to know what happened. Otherwise, why go back to New York?
00:31:01
Speaker
Now, do you know, was the first baby also her boyfriend's? No, I don't think it has anything to do with this guy. I don't know. Okay. But I don't think that those two – I mean, we're on baby three 23. I don't want to judge this person. What I was going to say is I don't know if he was involved in that situation, but in the event he was, you know losing a child, possibly even if he was just filling the role of being a father, right? Right. It's very, very difficult to lose a Correct.
00:31:34
Speaker
I don't know that because I've lost a child. I just can't even um imagine because it's difficult for me to even see people who have lost children. Right. Right.
00:31:44
Speaker
right And so, um you know, that could ah there could be more to what was behind her saying I'm not going to get an abortion, them wanting her to get an abortion. ah i saw, you know, there was some sort of spewing rumors. You may have mentioned it, that maybe it wasn't ah her boyfriend's child, right?
00:32:11
Speaker
Just a lot of garbage, basically. And see, all that stuff is so unnecessary. And the fact that we are hearing this from... you know, a it's a source, you know, whether it's reliable or not, I really don't see any reason, you know, that it wouldn't be. Well, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to cut you off on this part, but I do want to say that like a a serial killer has been named as responsible for this situation.
00:32:42
Speaker
i just want to make sure that I say that. Okay. Okay. Which is unusual. That we hear about
Impact on Rose's Family and Investigation Challenges
00:32:50
Speaker
this so quickly, but it was someone placed in time. And I i don't know how they think they have DNA in all of this.
00:32:57
Speaker
There's this Facebook page called Missing Rose Gayhart. And they're saying they're pretty sure it is a serial killer named Roland Thomas Davis.
00:33:09
Speaker
And I'm saying they put them into that. So this is a guy named as Raleigh. He's known as Raleigh Davis. ah Multiple cases in Florida have been linked to him recently. At some point, we're going to end up talking about him a little more.
00:33:23
Speaker
He's one of the more interesting serial killers. I find him all over the place. ah But i've met like he barely even has a Wikipedia.
00:33:36
Speaker
Okay? but Well, I don't want to point too hard mother-in-law slash boyfriend's mom and boyfriend slash potential baby daddy. Do you know what i mean? Yeah.
00:33:49
Speaker
That's where you and I are naturally heading with it. They're saying it's a serial killer. And the the and and so this comes up like a about six months ago.
00:34:01
Speaker
It comes up that Roland Davis is believed to have picked her up. Back in May of 2024, something strange happened in Cape Coral, Florida. This kid named Ryland Sands, he's 14 years old.
00:34:16
Speaker
He takes a kayak out into a canal with his fishing pole. He's literally like right off the roadway. If you pull it up, it's like within, i would say 50 feet of a pretty major highway.
00:34:32
Speaker
ah This kid is kayaking along. He looks back and he's like, what is that? And he thinks to himself, I think that might be a human skull.
00:34:45
Speaker
So this is a 14 year old. No way he has anything to do with this. He's in his kayak. He looks back and he decides he's going to swing back around and look at what he thinks is a human skull. Turns out it is a human skull.
00:34:59
Speaker
Not only is it a human skull, two years later, authorities at the Cape Coral Police Department are going to announce it belongs to Rose. So July 24th, we start getting articles. News 10 had it.
00:35:16
Speaker
um The Wink News down there, W-I-N-K, they have it. a The headlines are all the same. Human remains found in Florida identified as Stansville, New York woman missing since 1985. How crazy is that?
00:35:31
Speaker
how crazy is that that we've got 41 years, you know, till today, but at year 39, 14-year-old kid going fishing in a kayak finds Rose's skull.
00:35:52
Speaker
It's a little bit crazy. And if he hadn't swung back around... We wouldn't know. And, you know, it's always interesting in situations like that because...
00:36:05
Speaker
ah
00:36:09
Speaker
it it is just like kismet or happenstance, right? Right. Yeah, it's it's definitely happenstance. I mean, like I had never heard of this guy either, by the way, the Roland Davis guy. Yeah. um So for him to be suddenly connected to this bizarre thing Really old case if you pull him up he has an oxygen special somewhere i haven't seen it yet, but I saw that his name is Roland Thomas Davis senior and He goes by Raleigh and I've seen it spelled like the city in North Carolina R-E-L-I-G-H and I've also seen it spelled like R-O-L-L-I-E and
00:36:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's the latter because it's like a, what, shortening and an adding of an E to his name. Yeah. um So that guy's going to come up for us because i've I've started doing a little bit of a deep dive into him.
00:37:13
Speaker
I'm not sure how much I believe what they're saying about him. I'm just pointing out that Rose has now been linked to him. Right, but you said by DNA? Yeah. Well, I don't know how. I'm saying they identify her by DNA.
00:37:30
Speaker
Okay. I don't actually know. like Like, the Facebook page makes this announcement, which is fine. It's on June 29th of 2025. Okay. fuck And it says, while we believe we got the suspect, Rose's whereabouts are still unknown. We have not found her body.
00:37:51
Speaker
And that's interesting because in time, they just don't know yet that she has been found.
00:38:01
Speaker
Right. She was found in 24, right? Yeah. She's not been identified yet. but And they post pretty dutifully, you know, looking for my sister. Roland Raleigh Davis is turns out to be the suspect they're talking about. And then right at a year later from that post, they find her body has been already recovered and she's identified.
00:38:24
Speaker
That's crazy, right? That it all happens spread out in time like that. Because I'm talking to you about this five-year-old Reddit post. on this case that today is 41 years old. Right. It's so like, and it's so disjointed because of, ah you know, you could get further away than New York to Florida, but like New York to Florida is, that is about as wide a jurisdictional nightmare as a police officer working on a missing persons case can have.
00:38:54
Speaker
This is going to be one of those things where she's been dead the whole time. We think, right? She's found in May of 2024. The suspect has somehow potentially been linked to her in some way.
00:39:08
Speaker
I'm wondering if it's that red truck. And like, like you said, maybe that rumor was true and there were multiple dudes in there, or if he was known to be in that area at that time doing this thing.
00:39:19
Speaker
ah digging into him has been weird for me because I haven't found anything indicating he is some major serial killer. He's definitely dead.
00:39:30
Speaker
and he was definitely in prison when he died. But it's one of those things where when I try to like search for him, I find all these people saying all these numbers. And like he doesn't even have like a simple profile somewhere.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yet. Had you ever heard of him? Roland Davis, by the way? um I have, yeah. have you heard of him? Well, I saw this,
00:40:00
Speaker
right the the potential link, and I just disagreed with the idea. it may Do you think it's going to end up being like the family and that's nothing to do with Roland Davis? And there's always the possibility that it's just like hit and run or something where she has an accident other than it doesn't have to just be domestic or serial offender or could be a one-off of some other kind. I think that, um so he was on death row, right?
