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The Potter Who Makes Pottery For Nerds w/ Hailey Fair
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In this episode of 'Shaping Your Pottery,' Nic Torres welcomes Hailey Fair, a potter who shares her journey from traditional apprenticeships to establishing a unique brand focused on nerdy pottery inspired by books, video games, and movies. Hailey discusses the importance of breaking away from conventional methods, finding joy in creating, and how social media has played a significant role in identifying her customer base and growing her business. She also offers practical advice for aspiring potters on overcoming self-doubt, discovering their artistic voice, and the significance of consistency and bravery in turning pottery into a successful career. you can learn more about Hailey by checking out her instagram https://www.instagram.com/crackpotcrockery/
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00:00 Introduction: Embracing Criticism in Pottery 00:08 Challenging Traditional Pottery Beliefs 01:00 Haley's Journey into Pottery 02:26 The Apprenticeship Experience 05:34 Creating Nerdy Pottery 07:28 Finding Inspiration and Constraints 14:12 The Business Side of Pottery 21:44 Overcoming Self-Doubt and Finding Your Voice 27:53 Final Thoughts and Advice
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Transcript
Success through Selective Appeal
00:00:00
Speaker
If someone doesn't dislike what you're doing, then you're not doing it right. You cannot possibly appeal to everyone.
Joyful Exploration in Pottery
00:00:09
Speaker
haley welcome share your pottery and share with me what's a commonly held belief in the pottery world that you passion and disagree with Hi, thank you so much for having me. If I had to pick up a me, I would pick the traditional apprenticeship model, where you have to like mop floors and wedge clay for months before you even get to start throwing something and even then you're only making the masters work and you don't get to take credit for any of it.
Pottery as Stress Relief at NYU
00:00:38
Speaker
I think that pottery can be something joyful, where you can explore your own style, even at those beginning stages of learning. And I think that that's something that should be supported. Absolutely agree. 100%. Especially in the early stages. Anybody can be finding their voice in the early stages. Absolutely agree. 100%. Yeah. So tell me the story of how you got started making pottery.
00:01:03
Speaker
So I went to college at New York University in New York City and I knew that I really liked sculpture. So I was taking a bunch of classes. Obviously class can be stressful in school like that.
00:01:19
Speaker
And so pottery was something that I taught myself to do specifically throwing as stress relief. So I would go to the clay studio after hours and I would just listen Fleetwood Mac and throw pots to make myself happy. And after a while, I kind of started to wonder if it was something that I could turn into a career. And so after I graduated, I decided to continue pursuing it.
Guild Apprenticeship: Pros and Cons
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely love that. What were you feeling when you first got into pottery? I think. This has been a pretty common experience just watching people at the community studio where I used to work. But there are certain people who when they start throwing, they really get the bug. And so I was one of those people I was throwing and throwing and throwing. I couldn't stop. They ended up having to give me like my whole own shelf in the ceramic studio just to store everything. And they like made up an independent study so that I could keep doing it. I really, I just fell in love with throwing in particular.
00:02:25
Speaker
I absolutely love that. So you contribute growth as an artist to being an apprentice at a local guild. Tell me the story about this. So I had just left college in New York City and moved back in with my parents upstate for a while.
Skills Learned at the Guild
00:02:40
Speaker
And there was a local girl that was advertising apprenticeships and residency. And that seemed like a really good way to explore pottery and continue practicing and see if this was something I could make into a career as they were obviously selling talk themselves.
00:03:00
Speaker
It wasn't a perfect fit, I'll say that, because it was one of those more traditional apprenticeships. The goal was for them to teach me to make the guilds work, and then they would sell it as guild work. It was more of a collective and less of an individual buy, but the people there were incredibly nice. They were really gifted. They taught me a lot about production in particular and how to make large runs of pots that all looked the same and to really hone my throwing skills, which I think is something that's really important. If you're going to make pots, I think that before you start selling, you should be able to consistently replicate the same piece.
00:03:43
Speaker
which obviously is not a hard and fast role. like i I was experimenting with selling at that point when my pots weren't as consistent. I would do like a couple of sales on Etsy and left the people that bought those initially because those early sales gave me enough money to buy more clay and firing to make the next thing. but I would say that the the production skills in particular were super valuable for me. I absolutely love that. What is something you learn during your time as an apprentice that you still use today? I would say that's definitely the production throwing skills in particular. When we were working there, they used large boards as well. So when you threw
00:04:27
Speaker
you would put all of your pots on a wooden board and then carry the whole board and store it. That's something I use as well. And I
Finding a Unique Style in Nerdy Pottery
00:04:35
Speaker
would say those are the two main things. It's just like the the throwing and trimming skills and the boards. I'm very grateful to them for helping me when I was just a bumbling college newbie. It was great. Absolutely love that. What advice would you give to someone that also wants to join in and practice or guilt?
