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013 - Life, Lessons, Lacrosse w/ Nick Tintle
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This isn't just another sports story. It's a masterclass in resilience, adaptability, and the art of turning challenges into opportunities.
Join us on the transformative journey of Nick Tintle—a professional lacrosse player who turned his passion into purpose. From dominating the field to building The Lacrosse Barn, Nick unveils the raw, unfiltered story of leadership that transcends sports and resonates with dreamers and doers everywhere.
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#CaptainsAndCoaches #NickTintle #LeadershipJourney #BeyondTheGame #ReinventYourself #FailFast #Lacrosse #TheLacrosseBarn #UNClacrosse #LacrosseTraining #PLL #PremierLacrosseLeague #TexasLacrosse #collegelacrosse
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Captains and Coaches Podcast. I am your host, Tex McQuilken, and today I travel to Dallas, Texas, up to
Interview with Coach Nick Tintle
00:00:07
Speaker
the La Crosse Barn, the ultimate training facility for La Crosse to sit down with founder, Coach Nick Tintle. Nick has one of the most amazing stories that we cover from his journey in Long Island to University of North Carolina and why he gave up the game only to later return as a 30-year-old rookie and eventual world champion. There is so much life lessons in this episode. I applaud Nick for opening up and sharing with us.
The La Crosse Barn Design
00:00:38
Speaker
He's got an amazing facility, and he's on a mission as a coach, a leader, and a mentor. Very excited to share Nick's journey with you here. Without further ado, Coach Nick Tintle, ready, ready, and break.
00:00:58
Speaker
This facility is something else. I think it's important for us to highlight if you're not watching on YouTube, watch on YouTube, and we'll give you a glimpse of this entire facility. So I mean, imagine we're walking through these doors. What's the experience that you want to paint for all the kids, the parents, coaches, everyone that's walking in to the lacrosse barn?
00:01:22
Speaker
I was going to actually downsize after my gym in California and and this opportunity came and it's kind of one that has been in my dreams. I've you know i've dreamt of a space like this um and so when I got to designing it, I wanted to design a lacrosse-specific facility. So it's something that just you know every inch of it was designed for lacrosse players, by lacrosse players. So when you walk through the hallway, you have the history of the game, um you know respect for where where it came from. And and then so right when you walk in, most facilities have football jerseys and basketball jerseys and baseball, all the big sports. I wanted people to know right away that this was a lacrosse-specific facility.
Flexible Training Spaces
00:02:04
Speaker
So um yeah, just the whole design aspect of it um
00:02:08
Speaker
has just kind of, you know, it's it's been ideas that have been in my head for 15 years that I just, you know, finally, once I got the spot or the space for it, I just kind of threw everything at it. Yeah. And this, this is an incredible facility. We got stands above beyond and we have nets. So if you're a coach, you're able to divide the field, find out your segment and then run in leagues.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, and then even with the little details with the nets, like wall ball is a big thing in lacrosse. So all these nets pull back so they're not permanent. So you can play wall ball and then you could put them back to shoot. um So we have nets inside here that have carabiners. So when we put the box rink in here, we could take those down so people aren't looking through.
00:02:49
Speaker
a net and a glass. um Yeah, we have stadiums heating up top and bottom for viewers. Again, we we tried to think of every little aspect that lacrosse needs. And right now, like we we do a lot of small group training. um So we have bays separated. So we have the field separated in fours where you could do small group training. You could do half field practices. You could do three quarters if you have two teams. And then if you want the full field for events, big camps, big clinics, you have pretty much anything and everything. you You need to to do that.
Nick Tintle's Athletic Journey
00:03:20
Speaker
In Dallas, Texas. In Dallas, Texas. this is This is awesome. As a Texan lacrosse player, I wish I had this amazing facility growing up. I ah do want to take us back to your origin story, right? The anti-hero, the underdog, and your journey to this position to now empower the future generations of the sport.
00:03:43
Speaker
So Long Island, Baltimore, these are like the places for lacrosse and you're that North side story. So take us back to Long Island. Yeah. So I guess, I mean, ah just as an athlete playing football and lacrosse, um, you know, there are two physical sports. So I think when I was younger, I was undersized. Um, so I guess it created a complex of trying to always proving people wrong. Um, and I think that's carried over into my business world, but yeah, I started in Levittown.
00:04:13
Speaker
um Long Island, Nassau County, mom I went to MacArthur High School, um and I was told I was too small to play football, which was my dream sport. that's That was my number one sport. I actually was thinking about playing baseball, um and you know my one of my Hall of Fame coaches ah quickly quickly decided that that's not the path for me. So I decided to play lacrosse last minute, but football was always my driving force. So football and I was told I was too small. So I was always always been solution minded. So like when you tell me I can't do something, I figure out what I have to do in order to prove you wrong.
00:04:48
Speaker
So I hit the weight room really hard. um And I was kind of always, you know I wasn't recruited highly because I was undersized. But once i I think after my sophomore year, my summer going into junior year, that's when I kind of you know hit puberty
Recruitment and UNC Experience
00:05:02
Speaker
and grew a little bit. But I also put on you know a lot of strength in the weight room. um And then and then you know that kind of... work ethic that I created back then, you know, I worked out at 5.30 in the morning before school, five days a week, didn't miss a day, put on about 20 pounds every every year. um And finally, I think I think i was 119 pounds going into high school. um And I graduated at about 185. Was there other lacrosse players working with you? Was it you in that weight room? Was it football players in the weight room? Who's getting access that early?
00:05:37
Speaker
um It was open for our football team, but me and Scotty Rogers, who I think everyone knows he played at Notre Dame, um me and him kind of took it full charge. um So we me and him were the mainstays in there. um Steve Waldeck is a little younger than us. He joined us after that and a couple other guys, um but it was a small small group. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't glorious. Our weight room was in a classroom.