00:40:29
Speaker
In Ohio, I think, yeah. Right, because um he had murdered an elderly woman. Right. I think that took place back in maybe 2005 2006, maybe, or even further back. i don't I don't know exactly when that took place. but i can't I can't really remember but it was after sure, because i was processing it in my head.
00:40:51
Speaker
He had entered the apartment. Yeah. it So he was convicted in 2000. Hmm. h It doesn't even have the date what I'm looking at. But anyway, 1990, it looks like.
00:41:05
Speaker
Okay. So it's that far back. Okay. And so um he had entered Elizabeth Sheeler's apartment. apartment in Newark, Ohio, stabbed her in the neck and chest multiple times, stole some cash, fled the scene, as indicated in the state of Ohio's case against him. Okay.
00:41:25
Speaker
And obviously, i saw that. and if we think about that versus what happened here, Right. right Where, I mean, he basically stabbed his victim and she laid where she
Exploration of True Crime Narratives
00:41:40
Speaker
fell. Correct.
00:41:42
Speaker
Versus... I mean, her not being found for nearly 40 years. I've read multiple things that, like, he was killing women in their homes.
00:41:56
Speaker
That's different, right? That's completely different. i I realize that this might have been a... a better outcome. I hate to say that, but that doesn't sound right. Like it might actually feel some sort of something for whomever is positing it that, oh, this person that was missing and probably dead, she was probably killed by this dude, right?
00:42:28
Speaker
You think somehow that lets it off the hook that it was an intimate or domestic murder? I think that it becomes... When it is a domestic situation, it is extraordinarily difficult for especially people close to the victim, but I would say just sleuths in general. Like, it's hard to accept for the family, right? Because somebody she cared about ultimately would have been responsible for killing her versus some monster, right?
00:43:01
Speaker
Right. Okay. And then for sleuths, like, it's just too boring. i follow you. i follow what you're saying. I feel like the only thing that makes, like, true crime such a dynamic, like, industry, basically, at this point, is the fact that, like, people blow stuff that is just...
00:43:27
Speaker
everyday occurrences, they blow it out of proportion and they make big deals out of it. Yeah, i would i would I would tend to agree with you on that. I think in our next episode, we're going to address how that happens with something you sent me recently. But yeah.
00:43:45
Speaker
It may be him. Okay. He may be responsible for it. The people who are talking, i don't believe for a second that Well, actually, I was going to say, I don't believe for a second that an investigator put that out there, but it is possible, I guess. um He does have a Florida murder attached to him in the roughly same decade, is all I can find.
00:44:11
Speaker
Well, was he convicted for it? No, they kicked it because he died in custody. And so that's iffy, right? More than iffy. Like, I'm i'm with you on my skepticism i' here.
00:44:26
Speaker
I'm not saying, I'm not trying to stand up for a serial killer. I'm just saying, like, I wouldn't get ahead of myself. ah it's and it's It's entirely possible that this man...
00:44:42
Speaker
ah was a serial killer and that she's a victim of his, but she didn't have a home. At least his later MO seems to be that like he went into people's homes. Now, I mean, I could look into him further, but I just think it's unlikely.
00:45:01
Speaker
Well, so my question that I was getting to with telling you this is the true crime news that I now turned into a 45 minute conversation, it was going to be, How weird is it going to be when like we're closing cases, but pretty much everyone involved with the case is deceased?
00:45:20
Speaker
Well, um in this case, her sister's alive, right? That's true. But we're coming up on an age where so her sister was 22 when this happened 41 years ago. That means she's in her sixty s now, 67 or so.
00:45:35
Speaker
sixty seven or so Right. And i mean, sixty i honestly, I don't see how they're going to be able to, um, to link it at this point.
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah. That's, that's what I was wondering too, but I didn't. In that situation, like I'm not, i I don't really know where it originated from. i do realize that once you've said something like, Oh, maybe he did this. Right. And Oh, there was a potential serial killer in the eighties and nineties going from Ohio to Florida. All of a sudden he's racking up bodies. Right. Yep.
00:46:19
Speaker
And that's just not going to be the case. This man was caught. Okay. Right. Keep that in mind. He was caught. And,
00:46:33
Speaker
It is not impossible. However, what are the odds that within a span of three days, essentially, she was kicked out of two places and walked away from her job into a ride with a serial killer?
00:46:57
Speaker
I, i will there's like parts of me that like, want to be able to make sense of how we get there. um But the truth is, I don't... a like like the the The statistics of it all kind of kill the idea of it being possible.
00:47:21
Speaker
It's highly unlikely.
00:47:24
Speaker
Don't you think?
00:47:27
Speaker
i just got confused about something. I might i may be wrong. About what? Well, it says here that he was arrested in Ohio in 2003 for severely beating a prostitute, but I thought he was convicted in 2000. Oh, going to, I'll edit around that then for now. Cause we're going to come back to him at point. I'm sorry.
00:47:48
Speaker
I found this. um The reason i was kind of leaning towards him is I found this list of people they think he's responsible for. and I, and I wanted to do those as another episode, but it's going to be a couple episodes before I get to all that. Cause life.
00:48:03
Speaker
um I hear you, man. So I still think there's a possibility this may be more of a domestic. I don't know how the serial killer works out. I do know I want to look into him because has the weirdest mug shots.
00:48:16
Speaker
He does not look like what I think of as a serial killer. And I want to know like how we get there and and what what am I missing from all of this? But go ahead. You're missing the sensationalism of a couple of crimes being turned into more, especially for people who are, who have died. Right.
00:48:37
Speaker
um yeah He was on death row, but he was not put to death. Right. Right. right And ah people are looking, people are constantly trying to look and ah the murder he was convicted for,
00:48:52
Speaker
And again, i We'd have to look at the dates and times on that at some point in the future, but we think it's different. But so the murder he was convicted for, whenever it was, ah the idea was he went in, he stabbed her multiple times, and he stole cash and left, right? Right. Okay, that sounds like a drug addict.
00:49:14
Speaker
It kind of is. It kind of is like um like a person looking to get money, yes. Right. And there's no... men I don't know if she was sexually assaulted or not, but if he if she was not sexually assaulted, i would say there's no question that it was a drug addict. it ah Because otherwise, why would you just...
00:49:36
Speaker
it's not normal for that to happen right right it's not normal for um someone to break in stab a woman not sexually assault her take money and then leave that's just not a normal situation usually the in-home invasion type murders are uh there's going to be a sexual assault right Right.
00:49:59
Speaker
a lot of them Yeah. And, uh, there's just a lot more to it. I think, uh, it is possible that it was him. i I feel like, um, this is going to leave a lot of things unanswered, but her body was, uh, Rose's body was clearly hidden.
00:50:21
Speaker
Right. Right. And, Disposed of, even. I mean, like, the fact that she's found is kind of a miracle. Well, I wasn't even really sure. I mean, a kid had to be on a kayak to, like, and then, like, go back and look again to you know, to confirm what he had found.
