Transcript
Speaker: I'm nervous. Why? It's just for the past week, I've just been nervous every day. And I keep checking my phone and I keep checking my email. I keep making sure my phone's not like turned on, like do not disturb or something.
Speaker: ah Is it because you are also in a relationship with Michael's, the arts and crafts store that keeps texting me about deals? Is that why you're nervous? No, no, no, okay no, no.
Speaker: I'm nervous for the obvious reasons. It's weird to me that you would be confused why I'm nervous. I'm nervous for the obvious reasons. Did you like eat something bad? What? No.
Speaker: I'm just, I'm waiting for the call. i don't Again, I don't know if it's going to be a call or an email or a text. A text would feel really informal, but like, I don't know where it's coming. Maybe would they would send a letter, wouldn't they?
Speaker: ah Yes. Yes, they would. Yeah, I think they would. It's just, it's been how many days since the Pope died? And I just don't know.
Speaker: If they're considering me, I want to know that. Of course. I want to know that. And I want to be ready. Matt. Yeah. I just want to intervene a little. of Yeah. You're an atheist. Yeah.
Speaker: They're not going to choose you. Ever. Well, there's, i mean. Matt, ever. I know they're looking for a shake. I know, like, the Catholic Church has have been looking for shake-up. You know, like, a lot has been, ah you know, they've been trying to, you know, their membership has been down. They've been trying to pull people in, right? Their membership's been down.
Speaker: Their membership's been going down for decades, and they need to. Okay, Matt. They need to raise their profile in the world. Why not me? I'm nice. I'm charming.
Speaker: could be Pope. Okay, sell me on. What would you bring to the Popehood? Okay, thank you. I'm so glad you asked. And this will be good practice for when. And again, i also, if there might be i I might need to pause this podcast, right? And if if the call comes in.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: lets Call your personal cell phone. Yeah. Yes. So if, uh, what else would they do? Call me at work. Oh shit. Should I work? Okay. ah You should warn your boss.
Speaker: Drive me crazy. if If I think too much about it. Okay. But let's practice. What would i bring to the Pope hood? Number one, new hat. Oh. We've had the same Popat. That's number one, is it?
Speaker: We've had the same Popat for a long time. First, I was thinking maybe I'd just wear it backwards, but no, I think we need to update it. I think we need The way... You know how people get really into collecting sneakers these days?
Speaker: We could get designers to design new types of Popat sort of based on like ah what's popular in sneaker brands. Okay. So like a Versace Pope hat.
Speaker: Yeah. Or just Michael Jordan or something. So that's number one. Number two. ah Number two is about the Vatican itself. Water park.
Speaker: People think, why should I go to this place? It looks boring. It looks boring. There's all these old buildings, old men walking around. It's crowded. Why do I want to go to the va Vatican?
Speaker: We put a big pool. Uh-huh. Around the, the what what do they call the biggest, church the big church in the middle of the Vatican? yeah The big church? I don't know. Yeah. They put a big pool around that and then have a bunch of water slides going all around it.
Speaker: So you want to essentially ruin one of the oldest parts of the country decked out in opulence and beauty. you want to put water in it? Imagine water slide going between a giant water slide going between St. Peter's Basilica and the Sistine Chapel like all the way.
Speaker: i thought you were going to say this is terrible. yeah I thought you were going to say like a giant statue of Jesus and the water's like going between his legs. I don't know why I thought that. That's another thing we should start thinking of. Is Jesus really bringing him in these days?
Speaker: Have you considered Superman?
Speaker: everybody. Welcome to Save Your Game. It's me, the next Pope, Matt Aukamp, with me, my loyal subject, ah pushing up roses. How's it going, roses?
Speaker: Hi, everything's good. um i You know, I got my fingers crossed for you that the email, I hope you gave them the right email. You didn't give them the Save Your Game email, did you? Yeah, mattroses at gmail.com. Oh, my God. What? I'm going to be part of this.
Speaker: We'll get like a million email, like press emails about adventure games and then one from the Vatican. They'll send us game codes. They'll send us game codes like Christ Fighter or something. Bible Man.
Speaker: I think Bible Man actually is a gay real game. Yeah. you know there's goingnna You know there's so many. There's probably a bunch of... Oh, and I bet they're good, too. There's probably a bunch of hidden object Bible story games.
Speaker: They might actually be pretty good. Yeah, exactly. Because that's the nature of hidden object games in general. So take a really dramatic story, right? Put it in a hidden object game.
Speaker: It's probably pretty good. I think if they don't have Bible story hidden object games, they should make them. But then again... Every time. There's very little like ah Christian content that ends up being good. right like Christian rock bands are almost exclusively bad. Christian ah cartoons, almost exclusively bad. They're bad for different reasons. so like i I reviewed a, quote, faith-based movie called like Socks, the Magical Talking Dog a couple years ago.
Speaker: what makes it faith i'm just Guess what makes it faith-based?
Speaker: ah so and I have no idea. No. There's one part in the movie, literally one scene, maybe 60 seconds, where some kids pray. And they lay that whole movie faith-based movie.
Speaker: Everything else was a magical talking dog. That was horrible. Yeah. you Y'all, you want something horrible to walk watch? Socks the Mag... I think it's called the Magical Talking Talk.
Speaker: Wow. Or if you don't even want a deal, you can just watch my video on it. There was... ah me and my ex watched a Was it the one you... Did you do um you did a... You did a ah video on it. That Christmas...
Speaker: um The angel one? No, it was like a it was like a ah hot rock star came to town. and Oh, that disaster. yeah And that had a had a pro like two prolonged scenes where it was like, all you need to do is turn to God.
Speaker: Yeah. And they're like, yeah, faith-based. This is definitely faith-based. The whole thing all rest of the movie was like, I don't... Go watch Roses' video. It's insane. It's the worst.
Speaker: yeah The Godfather had some allusions to religion. Is that a faith-based movie? No! Come on, people. yeah that i I almost forgot I even reviewed that because it was such a bad movie. I can't believe you watched it.
Speaker: It's bad. i got that'll be my That'll be my other pitch as the Pope. Get Get religion out of Catholicism. Oh, dear.
Speaker: Get the church out of the Catholic church. Put a pool in there. Get a better hat, even though I kind of like the hat. i i I like the hat. I just think it could be better.
Speaker: Roses, how have you been? I've been good. i recently got back from a birthday trip to Mexico City. it was amazing.
Speaker: I haven't, you know what, we haven't really talked. I haven't told you about a lot of that stuff. So we'll have to talk about it maybe off recording. Well, why don't you tell me some of the the highlights yeah on recording and we'll have a conversation off.
Speaker: So we went on an all day excursion, which means you get on a bus. The bus has a bathroom. It's a long time. So you get on this tour. It's a tour bus. You get on this tour bus and you hit three major spots.
Speaker: yeah One is in Mexico City and the others are outside of it. So we started in Zocalo Square where these amazing like pyramids were, these amazing ruins, this really old church that people still use.
Speaker: yeah That blows my mind. And I'm going to tell you why. Because the next stop was um the Shrine of Guadalupe. And that is – Oh, wow.
Speaker: And it's it's um it's incredible. First of all, it's incredible. um There's you know this little small chapel that was built on a hill. um And there's a story that goes along with it. I'm going to retell it now. But you can see the whole city of Mexico City from the top of that hill.
Speaker: It is a trek to get up there. it is – it's like a bajillion stairs. I'm just like – ah The guy who in the story, the guy's name is like Juan Diego, and he's like told to build a shrine to Lady Guadalupe. So he does it on this hill and it makes it sound like a small hill.
Speaker: No, it took forever to get up this hill, but I did it. Okay. I did it. And the main church, which is gorgeous, people still use that for mass. And I was just thinking, like, oh it's so in interesting. it's It's a weird conversation, maybe a little problematic even, I think, to have this amazing, profound church.
Speaker: wris like But through it as, like, mass is happening. And like there's vendors selling stuff. And I'm like, man, where's the line? And like these these people, are so they're very serious about attending mass. And you got people like me who's just farting around looking at all the amazing art, you know?
