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Episode 28 - Strange Horticulture
1.8k Plays3 months ago
This week we talk about a spooky cozy casual mystery plant game called Strange Horticulture that rules. Also, Matt raves about Fallout: New Vegas, Roses has a stylish mystery game to talk about and we rank a bunch of adventure games, ridiculously.
Email us! [email protected]
Games Mentioned:
- A Case of Mistrust
- Fallout: New Vegas
- Zelda: Breath of the Wild
- Strange Horticulture
- Botany Manor
- Assemble With Care
- Unpacking
- Return to the Obra Dinn
- Case of the Golden Idol
- Papers, Please
- In Other Waters
- Dredge
- Strange Antiquities
- Ben Jordan: Paranormal Investigator Case 7: The Cardinal Sins
- Batman: Partners in Peril
- Amnesia: Rebirth
- Portal
- Again
Recommended
Transcript
Crafting with Tin Cans
00:00:00
Speaker
I bought an industrial strength hole punch. It's this giant heavy hole punch that can get through like really heavy paper. And I bought it so I could punch through tin cans because I want to make art out of tin cans because I found another person doing it. and I was so inspired. It was so beautiful. And then I'm like, how I don't know how to get cans.
00:00:21
Speaker
Like literally, I don't drink pop, I don't drink beer, I don't drink energy drinks. And those are how, that's how you would get cans. So i i I know I just told you this, but I had managed to save a single can by myself in a month. Right, right. yeah I need ah ah just a few more cans than that. So I was freaking out because I already bought this like $95 special hole punch.
00:00:46
Speaker
to do this. and I'm like, where am I going to get cans?
Community Can Collection
00:00:48
Speaker
so I ah have a thread with my apartment neighbors where we just discuss things about the apartment and our landlord and stuff like that. and I'm like, hey, y'all, does anyone drink pop or like just anything in a can? and No, and because you're in Chicago, nobody made fun of you for saying that. Correct, yes. They were like, yeah, typical pop cans. I'm like, yeah, pop cans.
00:01:12
Speaker
And so like everyone was really nice about it. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I'll take, I'll take energy drink cans. Uh, if they're, you know, I'm looking for a variety of colors, but really right now I'm looking for like Coke zero. Cause that's a black can. It's real pretty. Actually I do. I said, I only saved one can. I currently have a full can of Coca-Cola in the fridge that I'm probably just going to dump out and use. Just dump it. Who am I fooling? Nobody. You don't want a big tall glass of high fructose corn syrup. I don't drink pop. I don't drink beer, energy drinks. It's just so ah few and far in between and that's not a good thing to binge anyway.
00:01:55
Speaker
None of these things are a good thing to binge. So I, you know, I was like, this is perfect. Um, I'm going to ask all my neighbors and within like 30 minutes, giant bag of cans, like in front of my door, I'm yo so stoked. And there are these cool, like, I've got some neighbors who were giving me energy drinks, some who are like, like beer, like connoisseurs. So there's these different colors and different,
00:02:21
Speaker
cans of beer, and then somebody else is going to give me their Coke and Diet Coke cans. I'm pretty stoked, and that's my day. i like ok ah You're like, I have questions.
Soda Habits and Family Preferences
00:02:34
Speaker
I'm also not a big soda drinker, right? It is so rare.
00:02:40
Speaker
that I have just a Sprite or a Coke or a Pepsi or something like that, right? that is That's such a wild, like twice a year if that rarity. And usually that's just because, oh, I really want to drink something flavored, but I am not drinking at this dinner or whatever. right Not drinking alcohol at this dinner or whatever. So there's zero probability that I will end up with a soda can in my house.
00:03:10
Speaker
yeah But every now and then, like if you are in the suburbs or something, I guess in the city too, depending on how people put out their trash in wherever you live, you will walk past a house and it'll blow your fucking mind how many soda cans some people have in their trash. There are people that'll just buy like 5K and there are people listening to this that are like, yep.
00:03:36
Speaker
They'll just buy five cases of soda and then they'll have like two a day. It's wild, and like I've known, I mean, but there's the phenomenon of the ah the Diet Coke girls, right? huh Women who ah drink, who are like absolutely addicted to diet, and I've known several of these people. Oh, that's my family. I grew up with Diet Coke. I didn't even know what real Coke tasted like and how different it was until way into adulthood, because my family was like, Diet Coke all the way.
00:04:12
Speaker
And gender gender neutral or your or your mom specifically? I would say more the women. so I would say my mom, my sister, my aunt. I don't know what my dad was doing. I think my dad just drank whatever the fuck was there. You know what I mean? Like like a dad. yeah yeah That's what dads do. That's what my dad did. They are either really, really insistent about the things that they eat and drink or they just do whatever's in front of them. He just like hovered up anything that I made, even if it was terrible.
00:04:43
Speaker
Okay, yeah, so I've known some Diet Coke girls in my life and they have been like, I cannot get through five hours, five waking hours without Diet Coke or I will lose my mind.
00:04:55
Speaker
I just can't with that. And it's not like yeah like people who are otherwise generally healthy and like normal people just like I cannot survive and that's the way it's just some families are too and I think my my family was this way when I was a kid just like you're gonna go through a case of Mountain Dew or a case of Coca-Cola in half a week. And it's like, how do these people survive? How did I I did. Same. Same. I don't know. She said as she drank her full mug of coffee at 7.30 PM. Yeah, as he just finished his half a glass of whiskey.
00:05:37
Speaker
No, so anyway, that's my story. um cool And I'm going to be doing art. and And like I said, I was getting nervous. I was getting nervous because I had such and stupid thing to have anxiety over. Because I bought this whole punch. I'm going to show you the whole punch after recording your game. You're gonna be like, what the fuck is that? um But i I figured out a way to get cans. And now my neighbors are giving me all of their cans. And yet in this city, I don't it's a little different than the burbs because we have alleys and like like dumpsters in the alleys. I'm not going to go stalking people's alley for pop cans. Yeah. um Look like a weirdo. Well, i I mean, there are plenty of people that do that. I mean, I guess some people consider them weirdos, but I you know,
00:06:26
Speaker
but you I mean, what I'm saying is you are going to look like a person who is very hard up for money and only a specific type of person will judge you. I'll be like, you don't understand. I need the pop cans for art. No, theyre they're like, hey, no, it's OK. Look, look, I'm not judging. It's fine. You're fine. No, I just really need this Coke can. OK, no, it's OK. I need the red color. The red colors, Karen. I have a bit of change in my pocket if you need it.
00:07:12
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to Save Your Game. I am your host Matt Aucamp with me. The artistic, the financially just fine.
00:07:26
Speaker
yeah Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry about her. You're your co-host pushing up roses. How you doing, roses? Everyone, I'm pretty stoked now. at That whole conversation got me like pretty inspired inspired so and I can't wait to to toss out that Coca-Cola in my fridge. I love the idea of i like i like picturing you standing above your
Artistic Aspirations and Tools
00:07:54
Speaker
sink, dumping out a Coca-Cola with the satisfied look on your face. like I'm getting stuff done.
00:07:59
Speaker
like doing my part. I'm doing it. That would be great. I've been doing really well. I've been i played a few games oh this week, so i'm I'm excited to talk about them. I've gotten back into the, I guess what you would would call a cozy genre in a pretty big way. Okay. um In such a big way, actually, that I'm going through withdrawals. I've already bugged you about it several times. It's like, I don't know what to do. I need a game right now.
00:08:29
Speaker
but The problem is your codes, your requirements for a cozy game are so specific that I'm like, Oh, here's like a seven cozy games. And you're like, no, no. Well, you agreed
Cozy Gaming Preferences
00:08:40
Speaker
though. You're just like, Oh, that's not really, that's not what you're looking for. But exactly it's one of those things. It's got one of those tags. like wow Right, right, right. ah well so what did Did you end up finding anything to play? Kind of, sort of. We're going to be talking about a game today that is a very cozy game. and i looked up that I finished it, I loved it, and then I looked up the tags on that game and try you know on Steam and tried to go from there.
00:09:11
Speaker
Um, so I ended up looking at the mystery tab, like a a tag, like I usually do. And I noticed I had a game that was already in my library, uh, called a case of distrust. It has been sitting there since 2018, my friend, uh, me too. Oh my God. that exact same game has been sitting there Not quite as long, I think, but yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
I got it pretty ah soon after it came out because, hey, mystery game. you know And it came out when a lot of mystery games were kind of having a little bit of a resurgence. And I was pretty excited. And I'm like, you know what? I need a game to stream. This kind of looks cozy. So I booted it up. And it was cozy. It didn't give me what I needed.
00:10:02
Speaker
Um, I saw, I saw like an addict. given what i needed i needed laid out get me Give me what Give me the Um, it's, it is the red ones. No, it, it.
