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Episode 50 - Q & A: Tea Edition
1.2k Plays2 days ago
It’s been a wild (sic) since we’ve done a Q & A, so we address topics like our favorite references in games, games that we liked as kids but disliked as adults, Roses’ favorite Carmen Sandiego, and what franchises we’d like to see as adventure games!
But first, we talk about our thoughts on Wanderstop, which is an incredibly unique and interesting game.
And Matt drinks a lot of tea.
Email us! mattandroses@gmail.com
Games Mentioned:
- Fields of Mistria
- Wanderstop
- Hugo’s House of Horrors
- Conker’s Bad Fur Day
- Spyro the Dragon
- Sonic the Hedgehog
- Grim Fandango
- Curse of Monkey Island
- Dreams in the Witch House
- Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon
- Discworld
- Batman: Arkham Asylum
- Spider-Man
- Marvel Midnight Suns
- The Abbey of Crime
- The Abbey
- Daria’s Inferno
- An English Haunting
- Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?
- Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?
- Where in the USA is Carmen Sandiego?
- Excavation of Hob’s Barrow
- Scarlet Hollow
- Backfirewall
- Smile for Me
- Roadwarden
- Legend of Kyrandia II: Hand of Fate
- UFO 50
- Indiana Jones and the Great Circle
- Atomfall
- Avowed
- Wayward Strand
- Torin’s Passage
- Star Trek adventure games
- Heaven’s Vault
- Blazing Dragons
- Pentiment
- Hypnospace Outlaw
- Kentucky Route Zero
- Silent Hill 2
- Cat Café Manager
Recommended
Transcript
Teapot and New Rituals
00:00:00
Speaker
um I got a teapot. It is one I found. Okay, so I was just, there was a, um there's a church just outside of my housing development, and they had a thrift sale.
00:00:12
Speaker
Ooh, did you find any adventure games at the church? I did find a cool graphic novel. not Novel? Novel? novel A graphic novel. It's a new thing. Wow. um I can't even think of what that would be a pun for. So forget that joke.
00:00:29
Speaker
Off ramp. um I found teapot. I love it. You know what? I don't drink tea, but I love a teapot moment.
00:00:40
Speaker
i've had like I've had a tea kettle for a long time to heat ah water on my stove, but I've never had a teapot. So now I put the leaves in the teapot and I pour the water in the teapot And like, this is my new podcast ah ritual is like i an empty cup and I bring a teapot full of already brewed tea and already sweetened. You can put sugar in the teapot.
00:01:05
Speaker
You can. and then All right. Well, did you bring enough for me? Did you bring me a glass with some leaves? Yep, here you go. Oh, God. i don't I just said I don't like tea.
00:01:17
Speaker
It's spilling all over your desk. Oh, no. It's burning you.
Podcast Introduction
00:01:40
Speaker
hey everybody, welcome back to Save Your Game. I am your host, Matt Aukamp, with me, as always, is the scalded, the yeah the tea-hating.
00:01:53
Speaker
And scolded, apparently. ah This is pushing up roses, everybody. pushing a presence welcome to everybody hi everybody welcome welcome to me welcome to you everybody welcome to you here i am world how's it going good i love your little teapot ritual maybe i should have a ritual uh which what You don't like tea, so it can't be that. It's not tea.
00:02:22
Speaker
It could be coffee, but it shouldn't be. You love scones. No, no, no, no. i gave up I gave them up. Whoa. I gave up Okay, I wanted
Snack Dilemma and Rituals
00:02:32
Speaker
to talk about them. This is going to be a Listen, something happened.
00:02:36
Speaker
To where I can't, they became too sweet. They didn't change. They never change. The same scone that I always get. And one day I'm like, ooh, this tastes really extra sweet. But I'm like, yeah, whatever. And then I ordered them again they were too sweet. Again, they didn't change.
00:02:53
Speaker
Scones didn't change. You changed. I changed. It's so deep. and So I guess what I'm looking for, my dear listeners, I need a new snack that isn't s scones. All right. Let me pitch you Sure.
00:03:08
Speaker
Okay. All right. And this can be a ritual too. Bring a ah boiling cup of water okay over to your desk. hu Sit it down next to you.
00:03:19
Speaker
Has to be absolutely as hot as it could possibly be, even if you can put it in like something that will keep it boiling like a like on a Bunsen burner. yeah Yeah, let me just go set up my Bunsen burner real quick.
00:03:33
Speaker
Then you have ah in your drawer next to you, in your computer desk drawer, you have a bunch of dry pasta. And what you do is you take one pasta at a time and you dip it in the water.
00:03:49
Speaker
That's my ritual. And then you eat the pasta like that. Yeah. don't. So like a spaghetti and you end up having one little crunchy bit at the end and the rest is nice and soft.
00:04:01
Speaker
Because I can't put my fingers in it. So it's just like, yeah got that one extra al dente part of the spaghetti. That's my pitch. Listeners, if you guys have a better one.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, please.
00:04:16
Speaker
ah Please have a better one. ah But yeah, I'm looking for new snacks. Matt suggested one pasta part at a time. ah it doesn't have to not be sweet.
00:04:28
Speaker
I don't like pretzels. there's so I went to ah Lancaster this weekend and ah I had some Amish made soft pretzels. And they were slathered in butter. they were flattered.
00:04:39
Speaker
fucking so good oh my god i wish i was eating one right now i got let me let me rephrase i don't like crunchy okay pretzels the one that come like the snacks that you get on an airplane i like the soft ones okay i have an idea how about you have a bunsen burner with a boiling water next to your keyboard and just yeah like next to you while you record sounds safe in your uh computer drawer you keep a bunch of crunchy pretzels and you dip them in and i boil them yeah yeah exactly then then now they're soft wow hey smat roses have you been playing anything lately sure have okay so i've been uh i played the i think the entire fields of mystery i'll update
00:05:27
Speaker
Holy shit.
Fields of Mysteria Game Update
00:05:28
Speaker
Yep. Yep. So I did not, I think we talked about this. i did not start my game over, ah which was tough. It was, it was a little tough at first. I'm just like, Oh no, like, I don't know what I'm doing. i don't remember where anything is, but I got readjusted pretty quickly And um yeah, I played through, i guess, the not but like the next 10 to 15 hours. um There's some good updates.
00:05:52
Speaker
I'll put that out there. I did not play the previous update because it seemed like it was a little bare bones. um So I waited. So I don't know exactly what's new and what's from the last update. But there are some there's some secret characters. Ooh.
00:06:09
Speaker
there's, um oh, there's a new way of getting around the town. What? Yes. Whoa. Yes. So i I have also been playing the Fields of Mysteria update, and I started over.
00:06:22
Speaker
I started a brand new save. and ah Wild. i hadn't I didn't play the last update either. So I'm also just like, I don't know what's new. yeah I almost don't even know what was in the original because, again, I started over. Right.
00:06:38
Speaker
ah The secret characters are definitely, definitely new. yeah Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say secret characters, but I'm excited. yeah and they opened up more mine levels. It's not finished, which is... Dude, I i go hard when there's, like, mines. Okay. Because I don't play farming sims for the farm.
00:07:00
Speaker
And I'll say this, Fields of Mystery... You don't have to put emphasis on farming. I think Stardew has more emphasis on farming. I think it's more important because you're trying to reach goals in the community center. There's a mechanic that kind of relies on your farming.
00:07:16
Speaker
But in Mystria, I don't really fuck with it.
00:07:21
Speaker
i My goal is to Do quests and make friends and romance people, which that's a very upsetting part of the update. There is still no romantic scenes.
00:07:33
Speaker
You can get to six, You can get to six. Yeah. Six. And they're not very. I got to six with March and I'm like, oh, cool. Great. He taught me how to make a shield.
00:07:44
Speaker
So romantic. i'm up to I'm up to four with Selene in this new game. And i I think we're going to be naked together soon.
00:07:55
Speaker
Wow. Okay. All right. i think It's not going to happen in six. I'm just letting know. It's not. There's no... Dude, there is no romance yet. right. I'm going to download mod.