00:50:45
Speaker
So it made me wonder if something had shifted and exposed it or something. That's what I was thinking. Like she had been in either tall brush or like in sediment or something and like some kind of movement or time had brought her to the surface.
00:51:03
Speaker
Right. And that's just a very different, that's a very different perspective. murder or kidnapping and murder. We don't even know that she was murdered, but she didn't bury herself. She didn't put herself, uh, she didn't hide her own body. Right. Right.
00:51:21
Speaker
And that's, uh, I'll be interested to see what comes out. Uh, yeah. And if he's alive, if anything happens, uh, her, well, her boyfriend, you mean Bob Paddock?
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If Bob Paddock's alive, I am interested to see if they, if they have further, don't know what the word would be, but like um interviews or conversations with him to try and determine if he did something. Cause I'm leaning.
00:51:55
Speaker
i understand they have the suspect of the serial killer that they announced in some way, but I'm still leaning towards this feels domestic. That was just the like the missing Rose Marie Gayheart page, right?
00:52:11
Speaker
Correct. They made the announcement. Correct. They made the announcement, and I have not seen it anywhere else. I just think i think maybe they were contacted for more information about Rose and maybe...
00:52:23
Speaker
it was before her remains had been identified. So I don't know what the thinking was there. um But like, I want to look into this guy a little more and then I want to look over there and see if they've changed. But i didn't go through the whole Facebook page comment by comment and they do comment pretty openly. And I believe it's all worry.
00:52:44
Speaker
um comedy Right. And that's the, another thing, like I would never want to be like, you're wrong about your sister. Right. No, no, yeah, I don't either. i don't want to, i mean, I'm not one of those true crime creators who does that, like, at all. i I just want to have a conversation about it so I can see if there's, like, a fact I missed or a press release or, like, maybe something that, like, I'm not supposed to be talking about yet because there's more to it. You know, I like to know those things.
00:53:09
Speaker
yeah Exactly. And there could be tons of things that we don't know. But just the like skeletal outline of the case, no pun intended, ah was, you know, this is a domestic situation gone awry. Yeah.
00:53:24
Speaker
It's going to be one of those, it's like a one in a, it's just astronomical. ah The odds of this, of her being killed by a serial killer, if all we know was accurate, right? Right.
00:53:39
Speaker
They're just astronomical. And I have a feeling at some point, if I say that so many times, then I'm going to have to stop saying it because none of it's astronomical any longer. Right.
00:53:52
Speaker
Right. because Because all the things are happening, the odds are getting lower. Yeah, they're not. It's it's not as interesting that direction. So we'll come back around to this one, particularly if she actually comes up related to Rola Davis or... If something more comes out of it that points towards Bob Paddock.
00:54:11
Speaker
um Because at this point, I think those are probably like Dorothy Rittenhouse and Bob Paddock in some way or some random. and And it seems like the Facebook group is filling in that they believe for some reason. And I'm going to ask them like why they think that, because I'd like to know.
00:54:29
Speaker
um But basically, like they're kind of pointing towards Roland Davis. I'd like to know if like one of those things is more than the other. Roland Davis, I have one path to go.
00:54:41
Speaker
if it's Bob Paddock or Dorothy Rittenhouse, it's kind of a different path to go. And I would look into this case a little more because of that big jurisdictional gap and her being so far from like where she was born and where she had just moved from. I'm interested in it just because of that.
00:54:58
Speaker
Do you have anything else on this one? Nope. So really quick. Um, did you see this Tennessee appeal thing?
00:55:10
Speaker
Yes. Are you mad about it? Cause I'm mad about it. I'm really mad about this, but i I understand the ruling now that I've read it all, but like, I'm still mad.
00:55:21
Speaker
uh, it's, so I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm mad. ah at the ruling or at the man. I don't even know. i don't even know what to say. those of you who don't know, um Meg and I are fascinated with not the case itself. I mean, I guess the case itself, but we've been fascinated with all of the legal proceedings that have surrounded the case of the abduction and murder of Holly Bobo and getting to the bottom of that and convictions that have occurred and the ongoing appellate saga. There is another podcast out called Trial and Error. that I think they're on YouTube and on Apple Podcasts and probably wherever you get your podcasts that has covered in detail some of the problems with that case. um
00:56:20
Speaker
We have covered this case from time to time when decisions are made and we have some we just personally have some major problems with how it played out. And I guess we're not being very respectful of the jury's decision, but we feel like the jury was misled by A prosecution that really didn't know how to handle a case like that.
00:56:42
Speaker
um But essentially, if you go and and read about this in the middle of July 2026, finally, a West Tennessee judge made a decision about whether or not the convicted killer, Zachary Adams, would be able to get case.
00:57:04
Speaker
evidentiary hearing and then new trial. And ultimately he had requested another evidentiary hearing after Jason Autry, who is the only case that the state of Tennessee had against Zach Adams, um who had testified against him during the 2017 murder trial and some of the 2018 sort of proceedings he comes up. But he is seen in a video, it's a video taped interview, where he flat out says that he lied on the stand and about Zachary Adams' involvement in Holly Bobo's death.
00:57:44
Speaker
ah But also Jason Autry has found himself like in a situation where he only got eight years for his role, but it was basically a time-served type situation for him. He pretty much immediately got out of prison and went back to prison.
00:57:58
Speaker
so And that's when I realized none of it mattered because right um these boys are going to... I feel like, ah so just for the record, there is absolutely no evidence...
00:58:13
Speaker
to support Zach Adams conviction. Yeah. Zero. And like, I, I like, like anybody that tells you on the internet that like, we're, we're saying something wrong. You can go through the, read the whole thing. You can watch the whole trial. At one point, Meg and I had prepared to sit down, break down the days and do a series on nothing but, ah the, the, the,
00:58:34
Speaker
There's misinformation provided by the state in the Holly Bobo trial, blow by blow, day by day, witness by witness. It's very complicated to do it because everybody sort of makes this huge kerfuffle. Like the minute you start talking it, they're like, why would you do that to the Bobo family?
00:58:50
Speaker
We're not. We're not doing that to the Bobo family. We just cannot believe that prosecutors have gotten away with it to the point that the prosecutor in that case is now a judge. Right. And a terrible judge at that.
00:59:02
Speaker
um And we keep looking at it and we keep wondering when something is going to happen about it because they do have, as far as I'm concerned, they have an actual defendant they could go after.
00:59:16
Speaker
And they would be able to build a much stronger case if they hadn't done all of this. But every time this happens and the state gets up and says, no, no, no, Zach Adams is the one. Let us tell you a story that makes no sense because Clint Bobo never learned how to make meth from these idiots.