Game Reviews: A Case of Distrust
00:10:21
Speaker
It's a very short, very, and when I say short, I'm going to say three to four hours, which is okay for a narrative game, I think, because it's kind of like reading a short book, except you're interacting with it. It's a very, very, very narrative heavy.
00:10:37
Speaker
which sometimes is good for streams because sometimes people just want to listen to you narrate. But then my throat is like, ah, so I kind of wish I almost I might actually finish it off stream. But it is a very stylized a very stylized mystery game. yeah I can call it a murder mystery. That's not really a spoiler. It's a stylized murder mystery game. It is 1920s. It's hard boiled who are you're playing a female detective in the 1920s, much like you know, Laura bow, or much like if you've seen um the Fisher mysteries, the, the finy Fisher character, it's kind of like that.
00:11:14
Speaker
OK, except that all the screens you're on, they're kind of like static hidden object games where you click on certain things and it'll give you like evidence and and characters you can talk to and get statements. OK, it also looks like there's some rotoscoping going on as well. So when you click on a character to talk to them,
00:11:33
Speaker
you get this very, very stylized, again, kind of vector rotoscoped image of their face and like their eyebrows, but not not every detail. So very vectorized, no voice acting. So just reading myself. It's definitely got that vibe, that cozy, cozy vibe. But also, in a way, I felt like I was working so hard. on the gameplay. The gameplay is a lot like other mystery games where you're finding contradictions, right? So you're proving people wrong via contradictions that they've said in their statements or or via evidence. So I'm like stressing out. I'm like where I can't find this evidence. Where is it? It doesn't sound cozy to me.
00:12:15
Speaker
Exactly. Like it's got the vibe, but maybe not the mechanic. right Yeah, I would say it doesn't have the mechanic that I wanted. And I did have a little bit of beef with it. And I think you'll probably agree with me as an adventure gamer. And that is everything you look at.
00:12:32
Speaker
Which, you know, there are there are things to look at as it is an adventure game. You know what I mean? So there are things just to have a description. They don't serve any other point. They're just there to set the mood. But everything you look at goes into your evidence list.
00:12:46
Speaker
And now I'm getting overwhelmed. Even if it's not evidence. Correct. And I'm okay with a couple of red herrings. That's fine. But I'm saying like, I'm trying to look at my evidence. When your evidence is all red herrings. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, lamp from your desk can't that came into your apartment. This is not helpful. It would be really wild if the lamp from your desk happened to be evidence.
00:13:16
Speaker
It's like the killer snuck in with his fingerprints on your lamp. And then snuck back out, yeah. And it's not a quick process to contradict people or accuse people. It always takes you back to the same part of the notebook and you're scrolling and you're looking through stuff. And it's a bit rough. It's a bit slow paced. But that being said, I liked it. I'm glad I played it. I think my expectations were a little high.
00:13:47
Speaker
ah coming off of a game that I just found very cozy and very exciting. um And that's not a slight to a case of distrust. If I were in the mindset of like, I'm a detective right now, I'm doing a procedural, I'm contradicting things, I think I would like it a little bit better. And and and I do have to give it credit for its art design. It's very simple, but like extremely effective. It looks really cool.
00:14:14
Speaker
That's awesome, yeah, it does look really cool. I mean, that's what drew me to it. Again, not apparently enough to actually play it. like you're fucking not ah But it looks really cool. It looks very dialogue heavy. i In fact, I thought it was a ah visual novel, but it's it sounds like there's a lot it's a lot more point and click. But only only in the kind of hidden object sense, you know what I mean?
00:14:43
Speaker
okay you don't even get You don't get inventory, it is just listed um in your notebook. so But yeah, there is more of a mechanic there. um you know i'm I'm at the stage in this game where I'm supposed to be accusing people of stuff, but because I'm like tiredly going through all these loud all this evidence and all these statements, I'm like, oh'm I'm clearly missing something. Yeah, and then you get that we kind of talked about this a few episodes back that burnout of trying everything and then you can't think clearly and even the most obvious answers are like going way above your head. So I think I'll boot it up later tonight, I'll finish the stream because I didn't realize the game was that short. So it'll be pretty easy to finish.
00:15:26
Speaker
But yeah, I recommend it if y'all have some a few spare hours you like murder mystery games, especially if you like that aesthetic of like vector art and simplistic but effective. I i do recommend it for like a nice three, four hour experience.
00:15:42
Speaker
that's awesome that sounds yeah that sounds really that sounds really interesting it makes me want to at least give it a spit like I don't know how ah well you know like you you said it's a pretty short thing I don't know how long it would capture my attention but it would certainly a three or four hour experience would Yeah, I mean, for for being so narrative heavy, it did a good job capturing me. So I'll definitely give it props for that. Because you know, it's tough. we We just talked about dialogue trees that are like, oh, I just want to click through these. ah But that yeah, I didn't click through anything. I made sure to made sure to read everything pretty thoroughly. So yeah. That's awesome. And what have you been playing?
00:16:26
Speaker
You know, I'm still stuck on. ah it it's It hasn't been that long since we last recorded, but yeah, yeah. So I'm still stuck on Fallout New Vegas, to be honest.
Exploring Game Design: Fallout New Vegas vs. Breath of the Wild
00:16:39
Speaker
Besides the games that I've been playing for review that I'm still, I'm not gonna talk about until my reviews are out, and the games I'm playing for future episodes of this podcast. The game I've been playing for my relaxation is Fallout New Vegas, and it's just, I didn't talk about it much last episode, but I do wanna talk about it this one, because it's just so well done.
00:17:01
Speaker
What I love about this game, and I'm not saying and anything ah game critics haven't been saying for the past 10 years, so but what I love about this game is they they thought, the devs thought of every moment and every every piece of this thing, right? like and There's nothing that you're gonna run into in the game, including just items scattered on the floor.
00:17:28
Speaker
that somebody hasn't put thought into and and really made a decision about. So you go into even like an abandoned house, you're going into an abandoned house to loot it, and the items that you find and where you find them are part of a story.
00:17:48
Speaker
yeah like you find, even if that story is just who these people were, like, okay, there's TV trays sitting on the couch next to a carton of cigarettes, and in their bedroom, they're, clothes are all grimy and everything in the refrigerator is meat, right? Like somebody thought of who these people are and why, or in a, you know, or in another house, they have a ton of books everywhere and there's like, and there's like, uh,
00:18:21
Speaker
you know, I'm trying to think of the sort of things you would find in that house, but there's like fresh fruits, like some, that's a little classist of me to categorize those two in that way. But you know what I mean? Like they have thought about who inhabits each house and yeah what that person was like. um And that's to say nothing of the quests and the, you know, their version of dungeons, which are like the vaults or the, yeah ah or like the factories or things that you that you better overrun by gangs. Every moment of this game is thought through and every, like you're in a big deserted wasteland, right? So you would expect like Skyrim or like Morrowind or even like the other Fallout games, like you're going to have just miles and miles of,
00:19:15
Speaker
you know, textures that you just have to walk through, right? It's like, oh, somebody is just like, ah, just paint this whole thing with sand and throw seven rocks here. yeah But it's not that way. Every point you're at on the map, you can look and see something interesting that you want to get to. And granted, a lot of this, you know, there's a lot of Bethesda games that are like that too, but in ah in new Fallout New Vegas, it's like you're just going to constantly stumble over even like a little hill of sand that has a skeleton buried in it and next to the skeleton is like some series of items that will give you a reason why that skeleton is there. Yeah. And it it means nothing to you besides flavor. there's and That's not
00:20:06
Speaker
It's not every time you find that you're gonna find like a rare weapon or something, right? Or a part of a part of a part of a ah ah quest. You know what you're you you're reminding me of? Like so heavy right now is a Breath of the Wild. That's the feelings you're feeling is how I felt about finding things in Breath of the Wild. the found it's but of the while it It felt like every few feet I i found something either that did help the quest or that didn't help the quest but was like relevant to the world or the story or the people that were in this world. And it was just like, it yeah, everything I found that I thought could be something was something. You're right. That was an amazing thing about Breath of the Wild is you're like,
00:20:54
Speaker
Oh, a weird mountain. What if I try that? It doesn't look like I can climb it, but what if I get enough stamina and I try to climb it? When you get to the top of it, there's something cool up there. Yeah. And when you're walking around Breath of the Wild, especially with the Korok seed puzzles, if people haven't played it, Breath of the Wild is littered with 900 little mini puzzles that grant you like a seed. And I don't think you can use- Like $999, right? Maybe.
00:21:23
Speaker
It could be, it's a lot. it's all Guys, it's a lot. It's a lot of Korok seeds. I think you upset your first 400 or something like that. You can use to do upgrades and stuff. I don't know what happens when you get to 900. If I remember correctly, it's nothing. but You do get something and it's ah special. Oh, really? When you get to 900?