00:08:08
Speaker
You can just give Celine flowers, right? She's pretty Yeah, she's easy. She's easy. Yeah. ah as Sorry. Sorry, Celine. You're really easy. Real easy.
00:08:19
Speaker
ah But yeah, there will be new romantic characters, new datables that have previously not been mentioned. So I think that's really cool. Wow. Yeah, and i do like i do like some of the quests.
00:08:32
Speaker
But again, I like the mines the most. So I think I got up to level 80 now, and they're capped. So... Interesting. But you know what? That's okay. As soon as I got readjusted to it, I'm like, oh, this is so fun.
00:08:44
Speaker
like it's It's so fun. Unfortunately, i did grind so hard in my last game that I'm rich. There's just no there' is no challenge to earning money for me yeah this point, which I don't know. Maybe that's what I needed.
00:09:01
Speaker
Maybe I just need a fun game to not stress out about, you know? i mean, I absolutely, i don't. I don't have any problems with money in this game. yeah when i When I decide it's time to buy stuff, I just, there's nothing that I'm yeah I'm not like, oh, I can only get this and this until next, until whatever, next season. You're always flush with Yeah.
00:09:26
Speaker
yeah flush with it Yeah, that's not and that's not a big challenge at all. But I will say that some of the minds are pretty challenging and they're yeah rewarding when you when you fulfill those. So yeah. like there's, oh my God, you're going to love this. Can I can i tell you something?
00:09:42
Speaker
Oh, you might have already. you So are you aware of what's her name? The older woman with the pink hair that is Elsie. I think her name is Elsie. She's an older character.
00:09:54
Speaker
i have trouble remembering any. Yeah, so do I. She has a new mechanic that will help you. I'm not going to say. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We won't explain what it does, but gossip.
00:10:08
Speaker
Yes, called Gossip. And it is a gri is a I think it's a very helpful mechanic. You know, I think Mystria really learned a lot from Stardew in terms of what can make this game a little bit easier to play. Not not easier per se, but like less stressful, less frustrating. So you're not reliant on guides because these games do depend a lot on guides. I don't blame anybody. and when i When i learned Stardew, I used to guide ah because they're they're very comprehensive.
00:10:37
Speaker
Mystria almost feels like somebody played Stardew with a wish list next them. Yeah, it's true. yeah Yeah, you can really tell um what they wanted to improve on.
00:10:49
Speaker
and they're do And honestly, it's taking some very creative ways. It's using creative ways to to do that. and And I appreciate that. I loved all the cool creative ways that you can that these mechanics have been fixed up.
00:11:04
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah. ah i'm I'm also and i'm enjoying it a lot. i Yeah. It's so fun. It's so, oh my God. yeah The animals, though, are just, that they're so cute. Like, I thought the Stardew animals were cute, right?
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah. But the mystery animals... They're the cutest. They're so adorable. They're very cute. Yeah, and they play together. They play, yeah. You can get a seesaw for them to seesaw with each other. yeah It's ridiculous. it It almost feels like... You could hear how cute the Mistrya animals are and be like, that's too much. that's It's going to look ridiculous. It's going to be...
00:11:37
Speaker
like saccharine yeah it's not it's great it's really cute i have a capybara and my capybara is so cute and when it's when it's a baby it looks like a guinea pig and it's so cute that's what do ah yeah capybaras are just giant guinea pigs yeah they're it's it's so adorable i just love it So there's another game we've both been playing, and I know we can't have this full discussion yet, but I want to not yet yeah i want to start the
Exploring Wanderstop Game
00:12:06
Speaker
discussion.
00:12:06
Speaker
Okay. And it's it's that we've both, you've finished, and I four hours into Wanderstop. Yes. Yes. and I am really enjoying it so far, ah though I can only play it in short doses.
00:12:24
Speaker
Oh, I binged it. Ha! Yeah. What Wanderstop does is it presents you a game like... Okay. All right. So we we've talked about this a little bit before and we talked about the demo. It is about a person who is experiencing burnout.
00:12:42
Speaker
but They push themselves too hard to be a warrior and now they can't even lift their sword and they're stopping at a tea shop called Wanderstop until they can rest and recover. And the whole game is built around rest and relaxation.
00:12:57
Speaker
And the game does the same thing to you as a player, or at least attempts to, by doing things like... Not giving you any fail states, not giving you any true objectives, any objective you have. I just did this and I did it by accident, but I found it cool is if somebody gives you an objective, you can walk up to them and say, i can't do that.
00:13:20
Speaker
And they'll okay, no problem. It also resets your progress. Yeah. Yes, yeah. yeah if you if you've create If you've found any rewards for the things you've done, they will be gone yeah in a couple hours.
00:13:34
Speaker
Which a little sad because like i found a mug I really liked and It was gone. too. But then I found a bunch of other more mugs I liked. Yeah, I know. I know. um And the achievements, you get achievements for certain things, but they appear randomly.
00:13:54
Speaker
You don't know what they are for. i i have a feeling I know what they're linked to, but they will appear roughly randomly. you know between 5 and 30 minutes after you do the thing yeah so that your mind detaches it.
00:14:10
Speaker
They don't want you to feel any sense of ah compulsion to play it, any sense of addiction. And i think it's interesting because it it's interesting, especially when we're talking about games like Fields of Mysteria, right? I was thinking about Wanderstop a lot while playing Mysteria because...
00:14:29
Speaker
What Wanderstop doesn't do is it doesn't give you any sense of progression. It doesn't in any way make the game easier to play.
00:14:39
Speaker
right And it made me start thinking about why we care about progression to begin with. What is so appealing? if I like a game, if I like say mystery or stardew so much, why is it?
00:14:55
Speaker
I don't, I don't have an answer to this. I don't even know if this is an answerable question, but why is it that I so desperately want the thing that allows me to stop doing the actions I've been doing so far?
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, i it's it is interesting. um i I'll make a point to say that i have OCD and I would love a stopping point. I think it is important to have something where you've progressed and then it stops and you have an outcome because otherwise, what the fuck are we doing?
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah. That's the main thing in life, right? Is is looking for a point. um But you're right. You're right in that this is a very interesting game because it doesn't give you strict limitations.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's really going for that vibe of like, do what you can do. We can. And, ah you know, no rush, no schedule here. i'm like, what an interesting, interesting mechanic.
00:15:55
Speaker
And the the magic of Wanderstop is not just, you know, it does it does deal with like burnout. It talks about burnout. But what I think is even more wonderful is it talks about changing paths.
00:16:09
Speaker
And I think and like changing and changing paths at a pivotal point in your life too. And we'll talk more in depth about this when we do maybe a full deep dive, but I think that is ah very special thing to talk about.
00:16:22
Speaker
um And I really highly related to the ah the introduction to the game and the feelings of burnout and changing paths and You know, I'm my birthday is coming up and I'm getting older and I just started doing ceramics.
00:16:38
Speaker
And it reminded me of something you told me, Matt. ah You told me about this woman that lived to be like 120. And they asked if she could do something differently. What would she do?
00:16:49
Speaker
And she said, I would take a violin 90 so that for the last 30 years, I'd be an excellent violin player. but like, that's so are you OK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lid of my teapot fell onto my teacup.
00:17:03
Speaker
is ah But nothing broke, Nothing. Everything's fine. Everything's fine. I'm still learning. I'm still learning this teapot. I'm still getting familiar with this teapot. Getting my teapot skills down. But yeah, I just think that's... Until I get the teapot upgrade where I just i press the button.
00:17:20
Speaker
And a robotic hand comes out and grabs my teapot and pours the pee for me. Yeah, exactly. Or like AI comes I don't know how that would work. It's an AI teapot. But yeah, no, I think it's very special. I think it has a really good point. The game tells you several points. Like, if you're not enjoying this, don't do it.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah. And I think... That's like when the game first resets, that's what um ah your your your pal. Boro. Boro. That's what Boro says to you. He's like, is something only beautiful because it stays? Can something be beautiful temporarily? And he says, yeah you know, if you aren't enjoying the process of doing these things, if you're only doing them so that they like collect things,
00:18:04
Speaker
then maybe you shouldn't be doing it, right? Like, yeah it if you're not enjoying the game, if you're enjoying the moment to moment of the game, then why are you playing it? And it's it's really talking about, it's less talking about games and more talking about ah life.
