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Season Seven: Jailhouse Drama
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In this episode, we talk about jailhouse relationships that cause major issues in court.
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Sources:
Various News Sources Mentioned by Name
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:00:57
Speaker
Do you follow like strange cases between like corrections officers and inmates?
Baltimore Corrections Officers Scandal
00:01:07
Speaker
Like when you hear about like someone, trying to think of the name of those two people. we follow I know we followed one because there was like the escape that happened and it was like the lieutenant that had like, she had decided she wanted to have a relationship with the inmate and they were going to get in Alabama. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:01:26
Speaker
I can't remember her name either, but yeah, it was bad news. I get fascinated from time to time when I hear about something really crazy happening. And I don't know if you remember way back a long time ago in Baltimore.
00:01:41
Speaker
there was ah want to say there were like, it's either going to be four or five corrections officers who got impregnated by the same guy. Do you remember that case?
00:01:54
Speaker
Maybe. i remove like i can't I can picture it. Oh, I found it pretty quickly. Okay. um This is a CBS News article from April 2013, just by staff.
00:02:08
Speaker
It says four female prison guards impregnated by same inmate. Baltimore, Maryland. Four female prison guards in Baltimore fell pregnant to the same inmate, according to authorities who have busted a major smuggling gang inside the jail system.
00:02:23
Speaker
Two of the women tattooed the inmates name on their bodies. And he showered three of them with expensive gifts, including cars and jewelry. i hear that. Like, I think when people hear cars and jewelry, they think like a Roy's Royce and like some expensive Hope Diamond style necklace and all I can picture is like a 2003 Dodge Caravan.
00:02:44
Speaker
And like, Some basic silver chains. It says the four women are among 25 people who face federal charges, including 13 female prison guards.
00:02:56
Speaker
The scheme involves smuggling drugs and cell phones into the Baltimore City Detention Center. According to
Inmate Tovon White's Contraband Scheme
00:03:03
Speaker
U.S. Attorney Rod Rosenstein, 25 defendants participated in running the activities of the black guerrilla, like GUE,
00:03:11
Speaker
Family, a prison and street gang from behind bars in Baltimore City, 13 female correction officers, seven inmates and five alleged co-conspirators are charged with racketeering, money laundering and possession with the intent to distribute.
00:03:27
Speaker
Officials say all 13 have been suspended without pay and the department is moving to fire them. The affidavit says the corrections officers helped members of the notorious black guerrilla family smuggle cell phones, marijuana, prescription pills, and cigarettes into the jail to sell to other inmates and make thousands of dollars.
00:03:50
Speaker
This situation enabled BGF members to continue to run their criminal enterprise within the jail in the streets of Baltimore. That's according to Steve Vogt from the FBI. Corrections officers...
00:04:02
Speaker
hid The indictment says the ringleader was inmate to he reportedly made $16,000 in one month from the smuggled contraband. the indictment says that the ringleader was inmate tovon white and he reportedly made sixteen thousand dollars in one month from the smuggled conramman Four corrections officers, including Jennifer Owens, Katera Stevenson, Shania Brooks, and Tiffany Linder were facing charges, allegedly fell pregnant to White while he was behind bars.
00:04:33
Speaker
charging Charging documents reveal Owens had Tavon tattooed on her neck, so that's the Jennifer Owens, and Katera Stevenson had Tavon tattooed on her wrist.
00:04:46
Speaker
The indictment seeks the forfeiture of $500,000 and other proceeds, including automobiles. White allegedly gave gifts to three corrections officers, Owen Stevenson and Brooks.
00:04:58
Speaker
ah Apparently, they received luxury cars and a diamond ring. Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional Services Gary Maynard says he was taking full responsibility. it becomes embarrassing for me when we expose ourselves and we participate in an investigation that's going to show what's going on in our jails that I'm not proud of.
00:05:18
Speaker
Stuff like this like baffles me a little bit. Well, sure, because like what the
Reflections on Jail Corruption
00:05:23
Speaker
heck? it's like everybody it was like everybody was drinking the water and it was something in the water that was making everybody stupid.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, i they they definitely, something was going on there. That's not the only one I've ever like tracked, but like that's one of the like bigger headlines that came out of it. I remember reading about like the family itself would make like its own series of episodes.
00:05:52
Speaker
And the the FBI, I think, has a vault page on them with related documents to all of this.
New York Cop Killer Case
00:06:02
Speaker
um I don't know 100% how many pages are in there, but like I'm sure you could go read about the black guerrilla family.
00:06:11
Speaker
There was another one out of, think it was out of New York.
00:06:17
Speaker
It was around the same time period, but ah this is a convicted cop killer in New York. It says, Ronnell Wilson, this is also from an old CBS News article,
00:06:29
Speaker
Convicted New York cop killer impregnates prison guard in plot to save own life. It says a federal corrections officer is accused of becoming pregnant with a convicted cop killer's baby as part of a bid to save his life.
00:06:44
Speaker
I'm not 100% sure how that works. I've got a baby so you can't me. I don't think that they discriminate between parents getting the death penalty.
00:06:54
Speaker
No. No, i don't I don't think that's a thing. Prosecutors say Nancy Gonzalez, 29, was arrested Tuesday morning at her home in Long Island, New York.
00:07:05
Speaker
Gonzalez is eight months pregnant with Ronald Wilson's baby. Wilson was convicted of murdering undercover detectives Rodney Andrews and James DeMoran. on Staten Island in New York in 2003. He was originally sentenced to death, but an appeals court overturned the death sentence for procedural reasons.
00:07:23
Speaker
Wilson is still facing another penalty phase trial where a jury will again decide whether he should face death or spend life behind bars. Sources tell 1010 Wins, which is a radio station up there,
00:07:36
Speaker
The pregnancy was part of a plot to help Wilson avoid the death penalty. According to the complaint, Gonzalez and Wilson had a sexual relationship between march and August of last year while she was guarding him.
00:07:47
Speaker
Gonzalez and Wilson carried on their affair in a, quote, vacant activity room while Gonzalez was supposed to be making her rounds, checking on inmates. Prosecutors said the two were caught on video talking for hours at her desk and in the kitchen.
