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Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars
0 Playsin 9 hours
Ben & Jess talk about a wildly popular game that they're mid on.
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
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Talk with us on Discord!
https://discord.gg/ve9fqjgPp2
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Transcript
Podcast Inspiration and Musical Talents
00:00:30
Speaker
Chicago in the spring, over a quarter time into the new millennium. Quest Quest holds many memories for me of laughs, of lengthy discussions of dinners, and yes, occasionally discussions of adventure games.
00:00:50
Speaker
This is Quest Quest. The Adventure Game Podcast. That's a little teaser. This is, i mean, this is just me stealing. I know you don't listen to that podcast, but this is just me stealing the the blank check, ah how they start their podcast with with a quote from the movie. But you know what?
00:01:09
Speaker
It's a good bit. if If you're anyone, if if you're anyone other than Griffin Newman, you're stealing my bit. Wow. I've been listening to the One Song podcast lately where its hosts break down kind of all the samples and everything used and instrumental parts in various songs and and talk about sort of the musicology behind all of it. And sometimes they start with a parody song. Ben, can we do that? And follow up question. Do you happen to play ukulele?
Generational Identity and Music Experiences
00:01:40
Speaker
You know, I tried a little bit back when everyone was trying. Because ah ah I used to live near here in Chicago. There's the Old Town School of Folk Music, which is a ah music school. And I was like, oh, maybe that would be something like, you know, maybe I'll get like a pick up a ukulele and go to to the Old Town School Folk Music and We learned how to play the the ukulele because it's 2009 and that is what we did then.
00:02:12
Speaker
And you know what? I took the class and was like, ah I'm not good at any of this. Yeah. You see, this is where, you know, sometimes as a zennial, I have these moments where I'm like, Oh man, I really feel more like a millennial generationally. And then other times, you know, I feel more squarely gen X and the fact that I don't know how to play ukulele and I don't know anyone personally who does well,
00:02:44
Speaker
our mutual friend, Sarah plays ukulele. Doesn't she? Yeah. Yeah. She was like yeah okay. so But yeah, i mean, she's my millennial friend. So, uh, yeah, I mean, i be giant song, your millennial friend.
00:02:57
Speaker
ah Well, that's very Gen X. Are you Xenial? I thought you were full on Gen X. Well, what are the years for Xenial? think Xenial is 80.
00:03:09
Speaker
I think you No, I'm a Xenial, aren't I? Oh, no, here it is. I've got it. I've got Wikipedia up. All right. Birth year, 1977 1983. 77, baby, Ben.
00:03:24
Speaker
your you're Your cusp, Zenni. Like, no. No one, yeah no. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, here's here's where it's at. I think for me, mentally, the definition of Zenniol is, I did not grow up with the internet.
Generational Internet Integration
00:03:39
Speaker
but I was exposed to it at an age old enough to incorporate it rationally into my life. Right. I think that's, I think Gen X still has a fraught relationship with where the internet fits into their day-to-day existence. And yeah,
00:03:56
Speaker
can't differentiate between like true and false on social media and don't know how their computer works. And I feel like I rationally incorporated the internet into my life, not healthily,
00:04:12
Speaker
but rationally. Oh, I don't think anyone has health, healthfully incorporated the computer in in their lives. No, no, no. I, I, I, it's like, I'd rather mainline corn syrup every day of my life. I think I would have a more fulfilling life if I did that and got rid of the computer.
00:04:30
Speaker
I've mentioned this recently on social media. You know, my dad has recently turned over all aspects of his diet and fitness to the unpaid version of chat GPT. Just using, I believe has ads in it.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah. Right. which Yeah. Just using that as, as his guide ah toward, toward everything. So, you know, and that's probably very healthful. Yeah.
00:04:55
Speaker
You know, it's, it's, You know, it's it's been said a ah million times, ah ah you know, growing up, as great don't believe everything that you read on the internet. And then like being like, and then the generation that, that, you know, told, you know, little kids my age that all the time, like just having their brains melted on Facebook of all fucking things. Yeah.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah. I thought we were doing a good thing when we cordoned them off onto Facebook. Like, it's like, what if your generation just stayed on this one platform? But little did I know what, like, a festering pit we would create when we made that choice.
00:05:38
Speaker
Well, anyway.
Trip to Los Angeles and Food Experiences
00:05:40
Speaker
ah so So, yeah, i'm I'm back from my assignment ah in in Los Angeles. i was just The City of Angels.
00:05:48
Speaker
I was in so Sunny Alley. Yes, it was... uh on on the friday i was there it was 90 whole degrees oh that's too hot yeah i was it was you know to to to quote uh the song from kiss me kate it was too darn hot um and uh of course that was the day that uh we earmarked to go for a hike
00:06:19
Speaker
And um it was, it was just very funny because it's like, so, you know, when I, I'll, I'll go for long walks here in Chicago all the time. I'll walk eight or nine miles in a day, not a problem, but here's, here's ah a defining characteristic of, of Chicago and most of the Midwest of the United States, which is to say that it is flat as a pancake, like just completely flat.
00:06:49
Speaker
um ah Los Angeles, if you're unfamiliar, ah is not
00:06:59
Speaker
It is ah up and down. And as someone that... It's got hills. Yeah, it's got hills hills. Straight up and down. You're climbing up the Hollywood sign. and yeah yeah i was I was staying at a place the first half of the week that was at the top of like one of those hills that would just straight up and straight down. And I i don't really drive. So I was walking to places, which l LA is not designed for.
00:07:28
Speaker
now we say you don't really drive are you saying you don't drive i have a driver's license i have passed a test but when was the last time you drove a car been
00:07:39
Speaker
um nearly 20 years really nearly 20 years Really? they' never driven on the highway. Really? Oh, yeah.
00:07:53
Speaker
Ben, this is a... I've lived in a city with a robust enough transit system my entire adult life.
00:08:05
Speaker
wow um anyway um so so a lot of people are are like you know marking down and it's just like oh this is this is another piece of the puzzle of um but uh So yeah, I was like walking up and down this massive hill like every day there. And or when I was staying at that place before i i crashed up my little brother Mark's. And ah but we went hiking and we went hiking at ah Griffith Park.
00:08:39
Speaker
um And that was one of those hikes to like where you're spending like it was a four mile hike, but like two miles of it were up in 90 degrees in no shade.
00:09:00
Speaker
and And, ah it was, uh, horrible. It was, i mean, I will say it was a beautiful, it was a beautiful view.
00:09:14
Speaker
And I was like, uh, uh, like kind of horizontally across from the Hollywood sign, which was pretty neat. Wow. That is pretty cool. but,
00:09:25
Speaker
i Like, Jesus fucking Christ. Like, holy shit. That was so miserable. And then, like, and it's the worst thing. Anytime I do any sort of, like, really physically exerting thing like that,
00:09:40
Speaker
where and by the way i'm with uh my little brother mark and uh his girlfriend and they're not having a problem because they're fucking angelinos they've now been there for a while yeah this um it hills who cares listen i you know it was 30 degrees when i left i like Your body wasn't even ready to be in this. My body was not prepared for 90, 90 whole ass degrees. Forget like cardio and, and musculature. This is just simply like, mean, your body didn't know it could be that hot in, uh, in March.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah. Or, well, it was February. mean That's even crazier. Um, and, uh, so, so yeah, but you know what? I, uh, uh, then like when we made it up to the top, beautiful view.
00:10:28
Speaker
Very nice. ah the The way down was obviously extremely easy. yeah run my nail dan then we had ah raw oysters, which was great.
00:10:41
Speaker
Mark treated me well because he said, he's like, what do you want to eat in L.A.? And I was like, anytime I'm on a coast, I want to have seafood. ah Pretty much every meal I had with him was seafood.
00:10:53
Speaker
I mean, we had yeah ah go ahead. I'll just say I had some West Virginia ceviche right before we came on, which sounds like a euphemism, but really it was just like ceviche from a West Virginia restaurant. Okay, was it good? i willing I mean, it's fine. It wasn't bad, but I bet wasn't good like coastal ceviche would have been.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. um And then Mark ah and his girlfriend made like this linguine with clams and mussels.
00:11:22
Speaker
And it was amazing. So you're having all the bivalves, all the univalves. You're just. oh yeah I was I was velving it up. It's like a Gabe Newell came up to our table.
00:11:33
Speaker
ah That's gaming related. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I do some, ah like, ah I'm, i'm i let's let's keep this a secret, but I'm auditioning to be the third Penny Arcade.
00:11:46
Speaker
Oh, really? Yeah, because they've been doing Penny Arc. Oh, what? yeah I mean, you have like the really like erudite one and then the really angry one, but also the erudite one is also angry. Yeah. I would be erudite and peevish.
00:12:05
Speaker
Oh, okay. So more Tycho than Gabe, but still with like your own like spin to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um but yeah, they've been doing Penny Arcade for so long that they they said we're we're going to audition for a third Penny Arcade.