Speaker: As a kid who was raised Catholic, I'm sure not everybody there is serious about it. Like there's one kid who who snuck his action figures in under his shirt. Oh, yeah. And he's like hiding under the pews, not yeah playing playing X-Men or something. no that's me. That's me as a kid going up to the fucking candles and like being like, wow, look at these beautiful candles.
Speaker: um Something interesting is that I had to pay to use the toilet. And you have to pay for toilet paper at the shrine of Guadalupe. Huh. So if you're if you don't have enough cash on you.
Speaker: You can't use the bathroom then. Well, if you what if you had enough cash to get into the bathroom you didn't know you had to pay for the toilet paper? You could have some real yucky people. Yeah, that's what happened to me, actually.
Speaker: That's exactly what happened to me. Luckily for me, I always carry a bunch of stuff in my purse. so i didn't. okay But I was like kind of freaking out a little bit at first before I went into like my purse and like my pockets because I'm on vacation. So I am carrying a lot of stuff with me.
Speaker: But I'm like, nobody told And like i I talked to one of the like one of the English speakers who worked there. I'm like, I did not know you had to pay for toilet paper. and She's like, welcome to Mexico.
Speaker: ah you think ah hope You'd hope they'd at least have like a. Like a like a Venmo. yeah Yeah, no, definitely not yet to pay in cash. Pay in pesos. Venmo a certain account and then the toilet paper starts unraveling.
Speaker: And then the last stop, which was my favorite stop, was Teotihuacan. Teotihuacan? I'm not quite sure. Everyone pronounces it differently. pronounce it Teotihuacan.
Speaker: Teotihuacan. tail tablecon Oh my God. Best excursion I've ever had. i would love to visit Teotihuacan. I'm getting getting tangled up when I try to say it.
Speaker: Teotihuacan. Teotihuacan. Yeah. it's It's artsy. It's beautiful. it's a ma It's unfathomable to think about.
Speaker: ah yeah And ah we I first went to the... They have like a little village. That's kind of connected before you go see like the pyramids or the they're not really pyramids, are they? Let's call them temples, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah. um Before you see that, you go to this little village and you can have like a tequila tasting like a, you know, ah Mexican like drink tasting and get food there.
Speaker: And you can get all kinds of obsidian, which I did because it's all like hand carved. They did, you know, a little, they did a little um demonstration. I thought it was so cool. and then you hop back on the bus, yeah go to the pyramids and it's the most incredible thing you've ever seen in your life.
Speaker: I saw the, you know, the temple of the sun and the temple of the moon, um the altar for like sacrificial purposes, It's just so old and amazing, amazing to think about. And so that inspired me to go to the Museum of Anthropology, which if you've ever been to Mexico City, that's a must.
Speaker: It would have been a must for me either way, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a must. It is it was so incredible. um Just so much ceramics, Matt.
Speaker: Because that's one of the like that's one of the most permanent oldest forms of art um that, you know, archaeologists find. And it's just incredible. It's so incredible. And just these giant slabs and of stone and sculptures.
Speaker: ah it was so You would like it. You would love it, actually, I think. And then I wrapped up. Sorry. ah One more highlight. And then I leave and then i went to.
Speaker: So I didn't get to see the Frida house slash museum. I didn't realize it booked up so quickly. Like I looked two weeks in advance. That's not enough.
Speaker: You need to book like almost months in advance. But I did go to the Museum of Modern Art where they had, you know, a couple Frida Kahlo's on display and Diego Rivera's.
Speaker: And it was just, it's as it's such a cute museum. I love it. Although the Museum of Anthropology, even though I live near like museum campus in Chicago, the Museum of Anthropology is the most impressive museum I've ever been to.
Speaker: It's incredible.
Speaker: And those were my highlights. You may talk about. I mean, no, it sounds incredible. I mean, i think Teotihuacan is amazing to me because it is a, it was like a, I mean, there was a lot of these in i both of the in in all of the Americas, we're these like metropolises, these full, you know, like full on cities.
Speaker: yeah um And we, you know, we have been taught to look at pre-Columbian times. as if it was just a bunch of people in tents all over the place or wandering through the woods in loincloths or something. No, there was like full on civilizations with massive roads in between them and korea yeah giant trading networks.
Speaker: And, ah you know, it was just cities that looked a little different than they looked in Europe and languages that sounded different than they were in Europe and art forms that look like it was as civil as civilized.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely. as the The art that that archaeologists have dug up is incredible. It's incredible. It's so cool. it's so inspiring. i use i just love it. I love the culture.
Speaker: i love the weather. loved everything. I knew a little bit of Spanish because I've been practicing with Duolingo. And it's even though I can't keep up conversationally it does help it does help because i can read signs i can read menus that's insanely important um and i can talk to the uber drivers which is really important so yeah i had a real nice time at a good day I love i love ah love traveling, and i hope my next trip is to Philly, actually, to get a tattoo.
Speaker: Because I already paid the deposit for it. I just have to make the appointment. um But I want to wait until the weather is really like perfect. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: i i I took over this entire conversation. Matt, how are you doing? Are you playing anything? are you ah Do miss Chicago? you miss Chicago pizza?
Speaker: um Chicago pizza seems like a thing i should do once every couple months at most. It sits real heavy in the stomach. Honestly, that's way more frequent than anyone's ever said. So I'm like, oh, really?
Speaker: You want it again?
Speaker: So I'll tell you a game I played recently. i played yeah Promise Mascot Agency. You mentioned that that was a demo, right? For NextFest? ah Yes. And i keep I keep opening it on Steam and it keeps playing so loud. If if if there's been bleed through from my headphones, that's that's what that is. So it's by Kaizen Gameworks. They did Paradise Killer, which I absolutely loved.
Speaker: And then Promise Mascot Agency just came out. ah It might have come out. this I think it came out the same day as Blueprints. um so at April 10th. It came out April 10th. Yeah.
Speaker: So I just played it this past week, finally. And, i you know, it's it's very cute. I see that.
Speaker: It's very funny. um
Speaker: It wears out its welcome. ah you You are basically, so you're basically a car. You are a car. um you know That's the whole way you get around the world is by driving.
Speaker: um and you And you are a an ex-Yakuza ah named the Janitor who ah just lost his clan a ton of money and is exiled to this cursed village.
Speaker: ah to restart their mascot agency. Now, this is a world where mascots are real beings. Where they're real living things that are matt that are like... ah there's a There's a guy that's a big tofu who's constantly crying.
Speaker: There's a... There Your partner, your sidekick is a severed pinky nail. A severed pinky with a nail on it. There's like a...
Speaker: little kitty cats with strawberries on their heads. There's like, you know, weird, weird mascots. Yeah. I like the tofu. The tofu is cool.
Speaker: The tofu is great. He's like the first mascot you hire. So you get sent to this, this small town that is, has a curse on it that any Yakuza that enter it will die a slow, painful death.
Speaker: So you know you're going to die by entering this town, but this is your penance is you must rebuild this mascot agency, um which, you know, basically...
Speaker: a signs and hires out mascots to various events to raise the money that you lost before you die or before your boss gets killed like eventually there's like a meter of like you have to send enough money back so that she doesn't get killed um now you the town you're in has been systematically sort of impoverished by a corrupt administration.
Speaker: And so you're sort of trying to undermine the administration by building the town back up, by doing favors for people in the town, um by reopening all these businesses and then providing the mascots there for their various events.
Speaker: It sounds cute. So you're raising money and you're negotiating contracts and also you're driving around this town like collecting things. There's a lot of collectibles and upgrades for your your car.
Speaker: um And again, yes, it's very cute and it starts out very cute. It starts like this It's like ah secretly a cozy game, right? Like it comes off really loud ah and really ridiculous and hilarious, but mostly you're driving around and managing, doing like this business management.
Speaker: Yeah. Sim. ah um So, and, and having these like scenes, you know, like ah character development scenes with your various new mascot friends and,
Speaker: All the while, there's a plot going on in the background where you're trying to unravel the corruption of the city and try and figure out what this curse actually Mm-hmm. So it's got like a pretty serious plot four ah for an aesthetic that is so goofy.
