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Remake, Reboot, Retrospective
0 Playsin 7 hours
Ben & Jess talk about the various ways retro games of all stripes are being reproduced these days, and what adventure games they think should get that treatment.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
Recommended
Transcript
A Book Comes to Life
00:00:24
Speaker
Quest Quest Quest
00:00:32
Speaker
Going down the quest route. Off we go, down low three. We get the western quest of the tree.
00:00:42
Speaker
Now we are at the library, pulling out books. What do they say? This book is actually alive. It bit off one of my fingers.
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm in an ambulance.
Songs with Stories and Consistent Content
00:01:00
Speaker
I don't know what's going to happen. I'm parting to.
00:01:26
Speaker
So a book bit off your finger. ah Yeah. Well, you know, like, ah yeah, that's the story. You know, a lot of songs have ah stories. Yes. And, you know, also those have been the lyrics of that song.
00:01:45
Speaker
the whole time the year and a half or so that we've been doing this podcast that has always been those have always been the lyrics much like yeah star trek star trek yeah gene roddenberry yeah you gotta write those lyrics so you get that uh sweet publishing cash um which is yeah i mean you're you're always you always say to me it's like i model my career on one person it's gene roddenberry yeah and Here we are again. The great bird of the galaxy has taken light here on Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. are you doing, Jess?
00:02:19
Speaker
I am doing pretty well, Ben. How are you? I'm pretty good. But you know what? And I think this has happened before other podcasts. Like, I think this has been a subject of ah our our our nonsense chatter.
00:02:35
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. we to this. That the listeners love. You know what? I was looking... and Some, some listeners do love it. Wow. There you go. But, um, you know, I think I ate i ate too much of my dinner because i was, i was at, I was having leftovers, which I know your feelings about leftovers. They all need to rehash that, but especially if it's hash.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, and there wasn't enough for a full other meal. And so I was like, well, I have to eat all the rest of this.
00:03:11
Speaker
Because I'm just not, it like, this is dinner. I'm not going to snack on this ah pasta in a cauliflower sauce that made. So I'm just going to eat all of it.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah. And now i and now my my my tummy hurts. Yeah, you know, I'm coming into the podcast tonight with a bad case of burrito
Review of 'Bad Happy Burrito'
00:03:36
Speaker
belly.
00:03:36
Speaker
We have. Wow, we're really hitting. Yeah, this is bad. Yeah, I mean, we've got a new burrito place here in town and it is fabulous. There's a new burrito yeah place in town.
00:03:48
Speaker
It's opened ah by our ah James Beard award-winning ah chef that works at Charleston. This is his quick service burrito experience.
00:03:59
Speaker
And I have to tell you, it's a good burrito. what's what's ah Let's look this up. Let's look at the menu. What's the name of this place? Bad Happy Burrito. Bad Happy Burrito. Not a huge fan of the name, but... No, it's a little tough.
00:04:14
Speaker
It has some nice branding. They have like a guy logo that kind looks like the dude on the front of the hitchhiker's guide. It's the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy with little devil horns. Yeah, that's exactly what they've got going on. They're now hiring.
00:04:28
Speaker
Ooh, you know, that's not bad. right, so let's take a look here. ah breed like all right And listeners, don't dox me with this. i'm I'm going to say that the ah the the list here, website,
00:04:45
Speaker
is it just if you go to this website i there isn't like it just uh drives you to either fill out an application to work there or order online and order online so you see a menu but the the the uh menu is not particularly descriptive no it is and it doesn't do it justice like there's cluck and roll but i don't know what's in that it could be any any poultry Let me tell you where they really mess up, Ben.
00:05:14
Speaker
Uh-huh. Like, it's wonderful. First of all, they say it's wonderful. It's maybe one of the best burritos I've ever eaten. Highest praise. All right. But they have silly names for a lot of their components. Everything is silly name. That aren't always described in the menu. Like, even if you're- Shrimp shady.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, let me tell you, like, they have something called Oscar rice and money rice. Okay. they don't just differentiate anywhere on the menu what that is. They have good-ass beans, which are simply pinto beans, but they call them good-ass beans. Are they?
00:05:47
Speaker
I mean, they're just, yeah, there's pinto beans, crazy corn, happy slaw, um, red O's, um,
Overeating and Local Food Experiences
00:05:55
Speaker
I don't know. All right. Well, going on their, their Facebook page that provides an actual menu. Okay. Now you're working with So, so here we go.
00:06:06
Speaker
the, cluck and roll burrito, uh, chicken, Oscar rice. We don't, we don't know what that means. uh good ass beans ass with a at at symbol yeah um cheese uh salsa salsa roja uh cilantro lime crema always good guac uh which it just doesn't have a silly name for its guac other than just guac it's just guac diced onions and cilantro perfectly fine
00:06:37
Speaker
uh i'm trying to see here yeah really under so the sides i don't care for this uh are are the they're they're called side pieces e e yes don't love it either wait do you see what the drinks are called a few pages later hey this really bothers me
00:07:03
Speaker
drinks drinks with three a's uh in the mail drinks and then you have boozy drinks um beyond that yeah i mean these parts aren't good i'm telling you the burrito flawless flawless burrito you know it's just one of those things you you can yuca and do here's the thing you could just do you can Yes, you don't need an end You don't have to. So this is how this is to to explain to the listener. This is how it's spelled. The Yuka and do it.
00:07:36
Speaker
You are wait, right? Y-U-C-A hyphen A-N. No, we don't. We don't need the the the hyphen A-N. Like it doesn't have confidence in, in the pun there, you can, and do it.
00:07:52
Speaker
You can do it. Just, just make it. You can do it. Don't have the hyphen. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. I mean, and I assume that's supposed to be like the Rob Schneider, happy Gilmore reference, right? Like the, yeah, yeah. You, yeah but you can do it. yeah Yeah. And that's actually, I order that only I substitute the, uh, Yuka fries, uh, for, uh,
00:08:15
Speaker
uh for chicken so i'm doing like chicken money well i gotta say this is this is a this is the best looking one for sure yeah uh uh yucca fries which have you ever had ah like a san diego like or like a california burrito that has fries in it because those are have yeah sometimes you can fries think especially if you're in a place maybe where there isn't a lot of yuca fries flowing in and out of the uh of the economy can be a little starchy for me there yeah i mean they're always it yeah yeah it's a very starchy um so yuca fries or ah you can substitute it with chicken uh money rice which i don't know what that is good good ass beans queso
00:08:56
Speaker
So interesting. Queso, comma, cheese. Yes. you So we've got queso and cheese. Yes. Happy slaw, pico,
00:09:10
Speaker
pickled red o's e pickled jalapenos which i will not yeah don't care for that either don't care for that it's abbreviated in a way i would choose not to yeah uh use your look this up yourself for not uh cactus that's fun habanero honey And charred poblano ranch.
00:09:33
Speaker
This sounds great. It's really good, Ben. We got get you here. We got to get you here. I'll take you to bad happy burrito. I'll show you the mountains. Here's what I'll, here's what I'll, I'll, I'll say to you.
00:09:46
Speaker
is that these prices are comparable to prices that I would have in the big city of Chicago, Illinois that I live in. but Yes. the this So for this to be like West Virginia prices, like this has to be absurd, right? Like this is, these are like, this is these are $14 burritos. Not, yeah i mean, yeah, don't, don't make it look like I'm Mr. Moneybags over here. but I know that you're the richest man in town. And you live in a mansion. I do. And I have a yacht, yeah but I don't like to like broadcast that because I like to think of myself as a man of the people. um yeah But I will say, let me, let me give this, you when I was recently in a different big city, when I was in New York city,
00:10:31
Speaker
I was bowled over by how inexpensive things seemed comparatively to what I expected. I think food prices in the heartland, in the flyover states, have simply increased to close the gap with big city food prices. was just like, I can eat for the same price in New York City that I can in West Virginia, and there's no way that should be possible. yeah that That doesn't seem right. What I will say is that the the the cost of drinks is less. I'm sorry, cost of what?
00:11:06
Speaker
Drinks. There go. I wasn't what you're talking about for a second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, like, uh, we've got like the, uh, a frozen espresso martini. That's nine bucks. Not bad. Margarita on the rocks for the same price.
00:11:21
Speaker
have a bunch of, uh, $5 drafts, which I mean, Modelo, $5 draft, which is the best beer they have available there. Um, which I also believe is the best-selling beer in Chicago.
00:11:33
Speaker
butdet No. Modella's not bad. i read that's I fuck with Modella. But anyway, so you got did you get any side pieces?
00:11:46
Speaker
ah yeah sad pieces I did not. We did get um an order of churros or a dessert. Let me tell you, i dislike more churros than I enjoy. I eat a fair number of churros and most of the time I'm disappointed churros. Yeah, yeah. Outside of one churro that I had in San Antonio a couple of years ago from just like a street side vendor with a deep fryer. um These, that's how you get churros. Yeah, these these are probably the best churros I've had other than that.
00:12:21
Speaker
very good churros you have to go west virginia to get good churros yeah that's that's what they say i have to there is a place not too far from me that uh like makes that that is quite proud of their churros i should i should try out see if they're as good as the the west virginia ones i hear so much about here's the question yeah you're driving through west virginia got a bad happy burrito Here's here's a question.