00:12:23
Speaker
And so, ah you know, like when I when I make gamer humor like that. um you know that's that's me you know warming up for my big audition in front of gabe and tyco well i'd wondered any arcade i'd wondered lately why you just like out of nowhere kept saying it's like you know just for the record i endorse everything that gabe and tyco have ever said and done uh so i was like huh that's a weird thing for band to just keep repeating i don't even think they do that anymore But yeah, no, I'm, ah I hope you get it. either hope you Yeah, no, meet me too. it I think that could be really big things for me. I mean, yeah. To be third Penny Arcade in 2026. Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
And you get to start in the current art style. So people wouldn't be like posting comparisons. Like, do you remember when the Ben character debuted and he looked like this and now he looks like this? And then just you'd already look like they look now. Well, yeah, but I'm going to, like, I'm in it for the whole long haul. they'll be comparing me to like you know in 2050 uh what's your shirt oh uh my my shirt is gonna be uh dig dug oh dig dug's great yeah yeah it's gonna be dig dug dig dig catchphrase dig dug
00:13:42
Speaker
tita So he says right before he just blows the hell out of those things. Yeah. Just like what a horrible way to die being inflated until you burst. yeah
00:13:55
Speaker
And Dick Doug kicks ass. All right. exactly You know, speaking of food, ah i I've i've re dig dog ah i've ah recently received a
New York City Sandwich Report
00:14:10
Speaker
message. We actually have a bit of a backlog backlog because we had our incredible discussion with Dominic where we weren't going to go into the sandwich report.
00:14:22
Speaker
and then um And then you have the solo. So we have like an email. We have a sandwich report. We got to talk about the game I've been playing. Oh, my gosh. Let's get to it. So we have a sandwich report sent to us from our sandwich correspondent, retired ah Francisco Gonzalez.
00:14:41
Speaker
Hello, Quest Quest. This is your retired sandwich correspondent, Francisco Gonzalez, coming out of retirement for a very special sandwich report. I have a very special guest with me this time around.
00:14:54
Speaker
It's none other than Decaf Jedi. How are you today, sir? I'm fantastic. It's an honor to be on the podcast. Now, you are currently visiting New York City, and this evening we have been to an establishment that I like called Crip Dogs, and we've eaten hot dogs. Now, there is a longstand longt standinging i've had a bit to drink longstanding debate whether a hot dog is a sandwich. We won't get into that right now, but for purposes of ah this, what was your hot dog experience like?
00:15:30
Speaker
Well, Francisco, it was fantastic. i was lucky enough to try their BLT dog. That's going to be a bacon-wrapped hot dog with lettuce and tomato. And you're thinking to yourself, lettuce, tomato on a hot dog?
00:15:44
Speaker
got tell you, it worked. That's very pleasing to hear. I myself had my two regular favorites, which were the Chihuahua and the Good Morning. The Chihuahua, also bacon-wrapped, but with avocado. And ah actually, they just they added cilantro, which is not a normal ah ingredient from my experience, but it added a nice little little zing, i guess you could say. And the Good Morning has a fried egg and ah cheese on it. So, all in all, a very nice hot dog experience. Oh, wait. I've just been informed we have a third guest on our podcast experience. We have none other than Jess Haskins, copy editor extraordinaire of the Game Editors. What did you have at Cryptogs?
00:16:33
Speaker
Oh, yes. Hello there. Well, I had the veggie special, which I was informed was vegan. And the last time I went to Crift Dogs trying to get into the speakeasy hidden behind the phone booth, which I never successfully got into.
00:16:49
Speaker
So I just gave up and had a hot dog. i was not vegan. So this is my first time trying their vegan selection. It was a veggie dog with Hummus, pickle, and pepperoncini.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it was delightful. I don't know what their dog was. It was the best vegan dog I've ever had and just as good as any of the non-vegan ones I've had. So, highly recommend. Now, on a scale of 1 to 10, how sure were you that that hot dog was actually vegan?
00:17:24
Speaker
I'll admit when I had the first bite, I had a little moment of doubt, but it definitely looked very different from the other regular meat dogs. So it would be very strange for them to have a separate meat dog.
00:17:37
Speaker
So, yes. So I was quite confident in its vegan-ness and very pleased. So there you have it. ah Thank you, Quest Quest. This is your sandwich correspondent going back into retirement.
00:17:52
Speaker
Thank you for having me. And I'll see you next time when you talk about space plus four, ah you know, one of the biggest pieces of feedback we get is everyone says we need more Jess in this podcast. So not only did we have me as a special guest, but also, ah Jess Haskins there. Uh, so that's double Jess, double Jess. Oh, but it's regular Jess still is Jess Haskins.
00:18:20
Speaker
Uh, is she a one s Jess? Yes. I think she's a two S Jess. He's a two S Jess. Okay. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. One S Jess. How do you, how do you feel? What's your feeling on one S Jess's as a two S Jess?
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question. The only one S Jess I can think of, I believe there was a contestant on the first season of rock of love with Brett Michaels. and That was a one S Jess. um And she was, I was really rooting for I was hoping that she and Brett Michaels of poison would find true love.
00:18:51
Speaker
But I mean, I think Jess's and all their forms are really are really special. folks so You stand you stand with with one s Jess's, even though I just verified. yeah my my recollection was incorrect. um That's the first thing I asked her.
00:19:09
Speaker
was like, you are a two s Jess, right? Yeah. Now. I'm looking at CripTogs. So CRIF. Frankly, the best, which I love. That's what it says. And, you know, i will say, i don't know...
00:19:30
Speaker
ah Like, i'm I'm sure this is great, and I'm sure I would love one of these. The Elote Dog, ah in particular, would be where I would go, which is ah bacon wrap, criff dog, chipotle mayo, corn, and cotija cheese. that That sounds lovely. i i many years ago, here in Chicago, there used to be a place called Hot Dug's,
00:19:57
Speaker
ah that did insane hot dogs with all sorts of kooky crap on them. Yeah. and ah And I think it might have been on ah No Reservations. I forget. I forget if that was... um But ah anyway... ah I had enough of those that now I feel like I just like a a classic or a classic Chicago, which we've discussed extensively at this point.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'll admit you've heard me talk before about our local. ah And yeah, you have one of those too. Yeah. Hillbilly hot dogs, which just has all kinds of shit on a hot dog. And I'll be honest.
00:20:42
Speaker
most of those, like the more ingredients aren't the better. I am a simple hot dogsman in a lot of cases. And i will say I'm not always a fan either of the like deep fried um Frank, which Crift Dogs does. Theirs was much better than any version of a deep fried Frank that I've had. And while mine was still pretty must mean again, i had a BLT. Yeah.
00:21:08
Speaker
It was pretty tasty. i mean, it was it was a little complication, but not in a way that took away from the simplicity of just enjoying a good dog. But...
00:21:18
Speaker
I am a true believer that the Chicago hot dog is, and again, we've covered all this in the Domino episode. It's hard to beat. I think it's just too good. Here's something I will say about Cryptogs is that their rewards program is called Cryptocurrency.
00:21:38
Speaker
That's wonderful. Which is pretty funny. I'll also say the vibe there is very good. it's in It's in the village. It has kind like a a punk rock exterior awning sort of look to it. It it was it was good vibes, definitely. it gives you that, like, what you want when you're in the village in New York getting a hot dog. sort And apparently it does have a speakeasy that you enter through a phone booth inside the restaurant. You have to know a password. Yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker
We talked about this also. Yeah, I know. I know. We, we've, you know, this is the thing is, is that our, our oops, all food discussion podcast really like cleared the cab.
00:22:18
Speaker
It really did. A lot of our food discussion. Yeah. Um, all right.
Vibes in Video Games
00:22:22
Speaker
Uh, let's, uh, let's, let's read the email. Oh, quest quest podcast at gmail.com.
00:22:31
Speaker
Uh, this, uh, email is, uh, from our friend, Neil. Good evening, as that's when you normally record. In your episode on Conquest of Camelot, Ben asks Jess whether a game that has some problems design-wise can be saved by its vibes.
00:22:50
Speaker
I'd argue that vibes are really the only thing that can save video game. At the end of the day, Even the most engaging FPS games boil down to, quote, move the cursor over this object and click, end quote.
00:23:05
Speaker
What saves them are the vibes of the game, parentheses, atmosphere, level design, art style, et cetera. There are plenty of modern games that look great and are technically impressive, but I've found to be boring and unengaging.
00:23:17
Speaker
Assassin's Creed Shadows, Star Wars Outlaws are two recent examples that come to mind. The vibes didn't help the gameplay. I won't name modern games that are less technically impressive, but nail the the vibes because I don't want to come off as mean or overly critical.
00:23:31
Speaker
But I'm sure you and the listeners could think of a few. Doom and Quake pulled up better than other FPS games of the era because of the vibes. And we remember games like Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat's an incredible example. Yes. ah More than FX Fighter because of the vibes. I really appreciate games that feel like a lot of attention was put on the writing and the atmosphere.