00:59:31
Speaker
I have no idea like how they keep doing this to the Bobo family, and nobody thinks like this is terrible. But um for those of you who don't know, Meg and I strongly believe that a man other than Zach Adams killed Holly Bobo, and that he was on the verge of confessing to it, and that the state of Tennessee would have been on the hook with a a very serious publicity problem because of how they had handled that man in custody in the days up before Holly Bobo was abducted and murdered.
01:00:08
Speaker
Essentially, he should have been in prison that day, but the state of Tennessee made some serious errors along the way And for some reason, they've decided that he cannot possibly be the one. Even if he's the one, he's not the one.
01:00:20
Speaker
um But they have now denied Jack Adams getting a new evidentiary hearing yet again. and they're dragging the Bobo family out, and they're saying words through a family spokesperson. And the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is praising everyone in Tennessee who seriously screwed up this case in ways I've never experienced.
01:00:40
Speaker
Okay, so that I couldn't go and look for What? Like, I didn't go look for the the response to this.
01:00:51
Speaker
Oh, was it going to make you sick? or you just I don't know. I just i didn't want to see it But this is what I want to say. So, the conclude like you said, ah the opinion was finally released. It went way over the statutory maximum allowed, right? Right.
01:01:08
Speaker
ah like way over it. I think that it was very strict and he had already said he was going to need the extension and the extension would have been over long ago. So anyway, it doesn't matter, whatever. Now, I don't know if this is something that gets appealed, but I don't even think it would matter if it would be appealed. And here's, I'm going to read something and just so everybody knows um kind of where we're at. So,
01:01:34
Speaker
For all the reasons stated herein, having presided over multiple days of evidentiary hearings, observed the witnesses' demeanors, reviewed the extensive trial record, and considered all exhibits, arguments, and applicable legal standards, the court concludes that petitioner, which is Zach Adams, has failed to establish any ground for post-conviction relief.
01:01:58
Speaker
The court finds that Petitioner did not prove by clear and convincing evidence that counsel rendered ineffective assistance under Strickland, nor did he establish that any alleged prosecutorial misconduct violated the principles articulated in Brady, Napu, or their progency.
01:02:21
Speaker
Likewise, petitioners' claims of actual innocence, whether asserted as freestanding claims or as alternative theories supporting ineffective assistance or prosecutorial misconduct, are not cognizable under Tennessee law.
01:02:37
Speaker
And even when considered in the alternative, do not create serious or substantial doubt as to petitioners' guilt. The court further determines that all waived and abandoned claims were properly dismissed pursuant to the Tennessee code and app gold case law.
01:02:57
Speaker
And to the extent any issue was addressed in the alternatives, the court finds no merit. These findings are based on the court's review of the full evidentiary record. Now, this is a, uh, like template, uh, copy paste.
01:03:17
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, okay. and And what I'm saying is, I see every single thing that he said, and it is it's correct according to the law. even I watched as much of the evidentiary hearings as I could. yeah they were scattered all over the place. yeah Right, and they weren't all available.
01:03:41
Speaker
um so And what he's talking about, under the cognizable under what would be cognizable under the Tennessee law for um actual innocence.
01:03:57
Speaker
ah The, uh, idea is that it actually has to be scientific evidence. It can't be this the situation that they presented where there was a a photo of a vehicle that they couldn't really identify, but it essentially established that ah Zach Adams, his account, are it ah it established facts.
01:04:27
Speaker
Well, it wasn't really an alibi, though, because it was later, right? Right. But it gave more credence to his story, I guess. Right. ah But, you know, just to be clear, the court ah did not find... The court found that Zach Adams' testimony was completely self-serving and and not credible. It also found that um Dylan Adams... ah testimony was not credible.
01:04:59
Speaker
Okay. And so by discounting that, I see exactly exactly Like, I i see. i see what the judge is saying, right?
01:05:15
Speaker
it's And the reason being, like, if there was some sort of DNA, which there never will be, because i i you say um it's because he was supposed to be in jail. That's entirely possible. I have no idea why The ah authorities in this case, because there were several different, you know, the FBI, the tv no was he yeah the fbi the TBI, all the other all the law enforcement agencies involved.
01:05:52
Speaker
I have no idea why they did what they did. i have no idea. Yeah, I pulled two statements too. I want to read them to you.
01:06:04
Speaker
and These are just pieces of bigger statements. Sure. ah So this one comes from the Holly Bobo family spokesperson. It says, today's ruling by Judge Bradbury does nothing to bring back our sweet Holly or erase the deep loss we feel.
01:06:16
Speaker
But knowing the jury found her killer guilty and that the verdict has been upheld brings us some measure of peace. We also want to thank everyone for the years of prayers and support.
01:06:27
Speaker
I don't know how they feel about all this or how any of those words are true, but it's a very polite statement that they put out. They are the only ones who say, knowing the jury found her killer guilty and that the verdict has been upheld brings us some measure of peace.
01:06:41
Speaker
Not sure if that's true or not. ah What do you think of that statement? I have always felt in incredibly terrible. Okay. Like it just, I can't even explain it. I've never had this issue before. I've always felt incredibly terrible that
01:07:05
Speaker
the Bobo family hasn't gotten even the tiniest smidge of justice for their daughter, in my opinion. Right. ah And they think that they have, right? Yeah.
01:07:18
Speaker
And, you know, on the other side of that, Zach Adams has basically lost his life to being incarcerated, right?
01:07:32
Speaker
ah Along with the others, and then... ah and they are not a sympathetic bunch of people. We are not... we're not protecting them. We're defending them in the, this particular instance only that they did not commit this particular series of crimes related Hollywood.
01:07:53
Speaker
I don't think, uh, I don't think any of them were violent offenders. Well, I mean, violent, They weren't serial predator type offenders. Violent offenders has like, there's gun charges and assault charges on all of them, but they were not, they were not sexual offenders. How's that?
01:08:14
Speaker
Okay. I mean, I'm just saying, I don't think that they were out to hurt people. ah They like to get in trouble. and There's a shooting in the family over there. It's just difficult for me to defend them. That's why I'm saying it the way I'm saying it. like It's very difficult to defend these guys.
01:08:31
Speaker
They look like they should be guilty of this crime. but i don't I don't agree with that. I i do not think that for... hold on. Let me rephrase what I said. they They look like they should be guilty of some crime.
01:08:48
Speaker
And in this instance, the terrible prosecutor rode a jury to that verdict because of presenting how terrible these people are. But that, like, they say a lot of words in the trial footage that you can go and watch online.
01:09:06
Speaker
A lot of words are said. But none of it actually, a except for Jason Autry, none of it links Dylan Adams, Zach Adams,
01:09:18
Speaker
Or Sean, mean, Shane. Autry. No, Alston. Austin, sorry. ah To it. The only thing that links them all together is Jason Autry's parable that he tells on the stand. And it is literally a fictional parable.