00:21:46
Speaker
when you collect all of them, when you find all the crocs, and you give all the seeds to, what's his name, Zestu? The tree guy? He'll give you something in return. Okay, because I got to the, what was it? I think it was upgrading your inventory the rest of the way. Like I got a bunch of stuff throughout the thing. I think that's how you get the Master Sword maybe.
00:22:09
Speaker
um ah But I got, I think the last thing you get maybe is your your inventory upgrade. And I got to that, but I never got to the ah the full 900. Yeah, I didn't care enough to find all the crops. But yeah, I mean, I bet there's some sort of reward because again, like you're saying in Breath of the Wild every time. and you see something on the horizon, you're like, I'm going to go to that and climb up there. Every time. It's really impressive. It sounds like Fallout New Vegas has that, that detail that people put into it that, that I think people who play exploration games are very excited for. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:53
Speaker
Unlike, so in fall the Breath of the Wild, everything that you find rewards you yeah with a Korok seed or something. yeah In Fallout New Vegas, a lot of the times what you're being rewarded with is just...
00:23:08
Speaker
interesting flavor yeah you're just like oh man that's so cool that this is here and there's this perk that you can take at any point in the game called wild wasteland i think um ah something like that and it just makes the the whole experience weirder yeah so they will put there's like jokes and strange things littered throughout the game and and they'll just be removed if you don't have the wild wasteland perk. And if you do, you see things like there'll be like a crashed spaceship or there'll be like, well or there'll be like weird pop culture references. um yeah But even if you don't have that activated, there's just there's just cool stuff everywhere. And they've thought of every different way you can complete a quest. In this run through, I'm trying to, I'm very anti the Legion.
00:24:01
Speaker
um Kaizar's Legion and I, besides that faction, I'm trying to stay friendly with every other faction and see if I can get them all. I think maybe there's like one or two that won't, but ah if they can, I can get them all to unite by the end of the game.
00:24:19
Speaker
okay because they know that they're and that's another thing about them thinking this through they've thought through if you've done this quest before when you talk to this person they will know that you did that quest and your dialogue options will be different or odds good that's nice talked to a specific person once before you'll have different dialogue options when you talk to other people or sometimes a completely different quest path because you happen to know about something else weird in the Wasteland that might help.
Intricate Game Design in Fallout New Vegas
00:24:49
Speaker
It's it's just such a thoughtful and brilliant game. you You get the sense that nobody put a single line of code or a single asset in the game without asking themselves or each other, well, why? Why is this here?
00:25:05
Speaker
that's That's so great. What a great level. That's what makes games feel like an adventure. It's that level of detail, you know? That level of thought. Yeah, exactly. And they happened they managed to do it while still making you feel like you're totally in control.
00:25:22
Speaker
yeah of what happens in this world. And that is mind-blowing. And I don't think anybody has achieved that level of those two things. The closest maybe is Breath of the Wild, but even in Breath of the Wild, it's not like the game is that it's not like the world is that reactive to you.
00:25:40
Speaker
um It's not like you meet a fairy on one half of the island, and they know that you built up Tarrytown, and they congratulate you, right? What are my favorite things to do? Tarrytown is the quest.
00:25:57
Speaker
i know i love my god What an amazing quest to put in like an adventure game like that. I, oh my God, I was so, I was so into it. I was so impressed. I had never played anything like Breath of the Wild yeah before. Cause I, you're right. I don't typically do those larger open world games cause I get a little overwhelmed.
00:26:19
Speaker
Um, but I'm a big Zelda fan. So, you know, I had to try it. And yeah, I was but was so good. It was so good. I think we got to do an episode on Zelda at some point, but yeah, I would totally be down for that. I consider them adventure games. I really do. So that's Fallout New Vegas. Uh, I've really, really been enjoying rediscovering
Discovering Strange Horticulture
00:26:41
Speaker
it. And I'm glad.
00:26:43
Speaker
I haven't even gotten to any of the DLC yet, but I know some of it some of it's like but some it is the best content in in Fallout New Vegas, so I'm excited. Maybe I'll take a look at it.
00:26:55
Speaker
Man, if yeah, if you wanna play Fallout New Vegas, I will talk to you about it for ah fucking two hours on this podcast. I'll think about it.
00:27:09
Speaker
All right, so ah today, it's funny that we are a coy about this. ah because everybody has seen the title of the episode. I i don't know what I'm doing, honestly. No, I do it, too. I do it, too. and i like Any time you mention the thing earlier in the episode, I'm like, because I'm like, oh, wait, no, it's a surprise. It's not a surprise. You guys all know. I don't know what's wrong with us, but ah where today we're talking about strange horticulture. Yeah, I'm very excited to be talking about this game. Me too. Should we throw up the swanks? Yeah, throw up the swanks. Throw up the swanks. And we'll get into it. As they say. All right, let's do it. Throw up the swanks!
00:28:08
Speaker
Welcome back to Save Your Game. I'm Matt. This is Roses. Hey. ah How was your break? ah Good. Good. Good. Good. Fine Good. fine. Fine. Great. Do you fight care? Good. Good and great. Well, we're here today. We're gathered here today to discuss. We're gathered here today. To discuss it a an adventure game, a 2022.
00:28:37
Speaker
adventure game by Bad Viking. Yeah. Strange horticulture. Is this your first time playing it? Yeah, it is. Yeah. OK. Yeah, I played it maybe a year or two ago, a year ago. Would you think just high level?
00:28:56
Speaker
Man, um, I loved this game. It's good. I could not believe how much I liked this game. And I guess I didn't realize how popular it was either. Cause I was kind of discussing this on stream yesterday as I was playing a case of mistrust. Cause you know, a few people had heard of it.
00:29:16
Speaker
I looked at the store page, as you usually do, you're already on it, if you're on Steam anyway. And it had like 260 reviews, right? And people were like, oh, that seems like a lot for an adventure game. I'm like, yeah, but let's go look at strange horticulture. And it's got like 10,000 reviews, and overwhelmingly positive. so that's So this is a very beloved, like very well liked game.
00:29:43
Speaker
Well, to be honest, I can't imagine, like, not that I don't have criticisms, but I can't imagine not liking this game. Like, I can't imagine playing this game and being like, ew. Ew. Yeah. I can understand having a misconception about what kind of game it is. OK. I can definitely see that and we'll get into it. But I had gotten this game a couple of years ago. And I think upon looking at it, just looking at it,
00:30:11
Speaker
I found it kind of unremarkable and that's unremarkable looking and that's not meant to be a slight. That's more just like I oh i know what kind of game this is going to be. It's going to be pretty simple. It's probably going to be fun. Maybe not too deep.
00:30:25
Speaker
um And I'm a believer that, because you know, I'm an artist, um and I'm a believer that when you make a great game, you don't necessarily have to make the best technical artwork, right? So ah the portraits in this game, for example, they're very simplified, they're not these fine art, you know, portraits like you would find in like Disco Elysium or something like that. um They're very simple.
Gaming Mechanics and Atmosphere
00:30:50
Speaker
Um, and so, you know, I think I maybe judged it maybe a little too harshly. I thought it looked fine, but I wasn't, I wasn't sure where the game was going to go. And then I got into it. Uh, first of all, I found it very difficult to start because it kind of throws you in. I didn't get a tutorial and I'm like, I don't know what to do. That's funny.
00:31:11
Speaker
I had to give myself hints. I'm like, i I have no idea. Absolutely no clue what to do. um And then I got it. Once you get it, you get it, it clicks. There's like a mechanic that starts to roll. But this is one of the most special games that I have found in a while. There is something about this game and the combination of mechanics and genre and atmosphere that make it really unique. And I've been looking for a game similar since since completing this. and I've not found anything I've not found anything that I would like that even comes close. Do you do share my enthusiasm for it?
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah, i I really loved this game. um I stalled a little bit on it at some point, and I don't know why, because when I went back, I just devoured it. And I see what you mean about the art style. This developer, Bad Viking, had only up to this point made mobile games. Yeah.
00:32:14
Speaker
and it kind of comes through, right? um I think they also made flash games, maybe. um But like that that kind of shows in in the art style, at least on the surface, if you're looking at screenshots or whatever. When you're in it, the art style sort of wraps itself around you and you feel um sort of enveloped in this world. And it's, at least for me, I stopped feeling critical of the artwork in any way. I felt like I was in a world and the world just looked like this. yes same um I think it's something about, I think the things that add to that feeling, the feeling that you're in, like the palette is so good and you know you are looking at a lot of books and notes and all of them are rendered
00:33:13
Speaker
ah with realistic handwriting. Yeah, yeah. Like there's a map that looks like, you know, a semi realistic map. yeah ah Yeah. To the point where it's detrimental to the gameplay, where it is hard to find the things you're looking for on the map. Yeah, no, there's definitely some challenge to it that well I'm sure we'll talk about.