00:23:56
Speaker
Perhaps that's because I grew up in the 80s and 90s when graphic fidelity seemed to be the most important thing for a game. And I really love it when a game can nail both. Rosewater, my retired sandwich correspondent, and Station to Station, of course.
00:24:13
Speaker
Thanks, fellas.
00:24:16
Speaker
Fantastic email. Thank you, Neil. Yeah. I mean, i don't know. I agree with all. Yeah, did I do too. I mean, that's like the least interesting response on my end, but it's like, yeah, absolutely. i mean yeah And I do think that,
00:24:29
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of that going around. I mean, we mentioned you know, Conquest of Camelot is textbook example of this. You know, I think that Longbow has has this in spades as well. But and honestly, I think that's, you know, lot Sierra's adventure games in general are a mixed bag in terms of design. and Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, while they were cutting edge technologically, they weren't always the best looking or best sounding games out there. i don't know if they had the soundest puzzle stuff, but, you know, the ones that have vibes stick with us, you know, and some of the ones that failed to develop their vibes are the ones that kind of get maybe less attention these days. But no, I think it definitely crosses. I think the Doom and Quake example is...
00:25:15
Speaker
just dead on you think there's a reason why certain games from that era you know when there were just countless first person shooters uh that you know even quake one which is like a mishmash of story elements and visual styles and you know things that a project that was redefined multiple times from conceptualization to completion you know, it's still plays really well and ah in a way that makes it special game, largely just on like the feel of it, the vibes, all that sort of stuff.
00:25:48
Speaker
You know, I, I recently listened to, ah there's this really great, uh, video game history podcast that I enjoy called, uh, they create worlds. Um, and their most recent episode at the time of this recording was on, and I might be mispronouncing this name, but it was on this guy named Masanobu Endo, ah who what was, like, I believe he's still alive. ah One of the most, ah like, important ah and big deal game designers in Japan.
00:26:27
Speaker
and One of his biggest credits is the arcade shoot-em-up Xevious. Yeah. zeous And one of the things about his conception of Xevious and why Xevious was a huge hit in Japan was that he like kind of came up with
00:26:58
Speaker
this like kind of story and this mythology and this idea of all Xevious and who the bad guys are and who you are and all of this. And not a lot of it, I believe is actually available to the player. A lot of that just kind of lived with him.
00:27:15
Speaker
um But like it, you know, as as they argue and they create worlds, ah which I really highly recommend this podcast. It's great. ah is Is that like it it kind of informed and created this this whole like kind of idea for the game. Like this whole ah concept, a vibe, if you will.
00:27:46
Speaker
um And, and yeah, I mean, you know, like, I think someone might like, you know, there, if, if you like doom and quake, I think someone might counter with, it's like, well, you know, they were a big deal, not just because of their vibes, but because of their like technological advancements, both of those games.
00:28:13
Speaker
But, you know, both of those games were also like massive super vibe games, you know, like, yeah, you can't, as you're talking about Xevious, you know, and how there was this elaborate backstory that maybe didn't make it into the game, but informed its creation. yeah i was just thinking about like Tom Hall's doom Bible that, you know,
00:28:37
Speaker
include all this backstory and character development stuff about Doom that ultimately a lot of it gets jettisoned as that game is developed and most of the story doesn't appear anywhere. But, you know, I think that that sort of thinking up front rather than flying by the seat of your pants as you design a game like this can translate. I mean, I feel like that's the strength of Camelot. Like we said, you think that all the love that Christy Marks poured into researching this and coming up with a unique historically informed while still mythological version of ah a King Arthur story. ah You know, I think all that work on the front end paid off on the back end in a big way.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, it's a game with a great back end. but You know, I think I think a discussion of game vibes might be a whole episode. So let's put this in our little when you and i are banging our heads against the wall. Like, what the fuck are we going to talk about this week?
00:29:41
Speaker
and And you're just like, is it time for a lighthouse? And I'm like, no, Ben, you know that we are in you know, sort of a standoff here until I get my Space Quest 4 episode. You don't get your lighthouse, the dark bean. Yeah, episode i I have a lot to say about lighthouse the dark being. Yeah, so many things. And I'm not gonna say thing one. As far as you're concerned, I've never played it. and I don't know anything about it.
00:30:05
Speaker
But that's not true. the The truth is, I know everything that there is to know about lighthouse the dark being. It's just I'm going to not not give any of it away. Ben is holding up. You can't see this because, you know, we we see each other when we record, but you're just getting audio. He's holding up a manila folder that has written on it and what looks like Sharpie things. I know about lighthouse, the dark beam. And I will say it looks like there's a lot of pages and say looks hefty as he waves it around.
00:30:34
Speaker
It's a hefty, hefty home run. um Yeah. me Reference yes for if you're a listener to but Cubs baseball. I thought it was the reference to the hefty, hefty cinch sack. what is So one of my favorite things. So we're i'm so excited. We are so close to the beginning of baseball season. I'm ah um' a baseball. da da That's right. da da So I listen i listen this to ah ah Chicago Cubs radio all the time when the the season's going.
00:31:11
Speaker
And the, uh, the way that like, so, you know, everything is sponsored because like everything is sponsored, you know, these days, every fucking thing has to have like some underwriter.
00:31:24
Speaker
So any action that takes place on the field has a corresponding, ah like with the Babylon bulk of the game. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, exactly. Exactly.
00:31:37
Speaker
and And what's really funny to me about it is that like the ah Pat Hughes, like the lead, you know, ah the lead commentator, like the the, you know, the lead announcer,
00:31:55
Speaker
is like he's an old hand he's been doing this for decades he's in the broadcasting hall of fame and so he just like works these sponsored like announcements yeah and and things so seamlessly into everything it's very funny very very funny it's just like and that was another hefty hefty hefty home run I mean, what's funny about this is like when I go see our local minor league team, the Dirty Birds. um That's a good name. Oh, it's a great name. I mean, you know, you've heard their mascot, right? Like I've told this before. What's the Dirty Birds mascot? Is it bird? It's a canary with a coal mining helmet on. So it's like the canary in the coal mine. The dirt is all the coal dust. Yeah. um But it is dying.
00:32:41
Speaker
It's not. Yeah. That's what they don't talk about. But at the dirty birds games, it's like the exact same thing, only it's all local sponsors. So it's like, you know, it's like, Oh, it's a big double. Yeah. That's the, that's the Tudor's biscuit world. Double of the day. Come in tomorrow morning with your ticket stub and get a free double biscuit. You know, it's a product. I mean,
00:33:03
Speaker
We don't talk a lot about it, but we get a lot of offers from sponsors here. And I mean, ah I bet a lot of the podcasts you listen to, they fill those things with ads. And you know what?
00:33:13
Speaker
um For the time being, Ben and I choose not to.
00:33:19
Speaker
I'm not saying we never would, but right now we've been turning all those offers down. oh
00:33:29
Speaker
That's our pledge to you for now. ah Our pledge ah lemon scented cleaner to you.
00:33:39
Speaker
right. all right But, you know speaking of spaun sponsorships, what have you been playing?
Pokemon and Metroidvania Game Experiences
00:33:47
Speaker
Ben, I'm just going to come back to what i talked about last week in my solo quest. boom.
00:33:52
Speaker
boom but perioded Ben, I'm still playing Pokemon Emerald. And you know, you'll never guess who I recruited. Who did you recruit? Who I caught them all, or whatever you call it. Who who I pokeballed. I think you just it caught him. You caught your Pokemon.
00:34:08
Speaker
I caught them all.
00:34:12
Speaker
I got Pikachu. Wow, a celebrity. And let me tell you. As someone who had never played Pokemon until now, right I thought those little mice would just be running all over this game. Like I thought like you would have like seven Pikachus in your backpack when the game began.
00:34:33
Speaker
had no idea at least in Emerald, this is a very rare catch. You can only get it in a special Safari zone, which don't want to talk about whether that's humane or inhumane. That opens up a whole can of worms around Pokemon that i don't want to explore. it I had to go on safari zone and there was still like a 1 in 20 shot wandering through one patch of tall grass. And you know what did, Ben?
00:34:54
Speaker
I walked back and forth through that patch of tall grass until I got the RNG to trigger and I got my very own Pikachu. I can't believe it. Are you looking at a guide? Like, are you are you optimizing on a guide here?
00:35:08
Speaker
Of course I'm optimizing. it Ben, I i saw a Safari Zone, and you know, immediately Googled, like, what is the Safari Zone in Emerald? Dude's like, it's your one chance to catch a Pikachu. And I'm like, want to catch a Pikachu. I've got to catch them all. How many how many gyms have you gone to?
00:35:24
Speaker
I think i'm a my think I just completed my sixth gem. Okay, so you're you're like you're pretty far in. I'm like 25 hours into this game. I'm like doing some serious Pokemon-ing, and I like it quite a bit.