00:06:01
Speaker
It was a tiny little weight room. It was all donated equipment. It was rusty. Your hands were orange by the time you left it. um what During in the winters, I remember getting up early, going outside, turning the car on to heat it up, and then running back inside showering, because it was just freezing. We'd get to the get to the high school, and the high school was locked down. And obviously, they're not running the heat all night. So it was freezing cold. All the metal hurt to touch. like it was But it that that kind of forged us into like that blue collar.
00:06:31
Speaker
ah blue colllar those blue collar kids, those underdogs. um We weren't from, you know, MacArthur was a a baseball school. It wasn't much of, you know, our lacrosse program had some good guys come out of it, but it wasn't like a powerhouse. um We didn't make it a powerhouse either. um But we started kind of that breakfast club of of just grinding it out. That's a great name for it.
00:06:50
Speaker
And kind of the guy, like me and me and Scotty could attest to this, like Scotty's, he made it to the highest level of the game. I've made it to the highest level of game. My story is very different than his. Um, but I think we, we forged something in that weight room at five three in the morning every, every, every day. Yeah. So then what was the recruiting process like? Cause both you went to UNC, he went to Notre Dame. So was it, they were looking at other teams and they found y'all like, how did you get noticed that first time?
00:07:19
Speaker
so Well, i you know I was pursuing football, um lacrosse obviously too, but like I said, I wasn't highly recruited. i wasn't I think maybe because I was so focused on football that I wasn't worried about all the recruiting for lacrosse, or maybe I was just I think I just wasn't aware of it. I see a lot of kids like stressed about that stuff now and and I never really stressed about it. i just I just did the work and whatever happened, happened. um I remember, so Long Island used to have an Empire State team. If you made that team, everyone on that team played Division one so I.
00:07:51
Speaker
I was actually an attackman. i I went for midi because there's just more spots for midi and I thought I had a better shot at making it. um After a good and it's sophomore year or junior year, I'm not sure when it was, but I had a good year and then thought I would make it as a midi. and you know Once they molded that team and and got the 22 guys or whatever it was, it was um was kind of a That was like my, I kind of made it. Once you make that team, I knew that the ah college coaches would come, but what i what I didn't realize is when I did make that team, I was talking to all the guys from all other different schools over Long Island, and they're all talking to a lot of college coaches, some were committed, um and I'm sitting there, I'm like, I haven't got one letter. And so you were a junior at this point? Yeah, I was a junior. So I was a little late to it, I just didn't, you know, I didn't,
00:08:40
Speaker
I didn't have the same recruiting process, I guess, as everyone else. I think that, I think that kind of transitioned in the rest of my life. though I was like, just do the work and, you know, work harder than everyone around you. Um, and, you know, my thing is prove people wrong. Um, and I think that, I think just putting my head down, not listened to all the noise, not worrying about stuff you can't control and just, just going after, getting after it
Leadership at UNC
00:09:03
Speaker
every day. Yeah. And then for your, your high school team, were you and Rogers, the team captains?
00:09:09
Speaker
ah Yes, so Scotty was actually just Scotty was I think Scotty played as an eighth grader on varsity so he played whoa Yeah, so he got moved up um I mean he was just he was a stud goalie. So he got moved up in eighth grade I believe um I was on varsity as a ninth grader and then we kind of went through the whole thing But I believe when I was a senior he was a captain and I was captain and he was a junior at that time. Yeah, I Oh, nice. Yeah. So speak to us when you, you took those reins. It was clear that y'all were working harder than probably a lot of guys on the team. And then you were able to convince some more guys to join your breakfast club. Like what was that, that, that push and pull that you learned as a leader, where not everybody was going to follow your word. Yeah. So at that age, I don't think I was.
00:09:59
Speaker
From what I remember is I was a lead by example guy. I wasn't going to tell you what you needed to do or I was like, look, this is what we're doing. It's working. Come, come out and check it out. Come, come by. And a lot of guys did, but they didn't, they didn't stick it, yeah stick it out. Right. I'm not going to go find that guy and tell him to come. I'm not going to force him to do anything. People hit their leadership roles or they hit their.
00:10:22
Speaker
they they they They want to do the work when they're ready to do the work. yeah You can't really force people to do the work. So some guys stuck around and those guys had good careers and some guys didn't. um and think i was just you know I think I was just focused on my own endeavors um and through my work ethic and putting it all out there and and dreaming big and just doing what I could do day in and day out to get to where I wanted to get, I think it just it was kind of um
00:10:53
Speaker
you know it was It was kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? yeah It just kind of drew other people that wanted those same goals. Yeah, contagious. That's the word, contagious. Contagious. I mean, there's an energy. yeah And when they see who you were to what you became, I mean, the answer was hard work in the iron. then So now speak to us about this jump from the the high school and the club team to college.
00:11:21
Speaker
because you guys, you had your crew working out together. You went to Division I University of North Carolina team. I'm sure you played with a lot of guys that didn't hit the weight room, that were a different kind of gifted. Yeah, Carolina carolina was a ah it was an interesting jump. So the the level from high school to college and then college to pros is always kind of, you know, it's bigger every time you step up the ladder. um i I don't know if I was just,
00:11:51
Speaker
like oblivious to it or not. But like I went into college looking to take people's job. I didn't go in there as the freshman mindset. like And I think that again was forged in that weight room of like, I'm just going to outwork everyone and everything else will take care of itself. I knew I was talented. I had a really good football career, a really good lacrosse career in high school.
00:12:10
Speaker
But i I didn't care about the accolades or anything like that. I cared about like the the process of it. like got I look back at that and I was like, some of like when I get into the ruts now, I go back to working out in the morning, getting up earlier and working out in the morning because that's what you you just got to do the work, right? So the the jump from high school to college was definitely bigger than I anticipated. And I found myself on the depth chart in the midis pretty deep. but The thing that coaches loved about me is what was my blue collar attitude. my i don't you know i didn't Can I curse on this? I'm going to bleep it out. You can do whatever you want. I didn't care sorry i got that New York mouth. I got like i didn't give a about like the other guys, like like like as far as competing wise.
