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Episode 201 - How to Sell without Being Sleazy
1.2k Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Macy breaks down a number of myths around sales like "adding value will make people want to buy from you" or "you can just share your life and sales will come" or "I'm already making sales so I don't need to learn how to sale".
As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check 'em out at https://daveyandkrista.com/sell-without-sleazy-btb-episode201/. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
After him talking to me since high school about sales skills i said i'm ready to learn and he said you have to go all in like you have to put away whatever you're learning whoever you're listening to just put it away just focus.
00:00:13
Speaker
You're listening to the Brands That Book Show, a podcast for creative entrepreneurs who want practical tips and strategies for building engaging brands, crafting high converting websites, and creating reliable lead generation systems for their businesses. I'm your host, Davy Jones, co-founder of two agencies, a brand and website design agency, Davy and Krista, and the digital advertising agency, Till Agency. And I ask questions so you can find answers.
Sales Skills with Macy McNeely
00:00:41
Speaker
Today we are chatting about sales with Macy McNeely of Guide Culture. Selling can sometimes feel like the hardest part of running a business, but it's obviously so crucial to one's success. A mistake that we often see people make is moving in circles around the sale. And what I mean by that is that people often avoid selling by convincing themselves that if they do certain things like just add value, that people will buy.
00:01:03
Speaker
And we've definitely fallen into some of those traps ourselves, especially when we first started our business. And sometimes even now have to ask ourselves, are we actually talking about our products or services? And we get it. Selling can feel awkward at times. And many have this idea that selling is sort of sleazy. But Macy makes a good argument that selling isn't only a business skill, but a life skill too. And when done in the right way, can have a positive impact on your world.
00:01:30
Speaker
In this episode, Macy breaks down a number of myths around sales like adding value will make people want to buy from you, or you can just share your life and sales will come, or I'm already making sales, so I don't need to learn how to sell. Macy and the Guide Culture team, they also have a book out called Persuade for Good, how to be a person of influence who changes the world one conversation at a time.
00:01:51
Speaker
So if sales is something you're interested in, I highly recommend checking that book out after listening to this conversation. It's a great way to extend the content that you'll hear today, and they even do an exclusive webinar for those who purchased the book. As always, links and resources can be found in the show notes. Check them out at davianchrista.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review over at Apple Podcasts. Now, onto the episode.
00:02:18
Speaker
Macy, welcome to the Brands of Book Podcast. Really appreciate your time. Hey, Davey. I'm so fired up to be here with you. Yeah. So you recently had another baby.
Balancing Entrepreneurship and Family
00:02:28
Speaker
How do you manage young children and working? I ask mostly because I figure my entrepreneur friends with kids have the best time management skills. So how do you make it work? You know, I have a million
00:02:43
Speaker
like tips and tricks of time management. But what has been the biggest thing for me when it comes to kids and entrepreneurship and business ownership is
00:02:54
Speaker
Cause I'm a two year old and then a eight, nine week old. The way my kids have lit a fire under me, I was not expecting that. And they have really become my catalyst more than anything. So one thing that's just been really helpful for me, just like as I create content and as I'm really helping people believe things that they need to believe in order to have the best life that they can.
00:03:17
Speaker
is really think about what, my oldest son is Rush, so I always think about him. What would I tell Rush at 18? What would I want him to believe before he goes out into the world? And something about that shift, I know we're gonna talk about the Persuade for Good book that we just wrote.
00:03:32
Speaker
We wrote that book with our kids in mind. If something were to happen to us, what would we want them to walk away with? And that's what this book is. It's like, hey, here are the 10 things that you need to believe in order to get people to buy into you. Because sales skills are life skills. It's not just whether they become entrepreneurs or not, they have to have sales skills in order to get the life that they want. I believe that so wholeheartedly. And so that has been the biggest gift of kids, honestly.
00:04:01
Speaker
And then of course, there's a ton of time management things that I do. I'll give you one specific thing is every day I decide the result I'm going to have not the to do list, but the result what's going to be completed. And I do not
00:04:17
Speaker
I do not get up unless it's done. Now, I do have like a timeframe. So I'll have like, let's say an hour and a half block. It has to get done an hour and a half. It might be C minus work. It might not be perfect, but it gets done. So if I look at the clock and it says, I got 20 more minutes to finish this project, I better put gas to the pedal or whatever the saying is.
