Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 42 - CHRISTMAS EXTRAVAGANZA!!!
1.7k Plays18 days ago
PushingUpRoses and Matt Aukamp welcome you into their trans-dimensional Christmas cabin to play a bunch of holiday-themed games with them and their amazing guests. We play a cat game with Crimson Diamond's Julia Minamata! We play an obnoxious boy game with Alasdair Beckett-King. We play a creepy depressing game with Francisco "Grundislav" Gonzalez. And wrap it all up by playing a demon game with Party of One's Jeff Stormer. There's also talk of nog, window-jumping, wassail, and much much more fun!
Happy Holidays, everyone! We hope you had fun and enjoyed this extra-long episode and we'll be back early 2025!
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Julia: https://www.juliaminamata.com/
Alasdair: https://www.abeckettking.com/
Francisco: https://www.grundislav.games/
Jeff: https://www.partyofonepodcast.com/
Games Mentioned:
- Christmas Nightmare
- Lonely Christmas
- Crimson Diamond
- Milo and the Christmas Gift
- Milo and the Magpies
- Watch Over Christmas
- Scribblenauts
- Rosewater
- Last Christmas
- Still Life
Recommended
Transcript
Surprise Visitor and Holiday Excitement
00:00:49
Speaker
All right, I'm super ready for Christmas. I've got my gingerbread men cooking in the oven. Got John Denver in the Muppets album playing over there. I've got my weird jelly decals up. This is gonna be great. Oh my God, I love Christmas. What the heck is that? Hello? Who's there? Oh my God. Okay, I'm coming. Matt? Roses.
00:01:15
Speaker
what what's What are you doing out there, buddy? Hey, hey, thanks for letting me. I'm in i'm here for Christmas. Oh, that's interesting. I don't remember inviting you. All right, I'm just taking off my snowy boots here and my coat. And oh, look, a cozy little chair. I'll sit down in here. Oh, you got some eggnog for me. Thank thank you. OK. Yeah, I knew what, come on in. I've got some gingerbread men in the oven. I've got my John Denver and the Muppets album playing. I know you like the Muppets.
00:01:45
Speaker
I do like the Muppets. i you know I prefer the soundtrack to ah Muppet Christmas Carol, but I'll show her. I'll listen to some John Denver and the Muppets, sure. Yeah, thanks for um and not inviting me over. I really needed something to do on this ah Christmas blank, Christmas Eve, Christmas no time.
Sentimental Holidays and Gaming Plans
00:02:06
Speaker
It's time adjacent to Christmas. Well, you know what? It is Christmas, so I'm glad you're here, Matt. Thank you, thank you. I'm glad I'm here too.
00:02:14
Speaker
how How are you enjoying your you Christmas blank so far? I love Christmas. Christmas is one of my favorite times of the year. ah You know, Halloween, Christmas, the the ultimate the ultimate holidays for me. the ultimate holiday, Halloween Christmas. It's the Christmas where we all dress up in scary outfits. and yeah I guess that is how people used to celebrate Christmas though, huh? Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love i love all the Muppet Christmas things. I love... Ignog I love Christmas dinner. I even like the music that's overplayed. I really enjoy Christmas It's one of the it's one of the last memories I have with my parents ah Not at the same time. They died different at different times, but they each died around Christmas or after Christmas. So Yeah, I I like it. I try to take it all in. What about you match? How are you doing? You've been playing any uh
00:03:11
Speaker
Any Christmas-y games? Yeah, I love Christmas. I love eggnog. I love, ah you know, I love Christmas treats. I love presents. I love giving and getting presents. I love a Christmas tree. So, you know, I decided this year I'd pick up some new Christmas games. Oh, great. I've been playing a lot of them with my friends who I hope it's okay. I invited them all over. You did?
00:03:34
Speaker
to your cabin. Really? I told them it was our cabin. so ah i Some friends of mine should be showing up throughout some friends of ours actually should be showing up throughout the ah the evening to talk about all these games we played together.
Christmas Horror Games Discussion
00:03:50
Speaker
um You'll remember, we played a lot of them all together in a big chair with us and all our friends, remember? Oh, right, I was very cozy. ah I also, I got really sick after that, so I and don't recommend sitting in a chair with that many people, but I- Sorry, I had the plague, it's my bad.
00:04:12
Speaker
But I played a couple before that. I played two specific games that I found on, um, they were the same bundle on Steam. The first one was called Christmas Nightmare.
00:04:29
Speaker
ah right
00:04:32
Speaker
and the second one I have to even look it up ah Christmas Nightmare and Lonely Christmas now these games are horror Christmas games where ah that it's just they've used basically the same exact assets. And they have the same premise, which is you are alone in a house, on Christmas, and something scary is terrorizing you. And it's just a series of fucking jump scares. So the no the first game, I said, Christmas Nightmare tried to do something a little artistic, and ah a little bit, where both of them, they're very high definition.
00:05:14
Speaker
but it's all, yeah, clearly like pre-rendered assets that they bought. yeah And then just compiled together. And ah you um you start out like in the street, just lighting off fireworks for some reason, and then you keep getting notes from your neighbors like mad at you for lighting off their fireworks that they were saving for new years, and then you do it again, and then they do, they whatever, you go to the store to get some groceries and there's like some fake scares, like some fake jump scares like, oh oh, where's the cashier? Oh, what's that noise in the back? And then it turns into this, it's a man who's just shitting wildly in the back. Like literally?
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that it's behind a door, but it is like the worst, grossest, scatological noises you've ever heard, just coming from behind this door. And it's like, oh god, okay, I kinda wanna stop playing now, but I'm gonna see this through. And then it's about 20 more minutes of you just walking around your house while like a goblin is tormenting you, like a little Christmas gremlin and like kills your child and your wife and whoa wraps them up in gift wrap and leaves them places. That's hard news.
00:06:26
Speaker
This doesn't sound like, so okay, correct me if I'm wrong. This is a game with ah with a Christmas band-aid on it, like a like a setting. Well, yeah, the theme is Christmas. It doesn't have to be a Christmas game. Everything in the house is Christmasy. Okay.
00:06:45
Speaker
um And then it's like, oh, you're alone on Christmas because you got in a fight with your wife and you, and she left. And okay the end of the game is you wake up from this horrible dream and you call her and apologize. And that's.
00:06:59
Speaker
okay And so that's what I'm saying is it's trying to do something artistic. Like there's a point there a
Milo and Cozy Game Critiques
00:07:05
Speaker
little bit. um Just a fairy glib and shitty one. And and then here Christmas, ah Lonely Christmas is you are a, hey, tell me if this one sounds familiar. You're a child named Kevin who was left alone on Christmas while your parents were. I know.
00:07:22
Speaker
I've never heard of anything like it. So you sort of, you you wake up, ah and this was funny because it's like, these are both like survival horror walking, not survival, just horror walking simulators, jump scare things. um But because you're a kid, you're just like a little shorter than everything, which I thought was really funny for a while. Do you remember in, what is it? ah ah Is it what remains of Edith Finch, where at one point, a couple points you become a kid, and then your just perspective is slightly lower? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that's true. i think you Don't you become like a baby and stuff as well? Yeah, and just that switch of perspective while you're in first person is for some reason so fucking funny.
00:08:10
Speaker
It's like, oh yeah, I am a little lower to the ground. so and it But it is, there's like you're just like walking around the house doing Christmas chores, chopping down a tree, decorating it, and then a guy comes to deliver your pizza, and but at the same time, you find out there's a killer on the loose, and of course, the guy who delivered your pizza is the killer, and he's in a jesters outfit, and he's just like, you just have to basically run back and forth around the half loop of this house. okay Waiting for more jump scares to pop out. yeah And that's how the story unfolds. You just walk to the one end, something happens. You walk to the other end, something happens. you are like it's just It's literally just that. And he like murders your parents at one point and you end the game by stabbing him to death. And then ah then you wake up from a dream.
00:09:01
Speaker
like the last one just like the last game and by the way there is a fireworks setting off thing it is literally some of the assets are 100% the same of course and these are by different people I don't know if there's like a community of people that makes these like really shitty ah horror games but right And if you're listening, and you made one of these games, and you weren't intending to just get people's money, and this is something that's passionate for you, then I'm very sorry, but I can't imagine that's true. But then you ah you wake up, and then you go downstairs, you open your present, and it is like a figurine of the murderer, the end. Great.
00:09:43
Speaker
So that's a lonely Christmas and Christmas nightmare. Don't merry christmas don't buy that. They were both 40 minutes long and bad wow and cheap and like cheaply made. and i So yeah, that's.
00:09:57
Speaker
Okay, well, the good news is, Matt, well, thank you for your service of playing and reporting back of these terrible, quote, Christmas games. The good news is we played some really interesting. Interesting, not necessarily good. Not necessarily good, but longer, more detailed. We played some some games, some Christmas games with our friends, as we said, and we're going to talk to you all about them in hopes of ah giving you some Christmas cheer, holiday cheer.
00:10:27
Speaker
And you know what, actually, ah let me pull this blanket off. ah You might have noticed I brought in this large object covered in a blanket. um yeah Our first guess is it's actually just in the room. So let's go to some incidental music and I will pull the blanket off of their head.
00:11:19
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. So happy that you could be with us here today. I have with me two very special guests, my very cozy, very lovely, very holiday spirit, my co-host Matt Aucamp. Matt, Matt, thank you so much for being here with us. Hey, thanks thanks for having me. I'm just sitting here with my with my robe on and my- A robe? I have a robe and the- Dang.
00:11:47
Speaker
ah snow is fluttering outside the window and I should probably close it so I'm gonna go do that while you introduce our guest. Thank you, Matt. Thank you for that input. With us today, the amazing Julia Minamata of Crimson Diamond fame. Julia, thank you so much for being here with us for this holiday extravaganza.
00:12:10
Speaker
Aw, thanks so much, roses. And thank you, Matt. I hope he's back from the window and can hear me thanking him, but oh thank you. Julia, how are and how are you how are you doing? how How are you this holiday season? and Yeah, it's it's a quiet quiet season for me this year and I'm kind of enjoying it It's been hectic. It was hectic for a little while there oh with the game and all with the Crimson Diamond release and Like updates and patches and fixes but yeah, it's just the perfect time to just slow it right down and come chill out with some folks and Talk Christmas games and i'm i'm yeah, I'm looking forward to just a peaceful time this year
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds great. That's awesome. So speaking of ah a peaceful Christmas time and Christmas games, the three of us all played a game called Milo and the Christmas Gift.
00:13:08
Speaker
I mean, and what did I play it or did Matt force me to play it? No, no, that's our dynamic, honestly, is Matt thinks of a game, I'm like, I don't know about this game, and then I play it anyway. And at least half the time, you love it. Yeah, I would say even probably more than half the time. um but So overall impressions, what did you guys both think of this game?
00:13:38
Speaker
It was really cute and cozy. I love the illustration style. It looks like a children's book. um I hadn't played a game like this in a while and I had to recalibrate my brain to be like, puzzle logic. And I got to say like, I don't, my brain doesn't really work that way. And I did have to consult a walkthrough. So I'm sorry, that's my confession, my Christmas confession.
00:14:03
Speaker
Oh, we don't we don't mind that i'll give a Christmas confession, too. I also had to console. I am not going to say anything. I admit nothing. I don't think my brain works like that. It's it's one of those games where the puzzles are not like diegetic, right? It's not like, oh, you have to think about what you need to accomplish and then what you know, tools or things in the atmosphere you have to accomplish that goal. It's like these disjointed puzzles where it's like, oh, you have to, you have to open a lock and you have to look at things in the environment like, oh, ah there's the color on the lock is white and there's four white candles or whatever. So it's number four, like it's stuff like that. And it's like,
00:14:58
Speaker
Did somebody really sit down when they were coming up with this, this like they were like, all right, I need a good combination for my shed lock. Let's see, there'll always be three white candles in my backyard. Well, that's the thing, right? I feel like I'm probably fortunate that my brain doesn't really work like that, because certainly, you know, most of the time the real world just simply doesn't work that way. So probably for the best.