00:33:35
Speaker
It's interesting, so I didn't realize Bad Viking had played ah had made a um mobile point and click game that I had played before called Curse of the Mushroom King. Chris of the Mushroom King is just this, I mean it is such a also ran kind of point and click adventure game. It's just you're just a little guy and you're going around solving the most basic of point and click adventure game inventory puzzles. It's like a weird little guy.
00:34:06
Speaker
I didn't I didn't hate it. It's like a it's like a it's like a three out of five kind of game where you're just like, OK, yeah, that was a point and click game that satisfied my playing a point and click game on my phone urges. Yeah. But did not impress me in any specific way. Yeah. Anyway, that that being said, so I think that is that's where Bad bad Vikings coming from and.
00:34:32
Speaker
It's mystifying that they had this
00:34:37
Speaker
complex and interesting of a game in them. So yeah why don't we talk about what you do in this game? So this is why I kind of wanted to do a video on this game. This is why I wanted to talk about it because I was trying, I messaged one of my friends, as I do, I always do, when I finish a good game, I always message ah message someone, right? And I say, I just played this great game. And you know their response will be, well, what is it? And I'll be like, strange horticulture. And they'll be like, what is it about? And I'm like, ugh, how do I? And I realized.
00:35:10
Speaker
I realized I don't know how to describe this game at all. It's kind of ah an odd one out. Yeah, let's start with just the this the basic mechanics and then we can spread out from there and talk about what's special about it. Yeah, yeah. So basically, you are a plant store owner.
00:35:31
Speaker
ah slash manager, you you you do it all. Okay, you are the owner of this plant store and you work there, you are the face of the public in this amazing town, this kind of witchy, spooky town called Undermere. And is that you pronounced it while you're playing it, did you pronounce it Undermere the whole time? Yeah, is that wrong? No, I, I think it might be, it's either Undermere or Undermar, like mere Mar.
00:36:01
Speaker
is an old English word, meaning, like, did I tell you I'm learning old English? No. Isn't that weird? Isn't that a weird thing to do? That's very strange. I'm taking the medieval literature course and in preparation for it, I was like, I'm going to learn old English. Oh, boy. It's just the strangest idea that I've had. But anyway, mare means lake in old English. But while I was playing it, I could not stop in my head pronouncing it under mare.
00:36:31
Speaker
Okay, thinking underwear like like every time it comes up as like the town of underwear Just like the town of undermare like underwear i I think I say mirror because it just sounds a little bit creepier. Oh, it definitely does. the The connotation of mirror, just that sound. ah ah So you are the owner of this shop. It's a plant shop. But it's kind of like a witchy plant shop. you know you sell These are fictionalized plants, by the way. i've noticed I noticed pretty early on that the plants in this game in your shop are not real, as far as I can tell.
00:37:10
Speaker
you kind of deal in these plants that will help the inhabitants with certain things. So you'll get you'll get clients coming to you and being like, oh, I feel, I need courage. I need bravery for this thing. And so you'll be like, let me look up a plant for you. And you look in your book, and you try to determine which plant, if you have it on hand, because you collect, you actually collect plants during the duration of this game. But you you know you start off with a ah nice collection.
00:37:38
Speaker
And you try to find the right plant for the right client. um And usually it really is for ah these kind of witchy purposes. You know what I mean? to To be in tune with who you are, to find bravery, to scare. There was one woman who just wanted to scare someone. yeah That's kind of what these plants are for.
00:37:59
Speaker
the very first person I think that comes and asks you for help is says I'm hearing voices in my house yeah exactly and I don't know what they are I don't like she doesn't know if they're supernatural or or not yeah and she wants a plant that'll help her hear voices and you find a plant that has that property like this magical property where it allows you to eavesdrop on people it doesn't the game never says look there are plants that help you pick locks there are plants that help you over hear things the game never says how they do that it just says that
00:38:40
Speaker
That's just, it's part of the world. That's just what these plants do. And you know, you get your reference book of plants and a lot of the game is again, looking in your book, reading the descriptions and then trying to pick out the right plant. You can examine your plants too. That had a lot of challenge for me. I found the descriptions a little vague. yeah So I, you do agree?
00:39:04
Speaker
Absolutely, I mean sometimes times you are, okay, sometimes you are, um it's very clear how you're identifying a plant. So again, you have all these plants, you can drag them to a little, you can drag them to like this. Like a microscope thing. Microscope thing, and it'll give you a description of your experience with the plant. So it'll say, what'll it say? It'll say like, oh, the flowers, and you can see the plant. Yeah, you can see it. So you know what it looks like.
Plant-Based Gameplay Dynamics
00:39:41
Speaker
yeah And it'll say like, oh, the flowers smell ah fresh and kind of like butter or something. Or like it smells pungent or sour or... Exactly. And then you will get, and they'll say something maybe like, um it's got stiff and waxy leaves or handling this plant kind of makes my hands hurt. Yeah. um And then you will have to consult your book. And your book will say, you know, you might find a plant that's like um the ah the the leaves of this plant, the the flower is beautiful and smells delicious, but the leaves of the plant are ah yeah poisonous to the skin. And you're like, oh, okay, maybe this is the right, maybe this is that plant. um But sometimes,
00:40:36
Speaker
The book will just say like, it has red leaves. Yeah, and yeah it has short leaves. shortly Or it'll yeah it'll just describe the leaves of the plant and nothing about the flower of the plant. And it'll be a picture of the leaves of the plant. And you almost just kind of really have to guess.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, you just have to put your best guess forward, which again, I think we've kind of talked about that. I'm not, I'm not a big fan of guesswork. I like things to be a little more clear, but I could also see this game needing maybe to have a little bit of challenge to it, maybe even a realistic challenge if you're and actually a person like looking through. yeah I don't know shit about botany. Yeah, I don't know shit about plants. Are you kidding me? Well, now I'm an expert on these fictional plants. oh yeah mean portable And I want to make this clear. This game is not
00:41:27
Speaker
a life management game. This is not plant management. You are collecting plants who are naming them. And that's kind of cool, right? You can collect them and kind of organize them on your shelf and you can put a little label on them once you identify them.
00:41:43
Speaker
And that's that's handy. um However, this is not plant management. That's not the kind of game that this is. ah These plants exist as a mechanic to add to the coziness to add to the protagonist job and to ah push the story forward with your clients.
00:42:03
Speaker
In fact, if you think of this as a management game, you're gonna get frustrated because you almost have you have too many plants by the end. Oh, I was so I was like, Oh my god, I have way too many plants. I just want to throw them out. Yeah, you have you have you have too many plants. um Most of the plants you only use once in the story. And yeah so you're gonna have all these plants that you never use again that are really just taking up space. And it it can be very frustrating because you're like, ah, I don't, everything seems all smushed together. And, but there's there's some cool stuff. Like you can, ah you have tags, you have three different colored tags. Yeah, you have these labels. Exactly, exactly. So, and you can write on them. and um ah So, and speaking of the coziness, the writing is just like very,
00:42:56
Speaker
ah Like it's this this this cool kind of like handwriting yeah and it really adds to the atmosphere But you I mean you as the player can decide what each color means So I remember the first time I played it it was like you get yellow ah What is it yellow purple and red? Yeah, ah it's it's like yeah, it's like a light red. It's like almost a pink pink yellow and blue I thought blue could be purple it might you know I don't know because I only use yellow. So I'd use yellow because yellow is the first tag I used yellow for. I am certain of this plant. I know exactly what this plan is. ah Either I've had it confirmed or I have no doubt in my head about what I'm looking at. I used
00:43:43
Speaker
blue or purple or whatever it was for, I have a really good idea. i This has not been confirmed, ah but I'm pretty sure I know what this is. And then I used red for, I have no fucking idea. But this is, but i have this I have at least one piece of information that is leading me here.
00:44:05
Speaker
yeah And so so as I was going through it would be like, you know, I'd look at the red plant and I might have three red plants all named. ah What is the name of like, ah what are the names of some of these plants? Do you have? Oh, gosh. Like corep corpse hand or to kick corpse fingers or something. Do you remember that one?
00:44:30
Speaker
Right. Oh, like um St. John's Poppy was one of them, Jerry Gold, something like that. Dead Man's Fingers, is that what you're thinking? Yeah, Dead Man's Fingers, yeah.
00:44:41
Speaker
Uh, Glowhorn. Yeah. I'm trying to think, Lesser Merryduck. Oh, one of the, one of the, and we'll talk about this in a second, one of the last ones I used was Mikdu. Mikdu, yeah. i've I replayed it a little bit today just to get, just to refresh myself. Yeah. um But these, so like I might have three plants named meekdew. And then I start scrutinizing them as I get yeah maybe more information or I don't get more information, I just have to think a little harder about it. yeah And so tell tell people what happens when you get it wrong.
00:45:19
Speaker
oh So when you get it wrong, your brain breaks basically. If you get it wrong enough times, you get yeah enough times. It gives you a couple times and then it's like, well, you got it wrong. You don't necessarily, you don't die. You don't lose the game. But if you get the wrong, if you give somebody the wrong plant,
00:45:39
Speaker
your brain breaks and you are forced to play a very small logic puzzle. So imagine one of those games where a letter has been torn into pieces and scattered and now you have to put it back together in its right formation. You'll get just very small logic puzzles like that.