01:09:35
Speaker
It's the performance of a lifetime. Yeah, that dude should have won Oscar for it. But he did not even get ah he didn't even get to use his get out of jail free card. Well, right, because that is exactly what, like, there was never any plan for him to be free. okay No, no. They were going to get him one way or the other. Now, you said they're all criminals, right?
01:10:00
Speaker
They're admitted criminals. Like, they've assaulted their family members. They've shot each other. I understand that. But listen, this part of Tennessee has sort of different metric, honestly. Oh, I would agree with that, too. Yeah.
01:10:15
Speaker
Okay. And I'm just saying that it it, there's a lot going on here. How about if I just put it that way? yeah And it's real hard for me to digest this case because, ah of everything that happened. Uh, it makes me feel like I got kicked in the chest. That's what this case does because, um,
01:10:46
Speaker
i think And I think attorney Bates even like mentioned it, like in his closing for all this ah hearing, post-conviction hearing or whatever it was called, the evidentiary hearing that led to this opinion. Like it, it's something that is, it makes people give up hope.
01:11:10
Speaker
like it does It does. Yeah. Yeah. It reflects that an entire state's legal system has a complete lack of critical thinking skills. Well, right. And that law enforcement ah and all of them, right? Like all of the law enforcement involved are like, they don't have the
01:11:37
Speaker
They don't have, I don't want to say anything too ugly. They they don't have any intuition. Like, they don't have ah any sort of integrity that would cause them to realize that, like, ooh, I need to stop myself, right, from, you know, telling this person what to say. and Because you have to realize that if you are suggesting testimony to witnesses...
01:12:08
Speaker
Like, you're not solving the case. Well, you know what? It's funny that you say that the way that you just said that, because I would like to read you something from the TBI director, David Rausch.
01:12:20
Speaker
These are three sentences that I think sum up the entirety of this case. We are pleased with the court's decision in this matter. Over the years, our team devoted countless hours investigating this case in the pursuit of justice for Holly and those who loved her. This ruling affirms the ju jury's verdict was just and fair under the rule of law.
01:12:39
Speaker
We continue to stand with Holly's family and friends and hope this newest development brings a further measure of closure.
01:12:47
Speaker
He knows. That's why that statement reads that way. Well, and... So the jury did absolutely find Zach Adams guilty.
01:12:59
Speaker
And technically under Tennessee rule of law, they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. Technically. Technically. Well, I mean, honestly, all it takes is a jury of your peer peers. That's how our system sees justice being fair, right? Yes.
01:13:18
Speaker
I guess where it...
01:13:23
Speaker
I can't figure out where this falls through the cracks, right? Because there is absolutely no evidence that he was involved, that any of them were involved in this. Okay? Right.
01:13:36
Speaker
And that's where i am... shocked. I mean, yes, ah Jason Autry had access to the the case file and his attorneys wrote a story based on the evidence that they did have. But independently, none of it connects any of them except through his words. That's it.
01:14:02
Speaker
Correct. Right. And I mean... yeah I could give you any case file and you could write a fictional account that incorporated everything that was in the file to be the story of the main witness on the stand telling it to get someone convicted, right?
01:14:22
Speaker
Right. It is entirely made up. And just...
01:14:32
Speaker
ah i just I can't even. ah This is another one of those astronomical cases. Oh, yes. Yes, it is Because, so Holly Bobo left her kitchen and she walked a very short distance over to the carport. And in between those two places, she was abducted. By Terry Britt, yeah.
01:15:02
Speaker
And she was she was dead probably before Zach Adams even woke up. Right. That's my guess. Yes, because Terry Britt had killed her.
01:15:16
Speaker
Yes. And it's weird because, like, he actually confessed to the crime. To a U.S. Marshal who had no dog in this fight whatsoever, but unfortunately was in an in a very serious error and an act of ineffective assistance of counsel was introduced incorrectly to the court as an expert witness in something that he did not do.
01:15:40
Speaker
And because of that, the court decided because he had been introduced incorrectly that they were never going to allow him to testify to what he actually had done in this case.
01:15:52
Speaker
um And he was limited in his testimony. And because of that limitation in testimony, even though he worked it in, because he was ah he's a pretty honorable U.S. Marshal, and he worked in everything that Terry Britt had said to him.
01:16:09
Speaker
But and enough it was not considered. Another thing about this case is that Everybody who says, like, y'all are bonkers, okay, in some form, they get shat on like you would not even believe. Yep. Right?
01:16:29
Speaker
And so that causes, like, hopelessness again, right? Correct. Because... It is unbelievable to me that this nonsense is allowed to carry on like this. I do realize, though, i thought this judge was going to be able to do something. But to me, the 97 page opinion that he wrote spells out why he can't.
01:17:01
Speaker
Exactly. And it does not say to me that he didn't believe that Zach Adams ah might have proven something during that hearing. He went step by step and said, this is like why I'm doing this. Right. Which is exactly what an opinion is supposed to be. i just really thought that.
01:17:26
Speaker
he was going to be able to get something, but he thoroughly explained why he couldn't. I think that if he could have pulled something out of anywhere to make it work, he would have, but see, then he's not, if he were to just make this work based on what he stated, he's not doing his job, right?
01:17:47
Speaker
Right. Except, like, I mean, where's, i don't know. i don't know what's next. You haven't happened to hear, like, anybody from the other side, right? Yeah, they are planning an appeal. um There is a path to appeal. It will be occurring ah to so this gets them out of the local Tennessee court. I mean, this gets them out of the local court up into a Tennessee court. I think it has to go back through the process.
01:18:19
Speaker
So this is going to need to be addressed federally. This is going to end up needing to be – so it'll have to be kicked one more time in Tennessee. From what I can tell, it will then have to be – addressed from the perspective of some part of the Tennessee, there's a couple of Tennessee statutes that basically need to be found to be either unconstitutional or ah at odds with something else. So it has two more steps before it's going to get any kind of relief. And that those two steps will probably take around five years.
01:18:54
Speaker
Right. And so, you know, he was convicted in 17, 17. Correct. So next year, it'll be 10 years that Zach Adams has been in prison for this, and it will be 16. 16 years since he's been in jail. Is that what you mean? Since the arrest? it'll be 10 years since he has been convicted, and it'll be 15 years. It'll be 16 years since she died.
01:19:25
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, that's what i was trying to get to. I i can't do math. Yeah, and just so you guys are aware, you know, out in the world today, Holly Bobo's killer is known.
01:19:36
Speaker
He was convicted in January of 2012 of attempted rape of another woman that he should have been convicted of in April of 2011. um He's currently living in Parsons, Tennessee, in the exact same place he was.
01:19:51
Speaker
He is on probation and parole. He is out walking around because he has been out of prison for quite some time. He is on active supervision. His active supervision will end soon.