00:15:25
Speaker
What a weird a weird kind of puzzle because technically it is a logic puzzle but it is illogical by the way Matt is speaking about it's like no but but why do we have three bells outside So it's like he always for all eternity. Yeah. So yeah, we have a logic puzzle. It's not moon logic. It's not inventory based, but it's so illogical that it's kind of infuriating. And can we just, can we just talk about the main issue here? Why did that little girl leave the door open? Okay. Let's talk about this plot of my oh yeah's a plot. Yes. All right.
00:16:06
Speaker
so it's by well the basic details it's by second maze games and um well it's published by second maze games which published like the white door which is one of the rusty lake games um and it's by a guy named uh oh man i'm gonna butcher this yohan shirft Okay. Do you guys think it's Sjohann Schurft? Maybe Schurft. I don't know. um But it is, ah he he released a game a few, was it a few years ago or was it last year? Called Milo in the magies and And
00:16:44
Speaker
It is this, it's it's exactly this. It's like this this story about a little cat but um and his you know misadventures and this is his free Christmas game that he actually released. Okay, so Milo and the Magpies was 2022. This was released last year. I guess we're just getting around to playing it now. um but The backgrounds are like fully hand-drawn and hand like It's either hand painted or like colored pencils. Is it really? Looks great. Yeah. Yeah, I think it might be. why I'm I'm watching him make it now and it's watercolor. OK, it looks like almost like a combo of like watercolor and maybe you like watercolor pencil. Yeah. Yeah. So it's giving it it's kind of extreme ah like children's book kind of look. And then you play a little cat.
00:17:42
Speaker
yeah Okay, because ah first of I have the stopping map because I didn't know what I who we we were in the game I thought initially that I was the cat because it's called mile on the Christmas gift and so there's the cat and then there's the bunny and then but things happen like does the cat plug the phone in what is happening that is where Yeah, you are on some level. I guess you're a you're an all-powerful God Yeah, so I feel like, yeah, I feel like that's who we are. We're an all-powerful God. And not the cat or the bunny or anybody else in this. Oh my God, yeah, and rather than playing the cat, you are prodding the cat. You're like, do something. Yeah, that's all I felt, that you're guiding the cat. Do anything, buddy. Yeah, it's kind of like one of those, like an Amanita game, right? You are this semi, yeah, this powerful,
00:18:28
Speaker
third party who just gets to poke things and see what they do. um Yeah, yeah um it's very, what's the word? ah
00:18:40
Speaker
What are those? You know, those those children living books. There we go. It was very living book to me because you're on ah before you can advance. It's not open world, right? You are on a screen. You have to figure out the puzzles and you're just kind of prodding things and looking around. And that's and it's so illustrative. it Yeah. Reminded me of like a children's living book. ah Yeah, I think that's ah that's that's right. And the so the plot here is, as Julia said,
00:19:08
Speaker
There's a, you're, you're well, you're focused. Now I don't even know how to. We don't even know what this is. There's a cat. There's a frigging cat. His name is Milo and the little girl who owns the cat and which I guess we would have, was all stuff that happened in Milo and and the magpies. She gets a little bunny for Christmas. It's so cute. And the cat at first is pissed.
00:19:36
Speaker
But then like really quickly makes it. I thought that was what the game was going to be about. Like, oh, cats pissed a bunny. Yeah. And they have to like come to terms and like be friends or something. Right. But now they like they they become friends like immediately. Yeah. And the this this friggin little girl just immediately. She just opened her bunny.
00:20:00
Speaker
She just got it. She lets it run away like immediately. The door is open. Well, we don't know that she left the door open. It could have been her mom left the room and left the door open. We don't know.
00:20:11
Speaker
You're right. I want team little girl. I'm on team little girl. like ah Allegedly. yeah Someone left the door open. so Somebody left the door open and the bunny got out. And the cat's like, don't worry. I've got this. I got this. Don't. Yeah, I got this. It's fine. I just what I was looking at that door the whole time, you guys. I just knew I'm like, oh, my God, the door is open.
00:20:33
Speaker
Just the door's open, there's wild animals in here. Well, there is a bunny. The cat's maybe not a wild animal, but yeah, I was mad that the little girl didn't even notice. Yeah, you'd think she would be focused on the bunny. Yeah, I would be. Me too. She'd be a bunny. I'm pretty focused on the bunny. I'd be pissed if I was the parents, and I'm like, we just gave you a bunny, and you immediately lost interest in it.
00:21:01
Speaker
Well, and also the fact that she doesn't seem to appear in the rest of the game, like she's not looking for the bunny, so she just let it go out and she's like, well, I guess that's that. Yeah, well, guess the bunny's wild again. Whoever comes back comes back. I don't know. Literally went next door. The girl was like, ah, too hard. Too hard. I mean, it is snowing out. So, you know, it's it's winter. She don't want to go out in that.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I understand. It's probably cold enough out there to freeze your Winnebago. and Sorry, Muppets reference. So. That's not even accessible Muppets, Matt. that that That's Muppet for you and I only. ah Do you ever see ah Muppet Family Christmas, Julia? I have, but it was many years ago. It's the funniest it's the funniest Christmas special that exists. um So the bunny,
00:22:01
Speaker
flees into like a neighboring yard and the cat comes. And this is this is where I got confused immediately. Oh, boy. um Is a man lighting off fireworks in his own backyard? Also, why? What is wrong with this man? ah to Go on. He's not even doing it. Yeah, he's not doing it for the entertainment of anyone. He's alone.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah. How did you guys all deal with these puzzles? Like how did this ah poorly? don I was stumped immediately. You know, what's so funny is because the way the game looks, it looks like a children's book. So you feel like it would be easy. And then when it's not easy, you're like, am I, ah you know, not as so smart of a person and this, there's something wrong with me clearly.
00:22:45
Speaker
Well, the first, so the first puzzle, and we're just gonna spoil it, guys, because whatever, there's a bunch of um lights hanging off a tree, and they happen to be in numbered segments. Just like so between, like before they're interrupted by a branch, it's one segment is one, and one's two, and one's three, four, five. Because you just have to click them in order. But why? What's going on? Yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
i I hate, guys, I truly hate that puzzle. I truly hate it. I didn't like this the the other puzzle that was on the same screen. Because like I think I mentioned earlier, you are on single screens. And you progress the story by figuring out the puzzles within that screen.
00:23:33
Speaker
um i do i ah this is not This is not a roses game. this is not it It is about a cat. So you'd think it is. But the puzzles, I don't I don't like. I love how cute it is. Yeah. I love me some cats and I love me some bunnies and I kind of like the maybe you guys felt this way, too, that the whimsical kind of warm nature. ah mit Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
00:24:01
Speaker
um yeah Julie, you mentioned the um the the phone, I guess you'd call it a puzzle here. That's where I was suddenly starting to believe that I wasn't the cat. Because what would that guy think if this cat just darted out from the fence and just plugged his phone in?
00:24:24
Speaker
So yeah, that's kind of incredible. like it so yeah it was It was a cool like item combination. I wish there was kind of some more like item combination puzzles in the game. yeah yeah But yeah, like overall, I feel like, yeah, i mean I'm gonna come with roses that this this these types of puzzles are really not my cup of tea, but it's super charming. And it was a kind of a relaxed type of game. And because you were restricted to one you know screen at a time, you the the the confusion was somewhat minimized.
00:24:52
Speaker
Right. You could just kind of click around and stuff would happen. and And, you know, there were some hidden things that were kind of a little fun to discover. And I did have the walkthrough, so that was all good. It was fun to find the hidden stuff, too. Yeah, I think I'm going to go back with a walkthrough and find the other hidden stuff, because I only found like three, but.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, this is the, you know, this is only the second room of the game but yeah it kind of sets in real quick that you're going to have to use your different brain for this one. Yeah, yeah you're, you're, nothing really makes sense brain. Yeah, if a logical puzzle game that's odd, it there's a little bit of a disconnect.
00:25:29
Speaker
and of me I'm going to say, you say this is only the second screen, but there's three screens in the game. Yeah, there's not many screens. It's true. like i like We're almost done with the bomb here, right? like like you free The cat frees a bunny. The bunny accidentally gets locked in a shed.
00:25:50
Speaker
The cat frees the bunny. What are we free the bunny? Yeah, we got free the bunny. Us, comma, God. the No, God, the literal.
00:26:05
Speaker
um And then a man takes the bunny and you're like,
00:26:11
Speaker
I like, did you guys, what did you guys think when the man took the, well, okay, I guess before that you bunny and the cat have a real like choreographed dance through the snow. It's very titanic. It was my favorite part of the whole game, I have to tell you. Like it was so cute and magical and the music and the cues of the music and everything. I was like, oh, this is super nice. That was my absolute favorite part of the game, for sure.
00:26:40
Speaker
ah yeah james I like that also in this segment you play hide and seek. Yeah, so cute. It's so cute. With the bunny right before. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I like that a lot. um yeah I like and I like the animations of the I mean, there's very few animated things in this in this game. Like I said, it is it is kind of living bookie to me. But the the choreographed dance, as you say, I thought that is so cutely animated with the tumbling of the cat and the bunny. I'm like, ah, yeah, this is how I felt about Milo and the magpies is this guy's really good at animating a cat. Yeah.
00:27:18
Speaker
like when, besides when the cat is on two legs doing like a waltz. Besides that. Well, my cat does that all the time. Oh, okay. I guess, yeah, I haven't had a cat in a little while, so. Basket is a very good waltzer.
00:27:34
Speaker
um But besides that, like the cat is really like a kind of natural looking at all times. It is, yeah. So, okay, man takes the cat.
00:27:47
Speaker
And you're like, were you guys like, oh, he's returning the cat? Or were you guys like? You mean the bunny? The bunny, sorry, yeah. OK. Are you guys like, this motherfucker kidnapped our bunny? No, I was pissed. I'm like, I think we just lost.
00:28:02
Speaker
Game over. Game over. You got to go back and see. Maybe you forgot to forgot to pick up the pie. You you you put the wrong combination. like you could have you know There's multiple.
00:28:14
Speaker
solutions and the least correct or or the lesser correct one is going to give you the bad ending. I think his man kidnaps the bunny. Cat has to return home. Girl cries for five solid minutes and then the game's over. I guess at that point, but I didn't even really notice that that happened because like everything kind of was inexplicably happening that I'm like, okay, I'm just going to take this and just try it. We'll just follow the curve and just go snack.
00:28:40
Speaker
And the cat doesn't realize it, Milo doesn't realize it happened, so Milo keeps on looking. Yeah, he keeps looking, yeah. And that's when you end up at, this is a strange thing, you end up at a, like this was a location in the previous game, and so you end up at this frozen river, it wasn't frozen in the previous game, where people are escaping. Oh, I didn't even know it was a river, I thought it was like a street.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, this is- I'm a dumb. There's literally a fish in like a thing. Oh my god. There's ducks swimming in it. Okay, you know what? There's a bridge over it. Yeah, there's a bridge. This game was like way more trippy and psychedelic than it was nuts. I had a great time. I don't know what you guys were playing.
00:29:31
Speaker
and If it comes to the logic that's in the game, I could totally see you taking that in stride too, where, oh yeah, there's a duck swimming in the road. That's terrible. I was thinking, I don't know where my brain was at in brain fog. Well, so there's something, there is something weird though here that I didn't, and maybe it's a thing in certain other countries. I don't know. um There's a soup stand that is facing the river.
00:30:00
Speaker
Right, like there's a like ah there's a kitchen with a table and like ah like an awning and a sign and this girl is selling like vegetable soup to people who are skating by. You guys ever seen anything like that? I have never seen a soup stand, ever.
00:30:26
Speaker
out of the Chicago, so that's, the it it could be. um I assume it's like a holiday pop-up. Like, all right, the river's frozen, get the soup stand, pop-up out. Yeah. um And your customer base obviously sucks because at some point you ah you drop snow into the man's soup and he just chucks the soup just down on the ground and sleeps away, up and all.