00:08:02
Speaker
In addition, prosecutors allege that Gonzalez had carried on another relationship with a different inmate after breaking things off with Wilson. Prosecutors claimed that Gonzalez told the other inmate for whatever reason, i took a chance because I was so vulnerable and wanted to be loved. And now I'm carrying his child.
00:08:19
Speaker
Gonzalez, Gonzalez allegedly said she kind of got sucked into his world and why not give him a child as far as giving him some kind of hope, which is crazy to me.
00:08:30
Speaker
ah She faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted of engaging in a sexual relationship with an inmate. The Prison Rape Elimination Act became a huge deal a while back.
00:08:41
Speaker
I think it's less, most of the times, not all the time, but most of the time, it's less interesting to me when male guard gets goodup female inmate pregnant because that's terrible behavior that you sort of expect.
00:08:59
Speaker
if it's going to happen, like that's the direction I think. So I think it's, I think the reason these capture my headlines is because they're female guards and male inmates. Yeah. Either way though, it's really inappropriate, right? No, it's a hundred percent inappropriate. I didn't mean to think any of come across as appropriate.
00:09:16
Speaker
So you do remember the prosecutor, Jack Smith. Yeah. So he's the prosecutor in the Ronnell Wilson cases for years. Yeah.
00:09:27
Speaker
So the original one got thrown out, but they eventually come around to this ah the Supreme Court hearing some of this. And I think the district court had ruled that Ronnell Wilson was totally fine in terms of his capabilities to proceed and his intellectual capacity.
00:09:51
Speaker
But on March 15th, 2016, so a couple of years after these articles from 2013, The conclusion was made that Ronnell Wilson was mentally handicapped and that would make him ineligible for execution under the Eighth Amendment. ah Federal prosecutors later on, they decide they're not going to appeal this
Ronnell Wilson's Mental Handicap Ruling
00:10:11
Speaker
ruling. So he is a recent sentence of life in prison without parole.
00:10:14
Speaker
And as 2026. He is serving his sentence in the federal penitentiary in Springfield, Missouri. So I guess it kind of worked. to Maybe she didn't necessarily need to get pregnant because that can't go well. None of that is mentioned in here. like like They
Daisy Link's Trial and Errors
00:10:35
Speaker
don't mention the end of what happened there. She pled guilty. She got a year in prison for having sex with Ron Elm Wilson.
00:10:42
Speaker
I was able to find that elsewhere. Right, and so, yeah, that's dumb. Yeah, she gave birth to a son. But that is not really where I was headed with this episode.
00:10:53
Speaker
There was this case... And Brian inton has been covering it. You knew what talking about. the Yes. Okay. He's an interesting journalist to follow because he is he's like, he's like everybody else. He's scrapping to get as many followers as possible and to give out the best stories as possible. He's boots on the ground though. Yeah. He does. He does boots on the ground work.
00:11:15
Speaker
i had, so so he has like a video out that you can watch about this story we're going to tell that's It has a little more information than what we're going to put out there. It's maybe 30, 40 minute video.
00:11:28
Speaker
I had started following this weird case out of Florida. And I was following it from a different perspective before you sent me this article.
00:11:39
Speaker
ah The reason I was following it is because ah the person that's the defendant at the center of it all got a new trial, which I assume you already knew was going on.
00:11:51
Speaker
Right. So where I pick up in this story, I'm finding out about it for the very first time is a court TV article written by Lauren Silver back in February.
00:12:07
Speaker
And i think that yeah there it is the title is Daisy Link granted new murder trial after prosecution's error. That is sort of what piqued my interest in finding out a little bit about this case.
00:12:25
Speaker
So this article reads, a woman convicted of second degree murder has been granted a new trial after a judge found that a major mistake by prosecutors in closing arguments had prevented her from getting a fair trial.
00:12:39
Speaker
Daisy Link was convicted in October, 2025 of murdering her partner, Pedro Jimenez. Link never denied shooting Jimenez, but took the stand in her own defense to tell the jury that she was acting in self-defense when she pulled the trigger.
00:12:53
Speaker
On October 16th, when Alex Birgitta delivered the state's closing argument, he showed the jury a PowerPoint presentation containing four photographs that the prosecution intended to use during the trial, but those photographs had never been introduced as evidence.
00:13:09
Speaker
Brigitte used those photos in his closing argument to discredit Link's mother who testified for the defense about the couple's volatile relationship. The state conceded its improper conduct and apologized for the mistake after the case was submitted to the jury and the defense was permitted to make an additional one-minute argument to the jury to quote-unquote cure the error.
00:13:29
Speaker
So curing the error means the judge can't really come up with any other way to right the ship after something has happened. And they threw a Hail Mary pass thinking we can fix this.
00:13:44
Speaker
Unfortunately, with photographs and videos, it's very difficult to unring the bell, so to speak. Right. Did he tell them to disregard them? So Judge Lodi Jean ruled that the attempt to fix the issue was insufficient in her ruling ordering Lincoln a New Trial.
00:14:03
Speaker
um The state's contemporaneous apology and admission of error in using photographs not admitted into evidence is commendable. The damage had already been done. Not only was unadmitted evidence presented to the jury, but it was also coupled with argument used directly to discredit the defendant's self-defense claims and a key witness in the case, the defendant's mother.
00:14:23
Speaker
So what they did was the judge basically said, look, you can't ah consider these photos because we made an error. it's It's honestly like probably the point in time where you should be declaring a mistrial.
00:14:38
Speaker
Like, I hate to say that lightly, but like, that's like, it's so egregious when it's it's too late to put them into evidence because the defense to object. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah. And like, you're, you're making your closing arguments at that point. And like, it could have been resolved so easily by just bringing whoever it was that took the photos. You could just foundationally have admitted them.
00:15:05
Speaker
Not even publish them to the jury. I think it was just, I think it was overlooked, don't you think? i don't think they did the minimum on purpose. it's This is like like probably the textbook example of a technicality where somebody, wasn they weren't paying attention and, ah you know, everything evidentiary has to be entered into evidence before it can be considered by the jury.