00:04:38
Speaker
to get it done. And that has been huge for me. It's just accepting the C minus work, getting it done no matter what in the timeframe that I have. Yeah, that's awesome. It's really interesting with kids, the constraints that it puts on you and forces you really to think about the most important things in a day. I was telling a friend yesterday that
00:04:59
Speaker
We have a vacation coming up and it's always incredible to me how much I can get done before vacation so that we can go on vacation, totally disconnect. And I always think to myself, why am I not structuring my day like this all the time? But it really forces me to think, what is the most important thing I need to focus on today?
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, a good question we ask on our team is, is this critical to the mission? Because it can be so exciting to try something new and see if this works and it's not critical to the mission. And so every day we kind of look at what is our result and we ask, are all of these things critical to the mission? And when you ask yourself that question, it becomes really clear because critical, like if you think about critical condition, it's like nothing else matters. And so that's been huge for our team here at Guide Culture.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah. Well, maybe you can fill us in a little bit about guide culture, kind of maybe give us the backstory, tell us how it started, tell us what the mission is, what it is that you all are seeking to do.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, we want to steward people's legacies by equipping them with sales skills.
Transition from Ministry to Sales
00:06:00
Speaker
I started out in ministry actually. I was in children's ministry and I was in the job and I enjoyed the job. I really did, but there was just something more in me. Maybe you feel that too Davey or you felt that in the past where you're like, I am capable of something huge. I don't know what it is, but I know that I am. And so I took the first step. I just actually started selling products on Instagram. I was like, I'm just going to try. I'm just going to like take a swing at this.
00:06:25
Speaker
and you know my dad has been an entrepreneur and a salesperson for forty years and he actually has always really fought for me to learn sales skills in thousand high school i mean there are memories of him bringing a projector to the beach trip and bringing us
00:06:40
Speaker
workbooks to the beach because he had this moment with his family that he could transfer the most important skillset that he believed in. And I always pushed him away for lots of reasons, but mostly I thought that he was like old and not cool and dated and he just didn't get it. You know, he didn't know what life was like, you know, now, nowadays is what I used to think. But he was watching me on Instagram cell and he would say things like, or he actually was telling me, he asked me one question that really turned everything around. He said,
00:07:09
Speaker
Why are you so ashamed to sell? I was like, what? Ashamed? And he was right, because really what I was doing, I was sharing my whole life. I was giving a play by play. I was trying to make people like me and know me and trust me, but I never talked about the product.
00:07:26
Speaker
I just kind of would place it in little places hoping that someone would ask me about it. He was like, you're so ashamed. Why? And I'd actually quit my job to try to make this thing work. And I was at a point where I was like, okay, I either need to double down or I've got to go get another job. And so I went back to him finally with my tail between my legs. I said, okay, after him talking to me since high school about sales skills, I said, I'm ready to learn.
00:07:49
Speaker
And he said, you have to go all in. Like you have to put away whatever you're learning, whoever you're listening to, just put it away and just focus. I said, okay. So every day for six months, I went to his office. He taught me a skill. We would role play. And then I would implement. That's a major piece. I would implement into the wild. And I really wasn't even paying attention to my numbers. I just got in this flow of like playing the game.
00:08:12
Speaker
And it wasn't until I calculated things six months later, I realized I'd hit my first $10,000 month by selling a product that I made 30 bucks commission on. I was like, oh my gosh, like this is it. I couldn't believe it. Like what I learned is it wasn't dated what he had.
Establishing a Sales Training Program
00:08:31
Speaker
It was actually timeless. It never would go out of date.
00:08:35
Speaker
And then I couldn't help but see how nobody had sales skills. I would watch people on Instagram. I'm like, they're ashamed. They're not doing it. Oh my gosh, they need it. They're not getting it. And I went back to him and I said, Hey, let's like really make this a proper training and get it into the hands of people. And so we spent a year
00:08:53
Speaker
organizing this thing. He actually already had a training that he would kind of teach to his staff. And so we took that and we organized it. And we did that same process where we taught a skill, we practice and role played with people, and then they would go and do it in the wild, that same process, and it kind of a mass scale.