00:30:58
Speaker
They have some real bad Yelp reviews on this poor little indie soup stand. This is another illogical logic puzzle, right? Yeah. but Yeah. I was so excited that I solved this one with the dials and everything. I always beside myself with joy. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:15
Speaker
It's, well, by that point, our brains have sort of adjusted to it, right? And you're just kind of like, okay, what? there It doesn't make sense, but what clues could be lurking anywhere? Really, it got worse for me, because I didn't even know I was on a river. So I just progressively got worse at this game. This game rotted your brain, little by little.
00:31:41
Speaker
um Yeah, it's just like the price of the soup corresponds with the temperature you set the... That doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense unless unless this is an economy. It's like every every degree that I turn up my cookware costs me one penny.
00:32:08
Speaker
So if you want soup that is cooked at 250 degrees, ah you are going to need to pay me $2.50. I mean, that also like, even though that's an illogical logic puzzle, it, at least like I knew to look for numbers and there's only so many numbers, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's three numbers and there's three numbers you need to find done.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah, so I just have I just want to say I had a visceral reaction. Again, I don't know. This got progressively worse for me. I don't know why. ah But on the last screen, ah you know, that's where everyone's reunited. This woman like.
00:32:52
Speaker
Okay, so you as Milo, you prod him to hide in a box, and he's hiding in this box of Christmas hats, and a woman finds him and brings him back. It's a box of Christmas hats? Yeah, that's why he's wearing a Christmas hat.
00:33:08
Speaker
Okay.
Eggnog and Holiday Traditions
00:33:09
Speaker
I didn't call that. Hello. Hello, Matt. Oh God. I'm the dumb one. So the swimmin brings back the box. Like she doesn't take the cat out. She just brings the whole box of somebody's Christmas hats and she puts it down and she says, I found your rabbit. I can't. Did she not look in the box? I'm so confused. Okay, so Miles got the hat on, so you can't see his ears. And if you see an animal... I don't know, I was just like, girl. And the only way you can tell the difference between people, this is something science has been grappling with for centuries.
00:33:52
Speaker
is that the only way you can tell the difference between a cat and a bunny is its ear. It's but like the length of its ears. And so you know in situations where you can't see the ears, yeah science just cannot figure it out. Additionally, she's been primed to know, I'm sure, that a rabbit is missing, not that Maya was missing. So she saw something furry in yeah and the box. She didn't think twice about it.
00:34:17
Speaker
No plot hole here. but wife said so mad meant two games I've spent two games with this cat. I think people are pretty used to Milo going missing. I think everybody in this town knows what it's like to find Milo in a box of hats.
00:34:36
Speaker
Maybe this time, you know, new bunny has gone missing. Oh, is Milo missing too? No, not this time. No, no, no, no. Priority is the new thing. Oh, no, you could find Milo in the box of hats. No, this is... Everybody knows it. Did you guys think it was like a little bit of a cop-out that we actually... This is a game, by the way, guys. This is an actual game we're clicking around and the object is to find this bunny and bring it back to the little girl.
00:35:05
Speaker
But we don't ever find the bunny. Somebody else off screen finds the bunny. I was so glad. This is the only puzzle we need to do. Yeah, we find the cat. We find the cat who isn't or who rather we drove to being lost. We made the cat be lost. But that's the only thing they need to do is find the bunny. And this game wouldn't they wouldn't give they would humor me. Let me find the bunny. Yeah. Did you feel unsatisfied by the ending then? I did. I did. Yeah.
00:35:35
Speaker
ah I was fine with the ending. It felt cozy Christmas-y, but I see what you're saying. Yeah, we didn't achieve anything. Yeah, and for what it is, it's good.
00:35:48
Speaker
The theme of, you know, everyone coming kind of coming together for the holidays, I feel like maybe you could kind of think about it that way where sometimes you have problems and then, you know, you have friends and family can help you with your problems. And I don't know. Oh, yeah. No, I think that's probably on some level what they were going for, right? Like the whole town is on this little girl's side.
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah, including the the woman with the box of hats who can't tell the difference between a cat and a mermaid. She did her best too. In a town like this, everybody needs to stick together because all none of them, and none of them are particularly competent. Well, the world is less chaotic, okay? I can't blame the people for not being competent if their world makes no logical sense. That's true.
00:36:35
Speaker
Little girl loses her rabbit out of her own front door the moment after she gets it. ah Woman doesn't know the difference between a rabbit and a cat. ah ah um Man sets the lock ah um on his shed by how many candles he can see at that moment.
00:36:57
Speaker
What happens if like his wife comes home with a new candle? Does he have to reset this lock every single time? He can never get into the shed again. Oh my god. He can never, for the rest of his life, is able to get in the shed. Did you guys see- World as hell. There was a cute thing on the um river scene in the art that I don't know if you guys picked up on. Do you guys see all the cats in the background? No. In the river scene?
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, scattered throughout the tree branches i did not know i are just a bunch of cats really cute silhouettes of cats. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah.
00:37:34
Speaker
Makes me wonder if there's more like that that i I didn't clock, but... Yeah, I think overall, the idea of coming out with kind of like a free holiday game is something they kind of used to do back in the day, like with DOS games and everything. They'd have food, yeah you know, and I think it's a really sweet little gift for people. And I really have a lot of warm feeling toward the developer for that reason, too.
00:37:54
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah, it almost made me when the first bit of the game, the very first chapter, you're not solving puzzles really, you're just clicking on the cat and the bunny back and forth and watching them do stuff. And at that point I started feeling like it was like one of those old Sierra Christmas cards where yeah yeah it's basically just almost like this just like interactive little Christmas card. Yeah, it's real sweet.
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah, and like I, you know, I joke and like, Oh, I found this unsatisfying at the end, which I did. I did find it unsatisfying, but at the same time, it's not. That's not the purpose of this game. The purpose of this game is the experience itself and feeling warm and cozy and just having a nice thing to look or look at and click around, you know? Yeah.
00:38:42
Speaker
So that's Milo and the Christmas gift. You guys can all go just get it on Steam for free. It's a gift. It's a Christmas gift. It's a Christmas gift for you. um So before ah before we get out of here, Julia,
00:38:57
Speaker
um Here's the thing we're talking to all our guests about today, um because it's a thing that's very near to me and Rose's hearts. Oh God, why? Oh no. I haven't been prepped on this. Okay, go on. Can I have $700? That's not what we talked about.
00:39:20
Speaker
How do you feel about eggnog? Are you an eggnog person? Oh, that's a really good question. It's real sweet. I find it, it's too sweet for me, but I'll have like a little bit, like a sip of it is nice, I find, but I could never drink like a whole thing of it, like a whole serving size. But yeah, how do y'all feel about the eggnog? My son used to say it was like a liquid cookie, which I think is true. Big fan, I'm a big fan of eggnog. Alcohol, no alcohol, usually no alcohol, but either one,
00:39:53
Speaker
Love it. I'm right now enjoying, as we speak, a original brand Pennsylvania Dutch eggnog made with real dairy cream, rum, brandy, and blended whiskey ahead. Just a tiny little dram. I like the flavor a lot of eggnog in the rumming and stuff. Me too. It's very nice. Yeah, are you a bigger fan of alcoholic or non-alcoholic?
00:40:20
Speaker
Probably the non-alcoholic, because I can't really drink like all that much alcohol. OK. But yeah, just like a little bit of rum in there is just real nice, I got to say. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely prefer non non-alcoholic, ah because i I know it's like so intensely sweet. I also cannot have a lot of it, but I'm like i'm like wild about it. I need to have it. There's something very nostalgic about it ah for me. We always had eggnog at Christmas.
00:40:47
Speaker
and like it i don't I don't know, if you like less sweet eggnog, then you should put alcohol in it. um But yeah, it gives it a weird sort of weird flavor to me. Do you guys sprinkle nutmeg on the k nog? Yeah, I do.
00:41:06
Speaker
Cinnamon nutmeg something, maybe, yeah. Yeah. yeah i Every year, I'm always looking to try new nogs. Do you guys have a favorite brand?
00:41:20
Speaker
Matt, you weirdo. Nobody has a favorite brand of eggnog. Well, there's one brand that comes out and then we just get that one. What's the brand? It's a Beatrice. They make like, you know, other milk and stuff. Beatrice. And that's all we get. It's just like the one thing we get in in the grocery store at that time of year. And you know what I... Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, that's all. That's all I got. Okay. I was going to say you reminded just at like talking about ah brands of eggnog. I can't name when I like the best.
00:41:47
Speaker
But I can name what I don't like. Is that is that acceptable? Go ahead. Yeah, it's even better. It's even better. I'll name my worst nog of all time after you. OK, it's actually Dean's Eggnog. And Dean's is a pretty big brand. I've never had Dean's. Yeah. What makes it bad? Yeah. It's a little watery to me. Yeah. so And I just you know, eggnog is meant to be a little more luscious and kind of decadent. And yeah. And Dean's is like a milk brand. So you would. I don't know. Maybe it's.
00:42:17
Speaker
Maybe it's me, I don't know, but i yeah, do not not a big fan of Dean's. So Wawa has an incredible nog. If you guys are ever in the Northeast, I guess ah ah whole it's all the the whole East Coast now, right, has Wawa's. Check out Wawa nog. Now the worst nog I've ever had is Bolt House Farms. Do you guys know Bolt House Farms? Oh yeah, they make the vegetable juices and stuff. Yeah, which generally pretty good.
00:42:47
Speaker
they They have a thing called holiday nog. um I described it last year, I have it written down here. Worst nog I've ever had, it's like water poured into pumpkin spice flavored milk. so It's horrible. it um It has the consistency of, and I'm sorry to anybody at home enjoying a nice nog right now, and they're gonna have to take a little break um after I say this, but it's the consistency of mucus. ah It's horrible.
00:43:15
Speaker
I hate it, I hate that. Do you have it? So, okay, and then before we let you before we let you go here, Julia, and thanks you so much for joining us and talking about this cool game. um what sort of Do you have any holiday traditions that are super important to you that you wanna share with people?
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, um well, there's a tradition of baking holiday cookies, which, you know, it's not unique or anything. But my mom makes the same cookies every year, the same kinds of cookies every year. And one of them is a thumbprint cookie. And there are thumbprint cookies in the Crimson Diamond.
00:43:49
Speaker
And that's a great puzzle too. Yeah. So that's why that's there. That's why I have those there because every, you know, every year for the, you know, as long as I've been alive, she's baked them and I, and I love having them and they're so holiday season for me. Um, so that that's one thing. And then I've been taken upon myself to make the, uh, the gingerbread cookie recipe. That's also from like an old vintage, you know, 1970s cookbook that my mom has had. And, uh, yes, my absolute favorite cookie. And I make those every year now. So those are, those are my nice holiday traditions.
00:44:19
Speaker
That's awesome. That's so good. Man, I gave i keep that Faro character so many thumbprint cookies, Julia. Because I was like, I got a little stuck and I just... I thought I could like make him sick or something. I was going to do that actually. I was you do i was going to do a Mr. Creosote death where he would explode.
00:44:38
Speaker
but i Is there an achievement for giving him enough ah mut bunchch of cook No i don't Trust me, I would have had it Yeah, i yeah oh um was yeah Missed opportunity You hear that Yeah, why are you banging on your desk, Matt? There's a knock at our Christmas cabin door. So I think another guest is trying to come in. Julia, we're going to have to say ah Merry Christmas to you and happy christmas every other holiday that happens around this time. There's a bunch of them. yeah And ah thank you for hanging out with us.
00:45:21
Speaker
Thank you so much for inviting me on. This was lovely. and Milo was wonderful. And yeah, happy holidays, Merry Christmas to you and roses. This is great times. Aw, thank you so much Julia. I guess I'll go answer the door. All right, we'll be right back.
00:45:39
Speaker
Wow, look at that. It's our good friend Alistair Beckett King. Alistair, why are you out there in the freezing cold? It's so cold out here, Roses and Matt. Why are you making me stand on your doorstep in the cold outside this real door?