00:18:21
Speaker
yeah But what it is saying about gaming is also very interesting. Yeah. And it's also, you know, it also brings up ah the topic of productivity.
00:18:32
Speaker
Why do we only feel productive when we're overworking ourselves? You know, so you go from being a warrior to, you know, managing tea shop, you're making tea and your character doesn't find that productive. But why?
00:18:47
Speaker
When it is productive, you know, when you are doing something, even if it's, you know, less stressful than obviously fighting. And because it is tea management, you know, you're bringing tea to certain characters too. And that's also productive because you are, you know, surfacing someone. So I think that's, I really like that. I've never seen a game in in a management sim try to make these points, you know?
00:19:13
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think the other thing I've never seen any game do, not just in sim game, you don't see the end of every story.
00:19:24
Speaker
That's true. Yes, that's true. yeah there are There are many characters who have a story. You catch them in the middle of their story. Then they leave. And you never see them again. You don't get to see how it turns out.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's, I mean, again. Because things change, yeah. Yeah, it's making a broader point about life, right? Like you don't get to see every ending. And what you're saying, Roses, why is it only productive if you get, why why do you only feel productive if you get to the end?
00:19:57
Speaker
Right. Why is it not productive just to experience something? And why does productivity have to be insanely hard? You know what I mean? Like the the character, you know she goes on to say that she's worked her ass off for to be ah a good warrior. She trained forever and she had her sword made in a specific way. And I think we as a society, we we equate productivity to how hard we are working instead of how smart we're working.
00:20:28
Speaker
you know Yeah, it's it's really it's really interesting. ah There's a character, and it's also got a good sense of humor about it. It's silly. It it made me giggle a couple times. There's this crotchety woman.
00:20:42
Speaker
I don't know if you've met her yet. ah Shopkeeper?
00:20:49
Speaker
No. She has a shop outside. Yes. Oh, you have met her? Yes. I love that character. She cracks me up. She thinks that she's in a competition with you and you're kind of like, for what? she's just a company And it that's it's so, again, it's making this broader point about like, these are the sort of mechanics people, these are the sort of things that motivate people, but why?
00:21:14
Speaker
And aren't they aren't they also kind of absurd? And ah also, this is the sort of thing that games use to motivate you. And why? Yeah, yeah.
00:21:26
Speaker
It's great. I mean, i highly recommend it. I will bring up some ah cons when you have finished it and when we do our deep dive. Sure, sure. Or maybe our deep dive. Maybe this will be the first deep dive we do in pieces.
00:21:39
Speaker
and beginning But um okay. ah So that's Wanderstop. Also, the last thing I'll say is ah the soundtrack has become an all-timer for me. It's great.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, it's lovely. I immediately added it to a Spotify playlist with like the soundtracks to um Outer Wilds and Citizen Sleeper as like, this is what I listen to when I'm when I'm writing or when I'm doing homework or whatever.
00:22:10
Speaker
um It's in incredible soundtrack. It's given me some ah calm Final Fantasy music vibes, which I'm all about.
00:22:21
Speaker
i I was just like, oh, this is making me feel a certain type of way. I like it.
Creators Behind Wanderstop
00:22:26
Speaker
The composer is, i think, the composer for Minecraft. This is another thing. And this is the thing that maybe we should talk about later when I finish the game is it's interesting the people that are making this point.
00:22:39
Speaker
yeah Because these are the Stanley Parable guys. Yeah. I mean, that explains why it's got a good sense of humor about it. This is the Stanley Parable team. And it is also the, and again, it is the composer of ah Minecraft music. So these are incredibly successful game developers. And there's always something about like...
00:23:02
Speaker
I always feel a little weird when um the people that give you these kinds of messages, like, don't don't burn yourself out. Don't work too hard. Make sure you're stopping to enjoy life. You know, ah success shouldn't always be the goal.
00:23:16
Speaker
When I'm getting those sort of lessons, those lectures from people who are already very successful. Yeah, sure. It's like, okay, easy for you to say. Sure.
00:23:27
Speaker
Absolutely. totally get that. But I think these are still important things. And I think it is an interesting game. And also very funny, very sweet, very pretty.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, very beautiful game. Yep. Okay.
Nostalgic Adventure Games
00:23:42
Speaker
So what are what are we here for today, Roses? What are we even frigging doing? Tea! No, we're not here for tea.
00:23:50
Speaker
I'm here for tea. Unless you have some tea to share with me if you want. Yeah, hold on. but not No, not that. No, not. No! Oh, no!
00:24:02
Speaker
We are going to be answering some questions. Oh, my God. It's been a hot minute. A while since we've done a Q&A. Yeah. It's been a while since we've done a It's been while.
00:24:15
Speaker
We're good at this. What are we doing? Okay, Why don't we play some he Sunky Pankarino? Oh, wow. That's exotic sounding. We'll be rotic sorry <unk> be right back with questions.
00:24:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:46
Speaker
Hey, Rosas, welcome back. Hi, thank you.
00:25:02
Speaker
hey rose welcome back thank you And ah listeners, too. You're also welcome back. You don't have to leave or anything. Hey, ah I've got a question for you.
00:25:13
Speaker
And it's from a dude named Steve. ah You have a question for me, but it's from someone else? Yeah, he's Steve is speaking through me. Wow. Oh, wow. Cool.
00:25:23
Speaker
And he asks, do you have an adventure game that you remember fondly from your childhood, but when you replay it as an adult, it's He says dot, dot, dot. Let's say dot, dot, dot.
00:25:37
Speaker
Less than ideal. you're you're You're saying bad. yeah His example is Amazon the Explorer's Legacy, yeah which ah he remembers from his childhood fondly.
00:25:52
Speaker
But now that he didn't hold up. Yeah. Playing it as an adult, he's like, oh, so great. Oh, so many. So many. so many, Steven. One that Matt and I just talked about off air is the Hugo hugo Trilogy games. He was Half of Horrors, Jungle of Doom, and Whodunit.
00:26:13
Speaker
I really did like those games when I was young. But, you know, upon replaying them, you Why? There were so many better games out there. What was going on with those fucking games?
00:26:28
Speaker
I just I do love that I do love them so much I don't the quality is terrible the puzzles are very bad ah but I I can't help it and it's nostalgia based for sure but not and not when I was kid when I was a kid I was like oh yeah these remind me of King's Quest and Space Quest and I love all those so I love this too and And I think a lot of people's first experiences were with those lesser games like Hugo and ah some of the other you know knockoff adventure games.
00:27:04
Speaker
Well, are there games, though, is there a game that you played as a kid and loved and tried to play it as an adult and were just like, this sucks. I can't even play it. One did come to mind. it This might be an unfair answer. I'm not sure. But when I was an edgy teenager, i really i loved my and I loved Conker's Bad Fur Day.
00:27:29
Speaker
And in that game, there is a like a GoldenEye-esque like split screen. What would you call that? Like um and it's not a death royale because I don't know if you're killing anybody, but there is a multiplayer part of that game. but It is unplayable today. The graphics are terrible. The controls are like, I don't even, have no clue how I managed to play it and like it as a kid. It is not playable.
00:27:59
Speaker
And I think, you know, i think a lot of those kind of N64 games are kind of like that. yeah ah Like you remember the graphics being amazing and in the mechanics being so easy to play.
00:28:12
Speaker
And you bring it up again and you're like, oh, I can't, I don't know what's going on. I can't even figure out what's on the screen. Yeah, I feel that way about a lot of platforming games.
00:28:23
Speaker
yeah I bought the Spyro collection Switch a couple years ago, and fine. It's fine? It's fine.
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's like fine. yeah's Same with trying to play Crash Bandicoot. I think the biggest one, though, is Sonic the Hedgehog. i still I still love, I love Sanic. It's one my faves. I just can't play Sonic. And I think I was never able to put my finger on it until I heard somebody else describe the problem with Sonic, which is it is asking you to do two opposite things at all times.