00:15:29
Speaker
And this was used in, it sounded like the closing and it had an impact, right? Because it was it was it was prejudiced against the defense and a defense witness that had testified. So there was really no choice. You're right. ah It probably would have been the time to call a mistrial.
00:15:50
Speaker
i don't know what the deal was with the argument. I guess the judge just didn't want, I guess she wanted to see what happened in theory, because if, I guess if the jury had disregarded it and found her not guilty, like, it wouldn't have mattered.
00:16:08
Speaker
Right. So the office of the state's attorney had put out this Facebook post. I think you can still access it today. Like the data conviction occurred. Um, and it gets shared, but basically, uh, it, it's said something to the effect of today. Daisy link has been guilt found guilty of the second degree murder of her boyfriend, Pedro Jimenez. We thank the jury for their careful examination of all the facts and evidence presented by prosecutors during this trial I applaud the talented prosecutorial team of Assistant State's Attorney Alex Brigida, Jennifer DeLeon, and Jared Arcala for effectively bringing forth all the essential case elements that led to this verdict.
00:16:47
Speaker
That's according to Catherine Fernandez-Rundle, the state's attorney. I don't know why they do this. Like the back padding that they do on social media for police and prosecutorial districts makes me a little nuts.
00:16:59
Speaker
um It's like, we did our jobs today. You did your job. Can we have our orange slice and our trophy, please? um I don't, I don't like this nonsense, but that did lead me partly down the rabbit hole to where you ended up.
Social Media and Prosecutorial Conduct
00:17:16
Speaker
quicker than I did because it links underneath on this official office of the state's attorney page to a local 10.com article down in Florida.
00:17:27
Speaker
And if you click on this article, which I i did, it said, Juries in Miami rendered a verdict Thursday in the murder trial of 30-year-old homestead woman. Daisy Link was found guilty in the June 2022 killing of Pedro Jimenez, her partner of nine years, father of two children.
00:17:45
Speaker
leak also made international headlines in 2024 for becoming pregnant with another child by a fellow inmate while in jail. And that part raised my eyebrows a little bit.
00:17:56
Speaker
But it was just a sentence in this version that I read. Right. And it's just like like it's completely normal. That article closes out with some stuff that I wanted to to throw out there. at Her own defense claims she only intended to scare him away. And to be fair, like you know a little bit about the Jimenez murder at this point from the perspective of what happened to him, right?
00:18:16
Speaker
Right. It's a fluke. What happened to him is ah is a wound that in 90% of circumstances is survived. It just happened to clip his femoral artery.
00:18:28
Speaker
And that part is what he just you can't stop. like If you don't realize that you've hit a major blood vessel, you can't stop someone from dying. She says that she intended to scare him away.
00:18:42
Speaker
So according to the prosecutor, they said this is a toxic relationship with domestic violence going back and forth. And you know what Ms. Link did? She lit a match and lit that fire that night because she wanted this relationship to be over. And this was the best way to do it.
00:18:56
Speaker
Link's attorney, Ayyoban Tomas, counted that... Jimenez made it clear that he was going to break into that home, lock her out, and keep her away from her children, which he had no right to do Importantly, she has every right, every right to use deadly force to prevent him from doing that.
00:19:12
Speaker
That's not true. She doesn't have the the right to use deadly force against her domestic partner if he's going to lock the door. Okay, just to be clear.
00:19:24
Speaker
You have the right to use deadly force if you're going to die. Right, right. If you think you or someone around is going to die, you can counter with equivalent force, and that is, of course, self-defense and defense of others.
00:19:37
Speaker
ah Jurors who began deliberating around 2 p.m. rendered the verdict just before 4 p.m. could have considered lesser charges. So this is two hours of deliberation, and those photos probably helped them make up their mind.
00:19:49
Speaker
a Juror Kenan Bowie explained what led him to vote to convict Link. If he's running away, shot in the back, it doesn't seem like self-defense if he's running away. This is what Boy said after court is written.
00:20:00
Speaker
There was a lot that she lied about, a lot from the second she called 911. Two jurors who were initially on the fence ultimately joined the unanimous verdict to convict. didn't take them very long.
00:20:12
Speaker
And then it says, Link's unusual pregnancy was not discussed in court, and the child is now in the care of relatives. That's what gets us here today. i think it's fair to say, don't you?
00:20:24
Speaker
Yep. That shouldn't happen. Right. You and I talk a lot about different kinds of cases where we have questions. Usually our questions are more about the case, but that's not really...
00:20:38
Speaker
Like, that's not really the question that we have today in this particular set of circumstances, I guess, because it's not about the case. We wanted to know more about what was happening with this pregnancy that's mentioned like it's totally normal.
00:20:58
Speaker
Like I read a couple of like little clips of things at the top of the show about other cases where like, we just were all talking about it. It's very sensational.
Daisy Link's Jailhouse Insemination Scheme
00:21:09
Speaker
And people had like made the decision that like they were going to put up full press releases about those cases.
00:21:16
Speaker
Turns out, well, one I think this is one of the better articles. It's from last October. And it has that Brian in story, and it has Ashley Banfield from over at News Nation, Michael Ramsey. I know its like they're hit or miss with some of the things they get into. But this one, i thought it was interesting.
00:21:38
Speaker
ah They have a story that says jailhouse insemination scheme was ticket out, prisoner thought. Which is wild to me that it comes up that way. And that now, so that's October last year that they're talking about it. We're like way out in the future of this story, but also way past it all having happened. And like, we know that her second degree murder conviction is going to be overturned.
00:22:03
Speaker
And honestly, she's getting to the point in here where if they can get a manslaughter on the table, we probably don't have to go back to trial in this really dumb case. But this part of it and like the thinking that went into this is very confusing to me.
00:22:18
Speaker
did do you ever like look at something and go, a baby is the way out of this? I absolutely do not. um I can almost with, I mean, a very high degree of certainty say that a baby is in fact not a way out of anything. Yeah.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah. I used to joke about chewing gum babies. Like when I was growing up, a lot of people around me got, um, got married very young.
00:22:50
Speaker
And i I did not. i did like I have been married more times than most of my classmates and colleagues, but I did not get very married very young. And some of the folks around me are married at like 17, 18, 19 years old.
