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Episode 12 - The Fall of Star Wars w/ Special Guest Jordan
43 Plays1 year ago
In this riveting episode of The Study Pipe Podcast, we're joined by close friend and ultimate Star Wars aficionado, Jordan, who boasts the distinction of having the first sequel trilogy tattoo known to mankind the moment The Force Awakens teaser trailer dropped. Together, we embark on an intergalactic debate that's as expansive as the Star Wars universe itself. With Jordan's unique blend of passion and inked dedication, we delve deep into the saga's journey under Disney's stewardship. From the soaring highs to the disappointing lows, we evaluate the impact of corporate oversight on the galaxy far, far away, discussing creative freedom, storytelling depth, and character development. We ponder the future: Can Star Wars reclaim its former glory, and if so, how?
But the force of our conversation extends beyond the realms of Star Wars. We transition into the dynamic world of anime, drawing parallels and contrasts in storytelling, character arcs, and fan engagement. With Jordan's insights and our passionate debate, this episode is a galactic voyage for anyone who's ever wielded a lightsaber in their dreams or felt their heart race at the crescendo of an anime opening. Join us as we explore the possibilities for course-correcting one of the most beloved franchises in history and discuss what Star Wars can learn from the boundless creativity of anime.
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Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
Oh.
Welcome Back & Introduction of JB Jordan
00:00:20
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the study pipe. It's only been about, I think, 11 years now since our last episode. Another 11. Another 11. No, seven years. Seven years a slave. Part two, the trilogy. We're going to do the trilogy. We'll be back. What are we doing, Andrew? Who are you with? We got a special guest for you guys today, our good friend JB Jordan.
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello, gentlemen. On the mic, it's a hot mic. It's real hot. It's going to get steamy. What are we going to talk about, Andrew? So we got some hard-hitting questions for our friend Jordan here today. I think you guys will like his answers. He's always got the best hot takes in the business.
00:01:11
Speaker
And so we're going to put them on the spot. We're going to put them in the hot seat. They're definitely hot takes most of the time. I don't know that they're the best hot takes. Usually half of them pissed me off. Rage bait more than anything. Yeah. Rage bait. That's a good way to put it.
00:01:30
Speaker
But I like all your Rage Bait hot takes because it invites discourse, disagreement. I think Andrew and I have been agreeing with each other too much recently in these episodes. So it'll be nice to get that Factor X in here. Bringing some discourse. What's your first question,
Daily Group Chats: Disney & Marvel
00:01:58
Speaker
Andrew? What do you got?
00:02:00
Speaker
I want to come in hot and immediately get this topic onto Disney and Marvel. We have a group chat going. We talk almost every day. One of the topics is- No, no, no. We don't talk every day. We bitch every day about pop culture. Constantly. I wake up in the morning. I got about 20 missed messages. It's usually about Pop Iger.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, and how great he's doing in his sequel run right now as CEO. So I guess a little background, Jordan. So you're a big Disney fan. And I know you just knowing you go to Disneyland a lot, you and your lady have always been big Disneyland fans. And you're always getting really hyped about different Disney media and the works, such as some getting Star Wars and things like that in the past.
00:02:56
Speaker
I've noticed that tone has kind of changed. So what's your opinion on the current state of Disney media in film right now?
Star Wars: Changing Enthusiasm & Director Struggles
00:03:04
Speaker
That's a loaded question. But yeah, you're right. As far as Disney goes, I've always been a really avid fan. I was a big defender of the Disney Star Wars acquisition. I thought it would be a great thing for the franchise. We all know how that went.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I started out thinking that as well. I remember, I think I was even saying this to you, Andrew, recently, maybe even the last episode or two, but I remember where I was at when it was announced that they were buying it. And I remember sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to be this old when the first one drops and when the trilogy completes. I was so full of hope at that time.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think we all were. We were super excited. Disney seemed like they were on a hot streak. They had Pixar going, they had Marvel going strong. What the fuck happened? I think the first mistake right out the gate is they had no plans on having the same director for the new trilogy. I think that was something that should have been enforced for the director to carry that torch all the way through.
00:04:17
Speaker
So I think kind of JJ setting that tone and then also kind of setting the tone for Ryan Johnson taking the reins, but kind of putting him in that creative box was a poor choice. Even though people love the last Jedi, I am not one of those people. Yeah. I wonder how many people actually love the Jedi right now. If you were to take a poll.
00:04:43
Speaker
I see a lot of rankings on social media, and it's usually in like people's top four, which shocks me because I'd rank that like really with attack of the clones. So I disagree. I love attack of the clones and I know you're a hater. Let's do a top three take right now. What if all nine? Yeah. Empire number one for me.
00:05:13
Speaker
Return of the Jedi and then Revenge of the Sith top three. Ooh, easy. Money, baby. I got to say, does this are we just focusing on Skywalker saga or is this the nine like entries? The nine. OK. Definitely Empire as the first. I think that's common for most people. I would go New Hope as my second. Jesus. And then Revenge of the Sith is the third.
Favorite Star Wars Movies Debate
00:05:44
Speaker
Alright, so we're we're kind of aligned pretty much right there. Just yeah, middle entry. What about you, Andrew? I'm gonna go The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, and Phantom of the Lost. No, bullshit. That's a bunch of bullshit. I'm gonna go, oh man, I'm gonna sound like a fucking broken record here. I'm gonna go Edpire, then I'm gonna go Revenge of the Sith, and then I'm gonna go The Last Jedi.
00:06:13
Speaker
Really? Why? Why? Because I love Ryan Johnson. But that can't be enough to place that above six other movies, can it? Well, no, I'm not a fan. So here's my logic, right? I'm going to pick one. I want to pick one. You want the stable boy to be the hero of the galaxy? Is that what you're telling me? It's all about love, man. That's why you can sacrifice yourself. Jesus Christ.
00:06:43
Speaker
No. Yeah, love stops, suicide bombers and terrorists is what I heard. Yeah, I guess mentally I wanted to give one movie out of each of the trilogy some representation. And so if you come from that angle, and I don't have to do that, I can easily just go New Hope, Empire, and, you know, Sith, and just call it a day. But if we had to pick one out of the three new movies, I definitely can't give it to
00:07:11
Speaker
The force awakens. That's just a rehash of a new hope. And I'm definitely not given the rise of Skywalker. So what about the last shot? I can. I can understand that. And like I said, a lot of people online last Jedi is usually in like their top three, top four. And I honestly, I have tried many times to see why that's the case. And I just haven't seen it, but I get it.
00:07:41
Speaker
I mean, don't you like I feel like Johnson just got such a shit under the stick here. He did. I I like fully believe that Ryan Johnson could have made a great movie. And I think he was trying to polish a fucking turd and did the best he could with it. I think ultimately that this was the producers and kind of the the puppeteers behind the scenes that really drove it into the ground.