00:12:43
Speaker
um Under two share, whipsy, maybe. What is on a Frisbee? They literally serve your food on a branded Frisbee with their logo on it. So the Frisbee serves as your plate and you get to keep it afterwards and take home. Oh, you get keep the Frisbee.
00:13:04
Speaker
I see. Okay. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, no the first time we went, my daughter ordered her meal on a Frisbee, and now we have a Bad Happy Burrito Frisbee.
00:13:14
Speaker
It's got the little knockoff. Yeah, I mean. Hitchhiker's Guide guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the way he is styled inside the restaurant is as a graffiti tag. Like, all the walls are decorated in it's and graffiti. It's got... There's like some, there's some vague hip hop references in a lot of the, it's not consistent though, which is what bothers me. Like they have the De La Burrito Bowl, which is a De La Soul joke. But again, putting burrito in their ruins, it just be the De La Bowl to make that read as De La Soul. Big Papa, obviously you got some hip hop. A Tribe Called Queso isn't too bad. Although it sounds like something you come up with on a comedy show if you're trying to come up with wacky names for food.
00:13:57
Speaker
it feels a little it's a little forced it's a little forced hey they added on their instagram they've added a glossary here's what oscar rice is thank you right i need to know this Oscar rice is Latin seasoned rice cooked in chicken stock with onions and bell peppers.
00:14:15
Speaker
Gotcha. Okay. And then money rice is cilantro lime rice, vegan, good ass beans. Uh, just good ass black beans, vegan. Oh, it says street corn off the cob mixed with diced onions, et cetera.
00:14:32
Speaker
Uh, happy and then and then they also explain what a pupusa is which you should know since we don't need to have yeah that's one of the stages of a caterpillar's metamorphosis into a butterfly damn i would love to have a pupusa right now oh yeah yeah like i a fucking good pupusa And yeah, and it's fun to it's fun to say.
00:14:59
Speaker
It's fun to say pupusa. Pupusa. Have you had a pupusa? I haven't. Have you had... Oh, so you haven't. You should have their pupusas. Give it a try.
00:15:10
Speaker
Report back. We need we got to report back here. um Yeah, let's see there Okay, so they're posting some stuff like just yesterday. So, ah yeah, I'm trying to think. Have I had any...
00:15:24
Speaker
Interesting meals of note. As I said, i ah made that. I made a bangers and mash last night. Oh. i And like made a gravy out of some like a beer based gravy for it.
00:15:44
Speaker
It's quite good. but I'm trying to think, did I have any interesting meals out ah recently and i I can't think of any anything particularly of distinction That's a show. you um I feel like I'm coming towards the end of ah pizza making season. And I feel like i'm i I haven't made enough pizzas because I have a pizza steal.
00:16:15
Speaker
i believe I've i've said. And you have to you have to get the, like, you have to heat your, like, it's ah a slab of steel that you put in your oven that you heat up to, like, the maximum heat.
00:16:29
Speaker
and then you throw then you throw the pizza on top of it yes for like you know seven minutes and then you pull it out you have a a perfect pizza uh but that's that's a that's a winter time thing that's that's that's for the winter you are not turning your oven up to 550 no not if you can help it like when it's an 80 degree day you know no and we used to take a pizza stone outside with our uh with our grill and uh occasionally yeah we just close the lid over the handle of the pizza stone and you know can get nice and hot and it worked well in the summer at a time when as you said you don't want to be pulling you know 550 degree pizzas in and out of ovens on a hot day i know i know you're you you don't you don't cook that much right not a alone but but are you a grillman
00:17:25
Speaker
I have been in the past. I don't currently have a grill. um We had one.
Ben's Propane Grill Adventure
00:17:29
Speaker
and this was been this is one of my favorite things I've ever done in my life. okay We had a a propane grill. i been Propane and propane accessories. That's very good.
00:17:40
Speaker
you know have i Have I told you about how sometimes like i've I've seen this shirt at like some... uh like pride events where like i've i've seen ah like uh you know guys into bdsm wearing a t-shirt that has a drawing of hank hill in like full leather uh regalia and it says pro pain yeah That's pretty good. It's a really good, that's a really good shirt. It's just one of those shirts where I'm like, I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. it's just like, you know, like I'm wearing this shirt, but I just, i just appreciate i just appreciate the shirt. Yeah. No, you know, leave the whips at home, please. Like, yeah. But no, I had this propane, uh, propane grill that like all of those eventually began to rust out pretty badly. you won with the cover, you just can't leave them outside. You're around without starting to rust.
00:18:35
Speaker
So it eventually got rusty enough that one day i just, I went out with a pair of gloves and a long sleeve shirt on and I began to fold the metal into a ball. It was so flimsy and so rusted. Whoa. Until eventually said like a wad of metal that used to be my oh used my girl. And I took it out and I put in their garbage for the garbage guy to take away. And I was just like, I felt like I was Superman. I was just like, that is pretty aluminum.
00:19:02
Speaker
It would have be. Yeah, it felt really cool. Like i noticed it was very pliable. I'm like, I'm going to get some safety equipment and do something cool that could give me tetanus. Yeah. But you know what?
00:19:14
Speaker
Nothing good in this life uh is without a risk of tetanus you know that's what i always say i've always said that i've been you're saying that you're saying that before we started recording tonight yeah like and i've been chewing on these rusty nails they give me power now uh you know speaking of power jess now you're playing with power what have you been playing Oh my goodness, Ben, why have I been playing?
00:19:43
Speaker
yeah You know, the last couple of days, for some reason, you know, we have a ah small little arcade set up in our media room upstairs that my daughter claims is her own. So we have a couple of one-up cabinets and and some stuff like that set up.
00:20:01
Speaker
One of them is a one-up cabinet with a number of Marvel and Capcom games on it. Now, it doesn't have Marvel versus Capcom, the one you would want. But it does have some other games. And I have been going up there and hanging out lately and playing a little bit of X-Men Children of the Atom.
00:20:22
Speaker
don't know if you ever did a fighting game Children of the Atom, but it's a it's a Street Fighter clone with X-Men characters. It's sort of the... precursor to x-men versus street fighter which is the precursor to marvel versus capcom uh it's the beginning at some level of that whole series but it's just a classic 2d capcom fighter with a quasi random lineup of characters you've got obviously like your wolverines and your storms and your cyclopses and magnetos. But also you've got like Omega Red, who I guess was big in the ninety s and this came out.
00:21:00
Speaker
You have Spiral, ah the the sixth armed a servant of the artificial being Mojo. Silver Samurai is an odd one. um But I've been playing a lot Psylocke. She's a flippy ninja who can do like Chun-Li flip off the edge of the screen type moves.
00:21:21
Speaker
And
Nostalgia in Retro Gaming
00:21:22
Speaker
it's pretty fun. i It's one that I spent a lot of quarters on when it was in arcade and never got good at it. There is something to be said for playing at your own home and just being able to endlessly get continued. Yeah, push the add quarter button on the side of the your little mini cab. Yeah, absolutely. So I've been playing that. You know, it's fun. i I wish I was better at fighting games. It's actually an area where I've poured so much time into fighting games. Like, I'm sorry, Malcolm Gladwell. I may be at 10,000 hours, and I am no better than I started out.
00:22:00
Speaker
Wow, I can't believe that Malcolm Gladwell was wrong about something. We should get him on the podcast. Yeah, we should get him on the podcast and confront him. Yes, finally. It'll be one of our classic gotcha episodes. We, be you know, last week when we had Julia on and we finally gotcha for... That's right. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, when we asked her, can you name all 16 colors in the EGA palette? And she did it. But then we were like, well, how about VGA? And she stumbled. That's when we knew we had her.
00:22:42
Speaker
like, I know these are little like mini cabs. Were you able to like, can you play this 2P? And if so, do you play it with your daughter? Yes, I have played it two-player with my daughter. And honestly, at this point, her just randomly button mashing and me using 30 plus years of fighting game experience evens out. It's kind of like a fair match at that point. I will say, curiously, when we first got this thing,
00:23:12
Speaker
my dad played a few matches against her and I think it is literally the first time my dad has ever played a video game. um Which, like, literally any video game. That's amazing. um Which, it's a wild way to jump in, right? It's like, I think I'll just go straight to, you know, he could have, he he was hanging out, he and my mom in a lot of bars during the Pong,
00:23:34
Speaker
Pac-Man era of the world, but he saved it for a one-up cabinet of X-Men Children of the Atom, ah probably because, you know, he just wanted to hang out with his granddaughter, you know, more so than he didn't want to play a video game. So yeah, I mean, it's a transformative arcade cabinet. It's played an important role. What ah what other one-ups? what You said there's a couple. What games do you have? We have a Galaga one-up, and we have The Simpsons.
00:24:04
Speaker
Okay. Simpsons is wonderful. I mean, it also has Simpsons bowling with a trackball built into it. And that's like fun in that way that dumb bowling games are always kind of fun. I remember when that game came out.