00:35:40
Speaker
It's pretty good. Maybe I'll play another Pokemon someday. Well, so I know this isn't the case. So there there are eight gems. I know this isn't the case for, ah like, for for all, like, Pokemon folks, but for me,
00:36:00
Speaker
Pokemon is a game where I like, I'll get a, like, I'll get the the Pokemon itch. Yeah. ah and And be like, ooh, i I gotta, I gotta play. I really gotta play Gotta catch them all. This is I wanted to actually bring this up because I wanted to hear more of your experience with Pokemon. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I'll play um a Pokemon, which I think is the correct, instead saying Pokemon.
00:36:25
Speaker
Pokemon. Yeah. But I'll play it. and i I may finish it or I may not. And then that playing of that Pokemon is enough for me for like four four or five years. Yeah. yeah and And then I get the edge. because Here's the thing. and i And I understand that like the most recent games are a little bit different.
00:36:54
Speaker
Like and have that like have have kind of changed change things up a little bit. um But like... A lot of the the Pokemon games are very, very similar.
00:37:09
Speaker
Like, you know, they they they advance, they'll they'll change things. and Don't fucking email me. I'm right. Yeah, they're just remakes of the first one, is what Ben's saying. Yeah, they're they're all...
00:37:23
Speaker
But it just kind of scratches that itch for me when I play it. And then because, you know, as you know, playing it right now, it's a very, it's just a very straightforward game.
00:37:36
Speaker
Like, yeah, there's not a lot to, yeah, I mean, it's like yeah, there's not, Baby's first RPG. what about kind of Yeah, yeah, it's exactly right. Yeah, i mean, that's all I need. It's like if you... Like, I love turn-based combat, but usually the games that it lives inside of are more of a, like, mental investment that I want to make.
00:37:54
Speaker
And Pokemon is the perfect version of, like, what if we had really simple turn-based combat bat with very little you actually have to think about beyond that? It's like, perfect, I'll take it. Yeah. Like, it's just... So, you know,
00:38:10
Speaker
I was a little, so when, when Pokemon became very, uh, popular in the United States, I was just a little too old for it.
00:38:23
Speaker
Yeah. Mark was, was Mark was who, and Mark is two and a half years younger than me. Um, Mark was just the right age.
00:38:35
Speaker
Uh, so he got into it a little bit. Um, But like that was a little too kid stuff for me. But I did like, did have Pokemon Yellow, which you got Pikachu as your starter on that.
00:38:56
Speaker
So there you go, Jess. For Game Boy Color. And so I would noodle around on that, but you can't have multiple saves. So yeah yeah I didn't really, like that was his game.
00:39:08
Speaker
I think you only still have one save on Game Boy Advance. Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure you do. Is that about like a trading thing and everything? like I have no idea. I couldn't tell. Who Who knows?
00:39:20
Speaker
But so it's like I played a little bit of the i it. I was like, huh. And then I don't think I don't think I really got into it until like I like played.
00:39:38
Speaker
One of them on like one of the DS when I was in college. I don't remember which one. But yeah, like it's, you know, I enjoy I enjoy Pokemon, but it like it's a thing where like I'll i'll play it. and I'll be like, this is great. And then I'll be like, that's all I need.
00:40:03
Speaker
yeah you know there you go. Well, Ben, why don't you Pokemon go ahead and tell me what you've been playing? Well, I've been Pokemon going to the polls. It's primary season here.
00:40:24
Speaker
I do. i know Yeah, know. I was just laughing at the idea of democracy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, So usually when I take a ah big trip, I'll buy a ah game or two and load them up on my Steam Deck as like a little treat and something to kind of keep me occupied on the plane.
00:40:51
Speaker
And this time i was like, i'm not going to buy anything because I've already, i I have enough like shit I've bought and barely played on Steam.
00:41:03
Speaker
And so I played a ah couple things, but there was one that really got its claws in me that has been in my Steam account and I noodled with it a little bit.
00:41:13
Speaker
and and bounced off it, and then I just spent like three or four hours in the last week playing it, really getting into it. This is interesting because this is a genre I've never really i gotten into, but I've been playing Prince of Persia, The Lost Crown, which is the Metroidvania Prince of Persia that came out like I think two years ago.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, I remember this coming out and thought it looked kind of interesting. As someone who didn't like doesn't have a Prince of Persia connection or really a Metroidvania connection, I thought, actually, it was kind of neat. Yeah, like, I mean, there's, for some reason, i have kind of an affinity for Prince of Persia, even though I've never really gotten into any those games.
00:42:01
Speaker
Like, I've just always been like, I think, I just think they're neat, like Marge would say. Like, and so, like, I really enjoy, and i was playing during the trip more of, and this is actually what got me on The Lost Crown, because I was playing a lot more of the rogue Prince of Persia, which is their...
00:42:21
Speaker
Prince of Persia, but what if we did Dead Cells? And then I was like, well, you know, I have the other recent 2D Prince Persia. I should play this. And um I really liked it. I'm really enjoying it. I think it's a shame because apparently it didn't hit whatever Ubisoft's, yeah, like targets for it were. So it's sadly a one and done, but it's so obvious that like that the people making it like, you know, put a lot of heart in it. Like there's, it's very, very clear.
00:42:58
Speaker
Like it's, it's got a good vibe. Like it's got great music. It looks great. Moves great. It has very good game feel like something that I would expect from a game with the lineage of Prince of Persia is that like the the main character has to move really well and that handling has to like has to to be able to roll, has to be able to do acrobatics, you know, climb up on a wall like, you know, Prince of Persia, the game itself like lends itself to this should be a Metroidvania eventually.
00:43:36
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it should all feel effortless as this character does those things. Like that should be, you know, yeah, i mean, that is very much, i think, the defining feature of what I think of when I think of Prince of Persia is that movement element and how that feels, you know? Yeah.
00:43:53
Speaker
That you'll be walking and then, you know, then you'll just fall into a pit and then spikes appear and you're dead. Yeah. hu Yeah, I don't know. I'm really enjoying it. i'm enjoying like and I've never i've tried Hollow Knight. I've tried all the like the big exciting Metroidvanias
00:44:12
Speaker
and just bounced and bounced and bounced. And I know that Hollow Knight's great. not saying it's not. Um, but, you know, just kind of bounced off of everything. And then I just started playing, uh, uh, of Persia, the last crown. And I was just like, Oh, huh.
00:44:33
Speaker
I think it was partially because I was, as I said, just really getting into the rogue Prince of Persia. I don't know if I'm ever going to finish this or or whatever, but I've already had like a good enough time where I'm like, oh, maybe i might, maybe I do like these games.
00:44:49
Speaker
Did you ever play Sands of Time? Was that era of Prince of Persia? played Sands of Time. Sands of Time is incredible. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's its reputation. It's, I am, it is a bummer to know that, like, I mean, did we did we need like a remaster of Sands of Time? lot remasters don't always seem like they're necessary. Yeah, i mean we we might talk about that with regard to today's topic. it might be Who knows? um
00:45:21
Speaker
But, you know, I was just kind of disappointed because I was like, oh man, then we'll all get to talk about how cool Sands of Time is again. Um, but, but yeah, uh, Prince Persia, the Lost Crown, uh, is, is a cool game. I mean, what really sucks about it is that it like, and sucks about playing it on the deck, which is, you know, the, like, really the ideal thing to play it on, is that it has to be on Ubisoft Connect, so you have to be online to play it, so you couldn't play it on the plane. Wow.
00:45:57
Speaker
Stupid. Stupid. Dumb. Dumb. Come on, guys. Come Come It's 2026. Like, I mean, if you're going to have that for, like, whatever multiplayer, like, I mean, was this what's the multiplayer Ubisoft thing that they probably to have, like, anti-cheek for whatever? U-soft or, well.
00:46:17
Speaker
Well, no, no, no, the game. oh Oh, yeah. Whatever. i't gim I don't know. Give me it. Just give me it. Yeah. And also, let's have a sequel of this. This is really good. They clearly knew what they were doing.
00:46:30
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it was made by, you know, I'll throw in a bonus. ah Made by the, like I was looking at this, it was made by the the same studio that works on Rayman Games. And I recently was playing the 30th anniversary Rayman release that Digital Eclipse did.
00:46:47
Speaker
And playing it, I was just like, Jesus Christ, I fucking hate Rayman 1. Yeah. ah you don't jet stream I don't get don't know what it was. Rayman 2 is awesome.
00:46:59
Speaker
I liked Rayman 2. That game was great. The first Rayman, just bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Sorry. Just connect your body parts. Just connect your body parts.
00:47:11
Speaker
No, no. Hey, Rayman. The fun part. Your body parts. All right. Well...
Discussion on Broken Sword Series
00:47:17
Speaker
We've been podcasting for nearly an hour, so I suppose we should get to the what we're discussing, which is, of course, the 1996 film Broken Arrow starring John Travolta and Christian Slater with a fantastic supporting role from Los Angeles Raiders standout Howie Long.
00:47:37
Speaker
Broken Arrow. No, we're talking about Circle of Blood. Oh, you mean broken sword? Yes, yes, broken sword.