00:08:12
Speaker
You know, I I'm going to disagree with both of you, not completely, but to some degree here that I think Brian Johnson is equally responsible as JJ Abrams. And the reason I believe that is that, you know, JJ first and foremost set up Force Awakens, as Andrew said, rehash of A New Hope. But he decided to kill
00:08:41
Speaker
Han Solo before reuniting the original three characters on screen together. And he isolates Luke in the story so that by the end, you know, there's Cliffhanger, Rey finds Luke, hands him the saber. Ryan Johnson chose to have Luke ditch the saber. That wasn't in the first movie. He had Luke from the very opening scene of his character picked up in the second entry of this trilogy.
00:09:08
Speaker
be the disillusioned hero. And I don't agree with that. I think he did not have to write Luke in.
00:09:17
Speaker
in that circumstance. He could have made Luke out there isolated for some other reason than being completely or having completely lost faith in his ability to contribute to holding back the First Order. We're talking about a guy who stared down, fought his father, decided to discard his own saber, refused to kill him.
00:09:42
Speaker
And now, what, 20, 30 years later, he's disillusioned by his nephew, who might be like his daddy, who he saved and redeemed. That wasn't Abrams who did that. That wasn't JJ. That was Ryan Johnson. And I love Ryan Johnson. I think he's a great storyteller, filmmaker, and all that. But he fucked up. He dropped the ball. Whether it's trying to be edgy or trying to make a good movie or whatever,
00:10:12
Speaker
there's nothing you could tell me to help me sit here and come to terms with or rationalize that he took that action. He started the movie in that way and further added added further fuel to the fire that JJ Abrams started. So I hold him equally responsible. And then JJ has two strikes against him because of his shitty handling of Ryan's
00:10:38
Speaker
You know, so it's not that Ryan is equally as bad over the course of the trilogy. It's that between the two of them in those first two, you had a third movie that was set up to completely fill. I mean, Ryan Johnson.
00:10:54
Speaker
He chose to have the second movie take place, what, moments after the first? What's that take? The whole span of the second movie is over, what, a day or two or a week? Maybe a week or two weeks, right? You know? And it's like you have Ray Palpatine, Skywalker, Solo, whatever the fuck her name is, running around god tier Jedi out of nowhere. It's just he.
00:11:24
Speaker
Ease to blame for all that. So that's my rant. I know that like last year, last year we were talking about Star Wars and I said, don't get me started there. It's on the record now. It is. It is out there. That is how I feel. But not to, you know, digress and get off track here. Jordan, you were saying that this was kind of strike one for Disney is how they handled this shit.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, it was definitely strike one and two to my credit so that anyone who's listening to this knows you may know me from somewhere. I was the first person.
00:12:05
Speaker
from what we know on the planet to get the first new trilogy Star Wars tattoo. I got BB and Omni. That is true. The day the trailer came out. I was so mad. Man, what a decision that has come to be. A lot of people compared me to Seth Rogen's character and fanboys. And we just got Jar Jar. He's like Jar Jar, he's going to be the shit. I am that guy.
00:12:34
Speaker
But do BBA turned out to be pretty dope. Yes, BBA was consistently a great character, which I'm happy about. OK, hold on, hold on, though. Add more context here. The first trailer, the teaser trailer where it opens with Finn in the in the desert, the down TIE fighter, that teaser dropped in what November right before the movie came out, I think it was only a month in advance of the movie. Yeah, something like that. Right.
00:13:00
Speaker
that dropped the whole internet's going wild and what that same day or the next day you were in the tattoo shop getting bb8s at his whole character tatted on you but you couldn't you had to get him in motion because there were no still shots of his character in the teaser exactly yeah there was no still shots there was no concept art nothing we just pretty much just won it and what did the best we could which i think it turned out great but
00:13:28
Speaker
Was the first trailer trailer or was it a feature? The feature at where they had JJ in the desert talking about filming Star Wars and they had BB-8 there. No, we're talking like the very first teaser, like cinematic teaser. Yeah. It was maybe like a minute long or something. It ends with Kylo igniting the, his lightsaber. And you see the first time the three blade.
00:13:51
Speaker
It was the character introduction trailer. I don't think there was even any dialogue, really. It was just introducing Finn, Rey, Kylo, and BB-8 as the new generation of characters.
00:14:05
Speaker
What the fuck did you do to Finn? Dude, it was the biggest Travis dude. And I think, oh man, I know if we stay on the Star Wars topic, we're never going to get off of it. That's how it goes,
Critique of Star Wars Sequels
00:14:21
Speaker
Ben. Just keep talking Star Wars. People love Star Wars. I think overall Disney though, I think we can all agree that the Star Wars ride under the Disney reigns has been
00:14:32
Speaker
wild to say the least because i think rogue one is some of the best star wars material we've ever gotten and we have shows like andor mandalorian it has a couple fumbles there for me but overall it's a great show it feels like star wars and then yeah we have the new trilogy and just a complete off the rails like stain on what was the skywalker saga
00:15:02
Speaker
So what would be your favorite of the new trilogy? Because I had to rank them. You guys already know it's an order. It's Force Awakens Last Jedi rise.
00:15:14
Speaker
I think for me, I like Rise the most. And it's so painful to even say that. From a plot standpoint, they compressed what could have been a whole trilogy into one film. And yeah, it's like someone who did their final paper the night before to do, right? Or they got to go into class the next day, stand up in front of everyone.
00:15:42
Speaker
you know, read it and it's like, oh yeah, okay, you know, it's complete, it's from start to finish, but shit, if you had more time to sit there and really think about this, could have done something real special maybe. So I say rise, but really it's because I'm, you know, like I have tattoos, I have so many tattoos, all my tattoos are villains, you know, or I have Star Wars tattoos, plenty of Star Wars tattoos, villains,
00:16:11
Speaker
I think rise gives me it scratches that itch of the dark side, the Sith, right? It opens with Kylo going on that hunt, you know, for the wayfinder and this kind of stuff. And it's very dark, even with Palpatine, you know, who I think is ridiculous that they brought him back. But even the whole kind of.
00:16:35
Speaker
Unknown regions, presence, very dark, ominous force gathering out there. It added a lot to the lore of the force. And I watched Star Wars first and foremost for the force and like the mysticism, the mythology of it, not the interpersonal relationships and dynamics. I think Jedi's and Sith's are badass lightsabers, the force. So it gave me that, whereas the first one was like, we're running around the whole time.
00:17:05
Speaker
You know, and then you find, you know, the in the second one, the end all be all Luke Skywalker, who doesn't want to have anything to do with the force. And so I didn't get that taste until the last movie. And I feel like I'm, you know, traumatized or something like my abusers, you know, like I'm a victim of my abuser. You're having to compliment him. But yeah, I'd pick rise.
00:17:33
Speaker
Alright, quick question. Wearing your top five lines of the whole Star Wars saga, does somehow Palpatine return? Rake. That's at the very last. Wait, hold on. What about you? You said Last Jedi, right? Is your favorite? Of the three? Yeah, it'd be the Last Jedi. Elaborate on that. Why? What about it? I think that the
00:18:02
Speaker
You know, I don't think that it landed exactly like what I was trying to do. But I think it was the most ambitious and trying to give Star Wars fans something like a new take on the Star Wars saga. And yeah, it got really, I mean, it fucked up Luke Skywalker's character. I get it. He's so out of practice that he worked himself to death one day. Like, it's not ideal.