00:09:11
Speaker
And it's been five years since we've had our first cohort. We're on cohort 37 now, and over 1500 people have graduated from school of sales. And it is honestly the joy and honor of my life. We have coaches, we have certified trainers, we have master trainers. And it is like, honestly, the most fun I've ever had is building this business. And I love being able to teach people sales skills.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. Well, I actually picked up your book. I have it right here for those of you who are watching this, Persuade for Good. I actually prefer the print version, but I bought it in time for this episode. Love what I've read so far. And today, I'd love to talk to you about some of the myths that you go through in this book around sales because I think that there's things that some of which I believe in the past and many of which I hear all the time.
Guiding Consumers in Sales
00:10:01
Speaker
I had a sort of a light bulb moment recently. I went to buy a car at CarMaxx and they're famous for not trying to sell you, right? And it's the first car I've ever bought at CarMaxx. I don't know how the commission structure works and maybe it's specific to this CarMaxx. This is my only experience. But I don't think they get commission in the same way as like a
00:10:21
Speaker
salesman does at your local dealer or whatever. Anyways, I found it really disorienting walking in there and not having anybody try to sell me a car. It's so funny because when you think of sales, I think one of the first images that come to mind for a lot of people is this sleazy car salesman who's just trying to get you into some lemon and get you off the lot.
00:10:43
Speaker
But in there, I wanted somebody to walk me through what would be the best choice for me given my constraints, what I was looking for in a car, et cetera, et cetera, right? And so the fact that nobody, they didn't really care. It's like, hey, so what do you think about this car? And they'd just be like,
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good car. People seem to like it. And it's like this is not what I need. I'm looking for your opinion. I'm looking for your expert advice. I know you move a ton of cars each day. You have the advantage of being in quite a few different brands. I want to know what you think is best for me. So I found that very disorienting and it kind of flipped things for me. I was thinking about
00:11:22
Speaker
I think people really do want to be sold to. But how much do you deal with sort of that pushback of like, well, people just don't want to be sold to? People actually want help buying. They might not want to be sold to, but they want help buying. And that's two very different things. And what you just experienced was, I wanted help buying.
00:11:42
Speaker
And I love that word that you just said disoriented. You were literally flailing in an ocean, needing someone to come and help you show you the way. And this is why we're called guide culture. Our method is called guide method. But think about a tour guide. They are walking in front.
00:12:01
Speaker
They are passionate about what they're showing you, whether it's a college tour or a city, and they know a lot about it. They're not showing and telling you everything about the city, but they're bringing out the specific buildings and they're making the buildings mean something.
00:12:16
Speaker
So you might walk by a building and it just looks really tall, but what they know is that it was built by somebody who really believed in what the city could do for somebody. And they were able to cast vision of why this is so important and no one's ever built, you know, whatever. They really create meaning around something that's basic to someone else.
00:12:37
Speaker
they are able to know what to point out, right? Like maybe they have a whole group behind them that is a bunch of, you know, 15 year old girls. So they might not talk about the pavement on the ground, but they might actually bring out and highlight the candy store on the corner. They know it so well backwards and forwards. They make it really engaging and they bring it to life.
00:13:01
Speaker
And that's what a great salesperson does. They come out in front, they only share the information that needs to be shared with the right person, and they help make sense of what's ever going on in the prospect's head and kind of brings it context to what they already know. You know, a lot of people think, I was actually looking this up of like, why do people feel gross about sales? I literally can't even comprehend that. It makes no sense to me. And a part of that is probably because I grew up in a sales cultured home, honestly.
00:13:30
Speaker
And I looked up, I was literally Google, why do people feel gross about sales? And what came up was that salespeople traditionally feel like that they can't be transparent.
00:13:41
Speaker
They feel like they can't say everything that they need to say about the product that they're selling. But that is so old school because really back in the day, salespeople did have all the information, right? They could pick and choose what they wanted to share. But now the consumer, they actually have more information sometimes than the salesperson has. And the power is actually in the buyer.