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember playing that at the arcade. Yeah, but I love the four-player Simpsons. It's such a such a fun, wonderful side-scroller. Can't complain about that. The, uh, have you tried to, like, add other, like, is it, they're probably, like, just running MAME, right? Like, it's like, yeah it' is it, like, a, re like, i don't I don't know anything about the other the construction of these. Like, are these just, like, Raspberry Pis? I think it's a Raspberry Pi and a big bunch of plywood with a screen attached to it. I mean, i think it's super easy that ROM hacked these things and just put every game that's ever existed on any one of them, you know? Because here's the thing about, like,
00:24:58
Speaker
Because i'm I'm intrigued. So you have a cabinet that has trackball. So you should you should add some because it's like, You know, I know you have like an Anbernic and like other means of yeah emulating stuff, but you know, a tre like, Werewolf Madness is never going to play no quite as well. Crystal Castles is never going to play quite as well if you're playing with an analog stick. No, absolutely, no. And I mean, also, the fact that The Simpsons Cabinet is actually for players, I mean, that opens up a world of possibility for the X-Men.
00:25:33
Speaker
I should throw the X-Men because I do love X-Men game. Yeah. You know what would like to to have something with... I was actually posting about this earlier today. I would love to have...
00:25:48
Speaker
something with like a paddle control, like the little like twisty like thing that they used for pong and everything else. is i want to play like Arkanoid, like you can't play Arkanoid without a paddle.
00:26:02
Speaker
You gotta have a paddle. gotta have a paddle. You gotta have a paddle for Arkanoid. Like Arkanoid my favorite fallen paddle game is Warlords. I love Warlords. Warlords, if you're unfamiliar,
00:26:27
Speaker
Doubles.
00:26:30
Speaker
No, like you're... You know, you know warlords, right? No, actually, don't know warlords. do No. no warlords I don't know warlords. Like, you have like a corner, like you each have a corner of the screen and you have like a protective wall.
00:26:44
Speaker
Gotcha. So the ball is bouncing. And so it, like, it can get past you and just bounce off the wall. But if it, you know hits again, then it... And then you can also catch it and turn the ball into like a fireball or something and throw it.
00:27:01
Speaker
Back at and people, there was both a really good like arcade version, but it was pretty good on the 2600. I remember playing it against my siblings on the 2600 back then.
00:27:16
Speaker
But anyway, yeah, I'd love to have, like, if you have cabinets with stuff that it's like, well, you yeah, I can emulate this on my computer in some way, but I have a trackball. Crusher keys aren't the way to do that. Yeah, I mean, you want, yeah, no, that's absolutely right. No, think that's how you got to approach it. Do you have something with a...
00:27:41
Speaker
a bike handle controller? No, unfortunately I don't. I mean, and I don't have anything like with a dance pad either. So yeah, there are some limitations to what I can pull off, but how fun would be to have like DDR? That's what I need to figure out. I'll hook up a Nintendo Power Pad yeah to Raspberry Pi. I'm sure if was going to Reddit, someone's got the instructions for me how to do this. We'll make it happen. But Ben, yeah before we start talking about modding out my one-up arcade cabinets, I have to know, what have you been playing?
00:28:27
Speaker
Vampire Crawlers is the card
00:28:34
Speaker
variant of the auto battler mega hit.
00:28:45
Speaker
really fun game in itself. And Vampire Crawlers, is a game that takes, so like Vampire Survivors, if you are unfamiliar, it is a game where you you walk around as a little guy or a little gal or whatever, and you're just auto shooting.
00:29:08
Speaker
ah Like your your guy just auto shoots. And the monsters that you kill drop XP. When you get enough XP, you get new weapons or you can level up your weapons.
00:29:20
Speaker
And then eventually over the course of the game, you you become unbelievably powerful. And... ah Like, it's just that you're wandering around, your little guys automatically shoot it. And it's kind of like lizard-grade fun. It's very, yeah like, low impact, and it started a whole genre, right?
00:29:40
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Vampire Crawlers somehow
00:29:52
Speaker
of vampire survivors quite well into
00:29:59
Speaker
a, like, into a, like, a a card game in that it's not particularly hard. It's not particularly complex.
00:30:11
Speaker
And it pushes lizard buttons in your brain. Gotcha. Like, it is all about making the number go up. Like, it is not an idle game, but it's not a game that really requires too much thought on your part.
00:30:29
Speaker
I'm looking at the trailer, and I would just describe this aesthetic as sitting somewhere, like, at the crossroads of, like, a PS1-era Minecraft somehow. Like...
00:30:40
Speaker
don't know that's Yeah, it has big, chunky pixel graphics, which look really great. I love... Yeah, it looks fantastic. The look of it is really good. is... Here's the thing.
00:30:54
Speaker
It is game that I will probably play a fair amount more of. But this isn't a game that really is, you know, makes like makes use of my brain or anything. Like, it's like, it's the same thing I said, like, you know, months ago when I was talking about Bollock's Pit.
00:31:15
Speaker
Like, it's like, you know, this, this game is not spiritually fulfilling. Wow. Take hope that vampire crawlers. It is, it is, it is just completely empty calories,
00:31:30
Speaker
of a game. And sometimes that's what I want. Yeah. Sometimes I want a game that I'm barely paying attention to. Well, like it is it is, hardcore second screen.
00:31:42
Speaker
Like it is, you have like a five hour YouTube essay on and somebody's talking about the origin of ovens and, and you're like, oh, this seems interesting. All right. I want to learn about the first oven.
00:31:59
Speaker
and then you put on Vampire Crawlers, a game that requires less than 1% of your brain. That's perfect. That's mostly what I'm looking for out of any gaming experience these days.
00:32:11
Speaker
You know, like sometimes you just want that shit. Sometimes it's just, you know, and like it looks good and it feels good and you just play and you're just like, yeah, all right. This is good. It's good. It's good. It's good.
00:32:23
Speaker
It's good. You know, it's like, it's fine. It's, yeah you know, it's, ah you know, you can play it or you don't play it. I don't give a shit.
00:32:35
Speaker
It's not that expensive. Ben's not trying to tell you how to live your life. I mean, i listen, I recommend this if you're looking for a game that is not spiritually fulfilling.
00:32:45
Speaker
um You know, and if you been I'm just curious if you had to recommend a game that was spiritually fulfilling for our listeners who are looking at that experience. What would you lump into that category? Oh, ah it is super Noah's Ark 3D for that. There you go. Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker
You know, that game saved a lot of souls, Ben. You can laugh about all you want to, but I bet the number of people who who converted after playing that. know just sometimes like you know like you know i play a game and like these these you know a lot of this shit they're just fucking games you know sometimes it's just a fucking game sometimes it's just pac-man you know like i'm i'm not ascending i'm not ascending when i play pac-man but uh miss pac-man oh i'm ascending um
00:33:37
Speaker
ah Pac-Man 2, the new adventures, you bet I'm ascending. I mean, that is almost transcendental. Like, as you're playing Pac-Man 2, the new adventures, which we should do an episode on since it's an adventure game sometime. um When you're playing that one, i mean...
00:33:58
Speaker
Your soul does leave your body after a certain period of time, which I think is a spiritual experience. um And I think if you made it to the end, it may not make itself back from the nether realm.
00:34:12
Speaker
I think that probably is. I think anyone who's ever finished that game has probably died. Yeah, no, no one, no one living has ever finished that game. Yeah. Which makes for a really tough category on YouTube to try to watch long plays. I mean, it's just sad that they all end in tragedy. Yeah. The the speed runs, they're all like,
00:34:31
Speaker
are you really terrible it's actually one of like uh one of the worst uh uh games done quick marathons that's ever happened i can't believe they keep doing it but you know people tune in people people love it well you know what they say because the crowd always like you know they like you know during gdqs they're always uh cheering something when it's uh pac-man too they're just uh uh chanting like ominously blood Blood, blood, blood. And then when they first thing when that person completes the game, the blood starts coming out of their eyeballs and then they just keel over their theirre their their whole skin gone pale.
00:35:15
Speaker
And then everybody just cheers. They go, blood, blood, blood. And you know what? And that's how they make, you know, make their goals. So yeah. And they do a lot of good with that money. they raised ready So get off my ass. If you think it's bad.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i don't know what dark magics they put in that cartridge, but the fact of the matter is we are cursed as a people to play it. And once the bloodless begins, you know, the cartridge must be fed. It must be sated. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:48
Speaker
mean You just he just pick up your Genesis and you hold it over the blood and it just like vacuums it up. And you open up the Genesis and you don't see it in there. Where'd it go? Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
One of the grand mysteries. I'd like to you do that with your Wii okay Today on Quest Quest...
00:36:14
Speaker
ah we have ah We have one of our ah theme ah weeks. having Having spoken about games for, like, specific games for for a while. I mean, last week was was a theme.
00:36:28
Speaker
ah So you know what? I take it all back. Yeah, Ben. Way to go. But yes, we have one of our our theme weeks. What is it this week, Jess? Well, Ben... I thought it might be fun. ah You know, we talked a lot about older games on here and we mixed in some talk of new games as well, but I thought it might be fun to talk about some games that we think either need a remake a reboot or some kind of retrospective. So that's going to be the theme this episode, remake, reboot, or retrospective. And we should probably explain yeah what we mean by each of those terms as a starting point.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah. Let's use a, a, a, like let's, Yeah. So for a, like a remake, a remaster, i i would say, let's, let's provide examples if, if we can. So like a remake remaster something like that. Like, it's like the, the secret of monkey Island one and two.