00:18:27
Speaker
You know, it only took place over two weeks. It did introduce some interesting stuff about the lore, uh, the books on the Island, the force coast with Yoda brought in force coast lightning, which is pretty dope. And, uh, you know, for trying to be as ambitious as it was following up something as repetitive as the force awakens. I respect that attempt because the Star Wars fans are the most harsh while the fan basis.
00:18:55
Speaker
They're the Raiders fans of the movie industry. So you respect the intention, the attempt more than anything else, pretty much? Yeah, exactly. And I agree with you that he's half the blame. Because what's the one rule of improv that you're supposed to follow? It's yes and, right? You're not supposed to say no, it's this.
00:19:19
Speaker
So he was led into Luke Skywalker being a savior. And he's like, nope. Fuck that. Luke is actually completely distraught and no longer a Jedi and doesn't believe in the Force anymore. So much so that he's blocked himself off. And so he definitely, if they're trying to do some kind of creative mind blend thing where they're going to have his director hand off, I think he broke the first rule there by not honoring the movie that came before.
00:19:48
Speaker
So I agree with you guys there, but I'm not going to, but he did try to do something different and tried to do it very well. So I give him points there. And what about you, Jordan? Why the force awakens. I am a big creature of nostalgia. And that movie really played on that because I think they were self-aware that it was a rehash and played it too safe.
00:20:18
Speaker
And, uh, they, they got me with it, like just seeing the millennium Falcon and having Han Solo back and like Vader's helmet and everything. It just tattooed, you know, I, you have that exact scene. Yeah. Me too. We're the Kylo Ren boys, but yeah, man. Like.
00:20:44
Speaker
And I was really excited about, you know, we didn't know who was going to be the Jedi. So to say like, yeah, Ray and Finn were kind of playing off each other. And I thought we were going to get both and we did not. But when I think, when I think about the positives of going into that movie, what force awaken achieve for me is it made me feel like a kid. And I think that is a good experience.
00:21:13
Speaker
Like it really reminded me of watching new hope for the first time with my dad. And like, I just enjoyed the hell out of it. Yeah. I remember getting out of, you know, the theater and really being like.
00:21:29
Speaker
hell yeah, you know, and being down, being about it. It wasn't until The Last Jedi where I kind of soured on it. And initially I was, I think I'm a very forgiving and understanding person. So I think when I came out of The Last Jedi,
00:21:47
Speaker
I was like, okay, you know, it's not what I expected. You know, he killed Snoke, you know, kind of a huge turn. I thought, you know, that's a big bad and all this and even the Luke stuff, like, okay, well, maybe we'll tie it back or something some way, somehow. But it, you know, it was after, after it kind of sat for a while that it was like, you know, now I'm having, I'm afraid to say it, but like, am I even looking forward to, you know, the end of this trilogy?
00:22:15
Speaker
But I did. I enjoyed in between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. That was the ultimate hype machine ultimate. Probably the funnest time I ever had being a Star Wars fan. Right. I remember I remember the night we all went to go see The Last Jedi and due to whatever was going on, we all saw it separately. I know like you and Angel and Anna went and saw it. I went with Megan.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I remember us getting out of the theater and we texted each other and we're like, are we feeling what we think we're feeling?
The Last Jedi: Mixed Reactions & Speculations
00:22:52
Speaker
Are we feeling like let down? And it took a full day for me to accept that I do not like this movie or where this is going.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, I remember I knew something was weird or off. It just like a seismic shift when I came out of the theater and I turned to my dad and my dad was kind of like, nah, that wasn't it. And I'm like, damn, dude, like this is my dad. My dad got me on Star Wars, you know, he put me on the game. This is my dad, like.
00:23:27
Speaker
He's, you know, my family, my dad, even my aunts, uncles, my grandparents, everything. Growing up was like, hey, throwing the trilogy, put the kid in front of the TV and have him watch it. You know, that was like how to get me to shut up and pay attention, you know, get out of trouble. And everyone in my family, everyone knew, whether it be my grandfather, my grandpa, whoever,
00:23:53
Speaker
They knew everything about Star Wars. You know, it was something that I could immediately relate to and with, you know, all these older people in my family. You know, it was that common thread in the pop culture that brought us together. And so to sit here and like, you know, that's why I saw it with my dad. Like, I was like, hey, we got to see every one of these installments. You know, we saw the Force Awakens together by a Jedi.
00:24:19
Speaker
And coming out of The Last Jedi, when he was like, this isn't it, I was like, damn, this is different. This is a different feeling associated with, you know, my, however old I was at the time, 20 plus years of experience with this property, this, you know, world universe. Yeah, I remember that reaction and
00:24:49
Speaker
going back to the start of that comment. Because we were, we were all three different places. I saw my dad too. And my dad had the same reaction. He was like, that was kind of a small movie, wasn't it? And I mean, I guess that's a really good way to put it, right? Like, we're just thinking about like how expansive the Star Wars universe is. That was a very tidy film.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah. And like you guys said, it was, it was all in within like a day. And, oh, I wish I had the experience with my dad. You guys did. Cause I remember my dad took his sweet ass time going to go see it. Cause he always waits for theaters to die down.
00:25:29
Speaker
And I was biting my tongue. I didn't want to like set any like, I didn't want to put anything in his head and like, you know, try and rain on his parade and his excitement. I remember him coming out and I was like, so what do you think? He's like, Oh man, I loved it. It was like one of the best Star Wars movie I've seen. I was just like, Oh no, this is the man that raised me out of this. How could this be?
00:25:54
Speaker
But he I will say he has come around and he's like, yeah, I may have been a little too enthusiastic. But yeah, do like it's been it's it's crazy. I was even thinking when you were talking about Force Awakens just a bit ago, you mentioned Snoke. I completely forgot about him until you said that. Yeah, like that's how disjointed a lot of these movies. I don't even remember. I remember him. I was like, oh, shit, like they tapped Andy Serkis.
00:26:22
Speaker
for the big bad. And they did nothing with it. And I completely forgot about them. Yeah. Yeah, that was a very weird decision with Snoke. Yeah. That was actually kind of funny. Just every little plot thread that was actually started in The Force Awakens just got cut in half in the second film. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:50
Speaker
I mean, so there are two things that I wanted to kind of two directions. I want to go in with this Star Wars trilogy, you know, Star Wars under Disney ownership. One, whether we talk about it right now or come back to it is Trevor Rowe and what he could have done, you know, if they would have kept him on to finish the third film. And I read the script that he leaked or whoever leaked Duel of the Fates.