Speaker: Yes. There's a serious plot that is told very goofily. And the, yes, the aesthetic's very goofy. The moment to moment is very goofy. But again, after a while, once you've collected all your mascots, you've gotten through all their...
Speaker: you know they're Each of them have three story beats that you unlock the more you send them on jobs. um There's still a lot of story left and a lot of money you have to raise. And a lot of collectibles that are scattered variously throughout the the sort of large world map.
Speaker: And it sort of loses steam. Okay. I mean, I can see a game like this being maybe... Like overstimulating in a way? I think at the beginning it's overstimulating.
Speaker: And then I think it settles into something very cozy. Okay. And then I think it slows down into something that yeah is is kind of feels more like a chore. so i feel like that is the that is a risk of being a cozy game.
Speaker: i don't know if you agree or not. but it I think so. Yeah, even I feel that way a little bit about Stardew. And I love that game. We both really love that game. But it does, you know, once you've reached a certain point, quote, once you've finished it it's going to lose steam. Cozy games are going to lose steam over time. That's what I think.
Speaker: it's It's when a I think it's when a game has a ah i think it's when a game has a certain goal that extends far beyond all the other goals.
Speaker: yeah Because by then, like, again, in this game, I've gotten all the mascots, I've gotten all my upgrades, I've gotten all the collectibles. Now I'm just managing this mascot agency until I get enough money to pay off the debt and progress the story.
Speaker: And at this point, it's kind of just like, how many hours is that going to be? how many i got I wish that I had saved some of the collecting. I wish that I had not gotten all the mascots yet. But it felt so natural to knock those things off my to-do list as they came up.
Speaker: um So guess so i just I guess I wish there there were more. I wish... ah That there were more tasks and mechanics that opened up, say, halfway through the story.
Speaker: Yeah. So it would make me want to finish. Because I'm at 21 hours now, and I don't think I've been having fun for the past five. Oh, no. That's, yeah just again, just a chore then. Yes, exactly. And I want to see how the story ends, so I'll probably finish it. But, yeah, I think I would...
Speaker: If you get 15 good hours out of a game, it was probably worth your time and probably worth your money. So, like, i don't want to say this is a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. i just it does kind of fail to stick the landing, I think.
Speaker: OK, that's fair. I'm going to look at I'm going to play a little bit just for the tofu. yeah yeah i don't know why I don't know why that's so novel to me, but it is.
Speaker: I mean, there are laugh out loud funny moments of this game. And some of these, and the, ah the ah what do you call them? The mascots are hilarious. When you send them on a job, there's a percentage chance that they'll get into trouble.
Speaker: And you have to, you have to. go to their it's just a button prompt but you go to the uh their job and you see what's uh what's gotten them into trouble and you you collect these cards and upgrade these cards throughout the game uh that are called mascot heroes that will come and save your mascots if they get in trouble so one for for example like the tofu got stuck in a door that was slightly too small. So then it'll, it'll be like a combat thing and it'll be like um tofu versus slightly too small door.
Speaker: He's tofu. He can just squish. Right. ah So then you have to, yeah, then you have to use mascot heroes to defeat, to take out the doors, take down the doors, health bar then defeat the door in order to get paid for the job. So there's funny shit throughout the game.
Speaker: That's like that. um Again, there's a lot that's really good about this game. I just wish that the second half, I wish there was something to reinvigorate you as you start to get tired of it.
Speaker: That's fair. Yeah, I mean, still, it sounds very unique. It is. I'll say that. Yes, it is definitely unique. um I'm glad it exists, and I'm glad I played it.
Speaker: Good. Anything to get me to stop playing Blueprints, which it has not. lord. I still just- Which it has not? Mm-hmm. Oh my god. Now I've been trying to do the the last bits of Blueprints or like these speed run things where like there are trophies for- There are in-game trophies for beating- ah Reaching room 46 in an hour ah reaching room 46- Oh, cool. In a one in-game day. Yeah. And these things are so-
Speaker: So hard. Yeah, I imagine. That's when the RNG starts actually being a problem. whereas yeah Whereas I think a lot of people complain about the RNG not realizing that, you know, every single room you enter, there's more for you to do, whether you've realized it or not. There's more for you to learn. And so every room is an opportunity, even if it's not the room that you were expecting or hoping for.
Speaker: Right. Yeah, but not if you're speed running it. But not if you... Exactly, exactly. And and there's like seven rooms that you need to get. And at least three of them have to be in a specific order.
Speaker: And... Okay. It's like, well, that didn't happen. So granted, there are like three or... ive I have thought of like three different paths.
Speaker: to get to room 46 in a single day but they all require some very specific things and it's so hard and it's so hard and I just want to give up but I can't because I'm addicted oh anyway un that no that note Matt's addicted all right uh do I have love do I have to intervene
Speaker: We'll see. We'll see. We'll find. We'll find out. Let's. I'm going to get a group. Let's give me another week. Okay. And we'll see. Sounds like an out what an addict would say. We'll see how my life has progressed in the next week.
Speaker: And if it is. I'm going to all our friends together. I'm going to get Francisco and Meredith and Dave Gilbert and Alistair. We're all going to throw an intervention. a blueprints intervention. And I'll be like, wait, just watch me play it. And then it'll turn into everybody playing Blueprints.
Speaker: Guys, no. I'll be like the only one. I'll be like, no, you can't do this. And then you'll start playing it because you can't resist. I know. And then I'll be like, let's order a pizza. And it'll just turn into a game night.
Speaker: Roses, what are we talking about today? So today, very randomly, we decided to talk about Zelda. Yes.
Speaker: The Zelda. The Zelda. I love that guy. yeah No. yeah So we are going to, I assume, we're going to take a quick break here because we have been rambling.
Speaker: so why don't you throw Chansey Goldarino? oh And we'll come back and talk about the boy so
Speaker: everyone, welcome back to Save Your Game. i am one of your co-hosts. One of your co-hosts. Does make sense? Yes, you are co-hosts. I can say that right? Yes! Okay, you'll find that. That's exactly it.
Speaker: I want to say, I'm one of your co-hosts. I'm pushing up roses with me, as usual, Matt Aukamp. Hey, Matt. Hey, I'm one of your co-hosts. I'm one of your co-hosts.
Speaker: That's it. I only have one. There's only two co-hosts here, just to be clear. Yeah, there's two co-hosts. We're one of where're each one of your co-hosts. Sometimes there's three, depending on if we have a guest.
Speaker: But are they really hosts? they're guests. They're lower status. Lower. um What are we talking about today? We are going to be talking about the Legend of Zelda games because we love them and because they are action-adventure games.
Speaker: What's that? In my opinion, allegedly. ah What's that? What's the Zelda games? Well, Matt, I did not prepare the answer for that.
Speaker: It's a series of games where you play a little boy named Zelda and he's trying to
Speaker: He's trying to get a cool... He's usually trying to get a cooler hat and cooler... What wrong with you? Why do you like hats so much? Do you not try to get a cooler hat in just about every Zelda game?
Speaker: No, you do, for sure. yeah You definitely do. i No, they're... Yeah, they're... They're they're a strange type of game because i don't know... ah
Speaker: They're a little hard to classify. um They're definitely action because you fight. Yes, there's combat. They're different definitely adventure because there's exploration and
Speaker: think Heavy narrative and puzzles that... Let me say this. Let me say this. Yeah. When I found Ocarina of Time, that was the first Zelda game I played. That was the first type of whatever this genre is we're trying to explain. That's the first one of this kind that I played. And the reason I liked it and held on to it so much is because I liked adventure games.
Speaker: All I had played... were adventure games and platformers you know on my my Genesis or my Super Nintendo. So I do consider these very adventure game heavy because I don't think I would have liked it as much as that as a young person who'd only played adventure games.
Speaker: I wouldn't have gravitated towards it. So yeah, I think it falls to me into that like grand adventure thing because in each game, you are on a journey, my friends. Yeah.
Speaker: I think that word puzzle, right? Yeah. ah We use it very broadly. We do. When talk about adventure games. um We use it to basically mean any impediment to progress that you for what that you that you push through by thinking rather than fighting.