00:23:04
Speaker
To be fair, some of those people, they have been they have been together forever, and they will probably be together forever, and I totally get that. But some of those relationships did not last as long as people thought they would. They did not last forever. They lasted 10 years, 12 years.
00:23:20
Speaker
And I've been close with several people and like their decision. I hope they weren't unilateral decisions by one person or the other in the relationship. But some of them I feel like maybe kind of were.
00:23:34
Speaker
their decisions of how to fix their failing relationships like prior to their divorce, one of the things they land on is like, we're going to have a baby. So I call them chewing gum babies.
00:23:46
Speaker
I still don't it It started out as Band-Aid baby, like you were going to like slap a Band-Aid on your relationship in the form of a baby, and that's how you thought your relationship was going to be okay, because if we both had this other little person to love together, everything would be fine.
00:24:02
Speaker
That is absolutely not how that works. But the reason like I settled on chewing gum babies is because, have you ever got a Band-Aid, I guess, somewhere loose in your house or whatever, and it eventually ends up on the bottom of your shoe?
00:24:15
Speaker
It is the grossest thing to try and remove from like the bottom of your shoe. Oh, wow. This just gets worse and And you're trying to pull it off of there, and it feels like pulling chewing gum.
00:24:27
Speaker
And I feel like that's what some people have done in how they created their families. And I suppose there are a percentage of families that when they had this bandaid baby, everything was okay.
00:24:40
Speaker
But for the most part, you end up with this child who's going to be shuffled between two houses. Once you finally get divorced, I think it's like terrible that people have that approach to like creating a family, but I in my mind, I never went, oh, there's something worse than that, because I feel like it's like one of the worst things you can do to children.
00:25:06
Speaker
Oh, now I see where you're going. Placing the expectations of like on on like babies, children to like be the thing fixing your relationship that probably is not salvageable.
00:25:18
Speaker
That's terrible. Well, and it makes everything worse. And now you've included an innocent, right? Yeah. Yeah. You've now included an innocent person who like depends on like the, the giant people walking around to give it of the basic necessities in life.
00:25:35
Speaker
And to do that in the middle of a criminal case is horrible. I do not know how that is the thing that you think it's going to like solve your issues.
00:25:48
Speaker
So, Here's what News Nation had presented in all of this between Banfield and Ramsey. A Florida jail inmate conceived a baby from a male prisoner she never met face to face, told her mother that getting pregnant was her ticket to freedom and a financial settlement.
00:26:07
Speaker
And that made no sense to me. No, but I don't think it's going to make sense, but I'm going to i'm going to go through the motions of of what what they've published here because... I think the publication is sound. I just think the critical thinking skills of the subjects of the publication.
00:26:23
Speaker
wo Things did not work out that way for Daisy Link, who had a daughter in June 2024. The 30-year-old accused murderer has not left the Turner Guilford Knight Correction Center in Miami-Dade County since 2022.
00:26:36
Speaker
Officials who investigated Link's 2023 pregnancy determined it wasn't a jail staffer, but rather another inmate who was the father. Joan DePaz, a detainee also charged with murder, had established contact with Link through the air conditioning ventilation.
00:26:53
Speaker
They even exchanged photos and notes, including one message in which DePaz called Link his, this is their quote, not mine, snuggle-wuggle baby girl.
00:27:05
Speaker
yeah But how did the pregnancy happen? In one of their talks to the ventilation shaft, DePaz told Link he wanted to have a baby because he was facing a murder conviction and, quote, might never go home.
00:27:15
Speaker
So the two murder... So they're both murder defendants. They hatched a plan. Using a cable made partly of bedding material, DePaz located two floors above on several occasions...
00:27:33
Speaker
placed his semen inside rolled up saran wrap and passed it to Link, who inseminated herself with a yeast infection applicator. In a subsequent illegal phone call the inmates had, Link said she had missed her period.
00:27:51
Speaker
She was put on lockdown when jail officials discovered she was pregnant. And in an interview with WSVN TV, DePaz likened Link to the Virgin Mary, given the two had never touched each other.
00:28:04
Speaker
Link called her mother Christmas Day 2023 to break the news that she was carrying a baby. The older woman was incredulous.
00:28:15
Speaker
Incredulous is a little light. She says, you're full of shit. This is shocking. This is the mom on the phone call. I saw that on, I think it was, ah I guess, Brian Enten's segment. And, like, she was she was way more than incredulous. Yeah. She says, she says what do you mean? this is Daisy Link says, what do you mean? She says I'm going to sue them and get out. You know how much I can sue them for? This is all planned. I can get out now.
00:28:45
Speaker
her mother her mother Her mother responded and said, you know what you are? You're stupid.
00:28:54
Speaker
i don't disagree. I don't even know where they thought that. I can't even figure out how she thought that was ever going to work. Yeah. Every once in a while, I start reading about something and I try and take a positive approach.
00:29:11
Speaker
on this. I can't take a positive approach to... There's a couple things going on here. Like, people get really negative about, oh, two murderers having a baby. That's probably... It's not the best idea.
00:29:23
Speaker
um But generally speaking, i think DePaz, he ends up with this baby girl. They have a baby girl.
00:29:36
Speaker
So it goes to dad's mom. So grandma is raising the baby. Right. Now, he pleaded guilty to murder, and he got 25 years in state prison.
00:29:50
Speaker
So this is all happening and getting attention because it's right around the time of Daisy Link's trial.
00:29:58
Speaker
Go ahead. You've got something to say there. Well, all I was going to say is I got the impression ah that... the male in this situation thought he was possibly doing his mother a favor.
00:30:14
Speaker
ah I'm pretty sure his mother declined to be interviewed, but somewhere in and his head, he thought that his mom needed a replacement for him since he was going to be gone to jail for so long. Right.
00:30:29
Speaker
And i feel like that was, um, perhaps, a misdirected or misconstrued plan. Yeah. So if you go back through this and and like, this has been covered for a while. It's not brand new that it's on news nation. so News nation just brought a little bit of this to the forefront of the story. I went back and pulled a South Florida six NBC article from January 6th, 2024 by Trina Robinson down there.