00:27:21
Speaker
The other is this idea, and whether you two support it or believe in it or what your initial reactions are, that maybe like James Bond
00:27:35
Speaker
They can sit here and retell the stories or use the characters of Luke and Han Solo and Leia and whoever and have different people play them and like respect the property in that way over the next however many years instead of continuously trying to expand it and add to the Lord, which they can do. But in terms of this time period that they seem so set on sitting in,
00:28:02
Speaker
You know, what, what, what's your reaction to that? Do you think that's possible? Is that something you'd be even interested in seeing or watching? Are you saying like, when you're saying Jason Bond, like continue to have those characters, but different actors filling that role and like, yeah, different, maybe different stories or like retellings, characters in their stories. Yeah. I think as.
00:28:30
Speaker
a Star Wars fan that has watched the movies, read the books, played the games. I think, call it blasphemy, if you will. I think the Skywalker story, for the most part, is not nearly as strong as the other stories that have been told. Of course, the relationship between Luke and Vader is iconic, and that itself and that relationship is great.
00:28:57
Speaker
But the stories you have with all the other Sith Lords like Nihilus and you have Revan, you have the High Republic that they're talking about now, and then you have the Old Republic, which is what I love. There's so much Star Wars out there that I think we just need to leave the Skywalkers behind. But in your question, I would much rather have had new stories
00:29:26
Speaker
of younger like Luke, Leia, and Han portrayed by different actors of what was going on between the new saga or the new trilogy and the old trilogy. Would that be like Sebastian Stan? I know that's like the popular fan casting as a young Luke Stalinger. Oh, yeah. That'd be great. I'd be down for that. What do you guys think about the James Mangold Old Republic movies that's in production?
00:29:54
Speaker
I hope it happens and I hope it moves forward. Are they still in pre-production or is it officially hit production? It's in pre-production. One second guys, Storm just blew my door open. I don't know. I would like retellings. I think I support the idea of a James Bond
00:30:20
Speaker
kind of reboot, relaunch from time to time. But I would be okay with them basically telling a story, filling in the time period between Return of the Jedi and the sequel trilogy with new people. Like they did the solo movie. They could do it in the TV shows. They could do it in installment movies, whatever the hell they want to do. I would be okay with them bringing in new people or whoever
00:30:52
Speaker
to tell us what Luke was up to. Let me see that first attempt at a Jedi Academy temple or something. Make him glorious at least a little bit before you destroy his character in the sequel trilogy. But that kind of just gets back to Jordan's point, though. We're spending too much goddamn time in this 40, 50, call it a 100-year time span.
00:31:20
Speaker
When the old Republic is out there, you know, all these other time periods that could really, I mean, maybe what Star Wars fans need is just some time away from like these original characters and the original, you know, property, if you will. So what do you guys think about the Mandalorian movie then?
00:31:47
Speaker
Big side. Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea, but it has good people behind it, so I will give it a chance. That actually leads me to a question I wanted to ask, which is, I think now the prequel movies, they're all beloved, but there was a long period of time where those movies had the same reputation as the new trilogy.
Reevaluation of Star Wars Prequels
00:32:13
Speaker
They were kind of laughed at, they were dogged on, the public wasn't a big fan. The Rise of, you know, the Revenge of the Sith kind of, you know, redeemed a little bit at the end there, but, you know, they were a joke in pop culture for a little bit. And I think a lot of the kind of regrading of that trilogy came from the Clone Wars TV show and building the lore around that show.
00:32:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah, bringing it back into public, you know, to the current spirit. Wait, have you seen? Listen, listen, listen, listen. It's not shaking his head, though. Listen, their first stuff.
00:33:01
Speaker
I know where you're going. Sorry to interrupt you, but I think you're right. I think that it fleshed it out, made the prequels a little bit more rich, better, and all that. But we have two different issues at hand right now. No matter what they did with those prequel films and all the other shit that they want to fill in, it all backs into an answer we all know, that Vader,
00:33:26
Speaker
Anakin falls, Vader rises, he's the big bad, there's the clash with his son, and our heroes win. We all know, even if they completely fuck it up, you know, AKA the Phantom Menace, where you're looking at boy toy Vader, right, running around and even Attack of the Clones, you can forgive all of that because you know where the story's going and you're happy with where the end is at.
00:33:56
Speaker
That is different with the sequel trilogy, in my opinion, because no matter what they do, every added layer of rich storytelling they put in there, you know it all amounts to nothing. That the people, the characters that you love the most, not all these new characters you may like that you're introduced to, they're not the main characters. The main characters are Luke, Rey, Ben Solo, Han Solo, Leia,
00:34:26
Speaker
and they all kind of end up in a pathetic fate, you know?
00:34:31
Speaker
So I think there's no amount of saving you can do because no one likes standing. Whereas with the prequels, yeah, you could dog on them and all that, but you still had Vader. You still had Yoda teaching Luke the ways of the force. You still had Luke besting his father in combat and saving the galaxy. There's no hope on the second, the back half of the astrology. So I think that's, for me,
00:34:58
Speaker
It's going to be incredibly difficult. It's like Game of Thrones, man. And fuck, that could be a whole hour rant, you know, and I don't want to bring Game of Thrones into this, but I. House of the Dragon, great show. I love it. I'm having a great time, but the Targaryens.
00:35:19
Speaker
Who are they a bunch of fools who fizzle the fuck out and amount to nothing? They're one true air fucks off to the north beyond
Future of Star Wars: Beyond Skywalker
00:35:28
Speaker
the wall. And that's what I'm saying. You can enjoy the ride, but nothing they do at this point will save me from knowing the true outcome of that story. And that's where I'm at with these secrets. Yeah. Yeah. And eight. Game of Thrones does tie into the Star Wars topic.
00:35:48
Speaker
because, uh, D and D and that whole fiasco. So we're still, I do a quick little side note. So hold on, Andrew. Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me say one thing real quick. I want to say that not watching it and talking shit say that they can't stick to ending for all those years turned
Comparisons to Game of Thrones & Fan Desires
00:36:11
Speaker
out to be one of the best early calls I've made.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, well, fuck off. I got on that boat five years early. I know. But not for the right reasons. You weren't on it for the right reasons. Still stuck to landing, maybe. You were on it just to be an ass. I know there's a moment where I was like, man, they might actually stick it. This is going to suck. There is a moment when
00:36:44
Speaker
I thought Game of Thrones was going to supersede and take the crown from the Lord of the Rings. It was that goddamn close. Yep. The Frodo decided to just leave the ring on the mountain and fuck off the door. Yeah, exactly.
00:37:02
Speaker
He went to go live with the urukai. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like to to go back to what you were saying about like movies with Skywalker and other actors portraying Luke. I think what everyone wants. And I don't want to speak for everyone, but like I think a general want of people that know Luke Skywalker and we never have gotten this on screen.
00:37:32
Speaker
And it pisses me off because we could have got it with The Last Jedi is books, any extended lore, the way the movies talk about it, even the books that are tied to the new trilogy. Luke is the most powerful force user to ever live. And that, so they say, and that's been confirmed by George Lucas. I know people will argue that there's other users out there like Plagueis or
00:37:59
Speaker
Yoda and all that stuff being the strongest. But it has been confirmed by the creator that Luke is the strongest Jedi to ever live in the history of Jedi's. And we have never seen an ounce of that power. It's never been explored cinematically. And I feel that if we had that kind of movie, it would be phenomenal.