Speaker: but Right. um Whereas Zeldas are more like a holistic, like the the, there's another, you know, definition of puzzle that like jigsaw puzzles ah fit into and like riddles. I'll explain
Speaker: If you take something that is logical or fits together coherently and you break it up or remove something in such a way that it becomes incoherent or illogical.
Speaker: And your goal is to restore that logic to it in a puzzle that is a picture that doesn't make sense doesn't look like a picture when it's broken up into jigsaw puzzle pieces but once you start putting them together so suddenly makes sense a a riddle right is a sentence or a story that is missing one key piece of context and once you fit that key piece of context in the thing is coherent again um
Speaker: Zelda is like this game where there's a jumble of things scattered about the map and each one fits into a particular place.
Speaker: as you ah As you find the right item or the right ability. um Sort of like how a Metroidvania is only in in in a less slightly less linear way.
Speaker: So that's that's how I say puzzles happen in Zelda. Both on the macro, which that happens across the whole world. Right. And then on the micro, where each dungeon is in and of itself a little puzzle.
Speaker: Yeah, the dungeons, huge part of these games, obviously. um Yes, they are puzzles in and of themselves. that they Those fit into me, like the more riddle, the more, um I guess you could call logical puzzles. But to me, there's also like inventory puzzles. There's like fetch quests in these games. So I'm kind of thinking of those smaller puzzles where you're you're talking to like townsfolk that want like a certain thing. And you may or may not have to do these.
Speaker: I think... I want to do everything in a Zelda game because they're that they're that fun. um But yeah, I just keep thinking back of Ocarina and all of the like the weird little fetch quests. I mean, all the Zelda games, they have those quirks, right? They're quirky.
Speaker: They've got these quirky, ah sometimes zany elements to them. And you find yourself like, oh, I have to collect a bunch of crickets for this guy. Like, what kind of puzzle is this?
Speaker: But yeah, I love the Zelda games for those like little character driven quests. I don't know if we we're going to call them like adventure game puzzles or inventory object puzzles, but they're definitely quests.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, there are certain I think there are certain situations in Zelda that you would call ah that that you would call fetch quest. You have to get something from somebody to bring it back to somebody else to get something to bring to somebody else.
Speaker: But then Zelda also has a lot of um ah
Speaker: challenges and minigames as well, right? Where there are... it is it is there are
Speaker: little bonus side quests that are skill based. I remember there's one, i think is, is it in, um, I can't remember if it's in Ocarina of time or Majora's mask, but there's one where you have to wait for a i think it's like 10 seconds exactly.
Speaker: And then press a button. So this is in Majora's mask. It's called mental training and it's, uh, the when you're with uh it's a quest you get from the postman and the the postman charges like two rupees for it but it is like he says imagine i'm going to imagine yourself running for 10 seconds mm-hmm
Speaker: There will be an invisible like there's an invisible clock that starts. You press, I think, like the A button or something after what you believe to be exactly 10 seconds. ah And if it's 9.99, lose. Wow. 10.02, lose.
Speaker: you wow ten point o two you lose That's one of those those Zelda quirks that I was kind of mentioning. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's you know so that is a skill-based challenge. it's not That's not a puzzle. That's not a yeah you know that's not a fetch quest. that is just a That is just a challenge. And then there's obviously other ones where it's like, oh, launch these you know launch these bombs at these things in a certain amount time or whatever.
Speaker: Oh, man, they're just some of the funnest, funnest games I've ever played. so usually a fishing game. There's usually a race. I love fishing.
Speaker: and There's usually some sort of games. I don't actually like fishing. There's usually some sort of archery challenge. I love those two. have very like visceral memories of being in... um What's the main... So let's explain something real quick. A, you're not playing a boy named Zelda. You're playing now a little boy named Zelda and he's an elf.
Speaker: His name is Link. he's a Well, he's kind of like a leprechaun. I'd say he's more of a leprechaun and he collects gold. So he's ah a leprechaun. He's like not an elf also. Yeah, I think he's a little leprechaun elf named Zelda, and he's a boy who's really brave.
Speaker: He's very strong, too. He's fast runner. He can climb ladders like nobody's business. Does sound very familiar. Weird. Okay, all right. no no Give the premise, the the basic premise of Zelda.
Speaker: So even though there's many games in the Zelda franchise and they do have different stories, it's one of those things where they're all connected by like the same characters, the same type of character. You are usually always playing Link and he's either a little boy or Link.
Speaker: There's always going to be a Link character. There's always going to be a Princess Zelda character. ah There's probably always going to be like a Ganon type character who is the villain.
Speaker: And there's going to be these recurring um recurring species of characters, right? So we have ah the Gorons who are rock people. And the who are the fish people? Yeah.
Speaker: ah fish people Why can't I remember this? Zora. The Zora. Oh, I love the Zora. I i always love finding like the Zora kingdom. There's also recurring towns, ah which I don't know why. this is Everything is like leaving my brain. It starts with a key and I can't remember it. Kakariko Village. Kakariko Village, yeah. Yeah, there's other yeah there's there's a bunch of... um There are humans, and there Kokiri, which are little kind of elf people, and that is...
Speaker: what Link... No, Link's a Hylian. Link is a Hylian or a human, I guess. But when a Hylian is... Well, I think Hylians are different than humans.
Speaker: Okay. No, that's fair. I'm not positive, but I think they are different I think they're different people. And i think when a Hylian is young, it looks kind of like a Kokiri, which is why oftentimes he will be in a Kokiri. Like in the beginning of Ocarina of Time, he's in a Kokiri village. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. And you assume he's like a little elf boy. Right. But then he grows. Then he grows up. Into a Hylian within that game. and Yeah, the Zora in the first game were just... I guess we'll get through it as we talk about it, but they were just like little monsters in the water that shot...
Speaker: but Like ah ah ah projectiles out of their mouth. And then they, throughout you know the later series, they become really important. Yeah.
Speaker: An important race of like underwater...
Speaker: They're like... a Yeah, they're like... um It's like a kingdom almost. I look at the Zora, like the palace is like this, this little kingdom. um But I love the Gorons and they're just fucking rock people.
Speaker: And they crack me up. I think they're so funny. Big dopey rock guys. Big dopey rock guys. I just love them so much. um So yeah, ah even like I said, even though these games have somewhat, let's say somewhat differing storylines, at least different lores, you're going to find those recurring things. And I actually really like that in a franchise. I like that, oh, I found Kakariko Village in this one.
Speaker: I found the familiar thing yeah that that is in all of these games. and For the same reason that I like the Final Fantasy games, they're all different storylines and those are all different characters.
Speaker: But there's always an in that you find like an I N N not, not like an in, but yeah, there's, I don't know if you did that. Maybe you did. Maybe you did. Maybe I did. You know, there's an in, and there's these, these recurring things that make it feel familiar to you.
Speaker: And I think that's part of why the Zelda franchise is so beloved. um And it doesn't get necessarily, ah tiring to see all these things again right so when Breath of the Wild came out which is more of an open more of a Skyrim kind of an open not sandbox but open world I guess type of a game um people were really excited about it because it had those familiar elements it had you know Kakariko Village it had your Link your Zelda your Ganon but did you say who
Speaker: You keep saying this word. What, Zelda? No, that one's the boy, but the other word. Ganon? Link. Yeah, what's that? Link is the boy. Doesn't sound familiar.
Speaker: um But yeah, yeah. sorry, are you trying to make... I saying something wrong?
Speaker: i i i've never... I've heard... i the i've heard Of the game Zelda starring a boy named Zelda.
Speaker: And I'm just confused why you keep saying this word. A boy named Zelda. Yeah. And what game did you play a boy named Zelda? All of them.
Speaker: It's the event, the legend of Zelda. It's his legend.
Speaker: Wow. We need to have a talk. It's his, it's his little legend. Is it? Mm-hmm. So... Let's start kind of chronologically. What is your experience with the first game that's just called The Legend of Zelda? The Legend of Zelda. Yeah, I mean, I have played it.
Speaker: I've played it. It's not one of my favorites, but of course it's it's innovative for the time. I think what that was in the mid 80s, I think. I think that was just for the Nintendo, just the good old Nintendo Entertainment System. Yes.