00:45:56
Speaker
I mean, we are in Chicago, where it's very cold all the time. And we're in the west of Philadelphia, where it's very cold. Very cold, all the time. Very, very cold. I'm in London, which is also very cold. Damn. Can I come in?
00:46:12
Speaker
Sure, come on in, have a spot around the fireplace. Let's wait for Julia to jump out the window. Okay, she's gone, now you can go in. She could have used a door. Oh, that's fine. She didn't want to see us. No, I am in a little way.
00:46:30
Speaker
This is an adventure game. you need to but We need to move you out of the doorway. It's like a character standing there like, how can I open the door when there's a person standing in it? how can How can one person leave the door when another person's in it? Matt, if you could just offer him cider from your chair, you could lure him away from the door. OK, OK. as Sit, chair.
00:46:56
Speaker
offer cider. Alistair, would you like some nice Christmas cider? Yeah. Now, just to be clear, is that non-alcoholic in America cider?
00:47:07
Speaker
Cider is generally non-alcoholic. Yeah. Well, if you're talking about like... A little warning about England then, cause cider in England is an alcoholic drink. Generally, yeah. If you're talking about like a wintery drink, uh, in the US, you're talking about like a warm apple cider that is non-alcoholic. But if you're in a... That's why they're taking kids around the cider factory in the system. It's just... wouldn't be appropriate in the UK. Cause again, it's an alcoholic drink made from apples.
00:47:36
Speaker
I also have a wassail bowl here if you want some of that. I've just been throwing every liquid in the house into it. You don't want the wassail. Have you been wassailing? Is that singing going to happen? I wasn't warned about singing. The wassel pot is community pot and everyone's drank out of it. And this is why we're all sick. If you want to pour anything into the wassel bowl. It's actually unsanitary. If you have any liquids on you, you can- I'm just going to spray a few crisps or chips and jeezy coats in there. It's just good as a floating layer. There you go. We forgot to have Julia add anything to the wassel bowl.
00:48:14
Speaker
But I think she spit on in it anyway, because she was mad we didn't offer her any.
00:48:24
Speaker
That's actually how she always leaves a room. She spits and then she goes straight out the window. She's really nice, but she makes an exit. We've built such a rich tapestry of holiday fiction here. Alistair, how have you been, my friend?
00:48:43
Speaker
Very well. i It's lovely being here in your sort of soundstage built house with all fakes now and studio quality lighting. Transdimensional Christmas house. I've put my artwork everywhere. That's why it looks like a Christmas horror show. I like to make my guests comfy. how How is your Christmas season so far?
00:49:07
Speaker
It's not too bad. I've had a quiet Christmas. I haven't done that many gigs because I'm a standard comedian and normally Christmas gigs are awful. Normally you you gig to people who are having Christmas parties and they're just the worst audiences because they all know each other and they're all like, oh, you should, you should say something about bald Jeff. he That'd be hilarious. It wouldn't be because we don't know Jeff or care about him.
00:49:32
Speaker
We, the rest of the room isn't invested in Jeff's baldness, really, at all. Well, I'm pretty invested now. Now I'm curious. I've built a picture of him, you know, I've i've drawn a portrait of him using my words. and you in God, I fucking hate Jeff's baldness. I'm pretty mad at Jeff at this point. Gross hair, dude. I don't know if baldness is what really gets my goat.
00:49:57
Speaker
And we are, what we are, we're three people with beautiful hair on the in this in this transdimensional cabin. Mine is bleached to fucking back. Alistair, what did you think of my hair when I was in the cabin? I was surprised that it was light because I think the last video I'd seen, and it was dark. Alistair, that was like years ago.
00:50:17
Speaker
No way. Well, okay. but You don't always show your face in the recent ones that I definitely watch about. good blood yeah but did i did I watched Hot Frosty after you told me about it. You described the plot of Hot Frosty to me and then I went and watched it on YouTube and it was the same as you telling me. Yeah, it was the same. It was what I said. It was the same as what you said. You watch it. Did you follow me on Instagram? You could see my face on Instagram.
00:50:43
Speaker
This is so funny because what it is is it's like it's it's like a real holiday gathering where your family starts bickering out. I can't believe this. all right Well, ah we're so happy that you've joined us here. ah And we all together ah in in one in one big comfy chair sat and played um ah a game called Watch Over Christmas.
00:51:13
Speaker
This is your fault, Matt. How do you guys, just high level, how do you feel about Watch Over Christmas? Anxious. It makes me feel very anxious because I instantly took a dislike to this game, but also I made a sort of cartoonish point and click adventure game years ago.
00:51:34
Speaker
The way I react to this is the way people who don't like my game react to my game going like, oh, it's ah it's like cartoony and it's for kids and it's supposed to be funny, but it's not. um Brackets my game actually is funny, but your game is funny. Yes. I feel bad. Yeah. I feel too bad criticizing it. That said, I have got a word document open with a lot of criticism. Listen, I need to say something.
00:52:03
Speaker
You're allowed. Thank you. I was waiting for permission there because usually people would be like, no, no, shut up. Anything. first miss Okay. I went into this game disliking it. And then I was like, kind of, I kind of like it though, because it's got that grand adventure.
00:52:20
Speaker
i think I think I was really into the world that was illustrated in front of me. I liked that part of it. I liked that there were different cultures that were coming into it. And then I disliked it again for reasons. But at the end,
00:52:35
Speaker
I was at peace with it. I'm like, okay. At the end, no emotions at all. Perfectly neutral. This is how I felt. No, you you were describing my experience exactly because I started this game and so angry because, and I think it's literally, there's two things I think that really bugged me, like right off the bat. One is Siska's voice. Oh my God.
00:52:57
Speaker
It's bad. It is just... How can you... So, Cisco is a 12 or 13, it seems to vary, your old boy, but he also says that 42 is three times his age or something. I know. I did that math too. Which mathematically means you're not 12. But anyway. I only read about half his dialogue. He's got puffy orange hair and he's called Cisco, which is short for Francisco. And I think that is probably... I don't want to generalize, but I don't...
00:53:25
Speaker
think there are any other red-headed people called Francisco. It's not a name and a hair color that tend to go together. So he's a unique with ah the most annoying way of pronouncing the word Christmas I've ever had.
00:53:39
Speaker
oh mercy charisma this He also talks- Luckily he says it in every sentence. Thank God. Thank God for that. He talks like a 40 year old man sometimes too. Like just as yeah his wordage.
00:53:56
Speaker
I'm just like, is this a 12 year old or what is that? What is the dialogue? He's got that. He's got that like like grown person doing a kid's voice voice. Right. It's like this at all times. It's like a kid from an adult.
00:54:12
Speaker
yeah And you can tolerate that kind of acting for the length of an advert. I don't think the voice actor is bad, but it's really misjudged because he's so enthusiastic. so i have two things um I don't think that's what 12 year olds sound like. 12 is like a very specific age where kids do feel more adult. They don't typically carry him around a teddy bear. Yes, they start to be cynical and sarcastic. they yeah they're like He's written like a much younger child.
00:54:39
Speaker
I thought he was eight. I thought it was eight until I found out he was 12. He is cynical and sarcastic, but he still speaks in that way. He's like, he'll say something sarcastic, right? Like, oh, that was very helpful. And it's like, yes, that's sarcastic, but you're also saying it like you're very excited to be sarcastic. Yeah.
00:55:07
Speaker
And there's, yeah, talking about the, the way he's written, like a 40 year old guy, like there's a bit where he makes a reference to the dukes of hazard, which is a show I, a 40 year old guy have not seen yeah because it was on telly before I was aware of things. So it's like, well, so how does it, how does a 12 year old, it's, you know, okay, I guess it's, that's the writer talking directly through the child to the player. It's all set in the nineties.
00:55:35
Speaker
i don't because you know how okay so guys in this game you can collect presents I think I didn't I don't know if I collected all of them and I don't know really what oh I did I was so worried I wouldn't and i did you do get an en achievement yeah you get an achievement so it's a little collect-a-thon it's a little hidden object yeah find all the the gifts a lot of games have that mechanic the gifts are strange like the first gift I opened was a 90s game boy wait how do you open the gifts you just double click on him
00:56:06
Speaker
Matt. Wait, no, I clicked on the gifts and they just disappeared. And it was like gift found. No, mine opened. And I found a Game Boy and I found like a couple consoles and like. What? I know, it sounds like a dream. Once I dreamed that I got outside the court in Mario Kart on the Super Nintendo, I just kept riding. And to this day, you're still out there. I'm still out there somewhere. Still on Rainbow Road somewhere.
00:56:35
Speaker
and Okay, where so when you would find them on the screen, you would click them while on the screen. They're in your inventory. No, no, no, in your inventory, in your gift inventory. There's a gift inventory? Matt! All right, here's here's him loading up Watch Over Christmas while you guys talk about Watch Over Christmas. Like look at a play through and you'll see what I mean.
00:56:58
Speaker
um I'm gonna find one too, because now I feel like I'm losing my mind. i Now I believe you, now that you you've told me there's a gift inventory. like I'm not making up seeing like a Game Boy, and there's a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man plushie. There were all these weird gifts that don't apply to a Gen Z child, I don't think. You're right about the the Dukes of Hazzard. That one really threw me. because yeah like There was a lot of weird references in this game, but that one was like...
00:57:37
Speaker
I had to sit and I was like, there's no way he's talking about the Dukes of Hazzard right now. And it was completely out of, I couldn't even make it make sense in context. I couldn't be like, oh yeah, it makes sense to reference the Dukes of Hazzard right now. Yeah. Matt, do you wanna just really, really quick, what is the premise? What is the objective of this game? Sure, okay. So you're a little boy named Cisco, as we said, and you,
00:58:06
Speaker
you are visited by the Christmas spirit one night, I guess it's Christmas Eve, right? You're visited by the Christmas spirit and it inhabits your old, no, no, you have to do that later. Sorry, I'm mixing it up. Matt, the story is not this hard. This is going bad. This is going poorly. Oh my God.
00:58:28
Speaker
It's a bit like Nightmare Before Christmas because the realm of Santa like santa and other Santa-like creatures like Krampus and Labalfana, is that right? Labalfana, who's an Italian. ah Yeah, Italian folklore. Jack Frost. Yeah. What happened was Krampus kidnapped.
00:58:48
Speaker
Santa Claus and you, Sisko, have been tasked with rescuing him. Yeah, I don't know why. As we go through this game, there appears to be a lot more experienced people that could maybe do this. But apparently we learn like way at the end that only a child can save Christmas because in adults, the Christmas spirit is weak.
00:59:11
Speaker
It's only a child can save Santa. But it needs to be a kid who knows about the jukes of hazard and quite a lot of the 80s, 90s stuff as well. Who likes Gameboys and stay puffed, marshmallow men. Yeah.
00:59:22
Speaker
I sort of think everybody thinks that kids are easy to write, like kids' stories are easy to write, because kids are like, they love Christmas. And it's like, well, what's Francisco's personality? Who is he? What's his thing? And his thing is he's a kid who likes Christmas, which is everyone. And he's got an older teenage sister and she's cynical and likes bands. It's like, OK, so these are these are the most generic children you could come up with. And Francisco's outlook on life is to be like enthusiastic about things. And it's like there's there's no There's nothing there's no acting to do. There's no personality there. And I kind of think with this kind of point and click game, your enjoyment of it completely hangs on whether you like hanging around with the main character. Because this is this kind of the this kind of classic point and click, you're not really driving the story forwards. You're running a lot of errands for people. There's lots of side tracks that don't really feel like they're necessary. But if you enjoy hanging out with the main character, that's all fine.
01:00:18
Speaker
But if they're annoying, you you're in big trouble. That's what I struggled with, though, because like i I did find this character very annoying. But there are so many things. And and I think that's because it's very clearly derived from other classic adventure games. and i And I say that knowing this, because they put in references to other games. like You can find Manny Calavera's head, like an illustration of his head. You can find an illustration of Murray's head from Curse of Monkey Island.