00:47:50
Speaker
Shadows of... Shadow or shadows? Well, that's a great question. It is the shadow of the Templars or... Templar. I think in the game they all say Templar, which is like... and i' They all say Templar.
00:48:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I say Templar. Isn't that what, I mean, i assume the Assassin's Creed has the official pronunciation on Knights Templar and they say Templar, right?
00:48:18
Speaker
I don't know. I don't play the Assassin's Creed games. I played a bunch of Assassin's Creed games, but i don't remember any of them. Like I know I dove off of a bunch of things into like ox carts.
00:48:29
Speaker
Um, anyway, uh, yes, we're, we're talking about, so yeah, This is one of the canonical adventure games.
00:48:44
Speaker
It is a game that, like, I think in terms of reputation, it stands...
00:48:58
Speaker
Maybe not exactly shoulder to shoulder, but somewhere near there with Secret of Monkey Island. ah Because, and and you say to me, Ben, where are you getting off saying that?
00:49:11
Speaker
because I say that because if you look at if you look at ah games on independent adventure game releases on Steam...
00:49:26
Speaker
they'll often in their written descriptions, like say, this is do you remember monkey Island? A lot of them do that. Yes.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yes. But you will also see, do you remember broken sword? Probably not as much But like Broken Sword ah shadow ah Shadow. Wait, do we get the answer? Is it plural or or singular?
00:49:56
Speaker
It is the Shadow of the Templars. And I believe in the HD remake, they drop the definitive article at the beginning. So it just becomes Broken Sword Shadow of the Templars. So they don't even know completely what the title is. But it's one shadow. Yeah, the Templar casting a like collective single shadow.
00:50:15
Speaker
um But I mean, I think this is one of like the the truly like, you know, main 90s adventure games.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it is like in a category with games like Myst, I think, and, you know, a few others that, you know, yeah, when you think about this deck, it's funny to me, you know, i absolutely agree with you there. I think in terms of its reputation, um you know, and and then you look at like where the franchise goes from here, you know, i mean, there are five of these games, there have been remakes and special editions along the way. This is a a pretty major franchise.
00:50:57
Speaker
But like looking back, what, like my personal experience with it is, was this was somehow not on my radar at all in 1996 when it came out. And maybe part of it is the weirdness of, you know, it's known as Circle of Blood um outside the U.S. I'm sorry, it's known as Circle of Blood in the U.S. Everywhere else we record elsewhere. and I'm sure I must have read about this in computer gaming world. I'm sure i must have read about this in PC gamer. There was, um, I, I really wanted this. I didn't get it. It flew past me. I really wanted, ah this game when it came out. Uh, I remember like,
00:51:42
Speaker
there were really cool ads in computer gaming world. Like this, I think it was like this big, like stained glass window and like this. Oh yeah. Another one. Yeah. And, um, and I, uh, recall that the computer gaming world, uh, uh, review was, uh, pretty positive. I think it was four. I'm saying it was a four out of five. I think that sounds right. Yeah. i mean, um, what was weird to me? Like when know, I took a little break from playing adventure games and came back like in the,
00:52:10
Speaker
early twenty ten s and at the time like it was clear that this was like a marquee series this is you know a game as you said the but like join the canon and it was so weird too because like how did several of these games in this series come out be so completely beloved by so many people and somehow I remained completely unaware of them I I was totally befuddled by it um and I played Circle of Blood ah for the first time. Circle of
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah, sorry, now I'm doing Yeah, um I only played it for the first time last year. So this game is very new to me in that regard. But even then, yeah, it was just, I don't know how I looked past it in the 90s because it's not like this wasn't a pretty big hit at the, I mean, it was a big hit at the time. It's an interesting game because it it is, it's one of those games that,
00:53:05
Speaker
was ported remade so many times. yeah Now it is no, like, so you mentioned Mr. Earlier, like it, it's not on the same, like miss was one of the best selling games of all time. Sales wise. I mean, it's a own category, but in terms of like things we remember is like, yeah, this was a nineties adventure game outside of the Sierra Lucasarts cannon.
00:53:28
Speaker
I feel like miss yeah broken sword are on a very short list of games that are part of that journey. Like this the non Sierra LucasArts games that are like considered part of like the canon part of the pan. Yeah. Like I probably Toonstruck might be on there.
00:53:47
Speaker
ah Maybe Kyrandia too. Like maybe on a lower tier. Yeah. I think both of them are like a step down from. Like Broken Sword, Myst, Longest Journey are like the three and, you know, and QuestQuestPodcast at gmail.com if there's something we're missing here. there's some, there's clearly some glaring example that we're both not thinking of right now. Like the three big deal 90s non, like, you know, not from those two studios. And this isn't to say that those are the three best. Yeah. Tex Murphy may be in that category somewhere too, like as a collective, like, but maybe that's a tear down again. Maybe that, mean, is Tex Murphy in, in, it feels like Tex Murphy wasn't that inspirational.
00:54:37
Speaker
Like, or like, like, you know, yeah i don't think you see a lot of games that like, I don't think you see a lot of games that were ah inspired like Tex Murphy, like certainly not like Myst, which had a million knockoffs. Yeah, air everybody.
00:54:57
Speaker
Not Light Has the Dark Being, which was wholly original situation. We don't have time to talk about Light Has Dark. Because once you get started, you won't stop. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:10
Speaker
But like, ah I mean, this, you know, this game, there there are like, you know, I played on my stream a couple years ago. ah there there There's this game. ah It's pretty good. um Called ah Crowns and Pawns. Oh, so inspired here. Which is like very transparently like, yo, like we're we're doing our Broken Sword game. Yeah.
00:55:37
Speaker
And yeah I think of a game even like Jane Jensen's gray matter, which while the most obvious lineage comes from Gabriel Knight has, i think very broken sorty sort of vibes too. Like I feel like it becomes the cat, you know, it's got those elements of, well that's something I want to talk about because those Gabriel Knight and Broken Sword both play in the same pool in terms of subject matter. They just approach it from a completely different direction. Yes. um But i i want I want to get to that a little a little later.
00:56:10
Speaker
um So, but one thing about this game in particular, the first one is that it was, you know,
00:56:22
Speaker
Like other than Myst, is there an adventure game that's been ported and remade as much as the first Broken Sword game? Other than Myst. It's hard to say. I mean, it's gotta be up there. mean, cause like what we've got director's cut and then later a HD remastered version that comes out very recently.
00:56:41
Speaker
And then like what it's ported is it on the game boy color was its become the game boy advance, which is game boy advance where I played it yeah the first time. Yeah. This came out on PlayStation. it came out. I'm seeing on the Palm OS. Yeah.
00:56:58
Speaker
I mean, i I played... So my first experience playing this game was the port to the Game Boy Advance. And... um You know, it's really funny because I honestly like playing it. I was thrilled.
00:57:19
Speaker
I was thrilled to have this game because I was like an adventure game on the Game Boy Advance. And it's like a classic point and click game.
00:57:29
Speaker
Like, yeah. if you look at screen screenshots of it, like it looks terrible. But I was having a good time. And unfortunately,
00:57:40
Speaker
ah it ah wasn't a great port to the point where it has like a glitched soft lock, which I hit. and that was the end of the game. like i I was like, I'm not going to do all this again.
00:57:56
Speaker
Were you aware you had soft locked or was one that was just like, can't figure out how move forward. Okay. I think I, there was, i don't even think I found it online. I think it was just very clear to me. Gotcha. Gotcha.
00:58:10
Speaker
And, and I forget. I also forget if it was like such that it might've even like made it difficult to like re like completely wash the save. But I mean, I think part of it was that like, I just was like, you know what?
00:58:31
Speaker
I know, like, because I knew what I had to do. And then I think I, like, looked up a walkthrough. I'm like, I'm stuck here. What the hell? and um And doing the right thing didn't work or I couldn't find whatever it was.
00:58:42
Speaker
And it's like, all right, well, this isn't working. This is this is this is not working. And i i was I was just like, well, I don't know what I did to create this situation that I shouldn't, like, that shouldn't exist in this game.
00:58:58
Speaker
yeah So it's like, well, why would i play all these hours of the game again to potentially recreate the same situation? Because it's not like, you know, because it's a glitch. It's not even a ah you forgot to throw the boot at the you know, at the cat.
00:59:18
Speaker
Yeah. It is. And it's not a game that's quick to breeze through if you're a fairly deep in it, you know? And I imagine that the Game Boy Advance version doesn't necessarily move a lot quicker. No.
00:59:29
Speaker
Um, so I, I really enjoyed it that, that, uh, one time. And then, ah like until i and I think it was about halfway through the game around there.
00:59:42
Speaker
And then, um, and then I was just like, The director's cut came out and I was like, well, you know, i would love to play this on another platform not designed for adventure games. So I got it for the Wii.