Speaker: And it's, you know, it's like It's an action dungeon crawler-y type of thing. All the elements are there. it's just a little bit more rudimentary because it's so old. I can see why people had a fun time with it, though.
Speaker: It's top-down, and it is it is these... um It is this map that's just comprised of individual screens. And you move from one screen to the other and you're fighting all these little... like it's It's basically you get a shield and the shield only blocks things if they come straight on at you. You have a sword and you can only use it to hit the the the something if it's in the exact thing in front of you. like you and but this is where like a lot of the...
Speaker: tropes of Zelda begin right you get your you you meet your character boy Zelda you get your boomerang you get your boomerang you get your bombs your bombs will blow up walls and bushes and stuff that you have seen that you've walked past over and over in the game and you didn't know there was a secret behind them Which is, ah was a really cool thing.
Speaker: yeah I remember like my family used to have a couple saves. One was my dad's and don't touch that one. And then yeah then then it was the rest of the family would have their saves and then one of us would discover something and tell everybody else and then you'd have to go try it.
Speaker: um You'd get your bow and arrow. You had your candles that would light things on fire and that would sometimes open up dungeons. Yeah. um I mean, looking back, it really set the groundwork for the mechanic of the game. I think it even used the same sound effects that we're familiar with today, right?
Speaker: Like if you open something, it'll give that little. ah and Yeah. Right. and Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. um Yeah, a lot of those, a lot of the little songs, the songs that would play when you'd go to the fairy fountains and fairies that fly around you and um refill all your health.
Speaker: The idea of rupees and different colored rupees give you certain like ah worth different amounts. Heart containers that give you more health as you go, which is why a lot of people think of these games also as slightly RPG games is because you do improve your character as you go.
Speaker: You improve their armor You improve their weapons. You improve their the stats. Zelda stats are literally just. Health and strength.
Speaker: Yeah, but I don't consider them RPGs by definition, but I can but I can see that it has some of those elements to it, some of those hybrids.
Speaker: Have you ever beaten the Legend of Zelda? i have not beaten it. Have you beaten it? Yeah, so a couple years ago, um maybe maybe like a decade ago actually now, i I printed out... I don't know how you would do this. It would take forever to do this without... And I guess this is why why people used to just like write...
Speaker: draw their own little maps, right? So yeah I printed out a map and I would just carry it around in my wallet and play Zelda on my phone on a little Nintendo emulator.
Speaker: um And I just, I'd have the map there in my wallet. So I'd be somewhere, I'd have some time, I'd whip out the map and I'd just play a little, like I know where to go next. And I just play a little bit. And so I did, was able to do the dungeons in order and know where um The map wouldn't tell me exactly how to solve something, but it would show you... oh there's a...
Speaker: there is this thing here in this screen. yeah So then I would know to search that screen for that thing. um And i I played all the way through and it was very satisfying. Again, it had that puzzle feeling where you would solve one dungeon. It would lead you, it would give you the item that you needed to solve the next dungeon. Maybe, and maybe that's a dungeon you've already seen and didn't know how to get into. Yeah.
Speaker: And that, yeah, it was this sort of thing where you do one thing and it would make something else fall into place. And that's sort of the formula of Zelda and has been ever since. So it was.
Speaker: It's been very consistent, even through even to the most modern Zeldas. yeah And I think that's why, ah again, it's why so but it's so beloved because it keeps these familiar elements. like How many people have heart container tattoos?
Speaker: Because it's so familiar, you know? How about 2, the adventures of whatever like whatever this word you keep saying is, the adventures of Link?
Speaker: Must be some side character or something. I don't know why I played that game. oh and But I did, and i played it ah many, many, many, many years ago. I think I emulated it because I was just confused by... i mean, at this point, many Zeldas have been already out.
Speaker: So I just wanted to see what was up with Zelda 2. It is maybe the anomaly of all the games because it's really majority side-scroller. Majority.
Speaker: um It certainly has its quirks and its its translation errors like a lot of those games did. It's not as... chart Listen, here's what I'm going to say. It's kind of fun.
Speaker: Because it is a side. I like side-scrollers. I like combat. it's It's fun. But it doesn't have the charm that a lot of Zelda games do. um I don't know why. i think it's because it's just so much blander looking than the first one. The first one was cool because it was like top-down.
Speaker: ah You could see more of the world. Mm-hmm. um And in this one, it just is. it just is It's just so a little more bland. But I did beat it. And that's the thing that That is wild. I don't know anybody else who's beaten really that game. Really? Yeah.
Speaker: That game is... I found it so confusing as a kid. It is confusing. We got it, and I was very excited to play it on my Nintendo. Yeah. On my Nintendo.
Speaker: And I just... And if this one is more RPG-like. It is. You do have experience and stats. I don't think there's even heart meters in this game. I think it's a different meter, even. Like I said, this is the... Yeah, it's a life bar.
Speaker: This is the anomaly. There's still stuff, like, towards the end of the game. You know, I'm not going to count anything as spoilers here, because these games have been out forever. But, you know, you you battle, like, a Shadow Link.
Speaker: And Shadow Link is in many of the Zelda games. So it it is it is setting. It's still using those tropes, just in an ugly way. I really think it's kind of an ugly game. I'm not going to So then after that, so that was 1988. then in 1992, the SNES Link to the Past. And then 1998,
Speaker: in ninety ninety two on the snnes came a link to the past and then in nineteen ninety Three on the Game Boy came Link's Awakening.
Speaker: Did you play either of those? Let. Okay. So I played. Oh, yes. To. Yes. To ah yes to a Link to the Past. Which is a very fun game.
Speaker: And i think it's a lot of people's favorites. I know a lot of people are tempted to say Ocarina, but there is something so charming. And just with the updated graphics, and it's it's starting to look like almost almost like a Final Fantasy game in those early in those early days with the kind of top down.
Speaker: Oh, it's so dragon quest. Yeah. Yeah. It's in some of it reminds me of Chrono Trigger. I know you haven't played much of that game, but it's like very lush looking. um Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: The character design is strange because it is cutesy. ah So we're dealing with... Well, a lot of stuff in Super Nintendo was, right? Like the yeah Mario looked a little more cartoony.
Speaker: Yeah. um And, you know, Yoshi was one of the biggest properties. Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, Yoshi's not going to evolve, but the Zelda games. zelda is yeah Yeah, they'll get less cutesy as time goes by. But yeah, i've really I really really like A Link to the Past.
Speaker: And then I did play which one had the remake. It's Link's Awakening. Link's Awakening had the remake on the Nintendo Switch, which I did play. and So both of these games I have played some of and yeah not made it very far. um I think.
Speaker: Link to the Past, I think I got myself confused. I kept getting myself lost and then ah not really understanding how to progress. yeah And then sort of giving up. And I think something similar happened in Link's Awakening, the Nintendo Switch version. firstge I think I got a little, i think ah I ended up revisiting the same places over and over and not really knowing where to go next. And rather than looking it up, I think I just got a little bored and moved on, which perhaps I shouldn't have.
Speaker: That's fair, though, because I think in I think A Link to the Past, there is a lot of sameness in terms of screen. It does get does get a little confusing. And in terms of like Link's Awakening, that was initially on the Game Boy. Yeah. Which I did not play.
Speaker: So I did play the ah the the remake and I actually loved it. um It reminded me of A Link Past. to the past. It's kind of like aesthetically, it's got that top-down very cutesy thing.
Speaker: You know, once again, everyone's kind of chubby. um And so for me, because I was never going to play it on the Game Boy, I'm just not a big handheld person. um It at least made it accessible and enjoyable.
Speaker: um It's not a game, the the remake of Link's Awakening, I'm not necessarily going to go back and play a lot, not like other games, but I did like it as a Zelda game. I did enjoy it.
Speaker: Interesting. Yeah, i I liked it again. i got it's something that I do think I want to.
Speaker: I do think one day I will want to go back to it. I think you should. And I think you should give a Link to the Past maybe another try. Because I do you think it's fun. I do think it's enjoyable. So here's the thing.