00:12:58
Speaker
Yeah, that guy is better than me right now, but I'm gonna be better than him in a month, right? So like I just took care of what I had to do. I was a hard worker in the weight room I was I was you know, um I mean I remember a story in fall ball and this is kind of where I knew the culture was A little, not what I signed up for, is I'm running around in fall ball, like trying to take guys' heads off and you know yeah like playing hard in the middle of the field.
Transition to College Life
00:13:22
Speaker
And you know I had some guys come up to me and say, like, Tyndall, you need to relax. This is just fall ball. We have nine months before our first game. Just. Yeah. And I'm just like, I don't i don't i don't know how to go slow. I don't know how to dial it back and coast. That's not how I work. Yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, I imagine a lot of guys would listen to that and then take it down a gear. But they're they didn't make the successful jumps that you had. and i think But I think that, like in Carolina, I think that was the culture like so like a lot of guys that were worker like.
00:13:56
Speaker
I don't think they looked back and said like, Oh, look at all the work I did to get here. Why don't I continue that work to get to the next step? They were like, we got here. And I think that was enough for them. Whereas like, I didn't want to go to school. I didn't want to go to Carolina to play at Carolina and say I played there. I wanted to go there and win a national championship and and anything winning at the highest level like that, you can't coast ever.
00:14:20
Speaker
And no so that's kind of what I saw and we were, you know, we were preseason ranked freshman year. We're preseason ranked in the top, I think we're seven, top 10 for sure. Um, we didn't make playoffs that year. We're awful. And you kind of just saw that it was kind of just, they saw that seven and we're satisfied. Yeah, I guess so. So then speak to us internally. Did you take that and put it into summer training?
00:14:48
Speaker
Yeah, um I went through some kind of, yeah, so so so so when I was undersized in high school, the weight room was... important to me. It's always been important to me, and it's always taught me a lot of lessons. But when I got to college, I hit the weight room probably a little too hard and not the right way. oh so i Did you have a strength staff? We had a strength staff at Carolina, and you know it was always more weight you know and and progressive loading. and I just took that and ran with it. I got up to about 205.
00:15:19
Speaker
Um, five, 10, five, nine and three quarters, but five, 10. Right. So like boot height, you're in Texas now. We can say that. Yeah. My frame didn't really hold to a five. Well, so I lost my first step. And in, in lacrosse, like quickness and first step and explosiveness is very important. So you gotta be strong, but, um, I kind of.
00:15:43
Speaker
I think we I was too much in the weights and not enough on my speed development still. So I got a little bit slow, and I was like dodging. like And that's what was my like bread and butter. like I could beat guys. I can create slides. I can create for my teammates. And I lost a step. So actually, over the summer, i I switched gears a little bit and got back into more speed work and agility and change of direction and and all that stuff. So i had I had a little adjustment period, I would say. Time out.
00:16:08
Speaker
Let's take a break from this episode to talk about training and preparation for your sport. Is the training program that you're following preparing you for the demands of your sport, or is it making you bigger, stronger, and slower? We want to put you in a position to follow an appropriate program that develops your athleticism, your speed, and your change of direction.
00:16:31
Speaker
I also integrate leadership development daily into the program. To make sure that you're following the right program, give this a 7 day free trial on our captain's speed, strength, and swagger. You've got nothing to lose and you will immediately tell the difference between the program you were following and the program that's going to put you in a position where every rep, every sprint, every single day that you step into the training is going to prepare you to step onto the field and dominate. For a seven day free trial, click the link in the show notes. Now let's get back to the show. Ready, ready and break. It took you a season to figure that out.
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah. um It was actually so frustrating. I ended up starting by the end of the year, but sophomore year, go so I think it was after sophomore year, I was big and I was like, that's not working. Yeah. That's not where I want to be. And I had to, and again, that's a solution, right? Like i I'm doing all the things that they're asking me to do, but i I figured it out on my own. It's like, this is not what I need right now. yeah So what do I need in order to like prepare and and execute on the field? And and strength, you know obviously I didn't stop strength training, I just changed how I was doing it. yeah So moving the bar faster and and being more explosive and and getting back to those those type things, um but more sprints. I actually, I know run tests are a big thing and in and college sports and I stopped doing all the run tests over the summer and I started playing pickup basketball.
00:18:03
Speaker
yeah Oh, yeah, that's great. I got in the best shape of my life. And all the run tests when I went back to school were easy junior year. I like got back down to 185, because the only answer I had not being a strength coach or a speed coach or anything, like like I had to figure out myself. yeah So I was like, well, where where did i where was I most confident? Where was I playing at the fastest? And I was 185. And I didn't lose any strength. I just lost size. like I just trimmed down more.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah. that So going into junior year, I was in the best shape of my life by playing pickup basketball, but also just faster and quicker. And I got that explosiveness back. Yeah. And I mean, create creativity in lacrosse is incredibly important. So I like that note where you would create for your teammates. Like that's a great ah attitude as a leader because most people want the the points versus I want to create and and lead in this direction. yeah So has that mindset always been been
Nick's Leadership Style
00:18:58
Speaker
with you? Were you ever the points guy or the the offense creation movement guy? In high school, I was the points guy. I was chasing chasten greatness that way. In college, I just wanted to win.
00:19:10
Speaker
So however I fit in that puzzle was was fine with me. Now, starting as a freshman in college, you know you're going to draw the pole as a midi. So I drew the pole all four years, at least all you know three years sophomore and up. But we had a guy on our team, Ben Hunt, who went on to a pro career and winning championships at the pro level. He's a six foot six kid, downhill dodger, great overhand shot. like teams would Teams would pull me and leave him with a shorty.
00:19:37
Speaker
I had no problem burying the pole in the crease and giving him the ball and being like, good luck stopping him. Right. Right. So I think um I took on I'm really good at taking on roles. At the end of the day, like ah if I had a season that, you know, we didn't make playoffs and I had the best season of my life, I'm not going to be too happy about it. But if I win a national championship and I had six points, if I had a little role in that in helping and helping or, you know, helping other guys, you know, with their talents and I'm way happier at the end of the season that way.