00:14:03
Speaker
The buyer has all the information. They have the good and the bad. They just need help making sense of it. And so the salesperson is like, Hey, where, let me like look at your cards. Let me see what you know. Let me see your objections. Let me see your concerns and let's make sense of it and help make the best decision for you. And it might be to buy the car. It also might not be to buy the car. The goal is to help you to win ultimately. And that is the salesperson's job.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting to say that because one of the things I think somewhere along the way, I realized that I could tell somebody exactly how I was going to fulfill a service for them, be completely transparent about the process. And that made them more likely to book us than less likely. And I think that a lot of people's intuition is, well, if I share too much, then…
00:14:48
Speaker
They could just go and implement that on their own, what's stopping them from doing it on their own. And I think to your point, it's that I was making sense of a process that maybe they weren't super familiar with, even if they'd done some research, even if they showed up with some knowledge. I've been able to make sense of that and say, hey, this is exactly the path.
00:15:05
Speaker
that I think you need to follow based on your needs. But one of the myths that I really want to talk about and I think I just hear so much is you can just share your life and sales will come. And you started talking about how your dad called you out and was like, why are you so ashamed? And I wonder how many people don't even realize maybe that they're sort of ashamed of selling or talking about their product.
Building Professional Relationships
00:15:27
Speaker
They just default to, you know, well, if people like me, they'll buy from me.
00:15:32
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah. There's a huge difference between being liked as a friend and being liked as a professional. Huge difference. So for example, let's say Davey, you and I have been friends for 10 years.
00:15:48
Speaker
It's like no one trusts, okay? Those are like the three things. I know you. Like I know you're a good person. I know your family. I like you. We have fun together. You are funny and we have great conversations and I trust you. Like I trust you enough for you to babysit my kids. Those are awesome qualities to have as a friend. But let's say I recently just got my certification to inject Botox.
00:16:16
Speaker
Okay, hypothetically. And I'm like, Davey, we're friends. Can I inject Botox in your face? You're like, uh, like, no, right? Like there's two, I'm not going to be your guinea pig. I'm not going to practice. I like you as a person. I know you. I trust you. I would literally ship my kids to your house for a month. And I know you'd raise them just like I would, but you're not going to inject Botox in my face. Do you see how those are so different?
00:16:41
Speaker
And even with a website it's like hey I like you Davey and I know you and trust you but I need my website to be really good and you're brand new. You're not but I'm just saying hypothetically you're brand new so I don't trust you in that way. I don't know you in that way. I don't like you in that way. So no like and trust is not enough. It's not.
00:17:00
Speaker
you have to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about. You can help them and that they can really buy into what you know. And all of that is how you present your offer and how you communicate it in a really effective way. And it's more than just talking. A lot of it is demonstrating, demonstrating your life, demonstrating your values, and really only showing up with value. I know a lot of times I'll watch people on Instagram and they're like,
00:17:26
Speaker
Oh, I'm just checking in. Like I just want to pop in. I just want to show up. I just wanted to show my face and there's no value in that, right? And so really showing up with like, Hey, I'm going to sell people on a belief every day. I'm going to sell people to believe something and to think something that makes them want to move forward in the sales process. That is how you build the right kind of like no interest and you can have both, but it's important to have both.
00:17:51
Speaker
You cannot just have the friend like no one trusts. You have to have the professional one and that has to honestly weigh heavier in my opinion. Yeah. So how do you turn that corner from just showing up and trying to be this likable character to I guess the way you put it was selling people on a belief each and every day. Yeah. Davey, I'm curious if you've ever experienced someone who like just quote doesn't get it.
00:18:15
Speaker
They're like, I don't need a website. And you're like, how would you ever think that like you need it so bad? Have you experienced that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So that's what I like to call the stuck arc. You have one person on one side of the arc, who was like, I don't need it. I'm good. And you're on the other side. And you're like, you cannot afford not to have this.
00:18:36
Speaker
Right? And you're like, how can I move him? Think about like a speedometer, right? How can one side zero miles per hour, the other side is 100. How can I just inch him over to 100? You're not going to go from zero to 100 just like that. You've got to kind of persuade them in a process over time.