Speaker: i recently, just today, ah i sort of impulse bought myself Retroid Pocket 4.
Speaker: Okay. Do you know what these are? don't. These are these ah little handhelds. That are about the size of like a PSP.
Speaker: Oh, okay. And they are, you install emulators on them. ah And it's it's a little emulation device, right? Yeah.
Speaker: So this should be coming, I don't know. I don't know when. I don't know what the ETA is. But when it does... Maybe it's it'll be time to start digging into some of these classics that I've missed. And i you know k Chrono Trigger is one that i was thinking of. But um maybe it'll be time. Maybe the maybe the first, my my test drive of my Retroid Pocket might be linked to the past.
Speaker: Ooh. That'd fun. like that. Also, you should definitely continue to continue Chrono Trigger because think you're going to like that game too.
Speaker: um all right. So moving forward in time is a big one. So this is the jump from Zelda to 3D Zelda. Yeah. This is the jump from a lot of people's, again, one of their favorite games of all time, Link to the Past, all the way up to...
Speaker: what is almost everybody's favorite game of all time. yeah yeah And that is the legend of Zelda Ocarina of time released for the Nintendo 64.
Speaker: ah It was remade on the three DS. I've played both versions to completion. Yeah. How, how do you feel? I feel a certain type of way about about this game.
Speaker: I had an n sixty four growing up. I sold my Sega Genesis and all the games. To get an n sixty four Wow. And um eventually, so I started, most people, as most millennials do, you know you go to Blockbuster with your dad and find some movies and then you go to the the video game section.
Speaker: ah Because I didn't have $60 to just buy game. So I had rent a game. And I would rent, I saw Ocarina of Time, And at that point in time, I was little. So I'm like, yes, I am judging ah book by its cover.
Speaker: This cover looks awesome and I want to play it. And I took it home. And like I said, I had never played anything like this before. I didn't. This type of of genre was new to me. What I was playing on my n sixty four was like Banjo-Kazooie.
Speaker: and And Mario 64 and all the platformers that I still love. But this was different. This was like there was a serious tone to it. It felt very adult, you know, to me. And I just have the the best memories of of playing this game. ah Eventually someone bought it for me because at that point, you're just wasting money on renting, right?
Speaker: um So eventually somebody bought me, you know, the gold. it came in that that little gold cart. Mm-hmm. And i I can't say enough good things about this game. I don't know if it's because it is the first genre of that that I've played or if it's because me and my best friend would take turns in Kakariko Village like shooting rupees with our bow and arrow yeah or taking turns freeing ah workers in Gerudo Village. like there's There's just so much. It's so story rich.
Speaker: You know, finally, and like Link's Awakening and a Link to the Past, it did some character stuff as much as it could, you know, for the limitations of the tech. This was very character driven. This is where characters got a bit of their quirks um where we can talk to people and in form bonds and relationships. And the 3D was good looking.
Speaker: At the time, which can't say that for computer games, now can you? 1998, rough year for most adventure games. But yeah, i i can't I feel like I'm gushing. I love this game, and i will still play it today ah yeah because I love it that much.
Speaker: um Yeah, everything everything about it. i very Every dungeon, every temple, just everything. I also first got it ah As a rental.
Speaker: Yeah. and I played it on my, you know, my my family had an N64. And I remember, i remember very specifically, this might have been, it it might have been just some like Sunday that the Eagles were playing, or it might have been the Super Bowl, because I think there were people over at my house.
Speaker: But I remember being so hooked on it. That I convinced my parents to let me... Do you remember TVs used to do this thing called Picture in Picture? i do. I never had one, but I know that... Yeah, I knew that it did.
Speaker: You could set one input to... input to a to like a small, a smaller square TV box in the bottom corner of your TV screen while you were doing something else. why Why you would do this? I don't know. But what I did was while my parents were watching sports, I continued to play Ocarina of Time. Amazing. In the picture in picture in the living room.
Speaker: And i was I remember just being so enthralled by this game. but the The moment where you're you're you know you're a little kid running around, you're already having fun. You're already just blown away by how cool this game is. You're going through um that the Deku tree and the the the first... I'm trying to remember what the first dungeon is. so I guess it's in...
Speaker: The first dungeon is the Deku tree, right? I was going to say, I think it is the Deku tree. Yeah. And then it's...
Speaker: i can't Again, I can't remember. I know there's like the forest temple. There's... You get swallowed. Like the temple.
Speaker: Right. That's Dodongo's cavern is the fire temple. That's where... Is that where the Gorons live? Yeah, it is. I just love them so much.
Speaker: There's the temple that's down in the well. There's the water, the infamous water temple. infamous water temple, yeah. Where have to... I don't think Dodongo's Cavern is the fire temple. I think those are different ones. Oh, okay. Now that I'm remembering more. Yeah, that could be. The infamous water temple where...
Speaker: ah You have to but just kind like you have to set switches yeah that will change everything inside the thing. didn't think it was that bad.
Speaker: Like, upon replaying it, I'm like, and maybe I just fluked my way through it. I don't know, but I didn't think it was too bad. Now, and then print the ah inside the the Jabu Jabu's belly is where you have to...
Speaker: carry Princess Ruto all the way back through the dungeon, right? and if Yeah, and that's one of the early ones. Yeah, that was... that That is also a very frustrating dungeon. Anyway... Yes, it is frustrating, yeah.
Speaker: But, so, all all of this, and then you learn you can change, you can travel through time and change into an adult and see this completely ruined wasteland of the world that you've already been in.
Speaker: yeah. yeah It's incredible. Yeah. It's it's great world building. It makes you feel attached because you can you know travel in time.
Speaker: What you're doing is you're looking at the consequences of your own failure. Yeah. You're looking at the quest ahead of you and saying... this In this reality, I have already tried to beat this game.
Speaker: I've already gotten to the end of the story and failed and yeah lost. And this is what happened. And it's sad. Like I found it, I found it difficult to go back to like the castle village and see it all in ruins as an adult. I'd much rather be there as a kid where, you know, games are happening and there's a guy selling you hats and like, no, I want to be, want to be in this better time.
Speaker: I'm just, even the emotional hit of having to erase that future that you've also started to grow attached to, um Yeah, like you're preventing it, but you're also preventing every thing that you've met in that future from coming to pass is another, you know, that it's an emotional game. There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot going on. um and you know, it's got a little bit of that.
Speaker: video gamey plot where if we were to break it down moment by moment we'd get ourselves a little confused uh and be like i don't exactly know what this meant but yeah you know the big story beats are really really effective in ocarina of time would you consider lynx awakening or link to the past would you say those are open world or smaller than that oh boy um
Speaker: I think Zelda has always been, well, besides maybe adventure verse Adventure of Link, I think they've always been open world. so You've always been able to do out of um
Speaker: out of order. You've always been able to wander pretty much wherever you wanted from the very beginning. I think they're all kind of open world, right? Yeah. You're right, but for some reason, Ocarina felt like the first truly, truly open world. Like, i am I am running for days to get where I need to be.
Speaker: I'm trying to get the sun back up. I guess my god guess an important thing we need to talk about is the mechanic of the Ocarina. Oh, sure. Yeah, this yeah introduces the Ocarina, which you have to learn songs on.
Speaker: is so fun. Remember them and play them. Uh, and they will get stuck in your head for the rest of time. Like everybody, everybody who's played that game knows do, do, do, do.
Speaker: And do, do, do. Wait, what's your favorite? who What's your favorite? Zelda's love. but Zelda's lullaby. Oh, real. That's so sweet. Mine's that weird song of storms.
Speaker: Fucking love it.
Speaker: I had this for the n sixty four and i had the gold cartridge. Nice. And one of my friends stole it. No. Who stole it?
Speaker: Who knows? I have no idea. ah Maybe it's somebody listening to this podcast right now. You give Matt's cartridge back right now or i had you have a problem with me. I i lived in my parents but when I was...
Speaker: um like 17 to and maybe like 16 to 18 or something. and My parents gave me the their entire basement, which had its own like door um to the outside. I also lived in the basement when I was a teen. So it felt like its own little apartment.