00:28:58
Speaker
It is asking you to go as fast as you can. That's the whole thing. Like, oh, Sonic is so fast. yeah ah And in this game, you can run so fast. Yeah.
00:29:10
Speaker
But you can't because you got to keep stopping to collect stuff and to find secrets and to fight guys. Like, the game doesn't actually want you to go as fast as it's ah like alleging.
00:29:25
Speaker
It wants you to stop and like- Collect rings and Collect rings. Go to the bonus levels. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and like engage in all of its challenges. And yeah that's, so the the two the two do not connect.
00:29:40
Speaker
they're It's very frustrating, I think now to play Sonic and just ask yourself like, what does this game want from me? Yeah. I play it now like I'm speed running it.
00:29:52
Speaker
i I do that with a lot of the games I played on the Genesis. I just go as fast as I can. yeah And I don't do the bonus levels anymore, which yeah is infuriating because that's part of the goal, right? Is to get these bonus levels so you can be like Super Saiyan, Sonic or whatever, the Gold Sonic.
00:30:11
Speaker
yeah um I still love Sonic, but I understand. I understand why the the magic might be lost as an adult. And I didn't understand that as a kid either. I was i like knew something felt off about Sonic.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah. like I knew something felt frustrating about it, but I still would have said to anybody, like I love Sonic the Hedgehog. um and then yeah and then playing it as an adult, it's like, oh man, i of course, this game was just driving me crazy the entire time.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah. No, I totally, totally understand. do you? Yeah. Yeah. No, those are my answers, is Hugo and ah specifically Conker's Bad Fur Day, I think I have.
00:30:52
Speaker
I mean, I'm not really the demographic for that game anymore. So, you know. Yeah. I liked it as a teen, and now I'm just like, okay, well, there's a character that is just a turd singing to me. That's...
00:31:08
Speaker
That's just wonderful. That's real? That's in the game? Yeah. The Great Mighty Poo. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. don't know if I want to play Conker's Bad Fur Day. Oh, we're playing it. That's what we're doing for my birthday. I thought you knew.
00:31:22
Speaker
i thought we were playing Myst. Okay. Do you want to read the next email? Yes. So this next email is from Tyler. Hi, Tyler. So they were kind of, but their question was inspired by the episode where we were talking about dialogue trees and, and narrations and, um you know, skipping, not
Crafting Game Dialogue
00:31:42
Speaker
skipping. They would like to know as a, um as a casual writer hoping to start a novel,
00:31:50
Speaker
While, ah what do you think captures the ideal conversational descriptive text in games you've played? That's tough. I think that's really tough because this is going to be a very subjective answer, right?
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah. but yeah, they were they were you know they were talking about feeling guilt by skipping to the dialogue to try to get it through faster. What makes harmony for you in descriptive text or dialogue trees?
00:32:22
Speaker
Good. good I mean, that's a very, very good question. I think um my my first instinct is to stay say naturalistic, but that has its limits, right? Yeah. Because...
00:32:34
Speaker
ah There are a lot of games that have very naturalistic dialogue that bounces back and forth way too much. Like they try too hard to make it naturalistic and you're just clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking.
00:32:46
Speaker
um So I think what makes good dialogue is a combination of the two. And I think this, I've also been thinking about this because ah I read a lot of comic books.
00:33:03
Speaker
And I've been reading my way through the X-Men. i've I've mentioned that on this podcast before. And hey, go check out ah Mutant Menace, new podcast by me and Pat Reber. What cute name. think the trailer should be out this week.
00:33:18
Speaker
I'll be on your podcast. Thanks for asking. I know so much about X-Men. um But I've been like... Chris Claremont is this guy who absolutely overwrites, but he wrote yeah the best run of X-Men at the same time. and And the question is, like, why is this so good and so bad in equal measure?
00:33:36
Speaker
um And so I've been thinking about this a lot. and I think, like, it is a, there is a combination. i can't answer about Chris Claremont, by the way. But I can answer ah my my feeling about dialogue is it has to be both naturalistic and pithy.
00:33:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like, okay, smart people speaking as clever as as the like at the most clever person you know and the most like concise person you know. And the dumb people are speaking in, you know, like a You want character to come through, but in as few lines as possible, to be honest. Yeah, yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
I always liked more terse. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, even if we're looking at something like Grim Fandango, even though there is a lot of narration, there's a lot of dialogue tree options, which I think is very funny to be given options to be able to respond the way that you feel the character should respond. They are terse.
00:34:34
Speaker
ah responses, even in Curse of Monkey Island. you're You could respond as Guybrush in so many ways, but they're pretty terse answers. you know Like when you're talking to mury tim Murray, you can be like, can I call you Bob?
00:34:46
Speaker
And that's a very terse you know answer. um You can't really do that in a novel. Obviously, you can't just be like, pick which dialogue you think. So it is it is quite different in that respect.
00:34:58
Speaker
um But I think, i personally, I think the more terse it is, so I like it. look Maybe not terse, but concise. I really like concise writing.
00:35:09
Speaker
i was I was replaying actually the other day, um Dreams in the Witch House, as if we didn't play that through enough. Oh my God, I can't even do it again for real. Yeah.
00:35:21
Speaker
um So i was replaying Dreams in the Witch House and there is a game where the the dialogue isn't too naturalistic, but it is very brief. It is quick. It is to the point.
00:35:31
Speaker
And i think i think that that's, you know, to the point and revealing, right? In a novel... I don't mean to give this guy ah fiction writing advice because, or this person fiction writing advice, because what they're specifically asking about is ah how we feel about it in games.
00:35:51
Speaker
But I'm going to, anyway, ah in a novel, same as in ah movie, and this is a little bit different in games, but you want, every line of dialogue to either advance the story or advance our depth of understanding about the character.
00:36:09
Speaker
And ideally, every line of dialogue should do both. Guybrush Threepwood's a great example. Anytime he talks, you either are learning something new about Guybrush Threepwood or...
00:36:21
Speaker
you are learning something about Guybrush Threepwood and advancing the story. Yeah. um He just, he speaks as himself at all times. So even if he's not saying like, I was born and ah and that, that makes horrible dialogue. Have you watched any of the, ah ah what's that guy's name? um He did Haunting of Hill House for Netflix and he did that vampire show for Netflix.
00:36:51
Speaker
yeah i I have to Google, it but I guess I do. do know. Haunting of Bly Manor. Yeah. can't remember his name offhand. um I liked but oh ah Mike Flanagan.
00:37:01
Speaker
Mike Flanagan. Okay. I loved, by the way, i loved Bly Manor. I thought it was terrifying. um I loved Haunting of Hill House. I thought that was terrifying. My manner was intriguing to me, but not terrifying in my... You're right. Haunting of Hill House was way... Now that I'm thinking about it, was pretty fucking scary. It was so scary. um I had... The one time that I ever had sleep paralysis, it was very brief, but it was because I fell asleep thinking about that show. show, yeah. um The problem with Mike Flanagan dialogue
00:37:32
Speaker
is He puts it all in words. This has grown to like become his style, is these long monologues. But nobody talks like that, right? Right, yeah.
00:37:46
Speaker
In order to reveal something about a character, he doesn't just give them some sort of dialogue quirk where it's like, oh, they speak hesitantly. So, you know, they're nervous. He has them sit down and go, when I was a kid, my mom, and you should have met my mom. She is a great woman.
00:38:04
Speaker
My mom. What are you, Columbo? the one You gotta to be my wife. The one thing that she always did was she always used to tell me ah whatever. Like, he'll just you'll just go on this long, long, long thing to just tell you this guy's anxious, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:22
Speaker
All you need to do is have the person hesitate when they're going to speak. Okay, no, they're anxious. I know that they're anxious about stuff. Yeah, but why no why show when we could explain it and tell it, as they say?
00:38:36
Speaker
So, I don't know. the This is a very, very hard question to answer. Do you have any other insights? I think my biggest insight is i am prone to enjoying dialogue if I truly get a sense of who the character is.