00:37:28
Speaker
uh the great 20th anniversary uh yeah um i yeah i wrote down leisure suit larry won multiple times missed a million times yeah uh like so you know a a remake a re remaster that is taking the original game and uh maintaining the the core gameplay and narrative and all that and then updating the graphics the sound like all the the aesthetics and the quality of life yeah those sorts of things modern os compatibility yeah and and sometimes also like a they they might make like they might
00:38:20
Speaker
modify the game in some mild ways like uh you know ka not added the sliding tile puzzles in their 20th anniversary but the end of the day the original game was still the core text there like this was the original game with a couple of added puzzles on top of that that were a small part of the larger presentation Or like, you know, like ah the ah broken sword ah one remake that like, you know, they they made like the goat puzzle a little easier, I guess. I don't know. Did they? Yeah. little
00:38:54
Speaker
Quality of life, things like that. but yeah, you're still talking about basically the same game. Now, a reboot is. So it's about ah Bob, who's a guardian.
00:39:09
Speaker
And ah he's friends with Dot Matrix and her little brother Enzo. They all live in mainframe. Yes. ah And as a guardian, Bob defends mainframe by interfacing with the the the games that the all-powerful user constantly drops on mainframe and gets all sorts of crazy scrapes. Was this the inspiration for Tron?
00:39:37
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. Reboot created Tron. That's right. Wow. because It sounds a lot alike, only like maybe a little more like kid oriented. Tron's a serious film for adults with Jared Leto. Yeah.
00:39:52
Speaker
They, you know, i'm i i kept saying Leto the Lighten and they did. you watch that Tron movie? No, i haven't seen any fucking Tron movie. You know, I got 10 minutes into that and slept the remainder of the film and it was very restful. Four stars. Four stars.
00:40:20
Speaker
i've I've seen the original try like when I was like 16 when I had like ah a 102 fever and I was in and out.
00:40:31
Speaker
And so that's my one viewing of Tron is like also 10 minutes, ah albeit kind of up and down.
00:40:42
Speaker
yeah but a reboot trump is actually a reboot yeah tron's actually i think maybe a ah good point comparison you think that it kind of treads that fine line between reboot and maybe something closer to a legacy sequel you know i think because some of the continuity of the original is still in place there uh but uh you know certainly reimagining what the series is all about and yeah with a reboot Usually we're going to reimagine some way like the premise, the tone, the continuity, maybe try to aim at a different audience. You're keeping some characters, some themes, a setting, ah but maybe not trying to recreate exactly what came before. So like, say the the 2015 King's Quests.
00:41:29
Speaker
I think that's a perfect example where you've changed up the genre. You're not beholden to the old continuity. You're using familiar concepts in new ways. Yeah. I think that for adventure games is maybe the very definition of, uh, of a reboot. I think it really captures that better than anything else I can think of. I would argue maybe to the recent, um,
00:41:55
Speaker
leisure suit Larry games uh that was that was I had that written down yeah I remember like my my little note here is leisure suit Larry always feels like it's in a state of reboot like yes yes because mean again that one's sort of legacy sequel sort of reboot and that yeah this is wet dreams don't die and uh or don't dry I'm sorry wet dreams don't dry but and what a what a title um it uh it doesn't necessarily abandon the continuity, but it introduces this new twist of what if Larry were basically unfrozen Austin Powers style here in the modern era of dating apps and things like that.
00:42:34
Speaker
But at least it's still a point and click adventure game. I mean, yeah, it's one part reboot, one part legacy sequel. I feel like King's Quest 2015 is much more clearly a reboot. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:46
Speaker
And then retrospective, which I don't know if they've ever, like, is there, like, the the the Lucas ah remakes, those all have commentary.
00:42:59
Speaker
But I still, those are those are not retrospectives. I can't think of an adventure game that has retrospective. But what I would say like use as an example of a retrospective is any of the, like I talk a lot about how much I enjoy it, like the digital eclipse, um, uh, gold master.
Game Retrospectives and Remakes
00:43:21
Speaker
So like what they did with Atari 50 or, uh, more recently, like their mortal combat legacy collection where they are, the retrospectives are like, it contains the game and it contains the original game.
00:43:40
Speaker
ah the way that Digital Eclipse does it is typically they'll ah it will contain a bunch of the like a bunch of games and then often they'll some weird versions in a lot of cases right and then often they'll throw in ah a like kind of a like a ah lightweight modern ah update version.
00:44:05
Speaker
ah like So for ah like the Jeff Minter collection, they threw in a ah like a kind of modern-looking version of Gridrunner.
00:44:20
Speaker
But the real appeal of the retrospectives is that ah like in the digital eclipse way is that they, they, they make them as like kind of museum pieces.
00:44:34
Speaker
There is a, it it has a linear, ah ah like ah a path that you follow. You see ah like design notes, you there's little bits of writing that they use ah like with quotes and stuff like that, or bits of context. interview footage photos and and stuff like that advertisements and then often or actually for all of them they they uh managed to get uh some of the people involved in making the games uh on camera to talk about uh making the games and uh it's always a really interesting and and handsome package even if it's uh like games that
00:45:21
Speaker
you know, i I don't even particularly care about. ah Yeah, no. And i love that. pressure yeah I was trying to think of their examples for adventure gaming and I came up a little bit empty as well. Like I think back to something like,
00:45:35
Speaker
the lost treasures of Infocom that tried to do this in a very limited way in an era of physical media where they at least brought together, you know, all of these old Infocom games into a couple of different collections and then assembled like a giant manual that had,
00:45:52
Speaker
all of like reproductions of all the fillies and everything's like that, but they're still basically like photocopies of these old fillers fillies. It's not quite the same. It's not like the level of digital eclipse is doing. this i mean, you have other collections from other companies. i mean, they even tried to,
00:46:07
Speaker
make gestures in this direction with things like the king's quest and space quest collections but it is when we're thinking here a retrospective we want something more we want to know the whole story yeah of these games with rare hard defined bits of ephemera and when we set out to talk about this our idea was it's like yeah if we had to pick some games that we would like to see remade that we might like to see series that were rebooted altogether or game series that we think are the work of a particular creator that we think would benefit from this kind of retrospective. So I, I, I actually, have a question for you. Yeah.
00:46:52
Speaker
How do you feel great about, Oh, good. um But, and then my next question is, how do you feel about, ah remake remasters in general because a lot of them are kind of unnecessary, right?
00:47:14
Speaker
Like, I mean, they, they are, a lot of them are, are necessary to like, it's like, all right, well, you know, now you can play it without ah having like, now someone could just open up steam or the PlayStation store or whatever. Yeah. And like, just click a button and they have it.
00:47:35
Speaker
Versus it's like, oh, you have to open up DOSBox or or something and mess around a little bit. Yeah, and I think for people like us who are used to doing that sort of stuff, who are comfortable ScumVM, in a lot of cases, a lot of these remakes feel a little inessential. You know, it's like i can I can play Day of the Tentacle right now with its gorgeous original pixel graphics.
00:47:56
Speaker
It's great that the remaster exists out there. And it's it's a beautifully done version of a remaster. But... isn't quite essential to me. Yeah. And I wouldn't, in some cases I don't care for choices made with some of these remakes. You know, think that boy, I'm of two minds about monkey Island special edition one and two in the sense of, I kind of hate what it did with the game graphically, especially the first game. I think it looks really terrible. You know, here's, here's my hot take is I actually don't mind like
00:48:28
Speaker
its i mean everybody everybody hates a downgrade i everybody hates the well yeah you know what the the the canonical monkey island it's the the vga one and and and real sickos who've been listening to our podcast now that we prefer the the ega 16 that's right uh but uh it's hard to be mad at those because you get friend of the pod yeah darwin uh armados wait he he was in games ishika oh Dan. um I mean, his performance is guy brush makes those completely essential at some level. I mean, it's it's wonderful. But this is let me let me say one thing about those, though.
00:49:10
Speaker
and And this is absolutely no slight on Dominic or any of that, because especially on, ah like, if I recall for the ah Secret, I don't remember quite who the cast is for the second one.
00:49:24
Speaker
But for Secret of Monkey Island, the voice cast, like, is ah like it it has some real, like, I think what Rob Paulson doing a lot of voices do. He's such a talented voice actor. He's, like, just a guy that has, like, a funny voice, right?
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. ah Like it has a lot of really wonderful voice talent. They all do a great job. But, you know, I always had the thought with both of those games is that you can kind of tell that they are not written to be read.
00:49:58
Speaker
Yes. ah And, and so it's like you hear like the, the, and, and to be clear, when I go back and revisit them, I usually have those voices on because I love the voice performances. Yeah, of course. But, you know, even those, which are the best, like inarguably the best part of, of those remakes, I'm kind of like these lines we're not like, it's like you play Curse of Monkey Island, you play Escape, et cetera, et cetera.
00:50:30
Speaker
Like, you know that they're writing these lines to be read and yeah you know, ah like, I don't know if they're... The timing and everything oftentimes is driven by the idea of text progressing on the screen. And yeah, i mean, that's, yeah, I do think that's part of the, of the built-in appeal. Can you think of a remake that you enjoy? yeah More than the original?
00:50:55
Speaker
Yeah. Quest for Glory 1. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. that's the That's the correct answer. That's a good one. I'm so thoroughly on the record ah of that. Obviously. Obviously, yeah. That one's like Colossal Cave Adventure. I mean, honestly, I thought the yeah Colossal Cave remake, especially having played it in VR, which is what it was initially designed yeah for.