Speaker: And so I would have so many parties down there. And i remember when I moved out,
Speaker: my I was like, wait, where's my... I don't but i don't have Ocarina of Time anymore. And it just wasn't there. That's so sad. I still have my original.
Speaker: i I don't know if I... I probably didn't. I was showing you some of my gaming collection. I know have the gold cart in there somewhere. But I feel like if it would have came out, we would have started gushing about it. And I don't recall that happening.
Speaker: To be honest, I would have probably sold it by now. That thing's worth quite a bit of money. It is? Mm-hmm. Shit. But... but ah Yeah. So again, you were talking about the open world.
Speaker: um i later played it on my 3DS. I played the remake. And it is interesting going back and realizing how little of that world is populated with anything.
Speaker: That's true. true. Because we're not used to it now. How much is just running across completely empty space. Yeah. And yeah thinking about, oh, well, this... They didn't need to make it this big.
Speaker: They could have made it a little smaller. I feel the same way about, ah you know, Mario 64. It's just a lot of big screens with like nothing, with nothing on it. I mean, same with like Morrowind and Oblivion. Like it wasn't until like, it wasn't until later that people started realizing this idea. Like if we're going to do an open world, put something interesting in every square yard. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I think, it though, at least as a kid, it did feel populated. It did feel like I was – every new character I met and found was exciting and amazing. So at the time, because we weren't used to it quite yet, did feel very populated.
Speaker: felt – it felt – Amazing. It felt like even if it wasn't even if there wasn't much to do, you felt like you were being like sucked into this other world. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, man. um So good. Oh, and you get a horse. Yes. Epona. Epona. Which led ah which led me to buying the sequel, which came out not very much later. Right. a couple years.
Speaker: Yeah. Like two years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Two years later. And it was Majora's Mask. And I remember i would have a change of heart about this game later.
Speaker: It is now one of my favorite One of my favorite Zelda games. like I wish I had played it at the time because it's hard to go back and play these for me.
Speaker: I played it at the time and I was just really disappointed. it was the first time I started like it was the first ah it it might be where my game critic brain first started.
Speaker: Snapped on because i remember playing it and thinking and granted my opinion was wrong, but it was where I had a strong opinion and I felt like I understood um something of the intent and I was not liking it.
Speaker: So Majora's Mask uses a lot of the assets From Ocarina of Time. And so to me as a little kid. I kind of felt like this was just a mashup. Of Ocarina of Time. Used to just push something out the door.
Speaker: To capitalize on how popular. Ocarina of Time was. And I was just disappointed. like I was like I've seen a lot of these characters. It looks sloppy. i I don't really get.
Speaker: What's compelling about this. And I put it down for years. Until. um I've ah mentioned on this podcast before I took ah a long, long break from video games. yeah Pretty much all I would play is like stuff from my childhood or Skyrim. yeah And like video games weren't a big part of my life.
Speaker: But when I came back, I got my 3DS and I got Ocarina of Time and I got Majora's Mask. And I played it through and it's fucking brilliant.
Speaker: Yeah. it's It's a lot of people's number one. It's so smart. It is... When I was talking about a puzzle where you... At at first it's something, an image that is completely incoherent until you start putting things into place and then suddenly it's... Or slowly, i rather. It's... um ah The logic of it, the reality of it begins to take shape in front of you.
Speaker: That is the experience of playing Majora's Mask. You are completely baffled. And maybe you go and you do something. maybe you Maybe you find a path and you follow it. And you're like, oh, I'm getting something done.
Speaker: And then the day ends. Mm-hmm. The moon collapses into the earth. And all of your progress is reset. As the game starts over again. From the beginning.
Speaker: And it's very. Frustrating. And confusing. And you're like how do I even do anything. I feel like that's what I was bumping up against. And why maybe I didn't continue with it.
Speaker: So then there's a moment. Where. You. go through, i can't, once again, I can't remember the first dungeon.
Speaker: um
Speaker: and Is it, might be the swamp. um You go through a dungeon and you make a progress and you learn something and you're like oh my God, i can use this at the beginning of tomorrow.
Speaker: And it restarts. And you also realize that,
Speaker: Something has carried over into your next day. Yeah. and suddenly the whole game starts to snap into place and you're like, I understand how to play this game.
Speaker: and understand how to make progress. It's not going to be easy, but I get Yeah. And what another thing I like about Majora's Mask is is it has little microcosms of that within it. Like there are side quests that will bring you back to that exact same frustration again. There are side quests that have to do with learning people's schedules and learning a bunch of people's schedules and being in the exact right place at the right time.
Speaker: But then doing something to maybe gain a piece of information or something like that and then... having to restart the day with that piece of information and then doing something just slightly different.
Speaker: um And so you'll get that experience again, even after the totality of the game has snapped into place and you're like, okay, I understand. I'm no longer lost and confused. Then you go do like the, um some of the quests around town and you're thrust all the way back into like, I have no idea what's going on.
Speaker: Yeah. So there's such a, it's such a fun It's such a fun structure, yeah um which would pave the way, I guess, for games like 12 Minutes, which I actually hated.
Speaker: But ah what was that other game that you that was a Skyrim mod that became its own game? The Forgotten City. Oh, yeah. Yeah. um And other of these like time loop games that became...
Speaker: pretty popular in like the early 2020s yeah um we're and outer wilds is another one um they're all pulling from this structure of majora's mask and i would say it's also another standout where you know the zel the second zelda was kind of like what what it's kind of an anomaly but i don't i find this one to be a standout I think you're right. I think it is an anomaly. I think many people start playing this game and they just scratch their heads and they go, I don't know what the fuck.
Speaker: Yeah. But it's it's really, it's a smart game and it's the sort of game that makes you feel smart as you make progress in it. Yeah, for sure. I really need to revisit it because it has been a while. I did. I did have those confusing things. And I think when game is reminiscent of something so beloved, like the game before it, you kind of you you think, well, this is going to be another great experience. Yeah.
Speaker: You know, along the same lines. And it is really different. It's just in the same like skin, you know? Exactly. I think it is a great experience, um but it's so, so different.
Speaker: Yeah. um
Speaker: I'm going to mention the next three games. Okay. And then we'll see if... Because I think there are three games that neither of us have very much if any experience with and then we'll see if we want to cover the the following game and stop there or keep going so i think we should split it into because i just think that's a good idea because i want to talk more about kind of these things that we're covering especially as we get to breath of the wild and and you know stuff like that so absolutely so me bring up the
Speaker: What I want to do is mention Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. Did you ever play either of those games? I did not. Is that those are handheld, right? Yes. and I haven't played them either, but they are they are games where it is.
Speaker: ah They are linked. In some sort of. I don't get it.
Speaker: ah They have a single plot. That ah is linked between both Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. And the only way I think to get the like true ending is to beat both of them.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Which is interesting, but I've never played them. And then Four Swords. No, I haven't played the haven't played Four Swords. Me neither. You can play it. It was a Game Boy Advance game, and you can play it multiplayer.
Speaker: And have four links running around. Ew, no. Why did I say that? I meant for his elbows. ah Sometimes I say the strangest things. yeah So this is where this next one I think is where we where we might stop on because I think you do have some experience with it, right?
Speaker: Yes, I do. And i love I actually love it. That's amazing. I want to hear you gush about it the way I gush about Majora's Mask. So yeah this is Wind Waker. Wind Waker. Oh, my gosh. For GameCube.
Speaker: man, I had a GameCube and I liked it for some reason.
Speaker: So yeah, Wind Waker, one of the only games I had for the GameCube, let's be completely honest here, um was an amazing experience artistically. Because I know i know we're talking about like standouts, and they can't all be standouts, because then nothing's a standout.
Speaker: But this game, truly, in terms of aesthetic, ah was shocking to people. It is a completely different game. type of aesthetic. It has that almost like that 2D cartoony look to cell shaded, I guess. Yeah, cell shaded art.
Speaker: I guess you could call it. It's really cutesy. And it has a water element. It has a sailing element, which people are back and forth on. i remember this being so controversial when it came out.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, I'm trying to think of the other games. No, you're just running. You're running around or you're using, you know, in Ocarina specifically, you can use that to trip to quick travel.