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree, man. That's that's what I mean. Like you leave the original trilogy hero. He's so much promise, you know, potentially rebuilding, you know, the the order, the Jedi Order and all this stuff. And you don't see any of that. And then he pops up and he wants nothing to do with, you know, these gifts that he has in his father's legacy and then all this that he overcame.
00:38:45
Speaker
So, you know, if they want to appease the fandom, I think you start making those. You get a little taste of it in the Mandalorian, which was great, you know, right?
00:38:59
Speaker
But I think they could explore that. They could make movies there that take place in between. But it would be the House of the Dragon for me. It'd be something that's like, damn, this is really well done. This is awesome. But at the end, I know this guy fucks off to an island and dies. And he doesn't save the day.
00:39:22
Speaker
He doesn't do anything. I mean, he helps, I guess. Oh, spark, the spark of resistance or whatever the hell you want to call it. So I would watch it. It would kind of be a signal. I would take it as a signal or gesture from Disney that, hey, we fucked up. This is really the movies that you all should have gotten.
00:39:49
Speaker
But at the end of the day, I think for them to really revive Star Wars and the properties for them to leave all of this alone and go tell new stories in a huge universe that spans thousands of years. And they're just scared shitless to do it. And you know, fire Kathleen Kennedy, fire God, get rid of her. Is she the most hated person in this whole saga of Star Wars?
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah, she's at the top of my list. Yeah. So you actually give me one question. So what if at the end of The Last Jedi, if Luke Skywalker didn't die, it became one of the protagonists of the third film? How would that change? That recovers the whole trilogy for me. I mean, minus that we didn't get to see the original characters together.
00:40:40
Speaker
You know, that's still kind of a transgression, a sin for me. But if he came in, say she recruited him back and the motive or the reason that he was isolated was a little bit different, a little more plausible. He was in completely disillusioned, but he came back, protagonist and then, you know, helped solve what I mean, this is assuming Palpatine's not the villain either. Right. That that was
00:41:09
Speaker
A lot would have to be different about the third movie with him coming back, but it would be in a lot better shape, I'll tell you that. If he came back, if he did that whole force trick, and then he survived, and he was the main character in the third one, and he was back to his powerful self, that would have completely changed the whole trajectory of that trilogy. Yeah, 1,000%.
00:41:32
Speaker
I think there are three things that they could have done that would have made the trilogy phenomenal. Luke should have never died. The original gang should have reunited. Okay, four things. Luke didn't die. Han, Leia, and Luke all gotta have one reunion before shit hit the fan.
00:41:57
Speaker
And I think they should have continued to stick with Snoke as the big bad. And ultimately, I think what I can't get my mind off of is that they set the layup in Revenge of the Sith to make Snoke Plagueis. Because Sidious tells Anakin about his master Plagueis and all the stuff that he was trying to do.
00:42:25
Speaker
and like save his loved ones and whatnot, like to see what is considered the strongest Sith and the strongest Jedi to like an unstoppable force and an immovable object go head to head would have been insane. Yeah. And we didn't get that. Yeah, I think kind of building off of what Jordan's saying here, if you made it that it's revealed that Snoke has played this kind of going into the third film, you set up
00:42:55
Speaker
this requirement that you need Luke and Rey and recruitment of, you know, scallywag, padawans,
Potential Improvements for Star Wars Trilogy
00:43:04
Speaker
if you will, to really take down this new big threat, right? And it doesn't disrespect Vader's, you know, sacrifice. It doesn't throw all that out the window.
00:43:18
Speaker
If anything, what it does is that the galaxy, the force was in balance in the galaxy, but Plagueis was hiding out in another galaxy in the unknown regions. So you can still kind of make this argument that
00:43:32
Speaker
What Vader did was, and Luke, is they handled the known galaxy and the problems there eliminating Palpatine and all this. But there are these secrets of the force that even Palpatine wasn't aware of, right? And Plagueis comes in from the unknown regions.
00:43:55
Speaker
as, you know, turn Kylo and all this like he did. And Luke has finally recruited back into the fold to then work with Ray, you know, to handle this, to, to put him down. And then, you know, by the end of it, he says, Hey, you know, I'm an old timer now. And really.
00:44:17
Speaker
You know, I'm going to work with you on rebuilding the order together, you know, or like passing the torch to you. And the trilogy ends with passing the torch to her. And then she can go set up her three new movies later on or whatever, you know, or even like installments, little, you know, movie here, movie there about Ray running around doing whatever. But Luke.
00:44:39
Speaker
Doesn't die as short and said He's there to shepherd in and to teach You know what he knows and all of his power Nice It it hurts me and it's crazy because there's fans out there that you're like, no, that's stupid it was perfect the way it was it's like You weren't paying attention to the signs, baby
00:45:05
Speaker
Like Snoke had that black Kyber crystal ring. The fuck was that about? And then like, Oh my gosh, Ray being a Palpatine felt like such a smack in the face. Yeah. That like. It disrespects Vader's legacy. And Luke, like, you know, there's this new Palpatine that's changing the balance of the force and Luke is just like,
00:45:31
Speaker
And again, like going to what Andrew was saying with how the Clone Wars show really fixed a lot of things. They, the directors had so many perfect setups for Plagueis and Luke's like power and Rey being a Kenobi.
00:45:55
Speaker
Obi-Wan had a love interest they could have totally played into that and he did have you know a child which would be great because he's such a Straight cut by the books Jedi that had this baby out of like a fling on the side and what was a tragic relationship like
00:46:17
Speaker
There was so much there and I just feel like get a taste of that Ned Stark, you know, right? That kind of character arc. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like if Filoni was always there, we could have had something like that. Because things didn't start looking up until Filoni showed up. Yeah, that's it. Filoni is definitely going to try and and fill in the backstory. You can see it with the Mandalorian. You can see that they had to get the cloning.
00:46:47
Speaker
you got Grogu, looks like he's being primed to become some kind of biological weapon for cloning with the Force. And so I mean, I guess, man, because I'm personally, I'm split between the Clone Wars and the backstory kind of also bringing the prequels back into prominence. And also that the new trilogy was so bad that everyone looked back at the prequels and they're like, you know what, I think we were
00:47:15
Speaker
We weren't as kind to them as we should have been. Look at the new stuff. I feel like if the prequels came out in this social climate, they would have got just absolutely cooked, spit roasted, put on a pike to display its corpse for everyone to fucking throw stones at.
00:47:35
Speaker
But oh, geez, never gave up hope. I love that shit as a kid. I love as an adult.
High Republic Era & Nostalgia in Hollywood
00:47:41
Speaker
I'm not a big clone. Like Attack of the Clones guy. Zach knows that very well. But like I've always had the prequels. I've never thought anything bad of them. I thought Jar Jar was annoying, but like not to the point where people should be bullying that dude to consider ending his own life.