00:51:21
Speaker
Like, I thought that, you know, ah there was a lot of like kind of at least in the corners that I was in a lot of skepticism towards it and when i finally played the Colossal Cave remake and I did it in my like VR headset I was like you know what this makes a pretty good argument for itself it's it's I I was charmed I I thought it was very interesting I haven't played it myself but everyone I watch stream it ah like I thought i had pretty good vibes yeah I'm not mad at that one yeah yeah
00:51:52
Speaker
but Ben, if you had to think of a game that you would remaster or remake, what are some of your picks? What are some of the ones that sprung to mind for you games that need that fresh coat of paint on them?
00:52:08
Speaker
Uh, you know what, what might, you know, because again, this is, this is hard because like, Which classic work are you going to destroy? yeah what What, what, what game, like, especially with adventure games, it's like, they all like, you know, in that moment, I, I love how so many games, like, there's not a game I look at and I go, oh you know what this like adventure game, certainly like from like the, the, the early nineties that I look at and go like, Oh, this really needs, you know, this really needs to be done again. um
00:52:45
Speaker
You know, I thought, you know what what might be interesting, what might be kind of fun if somebody did it was ah ah a Conquest the Longbow. I was just like, you know what, that might be kind of fun if somebody did that.
00:52:57
Speaker
I could see that being a game that might actually translate to new audiences too. Cause I feel like that's part of the appeal of a remake, right? It's not because all the old heads are going to be playing their scum VM version. You know, they're fine with what they have, but at some level you hope a remake or a remaster presumably will now allow you to reach a new audience. And i do think among Sierra games that,
00:53:22
Speaker
Conquest of the Longbow is one that could find a new audience without having to be overhauled at a core level that would be a you full on reboot situation.
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah, it'd probably be if you if you were to remake Conquest of Longbow, you'd probably just by default, not even ah intentionally, you'd probably make it easier because a lot of it, like it has a lot of the copy protection stuff. So you'd strip that out.
00:53:48
Speaker
And then like, so that would just kind of make it easier by default. Get rid of um like some of the just kind of like you'd streamline some of the wandering around the woods stuff yeah um try to play up the i think the cozy hang of it yeah over the over the really like gamey parts of it and then it's like you know if you want to you can make the arcade like sequence stuff in it which is pretty lousy uh in in the original like you could you know if you want to like kind of beef that up a little bit still with the option to skip
00:54:26
Speaker
Um, and like, I also think that like, it you know, probably would have to do a pass on, on, uh, the dialogue, but I mean, you Christy Marks wrote for television.
00:54:41
Speaker
That's right. And so I think it's going to be ready to voice. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. No, I think so too. I think that's a good pick. I like that one. Yeah. A lot. You know, some of the ones I thought of, like part of me Like, again, this is so inessential. And this is the problem, I think, with so many of these remasters.
00:54:58
Speaker
Part of me, on principle, kind of feels like it's a shame we haven't gotten a Curse of Monkey Island remastered to go along with the Day of the Tentacle and and the Full Throttle. but then again, it's like, I don't know if you're going to make that game look better. It already looks perfect.
00:55:14
Speaker
You're going to open it up to an audience that's never played it before, ah potentially. I think there are people out there that would love it that maybe haven't played it. though make like the controls that you can play it with a game pad. Yeah. That would have some appeal. But again, I don't know that one needs to exist. And then like, i thought like sicko pick,
00:55:37
Speaker
that would not reach any audience, but i would kind of love the thought of it is Gabriel not three. so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great pick. I think it, I think it has the chance to really benefit from remake remaster that really thinks about quality of life, we either do it in 2d or just a better 3d engine, you know, yeah just keep,
00:56:00
Speaker
keep the core of it. I mean, keep the silly cat hair stuff, whatever, you know, and that's, that's all fine. That's part of the charm of the end. Keep the stuff. Um, if, uh, if you insist, I think that's a real interface a little easier, but again, that's going to reach an audience of except, you know, just, uh,
00:56:19
Speaker
exclusively sickos it's not going to be the breakout hit that uh that you might want out something like this what i settled on as a game that i would really love to see remade or remastered i would love to see a new pass at the last express Well, they did do. They did? They did a pass on the last Express. Well, then I'm ahead of the game. Did they really?
00:56:46
Speaker
so There was a last Express Gold Edition. There is. When did that come out? Like, it you know. Oh, well, that came out in 97. Yeah. I swear there was. Is that right? No, that's when the original came out. That's what it says on steam. This is more recent. Now I'm looking at it. There's there's a they, they did. And you own this. They, they did do a version. Uh, like that, that kind of cleaned it up and maybe was this gold edition.
00:57:16
Speaker
Yeah. Now I'm. No, I'm all turned around. Now I'm all turned around. Maybe. But I, yeah, so I think there's still- It's a 2012 remaster. Yes. Yeah. yeah And I'm not sure what all the remaster did there, but that's one that I feel like You know, i'd have to look and see. Yeah, again, what the um I'm reading about the re-release here.
00:57:41
Speaker
ah There was a film adaptation planned. Oh, my gosh. Says Wikipedia. um Let's see. The collector's edition includes soundtrack making a video.
00:57:55
Speaker
Released it with GOG. Yeah, don't get a lot details here. Just reading on Wikipedia. So yeah, I should have researched that more carefully. But I do think it's a game that could, you know, with a slick looking. I mean, because looking at the footage of the remaster, it looks a lot like I remember the original. I think that could. Yeah, they didn't. Yeah. You don't want to lose the original rotoscoped animation. mean, that is the appeal.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah. Those kind of. detail like and also the weird movement like the low frame rate like kinda yeah you you know what I would love with like you said Curse of Monkey Island rewind that Like, you know, the the real dream ah with Curse, which I don't think, like, if if they could do this, they would have. um And, but also this is true of a bunch of other games, is that it's like, if you're going to remake Curse of Monkey Island,
00:58:53
Speaker
um i you know, i would only truly want it if they found or they had the original scanned art and then scanned it at, you know, 4k or whatever. yeah And so now you're seeing per to Pollo and it you know, looks, you know, as it was originally drawn instead of, you know, squeezed down into 40 by four 80 and,
00:59:24
Speaker
you know, SVGA graphics. And like, you know, that would also like... um like that's kind of my, uh, like, you know, I'll fill in just a whole bunch of other remakes and just say like anything made with scanned art.
00:59:43
Speaker
Wouldn't it be great if we could have a version where it like, you know, I'm thinking about King's quest five. was just King's quest five was exactly what I was about to say. Can you imagine that with like the actual paintings? Cause i mean, we've seen some of those paintings through the years and, you magazines and things like that.
00:59:59
Speaker
that would be absolutely gorgeous. What a, what a charming game that would be. Like that's always been kind of my my dream with those is it's like, I don't want,
01:00:11
Speaker
um like I don't want a reinterpretation or or something different. It's just like, wouldn't it be great if somebody like if, you know, ah Roberto is like, oh, I just opened up this other room, like the closet in the yacht, and I just found a you know, a bin with every single...
01:00:30
Speaker
you know piece of art from King's Quest V and also a like a whole bunch of audio tapes so we can hear you know Josh Mandel like we've never heard him before in full crystal clear yeah no clarity I mean there's good news Ben while you've been talking about this I just fired up Claude and created it Yeah. And I'm just going to go over to Reddit and announce my new game projects. They're coming out. Remastered curse of monkey Island.
01:01:01
Speaker
No AI. All right. Got it. So I'm good. Yeah. I know. I've had a lot of angry responses. yeah and If I wanted to see that, I would go into any Sierra fan group on fucking Facebook.
01:01:15
Speaker
This looks amazing. Look at this. It's it's like Roger Wilco came to life. Oh my God. All right. Do you have anything else and on ah on the remade? Other than the one that's already been re remade? No. yeah um that that's I think Gabriel, I mean, again, Gabriel 9-3, horrible idea. Gabriel 9-3, I think, is is is the best. Throw money down the toilet, and you'll do just as well, but...
01:01:37
Speaker
as a sicko i'd love to see it i think gabriel knight three is the best is is is the best because the the interface like you know i i said earlier it's like all of these look great and they all like it's like you know i don't really like the the art in conquest of the longbow looks spectacular um I don't want to get rid of that.
Potential for Game Reboots
01:02:00
Speaker
But it's like, I don't like the way that ah Gabriel Knight 3 looks. I do not like its interface. I do not like, you know, there's, it it is, it's just from that ugly duckling era yeah of 3D. It's a fully 3D game. It's not,
01:02:19
Speaker
like built on a flight simulator right like it wasn't that i do not know i believe it's a flight simulator engine that's great avril swoops through the game uh and occasionally activates his afterburners yeah uh but um like like how Quest for Glory 5 even looks because I have a softness for the pre-rendered backgrounds with ugly, tiny little, yeah.