00:18:53
Speaker
And so what most people do is they show up and they're like, here's my whole life. Here are my kids. Here's my family. Here's my house. Here's my decorations. And by the way, this is amazing. Websites are amazing. You need this. It changes your life. And you think you're just going to move them from zero to 100 and you're just not, right? We just need to persuade them over a process. And that's where people like pitch. They think it's like a one throw where it's like, this is why you need a website and it's so good and so important. It'll change your business.
00:19:22
Speaker
Instead, they just might need to believe like one new thought to get them closer. So let's think for a website that thought could be like, my brand reflects my reputation.
00:19:35
Speaker
Like right now someone might not even believe that their brand is a reputation. They think branding is a bunch of Canva graphics, but it's actually a reputation and it matters so much. So your job maybe today is to sell somebody on the belief that their brand equals a reputation and it matters and it's so important.
00:19:54
Speaker
That's just step one, and that might get them to 30%. It might get someone to 70 miles per hour. That one belief might get someone to the 100 miles per hour and say, yes, he's right. I need a website. But what's important, people don't want to pressure
00:20:10
Speaker
And we're not pressuring, we are persuading. And persuading is a process and it happens over different lengths of time. Some person might take an hour, some person might take a year. But the point is that you keep showing up, you sell beliefs, you help people think the way they need to think in order to believe a website is valuable.
00:20:28
Speaker
And you do that every single day. Can you see that's the difference between like, I got this shirt from this boutique versus you can have and really control your reputation with the right website. It's two totally different feelings.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's so good. I love that. And you call that the trust arc? Is that what you call that? The stuck arc. Oh, the stuck arc. People are stuck. I just had a conversation with a girl who does LinkedIn consulting. And she's like, they don't get it. They don't understand that their dream career is right on the other side of LinkedIn. And people are like, oh, they don't get it. And so they don't want it. So they're not my people. And they just walk away.
00:21:05
Speaker
and that no no no no it is your job to meet them where they are and be the tour guide right get out in front of them and show them the new and better way.
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I love that you call it the stuck arc. We call it the trust gap. That's how we talk about it. Similar concept. Really, really like that. You know, one of the things that I also often hear, and it's myth number three in your book, is adding value will make people want to buy from you. And so I think this, you know, this ties in a little bit to what we were just talking about, moving people through or down the stuck arc, right?
Creating Value in Sales
00:21:42
Speaker
I guess what's wrong with that mindset?
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, we kind of compare it from adding value to building value. Two different things. So let's say you are a health coach, okay? And you know that broccoli is important to eat every day.
00:22:02
Speaker
Adding value would be something like, here are five ways to make broccoli. You can steam it, you can roast it, you can saute it, you can whatever, all these ways. And people read that, and they'll save the post, and they'll like it, and they'll take screenshots. But we all know broccoli is healthy. We all know that we should be eating it every day. That's not new information.
00:22:27
Speaker
What can you do to inspire someone to go to the grocery store and buy broccoli and eat it right now? That's the difference. People think like, hey, look at all this value I'm adding. I'm showing you how to eat broccoli and all these things in different ways. But unless someone actually eats it and feels passionate about it and is like, I will not go to sleep until I have a whole serving of broccoli every day. That's the difference between adding building value.
00:22:50
Speaker
I'll give you another example because we say sales skills are life skills and it's whether you're a parent trying to get your kid to bed or you are selling your business for $100 million. It's the same exact skills. I told you I grew up in a sales cultured home and my dad, now that I know and understand sales, I look back. I had like this, that's a Raven moment where I think about my past. I'm like, whoa, like he sold me my whole life.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I remember getting my learners and I didn't really want to drive that much I wanted to listen to music and put on my makeup and like in the car and just I didn't want to drive and adding value moment would be like hey macy we really need to practice merging on the highway today.
00:23:29
Speaker
emerging on the highway, going at this speed, and being able to check your blind spot, this is what you're going to learn. That's adding value. Building value, what he did was really painted vision for me all the time. He would say, Macy, you are too valuable not to be able to be a master at driving.