00:48:00
Speaker
And I, that's one thing that another thing that Filoni did and that's like his, he's all about like the redemption stuff is he made the guy who plays Jar Jar, one of the Jedi that saved Grogu during Order 66. Yeah, that was cool. And like that, that absolutely like completely changed things for not only him personally, but like as a character in Star Wars to have that legacy now. Anything's possible.
00:48:30
Speaker
Yeah, Kevin Durant. Yeah, I think I think Filoni is trying. I think he's he's doing it for the right reasons. He loves property. He is a fan like all of us, you know, he grew up with it. He wants to do right. Right. I just I don't know. I think most days I just think it's beyond saving if they stay in this goddamn timeline. They just need to go make other things.
00:49:00
Speaker
Yeah. Well, what is it now? They're going into their like next big thing is the high Republic, which I know nothing about. Yeah. I don't know enough. I'm just not interested. You know, I want to see old Republic. I need to be far removed from this.
00:49:21
Speaker
time period. I need to wash the dirty taste out of my mouth. And to do that, I need at least a thousand years away. Yeah, I think the High Republic is 100 to 500 years previous, right? And the Old Republic is 25,000 to 1,000 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. James Van Gogh could possibly have a film that's up to 25,000 years old.
00:49:46
Speaker
Oh man, Gold. Look at what he did to Indy. You liked Indy, didn't you, Zach? Yeah, I mean, I liked it. I liked it. But I guess I would qualify that as like, I was happy to be back, you know what I mean? I was happy to be there with a character. I don't think like he disrespected the character or anything like that, but
00:50:16
Speaker
You take something that costs, what, $300 million to make, and you don't even make that back at the box office. And what's that say about what they did with the story and the marketing and all that to gather interest in people to go see this beloved character? And so my thing is, if he's handling the Old Republic, is this the same kind of strategic thinking in the development of that movie, the way it's advertised, the way
00:50:46
Speaker
They're driving the plot. It's a fine movie. It's a fine swashbuckling adventure film, I thought. But was it necessary? I think that's the bigger crime, right? It's not that he fumbled the bag and that the movie sucked. It's that at the end of the day, as an audience member, a lover of film,
00:51:13
Speaker
Is this something that I need to see? Is this something that's going to move me? Is this something that I should get up? You know, I work. I have a job, you know, full time. Should I spend my hard earned cash to go and see this story? Is this something that should be told? And when it's not and you're trying to convince me that it is, that's the ultimate kind of insult to the audience. So that's kind of I don't know if that long ass rambling rant makes sense.
00:51:43
Speaker
But that's where I fall on on Indy. And, you know, if these people are involved with launching the Old Republic, are you doing it because you're cashing checks for Disney or are you doing it because there's a good story in that time period to be told something that you are trying to move me with? I think go ahead. No, you're good, Angie. You go. I was going to say it's a really good point. That's that's exactly how I felt about watching the whole new Indiana Jones movie is that
00:52:13
Speaker
It's cool to see Indy, but I didn't feel like I needed to see that movie at any point. There's nothing that I felt really insulted by. And it was kind of cool to see the whole story about his son being dying in Vietnam. I don't think we talked about that in the podcast, but we talked about it in person later. So it was nice to get some kind of closure on that instead of just ignoring that plot line from the previous film.
00:52:41
Speaker
But at no point since I've seen that movie, does it really register in my head that that's even part of the Indiana Joe saga? Right. I think that's kind of Hollywood's big issue right now. And you guys, you know that I'm always saying like Hollywood's creatively bankrupt and whatnot is a lot of these things feel like nostalgia grabs, like I was saying with Force Awakens.
00:53:06
Speaker
is, hey, this character hasn't been revisited in a long time. People love them. Let's have them go through another little romp. And I feel like they get comfortable knowing that, oh, just this character will drive people to the box office. And it's like, no, you guys have wronged us so many times that people are starting to catch on that these are cash grabs and not a heartfelt
00:53:34
Speaker
like understanding and appreciation of the material. I think the biggest, Zach will love this one. I know Andrew definitely will. The biggest thing that I've noticed when it comes to like new stories and adaptations and whatnot,
00:53:50
Speaker
If you look at One Piece, the Netflix live action, is Zach shaking his head. The One Piece live action has brought in so many new fans. And I truly believe if you watch the behind the scenes and the featurettes of the making of the anime, the director is an avid fan, like knows everything, has watched it. You can just see the excitement in him and bringing this world to life. And you can tell the responsibility he has.
00:54:20
Speaker
where a lot of these other directors, go on Andrew. No, I'm agreed with you. I'm over in the background just like, yeah, I agree. I knew you were going to be excited. And yeah, like one piece, it was a huge success and they're already getting ready to tell more stories and they're going to continue working with that director because of how great it was. And a big example right now is like,
00:54:43
Speaker
Avatar has a ton of flat coming their way because they took the like misogynist kind of teenage goofiness out of Sora and they're making him like a very serious character where that entire thing about him was his character development to learn like my outlook on people and like women and situations is wrong and I need to grow as a person
Success of One Piece & Avatar Adaptation Concerns
00:55:12
Speaker
And then they also talked about, we don't want to do any of like Aang's adventures because that doesn't add anything to the story, which it absolutely does. It shows Aang as a person and who he is and what he cares about. And like, I feel like those two examples are the exact spots where we're in.
00:55:33
Speaker
in Hollywood and entertainment is that you have these directors who truly love what they're doing with the material and cash grabs, which I think is the standard thing with movies like Indiana Jones, bringing back Star Wars, all that stuff. Yeah, there's got to be passion behind it. That's the number one way to just make your show dead on arrival, isn't it, too?
00:55:56
Speaker
to come in and just totally have a misunderstanding of how a character's growth is and assume that it's what's because the character is behind the times when all it does is really show that you never watched that character's complete arc. Yeah, it's like you you you just revealed your hand that you never took the time to learn and watch this like you just assume that yeah, it was it was a thing that it's time and now we have to step away from that when no that was like the whole point.
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah, and what makes The Last Airbender one of the best shows I've ever seen. And it's funny because I watched it. I didn't watch it growing up when it came out. I watched it all. I binged it all in over the course of like a month or two when I was in college. I had some friends who were like, hey, have you ever watched this? And I was like, no, man.
00:56:53
Speaker
Never got into that fake anime. And I was hating. And they were like, no, no, it's good. And so I said, OK, let me sit here and sit down and watch it. And it's three seasons, right? And that's the best character development I've ever seen in a show. I mean, up there.
00:57:16
Speaker
Because you start with these characters, right? You have Aang, you know, you have Katara, Sokka, all these characters who are kids, really. I mean, they're
00:57:31
Speaker
They're not responsible adults to begin with in this story, and they're thrust into a huge conflict much bigger than their tribes and themselves. And over the course of the three seasons, they completely develop, you know, their arcs are full and they're large, you know, they're complete arcs.