00:04:56
Speaker
I think the advice that I would give would be to take it for what it is. I think that it'll be less about exploring your own creative voice and more about gaining fundamental skills and being part of a collective. And if you feel like that's something that works for you, 100% go for it. It's not, I think that there actually are probably some better ways to get started.
00:05:25
Speaker
Absolutely agree. Shaping nation. If your goal is to build fundamental skills, maybe a gill or apprenticeship is probably your way to go. But if that's not your goal, try to go. Let's talk about your pottery. Can you tell me the story? How you started making the party they make today was simply the nerdy pottery.
00:05:41
Speaker
Ah, yes. Right. So when I first started my business, I was workshopping a bunch of different models for how I wanted that to look. I was looking at maybe wholesale. I was looking at making things that were more universally appealing like dinnerware with a more geometric pattern. And then my third idea, the one closest to my heart,
00:06:04
Speaker
was nerdy pottery but at the time there weren't a ton of people doing that and I didn't know if I was just crazy like um being nerdy was kind of becoming trendy and this is like 2015 maybe when I was thinking about this and so that first year in business I did two different crash shows and I decided that I would do a small run of each style of work for each one and see what went better. So I did like a wizarding weekend festival and then I did just a typical craft show. The typical craft show bombs, totally bombed. I could, I sold barely anything and the only things I really was selling were the things that I had left over from the wizarding weekend, which is like a couple of cauldron mugs,
00:06:54
Speaker
And then the Wizarding weekend went so well and the response from customers was super cool. And it really seemed like everyone just wanted me to make the things that I cared about because I think that people can really tell if you're passionate about the work you make or if you're pandering. And so I think that there really, there's a depth and a spark to the the nerdier side of my work that just isn't there when I'm trying to make like late Yeah, absolutely love that. So you were inspired by book video game shows and
Creative Constraints and Design
00:07:34
Speaker
movies. How do these things impact the way you make your own pottery?
00:07:38
Speaker
so I don't know about everybody else, but for me in particular, I sometimes think that if I'm sitting down to make something, I need a constraint. So but the constraints in my case would be subject, matter, and function.
00:07:55
Speaker
If I try to look at everything at once and I have no constraints whatsoever, I get really lost on what to make. So usually I'll pick a subject matter like what I have in front of me on my desk right now. I was really inspired by the Pokemon Haunter and then I decided that I would make it into a gravity-fed water dispenser. So those two constraints, that specific function and that specific character, really influenced how the design came together because it gives you fewer pathways. It helps you narrow in on a design. That answers the question.
00:08:35
Speaker
How can somebody create these constraints for their own part? I'd say there's probably a couple of ways to go about it. One of the easiest ones is function. So if you think of a specific function, for example, a classic mug, you want the handle to be comfortable. Do you want like a two finger handle? Do you want a full hand handle? Those things create a different look. I try to think about balanced weight. I try to think about having a closed opening compared to like a flared mug. It keeps drinks warm longer. I like to flare the lip. So if you really think about the experience of the person using the pot, those sorts of decisions will follow pretty easily.
00:09:20
Speaker
I absolutely love that advice. Shaping nation, sometimes if you can strain yourself in what you're trying to do, more ideas actually come by limiting yourself and you're able to thrive a little bit better. I absolutely love that. Yeah. Just take some of the things off the table. There's there's so many ideas out there. Nary your focus a little bit. Absolutely great. Now, why do you like making nerdy pottery?
00:09:44
Speaker
I think that's really easy to get inspired when you're thinking about the things that really light you up. I hate to say it, but probably my favorite thing on this planet is just putting video games. It's like why I get up is make art, make video games happen. So it makes me excited to go to work, I would say. Sorry, I forgot the question. You asked why do I like making video games work? Nerdy Potter.
00:10:14
Speaker
nerdy foddering specificallyly Yeah, nerd nerdy stuff is what I am passionate about, but even if they're what I'm passionate about. So in turn, it helps me to be passionate about my
Engaging Audience through Social Media
00:10:22
Speaker
work. And it's really exciting to make things that your friends like and to bounce ideas off of them in that way. or And honestly, at this point, I feel like some of my followers are my friends.