01:00:50
Speaker
ah So there are parts of this game that take me into that nostalgic zone. And I actually, I didn't think I would like the illustrative style, but I actually do like it. I like it except for one thing. I don't like how the humans look. I only like the character design in in the places that you go. So in the enchanted forests and and in the villages and stuff.
01:01:15
Speaker
because they have cute eyes. And in the real world, they don't have cute eyes. And that's my hot take. Thank you for having me. I should say there's a and second artist, because um at the end of the game, there are some real shifts in the style of a background art, because there's a different artist doing them. And I think George Commiotis, who did the animation for the characters and the backgrounds, did the backgrounds at the end of the game. and because there's some really I think really, really good artwork toward the end of the game.
01:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's so i so I see it now that you're talking about it. One art style, it again has a very thick outline, I guess, cartooning then that there's another star that's more illustrative and more likely. There's a lot more Bill Tillerish where you don't have outlines and it's, you know, it's, that's some there's some very nicely drawn snow and some really sweet locations. So it's it's kind of a pity that some of the prettier stuff is, is very late in the game.
01:02:13
Speaker
Before we were doing this podcast, I'd started this game two ah two separate Christmases. Like, I want a Christmas game, I'm gonna try this. And just, I got maybe just to the first village, like ah out of, away from Siska's house and never picked it up again. And then like a year later, I was like, okay, yeah I'm gonna play that Christmas game that I played last year. And same thing, got about there and then it just got over one.
01:02:42
Speaker
As I was playing it this time, I kind of fought my way through because I knew we had to talk about it on the show. so But by the last, by like the the fifth chapter, I felt like the game started moving. Like I felt good better about it. Okay, but the game shouldn't start moving at the fifth chapter. No, I'm not saying, I'm not recommending it based on that.
01:03:02
Speaker
ah but Six chapters it is way longer than you think it's gonna be like I assumed when I started I was like Oh, this is sort of the gate at the sort of game you can knock out in two hours But no, this is like a what and six to eight hour game. Yeah, and most of that is Cisco saying charisma Well, I didn't notice this in playing how dialogue heavy it really is. There's a lot. Yeah. I think that accounts for a lot of the time. I have to be honest. I watched a playthrough rather than actually playing it. So I cheated. And even the playthrough I watched by the end, they were skipping through the dialogue and it's like, you've been here for six hours now. Stop. but Come on. don show the Show yourself some respect and don't just skip through the dialogue in the gra dramatic finale.
01:03:47
Speaker
I was talking to some people because I write a series of kids books and um there is an issue with sort of kids writing, which is that you write yourself as a child. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's it's not necessarily relevant to kids now. Like as so someone pointed out when when people our age write grandparents. We're writing them so old, but like children's grandparents are actually not that old. They're like 55 in some cases, and we're we're writing these with an old, terrible pensioners. with the
01:04:19
Speaker
You know, and it's like, well, they no that's our, gym obviously my grandparents are dead. Sorry to ruin Christmas, but you know, we ruined the holidays. It's hard to sort of inhabit a child. And, and so I don't want to criticize the game too harshly for not fail for failing to capture a child. I just don't think that Francisco has, I don't think that Cisco has a personality.
01:04:39
Speaker
really he doesn beyond being enthusiastic and I think that's what's missing and it doesn't seem to be told from a child's point of view really it's yeah it seems to be aimed at the well for instance really early on in the game his older sister tells him Santa Claus doesn't exist and's okay so this game is is not for any kids who are so young that they you wouldn't want to include that in the game right kind of who is it for because what who older than a child could put up with this constant Christmas enthusiasm So I mean, I thought I could, I love Christmas. I love adventure games. And I was just like, Oh, but like what Matt said, I had kind of a journey of liking it, like disliking it and then liking it again.
01:05:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I don't know. the The credits say that the game is for the people who never lost the like the child inside them or or whatever, or something like that. yeah Like the people who's, like the spirit of Christmas and wonder of being a child stayed with them forever, something something along those lines. So I think that's who they think it's for. It's for adults who feel childlike.
01:05:47
Speaker
but i I think it's for people our age, just with the LucasArts references in there. and Well, here's the thing I think. I think a lot of people that make adventure games, unfortunately, a lot especially a lot of these people who make point and click games using AGS, right? Like there's so many who are just fans of adventure games, and they have been their whole life, and they just wanna make one. But they're not really thinking about audience. They're just thinking about, I wanna make an adventure game, um and maybe what settings I've missed, what settings I haven't seen before, or, is you know,
01:06:26
Speaker
Or i want to I want another game like Lucas, something like that. Which I respect. The devs made a game that they clearly wanted to make. yeah Like we said, it's long. It's six to eight hours long. There's a lot of settings. Honestly, I dare say it's got better structure and better I don't know, overall quality than a lot of adventure games I've played. It's just- How are the puzzles? Because watching it in a playthrough, I cheated. Because there's quite a few full screen puzzles, which is the one thing that differentiated it from a classic LucasArts game for me. And I thought, oh, is there a bit, is there an element of sort of casual or, you know, the room kind of gaming here? You're making noises.
01:07:11
Speaker
This game does look like a lot of adventure games do where it has that classic errand type of a thing where you need to use inventory objects and so and you actually have a pretty big inventory. This would be a pretty good for how much to my pants way. I found that I was carrying a lot of stuff, but.
01:07:29
Speaker
Like a lot of adventure games, every now and then we get a slider puzzle or like a pipe puzzle where you need to change where the water goes. And those, as everybody knows, I hate those. i They're not my favorite at all. So, yeah, I think um it is. that i think If there's a lot of the inventory puzzles that are that feel more like fetch quests than actual puzzles, it is like somebody wants you to go somewhere and get something and then come back.
01:07:57
Speaker
And I think there's a lot of the puzzles that, some puzzles are just solved through dialogue, right? You approach a challenge and you're like, okay, they're gonna make me go do something to solve this. You can annoy somebody into submission. Yeah, yeah, and there's a lot of situations where you just talk to them and keep talking to them and then they say, all right, fine, here's the thing you've needed this whole time. So the puzzles aren't, none of the puzzles are hard.
01:08:24
Speaker
They make sense too. I think they are pretty logical. I think so too. I got a little stuck when I first got to the village. I forget what the actual puzzle was, but there's something early on in the village I got stuck by. But most of the game, so I could sort of breeze past,
01:08:46
Speaker
without without walkthroughs or much thought. But yeah, you're right, Alistair, there are a lot of full-on logic puzzles um and a lot of the cliche ones, right? like There's a puzzle where you have to put the cogs in the right place to make the thing move. The clock tower, yeah. Yeah, yeah there's one point where you have to ah craft a symbol out of like a penta, what do you call those?
01:09:13
Speaker
those where you have a bunch of shapes and you have to make you have to put them together to make a have other shapes. I have no idea. but I'm sure that does have a name, and I don't know what it is. pent I keep wanting to say pentagram, but that's a very specific name. Not a pentagram. That is a specific like shape, yeah. um so I think the puzzles the puzzles are okay. i think Again, what you said, Alistair, if you like the main character, I think this game, there's a lot to like here. There's also a lot of oil in this game. Sorry, I was about to say, you give a guy diarrhea, but there's a lot of oil. Early on in the game, there's baby oil and they make a sex joke about it. He's like, he asks his dad, why is there baby oil in the bathroom? And the dad's like, oh, don't worry about it. um even though that But that is where you would keep baby oil, isn't it? Exactly. yeahnu So it's not like,
01:10:02
Speaker
It's not, it' it doesn't imply extra sexiness that it's in the bathroom. That's the place it's kept. This is where you could keep it. Yeah, I absolutely agree. Well, you're gonna keep it and under the kitchen sink with the bleach. Based on the dad's reaction, it was very much like, and it's like, no, there's just baby oil in the bathroom. That's what, but yeah, there's baby oil. There's, you have to make fish oil. You have to acquire cooking oil. You get castor oil. Every type of oil is in this game. What's going on?
01:10:33
Speaker
Sorry, the spirit of Christmas is, don't you know anything about Christmas, Matt? It's a time for oils of all kinds. It's time for oil, yeah. I'll go pour a bunch of oils in the wassel ball. Deck all with several oils.
01:10:50
Speaker
i much yes There's a joke that I actually thought was pretty funny, which is at some point you go into like a dungeon and there's a guy doing that old ah playing with that toy where you try you're trying to catch a ball on the end of a stick that's like tied to it with a rope. He calls it a skill toy. Again, he talks like a fucking 40 year old. That's a nice oh yeah skill toy. you Hey, I like your skill toy. And the guy says, this isn't a skill toy. This is a weapon. This is my weapon. It's just like, yeah, it's like a little, ah I don't know, like hammer ah with um ah a little red ball hanging off of it. But then later you get captured by guards.
01:11:31
Speaker
one of them hits you with one of those things like just has one and i was like that is a pretty good joke dude it's got whimsy to it for sure it's it's got a charm that that it just kind of comes and goes the charm comes and goes which is a little strange to say But yeah, there it does. There's another point in this game where this was the weirdest part of the game to me, where you you know you have to get elf tears. Yeah. um For some magical recipe, right? Yeah. And you find pepper spray. It's right after ah you give the guard playing with the toy diarrhea by forcing him to drink castor oil. And then later you tie a rope to his leg and have a goat run away. Also tied to it. Yeah, you're destroying this man. So you have pepper spray, and you have to get elf tears, and you're walking around two elf villages. And I was just like, this can't be it, right? And I was just walking up to every elf using pepper spray on elf. Oh my god. You weren't allowed. At no point were you allowed. The solution to the puzzle is you find one elf that's sick, and you find a handkerchief. You put the pepper spray on the handkerchief, and you give it to the elf.
01:12:46
Speaker
What, you still pepper? You do pepper spray an elf there. Yeah, you do pepper spray an elf. He walks around, Siska walks around saying like, I couldn't do that. To pepper spray an elf. You had a handkerchief. Then he, instead he makes somebody a huff. Pepper spray. I guess what he meant was some of the spray might get into the tears if you sprayed it directly onto their face yeah while in the recipe. So you just need them to get the fumes.
01:13:13
Speaker
If he had said that, then I would have solved the puzzle. That was what I had to look at the walkthrough for. Like, ah if he had said... And that would have also been hilarious and revealing about Sisko's character if he had said... in into cis god's real character He's an absolute sadist. There's something also about this game that reminded me, I don't know if you guys got this, ah I got like got a real Toonstruck vibe at certain points. I did too. Absolutely. I was thinking that as well, especially with the aforementioned guards that I mentioned. Yeah, definitely got Toonstruck vibes. As soon as I saw Krampus' lair, it reminded me of
01:13:56
Speaker
I can't remember, is it? I can't remember. Is it Nefarious? Nefarious? Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious. Nefarious.
01:14:12
Speaker
um it would have been a watch for christmas would have been a much better game and Nefarious. Nefarious.
Critiques and Humorous Game Reviews
01:14:25
Speaker
Nefarious.
01:14:27
Speaker
look but god i explain that baby oil Give me a go on that skill toy
01:14:38
Speaker
Okay, but I want to mention one of the very last lines in this game that like took me out of the whole thing. It made me viscerally angry. So on one of the last lines when so, as we said, you have the Christmas spirit, which is inhabiting your teddy bear with you the whole time he's in your inventory the whole time, but he can't stay forever. So You know, as soon as you complete the task of of saving Santa and I think killing Krampus or imprisoning, at least imprisoning him. I think you're imprisoning him. I think he's alive. it's snow globe He's
01:15:12
Speaker
he looks small If Coraline taught me anything. Yeah. He's alive, but very small. So at the end, the Christmas spirit's like, I got to go. I don't want to. And he like, you know, they say their goodbyes. And then he says, quote, life is an adventurous journey or nothing at all. Yeah. Yeah. I assumed in grief that sounded better and less depressing.
01:15:37
Speaker
I'm just like, so you're either on a grand adventure or it's fucking nothing? Or you're dead. Or you're a dead person. Yeah. Like there's no in between. What a weird way to end like a very whimsical, like, you know, holiday games. I was like, life life is an adventure or nothing. Yeah, it's also like, I've been spending six hours sitting at my computer playing a video game. I guess life is nothing at all for me. Life is nothing. Real zinger for us now.