00:38:51
Speaker
ah Monkey Island 1 does that immediately. It sets the tone immediately when you are a guybrush. I want to be a mighty pirate. You're talking to the lookout. So now I will listen to literally anything that Guybrush says. I feel that way about Grim Fandango. These are fully realized characters with stories and backgrounds and they're intriguing and you're curious about them.
00:39:15
Speaker
And so, you know, I know it's probably cliche to say um i did take a fiction writing course. I majored in fiction writing for a little while. And it we did exercises where we started from nothing and then had a fully realized character. What is their motivation? And again, that sounds trite, like, oh, it's my motivation here.
00:39:35
Speaker
But it's true. um But yeah, like I said, if you haven't played the Monkey Island games, it might be worth looking back at the dialogue and seeing how that progresses. They're very well written.
00:39:46
Speaker
I think Guybrush Threepwood is the best example in all of adventure games. Yeah. a character whose dialogue is just perfectly written, even where a different writer is writing him.
00:40:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I thought that just, that's a testament to the character. We have fully realized this character to where we know who he is. Yeah. That's important. All right. How about this one from David david ask Have you ever had a prized artistic property that was featured
Discworld Game Adaptation
00:40:20
Speaker
in the game? And did that reference reference or depiction live up to your expectations?
00:40:24
Speaker
Or would you prefer it did better? So they're talking about ah what ah Wagner's ring cycle being used in an adventure game called Ring. Oh, I see. Okay. ah So like, is there something that you, before there was a game about it, you already loved this property and they made a game. and how did you feel about it?
00:40:43
Speaker
Interestingly, i have a little bit of a soft spot for franchised games. I think this kind of yeah kind of ties into what we're talking about here. a lot of them are cash grabs. A lot of them are kind of terrible.
00:40:56
Speaker
um And i'm trying now I'm trying to think of one that's actually good. And you know what oh you know what it is? It's Discworld. That is a beloved, prized property that...
00:41:07
Speaker
that ah Terry Pratchett was asked permission to do. um Long story short, Terry Pratchett wasn't very interested in putting his property into video gaming form.
00:41:19
Speaker
However, when the devs for Discworld approached him, he actually liked their idea so much that he said, yes, I will do it as long as I'm consulting on it.
00:41:31
Speaker
so So not only is this a very accurate franchise game that is having like a prized property, the author himself is involved, ah which I think is is pretty rare.
00:41:45
Speaker
i also want to um also want to point out, and I should say that my expectations for Discworld were low when I played it as a kid. They are... ah far and above and beyond expectations. That is a Discworld property in my mind. It is super accurate. They they treated it very well.
00:42:06
Speaker
And I want to point the finger at Callahan's Crosstime Saloon as well. They actually use a lot of properties in that game. They use a lot of um music and ah obviously ah characters and settings from Spider Robinson who wrote the Callahan's and books.
00:42:25
Speaker
it's It is its own like story. so It is an adaptation, but it's also its own its own thing. That game does not get enough ah anything.
00:42:36
Speaker
It does not get enough credit. It is a very funny game. If you want games that do have long dialogue, just going segueing a little bit back to our last question, that game does it very well.
00:42:48
Speaker
and it's It's a little wordy. um But yeah, there's there's a few artistic properties that were featured in Callahan's that I can't, like I'm a little bit blanking. But I do recall it being great.
00:43:01
Speaker
And yeah, i would say I would say a lot of franchise games kind of do that, but most of them are junk. yeah But these two games, they take the the source material and they expand on it and it's just great.
00:43:18
Speaker
um That's awesome. I, as a ah a as a comic book dude, have no... uh shortage of games in this ilk right and some of them are incredible and some of them are horrible um uh like uh the batman arkham games are really really good depictions of bat batman and they're fun games and the spider-man um who who makes those games the insomniac i think does it insomniac really
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah, the the Insomniac Spider-Man games ah are incredibly, incredibly good. And they feel like good Spider-Man stories. ah The best comic book game that I've probably ever played, I've talked about it on the show, is ah Marvel Midnight Suns.
00:44:14
Speaker
Oh, I was going to say The Mask the Adventure game from the 1990s, clearly. No, that's number two. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. ah Yeah, ah Marvel Midnight Suns is really, really incredible. And hey, speaking of good dialogue, that is a game with really, really great dialogue and really great characterizations, really great character moments.
00:44:37
Speaker
I really loved that game. and um But there's... If I'm stepping outside of comic books, because comic books kind of, that's and kind of not fair. but Sure, sure. um I would say there's a bunch of games that were based around and not not directly retelling, but sort of based around ah the story Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco.
00:45:11
Speaker
It's a book I really, really love. ah It's basically about a monk and his ah you know his new like ward who arrive at a monastery ah where a series of murders is taking place and the monk is trying to solve the murders.
00:45:29
Speaker
There are several games based around this and they're the best adaptation is a game called The Abbey of Crime, which is like a a very old... you yeah you have talked about this before briefly, but you have.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's a game called Abadella del Croyman. I'm not even going to try to pronounce it in its own in its own accent. ah But it was by OperaSoft, and it was made back in 1987 for, i don't even know what. Wow, this looks so interesting. The ZX Spectrum, the MSX, and MS-DOS. Yeah.
00:46:09
Speaker
And it's a very frustrating game to play. The maps are really hard. to follow but that almost adds to yeah that almost adds to the confusion that maybe you're supposed to feel sure attached to the story but it definite i definitely got i think ah for the technology of the time it was a really great adaptation isometric you can down isometric baby You can play it for free. You can play a remake of it for free oh wow on Steam. It's called Abbey of Crime Extensum.
00:46:45
Speaker
Is the remake less frustrating? No. Oh, okay. No. um But I think it really captures the spirit of ah the book. And therere another adaptation of that same book is called The Abbey.
00:47:02
Speaker
i don't know if you've heard of it. but I have not. It is by Crimson Cow. It was released in 2008. It's like one of those semi-3D adventure games from the dark period of adventure games. And it's horrible.
00:47:18
Speaker
Is it also called Murder in the Abbey? is it also called Murder in the Abbey? It could be. i think we're looking at the... Yes, it was inspired by...
00:47:29
Speaker
Del Crimin. ah Yes, it's also called Murder in the Abbey. It's got kind of like a cartoony style, like a cross between Broken Sword and Run Away. Yeah. And it's really bad.
00:47:42
Speaker
It was really bad. they should They probably shouldn't have even made it.
00:47:47
Speaker
Have you seen or played the ah the Daria adventure game or the Wayne's World adventure game? I've played a little bit of the Daria adventure game and I was like, this is terrible. i don't know that I can actually play this. Yeah.
00:48:00
Speaker
Yeah. It was one of the first ah adventure game video reviews that I did. it barely ran. And then talk about that's a disappointing one. I'm a very big Daria fan.
00:48:13
Speaker
And I feel like they could have done something with it, but they just totally dropped the ball. I do have a question for you about artistic property that shows up, kind of almost more in line with his email. Do you remember, think, in Dreams in the Witch House, was it Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?
00:48:32
Speaker
Is he the one that... It wasn't Dreams in the Witch House. It was um in English Haunting. English Haunting. And yeah suddenly you get to play as our Sir Arthur Coney. That's something where I'm like, what?
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, yeah that that's something where obviously they're bringing in another artistic property. And i don't I don't know if it worked.
00:48:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i I can't think of many. i mean, I'm sure there's so many. Look, I am very illiterate. I'm sure I get plenty of references in the games I play.
00:49:09
Speaker
Yeah, Matt's very smart. No, i there's... Games where a reference to a piece of culture just pops up are so, there's so many. i can't like yeah think of one off the top of my head. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's so many. I mean, LucasArts did it all the time because LucasArts. So you play any of the old games and there's going to be a Star Wars reference. It's going to be in there, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:49:36
Speaker
i there's I mean, there's cool stuff like that in all the Broken Sword games, too, but it's more like references to pieces of history that aren't well-known. Yeah.