00:45:56
Speaker
Yeah, like a like a you get like ah a stone that's been shattered. So yeah it's a couple of things like anything that are all metaphorical, like your mind is shattered. So you have to put it back together or yeah um you have locked yourself out of your thought processes because you're gone. And it's it's basically like if you get it wrong enough, you were constantly on the brink of insanity because this world is ah stressful yeah and And it's it's certainly got a it's definitely a witchy game. You know what I mean? You are you are basically a witchy botanist and you're living in this world of like witches and cults and magic.
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, yeah, witches, cults, murderers, um ah ah like a ah criminal underworld. These are all yeah things that, and and I don't know if we fully expressed how this game, how the gameplay works, but it is, you were sitting at a counter, it's first person, you're at a counter, your cat, Hellebor, is, ah is sitting on the counter and next to Hellebore is a little... ah Like a bell, like a service desk bell. Like a bell service desk bell. And if you want to progress the game, you hit the service desk bell, but you also have some other options. You have your book, you have any um letters that you've received or clue card, you receive a clue card at the end of every chapter.
00:47:32
Speaker
um Yeah, there's so there's a mailman in this game that will come up every now and then and give you letters from people who are your friends. Maybe they found a plant or maybe they've found a clue to where a plant could be. And this is this is actually one of the coolest mechanics that I didn't think I would like. But it set this amazing adventure tone is that even though you don't It's almost like what are those what are those games called? Like, have you played like companions of Xanth or Shannara? No, no, no. So it's it's like this first person type of I don't know how to describe it. But anyway, you don't actually go to these places, ah you open your map. And if you know where you're going, if you know, like if you have coordinates, if you know where you're going, and you click on it, it just kind of opens up a little text box. And it it it kind of narrates to you.
00:48:28
Speaker
you know what's going on so even though you're not you got there yeah yeah so even though you're not actually traveling like the screen doesn't change significantly It still feels like you are traveling. like I loved any chance to get to explore the map, to get to explore a a different, and I say explore kind of loosely, because again, you're not actually going there, you're having it narrated back to you. But I loved finding clues, going to places. That's how you get different plants. You know you find different plants around the map. And I just and loved that.
00:49:05
Speaker
and here's how so you have like a meter like a travel meter yeah the will to travel the will to travel yeah uh and when and by either watering plants or by getting people's orders, right? So they'll yeah, they'll come up to the window, they'll ask for something and you just drag the right plant to them. And if, again, if it's wrong, it'll add to your insanity meter basically. And if it's right, it'll add to your will to travel meter. And maybe you'll also get something else. Like maybe they'll give you a letter or they'll give you a plant that they have. ah yeah Most customers have something for you.
00:49:44
Speaker
and And you have to do this. like this is ah You have to kind of, when you're playing this game, you have to equal parts, like pay attention to your clients and make sure that you're following clues to other plans in this world because you need these plans for these clients. Yeah, somebody might show up and usually, it I mean, the game is planned out, right? like So it is when yeah somebody asks for a plant, you might not have that plant, but you have access to the plant. If somebody for something that you don't have, that just means that you have some clue right you in your inventory as to where that plant is, yeah and you better go find it. And that can be very frustrating because
00:50:36
Speaker
That might mean that your if your will to explore is low, you might just sit there and water plants. Which, honestly, I thought was a little bit brilliant. I'm like, okay, so we are we are getting our will to travel back by doing something calming, like watering a plant. You know what I mean? I'm like, actually, that's kind of brilliant.
00:50:58
Speaker
I think thematically it's brilliant. I think um thematically it is. Yeah. But I think like mechanically it can be that is the only thing that really frustrated me about this game is that there were some times that I went to the wrong place, lost my will to travel and then was just sitting there watering plants. Yeah, I understand. And I'll say that you don't need to water plants to like your plants don't die. No, they don't die.
00:51:25
Speaker
um But yeah, so another thing you might think about is like Carmen Sandiego, exploring the world in Carmen Sandiego. That's a good one, yeah. but ah But yeah, then through your friendships with these people and dialogue with these people, again, you you you get these plants and you unravel some really intense occult stories. um And ah yeah,
00:51:55
Speaker
people come in and, I don't know if we fully, like sometimes people will ask for a plant that does a specific thing and you're flipping through your. thing to find a plant that does that. Sometimes people ask for a very specific plant and you have to look in your book um and you find the description of the plant and you compare that to the plants you have or the plants or you go find other plants that you don't have and then bring them back and see if that yeah is the right one. Other times people will give you the Latin name and you have to flip through your book and look look at all the Latin names and be like, okay, which which one's this?
00:52:27
Speaker
um or sometimes people will describe a plant to you and you have to combine that description with the description in your book and then sort of guess. And sort of guess, yeah. I thought the hardest puzzles though were the map puzzles. We're finding the right place to travel to look for plants. I agree.
00:52:49
Speaker
Those were a challenge. And this map is surprisingly huge. And it's on a grid. So it's on a grid with like rows and columns, like an Excel spreadsheet. So it's like, go to the coordinate, I5. And so there's all these tiny little blocks that you can travel to. But not this is not Breath of the Wild. There's going to be stuff on the map where there's nothing. And then you've just wasted you know time traveling. Because there's nothing. I don't know why I went here.
00:53:19
Speaker
yeah I don't know why you went here i will will say that getting it right, like finding the right location is one of the most satisfying things about the game. yeah But finding the wrong one can really feel deflating and sometimes you get like I think it's not like you have money in the game. It's not like you can't set your progress back anymore. and And even if you get the plant wrong and you break your own brain, it'll just restart you exactly where you were. So yeah, yeah, you um because you cannot progress unless you get everything right. Like it you don't you can't get any of these wrong.
00:53:58
Speaker
in the final continuity of the game, right? Like you always have to retry until you get it right yeah in order for the game to progress. The the game takes place over, I don't know, like 20 days or something. It's 16, ends on the 16th day, yeah.
00:54:12
Speaker
The game takes place over, so it takes place over these 16 days and every day only passes when you've satisfied every customer for that day. Yeah, you have to like complete complete a work day, essentially. ah Exactly. And your work day won't complete unless you've gotten everything right. Yeah. um If, and if you don't, if you don't know the right one, you're just stuck on that one. It's not like you can move on and try a different one. Like you're just stuck there.
00:54:39
Speaker
Yeah, so it's not like you have money or anything, but there's somewhere it's like, oh, I went here and I got robbed. Or I went here. Really? Yeah, or I went here and they told me ah to fuck off. Well, they don't say that, but they're like, they went they I went here and they told me I can't be here. And then you get, you take a hit to your sanity meter. And so now you go back, you're back in the shop and your will to travel is gone. Cause you just traveled.
00:55:08
Speaker
So you gotta go water some plants. And you get hit with a a like a like a blow to your like sanity meter. Yeah. And honestly, that sanity meter, it's so frustrating. It's good incentive to make sure you get everything right. Because man, did I not want to do these puzzles. i There's a hint system in this game and I became unashamed of using it because I did not, under any circumstance, want to do those puzzles again. Those puzzles aren't that bad. It's like there's one where they, again, well, here's the problem. I found the stone one infuriating.
00:55:48
Speaker
There's a stone that gets shattered and it is it's just, it is a puzzle puzzle. It is put together this shattered stone. this old tedious It's just a circular puzzle. Now the problem is it never changes. So every time that one comes up, it is the same image on the same circle and it gets shattered in roughly the same way.
00:56:10
Speaker
and you just have to put it back together again. And then there's one that is locks. So you have like three- That one I find really easy and I can get through that one in a couple minutes. You have three locks and the amount of keys you have to fit each different shaped lock increases with each subsequent unlocking so the first one you have like five keys the second one you have like nine keys the third one you have like 12 keys i think i'm overstating i think it's like more like three five and ten or something yeah but it's you know it's like um you just kind of compare the shapes is there and are there any other ones
00:56:49
Speaker
I don't know. I only got those two because I was so paranoid about fucking up. I did not want to do that. Circle stone puzzle again. I can't remember. I like again, I played those are the only two. i know But those are the only two I got when I replayed it today. ah Yeah. This game, we've gotten really in the weeds about the details of this game. Yeah,
Spooky Cozy Vibes in Games and Media
00:57:13
Speaker
it is really good.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think well, I think the the reason this game is good is because of it the details. I don't think it's because of the story. I think if you're gonna if you were to ask me.