00:57:51
Speaker
all of the characters and even the villains have arcs that, you know, like Zuko, he starts as, you know, quote unquote, the big bad. But by the end, he's a close ally, trust a friend and someone that like I care about as a character by the end of that show. And that's why it's amazing. You know, that's why that show is amazing. And as the fan base that as to this day,
00:58:18
Speaker
So I know they're doing a live action and all that, but I've kind of stayed away from reading about it because Avatar has a special place for me, you know, in terms of some of my favorite stories and properties or whatever the hell you want to call it.
00:58:37
Speaker
But that's sad to hear, man. I don't know all that. That's sad to hear because, yeah, I mean, you got to start the characters. You have to respect them. You have to start them. You know, meet them where they're at and you watch their journey. You watch them make mistakes. You watch them do things that you wouldn't do that you think are silly or you don't think are right. But that's the whole point of growth and change is you get to see them realize their mistakes and make changes.
00:59:06
Speaker
and be the hero, be the character that you kind of believe they can be, you know, reach their full potential. If they strip that out of the story, you know, it's game over. Yeah, that's essentially like bringing in Ray and just having to be overpowered with no character growth from the start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got to see that, right? Look at how that turned out.
00:59:34
Speaker
You know, an hour, an hour of of what that does is it creates an hour of bitching and moaning by three grown men. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I started with one question about Star Wars. And here we are an hour later. That's how it is, man. Star Wars is a hot topic. And like Zach was saying, the Game of Thrones thing, that could be an entire podcast series that has. Yeah.
01:00:03
Speaker
so much behind it. Oh my god. But you know, what we need to do, and not during this one, because I probably getting towards the end here. But what I think would be great is to reconvene. And I want to talk it's always sunny in Philadelphia.
It's Always Sunny: Cultural Impact & Viewing Challenge
01:00:21
Speaker
I want to dive into it's always sunny.
01:00:24
Speaker
I really do. I don't know how or what, I mean, maybe just ranting about what that show means to me, what, what kind of itch it scratches and, and all of that. I mean, I'd love to talk about the time that I went to the premiere, you know, kind of flesh that out and how that made me feel, you know, meeting Danny DeVito and all that. That was cool. But that, that show, I mean, running for what 15 seasons now, whatever the hell it is, I would love to dive into that.
01:00:55
Speaker
Next week, the gig tackles. It's always sunny in Philadelphia. That'd be fun because I haven't really watched that much of it. I've watched like 10 episodes. It's so good. It's my favorite TV show of all time. All categories, all genres considered. It is my favorite of all time. You've seen it already, Jordan. I am a few seasons behind. I watch it sporadically because you guys know how I've gotten with TV and movies.
01:01:25
Speaker
But I've watched most of it, and I'm completely with Zach. Futurama has always been my number one kind of television. But I think always, Sunny, I have accepted that that has taken the number one crown for me.
01:01:40
Speaker
It's just consistent writing and the characters are so great. And it's the one, it's the one thing, one of the few things that I feel that hasn't bent the knee to the social shift of Hollywood and all that stuff. And I just love that whole cast. Yeah. Amen. That's great because it really had to be the show that drew the line, right? Because I mean, just from what I've seen, it's,
01:02:07
Speaker
It's pushing the limits on what's acceptable, put on television at all points. So as soon as it gives up the line, I feel like the whole, the whole side falls apart. They're fighting a good fight, man. They really are. They're fighting a good fight. And, uh, yeah, maybe what, what, what we have to do is you have to crank through some episodes. I mean, they're only like 23 minutes long or whatever.
01:02:33
Speaker
You can marathon a couple of seasons and get a real taste of the characters. And then we could jump back in here and just kind of go over, go over them, you know. Television as a homework assignment. I don't know about that. Yeah. I mean, you watched, what, five years of One Piece within a couple of months. Twenty years. Twenty years. I think you could do it.
01:03:01
Speaker
And speaking of, I still need to watch the show on Netflix and I will. I will. I'll watch it. Well, why don't we make a trend here? I'll do it's always studied Philadelphia. The whole catalog. If you watch season one of One Piece. I'll make that that deal. I'll make that deal. That's a good deal. Well, shake that. That's a good deal. I'll do you I'll do you one better. Okay. If
01:03:30
Speaker
This isn't watched by me or by you, whatever. If we haven't completed this homework assignment by the time we record the next episode, or maybe it has to happen within the next two to three episodes, we'll give it a month, two months. If it doesn't happen, you got to watch Shitty Trilogy.
01:03:54
Speaker
And we still got to tally up our scores from last year on the film. We get to pick. We get to pick what the other has to watch. And then dodge it. Movies. If I watch all, was it 15 seasons of, how many seasons of it since Sunday in Philadelphia? I think it's something like that, 15. Yeah, 15. If I watch all of that show and you don't watch season one of Live Action One Piece, you have to watch all of One Piece, the anime.
01:04:22
Speaker
So I'll go watch that tonight. I do not want to watch the anime ever. Maybe when they reboot it. Just to raise the stakes here. Yeah, I'll go finish it. I know what I'm doing for the next week. Yeah, aren't they going to redo the anime though? I'll watch it when they do the redo.
01:04:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think 2025, right? Yeah, I believe it's next year. It's being done by Studio Wit, who did most of the seasons of Attack on Titan, which is one of the best animes out there. And it's, I think they're going to try and keep it, the rumor mills, they're going to try and keep it to like 300 episodes, like three to 500. I think they're just going to try and cut it in half and really focus on like what's important.
01:05:17
Speaker
So I think that'll be a great jumping on point, and I think they're doing that because the thousand plus episodes is such a daunting thing. Yeah, it's too big of an ask, man. Yeah, they want people to be able to start new and follow it. Yeah. I think I had a midlife crisis around episode 350. Andrew before One Piece and Andrew after One Piece are two different answers.
01:05:43
Speaker
That's true. It changed me. I missed when he would sit there and just shit on it with me for no reason. And now he's sitting here shitting on me and I watching it and I just feel alone and sad and scared. He read the, he read the gospel. He knows now. Have you heard about our Lord and savior, the one piece? Does the one piece exist? Is it even real? It is. It's been confirmed.
01:06:14
Speaker
the one pieces of friends you make along the way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So let's conclude this with JB. What's top five anime all time
Anime Favorites: Hosts' Top Five
01:06:30
Speaker
right now? Top five. Top five anime all time on the spot. On the spot. You can't even think about it. Just start rattling five. Holy shit. You dropped off on an island.
01:06:43
Speaker
We thought a lot from his brotherhood. Attack on Titan, one piece. Son of a bitch. I would put out banana fish. I feel like not a lot of people have heard about that one, but banana fish is great. What's that for? Mm-hmm. And five would be Jujutsu Kaisen. I think of this. Okay, Andrew, top five, top five.