00:49:47
Speaker
Esoteric bits of history. And like that's always super fun. And yeah the Gabriel Knight games do that really, really well. Yeah, that's true. That is true. ah Ooh, I want to replay that. It's been a minute since I played Gabriel Knight games. Yeah, same.
00:50:02
Speaker
I want to play a Beast Within. Oh my God, let's do Beast Within. Let's do Beast Within sometime in April. Okay. it's It's super gay and I love it. It's very gay. It really is. It's really good. werewolves, which may be inherently gay.
00:50:15
Speaker
I don't know. ah Yeah. what's What's gay or werewolves or vampires? Oh, man. i will let the listeners answer that. I think vampires are aggressively bisexual.
00:50:30
Speaker
I think they are too. And they're super dramatic. They're dramatic bisexuals. Yeah. they're Being a vampire is about as bisexual a thing as you could possibly be. Yeah. yeah No, I agree with that.
00:50:41
Speaker
Okay. Want to read the next email? Sure. This is from Katie. Hey, Katie. Growing up, I didn't play many adventure games, but my household was and still are huge Carmen Sandiego fans.
00:50:56
Speaker
With a new Carmen game being released this year. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. I would love to hear your favorite games from the franchise. And what would be your perfect Carmen Sandiego game?
Carmen Sandiego Memories
00:51:05
Speaker
I have answers to this because i loved those games when I was young.
00:51:11
Speaker
I'm going to sit back and let you answer because I don't, I don't know if I have answers. Okay, Matt doesn't have any answers. I remember playing Carmen Sandiego as a kid. I don't have very strong memories of each piece of it.
00:51:25
Speaker
I know if I'm playing a Carmen Sandiego game, I want to do research. i I want to look at maps. I want to make deductions. I want to get quizzed on history.
00:51:37
Speaker
And i don't want to just like play a story. I don't want to be Carmen Sandiego walking around and solving a mystery or whatever. So all that said, i want to hear ok the the rest of this answer is all you.
00:51:53
Speaker
Okay. Yay. All right. So ah like many people, I started on the original DOS version of ah Where in the World is Carbon San Diego. We had it in a classroom.
00:52:04
Speaker
And I think it was like our fourth grade classroom had a computer. And I was the only one who knew how to run DOS. So I often got the computer or I had to set it up for someone else.
00:52:16
Speaker
And i and i do I did like that game. But then i found Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego, which is also for DOS. That game has a vibe to it, man. It is one of the hardest games I've ever played because Where in Time is a different concept than ah like cities and geographic location. They're saying, you know, the civil war happened at this time, go to that time.
00:52:43
Speaker
And as a kid, I'm like, what? i don't i I don't have the education for this. I don't know. But that game had such a cool vibe. I remember booting it up and just loving... like you There was an elevator in the game and you can go to certain floors. So you can go to the personnel floor or you can go get coffee at the cafe before starting.
00:53:03
Speaker
but and So I thought that was a really cool vibe. I really liked it. Very detective. But my favorite... is Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego CD-ROM? I have a video on it where I'm gushing.
00:53:16
Speaker
It was so cool. I got it for my birthday from my Aunt Carol. We love Aunt Carol over here at the Save Your Game podcast. ah She's a bonus character in this podcast. Aunt Carol.
00:53:27
Speaker
And Carol, she got me this game it for my birthday. It was so good. Just the way you're set up as a detective following Carmen Sandiego. You get a cell phone, you get phone numbers and objectives. And um it's very educational in a fun way.
00:53:46
Speaker
loved this game as characters, which I loved. The original doesn't. they they I mean, they do have characters. They don't talk to you, but this is fully voiced. um your cell phone that you get in game. Matt, if you could do me a favor and yeah Google image search, where in the world is carbon San Diego windows.
00:54:05
Speaker
And I'm going to direct you to a screenshot. Okay. you know Did you do it? um I'm there. So you should see a screen with like a cell phone on the left. and like a notepad in the bottom right what the hell yeah okay yeah so the setup is super cool you get like this cool acme you know detective get up you get your cell phone your cell phone has a screen in it where you can talk to characters oh yes you can call crime net you can call for warrant oh my god oh
00:54:39
Speaker
I loved this game. It's so good. It was so good. And that's my favorite in the franchise. It's got a character named Dazzle Annie Nonger. That's one of the vile henchmen.
00:54:51
Speaker
Okay. True. um Hey, you know how you said you can't wait for the new Carmen Sandiego game to come out this year? Yeah. What would you say if I told you it came out two weeks ago?
00:55:03
Speaker
I would be Uncontrollable Screaming. Okay. um Well, then I won't tell you until we are off recording. Okay, cool. Thank you for that. No, I have a soft spot for those games for sure, but definitely Where in the World. There was also a Where in the USA in that same style. So with the you know with the cell phone setup with different characters, with a different chief,
00:55:29
Speaker
um maybe different Vile Henchmen 2? But yeah, they're great, fully voiced, super fun. If you can get them working, I highly recommend trying it out.
00:55:41
Speaker
Yeah, i think i I think at some point I need to dive into the whole Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego franchise and you know play some of the better games. I know there's some...
00:55:53
Speaker
There's some not good ones. That's true. i Like I said, Where in Time is not the best game. It's not it's very, very difficult. But man, all these games have such a vibe because you are you know technically a detective. You're on you're on a case.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah. So ah yeah, there's definitely juicy stories surrounding Carmen Sandiego being a ah copy of somebody else's game. but i Oh my God, really? Yes, yes, yes. I will let you...
00:56:21
Speaker
i let you go down that rabbit hole okay maybe maybe if we ever do an episode a Carmen Sandiego episode I'll bug you for those stories sure sure um okay yeah love those games love Carmen Sandiego that's awesome have anything else to say about Carmen Sandiego before we move on to another email no I think I think I gushed quite enough about that yeah Hell yeah. Okay. um ah So this is an email from Chris from Pittsburgh.
00:56:53
Speaker
oh okay. ah what would the ah Chris suggests this as a topic for an entire episode. Okay. maybe we'll think about it, but as we'll so we'll still answer it here yeah off off the top of our head.
Adventure Game Aspirations
00:57:08
Speaker
Sure. Chris suggests what would be your dream series to be made into an adventure game? Oh, man, that's a great question. ah especially Especially since I love franchise games, ah to be honest with you.
00:57:24
Speaker
ah Theirs would be hey Arnold. great answers And they always they picture side-strolling, cartoony, slightly pixelated gameplay of Arnold, Gerald, and Helga running around Hillwood helping various characters out and solving puzzles. I think that would be really, really fun.
00:57:41
Speaker
think that's so good. I think that also tracks with what my... general answer to this is it it changes but it's almost always some sort of Nicktoon yeah yeah I've also thought of hey Arnold I thought I've i've thought like Rugrats would be a great adventure game you know you're escaping the playpen you're just like yeah trying to solve ah problems in a world you don't quite understand like the Rugrats always were yeah yeah how about you
00:58:13
Speaker
i this is Yes, I'm definitely in line with that. because And I think we're both in line with that because one of our favorite games is Curse of Monkey Island, for you, Broken Sword. I think we have this natural inclination to take those cartoony games and cartoons we loved um as like as a young person and put that into a game.
00:58:34
Speaker
But I wonder what a monkeys adventure game would look like. Right. Right. Zany, silly. i The setting would be great, honestly. you know They live in this insane house ah in Laurel Canyon, and um they're always getting into shenanigans. And i just I think that as a franchise, that would be so interesting.
00:58:58
Speaker
I would also love, and this might be blasphemous, I would love a crow adventure game. I think there are a couple Crow games, but they're not good as far as I know. I would like more of a traditional adventure game.
00:59:12
Speaker
ah But that being that being said, I don't know if I would want it you know, cartoony or not because, yeah, I don't know. i don't know. Listen, I want a Crow adventure game based on the Crow from the 90s, the movie, not the comic.
00:59:30
Speaker
I, you know, i would love an X-Men anything. Yeah, that's true. So an X-Men adventure game where you have like a whole ah whole team and you can and you solve puzzles with their powers.
00:59:44
Speaker
That would be so much fun. But I'll say this. This past Halloween, I was reading a collection of m r James ghost stories.