00:10:35
Speaker
So I'll, I'll put it out in my Instagram stories, like, guys, what should I do? And everybody's always eager to jump in and be like, Oh yeah, definitely sharks this time. Or, Oh, definitely Pokemon. So getting that response really helps me feel motivated to go to work.
00:10:52
Speaker
Absolutely. agree I loved it. I love making dirty part of my stomach. Literally the mug I'm using is literally just a Deadpool and Wolverine mug. That's so That's right. That's really cool. Yep. I absolutely agree with you a hundred percent. So now can you briefly walk me through the steps you take when you're creating one of your nerdy pot? Oh yeah. Huh? So see where do we start?
00:11:18
Speaker
The first thing I'll do is I'll get an idea and then I almost immediately take it to use social media, Instagram in particular. I really like to get feedback directly from my customer. And I think that social media is really accessible and.
00:11:33
Speaker
re way to receive that feedback. So usually I'll start with two to three ideas and I'll put a poll in my Instagram stories and ask them which one they are passionate about. Obviously it's always the case sometimes I'm like I know I definitely want to do this but even then I'll kind of throw it up there and be like are people interested in this because the end of the day While I do want to make the things I like, it's also about my customer and what they want to buy so that I can buy more supplies and continue the cycle of production. So I start there and then after that I will go to sketch. So I love to keep sketchbooks. I've got a bunch right here. Currently what I'm working on
Becoming a Full-Time Potter
00:12:15
Speaker
is these
00:12:16
Speaker
Jaws mugs and the shark is like eating a piece of candy. I don't know why that's what came to my head but so I'll start with like this is the sketch of the original Jaws art this is like where I'm taking it and then I'll sketch out little shapes with the the design in it to see what shape I'm going for and If it's a larger sculpture, I'll break it down into the specific shapes I need to throw or build in order to facilitate the hole. If it's a mug, I'll just have the side profile so that I have something to look at while I'm throwing. And I know exactly what shape I'm making. And then from there, working off of such a solid sketch really helps me to stay on task, especially since I'm one of those people who can't see pictures in their head at all.
00:13:05
Speaker
So like I can't physically visualize what something's gonna look like unless I get it down on paper. Yeah. Do you think more more people should use sketchbooks? Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that My two biggest tools are I have like a little note on my phone, uh, just ideas that are written down. So let's say it's 3am and I'm like, ah, John's candy have to write it down. Cause otherwise I totally forget. And the sketchbook, it really helps because not only do I have a map of what I'm doing now.
00:13:42
Speaker
But I also have a map of what I was doing for the last three years. And usually what I'll do, too, aside from just writing down, is I will like write down the weights or the the glaze that I use so that if I needed to remake that design, which I often do, I can just be like, all right, I used a quarter pound of clay. I used this glaze. So it's a really helpful tool in the sketchbook.
00:14:10
Speaker
Absolutely love that. though Let's talk about the business side of pottery. Can you tell me about the moment when you decided to become a full-time potter? Yes, it's somewhat dramatic.
00:14:20
Speaker
so I went through a couple of different phases after college. I had my apprenticeship at the Folk Art Guild and then I went to work for a production company and I was a production painter for about a year. And then I decided I wanted to take on another apprenticeship so that I could make more of my own things. And I think at that point, I was was in my early 20s, and I was really waiting for someone to give me permission to start. I thought there's no way I was good enough. It was a scary leap. It was a financial investment. And I just needed someone who knew what they were doing to tell me what to do. So I took this apprenticeship. It was in Washington states. I packed up my life. I moved across the country.
00:15:10
Speaker
And it ended up being pretty much a scam. It was not great. I was like living in a camper trailer with a tarp for a roof and there were like rats nesting in the hot water heater and they worked me so hard. and I barely got time to make my own stuff anyway.
00:15:28
Speaker
And after about two months of this year long apprenticeship, I was like, this is, this is stupid. I'm going to do this anymore. So I packed my life up, including my poor goldfish. And we drove back across the country. And it wasn't that point where I realized that.
00:15:46
Speaker
there was no point in waiting that that people who say they know what they're doing kind of do. And I'm sure in some cases really do, but there's no reason why you can't feel forward and figure it out on your own. And so that was a point where I was like, okay, I'm done waiting for someone to tell me it's okay. I'm telling myself it's okay. And I'm just going to try it for a year and see what happens.
00:16:12
Speaker
What were you feeling when you you finally started to take a plunge and take it take that year and figure it out? I'm a little nervous that I was excited. I'm glad that I gave myself that time constraint because it allowed me to really just plunge in and commit my time and my resources to this thing and really give it a go.