00:30:59
Speaker
I felt like, It summed up some of the insanity of all this. The headline was Ludicrous. And the subtitle is Inmate's Mom Demands Probe After Daughter Becomes Pregnant in Miami-Dade Jail.
00:31:14
Speaker
It says a South Florida mother is demanding an investigation after her daughter, who is an inmate at the Turner-Guilford Correctional Center in Miami-Dade County, became pregnant while in jail. Daisy Link has been held there on a second degree murder charge since June 2022. She was also charged with battery by a detainee on a visitor or other detainee.
00:31:35
Speaker
Her mother, Josie Ramos, told NBC6 she was surprised by the news of the pregnancy. December the 25th, she confirms to me she's expecting. On Christmas Day, we were shocked.
00:31:46
Speaker
The inmate's mother said her daughter told her a 23-year-old prisoner with a long wrap sheet, including second-degree murder, whom she did not know, reportedly passed semen inside of a glove, so this is a different story than the saran wrap, three times through an air conditioning vent and the jail wall. "'I know this did not happen,' Ramos said. "'I heard what they said happened, which is this whole AC vent thing, which is ludicrous and ridiculous.'" Link's attorney told NBC6, the Miami-Dade Corrections and Rehabilitation Department, said the client got pregnant by some unconventional method while Link and the other inmate were both at TGK. He has since been moved to Metro West.
00:32:28
Speaker
The care, safety, and rehabilitation of all those in our custody remains our top priority. While there is no evidence of sexual battery against our inmate at this time, the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy are currently under an active investigation.
00:32:42
Speaker
Link is three months pregnant. But Ramos worries not only how her daughter got pregnant, but if she is safe in getting the proper medical care because she's being held in the jail's mental health ward.
00:32:54
Speaker
I want to see if someone in the courthouse can see this and let her out so she can get proper prenatal medical care because you don't come out of a jail impregnated by anyone while you're still waiting for a trial.
00:33:05
Speaker
ah So the corrections department told NBC6 that Pregnant inmates receive timely and appropriate prenatal care, specialized ups obstitution services ah indicated by the CHS, and they receive time for postpartum recovery.
00:33:24
Speaker
Ramos said she has demanded an internal affairs investigation in how her daughter became pregnant and if she is receiving adequate care for her and her baby.
00:33:34
Speaker
Okay. That's about the worst thing that you can do as a parent. Well, I mean, she already knows how her daughter became pregnant. She said it in the phone call. Yeah, she just thinks her daughter has something seriously wrong with her and like, is making it up.
00:33:53
Speaker
Well, sure. And honestly, I don't blame her because it's kind of unbelievable, right? It's completely unbelievable.
00:34:03
Speaker
Do you think she got pregnant from the guy in the AC van or she got pregnant from a guard and that's the decision No, they did a DNA test. Right. They're sure that it is, in fact, the inmate's um child. And so I don't know. But what I will say is it seemed highly unlikely that they could have come into physical contact ah without somebody knowing.
00:34:33
Speaker
Well, so it almost works. did you Have you followed like how how the motions go down? like it almost gets her out Oh, no. i i Yeah, no, I didn't follow that. Okay, so back in February of 2024, Elizabeth Chuck over at NBC News, she published an article, Judge Postpone's Decision Over Whether to Transfer Florida Inmate Who Became Pregnant While Incarcerated to House or Arrest.
00:35:05
Speaker
It said that Daisy Link is about 19 weeks pregnant but has been in jail custody since June 2022. The circumstances leading to her pregnancy at this time are not clear.
00:35:16
Speaker
So the judge postponed the decision Wednesday over whether to transfer a Florida inmate who became pregnant while she was incarcerated from the county jail to house arrest pending the release of medical and corrections records.
00:35:28
Speaker
Daisy Link, 28, so couple years back. um She had been in custody in Miami-Dade since June 2022. On Christmas Day, she called family members.
00:35:38
Speaker
and told them she was pregnant. This is according to her sister, that's who they interview here, Crystal Barreto. The circumstances that led to the pregnancy are unclear, and they have prompted an investigation by the Miami-Dade Corrections and Rehabilitation Department. Link is awaiting trial on a charge of second-degree murder, which her attorney, Marlene Montaner, says arose from a domestic violence incident during which Link feared for her life.
00:36:04
Speaker
She had been held without bond at the correctional center, which houses both male and female inmates. And at the time, she didn't have a trial date, which is how we are having this hearing. So at a hearing, her attorneys asked State Circuit Judge Lodegene,
00:36:24
Speaker
To reconsider a previous order denying link pretrial release, which I don't agree with keeping second-degree murder suspects in a case like this behind bars with no bond whatsoever is dumb. um because you know what happened. It's not like there's some serial murderer or they were stalking in a domestic situation. You have a situation where a gun came out and someone died, and the state is not moving forward on first degree, they're moving forward on second degree.
00:36:50
Speaker
That typically indicates that while it happened, it's maybe it's maybe not an accident, but it's definitely not premeditated. So other people are probably not in danger.
00:37:02
Speaker
So... The previous order denied ah Daisy Link a pretrial release, saying she was about 19 weeks pregnant but had received prenatal vitamins yeah in only 19 days of her pregnancy.
00:37:16
Speaker
She suggested that Link could live with her sister under home confinement with electronic monitoring instead of being behind bars. And this is something a good defense attorney should do every time. And that is she was raising, there's an alternative to her being incarcerated and my client's baby's health is at risk, which,
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah, to some degree that's true, but it really is kind of a Hail Mary. Link answered several questions from the judge, agreeing when she was asked whether she consented to have her medical records introduced in court. More medical records dating to the start of her pregnancy will be turned over to the prosecution and corrections records documenting Link's requests for health treatment in jail will be turned over to the judge, who is going to review them to see whether they have evidentiary value or could be used by the defense.
00:38:02
Speaker
ah The attorney said that Link's records show that she asked jail officials for a pregnancy test as early as November 7th was not granted one till late December. She said that Link had also asked for and been denied Gatorade to help with dehydration from morning sickness.