00:23:48
Speaker
Your life is too important. We're going to learn. We're going to practice today. He would really build belief in me that my life mattered so much and so I'm going to get really comfortable driving.
00:24:01
Speaker
And then once I bought into like, okay, I'm going to drive every time I get in the car, then it's like, okay, let's learn how to merge on the, on the highway. Let's talk about some tips and tricks that you can do it. And I know like people talk about jab, jab hook. It's like add value, add value pitch, but it just doesn't make people want to move in sales skills. Selling is making people move in a direction and knowing five ways to make broccoli is just not enough.
00:24:25
Speaker
Sure. And that's an interesting nuance. I'm thinking actually, this is within the last week, something that I've been on the verge of buying. I think because they're doing what you're talking about. Ooh. And it's this, I have an awful slice in golf, you know, now that summertime's rolled up. My five-year-old also has picked it up and so that's been very convenient for me because now I can get out and play more. But I have an awful slice.
00:24:49
Speaker
And so I've been playing in just a few more men's league type events. And I don't want to be embarrassed out there with this slice. So there's this ad that I've been getting and it's all about fixing your slice. And it's this, I want to say it's probably a 10 minute video that it takes you to. But it's all about that belief building around. He doesn't even actually tell you. He gives you all the reasons why you're slicing. But what he does is he goes through all these different people who
00:25:17
Speaker
have had this slice for the last 15 years. They never thought they can get rid of it. And within five minutes, they got rid of this slice. And so I'm like this close to purchasing this program because I've started to believe like, okay, if all these people can fix their slice in five minutes in a five-minute range session, yeah. And then of course, it has like 300 comments on the ad and stuff like that. So that helps too.
00:25:42
Speaker
And you know, there's so many different angles of that. It's like you, cause everyone enjoys doing stuff that they're good at. Like he, you can like enjoy cause you said, I don't want to be embarrassed. Nothing's worse than being embarrassed. Like there's a way for you to really enjoy golfing with your friends versus getting nervous. Not to mention your five year old. Hey, like go make memories of a lifetime with your five year old son. And he gets to have these core memories with his dad on the golf. Like that's a huge deal.
00:26:10
Speaker
And you get to teach him how to slice. Yeah, exactly. And being able to teach him how not to do this. Exactly. You should buy it. I'm a big proponent. I'm buying things that you feel pulled to. It sounds like you feel pulled to it. Oh, for sure. And I'm going to have to because I'm playing in a men's league game tomorrow night and I want to feel like I carry my weight, you know?
00:26:31
Speaker
you got to prepare right now for that moment, Davey. Yeah, yeah. So the next myth I want to talk about is feeling like you're either a natural born salesperson or you're not, you know, and how to work through that. So maybe people are just feeling like this is just not something
00:26:47
Speaker
I want to do. Maybe tied up in that too is how people sell. I know people who really just refuse to get on a call with people. If they really want to work with me, we're going to do this all via email. If they don't want to do it all via email, they don't really want to work with me. What would you say to those people? I think tied up in that a little bit is just not wanting to do the sales thing and maybe not even believing that they can learn the sales thing.
00:27:13
Speaker
So when I think of the word natural, I think if someone is born with it, like out of the womb.
Learning Sales Skills
00:27:20
Speaker
And so when you think that way, you're thinking, oh, they got a different hand dealt to them than me. So it's like out of my hands, out of my control, I just don't have it. And I actually believe there's no such thing as a natural salesperson because when you see someone that is successful in sales,
00:27:40
Speaker
What you don't realize is they've done a thousand sales calls and they have failed a thousand times and they have honed what is not going well and they've magnified what is. And what if actually one of the worst things, this is going to sound crazy, but one of the worst things you can be is yourself. Honestly, people are told like, Oh, be your natural, authentic self. And like the right people will come to you. But think about human nature for just a second. We are so selfish.
00:28:09
Speaker
We want to win. We want the attention. We want to be the one that looks really smart. We want to be the one that can hide if we need to. We're overly emotional. And being all those things naturally is not conductive to business. We're in a world where personality tests are like everything, right? And they're like, this is just who I am because this test said so. And while your personality is unique and so incredibly special,
00:28:35
Speaker
Your business is not about you. It can't be. It can't be. So everything natural has to be actually honed in and the right things need to be magnified. The best news about this is that you get to adapt. You get to become an amazing salesperson.