00:59:58
Speaker
Perfect. Perfect. And ah the director's cut, I do not care for at all. Now, as I understand the director's cut, like it adds some sequences where you play as Nico, right? I believe it starts. So again, this is years like, so I revisited to prepare for this podcast. I revisited ah like ah the reforged version. I didn't play all of it or anything. I just, you know, I kind of, and um so I haven't, I haven't played the director's cut in a bit.
01:00:28
Speaker
um But my recollection of it is that the game starts with you as Nico. And maybe this is a good time to backtrack. Oh yeah. We don't, we didn't talk about what the game is at all. So yeah. What's yeah what's the premise of the game?
01:00:44
Speaker
I mean, you are a American tourist, George stobert Stobard, Stobard, Stobart, Stobart, Stobart, George Stobart.
01:00:56
Speaker
ah You're American tourist, George Stobart. You're hanging out in a cafe in Paris. When there is an act of terrorism, a bombing committed by an evil clown.
01:01:09
Speaker
And like any tourist who's on vacation, your first instinct is it's up to me to solve this crime. And this sets you on a journey ah across Europe, eventually to Syria, um all over the place as you... Mostly Western Europe and then Syria. Yes, that's right. Yeah, the two the two canonical places you might go. um And you unravel this conspiracy with your new partner, a journalist by the name of of Nico,
01:01:41
Speaker
ah French journalist. And yeah, George just sort of stumbles through this vacation turned investigation ah with sort of a charming American confidence.
01:01:58
Speaker
Charming is a little ah debatable. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, that was in scare quotes at some level. But yeah, it's the what ends up being a sort of the the classic, you know, story of, you know, Nats Templar and Hassassians and all kinds of, you know, all your your Gabriel Nats 3 stuff.
01:02:22
Speaker
Yeah. It is like, so yeah, you you get involved Like, you know, you see a bombing at a cafe and you decide that you're going to solve this, even though the police are there to investigate. This is wild. I mean, can you imagine like witnessing a crime abroad and thinking like, I'm going to get to the bottom of this.
01:02:49
Speaker
I mean, i think, you know, i have the sense that, you know, this the the developer is is not this is is not an American studio. Revolution is.
01:03:03
Speaker
And so I kind of think that they're taking the piss a bit. Like, I think by design, George is an American bore. ah Now I don't like this game.
01:03:14
Speaker
like, Oh, how dare they? out Out of a sense of nationalism. How dare, yeah. Well, patriotism. um Yeah, I know. Now if George is meant to be laughed at, i don't know. I mean, that's just my sense. think that's a good call. I think he is definitely the ugly American is his yeah i mean, charming I think he's meant to be charming and clever in the way the adventure game protagonists are constantly like commenting on their own mischievous actions are meant to be ah somewhat charming.
01:03:45
Speaker
But yeah, I think that ugly American tourist is very much a tone that is not accidental here. Yeah, I mean, i don't.
01:03:55
Speaker
I mean, you you meet over the course of the game. other more ugly american tourists that are worse like in uh the the sequence in syria you meet like this married couple from yes like ah ohio or something or like yeah they they have something weird going on i don't remember exactly yeah yeah um uh like i i i think that like he's he's he's supposed to be it's like oh yeah you know he's like boorish and he's putting his nose where he doesn't belong but you know isn't that kind of fun isn't that kind of the fun of it too like it's I I think that's that's kind of the idea of it maybe maybe I'm misreading here but um one of so like uh so yeah back to the the director's cut
01:04:52
Speaker
So it it starts with Nico, because I think, you know, one of the the the issues with the game is that Nico, like the main female character in it, really doesn't get that much to do.
01:05:11
Speaker
No, she's almost there like to remind you what your plot and your next step in that plot is. You go back to her apartment occasionally to catch her up so she can say, you know, I think you should go here next.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah. So she's functioning that way. but I mean, she has that hairstyle that a lot of video game characters from the time had with like the two little pieces of hair that kind of hang down in the front and frame her face, which immediately makes her a compelling character for a lot of players.
01:05:42
Speaker
So it's no surprise that like the director's cut, you know, fleshes out what she has to do and then later games in the series feature her more prominently. So the, the, uh,
01:05:57
Speaker
My recollection of the director's cut is that you start with her, which is a problem only because that the the opening, which I was like kind of like, you know, referencing at the start of this podcast, I think it's kind of iconic.
01:06:11
Speaker
oh Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Like, and it' it's It starts a George talking you about Paris in the fall and like you see this clown and this bomb like go off and then like you're you're right in it.
01:06:23
Speaker
And then but now in the director's cut, it's like, oh, actually, before that, Nico is like investigating this other thing. And then you have to do like a slang tile puzzle, if I remember right. Yeah. and That opening is so like i mean, it's a beautifully animated cartoon.
01:06:40
Speaker
It has like a full orchestral score. It is well written. it immediately sucks you into what's going on here to dump that for something far less interesting is such a choice.
01:06:54
Speaker
Um, yeah. it's It's also that the art of the director's cut um it loses a lot of its personality. like ah it it is It's overall...
01:07:11
Speaker
it like i remember like getting the broken sword ah director's cut And then like being like, oh I have to find, i have to find the original. Like this is, this is not,
01:07:27
Speaker
this is not right. Like this is, this is, i yeah this, this isn't, I like, this isn't what I played on the Game Boy Advance. That's not the real version for the Game Boy Advance. And yeah, I'm just kind of thumbing through on um the, like on YouTube. And it does start with like immediately in a different scene with Nico and she's being like menaced by like a evil mime.
01:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it is like immediately a downgrade in terms of, yeah, i mean, I feel like there's more charm in the original graphics. ah Yeah, did like a lot of these director's cuts, I mean, again, it'll get its reforged edition that comes out several years after that.
01:08:13
Speaker
And that will add an additional wrinkle of, you know, some some improvements with some some unfortunate bits as well. um And so, yeah. And so when they did the reforged edition, which was what a year, two years ago. Yeah. like they the,
01:08:31
Speaker
ah like they did stall of the director's cup material yeah yeah like they they they knew what what people you know wanted um and then i like they it was essentially just them i like making it widescreen and uprezzing it and they used They initially used like an AI thing to like kind of like i do that. But then I think they they went back after people complained. Pretty human touch. You can see parts of the of the reforged edition where there's obviously signs of kind of AI stuff that... like a on oh yeah a little squishiness you would say squishiness to things like you know like architectural details that should be very crisp that are a little bit mushy uh in some places and there are certain sections of the game where it seems to stand out a little bit more i imagine it was part of just like maybe be used differently or more extensively at different parts of the production cycle but um yeah i mean it
01:09:41
Speaker
For the most part, it's a nice looking remake. It has that sort Overall, very, very nice looking... I mean, and the original looks spectacular too. yeah It reminds me a lot of the remake treatment that like Day of the Tentacle or Full Throttle got where you, you know, you move beyond the pixel graphics of the original, but it still feels very much in the same vein. And like a lot of the LucasArts remakes, you can switch back and forth with a button press between the original...
01:10:07
Speaker
graphics and the new ones and I mean it's not bad it's unfortunate that you know you see sort of some of the signs of AI use that creep into the final product but for the most part I mean I think there's a good chance if I wasn't aware that there have been some controversy about use of AI I may have looked past it because I was so engrossed in the story Yeah, and i think and I think they've said, like because I think they're reforging the the second game. They said they're not doing any of that. Yeah, yeah.
01:10:36
Speaker
But, ah ah yeah, no so I'm just scrubbing through. it takes 35 minutes for you to get to the segment with George and the clown. That is that's such a mistake.
01:10:47
Speaker
like such i miss I mean, i would do that segment and then do like JJ Abrams it with like three days earlier at the very least, like show the cartoon and then jump to Nico at the very least. But, uh, you know, that's, that's why I don't design these big games.
01:11:04
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so, you know, I think a lot of the appeal is, So this is in, in, uh, broken sword. You are kind of, traipsing in and doing like, you know light Indiana Jonesing, i guess.
01:11:26
Speaker
Yeah. i think that's a fair, uh, trying to solve, like, you know, you end up in the catacombs under Paris, I believe at one point or like, you know, are solving like an archeological mystery at some level. Yeah. You're Dan Brown in it.
01:11:38
Speaker
Like, you're you're looking at old, ah like, family seals and going into crypts and and yeah solving, you know, there's a chess puzzle and a crypt at one point.
01:11:50
Speaker
You love a chess puzzle. And, um like, the the game has a very, like, has generally a very light touch.
01:12:02
Speaker
Like, it's not a comedy, but it is, like... it it plays everything very light, which is why it's like, I would say it's like kind of it, you know, more in an Indiana Jones type.
01:12:17
Speaker
Yeah. It's way less of a comedy than secret of monkey Island, but it's much more lighthearted than the Gabriel night game. Yeah. And so this is why i like, and so this is, so Gabriel night plays in the the same pool uh,
01:12:34
Speaker
Like it is like world like globetrotting and it's often about, uh, you know, like these, these grand old conspiracies that reach into today.