00:38:17
Speaker
ah The department themselves did not immediately respond to a request or comment on the allegations. But a spokesperson for the department said that pregnant inmates receive timely and appropriate prenatal care and that the department confirmed Link's pregnancy after a thorough medical exam. But it also has not commented on who may have been pregnant in her. Which we put that at at the top of this so you understood what had happened. But like you have over two years here where it kind of feels like what she said she was trying to do might come true. Oh, yeah, i guess so.
00:38:49
Speaker
They said, while there is no evidence of
Legal Consequences and Public Reaction
00:38:51
Speaker
sexual battery against an inmate at this time, the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy were under active investigation. So, like, you could kind of almost get there, were it not for the fact that you're both trapped in jail on murder charges and the state has both of your DNAs.
00:39:07
Speaker
Well, right, and she didn't even... i saw the, i guess, body cam. I'm not really sure what was filming, but I saw, like, where they...
00:39:19
Speaker
were each brought in and questioned about the situation. Cause she said straight up, this is what happened. and I'm not entirely sure that she had the option to like try and bring some sort of criminal action. but she was like, no, I did this to myself. What are you talking about?
00:39:40
Speaker
And like, she was in complete agreement with doing it. Right. Yeah. yeah And I thought that was interesting, but she never tried to make it anything that it wasn't, right?
00:39:53
Speaker
She was very honest and upfront. It's not a believable story. And so because it's not believable, it seemed like she was lying, right? Right. Except that wasn't the case. ah I think, I don't even know to this day that they've seen each other face to face, which is crazy.
00:40:13
Speaker
ah but I don't find it necessarily responsible. And ah it's it's one of the most insane things I've ever heard.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah. And I thought it was kind of, um yeah, I feel bad for this baby, but obviously somebody wanted this baby in terms of like the baby has a home. and Right. And i feel like I feel like, and you can tell me if I'm wrong because you're a guy, but I feel like he thought maybe he wasn't going to get to have any children.
00:40:47
Speaker
um yeah that's I think he ultimately was like, you get these feelings like you're disappointing people. And if you're a young man in prison who is obviously like going to end up taking some responsibility for a murder charge. And you know that, say see, I think they said he was 23, 24, something like that. If you know that you're not getting out of prison by the time that you're 50, the likelihood is it's like, even if your parents are in the best health, like they're going to be late in life by the time you get out and find somebody and have a relationship. And hopefully it's somebody young enough to have a child with.
00:41:27
Speaker
You know what i mean? Right. And I guess he saw the fleeting. um He saw the writing on the wall. And to me, I mean, he convinced.
00:41:40
Speaker
I don't even know what to think about any of this. I could i could really deconstruct the situation by saying, like, your DNA mixed with somebody who was willing to do this.
00:41:51
Speaker
So, I mean So, I mean, you know... the jailhouse equivalent of a one-night stand in terms of genetic possibilities. Is that what you're saying?
00:42:04
Speaker
I'm saying that when you have a child, it actually, you know, it happens in every single case. Get half your DNA, around half your DNA from your mom and half your DNA from your dad. And so you should always look for things about a person...
00:42:24
Speaker
that you can tolerate. Right. Yeah. Um, and I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but like, it's not the smartest decision by either one of them. Right. Correct.
00:42:39
Speaker
And so that DNA is getting mixed together and making a child. I'm just saying, i probably shouldn't be so negative. It's really none of our business, I guess.
00:42:51
Speaker
and Well, they kind of made it our business when they made it a part of something going on here. I mean, it got a lot of news coverage in different little pieces, but this video that you had sent over to me looks like the only place where everybody's kind of looked into it to make sure a proper investigation had been done. I think that's what they're doing.
00:43:07
Speaker
I think they were really wanting to know, like, is this the true story, this air vent debacle? Or is it like a guard being covered up for her? Right. And they did do a, dna I do know they did a DNA test and ah it was, it was, the parents were the parents. And obviously the mom was the mom because she gave birth and that's kind of obvious when that happens.
00:43:28
Speaker
But it, they had looked back and like, they literally never crossed paths. And like all of the The guards and anybody who could have had any hand in that happening, they were, you know, dumbstruck by it because how did that happen? But ultimately, I think there was no action to be taken because, like, they did this on their own accord. ah I think it maybe they faced some contraband type.
00:44:00
Speaker
Yeah. ah acey I don't know, charges, accusations, whatever. Possession of i got I mean, possession of bodily fluid. I don't even know what that would be. yeah Well, they're not allowed to move things through the ventilation system.
00:44:18
Speaker
Correct. ah So, regardless of what it is, that's you're not supposed to do that. um And that came up as a problem. But as far as her inserting...
00:44:32
Speaker
what he was sending her and ending up pregnant. Like she did it to herself. Right. Yeah. And I wasn't initially, it doesn't seem like she was trying to get a like a civil suit against them for money.
00:44:46
Speaker
ah which is what she told her mom. I wasn't really sure of that. Um, I didn't understand that aspect cause literally the prison didn't do anything. Right.
00:44:56
Speaker
Um, I don't know that, I mean, I don't know you could find them liable. i am sure the right kind of tort lawyer could do something with this. I just don't know what right this second.
00:45:10
Speaker
I guess I was just surprised because I thought she would have a different story having told her mom that. Yeah. But it never came up. like It was never the case that you know she tried to allege anything that would possibly make the prison somehow liable. So I just wasn't sure. I don't know. i feel like it's it's a very interesting case.
00:45:35
Speaker
ah Yeah, it is. And it came up. So I know people covered this other one. I was going to i was going to tell you this story because it it just happened. This had popped up. I think a ah week ago, what is like, what is Friday's date this last week? The 21st.
00:45:54
Speaker
Okay. So I think it was the 14th. The 22nd. I'm sorry. 22nd.
00:46:01
Speaker
So it was minus 7, 15th. I saw this as like being passed around. and I know it's turned into an article since then. But what I saw was written by Madeline Lippey. She had written it on May 20th. Unfortunately, I don't know. I have a printout of it that somebody gave me. I don't know where it was actually published.