00:57:26
Speaker
I think the story is a very decent cult witchy mystery, ah murder mystery. It's got a vibe and it and it tackles that vibe very well. In fact, my favorite thing about this game is the atmosphere, which I can only describe as spooky cozy. So imagine ah yeah going into like It's a Halloween store, but it's kind of dimly lidded. There's like scented candles everywhere and everything's orange and spooky, but it's so cute and cozy at the so same time. So it's spooky cozy. It's both of those things together. I ah you know what i imagine i imagine spending a rainy night in a witch's house. Ooh, that's a good one. you know like There's nice aromas and there's a warm fire.
00:58:15
Speaker
I like how both of our scenarios had like warm fire and like- And it's like well lived in and you're like, oh, this place is definitely a comfortable living situation, but this is a fucking witch's house. And like, I don't know what sort of danger could be lurking. I feel so comfortable, but I also don't know what danger could be lurking.
00:58:37
Speaker
I feel like for me, since I'm kind of a gothi person and I like this stuff, I never felt like danger. If you're a gothi person, you're just gonna feel at home. yeah right Does that make sense? like it just It feels like the game for you. I'll say this, it does not have any Edward Gory style artwork in it, but it is Edward Gory energy. Yeah, okay.
00:59:05
Speaker
I can see that. That's how I feel about it. and i When I think, when I hear the words, and when I want to think about the idea of cozy gothic or cozy spooky. Yeah. I think Edward Gorey. Yeah. See, now when I think that I just think of this game now, that's what I think. This is the perfect, or again, like I said, like almost going into, it's almost for me, yeah, it's almost like being in my study and thinking about and like reading conspiracies.
00:59:33
Speaker
or like Or something I do sometimes ah when I'm getting ready for bed or wanting to be comfortable is I'll turn off all the lights. i'll put on I'll light some candles instead. I'll do my aromatherapy. I recently got into perfume, so that's my new my new interest. um And i'll I'll put on like true crime or conspiracy stuff. And it kind of it doesn't feel like frightening or ominous. It just feels spooky cozy.
01:00:03
Speaker
ah That's interesting, yeah. That's interesting, Sarah. No, I mean it, I mean it. i If you listeners, if you guys know, so we were trying to figure out games that were like this, games that had the same feeling. And I was, so in terms of identifying plants, Botany Manor was my go-to. Yeah. In terms of something relaxing and um low stress but like a sort of consistent puzzle. I was thinking assemble with care where yeah you take apart and put back together and like take apart fix and put back together like um like 90s electronics. but The other thing I was thinking about was uh I didn't say this to you but was like a duug game unpacking did you ever play that game? Yeah I so haven't played it but I absolutely know what it is yeah.
01:00:57
Speaker
And that that captures a similar gameplay energy. And then when it comes to the spooky, cozy sort of feeling, and what were some of the things that we we kind of like tossed around?
01:01:12
Speaker
Well, I had mentioned because this has, ah again, this has a mystery story that you're unraveling through solving plant-based puzzles, and whatever you want to call those. And yeah, and it's ah it's a nice little occult mystery. And because of that, and rightly so, it has a mystery tag on it. So yeah I had kind of gone through the mystery tag. And a lot of things that came up for that were things like Sherlock Holmes, A Case of Mistrust,
01:01:40
Speaker
um and like other like, you know, contradiction. So ah things that could be considered mystery. But we as we were saying, I want I want mystery, but I want it to be unraveled this way that I'm doing with these sort of plans. That's sort of what I'm getting to. Right. Is ah yeah so like they if you think about it in terms of like solving things with your ah with evidence that you have in front of you, but you have to sort of um ah use your deductive skills and put together
Puzzle-Driven Mystery Games
01:02:13
Speaker
an answer. And if you're wrong, you're just wrong. ah You're thinking of things like ah Obra Dinn or Case of the Golden Idol.
01:02:20
Speaker
um And we also mentioned maybe Papers, please. It's it has a little because it's similar. Yeah. Customers that come up and you solve a little puzzle and then move to the next customer. Yeah. While there is a little bit of an overarching thing happening. Exactly. as well So yeah in other waters is another thing that I thought of, um which is a game where you are just in basically a UI. You don't see any characters. You're in a UI and you're exploring.
01:02:52
Speaker
in underwater up alien world but and you discover, like you start to find different species that sort of work differently yeah than earth species. And through, again, like just all UI stuff.
01:03:09
Speaker
Yeah, you I think, I think there's something to be said for maybe dredge as well, even though dredge is more open world travel, but it's got mystery. It's got that mystery to it that you're unraveling. You are collecting things and and giving things, but like all the games we're naming aside from like the management have some pretty high stakes like papers, please feels very tense dredge feels very tense.
01:03:36
Speaker
um This feels more cozy. So I think we were struggling to find this exact ah combination of mechanics that create this game. Yeah, that's my point. Yeah, I think there we we could not think of any games that would set if you just got off of strange horticulture and you like I want more of this. There's no games that satisfy this itch. Yeah, ah there's just all these games that will scratch like Okay, your entire back itches, right? But like this one will scratch the lower left quadrant. This one will scratch your upper right shoulder. This one will scratch just the middle. There's nothing that'll get your whole back. Yeah. And I really didn't think I would have that issue. I was excited to to find maybe something similar because usually you can, um but I couldn't. I was losing my mind. I was like, there's, this is just not anything I want. And now the only thing I have to look forward to is bad Vikings next game.
Anticipation for Strange Antiquities
01:04:34
Speaker
So right so their their next game looks incredible. It's called Strange Antiquities. um And that is particularly exciting for me, an anthropology guy. nice um It is, it looks exactly like.
01:04:53
Speaker
strange horticulture, it's even got a little cat. Yeah, it's got a different, in a strange horticulture you of course get a black cat being a witchy woman. It's really interesting that these games, one is clearly like a Sarah design game and the other is clearly like a match interesting game. It's fun. Yeah, so strange antiquities is it seems like you run a little antique shop and the ah this things you get are little trinkets and you are looking up sort of the cultural descriptions of them instead of plants and the physical descriptions of them.
01:05:31
Speaker
it is more my shit than I thought anything could possibly be. right like i like it you would have to In order to oh overtake what Strange Antiquity seems to be, you'd have to do Return of the Obra Dinn but but English folk music, right like like or like Case of the Golden Idol, but everything's an X-Man. It's strange antiquities. you It seems like impossible to beat it as terms in terms of mad shit. That's right awesome, though.
01:06:08
Speaker
I can't wait for it. it ah Strange Horticulture only came out in 2022. Yeah. So I imagine we are looking at still a year ah for Strange Antiquities, but i I'm really stoked. No, I can't. I cannot wait for it. Oh, so annoying. Do you hear her bad Viking?
01:06:34
Speaker
She could not wait for it. And she said, she said can't, not doesn't want to, but can't. You do something you don't have a choice is the thing. but you You actually don't have a choice. Clearly you care about the witches of the world. Come help me. Do you have anything else before we go? Do you have anything else to say ah about?
01:07:02
Speaker
Uh, nothing that we haven't said. I just, I just really want to reiterate that I really think this game has something special. Yeah. Like it's created. Like, like I said, the story, it's fine. If you like occult things, if you like murder mysteries, you will like the story. It will unravel as you do the puzzles. It's fine. And I liked it.
01:07:21
Speaker
But that's not what drew me into this game. What drew me in really was that spooky cozy vibe and how I felt playing it, how I felt as I labeled my plants and helped my customers. And i really I've never seen a game with ah this kind of many mechanics put into it.
01:07:41
Speaker
to create an adventure. And so I really think it's something special. I really think you should all play it if you haven't checked it out yet. And I can't wait for Strange yet. I can't. Y'all hear me? I can't wait for Strange. i She says can't. I'm saying can't and I don't have any words over here. That means that you again, you don't have a choice.
01:08:02
Speaker
if she said won't or doesn't want to like you could push back on it but she says can't you have to save my life and anyway that's what I'm gonna end on ah yeah it's it's just an incredible game and you might I'll say this you might not like it but you will you will have never played anything like it I agree I agree So before we leave, and when I say leave, I mean before we go into our amazing rating, every adventure game ever been made. It's the best segment that should just be the whole podcast from now on. Oh God, that would be so tedious. Can you even imagine if that was the whole podcast? Oh my God, I listened to a podcast that is ah that with X-Men and it is them ranking every X-Men story. And granted they've read them all.
01:08:54
Speaker
So it's not like it's not like it's not like they have it's not like with us where they're just making some of it up because they've never experienced it. But yeah, it can like I will listen to it. I will binge it for like maybe a day. Oh, good one. And then and then I can't listen to it again for like two months, which is why we're not doing that for ah for our podcast. It's only a segment. But before we get to that amazing segment, we just want to give a few shout outs. First, we want to shout out the network for a part of Adventure Game Hotspot, Matt writes reviews for them. And we also have many amazing collaborators. You might remember Chris up for our episode that we did on streaming. um She does some amazing interviews. ah Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, i when you're looking for adventure game interviews, but you you you can't find a better person than Grezzo. She is entertaining, a engaging, enthusiastic, and ah ad just so well-informed. Yeah, very knowledgeable. um And some incredible guests too. So definitely ah check her out. And also you may want to check out the adventure game hotspot podcast, which we've both been on at certain times.