01:12:51
Speaker
um and i was kind of thinking, like, um, like uh nico in this first game kind of has kind of a grace type role this like she's kind of stuck in one place and like you kind of come back to her and check in now uh does nico get that much in the end game i don't remember because like obviously yeah i mean she's kidnapped right that's part of it kidnapped too did that did i imagine that i don't remember
01:13:27
Speaker
this is bad uh yeah uh the neo-templars abduct uh nico yes so they they both are they're both kidnapped at the end yeah that's how it goes and nico yeah no but in like and then in subsequent games they give Grace and Nico considerably more to do.
01:13:53
Speaker
um And as I understand it, yeah the Gabriel Knack games apparently were not considered really an inspiration by Charles Cecil. I wouldn't think so.
01:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't feel like this is no a case of let's make our version of a Gabriel not. I do think with similar themes and just the similar structure of a ah male protagonist who's clearly your quote unquote main protagonist, especially in this first game and ah ah his his woman slash sidekick slash possible love interest.
01:14:29
Speaker
who is there largely to do research and kind of make sure that you're keeping up with the plot. Yeah. It's hard not to make fun of you a little bit. Yeah. She kind dunks on you on your bullshit in the way that race does.
01:14:44
Speaker
But again, yeah, I think this is kind of parallel thinking. I don't i think so too. Like, they're They're very, they they they have kind of similar ideas, ah but they they ah approach them in totally different ways. Yes, and totally different as well. mi Yeah, the thing in the tone couldn't be more different. One, so one thing about Broken Sword, which I think is extremely,
01:15:11
Speaker
um i think this is the hallmark of of Broken
Character Depth and Puzzle Design in Broken Sword
01:15:15
Speaker
Sword. I think this is maybe its its biggest trick. is that every single side character has something going on.
01:15:26
Speaker
Absolutely. They are interesting characters. Like I, I wouldn't go that far, Jess, but I would say that every single character, like, you know, ah like when they were designing this game, they were like, all right, well, we, what's this guy? This guy's really into Tinker Toys. This, this woman is really into dominoes. Like everybody has some little thing that they're obsessed with and like their weird little obsession that they just keep bringing up.
01:15:55
Speaker
Yes. And like, if you're me, at a certain point, like once you're about halfway through the game, you're like, okay, enough of these guys that just to fucking shut up.
01:16:07
Speaker
yeah so Yeah. I mean, this, ah and maybe this is like a good way to shift things. Cause I mean, we talked a little bit about this before the stream, you know, about whether or not this game was in fact, you know, for us, one of the greatest of all time or the goat, if you will, Ben, do you see what I did there?
01:16:28
Speaker
Oh, I do. I do get that. I get the reference. Are you trying to get onto Penny Arcade as well? Ben, I want to tell you this. I'm the other finalist who's up for that spot. You're also up to be the third Penny Arcade? Yeah.
01:16:42
Speaker
You know, i my thing is I'm going to be erudite and a little sassy. Oh, damn. They could use a little sass. Yeah, know. I'm going to be a little sassy.
01:16:54
Speaker
But yeah, it like this is a game i enjoyed quite a bit and I see why people love it. And there's a lot to love here. For me, it is also the kind game where about halfway through, because this thing's long. I think my playthrough was like 11, 12 hours, whatever it was when I streamed it, ah which is on the long side for an adventure game for me.
01:17:18
Speaker
It is one of those that about the halfway point, it's just, okay, clearly this choice in the dialogue tree is not going to produce the information I need. I just need to click through this so I can get...
01:17:33
Speaker
the talking point I need to hear it is too bad because it's well written it's well voice acted I shouldn't want to rush through but there is so much of it I think the thing that people admire the most about the game is that everybody has something to say about every single and inventory item yes and I love that too that's that's something that that people like if if you talk to them about like broken sword and they talk about the things they like it's like oh did you know could just show any fucking thing to every single character they'll have specific comment about everything yeah you're like walking around with a snot rag for half the game and it's always fun to have people think about that well you have the joy buzzer uh for a bit too joy buzzer yeah um
01:18:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know, like, yeah, i you know, I don't think this is going to make us a lot of friends. This is a remarkably popular game and people adore this game. And that's why they keep making it and why they keep making even more sequels. um Yeah.
01:18:33
Speaker
But I don't know. Something about, like, it was the same thing for me when I was playing it. I was just kind of like, I've had enough of this. Like, I mean, it's like, Oh, we're going to come into a new place. People stand in this room. I would get a lot of that. Like there's that feeling you get in adventure games. Sometimes it's like, Oh God, i just got into a new room and they're like six people in here.
01:18:55
Speaker
And every one of them has a dialogue tree. All of them have just a lot of shit to say. Yeah, I know. And that's that's unfortunate. You know, i do also think it's a challenge for a game like this that is so dialogue forward to effectively achieve sort of the pacing that gives you that sense of your building up toward a climax. I think a really dialogue heavy game like this sort of stays at a very specific tempo throughout the game that makes it hard to give that sort of rising action. you know, the stakes are have never been higher. mean, this is like a plan for world domination sort of stuff.
01:19:35
Speaker
But at no point does anyone seem to be in a particular rush to get anywhere and do much of anything to me. I mean, you just fly back and forth to you know Paris anytime you just need to check in at the flower shop or something like that.
01:19:47
Speaker
Well, you have ah you have a a press pass that just allows you to fly wherever you want. That's how it works. The pilot of plane. Yeah, i mean the amount of money that George sinks into this, like, so this mission he has put himself on.
01:20:02
Speaker
You know, no one showed up and told him you're the last in the line of Schottenjägers, and your responsibility to get to the bottom of this. Yeah, he didn't, George didn't have, like, this horrible nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. There was no call to adventure. ah You know, sorry. ah You know that, that we didn't follow that classic hero structure, but yeah. Sorry, Joseph Campbell. Sorry, George Lucas. George calls himself to adventure.
01:20:28
Speaker
He's like, well, I'm in an adventure game. So rubbing stuff on other stuff. Yeah. Like, and I think, I think the thing like why I you know as I said I think that every single character has like a little game of their own like a little like their own little set of like an improv game he yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah that everybody has one of those makes it that
01:21:02
Speaker
that there's not that many characters that kind of stick around for the whole game. Like there's the villain and then there's the two cops um and Nico.
01:21:15
Speaker
ah And then probably one or two others that yeah I don't recall, but it's like, then there's, you know, ah ah like there's the, the woman um at the hotel. That's what I was thinking of. Exactly. You get deep in her life for a minute. Yeah.
01:21:32
Speaker
who Who I think that's my favorite character in the game. Like there's this sequence at the hotel where like where you're at a hotel, you have to do. um You know, a variety of shady adventure game protagonist things. And this woman who is, i believe, a recent divorcee.
01:21:52
Speaker
and is looking for like something interesting to happen in her life is just like some wealthy ballinger vibes going on yeah she's just delighted to help this handsome american just stir shit up because she just thinks it would be interesting like which that that's a really like and then i'm just like well i kind of want to have more of her like and and that's it that's all like you know, that there are so many kind of well-drawn characters and then they like have their little scene and then they go off. Like yeah actually didn't work that well for me.
01:22:26
Speaker
like Yeah. Cause i mean, like she's exactly the character I thought of when you started ah down this road too, because it's like, Man, she's the kind character that you could easily see like popping up in a later scene or in a sequel or something like that. And maybe she shows up the sequels. Maybe she does. I haven't played the sequels.
01:22:43
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, she is, she's striking and she's just there largely to help you get through these couple of puzzles. I mean, in a game where, you know, if there's a hotel key behind reception desk that you need to get your hands on,
01:22:58
Speaker
An adventure game character is going to solve that in some way, and she's just part of your solution to that puzzle. But yeah, along the way, you get to know her. She gets a chance to really share a lot of personality. And there are a number of these characters that are scattered throughout the game. And yeah, it almost...
01:23:15
Speaker
it's it it's you spend so much time talking to everybody to sort of work your way through their dialogue tree that it's like man i've kind of invested a lot in the several people standing around this irish pub and now it's like i'm off to syria and then you will do a screen series later oh and then it thank you I'm sorry. You didn't step on that line, did you? In this bizarre on the streets of Syria and you're just like, God, Jesus Christ, they all have some fucking thing they're going to talk about.
01:23:48
Speaker
This is a horrible criticism to make of this game because this is where like 90% of its charm lies. This is exactly like we're complaining about the thing that makes this game good.
01:24:01
Speaker
And it's like, if I don't like this about it, I'm not sure what I do like about it. And i kind of like this game. It's the, the, the game. I think and what, what's good about it is that it has a nice variety of puzzles. Like it has your kind of puzzly puzzles. As I mentioned, there's like the chess puzzle and stuff like that. There's dialogue puzzles. There's inventory ah puzzles.