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, that that's an important mindset to take on. It's the more attention you draw on the offense or defense, wherever it may be. It frees other teammates to do other things. We see this in in football on defensive line. If you're double teamed, your stats may go down, but then it frees up your teammate. And what's the end game? Offense, the the star receivers double covered.
00:20:31
Speaker
freeze one of these scrappy lacrosse players trying to step into the NFL up, get some yardage. So having that mentality and mindset, it doesn't slow you down when you're double teamed. In fact, you should speed up because then it creates more opportunity for others around you. Exactly. It's kind of like it's kind of like do your job, right? this is This is where I'm going to have most impact on the team. this I'm going to take it in full stride. I'm going to do the best that I can. to And that that carried over into my pro career later down the road. Yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker
what There was a shift in UNC and you highlight this in your bio on the lacrosseborn.com where you guys did not win a conference game until you did. So speak to us about the change from just this is just fall ball to then later in your your career with your teammates.
00:21:20
Speaker
Well, correction, we never won an ACC game, ever. But we did, my junior and senior year, we made playoffs. So I mean, that's not what I went to Carolina for, and it still kind of haunts me. But going into the leadership role that I took on at Carolina, um my freshman and sophomore year were, I mean,
00:21:42
Speaker
If there was a portal like there is today, I might have been in it, right just because of the culture itself. I mean, Carolina was a dream school of mine. I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan. at I wore Carolina blue my whole entire like childhood. like if i like That's why I went there. um Freshman sophomore year didn't do too well. Obviously, we've never won an ACC game our whole my whole career, all four years, which is it's brutal, haunting. For context, there was only four ACC teams at the time, correct? so we Not like basketball. I never beat Maryland. I never beat Duke. And I never beat Virginia. And there were games we were up.
00:22:20
Speaker
five, six goals at half and we end up losing that game or we lose in overtime or we lose by a goal in the last you know couple seconds. So it was demoralizing to say the least. um but as so So junior year I was a silent leader. i I never was a vocal leader until I had to be.
00:22:39
Speaker
Um, so junior year I led by example, that was probably my best stat year and and our best year. Um, I won the the MVP of the team or with, with another guy, Bart Wagner. and I played really well. Our team kind of got back to the playoffs, but still we weren't, we were, the biggest thing for me is underachieving. We were underachieving. We had top five recruiting classes every year and year and year out, and we're not making it deep into the playoff, not making it to the final four and everything. So we're making the quarter files and losing. So, um, senior year, we go into that and you know,
00:23:15
Speaker
Coaches, coach, and players play. So I would never blame a coach for anything. um i I think our coaches lost the locker room. So as a leader and a captain, i like junior year I wasn't a captain, but I was.
00:23:27
Speaker
I just didn't have the C on my chest, but I i led. yeah Leaders lead. And um senior year, I got the C on my chest. I was the captain. And to look around and try to get guys that were just checked out to to play for one he want to you know play for the guy next to you, um it was challenging. yeah But I learned a lot i was ah trying to lead a bunch of guys that didn't want to be led.
00:23:52
Speaker
um And for me, I look back at that as like, what did I do wrong? Or what could I have done better? Or how could I galvanize something to bring this team together and and really make a run?
Post-College Challenges
00:24:03
Speaker
but i'm And I still question. and And there's always things you could do better. But like i don't it was just a learning curve for me. It was it was leading kids that didn't, like you would they say, they lead a horse to water. We can't make them drink. yeah That's kind of what I've come. Your coach, Kev, you've got to just drown them.
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, i go so I go back and forth. i play that I play that scenario in my head all the time of like what I could have done better in that situation. But you know at that time, I did the best I could. I i never stopped working hard. I did everything I could i'm um on my end. um But you know you need more than one guy to win at a high level. so Yeah. And I'm not saying I was the only guy on the team. There was guys on the team that took it serious, but there was a lot of guys checked out. It's it's tough when that weight of somebody that just has also followers when they check out, others decide to take that action as well. Even though they they may have the the passion, the dream, or the ebbs and the flows, they just get caught in those those lows, those valleys. And then, I mean, as a young leader on a team, what tools do you have at that point? Just grab them, shake them, and try to to try to pull them up. But more often than not, that doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've learned. um it was It was definitely a tough.
00:25:22
Speaker
It was tough, but I always try to take the best out of everything. So I think I just learned a lot about leadership. um And I think, like I said, you could you you just got to do the best you can do and and take care of what you have to take care of. And hopefully some guys jump on board. um But you can't yeah blame yourself or look back and and say, you did something wrong because it's just those guys weren't ready to to do it.
00:25:46
Speaker
No. And then hopefully, later on, the get the younger guys, maybe the freshmen that were when you were a senior. They took the lessons learned, and then they were able to step in with the squad. I don't know how UNC did after you, but hopefully those guys found some success. Yeah, they had yeah they had a new coaching regime come in, and and I think the culture, from what I've watched, um the culture has changed. um you know They won a national championship, I believe, in 2016, so something changed. um I hope I had a little.
00:26:17
Speaker
a little thing to do with that. I don't, I don won't take that credit at all, but I hope I instilled some sort of work ethic and, and change that, that, the program needed at that time. Did y'all have like a big brother, little brother, any, any formal like connection outside of, I mean, with the team? No, no, no we didn't have anything set up as as far as leadership goes and taking guys with you as kind of a every man for himself and just kind of.
00:26:46
Speaker
get through practicing, get through strength and conditioning, get through your speed work and get through your all that stuff. And it wasn't, there was no, yeah, there was no like buildup and it was, it was almost, I should talk about this too, because senior year I i got burnt out, right? I was tired of putting in everything I could possibly put in and not get other guys to do the same. And you do that for a couple of years and you feel like you're just hitting a dead end. There's no,
00:27:11
Speaker
Like I said, I'm a solution guy. like I'm trying to figure out all these solutions to get other guys to to do things and and put in the work. Because the biggest thing for me is is potential. like We had the potential to do whatever we wanted. Yeah. So like for me, that's the hardest pill to swallow. um But i' i'll I'll address it. My senior year, like I won't i'm not gonna say I gave up. or But like mentally, I wasn't there. Physically, I just don't know how to slow down. so But mentally, i was kind of I was kind of checked out as well towards the end of the season.