01:16:06
Speaker
I guess that's why the person on the playthrough I watched started clicking through it frantically. No, like better. I must live. I must finish no commentary playthrough. I'm so mad.
01:16:21
Speaker
I like the way when you confront Krampus at the end, he's monologuing. And then Francisco says, you talk too much. And he said, you've got some nerve, boy. And I was like, good one, Krampus, because this kid talks a lot.
01:16:37
Speaker
That's so funny, because that is one of those just like cliche lines that they don't even you don't even think about when you put in a villain's mouth. But yeah, that is exactly a great comeback to this specific boy. Yeah, you really zinged this little 12-year-old.
01:16:54
Speaker
he's going to sit He's gonna sit the rest of that night and be like, dude, I do talk too much, don't I? Oh my God, I do talk too much. Oh my God. Do my parents love me? Yeah, it gets very dark at the end. but In a way, it did inspire the spirit of Christmas. In a way, it did fill me with the spirit of Christmas because every time he says, Christmas, I said, oh, Jesus Christ, which is the true meaning of Christmas. True meaning of the spirit. That is true, wow. Thank you, Sisko.
01:17:22
Speaker
Yeah, Cisco believes to keep the Christ in Christmas. He's annoying Jesus back into Christmas. So just a couple little notes that I wanted to, because it seems, feels like we're wrapping up here. Yes, we gotta wrap. There are some very, my favorite puzzle of the game was there is a puzzle where you have to collect a bunch of roots and then go to like a sciencey table. I knew you would love that puzzle. Like a botany table and you like have to discover the different traits of each root and then rule out which ones it is not. I like that puzzle a lot. Yeah, yeah.
01:17:59
Speaker
ah There's also a thing that I absolutely hate. in And I don't know, I think it's just a ah limitation of the engine. So I don't think there's anything people could do to solve it, but therere it's this thing that's ah where if you go to talk to a character and they haven't done their animation loop yet,
01:18:22
Speaker
you have to sit there and wait for their entire animation loop to pass by oh no before the dialogue starts. So there's there's certain ones where there's like a ah there's like a bartender that he'll like pick up a glass and he'll like grab a rag and he'll wash it and he'll look at the glass and wash it again and he'll put it down.
01:18:44
Speaker
And if you talk to him at the wrong time, and you have to sit and wait, not only for him to do that whole animation, but sometimes he's not ready. So you have to sit and have him like, wait, he'll just like sit there for a a few seconds, then pick up the glass and you're like, oh my God.
01:19:02
Speaker
no Is it a visionary game? I think it's made in visionary, is that right? I don't know. French or German? um I think it is, because a lot of the high res sort of quite illustrated point and clicks of this age were visionary games, I think. And then the very last thing, the game ends with a... So even if you're enjoying the game, like if you're like we're saying all the puzzles are pretty logical and ah it's very... The game ends with two of the worst
01:19:34
Speaker
puzzles ever One is you have to send smoke signals to, ah you have to like decode something, which is kind of cool. But then if you get any of the smoke signals wrong, it takes like ah literally like five minutes to go through the sequence and have him say, oh, I guess I got it wrong. And then you try again. That was awful. But then the absolute last puzzle of the game is just rock, paper, scissors. Yep, it's rock, paper, scissors. Totally up to chance. Yeah. you could, you could be doing it for an hour. I think I did that for like eight minutes. Like I was just like, because it's like, Oh, I lost a round. All right. I'll try again up. I went around just the whole time. Oh yeah. The ice pick or something. The ice shard. Yeah. I just kept using it.
01:20:22
Speaker
Yeah, because, oh, right, because if it's got bad AI, it's just gonna cycle through, and you will win more often than you want. Yeah, and I won. I did it. I beat Krampus. Rock, paper, scissors, go me. I was looking for a pattern, because it was taking me so long, and I was like, there's gotta be some, and it's not, it's just completely random. There's not. Yeah, there's no pattern. Well, so that's Watch Over Christmas. What's everybody's rating out of? Out of Santa to Claus?
01:20:55
Speaker
Is this imperial or metric? I don't know. What do they use in Greece? My rating is one half full glass of milk.
01:21:09
Speaker
Yeah. ah What is the upper limit? Is that half of a glass out of one glass or half of a glass out of five glasses? It's like average half glass average five out five out of ten.
01:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, mine is probably a half half empty glass of milk because I don't want to condemn it. Right. And I do, I see myself in the developers, um but also really hate this kid. and i Mine would be one of those Christmas, my rating is one of those Christmas crackers that has the little, uh, the bowling ball, the like little plastic bowling balls and bowling pins in it. Cause those are the most fun ones to get.
01:21:49
Speaker
it's like it's like it's ah like It's still junk, it's still gonna go in the garbage, but it's like, okay, that was all right. That's fair. um So, Alistair, we've been talking to everybody today, or were I guess you're only the second person we've talked to in this cabin. I don't know, we're recording these out of order. ah But. It's very hard to tell how many people have been in the cabin at this point from the Yeah, yeah. There's a broken window, I know that much. There's a broken window. There's a lot of weird shit in the sale bowl. Yeah, stick there.
01:22:26
Speaker
Are you an eggnog fan, Alistair? Well, I'm a vegan and i don't I didn't really, I've never had it. I looked it up when you mentioned it to me before we spoke. And I've got to say, it looks disgusting. You're all just drinking raw eggs, are you?
01:22:44
Speaker
Merry Christmas. I feel weird. you can't So I have had vegan eggnog, uh, And it's just like, it's just like drinking a liquid sugar cookie. But yeah, the vegan stuff is a little, like I would not recommend vegan stuff. You need the egg. The egg is the good bit. It's just custard is all it is. It's just milky custard. So what are some of your Christmas, are you a big Christmas fan?
01:23:25
Speaker
I love Christmas. Yeah. I hope I didn't sound like a cynic. Lots of good Christmas traditions. My recent Christmas tradition is watching one of the Thin Man films.
01:23:39
Speaker
which are film noir comedy screwball comedies from the 30s. There's about nine of them. And so the first one is set on Christmas Eve. And the second one is set on New Year the next ah couple of days later on on New Year's Eve. um And that's as far as I'm up to in nice in those films. So I'm watching I'm working my way through the series Christmas by Christmas.
01:24:03
Speaker
nice and they're very very funny do you have any um like uh christmas like ah foods or desserts that that really are special since eggnog is off the table vegan christmas is not that hearty it's hard to sometimes i make a vegan haggis which is just friends and spices again the key element is missing in in all of these things yeah um What else? I've done vegan mince pies before, but but yeah which ah I don't know if you know, so mincemeat is like a sweet kind of preserve. It's like raisins, right? so Yeah, it's like raisins and other things, so it's very yeah sweet, but it's like Victorian times sweet.
01:24:47
Speaker
I had never had mincemeat before and I just, for the very first time, because I've been reading this book about the origins of American Christmas and to spoiler alert, all of them are fake. oh Everything about it. Even the stuff that has traditional European roots.
01:25:05
Speaker
did not come ah via like folkways. They came from some rich dudes in New York reading about them and being like, hey, this is better than people getting drunk on the streets. Let's try to bring this here. And then pretending that they were traditional. Anyway, um so I, they but they've talked about mints so much that I was like, all right, I gotta try this shit. And so I made,
01:25:31
Speaker
mince pies for the first time. Wow. Just this weekend. It was pretty good. They're lovely. I mean, they're an acquired taste, because they're quite rich, and they're slightly alcoholic, and it's all sort of, suet is in there, which makes it trickier for vegans. Yeah, I didn't do that. Yeah, I left the suet out. Yeah. Oh, you can't have it without the suet. And I heard, like, I'm a vegetarian, right? So I heard you can throw meat in there, too. I think people always say, you know, they used to have meat in the old days, but I've never known anybody to actually have meat in their mincemeat.
01:26:06
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so I, it's, it's good. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of flavor. It's like, cause it's like dried fruit and nuts and rum and a lot of citrus and butter. Like it's so much stuff. You have to imagine the cold winters of Victorian England. And it's like, this is you all the enjoyment you're getting for the entire year. So we're going to cram a lot of dense flavor into a single current.
01:26:35
Speaker
which whatever ah yeah Like, also the enthusiasm people in the old days had for currants and dried fruits and nuts, which now are like a punishment for a child. But in those days, they looked at normal fruit and thought that it's just too moist, dried out. Now it's a party. And whatever you don't eat of the mint, you just throw in the sale bowl. Yeah, just throw in the waffle bowl.
01:27:01
Speaker
um Well, so thank you so much for stopping by our our Christmas celebration, Alistair. Is there anything that you want to want to promote or anything that you you have coming up that people should know about? No, no. I mean, if you're into folklore and traditions, I do a poet, again, if you don't mind editing.
01:27:21
Speaker
If you're into folklore and traditions, I do a podcast called Lawmen with James Shankshaft, where we talk about the traditions of the British Isles. and so Yeah, I can't believe you haven't had me on your podcast. Extremely rude. Extremely rude that we haven't had you on. We talked about this last time. Talking about Chicago law.
01:27:37
Speaker
yeah yeah because yeah You're an academic on the law, yeah. It's not actually a windy city. The name, it's just a name. Yeah, I just taught you that. Incredible. Yeah, it's a great, it's a it's it's actually, it's a really great podcast. I really enjoy it. It's, you guys, great lore, like, which is such a funny, like, there's, ah do you have Christmas lore episodes?
01:28:06
Speaker
Yes. So a long time ago, probably during one of the first lockdowns, we did a live stream Christmas episode where James told a story about a pig that that turned out to be way more about a pig than it was about um Jesus. He got to the pig via Jesus to make it through Christmasy and then just told the story about a pig. And at the end of the episode, I was like, James, that was mostly about a pig. And so almost to really sort of hammer that joke into the ground,
01:28:35
Speaker
Since then, we we do Christmas pig episodes every year. We tell pig related, hopefully festive stories. And let me tell you, there are not that many of them. We are really, really running out of Christmas pigs. That's so good. Uh, yeah, guys, yeah everybody check it out. Um, I, I will definitely be listening to your Christmas pig episodes in the coming days. But yeah, thank you for, oh.
01:29:03
Speaker
Oh my, is that a wrapping on our cabin door? It looks like somebody's wrapping on our, actually, uh, we already used the door. So it's somebody wrapping on our, uh, somebody the our Christmas cabin. I guess I'll go answer it if, uh, if you want to say goodbye to our guest roses. Uh, Aleister, if you could please leave via the window, that'd be great. Oh, the window as well. All right. Bye.
01:29:32
Speaker
but
01:29:47
Speaker
Matt, for the love of God, go answer the basement door. That is definitely a real thing. I wanted to listen to the interstitial music. It's getting louder. Alright, alright, I'll go answer the door. Hello?
01:30:01
Speaker
oh Oh Thank you finally for letting me out I've been down there for Oh my god, it's ah it's I've been down there since since forever I've been locked down there with reindeer and like Santa and so look i don't know What kind of i know what kind of a cabin are you have are you running here we I'm sorry that we had to reschedule. I know you got here on time. what And I told you to hide in the basement. Oh yeah, is that what happened? Oh, I think I drank too much eggnog and now I've just lost all sense. You drank all our eggnog? Shit, you didn't drink from the Waseo ball, did you? Uh, maybe.
01:30:45
Speaker
Oh, I put some packing peanuts in there yesterday. Yeah, if you have anything from the basement that you want to add, everybody's been adding to the wassail bowl. Oh, ah sure. I've got some pine nuts and sawdust. Mostly people have been adding solids to the wassail bowl and it's really become a bad drink. Isn't this an adventure game podcast? Aren't we not now creating the ultimate inventory item by combining all of these things into your wassail?
01:31:15
Speaker
Bowl, whatever it is. it's like um It's like when you play, ah what's that game where you type the words in and they just like happen to have every object possible? Oh, yeah. That's the kids game. Yeah, for the day, for the DS, Scribblenauts. Yeah, Scribblenauts. It's like Scribblenauts when you type in just like flying, ah you know, flying invincible superhero lawyer or whatever and can solve every puzzle.