00:16:36
Speaker
I liked the amount of time and freedom in particular. it took It gave me to explore designs, to apply for shows, to get the equipment and to really just go for it. I know that that isn't an opportunity that everyone has because finances are what finances are, but I liked that model of doing things because I wasn't sure that I would take it seriously and really focus on it in the way that I would need to if I were also trying to say continue to work as a pottery painter for the production company. I just, I wasn't getting the free time that I needed to to give it a go. And during this year, what were you focusing on to help you grow the business side of pottery?
00:17:26
Speaker
From the business side, i was so funny I was reading some books and listening to some podcasts yeah back about social media strategy, business strategy. I was filing a business license. I was making a plan.
00:17:41
Speaker
i I can't overstate the importance of social media in a business like this. I think that Instagram and TikTok in particular are really conuses to creative businesses. And I think one of the most important things, especially when you're starting out, is like testing your markets. And a very accessible and free way to do that is through social media. I'd say the other one, it's shows, but at that point, you've already kind of committed to what you have made. And it's important to find out who your customer is and where they are. Turns out people who like video games are on the internet. Yeah. How do you use social media to help you pinpoint exactly who your customer is? Let's see. I mean, I wouldn't say at least 75% of it is just
00:18:34
Speaker
making something and putting it out there and seeing what comes back. One of the most important things for me to learn when I was starting out is that if someone doesn't dislike what you're doing, then you're not doing it right. You cannot possibly appeal to everyone. And you need to get a little specifics if you want to specifically make a sale. Like for someone to connect strongly enough with your work to be like, I mean to own that, there's gonna be somebody else who says, this is weird, I don't get it. So I think figuring out
00:19:16
Speaker
Specifically, like especially through analytics, like I can tell you that my customer is 25 to 42. They're female. They live in the US. And they like this, this, and this video game. like You should know specifically who it is you're trying to sell to. And social media really helped me pin that down by seeing like who was responding to my posts.
00:19:40
Speaker
Stories and polls and comment sections are a great way to get garner feedback on the designs that you're trying to make. And it's a really good way to promote a personal website when you do move to that. I started through Etsy and eventually was able to move away from a marketplace because I gained enough visibility, which was very helpful. Is that into the question?
00:20:03
Speaker
Yes. What would you say are some simple videos people can make to start putting out their work more on social media?
00:20:14
Speaker
question I think that you always need to be thinking about the person consuming your videos, right? Like a common trap to fall into is like, I did this thing that I like, why don't they like it? And you have to make sure that your videos are providing value to your customer, whether it's entertainments or information or answering questions. I think it's important to look at each video and ask yourself,
00:20:40
Speaker
What is my customer getting out of this? Why are they going to want to watch it? are that Is it like something cool to watch? Is it entertaining voiceover? so I would say pick the prettiest, most interesting part of your process. Film that. Even on Instagram in particular, even just a quick 15 to 20 second clip of like some nice brush strokes with music can go a long way. Or it could be directly asking for feedback like, hey, this is what it's like to be me. This is my life. This is what being a potter looks like. Here are some things I'm excited about. What do you think?
00:21:19
Speaker
Do you like option A? Do you like option B? like Helping them to feel connected to you and care about you and care about what you're doing, I think is the ultimate goal of social
Validation and Overcoming Self-Doubt
00:21:32
Speaker
media. It's providing value to the people who are watching you. Absolutely love that. That was some excellent advice right there. Absolutely love that. So let's talk about discovering your voice. Can you tell me about the moment when you knew you're heading in the right direction as your partner?
00:21:47
Speaker
I would say that that was probably those two shows that I did initially was one of those moments when I got such a great response to this option and then this option was my hand kind of down here. That was a good indicator. I had another moment where I felt like I really hit onto something when I started making Thank You Planters from The Legend of Zelda. I just kind of made them,
00:22:16
Speaker
on a whim. And I, I'm also with at the time was making like barrel planters, which I thought would be more universally appealing. But for um whatever reason, the show that I debuted these deku planters, people were literally throwing cash at me and taking one and running away before I even had a chance to like check people out. It was like an overwhelmingly positive response. I think they made like the front page of Reddit or something. And I was like, what is even happening? I didn't think anyone even like sell that, which,
00:22:44
Speaker
in hindsight was a stupid idea for what people didn't like that but I was like no one's gonna know what this is like this is weird this is a weird thing that I only like turns out again you need to get a little bit specific in order to really hit with the right audience so That was a really serendipitous moment that made me feel like I could really carry this somewhere. I ended up opening a pre-order for those and I got a great response. So I think moments like that, and particularly in social media, there will be viral moments where one thing does really well can be really invigorating. Made me feel like I was on the right track. I absolutely love that. What were worry you feeling when these moments came about?