00:27:41
Speaker
Well, a Division I sport, I mean, that's ah that's a career in itself. It is. So you were a professional athlete. Even though you weren't paid, you were putting in all the hours, the time. And sometimes the only payment you get is winning. And when that you can't cash that check, it is a lot. Yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think about that all the time. It was definitely a tough experience, especially because even the guys that are like coasting stuff, it's still hard. It's not easy. You're there. I always looked at it. I was like, I'm here. I'm going to give it everything I can when I'm here. But yeah, I was not getting the wins and not winning an ACC game and not getting to the final four and not winning a championship. It's a road. It's four years of grind for hard work.
00:28:26
Speaker
but they ah A big thing that that we're going after is that sports don't teach lessons, captains and coaches do. So even though you weren't necessarily winning and cashing those checks, you were still learning from those experiences. It wasn't necessarily the sport that was teaching this, it was your ability to to listen. So even though you were you were checked out, you were still still experiencing growth. So then speak to us about that growth that you were able to take into the next level.
00:28:56
Speaker
and then that helped build this building. All right, well, that's, yeah, there's a lot of years in between. So like I said, I was burnt out um after college, so. We actually, um we took a senior trip to the Outer Banks um and i was on the we were on the way back to Chapel Hill and I got a call from a coach. I believe they were playing in Philly or New Jersey that they did the All-Star North-South game and me and one of ah my other seniors was invited to it. We didn't even know about it because there was a coaching regime change so the coaches didn't even and let us know about it.
00:29:28
Speaker
I probably wouldn't have played in it anyway because I was so done with lacrosse at that time. um And like I said, my story is way different than Scotty. Scotty made it to the final game. They eventually lost in the national championship in overtime. But you know he went right into the pro ranks and and did his thing. I stepped away from the sport.
00:29:44
Speaker
um
00:29:50
Speaker
um So I went through some
00:29:58
Speaker
hard times in life, um which you know now that I look back at it, like what I was worried about as a leader and all the stuff I went through in college and the experience that I wanted and what I got kind of didn't mean much. um And the cross kind of got put in the rear view mirror.
00:30:23
Speaker
um and graduating from college and going into the business world. and you know At that time, like but my my my dad was a carpenter, my mom was a teacher, so we were very blue collar, we weren't very well off. um I wanted to be the breadwinner for my family, but I also wanted to do it myself. So it was a good thing, but a bad thing, because when you graduate college, you created a network. I didn't use any of the Chapel Hill network that I had. I could have went into Manhattan, you know, got a great job and made a lot of money. and But I went through some tough times in life um and kind of went down
00:31:06
Speaker
a dark path. um
00:31:12
Speaker
Sorry. Kind of got away from all the things that made me so successful in the first place. So without going too much into it, I I got a job selling car insurance because I wanted to do it on my own. I didn't want any hand-me-outs. I didn't really know what networking was. I didn't come from a business-minded family. um and Nothing against my parents. They're just hardworking people. and they you know they' they do like My dad's like and dad's a carpenter and like he builds beautiful houses and kitchens and remodels and stuff. and he just doesn't Like, he doesn't know how great he does things, I guess. And my mom's a teacher, and she's you know changing kids' lives teaching every day. yeah um But I went into the world not knowing anything about business, so I didn't know anything about networking. And the way I do it is like, I'm just going to do this myself. I don't need anybody. I'll just do it myself. So I i took a job selling car insurance. And like I said, I was going down a dark path. I was doing things that are not natural to my character. um And it came to a point where I just had to leave.
00:32:12
Speaker
So I, ah like I said, were you back in? I was back on Long Island. Yeah, I was back on Long Island. I was living in my parents' house and dead end job and doing things, like I said, not in my character. And finally I just, I told my parents I had to get out of there. yeah I had to like, I need a restart. I need like a refresher. So i I moved as far away from New York as possible and I landed in California.
00:32:34
Speaker
And I got there with, I don't know, $1,500 in my pocket and tried to figure it out. And it almost didn't work. um But you know I got another job canvassing neighborhoods and selling solar panels door to door. and and I took whatever I could to pay rent and do that stuff. And then i just the the aha moment for me is you know I'm starting to get my life back on track and figure things out and see what I want to do with my life. And you know i I was in an interview. And at that point, I was like a great interviewer. I just knew what they wanted to hear. And I was in an interview. And she had the last question she asked me. She says, where do you see yourself in five to 10 years? And the answer is I see myself climbing the corporate ladder and working as a manager and being a leader of of a team here and growing this company.
00:33:19
Speaker
And I sat there and looked her in the face and I said, I'd like to own a gym in the next five years. ah And she goes, OK, well, that's it. And wrapped up the meeting. And I had a headhunter at that time. And my headhunter called me and goes, what the hell are you doing? I'm like, that's what I want to do. And that kind of was the aha moment of like, the only thing I've ever known was sports. Right.
00:33:40
Speaker
And I didn't want to get back in lacrosse. Lacrosse wasn't the, that wasn't the, I've had a love it, hate relationship with lacrosse my whole entire life. And that wasn't the driving force. It was me getting back to the weight room. Pure and simple. That's when I was at my best. That's when I was building and not destroying myself. So I wanted to become a strength coach and a speed coach. Cause that's the only thing that ever kind of got me to where I wanted to go. So I went and got all my certifications and You know, i ah I applied to a gym in San Juan Capistrano, and they hired me on the spot because my resume was division one lacrosse player at University of North Carolina, two-time All-American, so on and so forth. And they wanted to start a lacrosse sector. How about that in California? In California. So lacrosse was starting to gain some traction. It was still very, very new to California. Some schools had it, some schools didn't.