00:59:54
Speaker
o huh And ah it was right around the time that we played in English Haunting and around the time that we played Dreams in the Witch House. Right. And it got me thinking about the idea of packing Two separate ideas, right?
01:00:11
Speaker
One is ah like, I'm trying to think of an example of a game like this, but ah a game where the world is built around a bunch of stories by the same person, right? Like, what if you were, ah so many of M.R. James characters are researching something.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah. and And with skepticism as something starts happening ah to them that they can't explain. Yeah. And so what if you were the guy from the ash tree and the events of a whistle and I'll come to you, my lad started happening to you.
01:00:46
Speaker
And then, you know, you had the mezzotint in your ah in your hotel room. And then ah it ends with the events of the lost of lost hearts happening to you. Like, what if all these stories of M.R. James were just kind of happening to you all at once like that? Yeah.
01:01:03
Speaker
That sort of thing would be so cool. or you have, say, a menu. like the Sort of like Dark Side Detective, right? You have a bunch of short stories and a menu of like chapters.
01:01:15
Speaker
And they're all like loosely connected. Yeah. But it's just like, oh, and now you play this short story. Now you play this short story as an adventure game. Now you play this short story as an adventure game. like I don't know. I was thinking about that the whole time I was reading that collection.
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of sounds similar to Callahan's Crosstime Saloon, where you are playing different stories
Cultural References in Games
01:01:37
Speaker
per chat. You haven't played that game, have you? No, we still have not.
01:01:40
Speaker
I think you would like it. um I'll add it to the list of birthday games. We got to beat- No, no! First and foremost, we have to beat Myst. Myst. this is ah Oh my god.
01:01:51
Speaker
yeah How are we possibly we're just not going to sleep, I guess. i don't know. I put the pages on the book.
01:01:58
Speaker
I did that. And so I'm good at this. Okay. Yes. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. ah let me let me Let me skip through a couple things. ah a Fan Mike says he'll be in Chicago in August and wants to take you up on your offer to buy lists any listener ah ah shot of Malort while they're Chicago.
01:02:24
Speaker
Oh, no! Um... that way Listen, I only give Malort to people I don't like. ok it's it's It's punishment for unsuspecting non-Chicagoans.
01:02:36
Speaker
However, if you do want to try it, I'm not going to stop you. It is a Chicago institution, um and most places have it.
01:02:47
Speaker
It's horrible. No, it's but it's bad. it has wormwood in it, okay? ah Michelle emailed us to tell us something interesting ah about the it ah origins of the term adventure game.
01:03:01
Speaker
Okay. Which apparently, according to ah David J. Prokopitz, this post doesn't have any citations. So I'm not sure and So i can't I can't vouch for its authenticityity the authenticity of this claim.
01:03:20
Speaker
But this claim is that the term event adventure game started basically as an adventure-like. Not based on this is a game where you go on an adventure.
01:03:31
Speaker
But a game that is similar to Colossal Cave Adventure, which was often abbreviated. And this is true. That's true. Yeah. oh They just called it adventure a lot of the time. A lot of times it was called and marketed as just adventure. yeah So you would have an adventure game, which is a game that is like Colossal Cave Adventure.
01:03:52
Speaker
Honestly, I would think that's very plausible, to be to be honest. I would too, especially because of what we learned about adventure game history in other countries.
01:04:03
Speaker
Sure. And how it spun off in different directions. Yes. Places. Oh, and somebody wrote us with a very long and very cool email ah with notes about ah they did a doctoral doctoral dissertation.
01:04:19
Speaker
Oh, on ancient Mediterranean magic. Well, cool. And so they had some insights about the excavation of Hobbes Barrow. Oh, cool.
01:04:30
Speaker
Yeah. So Abraxas, the entity in the game is referred to as Abraxas Rex or King Abraxas. Yep. Yep. um And the color purple has often been associated with kinship, kingship and authority for millennia. So that might be why the theme of purple in that game.
01:04:48
Speaker
Yep. That's true. Royalty. Let's see what else is based on their expertise. Yeah. They signed it with a scholarship is suffering and suffering is art. Abraxas is brace axe slash Abraxas was not an ancient pre-Roman God. He was actually a product of the later Roman Mediterranean cultural milieu, an attempt to lump together various different barbarian religious entities under one catch all umbrella.
01:05:17
Speaker
This is much like ah I'm speaking for me. At this point, this is much like what happened to the Norse gods. Yeah. There was not generally like there was not really a Norse pantheon and there was not a yeah unified Norse religion as we think of, you know, north Norse mythology today. It was later cultures. Yeah.
01:05:43
Speaker
Especially as that area was Christianizing. you Who were trying to find something. ah What's the word? Relatable. In these like barbarian religions. And so just combined a bunch of different stories into. Oh, youre all these are talking about a specific god. And his name is Thor.
01:06:03
Speaker
All these are talking about a specific god. And his name is Odino. And he's Thor's dad. right like yeah So that's interesting that Abraxas is a similar situation. Yeah. They say a bunch of other stuff that's really cool, but that's for us and not for you guys. Yeah, that's for us. I want to play Hobbs Barrow again.
01:06:23
Speaker
i know. So good. And I think that'll do it for emails today. All right. That's awesome. Wow. We had good answers.
01:06:36
Speaker
Go and us. Do you want to do a quick rapid fire recommendations? And if we've played these games sort of thing?
01:06:47
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. it hit me Hit me up. We'll do rapid fire. Yeah. Scarlet Hollow. No. Never played. Book Walker. No. Never played. Backfire Wall. No. No.
01:06:58
Speaker
Smile for me. What the hell are these? but Smile for me is a game I do know about Smile for Me. It's been on my Steam wish list for a long time, but I've never actually played it. It looks very... i might Wait, do I own it?
01:07:11
Speaker
Oh, looks cool. Yeah, i actually own it. I own it and I've never played it. It looks very creepy and interesting. Yeah, it does. I like the art style a whole lot. There's like mixed media art. in Yeah. yeah I've always thought it looked very cool. I don't know why I've never taken the time to play it.
01:07:28
Speaker
Yeah. um Road Warden. No. I've also never played it. I've heard of Road Warden. I think i've that's another one I have on my wish list. It is, you know where I first heard about it?
01:07:41
Speaker
where Where? When we were talking about RPG adventures. Oh. It was one of the ones that I found that people speak very highly of. it looks It actually looks really neat.
01:07:53
Speaker
It looks really cool. Yeah. um Legend of Kyrandia 2, Hand of Fate. ah Yes, I've played all the Kyrandia games. I have too. And I do think, I don't know what you think about this. I think Kyrandia 2 is the best of them.
01:08:08
Speaker
I think I agree with that. Yes, I think I agree. I am not a big fan of the Kyrandia games. I think they are very difficult and maybe even slightly derivative, but yeah they have their place.
01:08:23
Speaker
And I think I would agree that the second is good. Yeah, I feel the same way. um this this That's also what the email writer or Odd said, ah that they believe Legend of Chirindia 2 Hand of Fate is a beautiful, fun, and entertaining, but underrated gem. ah And it they suggest it's it's the best of the three. and i think that's a pretty po that's a pretty known opinion, too, as people gravitate towards Hand of Fate.
01:08:52
Speaker
um Okay, UFO 50. No. Do you know about this game? I don't. It was released last year, and it is a game that has 50 games in it.
01:09:03
Speaker
Oh, dear. And they are all styled after old after like old retro games. like they like As you go forward, it you're sort of moving through the history of video games.
01:09:17
Speaker
that's kind of cute. Yeah. And there is one in it that is a point and click game. Of course there is. They say it in the email. They say it in the email. Let me pull up the email real quick. Hit the email.
01:09:31
Speaker
Let me pull the email. Tom says Night Manor. Okay. So like a horror a horror game. Like a horror point and click. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool.