01:02:54
Speaker
you know time hall yeah ah chunky graphics running around like those I like okay how wild is it that the Sierra developed two separate bad engines you can tell that Ken wasn't there anymore because he would never let that shit happen it's like kent like you know that's that is absolutely not something that would have happened at Ken Williams' is Sierra I'm i'm sure
01:03:25
Speaker
So let's move on to reboots and reboots. and I have a couple, uh, re-endown, but, uh, how about you go first? Since I went first, you know, I wouldn't put this one on my list, but, you know, i was thinking about like attempts to reboot adventure game series. And, you know, as someone who spent a lot of time in his life thinking about space quest, uh,
01:03:50
Speaker
And the attempt to like reboot it a couple of times in different forms. You know, I want to go on record. The idea of rebooting Space Quest as some sort of like action platformer game isn't the worst idea I've ever heard. I feel like you could keep a lot of what the appeal of the series is, which is the comedy, the snarkiness, Roger dying in horrible ways.
01:04:15
Speaker
I think a lot of that is compatible with that format, but I don't know that I want that. I don't know if that's the one. Some of the, the stuff that you shared, uh, when you updated the virtual yeah broom closet last year, ah like some of the, the stuff that like you kind of, when you pieced it together, um I like looked at it and was like, you know what?
01:04:37
Speaker
That would probably be 3.5 out of five, ah you know, ah ah platformer that you would buy ah like six months later for $20. Yeah. Which is literally like 75% the original Xbox lineup. So yeah, that fits fits, beautifully. Yeah. I mean, that's not the worst idea I've ever heard to reboot a series, but you know,
01:05:02
Speaker
I was thinking about this and I kept, it's probably no surprise is is like a Sierra head. i kept coming back to these. i mean, we've already had, i mean, gosh, do we think of like the salmon max telltale games? Is that, i was everyone who is that a legacy sequel? I was wondering if those are legacy equals, or I'm going to say that those are probably legacy equals though. Closer to the, the, the gap is,
01:05:25
Speaker
between those is is not actually that long if we think about not as long as it seems no but it's like yes well let's see salmon max at the road comes out when 93 yeah yeah that can't like what 10 years later 2003 no not 2003 2006 right i'm doing all this from i think so yeah think that's right that sounds right 13 years is is yeah that's pretty long but that's nothing yeah but um but he's still the grand scheme of things no mean you know they bring in uh uh flint in the second season like flint paper and there's like very light references but i think also like there i think for
01:06:10
Speaker
I think for all intenses and purposes, I'm going to say that they're reboots and here's why. ah Because it's a different type of game. An episodic adventure game ah done in a completely different ah like style.
01:06:28
Speaker
like the The puzzling is very different. ah ah The look is completely different. the voices are completely different. And you could say like, well, you know, like the voices and some adventure games, you know, change and graph yeah and so on. It's like, are you going to say that, you know, quest for glory five is a reboot over quest for glory one. No, but yes. ah But I think that the, the telltale salmon max games are different.
01:06:57
Speaker
different enough that they're essentially a reboot they they are they're they're they're they're very different yeah no so it's like yeah again i don't know is there a lucas arts series i want to read but kept coming back to sierra stuff because sierra is of course my my my jam you is there a way to reboot police quest? Probably not tastefully. i don't think we need to, to go down there. We had our chance. We had our chance. and then we had a starter Spiritual successor. Yeah. You know, I think that,
01:07:34
Speaker
and maybe if there's a Sierra series, really Oh, we're really bad. Yeah. We've given us so much. We would've had one content episode with Grayson. Anyway, know before you can never appear again. Yeah. um I think Laura bow is a Laura down. It works beautifully for the modern era. I feel like in some ways she fits with adventure game sensibilities today even better than she did when her games came out. And of course, there's this game, the Mechanical Codex, that's kind of been floating around out there as a possible Laura Bowe reboot for a number of years now. I don't know if work is still happening on that. I'm still even completely sure what the, you know, if that license is fully secured or what that game's all about. Like the Crimson Diamond. That's right. Yeah. We've got extensively last week. Yeah. You know, the one that I came back to though, that I think could really thrive in the modern world.
01:08:31
Speaker
I think a reboot of quest for glory today has i almost request for glo so much potential. I think, a cozy but dangerous RPG adventure. And maybe you know in this modern era, you could really ramp up that blending of the genres a little bit more. Maybe there could be a little bit more of the RPG element. But if you could get that cozy, funny vibe of of Quest for Glory, but with the idea there's stakes at play, and then you can blend in some class-based solutions and some neat things like that,
01:09:07
Speaker
I feel like a modern Quest for Glory game could be the sort of thing that actually meaningfully cross over and find an audience. day If you did it right. You know what I would say is that I think that because I thought about this, almost wrote, as I said, I almost wrote Quest for Glory.
01:09:23
Speaker
I think the thing is, is that if you rebooted Quest for Glory, it would get the math wrong. um And that's why it didn't because I think that Quest for Glory is much more and I mean, later on in the series almost entirely, like much more an adventure game with ah yeah like enough of an interesting dash.
01:09:51
Speaker
yeah of RPG it's an adventure game with some numbers yeah yeah and and so very tempting to go the other way you were to bring back Quest for Glory i would want it to still kind of exist within that paradigm like I would want it to be more adventure focused because it's like we have a lot of ah great RPGs and great RPGs with with really rich narratives and and all of that. And so it's like, i would want to make sure that it would be more on the adventure side of the house.
01:10:37
Speaker
than the RPG. like it it's Because I think that that type of mixture is like and in the specific um like how many parts of adventure to how many parts of RPG is is a really key part of of what makes those games successful.
01:11:01
Speaker
No, absolutely. now I think you're you're definitely right on that. now I mean, I think it's it's a delicate balance. And yeah, I mean, Yeah, i thought I thought some i mean, like Gabriel Knight as a visual novel yeah series nowadays, I think there's potential to rethink genres like that. But what did you have for a reboot? What game series are you restarting?
01:11:24
Speaker
So I had, well, I as I said, I had Laura Bow down because I think Laura bow has has some good. ah potential um i also i wrote down here uh i think uh i mean i don't know if you'd call this a reboot or or not you know again but i i think uh disc world is rich and so i say reboot which is to say like
01:12:00
Speaker
you know, just don't even think about the previous three games. Just start making Discworld games again. Yeah, if you want to do like Rinse Wind, it's not like you could even do the guards guards plot like with Rinse Wind again and just make a totally different game. Like Discworld is such a rich,
01:12:20
Speaker
ah yeah like it's it's such a rich game uh like a rich fantasy yeah and there's so much drawn compared to the last time we made a disc world game like i mean it is such a rich world to to pick and choose stories and characters and other elements from i mean you could really do some neat stuff with that and uh like i've been i've been slowly rereading like i'm uh like some of the disc world books
01:12:52
Speaker
i You know, and it just strikes me all the more of just like how big it is and how detailed it is and all the different directions that you could possibly go with it.
01:13:05
Speaker
the the The problem, the only problem with it is it's like a lot of people just get fucking Discworld wrong. yes i mean it's not easy it's yeah like like every adaptation of it ever yeah uh yeah i mean ben could i ask you though to stop the press watch show that i didn't watch yeah yeah they should they should have called that show don't watch ah not it's not the night watch it's not watch yeah um Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Ben, I got big one. Ben, I got you. ah Yes.
01:13:47
Speaker
Ack, more pork city builder. Yeah, see, that would be great. That'd be great. Oh my God. I bet. It'd be like afterlife and it would be like a terrible mess of a game that sounds great in concept, yeah but I'd like to imagine an aunt more pork city builder.
01:14:05
Speaker
I bet the witches would be really fun to do yeah an adventure game with because they, they live in one of the more traditional adventure game settings like this remote place.
01:14:17
Speaker
like kind of like top of the mountain, small villages. There's like a ah small kind of podunk kingdom ah that they, they work in and they do like weird magic that is, is kind of you know, limited in certain ways. Like, I think there's a lot of adventure game potential to the witches, but I think there's all sorts, like, I think,
01:14:45
Speaker
you know I think there's a lot of potential ah for Discworld in so many ways ah in in games. But like in ah adventure games. like So yeah, i think I think that would be like a ah reboot.
01:15:05
Speaker
And then the last one I put down is Tex Murphy. Let's reboot Tex Murphy. Let's reboot Tex Murphy. Again. because yeah because i mean kind tex murphy was itself kind of a reboot kind of yes yeah that's right and it's a reboot that's been legacy sequel and then it had a legacy now it's ready for a reboot yeah i think i mean tex murphy is a good early example of a reboot like yeah i mean uh when you get under a killing moon it is a complete reboot of like the mean streets version of tex murphy that existed before Yeah, exactly. mean, there are continuity elements in place, but i mean, now it's a yeah basically a new genre. The character changes dramatically to really play up the noir detective tropes and everything else. yeah I mean, it's a pretty big shift.
01:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, i just think that there's a lot of like, I think... You know, we were talking about mystery games last week and, you know, we just were talking about Laura Bow and that's the other one. You know, one of the other ones I had on this list here is that I think that there's a lot of fun to be had.
01:16:09
Speaker
i think there's still fun to be had and I think people would still have fun. Like, you know, mystery games are are popular right now. They're having a moment. And doing one with ah like this kind of Blade Runner pastiche noir thing, i think would like I think it's still kind of a interesting and fun ah ah setting. And you could probably find a way.
01:16:39
Speaker
to like i think there are multiple routes to you know in the the 2020s to uh like kind of honor its fmv roots from either just making it a straight fmv game or like having like some kind of videos element to it or you know i i think there there are different ways you could ah handle handle it I think the the most important thing is is maintaining the the charm ah of it um and and I think yeah I think it's you know i think we could reboot Tex Murphy I think there is there's a lot of potential ah in in that world and revisiting it but you know just starting over
01:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. I think, yeah, I mean, at this point, you know, what was, and know Tesla effect at this point is, know, I guess going on, it's got to be 12, 13 years by now. Like, I mean, it's not a new game. 2014.