00:34:36
Speaker
But i i I kind of pushed back. I was like, I want to be more on the speed end. I want to teach kids how to run fast and move well. and And they do that, but my resume said different. So I started training girls and guys for lacrosse and kind of developed my skill over time there and then started building a following. And I kind of did it. i And I look back and I did it my own way. Most most kids that want to do lacrosse, they go into coaching high school and coaching club. I didn't want really anything to do with that. I wanted to develop kids on a different level.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I think lacrosse was missing that. So I think lacrosse is missing that. You know, you look at baseball, they got pitching coaches, you got football, you got the defensive back coaches and linebacker coaches and all these different skilled Pacific coaches. Yeah. I wanted to be that for lacrosse. And I knew it was like new. No one was really doing
Return to Professional Lacrosse
00:35:22
Speaker
it. If guys were doing it, it was like during summers of college. And I did that as well. So that's kind of how I got back into everything with that.
00:35:30
Speaker
And then were you able to connect the weight room still to the skill work that you were doing with kids? Yes. So I was doing strength, speed, and skill. I was doing all of it. and ah Yeah, and it's funny. um So i'm I'm starting to coach all these lacrosse kids, and and all of a sudden, these kids are doing really well. They're putting all the pieces together, and they're starting to get scholarships to Division 1, 2, 3, MCLA, whatever. They're starting to play on the East Coast. They're starting to do this stuff. And I was like, all right, I got something here. And then all of a sudden, I'm coaching one day, and I'm like,
00:36:00
Speaker
man I miss playing this game and that's when like the itch you know I started having like to scratch the itch and I was like you know what let me see if I still got it I was six years out I haven't played played or like I mean I say I don't touch I didn't touch a stick I had an old stick that I coached with but I didn't really yes with it I didn't have any It just was one day where it clicked. I was like, I missed playing. I'm watching these kids get really good and you know follow their dreams that I was at one point. And I decided to give it a go. So I tried out for the Chesapeake Bay Hawks with an old stick. All the guys, I knew all the guys on the team. I brought like a fully taped stick, like a stick that I maybe got from like played against sports or something. And it was it was brutal. But I went and when tried out for the Chesapeake Bay Hawks. I made it to the last round of tryouts and then I got cut.
00:36:49
Speaker
um But what it proved to me is like I could still play at a pretty high level. Yeah. So um they had this LXM Pro Tour in California, and i I joined up for that. And I played played for that. and Kyle Harrison, Peter Baum, some sports and award winners. So it was like it wasn't like a bus league. It was hiding the Division I guys that weren't playing in major league lacrosse, which is you know the pro um sector. And it was kind of like a tour model. So we'd go to different cities that had big tournaments that weekend. so And then we'd have like concerts and stuff like that. But it was just a way for me to get back into shape and play and play at a high level and have fun. And I just started loving it again. And then that folded. And you know I look back at my lacrosse career and I'm like, is this it? Is this it? Is this it? I've i've played lacrosse since I was 10 years old and I have almost nothing to show for it.
00:37:43
Speaker
I felt like the thing missing most was the championship or, you know, or just playing at the highest level, right? So I know XM Pro was high level, but I wanted to play at the pro level. So I was like, let me give this one more shot. So I tried out for um the Denver Outlaws and I made the team. I got caught after four games, but and my my in my goal setting, I was like, I just want to walk on a field and play in one professional game.
00:38:11
Speaker
Really, at that time, I wanted to score on Scotty. I was going to score on him and take all my equipment off and retire right on the field. That was like the real goal. I didn't tell many people that. And I actually did score on him the second game. And I could have just called it quits. I was thinking about just taking everything off. I'm like, I'm done. I did my thing and I made it and I'm good. Like that was enough for me. um I get cut after four games and our team wasn't doing well. So we we were one in four, one in five. What what year is this?
00:38:38
Speaker
2016, so 2016 where one and five, I get cut, they go with some other guys, they do the college draft, so they get like Matt Cavanaugh and Jack Kelly and goal, and they get a couple key pieces, and all of a sudden this team turns it around. And I watch them, and I'm watching them from home now because I'm not suiting up, and now I'm like, I'm looking at my career, I'm like, all right, I play at the professional level, but I look back to a ten year old my 10-year-old self, I never won a championship.
00:39:05
Speaker
Middle school, never. High school, never. College, never. I'm like, that's the one thing that's missing. I need to win. I need to win at the highest level. and For quick context, the the season starts, and then the college draft happens. So guys join later on in the season, which is not but normal sports. yeah So they join. They turn the season around. they They limp into playoffs. They get the fourth spot in playoffs. And I'm watching from home, and I'm just like, this is crazy. And then they get to the championship game, and they end up winning.
00:39:33
Speaker
They were down like 12 at half, and they came
Achieving a Championship Dream
00:39:35
Speaker
back and won. There was a weather delay, and they came back and won. And I'm watching the team that I started the year off with win the when the you know world championship. yeah And that's when I was like, I'm going back to work. um but um I'm going to be a part of this. Somehow, if it's a different team, or I didn't know yet, but I wrote it on my mirror in my bathroom to remind me. And I got back to like i got back to working as hard as possible. I was like, this is the only thing that I need.
00:40:00
Speaker
Now at that time, 2016, I was a 30-year-old rookie. So I came back and made a team as a 30-year-old rookie, which is an accomplishment of itself. If you look at other sports, if you come back to professional sports at 30 years old, you don't have a really high percentage of making a team. So that in itself was ah a huge accomplishment for me. And it was great. But I was like, I can give more. I have more. I can give more. And I'm going to do this. I'm going to try this. um So I put it on my mirror in the bathrooms. I saw it every day. So you know those days you wake up and you're like, I don't feel like doing anything.
00:40:30
Speaker
you look at that mirror and i's staring you right in the face you in the face and one of my one of my good friends he told me it's a kid I coach he played pro as well um and he ah he goes you put on your mirror and I didn't do it at this time for this reason but he says you put in your mirror because you're looking at the person you want to become ooh I like that And that stuck with me. So like, anyway, long story short, I won't get in 2017. Denver Outlaws had a different plan. They invited me back. I thought I was going to have to trial for another team and do the whole process again. Denver invited me back after winning a championship. I go to our camp, and I see the Steinfold Trophy, which was the trophy. And I look at it, and I'm like, I need this for myself. Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
And they're celebrating still, and then we get to camp, and I make the team, and I'm part of the team, and I'm starting to become one of the guys. And you know they're trusting me. The coaches are giving me more responsibility.