01:09:43
Speaker
but Yeah. I have not had the chance to play UFO 50. It looks really great. ah Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, the one that just came out this past year. No, but it it's on my radar. I've got a few friends playing it and and enjoying it for the most part.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, same. I think when Atomfall comes out, the British answer to Fallout, um I think I'm going to purchase Game Pass again, Xbox Game Pass, and play Indiana Jones of the Great Circle, and I'll play ah what was that Obsidian RPG that just came out that we talked about with Dave Gilbert? Avowed.
01:10:26
Speaker
About, yes, yes, yes. um Okay, Wayward Strand. No, but why does that sound familiar? Did we talk about this? No, it came out in 2022 by Ghost Pattern. It looks really, really good.
01:10:39
Speaker
Okay, I will look into it. Torrin's Passage. They know that you played it and didn't like it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not let's not jump to conclusions here.
01:10:51
Speaker
Go on, what do they say? Didn't really like it, but has not played it? i have not played it. I've played like ok a little tiny bit of it on original hardware the Adventure Game Fanfare. And I don't know.
01:11:04
Speaker
It seems fine. It's a rough one. You know, it's one of the later Sierra games. um Al Lowe, you know, wrote for that one. I, I, there, there are things I like about it, but yes, in the end, I was just like, well, here it is. i thought I gave it a pretty fair review on, or comedic review, at least.
01:11:24
Speaker
I think I call it like the hidden halite as opposed to like ah a gem or a diamond. see from sierra's catalog that's really good i i do have a memory i would love to share and that is ah i had gotten the king's quest collection when i was young and this is before the internet had a lot of walkthroughs on it but what we did have was a hint line the sierra hint line if you want to spend all your money or well all your parents money And that headline actually said, when you call it, the very first thing they always said was, for Torrin's Passage, dial this. Like, right away. That's the first thing you heard. So they were just clearly trying to ah to advertise Torrin's Passage at the time. Interesting. Like a subliminal kind of advertisement. Like, like oh, so many people are calling about Torrin's Passage. Yeah. the Dedicated. Yeah.
01:12:21
Speaker
Yeah. or Or also, you know, it's trying to take up your time because it's per minute.
01:12:28
Speaker
Sierra also had a write-in hint system where you could write and you would get a letter back from a character. i don't know if anyone knew that. I wish I still kept mine.
01:12:39
Speaker
I asked for a hint in King's Quest 7 and I got a letter back from, quote, Valanice. And I'm like, oh, I wish I still had that. know if anybody did that, but I thought that was super cool.
01:12:51
Speaker
ah How about the Star Trek adventure games? 25th Anniversary, Judgment Rites, and Next Generation of Final Unity. Yeah, I played the 25th Anniversary. It's a very solid adventure game.
01:13:02
Speaker
I'm not the biggest Star Trek person. liked the Next Generation ah just fine. And I liked, oh God, the next one after Next Generation. I don't know. I've i've like never watched Star Trek.
01:13:17
Speaker
ah Yeah, no, very, very solid adventure game. But what does it remind me of? Space Quest, which is ironic because Space Quest is a you know parody of all those things.
01:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. Heaven's Vault. No, but I know you have. ah Yeah, I just played it. It's funny, people wrote in about Heaven's Fault. And yeah, i was I just finished it. And I had some conflicting views about it. So you can check out, I think, two episodes ago, I talk about it. And then our RPG episode, I talk about it.
01:13:48
Speaker
Yeah. Blazing Dragons. Oh, gosh. i haven't I haven't thought about that game in a very long time. my god. You've played this game. Yeah, only like very briefly.
01:14:01
Speaker
Wow. I haven't thought about it in ah so long. Holy shit. I think it has some interesting voice acting in it. i've I've never heard of this.
01:14:13
Speaker
It looks very interesting. Yeah, it looked really crazy. And it was for PlayStation? Yes, it's for PlayStation. That's wild. Yeah, it has voices by Cheech Marin.
01:14:25
Speaker
Isn't that amazing? Oh my god, you like unlocked a very strange memory for me, writer. It was also an animated television series before that, huh? Oh, that I didn't know.
01:14:37
Speaker
Created by Terry Jones and Gavin Scott. Pentiment. No. ah Yes, it's really good. um It also shares some themes in common with ah Name of the Rose.
01:14:52
Speaker
So, I don't know. Weird synchronicity in this episode. We're talking about Pendiment. Pendiment is really good. It's by Obsidian Games and it is... i guess it's I guess we should have talked about it in that episode because technically an RPG.
01:15:06
Speaker
we've You've spoken about it very briefly. So i know i do know about it. And it looks cool. It looks really interesting. Yeah, it would take too long to try and start explaining Pentiment here. Like, i don't yeah think they can give a concise little.
01:15:20
Speaker
ah But yeah, Hypnospace Outlaw, which I feel like gets we get asked about every single time. Oh, really? Q&A episode. Yeah. That game stressed me out.
01:15:31
Speaker
ah fully understand why people like that game. There is a nostalgic element to it. There is an abstract, weird element. It gets very surreal. i I found it stressful, so I never finished it.
01:15:46
Speaker
It looks cool. I think i own it. um I've never played it. yeah I will. um yeah you should You should play it. you should play it ah definitely did Definitely one day I will play it.
01:15:59
Speaker
Okay, we got just got a couple more here. Kentucky Route Zero. No. I've played like the first chapter and I liked it. I don't know what, why it didn't compel me to go back, but I think if I ever do, I will really, really enjoy it.
01:16:13
Speaker
Silent Hill 2.
Cat Cafe Manager Game
01:16:16
Speaker
Oh, those games. No, and no, no, no. And no, you kidding me? No. um And Cat Cafe Manager.
01:16:26
Speaker
Not yet, boy, do I want to. I'm telling you, um to run a cat cafe. ah Did you know that this game existed before I just said those
Closing and Listener Engagement
01:16:36
Speaker
words? Yes. Yes, I do ok ok ok i did. Yeah, did. It's kind of been on my radar every now and then. I'll see it on Steam and be like, cat cafe manager. That's it. That's that's it for Q&A and that's it for our ah recommendations. Wow.
01:16:51
Speaker
All right. Well, that is our episode, Roses. it was It was fun. But now we have to go. Now we have to go. We have to go goodbye.
01:17:02
Speaker
I have to to go out my teapot. I have to... go wash out my teapot
01:17:08
Speaker
i have to ah I got nothing to do. Anyway, i knew what thank thanks for listening. We're in independent podcast, which means the best thing that you can do if you want to support us is just share and review and like and...
01:17:30
Speaker
Subscribe? Get the word out. Subscribe. Get us a, you know, that's honestly, if you like this podcast you want to keep going forever and ever and ever, that is the number one way you can make that happen.
01:17:44
Speaker
Well, I'm dying at age 75 specifically, so it's not going to go forever. i'm afraid I'll live till 230. two hundred and thirty So by the time... So by the time you're 75, I'm sure the two of us can find a replacement co-host for the next 160 years.
01:18:03
Speaker
ah ah sixty years Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. i will i will kind of tease a little bit that we're going to be having some great guests up and coming on these next few episodes. So please stay tuned and tune in to that.
01:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, our next two episodes. people are goingnna People are going to throw their iPods. or That's how people listen to podcasts on iPods. On iPods. So they're going to see it pop up on their iPod. They're going throw it across the room in disbelief.
01:18:36
Speaker
And they're to be like like, shit, I need that. Oops, I got to listen to that. Gingerly pick it up. It's broken and now they can't listen to it. Now they got to go to the Apple store. Oh, nobody wants that.
01:18:47
Speaker
the apple store oh nobody wants that And say, just want to listen to my very good podcast. My very good podcast. And you find us on Instagram, Save your Game Podcast. Cast, yes.
01:19:01
Speaker
Every time! Every time! And email us at Mattaroses at gmail.com. That all being said, i just want to tell you.
Reflecting on Podcast as Art
01:19:11
Speaker
Yeah. It just popped in my head.
01:19:14
Speaker
was looking into my tea leaves. And... I think this might be some sort of sign because thiss this sentence just popped into my head and I wonder what you think about it. It is podcast is art.
01:19:27
Speaker
I agree. And do you want to know why i agree? No. Yeah. Oh, wait. Yes. Because art is suffer.