00:28:54
Speaker
First step is to change the way you think about selling because selling in itself isn't gross. It's how you're thinking about selling that's gross, right? Like we've talked about and what ends up happening is people avoid it. This is a perfect kind of segue into avoiding it because think about when you feel gross, okay? You haven't showered, you like roll out of bed and you're like, dang, I got to get the mail.
00:29:16
Speaker
You run out, you get it and you run back in. You're like, dear God, please don't let me see anybody. This is humiliating. You avoid, avoid, avoid. So the person who's like, I don't want to get on sales calls, I just want to email it. The fact that you're even considering that sales is gross is a huge red flag or that you're avoiding it in any case. There's something called the fear of falling where basically elderly people, the number one cause of death is actually for elderly people is side effects of falling.
00:29:44
Speaker
And so older people, they get really nervous about that. And so because they're scared of falling, they stay really still. And their muscles deteriorate, their bones deteriorate, which actually causes them to be more likely to fall and to not recover. So their fear is making them fall.
00:30:04
Speaker
Same with sales. Your fear of feeling gross is making you gross because you end up doing things like one-on-one time or 50% off. You better buy now. Price is going up. That is what's salesy. That is what's gross versus just actually selling and talking about it and handling the objections and answering the questions. That is what makes selling feel really good actually is to getting into conversation.
00:30:30
Speaker
I recently just did a master my call in our exclusive membership program and I have everybody send in their questions and then we talk about them. Every single question that they wrote was not actually what they were dealing with once I talked to them.
00:30:45
Speaker
Every one of them, there were like 10 layers deeper that we actually needed to address versus what they wrote. So when you're going through email, you're not even really probably addressing the real thing. And so if, Davey, you're telling me it's too expensive, it's too expensive, it's too expensive, but when I get on the call with you and I find that your wife, Krista, actually isn't bought in, if I keep handling the price objection but the real objection is your wife, I'm not even really moving the needle at all.
00:31:12
Speaker
So getting on the phone, getting on a call gives you so much practice to get to the root and actually handle what's going on to move the needle. Yeah, that's such a good point. I think that people just get worried that, okay, what am I going to even say on the call? What does that even look like? Could we speak to a sales call a little bit? Maybe some tips for conducting a sales call. If somebody walked away with just sort of like,
00:31:38
Speaker
one to three things today that they could implement on the phone. What would those things be, you think? So, gosh, there's so many things. It's hard to pick just a few. But honestly, the most important thing and to make this the easiest transition for you is to change your programming. And actually, I just was looking at our Slack channel with our students and someone said that the software in their brain is a guide method.
00:32:06
Speaker
and she's a doula and she's always kind of been like overly excited about birth and she talked to both the mom and the dad at the same time and the dad had no idea about anything about birth and so she was just kind of really really excited and then he's like what so then she learned the method she changed her programming and she was able to like filter what she needed to say and kind of channel her enthusiasm
00:32:27
Speaker
with the right words and the right tone. And people are just buying like crazy and also complimenting her on her ability to communicate to the dad who knows nothing, right? So to just have like a trick will absolutely be helpful, but it nothing compares to literally having a new software running in your brain at all times. I'll tell you one thing that that would be really huge. Okay, I'll tell you a few. Number one is sell yourself on yourself.
00:32:55
Speaker
If you don't believe, nobody else will. If there's any hesitation, if there's any question, if there's any uncertainty in you at all, it comes through. And I do not want to work with anyone who is unsure in themselves. I'm sure you're the same way, right, Davey? I think another good one would be turn I to you.
00:33:15
Speaker
Play a game with yourself and see like just being in conversation with a friend and see how, see if you cannot say the word I one time. Just try. People love to talk about themselves. They love it. And so your job as a salesperson is to let them and to encourage them to. We want to hear it all. The person who's talking is the one that's not in control.