01:07:08
Speaker
Uh, I'm gonna go full metal alchemist cowboy bebop one piece monster and hunter hunter. Very good. And, uh, like Dave Chappelle said, with Dylon, Dylon, Dylon, I'm gonna go dragon ball Z, dragon ball Z, dragon ball Z, all five baby. I'm kind of ashamed. Where's me and you? Where's one punch man?
01:07:36
Speaker
Oh, honestly, yeah, I love One Punch Man. I'd put it up there in my model top five. I'd put it up there. But frankly, I don't feel like I've seen enough anime to even put together a top five kind of out of respect. You know what I mean? Like respect for the game. Like I don't think I can do that.
01:07:56
Speaker
I just like it as, you know, clown. And then you've seen what you've seen. But even if I've been dropped off on the island, I am changing my top five. I keep all of them except banana fish and replace it with one punch man. I can't sleep tonight if I don't change that. I definitely would do Mob Psycho and one punch man in my top five with Dragon Ball Z. Yeah. Mob Psycho was close. What about what about Neon Genesis, Jordan?
01:08:24
Speaker
I love Neon Genesis, but it is so weird and crazy that I have to be in the mood for it.
01:08:34
Speaker
But I am very sad that I also didn't think a cowboy bebop and you put it in which I'm glad you did because I saw your face when he said it. I was. I was. And there's there's so many like Trigon like Dragon Balls and I we're going to get way off topic. We keep this up two hours later. Right now, I think what this means is is
01:09:02
Speaker
We need an episode on anime. Not only that, I think it'd be interesting to hear you guys...
01:09:10
Speaker
kind of battle it out and recommend to me where I should focus my attention to get kind of caught up with these like the pantheon of series. Right. Because, you know, you guys have seen a lot more than I have. And I'm always here like analysis paralysis, like, what should I watch? What anime should I dive in? It'd be interesting to hear, you know, a good like 45, 60 minute
01:09:39
Speaker
kind of session between the two of you hashing out like now these are the three that you need to go and watch son go forward and prosper boy i don't know if it'd be a hash i feel like andrew and i align pretty close when it comes to anime but it would be interesting to see
01:09:58
Speaker
I don't think there's a lot of areas that we actually disagree. I'm sure Jujutsu Kaisen would be in my top two. I just haven't finished it yet. Oh my god. You have to take that with a grain of salt for me because I'm caught up in the manga and I know what's coming. What I've seen of the latest arc was just so phenomenal that I know it's going to keep that quality. I truly think by the end of Jujutsu Kaisen, it will be
01:10:26
Speaker
It already is one of the big three, but I think it'll cement itself as one of the greatest shonen anime ever animated. Damn. It's truly incredible. Say swear right now. Swear right now. I watched that's when he eats the fingers and he's all crazy and whatnot. Yeah, I watched like, I think the first season or the first
01:10:53
Speaker
I got pretty deep in it. I liked it a lot. I just lost momentum. You guys know I'm notoriously bad at watching TV shows. Like long run format, just for some reason in my old age, I've lost my ability to sit down and do it. I don't know why. I mean, movies, I kill movies every night.
01:11:17
Speaker
Every night, you know, it's just it's it's crazy. But I did. I did like it from what I saw. Yeah, it's great. And I'm the same way. Like it's really hard even watching anime. I haven't even finished Attack on Titan, the anime, because I read the manga and it's just such a quicker way to consume that story that like I'm able to do it. That's what I did with Super Dragon Ball Super. Yeah, I remember you got down on that hard
01:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, I've read through all that, and I never saw the actual show. So people would be like, oh, Jiren and Goku did this or this scene, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, yeah, in the manga, it's a little bit different, you know, like there are subtle differences. But yeah, it's easier for me to read the manga. But that's the other thing, too, is like I'll sit here and I'm like, all right, what manga should I jump into? And
01:12:14
Speaker
There's just too many. I'm like, I don't know where the hell I should focus my attention. They're truly a gentleman. Gentlemen, I've made a horrible mistake. Tell my top five naming the greatest anime of all time, the father, son and the Holy Spirit.
01:12:33
Speaker
Doro. He Doro. Tell me why. Know it. It is one of the coolest premises I have ever come across in just stories. And it is so phenomenal. Every character like every character is likable, whether they're a piece of shit or not. And what's it about? So this is where it gets crazy and I'll try and keep it short.
01:13:03
Speaker
These people, humans, live in this place called the whole. It's like this dimension that was created by wizards.
01:13:11
Speaker
And they take humans and they put them in there and it's like this city, really scummy. People just like get by a ton of violence and stuff. And wizards, they'll go to this hole and they'll go and experiment their magic on people, like turn them into like just abominations or like do crazy stuff to them.
01:13:34
Speaker
And the main character, he is turned into this giant lizard man, and his name is Kyman. And he has amnesia. He can't remember who he is, what he was before he was turned into this lizard. And he is hunting down every wizard he comes across to find out who did this to him so that he can reverse it. And it eventually leads to him getting out of the hole and into the wizarding world.
01:14:01
Speaker
And it just total chaos after that and like him tracking these people down. And in order for him to interrogate people, he has to put their head in his mouth. And this like other personification of him comes out and like looks at him and sees if it's them or not. And it just tells them that's not him. So it's this total just mind fuck magic. Think of like Harry Potter.
01:14:28
Speaker
but with the like total scummy, dark, like dank vibe of Fight Club. Really? Yes. Maybe that's what I should read. That sounds right up my alley. I love Fight Club and I love Harry Potter. I never thought about those two together. Neither did I.
01:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's like Fight Club, Harry Potter, and Requiem for a Dream. I am Jax. I am Jax, complete surprise. It's phenomenal, and I just keep forgetting about it because Netflix is dragging their ass, but we finally got a season two announcement for next year.
01:15:12
Speaker
So wait, wait, there's a manga or is it just anime or what? There's a manga. The manga is complete. And then we had season one during the pandemic and they haven't done anything with it. But they just confirmed, like, I think two weeks ago that season two is in full production. Is it on Netflix? Yep, it's a Netflix exclusive. Oh, maybe I should put that on before I go to bed tonight. It is fantastic.
01:15:41
Speaker
Sounds like a good idea. That may have to be it. Ask Angel. Angel loves Dorohedoro. Ooh. He'll fill you in. Damn. Okay, I think we're leaving folks with a lot to think about on the anime front. Plenty. It was a way more pleasant conversation when we got to the anime. Right? There's all this promise and hope and love and passion. You know, it's like a safe space.
01:16:10
Speaker
Whereas the front end of this, it's just Bob Iger's dick. That's it. That motherfucker better be thankful we didn't even get on his ass. I know we let him slide. We just focused in on how shitty Star Wars is. No, we got to come back to Kennedy and Iger and the fall of Disney, which is, I think,
01:16:36
Speaker
what Andrew was getting at. So this is the fall of Star Wars. I think next step is the fall of Disney. Oh, yeah. And then the rise of Universal. Epic universe. Yeah. I think I think that's all we got, right, Andrew? Yeah, that's a that's a wrap. That's that's one pipe smoked by each of us. It was fond voice pipe.
01:17:18
Speaker
you