01:10:23
Speaker
That feels like the test run of this podcast was the episode that we were both on. That's one of the best episodes. We are very funny, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you hear that, Josh? We are your best episode.
01:10:42
Speaker
Sorry, not, a hashtag not humble at all. No, I guess when I say that, I mean, I just had a lot of fun. No, no, absolutely. I had so much fun and it, you know, it yeah, it was, it was sort of like a proto savior game. So if you've never listened to it, you know, go check out adventure game hotspot. Even, yeah even if you're just looking for more of this podcast, yeah, there's, there's, I'm on a bunch of episodes and me and roses are on an episode together.
01:11:09
Speaker
Yeah. And there's a, there's a very funny truncated version kind of cut together version on YouTube, which I highly recommend you watch. If you want to see some of those very funny, hilarious moments. Uh, yeah. I don't know if I've ever seen that, but I, I got it's up there.
01:11:27
Speaker
So yeah, ah check those two out. um Again, part of our network. Also, feel free to email us. In fact, and not feel free, please. We implore you to email us at Matt and Rosie's.
01:11:44
Speaker
i you know ah i I know you guys are... um going to be tempted to just send us recommendations, and that's fine, you can, but we would prefer um interesting questions. Yes, please. Not just like, what are you guys, what's your guys' favorite inventory object, but like thoughtful questions that we can really dig into, something that can really spark conversation. and Yeah. We do.
01:12:12
Speaker
Q and&A episodes about every, I don't know, seven to 10 episodes. So yeah one should be coming up in not too long. So send us send us your questions. yeah um And again, i any sort of promotion you can give us, we don't spend any money to promote the show. So any promotion you can give us would be great. Do you mean make money?
01:12:33
Speaker
We don't make money on this show. Holy shit, we don't, but- Cause we definitely spend it. I have definitely bought, I bought a ton of games just to talk about on this podcast. I mean, we don't spend money to advertise this show. We don't spend money to promote the show. We do spend money on this show. In fact, guys, there might come a time where we do the whole ah Patreon and ad scenario.
01:13:01
Speaker
Just to warn you, that might happen in the next several months or a year. But, ah because again, this podcast costs money. It costs money and we don't make it back. We don't make any back. um But we love it.
01:13:18
Speaker
you know, one of the things that really helps us keep it going despite the time and money investment is ah listeners. So yeah anything you guys can do to help promote it, spread it to other people is, you know, literally means the world to us and is what will make us keep doing the show if you like it. so Absolutely, absolutely. um So we are going to then go into swanks. We're going to go into our, we're going to max out our maximinos and max these minos. We're going to max all these minos and then we're going to do some ranking and I'm excited. I'm excited too.
01:14:14
Speaker
Everyone, I hope you enjoyed your break. I'm pushing up roses. My co-host with me, Matt Aucamp. We are rarin' and ready to go with ranking every adventure game. So, ah earlier, while we were recording this episode, just so to speed this up a little bit, I pulled up all the random numbers.
01:14:35
Speaker
so I don't have to do it while live. And I've taken a look, ah like as I do it, I just like glance at it. I don't look at the the titles, but I have, everything on the spreadsheet that I've played is highlighted in green. Everything that I own is highlighted in blue. Everything that I have started and never finished is highlighted in yellow. It's just a weird system that I have. The only reason you need to know that is ah that,
01:15:01
Speaker
There are so so many games here that we haven't played, but also there's so many games that we weirdly have. Like we've played together, we've played so many adventure games. So as we look through these, I don't know if any of these are games that we've played.
01:15:20
Speaker
It's gotta happen, right? Like there are gonna be times that it's gonna be like four games we've played. Absolutely. And there are gonna be times where it's gonna be five games we haven't. We've played so many. I know, I know, I know. So, okay, let's jump in. 931 is our first game and it is, okay, again, I knew some of these were highlighted, but I didn't.
01:15:40
Speaker
This is a game that I own and have not played yet. And I am so sorry, Francisco, if you're listening. This is Ben Jordan, Paranormal Investigator. Case seven, The Cardinal Sins. You know what? i ah Guilty. I have also not played the Ben Jordan games, but- I've played Ben Jordan one and I liked it a lot, but it was also the first game. So you know he had, I'm sure it has developed since then.
01:16:06
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. Where would I place a Ben Jordan? Cause these are a little bit older now. They're a little older and they are his like freeware AGS games. It's before he really came into his own as a developer. So like if I were basing this on Ben Jordan one, I would put it above our mediocre block. Yeah.
01:16:28
Speaker
but maybe below the very interesting stuff block. You know, like there's the very interesting, like the weird experimental stuff, but this is Francisco still learning how to make games. Like, you know, yeah Lamplight City goes on here. It's number one over Frambo in a second, but Ben Jordan, paranormal investigator, he's still kind of learning how to make games. Yeah, that's fair. And they're kind of shorter. Again, definitely above the mediocre block.
01:16:56
Speaker
Oh yeah, above the mediocre block, but maybe to the end. I don't know that it goes. it' so there' ah So what we've got there is like Legend of Hand, Hell of a Cyberpunk Thriller, and Dark Grim Mario. Please put it above those. And the reason I i would say that is simply because these games have definitely solidified their place in adventure gaming where the others have kind of dropped off. And I'm i'm not saying that as a slight to anything.
01:17:25
Speaker
I'm just, I'm just reporting the facts. Okay. I would almost put it ah above darker, Marryopolis and hella cyberpunk. They're below a legend of hand because legend of hand has like a really, again, these are games we haven't played. that a Hand has just such an interesting look and idea about it. Uh, but if it goes above legend of hand, do you know what it's going underneath? Uh, Amos green. No murder. She wrote.
01:17:53
Speaker
Oh, fuck yeah. ah Number one. Do you think, okay, so ah below or above Legend of Hand? What are your thoughts? Below.
01:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think the same thing. Okay. Yeah. Sorry, Francisco. You're not as good as murder. She wrote.
01:18:10
Speaker
you know left me out and
01:18:17
Speaker
nicely hidden object game Okay. All right. 3 96 is our next one. I like it when we get low numbers. Cause that's like, we get, we come closer to the classics. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I've never played this game. Okay.
01:18:33
Speaker
I know of this, I've heard of this game. Did you know, and I'm sure you do, that there are Batman point and click adventure games. Did the Batman Lego games? No, they're Batman point and click adventure games. No From the 90s. I believe there are two. Okay. This one is called Batman Partners in Peril.
01:19:00
Speaker
which now that I'm looking up, feels a little bit, looks a little bit more visual novelty than. Let me look that up real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a, wow there's riddles, there's a maze. I think that looks kind of cool, honestly. It does kind of look cool. um I know there is another Batman adventure game that I think is point and click if I'm, if i'm remembering correctly. That did not seem to come up. Hang on, PC Gamer. Batman point and click from long before. I'm looking at I'm looking at a ah ah Reddit thread and they could. It was called the Batman and Robin Activity Center. No, I'm not looking at that. I'm looking at the Batman Returns. That's not it. Yes, it Batman Returns is what I'm actually thinking. Yeah, that does look like a point and click.
01:19:56
Speaker
Correct, yes. It is a DOS point and click adventure. That is not, and yeah, it and it is just like him as a pixelized sprite on these like hand painted backgrounds. That's so interesting. It has an atrocious review though. Okay, but that's not the one we're talking about. We're talking about Batman Partners in Peril um by Inverse Inc. from 1995. Good lord. I know. Or 1996, sorry. i I apologize. I think this is going to go kind of low above the bad games, but maybe like below the mediocre days. Yeah, I agree.
01:20:37
Speaker
Okay. So do you say it goes below Minecraft story mode, but above blue force? Yes, I think right right i love we're just always on board. There's not, we have yet to be, I have, one of us has been like, I think belongs here. And the other one's like, no actual. And like, well, I made a case, remember I, yesterday I made a case for like, what it was a Byzantine betrayal. I told you to tie it for now. right
01:21:07
Speaker
yeah Okay. All right, our next game. um This is a... This game is very recent. It is 23.90. Another game I haven't played, but I've played games in the series. This is Amnesia Rebirth. Oh, Amnesia. Have you played the Amnesia games? They're too scary.
01:21:32
Speaker
They are very scary. Like I tried and I'm like, uh, no, no, no. Quality is up there. Yes. I have played.
01:21:45
Speaker
the first amnesia and I've played a little bit and I've played some of the short and short games and I've played a machine for pigs just a little bit. um But I've never played him amnesia rebirth. Everybody was saying it was sort of a return to form ok for amnesia. ah We can't speak on that because we've never played it. But ah if this if they're right and this is a return to form for amnesia, I would put it pretty high because amnesia's pre amnesia games are good.
01:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, they are good. I would put it pretty high. I would maybe put it below scratches, but above like Amos Green and Byzantine. I would personally put it above scratches. Above scratches. See? Yeah.
01:22:31
Speaker
I thought Scratch is, to me, ah here's my argument and you can disagree. Here's my argument is that Amnesia would not exist without Scratch. Scratch has created this idea of this first person horror suspense thing and this ultra horrifying experience um yeah where you're just constantly tense. And Amnesia sort of expanded on it by by putting like survival elements in it. um ok So I would actually, i that's why I would put it right below scratches. And I would continuously argue as we keep going to leave them together. No, now that I think about it.
01:23:14
Speaker
I would probably i I would agree now that you've said that but also I would also agree that or I would also think that um scratches is more of a very traditional point and click where amnesia maybe falls into adventure survival horror. Okay, yeah, you're right. You're right. That's a good point too. Yeah, kind of like a clock tower.
01:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, I'm comfy with putting it but ah below scratches. And I like this because it's almost like we are, because who knows, there's 300, there's 3,000 some games on here, almost 4,000 games. So we might never hit another amnesia game, so it's almost like we are ranking the whole of amnesia here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. All of amnesia goes here below scratches, but above um but everything else.
01:24:04
Speaker
yeah above our two number fives, which are Amos Green's Final Repose and Visiting the Betrayal. It never changes. We finish the whole thing and those will still be tied. Yeah, I know. We really have to play those games. That'll be an episode is the deciding between Amos Green's Final Repose and Visiting the Betrayal. Okay. Oh my God. Our next game is like a godsend. I am really stoked that we hit this one. Oh, let's do it.
01:24:31
Speaker
what do i like about this list is we are getting stuff that we are at least familiar with so yeah roses this is number 9 10 it is a game released in 2007 by the company valve valve okay called portal oh my god portal oh what a good entry and it's also like Yeah, there's like going to be a lot of like, I feel a conversation to be, well, we're not going to have a long conversation. Okay. So what i'm I'm going to say this, I'm going to, so we should, I think we should talk about what makes portal so great. I am struggling not to just immediately say number one.
01:25:14
Speaker
But Portal is a puzzle platformer game sort of that is ah structured in like the the the style of a first person shooter. And it is based in like, I guess the Half-Life universe. I never played Half-Life, but it was yeah yeah huge when it came out. People were saying, you know, like using words like best game of all time or best game of the decade. ah Favorite game, I think is a good one.
01:25:41
Speaker
What it does is it starts out with just like, it's got a little bit of humor and it's, it appears to just be a puzzle game. You are solving puzzles with these two portal guns.
01:25:55
Speaker
Again, I don't know if anyone here needs me to describe portal, but I'm gonna. I don't think you do. you you You have these two portal guns and ah you know an entry and an exit portal. And you are solving these really complex puzzles about physics and space, spatial reasoning with these portal guns. And as you go on, it starts to unravel into a really kind of Not complex, but interesting and deep story. Yeah, with very interesting story. Very funny. It's a very, very funny. Very funny. And I would say it's innovative for the time. So Portal is certainly my kind of game humor wise, but it's not my kind of game puzzle wise. So we're going to have to figure out where to put this.
01:26:49
Speaker
I can see how you would prefer Fran Bow and Papers Please to Portal. Absolutely would, yeah. But Portal again is just, it is it is a qualifier for video, like best game of all time in a way that those two, I don't think i don't think would end up on that list. Maybe if you had a list of the 500 best games of all time, Fran Bow and Papers Please would end up on it, but I don't
01:27:17
Speaker
you know, top 100. Do you wanna put this as our number one? I do, but I know, I hear that you don't, so. Well, here's my thing. In what way do we resolve it? It should go above Fran Bow, though. What's number one right now, Fran Bow? Number one is Fran Bow. It needs to go above Fran Bow. Okay. So I would say put it as number one right now, and maybe that'll change, but the list of how it is, like it's not my number one favorite adventure game, it's just not, you know? But. Yeah.
01:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, you are going. Yeah, this is going to be one as soon as a game that you like love comes on here. You're yeah i'm going to argue that out of here. Yeah, yeah yeah I hear you. I hear you. OK. All right. So Portal is number one. And I think that is like a legit number one. Right. like I think there are plenty of people, maybe not us, but there are plenty of people who would put it as the number one adventure game. Yeah, I think so I think so, too. I definitely do.
01:28:15
Speaker
All right. You said I sucked at that game. Anyway, what's next? All right. So i here's our fifth game, and we might stop here. ah How much? Yeah, we're an hour 42 in. Yeah, we um need to stop. So this is our this is our last game. So we just had to cut something out because I had a mistake on my thing. So ah what we will do here, we're going to roll it live. Rolling it live.
01:28:44
Speaker
Uh, no whammies, no whammies. All right. Uh, sorry, I lost my random number generator because I wasn't expecting this. So 32 69 is how many we have left. Okay. Uh, all right. Hope for a good one. Ready? I'm ready. We got 10 68, which is come on, baby. Come on, baby. Oh, okay. Okay.
01:29:13
Speaker
This is going to be hard to Google. What is it? It's called Again. Again? Yeah, it's a game called Again. Okay. It's called Again. All right, here's here's some things that will help you. It is ah by Sing. C-I-N-G. Okay, it came up right away. I found it. yeah Okay, yeah. So, okay, it's a Nintendo DS game. Yeah.
01:29:40
Speaker
All right, and bad but off to a bad start.
Interactive Crime Novel: Again
01:29:43
Speaker
The DDS had some really bad adventure games. It's it's called, again, Interactive Crime Novel. So good. The Interactive Crime Novel, again. All right, let's see. The story centers around an unsolved serial murder case reopened after 19 years called the Providence Murders of 1991. The killer would leave cut out images of the eye of provenance on American dollars by the victims.
01:30:08
Speaker
um starring star? Yeah, because it has live act it it has live acted people in this. Okay, you're Jonathan Weaver, nicknamed Jay, along with his partner, Kate Hathaway. um motion capture actor, al Eric Bozic, and Renette, Renette Tom. and I don't know. Well, I don't know, man. It's got 50% on ah Metacritic as 2.5 on Amazon. It looks not great. I'm gonna it's got 3.5 on adventure gamers It's got 3.5 on adventure gamers. Are you looking Emily? Emily more grantee reviewed it. I don't know her reviews offhand but
01:30:54
Speaker
ah Again, could have been better, but it's still a must play for fans of Singh's other game. Okay, so this is a Singh fan. i do trust I do trust Emily. I know their reviews and I do trust that, but... Okay, okay, okay. I don't know, I don't know where to put this thing. I'm sure I've read her reviews. I don't know her by, I don't know her reviews by name, unfortunately. um Yeah, ah it looks weird. I don't know. She thinks this is mediocre.
01:31:24
Speaker
her This falls in the mediocre category. Listen, to me it's mediocre. It's not the worst game I've ever seen. It's certainly not last, but- All right. So then, okay, if it falls in mediocre, it's gonna go above Elena displaced reality. Which I would agree with. Okay, so now, okay, if we put it there and below Krabat in the secret of the Sorbian king, here's what we have. Our wall of mediocrity now,
01:31:53
Speaker
is a mediocre point and click game, Krabat and the secret of the sword being king. A mediocre detective FMV game again, a mediocre ah i walking simulator, Elena displaced reality, and a mediocre choose your own adventure game, Minecraft story mode. So like we've run the gamut here. We have hit peak mediocre. yeah yeah peak me park So do you agree it goes above Elena, but below Krabat?
01:32:23
Speaker
I could put it there, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I could put it there.
Game Ranking Wrap-Up
01:32:27
Speaker
And that's our last game today. ah this game sir That was a wild pick. Yeah, that was a wild round of this game. That was all over the board. I am really into that. I'm sorry, Francisco, that your game is two below murder, she wrote. You can blame me, it's okay. And five below Amos Green's final... Amos Green's final repose. But, hey, you beat dark grim Maruupolis, so...
01:33:02
Speaker
Yeah, so there's some good things there. All right, we have 21 games on our list. ah this is This is great. So that will do it for us. Yeah, yay, we did it.
Podcast Closure and Final Thoughts
01:33:14
Speaker
We did another podcast in the basket. I love having doing your cat.
01:33:19
Speaker
ah The cat ate the podcast. Sorry, everybody. No podcast this week. The cat ate it. No podcast this week, guys. I can't believe my cat's been here listening to me ramble, just dead to the world, asleep in her little pink bed. Aw. She's so cute. I just love her so much. um Well, I think before we leave, um ah you told me off air that you have one like really intense piece of wisdom for our listeners. So I think they should really like focus in, yeah listen up, yeah and i go ahead. Yeah, I think I'll just come closer, closer to the screen, closer, closer, okay? Okay, all right. Podcast is art. And artists suffer?