00:33:40
Speaker
The person who has the information is the one that's in control. And so if you can get in this new mind frame of like, how can I make it all about them, not talk about myself one time, and just learn about them, be so fascinated and curious, that is a major trick that will change the game for you in life, but also in your calls.
00:34:00
Speaker
Yeah, one of the things that we try to do during our calls is ask a lot of questions in the beginning and really try to get as much information as possible because it will kind of dictate how we present our services.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And what's important here, and one of the things I see in our students when we're kind of taking them through our eight-week program, is their questions are not pointed in a direction. They can be a little general. And so you want to actually ask a few of the right questions, because being overly questioned doesn't really always feel that great for their body. It just depends. So knowing kind of your starting place and knowing where they are in the arc, do they believe that reputation is important?
00:34:40
Speaker
Do they believe that the branding can reflect the reputation? If they do believe that, if they're at the 40% or the 40 miles per hour, you might not go all the way back to zero. We might start a little bit higher to move them all the way. I hope that's making sense, but kind of knowing where you're at and knowing where they're at is going to be huge in your sales process.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah. Well, the last sort of myth that I want to ask about, and maybe I believe this a little bit about myself, right? I'm already making sales. I don't need to learn how to sell. It's like, well, I've kind of gotten by. And with that said, I don't want to say I've just like gotten by with nothing. I've read books and I've tried to
00:35:21
Speaker
I've tried to study other people who are good at this, but how would you address somebody who maybe is feeling that way? They already have business and things seem to be running all right. Why do they need maybe more of a formal sales method or why do they need this new operating system for a sales process?
Ongoing Sales and Client Relationships
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. So there's a huge difference between people buying and people buying in. There's a huge difference between selling a product and selling a belief. And we've talked a little bit about this, but the sales process is not just a transference of money. I'm sure you have people that could recur business to you, right, right, Davey?
00:36:01
Speaker
And there's people that actually need to implement what you tell them to do and to do it right like sales is happening throughout the entire process once we make that first sale that's just sale one sale two for us is like come prepared. Go all in don't question the process yet but stay focused.
00:36:20
Speaker
And then we want them to join and stay in the bubble over a period of time. And so your sales message them every single time you have a call with a client, you've got to be a salesperson and keep selling them on why this website matters because it is hard freaking work.
00:36:36
Speaker
to make your website beautiful on the client's end too. We got to do all the writing. We got to do all the like thinking you really implement. And so I got to put in some effort and you've got to sell me on why it's worth it when it's going to feel hard and I'm not going to want to do it. And a hundred other things are filling up my to do list. Davey comes in and sells me on this matters. Your business matters. Your clients matter enough for you to put your best and your all into this work.
00:37:05
Speaker
Awesome. Well, I'm actually signed up for your webinar later today. I'm excited. Awesome. Yeah, we do one every single week, Davey. Oh, awesome. I didn't realize that. I thought maybe you did it every month. No, do it every week. It's so fun just to have... It's really people that... It's actually only for people that bought our book.
00:37:23
Speaker
Okay, so we sell the book and then we say, hey, like, let's get into a class to really tease it out. We actually have gotten so many wins from the book that we knew we had to do an even more in depth version of the book, which is the masterclass. Yeah, awesome. Well, I'm excited to tune in later today to that. I'll make sure that I put a link in the show notes for anybody else who is interested. Where can people follow along if they want to learn more?
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, so we have our Instagram, which is the guide culture, but we also have a podcast called School of Sales. And I think that is probably the most valuable thing that you could follow is the podcast we do every week, at least sometimes more than once a week.
00:38:02
Speaker
Okay, awesome. Well, as always, people can find those links in the show notes. Macy, thank you so much for your time, especially with a nine-week-old. Yeah. We know how that goes and what that season looks like. We really appreciate it. And I'm looking forward to tuning in later to your webinar. And again, if you're listening and this interests you and you're thinking, you know, I really have to figure out the sales thing and you're ready to address it head on, make sure that you check out the show notes and we'll make sure all the links are in there. Thanks again, Macy. Perfect. Thanks, baby.
00:38:32
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Brands of Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and sharing this episode with others. For show notes and other resources, head on over to DavianKrista.com.