01:31:43
Speaker
Well, that is this wassail bowl. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to like come up out of the the floor? Oh, yeah. Come on. Come up out of the basement. Oh, my back. Oh, yes. Okay. Oh, here I am. Hello. We've just been sitting here, ah me and my sexy red vinyl sand costume. Oh, goodness. And Matt in his ugly sweater. Had just settled in for a long winter's nap. Where did you get where did you get that outfit?
01:32:10
Speaker
way Anyway, welcome to our Coast Cabin. Would you like a cider? A warm cider. Matt, bring this man. You got any hot butter rum while we're at it? I'll check the Christmas cabinet. okay Everybody, this is Francisco Gonzalez. If you didn't you didn't know already,
01:32:34
Speaker
ah Francisco, thanks for coming and spending this little Christmas time with us. Oh, thank you for having me. It's ah it's my pleasure. how How have you been enjoying your holidays so far? Well, I have been in a basement.
01:32:50
Speaker
but working hard on my on my game called Rosewater, which was supposed to be out in 2024, but ah you know things happen and now it will be out in 2025. Give us an exclusive. What month and day specifically? i can't tell you that I can't tell you that, but I will tell you that I will be releasing, I will may be making a major announcement in January with regards to more specific dates about when it will come out. So... Holy shit. There you go. Okay, yes, that's all well and good, but why am I not in your game?
01:33:29
Speaker
What do you mean? Okay, Rose has been assaulting everybody who comes in this cabin and demanding that she be part of their projects. Oh, do she ask you want like a- She has to be on a costar's podcast. Oh, I see. Do you want to like appear as a background extra in a scene that I'm doing right now? Yes. Okay. All right. I don't want it to be a background extra. All right, you can be too. Wow. Gee, see how easy it is.
01:33:59
Speaker
This is how you get things done, Matt. You just harass people. You just bring people to your trans-dimensional Christmas cabin, and then you force them to let you into their projects by locking them in the basement for several several days. yeah I mean, speaking
Dark Themes and Narrative Criticism
01:34:14
Speaker
of games and Christmas games, we were just going to, we were about to have a a riveting conversation about last Christmas, um not the George Michael song, definitely a bop, but the game, yeah.
01:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, so we all all three played ah played the game last Christmas by Polly Telly Games. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got some thoughts. Which is a cute little um cute up to a point.
01:34:43
Speaker
It's cute little AGS adventure, right? Like this was made in AGS, it seems. Was it? I don't know. Actually, I don't know. It may have been. I said that about the last game and we learned it was not the case. It's got that sort of vibe. Okay, so this game is interesting because apparently it started off as a game jam game, right? Because there's two versions of it. There's two versions of it with different art. Same voice acting, which I thought was interesting.
01:35:11
Speaker
But there's ah there's like ah ah an upgraded version and on Steam. Yeah. um That's what I played. And I'll say that voice acting is like pretty good. I mean, there's only one voice in the game. I agree. i I thought the voice acting was the best part of the game. Yeah, I liked it. I liked it a lot. What this voice actor does that, man, was not present in Watch Over Christmas.
01:35:37
Speaker
um and I think a lot of voice actors, especially non-professional voice actors, fail to do is he was subtle. He just yeah spoke like his normal voice. And yeah that goes such a long way in yeah creating a character that's believable and and a character you can stand.
01:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, i mean i think I like the art too. I thought the art was clean. Everything was very clean. Like the voice acting was very clean. The art looked very clean to me. It was it had a polish to it that I appreciated. I ah thought it was a nice short little adventure that was about Christmas and other things. So to to give, yeah, to let's give some background for ah listeners. um you are just like a man who's dressed in a Marty McFly outfit. yeah yeah You up to your girlfriend's Christmas cabin and you're getting things ready for like ah ah romantic a Christmas Eve night with her um and you have to, you have like a little to-do list and you gotta get a tree and decorate it and you've gotta set up like a a little Christmas table. like dinner
01:36:50
Speaker
Yeah, you don't actually make the food you make a you make mulled wine, I believe yeah yeah yeah yeah side or wine yeah yeah And you also have to set up a sexy bed to retire too early and a a bubble but a romantic bubble bath You should probably mention that this is a period piece because it takes place on Christmas 1989 I believe or is it 1988?
01:37:17
Speaker
Oh, I think I might have missed that. Oh, no, it's very important. Yeah, I just assumed it was. Yeah, yeah. I assumed it was just for the last Christmas ah Wham cassette tape. Right. no Well, I mean, the whole thing is that it takes place 1988 and then There's you find out at the end that last Christmas was Christmas 1987 and well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yeah, so I guess what happens throughout the game is yeah, it's a lot of inventory puzzles.
01:37:55
Speaker
you're sort of wandering around these, there's very few, and like there's very few screens, and there's one that you don't do anything in, right? Like the backyard you don't do anything in? You don't do anything, that's correct, yeah. So strange. But it's it's just like the rooms of a house, and you have to come up with, you know, fucking point and click ass ways to make all these things happen, because you don't have a Christmas tree, you don't have Christmas decorations, you don't have fucking anything, right? Yeah. Yeah, in classic point and click character fashion, it's just substituting everything with passable substitutes. Yeah. Which oftentimes is like, yeah, pretty fine. Like you you substitute a tablecloth with a bed sheet and a bed sheet with a curtain, but... Well. Yeah.
01:38:48
Speaker
I just thought of something really horrible. And I mean, and please forgive me for saying this. Okay. The guy is the guy puts all this stuff together. And then he's like,
01:39:00
Speaker
Wow, I did such a bad job. I'm gonna fucking kill myself.
01:39:10
Speaker
Which is not funny at all. Why would that but why would I make such a joke? Oh, wait a minute! It's because that's actually what happens in this game, except not for that reason.
01:39:21
Speaker
Yeah, not for that reason. As you are going through doing this stuff, you just keep getting these flashes. And it seems like a sweet game. It's a little creepy, as in there's like kind of like discordant versions of Christmas songs happening. But as you're going through, you just get these flashes of dead people.
01:39:44
Speaker
I guess most of them are you, but not all of them, right? No, they're all you. are you yeah all of them are you oh No, see, because because one thing that I thought was a little cheap and and i don't want I don't want to dunk on this game too much because like I said, there's plenty of nice things. i yeah It's hard to talk about this game without talking about like the giant elephant elephant in the room which is the subject matter of like the big twist. I get that. Yes. But also another thing that I thought was a little chief was that like in the Steam page description it says there's four different endings and yeah I guess technically there's four different endings but the four different endings are literally just pick which one of the four ways the guy
01:40:29
Speaker
offs himself to see and it's that's that's not really a different ending you can pick yeah it depends on which of because at the end after everything goes crazy like it shifts into this sort of like alternate thing where it's like oh what's going on the cabins empty And each room has a light that flashes. And then like when you click on it, it says, go into the light. And then you get like the scene of that. Oh, I i didn't know there was one of those in every room. there's Well, not I mean, there's one of them in the four rooms where you can see the scene. So like you can pick which one of those four you want to end the game on. Strange. OK. That's such a strange thing. And and I don't want to.
01:41:14
Speaker
I'm not going to dunk on this game, yeah but I do have criticisms of it. yeah So I guess we should we should probably, before getting into that, like explain, because I think we've kind of danced around it. We should just like flat out say it. like The twist of this game is the fact that the guy preparing all of this stuff Is i guess he's a ghost and he's kind of remembering his last christmas because it's a year later and like the cabin is abandoned and he's doing this. So the big twist at the end is the like once he puts it all together like i said like everything gets shifts into this alternate dimension kind of thing or reality is like oh where is everybody.
01:41:50
Speaker
And then you go into the light and then it's revealed that he killed himself. And you see his suicide note and his suicide note is like, oh, dear, I couldn't stand being all these months apart from you. So I've decided to take my life in the place that you'll be guaranteed to find me.
01:42:07
Speaker
which really discussed it yeah that's a hidden that because that's horrible but yeah disgusting yeah yeah that made me very upset because because this game is it does have this twist where this guy you know committed suicide I wanted, as I was playing, I'm like, Oh, this is interesting. it It almost feels like, you know, you're going into this cabin. And let's, let's just say that it's representing the suicidal person, somebody who is ideating, right?
01:42:38
Speaker
It's putting you in a cabin where something's amiss, but you're kind of ignoring it, which I'm kind of, you know, that's the symbolism of of depression. It doesn't look okay, but you're making it look okay. And now you're seeing all of these death scenes, and you have to see them to finish the game. You can choose which one to quote, end him on, but you do have to go through the motions of this game.
01:43:02
Speaker
And I thought, well, that's kind of clever and kind of symbolic because that is what ideation is like. you You think about every way that you can end yourself. And so I didn't think the twist was gonna be, he's just simply a ghost who was also a dick. It got really very dark at the end and I don't think they should have took it that way. I think yeah i liked it to a point where I'm like, this is what ideation feels like. I can see this being significant.
01:43:31
Speaker
And then I was like, Oh, the twist is interesting too, except they unfortunately made the character very unsympathetic by having what I think is a very unrealistic suicide note. I don't I don't like that, you know, as an advocate myself as a survivor, if you've ever read any suicide notes, they're all full of lamenting and saying sorry and don't worry about you know it that that's not really what that is so I really wanted I guess I wanted this game to mean more than it did because the the subject matter is so is so sensitive so they just took it in a very dark way you know they made that they made this character
01:44:12
Speaker
very unsympathetic and unlikable, because he but but essentially took his life to get back at someone, which is horrible, obviously. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I also had a lot of issue with the note.
01:44:28
Speaker
Not looking at it through that lens, which you know i I don't have any experience with that, so i you know I can't speak to that. But just from like a narrative sense, there's no real explanation about why he's doing it and yeah it just kind of it's like I haven't been with you for a few months okay so does that mean that you've been kept apart for some reason beyond your control is it that she's been ignoring you and you feel that you have to do this is it because you know circumstance like or like it's not really made clear why they haven't been together
01:45:09
Speaker
And I get the impression that he is a jilted lover because he was like, I'm going to I'm going to take my life where you are going to find me. Right. Right. That's what I got. Yeah. That's the thing. Right. Like, it's just yeah, it just and that part, too, is just this is a story. I know it's meant to be dark, but I don't say it bothers me when there are. Yeah.
01:45:32
Speaker
these stigmatized representations of of a suicidal person. And like I said, it's it's it's not it's not that I'm offended. it's just ah I don't even know. It's just very dark it's a very dark place yeah to bring it, right? and then You're absolutely right, yeah.
01:45:47
Speaker
It kind of throws all that out the window with like the literal Columbo epilogue. That's a way, so before we get to this epilogue, like I do want to talk about some of the puzzles that we saw. Sure, sure, sure. Because there's some fucking wild ones. like and you're supposed to, you're making mulled wine and you don't have any, and like this is, so I have a friend who played this game too and she had, like she was not surprised by the suicide at the end because she was like, the whole game was creepy. I was like, what do you mean? And she was like,
01:46:21
Speaker
Well, yeah you're poisoning people because you need, for mulled wine, you need spice, you need wine, you need citrus, and is that everything? Oh, you need two types of citrus. You need lemon and you need orange.
01:46:36
Speaker
So you don't have any of that stuff, so you use old spoiled grapes and a packet of bread yeast, and you put them together in a bottle, then you put that on the stove with a lozenge you find stuck to a pillow that apparently this is their Christmas cabin, so this is at least a year old. And and then the air freshener from your car, which is orange scented, and then a bottle of Old Spice cologne.
01:47:02
Speaker
That's gonna kill somebody, whatever. like And it's also like that you go in, I was not surprised by this twist. I knew something was weird because the cabin was weird. The cabin was abandoned. If he was acting like nothing was wrong. yeah Yeah, no, it definitely, from the get-go, it was pretty obvious that there was gonna be like some sort of twist. And I was like, he's probably dead or something. I didn't expect, like I figured it was like,
01:47:29
Speaker
he was a ghost or something. I didn't expect that it was because he had killed himself. like That was okay, whatever. But i yeah. i don't ah For whatever reason, when I first played this game, I did not see this coming. Oh wow, okay. Until you know the the flashes started happening.