Speaker: um In Wind Waker, there's like a like a sailing mechanic where you are in a boat that is also alive. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's so cute and I really like it. um And so you get this boat and you can sail it to different ah to different places and you can like not fish, but like, OK, you have a crane. It's not. a fit yeah You have like a oh it's like the grappling hook. So you have the hook and you can like uncover treasure in the sea.
Speaker: I really like that. I don't care what people say. I like sailing in yeah games. Okay. Imagine dredge, but not the impending doom.
Speaker: um And you also get, what would you call it? It's the wind waker, but it's like, it's a, what? It's not a wand. It's like an orc. It's like a conducting stick.
Speaker: Yeah. you know what talking about? Like a conductor uses a stick? Oh, a conductor stick. a kindda A baton. like A baton! So kind of sort of similar to Ocarina where you get that.
Speaker: yeah Are you supposed to... Does the GameCube... I'm mixing it up. In Phantom Hourglass, I think you get that too when you're supposed to draw on the screen. But you don't have anything like that in the GameCube.
Speaker: I don't remember if you're drawing on the screen, but you're using your baton to like do a little melody that changes the wind. That's it's called the Wind Waker. Because obviously you're in a sailboat, so you have to be able to control control the wind.
Speaker: yeah Other than those kind of weird things that are going on, I thought this was a very good Zelda game. I thought it hit the tropes, regardless of...
Speaker: the sailing mechanic yeah um it just took a different form you know the combat was very much the same um and it's cute oh my god it is so cute there is a little like bird character named melody and she is so cute this game's a adorable and that's an interesting thing for me to say because in general i like the more dramatic yeah looking zeldas Like for the most part. Like I like Breath of the Wild. I like Twilight Princess, which was way darker in aesthetic.
Speaker: But man, you bring up a Kurok in Wind Waker and you tell me that's not the cutest thing you've ever seen in your life. hi Dude, i considered for a long time getting the violin playing Kurok or cello, I guess it's a cello, on my back hidden by my hair. So when I move my hair, you find the Kurok. It pops out. Yes.
Speaker: That's how cute I think it is. And yeah, ah very, very similar. It does have that weird kind of GameCube-y vibe, I guess. I don't quite know how to how to describe it.
Speaker: um I didn't really... i mean, the GameCube is not a beloved console, but it has its like cult status, I guess. Yes.
Speaker: And I think it's finding... I think as emulation becomes... As it starts to...
Speaker: As some of these older consoles that weren't very yeah popular at the time, like the GameCube, or um even like, you know, Sega CD or Sega Saturn um become easier to emulate.
Speaker: Yeah. People start finding the ah the gems. Yeah, that's true. i truly think this is gem.
Speaker: um Like I said, it was kind of not it was looked at kind of oddly, little side-eyed at the time. I think that's mostly the aesthetic because it is so different. But it's still like a Zelda game. And I like the sailing because now it feels really grand. I'm not just running across a field anymore.
Speaker: I'm like sailing across the ocean. And yeah, that made it feel ah really big. It made things feel really big and really epic to me. and It has...
Speaker: For that reason, sorry, this is ah I'm changing topics, but we can come right back. um For that reason, it has long been my theory that the way Elder Scrolls VI will try to Skyrim is by adding sailing.
Speaker: Because how else do you make something grander and bigger than Skyrim? And the only thing I've ever been able to think of is, well, you'd have to you'd have to be able to jump jump on a boat Yeah.
Speaker: But we'll see. Who knows? But anyway, back to Wind Waker. Wind Waker. And yeah, there's like this, this like little fish guide that sometimes pops up. It's kind of reminiscent of the owl in Ocarina.
Speaker: um So like, and yeah, I think it's a very accurate Zelda game. It just looks a little crazy. And you're in the water a lot on a boat that talks. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, man. I'm just looking at screen caps and it's still... i don't know. There's something about the decision to use cel-shaded art that is very smart to me because it still looks so cool.
Speaker: Very controversial in its time. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. um Cel-shaded art. Blueprints. Is this the first time that we see the bird people?
Speaker: um yeah it is it's it is the base from the wiki it is the first time you see the rito and they come back in breath of the wild which I love do you even know how excited I was to see the bird people again so excited so excited Yeah, i ah i was trying I'm trying to look. and I don't think so. ah Some of these, like the Zora started out as an enemy. Like a lot of the ah races that you meet start out as enemies in the early Seldas. But I don't think the Rito do. I think they are just in these two games and that's it.
Speaker: Yeah, i think so. Well, i
Speaker: think there's something really special about the Zelda games. I think um this little elf boy, Zelda, has wormed his way into our hearts.
Speaker: He's fighting his way through the dungeons of our hearts. but My heart is a dungeon. Good fucking luck. He's escorting a princess through my guts at all times. ah No, but i think it's I think it is definitely a... ah I think it's a special thing that we have so many really...
Speaker: Warm and kind of intense memories about multiple games in this franchise. That's true. Yeah, that's And the fact that those memories are detached from each other. My feelings about um the original Legend of Zelda...
Speaker: are entirely separate from my feeling about Ocarina of Time and entirely separate from my feeling about Majora's Mask, which looks exactly like Ocarina of Time, right? Like yeah each of them are so so much their own experiences and yet um they're all, you know,
Speaker: very special. um Yeah. I think there's something very special when you're equating a memory with a game that you played at the time. Yeah. So like I said, you know, when we were talking about Ocarina, my dad was still alive during that time. He hadn't passed yet, but he, he had been diagnosed with cancer, but he had not passed yet. So I have these very warm feelings towards that game. And again, yeah my best friend would come over, we would play it together.
Speaker: And again, and then Wind Waker, totally different experience. I'm living on my own in Chicago with my GameCube. that's Just you and your GameCube against the world.
Speaker: Just me and my GameCube and my pet rat that I had at the time. And yeah, it's they're all very they're all warm memories, but they're all very separate. And they continue to be warm and not related to each other as these Zelda games go.
Speaker: and what is exciting about this for me as we wrap up is we have another what dozen games to talk about in the Zelda series yeah and I will have more of these this level of gushing to do about more than one of them same yes I will be i will the gushing will come out
Speaker: Ew. You're the one who's like the princess is being escorted through my guts. She's got to gush out sometime. She's got to gush out of my guts. Gush that princess out my guts.
Speaker: Well, Roses, I think let's call it here and let's have another episode very soon. Yes. Perhaps even next week. Who knows? Oh my god.
Speaker: Who knows? Where we talk about ah more Zelda games. Yeah. We'll call them the the moderns. The moderns. The moderns. And...
Speaker: Everybody, thank you for listening to Save Your Game. um Yeah. Thank you for listening to us gush a lot. Thanks for listening to us gush out a princess or two.
Speaker: Thank you. but one what um ah What do I want to say? Email us. MattandRoses at gmail.com. Visit us. Save Your Game Podcast.
Speaker: on Instagram. You follow us on Blue Sky. i tweet about vases and cats. Strangely, not a lot about adventure games, but a lot of ceramics.
Speaker: um And I think that'll do it for us. Check back with us next next week. Do we have anything? we have anything else to talk about?
Speaker: ah Maybe I'll do this. If you get a chance, if you have any interest in this, I have started an X-Men podcast. It's called Mutant Menace. You can find it anywhere you find podcasts. you find this podcast fun, please.
Speaker: fun At least give it a shot. X-Men might not be 100% your thing, but we do go through the issues and joke about them and ah talk about them in depth in a way that maybe even if you're not a X-Men fan, you might enjoy. so I listen to it.
Speaker: I'm not like the biggest. I'm not not an X-Men fan, but I'm not the biggest X-Men fan. X-Men. and i And I do listen to it. Yeah. It has the pushing of Rose's seal approval.
Speaker: So just, yeah, hop over and listen to an episode. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing. But maybe it will be. And anyway, just trying to get this thing off the ground.
Speaker: So, Rose's. Yes.
Speaker: I um have been digging deep inside myself. You can't be the Pope.
Speaker: Well, at least I got podcasts and podcasts is art. Podcasts is art, but art is also suffer.