00:46:18
Speaker
Because I just have like the reader form. But it is a prisoner and pregnancy related. So I thought I would throw that in here. okay The title of this an article just says how our health care and carceral system failed Samantha Randazzo.
00:46:35
Speaker
It says on Friday, 33-year-old Samantha Randazzo, who's nine months pregnant, was awaiting her arraignment in a New York City courtroom for a drug possession charge when her water broke.
Pregnancy in the Justice System
00:46:48
Speaker
She gave birth to a baby boy in open court. Public defenders and legal advocates, and there's there's they're saying legal aid was in there and Brooklyn defenders were in there. They say that Samantha Randazzo was at times shackled while in labor. The New York Police Department and court personnel deny this claim. My guess is she's like they don't understand what they're saying because if she's giving birth and her water is broken, then there's a chance like in between there she was in shackles during her arraignment. Yeah.
00:47:18
Speaker
um probably was actually in labor, even though it may not have been in labor, which is what most people think of. So it's probably both things are true. The and NYPD says it does not it did not know that Samantha Randazzo was pregnant at the time of her arrest as she was, quote, wearing baggy clothes.
00:47:35
Speaker
Their formal statement suggests that Samantha later informed officers she was experiencing a withdrawal from drugs, only divulging that she was pregnant when she was at the police station. Officers then brought Randazzo to Coney Island Hospital where she was admitted.
00:47:49
Speaker
and Details of her treatment are unknown for privacy purposes, but New York City Health and Hospitals, which operates Sconey Island, has not commented on this. ah Samantha Randazzo was discharged, transported by officers to court for arraignment, where her labor either began or intensified. The and NYPD's baggy clothes defense should easily unravel through basic police procedure. Yeah. know and you search someone incident to arrest, ah you would probably have realized that there's a full term pregnant baby belly there.
00:48:20
Speaker
um so that would and I mean, unless they just have terrible search procedures. well I was going to say, like, I'm not even sure. I don't even know what to do with that. Cause like, what if she wasn't pregnant?
00:48:34
Speaker
Right. it's and you're You're right. but um, the The point the author is making here is that it's likely that Randazzo's body was touched in some way between the arrest and the transportation to the hospital and back to court that they should have known.
00:48:51
Speaker
um Whether she's actually in withdrawal or not or already in labor or some combination of the two, like you definitely could see there being some overlapping symptoms, but we're not going to know that.
00:49:04
Speaker
We just know that she's discharged from the hospital, sent back to court, And to be honest with you, whether she's in full withdrawal or labor, either one of those things should have given enough attention to her condition that like the hospital maybe we didn't shuffle her off for arraignment. And I'm not saying she's in the right either because clearly she's gotten herself into a situation that requires an arrangement, an arraignment.
00:49:31
Speaker
But um I guess it's the arrangement arraignment or the arraignment arrangement at this point. Samantha Randazzo's pain and discomfort as a result of her pregnancy was treated by every person she encountered that day as and accessory to possible drug use. The author is very upset about this, and I would be too.
00:49:49
Speaker
ah Notably, only the and NYPD has commented on the alleged withdrawals. The f police say they knew that Randazzo was heavily pregnant by the time they brought her to court in cuffs. In a post-COVID era, arrangements are conducted from hospital beds by DDO with some frequency, especially with compelling circumstances. In fact, like they don't even bring most people over from holding cells or jail, where I'm at.
00:50:10
Speaker
But the and NYPD could have issued a desk appearance ticket, quasi-discretionary written order to appear in court that does not require them to be taken into custody once they discovered she was pregnant, um especially for something like a simple possession.
00:50:25
Speaker
But the system did not see a mother suffering. It saw criminal. Randazzo's distress was visible only as a predictable consequence of addiction and itself a disease too often dismissed as a choice. So the hospital sent her on her way. The officers took her back to jail. The court called her case. And when Randazzo did go into labor in front of a room full of suits, robes, and badge numbers, she deserved the proper of medical care and human dignity that every birthing person is entitled to, regardless of drug use.
00:50:55
Speaker
The culture of dehumanization present Randazzo's case is far from an aberration. as a public defender, i witnessed firsthand how the state plays claim to the bodies of women, rendering them invisible, incriminating, and sometimes both. And some states, such as Tennessee sex workers, disproportionately women, face an aggravated prostitution felony if they are HIV positive.
00:51:17
Speaker
In women's prisons and immigration detention facilities across the country, female inmates are forced to strip naked and remove tampons so that guards, mostly male, can search for contraband.
00:51:28
Speaker
And then of course, are the myriad states fighting to deprive pregnant women of vital care, casting criminal charges across state lines as providers send patients medications.
00:51:42
Speaker
Randazzo's case also surfaces a version of pregnancy degradation and policing that hides behind child welfare concerns and platitudes like it's for her own good. There's more to this, but, um, I thought it was interesting that this woman gave birth in a courtroom.
00:51:59
Speaker
Well, that's what I was going to say. Like, forget being shackled. Like why didn't they get her to the hospital? Yeah. I mean, obviously she's, she's here for some sort of drug penalty.
00:52:12
Speaker
Um, Whether they've, but I don't know if they're just an arraignment. I don't know how far along we are that we need to be holding this woman at all. But definitely like the the taking her to the hospital then taking her back to court is a terrible idea.
00:52:28
Speaker
Well, right. And I guess I'm a little confused by what exactly is happening, but. she had a baby in the courtroom. Well, i I realize that. I guess I'm just a little confused as to why that happened. However, i don't know that anybody that was involved in any of that wanted any of that to happen.
00:52:49
Speaker
Oh, no. i don't think I don't think that's what was happening. i think i think that's the reason that this particular public defender has kind of latched on to that we weren't paying attention. it's because So here's what happens in those situations.
00:53:02
Speaker
And it's very different than the Daisy Link thing in some ways. But I wasn't going to drag you like too far. um It's because the court is never in a hurry to do a damn thing.
Critique of Court System Delays
00:53:16
Speaker
Ever. Ever. Police are never in a hurry to do anything. Courts, judges, they're not in a hurry. Yeah, it's kind of alarming, isn't it? Yes, it's very alarming, actually. like i up For what they're dealing with, right, in court, it seems like everything should be in a hurry. And perhaps that's why nothing is, right?