01:47:48
Speaker
And I thought, oh, that is really fucking weird, I didn't expect that. So then I was like, oh, I bet this place is haunted. sure And then, no, it is. And it's too bad because I like short and poignant pieces like this. I like things that make that impact. It's just unfortunate that it left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. It started out kind of... A bad taste like mold wine made with... Yeah, like poisonous mold wine. Terrible taste in my mouth.
01:48:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean so much so I actually considered doing a full write up and analysis on it, but also it's it's tough because this isn't indie developer, they didn't clearly make the art that they wanted to make, I just think that it's potentially Not a good idea to to to handle subjects like this. So, okay. So we can get now now like I guess it's probably time to get into ah this ending. I don't get it. Fucking straight ending. Yeah. Francisco, do you want to take it? I mean, so the girl shows up. It's one year before she shows up one year. Right. She shows up one year before she goes to the cabin. She screams. Then like.
01:49:06
Speaker
a little while later, this detective that looks like colo and sounds like Columbo shows up and he's like, what are you doing in the outhouse? And she's like, they're going to kill me. And then it's like first Christmas coming soon. It's like, OK, so this just pivoted into like some sort of weird cabin murderer.
01:49:27
Speaker
horror movie? I don't know what they're doing. What? This wasn't the game. This was a preview for the actual game you're going to make? I will say this, though. If they go and do First Christmas from Betty's perspective, which is the girlfriend, yeah and they kind of pivot and make this character Frankie, if they make him into the dick that they they have him be in in this game, I think that would speak a lot. I think it would really help.
01:49:56
Speaker
Actually, I've just gone to the Steam page, and the blurb says, Christmas Eve, 1987, and Betty travels up to the family cabin to prepare the original perfect Christmas for Frankie. Discover the events leading up to last Christmas. So, oh, okay. So they weren't broken up. That's very confusing. Because last Christmas, yeah. Because, yeah, what she is preparing something for him. Right.
01:50:23
Speaker
Oh, wait, hold on. On Christmas Eve 1987, Betty arrives at the family cabin and finds herself faced not only with a seemingly endless list of tasks to prepare the perfect Christmas for her new boyfriend, but also tackling a stream of unwanted visitors. What? So Frankie is her new boyfriend. Oh, so Frankie's not her ex-boyfriend.
01:50:42
Speaker
No, well at this time in 1987 Frankie is her new boyfriend but then I guess at some point between 1987 and 1988 they were apart which caused Frankie to take his own life. So to me this whole thing is just like
01:51:04
Speaker
Okay, I would have been happy with a game that was just about making a shitty Christmas for your girlfriend and it's bad, right? Like that is fine for me. yeah To me that's like one of these classic AGS movies. forum like big blue cup forums games is like you just make a week like the puzzles are all weird and the premise is very simple like oh make a Christmas and that's cute it's fun it's fine you did not need to add suicide and murder and not like ah like it it just seems so unnecessary listen I would I would even like it
01:51:45
Speaker
yeah I would like it if it was just a cute sweet and short thing I would also like it if they kept with the dark twist but handled it better and handled it maybe more realistically because if it was more realistic I think it would be more poignant for people yeah versus did this guy just did he just do this like that The majority of people who struggle with suicide ideation don't want to hurt their loved ones. Yeah, I think if it was even I'm cool with the dark ending, man. I like a dark ending. I like a sad twist, especially if it's trying to say something. But what is this trying to say, really? I don't know. You know, it's yeah, it does. It does come out of left field. Yeah. I mean, there is the foreshadowing, but like it also doesn't really
01:52:35
Speaker
do anything. Well the foreshadowing comes out of left field too is my thing. This game does do two cool things that I like, two like just like very minor cool things. And again, I liked setting up a a bad Christmas. I like that if I can ignore the rest. But um it does do two cool things that I like. One, there's a locked room that stays locked the whole game and you never get in. Like that's bold. That's a bold thing to do.
01:53:04
Speaker
yeah And number two. I bet you we'll find out what's behind that door in first Christmas though. I bet you will. You're right. Number two. You could carry every inventory item in the game until the very end.
01:53:18
Speaker
you don't need to do things in any specific order. You can just go around collecting everything and solving it all in your head. And then just like at the very end when you have every inventory item, go put them all down. Like I think that's, there's something really like fun about that. It's like what I always wanted to do as a kid when I played point and click games is I was like, oh, I, I lost the fish. I wish I had, I like, I wanted, I liked that inventory item. I wish I had them all.
01:53:44
Speaker
but it's like collecting all this stuff so we I didn't dislike this game at all. I just think it was handled in a way that it could have been, it could have been even better. It could have been a more satisfying experience. Yeah, it's not a bad game. It's just like you say. But do you guys know what ah the fact that you can carry all the inventory items at once means?
01:54:07
Speaker
How much does your pants weigh? How much do my pants weigh? Everybody, let's pivot away from suicide. A man with very heavy pants. That came out of nowhere. This goodness came out of nowhere. He's also wearing the Marty McFly jacket, which I assume has lots of pockets, so maybe the way he dispersed evenly amongst all of his Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, maybe he's got, yeah maybe it's just, it's how much does my entire body weigh? Which the Colombo is gonna have to figure out for himself pretty soon. I'm sorry. I'm sorry sorry for saying that. Okay, so what do you guys think? How much does, but what do what do you guys think some of the most heavy inventory items in the game besides the very obvious one?
01:54:59
Speaker
The very obvious one being the Christmas tree. the tree Yeah, you're holding an entire an entire tree. um It's not like a small it's not like a room sized tree. It is two floors tall. Yeah, no, this is like an outdoor like nature huge fir tree. Yeah.
01:55:16
Speaker
What else was I carrying? I was carrying like, okay, so I, oh, the cassette, the boombox, we have the boombox. You got a boombox, yeah. The last day of Christmas, I was carrying things.
01:55:29
Speaker
ah pass Some rotten grapes, a lozenge, and a sheet. Yeah, we've got like ah our Wham cassette tape, which it like that weighs nothing. An axe. You got an axe, you got a cooking pot.
01:55:44
Speaker
There's like candles that's at some point cause we put it by the tub. One of those big orange extension cords is pretty heavy. That's pretty heavy. Yeah. I'm going to, okay. And we're counting the tree, right? An antique wooden chair. Remember that.
01:55:58
Speaker
Oh. Yeah, you're carrying everything at once. Because he breaks the chair into pieces, but he picks them all up. So he's got all of them. Okay, and we're including this Christmas tree in the answer, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I don't know how much a tree. No idea. No, what do you think? How much does this man's pants weigh? I'm gonna say 200 pounds, even.
01:56:26
Speaker
Okay, so around the weight of Wrath of the Gods, 200 pounds. Right, that's right. Oh my god, that game makes me so angry. Okay, can I just say that I was very disappointed that nobody commented on that fantastic line, I'm old and have nothing to give you. I have nothing to give you.
01:56:49
Speaker
That's so true. didn't talk about and that what is Literally my life's mantra. I am oh i have nothing to give you ah So if anyone didn't see that we're talking about a game called wrath the gods and we talked about last episode with Alex Pearlman promania five thousand five hundred and that we didn't talk about that scene because in that scene yeah it is like there's a pretty woman and an old person and both of them need to cross the river and then you have you like it's like oh choose either the old woman who has nothing to give you or the young woman who will give you a prize on the other side and them both, okay? Yeah, Like, how, why is one more moral than the other? Either way, you're helping somebody who needs to get across the fucking river. What the fuck sort of morality is that? Where it's like, young women do not deserve your help. Okay, sorry. Go ahead. Uh, okay. I think it's gonna weigh approximately 150 pounds.
01:57:51
Speaker
Oh wow, you guys both went over. It's actually a surprisingly small amount of weight um because a Christmas tree is about 65 pounds. That's what I figured, I still got it wrong. um So overall, it's like 120 pounds.
01:58:09
Speaker
Okay, I wasn't that far off. You weren't very far off, but you could carry 120 pounds around. Listen, I have won both rounds of these games. I got closer than Alex and closer to Francisco, and I won a prize. You won, you your prize is... You have to carry the over you and across river old Thanks, but I'm old and have nothing to give.
01:58:36
Speaker
Can I... yeah can i Can I grab the reins now and and shoehorn in my ulterior motive that I wanted to talk about on this as a as you know being a guest on your podcast again? Well listen, it's Christmas and Christmas is a time for generosity and one thing that we can be generous about is the hosting of this podcast. Go ahead. i wanted to guest We're your guests and you're the host now.
01:59:05
Speaker
No, no, no, no, that's too much responsibility. Nope, too bad, too late, too late. If you want to talk about, you're the host now. Okay, fine, fine. Hello, welcome to my podcast.
01:59:16
Speaker
Did you save your game? I hope you did. Oh, dear God. Now then, let's talk about, let's talk about a classic, classic game from way back in 2004? I actually don't know what year. Golden years.
01:59:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when I graduated high school. Oh, shit. Oh, wow. Let me find it exactly. It's 2005. 2005. OK, I wasn't too far off. When my son was born. Oh, good lord. All right. That gives you guys a little picture of what my life has been like.
01:59:57
Speaker
So so i when you said that this was a Christmas episode, I thought, well, you know what? I have a very, very, I don't want to say fond, but definitely a specific memory of a Christmas themed adventure puzzle that I think has gained somewhat of a reputation amongst the adventure game playing community because, you know, it's it's one of those games from probably published by the adventure company.
02:00:28
Speaker
um develop by Oh, actually, yes, it was. I'm looking on likeki Wikipedia right now. Wikipedia, I said. It should be Wikipedia. It's made by Microids. Made by Microids, published by The Adventure Company. Yes, I'm talking about still life. Have either of you played still life?
02:00:51
Speaker
I have, and it's been a while. It's been a really long time now. I'll lay my cards on the table. You told me you were going to be doing this. So I did play Still Life this week. Holy shit, Matt. I didn't finish it. You're dedicated. No, don't bother. It sucks. What? Hold on. All right, we'll talk about it. It's kind of beloved, though. All right, you've got three minutes to state your case on Still Life.
02:01:19
Speaker
state my case okay yeah i i i assumed you were going to defend it am i wrong no i hate the life i fucking need still life it's one of the worst adventure games i've ever played so i but i bring it up yeah because it has a very appropriate puzzle for the season which is the cookie puzzle That was the worst puzzle. This is okay. Good. Yeah. Tell everyone about the well, the cookie puzzle in and of itself is terrible. I don't know. I'll, I'll explain why in a moment, but first I want to explain within the wider context of the game, why this cookie puzzle is just one of many reasons why still life is the, in fact, the worst adventure game I have ever played. played One of the worst. I don't know why I thought you were going to defend it. ah No, cause it sucks. Okay.
02:02:08
Speaker
So Still Life is actually the second in a trilogy of games. There was a Still Life 2, which I never played. and The first game was called Post Mortem. Yeah. I didn't play that one either. But Still Life is kind of a bridge game in that you play as this this FBI agent named Victoria McPherson, I believe her name is.
02:02:31
Speaker
I don't know why I'm guessing because I'm looking at the Wikipedia. Yeah, it's Victoria McPherson. She's an FBI agent. You just didn't want to seem like you were looking at the Wikipedia, so you pretend like you're just remembering. No, I'm looking, I was, and then I looked for confirmation. 2004 Chicago, I believe, with this year's Father for Christmas. You are in Chicago. Holy shit, I forgot. He discovers an old notebook by the colander and grandfather, I believe.
02:02:54
Speaker
okay so you guys did you know that i live in chicago i was just gonna say when when i messaged matt matt was like roses doesn't want to play still life and i was like you should tell roses to play so still life because the serial killer is literally an artist she'd love it and then bird I didn't remember it took place in Chicago. So now you have double the reason to play