00:41:22
Speaker
um And i make you know I played the whole season. And then we're number one is the best team I've ever been on. 2017, best locker room, best team. At that time, like as a leader, I took a step back. i think In order to be a great leader, you got to be a great follower at some times. So I watched the other leaders and how they led. And it was just on a whole nother level. And that locker room was the best locker room I've ever been a part of. we're going We're number one going into playoffs. We have one more game in Rochester. We're still playing our top guys because we want to go in on a high note. We don't want to lose our last game going to playoffs. So we're going to Rochester. and
00:42:00
Speaker
I think second quarter, I'm on ah um on a wing. There's a little scrum. I get pushed from behind. I fall on my wrist and I snap my wrist in half, pop my elbow. And I knew it was broken right away. I walk off the field. I show the trainer. I'm like, my wrist is broken. He checks his stability. He goes, I think you're all right. So we taped it up. I played the rest of the game. We're flying back. We have a layover in Iowa.
00:42:21
Speaker
Um, and I literally go behind him and I put my wrist in front of his face. I'm like, you sure this ain't broken? It was literally black and blue as could be in black and blue. And yeah it was trashed. I ended up breaking my wrist and I tore all the ligaments in my wrist and it was pretty much just hanging on by a thread. Um,
00:42:39
Speaker
I go to a surgeon, they confirm all the stuff. They sit, they tell the coaches, the coaches shut me down. I pleaded with them for a week straight, crying on the phone, like I gotta play, I gotta play, I gotta play. Like this is the only, this is the team that is gonna win a championship and I'm gonna be on the sideline again. And I was like distraught. It was a low, low, low time because I put in so much work. I finally got to like, just it's within grasp. It's right there. It's right there.
00:43:05
Speaker
um Finally, the best decision, because I'm in in the strength and conditioning world. I own my own gym at this time. And and they shut me down. And they I travel with the team, but I'm in a cast on the sideline watching them. They they win the the first round of playoffs. They're in the championship. So now I'm like, um'm I'm the guy on the sideline watching my team win another championship. And i yes, i was I part of the team the whole entire season? if i get that ah Would I have gotten an a ring? Yes, if the we win. Yeah.
00:43:32
Speaker
but it that's not it's not saying I'm not in that game yeah doesn't that doesn't count in my book so we go to the championship game and we end up losing we let we end up losing the Scotty Rogers team so he won his ring um And I look at all the guys, and obviously after a championship game that you lost, you youre you know the guys are distraught. And I go up to the captains and the older guys that are you know closer to my age. And I go, you guys coming back? And they were all very close to retiring and being done with it. And we kind of made a silent pack from what I remember in that locker room. It's like, let's give it one more try, please. yeah I begged them in some way, please. Can we bring this team back and do it again? And let's like, revenge this.
00:44:14
Speaker
They ended up all coming back. We we lost one defender, um but we you know we got some solid guys out of the um ah the draft and stuff like that. So anyway, long story short, we go into next season, 2018. And eighteen and ah they had the World Games that year. And we're we're doing all right. We're up and down. We're not the team that we were last year, but we're fighting. We're in the mix. And they have the World Games and are our starting goalie. There's the ACL and the World Games.
00:44:38
Speaker
Now, the good thing about that is he was the USA World ah world Team goalie. Our backup for Denver was the world goalie for Canada. So we didn't drop off much, if any. So Dylan Ward steps in and you know we're we're still fighting. We're fighting for that last position. So anyway, it's ah it's a workers comp claim. So I have to go get it checked. So I opted out of surgery in the off season and I rehabbed it myself in my gym and all this stuff. I got it back to 70%. I was just taping it up every game and you know getting through it.
00:45:06
Speaker
Workers comp calls and says, you got to get it checked out. So I go to the surgeon. He comes in the room, and I just knew something was off. And this is right before our last game of the season. And if we win this game, we make playoffs. If we lose, the other team will go into playoffs. So it was a playoff game. And right before the game, that during the week, I go to the surgeon's um room, and he comes in. He goes, I got good news and bad news. He goes, which one you want first? I go, I don't care. Just tell me. He goes, well, good news is your wrist healed from last year, the the break. He goes, however, you broke your wrist in another area.
00:45:36
Speaker
No. And to put it lightly, I'm not going to say, but did I threaten his life to say nothing? Maybe. i told them it's In so few words, I told him, this conversation is not leaving this room. I'm playing with this thing. I don't care if it falls off during game, I'm playing. So I just taped it up a little bit tighter. I didn't tell the training staff, didn't tell the coaches, didn't tell any of the players.
00:46:00
Speaker
taped it up we beat Atlanta Blaze make it to the playoffs we win um our first round we get into the championship I'm in the championship game and we win there you go so I finally got my ring and I mean I'll tell you what the most and It was such you You know you see the championship trophy I raise over my head and get the ring and all that stuff is great But I look back and really that struggle of going through everything I did to get there was way more important Oh, yeah, and and I knew
00:46:32
Speaker
The guys knew that, too, how much it meant to me and how much I'd been through. Because when they raised the trophy, the captains got the trophy, the first person they called up was me.
Inspiration Behind Writing a Book
00:46:41
Speaker
So they knew how much it meant to me. And I think that was, by far, the best moment of my life in sports was them handing me the trophy first. Yeah, they knew. It was wild. That's a feeling. I mean, that's the beauty of the team and those leaders even having the awareness to acknowledge that.