01:17:49
Speaker
Yeah. So it's not a new game by the stretch of the imagination. Yeah. I don't know if you're out reach again that new audience. I think, yeah, like rather than thinking another legacy sequel, a reboot could be fine, but they're also working on remasters right now, I suppose too. So that's one that I guess there's stuff happening with, but no, I think that that's, that's a great pick again.
01:18:10
Speaker
I feel like, Like said, think mysteries have some appeal. I think there's a lot of appeal in mysteries for adventures. I think there's appeal in cozy games. And there's a appeal with scary horror type games with adventures right now. And yeah, I mean, which is why I'm getting ready to say we have to reboot Phantasmacoria. No, I can even i can't even make that case with a straight face. I don't know.
01:18:34
Speaker
I mean... a horror anthology series, a FMV genuinely scary. Well done. One would be wonderful, but i don't know if phantasmagoria is the property you start with there.
01:18:46
Speaker
We need to retell the story of Adrian and Don. Don, that's right. um I'm amazed that I was able to pull that too. Yeah, I know. i know We have to do a Phantasmagoria episode someday. Or have we already? Maybe. and um It's hard to say. It's impossible to say. I think we might have. It might have been one of our patrons only episodes. Yeah. I'm not going listen nerdy to to each other as patrons only. Yeah.
01:19:13
Speaker
ah let's see fantastic no we didn't oh wow who knew oh wait hold on i if there was still more no we did we did okay we did you did the six months oh we did didn't we six months ago oh god it wasn't even one of our early ones no no no this past october do you think it was really good oh i think it was great um it was a first time thank you for coming in yeah uh anyway um how about
01:19:45
Speaker
retrospectives Ben if you're going to put together one of these archival museum style presentations what ah series or game do you think deserves this I've got I've i've got an easy one this was when I think I do too probably um so you actually kind of mentioned this earlier um kind of when we were talking about this but I want like i want I want this done in in the digital equipment style, which is I want a Infocom retrospective, ah you know, ah bundle.
Spotlight on Gaming Pioneers
01:20:29
Speaker
which Because here's the thing. I don't even think it would... i don't even think that the... um that the assets for it would like infocom is such a documented company and there's already a documentary about it.
01:20:49
Speaker
There's Jason, Jason Scott's get lamp. Yes. Which isn't, I don't like, I think that kind of broadly, it's been a long time since I watched it. But um i think I think it in some ways also is just kind of broadly about like text adventures, but it has a lot of info stuff. Yeah, if you're going to be about text adventures, info comm's going figure prominently. And ah you could...
01:21:15
Speaker
Not only draw on that, but i ah again, if I recall correctly, there was an enormous amount of additional footage, most of which I believe he's put up on archive.org.
01:21:27
Speaker
um Again, I'm i'm working from from memory here. It's been a long time since I watched the documentary. But like it's like you already have that. and And so like you have that. a lot of those guys are still around.
01:21:39
Speaker
And so like maybe record some other stuff, but I also know that like, it's a pretty well documented and like, ah like the, the rise and fall of Infocom, the, you know, the L Vezza, who was, I believe like one of the guys in charge spending an enormous amount of the company resources on a doomed account.
01:22:06
Speaker
database program. ah Like it it has such an interesting story. it has, yeah, a narrative built into it already, um which, yeah, that's fascinating. Like looking at their attempts to figure out what they're going to do as the market for purely text adventures go away. I mean, there's a fascinating story to look at their final years of output and all the different ways they tried to rethink what was going on there. You know that they, when the Infocom games came out, like on mobile devices years and years ago, I know that they had some things like recreating the Phillies yeah as like 3D models that you I mean, and it it was, it was a loss physical version of it, you know? That was that I had that. It was like, I forget what it was called, but there was an infocom ah collection on iOS and
01:23:07
Speaker
And it had like, it had all the Invisi clues and it had, uh, the feelies rendered in 3d. And, when, um, iOS did the 64 bit transition, it was one those one of those things that they didn't, it was like Activision didn't update it and it was just gone forever. Yeah. And, um, but yeah,
01:23:33
Speaker
so So here's the thing that I really like about the digital eclipse retrospectives and why I think the Infocom ah like catalog or essentially all of it minus Hitchhiker's Guide and Norton Burt, which are the two that never show up.
01:23:52
Speaker
Also, I guess Shogun is not going to show up in there. Yeah, probably not. no one wants Shogun, like the show they, if you're unfamiliar with the Infogom Shogun game, which is based on the same, uh, book that, uh, that, uh, Hulu series, everybody liked, right?
01:24:09
Speaker
Was that a Hulu series? Was it Hulu or HBO? remember I didn't, I didn't watch it. I heard it was great. It was wonderful. It was really good. Yeah. But anyway, ah that was like a late, like a licensed adaptation that I hear was not very good. um But, ah you know, what I like about those retrospectives is the amount of historical context that they provide gives, helps ah create a, at least in me, um a better appreciation of the games you're playing.
01:24:48
Speaker
Because it's also, it's it's kind of hard, like, it's It's not very difficult these days to get every single n NES game that was ever made. Mm-hmm. Or every single, like, or almost every, you know, arcade cabinet.
01:25:04
Speaker
or whatever like you can do all that you can stick it on a micro sd and you could just put it on you can play it on your phone like or you can play it on your steam deck or whatever really doesn't it's not that hard and i think an experience that a lot of people have i certainly have it it's like holy shit i've got every nes game if i was when i was six this was my dream job And then you you play each game for like five minutes and go like, oh, okay, well, that's that. And then you're done.
01:25:35
Speaker
And like sometimes you might even do that with like, I mean, the NES has an enormous amount of garbage on it, as does most, you know, stuff. Yeah, every platform. But like, even if you're playing like, you know, something that is like the best of the best, if you're playing like Mega Man or something like that, you still might be like, play for like 10, 15 minutes and go like,
01:25:56
Speaker
all right, well, yeah the you know, I, that's cute. Um, What's great about the the digital ah eclipse things is if you get all of the context leading up to, it's like, here's why this game is important.
01:26:13
Speaker
Here's what the designers were thinking. Here's why critics at the time thought this was incredible. it It kind of refigures your brain so you can be like, oh, I understand why Like, you know, now I finally understand, ah you know, this this weird n NES game or this weird arcade game. That's right. It sort shifts your position as the player toward maybe less looking for a game experience that maybe just doesn't exist anymore. Like, it's hard to have...
01:26:48
Speaker
the 1987 Mega Man experience in 2026. But it shifts your mind toward, I think, appreciation instead, really getting a broader context. I mean, I think what these collections always do a good job with for me is like we intellectually know that these games are being made by human beings. And they're being made also within the context of a business that has to turn a profit and has to keep the lights on and things like that.
01:27:17
Speaker
And I think that these collections do a good job of framing how all of these, all this creative intent, all this human effort, and then all this broader... yeah sort of financial and economic element of it come together into something that, yeah, it gives you a little bit more of ah a zoomed out view of of where these games fit into a bigger story. And I think that that's, and Infocom's perfect for that. Yeah, I mean, i think you can do neat stuff with that. You know, one of my picks, I started out thinking, you know, that,
01:27:50
Speaker
a king's quest for for a lot of the same reasons like the obvious one king's quest would be great i thought maybe more so like a roberta williams uh uh collection would be much better i know we've had anthology already yeah a roberta williams anthology yeah but a proper one that goes all the way back to mystery house and works its way forward I think could be incredibly neat, especially for people, you know, like that era of histories. I think, I, I, I think it it would really help kind of contextualize it for a lot of people that might not necessarily know that like, you know, i like just kind of how,
01:28:39
Speaker
important a lot of her contributions to video games were she's not just an important early woman in video game development but just what a hugely influential and innovative figure she was and I think also yeah giving people a peek back into you know a world of we are selling software by putting diskettes into Ziploc bags at our kitchen table and mailing them ourselves out to people. You know I think that that part of the story is probably hard to imagine for a lot of younger gamers who haven't heard it before. I think for a lot of people, you'd probably be encountering that for the first time. I think that she's someone who,
01:29:23
Speaker
deserves to be spoken about in the same kind of reverent tones we reserve for some of the most important game developers the industry's ever seen. And I'm not sure that maybe younger generations fully appreciate what a, what a contribution that she made along way. Or even older generations, because I feel like, you know, there was ah like, I think kind of,
01:29:52
Speaker
you know, right. And I, you know, you still see it from time to time. Like the, but like in the, like in that interim period, ah yeah in like the early two thousands when, ah there was kind of a,
01:30:09
Speaker
like a fallow period for a lot of adventure games, like Sierra is not making them. It did feel like it was very much in vogue ah to, to kind of dismiss her ah like as a designer and in her, her place.