00:23:30
Speaker
So a mix of things, right? Because I am only one person and I don't wanna be a sweatshop. So it was a combination of, okay, I really love this response. I wanna capitalize on it. And also I wanna keep things fresh and I wanna keep things moving forward because TikTok in particular has a very short attention span.
00:23:53
Speaker
So like, yes, you can capitalize on the orders and you can make the same thing over and over and over again, but then you're content founders because you're just making videos and making the same thing over and over again. So it was joy and it was panic, honestly. But I think the joy vastly outweighed it. I think it was really validating hitting on a design like that, that made me feel like people wanted what I had to make really funneled my focus I was like okay people love Zelda they love Pokemon like I'm gonna make in that direction and you just kind of swallow and eventually the next thing will hit and you just kind of keep the faith in the meantime. I absolutely love that. What would you say it was your biggest obstacle when it came to fighting your own boy?
00:24:38
Speaker
my own self-doubt for sure. I spent a long time making what I thought people wanted to make versus actually having the courage to make what I wanted to make. I think especially in your early 20s when you're young, it's hard to be confidently yourself and follow your actual thoughts. And it it's it's something that I still struggle with because It's hard not to get pinholed by social media. And sometimes, you know, I'm sure people would love for me to keep making Daegu planners or Hobbit monks all the time. But sometimes you have to go out on the lemon.
00:25:18
Speaker
and just keep making what matters to you. And I think that that takes a lot of so bravery. I had a conversation with another potter too. Her name is Sabra. Shout out to Sabra. She's great. And she, she was looking at these two paths I was considering and she was like, no question. You need to just commit and make the work that you feel passionate about. But for some reason, as a young person, that was so intimidating to me. um Looking back now,
00:25:45
Speaker
I'm glad I made the choice. I mean, I'm like, duh, do that. i say twenty one But What advice would you give to someone that is also dealing with some self-doubt for their own pottery? Hmm, question. I think to accept that the doubt never really goes away. I still get imposter syndrome, even though I feel like I have been successful. So just have grace for yourself, old space for yourself, and do it scared. Just do it anyway. Really, bake it till you make it.
00:26:22
Speaker
of X and advice, but they're absolutely great shaping nation, self-doubt and impostor though we're going to be there. But the more you make the user becomes, and you've got to keep making things because that's how you get over it. I absolutely love that. hundred percent Yeah. I still get nervous every time I do a so a shop update, like, is it going to sell? And my husband's like, yes, probably. But it could be different this time.
00:26:46
Speaker
Absolutely love that. Some excellent advice. Now, what advice would you give to someone who can discover their own unique voice with their pottery?
00:26:55
Speaker
I think it's a twofer. The first thing is to think about the things that you're passionate about, the things that bring you joy. For some people, it's linear games. For you, it could be really drippy glaze application and surfaces. It could be really feel like you need to paint flowers. and Whatever gets you up in the morning, that's what you should pursue. And then the other thing I would recommend is practice and sketch and try new techniques until you find
00:27:28
Speaker
Like from a physical standpoint, the things that work for you, like what kind of decoration you enjoy doing, what kind of things you enjoy making.
Consistency and Bravery in Creativity
00:27:39
Speaker
If you hate growing and you only want to handle, that's going to inform your work just as much as you like flowers or you like video games. Absolutely agree. That was some excellent advice right there. Haley, it's been great tabs today. And after we come to a close here, what is one thing you want to hammer on with my listeners today?
00:27:57
Speaker
I would say that it's very difficult to turn this into a career. It takes consistency. It takes bravery. It takes making things evenly. I don't think anybody's watching. I don't think that I really got any traction on social media until COVID. And that's only because I decided to just do some weird house projects. It can be a bolt of lightning. And I think that Preparation and consistency are what allows luck like that to happen and so keep going when you don't think anyone's watching and Make the things that make you happy because if you lose the joy then with the point anyway Agreed that was some excellent parting words of advice. Haley. It's been a wonderful chat today. Where could my listeners go and learn more about you? I I am crackpot crockery on hey thanks for listening listening this episode of shaping your pottery with nick torres
00:29:00
Speaker
if you want to ma the art of pottery and dive deeper into techniques of the potterza interview i created a newsletter that does just that it dives deep into the techniques of the potters i interview if you want to learn more go to shapingourpoty dot com slash newsletter or click the link in the description to learn more