00:47:00
Speaker
and then you know not not claim ownership for themselves, but then i give it to a guy that it meant a lot to. The best captains I've ever been around, the best leaders I've ever been around, Drew Schneider, Eric Law, and Matt Bocklett. Those were our captains for Denver Outlaws, and they were the way they led. They all led in a little bit different manners and different ways, but man, they did they have our attention as as players. and And look, this is the top players in the world. So like to lead a bunch of guys that can play high level you know anything, like it's not an easy job. And they did it almost with ease. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I mean, professional lacrosse in itself is a challenge, because you you're basically working your 9 to 5 in the week, and then you're off somewhere in the US competing. You've got to fly away. And at that time, I was you know in the, in the
00:47:53
Speaker
ah During this time, I was building a gym. So I was a ah new business owner and and and moving gyms and there were so many moving parts. like There was just so much going on. um I kind of like that. I like my plate overflowing. So like i don't I look back and I'm like, when I look at it, I'm like, how did I do all this? Because I was working 12 hours days at least, and then red eye out, play, red eye back, and then get back to work. There was no days off. No.
00:48:21
Speaker
No, I did want to take a moment to give you the opportunity to highlight the book. So you're you're putting all these into a journey and a story for people to hopefully glean some lessons and take perspectives into their own lives.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, so I have a name for the book. We don't know if it's sticking. um It's called Foul Fast. Life Lessons Lacrosse is what we're on with right now. Oh, baby. I like the littlerations. It's good. Yeah. my um I didn't want to write a book. And if you asked me this five years ago, I would say I would never write a book. I don't know. But I think it's once I got my head wrapped around it, I think it was it's I think it's selfish for me not to tell my story. right like i think there's I don't want to put myself on a pedestal that I went through more than anyone else. Everyone goes through tough times. I had to go through life things right out of college that I hope no one has to go through.
00:49:23
Speaker
um But i it's life, that's what it is. So for me not to share it with people that might be going through something similar to help them through that time, or I didn't maybe have the help, or didn't want the help, I think it's important. So I came up with the name Fell Fast, or one of my coaches actually in California came up with it. um But Fell Fast, like I didn't fell fast. I stayed in.
00:49:52
Speaker
a dark place for way longer than I had to. um And I think for me, it was trying to do it myself all the time. When really you could have built a team and you could have asked for help or you know people are there to help. So like me writing the book is me putting myself out there. And this this book goes into great detail of and things that I want.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:50:19
Speaker
And for me, i don't selling books is not what I want to do. like like Obviously, that's great if it happens. If it helps one person, for me, that's all that's all I need. yeah um And I think it's going to help a lot of people because I think.
00:50:35
Speaker
I think it's raw. It's everything. i didn't I could have held things out of there that you know I didn't want to share with the world because I'm in a professional gym now. you know and you know Some things are better left unsaid sometimes, but I think if I'm going to write this book, which I did, I'm going to share every little detail. and i think it's you know I've read books of people's journey that go through tough times and I think they held back. yeah ah there's you If you read this book, you're going to know every little detail about my life and the goods, the bads, the really ugly. And and then hopefully that you see that if you stick with it and keep working and keep going, good things are on the other end. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:17
Speaker
yeah we we do highlight ah often in this podcast the dangers of shame. So hiding things back from your story prevents you from being authentic. And then, I mean, that that's that's where growth happens, is putting it out all on the table and then learning, hopefully learning from those lessons. So people that do read it, that's an opportunity for them to not have shame, disgrace, or and provide perspective for them to continue to grow from wherever the hell they are. Yes, exactly.
00:51:49
Speaker
Cool, man. that that's That's a great way to to conclude this, man. You you' built in ah a beautiful facility. I attended the grand opening. it was It was awesome. I mean, there were so many kids running around just ripping shots, putting holes in this beautiful wall. But yeah, man, I'm glad for this. In Texas, I used to joke all the time that I was an oxymoron as a lacrosse player from Texas, but now there's there's a sense of pride for for the sport. And I'm glad you're you're doing everything you can for not only lacrosse in Texas, but I mean, the sport is as as a whole. It's awesome to give back to the game as we we often hear people do. So this is great. and And to go off that, I think, you know, I've dreamt of this my whole entire life and my story and the business has come full circle. And this is, along with the book, this is my way of
00:52:45
Speaker
you know look At the end of the day, like I consider myself one of the best skills coaches in the lacrosse game because I've done it for so long and that that stuff comes easy to me. but i don't That's not why I do this. I want to impact the youth and young kids' lives on a way deeper level. and I think with the book putting it all out there and the way I coach and and And help these kids deliver like develop, just not as lacrosse players, but as people. I think that that's that was the dream. The building's great. This is awesome. This is the all the hard work paying off. But more importantly, as the kid that filled this building, that's who I want to impact and and help them. and Because they're all going to experience tough times in their life. So I want to prepare them for them.
00:53:32
Speaker
prepare them for those moments because they will happen. And I want them to be better equipped for when they do happen, because I don't think I was equipped well enough for just how tough it can get. Yeah. So that's what I'd like to leave with, I guess. That's that's awesome. Yeah. And then the the the tagline for the the show is is raising the game. So that's my tip of the cap to not only lacrosse, but then all sports out there, as we do as coaches and leaders, is to is to raise the game so that whoever's a part of our teams or our journeys as athletes or coaches, they're all better people because of it. So you embody that that mission perfectly, man, and i'm I'm glad we're able to take the time to have this conversation in the lacrosse bar. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, man. Cool. Cheers.
00:54:28
Speaker
telling a story. It's good. thank you for joining me for another episode of the captains and coaches podcast be sure to like and subscribe in the show and give us a review if you can on itunes be sure to follow at the lacrosse barn and at coatte underscore kentel of all of nick's work raising the game If you're a coach in need of strength and conditioning program for yourself, be sure to check out the old bull program because leading by example is not optional. If you're a coach looking for a training program for their team, let me do the heavy lifting for you. Captain speed, strength and swagger is a comprehensive strength and conditioning program with speed and change of direction, direction, change of direction built into it.
00:55:15
Speaker
Both of these programs integrate leadership development. So now you'll have scripts and missions to bring to your team each practice. Check those out in the show notes. And again, thank you for tuning in. See you next time. Bye.