01:20:04
Speaker
And he will be wandering around as a registered sex offender in Parsons, Tennessee. You can go look him up. You can look up the tag of every vehicle that he has, including his tan Ford F-150, his gray Chevrolet pickup, his white Chevrolet Uplander. You can look up everything about his wife and himself. He is six foot tall, 200 pounds, gray hair, hazel eyes. he's a white male. And he could still be grabbing somebody else.
01:20:35
Speaker
At almost any time. And I have a feeling that, I mean, he did go back to, ah he was charged with other things after her murder and he did go to jail, right? He's going to prison, yeah. He's going back to prison.
01:20:49
Speaker
Okay. and But was it for crimes after, or was it just stuff that they went back and charged of or they went back and addressed? you know? He has not. So his last sex offense is actually technically committed in 2011, but it's just a violation of the registry.
01:21:07
Speaker
So he hasn't committed another one then? Not a sex offense. He has a sex offense from before Holly Bobo that was an attempted rape.
01:21:18
Speaker
attempted rate He has 2008 attempted rape. He has a completed rape in 1995. He has a a first degree rape, pled to sexual battery 1986. He had multiple attempted rapes in 1977.
01:21:34
Speaker
He had a kidnapping in 1995. He had an aggravated rape in 1995. He had phone harassment, which was a plea down from a battery in 2004. He has a violation of the sex offender registry in 2012. He has a driving on a suspended license in 2011. He has multiple counts of theft of property in 2011 that were eventually dismissed, but he paid the cost on, which means he did it, but a judge decided to dismiss it in lieu of a different thing. He has a 2011 convicted
01:22:05
Speaker
conviction for attempted rape. And he either has a conviction in January of 2012 for an attempted rape, or it might be a previous, I still believe that one is the, is the rape he was supposed to be doing in prison time for at the time of Holly Bobo's abduction and murder.
01:22:24
Speaker
Okay. And so, I'm not entirely sure that any of those idiots have even put any of that together, honestly. But I i believe that, have to believe, that law enforcement isn't, like, willfully assisting this man, right?
01:22:48
Speaker
hope so. I mean, i have to believe that. But, I mean, as far as, like, ah the way... That it happened. And it's kind of, like I said, um i feel like I'm getting kicked in the chest. It's smothering. But, so I feel like this scared him.
01:23:13
Speaker
you scared him straight, so to speak? Well... I don't know that it scared him straight, but you can tell, like this guy testifies at the trial ah for Zach Adams and you can tell he, he knows he's trying to dodge a bullet. Yeah.
01:23:29
Speaker
And he's, you know, you can tell that,
01:23:34
Speaker
Well, I can tell. I don't know if everybody else can or not. I have learned like that everybody doesn't see the very obvious things that I see sometimes. But it's because i feel like it's because you you're just not paying attention or you don't want to see them, right?
01:23:52
Speaker
Right. and I think that it was enough that it like... It knocked him back down a peg where, you know, we know that ah his wife, which I don't know if they're still married or not, but we know that she's the one who had the receipt for the bathtub that they supposedly purchased. That was his alibi, supposedly. Right. In a safe.
01:24:22
Speaker
a safe. A salvage receipt safe. Right, which when they went to, when the ah police went to talk to him, she didn't say a word. She came home from work. the police are there to talk with Terry Britt about, you know, Holly Bobo's disappearance. And ah Janet Britt comes home, doesn't really say a word, gets the receipt out of the safe,
01:24:52
Speaker
And says, this is where he was. Okay. I'm just saying that is suspicious as hell. Yeah.
01:25:06
Speaker
it's, it's odd that, uh, I think that the cobbled together case against Zach Adams is,
01:25:19
Speaker
For whatever reason, i think that that's what somebody focused on, cobbled together. i don't feel like any of the people who testified that Zach Adams um had said stuff to him, to them, um i think that they were all pressured to tweak it ever so slightly. yeah um To be ah more geared towards...
01:25:47
Speaker
um
01:25:50
Speaker
relevant see to this case to, to him having done it. Uh, and I think actually, I think a couple of them were just flat out lying, honestly, or misremembering, I guess you could say, ah or it just didn't matter. It came from the initial bull that the prosecutor was selling. It didn't like they're saying the truth, but it's not relevant to what's going on.
01:26:13
Speaker
Well, exactly. yeah, there's no The funny thing is, so the funniest part of this was, I understand why the judge did it, but I actually found Zach Adams' testimony to be very credible.
01:26:27
Speaker
oh I agree. like Him and John Walker were the only two I really cared about seeing if they deviated. And neither one of them deviated, and I believe their stories.
01:26:38
Speaker
Well, and I also, i believe Dylan Adams as well. the The issue with Dylan was that ah
01:26:49
Speaker
cognitively speaking, he was at a disadvantage, right? Correct. And... But if you were to see, now Dylan and Zach only testified at the evidentiary hearing. They have never testified previously. I don't know that Zach has ever given his account of what happened until the evidentiary hearing, right?
01:27:13
Speaker
I think that's correct, yeah. I think that's the only time. Okay, and they're being very real with their testimony.
01:27:24
Speaker
And you can tell just by certain things they're asked and the way they answer it. Now, the judge is like, and you know, in theory, you can discount ah people because they have criminal records, because they're felons, right? You can discount, the jury in a trial can discount that. Now, for whatever reason,
01:27:55
Speaker
Jason Autry's testimony is is gold, even though he's, I believe he was a felon before convicted in this case. Oh, yeah and And so he got all the credit in the world for for that testimony.
01:28:12
Speaker
But, you know, Zach Adams' testimony is self-serving, which... I mean, yeah, it was self-serving, but that doesn't mean it was a lie. Okay? I feel like he's he's got to speak up for himself. You can see it on his face that he realizes that it was terrible that he didn't previously speak up for himself, right?
01:28:38
Speaker
Right. And... You know, he was basically a target, and he had a brother, ah a friend, and then somebody that his father was acquainted with, which was Jason Autry. Like, it was a a collision of of unfortunate calamities, because basically...
01:29:06
Speaker
His brother didn't know any better, so to speak. i'm I don't think he threw Zach under the the bus on purpose. I think he was just trying to get himself out of that situation. I think he was seen as the weak link for a reason, right? Right.
01:29:23
Speaker
And then they realized like he wasn't going to be able to do it. because Dylan really couldn't do it. And then ah Shane Austin could not take the pressure. Correct.
01:29:38
Speaker
Okay. And if, you know, if you recall, Zach Adams never confessed ever. And Jason Autry was saving his own ass.
01:29:51
Speaker
And that's it. That's all he, that's all he was doing. Good, bad, or indifferent. He put on the performance of a lifetime. And, you know, unfortunately, because he did end up getting arrested again and and basically being right back in custody, it looks like he's being vindictive, right, by, went by, by.
01:30:14
Speaker
What did he do? Recanting, recanting his testimony.