01:24:25
Speaker
There's a nice range of difficulty ah across them. Yeah. It's quite well designed. I mean, and I mean, we should talk about the go. Gorgeous. Yeah. as yeah the music is great the voice performances are all very good like it is i mean i really wish i did end up get like i wish my mom would have let me get this and you know in uh 1996 uh because i would have fucking loved this that's right this is a game i needed to play when i was younger and you like i think i would have gotten deep into this as a teenager young adult
01:24:58
Speaker
I think playing it for the first time at like age 47 as a crotchety old man was just too late in the game. Yeah. What about the goat puzzle, Ben? but I mean, this is ah the goat puzzle. It's one of the rare puzzles that has its own Wikipedia entry, which puts it in rarefied air with cat hair, mustaches, and other things of that sort.
01:25:21
Speaker
Set up the goat puzzle. So the, the goat puzzle, let's, I mean, I'm going to pull this up on, I'm going to pull up the description of it on Wikipedia, the goat puzzle. Um, because yeah, that is the entry.
01:25:35
Speaker
Um, The goat puzzle, also known as the infamous goat puzzle, the infamous goat, the wretched goat, the goat of Lockmarn, or simply the goat. I'm going to need a citation on that. Yeah, I'd like to It's a puzzle. Someone said on the Adventure Gamers forum doesn't mean it's real.
01:25:52
Speaker
All right. um So it's it's it's like, I remember, it's like a timing puzzle, right? So it's like, okay. Okay.
01:26:04
Speaker
While investigating a murderer, George finds himself uncovering a dark mystery. yeah of course. A medieval transcript that he obtained during the investigation leads him to a castle located Lockmarin Island.
01:26:15
Speaker
He can't enter the castle through the main entrance door. He climbs a haystack, which stops short of the top of the wall. But the sewer key, which he obtained at the beginning of the game, in a crack in the wall, forms a step, allowing him to climb over the wall.
01:26:27
Speaker
Side of the castle, this is... You need to tighten this Too preface. Yeah, come on. Too much here. uh grayson if you're listening uh if you could get on this entry yeah inside the castle the entrance of a dig is located tight up goat is sitting near the entrance however the rope is tied is long enough to prevent george from reaching the entrance by uh uh butting him an old piece of farming machinery is located on the left side of the screen but george is unable to interact with it as the goat continues to butt him
01:26:58
Speaker
George must allow the goat to butt him when trying to reach the entrance, but while the goat is returning to its original position, the player must click on the farming machinery, which causes George to quickly jump up and run to the machinery, ah slightly reposition it.
01:27:15
Speaker
When returned to its original position, the goat again charges and butts George, but while doing so, gets its rope entangled with the machinery due to its repositioning, and so now George can re-enter the deck. It's just like a timing thing, and the rest of the game doesn't have this. It doesn't do that. You're not trained to expect this type of puzzle. It's very finicky and annoying.
01:27:42
Speaker
but Yeah, and it doesn't give you like a you know context clue of a sort. Like when you click on the farming plow or whatever, it's like, oh, yeah, i wonder if I could scoot this around and maybe, you know, get a better angle at something. It doesn't give you the sort of clues you need. it It's not a hard puzzle. It's just a puzzle that fills out a place given the nature of the other puzzles you've encountered up to that point. You know, this is an area where I think George diverges from Indiana Jones because I think it'd be a lot like that scene in the bizarre and later Raiders of the Lost Ark Indiana Jones probably would just shot the goat yeah just kick his body aside and go into the yeah really yes yeah I don't know it's like kind of infamous but it's like
01:28:28
Speaker
It's annoying. Like it's annoying. It's an annoying puzzle. It's not a bad puzzle per se. It's the sort of thing that like one dialogue box on the, you know, on the puzzle, either say it's like, Oh, if only the, you know, George said, if there's some way feedback, yeah, just better one message of better feedback. And this is no longer a puzzle with a Wikipedia entry.
01:28:50
Speaker
Um, it's no babble fish.
01:28:56
Speaker
It's no less.
01:28:59
Speaker
Um, I'm now looking, apparently there's a full Wikipedia page on, uh, on, uh, broken sword for the GBA, which is interesting.
01:29:12
Speaker
Yes. I had that up in the background. And it does go into the glitch. And and so this is what, uh, this is what I ran into. ah Despite this, Broken Sword on the GBA has multiple potentially game-breaking glitches, including one that causes the game to become impossible to complete if the player visits Spain before they visited Syria. I did that.
01:29:34
Speaker
This issue is compounded by the official walkthrough, which tells players to go to Spain before it tells them to go to Syria. In a 2018 interview, Cecil apologized to anyone who experienced it.
01:29:48
Speaker
I do not accept your apology. I'm furious. You heard it there first. look If you're Charles Cecil and you'd like to apologize personally to Ben, that address is quest quest podcast at gmail.com. But I'll tell you tread lightly.
01:30:04
Speaker
Yeah. Furious. Anyway. Yeah. I mean, i don't know. It's a, it's a great, like it deserves its space in the cannon, but you know what? That doesn't mean I have to love it. Wow. Wow.
01:30:16
Speaker
wow a bold stance uh no i would agree sometimes you don't like a game but that's fine everybody else does that's right i mean this would be a better game to me at eight hours than it is at 11 or 12 it would be even better at three or four yeah all right well uh any uh any final thoughts before we close the book Ben, I think that I've said all I have to say about Broken Sword, the shadow of the Templars. yeah It's a shadow of the Templars. It's it's cleaner.
01:30:53
Speaker
All right. ah Well, I think... I got you with that. I got you. don't know what it is Yeah, you got me. Got you with that. You got me. um That's good.
01:31:08
Speaker
But anyway, thank you so much for listening to Quest Quest, the adventure game podcast. i you know You can send us an email, as said, at questquestpodcast at gmail.com. Apologize, you know and don't send any, don't be mad that we didn't like the game that you liked.
01:31:26
Speaker
Yeah. But, ah ah but yeah, do you have anything for the record? I did like it more than Ben though. I mean, that's not important. I want to stress it's not important that if you're going to address like an angry email to us, like which one of us liked it more or less. But I feel like I liked it just a tiny bit more than Ben. now i'm I'm pretty sure I liked it more. um Now, also, you didn't play it in its perfect form, which is to say on the GBA. You didn't. Yeah. like I insisted on the one with AI.
01:31:54
Speaker
Like everybody's like, Jess, don't you want to play the original? I'm like, no way, dude. I'm living here in the future. When I played it on the stream, I just played the original. All right. The the the classic.
01:32:06
Speaker
Yeah. No, no, no, no monkey business. No one was monkeying with it. It was just, it was, it was, it was like I was in 1996 all over again.
Norm McDonald Sketch and Listener Engagement
01:32:16
Speaker
was like, I was getting ready to, to vote for Bill Clinton once more.
01:32:21
Speaker
That's right. You're out there canvassing for Bob Dole and playing this game between, between shifts between between door phone calls yeah you remember that great ah snl sketch with norm mcdonald as bob dole on the real world no that's fabulous it's like he's cast on mtv's the real world it's just like norm mcdonald doing bob dole being mad because people are eating his peanut butter without asking but he's doing it in like the bob dole voice and speaking in third person and everything and
01:32:55
Speaker
it's It's a lovely sketch. ah All right. Well, so you heard it here from Jess. Don't play Broken Sword, Shadow of the Templars. Do watch a 1996 SNL sketch ah ah specifically about the American election that year.
01:33:15
Speaker
up And the groundbreaking reality television series MTV's The Real World. Great. uh so yeah you can send us an email quest quest podcast at gmail.com you can also leave us a review five stars each each star better than the last what if they go on and leave a review that says honestly these guys dialogue trees are a little exhausting yeah i clicked on like sandwich and i had to listen to like 10 minutes of content And and
01:33:49
Speaker
and join us next week. What are we talking about next week, Ben? You know.
01:33:57
Speaker
You know, i've been thinking yeah about it. I mean, you were away. Yeah. And like, you know, Dominic was here and we could record that a while back. So like, I'm not even sure what what the roadmap looks like from here. I see your whiteboard in the background, but like, it's far enough back there that can't like see. It's a bunch of arrows all pointing to one, uh, to, to three words, uh, uh, one title.
01:34:24
Speaker
circled several times okay yeah yeah and it says space quest
01:34:57
Speaker
All right. how do you feel about the the end game of Space Quest 4? So like you you've returned from the mall, you you you're back at the start of the game, Space Quest 12.
01:35:14
Speaker
Yeah. You're in a supercomputer. You know, it's it's kind of similar to other, like, kind of space. Like, a lot of space quests end with you in like, kind of walking around, like, narrow...
01:35:32
Speaker
like walkways suspended up in the air. Right. Yeah. i mean, yeah. Like we have a little bit of that in space quest two and one, and one let's, you know, I mean, this is, this is a good point. You know, what bums me out about that section the game is that,
01:35:50
Speaker
a lot of the comedy kind of falls out like very much comedy but it does have one of my favorite jokes of all time in the series which is the you access the computer that was like a macintosh desktop and you can drag the space quest 4 icon into the trash it just dumps you to dust uh dos like you've deleted the game that's