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, nothing nothing's in a hurry at all. it's um Everything moves at a snail's pace. i Ultimately, the reasons they will give you if you ask someone in charge why it moves at a sales pace is because they want to do it correctly.
00:53:55
Speaker
That's not true anymore. It's because like there's just no way to get all those moving parts in one place at one time and have it make any sense whatsoever. that's what That's what's really going on.
00:54:08
Speaker
yeah I personally would not want to give birth in a courtroom. Yeah. Well, no, but there is an element of that that, like, literally nobody can control. And so my thought would be when her water broke, as long as, i mean, that would be obvious unless somebody thought she just peed herself, right? Right. so her as long as from the time her water broke until...
00:54:38
Speaker
like they were pushing towards like this woman is in labor, we need to do something. I would say nobody did anything wrong because you, you, there aren't any signs your water is going to break. It just breaks.
00:54:52
Speaker
Correct. And so you might have like false labor before then, but like once your water breaks, you're in labor and, but it happens all of a sudden. And so, i mean, she could have,
00:55:08
Speaker
possibly not been a aware that it had broken. Maybe she thought, you know, that what is this? But I'm just saying it. I don't see anybody saying like, let's have this woman go through this massive indignity of giving birth in a courtroom. Right.
00:55:25
Speaker
They clearly went somewhere to have her checked out and they point out Coney Island hospital. So that means somebody recognizes something was going on with her. took her to a medical professional.
00:55:38
Speaker
Everybody just kind of assumed that it was the drugs that she had been charged with. And we end up with her, you know, going through an arraignment. Like, look, if it if you don't have this person on some serious felony, I'm being very serious when I say this or I don't even think you keep them on a misdemeanor at any kind.
00:55:57
Speaker
If you've got someone in a medical emergency, your responsibility should be to leave them with medical professionals. Right. Even, like, unless it's, like, some kind of serial murderer or something. I guess i guess what I'm not sure of is, like, she could have gone from not being in labor at all, even when she went to the be checked out, right? Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying, like, it could have happened so fast. Right. Like, she was completely normal. And then and if her water broke, that's what happened. Because your water breaks...
00:56:29
Speaker
and you're in labor, but like, you don't feel like your water's going to break. It just happens. Right. And so if she wasn't, there were no, there were no symptoms to be exhibited is my point. Um, so if she didn't have anything else going on,
00:56:49
Speaker
it there wasn't an emergency until there was, right? Which actually, usually that's not even an emergency. Your water breaks and you still typically have... You're just moving along towards... The final thing is the baby's going to be born. It's not an emergency as much as it just needs attending.
00:57:07
Speaker
Well, I think that like there is... i don't know. There's something about the... The fluid, but I'm pretty sure it takes a really long time to leak all the the fluid out.
00:57:20
Speaker
But whatever. um I'm just saying, like, i i guess I need more details. I'm not sure. Like, was she saying she was in terrible pain or something like that?
00:57:33
Speaker
i don't know. You'll have to call and ask her. I'm sure she's out of jail now. They just kept it long enough for her to have the baby in the courtroom. Yeah. What a story that kid has, right? Right, yeah. Like, I popped out on the bench on the defendant's side of a New York City courtroom surrounded Brooklyn defenders.
00:57:51
Speaker
I mean, yeah. just I don't have a lot of details on this. i just said, so you had sent me... Kind of the Daisy Link story. And I had been looking at it. and I think you might have been looking at it in parts and we were deciding what to record. And that popped up having just occurred like within a week.
00:58:12
Speaker
And I was like, well, that's a sign that that's what we're going to put on. So I think I texted you back. You had another idea. And I was like that and that. we're going to work on those two. Yeah, no, it was perfect. I agree. like i I think it's newsworthy. i mean, it's crazy that that happened. I'm just not so sure that there's any blame to be had here.
00:58:31
Speaker
no no no, no, no. I just, i look, it came from a relatively self-righteous or righteous on the behalf of others, public defenders writing.
00:58:42
Speaker
When I understand that. She might know something that would make it more of a travesty, but like, to me, like this could have very easily just happened. Yeah.
00:58:54
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. I mean, i think I think she had a reason to tell the story and didn't maybe didn't have as much of a hook as she wanted to in the moment. I don't have any more details on it. And honestly, I'm glad that I don't because that protects that woman's privacy.
00:59:08
Speaker
The fact that I know she had a baby and went to the hospital is more than enough. I think that I sort of agree with your stance on like, there's absolutely, there's very little reason. And like, what, what'd you say? Eight and a half months pregnant woman should be eight to half or nine months pregnant. There's no reason for her to be incarcerated very long unless it's like a very serious felony.
00:59:34
Speaker
Yeah. Like murder or something. Right, because it's and's you know it's kind of where we started our episode, but it's a very expensive process to keep a pregnant woman and to make sure that the baby's okay. But like different parts of our judicial system try to do that.
00:59:49
Speaker
like They try and make sure it happens. and They do put resources towards it. I personally don't like the idea of pregnant people giving birth behind bars. That's just me. I think there's better ways to spend money and time than trying to teach corrections officers how to do things like that and how to get them to the right doctors and whatnot. I think it's better.
01:00:11
Speaker
ah i think it's better that they be kept out to the last possible minute and only be detained once the baby is delivered safely to the world. Right. But, you know, obviously they have to be treated the same because otherwise that would be an incentive. Right.
01:00:29
Speaker
Oh, i'm yeah, I'm not trying to incentivize serious felonies at all. Obviously, it doesn't work very well when you get your semen through the air vents, which is baffling. that that just takes a stake. I've never heard of a case like that. Have you?
01:00:47
Speaker
i mean, I started with the types of cases. I've heard of like i've heard some weird inseminations. That one, through the air vents, without ever having met for the purpose of getting out of jail, I have not heard of it told so plainly as that video had to tell it.
01:01:04
Speaker
Right, exactly. And I thought it was interesting because that's what they chose to, you know, contraband or whatever.
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Speaker
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01:02:53
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