Analysis of Jason Autry's Testimony and Trial Dynamics
01:30:17
Speaker
But he's not really being vindictive. He thought he was saving himself, and then it didn't save him. So he's like, oh, my gosh, I've got to go tell the truth, right? Right.
01:30:28
Speaker
But nobody nobody he sees it this way because he's so simple that, like, they're just assuming that he is yet again trying to save his ass. But well they they don't have the logic to tell us how that's going to happen. But they that's what that's what we're supposed to believe.
01:30:44
Speaker
Right, but like jason if Jason Autry had known, like this is not going to help you at all, right? Right. You are literally going to go down for this, and you're taking everybody down with you, and y'all weren't involved.
01:31:01
Speaker
He would not have gotten up there and performed like he did. I have absolutely no doubt that the fact that he is, in fact, simple or unsophisticated or however you want to say it He was told things and believed that, you know, I hate it that he's, you know, I'm having to throw somebody under the bus. He may have even thought to himself, but, you know, ultimately, like, the justice system will work itself out, right? Right.
01:31:31
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if he thought that or not. But I don't think that he had the foresight to think about what it he was actually doing when he did it. Except saving his own ass.
01:31:43
Speaker
Right. And this case is is bonkers. ah I felt like ah Doug Bates IV, who was the ah defense representative legal representative ah during the evidentiary hearings, ah he did a phenomenal job.
01:32:06
Speaker
And I'm glad you said what you said about the, I hadn't looked because I was just so crushed by this. You have no idea. I read all 97 pages of it and i was so crushed by it.
01:32:19
Speaker
And I thought to myself, well, if that attorney, ah if Doug Bates, the fourth, couldn't do it, nobody's going to be able to, because, you know, his initial attorney, um Jennifer.
01:32:38
Speaker
don't, there's two Jennifer's, the prosecutor and the attorney are both Jennifer's. Is that what you're looking for? yeah So, but the defense attorney, Jennifer, she, um, She basically, she didn't do a great job, like, in the trial. And it wasn't because she was, like, trying to not do a great job. It was because, like, I honestly feel like it the case that the prosecution was bringing made so little sense that she didn't even know how to try and...
01:33:13
Speaker
like defend against it because the prosecution to this day cannot tell you what happened. and So that's Jennifer Nichols. That's the prosecutor. Then Jennifer Thompson, who I think had her maiden name during the trial.
01:33:30
Speaker
ah no it was Jennifer Thompson. Jennifer Thompson was Zach Adams' defense attorney, and she flat out admitted the mistakes she'd made. The judge basically, Judge Bradbury basically spells out that doesn't quite meet, I think he said the Strickland standard.
01:33:46
Speaker
It doesn't quite meet the, like choosing a bad theory and following a bad theory does not make for ineffective assistance of counsel by defense attorneys. Right. And I feel like she just couldn't even, they speak about our, the judge speaks about our rights about it. And during the evidentiary hearing, they spoke about how she knew the evidence in this case inside and out, which is true. She did. The problem was none of it makes any damn sense.
01:34:14
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And like, how do you defend against that? And I think that that was where, you know, where she, she just wasn't sure what to do about it. But I see like, and I'm just a person observing this. I i avoided this whole situation like the plague. Okay.
01:34:37
Speaker
And I didn't even watch it until what? Like last year? the year before? The year before, Like, I did not watch any of this in real time. i was like, I don't care. I'm not, I just can't. I don't know why. it just it is what it is. And then I finally watched it, and I'm like, I can't believe they convicted this kid, right? I really can't. Because ah having watched the trial, i think that they had a jury of people who
01:35:10
Speaker
might be under the mindset that if the prosecution says it's true it's true
01:35:22
Speaker
something to that extent because essentially and i i honestly wonder i think that getting on the stand would have made a difference I think it would have too.
01:35:36
Speaker
um I don't know how big of a difference it would have made. i know it would have changed some of the the appellate stuff, but hearing his story would have been interesting to contrast it against Jason Autry. Honestly, like I would have liked to have seen the trial with just no Jason Autry.
01:35:54
Speaker
because Well, they didn't have a trial without Jason Autry. I don't think they could have taken it to trial without him. That's what I'm saying, though. That muddied it so much. And like you know what? They come back and say, no, Zach Adams did it, but here's the other way that it happened. But you've got to completely take Jason Autry of the picture to have that trial.
01:36:13
Speaker
I would have liked to have seen how that played out is what I'm saying.
01:36:20
Speaker
so The trial part. Like, what is that theory when there is no Jason? Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think there was one. Well, he so the thing is, he never really tells his story until the trial.
01:36:34
Speaker
Like, he must have told them something along the way. No, he didn't. but He was specifically recruited Like, I'm telling you, man. Then that's the bigger part of the problem that they're not. Like, when you're suborning perjury is what that's called. That's when you ask someone to get up and say something that you know as an attorney is going to be a lie.
01:36:57
Speaker
Doesn't matter if you're a prosecutor. Doesn't matter you're defense attorney. well But don't you... I felt like Jennifer Nichols was using all kinds of semantics to to have said on the stand she did not subordinate perjury.
01:37:12
Speaker
and and I felt like she was doing it semantically. Meaning that she never said get up there and lie. Right? She never said it to them. And so therefore she can say that. But she...
01:37:25
Speaker
And maybe she never thought about it, so she didn't think they were lying, right? Right. But... She knows he's lying. Well, I think, but I think somehow she, like, justifies this. Now, the, uh, uh, Paul... The other prosecutor?
01:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, the other prosecutor, Paul, um, I think he genuinely doesn't realize what's going on. Based on his testimony at the evidentiary hearing.
01:37:56
Speaker
I think it's safe to say that everyone here definitely doesn't know what's going on. And. Because she's a special prosecutor brought in on that because the other D.A. couldn't prosecute it because he didn't have Jason Autry.
01:38:14
Speaker
Well, right, and see, there's all this other conflict behind the scenes, and I think the problem was, i honestly feel like, for whatever reason, somebody told somebody in the family, we'll just put it that way, in Holly Bobo's family, ah that ah this...
01:38:38
Speaker
No, I actually, I think it was when Zach Adams told Clint Bobo that that was Shane, right? Right. do you remember that? Yep. When he meant like, it would have looked like Shane, but it didn't look like Shane. Shane had bright red hair, right? Right. It was not him. Okay. And so i think that that really convinced ah the Bobos, right?
01:39:06
Speaker
and And, you know, they are entitled to think whatever they want about this situation. I'm not addressing the Bobo family all. I feel like they've done through enough. And so. me personally, you can say whatever you want there Well, and well here here's all I was going to say. i think that there was pressure. i think that's why there was a special prosecutor brought in.
01:39:26
Speaker
I think that there was hesitancy. Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:33
Speaker
yeah To move forward on the case based on what they had because they did not have a case. And they literally went through the four of them trying to get the witness. And Jason Autry was not the first choice.