01:30:25
Speaker
And, and here here's the thing it's like i understand all these criticisms of like the design flaws of her games i like you know like i understand all of that i still think that uh the impact that she had on games is absolutely undeniable yeah i don't even care like yeah i mean she shipped more hit games than like john romero
01:30:50
Speaker
Like, I think that numerically is true, right? like Yeah. I mean, in... And genre-defining in much the same way he was, you know? Like, ah you know, I mean, I'm sure Doom sold more than all King's Quest. Maybe a couple more copies. Yeah, i mean... like but Like, I mean, we might be thinking about Dinkatana, like, you know, kidding old John. Yeah, but that's right. I mean, he does have a couple of big ones there. I mean, is Wolfenstein's no slouch. One of the most important games also. Let's not yeah i'm not. I'm not saying he's. I'm just saying that she is in, I think, legitimately the same conversation as people like.
01:31:30
Speaker
John Romero in terms of her impact on the industry. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And go up pale in comparison. I mean, she she is one of those above the title kind of designers. And yeah, i think that a ah proper retrospective could really do a great job of telling that story and helping people understand.
01:31:53
Speaker
you yeah we we've I think a lot of people have heard her name, but really appreciate exactly what she brought to the table. And then, you know, then you'd have a version of the wizard and the princess, which wouldn't crash on you.
01:32:07
Speaker
i remember I remember watching i that was during 2020. I seem to recall. Was that that early? think it is. I think it is. You were streaming for, for those of you, ah who weren't watching Jess six years ago.
01:32:21
Speaker
Yeah. Weird. First of all, I, I like, because I remember my recollection of maybe it was in early 2021. So you could look, I mean, you know, yeah I can get the answer to this, but I like flailing around more, but, ah I, my recollection of watching you play wizard and the princess is connected with a feeling of being stuck in the house.
01:32:48
Speaker
And so that's why I'm like, I was probably 2020, maybe early 21. Like, yeah it's good. It's probably be June 21 is a little bit further down, but still, uh, still, yeah, no, I was probably leaving the house a lot more than, yeah but we were all still,
01:33:04
Speaker
It was, it was, really insane it was yeah it was, it was, ah it was a weird time. Yeah. for this game got like How many streams, how many times did attempt to stream this before I was finally able, but like, I think I tried like four times before I ever got a playthrough on a platform and an emulator that didn't crash out on me.
01:33:22
Speaker
And I mean, by the time I was done, I have to say, ah not my favorite game. the but mean But when you play time zone, you'll really, you'll, you'll, all those screens, all those screens in time zone. um Yeah. I mean, it, but it was from the princess is a great example. i mean, the, the fact that it establishes lore that later becomes a big part of King's quest five and some things like that. It's part of an interesting story about how she,
01:33:54
Speaker
you know, grew as a designer and how her early works continue to inspire what she did down the road. You have the story of how you get from mystery house to Colonel's bequest, I think is a, is a fascinating one to be told. And a collection like that could draw those connections. Yeah. Yeah.
01:34:11
Speaker
And, you know, you just stick the hints in there. And it's also, it's like, you could also just put a, like a full gameplay video of it in there too. um Like if you're, if you just are like, right, well fuck this. And actually, you know, if anyone wants to make this, you're welcome to have my gameplay video of. Oh yeah. Yeah. That would be great.
01:34:31
Speaker
you Yeah, I mean, it was really good. And I was great at streaming early on like that. So it'd be high quality content. But no, that's the one that popped up for me. You know, there are others. I know that, you know, we've talked before, you know, Myst isn't really either of our things. But I think there is a wealth of...
01:34:48
Speaker
Oh yeah. Documentary stuff and behind the scenes stuff and concept art and everything. I mean, Myst is probably the kind game that you could easily create one of these collections out of. And I would look at it in Steam and think it's like, boy, that's going to make a lot of people who aren't me really happy. And you could put um like the manhole in there and some like, ah was it like Cosmic Cosmo or like you you can put some of those like early CN hyper card games in there.
Legacy and Potential of Iconic Games
01:35:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like to kind of, you know, not only add a little to it because it's like, you know, Myst has been released a million times. um but also like you know just be like all right well you know they were the the the brothers were kind of playing around with these ideas um but uh but yeah um ben can i ask you a bonus round that we didn't talk about beforehand all right Is there a game that you would, or a series that you would choose a legacy sequel to? We're not rebooting it. We're not remaking it. We're just like, what if he just gave me one more of these ah and in the modern era? You know, your return to Monkey Island style, this is your legacy sequel. yeah I don't think that's a reboot. That's a clear legacy sequel. that's a straight up legacy legacy sequel. what
01:36:09
Speaker
Is there anything, and I can tell you one that I picked um as you're thinking about this, go since I'm posing the question. I think a loom.
01:36:22
Speaker
Damn it. I actually wrote that down. i had that written down. Made with 2026 sort of sensibilities. Like I feel like in a lot of ways that game feels so much more at home today yeah than it did at the time it was released. I feel like it is a game made for the modern era that just happened to come out a few decades too early.
01:36:41
Speaker
Obviously, we we should have had more looms um yeah yeah this is actually this is a note that i had written down which was um like for remasters i just or like now yeah remasters uh reboots i i wrote loom with the potential of continuation yeah like so just do a remake of loom and then and then make a sequel um like because yeah i think there's a lot of potential for loom um like but you know i want to i want to find out what happens next brian moriarty what happens lucas films brian moriarty ah
01:37:34
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, Loom is the the the the main one ah that I really like. is it all It ends on a it ends on like kind of a cliffhanger. Yeah. Like what happens?
01:37:46
Speaker
I don't know. Pepper's adventure is in time. Where else she That ends on a cliffhanger. Yeah. She comes back to the present and her entire family's dead. She has to solve the time murder.
01:37:58
Speaker
yeah I mean, you know, don't know. Throw her back in time and she has to ah did save Kennedy.
01:38:07
Speaker
ah ah and and like the joke is there's just like a giant line of other time travelers there uh to do the same thing and she like the whole puzzle is like how do you make sure you're the one uh and then there are all the time travelers they're there to make sure the assassination still happens oh yeah and spock's there to kill kennedy spock's spock's there and gene roddenberry's there because he just wants to see if this script is getting made All right. Well, I think that takes us all the way. right. Thank you so much for listening to another great episode of Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast.
01:38:45
Speaker
I've been Ben. I'm joined as always by... Jess, we didn't introduce ourselves. Gosh, I'm decaf Jedi on Twitch where I stream video games. Well, we were all so enamored of the the song that I yeah already had. And you were burrito brained. and Well, you were burrito brained and I was, yeah, I was pasta brained. We were beef brained. Beef brain is real.
01:39:11
Speaker
um please use beef brain protection it's hard to say beef brain um beef brain beef brain we've done we've done a hypnospace episode right 1000 yeah we must i'm gonna put that at like of high level yeah that's uh that's an early that's a that's an early one but yes we did do a hypnospace outlaw that was uh sometime ago anyway um be sure to rate review Five stars. You can send us an email, questquestpodcast at gmail.com. And this is a great one. We would love to hear games that you would like to see remade, rebooted, or ah given that retrospective treatment. I feel like or like probably there's some great ideas that that we haven't thought of. If you're wanting the Operation Stealth remake, now is your time to let us know.
01:40:04
Speaker
The Capstone Games retrospective. Yeah, we want to we want to find out what happens with the fucking Wayne's World. yeah It's going to great when they find out now the creators are willing to go on record. Actually, no, you know they're all mysteriously dead. ah Killed by the same time murderer that got Pepper's family. Oh, yeah, they were all time murdered.
01:40:29
Speaker
um oh man I mean, think about it. Just think about it. I mean, put the pieces together. Follow the money. It's been a while since we listened to this.
01:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, you know, now that I'm hearing it again, it's not that bad. Yeah, you know what? Actually, it's hard imagine that we made fun of this. were hard on Yeah. I mean, that was a little... Yeah.
01:40:53
Speaker
Slatty, but I mean... Yeah, that's cute. That's probably emulation. That's just probably an emulation Yeah, yeah. You know, AdLib had, you know, just kind of funny sounds, but it's fine. Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, I mean, it's...
01:41:05
Speaker
All right. This is good so far.
01:41:30
Speaker
I bet if you went back and listened to every time we've listened to this song, that was the note that always finally gave me.
01:41:40
Speaker
And then my little recording of this, which has a Discord notification sound that I've never bothered to re-record. That makes even better. That makes it even better. yeah Every time I hear it I'm like, oh, oh. um
Community Interaction and Future Discussions
01:41:51
Speaker
Yeah. No, thought the same thing. as oh I was like, oh, got a message from one of my close friends on Discord.
01:41:56
Speaker
And you can join our Discord link in the show notes. Great. All right. We're done. Join us next week when we discuss Quest for Glory. Wait, no, we're not. Actually, hold on. Let me double check my papers here.
01:42:16
Speaker
We're not talking about Quest for Glory 4. Oh, wow. I thought it was Shadows of Darkness next time we're not talking about Shadows of Darkness. We're not. We're talking about Space Quest 4.
01:42:47
Speaker
So, Jess, I've got a question for you. do you think that Roger's hair and outfit just got bleached from exposure to sunlight? Because he's brown hair in one, two, three, but then he's he's a blonde in four, or five, and six.
01:43:07
Speaker
You know, ah think this is probably just classic time travel stuff, Ben. I'm guessing that so many people went back in time and slept with so many mothers and grandmothers and grandfathers and everything else like that and tailors and clothing dye manufacturers and everything else. By the time you're done, it's a miracle that Roger was even recognizable.