01:39:53
Speaker
No, it was. They wanted shame. They really wanted shame. Well, no. First, they wanted... Yeah, they wanted Shane, and then they wanted Dylan, and then they went to Jason, right? yeah Because they thought, you know, they just as easily could have gone to Zack and thrown Jason Autry under.
01:40:14
Speaker
You think so? That would have been interesting. How would it have been different? It literally would have been Zack Adams up there telling the same story, except it would have been Jason Autry who had abducted her. And you know what?
01:40:28
Speaker
Like, well, you know what? I bet the reason why they didn't do that is because he was so tall. Jason Autry? Yeah, he was way too tall to be the dude.
01:40:39
Speaker
Well, Zach was too tall be the dude. Zach's like my height, or little shorter than me, but Zach's not small. The other thing I wondered was, I've never heard Clint Bobo say what he thinks of all that.
01:40:55
Speaker
Because he saw the guy. Right. Okay? And no matter what anybody says, i will never believe that he doesn't have that burnt into his mind's eye. Okay?
01:41:11
Speaker
He remembers what the person looks like. Was it one of those four men? I think that Clint Barber could say no. It wasn't. And I have no idea why he he doesn't. i I would imagine because he has a tremendous amount of guilt already.
01:41:32
Speaker
And it's easier to for his mom to have gotten peace, right? Because even though, the you know,
01:41:43
Speaker
it brings me all kinds of not having peace. Like that doesn't change the fact that the Bobo family felt like they got justice. Right. And so for him to say, look, y'all, it wasn't any of these guys, right.
01:41:59
Speaker
It disrupts everything. Yeah. But if I was Karen Bobo, I would have said Clint, which one got her?
01:42:11
Speaker
Right? And what would he have had to say in that moment? He would have to say, well, wasn't any of them. And so then what? You see, that's where it's just, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me that it full it unfolded the way it did. Clearly, he saw one guy. This is a crime that one guy commits. Okay?
01:42:35
Speaker
This is not a four-person crime. Yeah, we talked about that at length. Yeah. And Clint Bobo saw one person and he described a very particular type of person that happens to fit the description of Terry Britt.
01:42:56
Speaker
Well, fit description of
01:43:00
Speaker
it fits the description Terry Britt, who is a known rapist and multiple victims that Terry Britt has taken have been young, pretty blonde women. Well, exactly. And so now that I'm kind of talking it out again, like, I feel like this should be like crystal clear. And I, I'm just, I feel like maybe ah Clint just doesn't have it in his heart to disrupt the situation. But if I were Holly's mom...
01:43:31
Speaker
I would have had to have asked my son yeah which one it was. And I don't feel like that's taken place. And I don't even know that it's occurred to them. Right?
01:43:42
Speaker
You know, I don't know what's happening over there. I just know that, like. Blinders. It's got to be blinders. The Bobo family is in the worst possible position. Because they wanted justice and closures.
01:43:57
Speaker
And no matter what they do at this point, I don't think they
Debate on Alternative Suspects and Justice Possibilities
01:44:00
Speaker
get it. The only way they get it is if Terry Britt is taken off of parole and put on trial, which just can't happen until we do something about Zach Adams.
01:44:11
Speaker
Well, right. And I feel like, um so the best thing, as far as that goes, um if something were to happen and he confessed, I'm not even sure that they would believe him at that point.
01:44:28
Speaker
So I'm saying like if Terry Britt confessed because like he confessed previously and nobody believed him. So um he even said why he did it. He said because I would, well, he said that whoever did it would have been wanting that body and then they'd have a body. Well, if you keep it, you've got to feed it.
01:44:51
Speaker
Right. I mean, he talked through the entire crime. yeah That is not normal thinking that, well, the stuff that he was saying is not normal. Correct. That's not what comes out of a a normal guy who, like, you know, was buying a bathtub that morning was thinking. Yeah. And for whatever reason, it's just fallen on deaf ears. And I guess, ah so what I was saying was,
01:45:22
Speaker
Even if he confessed, I don't think they would believe him. So there is no hope. However, was thinking before explored the appeal path, I was thinking perhaps he should try and get clemency. That's not bad idea. don't know. don't know if that's the way to do or not.
01:45:47
Speaker
Well, base. So what needs to happen is, and this is where it's so touchy. Clint Bobo needs to say. i didn't see zackch Adams or Shane Austin or Jason Autry. Or he just needs to say who he saw. That might work too. Yeah.
01:46:12
Speaker
Well, I mean, it seemed to me like, and Jennifer Thompson had to have at least tried to do this on the stand. I can't really recall right off the top of my head, but she had to have at least tried. And why didn't the jury pick up on that? Do they think that there's another phantom person that is the one who did it?
01:46:36
Speaker
i i do not know the answer to that question. And, you know... Clint Bobo's description of the man who took his now missing sister right after that had just occurred, it was accurate.
01:46:52
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. It does not fit anybody that has been accused, convicted, or a suspect. It doesn't fit any of them except Terry Britt.
01:47:05
Speaker
And Clint Bobo's got to know that deep down inside. Yeah, I think so. and Yeah, look, I could talk about this one all day. i'm I'm telling you now, it's going to come up again.
01:47:17
Speaker
With whatever happens next, we're going to talk about it. I will put it on the end the beginning of an episode. Go ahead. And ah that I'm saying at like a thousand percent it's going to come up. ah It's going to come up again. And anything that anybody has to say about it, I i can knock every single thing down.
01:47:35
Speaker
Like when people start talking about, because there are people who believe he's guilty. yeah These four guys did this. Yeah. And that's not the case. Here's my advice to those people. Never be on a jury.
01:47:48
Speaker
Never be on a jury. You're a follower. Do not be on a jury. And we are not trying to be your leaders on this case. You're allowed to think that. Just don't be on a jury. Because I'm telling you, the odds of this being Zach Adams are zero.
01:48:06
Speaker
They're not doing the opposite of astronomical.
01:48:11
Speaker
And unfortunately, i don't feel like there's there's going to be like physical, non-testimonial evidence that's ever going to conclusively establish anything, except...
01:48:28
Speaker
Clint Bobo, I'm telling you. Yeah, Clint Bobo. You're right. I think you're right. Clint Bobo, I think, could solve. He has got the image of his sister and whoever took her walking across that backyard. He's got it burnt into his brain. i have absolutely no doubt.
01:48:55
Speaker
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01:49:06
Speaker
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Podcast Conclusion and Engagement Information
01:49:09
Speaker
This is True Crime XS.
01:49:20
Speaker
I break things like guitars.
01:49:29
Speaker
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01:49:39
Speaker
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01:50:01
Speaker
true crime excess is brought to you by john and mag It's written, produced, edited, and posted by John and Meg. You can always support True Crime Access through Patreon.com, or if you have a story you'd like them to cover, you can reach them at TrueCrimeAccess.com.
01:50:19
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.